The Housing Bubble

One man’s Demand Side is another man’s Entitlement.

You’ll never convince J6P otherwise, even if he lives in a tent.

“Embrace the race to the bottom”

Sorry, I’m going to have to take serious exception to that. That’s like saying the Bataan Death March would have been so much better off had the prisoners been forced to ‘run’?

If this were ‘just’ about driving down unrealistic HOME prices ( and putting The REIC out of business ) then I could get onboard. But now that ( as Ben suggests ) even innocents are getting dragged into the malestrom I’ll take my sweet time if it’s o.k w/ you?

Bad analogy.

The problem is - the longer it takes to get to the bottom, the more innocents will get dragged in.

Housing stimulus is a great example - the tax credits, the MBS purchases, etc. It’s prolonging the race to the bottom, enhancing the profits of the REIC at the expense of the general population in the form of higher taxes and inflation.

Cmon… embrace walmart… cheap is good…. especially when the global wage arbitrage drives wages to the floor!

Aren’t you enjoying it?

packman,

Yeah I’m not sure it was my ‘best’ turning of a phrase but an unbridled desire to see the most pyrotechnic ’show’ isn’t going to help either?

I don’t think anyone has a lock on the right to be impatient or bitter about this and there -are- days where I just can’t take another minute of this! But I’m not sure what not wanting to see the entire country slide into oblivion has to do w/ embracing Walmart or low wages?

Quite the contrary, these are the very things I sought to avoid from the git go. Not sure why they’re being assigned to ‘me’?

“That’s nothing. We’re used to that in the northeast.”

So are we. It’s down to one from 6-7 when I first came here in 1975. But it still hurts. This was *the* Other Shoe in the local economy. I thought it might close before 1990 but it kept rolling along.

So things ought to get real interesting now.

You may wan’t to tell that to the current President and Congress. They are building a new form of supply side where the Government controls the money and 10 cents of every dollar trickles down to the citzenry. The other 90 cents goes to “right minded” organizations/unions and over paid Federal employees.

Give me Reagan’s supply side any day.

Cmon… embrace walmart… cheap is good…. especially when the global wage arbitrage drives wages to the floor!

Aren’t you enjoying it?

As soon as wages in other countries meet our minimum wage, poof. The goose is cooked. Not that far off.

Give me Reagan’s supply side any day.

Methinks you are mistaken,Cashed. RR was instrumental in raising taxes and driving up the deficit and then it continued with GW then C, Then fully recognized with GW again.

You keep saying that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.

But I’m not sure what not wanting to see the entire country slide into oblivion has to do w/ embracing Walmart or low wages?

You’re mixing mine and exeter’s posts.

I don’t want to see the country slide “into oblivion” either. But one man’s oblivion is another man’s solid financial foundation. We don’t have to get to 50% unemployment to fix this economy. And we don’t have to all start shopping at WalMart (heaven forbid - ugh).

What we do need to do is take our lumps, and learn our lesson. We are not. Instead we are building a foundation for an even greater fall down the road. It may be anywhere from maybe 10-50 years from now - but it will happen. And I doubt we’ll survive it.

(Assuming we survive this one)

Ok. Reagan had his ups and downs, first term was an up, second term was a down. Anyway, the current bunch is going to blow any spending, taxing and deficit setting records off the map. Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and former Congress’ will seem like pikers.

packman,

Just to observe brievity, I actually ‘did’ combine the posts. I think it’s only too obvious we ultimately -will- have to revert to a “solid financial foundation”.

But are we sure going cold turkey/white knuckle is the answer? Since the PTB have already determined that’s not going to happen, what’s ‘to’ embrace?

“Methinks you are mistaken,Cashed. RR was instrumental in raising taxes and driving up the deficit and then it continued with GW then C, Then fully recognized with GW again.”

Whomever said this better go back and read a history book. RR LOWERED taxes from the Peanut Farmer’s ridiculous 70% rates and also LOWERED the deficit in his first term to almost a BALANANCED BUDGET, despite the likes of Ted Kennedy and Tip O’neill declaring his budgets DOA. You forget that Congress was controlled by the DEMS his entire eight years. I get sick and tired of you Dems trying to re write history to make your loser President’s look good.

GW LOWERED taxes again- the same ones that Barry wants to take away!

Fact is, I’ve never met a D that did not want to take someone ELSE’s money away and give it to someone else. Your man Barry is going down as the WORST president in 100 years. Thank GOD he will be a one term president. Then hopefully we can undo what damage he’s done.

RR LOWERED the deficit in his first term to almost a BALANANCED BUDGET

Say what?

Deficit as a % of GDP:

1980: 2.6%
1981: 2.9%
1982: 4.5%
1983: 5.5%
1984: 4.8%

May want to check your facts there.

Postwar president’s increase of national debt to GDP from beginning of term to end:

Roosevelt/Truman -24.3%
Truman -21.9
Eisenhower -10.8
Eisenhower -5.4
Kennedy/Johnson -8.2
Johnson -8.3
Nixon -2.9
Nixon/Ford +0.1
Carter -3.2
REAGAN +11.3
REAGAN +9.2
Bush 1 +13.1
Clinton -0.6
Clinton -8.2
Bush 2 +6.9
Bush 2 +11.9

Anybody see a pattern?

+1000 alphy

Obama +100%

I should have said ‘increase or decrease’- those are negative signs in front of every single free-spendin’ democrat, positive signs in front of every single republican (except Eisenhower and Nixon’s first term).

Not according to RR JR.

Unions are outdated, especially if they represent unskilled and semiskilled work which is easy to replace. What is the worst that a union can do? Go on strike? Going on strike means going to China. Going on strike means hiring H1-b’s or “undocumenteds.” Going on strike means hiring scabs, which aren’t difficult to find these days.

Which is exactly why the elite love globilization, which is exactly why everyone in the US will see there wages fall until we are competetive with people who live in a box and eat one bowl of rice a day.

Which is exactly why the elite love globilization, which is exactly why everyone in the US will see there wages fall until we are competetive with people who live in a box and eat one bowl of rice a day.

And the 5 day work week will disappear, the insurance coverage provided by some corps will disappear, pensions will definitely completely disappear, any safety at all at the workplace will be a forgone conclusion. No vacation at all. No holidays, 8-5 or 9-5 PFFFT gone.
YEP, you get rid of unions and even you ‘consultants’ will see your bread and butter disappear.

Yeah and of course without protection of the key laws - I’m sure slavery will make a full comeback, as will stoning of adulterers, burning of witches at the stake, etc. Without building codes we’ll all be reverting to outhouses. Without the EPA of course we’ll revert right quick to dumping raw sewage into the rivers again.

Etc. etc.

You keep building that strawman, there. I for one do not buy it.

packman,

Thank you. And if any of that -were- true, how much of that blame our we willing to shoulder ourselves? It’s incredible to me just how attentive people are when they’re listening to you, now that they’ve seen just how important having a job is?

Where was all this lavish attention during the last 2 booms? Guess we were all too busy daytrading our ETrade accounts or shopping Home Depot online for the latest curb appeal for our next flip?

If not having to beat people over the head and repeat your acct. # FOUR times is part of the “bottoming process” they yes, that’s something I can embrace.

History has shown time and time again WITHOUT fail that the PTB WILL resort to abuse of the populace if given half a chance.

Surely you’ve been keeping up with current events? I mean really, how can you say you don’t think it would get that bad? Seriously?

Comment by packman
2009-12-15 10:51:23
Yeah and of course without protection of the key laws - I’m sure slavery will make a full comeback, as will stoning of adulterers, burning of witches at the stake, etc. Without building codes we’ll all be reverting to outhouses. Without the EPA of course we’ll revert right quick to dumping raw sewage into the rivers again.

You keep building that strawman, there. I for one do not buy it.
————————-

What’s your take on it then, packman?

I fail to see why people don’t understand how we are all being forced to the bottom. Globalization has done nothing good for the countries with resources. Who cares if we can buy our food processors for $15 instead of $30? If the one made in China is loaded with toxins and designed to break down in a year (as opposed to the $30 one lasting 20 years), what is gained?

If the means to get cheap goods is to reduce our wages (therefore reducing the purchasing power of our citizens over the long run), what is gained?

Might I suggest that the stench of the Wall Street bean counter management class has had as much to do with it as the so-called “unions”

I’ve been on both sides of the management-union divide. Bad management comes before bad unions.

And they have formed an unholy alliance to eff over the average working stiff who just wants to support his family.

Wall Street has the BEST union and community organizers EVER! And don’t Congress and da Prez know it! Play ball, or we’ll kneecap EVERYONE by taking da system down.

Southwest Airlines is fully unionized and often mentioned here as a well run company.

Southwest airlines employees have a much different attitude than the employees of the legacy carriers, due in large part to good management and the legacy of Herb Kelleher. I recently saw a WN first officer handing excess cabin bags down to the ramp crew. You would never see that on a legacy carrier, it would be a gross violation of the union work rules.

Hopefully, the WN union personnel and management have learned from the mistakes of the legacy carriers, but only time will tell.

Eddie:

I don’t usually answer you, but its Not the unions per se that is the problem, it is the years of pushing the line inch by inch year after year and it compounds to the point where unions pay is way out of line with what is reasonable.

We have a Teachers “rubber room: which is no different then GM’s “Job bank” teachers are paid to do nothing while waiting to see if they get fired or go back to the class room, some even years.

While the average kids is barely functional when and if they graduate. Its an embarrassment to have remedial courses to get accepted at a city college.

What unions were originally for was for workers in company towns where half the people worked for the company and the other half were in retail services to that company.

It was supposed to protect workers from humiliating and scum bosses and for a long time it worked.

But as above inch by inch they went overboard and were basically destroyed

Right now the union NABET (my friend who worked at CNN) won a class action unfair labor practices against CNN after CNN basically outsourced all its technical help because 9-11 cost them an arm and a leg in all the OT and union pay… of course NY and DC were the only unions shops left at CNN

Was that the right thing for Time Warner to do? people slept in the vans at ground zero, covered with dust, taking showers at the Y and churches, vans got clogged with the dust so they would not start…all sorts of stories from cameraman and techs to get you the story, and then next year to be outsourced because of the cost.

Bad management comes before bad unions.

You bet. If there was no greedy, bad management, there would be no unions. Now we have unions, and the unions have greedy, bad management. What happens next?

I love the left’s mantra of evil greedy people. Without greed there’s be no company in the first place. As much as the leftists hate to admit it, people start companies to make money. They don’t start companies to make the world a better place or give employees health insurance. They start companies with the goal of getting rich and in the process hire employees.

Destroying the companies will not make the employees and richer. Forcing unionization through card check will only lead to outsourcing and/or closing the whole thing down. In the end a weak employer is bad for the employees.

I can’t for the life of me figure out why you people don’t understand this.

Bad management comes before bad unions.

Name one corp that isn’t giving their top BAD mgmnt bonuses yr after yr while taking away from the entire company of employees, and it will be a novelty to be sure.

Eddie, if I answered your post the way I want to, I would likely be banned.

Destroying the companies will not make the employees and richer. Forcing unionization through card check will only lead to outsourcing and/or closing the whole thing down. In the end a weak employer is bad for the employees.

I can’t for the life of me figure out why you people don’t understand this.

I dont always agree with you eddie,

But I also notice no one has refuted this last statement..

“…As much as the leftists hate to admit it, people start companies to make money. They don’t start companies to make the world a better place”

Hey Haskel, The Beave’s Mom (or Mrs. Cleaver as you always call her) wants to know what you did with the AFB donation can, the Beave claims that you had it last!

The American Foundation for the Blind / Helen Keller:

AFB is recognized as the leading organization to which Helen Keller devoted her life. Keller worked for AFB for more than 40 years, and was instrumental in the foundation of the Talking Books Program, among many others. She remained with AFB until her death in 1968 — lecturing, writing, fundraising, lobbying and providing an example of committed action for the public good. Under the terms of her will, Helen Keller selected AFB as the repository of her papers and memorabilia, which AFB has carefully preserved and arranged in the Helen Keller Archives located in New York City. Helen Keller was a important person that influenced the world.

aNYCdj,

You’ve alluded to that story before, thanks for putting it in terms of REAL human impact! I guess so many of us were watching that unfold 24/7 we never stopped to think of the sacrifices of those that covered it.

Thank you for making that clear.

“….why you don’t understand this.”

If your worldview is that labor is an unavoidable expense, and Dong6pak is directly interchangable with J6P, then congratulations, you can align yourself with the greedy bastard/Wall Street crowd.

Most of the guys I know that actually MAKE THINGS for a living try to do a decent job of paying their employees, so they can concentrate on the work at hand, and not have to take second jobs to have insurance, or pay the rent. They are also smart enough to figure out that demand for their products will drop, if all their customers are living in mud huts.

Unfortunately, a lot of these guys are being run out of business.

For those who have bad/non-existant memories, it was the Wall Street sharks who pushed for a lot of the outsourcing that has happened…….a company could make a profit building/making things here, but the sharks were looking for profit + 50%.

Many small and mid-level manufacturers didn’t want to do business in China, due to no intellectual property protection, and the government’s capital restrictions. But many were put in the position of either outsourcing, or going out of business.

So, our manufacturers are having to compete against products that use stolen/exported under duress intellectual property (so, no R & D costs), that perform maybe 80% as well as the latest US-designed/built stuff, but cost 80% less. (At least until they run all their competition out of business)

Even if your labor is free, it’s hard to compete against that.

But I also notice no one has refuted this last statement..

Stpn, sometimes we just Ignore that which spews.

Many small and mid-level manufacturers didn’t want to do business in China, due to no intellectual property protection, and the government’s capital restrictions. But many were put in the position of either outsourcing, or going out of business.

+10000%

In refutation!

“…In the end a weak employer is bad for the employees”

Right, so you argument is… that while it was a “growing concern”… ENRON was a weak company, right?

BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! (fpss™)

“…So, our manufacturers are having to compete against products that use stolen/exported under duress intellectual property (so, no R & D costs), that perform maybe 80% as well as the latest US-designed/built stuff, but cost 80% less. (At least until they run all their competition out of business)

Even if your labor is free, it’s hard to compete against that.”

Shakespeare: “Oh, what cost $$$$$$$ thou art ingredient: Toxicity!”

A big issue I see is that so many smaller to mid sized companies get bought out by the larger companies (to be fair this is often an exit strategy from the beginning). If there isn’t something to replace it (started by the people that made the cash from the sale), then you can see shedding of workforce and consolidation of employers.

“Greed is good?”

Oh dear. Where did we hear that one before? Oh yeah, just before the Savings & Loan fiasco.

Greed is stupid and destructive. There’s a reason it’s one of the 7 Deadly Sins and there’s a reason they’re called “deadly.”

Do not confuse “ambition” with “greed.”

Darrel, Darrel, and Darrel?

(bonus points to whomever gets the reference)

DinOR:

And that’s the point with eddie…if Nabet had done its patriotic duty and suspended all the union rules the massive OT turn around time,double,triple time pay…maybe CNN wouldn’t have outsourced the help…we will never know…..he put in 100 hours wk ($3000 wk take home) taking turns napping in the van…it was an ordeal just to go 15 blocks with 2-5 gal gas cans for the van had to be escorted by police though 5 check points lest anyone though he was a terrorist…with a press pass….

You’ve alluded to that story before, thanks for putting it in terms of REAL human impact! I guess so many of us were watching that unfold 24/7 we never stopped to think of the sacrifices of those that covered it.

Thank you for making that clear.

This comment is in response to packman. Packy, I read every single post of yours and find you to be extraordinary. Calm and analytical. That has got to explain why you, as a professional, have landed and prospered in jobs with 40 hour work weeks.

Now, I’m not saying I’m the sharpest knife in the drawer. But (at least in strategic matters - seeing the direction of a business and advising on structure and function) I can hold a conversation with an EVP as a business partner. And due to ridiculous amounts of overeducation with a solid grounding in classics, I kan reed and rite gud.

I have never had a job where I have been able to put in less than 50 hours a week, except during the first month or so when I was just walking around. I am currently a consultant in a firm that is renowned for its balanced life practices. I have logged my fourth straight sixty hour week. I’m not proud of it. I’d rather be home reading or walking the dog. I don’t waste time at work. I’m quiet. There is simply that much stuff that needs to get done that has my name on it.

You are a formidable intellect, and I will be proud to shake your hand at the next meet up. I ask this with all humility:
So what the heck am I doing wrong?

Not sure if you’ll read this - so I’ll respond in today’s BB….

I show up drunk/high I make $X. And no matter what, I will never be fired.

You make the argument to the extreme, but I agree this is a shortcoming of the current incarnation of unions. They protect the under-performers, and as a result hold back the good performers (cough teachers’ unions cough).

Collective bargaining isn’t a bad idea overall, and that’s the benefit of Unions. Sadly, these days they’re often corrupt and too powerful.

Eddie, I don’t know if you are a certifiable idiot, or just play one on TV.

I’ve terminated several people when I was a supervisor in a union shop. It’s not that difficult to terminate someone for performance issues. All you have to do is document the poor performance, per the company/union negotiated contract. And if the guy is as worthless as you say, it won’t take long. Believe it or not, most people don’t want to work with f-ups….it makes life harder for everyone else.

Drugs, the same. All I had to do is send anyone I thought was under the influence (per an agreed set if criteria) to the aid station. If it came up positive, automatic thirty day suspension, and termination if the employee didn’t complete rehab. Plus, the Feds pulled your A&P.

Another example……once, my boss’s-boss came down on the shop floor and fired a guy, because he was being investigated for a felony that had nothing to do with work. Screw due process and the contract, he didn’t like the guy anyway, so he thought he would bypass the system and show him the door. The guy was never charged, but had to file a grievance to get his job back. Eighteen months and a negotiated monetary settlement later, the guy is back at work with 18 months of back pay, and a PO’d at the world attitude.

And this is a “union” problem?

In my experience, the guys that bitch the most about the unions have never worked at a company that had crappy, arbitrary management, or were wannabe “Little Hitlers” themselves.

Like everything else, unions or labor associations can do good or bad - Labor organizations can insure fair wages, fair work conditions, benefits and prevent malicious treatment of employees (remember when Walmart locked in employees in stores overnight!).

Unions can also go overboard and extract unreasonable pension benefits threatening to bankrupt many cities/towns. While many factors were involved, the strike at Boeing just as the economic collapse was getting warmed up certainly encouraged Boeing to open their second assembly line back East.

X-GSFixer,

But remember, guys like you and I COME from an aviation background! When you have a problem w/ your aeroplane ( it’s not like you could just pull over to the side of the road? )

Not to take Eddie’s side or any of the other standard-issue neo-con talking points, but he may have been more referring to the teachers/postal emps. etc. I can share plenty of horror stories where it would take molestation charges to get them from drawing a check. IMHO.

Agreed……our shop was in a “right to work” state, in a “Red” state where the typical J6P viewed both the union and management with equal suspicion. It worked out okay, because the union leadership knew they had to perform to keep their members. Everyone knew that if labor costs got out of line, work could (and would) be sent somewhere else.

Different mindset with the UAW……..of course, we never had a history of company thugs beating up and killing union members.

Their problem (like a lot of people seem to have) is that they think the climate in their general vicinity is the same as the rest of the country. The UAW/Big 3 should have been looking at the writing on the wall around 1985-90, and started taking the cram-downs in pay and benefits, like most of their customers were being forced to take.

OTOH, cutting everyone’s pay to $10/hr makes no difference, when management decides they can generate more profit by moving manufaturing to places that pay $5/ a day, and their employees live in mud huts by the riverbank.

It’s a balance, if management has all the power you have slave labor. That’s there ultimate goal right. If unions have too much power you have inefficiency. Both are bad for the country. The former results in no middle class and rule by the elites who control a much larger percentage of a smaller pie. The later results in inflation and poor service in a closed system or loss of jobs in a globilized system.

Currently management has all the power, and you are seeing the destruction of the middle class in this country. My guess is Eddie will eventually be going down with the ship he’s just not smart enough to know it.

On the union experience: This is a report from a bunch of former Boeing guys related to me about why they hated the union. They felt like the company was getting dragged down by the union and non-productive activities they sponsored.

I’ve hired a bunch of really good techs away from a union shop (Boeing). The engineers are forced to go through the union protocol to decide who gets overtime there.

The union thugs call the shop all the time and figure out who is working. If it isn’t one of the senior guys, they force the company to write the senior guys a check because the company went out of order of selection.

The union guys take turns calling the shop phone in after hours, all night, to find out if they can get some free money.

Many of the engineers have to take an extra tech on the job to balance the union freeloader that is busy talking on his cell phone all night. As you can imagine it drives cost like hell and only large scale work can get done. Engineers end up doing the work themselves quite often.

There were some layoffs at the plant I’m mentioning. The union guys realized some specialized technicians (RF) were all kept. So, every bolt turning monkey got himself reclassified as that type of specialist. Lots of unqualified people suddenly became RF specialists. We have to do a lot of careful sorting in resumes. A lot of the mechanical assemblers like to appear as electronics specialists. Other guys that work power supplies that connect to RF transmitters also like to call themselves RF too. It is a beast to do the hiring with all the collective noise.

….back to my regular scheduled rant.

The public employees unions are among the worst. It used to be that govt work was low paying but high security. Clearly become unsustainable with too many high paid people. Don’t know when that will finish. I do think guys like Exeter will ride this country right into the ground with that kind of union BS.

Every time I’ve had to deal with a union it has been difficult to say the least. From what I’m hearing, Toyota employees are happier on average than GM, F workers. Part of the reason is they don’t have the unions on their backs. Toyota works hard to move workers around to make less repeatative motion injuries. GM will let the slackers with tenure select the easiest tasks. Absenteeism is rampant in the GM factories with high $ replacements as the only option. Toyota rewards you for attendance by paying your sick time and giving a bonus for perfect attendance. They also have the option to selectively reward outstanding workers. And they listen to the workers with out the long drawn out union process. They give bonuses for finding improvements, something the unions frown on because they like “make work”.

Anyhow. The situation is a mess in the country. The unions, like the environmentalists are now the establishment. The original purpose has long since been accomplished. They are just morphing into some blood sucking leaches killing innovation and progress. And I’m talking both groups here.

I’ve never seen such a raft of limpwristed squealing in all my life. If you don’t like collective bargaining, don’t join a union. It’s really that simple. But don’t forget to give up your 40 hr week and paid holidays.

It’s really thatTHIS simple. But don’t forget to give up your 40 hr week and paid holidays.And 9-5 hrs, safety, insurance, pensions-those are disappearing anyway, and each contract time your pay will get reduced till the corp has you at bare bones minimum wage.
Wait for it. wait for it…coming to a job near you soon.

It’s really that simple. But don’t forget to give up your 40 hr week and paid holidays.

I’m not a member of a union - never have been. But in all my jobs I’ve always had 40-hour work weeks, with flexible hours in fact, and paid holidays.

Exactly how do you reconcile that?

Am I some kind of freak anomaly?

No. I am the norm for non-union full-time workers.

I’m not a member of a union - never have been. But in all my jobs I’ve always had 40-hour work weeks, with flexible hours in fact, and paid holidays.

Are you paid by the hour? Because in every salaried job that I’ve ever had the expectation was there for plenty of unpaid overtime.

Freak anomaly? Probably not. You’re probably a skilled worker. The only leverage an unskilled worker has is if they walk out en masse, to the point where it’s easier to bargain than replace the entire workforce. Corporations have learned how to get around this.

Skilled workers, on the other hand, are in enough demand that they pretty much bargain for themselves. But be careful and remember the old saying: If you can do your job from your computer in your home, then Apu can do your job from his computer in Mumbai.

The guy was never charged, but had to file a grievance to get his job back. Eighteen months and a negotiated monetary settlement later, the guy is back at work with 18 months of back pay, and a PO’d at the world attitude.

And you agree with this? The guy needs to find another job….

“The only leverage an unskilled worker has is if they walk out en masse,…”

Unfortunately this provides no leverage anymore, when there are plenty of unskilled workers ready to walk in en masse. Regardless of the good and bad of unions, they’re pretty toothless right now.

The only leverage an unskilled worker has is if they walk out en masse…

Or they could… acquire a skill.

In that respect - IMO the worst thing about unions is encouraging people to stay locked into dead-end jobs. By rewarding the status quo they discourage advancement of individuals, and thus that of the economy as a whole.

ROTFLMAO!

“I’ve never seen such a raft of limpwristed squealing in all my life.”

Aye! Well said, Capt’ exeter

“……agreed with this?”

I didn’t have to agree or disagree. That decision was made a lot farther up the food chain.

The point I was trying to make, was that he was terminated for a bull$hit reason by a mid level manager (who, BTW, used his position to protect his buddies when they damaged a customer’s airplane), and would have had no recourse, if he had been working in a non-union shop (guy was a 10 + year employee).

The reason it is so hard to terminate a union employee, is that the unions have insisted on rules to prevent idiot managers on all levels from terminating employees for no good reason.

One of the reasons I left that company……I’m old fashioned, and believe that someone who has been accused of something has the right to contest the charges. I wasn’t too popular with the above mentioned manager, when I refused to “right up” guys for bull$hit reasons, when guys who contributed to the problem got off scott-free, because they were someone’s buddy, or got to tell their side of the story first.

Sometime, try being investigated, charged, tried, and (figuratively) executed, before you even know someone has a problem with something that you were accused of doing, when in fact you weren’t even near the situation.

These are my experiences…..yours may vary. There are always two sides to every story, and both sides usually have some truth.

X-GSfixer,

Hmm, I hadn’t heard all the background ‘noise’ on that one? But suffice to say, even in the military, it’s the “last guy to touch the plane” that has the most on the line!

With or withOUT a union. It has so much to do w/ our “upbringing” within the Av. complex that it makes me wonder why they ever considered going union ‘anyway’?

My guard unit is having a very difficult time keeping on some of the FT guys. It’s a very demanding env. and many have determined that ( especially considering the weather and diff. shifts ) that it’s just not worth it? It’s pretty high turnover, at least in my book?

Exactly how do you reconcile that?
packy- No, This is how you Recondile that.
In the late 1800s-1900s you will note, if you read some history, that until men and women fought for safe working conditions, no child labor etc, That is what set up the groups that turned into unions that fought to change 7 day work weeks.
And eventually through the decades, employers found out to get and keep skilled workers they had to match other companies “benefits”.

So,packy, That is how you reconcile that you and other “non union” employees get 5 day work weeks etc

Sheesh.

I wasn’t too popular with the above mentioned manager, when I refused to “right up” guys for bull$hit reasons, when guys who contributed to the problem got off scott-free, because they were someone’s buddy, or got to tell their side of the story first.

This is exactly my friend’s situation. He was wronged - partly due to mid-manager’s negligence. Mismanager colludes with HR to make victim the culprit. Union is supposed to protect, but because both parties to the incident are ahem union brothers…the guy who is most connected wins!

And right now my friend is caught between a rock and a hard place: the company and the union. Although there may be a silver lining here - union boss is trying to use this situation to get the mis-manager replaced.

It is shaping up to be one heck of a cluster-fu@k.

So, this doesn’t bother you at the gov or Fed level or bankers, or non union companies, or deal makers in your town/city/valley? This behavior is acceptable for you because it is “free market”? Oh brother people.

Are you paid by the hour? Because in every salaried job that I’ve ever had the expectation was there for plenty of unpaid overtime.

Some yes, some now. Some jobs I’ve had did pay overtime, some didn’t. None required overtime as a general rule, though it was sometimes necessary during peak times. If not paid directly, usually it was rewarded via bonuses or other means.

And eventually through the decades, employers found out to get and keep skilled workers they had to match other companies “benefits”.

Sheesh.

If companies only had to “match” other unionized companies - they how do you explain the fact that there are lots of companies that provide benefits that are above and beyond what are demanded by the unions?

- Salaries that are beyond what are negotiated
- Bonuses
- Holiday parties
- Extra time off due to seniority (after N years)
- 401k’s
- Stock options
- etc. etc. etc.

They do do this to attract workers, and to not lose existing workers. They do it to try and beat out their peers, not to just match them (generally).

My point is - improved working conditions would have happened regardless of the existence of the unions. Yes the unions pushed them along, but - as stated many times - their time has passed. Things like 40-hour work weeks are much more a function technological advancement - automation and such - than of unions.

My point is - improved working conditions would have happened regardless of the existence of the unions. Yes the unions pushed them along, but - as stated many times - their time has passed. Things like 40-hour work weeks are much more a function technological advancement - automation and such - than of unions.

If working conditions would have improved anyway, why did people fight and die in attempts to unionize? Why didn’t they just sit back, relax, and wait for the good times to come? Oh, they would have come later? How much later? And how do you know? Any real world examples?

Seems to me you’re bending history and human nature to fit in with your wishful-thinking philosophy.

+1000 alph

“If working conditions would have improved anyway, why did people fight and die in attempts to unionize?”

They were down with the communist struggle.

No packman, you are not a “freak anamoly.” Just part of a shrinking group.

Most people I know work OT, don’t have pensions, and really aren’t paid very well and have expensive “benefits.”

As for getting “skills” most people would like to. Doesn’t mean they have access to do it.

Doesn’t mean they have access to do it.

The law requires that educational institutions not discriminate by race, sex, religion, etc. Thus yes - they do have access.

No, they don’t.

Packman,

If everyone were to acquire “skills,” then the pay for those “skilled” jobs would drop because of the excess labor.

I’ll have to respectfully disagree with you about pay increasing over time. How does that work?

You get your pay and benefits because non-union employers have to compete with union employers. If a union job offered better pay and benefits, wouldn’t you apply for that job instead of the non-union job?

The non-union workers have been riding the coattails of the union workers for a long, long time.

Like rats on a sinking ship, the capitalists (executives, bankers and financiers) have forced the workers to turn on each other. You have much more in common with a UAW worker than with Lloyd Blankfein.

What part of that don’t people get?

IMO, the problem with unions is not the corruption, but the fact that it’s political. Union officials are subject to elections and that always involves pandering to the largest voting bloc. That usually is the unskilled portion of the membership(one man, one vote). They are also the most disgruntled group with the least challenging/boring positions. Contracts are negotiated to protect and placate with little emphasis paid to performance and incentive.

Agree about the political piece, but in this neck of the woods, it usually is entwined with corruption:
Tony Forte goin’ down
Here’s the indictment.

Seriously, WTF. Can we stop the personal attacks here? Geez.

My response to this particular poster was pretty mild (IMO), and the point is he’s sadly lacking any historical perspective. I stand by that point.

I stand by that point and also the one that is, most of you are spouting off about certain unions. Not all unions are uaw-ish etc. And although there are and have been certain egregious acts in the past, probably the future, they pale by comparison to Wall Street, the Fed and so forth that you are conveniently forgetting. WHY?

BTW, unions would never have had to be formed in the first place, if not for unscrupulous owners/ corporate/mgmnt liars,thieves,thugs who still to this day refuse to pay ( offshore-lockups) and have safe working conditions. As long as the owners/shareholders/corporate get their every last Scrooge-like penny/schilling/farthing, they don’t give a rats butt how they get it.

Sure, because we know there are no corrupt unions or leaders. Sure. the union leaders care about their workers and never rob the funds or run companies into the ground.

Unions worked real well for our domestic auto industry didn’t they?

What are you, some MoveOn.org flunkee?

What are you, some MoveOn.org flunkee?

What are you? Someone who names himself after someone he purports to hate? Obsess much? You should read some Freud. (You’ll probably have to read some when you get to high school.)

Clearly another coward in hiding which begets the question…

Why must keyboard tough guys hide behind an alternate username? Meeting them in person would never happen as they’d be too scared.

The car companies screwed themselves when they told Williams Edward Deming to take a hike.

Look him up. A perfect example of arrogance and pride leading to ultimate destruction… of American car companies.

Back to the closure of that mill- do you think that maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with too much supply and lack of demand.

Just a thought.

At one time the unions served an important purpose. I’m not sure they do now though.

If jobs continue to be offshored and wages eroded, unions should be able to maintain or even increase their relevancy.

To do so, however, unions need to stop their internal bloat and corruption, and expand their reach into white collar sectors.

Bill in Carolina,

Right, here in Oregon, things were so bad just in Feb., they didn’t KNOW where to set prices for dimensional lumber!?

I mean, they really didn’t! When there’s no bids..?

Bids? No one’s building. Down here there
is an nothing being built. NOTHING.

To do so, however, unions need to stop their internal bloat and corruption.

Just like the greedy banksters and mgmt, the unions today exist only to maximize their own profits period. Who’s the greedy biatch now?

unions need to stop their internal bloat and corruption, and expand their reach into white collar sectors.

You’re asking for the tooth fairy. Let me explain something. Work is supposed to be a voluntary exchange of time and effort for money. If workers are in a situation where they have no economic choice but to work in substandard conditions, then there has already been a severe distortion of the free market in labor. Introducing a union into the picture only adds a new bureaucracy and a new bunch of fat cats. True, existing workers may benefit from unions, but at the expense of freezing out more new people from the workforce.

The real answer is to do away with the distortions which gave too much power to corporate bosses in the first place.

“Just maybe, it has something to do with too much supply and lack of demand”

That, and the converse too, as it needed chips from other mills and loggers who do cleanup and I think they were having trouble getting those the way they used to.

Plus Missoula is not a good location for shipping anymore if you’re not using the railroads.

The real answer is to do away with the distortions which gave too much power to corporate bosses in the first place.
And Safety concerns.

Also to Montana’s comment,

shipping anymore if you’re not using the railroads.

This speaks directly to one of our issues and getting infrastructure up to modern standards. Why is Germany/France excelling at Mass transit via high speed railways? and we are “the biggest and best country in the world” puff puff, and yet we are so behind the curve with all our corporate buffoonery?
Corps and lobbyists for corps would rather spend a buck on SPA trips than into making SURE we are indeed the biggest and best.

Let me explain something.

Let me explain something.

Your onanistic free market wet dreams gave us innovations such as child labor, unsafe factories, and seven day work weeks. The modern conventions of the workplace — things we largely take for granted — were brought about for all workers because of the unions’ power in an earlier era. The almighty invisible hand doesn’t look out for the little guy. It will not in the future.

Do serious issues exist with unions? Of course; I’ve never claimed otherwise. But unions have had and can continue to have a vital role in balancing out the corporate urge toward profit-at-all-costs.

I’ve come to the conclusion that the existence of unions is a sypmtom of a larger cancer, that being the oversupply of unskilled labor, forced upon the citizens by an aristocracy that allows too much immigration and too little and too expensive education. The purpose of unions is to artificially withhold the supply of labor. Certainly someone has to get the minerals out of the ground; it should be prohibited from being anyone’s livelihood. And before anyone starts screaming about collectivism and Fidel’s marching everyone out to the sugar cane fields, there can be a middle ground. Maybe high school graduates can work in the mines for a year or two and then get a full scholarship for two year technical training, and then maybe they’ll be able to MAINTAIN the machines that other persons, educated in something other than liberal arts, DESIGN so that the process becomes less inhumane. Or we could just outright buy slaves. I prefer the former.

well, chili give up your credit, your ownership of property, your 5 day work week, your safe working conditions, your 8 hr work day, your insurance, holidays, weekends off, and so on.
Give em up, Go tell your employer (unless it is you) that you will work straight through and by the way, tell the employer that lighting and heat or ac isn’t important to you either. Nor is ventilation.

“The almighty invisible hand doesn’t look out for the little guy. It will not in the future.”

Unions can only be successful when the invisible hand is working in their favour. If workers aren’t receiving benefits (wages, work conditions, etc) in keeping with the market, then they can organize to rectify the imbalance. If the benefits are already in line with the market, then any success in negotiations will cost jobs in the long run. The invisible hand always works, we just don’t always like the outcomes.

“well, chili give up your credit, your ownership of property, your 5 day work week, your safe working conditions, your 8 hr work day, your insurance, holidays, weekends off, and so on.
Give em up, Go tell your employer (unless it is you) that you will work straight through and by the way, tell the employer that lighting and heat or ac isn’t important to you either. Nor is ventilation.”

unions are like the pedahpile priest…let’s forgive him for all the good he has done.

not.

“Nor is ventilation”

Oh come on now guys, please, just stop.

Besides, not 6 months ago we were forming a “jumping in” circle to kick the living tar out of FB’s and Loanowners ( which is what they were known as at the time ) and all of a sudden everyone wants to The Amurrrikan Worker’s Hero?

Please, stop, it’s embarrassing.

unions are like the pedahpile priest…let’s forgive him for all the good he has done.

not.

Really? that is what you got?

Please, stop, it’s embarrassing

I agree. The ‘unions never done nothin good ever’ knuckleheads are embarassing. I guess that’s what happens when you learn history from Rush.

r (dammit)

The invisible hand always works, we just don’t always like the outcomes.

I agree that the invisible hand should always work for some interested party.

When the rules are stacked against so many, however, is it even fair to say the invisible hand can operate effectively?

mariner22,

Actually I spoke w/ them early this year and… a LOT of mgrs. have been forced to alter their fee structure so you may well be right?

Personally I think it’s great that he’s been able to turn things around but going off of 2008, it was as much a disaster for him as it was for anyone else in the biz.

My main reservation is that he ( like his father Irwin ) go about things w/ such a sense of conviction. They have a tendency to see what they ‘want’ to see! If you’ll recall his father was one of the great all-time tax evaders and he went to prison for it. Not ‘that’ is conviction!

They have a tendency to see what they ‘want’ to see!

Which goes so well with the Above dialogue prior to this.

but I feel bad asking for the money back…

In conversation, just ask if her finances are looking better than the were XXX months ago (when you loaned it to her). Hopefully she’ll get the hint. If not, you can press the issue, and ask when she thinks she’ll be in a position to pay you back.

It’s been said many times on this blog, but lending money to friends/family usually is a bad idea. It’s best to simply treat it as a gift, and be pleasantly surprised if you are paid back.

“… but I feel bad about asking for the money back.”

You need to get past this feeling if you want your money.

“I lent money to a good friend of mine earlier this year…”

A good friend would pay you back.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou

i never loan friends money…i just give it to them.

Ask for something other than money

Captain Credit Crunch,

Don’t laugh. There’s been an investigation ( again on Craigslist ) of opportunists preying on vulnerable women in a sex for rent scam.

I ‘did’ think though that drumminj’s “XXX months ago” comment was something of a Freudian slip though?

iftheshoefits,

Same goes for relatives. I will say though that one of our best friends had their car broke into while visiting their in-laws in the nicest part of town.

As usual they didn’t intend to stay long so she left her purse in the car ( locked ) and came out to a smashed window! We’re passing the hat for them but truthfully, they’ve done so much for US over the years, I just hope we can salvage their Christmas, that’s all.

DinOR

I will never understand why people dont get full glass ocverage on cars…its cheap and all you need is one claim like this every 10 years and it pays for itself…

plus criminals seem to know you are broke when they smash your window.

“criminals seem to know you are broke”

LOL, spoken like a true New Yorker! She had the Xmas $’s in her purse ( about $300 ) but what really hurt was she had her SS card and DL in there too!

To this day I NEVER understood why anyone would carry a SS card with them.

Even when i apply for jobs i don’t bring it… i guard it with my life…when i do bring it its usually in a vinyl zippered bag with my papers, some fresh donuts and a soda hangin out in it …..never in my wallet

Muggers don’t take fresh donuts?

But sometime in the next 12-18 months, it likely that the downtown Austin condo market will sell out completely.

To which I say: Come look at the once highly touted downtown Chicago condo market, the place where every Midwesterner without a chaw in his mouth allegedly wants to live.

The sales have dried up, and there’s six years of unsold new condo inventory downtown (source: Crain’s Chicago), nevermind all the “pre-owned” stuff.

nearing an inflection point

Is that what you do in a church.. oh excuuuuse me, genuflection, Which just might be the same thing!

I have only had the full sized, but very familiar with the small ones. Their size is only suited for perhaps one or two people in cramped quarters.

LOL

My friend I stayed with started a load every morning before she left for work.

A ha, thank you Skip. It’s nice to get some new information. Sounds like the Manhattan plan. Few people in Manhattan truly cook. They just go to the deli.

I rented an apartment in Rome that had a washer and dryer. The dryer was not vented. There was a bin to collect the extracted water that had to be emptied after every load. We were just glad to avoid laundromats and didn’t mind washing/drying smaller loads.

My European friends (Germany) have a large condo with a utility room but only have a small Italian front loader washer, NO dryer even though they could easily afford one. When I mentioned a dryer, it wasn”t anywhere on their “wish list” as they considered it damaging to their clothes. They hang all laundry out to dry on those accordion like thingies. I know for sure they’ve owned some of the t-shirts they wear for 5+ years, and they still look great due to gentler handling.

They definitely have smaller wardrobes. They buy fewer but higher quality items than we tend to. If you ever browse in stores over there, except for places like H&M, you’ll see the prices are much higher. (Comparison shop imported brands… whew, a revelation, and the reason I always bring them Levis or similar for presents.)

Also, they aren’t the hard-core shoppers we are… shops in many places are open much more limited hours than we are used to (closed Sundays, few open evening hours, etc.). So if they have a day job there is less of an “opportunity” to shop. They make a big grocery / necessities trip every Saturday and buy at the green grocer, baker and butcher during the week.

That’s interesting WHYoung, because i heard (NPR?) some guy saying that one of the problems with the european union operating as a single business entity was that it was so culturally dissimilar and he used as an example washing machines. He said that because Italians lived in smaller quarters and had smaller but nicer wardrobes, they preferred small front loaders and no dryers. However, Germans have larger dwellings and larger, more casual wardrobes (much like Americans he claimed), and therefore preferred full-sized washers and dryers.

Maybe your friends are nontypical? Or maybe the guy is full of it. (When I lived in London, I had a full-sized POS front-loader and a clothes line.)

Not sure if my friends are unusual, but doubt it… their utility room is shared (because of the plumbing) by the co-owners and there was one washer for each unit but no dryers, even though other owners are families.

While I’m not doubting there is a market for dryers there, it was mostly the “why in the world would we ever want a dryer” attitude that stuck in my mind. When I first met him 20 years ago (as a grad student in the US) he kvetched about the lack of clothes lines in the student housing and thought that the dryers ruined his clothes.

I think Germans might be a bit more like us in some of their ways/tastes, partly because of the military bases there. The woman in this German couple grew up in a town, next to a big American AFB, that catered to our troops. Spent her childhood eating McD’s, going to English language movies, etc.

Yeah, I don’t know, I’ve never spent enough time in Germany to get a feel for their washing machine situation and habits, just repeating what I heard. The guy may have been stretching to make a point. I’m sure he’s right in other ways, like I doubt the avg italian drinks the same beer/wine as the avg german, but that’s another topic.

Agreed, different countries, different tastes, and not sure washer/dryer habits matter much…

My German friends use one of their storage rooms as a wine cellar, mostly full of Italian and French wines, but partly I think because they love reds and stocking up at the co-ops is also cheaper. On the road trip road trip I took with them last August, the car was full to bursting with French wines on the way back.

Can I come visit your friends?

I had that situation, sounded like a freight train rolling through the living room when the washer went into spin cycle. I told my LL about it she raised hell with the guy from Sears when he came to look at it.
“Get that POS outta my apt. yadda yadda”.

Turns out it was a packaging bolt that hadn’t been removed by the DIY installers. It’s a stack unit, it’s OK for now but when I get me own place I’ve got my eyes on a beautiful side-by-side whirlpool rig. Oh yeah.

I’ve seen the washer-dryer in one unit jobs, but do not trust.

x-philly,

Exactly, and that ’should’ have been our cue? When you have to “brace” the damn thing just to move it ( presumably cuzz’ it’s so high-tech! ) it should have been a flag right there.

There are automotive size springs that suspend the whole thing w/ heavy duty ’shocks’ below to keep the whole drum free floating. We had problems w/ ours from Day 1.

We bought two full size stackables for the
pantry so my wife wouldn’t have to go down
stairs. Very efficient units and they have little bells that sound the cycles. They are so
quiet that you don’t even know they are running.

I love my water-wasting, non-European, full size top loader. There will never be a water shortage here in northern Illinois, so why should I care? Usually we have too much of the stuff actually. And fresh water keeps coming down from the sky, as this thing called rain. It’s truly baffling to me that people around here bother trying to conserve water with front loading washers. Penny wise, and pound foolish.

Two points Chris:
- Not all places are like Illinois. Some places actually *do* have occasional water shortages - like California - the most populated state in the country.
- That water has to be heated, so water isn’t the only resource you’re using more of.

And fresh water keeps coming down from the sky, as this thing called rain.

And Packman notes correctly, so far 1.6 “so far this yr..09.

Yet, 22 ” in NOL. Wow. Imagine that. whew.

Water shortages are a local problem. Yet the push for water conservation seems to be a national one. And people like my mom fall for it, and buy an expensive and unreliable washer to “do their part”. So much entertainment is produced in California, and their views tend to be desertocentric. I’ve even seen public service type announcements on kids’ channels like Nickelodeon. I have to re-educate my kids - there is no water shortage here! We don’t live in the desert. Don’t worry about it! How exactly does my water usage affect Californians 2000 miles away? All the water I use goes down the Mississippi, into the ocean, and eventually into the clouds to fall as rain again.

I concede the point about hot water. Yes my washer does use more energy that way. I am actually pretty conservative about the hot water. I try to run the washer on “cold”, and I turn off the shower while I soap up. I also get on my kids’ case, since otherwise they’ll just stand in the shower for 15 minutes. I tell them to just fill up the tub if they want to soak in the hot water. When they’re done, I leave the tub full for a few hours, to transfer all that heat energy to the air in my house.

Natural gas really is a limited resource. And it’s the best source of heat for residences. Yet California wastes huge amounts of it on electric power generation. I guess because they’re too touchy for coal or nuclear. This does affect me, since there will be that much less fuel for heating when it’s -10F outside here.

It was a Sears Kenmore, in the $500 range on sale.

We really like the stackable/front loaders in concept, very space efficient and water and energy miserly. But if you need a new one every 4-5 years, not very sustainable, is it?

I just bought DW a washer and dryer in the Kenmore Elite series. I am almost ashamed how much I paid, but they are nice. They play a little song for you when they are done and you can steam clean and actually hang clothes in the dryer! I have to buy detergent with the “HE” on the box though…

Best money I ever spent…

Normal washers use between 30-40 gallons a wash cycle, the new efficient ones use 7. Our
units cost about $2,600 and it’s worth it for me since my wife loves them….We’re on a well too, with water that’s the best we’ve ever tasted.

Which brand?

I was looking at Whirlpool and LG

LG with the optional SS insides, well worth
the money. Compared to old style washers
and dryers, these units are from Star Wars.

They are so quiet that I didn’t even know they
were on when I was right next to the door to
the pantry.

I was thinking I’d look for front loaders that you find in a laundromat. Just not sure if the dryers share a heat source? Figure they would last forever in a home environment.

Frigidaire Gallery SS Washer and non-SS Dryer bought over 5 years ago. Energy Star, quiet, low energy usage, reliable. We recommend!

Tankxs!

packman,

That lept out at me too. Should read: “As our… comfort level w/ risk increases and the coast is clear, we’ll ‘think’ about taking our heads out of the sand!”

Until then..?

Well, where’s the help in that? Talk about Sunshine Soldiers.

Bank of Obama, fully unionized of course. Business hours 10-2 on weekdays with a 45 minute lunch for all at 11:30. Closed weekends, customer support lines available 9-3 M-Thurs. All with the warmth and customer service found at the post office.

Will lend to anyone with a pulse. If you can pay the money back, great, if not, don[t worry about it, we have a a $100 bill printing press in the back and can cover it.

Make $15K a year but want an Escalade? No problem, you’re approved!!

On welfare and need a new iPhone? Here’s your “loan” wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

Unemployed with no desire to get a job and need a $750K mortgage? Here’s your contract. Congratulations home owner, here are the keys to your sweet new pad. And hey, again if you can’t pay us back…printing machine.

“Too Big to Fail” should not exist. If you are that big, then the government should be all over you in terms of regulation, so much so that there will be an incentive to break up big companies.

If you are smaller, you are on your own.

Hey Eddie YOU worked at Chase Manhattan Bank in the early 90’s….????? Sounds exactly like them

——————————————
Bank of Obama, fully unionized of course. Business hours 10-2 on weekdays with a 45 minute lunch for all at 11:30. Closed weekends, customer support lines available 9-3 M-Thurs. All with the warmth and customer service found at the post office.

It’s not really Obama’s credibility that’s the problem. The President’s agenda has been sidelined mainly by 1)too-big-to-fail and 2)4-5 backstabbing Senators. And that’s really all. If he can survive this, he’ll be looking very good by 2012.

oxide,

Maybe that’s half the problem? Stop worrying about a second term and knuckle under w/ what it’s going to take to get us to Friday!

You’ll recall while I’ve never really subscribed to “the… failed… policies… of… the… LAST… eight… years..,” ( I’ve certainly not blamed B.O for the current debacle in the slightest? )

I don’t think any of us can afford to the luxury of thinking passed our next paycheck, right now anyway. If he’s the wonder kid he ran on, four years should be ample.

four years should be ample.

Depends on how many he has gunning against him/policies ala lie berman etc and every other NOrepublican, as well as the spineless Dino’s dems in name only.
Not saying I am pleased, but listening to some in this new crowd of faux noise listeners, they would throw their mother into the fire at first instance.

I’m picturing Alice from the Dilbert cartoon strip saying, “Must…control…fist…of…death!”

Oh, i was the same way alena. By the way, the link I posted above has both the transcript and the video, so you can see arrogance in action.

You know, I really hope that Obama or one of his staff his listening to this. I guess I’m not a nice person, because I want this attitude to be punished, and hard.

I don’t understand why anchors don’t get some balls and ask “is the smug attitude and contempt for the average citizen a prerequisite for furthering one’s career as a banker?”

It’s always about ME with Barry. Only HE can save the world. It’s all Bush’s fault. The man has lied and broken every campaign promise. It’s the Chicago way of politics.

Did you hear him today? Just pass SOMETHING to save HIS Presidency. Just cut deals to get it done. Screw the fact that 61% of us don’t want this. Screw the fact that this bill is pure fantasy and will end ruin our healthcare system. Screw the fact that is does nothing about tort reform or reducing healthcare costs by allowing interstate choice. Screw the fact that he wants to cut a minimum of half a trillion from medicare. Screw the fact that he knows he is playing accounting games with putting off the benefits for years while starting the taxes now.

Screw the fact the deficit is going up 2 trillion dollars a year.

Where’s the CHANGE?

“Screw the fact that 61% of us don’t want this.”

Link, please. I call horsesh!t on this statement.

You’re a little fuzzy on who those 61% are.

Maybe 61% of those elected, but those #s don’t jibe with all of American citizenry, especially those w/o jobs.

But apparently Obama thinks it is the lifeblood of small business. He’s not alone.

Guess it depends on what is the definition of “long run”.

I meant to say *waitress, and it’s not real… You can easily spot fakes b/c of stitching quality, symmetry in the patterns and other qualities… Trust me, she was not wearing the real deal

Still, is that a problem? that it wasn’t real? Everything we have is a knockoff of some sort. Note cell phones, fashion, cars you name it, it was designed and improved on and certainly made in a much cheaper price point.

The problem is not that is was fake; the issue I have is some of these wanna be millionares that all snobby and douchey, but dont’ have anything to back it up with… and pretend to be ‘rich’ and ‘glamorous’ by wearing fake stuff or max out credit cards with a single item… when actually talk to most of them, you realize they work in retail at the mall, are waiters/waitresses and have 4 roommates b/c they cant afford a place…

Not keen on snobbery, arrogance, and douchery at any juncture. Agreed.

louis vuitton. those brown vinyl-leather-ish handbags with gold letters LV on them.

That’s the monogram design… there’s more than that!

And it’s not vynil, it’s canvas, but they also have other materials…

Thanks Brett. I personally don’t know the difference.

I blame my mother for knowing these things

Every time I hear Louis Vitton all I can think of is the song “Swap Meet Louie” by Sir Mix Alot.

Oh DD you are so out of touch with reality. First you need ADULTS in HR to actually think about things like that. a 22 year old Brittney clone wouldn’t have the foggiest idea what you are talking about.

This would be my First edict as King: the oldest person in your company does the interviewing. No more 22 yo Brittney’s or Courtney’s or Amber’s…

You must have a qualified Adult to screen resumes and do the hiring.

when i was 21 and applied for my first tv job the chief engineer was 62 and I had to convince him that i could show up at 530 am and sign on the transmitter before i got the keys.

But today even If i give bouncy little Chloe a cd with all the latest rap and hip hop songs she still has no clue about what the job entails…and figures i’m too old anyway…

————————————————-
one- company- should be looking at finding out why, 1st, before dismissing applicants.