December 7, 2009

Back On The Bandwagon And Hoping For More Of The Same

The Billings Gazette reports from Montana. “Subprime loans were invented for people with bad credit by people who needed a supposedly safe haven for a worldwide glut of investment dollars. When the ‘no credit, no job, no problem’ housing scheme inevitably collapsed, Montana largely escaped the fallout, but not completely. Dean Luptak, president of Coldwell Banker The Brokers in Billings and Red Lodge, said anyone with a heartbeat could get a home loan during the bubble days. ‘You were afraid to let your dog out in the morning. He might come back with a mortgage,’ he said, repeating a popular joke from Phoenix.”

“The gap between income and housing costs here remains relatively large. Montanans earned $34,644 per capita income last year, the 39th lowest in the country. This market has a 48-month supply of homes $600,000 and higher, so the ‘ladder up’ tax credit is needed to move some of the more expensive homes, Luptak said. But that benefit seems illusive.”

“‘So far, the sellers either bought in the same price range, a lateral move, or they are still sitting on the sidelines. Rentals are tight because there are people who can’t afford housing or decide not to buy,’ he said.”

The Associated Press . “For Dallas retiree Richard Snyder, the thrill of his central Idaho getaway is gone. Snyder built his 3,500-square-foot vacation retreat at Tamarack Resort four years ago, in an era marked by frenetic construction and new lifts whisking skiers to the 7,660-foot summit. This week, he learned the lifts will be idle this winter - another casualty of the deepest recession since the Great Depression.”

“‘It’s gone from, ‘I can’t wait to get out there, it’s so great,’ to ‘Why go?’ Snyder said.”

“In a sign of just how far it’s fallen, Tamarack has become a target for bargain hunters. One chalet that sold for $900,000 in 2005 recently changed hands for just $200,000. David Bell, from suburban Chicago…bought his Tamarack townhome in 2006. Bell mothballed his place when skiing ended last March; he won’t return this winter, not without the lifts running.”

“‘There are not enough amenities to make it worthwhile,’ he said. ‘We’re fundamentally hunkering down.’”

From Time Magazine. “The Obama Administration is gearing up to play hardball with mortgage companies that only temporarily lower struggling homeowners’ monthly payments. The problem the Administration is out to tackle is related to the structure of the Home Affordable Modification Program (HAMP). The first three months of a mortgage rewrite are something of a probation period— and very few homeowners are making it out of that trial. More than 650,000 borrowers have been placed in trial modifications, but as of September, fewer than 2,000 had become permanent.”

“According to a recent analysis by the credit bureau Experian and the consultancy Oliver Wyman, nearly 600,000 borrowers might have intentionally defaulted on their mortgages in 2008, twice as many as the year before. The other big gap in HAMP is the way it deals with— or fails to deal with — people who wouldn’t be in a position to keep their houses even with a modification. Emily Jones, a manager at Neighborhood Housing Services in Boise, Idaho, says about half of all people who walk into her housing-counseling agency fall into that camp.”

“‘The goal isn’t to keep the home in every situation,’ she says. ‘The goal is to avoid foreclosure, and in a lot of situations, it’s not in the client’s best interest to try to keep the home and only postpone the inevitable.’”

The Bend Bulletin in Oregon. “Reflecting sour labor market data and the sluggish pace of residential housing construction, the Central Oregon Business Index declined to 110.3 in the third quarter that ended Sept. 30. It’s the 12th consecutive quarterly decline for the index. The index peaked at 175.3 in third quarter 2006. University of Oregon economist Timothy Duy, who authors the index for The Bulletin, said Central Oregon is potentially faced with the prospect of a weak recovery as it recalibrates its economy, one that is less dependent on housing. High unemployment rates could continue as a result, he said.”

“Duy cautions that despite the region’s attractiveness, any notion that the region can return to its pre-bubble growth is misplaced. ‘To re-create the same kind of economic environment seen in the middle of this decade requires a set of conditions that I don’t think are going to return, and consequently, you can’t base your identity and plan your economy off of that dynamic,’ Duy said. ‘It’s likely gone and not going to come back, so you have to get back to how you see the economy transition to some other dynamic, and take a different view of what kind of economy can we support.’”

“‘(Central Oregon) has gone through this massive psychological blow, and the challenge is to reconnect people’s reality with expectations,’ Duy said. ‘For a town in the middle of nowhere with no transportation hubs, it’s done remarkably well … but the growth path of this decade was not sustainable.’”

The Oregonian. “One year ago, Portland real estate consultant Jerry Johnson stood before a room of home builders anxious to know when housing prices would strike bottom. About September, he had predicted, a median price of $261,000 would be the market’s bottom. That would have been 14 percent off the boom-time peak of $302,000.”

“On Wednesday, Johnson revised his view in a speech to the same home builders. Just slightly. Home prices, he now believes, will tumble to about $230,000 — down 24 percent from their peak — before climbing out of the recession. ‘We didn’t expect it would be as bad as it got,’ Johnson said after his annual presentation to the Home Builders Association of Metropolitan Portland.”

“What changed in a year? Job losses and depressed consumer confidence, Johnson said. The region lost 60,000 jobs in just one year. Based on Portland’s historic trends, Johnson said homes are about 6 percent overpriced and he expects those losses to wash through the market quickly. But he cautioned that could change if banks flood the for-sale market with bargain-priced foreclosured homes and the unemployment rate pushes yet higher.”

“With most of his audience worried about the suburbs, Johnson gave a blunt and brief overview of the condo market (the all caps are his): ‘CONDO MARKET DEAD UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE.’”

The Daily Journal of Commerce in Oregon. “Gerding Edlen’s creed of 20-minute living was exemplified in Cyan/PDX. The building, which offers modest-sized apartments near Portland State University and alternative transportation, was designed to show that people can live small and sustainably, while enjoying the perks of an urban setting. Developer Mark Edlen still believes in the 20-minute neighborhood, but his dream of replicating multifamily, urban infill projects within Portland is on hold.”

“‘We saw a downturn coming (before the recession),’ Edlen says. ‘We just didn’t see how deep it would be and how large an impact it would have across our economy. I don’t think I’m the only one surprised by the depth and breadth of this downturn.’”

“When it became apparent in 2008 that condos weren’t selling, Gerding Edlen decided to convert Cyan/PDX from condos to apartments. On Nov. 20, Behringer Harvard Multifamily OP I LP entered into an agreement to purchase the 352-unit apartment building for $65 million, according to documents filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.”

“The potential sale was a surprise to Cyan resident Nyco Herzog, but she said she has seen signs over the last year that Gerding Edlen’s vision for the project wasn’t going to develop. ‘It feels like any other apartment building,’ Herzog said. ‘They used to have movies on Friday nights, and they stopped doing those. The only people in the common areas are college kids. The staff does a great job, but I don’t think it has become a community.’”

“The slow trickle of incoming tenants, Herzog said, could have something to do with a lack of tenant participation in her community. When she and her husband moved into the building in May, Herzog said it was ‘dark and depressing’ and mostly empty. ‘There are more people on the floors now and the garage is full of cars,’ Herzog said. ‘But I think because they had such a hard time leasing it, the ideal hasn’t realized itself.’”

The Olympian in Washington. “The median sales price of a Thurston County home fell to the lowest point of the year in November, down 6.23 percent since January 2009 and down 8.87 percent since November 2008, according to Northwest MLS data. Real-estate agent Mark Kitabayashi thinks there won’t be price appreciation until the foreclosure problem bottoms out, and another wave of foreclosures could be on the way, he said. Thurston County Realtors Association president Mark Steves agreed Thursday, saying another batch of adjustable-rate mortgages, in which mortgage interest rates adjust higher, could come in 2010 or 2011.”

“It’s going to take a while,’ Steves said about a return to price appreciation.”

Tacoma Weekly in Washington. “Drastic changes in the housing market have caused Real Estate Investment Services (REIS) to alter some of its business practices, while also opening up opportunities to expand. Husband and wife team Greg and Darcy Dullum manage the Gig Harbor office, which opened in August. The Dullums were investors, operating their own real estate company for about seven years. They closed it down and opened the new REIS branch in the same office.”

“They were buying houses and selling them at a profit until the market took a downturn. They found themselves having to rent houses they owned from Bremerton to Chehalis. ‘Things have worked out good,’ Darcy said. ‘Debbi has helped us learn property management.’”

From Bloomberg. “Bank of Canada Governor Mark Carney’s pledge to freeze record-low borrowing costs through June may be raising the chances of a bubble in home prices even as it helps the economy recover from its first recession in 17 years. Sales of existing houses rose 74 percent in October from the January low, with prices up 21 percent from a year ago to a record C$341,079 ($323,203), partly because of Carney’s promise.”

“Carney’s situation reflects the conundrum faced by policy makers who must weigh the trade-off between stimulating their economies now with ultra-low rates and dealing later with the fallout from unintended consequences. ‘It is time to break the daisy chain of asset and credit bubbles and the global imbalances they spawn,’ Morgan Stanley Asia Chairman Stephen Roach told a conference in Vancouver Dec. 1. ‘If we fail, there may not be another chance.’”

“‘I don’t believe that there’s a bubble,’ said Peter Aceto, CEO of Toronto-based ING Direct Canada. ‘Most stories I hear are just typical Canadians trying to buy their first home or move up.’”

“Aceto said he is seeing some unusual signs, particularly in the Toronto market, where houses are getting as many as five offers at a time and prospective buyers are trying to woo sellers with personal notes or gifts. ‘When Canadians are waiving conditions and paying 10 percent more than asking for a home, it does give you some pause,’ he said.”

“Paul Lai and a dozen other real-estate agents camped out for 10 days along Toronto’s Bloor Street in late November for the chance to buy a home that won’t be completed for four years. ‘Where else is the world do you have agents lining up overnight to buy a condominium?’ said Lai. He was bidding for a client on a condo costing as much as C$500,000. ‘We’re making history here,’ he said.”

The Toronto Sun in Canada. “In a sign pre-construction condo appetites among Canadians are healthier than ever, developers are turning to old tricks to ensure they can meet buyer demand fairly. Sellers for the ‘River City’ project in the West Don Lands neighbourhood of Toronto opted to draw names in a behind-closed-door lottery Tuesday to determine who had first dibs on floor plans. Occupancy isn’t slated until 2011 but still developers anticipated demand for their pre-construction units starting at $179,000 to be considerably higher than supply.”

“‘I haven’t heard of (lotteries) in a long time,’ Georges Pahud, president-elect of the Canadian Real Estate Association, told QMI Wednesday. Lotteries, which were fairly commonplace at the height of the 2007 condo market, died off after the 2008 sub-prime mortgage meltdown.”

“Toronto-based agent Andrew La Fleur of Re/Max Condos Plus said his phone was ringing off the hook after news of the X2 buying frenzy spread. ‘Suddenly someone who has never heard of the project wants to put their life savings into this thing,’ La Fleur recently told QMI.”

“‘Things are back to being as crazy as it ever was,” he said, citing a combination of factors including record low interest rates and a return to the belief that real estate is a safe investment.”

“For the average person, buying a condo is one of the easiest ways to get a foot in the investment door, he said, adding ‘The increase in media coverage of these hysteria-type buying activities fuels the fire a bit.’ Pre-sale condo buyers often hope to turn as much as $50,000 profit flipping a units in the short term. ‘Over the past 10 years, that’s exactly what has happened so people are once again back on the bandwagon and hoping for more of the same,’ La Fleur said.”

“Over the weekend, a horde of home buyers in British Columbia stood in the rain for a chance to purchase condo units in a 26-storey tower to be erected in Vancouver’s trendy Yaletown neighbourhood. The Omni Group’s ‘The Mark’ isn’t scheduled for completion until 2013 and prices range from $320,000 to more than $900,000.”

The Times Colonist in Canada. “Dozens of single-family wood-frame houses are under construction this fall on Bear Mountain in north Langford. Construction of steel-and-concrete condo towers — all that has ground to halt.”

“Nowhere is the contrast more obvious than on Players Drive. Turn off Bear Mountain Parkway onto Players Drive and look to the left where a green giant of a construction crane stands motionless over the silent site of Capella. This $1.4-billion four-tower luxury condo project by Vancouver-based developer Robert Quigg stalled last summer just weeks after the June 27 announcement that work had started.”

“At build-out, Capella is supposed to have 650 homes, in buildings as tall as 44 storeys, set amid a Shangri-La that includes a vineyard, spa and secret woodland. So far, the only hint of those promises is the crane.”

“Quigg…told the Times Colonist in October 2008 that market conditions have to improve before work resumes. ‘The buyers’ psyche has been damaged,’ he said at the time. ‘There’s a fear and there’s a reluctance to make major decisions right now.’”

“Those fears have also haunted Bear Mountain’s condo plans. A tower crane, a white one, also hovers over the concrete skeleton of the first six storeys of the Highlander, not far from where the 18th greens of Bear Mountain’s two Jack and Steve Nicklaus-designed golf courses converge. The Highlander was supposed to be 14 storeys. Now its final shape will depend on how the real estate market unfolds. ‘I don’t know,’ said. ‘We’ll probably look at some sort of redesign.’”

“Another Bear Mountain condo project, the 17-storey Soaring Peaks, never got started. Its future is also uncertain. The crash in the condo market isn’t unique to Bear Mountain. In Colwood, work on the 23-storey Silkwind tower has stopped with only an enormous hole to show for it. Twelve-storey towers have been put on hold at The Aquattro near Esquimalt Lagoon, although smaller condo buildings and townhouse are being developed. And the $1.5 billion Colwood Corners development and its towers are waiting for the market to improve.”

“‘There is really no credit available for development any more,’ Les Bjola of Turner Lane Development Corporation said in September. ‘Of course, the minute I say that, somebody will say, ‘Oh, I can get it.’”




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55 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-12-07 10:51:18

‘ A national index of housing values says metropolitan Vancouver values in September were five-per-cent less than values in September 2008. The national equivalent is almost two per cent; the Toronto equivalent, one per cent; and the Calgary equivalent, almost 5.5 per cent. The Teranet-National Bank index is worth knowing about because it is created from transactions registered with land registries and, further, only transactions involving properties that have been sold at least twice. Values in Vancouver increased two per cent in September from August.’

‘A recent newsletter from Averbach Mortgages, the Vancouver mortgage broker, to customers shared three ways in which households paying down lower-interest-rate variable-rate mortgages can prepare themselves right now for the inevitability of higher-interest-rate mortgages.’

“Ask your lender to increase your minimum payment by the maximum annual allowance. This is based on your original mortgage balance and you may be able to increase the minimum up to 25-per-cent annually under some lender guidelines. . . . The extra 15- to 25-per-cent increase would be applied directly toward principal.”

“If you can afford to and if you would like to more aggressively pay down your mortgage while your interest rate is extremely low, you can ask you lender to take the current fixed rate and apply it to your payment schedule.

“For example, if the current fixed rate for five years offered by your lender is 4.19 per cent, you could ask that your payment be set to that rate. Because you are only being charged your VRM interest rate, a much greater ratio of your payment will be applied towards the principal portion. By doing this, you will substantially reduce your amortization.”

“At the very least, you should make weekly or bi-weekly accelerated payments. Every lender allows this, and it will knock substantial years off your amortization. All it takes is one quick phone call.”

http://www.kelowna.com/2009/11/28/briefly-2/

Comment by Skip
2009-12-07 12:45:43

Canada seems like a ticking real estate bomb.

Any idea of what length of time the typical amortization schedule is in Canada?

Comment by VMAXER
2009-12-07 18:00:00

In an interview I heard on Bloomberg radio, this afternoon, it was stated that Canadians use a lot of adjustable rate mortgages, something like 50% of mortgages. A ticking time bomb, indeed.

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-12-07 14:46:04

WARNING, Canada, WARNING

Comment by DD
2009-12-07 20:58:10

The Omni Group’s ‘The Mark’ isn’t scheduled for completion until 2013 and prices range from $320,000 to more than $900,000.”

 
Comment by DD
2009-12-07 20:59:37

Shangri La, I always wondered where it is..even today in todays weather? Hmmm.

 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-12-07 11:19:32

The Daily Journal of Commerce in Oregon. “Gerding Edlen’s creed of 20-minute living was exemplified in Cyan/PDX. The building, which offers modest-sized apartments near Portland State University and alternative transportation, was designed to show that people can live small and sustainably, while enjoying the perks of an urban setting. Developer Mark Edlen still believes in the 20-minute neighborhood, but his dream of replicating multifamily, urban infill projects within Portland is on hold.”

Ummm, sir, ya gotta do more than believe. You have to have some solid financials behind your beliefs. And you didn’t have those. Instead, you had a pipe dream.

Comment by DinOR
2009-12-07 11:58:07

Slim,

At least they’ve stumbled upon the reality of the mess they’ve made? And I’ve no idea whom the buyer was? Sounds like an EC HF. Way to sell the City out from under us!

Overall though, ‘this’ is the thread I very desperately needed to see. “It’s gone from, it’s so great to be there, I can’t wait to go, to, Why go?”

( Which is only what ‘we’ have said all along ) Nice to have you back ‘with’ us, skipper.

 
Comment by In Montana
2009-12-07 15:13:24

“was designed to show that people can live small and sustainably,”

I love how they are always trying to *instruct* us. Better that they had planned to make some money than teach us all How to Live.

Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-12-07 20:54:24

Heh. As one who is quite favorable myself toward the walkable urban approach, I’ve had more than my fill of the smugness that always seems go along with.

 
 
 
Comment by DinOR
2009-12-07 11:51:48

Capitulation in-a-nutshell!

Why I’ve never seen so many people “coming to Jesus” in a single thread? Shame it took until late 2009 to materialie but..?

Got (yes) a speeding ticket in Medford, OR yesterday and, I’m not exactly proud of it. For what little driving I ‘do’ ( much of it is over the limit ) Like a -lot- of people. But the cop was almost apologetic about it? He ran my license on their all-knowing-system and walked back to out car in a slump.

No, sorry, not ‘everyone’ is a “gold mine” of unpaid tickets, parole violations and/or deadbeat dads. So sorry I couldn’t “make your day all in (1) stop!” He said ( and I can’t belive this! ) “I ran your license and you have no tickets.., so I’m just going to write you a ticket”. Well golly gee occifer, $190 later and I guess we’ll ‘both’ be on our seperate ways?

Comment by Rancher
2009-12-07 16:17:44

Medford usually won’t write you a ticket unless you’re 15 over the limit. My guess is you were on
Crater Lake highway and got nailed, their favorite
hunting ground.

Comment by blofeld42
2009-12-09 13:03:26

They hunt on I-5 a lot. Ask me how I know.

They can easily nail you on a downhill section, and the limits are often low (no more that 65mph, often 55mph) for the freeway.

 
 
 
Comment by sf jack
2009-12-07 12:05:58

Re: Tamarack Resort

Has anyone, anywhere, thought about the possibility that the Agassi “tell all” book is the rather unpleasant result of Steffi and him needing to raise cash after getting hammered in their real estate deals?

Just wondering…

I have read they lost $3 or $4 million just trying to sell their property in Tiburon a few years back.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-12-07 12:23:52

Has anyone, anywhere, thought about the possibility that the Agassi “tell all” book is the rather unpleasant result of Steffi and him needing to raise cash after getting hammered in their real estate deals?

Me again. Being of a somewhat writer-ly bent, I’m always on the lookout for opportunities to turn my wordsmithing into cash. But the notion of losing a bundle in real estate, then penning a tell-all, hadn’t occurred to me before sf jack brought it up.

I will now proceed to lose a bundle in real estate. Book deal coming soon.

Comment by DinOR
2009-12-07 12:32:56

Slim!

Me too! Just as an example of how quickly things can get bent out of shape?

http://katu.com/news/national/78685702.html

How are ‘these’ pirates any different than MEW-Pirates?

Comment by sf jack
2009-12-07 16:24:12

“There is mad money circulating here, and it affects everybody - directly or indirectly,” said Haji Said, a hotel owner.

******

This comment reminds me of the “mad money” in San Francisco at the turn of the century. Directly, or indirectly, everybody was effected for a few years.

What about the dotcom pirates? Has everyone already forgotten?

Locally dozens, if not hundreds, of dotcoms with no actual hope of succeeding went public, and were funded earlier by the venture idiot community. They were “analyzed” by criminals such as Henry Blodget and his pals, with a market fuelled by both Easy Al Greenspan’s mumbo jumbo, and the unbridled “optimism” (duplicity?) of the likes of Abby Joseph Cohen. This was the driver of the first local housing bubble in recent years.

And THAT was mad money.

Let’s hope two fraudulent bubbles in under ten years is enough.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by DD
2009-12-07 21:03:12

We can say we knew ye when you had some hair.
Now you will put ‘hair into the game’ and we’ll have to buy
the book to see all about HBB!

 
 
 
Comment by SMF
2009-12-07 12:46:30

Why are the Canadians so insistent that their market is ‘different’?

What they are saying now is the same crap we read and heard here years ago.

Comment by X-philly
2009-12-07 13:33:17

because everyone likes to feel special?

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-12-07 14:47:37

Because it can’t happen here?

 
Comment by bink
2009-12-07 15:31:29

I posted here a few months ago about my trip to Vancouver and the unbelievable similarity to the US circa 2004. My friends there are bewildered by prices and can’t think of anyone they know who should be able to afford a simple condo downtown.

It’s gotten so bad that even the olympics can’t help people rationalize housing costs.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-12-07 16:39:16

Well, I’ve got an anecdote knowing someone who bought a condo downtown in Vancouver. California-equity-speculative purchase. Rented it twice over 2 years, then, when they realized they couldn’t sell their own house in CA, realized there might be a problem.

Luckily they sold out of the condo while Vancouver was still on the way up. I’m guessing most of the condo purchases were made with Olympic fever. That was part of the equation in my acquaintance’s purchase.

Comment by marksparky
2009-12-09 19:38:04

There was also a lot of buying by US citizens for urban pied-a-terres/weekend getaways when the Canadian dollar dropped to a low level against the US $.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2009-12-07 18:00:36

Last week Canada put out a report that they created something like 60,000 jobs. Our own Eddie pounced on that factoid as a sign that the recovery was nigh. I was wondering if those jobs were just not bubble jobs circa Cali 2005. Now, I’m pretty sure they were. Should i be on the lookout for huge job losses in Canada?

 
Comment by Zachary
2009-12-07 20:05:28

I do think the Canadian real estate market “may” be a bit different than ours.

Millions of Americans have lost their entire life savings due to health problems. Health problems are a concern in Canada but much less of a concern than here. Canadians feel more secure about their financial stability.

I’ve been in Canada a few times, and Canadians seem to take better care of their homes, and yards, than Americans. Many homes here are in various degrees of disrepair. Too many yards here are just weeds. I haven’t seen much of that in Ontario.

However, I have not been in metro Toronto. Only parts of Ontario between Windsor and Niagra Falls.

The homes were immaculately kept. The lawns were just spectacular–lush and mowed to perfection.

The two markets may be similar but there are some differences.

 
Comment by DD
2009-12-07 21:04:55

It is high season and all the snowbirds are here. Half the cars- HIGH END,I might add, have Alberta license plates.
Friend in re says the board is filled up.

Must be those darn canuks that have the bucks.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-07 13:04:11

Did someone decide to unwind plunge protection on home builder stocks? If so, the action appears to be taking its Toll.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-12-07 13:44:24

Methinks that the Apple and Google stocks are way overvalued. But, then again, that’s just me.

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-12-07 13:11:50

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Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-07 13:41:02

Remember when this blog predicted a couple of years ago that they would re-spike the punch-bowl and resort to faulty low-down sub-prime lending again along with stated income loans .

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-12-07 13:53:32

I don’t think they have any choice right now my younger brother who has been an electrician for 15 years is getting depressed, I’ve never seen him so glum about the future.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-12-07 13:54:46

Only for people that wants to make more money, people that are not motivated or determined to make money need not apply.

Their grammar is subprime.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-07 15:01:43

STATED INCOME LOANS, AND NO DOC LOANS ARE STILL AVAILABLE!!!

They never went away, they just retreated some what.

A mortgage broker told my wife a few weeks ago that everything that was available pre-bubble can still be had. There will be and is plenty of pushing to get any and every one back ‘in’ the RE market.

 
 
Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2009-12-07 13:14:57

“‘I don’t believe that there’s a bubble,’”

He probably believes that the world is flat, too!

 
Comment by exeter
2009-12-07 13:24:35

Hailing from Frogballs, Idaho —->“‘It’s gone from, ‘I can’t wait to get out there, it’s so great,’ to ‘Why go?’ Snyder said.”

Does anyone need anymore evidence that moving to NoWhereLand isn’t such a good idea?

Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2009-12-07 15:14:51

Sort of the same here, especially this time of year. I’m always amazed when a newcomer tells me that they didn’t know the winters here were so cold. All I can do is think to myself, “It would seem that the fact that there are four nearby ski slopes would tell you something.”

Comment by tresho
2009-12-07 17:21:51

I’m always amazed when a newcomer tells me that they didn’t know the winters here were so cold. I used to be amazed at people like that but not any more. Over the years I’ve noticed a large fraction of the population only gets in touch with reality when they are bitten on the rear end by it, or are shattered by running full speed into it.

 
 
 
Comment by MacAttack
2009-12-07 14:22:09

I have relatives in BC (one in condo development) who visited recently. When I talked with them about Portland condos’ new lower prices, they wondered why we weren’t buying one for investment. OTOH, one of their kids bought a “starter” home in Mission (east of Van a bit) for C$350K two years ago, and they do say it may have gone down in value slightly. Me, I’m confused. I can’t imagine gravity not affecting my northern neighbors, but things do seem to be holding up…

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-12-07 15:34:36

Here in Tucson, I have the dubious privilege of looking across the street at an “investment.” It was bought by a University of Arizona dad for his little princess to live in while going to school. Mom added to the fun by buying Princess a used Jaguar. Which she totaled less than a year after she moved into the castle.

Well, folks, five years on, and that castle’s looking pretty gloomy. Just like today’s weather.

Why so gloomy? Because Princess — and the college kiddies she rented rooms to — were unclear on the concepts of home maintenance and repair, cleaning up after themselves, and just taking pride in the appearance of their place.

Nowadays, the neighbors refer to it as The Slum.

Comment by tresho
2009-12-07 17:23:58

Mom added to the fun by buying Princess a used Jaguar. Which she totaled less than a year after she moved into the castle. That particular princess sounds very responsible. Similar precocious Jaguar owners tend to destroy their rides in less than a month.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-07 15:19:30

“Aceto said he is seeing some unusual signs, particularly in the Toronto market, where houses are getting as many as five offers at a time and prospective buyers are trying to woo sellers with personal notes or gifts. ‘When Canadians are waiving conditions and paying 10 percent more than asking for a home, it does give you some pause,’ he said.”

A sure sign of a bubble: MSM ‘experts’ denying the bubble’s existence, then in the next breath, wondering incredulously about all those multiple bids above asking price.

 
Comment by In Montana
2009-12-07 15:19:52

I found this in the local paper today about this cutting edge new condo bldg.

‘So what’s the deal with the “Tetanus Block” across from Hellgate High School? Isn’t there a limit to the amount of time that it takes to complete a project? This thing has been ongoing for years! How long does it take to build a prison facility anyway? Isn’t there some way to either force completion or demolition?’

He’s talking about this place http://tinyurl.com/yfk5sr2 .

I see only one condo listed so far. Is there some advantage to dragging out the building if things aren’t selling, or does it just reflect a reduced construction crew?

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-12-07 15:36:29

Isn’t this around the time that sellers start demanding that buyers feed the squirrels? And, IIRC, they do have squirrels in Canada.

 
Comment by Mad Boy
2009-12-07 15:48:23

Spent time open-house hopping.

One agent says “oh the market’s stabilizing.”

Really? How so? Unemployment in this area has more than doubled in the last year, but prices may have only dropped 12%, and that’s WITH the tax credit.

My favorite - oh, you don’t need to get permits for electric and plumbing, that’s just so the city can raise your taxes. I thought it was so unqualified persons such as myself didn’t try to wire or plumb a whole house (and cross the two!).

 
Comment by Leigh
2009-12-07 17:03:30

Interesting about Canada. I could see the Vancouver area holding due to the Olympics but not the rest of the country. And what will happen post Olympics?

Maybe Canada has strong fundamentals?!?!? (My personal favorite comment as to why Portland has earned our bubbly prices!)

 
Comment by TheMostDepressed
2009-12-07 17:26:45

There are many things I don’t understand but there’s one that is really bothering me.

For about four years I’ve been trying to buy a home in Mexico City, back then prices seemed about 20% higher than normal, then they doubled and within months (this year) they doubled again, nobody even mentions a bubble, and when I’ve asked some “experts” they tell me that in Mexico the conditions are very different and that in this country real estate prices have never decreased, that even during the years when the mexican peso depreciated (more than 1,000% since the 70’s) home prices where the only thing that kept rising.

I’m seriously very worried. Tiny apartments are being built all over the city with no regulations, banks are auctioning a considerable amount of homes, the unemployment rate grows higher every day, there are rumors that some states even have abandoned real estate developments but adverts are still saying that today is the perfect moment to get a mortgage.

Does anybody knows if the situation is really going to be different with Mexico?, Are conditions irrelevant here and prices won’t be decreasing?

Comment by DD
2009-12-07 21:13:11

Wow, even hecho en Mexico?

So, how much is a house, 3/2?

Comment by TheMostDepressed
2009-12-08 10:12:29

The area means everything. In poor or far places they can cost about 900 thousand pesos.
Middle class are around 3 million pesos.
And the very exclusive areas start at 1 million dollars (12 million pesos).

 
 
Comment by Joe Formaggio
2009-12-08 01:29:41

¡Es diferente en Mejico!

 
 
Comment by Biff Henderson
2009-12-07 18:55:40

One only need google “Dubai” to see the shoes on this centipede dropping one by one

 
Comment by DD
2009-12-07 20:47:13

http://wwwDOThuffingtonpostDOTcomSLASH2009SLASH12/07/jackie-ramos-bank-of-amer_n_381940.html

Jackie Ramos, Bank Of America Employee, Fired After Helping Customers

http://wwwDOTyoutubeDOTcomSLASHwatch?v=a5E0WNO7e_Q

Seems lots of folks are doing anti BofA etc You tubess and BofA is getting some seriously bad exposure.

 
Comment by pricedoutfornow
2009-12-07 21:52:55

Welcome to Canada. We have no bubble here. No, it doesn’t matter that the falling-down shack down the street is $500k, or that unlike you Americans, we can only lock in our mortgage interest rate for 5 years (ok, maybe 10 if you pay a 4% premium). We have our CMHC (think Freddie/Fannie Mac) no need for the banks to worry about losing money on foreclosure, any mortgage with less than 20% downpayment is insured by CMHC-100%. Neato for the banks, eh!
Nope, no bubble here. As we say in Vancouver “We have the Olympics!”

Comment by MacAttack
2009-12-09 12:26:22

Ah! THAT’s the story. Thanks!
I must confess, I do harbor a secret love of Canada though :)

 
 
Comment by blofeld42
2009-12-09 13:32:27

I’m shocked that Bend hasn’t dropped even more. The unemployment rate is something like 15%, construction is dead, and they all paid outrageous prices for housing. I suspect they’ll go default-happy next year sometime as everyone realizes how far underwater they are and how unlikely it is they’ll be able to dig out.

BTW, google maps has a real estate section now. I know, I’m behind the times. Anyway, you can click on the “foreclosures” button and see the foreclosures mapped, both NOD and full foreclosure. Anyone know how accurate they are?

 
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