November 14, 2009

If Something’s Missing, It Doesn’t Sell

The Santa Fe Reporter from New Mexico. “Kaziah Mraz, 34, has done everything society expects of a responsible citizen. She works full time, while attending college, raising two children, paying off a mortgage and trying to maintain her credit score. And yet when she hit a rough spot, society—represented by the New Mexico Human Services Department—told her it couldn’t help. When she broke into tears, society had a security guard escort her away.”

“Gross pay: $2,300 a month. Take-home pay: $1,800 a month. Mortgage payment: $1,480. That leaves $340 a month to feed herself, two kids and a Chihuahua, gas up her ’94 Toyota and keep the lights on.”

“‘I pretty much hit my breaking point,’ Mraz says. ‘I’m not trying to take advantage of the system; I just want some help while I get through this situation. At this point, if I was 30 pounds skinnier, I would go to Albuquerque and strip.’”

The Denver Post in Colorado. “The Residences at the Ritz-Carlton downtown are in foreclosure after the developer sold only one of the 25 units in the luxury condo community. A team led by Charlie Biederman oversaw the $75 million redevelopment of the property, which opened with fanfare early last year. But only one of the condos sold since presales started three years ago, forcing the property, including its gym, into foreclosure.”

“The lender on the residences, Goldman Sachs, is taking the property back and is attempting to reposition the condominiums. Goldman Sachs has upgraded the interiors of the units. It has also reduced prices on the units, which range from 1,140 to 5,550 square feet. Initially priced from $800,000 to $4 million, the units now are priced from $500,000 to $3 million.”

“A questionable location across from the Greyhound Bus station and the lack of balconies made it difficult to sell the condos, said Dee Chirafisi, a broker who had the units listed for about a year. ‘There’s a lot of competition in the luxury market,’ Chirafisi said. ‘People for 2 1/2 years have been extremely picky. Even with the quality and luxurious finishes and the Ritz-Carlton brand, if something’s missing, it doesn’t sell.’”

The Aspen Times in Colorado. “Workers looking to gain a foothold in Aspen are helping keep one piece of the local real estate market booming — affordable housing. Prospective buyers include individuals who own free-market housing downvalley, but are employed in Pitkin County and looking to move to Aspen, according to Cindy Christensen, housing operations manager. The hurdle for them is selling their free-market home in a depressed market — they have six months after they close on their worker unit to do so.”

“‘There are people out there who want our housing so bad, they price their free-market [place] to sell it,’ Christensen said.”

“Even though the housing authority essentially guarantees the loan on a worker unit — the agency has the right of first refusal to buy a unit in foreclosure and must do so to keep the deed restriction on the unit in place — lenders are skittish, she said. ‘The biggest problem is all the banks have to work with underwriters outside of Colorado, and they don’t get it,’ Christensen said.”

The Post Independent in Colorado. “A proposed development in Spring Valley, which has been on the local governmental radar screen for decades, is expected to go before Garfield County in December to file the final, formal documents for Phase I of the multi-phase project. Some version of the Spring Valley Ranch development has been in the works for three decades.”

“According to county records, Spring Valley Ranch saw its first attempts at development in 1977, by a partnership of local investors and one in Chicago. The next formal applications were filed in 1984 for Chenoa, an upscale housing development of 2,750 homes, a 150,000-square-foot ‘village center,’ and two 18-hole golf courses.”

“By 2003 the project was again known as Spring Valley Ranch, and by 2005 it had been downsized to 577 homes and 20,000 square feet of commercial space anchored by the two golf courses. It has been through a series of ownership changes over the years, that have included at different times a group of Saudi Arabian investors and, more recently, the Lehman Brothers investment banking firm, which went bankrupt last year.”

The Grand Junction Free Press. “A steep hike in the regional unemployment rate helped push apartment vacancies to the highest level in more than four years, state housing data showed Thursday. The vacancy rate for multifamily units in the Grand Junction market skyrocketed to 7.5 percent in third quarter ending Sept. 30. That was up from 2.4 percent in the same three months of 2008, the Colorado Division of Housing reported.”

“The regional jobless rate was up more than 4 percent in the same one-year period. ‘For the last several years the vacancy rate and the unemployment rate are tracking very similarly,’ said Gordon E. Von Stroh of the University of Denver, who authored and researched the report. ‘When unemployment goes up, vacancies go up. That is what happened in Grand Junction and in the Grand Valley.’”

The Arizona Daily Sun. “Local homebuyers last month found bargains in foreclosed and other types of distressed property. The median price among distressed homes was $35,000 less than among non-distressed properties — yet the former was 5 percent larger in square footage. For all homes sold in Flagstaff in October — distressed and non-distressed — the median price was $300,000, about equal to last month but down $32,000 from the same month a year ago.”

“Steve Brighton, a Realtor with Century 21 Flagstaff Realty, said the deals on distressed homes boosted overall sales in October to 87, the highest number for the month since 2005, when 94 single-family homes were sold. ‘That is what moving the market right now,’ Brighton said. ‘There are fire-sale prices out there right now.’”

The Arizona Republic. “Home-resale figures for October in the Valley show unseasonably high sales volume, but most of the activity was driven by foreclosures and distress sales, according to a report from Arizona State University. ‘Between foreclosures and resales of recently foreclosed homes in October, ‘foreclosure-related activity represented 66 percent of the recorded activity,’ said ASU realty-studies director Jay Butler.”

“The median price for a single-family Valley home in October was $140,000, down 20 percent from the October 2008 median price of $175,000. Butler said significant recovery in the housing market still appears to be some distance away despite the federal government’s recent decision to extend the first-time homebuyers’ income-tax credit.”

“Usually, housing recovery happens in conjunction with a growing economy and declining interest rates, Butler said. ‘However, the current economic recovery is limited with the possibility of higher rates and a continuing weak job market,’ he said.”

“Real estate used to be all about location. Now it’s all about jobs. ‘The 800-pound gorilla is job creation,’ said Steven Tanger, president and chief executive office of Tanger Factory Outlet Centers, speaking at a conference of the National Association of Real Estate Investment Trusts.”

“Jerry Davis, UDR’s senior vice president of property operations…described metro Phoenix as the weakest of the 20 metro areas where UDR has apartments. He predicts Southern California will be weakest next year. UDR’s Valley apartment complexes are relatively upscale, especially its new Stadium Village complex in Surprise, and higher-end apartments are faring better, Davis said. Soft housing prices have discouraged apartment dwellers from leaving to buy homes.”

“‘A lot of people want to make sure prices have bottomed,’ Davis said. ‘Nobody wants to catch a falling knife.’”

From AZ Biz. “Considering the state of the economy in general and real estate in particular, 2010 might not seem to be the optimal year to become president of the National Association of Realtors. But that’s not the way Tucson Realtor Vicki Cox Golder sees it. Which is good because she was installed Nov. 12 as the new president.”

“‘When a market is strong, anybody can be a leader then. But when it is not strong, you have to develop creative solutions and programs,’ Golder said prior to leaving for her installation in San Diego. ‘I’m on the street and see it every day, that gives me excellent insight. I bring in a perspective others don’t have. I understand the market stress and strains and that will help me educate and move members along.’”

“One of her priorities is to increase political influence of the National Association of Realtors — the nation’s largest trade association — at the federal, state and local levels through lobbying. Embracing an ‘On the Rise’ theme, Golder is upbeat about leading the 1.2 million member organization.”

“‘On the Rise’ is more than just a theme. It’s an attitude, a positive outlook, a belief that we can strengthen our markets, our industry and our businesses,’ Golder said in her speech to inagural attendees. ‘It is a statement that real estate is moving, accelerating toward a prosperous time.’”

The Las Vegas Sun in Nevada. “The 30 percent drop in condo prices at CityCenter is going to cost Realtors in commissions. Bob Hamrick, CityCenter’s broker, met with about 70 preferred agents (those who have had a sale) Nov. 6 at the development to inform them about the new commission strategy and give them a tour.”

“When CityCenter cut its prices by a half-billion dollars to help buyers close on the condos, Hamrick says it was only natural that commissions be cut as well. So far, 95 percent of the 227 units at Mandarin Oriental have been sold. Two-thirds of the 670 units at Veer have been sold and just under 50 percent of the 1,543 units at Vdara have been sold, Hamrick says. Closings tentatively start Jan. 1 at Mandarin Oriental, Feb. 1 at Veer and March 1 at Vdara.”

“Despite the price drop, an attorney representing some prospective buyers says the cuts don’t ‘reflect market realities,’ and they are unwilling to accept that offer and want even more cuts. He also says CityCenter is requiring buyers to give up legal rights despite the construction problems that plagued the project.”

“‘Given the realities of the market, and issues with this project specifically,’ MGM’s offer to reduce prices by 30 percent is woefully inadequate,’ says Mark Cannot, an attorney with Hutchison & Steffen. ‘MGM has recently taken a write-down of well over 30 percent of the value of its interest in CityCenter, yet has only offered a 30 percent reductions to purchasers of condos in CityCenter.’”

“Homebuilders and Realtors are counting (on) an extension and expansion of a homebuyer tax credit to boost to the housing market through mid-2010. ‘The credit has definitely impacted positively our home sales in Southern Nevada,’ said Monica Caruso, Southern Nevada Home Builders Association spokeswoman. ‘We are usually not amenable to government intervention. However, in this case it has worked, and for an industry devastated by the economic conditions, it is a short-term boost for the industry. But what we really need to see are some long-term improvements.’”

“Dennis Smith, Home Builders Research president…won’t call the continuation of the tax credits a cure-all for the housing market. The best cure is jobs, he said. ‘We still have problems with foreclosures,’ Smith said. ‘How does this help people stay out of foreclosure? It doesn’t do anything for that.’”

“In October, the Realtors group reported 3,535 single-family home sales, a 5.3 percent increase over September when 3,358 homes sold. Median prices rose 1 percent to $139,100, the highest since July’s $138,800. Sales of condos and town houses fell 1 percent in October to 850, but median prices rose 6.5 percent from $65,720 to $70,000, the group reported.”

“It credits investors and first-time buyers for boosting demand for homes. Cash buyers accounted for 42 percent of home sales in October. The sales of foreclosed homes declined in October, falling to 64.5 percent of the total. It was 67 percent in September. The Realtors’ group tracks sales only on the MLS. It reported 20,998 homes are listed at the end of October, about 1 percent higher than September. It said 8,075 homes are listed without offers, a 2 percent increase over September.”

“In October 5,482 homes were new listings, an 11 percent increase over September.”




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107 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-11-14 09:51:59

‘SunCal Cos. bought 1,072 finished and partially finished residential lots spread across 11 Kimball Hill Homes’ communities throughout Las Vegas and Henderson for $20 million, or an average of $18,727 per lot.’

Here’s one for you congress; these guys are going to use these reduced prices to undercut the market even further. The longer you “prop up prices” the more this will occur.

Everything DC is doing will only create more foreclosures. It’s all on you Washington.

Comment by scdave
2009-11-14 10:44:36

Ben…Sweet post…You should send this to every representative in DC…At these lot prices I suspect they are going to be able to deliver finished product under $100k…How does the resale market OR the REO’s compete with that…

Comment by mikey
2009-11-14 13:20:55

Yeah…great post Ben.

“‘On the Rise’ is more than just a theme. It’s an attitude, a positive outlook, a belief that we can strengthen our markets, our industry and our businesses,’ Golder said in her speech to inagural attendees. ‘It is a statement that real estate is moving, accelerating toward a prosperous time.’

Pesky icebergs be damned…Full Speed Ahead into the Night !
:)

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-11-14 17:11:24

Let’s see what happens when this idiot’s smile-the-clouds-away optimism, bordering on delusional, gets steamrollered by the economic collapse that is moving, accelerating straight towards us.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2009-11-14 15:41:33

I notice that they figure rent per sq ft per month..here in NYC its per year. so its $30+/yr compared to 5th ave at $1000+ sq ft/yr

——————————————
Cirque du Soleil signed a seven-year, $6.6 million lease for 31,049 square feet of office space inside Hughes Airport Center at 980 Kelly Johnson Drive in Las Vegas. CIP Real Estate’s Scott Flemer represented the firm as lessor; Devencore Itee’s Patric Ouelett represented the tenant. The reported average rent equals $2.53 per square foot.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-11-15 05:29:31

“Everything DC is doing will only create more foreclosures. It’s all on you Washington.”

But since so many new mortgages are govt-insured, and the govt-insurers (FHA, Fannie, Freddie, etc) have a bottomless credit line from the Treasury (aka the US taxpayer), isn’t it all good now?

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-11-14 10:19:22

Yup…she is 100% correct…..be a loser drug addict, beat the woman, be an ex-con, hear voices threaten to kill yourself and they are there to help…..but a rough patch…hellllno

———————————————
The experience taught her something, though: “The system is fucked. It’s not there to help people who are really trying to help themselves.”

Comment by oxide
2009-11-14 13:57:55

Sorry DJ, I disagree. They simply should not have bought the house.

Some vital stats:

The house cost 213,000.
She makes $26,700 in the ER. (I thought they were paid more than that?)

None of the big financial disasters have hit her:
No mention of a death in the household.
No mention of job loss.
No mention of medical events.
No mention of relocating.
She did Divorce in July but her ex moved back in to help with the bills, so I’m not sure that counts as financial disaster, unless there are steep lawyer fees.

So WHY are they in a “rough patch?” What happened? My GUESS is NEG-AM. The monhtly nut for $213K at 6% is $1277/month. Add in tax/ins/HOA, and $1800 is still too high(?). She must be paying the fully amortized amount plus the neg-am tack on neg-am.

The food stamp criteria are probably calculated on the quaint assumption of 28% gross on housing. For her, that $700/month. If she rented at $700 as she should have, the gov is right, she makes too much for food stamps.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-11-14 15:46:51

well that is the ultimate question …do we kick people like this out and tell them to rent and let the home go into foreclosure or do we help for a year?

Or just adviser her to quit paying the mortgage pay down her debt, and stay there till the sheriff has a court order to lock up the place?

Its going to cost us $$$ anyway we turn, so which do you prefer?

Comment by oxide
2009-11-14 19:34:05

Again, it depends on the “rough spot.” If the problem is temporary, like a job loss or medical, yes, try to help them for a year until their income stream recovers. But — and I repeat my question — income recovers from WHAT? It looks to me like their income is as high as it ever was.

If the problem is what I’m guessing — neg-am payment went up — then they will be struggling like this for the next 27 years, digging deeper into a hole each month. Should taxpayers support her until she is no longer underwater on the house…15 years? If she forecloses and BK’s and rents, she could be out of trouble in 4-5 years. She can use her wages to buy things and support the rest of the economy.

But at the moment, her hard-fought wages are being wasted on feeding an the black hole of an interest payment. Instead of using her wages to buy things and support the rest of the economy, she is only changing a number in a computer somewhere.

Main Street folks work very hard — physically — for their wages, but that labor disappears as easily as the phantom money that was created in the bubble. No wonder J6P is pissed off.

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Comment by In Montana
2009-11-14 19:38:47

She should help herself and not pay the mortgage.

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Comment by az_lender
2009-11-14 19:34:46

I agree with oxide, shouldna bought the house, shouldna taken neg-am loan. I despise her attitude that she is one of the people “really trying to help themselves.” They were just trying to borrow their way to prosperity and make OUR housing unaffordable while they were at it. She gets the full brunt of my anger because she is such an idiot that she STILL doesn’t see her own part in creating the problem. “The system” should take care of it? Not.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-11-14 22:50:05

AZ, Oxide:

good points that’s why we are so addicted to Ben’s blog, I look at myself and there is no way i could have lived this long on so little unless i was frugal as my mom and was taught how to fix things by my father. Had a big DeWalt saw and a workshop in the basement.

Yes people were seriously stupid in “buying” a house at any cost, and the whole industry was there to get them off the fence.

But now its clean up time, and the money is not flowing anywhere near people like me who didn’t have anything to do with the mess. Yes i am just as ticked off as you AZ i wish i had a FB landlord so i could skip out on rent for a year.

Mine has lived here 45 years its paid off and the rent is under market.

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Comment by sf jack
2009-11-14 14:00:35

Answer to Mraz’ nightmares and dreams?

RENTING.

 
Comment by holytrainwreck
2009-11-14 17:10:26

I read that part right away in the New Mexico article. Good for posting that.

 
 
Comment by bink
2009-11-14 10:29:01

Speaking of Vegas, is it time for another HBB meetup yet?

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-11-14 10:35:25

Most of the questions I get about that are from people in your area bink. Maybe that should be the next meetup?

Comment by scdave
2009-11-14 10:47:40

Atlantic City ??

 
Comment by bink
2009-11-14 10:49:24

I’m kinda scared to see who would show up to a DC meetup. We could play “spot the Fed” or “spot the economist” like they do at Defcon.

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-11-14 10:52:53

Is there a tiki room in DC? I hear there are some great beer places there. We could invite all those economists from the lobby groups; MBA, wall street.

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Comment by bink
2009-11-14 11:52:20

There used to be a tiki room a few blocks from my house, but it closed down a few years back.

I think Politiki’s and Island Jim’s are gone now too, not that I’d recommend either of those. We have fewer Tiki bars in DC than we have fiscal sense.

 
Comment by sf jack
2009-11-14 13:56:56

You’ll want to go here for beer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brickskeller

 
Comment by In Montana
2009-11-14 19:40:03

ok wha is a tiki room? One of those bars where they make the fancy Polynesion drinks like mai tais? Mmmm, I could go for that.

 
Comment by In Montana
2009-11-14 19:46:30

wha…I mean WHAT..seriously, I’m not drunk {hic}..

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2009-11-14 19:50:54

From the infamous HBB sidetrip at the Vegas meetup in February:

‘Frankie’s Tiki Room is a unique combination of south seas exotica and modern primitivism, with just a hint of Las Vegas kitsch. One hundred percent original and deeply rooted in tiki tradition, Frankie’s is the place where you can escape to the fantasy any hour of the day or night. Where you can order up your buzz from the menu of exotic rum drinks in the tiki lounge, or enjoy traditional cocktails while gambling at the bar in classic Las Vegas style.’

‘Many of the top artists in the world had a hand in creating Frankie’s unique vibe. This remarkable combination of traditional carvings and lowbrow art, along with a soundtrack which bounces from exotica & surf to grind & garage …… makes Frankie’s Tiki Room an amazing one of a kind experience. This bar will absolutely blow your mind.’

http://www.frankiestikiroom.com/

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-11-15 02:04:56

You told us it was supposed to be a secret, Ben! ;)

 
Comment by davis_dave
2009-11-15 11:23:22

if you like tasty rum drinks, i recommend this book of potions…Beachbum Berry’s Grog Log. One of my favorites is the hurricane…or as i call it, the slurrrrricane:^)

 
 
Comment by oxide
2009-11-14 13:15:44

Ack! Wait two months…

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Comment by DD
2009-11-14 14:30:16

January?

 
Comment by oxide
2009-11-14 15:55:31

I hope so.

 
 
Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-11-14 15:29:19

About a 90% chance I will be in DC the weekend of 6/25-6/27 and will have lots of free time. It’s a ways off, but will pass really quickly if there’s any chance anyone else would be willing to come in that weekend. I think I can drag CA renter kicking and screaming onto a plane (ok, big maybe) and PB as an educator has an obligation to take the family to our capital at some point.

I think a DC meetup would be great. All the sights are free and we could stage a mini-protest where it might be effective. Plus, we could write Ron Paul to see if he’d be in town and willing to meet with us. (Long shot I know, but sometimes you are pleasantly surprised by an unexpected yes just by asking.)

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Comment by Ben Jones
2009-11-14 18:38:57

‘in DC the weekend of 6/25-6/27′

Let’s plan on it then; sounds good to me!

 
Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-11-14 18:56:08

“Let’s plan on it then; sounds good to me!”

This doesn’t get you out of coming back to San Diego!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-11-14 20:13:03

A proper DC HBB meetup should feature tours of Fannie Mae, the Federal Reserve, the Treasury and other enablers of the housing bubble, no?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-11-14 20:16:52
 
Comment by DD
2009-11-14 22:26:17

HECK HBB could do some serious lobbying.
Heck get in on the action.

Practice your lying, thieving, and chicanery.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-11-15 02:07:14

I’d love to go to D.C. in June! :)

 
Comment by Cassandra
2009-11-15 22:14:47

Chicanery?

I’m in.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Real Estate Refugee
2009-11-14 10:58:38

‘That is what moving the market right now,’ Brighton said. ‘There are fire-sale prices out there right now.’

Reminds me of one of those “going out of business” carpet sales.

Buy now at these rock bottom prices or be priced out foreeeveeerrrr.

Let’s revisit this one next November.

Comment by Mugsy
2009-11-14 11:33:33

So “fire sale” prices in Flagstaff are $300,000? Guess the ski resort business and truck stops along I-40 are packed with people whose millions are burning a hole in their pocket.

I’d buy there but I just picked up some “fire sale” properties in Bullhead City. Hey, stop laughing! EVERYBODY wants to live there!

Comment by DD
2009-11-14 14:31:21

Bullhead City

Aaaack.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-11-14 15:51:45

wasn’t that were giant Gila Monsters terrorized the city? or was that some other lonely desert town on route 66?

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Comment by DD
2009-11-14 22:27:44

Amboy is still okay via route 66, but Gila monsters.. under rocks now- too cold in desert nights. Same as in BH.

 
 
Comment by holytrainwreck
2009-11-14 17:30:57

That’s like Lake Havasu City. Middle of a nowhere desert, greasy spoon truck stops, and firesale prices!

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Comment by Lisa
2009-11-14 11:26:12

‘Is the so-called ’shadow inventory’ of foreclosed properties going to flood the market or will the financial institutions be able to manage a measured release of properties to prop up prices?’”

Lots of press these days about trying to prop up prices, all the way to Barney Frank’s quote that all those bad GSE loans being “worth it” to slow the rate of price declines.

First time buyers and investors can only keep the market going for so long. I’m guessing most of the bubble buyers are sufficiently under-water to either have to stay put in their current house or walk away with their credit ruined for the next few years.

Comment by octal77
2009-11-14 12:20:45


…measured release of properties…

But to do so would require all the banks to march
to the same drumbeat.

In other words, I have often wondered how long it will
be before some bank [probably one of the smaller ones]
who holds bad loans but never took TARP $$$ cries Uncle
and just dumps properties on the market?

Is anyone aware of this occuring yet?

I live in Orange County (Ca.) and so far I just haven’t seen
any effort by any of the local banks (large or small) to
dump on the market. Yet, the total number of distressed
properties is much larger than what is published on the MLS.

Perhaps there is some sort of FASB accounting rule that
either discourages or masks from public view this practice?

Comment by Lisa
2009-11-14 12:55:40

“…measured release of properties…But to do so would require all the banks to march to the same drumbeat.”

If we see another leg down next year & unemployment continues to rise, why would the banks want a measured release of properties? Foreclose in 2010 or hold off until 2011 when the house is worth even less and there are fewer interested/qualified buyers?

At some point, the game’s up. I think the real fun begins in 2010. The problem that ails housing is just to massive to prop up.

Comment by oxide
2009-11-14 14:07:18

And this is what frightens me politically. I don’t think the Dems are going to lose Congress in 2010, but if things don’t pick up by 2010, the Teabagger Queen herself will be in the White House, and who knows what will happen then. The Republicans can’t rely on a Reagan-esqe turnaround based on running up the deficit. That card has been played.

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Comment by DD
2009-11-14 14:35:16

herself will be in the White House,

Do you have any proof or info proving this? Are YOU the one that took the HBB crystal ball?

 
Comment by oxide
2009-11-14 17:11:34

Just being pessimistic.

As I told my friends, I’m not worried about the heads in Palin’s airspace, I’m worried about the airspace in Palin’s head.

 
Comment by DD
2009-11-14 22:28:56

airspace in Palin’s head.

Earth to mars, Earth to mars, outer galaxy?

Houston,we have a problem here.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-11-15 05:44:32

Well the last time I tried out my crystal ball here on politics, I recall saying somthing along the lines of “Barak Obama will become president only if somebody assinates president Clinton.”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-11-15 06:00:45

“…Teabagger Queen herself…”

That is a very unkind nickname for Hillbilly.

You were talking about Hillbilly Clinton, weren’t you?

 
Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2009-11-15 07:56:52

Yeah, the “Teabagger Queen herself” can never match the proven and documented sexual misconduct (Cigar, anyone? This is my own special blend, I call it ‘The Monica’) and perjury of The Democratic Icon, Slick Willy Clinton… I bet you’d be proud to have your daughter dating him, huh? Do you have any proof of your “Teabagger” claim or is that just slanderous babble?

 
Comment by B. Durbin
2009-11-15 16:14:12

A couple of ill-informed Tea Party protesters had “Tea Bag” signs at an early protest. Naturally, the term was picked up and used in a derogatory fashion for the whole movement. So “Teabagger” is still derogatory but is not meant to imply that someone so called actually performs that practice, FWIW.

Personally, I dislike use of derogatory terms on any side, aside from non-partisan ones such as “idiotarian.” Ad hominem is a logical fallacy for a reason.

 
 
 
Comment by DD
2009-11-14 14:33:47

Yet, the total number of distressed
properties is much larger than what is published on the MLS.

Completely agreed. So many addresses do not show up at all, but you drive by and you see tumbleweeds blowing in and around the properties, grass all dried up, trees dead, and cobwebs like you wouldn’t believe. Just not in MLS.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-11-15 05:54:08

“But to do so would require all the banks to march
to the same drumbeat.

In other words, I have often wondered how long it will
be before some bank [probably one of the smaller ones]
who holds bad loans but never took TARP $$$ cries Uncle
and just dumps properties on the market?

Is anyone aware of this occuring yet?”

In music, it typically requires a conductor to get a large number of individual musicians to play in synchronized rhythm. Coordinated intervention is similarly useful in the economic context for getting a bunch of individual firms to play the same mutually-advantageous strategy. Such collusion is used by cartels such as OPEC use to fix prices at levels above what individual oil companies in competition would set. If this happens in US domestic markets for goods and services (e.g. housing is a good if purchased or a service if rented), it is called price fixing and constitutes a violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act.

I cannot comment on whether the US banking system is engaged in collusive price fixing in the housing market or not. Perhaps Ron Paul’s proposed Fed audit could shed light, as the Fed may have obtained information through its banking regulatory role about whether price fixing is occurring in the US banking system.

Comment by B. Durbin
2009-11-15 16:18:22

Your comment brings to mind an experiment I once saw in a video where a person took a 2×4 and placed it along several tin cans so that it could rock back and forth. Then he placed several mechanical metronomes on the board and set them going at the same rate, but staggered. Pretty soon all of the metronomes were in sync, rocking the board back and forth.

No outside collusion necessary, but they all ended up in step, as it were.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-11-14 12:21:47

Missing from the list:

- Ben (”Subprime is Contained”) Bernanke
- Timothy (”How does TurboTax work?”) Geithner
- Lawrence Yun
- Foreign investors in US real estate and MBS

Also, it is dumb to blame “American consumers” IMHO. Which consumers?

25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis

The good intentions, bad managers and greed behind the meltdown

Blameworthy

1. Angelo Mozilo
2. Phil Gramm
3. Alan Greenspan
4. Chris Cox
5. American Consumers
6. Hank Paulson
7. Joe Cassano
8. Ian McCarthy
9. Frank Raines
10. Kathleen Corbet
11. Dick Fuld
12. Marion and Herb Sandler
13. Bill Clinton
14. George W. Bush
15. Stan O’Neal
16. Wen Jiabao
17. David Lereah
18. John Devaney
19. Bernie Madoff
20. Lew Ranieri
21. Burton Jablin
22. Fred Goodwin
23. Sandy Weill
24. David Oddsson
25. Jimmy Cayne

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-11-14 13:12:20

My list would have included Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Robert Rubin and Larry Summers.

Other than Sandy Weill, do we even know who those last six names are. or what they did?

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-11-14 17:47:40

Spot on. It is awfully hard to produce an all-inclusive list of the culpable, given how very very many earned the right to a place on the Housing Bubble Walk of Shame.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-11-14 20:09:44

“25. Jimmy Cayne”

I understand he is quite fond of bridge. In fact, he was busy playing in a tournament last year when the Bear went into permanent hibernation.

* Business
* Bear Stearns

Bear Stearns chairman offloads his shares for $61m

* Andrew Clark in New York
* The Guardian, Friday 28 March 2008

The chairman of Bear Stearns, Jimmy Cayne, has sold his entire stake in the troubled bank for $61.3m, in an apparent signal that he sees little hope of any improvement on JP Morgan’s $1.2bn rescue takeover bid. A filing at the Securities and Exchange Commission revealed yesterday that Cayne and his wife offloaded their 5.66m shares in the open market at a price of $10.84 each on Tuesday - a day after JP Morgan raised its offer from $2 to $10 per share.

The proceeds are meagre in comparison with the $850m the 74-year-old Wall Street veteran could once have received if he had disposed of his stock a year ago. Cayne’s personal gesture of surrender put a dampener on hopes in the market that Bear Stearns could still seal a superior deal to JP Morgan’s all-share offer. In unofficial after-hours trading, Bear’s shares slumped by 5.6% to $10.60.

Cayne, a cigar-smoking former scrap iron dealer, joined the bank in 1969 and became chief executive in 1993. He led the bank on a day-to-day basis for 15 years and shaped it into a specialist in playing the debt markets, but relinquished his role as chief executive in January when problems mounted.

He has faced criticism for being away at moments of crisis. When a run on the bank forced Bear Stearns to turn to the Federal Reserve for emergency funding two weeks ago, Cayne was playing in a competitive bridge tournament in Detroit.

Bear Stearns’ near collapse could cause him some cashflow problems. Shortly before its shares went into freefall, he committed himself to pay $28m for two apartments in New York’s Plaza hotel.

 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-11-14 20:14:49

25. Jimmy Cayne, CEO Bear Stearns, NYC brokerage, investment banking and mortgage securities.

 
Comment by Reuven
2009-11-15 07:40:07

I would have included

1. “Everyone who borrowed money for a home that they couldn’t possibly pay back”

2. RealtWhores

 
 
Comment by oxide
2009-11-14 14:19:50

Where are the ratings agencies?

And whover wrote that “good accounting practice” which says you can book profit on a fully amortized even if the FB only paid neg-am. That’s what really confused the ratings agencies.

 
Comment by DD
2009-11-14 14:37:11

Is anyone going to the Madoff Auction?

I think it is in Aspen or Vail.

Comment by DD
2009-11-14 22:30:09

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33917333/ns/business-us_business/?GT1=43001

Sale in Manhattan and some got Madoffed today BIG Time.

 
Comment by ahansen
2009-11-15 02:52:59

Re: Madoff auction. When is it? I’d consider it if I could get a few runs down Ajax out of it….

 
 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-11-14 12:30:08

“At this point, if I was 30 pounds skinnier, I would go to Albuquerque and strip.’”

Can’t believe I am the first to comment on this: as predicted on the HBB several years back. :-)

Kaziah, honey, don’t worry; it’s not _that_ hard to lose the 30lbs. Best of luck with your new career opportunities.

(Was that wrong of me?)

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-11-14 12:52:07

I want to be sympathetic here, I really do, because she seems committed to paying off her obligations instead of being flippant about the whole thing. However, she made a choice. A choice to spend 64% of her gross pay on a house she clearly can’t afford. How can you look at those numbers and think you can make it long term?

She bought into the hype of owning (and getting wealthier) like a good little human. Why else would you ignore the math above? And now she is (and the whole middle class are, as per the article) a victim? That’s where the limits of my sympathy are reached.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-11-14 13:03:21

One other thought. The elephant is so plain to see in her financial living room and yet she thinks the problem is that she can’t get “assistance.” Lose the house, and regain your life!

Comment by mikey
2009-11-14 13:54:24

And ye shall know the walk, and the walk shall make you free. (mikey 11:14)

sorry about that (John 8:32)

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Comment by DD
2009-11-14 14:40:30

LOL

Am going to write my own book with verses too!

 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2009-11-14 16:08:24

She bought into the hype of owning (and getting wealthier) like a good little human.

“Studies show that the sooner somebody buys a house, the wealthier he will be after retirement.”

I’ve heard that stat in various forms, and it’s one of the most dangerous logical fallacies out there. The obvious — and wrong — conclusion is that the house makes you wealthy. In a normal market :roll: it’s actually the opposite. If somebody buys a house early on in life, it means that his income is high enough (and he is frugal enough) to save the down payment quicker. It’s the years of higher income and frugality that make the man rich, not the house.

Comment by SGA
2009-11-14 23:05:42

Not with illegal immigrants on the low end and h-1b/guest workers on the high end. It’s almost as if they are doing everything they can to destroy opportunity in this country.

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Comment by Jim A.
2009-11-15 05:49:54

YES. Normally homeownership is advantagious only to the reasonably settled, and only availble to the reasonably thrifty. Once you start handing out mortgages to anyone for any amount, foreclosure are sure to follow.

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Comment by mikey
2009-11-14 13:27:50

She may NEED that extra 30 pounds…to beat a hungry Realtywhore(tm) OFF the Pole.

:)

 
Comment by wolfgirl
2009-11-14 14:27:49

I was thinking the same thing.

 
Comment by DD
2009-11-14 14:38:54

it’s not _that_ hard to lose the 30lbs.

In 1 month with a steel pole and high heels, those 30 will come off.

Just guessing.

Comment by mikey
2009-11-14 15:37:50

Hummm… just guessing.

lol

:)

 
Comment by oxide
2009-11-14 16:10:31

Unfortunately, the best diet food — freshly prepared vegetables and lean animal protein — is also the most expensive. The cheap food is carb-heavy.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-11-14 16:40:03

Oxide:
You made my point why not include in food stamps or OHbahma care something like the WIC program for overweight people?

If you get an EBT card its easy to separate the fruits veggies lean meat and deduct from that account separately. And junk food you must pay cash for or it gets put back on the shelf. After all it is taxpayers money. But I guess the ACLU will fight for the right to buy $50 worth of cheetos a month.

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Comment by oxide
2009-11-14 19:47:24

You answered your own question. Except, it won’t be the ACLU fighting for those rights. It would be Monsanto and ADM and the junk food and beverage makers (which is, basically, Monsanto and ADM).

I had always thought that EBT should only be accepted at a government-run store, but that would hurt the EBT’s feelings too much.

Getting WIC and EBT involved in healthy choices is starting to happen at the state level. WIC recipients get vouchers for $30 at the farmer’s market. It’s far too little, but it’s at least a start.

 
Comment by DD
2009-11-14 22:33:44

Monsanto and ADM and the junk food and beverage makers (which is, basically, Monsanto and ADM).

Who is behind all the new commercials regarding TAXING Juice Drinks… High Corn Fructose Corp MONSANTO.

“please don’t let them tax our juice drinks, our kids need them”..blah blah …as they waddle towards obesity or other health issues later in life.

 
Comment by B. Durbin
2009-11-15 16:21:03

There should be NO second word after “juice.”

 
 
Comment by DD
2009-11-14 22:31:48

The cheap food is carb-heavy.

That is why Corps have so many junk food Fast food eateries in Low Income neighborhoods and grocery stores stocked with junk/carbs.

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Comment by oxide
2009-11-15 06:31:29

It’s not just the price. Face it, junk food tastes good, very good, for biological reasons. And junk is easier to ship and store. Vegetables only taste good if you are lucky enough to get them very fresh. You have to wash them and trim them and cook them. Your lazy inner city neighbors (and yes, they are those who are too lazy to wash a veggie) would rather rip open a bag of potato chips.

I’ve always wondered what would happen if the prices were suddenly reversed: cheap veggies and expensive Little Debbie cakes. Would the poor change their eating habits on price alone? My suspicion says no.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Bad Chile
2009-11-14 17:27:08

Based on my 21st birthday celebration well over a decade ago, if she was willing to strip in Santa Fe she wouldn’t need to lose 30 pounds.

 
 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-11-14 13:05:32

“A questionable location across from the Greyhound Bus station and the lack of balconies made it difficult to sell the condos…”

I’ll bet! But those developers weren’t the only dimwits. Some group decided to put up a mixed-use building (ground-floor shops, about 10 floors of condos above) on Rt. 301 just one-half block from the Sarasota city jail. I’d love to know how brisk those sales have been. Maybe we’ll get a chance to find out when we go down there in January. Or maybe a Sarasota HBBer can tell us now.

Comment by mikey
2009-11-14 13:36:17

“Some group decided to put up a mixed-use building (ground-floor shops, about 10 floors of condos above) on Rt. 301 just one-half block from the Sarasota city jail.”

Wow… with some heavy duty fishing tackle and a $20 Bill, you could reel in some pretty lively action from the 10th floor condo.
:)

 
Comment by In Montana
2009-11-14 14:05:57

Oh but living over the store is sooo home-towny!

 
Comment by oxide
2009-11-14 14:13:45

And then Golden Sacks whined that there were no balconies. Maybe there’s a reason for that.

Comment by DD
2009-11-14 14:41:31

Maybe there’s a reason for that.

No easy jump off point. No place to make a hangman’s noose?

 
 
Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2009-11-15 08:03:33

“Initially priced from $800,000 to $4 million, the units now are priced from $500,000 to $3 million.”

“A questionable location across from the Greyhound Bus station and the lack of balconies made it difficult to sell the condos, said Dee Chirafisi, a broker who had the units listed for about a year. ‘There’s a lot of competition in the luxury market,’ Chirafisi said. ‘People for 2 1/2 years have been extremely picky. Even with the quality and luxurious finishes and the Ritz-Carlton brand, if something’s missing, it doesn’t sell.’”

Yeah, I LOVED this! Half a million for a “luxury” condo across from the Greyhound Bus station! Complete with hot-and-cold running serial killers wandering around your building, waiting for the bus. The lack of balconies was not an oversight- it was a protective measure to prevent the hordes of zombies from scaling the walls and breaking in.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-11-14 17:08:52

“Kaziah Mraz, 34, has done everything society expects of a responsible citizen. She works full time, while attending college, raising two children, paying off a mortgage and trying to maintain her credit score. And yet when she hit a rough spot, society—represented by the New Mexico Human Services Department—told her it couldn’t help.

Cry me a river. If you’re in a mortgage you can’t afford, either sell it or mail in the keys and walk away. But don’t try to shift your burdens onto the taxpayers. Responsible citizens live within their means and pay their own way.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-11-14 17:23:52

“The regional jobless rate was up more than 4 percent in the same one-year period. ‘For the last several years the vacancy rate and the unemployment rate are tracking very similarly,’ said Gordon E. Von Stroh of the University of Denver, who authored and researched the report. ‘When unemployment goes up, vacancies go up. That is what happened in Grand Junction and in the Grand Valley.’”

I’m guessing the journalist who said unemployment was ‘up more than 4 percent’ doesn’t understand the basic high school arithmetic concept of percentage increase. For instance, national unemployment went from around 5 percent to over 10 percent in a one-year period of time. This doubling of the unemployment is not a ‘5 percent increase’ in unemployment but rather a 100 percent increase (i.e. twice as high now as before unemployment rocketed up).

 
Comment by 2banana
2009-11-14 17:45:34

“‘I pretty much hit my breaking point,’ Mraz says. ‘I’m not trying to take advantage of the system; I just want some help while I get through this situation. At this point, if I was 30 pounds skinnier, I would go to Albuquerque and strip.’”

Why do many women think they need to prostitute themselves in order to “save the house?” Walk away and rent. It is only a house!!! A bunch of 2×4s and sheet rock. Why the emotion?

Comment by DD
2009-11-14 22:36:58

Why the emotion?

Socialized since birth. Tv - msm- parental observance.
I mean really IF you had PamAnderson as your mom.. wouldn’t you think men/daddy would all be like kidrock? or whats his sex videoname?

See, then you have rihanna who let her boyfriend beat her and girls see that as okay.
Granted, not many girls, but it is out there on TV. Music videos.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-11-14 22:49:49

She said “strip,” which does not necessarily mean prostitution (unless pole dancing fits your definition of “prostitute,” taken as a verb).

Anyway, it sounds like a weight loss diet might help both her monthly food budget and her chances of making extra dough as a stripper.

 
 
Comment by Don't Know Nothin About Buyin No House
2009-11-14 19:56:56

Tucson is not exactly real estate haute couture in which to locate the next NAR pres to lead a thriving industry. The pick from such an obscure market says it all.

Disclaimer: Tucson, heart of the Sonoran desert, is one of the most beautiful places I have ever lived.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-11-14 22:47:52

“Kaziah Mraz, 34, has done everything society expects of a responsible citizen. She works full time, while attending college, raising two children, paying off a mortgage and trying to maintain her credit score.”

Let me guess — she is a single mom, single-handedly trying to raise her kids, go to college and hold down a full-time job.

Is this really what society expects of people? When did society turn into a model of collective stupidity?

Comment by CA renter
2009-11-15 02:23:22

Is this really what society expects of people? When did society turn into a model of collective stupidity?
—————–

Does she have much of a choice?

And for people saying her $1400-ish mortgage payment is too much, with two teenage sons, how much do you think she would have to pay in rent for an apartment? I’m guessing the price/rent ratio is okay, but she is making too little money and/or her housing costs are too high.

What we, as a society, fail to acknowledge is that we are socialized to pay way too much for housing — whether it’s rented or purchased. Everything is geared toward forcing us to overpay for housing. How can we change this mindset? While we bubblesitters agree that housing costs are too high, everybody else is out there bidding things up. What are some possible solutions to the real crisis: lack of affordable housing? (because idiots/the least responsible set the price for housing)

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-11-15 03:04:06

Well should she move into a 1 bedroom rental for $800 and have the 2 teenage sons share the double bed in the pull out couch?

with two teenage sons

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-11-15 05:25:29

“Does she have much of a choice?”

I agree we all generally pay too much for housing, thanks to the bubble.

But you and I both know that (1) it is each (reasonable) individual American adult’s choice whether to “go it alone” as a single head of household, and expect to somehow raise the kids, obtain a college education and hold down a full-time job at the same time (???) or to share living expenses and juggle schedules with a committed partner (spouse, soulmate, whatever) and (2) she could have in all likelihood rented for less.

Comment by CA renter
2009-11-16 01:00:16

I didn’t read the full article, so when I think of a single mom, I tend to think of a woman whose husband left for a younger/more attractive gal (stereotypes, my bad).

There are many, many single parents (both male and female) who didn’t choose that path initially. My heart goes out to them. It can’t be easy.

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Comment by Reuven
2009-11-15 07:41:38

She could stop going to college and take a second job. $500 more / month should make a real difference for her.

 
 
Comment by Reuven
2009-11-15 07:36:30

” “Kaziah Mraz, 34, has done everything society expects of a responsible citizen. She works full time, while attending college, raising two children, paying off a mortgage and trying to maintain her credit score. And yet when she hit a rough spot, society—represented by the New Mexico Human Services Department—told her it couldn’t help”

Responsible citizens now include single moms who have children out-of-wedlock not once, but twice, that they can’t afford to take care of.

And if she didn’t have the two children, her body may have been good enough to make a living as a stripper.

 
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