What We Post Here
When did America switch from working for reward to working to avoid punishment?
by ahansen
The meat department at Vons hadn’t put the proper bar coding on the goose I had ordered, so the clerk and I had a five-minute wait while the frozen beast was properly inventoried and returned to the check-out stand. The store was eerily devoid of shoppers for a Friday afternoon—especially one before a major party weekend like Halloween. But it was the end of the month, and the town is mostly inhabited by retired civil servants and other people who receive a government check for a living, so I wasn’t all that perplexed by the lack of activity. The one lady in line behind me was cheery and chatty; we didn’t mind the wait, using the time to remark on what we were planting in our winter gardens.
What did catch my attention, however, was the checker’s agitation. He kept glancing first at his watch, then to the back of the store, then up the stairs to the manager’s office. Since my fellow shopper and I weren’t at all hurried, and the store was basically empty of customers, I asked what had him so concerned.
“This is really going to screw with my production numbers,” he said nervously. “They keep track of how fast we process customers through the line, and tally us up at the end of the month. This isn’t going to look good for me at all.”
He continued, “It would be different if we got a reward, or a raise or something for having faster check-throughs, but we don’t. Their machines rule by intimidation.”
I mentioned that surely “corporate” would take into account the fact that business might be cyclical in a small resort town full of seasonal workers and welfare recipients—especially at the end of the month when the summer tourist season is over. But, “No,” he told me. “It’s just more insanity for us to deal with. They pit us against each other and their waiting list of people who don’t mind working part-time. It works.”
In the last year or so, I’ve wondered why there was such turn-over in the store’s long-time employees, many of whom I’ve known by name after years of shopping there. I can’t imagine they’ve all left voluntarily during a period of such economic uncertainty. Lately it seems that every time I go into a familiar market, an entirely new group of people is working there. Now I am beginning to understand why.
When I got home, a rambling, rather plaintive telephone message awaited on my answering machine. A dear friend, now four years from retirement at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, was recently downsized from the Mars project, and because he’s been identified as a “national asset” was given a consolation position working part time in another related division. Supposedly a 20-hour-a-week slot, he’s slowly driving himself even crazier trying to keep from losing this job too.
He estimates he puts in 60-70 hours a week on lab, often sleeping there in his cubicle or in his car in the parking lot. The poor guy has accumulated literally months of vacation time over the years, but he’s afraid to take any of it for fear that while he’s gone they’ll bring in someone who has been waiting in the wings for a spot on the project. With two kids in college, a cruddy little apartment to call home, and no 401(k) left to speak of, he’s essentially trapped in a job he hates. In what, to my mind, is a sure-fire losing proposition, he’s been trying to keep his sanity by proving Goldbach’s Conjecture in hopes of claiming the monetary prize that would salvage his retirement.
Even my longtime housekeeper—the kind of gem the organizationally-challenged would kill for—is frazzled and worried, as more and more of her clients reluctantly cut back or cancel their contracts due to budget constraints. She finds herself working longer hours at a faster pace just to keep the customers she does have from making the same decision.
With so many of us in danger of becoming unemployed, those who are left increasingly labor under a cloud of threat and intimidation—whether real or implied. Where we used to be motivated by raises, bonuses, options and promotions, our great motivator is now fear. And it’s not just fear of losing a source of income. For those who define themselves by their jobs, the loss of identity is often just as traumatic as the loss of a paycheck. Losing one’s sense of community—waking up one morning to the realization that the comforting familiarity of camaraderie and routine is gone—can be as debilitating a shock to the system as realizing one has just joined the ranks of the impoverished.
As Joni Mitchell once wrote, “…you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone….”
Which leads me to my point.
For five years, Ben Jones has, largely through his own tireless efforts and on his own dime, kept this blog online as a real-time archive of our thoughts on what has turned into a global fiasco. Years from now, historians will surely study what’s been written here about these events as they have unfolded, and perhaps will be wise enough to glean from them how to avoid repeating the blunders we’ve made.
Ridiculed and excoriated, even after his prescience has proved correct, Ben has plugged ahead with his chronicle, day after day, week after week, month after month—a latter-day Samuel Pepys recording a daily journal of his own plague years.
As SanDiego RE Bear so eloquently discussed last week, *Comment by San Diego RE Bear 2009-10-29 13:54:26 , HBB is home to a diverse, often impassioned community of contributors who really care about what happens to our Country and its institutions. The forum we have created and fostered here is unique on the internets, both in the caliber of its discourse and the civility in which it is presented.
Our words are read by people whose actions and decisions affect the daily lives of millions of folks around the world. What we post here matters.*
SO SEND THE HBB A BUCK A WEEK.
Surely you get 25 cents worth of enjoyment out of reading through the comments sections at the end of each digest? How many times a year have you come to HBB for information, or entertainment, or just the diversion of a good read? And if you want to see how often you’ve found a safe place to vent your spleen, where people actually take the time to consider what you have to say then give you honest feedback, go to lavi’s site, http://www.inksex.com/ and check out the number of comments you’ve posted to the blog since you joined.
How much have you saved on therapists, real estate attorneys, and unhealthy hobbies since you started reading HBB? More to the point, how much have you saved by NOT buying that overpriced piece of real estate you thought you just had to have; the one that everyone was nagging you to go out on a limb for?
Stop gloating and send in 1% of the money this blog has saved you.
For all of us Cassandras and haters, trolls and curmudgeons, having a place to post our crackpot observations has got to count for something. Where else can we say “I told you so” over and over everyday without someone finally smacking us in the kisser and calling the authorities? If that’s not worth a few bucks, I don’t know what is. HBB is a sanctuary for our collective angst. If the site goes away, you’ll probably want to choke something. Think of the legal fees. Think of the horrible doctor/vet bills you’ll incur. Think of the children— and dig deep, brothers and sisters, for the Good Work.
We may wake up one morning, look out at a beautiful day, put the coffee on to brew, pull up the puter, click on HBB and watch as the screen comes up blank. How discouraging would that be? And I don’t even want to think about turning in for the night without having read through what the cast of characters has had to say about the day’s events.
So c’mon, guys, cough up. Right now. If I can do it, YOU can do it. Surely you can scrounge $10 out of an old sock somewhere? It’s our blog and it’s what we make of it— but only if we chip in every now and then. The PayPal button is up there on your right. Use it.
Spot on topic! Guess what, boss man? Management by punishment crushes the spirit.
(Oops … didn’t mean to sound so uppity there…)
Since time immortal the workplace has always been on an adversarial basis. I will therefore argue that the nature of the contemporary workplace is actually the lesser issue. Because, in a sort of way, it has changed less than the other side of the equation.
The other side of the equation being expectations.
The boss man has always pushed to extract maximum value from one’s labor. Just ask any Egyptian laborer, Roman soldier, mideval peasant, Victorian factory worker, etc. Nothing new.
Perhaps the answer lies, at least partly, in comparing what each of these examples expected as compared to what has come to be expected in the historical hiccup we call the Postwar era? What role do today’s material expectations play in the widely perceived deterioration of the workplace? Have we as a society built our own trap?
And if others, like me, don’t appreciate wriggling in this trap, what do we intend to do about it?
Hint: “refinancing” is not the answer
edgewaterjohn,
Beauty of a post. It would have taken me 90 seconds of head on ’scrolling’ for the reader to get that msg. As I noted below, standard fare in our neck of the woods for some time.
As easily ‘the’ most popular poster here ( ducks ) I know I won’t get so much as ounce of objection when I say.., in many cases we really brought this on ourselves?
When a job ( ‘any’ job ) became nothing more than a necessary evil in leveraging one’s self into financial independence through the Debt=Wealth Program, what did we expect!? Things were going downhill for long enough, why escalate things by making it clear to your employer “you have ‘better’ things going on”? Meaning that big koi pond project this weekend!
“…at which point he requested I clear my desk which I did happily!”
Bully!
“…in many cases we really brought this on ourselves?”
&
“…Have we as a society built our own trap?”
At what point in “modern times” did it require x2 “full-time” incomes to pencil out buying a home, um, “house”?
1. 1850- 1900
2. 1901-1928
3. 1929-1957
4. 1958-1971
5. 1972-1985
6. 1985-2009
7. All the above
8. Answer not here
Run Hwy, …RUN!
I had one of those once - He was horribly incompetent and all of the projects had gone south. I was not there long as I told him that I expected to be treated with respect and professionalism, at which point he requested I clear my desk which I did happily!
So c’mon, guys, cough up. Right now. If I can do it, YOU can do it. Surely you can scrounge $10 out of an old sock somewhere?
The guilt, it burns!
it burns!
LOL
It is how my corp has always managed, by fear and intimidation, and some patrons know that and use it against my fellow minions.
In fact they are doing it again. Just sent out a memo stating after the first of the year, things are going to be different ie: we only want to have good people here who back everything we say and do, otherwise you will be not wanted here.
Sounds like V’s Anna last night. “you will not say anything wrong about us, otherwise…”
“When I got home, a rambling, rather plaintive telephone message awaited on my answering machine. A dear friend, now four years from retirement at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, was recently downsized from the Mars project, and because he’s been identified as a “national asset” was given a consolation position working part time in another related division. Supposedly a 20-hour-a-week slot, he’s slowly driving himself even crazier trying to keep from losing this job too”
So what was the guy thinking? I would assume that working for the JPL, he was probably making relatively good money, so why is he four years from retirement with almost no 401-k or other means to draw on? Not to bayonet the wounded, but, at that point in your life, if you’ve been generally well employed up to that time and haven’t met with catastrophic circumstances, you should be able to survive almost any economic eventuality without living in your car. I am in my very early 60’s and even though I have never broken the bank in my career, I have been reasonably well employed and have amassed enough liquid net worth and lack of debt, that should my employment be abruptly terminated tomorrow, I could get by until Social Security time. At this point in our lives we early to mid boomers should be padding our retirement nest egg, not attempting to build it.
I fear that there are going to be a huge percentage of the 79 million boomers that will hit the retirement gates with very little where-with-all to fall back on, because they spent thier productive years, well, spending. The McMansions, leased Audi A-8’s, Aruban vacations, etc. were a siren call too loud to ignore. Now, alas, its too late.
Do I have empathy for those folks? Sorry to say, not a lot. They made thier choices, now they live with the conseqences.
So what was the guy thinking?
No $hit. This isn’t brain surgery. It’s just rocket science. I, too, wondered how this guy hadn’t put away a few bucks.
Let’s see,
90K a year (when he’s working,) minus alimony, child support (although his kids periodically live with him,) college expenses, medical expenses for one child’s disability, and his own ongoing medical treatment not covered by JPL’s cruddy HMO plan. Plus living in one of the most expensive places in the country in order to be available 24/7 when something goes wrong on site. Oh, and then there are the taxes for a single guy with no mortgage interest deduction or offset investments.
On top of this are the unpaid furloughs and the mass lay-offs when the projects (or their funding,) end; and in aerospace they DO end. The guy drives a beater, lives in a (for Pasadena,) cheap one bedroom apartment, and lost 2/3 of his 401(k) in the downturn. His only hobby/social life is math. While not exactly parsimonious, he’s a lot more frugal than most and even has spreadsheets for his and his kids’ budgets—not that they do much good when SHTF.
He’s still got young kids at his age…sounds like an ex heard her biological clock ticking. And now the ramifications.
Still, seems to me that the guy hasn’t stepped up to take responsibility for himself.
You can avoid alimony, child support and huge taxation by staying married (a novel notion, I know, but some do). Earlier in life, you can find a different career in a different place to avoid the pitfalls of the aerospace industry, lots do. Let the kids pay their own way to college, lots do. At 90K/year and an HMO plan, the guy earns more than 80% of the people in the country, and probably has better health coverage than 80%.
So again, I’m seeing a failure to plan. But I’m getting tired of the collective whining.
Spokaneman –
While I agree with some of your points such as letting the kids pay their own way, etc., can you stay married if the other person doesn’t want to stay married? I have always heard that “it’s a partnership”, but I’m single, so don’t really know. Cue Bonnie Raitt:
“But I can’t make you love me, if you don’t…” Sorry for the earworm!
MrBubble
PS: My start-up is in stasis and I just finished my thesis, so I join the ranks of the unemployed.
“…You can avoid alimony, child support and huge taxation by staying married…”
-not if the child-rearing spouse leaves you and sues, you can’t. The authorities tend to frown on abduction and imprisonment.
“…Earlier in life, you can find a different career in a different place to avoid the pitfalls of the aerospace industry, lots do….”
-To many, aerospace is a calling, and math nerds tend to have limited life-applicable skills. If everyone left for a more “practical” industry, we’d all be the poorer for it. Not a pretty job, but somebody has to do it….
Let the kids pay their own way to college, lots do.
-Not so much anymore, they don’t, especially if their parents are from the educated classes. Both of his have had jobs since they were in high school. Both turned down more prestigious university slots so they’d have to take out lesser loans. (One did the cc thing for two years first despite being accepted to Berkeley out of hs.) Then again, they could just forego the higher education and neuro-scientific aspirations and get jobs in real estate sales. And Dad could say to hell with them.
“…At 90K/year and an HMO plan, the guy earns more than 80% of the people in the country, and probably has better health coverage than 80%….”
-No argument here. But that 90K doesn’t go 80% as far as it might in Toledo or Elko.
So again, I’m seeing a failure to plan.
-The best laid plans of mice and men do gang aft agley.
But I’m getting tired of the collective whining.
-I’ll give him your sentiments the next time he comes up for air after an 18 hour day and a dialysis treatment.
Spokaneman,
Very well said. Still not sure where all this back-filling/peddling from others is coming from? Hey, we ALL got our problems.
And no one has struggled more than myself & MRs. DinOR since becoming empty-nesters. It’s SO… obvious she’s totally into being a grandparent and wouldn’t care a bit if we EVER attended another party/took a vacation.
The 1st. year Penelope was born she went through FIVE WEEKS vacation in uh.., well about 5 weeks. Hardly so much as 1/2 day off after she -burned- through it in no time flat! I’ve recently begun to mention if “I” spent as much time w/ “the band” ( as “she” does w/ ‘her’ grand daughter.., we’d ‘already’ be divorced! )
Add in the economy and life sux right now. For a LOT of people. So either let the authorities ‘frown’ or suck it up. ( NOW… what’s his problem!? )
I capitulate, ahansen is correct, , life has been completely unfair to the guy and he has every right to complain to whoever will listen.
What was I thinking?
Three middle class people in three entirely different job situations. Three illustrative stories I thought might be relevant to some of HBB’s readers–IE: we’re all in this mess together.
Some of us are actually trying to do something about it.
Send Ben a check.
Well, I’m sure no one needs ‘me’ to go out of my way to pee on their parade, but any time I hear the words; “alimony & child support”, they’re almost always termed in such a way there’s -nothing- else they can do but elicit sypmathy?
And for many years the majority of us have fallen for it hook, line and sinker. Look, I just don’t think there’s all that many perfectly well adjusted women out there that take perfectly well adjusted males and throw them out in the street ’cause they forgot to take the garbage out?
Especially when he/she has a decent job and makes a genuine effort. People can spend their paychecks how they want? With some guys it’s Harley’s others gambling, drugs? Who knows? We never seem to have any empathy for ‘them’? But when some guy needs to “trade in his 40 y.o for (2) 20’s” we get all weak in the knees b/c there’s kids involved.
I think for me the dead give-away is when they start each sentence/ref. to their “ex” by goading you into commiserating w/ them. “No dude, I ‘don’t’ know what you’re talking about” would nip a lot of this in the bud.
Ahansen, he’s working while he’s on DIALYSIS ? And he’s living in his CAR part of the time ? Tell him to get his tired self down to the S.S. office and apply for S.S. disability. NOW. I code all of the monthly dialysis clinics’ charges for the major hospital system where I work, and most of those folks are on S.S. disability. He should be too. What bullsh-t. Poor man. I love it when someone who has a nice job kicks those who are down, whether in print or thought. Guess what, you can be there some day. The odds are that some of the hardasses will be, no matter how superior they feel right now. Gee whiz.
Loved your post, DinOR. Couldn’t agree more.
ahansen,
Welcome to Oregon! ( We’ve been working that way since the 70’s ) In fact, it’s more or less a given. Nothing ‘new’ here.
“Lately it seems that every time I go into a familiar market, an entirely new group of people is working there.”
That’s been going on at Safeway here too. New crew of twentysomethings every week it seems.
I guess I’m lucky I work for an Asian-by-way-of Paris. He’s pretty easy going. It’s the Chinese way, he says.
Who knew.
Same here. Always knew the same folks by name, now am surprised when I see just one recognizable face in a few weeks time.
“They” the cvs corp took over Longs and Longs had emps for over 33 yrs. Knew them by name. They helped some seniors as if they were family. Poooooooooooof. Gone.
It upset the emps because they had come to know customers as family.
In 92, the ceo of my corp was quoted as saying ‘we have xx amount of unit attrition’. Meaning people = units.
Here’s where destruction should come into the picture. Bad businesses, of all sizes, should be allowed to fail. Companies that treat employees poorly, make bad business decisions and fail to compete with their competition deserve to flop. Bye bye Citi and Goldman.
I hate all of the corporate buzzwords that have seeped into daily life. I think we all hate the ubiquitous use of the word “consumer”. I hate hearing a McDonald’s called “a store”. To me it is still a restaurant. The one I hate the most is when I am watching cooking shows and all of these egomaniacal chefs call everything “the product”. “We have great product.” Funny, I thought it was food. It just seems like something a rancid MBA would say, not a chef. I won’t even get started on the whole “server” bulls–t.
“We have great product.” Funny, I thought it was food.
I’ve always been annoyed by the mortgage industry’s use of the word “product” to describe loans.
lavi d,
Good point. It’s almost as if no one can remember when a loan was a loan was a loan any more? The sheer proliferation of “products” should have been a flag in and of itself.
We’re in the burbs of Thousand Oaks (So Ca). It’s pretty affluent in Westlake Village, our neighbor city, where the grocery stores unloaded all the Americans and hired Hispanics. Many speak broken English, and don’t to follow through. $2.3M+ homes, and the grocery stores feel like a 3rd world experience.
Grocery, retail, and fast food (in general), use to be “step up” jobs. Now they’ve morphed into “the career” job.
Costco seems to still hire college kids, and retires. I like that, and will reward them with my money.
In the private sector: “When did America switch from working for reward to working to avoid punishment?”
In the public sector: “When did America switch from paying taxes to fund public services and benefits to paying taxes to avoid going to jail and being shot if you resist?”
Since Generation Greed spent the country’s future and left a bunch of debts behind.
Thanks for the message, ahansen!
This is a great time to help Ben keep this blog alive and well!
Please donate what you can. You can get back a lot more. That’s been my own personal, direct, firsthand experience.
And thanks to all who post here and civilly agree and disagree on politics, economics, policies, problems and solutions. I’m convinced the present day, our understanding of it, and therefore our individual lives, are all better because of it.
And thanks to all who post here and civilly agree and disagree on politics, economics, policies, problems and solutions.
and what about the rest of us who can at times behave like biatches on wheels?
I didn’t know the blog was in dire straits I will send cash money tout de suite.
Well, paypal at least.
I don’t think this is anything new, 25 years ago at my first job out of school there was a handmade sign in the machine shop “The beatings will continue until morale improves. signed management”
I agree. As I remind myeslf every day, “There is a reason it is called a job and not ‘happy happy fun time’ “
I own my own business, and I’ve still found that my boss is a dick.
I’ve found the same thing being self employed. Has the highest standards of anyone I’ve ever met too.
Perhaps you should form a union and go on strike? See if you can get him to lighten up a bit…
I love bink and his/her boss. They are both very funny.
Goes back to the old question, who owns the job? The employer or the employee?
The answer has always been very simple to me, the employer, however many folks don’t see it that way. Simple issues, often get twisted into something they need not be.
I’ve employed a lot of people in my time, and have always found that a cooperative relationship results in the the best outcomes. Then again, making money has not been my primary motivator, and scientists, artisans and craftsfolk tend not to take well to the yoke….
My favorite along those lines was in the office of the director of Naval Research at China Lake.
The quote from “Spartacus:”
“We keep you alive for the benefit of the ship. Row well, and live.”
Sorry, that was Ben-Hur.
Thanks for the correction, oxide. Them gladiators all look alike to me….
Now back to the oars with you!,
Maybe I missed something, but where are you
located now? resort? seasonal?
I live in the Piute Mountains about an hour away from Lake Isabella. Isabella’s not exactly a resort, more an extended trailer park, but has some good white water rafting, wind sailing, and fishing during the summer. Also a Vons Market. I get down there maybe once a month.
aah…good old Lake Isabella. Used to sky dive out there starting in the early ’60’s when
there was NOTHING out there. 60 second
delays from twelve five with the old T-11 chutes. When the new ram air chutes arrived, the failure rate was 1 in 10, make for
interesting times.
Lake Isabella is an incredible place. While living in the high desert, I used to drive on 178 in the warm months when I visited my parents in Fresno. In the colder months I would drive over 58 (Tehachapi). When I told my parents I would drive the scenic route, they knew it was 178.
“We keep you alive for the benefit of the ship. Row well, and live.”
I pull on those economic oars every two weeks.
Just returned from a trip to North Carolina, here’s an appropos catch phrase I saw on several t-shirts: Paddle Harder, I Hear Banjo Music.
Reminds me of an old joke.
First mate to crew of an old Roman hand rowed galleon.
“Good news: Double rations tonight, men.”
“Bad news: The Caption wants to go water skiing tomorrow.”
And they wonder why “the consumer” is cutting back on spending. Everyone I talk to shares the same feeling. Even if they still have a good paying job they feel they are dangling from a thread.
But the real downisde is that this situation brings out the worst in most people. Instead of camaraderie it brings out unhealthy competition, where people lie and slander each other to boost themselves in order to survive.
it brings out unhealthy competition, where people lie and slander each other to boost themselves in order to survive.
2 x per yr, the corp sends out its 1-800 Snitch line poster.
Doesn’t matter what, it is just the message it implies. What about the ceo/vps who are making multi million $ bad decisions and buying a widget that they know won’t work, or starting in an area they pull out of shortly after, expending $$$$ to open that market. Poof.
We are talking multi millions and yet, if someone walks off with a pencil…well not so much the pencil but you get my drift.
I’m not sure if your post is in favor of snitch lines, or against, at first I read it as “pro”.
IMO those snitch lines are a godsend. Complaints to HR are pretty much useless, that dept. usually falls in line with how the direct supervisor wants to bone the employee.
Where I work the snitch dept is the one who oversees the entire company, dept. heads and HR included.
Sorry, didn’t mean to make it sound like I was for these stupid
corporate intimidation tactics.
You have pencils?
We only have pens here. They are so crummy that I have to provide my own. I generally take a bunch from a conference I often attend (sometimes from the small pool of free admissions we get because people in my department speak there and sometimes because I am speaking).
I think it really depends on the industry you work in plus maybe the geographical area.
So many people in the financial services sector in the NY area have an amazing sense of entitlement in their jobs. Now, is this because of the area or the industry? I don’t know, but I can tell you that the things people complain bitterly about here are pathetic in the wider context of the tough job environments many people have.
Someone decided to stop providing Dr. Pepper in the soda closet? How dare they!
One of my reactions to Ahansen’s story was that it sounds like a problem that could be solved by a union, but it was not the first reaction. I had several other ones first.
My first reaction was that it sounds like a company where senior management doesn’t trust the first level managers. When first level managers are allowed to do their jobs, they can figure out when employees are doing theirs and you don’t need a computer to tell you that someone is really inefficient. It means you have to give the managers time to “be on the floor” not spending all their time filling out forms, reporting up, and working projects other than managing. The first good manager I ever worked for told me his job was to keep all the garbage out of our way so we could get our work done. He was great, but his philosophy would have needed a few tweaks if we were grocery store clerks instead of computer programmers. By the way, if you want first level managers to be good, you have to pay them more than teenager working after school wages.
I ran the matriculation ceremony for freshmen at my undergraduate school my junior year and learned/figured out a bunch of stuff about managing people doing boring, repetative tasks. First thing I figured out was that if you want to keep people in a building for nearly 10 hours, you better darn well feed them a few times. I was dealing with volunteers, so I had the college provide the food, but employees need reasonable breaks so they can eat their own food and go to the bathroom. I set up a whole rotation schedule for tasks so folks wouldn’t get bored and then had to throw it out when they said they preferred to stay with what they already knew. I let them pick their partners so they could work with someone they liked. And I didn’t assign myself any task at all except “floating” so I could follow each group through the process and figure out if there was anything else that had to be done that I had not assigned to any of the volunteers (there was, several somethings). Plus I had time to make the co-ordinating phone calls, reassure the President and Dean that everything was under control a few times during the day, and thank the employees who had saved my butt by telling me about 20 hugely important things about the process a month before we had to do it.
Or maybe it was one of those horrible management consulting things where a bunch of 24 year olds tell senior management that they will make more money if they get the reputation of having check out lines that are 30 seconds faster than the next place and the only way to do that is buy really expensive monitoring software/hardware. Well, no, I go to grocery stores that have good sales, don’t run out of sale items (or if they do run out have efficient people around to give me a rain check) and don’t have absurdly long check out lines. 30 seconds doesn’t phase me. Decreasing the average time people stand in line by 30 seconds is easy to put in a senior executive’s list of goals so he can earn his bonus, but it leads to the actual clerks living in a world of fear and customers missing the familiar faces they used to know. Senior executives don’t want wishy washy performance goals like “increase profits” or “increase customer satisfaction and loyalty” because it is possible to miss those and then they wouldn’t get their bonuses.
It comes back to management. It has to be targeted to the kind of business you are in. Maybe banks can measure the efficiency of clerks by timing the interactions because they are also keeping track of the type of transaction, but the same method doesn’t work for grocery stores because they aren’t keeping track of how many items were scanned or whether the purchaser had 3 credit cards declined before finding one that works or whether the person decided to put back half their items when it turned out they had picked out the size that was not on sale. You have to think about the details of the work your business does, which means empowering people lower down the chain, who actually see that work happen.
And not killing the people who do the actual work by making them fulfill stupid, artificial “performance targets” that are set up just to give the senior executives a chance to earn their bonuses, whether they help the bottom line of the business or not would be nice too.
I think a sub-point I was trying to make here is that profitable activity cannot be standardized where there is extensive customer interaction. There just are too many variables and vagueries to put into a one-size-fits-all binary equation—as the quantmasters discovered.
In this particular town, for example, the whole point of going shopping is for the social interaction. Lots of oldsters, welfare mums, folks on holiday who wonder “how’s the fishing;” they don’t *have* to make a trip to the store to buy that one can of tuna, but they do because it’s something fun to do. The checker is probably their neighbor, or churchmate, and they want to chat. Removing that element from the equation makes the store cold and hostile, and affects the company’s bottom line in this location.
And I am more and more convinced that this stuff is set up so senior execs can have performance targets that *sound* good but are are easily accomplished so the bonuses are earned no matter what.
The practitioner who taught my LLM taxation of executive comp class mentioned numerous times that you only ever set up performance based bonuses based on performance goals that are entirely “controllable” meaning there was no chance of not meeting them. Stuff that couldn’t be self-controlled, like having better margins than the other companies in your sector was never part of the equation.
You are so right, Polly.
Vons has gone through three sets of owners in the last fifteen years (that I’m aware of,) and each time a new layer of management is added to the equation to further remove the worker from the decision-making. In this case, what essentially is a neighborhood grocery in an impoverished market is run like its big-city counterparts; with the same quotas, salaries, and profit margins. It’s laughably inefficient, and I’m convinced it’s being operated at a loss simply because some state mandate somewhere requires that the parent company maintain the outlet in this isolated region if they want to do business in the rest of the state.
Instead of taking advantage of the bounty from local central valley farmers, the store must order from a central warehouse in LA and ship the food back up to about ten miles from where it was originally produced. Instead of acknowledging that the summer tourist months will have a different shopper demographic than the winter ones, the store has to stock a given number and variety of perishable goods. There is a huge amount of waste just for the sake of standardization.
It’s hard to imagine that this scenario is being repeated in at least a percentage of the company’s thousands of outlets without senior management being aware of it. Perhaps it’s cheaper to carry the non-productive locations than to address the anomaly?
Then again, maybe they are just that oblivious to their markets. For awhile, one set of new owners slashed the wine selection (in California for heaven’s sake!) down to the bulk producers because the new owners didn’t “believe” in wine. Against their religion or something. That’s when I knew that iteration was doomed.
I’m pretty sure the company is still unionized. In the last decade the union has gone on strike, with disastrous effects on its members, on at least two occasions here in South and Central CA. The last time, about five years ago, it was to protest having to pay $30 a month for their family health insurance benefit! Each time management hasn’t budged, and after a prolonged period of trying to live on strike benefits, the union has ended up with a decimated membership and a less-secure contract. So maybe senior management is invested in keeping its employees in a state of high turnover with an eye towards greater mechanization of their outlets?
It probably isn’t cheaper to do it that way. The senior executive in charge of the distribution chain once had a performance goal to put all the stores into the system they had already set up for the city stores. It is probably is well designed for the stores far from the farmers. It makes no sense in your area, BUT, that was the performance goal - easy to define and you can accomplish it no matter what - so that is what happened and utility to the bottom line be damned.
Oh, and the customers get older produce. Brilliant.
Vons is owned by Safeway now, right?
Isn’t there any food co-op or co-operative buying club? It is so much better to get fresher food from closer by.
I lo-o-o-ove to shop at my food co-op. Great organic food, upbeat atmosphere, and cheerful employees. They may not be the cheapest place to buy food, but you know what? I love ‘em anyway.
“In this case, what essentially is a neighborhood grocery in an impoverished market is run like its big-city counterparts; with the same quotas, salaries, and profit margins.”
Bob Nardelli, who ran Home Depot into the ground before he got his parachute had a management team with a similar philosophy. Standardize everything so you only needed one set of metrics. Every store even had to carry the exact same inventory, so stores in southern Florida received a shipment of snow blowers in the fall one year.
Now Mr. Nardelli is running Chrysler Corp. We can see how that’s working out.
There really isn’t the population base to support a farmer’s market or coop up here where I live, and Isabella (the nearest population base,) isn’t exactly a hotbed of foodies and organic gardeners, (it’s main crop being methamphetamine.) I think there’s a farmer’s market in Bakersfield, but it’s not consistent–a long hot drive to find it’s not being held this week.
The irony of living in the breadbasket of the country and not being able to get fresh produce from the stores does not escape me; mostly I grow my own fruits, nuts, berries, gamebirds, and vegetables and trade honey with the ranchers for grass fed beef.
There is a huge amount of waste just for the sake of standardization.
Just like growing up in the desert fashion-wise. As a teen interested in fashion, but living in the desert, looking at Seventeen,Bazaar, Vogue etc, especially in Sept issue was like looking at martians. The woolen clothing would be shipped to the S.cal stores and would just sit there, while we would look for shorts, blouses, maybe a sweater. For those in FL, you get my ‘drift’.
A big piece of the problem is that WalMart has trained all (well most) of us to worship at the alter of the lowest price. When businesses are forced to shave their prices to to the lowest common denominator or lose business, they are forced to find savings in other places. In the retail business about the only place that those savings can be found is in the personnel, there just are not many other “variable expenses” in the retail industry. Management then undertakes efforts to reduce headcount and increase efficiency in those that remain. But, people are not machines, and increasing efficiency is a tough task at best. That’s where a lot of these performance measurement efforts come from. But by and large they just do not work. But management, being people, feel like they have to do something to justify thier existence to their bosses.
I was an executive for a retail chain for a few years and left the industry, primarially for that reason. It is just tough on people. I got tired of dealing with it.
But again, it all starts with all (most) of us voting with our feet for the lowest prices we can find.
But management, being people”
You know, I’ve found it most helpful when you find yourself in that scenario to share from your 1st interview -on- that “my family is my number 1 priority” and outline on a calendar exactly just what workdays are “off limits” for family gatherings, hunting trips and Super Bowl Sunday.
Man, I NEVER let my employer know my preferences/weaknesses! Never. No quicker way for the White Sox to become the butt of nearly every joke he cracks and a sure fire way to make -sure- you won’t be getting -any- of those ’special’ days off! Do I need to be doing some kind of an Employee 101 Indoctrination here..?
“Man, I NEVER let my employer know my preferences/weaknesses! Never. No quicker way for the White Sox to become the butt of nearly every joke he cracks and a sure fire way to make -sure- you won’t be getting -any- of those ’special’ days off! Do I need to be doing some kind of an Employee 101 Indoctrination here..?”
I studied engineering so that I could participate in a professional problem solving environment free of the piece-meal and/or hourly labor philosophy.
Even that’s no guarantee. I didn’t study engineering per se, but I worked for an engineering company which had a billable hour system. It was a nightmare.
ahansen:
Like the old defunct Circuit City got rid of all the experienced high priced help a few years back and replaced them with commission only people, and min. wage kids at the customer service counter.. figuring they will work harder.
Well you see how well that worked out.
————————————–
the whole point of going shopping is for the social interaction…and quality information which you can still get at best buy
In this city I have noticed that the cashiers at the grocery stores are amongst the most vile, awful, rotten, snotty little (fill in the blanks) imaginable. They even make the East Village K-Mart cashiers look good.
This covers more than the low end of the spectrum. This includes the high end, too. I have gone into an Associated (low end) and the attitude is beyond repugnant. The cashiers say nothing. They don’t look at you. They don’t thank you. Counting change seems to be a skill on par with firing off a f—ing space shuttle. They are miserable.
The Gourmet Garage is higher on the pole. Often times their cashiers would fit in perfectly at Associated. They can’t greet you. They can’t thank you. I always say “thank you” and “have a nice day”. Many times I don’t even get that returned. This is not a place where you are buying blue-light specials.
Citarella, definitely on the high end, can be just as bad. You are pushed through the lines. Perhaps at this store they have the type of systems in place that manage speed. The cashiers here would also fit in at Associated on many occasions. They can really be bossy and snotty.
I can perhaps see these people being nasty to problem customers. That is not me. I don’t complain. I pay in cash. I smile and say “hello” and “thank you”. You can still get treated like crap.
I doubt all of these employees are Woody Guthrie working class heroes. I’m sure they sometimes have to deal with nonsense. But many are not victims. They are simply people that want to be paid without doing any work. They want to show up late and leave early. As somebody that has done a lot of dirty, nasty jobs I take it as a personal offense when people act like this. I can only imagine how pissy they would be if they tried to do the job I used to do in a nursing home kitchen. I can still remember scraping those bowls that were returned with oatmeal, prunes and boiled eggs. Yummy! Finding peoples teeth on trays was always fun.
I am for the working person but they also need to change their ways. I didn’t like some of the jobs I worked but I never acted like these stink-faced, text messaging little brats. Let’s try not to canonize every working person and then we will have more credibility when we attack the losers that are raping the country. Freedom for all. Accountability from all.
…but I never acted like these stink-faced, text messaging little brats.
Amen.
Here in LV, about 70% of the supermarket (Albertsons) workers suffer from a serious lack of interest and ability.
On different occasions, I have:
1)Told a box boy that he needed to stop interrupting (flirting with) the cashier because I and the other nine people in line wanted to get the hell out of the store and home after work.
2)Stared at a box boy - after he finished bagging my stuff - until he finally met my gaze while I repeated, ever more loudly, “Thank you!”
3)Waited for a woman at the courtesy booth to stop counting dimes so she could help me. When she did, the phone rang, she put out her hand to answer it, and I put my hand on the receiver and said, “I’m next”. That was deeply satisfying.
As a boxboy in the mid-70’s, I could hold down three checkstands (bagging) and run out and grab a few carts, I know this job is not that hard, and I have no sympathy for you if you’re bored.
I get the distinct impression that many people in the service industry have some subconscious notion that they are just killing time until Hollywood calls.
NYCityBoy,
Bravo! One of the most detailed an insightful posts ( on ‘this’ topic anyway ) for a long. long time.
And it doesn’t stop at the Retail level. I run into it just about every where I go. It’s as if there’s a ‘threshold’ you simply don’t go beyond?
I was helping my daughter ( who had -already- attained a deferment for her college loan ) by calling the NEW loan admin. When I pressed as to ‘how’ this had somehow been brought to brink of collections.., it was like “No matter how incompetent I’ve conducted MYself, you have no right to talk to me that way!” ( Besides, my GF is sending me some really HOT pictures right now!”
It’s so… just below the surface. The only way you’re going to get anyone in that position to “escalate” emotion ( and ’some’ semblance of commitment ) is if the co. is in Kentucky or… Indiana. Anywhere ‘else’? Forget it.
lavi d,
Another… excellent post! ( Where were you guys a few weeks back? ) Recently you’d think everyone was toiling away in a salt mine?
Again, how’d we get from vilifying “FB’s” to championing The Workers? What’s worse is that you feel absolutely -awful- for the one or two employees that are actually trying to take the job serious? Obviously these loosers didn’t get the memo:
No one gives… a rip any more!!!
NYC boy
I may gripe a lot but when it came to work, I was always the dependable one, it was hard for me to take vacation time or days off. If they needed someone to come in on a day off I did.
There really are only 2 types of workers, people that have or want families so they want a brain dead job to coast on. And people like me who need a fun interesting job to be satisfied. That’s why I traveled a lot worked in TV it was always different each day. And why I still DJ.
Maybe i have been out of the mainstream for too long and not noticed how bad it really is. Also here in Sunnyside almost all the people at $hi!!bank food town ekards have been there for years, because they are bilingual and live here and walk to work. It would be sheer lunacy to fire very local workers over a dollar or two an hour
————————————————
I didn’t like some of the jobs I worked but I never acted like these stink-faced, text messaging little brats.
“…and I put my hand on the receiver and said, “I’m next”. That was deeply satisfying.”
Why just last night…the cashier was “esplainin’” to x2 “baggers” why men could never stand the pain of giving birth…then supported her claim with vivid description of the surgery involved in her last (of several) child birthing Kodak moments!
Another… excellent post!
I feel like I must point out that I am NOT a mean or bullying person.
These events happened over a space of at least four years and I was much more congenial than it sounds in text.
Most of the time I just stand patiently in line and wonder what happened to being “efficient”.
And whenever I get cheerful, quick and efficient help, I point the person out to management, and/or tip appropriately.
lavi d,
No one should have taken it that way. I’ll be honest, ‘most’ times I’m undendingly polite to retial/FS folks. But damn it, sometimes I ‘am’ in a hurry.
Since I’m an excellent tipper ( and I think most folks here identify themselves as such ) there’s times when I need a favor. Usually they remember. Usually.
I’ll be damned if I’m going to feel like I’m interrupting something when people are on the clock! Hell, I was just talking to a potential client and he asked ( after I offered ’several’ appts. during the week! ) if Saturday would be “o.k”. And like the spineless putz that I AM I said, “No problem, what time works for you!?”
( 50 years old, own practice and I STILL don’t have the chutzpah to stand anyone up! )
Why just last night…the cashier was “esplainin’” to x2 “baggers” why men could never stand the pain of giving birth…then supported her claim with vivid description of the surgery involved in her last (of several) child birthing Kodak moments!
Oh really? Hah, if it’s so terrible why don’t women stop after the first one? Truth is it’s not that bad at all. It’s not a lot of fun but it’s not terrible. I’ve been in a lot more pain than childbirth and didn’t get a damn thing to show for it.
When I see some of these women walking around pregnant all I can think is that the act of producing that little monster must have been far more painful than it will be for her to actually squirt it out. Clearly men have low standards and women have even lower standards.
Oh really? Hah, if it’s so terrible why don’t women stop after the first one?
My mother stopped after the first one.
Oh really? Hah, if it’s so terrible why don’t women stop after the first one?
My mother stopped after the first one.
Well, yeah, I guess sometimes it really is that bad. I remember visiting my friend after she had her baby. Her roomate, a very tiny Korean lady had just given birth to a 10 pounder. She spoke very little english and the nurses were trying to make sure she understood the consent form to tie her tubes. She kept repeating “No more babies, NEVER!
Old friend of mine in Wisconsin, big guy also smart and talented, was 14 lbs at birth. I never met his mother, but he said that she never ever let him forget the suffering he had caused her.
“I ran the matriculation ceremony for freshmen at my undergraduate school my junior year and learned/figured out a bunch of stuff about managing people doing boring, repetative tasks. First thing I figured out was that if you want to keep people in a building for nearly 10 hours, you better darn well feed them a few times.”
I have some sort of brain abnormality which prevents me from doing repetitive tasks, over, and over, and over. The only way I could work on an assembly line would be under the influence of medication or illicit substances. Seriously. I’d go running out of there after the first day. I need mental stimulation and variety, or I’m done.
…prevents me from doing repetitive tasks, over, and over, and over.
Har!
(that was a joke, right?)
Well, this wasn’t assembly line boring. More like collect cards with names and put them in alphabetical order boring. Or make sure the stack of certificates matches the collected cards that have now been alphabatized boring. Or get kids who technically are allowed to leave sit and take a survey on their background info by filling out little scantron dots while keeping the number 2 pencil sharp boring. Or make sure nobody wanders off during the art history lecture about the reserve hall murals boring. All while being fairly cheerful and welcoming.
Note that each of these tasks had to happen perfectly 10 times in the course of one day. And if I hadn’t wandered into the library administrative office and been referred to the janitor who had dealt with this whole shebang 30 to 40 times over the course of his career, I would have screwed up at least half of it. He retired that year and they made me write up a manual so the next victim would have a clue about what to do. I made sure I was 30 miles from campus hiking the Appalachian Train (yes, really, hiking) with some friends when it happened the next year.
“Even my longtime housekeeper—the kind of gem the organizationally-challenged would kill for—is frazzled and worried, as more and more of her clients reluctantly cut back or cancel their contracts due to budget constraints.”
“With so many of us in danger of becoming unemployed, those who are left increasingly labor under a cloud of threat and intimidation—whether real or implied.”
“So c’mon, guys, cough up. Right now. If I can do it, YOU can do it.”
Isn’t it safe to assume that someone such as yourself, who has a maid, isn’t hurting financially? Do you really understand what those of us who are not in the privileged class go through on a day to day basis? I’m certainly not against your message of sending Ben money, but what’s easy for you is not always easy for others. This is what has really bothered me about many of your posts - the detachment.
One of my biggest pet peeves is when the rich cry poor. And, oh do they ever. I see it first hand. They bellyache about all sorts of perceived financial hardships, all the while having no idea what it really means to struggle. I do wonder, too, if your maid is of the legal variety, or if you’re feasting on the illegal alien servant pool like most of the rich. I make no assumptions, but living in S. CA, housekeepers who are legal citizens are as rare as hen’s teeth.
There is nothing wrong with somebody living a comfortably rich lifestyle in the US. There is, however, something terribly wrong with someone living like a king, but feigning poverty to the poor around them. I don’t know you, but your own words leave many questions about who you are, and what you’re trying to portray.
What ever happened to BigV? Where is she?
Something strange happened- I’m not quite sure. She disappeared quite quickly, and I’m wondering if she was banned.
Nah, why would she be banned? She had interesting dialogue. Didn’t pi ss off as many as someone we know.
+1
1) I am ahansen’s housekeeper.
2) I am not an illegal alien.
No you’re not, x.
And no, you’re not.
can I apply for the job?
I can relocate.
Sure.
It’s not a “job” so to speak, but you’re welcome to come and hang out at the Nerd Sanctuary. Be sure to bring a sweater!
Drop me a line, Philly. Ben has my info.
a
OK
Listen to some righteous horns -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCA-edcGsO4
this is good if you’re partial to saxophone, trumpets, etc.
Holy MOLY! The National Chops Repository lives. Even the kittycats were boogying.
Yours?
What a *hoot* to play with a gang that can blow a storm like that. Thanks for the link!
That was way cool, X.
I saw Maynard Ferguson in the early 70s either in Lawrence KS or KC MO, and at the Hollywood Bowl - I think - sometime in early 80s.
Good times, good music.
HOLY MOLY.
Which one are you? That was terrific.
Count Basie came to Hemet to lead our HS award winning Jazz band and the rest of us band geeks. Zowie, good stuff.
Yeah. Which one are you, X?
DD, I also saw Count Basie and Duke Ellington in the early 70s. Thanks to Cousin Bill, a trombone player (marching band, summer musicals and all) who was a guide to music and gave me a clue anyway and made my life richer.
I saw Maynard Ferguson in the early 70s either in Lawrence KS or KC MO
I remember the free outdoor Jazz concerts KC MO would throw every Sunday in the late 70’s… Herbie Mann, Woody Herman, Les McCan, Tommy/Jimmy Dorsey Band, Pat Metheny, Stan Getz, Winton Marcellas, etc.
I was just in KC and it seemed to be hit less hard than the coasts although one friend’s house is being foreclosed, American Airlines is closing its overhaul base and Home Depot was empty.
One friend’s gf had been unable to sell her house for over a year and I suggested that she should lower the price. He replied that the price was what they were going for but I said apparently not.
Got to go to a KU football game in Lawrence and the campus looked great in the fall as usual.
KU in-state tuition 1980: $918 (Memories: priceless)
KU in-state tuition 2009: $7,725
I also visited California where I lived for 23 years. The Bay Area is suffering but the Trader Joe’s checkers are still friendly, helpful, cheerful and attentive. Maybe because they work for a company that respects its workers and pays above the average.
Oh give it a rest, Grizzly.
I don’t have a “maid.” Once every two weeks a (200th-generation “legal” American) friend comes and helps me with the stuff I can’t see to do myself. In exchange, I let her son live up on the back forty in his trailer. Occasionally I catch a ride into town with him to get supplies. I guess that makes him my “driver.” Gad, I’m rich!
Yes, I’ve lived in quite wealthy circumstances, and yes, I’ve spent the winter in a tipi because I had to. I’ve eaten roadkill for Christmas dinner, and cleaned motel toilets for a living, and hung with the ‘bos along the railroad tracks. I’ve managed to survive for 50+ years without a legitimate “career,” and until I had my face ripped off, without any sort of public assistance. Ever. Since then I’ve lived on SSI disability; a munificent $620 a month, out of which I have to pay for health insurance and medications because Medicaid doesn’t cover any of my treatments or prescriptions. Other than that I either do it myself, or do without. Mostly I do without. You?
Don’t assume I don’t have the authority of my words; it makes you look like a twit to those on board who know me. Have you sent Ben a donation yet?
It is better to have money if only for financial reasons.
it is, indeed.
You go gal. I like it when you slap some one down. It’s about time.
Don’t take the Grizz personally ahansen. He appears to have a problem with anybody who may ‘appear’ to have some means.
I have always enjoyed your posts. You have obviously lived a full life and posses an enviable writing talent. Please continue your good work!
As far as supporting the blog, I send Ben a twenty every 5 months or so. I figure this is like a newspaper subscription for me. Minus the BS of course.
You’re flat out wrong, SV guy. The only problem I have is when rich people cry poor. Did I strike a nerve, or something? I have a vague memory of someone of means getting fleeced on MT acreage. Are you feeling poor, lately?
If you can afford a housekeeper, you’re not poor.
Please learn to read, Jojo, before you make assumptions.
Thanks mucho, SV. I may not have the money at present, but when things go weird, I’ve always managed to find The Means.
And you’re so right, my life continues to amaze even me. I’m pretty sure they dropped me off on the wrong planet….
So sorry, Ahanson. I know that you’ve struggled. You continue to be very brave.
My post wasn’t pointed only at you, ahansen. In light of this economic meltdown, I’m worn out from hearing all the sob stories of the wealthy who have had to part with their beloved assets, and cut back on their conspicuous consumption. If I’m wrong about you, then I apologize. When I’ve been critical of you, I’ve highlighted why, and have never leveled baseless attacks. I don’t necessarily dislike you- I don’t know you. Perhaps, in your writings, you haven’t considered how they sometimes come across.
You ask about me- I’ve NEVER been on public assistance, and I imagine I’d have to literally be on the streets before I ever even gave it a thought. I’m not wealthy, nor have I ever been. I don’t aspire to be. If I ever have a lot, I’ll give most of it to charities which I deem appropriate. I’ve just become absolutely disgusted by the materialism and greed that has gripped this country and it’s citizens. I see it in my own family. Maybe I have misunderstood you, but I’m not the first person on this blog who has.
Apology accepted, Bear. Thank you.
One of the fascinating things about writing these guest blogs is the way people project their own circumstances into the words I post here. I do consider them and the intentions behind them VERY carefully, and am always surprised at what sets people off, while things I might personally consider inflammatory often go unremarked.
It’s fun to try to create a persona for all the characters I meet here, but I try not to take it beyond my personal fiction into the semi-public realm of this board. As we have seen, the results can be unfortunate….
I think that is the beauty of HBB, inasmuch as we take from it what we need and give to it what we can, without all the physical messiness of actually having to interact with people we might wish to smack were we to meet them in person. Like our relatives. Hang in there, son, and keep fighting the good fight!
People ruled by fear are easier to control and are less likely to have time to think about things - things such as: why the bankers who destroyed the economy have been rewarded for their actions? Why housing is somehow “affordable” when it clearly isn’t? Why if you or I didn’t pay our taxes we’d be tossed in prison, but it’s okay to not pay taxes if you’re connected (Geither, Daschle, etc.)
Crushing jobs full of artifical systems that rule by fear are great for the overlords. Plus, a demoralized population is more likely to spend money they don’t have on trinkets in a futile effort to find meaning and happiness in their dull, pointless lives.
“Plus, a demoralized population is more likely to spend money they don’t have on trinkets in a futile effort to find meaning and happiness in their dull, pointless lives.”
+1000
Well said.
Pondering,
Agreed, and we’re knee-deep in the evidence of that all… around us. Still, when employees make altogether too obvious they have NO intention of keeping that job (1) minute longer than necessary to acquire said ‘trinkets’ you may as well paint a rather large and unmistakable BULLS-EYE on your back!
Christ, I learned ‘that’ f@cking much WHEN I was teen ( working for teen wages! ) Want to find a sure-fire way to make certain ‘you’re’ the guy that’s going to be cleaning up around the dumpster? Make sure every conversation begins and ends w/ that tricked out truck you’re working on!
Why is IT we can’t get adults to grasp the same simple concepts? I see it in the “homesick” looks on their faces each-and-every-time I go IN to Safeway!
or at the very least click on all the ads!
I went to the InksEx website and learned that, incredibly, this is my 985th HBB post. I was able to revisit my first post ever, in March 2006, which spoke of Tampa’s bubble-inflected degeneration, but could have referred to any place in Florida:
There should be no question that we are on the way down. Everyone who wanted to buy at these prices has bought, sometimes more than once. Yet each week brings yet another announcement of a planned development, usually named after somewhere in Italy or southern France to give the illusion that we don’t live in the middle of increasingly ugly, car-choked urban sprawl, busily turning our last environmental, historic, or unique places into “investments” purchased largely by people who don’t even live here.
I was able to revisit my first post ever, in March 2006,
Just a note, but it’s possible you posted earlier - I could only get data from that far back, but earlier archives in blogspot format go back to 2005.
“…usually named after somewhere in Italy or southern France to give the illusion that we don’t live in the middle of increasingly ugly, car-choked urban sprawl”
Ha, the latest Irvine Co. “Village’s” names from “The O.C.” :
1. Montecito
2. Sonoma
3. Carmel
4. Monterey
5. Santa Cruz
6. Coronado
7. Santa Rosa
8. La Casella
Some street “names”:
1. Regal
2. Sanctuary
3. Rhapsody
4. Intrigue
5. Spanish Lace
6. Vintage
(Hwy’s favorite): 7. Grassland Bungalow
Hwy50ina49Dodge
“Village” Carmel
1 Grassland Bungalow
Irvine, CA 92620
Apprx Cost: Mid $1,000,000’s
BWAHAHAHicHAHAHicHAHAHAHAHicHAHAHic* (DennisN™)
Streets used to have names for presidents and such.
Cities with large emigrant populations typically used numbered streets and avenues that enabled the non-English speaking folks to navigate and contribute to commerce.
Article I saw:
You won’t see any mention of housing policy in the Congress’ official summary or the White House’s announcement that Obama had signed the measure. But if you look carefully, you’ll find it buried in the middle of the 31,332-word bill (which can claim the dubious virtue of topping out at over 1,000 words longer than George Orwell’s novel Animal Farm).
If Congress had done nothing, the maximum government-backed loan for a house or condo in the continental United States would have dropped from $729,750 to $625,500 on January 1, 2010. Other loans — known as “non-conforming” loans — would still be available, but they’d be more expensive. TotalMortgage.com, for instance, puts the difference at around 1.1 percentage points as of this week.
It’s true that the extension applies mostly to coastal areas (and it’s even higher in Alaska, Guam, Hawaii, and the Virgin Islands), deemed sufficiently “high cost” to exceed the normal $417,000 limit. Home-buyers in the wastelands of Detroit, where you can buy houses for a few thousand dollars, won’t be affected. Not so ones in Washington, D.C., New York, Boston, and San Francisco.
Nevertheless, letting the maximum loan amount fall back to normal levels would have been wise. First, it would reduce the cost of any possible future taxpayer-funded bailout if housing prices continue to fall.
Or have we forgotten how taxpayers bailed out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in over $400 billion of stock and debt guarantees? That’s despite the federal law creating them in the first place, which clearly says: “This chapter may not be construed as obligating the federal government, either directly or indirectly, to provide any funds… or to honor, reimburse, or otherwise guarantee any obligation or liability…”
Second, it would rescind a sliver of one of the government distortions of the market that gave us the housing bubble and bust, coupled with all the economic pain of the past year or two. Without cheap loans, it’s more difficult to have excessive speculation and a housing frenzy.
You can blame, in part, special interest groups who profited during the housing bubble. Realtors pushed for the higher conforming loan limits. The California Association of Mortgage Brokers urged members to lobby Congress to keep the higher limits. The National Association of Home Builders darkly warned in 2005 that “25 basis points tacked on to the mortgage rate will price about 1.2 million households out of the market.” (Four years later, we now know that many of those folks might have been better off to continue to rent.)
Third, letting the maximum amount fall would have been a modest step toward what President Obama says he really wants: affordable housing.
The president’s statement accompanying his administration’s official budget says “access to affordable housing” is an important goal. Limiting what amounts to government-subsidized loans will, at the margin, increase interest rates and reduce the amount that sellers can charge for homes.
How much home prices would fall is an open question, but fall they would. A Chicago Fed letter from 2005 written by economist Richard Rosen suggested that if mortgage rates rise from 5.8 percent to 6.5 percent, housing prices would fall by 6.5 percent. An interest rate jump to 7.5 percent implies that “housing prices could fall by 15.5 percent.”
Of course, this would run up against the current political dogma in Washington, where economic know-nothingness is more common than political courage, where existing homeowners are favored over would-be homeowners, and where our elected representatives who tout the need for “affordable housing” in theory vote the other way in practice.
Breaking news:
Fed funds rate to remain unchanged. You can now return to what you were doing prior to this groundbreaking announcement.
(yawn)
WOW that was well written! Count me in for $25. i refuse to use paypal ( rage against the machine i guess), so is there any address to send a check?
It’s up at the top right of the page. I put my posted check out earlier. I used a Silver Surfer 41¢ (from the Marvel Comics Super Heroes block) with three 1¢ Tiffany lamp stamps.
How could the PayPal experience compare?
Your right, it is! Thanks:)
This morning, I was in another discussion group, where, lo and behold, someone from a local economic development agency was trumpeting her agency’s newfound concern for small biz/entrepreneurial types in Tucson.
Well, that’s been a long time coming. Let’s see if this agency can deliver on this concern. Here’s the experience I had with ‘em:
In May 2007, I met with an EconDevAgency employee who said he could help me find contacts for my business. I’d made up an Excel spreadsheet of about 100 high tech companies, and, for me, they would have been cold calls.
The man asked me to e-mail my list to him, because, as he said, he had all sorts of contacts locally, and he could give me names at the companies on my list. That would turn my cold calls into warm calls, which are much easier to make. So, I e-mailed the file to him.
Thinking that it would take a while for him to match names with the companies, I went ahead and called the list. Can’t say that I found any juicy clients on it, but that’s par for the course in the cold-calling game.
Well, May turned into June, June turned into July, July turned into August, and you get the idea. I finally heard back from this fellow in October 2007.
He e-mailed to tell me that EconDevAgency policy forbade him from supplying me with contact names at the companies on my list. A summary of my e-mail response: “It took you five months to tell me that??” I advised him to work on the timeliness of his responses.
He replied with a half-hearted, excuse-laden e-mail, but I wasn’t buying it. I’m of the mind that if you tell someone that you’re going to do something, you get right on it and stay with it until you’re done. You don’t take five months.
And that was my one and only attempt to seek any sort of help from EconDevAgency.
“We may wake up one morning, look out at a beautiful day, put the coffee on to brew, pull up the puter, click on HBB and watch as the screen comes up blank.”
Don’t even joke about such a thing! Don’t even think about such a thing! It would be like a horrifying episode of Twilight Zone as HBB readers all over the nation wander the streets talking to ourselves about bubbles and goldbugs and Fed intervention, begging people to feed us some snippet of economic news only to have them laugh and point at us with taunts of “bitter renter” and “bubble believer” ringing in our ears.
Thanks again, as usual your writing is unique, interesting and thought-provoking!
The idea of rebuilding communities is one I hope to explore in a guest post soon.
Great idea. I think that all of us, coming together in our various earthly communities, will be what saves our society. And I think that online communities like this one also have a role to play.
Community building: I’m all for it. (Besides, being part of a community is a lot more fun than being socially isolated.)
rebuilding communities
San Diego RE Bear: I’m with Slim, I look forward to that guest post - a most interesting subject.
Ahansen is inspiring my wordsmithery. Some day I will write a best seller. She- You are definitely inspiring!
HBB readers all over the nation wander the streets talking to ourselves about bubbles and goldbugs and Fed intervention….
NOO000ooooo!!!
My check is in the mail.
I have no clue how much it costs to run a site like this..hopefully Ben gets enough to keep his head above water and some $$$ for his trouble.
I’m more concerned about what happens when the housing bubble is ‘old news’. Hopefully this can continue on as a ‘general economics/current events’ blog as long as people are willing to come and post.
Otherwise I’m going to have to find a new hobby
what happens when the housing bubble is ‘old news’.
WHEN could that possibly be? So far, many of us have been here for 3,4,5 + yrs and counting. Is it ever going to be over?
Actually, this ensemble of interesting posters is keeping us all sane.
don’t gooooooooooooooooooo.
Just donated $100. Thanks for saving me a few ben.
Same here, thanks Ben for all your diligent work.
The dark matter of productivity gains during a recession can be described in two parts:
1) Those who don’t step up their efforts to produce more and faster and work longer and harder get shown the door.
2) Those who do step up their efforts not only are likely to be the younger, more capable workers with fewer outside commitments (i.e., 80 hour work week? No problemo…) but also tend to be intimidateable into stepping up their efforts.
Just remember these three magic words, and you will be just fine:
ARBEIT MACHT FREI
“Those who do step up their efforts not only are likely to be the younger, more capable workers with fewer outside commitments (i.e., 80 hour work week? No problemo…) but also tend to be intimidateable into stepping up their efforts.”
This is where illegal alien labor really comes in handy for these greedy pigs. Who’s going to step out of line when you hang the threat of firing/arrest/deportation over their head?
A Cambodian friend of mine at CalTrans was in Pol Pot’s re-education program. People from the cities were driven into the countryside to learn a new way of life: “The hoe is your pencil, and the fields your University.”