December 19, 2009

Bits Bucket For December 19, 2009

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Comment by MightyMike
2009-12-19 06:04:58

Check this out:


Citi’s holiday treat: No foreclosures for a month
By Hibah Yousuf, staff reporterDecember 17, 2009: 5:18 PM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — Citigroup will suspend foreclosures and evictions for 30 days, giving 4,000 at-risk borrowers a break during the holiday season, the company said Thursday.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/12/17/news/companies/Citigroup_mortgage_suspension/index.htm

——————–
Isn’t that nice? Christmas provides an excuse for not foreclosing.

Comment by WHYoung
2009-12-19 06:28:39

Nice PR… try to make an overwhelmed backlog look like a benevolence.

Comment by combotechie
2009-12-19 06:47:54

Extend & Pretend. Delay & Pray. Meanwhile:

1) The house remains occupied which benifits the bank. An empty house loses it’s value fast. This lost value puts downward pressure not only on the value of that house but also on the value of neighboring houses, some of which the bank may hold mortgages on.

2) Hope is extended to other FBs that the bottom is in. Nobody wants to sell at the bottom therefore a FB on the margin will struggle to keep up with his payments rather than walk away and leave another empty house to the bank.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 06:57:43

“The house remains occupied which benefits the bank.”

I wonder about how much, given countervailing forces on the household’s incentives for maintenance:

1) Always good to have an occupant to keep out vandals and vermin.

2) But FBs who stick around presumably stopped paying their loans because they can no longer afford the payments (otherwise, they would have already walked). This suggests less money available for necessary repairs.

3) On the countervailing side, not having to send those pesky monthly mortgage payments on to the debt collection agency could free up an awful lot of home repair money.

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Comment by Stpn2me
2009-12-19 07:05:43

giving 4,000 at-risk borrowers a break during the holiday season<

And THEN what? Back to reality? There really is no Santa?

 
Comment by combotechie
2009-12-19 07:07:24

As long as the FB is presented with eternally springing hope that he is close to the end of his never-ending nightmare he will have the incentive to struggle as much as necessary to keep the house.

And the cheerleaders that will extend to him this hope is our dear friends in the NAR.

Love the NAR; They’re the folks that are spending THEIR OWN MONEY in an effort to convince FBs that their decision to buy RE was a good one.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-12-19 07:35:31

But how many people will spend on maintenance if they’re going to lose the house anyway? And even though everyone says budget $xxx/month for maintenance, this ISN’T how it goes. More like 6 months of nothing, then $500. I’m guessing that those anticipating foreclosure won’t be enthused by the idea of dropping a big chunk of money on a house that they know in their heart of hearts they’re likely to lose. If they can simply not use the upstairs bathroom there’s a fair chance that’s what they’ll do.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 07:52:05

“As long as the FB is presented with eternally springing hope that he is close to the end of his never-ending nightmare he will have the incentive to struggle as much as necessary to keep the house”.

Which is basically the same course our nation follows. Winning and losing are a part of reality. People love winners and to win, loss and losing are not desirous so instead of facing reality many people hope that change will come along and they won’t have to deal the natural occurrences that come about when mistakes are made. At least that’s how I see it.

 
Comment by polly
2009-12-19 13:17:29

I’d say the soon to be forclosed upon are not going to spend a lot on fixing stuff, but they will keep the heat and the electricity on, and that is a fairly big deal.

 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-12-21 10:16:46

3) It hoses people who can afford to pay off the house by rewarding FB’s who aren’t making their payments.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 06:54:01

If C kicks the can down the road long enough, green shoots of economic recovery might put all their FBs back in positions where they can resume feeding their alligators before mass extinction wipes out the toxic loan swamp.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-12-19 07:00:19

Hey $hitttybanky-poo…how about never raising CC rates arbitrarily if you are a perfect customer, who never paid late, incurred any over-limit, late fees or who never took a cash advance… That would be a relief to know.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-12-19 13:32:34

But aNYCdj, everyone knows that corporations wouldn’t possibly try to prey upon their own customers!

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-12-21 10:21:53

But you are a responsible person, and those types of people MUST be punished. That is the only lesson that will come out of this whole mess.

 
 
 
Comment by mikey
2009-12-19 06:21:25

Adding it all up…just a thought.

The cost of living is rising in many states due to hidden taxes, sur-charges and increases in services costs being attached to telephone bills, energy bills and additional fees that were once included in regular utility bills associated with owning or renting. In Wisconsin, hardworking ordinary people are paying for stupid stadiums that they didn’t want to paying District Attorney’s saleries through their monthly heating and cooling bills.

This isn’t counting rising fees from everything to include increases in auto registrations to battery and tire disposal impact fees. 43 cents here, $25 here, this crap adds up in the montly and yearly cost of living nut. An addital proposed snow tax removal here and a inner-city tire/road tax like the City of Milwaukee and all of this crap adds up fast.

The above items aren’t all inclusive of course but just a thought about the shift of additional “Fees”, surtaxes and service taxes above above and beyond property and income taxes are quickly piling up on j6p and family in this state. Make no mistake, all of these “Fees and hidden Taxes here and there do ADD UP.

What’s next and how are the “Fees, Surtaxes and service “Taxes” in your state adding up to your montly nut to the State, local Gov’t or businesses ?

State DA surcharge now hitting We Energies bills
By Thomas Content of the Journal Sentinel

Posted: Dec. 18, 2009

47¢Monthly cost of the district attorney fee for residential customers. It will drop to 26 cents starting in July.

$1.07Monthly cost for small businesses. It will drop to 57 cents in July.

The state-authorized surcharge on electric bills to pay for district attorney salaries is now hitting utility bills of We Energies customers.

The Milwaukee utility is the last of the investor-owned utilities in the state to begin collecting the surcharge. The increase took effect with bills processed on Thursday, utility spokesman Brian Manthey said.

For residential customers, the fee amounts to 47 cents a month. The fee will drop to 26 cents a month for the fiscal year that starts in July.

Small businesses will pay $1.07 a month beginning now and 57 cents a month beginning in July. Factories can expect to pay $29.53 a month starting this week, and $15.83 a month beginning in July, the utility said.

*** Rush job rant — Once again not responsible for spelling, grammer or any resonable logic***

mikey ;)

http://tinyurl.com/yl9xqk5

Comment by Eau Claire Dude AKA Fresno Dude
2009-12-19 07:12:57

I live in Wisconsin and I do not mind paying taxes because I escaped California like a rat leaving a sinking ship. California did not spend the needed tax money to keep their ship afloat. It’s like this Great Recession (?! Great Depression II) where we thought we were entitled to all the material goods we could cram into our McMansions. Californians voted for material goods from the government, but does not want to pay for them. The schools are now just ahead of Mississippi, there is a very high recidivism rate for prisons and three strikes and you are out means the prisons are becoming an old folks home. They are more interested in being punitive and keeping ex-inmates down rather than in rehabilitation, making them productive members of society. That’s better than keeping them in prison with all that expense, rather like the schools there. The roads are terrible. They have half the number of State workers dealing with environmental issues than other states etc. The Democrats made too big a ship and the Republicans refuse to spend what it takes to keep it afloat. The ship maintenance was continually put off. It slowed up (business) from all the barnacles growing on it and no fuel for propulsion (like schools, roads and prisons)

Comment by eudemon
2009-12-19 08:19:37

“three strikes and you are out means the prisons are becoming an old folks home.”

Interesting comment. There are at least a few days’ worth of threads that those of us here should write about on said subject, Eau Claire Dude.

Rather than pay to live on a sea-locked ocean liner, why not commit some crimes and live for free alongside your peers? Meals are covered, as are utilities and maintenance.

If you’re too old and poor to get out and about, what’s the difference where you are effectively locked up?

 
Comment by Terry
2009-12-19 10:38:03

I also live in Wisconsin. The problem here in Vilas County is that we don’t tax tourists enough.
We need tourists to pay for our roads, our glutted city staff and county employees.
We need drunk drivers to fill our enormous jail and pay fees and fines. Gotta support our over staffed police departments and pay for all those court employees.
We need tourists to pay our room tax, both city and County.
We need tourists to pay our high food prices, along with an average of 5 cents a gallon more for gasoline.
We need tourist to buy vacation homes, so we can raise on water property taxes to fund our schools. We have the best schools in the state.
We need tourists cars to break down so we can rip them off in repairs.
We need tourists to rent boats, snowmobiles to fund our trail system.
Can you blame us?
Somebody has to pay for our 108 bed jail, our 28million dollar new high school, our relatively new 8 million dollar grade school,
our newly remodeled court house and our renovated downton area.
Come on up. Eat drink and be merry. Will gladly take your money!

Comment by tresho
2009-12-19 13:21:21

Come on up. Eat drink and be merry. Will gladly take your money! That attitude is part of so many areas dependent on tourist $.

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Comment by SaladSD
2009-12-19 11:40:57

Well, it’s just a simple fact
When I want something
And I don’t want to pay for it
I walk right through the door
Walk right through the door
Hey, all right!
If I get by, it’s mine
Mine all mine!

–Jane’s Addiction

Comment by Jim A.
2009-12-19 12:16:03

I pointed out to somebody that a song about shoplifting might not be the best thing to play in his store, and he replied, “Hey, the song is ‘Been CAUGHT stealing.’”

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Comment by measton
2009-12-19 15:47:24

You might want to look at wisconsin finances. I think Wi made the top 10 list of states in the most trouble.

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-12-19 07:14:03

Here in da Beeg Apple…They estimate between 16-20% of my electric bills go to pay for Con Ed’s real estate taxes…

The cost of living is rising in many states due to hidden taxes,

 
Comment by cashedin05
2009-12-19 07:56:12

I may be on crack, but I remember sales taxes holding steady at 5 - 6% for most of my life until about the mid 90’s, it then become popular to add a half cent here and a quarter cent there for every pet project. How did we make it for so many years with the lower tax rates and fees? Here in Arizona they are proposing a “temporary” 1 cent sales tax increase to fill the almost 2 Billion Dollar deficit. It’s out of control.

Comment by combotechie
2009-12-19 08:16:46

“How did we make it so many years with the lower tax rates and fees?”

By borrowing via municipal bonds?

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-12-19 18:08:16

“How did we make it so many years with the lower tax rates and fees?”

Because state/local governments were a lot smaller (for example, no Medicaid and not much spending on special needs students back then). In addition, pay scales were at or below the prevailing pay for the area, not higher like they are now. And no one got a pension equal to their top salary after just 20 years on the job.

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Comment by MightyMike
2009-12-19 13:02:54

It should also be mentioned that sales taxes are regressive taxes. People with low incomes pay a higher percentage of their incomes in sales taxes than high income folks.

Comment by Matt_in_TX
2009-12-19 21:21:13

That’s alright: the wealthy (defined as those who still own their loans) apparently will pay a lot of the health care overhaul cost routed through medicaid.

Except for Warren Buffet, who lives in Nebraska ;)

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-12-19 13:39:39

Come on Mikey, you want us to be like Europe where they pay those crazy high taxes and get nothing for it but free basic health care, excellent mass transit and free or heavily subsidized universities that your average student can afford?

What are you, some kinda damn socialeest/commie?

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-12-21 10:32:01

Dis is ‘merica, where the guy with the gold makes the rules and robs you in the process!

Bless the bidness leaders of ‘merica!

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 06:40:51

Top 7 insane homeowners association rules.
No more than 14 roses? No smoking in your own home? After a homeowners association told a Virginia vet he couldn’t hang a flag, even Obama sympathized.

1. Thou shalt not plant too many roses
A Rancho Santa Fe, California, homeowners’ association targeted Jeffery DeMarco for exceeding the prescribed number of rose bushes allowed on his four-acre property. When DeMarco balked, the HOA levied monthly fines, threatened foreclosure, and ultimately defeated DeMarco in court. After a judge ruled that the willful rose enthusiast had violated the community’s architecture design rules, DeMarco was forced to pay the HOA’s $70,000 legal bill — and lost his home to the bank.

http://www.theweek.com/article/index/104150/Top_7_insane_homeowners_association_rules

Comment by Stpn2me
2009-12-19 07:09:08

Which is why I want to move to the country. Why would I want to pay someone to live in my house twice? I understand about making all houses look alike for value and such, but this is a bunch of garbage. If I buy something, no one is going to tell me what the hell to do with it. Not like THAT….

Comment by combotechie
2009-12-19 07:13:51

Lol. Step, you crack me up. If the US Army isn’t an organization that is set up to control most every aspect of a person’s life then I don’t know what organization is.

Comment by Stpn2me
2009-12-19 08:42:04

If the US Army isn’t an organization that is set up to control most every aspect of a person’s life then I don’t know what organization is.

Then you dont know what one is. The military’s influence stops at my front door. How you cant make that distinction I dont know.

Liberals are too quick to give up rights to someone else in exchange for financial safety nets and not being responsible for anything….

Liberal ideology and Political Correctness is tearing this country apart at a snail’s pace…

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Comment by combotechie
2009-12-19 09:24:33

“The military’s influence stops at my front door. How you can’t make that distinction, I don’t know.”

When I served, many, many years ago, I was told:

What to wear and when to wear it, and what not to wear.

Where I could go, how far I could go, and where I couldn’t go, if I could go at all.

Where I would sleep, when I could sleep, when I couldn’t sleep.

When and what I would eat.

What I would do and when and how I would do it.

How my bed was to be made. How my footlocker would be arranged. How my hair was to be cut.

How to talk and what to say (as in “yes, sir”)

Etc.

All enforceable by the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which served in the place of the U.S. Constitution.

 
Comment by laurel, md
2009-12-19 09:30:14

Conservatives are too quick to give up rights to someone else in exchange for biblical mandatory nets and not being responsible for trying to improve the country….

Conservative ideology and Political Know-Notingness is tearing this country apart at a snail’s pace…

 
Comment by Lip
2009-12-19 10:00:18

laurel, md,

huh? “Conservatives are too quick to give up rights to someone else - - -.”

An explanation of what you mean would be appreciated because if I’m not mistaken, the Dems are on their way to passing a bill that will eventually lead to the domination of the whole healthcare system. Once you give the government the right to decide who gets what medical care, you’re giving up a whole bunch of freedom.

 
Comment by eudemon
2009-12-19 10:26:25

I thought that during the past 100+ years that women, blacks and gays have been fighting for equality and individual rights. This includes housing.

Now, it seems many are willing to give up any and all gains in deference and homage to political dogma, of all things.

Did I miss something here?

I don’t get it. Is it mass insanity, or am I the one who is nuts?

 
Comment by oxide
2009-12-19 10:39:14

Once you give the government the right to decide who gets what medical care,

We’re already there. Only now, it’s the private companies which have the right…and they have the profit motive to deny everything. And that’s if you can afford insurance in the first place.

Anyway, I think Laurel was referring to the PATRIOT Act.

 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-12-19 11:38:58

Private companies in no way have the right to determine what medical care I will get. They do have the right to choose what medical care they are willing to reimburse for, how much and under what conditions. The difference is huge between that as compared to a plan run under comprehensive government edicts.

I can get whatever care I want if I’m willing to pay, which I often elect to do, for coverage outside of my plan. Conditions may apply - they always do, for everything in life. But the fact that it remains our choice is why Canadians and many others opt to come to the US at great personal expense to get care that they desperately need, and are in fact denied in their own country.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-12-19 11:51:14

And it can’t be overstated….

Conservative ideology and Political Know-Nothingness is tearing this country apart at a snail’s pace…

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-12-19 13:48:18

iftheshoefits, you seem not realize that being able to pay for any medical treatment you please means you are the minority.

The MAJORITY of us do not have that luxury. It seems someone sent few a million decent paying jobs overseas and most of those left didn’t get REAL cost of living raises. In fact, many got pay cuts while their “benefits” cost increased.

Minor details, I know.

 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-12-19 14:18:16

No, that’s not true except at the extreme margins. It’s all about life choices.

All it takes to be in what you call my “privileged” minority is to live debt-free and well within one’s means, the way our parents (who grew up in the great depression) did. My AGI is most likely in the lower quartile of the typical HBB poster by my guess. We live on less than the average family’s mortgage payment alone.

As far as those decent jobs go - tell me about it. I’ve been self-employed for 15 years. We’ve lived in temporary rented housing away from our home most of the past year because that’s where the work is. And the present regime has shown that’s nothing more than Bush squared, so it looks like we’ll keep doing the same for another year. But we’re not complaining, we’re happy to be alive and together, and we’ve held enough back to pay for health care insurance on our own terms.

Now I feel as if our frugality is going to be punished - again, in a new way, on the health care front. I don’t worry too much about it, as the government will start completely defaulting long before this travesty of “health care reform” gets out of the starting gate. What a disgrace this mess has been.

 
Comment by eudemon
2009-12-19 15:58:51

We sound like twins, shows.

My income is considerably less than half of what exeter pulls in.

Interesting that I DO NOT want federal health care, yet I’m also easily in the bottom quartile of income earners on this board.

I’ll take my chances, too, thanks.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-12-19 16:34:35

I’m having a hard time finding hard numbers, but it appears that yes, most people can’t afford to pay for any necessary medical treatment they please.

I hear horror stories all the time of insurance caps and deductibles of thousands of dollars.

But, iftheshoefits, I’m glad to hear you are doing well and wish you sincere continued good luck and congratulate you on your frugality.

 
Comment by Rancher
2009-12-19 17:33:57

It’s not so much your AGI as much as your life
style and your willingness to live within your means. Frugality is for all income levels..

I know a couple of extremely wealth individuals who are tighter than a frogs ass
when it comes to money, maybe that’s why they have a lot, and they bitch about the cost
of their premiums too.

 
Comment by eudemon
2009-12-19 18:22:54

“I’m having a hard time finding hard numbers, but it appears that yes, most people can’t afford to pay for any necessary medical treatment they please.”

I bet I make considerably less money than you, ecofeco, and I can easily afford $2,000 out of pocket for deductibles. I can cough up $5,000 easily as well.

If the average person earns $42,000 annually and cannot scrape together $5,000 to cover insurance premium costs, that’s their problem, not mine.

Maybe they should stop drinking, smoking and eating out so much. Maybe fewer trips to Disneyland and to the local nail salon would help, too. Maybe fewer romps in the sack with any dumb*ss off the street might bring their overhead costs down as well. Keep the knees closed and you don’t pay for as many diapers.

I’ve saved and done without for years. They can suck it up, too. They aren’t any more entitled than I am, which is not at all.

 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-12-19 18:48:35

Almost every government law and policy that has contributed to the housing bubble was done in the name of “making housing more affordable”. And we all know here, better than anywhere else you will find, how that turned out.

Now, we’re going to “make health care more affordable”. I wish the smart folks here that carry water for the left side would at least acknowledge that we’re going to unleash a tsunami of new, untried, perverse economic incentives into the health care industry. If history is any guide, there is a real likelihood that the outcome here will ultimately be much the same as we see in housing. And the “evil” health insurers will grow even more powerful and corrupt along the way - that’s about the only safe bet at this point.

 
Comment by Matt_in_TX
2009-12-19 21:26:58

I my recent rate, that $5000 will pay for 10 hours in the hospital.

 
Comment by eudemon
2009-12-20 02:18:21

And?

About a year ago, I had a severe migraine headache. Went to the hospital via ambulance. Cost me $1400+ out of pocket for about 3 hours of attention.

I could have elected to stay home and tough it out, but at the risk of having a dehabilitating stroke. That $1,400 was worth every penny (especially to our pals, the tort lawyers).

That money was better spent there than on some hedonistic trip to Disneyland or some catered cruise off Puget Sound.

But hey, I guess my priorities are all messed up. Someone else ought to pay for my migraine so I can go to Disneyland and do as I d*mn well please. ‘Cuz I deserve it, ‘natch.

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-12-19 15:58:29

Lip —”huh? “Conservatives are too quick to give up rights to someone else - - -.” An explanation of what you mean would be appreciated because if I’m not mistaken, the Dems are on their way to passing a bill that will eventually lead to the domination of the whole healthcare system. Once you give the government the right to decide who gets what medical care, you’re giving up a whole bunch of freedom.

So you equate the patriot act with a public option for insurance. You equate spying on Americans with no judicial oversite with insurance for everyone. I just don’t understand what rights you think your giving up with a public option. Let’s take the worst caase scenario and not that the gov starts rationing health care (”note that the insurance companies already do this”) If you have money you could certainly buy a pri vate plan or pay for the medical care not covered by the gov option. You’ve really lost no rights at all. If you look at Europe which has an extensively socialized medical system. People with omeny can still get medical care outside of that system and buy private insurance. My wife just got back from Argentina and it was the same there.

I actually think that it would be the best if this came to pass. The public option would ration care based on cost benefit analysis (rather than the hapazard way care it is rationed now). Then people could buy private insurnace if they want the bells and whistles. It would be like the medicare supplement plans, only medicare / public plan would cover even less in terms of unproven or marginally effective treatments and the private insurance would be for those who want everything that could possibly help.

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Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-12-19 18:52:58

And the cost benefit analysis will be fundamentally corrupted by the consideration of which medical conditions are in political favor to treat, and which are not.

I’ll take my chances with haphazard.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-12-20 18:41:41

Well said, measton!

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-12-19 16:33:04

“The military’s influence stops at my front door.”

Well no it does not. You are in the military 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. You are a GI. Government Issued.

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Comment by exeter
2009-12-19 20:37:14

Exactly SFBAG. I was paid cents an hour 24 hours per day when I did my patriotic duty.

I gotta laugh at some of these guys who think their active duty status somehow gives them a license to foist their half-thought, lamebrained nationalism BS on the rest of us. I’d wager a majority of the guys on this blog have seen active duty at one time or another and can’t be fooled by their thinly veiled nationalism.

FTA,

Exeter

 
Comment by Stpn2me
2009-12-19 22:31:14

I was paid cents an hour 24 hours per day when I did my patriotic duty.

You people are mostly talking about basic training or anytime a military member is in a school. Yes, the training day is regimented. But when you are at home, you are at home. There is no drill SGT coming into a private home looking around. You know that.

And I cant help it they only paid you cents on the dollar back in the civil war….

 
Comment by exeter
2009-12-20 12:55:56

But never address the central issue; always lean on a crutch when your ideology cannot be defended.

Well done.

 
 
 
Comment by Lane from s.c.
2009-12-19 07:21:22

I think the above example is not the norm. Our HOA is strick but fair…and I knew the rules going in so I have no complaints. There is a neighborhood not too far away with a 35ft. boat on stands…I guess doing a rehab. I would not want to see that. We have a RV rule here I think 48 hours. I think thats fair. People do some stupid things…I love our HOA.

Lane

Comment by oxide
2009-12-19 10:56:41

I wonder if there’s a way to rate HOA on a scale. Like “0″ being “no covenants,” and 10 being “conformist political deathtrap.”* 14 rose bushes on 4 acres? An acre is almost a football field. How could you even see those rosebushes without a telescope, or trespassing? Definitely a 10 HOA.

—–
*I saw that in a 2006 newspaper ad for a condo building. Gated communities were conformist political deathtraps, therefore I should buy their overpriced $300K condo for $1369 a month. As if a condo wasn’t a death trap too… [they got to 1369 by doing financial gymnastics in the fine print. Subtract the interest deduction, 5 year I/O etc.]

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Comment by jane
2009-12-20 00:25:42

Lane, you sound like somebody who is old and on one of those thingies called ‘pensions’ that no longer exists. Somebody who is well taken care of and smug about it, believing his fortune entirely attributable to his own superiority. Who believes the younger generations are strapped because they failed to make the mark. Somebody who has nobody who would turn to him for help, in the event they ran on hard times and were evicted. Somebody whose death will not be noticed, much less mourned.

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Comment by exeter
2009-12-19 07:26:07

Move to the country….. heh…

I only wish I could see the look on your face when the natives hear your yammering.

Comment by tresho
2009-12-19 08:51:27

I only wish I could see the look on your face when the natives hear your yammering. Just consider yourself lucky you can’t see our faces when we read some of your posts.

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Comment by exeter
2009-12-19 11:46:40

The lucky one is unquestionably you. ;)

 
 
 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-12-19 07:51:53

I’m with you. But it’s not the money per se. Heck, I don’t mind paying local property taxes to the city to pay for roads parks et al. But if some busybody is going to tell you what color you can paint your front door, you might as well be renting IMHO. So when I was house shopping ^10 years ago, the two unalterables that I gave my RE agent were “four wall all my own” and “no HOAs.” I wanted a garage, but in the end I setteled for a driveway. ‘Cause unlike alot of FBs I made sure that I could AFFORD my house.

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-12-19 07:21:32

People will earn soon enough HOA’s were started by left wing liberal/commie Berkley types to keep riff raff out of their perfect commune.

You cant win in court unless you can prove discrimination, as long as the idiot rules are followed and apply to everyone equally.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 07:40:34

This Wikipedia entry makes it sound like HOAs were a driving force behind urban sprawl and white flight from inner cities to the suburbs — hardly the sort of housing market dynamics your prototypical left wing/commie Berkeley type would espouse:

History

The explosion in the number of common-interest developments (CIDs) can be traced back to a publication by the Urban Land Institute in 1964, also known as TB 50.[3] This technical bulletin was funded by The National Association of Home Builders and by certain federal agencies: the FHA, United States Public Health Service, Office of Civil Defense, the Veterans Administration and the Urban Renewal Administration.[4]

The Federal Housing Administration in 1963 authorized federal home mortgage insurance exclusively for condominiums or for homes in subdivisions where there was a qualifying homeowner association. The rationale was that developers wanted to get around density laws. The effect, however, was to divert investment from multifamily housing and home construction or renovation in the inner cities, speeding a middle-class exodus to the suburbs and into common-interest housing. The federal highways program further facilitated the process.

Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-12-19 08:06:39

All of which goes to reinforce my claim that the biggest single driver of America’s excessively high per-capita energy lifestyles has always been… activist federal government policies of various sorts.

You’ve just added another item to my every growing list.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 09:00:48

Yep! With urban sprawl came long commutes, highlighted by bumper-to-bumper traffic jams. And now we have the global warming alarmists barking away over the need to reduce carbon emissions. It is a bit late in the day to raise this issue, as our entire economy is designed around wasteful high POV demand and fossil-fuel-intensive commuting.

Heckuva job, DC!!!

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-12-19 17:24:59

The federal highway program was created as a civil defense system. Yes, there was a lot of pork in it, but the biggest lesson learned from WWII was that mobility was paramount and with the Cold War in full swing, mobility in the event of a nuclear war was even more important.

Another result was more commercial transportation options.

Flight from the inner city was also facilitated by the massive corruption in many cities which resulted in neglect of maintenance of city infrastructure. That, and frankly, most people really don’t like sharing a wall with a neighbor.

 
 
Comment by MightyMike
2009-12-19 13:19:58

There you go citing Wikipedia. Don’t you know that the truth has well-known liberal nias?

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Comment by MightyMike
2009-12-19 13:25:20

oops…meant to say bias

 
 
 
Comment by Stpn2me
2009-12-19 08:34:15

People will earn soon enough HOA’s were started by left wing liberal/commie Berkley types to keep riff raff out of their perfect commune

+100

Comment by SaladSD
2009-12-19 11:48:46

People will learn soon enough HOA’s were started by right wing fascist NRA types to keep the riff raff out of their perfect community.

See, wasn’t that easy? Fill in the blank, presto-chango.

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Comment by eudemon
2009-12-19 12:07:14

Actually, if one were to get all political about it, there’d be an easy way to determine the answer: overlay voting records with HOA footprints/geography.

No presto-chango required.

 
Comment by neuromance
2009-12-19 19:35:35

See, wasn’t that easy? Fill in the blank, presto-chango.

Yes, but one is accurate and one is inaccurate :)

 
Comment by SaladSD
2009-12-19 19:43:51

Almost all newer development in my district of San Diego county is governed by HOAs, and this district is heavily Republican (Duke Cunningham: rest in prison) so, there you go!

 
 
 
 
Comment by peter a
2009-12-19 07:41:05

The guy should have section8ed his house. That would get even. I would do that.

 
Comment by ahansen
2009-12-19 12:39:49

C’mon wmbz. It wasn’t just the roses.

The guy regraded the site, jeopardizing the stability of the (very expensive) neighboring homes above him.

While I’m not a huge fan of HOA’s, you only have to live next door to one yahoo who moves in a trailer, his sixteen armed relatives, and a barking mongrel dog collection to understand their potential charm.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-12-19 13:09:20

Geez, I wonder if they have “rule” on their HOA books about committing MASS SUICIDE? ;-)

Rancho Santa Fe — Ten years ago 39 Heaven’s Gate religious cult members killed themselves inside a Rancho Santa Fe mansion, believing their souls would board a spaceship that was supposedly trailing the Hale-Bopp comet. It remains the country’s worst mass suicide.

In July 1997, Rancho Santa Fe residents changed the name of the street to Paseo Victoria and the home’s address to 18239 to try to keep curious people away.

That same year, in mid June, Rancho Santa Fe Groves, Inc. bought the 9,000-square-foot Mediterranean-style home, that included a pool, tennis court, sauna, elevator, putting green and a limousine garage, for a mere $668,000, less than half the $1.6 million asking price before the suicides.

It was unclear if the home has been sold again since 1999

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-12-21 10:36:48

This article says a lot about what this nation has become. HOA are often breeding pools for petty tyrants.

I was particularly impressed by the cruelty shown towards the guy who lost his whole family when a plane destroyed his house and he didn’t rebuild using the “allowed” shingle color… or the evil treatment of the couple trying to help their homeless granddaughter.

Too many people are more concerned with their bling and their property values vs. the actual value of other human beings. Nice…

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 07:22:05

Triton: Merrill Stevens lays off workforce.
South Florida Business Journal

The Triton, a newspaper for South Florida’s nautical community, is reporting in an e-mail that the Merrill Stevens shipyard on the Miami River has laid off the remainder of its workforce as it tries to restructure financially.

“Yard owners were not prepared to talk on the record earlier today, but several sources at the yard confirmed the closure,” said the events e-mail from Triton Publisher David Reed.

The move would be a sharp reversal of the yard’s previous plans and another blow to South Florida’s marine industry, which suffered from residential projects taking over sites during the housing boom.

The South Florida Business Journal in October 2008 reported that the $98 million dredging of the Miami River would allow Merrill Stevens accommodate much bigger and heavier boats. As a result, the shipyard was planning a $40 million expansion to increase its workforce from 150 to 500 to work on megayachts.

Merrill Stevens’ Web site describes it as Florida’s oldest continuously operating yacht services company, since 1885.

The Business Journal called the company seeking comment Friday evening, but the extension for the officer on duty was not working.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-12-19 17:28:11

Did they really think the market for megayachts was unlimited? :lol:

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 07:25:40

Bollinger layoffs a possibility.
December 18, 2009

HOUMA — Bollinger Shipyards could begin layoffs in January at one of its Amelia yards, CEO Donald “Boysie” Bollinger said Friday.

Bollinger said the approximately 190 employees at the St. Mary Bollinger Marine Fabricators had been notified under the WARN Act, federal legislation that alerts workers of impending reductions.

He wouldn’t say how many workers could be affected. That would depend on how much work the company was able to contract, he said.

“We’ve warned everybody that was possible,” Bollinger said in a phone interview Friday evening. “We’re not trying to be vague, we’re just trying to be factual.”

As much as possible, affected workers would be absorbed by the company’s other yards, he said.

As of a Courier and Daily Comet tally in October, the Lockport-based company was Lafourche Parish’s fourth-largest employer, with a total of 2,100 workers at 13 yards in Louisiana and Texas.

The oil-and-gas service industry has been hit hard by a global economic downturn that has cut global demand for energy. As large oil companies have scaled back their drilling and production operations, that means fewer orders for new vessels and construction projects that keep workers busy in the Houma-Thibodaux area.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 07:31:20

S.D. County jobless rate declines
Thousands stop looking for work

By Dean Calbreath, UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

Saturday, December 19, 2009 at 12:13 a.m.

The unemployment rate in California and San Diego County dropped last month, signaling that the two-year recession in the state, while not quite over, may be coming to an end.

In California, the jobless rate edged down from a revised 12.5 percent in October to 12.3 percent in November, according to data released yesterday by the California Employment Development Department. Other than a 0.1 percentage point decline in June, it was the first time the unemployment rate has declined since late 2006.

Locally, the rate fell from a revised 10.7 percent in October – the highest point since the Great Depression – to 10.3 percent in November, its lowest point since June. The national unemployment rate also declined last month, falling from 10.2 percent in October to 10 percent in November.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said the drop is “promising news,” but added that with nearly 2.3 million Californians still unemployed, job growth remains his top priority.

Yesterday’s jobs report offered hints of the uneven nature of the recovery. Even as the jobless rate improved, the number of salaried workers statewide fell by 10,000. The reason the jobless rate improved was that nearly 20,000 people left the job market and are no longer counted on the unemployment rolls.

“Since the adult population has not declined, this represents a decline of adult workers looking for work,” said Michael Bernick, an employment analyst affiliated with the Milken Institute in Santa Monica. “It’s mainly a combination of adult workers deciding to go back to postsecondary education or stay longer in postsecondary education, and adult workers who have stopped looking at least for a time — deciding to retire, or parent full time or wait until the labor market picks up.”

During the last seven months, 308,700 people in California have dropped out of the labor force for similar reasons. As they filter back into the work force, the rate of improvement in the jobless rate could slow down.

Since California’s job market peaked in July 2007, businesses have cut more than 1 million jobs and the unemployment rate has more than doubled from 5.3 percent. Even if the job market has hit bottom, it will probably take at least until the end of next year for the unemployment rate to fall below 10 percent and until 2014 to return to its pre-recession levels, according to projections by IHS Global Insight, a Massachusetts-based economic analysis firm.

Because the state does not seasonally adjust employment figures on a county-by-county level, it’s hard to judge how well the economy performed last month. The county added 4,500 jobs from October, but 3,700 of those were retail positions that were filled as the holiday shopping season got under way.

Comparing year-to-year figures provides a better measure of overall growth. From November 2008 to November 2009, the county lost 43,300 jobs — a significant improvement from the 47,800 annualized job loss in October.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-12-19 17:30:52

Neither figures are “significant.”

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-12-21 10:57:21

If we could just get everyone unemployed AND off of unemployment benefits and no longer working for work, we can have 100% employment?!

 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-12-19 07:32:53

Despite all the carnage reported in the media, people are doing stupid things again here in Jax, FL.

Someone offered a house for 268K and it sold for 310K. A specuvestor paid 158K for a house, installed new floors, a roof, and kitchen cabinets, and listed it for 240K. Another specuvestor bought a home and listed it for rent way above market. Its collecting dust.

Over and above all that, buyers are jumping over each other to place bids on overpriced foreclosures where the seller offers to pay closing costs. FMac is having a lot of success attracting bids using that pricing scheme.

Never underestimate stupid.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-12-19 17:32:06

Why? ‘Cause you can’t fix stupid. :lol:

Comment by Matt_in_TX
2009-12-19 21:37:05

Well, paint over it then stupid! :)

 
 
Comment by CA renter
2009-12-20 19:12:53

MMaven,

Same thing here in California. We are seeing reports of this going on all over the country…and the world???

Whenever a trend is so widespread, it’s worth noting and trying to determine what’s behind all the activity.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 07:42:59

The Final Arbiter ~ American Purgatory
By G. Simmons and Brett Buchanan

Are financial markets a direct reflection of the overall health of a nation? I wish they were not, but I fear they are.

I wonder at times if our nation has entered a state of purgatory – all of us mulling around in the waiting room to Hell, anxiously counting the minutes until the grim reaper saunters through the door sickle in hand his mission to send us off to eternal damnation. Unfortunately, there is little time to close this door so that we may stave off this potential fate that looms so near. What we need to alter this course is a procession of men who possess moral fortitude and common sense, men of rationality and reason. Men of action who will set in motion the dismantling of institutions that bleed this nation dry.

http://realityarbiter.com/2009/12/american-purgatory/#more-478

Comment by In Colorado
2009-12-19 08:30:52

I wonder at times if our nation has entered a state of purgatory – all of us mulling around in the waiting room to Hell

Actually, Purgatory is the waiting room for Heaven, not Hell.

From wikipedia:

“Purgatory is the condition or process of purification in which the souls of those who die in a state of grace are made ready for Heaven.”

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-19 10:18:21

Thanks wmbz for posting “American Purgatory .”

Some quotes from the article .

“Over the past few decades a gullible U.S. population cheered the halls of congress and the Oval office alike as the incestuous bed fellows of money and politics ushered in financial Coupd ‘etat -co-opting our public trusts with the greed and excess of Wall Street .”

“This Nation has gone the way of an absolute meltdown of morality and
ethics .We’ve reverted to a sort of Wild West where anything goes .”

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 07:47:30

Major shoe-shine boy moment duly noted:

* PAGE ONE
* DECEMBER 19, 2009

Gold Is the New Tupperware, and You’re Invited to the Party
It’s Much More Fun Than a Pawnshop; the Cash Is Only So-So but Comes in Handy

By KELLY EVANS

ROWAYTON, Conn. — The 1950s were big for Tupperware parties. The 1970s were hot for Mary Kay cosmetics. As this decade hobbles to a close, a new kind of social gathering is invading America’s living rooms: the gold party.

Shannan DeCesare, 40 years old, brought four gold chains, two unloved bracelets, some earrings that had lost their mates and a couple of other old pieces to her neighbor’s house here last week. Minutes later, she was showing off a check for $610. “Merry Christmas to me!” she exclaimed amid applause from the small group of women clustered around host Christine Smith’s dining-room table. “Don’t tell my husband,” she joked, as she pondered how she might spend the loot.

Gold is above $1,110 an ounce

Worries about inflation have pushed gold prices above $1,110 an ounce, up 50% from a year ago. And many people stung by the weak economy are looking for discreet ways to raise extra cash without sneaking down to the pawnshop.

As a result, gold parties are booming, creating opportunities for aspiring entrepreneurs—and a new worry for regulators. Typically, small companies promote the parties through word of mouth or by advertising in communities likely to produce plenty of sellers. The companies provide a specialist to value sellers’ items, and pay the host a cut of about 10% of proceeds.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 07:59:56

True confession: I used to own some physical gold. I sold it in the early 2000s, when the recession at that time was squeezing my own household’s cash flow. This was the worst possible time to sell, and in retrospect, it was a poor decision for us to sell the gold. We should have instead opted for the housing market ATM machine as a source of cash.
As they say, hindsight is 20-20.

I believe many of the individuals who constitute the supply side of the market at these “Goldware” parties find themselves in similar situations to that which we were in at the beginning of this decade: Long on financial obligations, and short on income. This is a great time for strong hands to catch themselves falling knives, as gold prices appear to be far more inflated now than they were circa 2002.

Comment by technovelist
2009-12-19 14:00:29

Thank you for supplying your track record in gold.

My portfolio, on the other hand, is seriously long gold at about a $400 average price. I’ve been buying fairly heavily since 1998, starting at about $340.

This has resulted in a significant improvement in my overall financial health. When I started this program, I had a couple of years income saved. Now I’m at the point where I could retire on a fairly good annuity income at age 62, or a small but still adequate one if SS is out of business then.

Now perhaps people know who to listen to.

Comment by measton
2009-12-19 16:09:22

Pride goethe before the fall.

There were many people at the peak of the stock market as condescending as you. I remember them telling me I was crazy when I moved 90% of my money to cash and treasuries. They told me I was crazy when I sold my house and started renting.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 16:41:40

In defense of technovelist, he did what long-term investors should do, which is to buy a long-lived asset (gold) when the market was down. I personally doubt the market is going to keep rising parabolically from here — a 50 percent runup in one year is almost certain evidence of a bubble about to end in a crash, whether or not Ben Bernanke can see it. But anyone who bought when gold was at $340 an ounce is still going to come out ahead over the long run, as gold is unlikely to ever see that level again, given the amount of dollar printing that has occurred over the past decade against the backdrop of tepid to terrible economic performance.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 16:44:05

“They told me I was crazy when I sold my house and started renting.”

Measton –

I feel obliged to express my sense of awe whenever I read about someone who took this step, despite all the research Suzanne did into the benefits of home ownership. I personally doubt we would have sold except that I had the good luck to be in the process of relocating nearly coincidental with the bubble peak (year-end 2004).

 
Comment by cashedin05
2009-12-19 16:49:03

+1

 
 
Comment by technovelist
2009-12-19 17:14:35

In defense of technovelist, he did what long-term investors should do, which is to buy a long-lived asset (gold) when the market was down. I personally doubt the market is going to keep rising parabolically from here — a 50 percent runup in one year is almost certain evidence of a bubble about to end in a crash, whether or not Ben Bernanke can see it. But anyone who bought when gold was at $340 an ounce is still going to come out ahead over the long run, as gold is unlikely to ever see that level again, given the amount of dollar printing that has occurred over the past decade against the backdrop of tepid to terrible economic performance.

Thank you. And I agree that a parabolic market is not a healthy market; we are going to have some major fluctuations on the “way to the moon” in gold prices. In fact, I mentioned to my wife a couple of weeks ago that I was waiting for a good 10-15% takedown, as we hadn’t had one of those for quite awhile. They are needed to shake out the weak hands.

Actually, I’d be happy to take some profits in gold, but the question is what should I put those profits into, the USD? That seems like masochism considering that my longterm forecast for the USD is the inverse of my gold forecast, namely that it is going to Zuul.

If anyone has any suggestions as to safe places for me to put some of my profits, I’m all ears!

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Comment by CA renter
2009-12-20 19:19:07

Real estate!!! ;)

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 17:28:20

“Now perhaps people know who to listen to.”

I am missing your point here. But if you know what is good for you, you will take some of your gold gains off the table soon. You will be hard pressed to find a historical instance where an asset which has gone up by 50 percent in one year does not soon thereafter experience a major crash.

If you can provide evidence to the contrary, I am highly interested. If you cannot find contrary evidence, I strongly suggest you diversify out of gold if you have not already done so.

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Comment by technovelist
2009-12-19 17:32:31

Fine, but what should I put my gains into? I can’t find anything safe to put them into.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-12-19 17:40:36

“You will be hard pressed to find a historical instance where an asset which has gone up by 50 percent in one year does not soon thereafter experience a major crash.”

Ain’t that the truth. I often tell that if you’ve gotten 50% or more from some investment, time to take the money and run.

I watched gold do the monkey dance back in the early 80s. It wasn’t pretty when it finally dropped a long way from its high and stayed there.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-12-19 17:42:28

Safe? What has ever been truly “safe?”

CDs? Savings bonds? Actually there is plenty of safe out there. As long as you can put up with very low returns.

 
Comment by technovelist
2009-12-19 17:52:02

You will be hard pressed to find a historical instance where an asset which has gone up by 50 percent in one year does not soon thereafter experience a major crash.

If you can provide evidence to the contrary, I am highly interested. If you cannot find contrary evidence, I strongly suggest you diversify out of gold if you have not already done so.

Let’s see, here’s an example, with the name of the investment kept secret for the moment. The prices shown are yearly averages, with the percentages being the increase in the yearly average price from the previous yearly average price:

1971: 40.80
1972: 58.16 (42%)
1973: 97.32 (67%)
1974: 159.26 (63%)
1975: 161.02 (1%)
1976: 124.84 (-23%) Look at that crash; I guess I should have sold in 1975! But let’s just go ahead and see what happens next
1977: 147.71 (18%) Still below 1975, so I guess that’s it?
1978: 193.22 (31%) Oops, that 1975 sale isn’t looking so good, as we’re up 20% from then. I’m sure this is a fluke, though.
1979: 306.68 (58%) Hmm.
1980: 612.56 (100%) Here is where you actually SHOULD have sold.
1981: 460.03 (-25%) But notice this is still up 50% from two years earlier.

To recap: There are four years with more than a 50% increase in average yearly price, which I believe is a stricter criterion than the interval from the lowest price to the highest price in 12 months. The only place where you should have sold (assuming you aren’t a market timer, which I’m not) is after the 100% gain, and failing to do that for another year after the top would still leave you with a gain of over 1000% from the start.

Want to guess what this asset was?

 
Comment by technovelist
2009-12-19 17:53:24

By the way, no asset that relies on the value of the USD is safe, due to the purchasing power risk.

 
Comment by technovelist
2009-12-19 18:11:34

Oh, and by the way, the average gold price this year so far (which I doubt will change much since there are only a couple of weeks left in the year) is $969.88, whereas the average price last year was $871.96, so we’re only up about 11% in average price this year, which is similar to the gain in most of the last 10 years. Doesn’t sound too parabolic to me.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-12-19 18:13:57

Yes technologist, there are investments out there that are the exception to the rule.

But who knows this ahead of time? :wink:

 
Comment by technovelist
2009-12-19 18:37:07

Of course one cannot be certain in advance which investments will do that. But neither should one claim that it is impossible for it to happen.

 
Comment by technovelist
2009-12-19 21:21:19

Of course, according to the rule of “sell after a 50% increase in a year”, on should have sold in 1973 at an average price of $97.32. That wouldn’t have worked out too well as it happened.

But I’m sure this is just a fluke, and of course my track record for the past 10 years is just another fluke.

 
 
 
 
Comment by combotechie
2009-12-19 08:09:01

First it says: “Worries about inflation have pushed gold prices above $1,010 and ounce, up 50% from a year ago.”

Then it says: “And many people stung by the weak economy are looking for descrete ways to raise extra cash without sneaking down to the pawnshop.”

There’s a contradiction here. Inflation means too much money chasing too few goods. But, as shown by the second sentence, people are stung by the weak economy and need to raise extra cash.

This need for extra cash is not going to be a driver of inflation.

Comment by In Colorado
2009-12-19 08:32:27

You can have inflation while J6P is broke. I saw firsthand in Mexico in the 70’s.

Comment by measton
2009-12-19 16:11:45

You can have inflation while J6P is broke. I saw firsthand in Mdexico in the 70’s,

True, but it does make it difficult to increase GDP using inflation. It will also hurt housing.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 16:45:20

In defense of the U.S.A., we are not Mexico, and I am not sure your example is relevant.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2009-12-19 08:42:59

Major profit opportunity here pay 50% of a pawn shop price…

That 40 yo bimbo can’t do the math.
——–
looking for descrete ways to raise extra cash without sneaking down to the pawnshop

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 08:57:17

Spot on, Combo. The fact that it is desperate straights which drives the supply side of the Goldware™ party phenomenon strongly undermines the hyperinflation fear mongers’ case. Not only that, but the Fed has repeatedly signaled they will take away the punch bowl once the economic recovery is underway; why would anyone doubt their intentions to follow this plan?

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-12-21 11:03:44

I assume that’s a joke: everything the Fed has said so far has either been an intentional lie (to get more loot into the hands of cronies while blowing more Bubbles) or an expression of utter ignorance (they still can’t see the Housing Bubble nor any other Bubble because to them, Bubbles are the way the economy should be at all times.)

If the Fed says anything regarding their future actions, I’m inclined to think the opposite is more likely, especially if they are claiming that they will take away the punchbowl.

I expect ZIRP for a long time, with maybe a token raise here and there, followed by a return to ZIRP since non-ZIRP hurts the “recovery.”

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-12-19 17:47:19

We have stagflation as some of you predicted.

We had it back in the 70s as well.

J6P CAN be broke and still have inflation. Inflation really isn’t coupled to wages. It’s coupled to speculators and investors. Wages have usually always lagged behind inflation.

Saying that wages influence inflation is just propaganda for screwing J6P.

Comment by CA renter
2009-12-20 19:23:02

Exactly, eco.

Stagflation really is the worst of all worlds, IMHO.

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-12-19 21:08:12

I think of inflation in the monetary sense, printing all the paper. They are printing numbers too. What is the Fed going to do, burn the excess paper bills and knock down some of those digits that they made up? Those extra digits go to the central banks and then the large banks I thought.

We went through this before. We are having stagflation now. Not all prices go up at once with stagflation. There is a delay in years from what the Fed does to what mainstreet does.

In the 70s, wages were stagnant. Home loan rates were in double digits. Gas prices went way up, gold went way up. In the 00’s, wages are stagnant, home loan rates were 0, house prices went way up, gas prices doubled from the year 2002 or 2003 to now and peaked at quadrupled and gold went way up. The show is not over. The value of the dollar dropped 95% since the year 1913. And cash is king?

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-12-19 08:36:05

Of course, as someone already pointed out the other day, there is a big difference. At these “parties” they are buying, not selling.

If they were selling gold, with the claim that “Gold only goes up!” then it would certainly mean that its time to get out of gold.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it were the Chinese who were behind the “Cash4Gold” schemes, dumping depreciating dollars for the precious.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 16:49:13

‘At these “parties” they are buying, not selling.’

Every sales transaction I have ever witnessed or participated in had both a buyer and a seller. That is why the standard Marshallian demand model of economics always includes a demand curve (buyers) and a supply curve (sellers).

Comment by neuromance
2009-12-19 19:41:46

‘At these “parties” they are buying, not selling.’

Every sales transaction I have ever witnessed or participated in had both a buyer and a seller.

Makes for an interesting view of the stock market. Imagine buyers as one circle and sellers as another. On a stock runup, the buyer circle is big and the seller circle is smaller. Suddenly, at the top, the seller circle gets real big and the buyer circle gets small, and prices go down (circle size == number of members).

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 23:24:56

I expect extreme shrinkage in the circle of Goldware™ party hosts in the near-term future. Something this crazy is a fad which clearly cannot last for long…

 
 
Comment by CA renter
2009-12-20 19:25:52

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 16:49:13
‘At these “parties” they are buying, not selling.’

Every sales transaction I have ever witnessed or participated in had both a buyer and a seller. That is why the standard Marshallian demand model of economics always includes a demand curve (buyers) and a supply curve (sellers).
————————-

The important question is **who** is doing the buying and **who** is doing the selling.

With these gold parties (BTW, I saw an ad in the Enquirer or some such magazine the other day), the sellers appear to be of the J6 variety, and the buyers are ?????

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-12-19 13:19:32

It’s bewildering to me that people are buying gold jewelry, which has a high overhead for one, and a subjective artistic value for the design added to the spot price.

Granted, gold necklaces look great on some women (particularly the dark-skinned women). But as an investment, I’d stay away if I was them.

Smart thing to do is to maintain 10% of your assets in precious metals modern bullion coins. Put a small percentage of it in rare precious metal coins. Buy from a reputable coin dealer. Not from a tupperware party!

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 16:53:25

“Not from a tupperware party!”

Similarly, I suggest not following hot stock tips offered by shoeshine boys, not buying condos because a human directional is spinning around a sign that says, “Condos Selling Now,” and not pursuing real estate investing opportunities advertised on hand-lettered signs near off-ramps to freeways. In each of these cases, you are staring directly at strong evidence of a ginormous bubble on the verge of collapse.

 
 
Comment by technovelist
2009-12-19 13:54:53

The “shoeshine boy” being the seller, apparently, so does that mean we have a “gold selling bubble”? What would be the correct investment approach if that were the case?

By analogy, one should buy gold. But I’m sure that’s not what you meant to imply, right?

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 17:00:29

‘The “shoeshine boy” being the seller, apparently, so does that mean we have a “gold selling bubble”?’

No. The “shoeshine boy moment” refers to the fact that gold is now trading informally in a Tupperware party format. Similar recent examples of bubbles near popping are the following:

1) Time Magazine Home-Sweet-Home cover story;

2) Wall Street Journal Flip-That-Yacht story;

3) Beanie babies selling like hot cakes on e-Bay;

4) Dot com startups without a viable business model and negative profits;

5) New York cab drivers and hair dressers moonlighting as real estate investors;

6) Central Valley strawberry pickers making $30K/year buying homes priced north of $700K;

7) Real estate investors with negative net cash flow.

The Fed denies culpability in all of these cases, but I firmly believe their easy money policies were a key factor in all of them.

Comment by technovelist
2009-12-19 17:29:38

But in all those cases (except arguably Beanie Babies), J6P was BUYING the “asset” in question from a presumably more knowledgeable seller, whereas in this case J6P is SELLING to a presumably knowledgeable buyer. So if the idea is to to do the opposite of J6P, one should be BUYING gold, not SELLING it.

Is that clear now?

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Comment by oxide
2009-12-19 19:09:48

In other words, J6P is selling high, just like he’s supposed to.

That’s why I’m wondering about all this gold-selling. Do the dealers (buyers) think that gold always goes up?

 
Comment by In Montana
2009-12-19 20:51:46

and are they getting the same melt value they’d get at their local coin & gold exchange?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 23:22:28

“Is that clear now?”

Clear as mud. My guess is the folks holding the Goldware™ parties (and snapping up the gold) are not exactly your A-list investment banker types. More like yesterday’s too-clever-by-half real estate investing moguls.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-12-20 19:29:03

What we need to determine is whether or not the buyers of gold are “smart” buyers or late-to-the-party “investment” types.

I’ve never seen any kind of disclosure regarding the buyers of all this gold. I agree with techie on this. Perhaps the run-up in gold is not over???

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Steve W
2009-12-19 07:53:05

Last week, I made a comment about gold parties today being like tupperware parties in the 70s.

I see this in the WSJ this am: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126118451895697969.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

guess they are reading ben’s blog. And where’s my cut?

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 08:28:30

Your cut is that you can link online to the article you cited, and also that you can throw out ideas here which might be picked up by the MSM without the hassle of having to deal with editors, deadlines, advertisers and all the other myriad headaches that journalists face in their day jobs. There is a nice symbiosis between the HBB and any MSM writers who might tap into our posts which should not be taken for granted.

Comment by CA renter
2009-12-20 19:32:06

Very true, PB.

 
 
Comment by tresho
2009-12-19 08:55:57

guess they are reading ben’s blog. And where’s my cut?
Don’t expect any remuneration, but at least you can tell your friends you were quoted in the Wall Street Journal.

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-12-19 09:58:51

I have friends that write for the WSJ and they are aware of the HBB>

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-12-19 12:12:31

‘…One golden rule: “What happens at a gold party stays at a gold party,” jokes Margaret Petrucelli, 43, who founded her firm, It’s a Gold Mine Party LLC, a year ago after she was… laid off from the mortgage division of investment bank Goldman Sachs Group Inc.”

Something tells me she’ll be missing working at Goldenmansucks right about this time of the year… :-)

BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! (fpss™)

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 07:54:50

Subprime Sam’s efforts to debauch private mortgage lenders’ underwriting standards are working. The race to the bottom that helped inflate the largest housing bubble in human history is back on again!

* The Wall Street Journal
* DECEMBER 19, 2009

Down-Payment Standards Eased
By RUTH SIMON

Some mortgage insurers and lenders are beginning to relax their down-payment requirements, in a sign of increased confidence in the housing market.

The changes, which are being done on a market-by-market basis, mean buyers in some parts of the country can now borrow 95% instead of 90% of a property’s value. Until recently, mortgage companies had tighter standards for these markets because of falling home prices.

…the latest moves, while modest, are an indication that some mortgage companies believe the worst home-price declines are over — at least in certain parts of the country — and that prices are likely to stabilize or fall slightly over the coming year.

A rosier view of the housing market isn’t the only factor driving the changes. Mortgage insurers also are seeking to regain market share from the Federal Housing Administration.

New insurance written by private mortgage insurers dropped by nearly 60% in the first nine months of 2009, compared with the same period a year ago, according to Inside Mortgage Finance. Borrowers without sufficient funds for a 20% down payment have been flocking to the FHA, which lends to people with as little as a 3.5% down payment.

“To have any presence in the mortgage market, the mortgage insurers have to be more flexible,” said Guy Cecala, editor of Inside Mortgage Finance, a trade publication. The mortgage insurers had gotten so strict, he noted, that their standards were tougher than those of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-12-19 18:51:10

“The race to the bottom that helped inflate the largest housing bubble in human history is back on again!”

I’m seeing it here. Developers are once again breaking ground around the area. Resales of houses that I track in our community are up significantly.
The realtors we know here are smiling again.

Buy now or be priced out forever?

 
 
Comment by peter a
2009-12-19 08:06:35

Looks like health care will pass. Question is the government is to require everyone purchase insurance. Will not that in its self make this bill be tide up in court for many years on constitutional grounds?

Comment by Stpn2me
2009-12-19 08:48:14

Question is the government is to require everyone purchase insurance.

They will have to. The liberals have no where else to look for money. The govt shouldnt be requiring me to do anything other than vote, pay taxes and jury duty.

Anything past that is an eroding of individual rights.

Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-12-19 09:44:19

“The govt shouldnt be requiring me to do anything other than vote, pay taxes and jury duty. ”

Not to split hairs, however, your rights in the mililtary are not quite the same.

Comment by Stpn2me
2009-12-19 10:02:29

But I volunteered for the military. Requiring me to purchase insurance isnt the federal govts business…

I would wager though, it might be the state’s business.

What do you guys think of that? That way, if I dont like one states policies, I can move to one that I do favor. I really dont believe the federal govt can make me do anything. But the state is who should be doing these things..After all, we are the United States. We are not meant to be one govt doing it all for everyone. The states are supposed to be separate…

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Comment by Bub Diddley
2009-12-19 11:36:39

Give me a break with the states rights b.s. State borders in the US are largely a remnant of political decisions made in the 18th century that didn’t even make sense then. Borders were selected along rivers or were simply arbitrary. Counties were created and subdivided to reflect an evenly spread rural population that no longer exists. County seats were spread out so somebody could take a horse and buggy and get to the county seat and back by nightfall - now people routinely drive across three counties to get to the grocery store. Similarly, state capitals were placed geographically in the middle of states so as to be equidistant from all counties, their location wasn’t related to any economic reality. So you end up with little towns far from any business or economic action controlling all the politics of the state. Jefferson City instead of St. Louis, Springfield instead of Chicago, etc. We are still suffering from this arrangement today, and in a globalized world it isn’t helping us any. You have counties fighting one another over who gets whatever new store or factory, when people from three counties over will probably work/shop there. States in the US need to act regionally, across state borders, if they are going to have any chance to compete globally.

It kills me to see conservatives jump all over “states rights” as a cause when the construction of our state government is in fact one of the major barriers we have to getting anything done in this country. Now you want to take our patchwork system of employer-based health insurance and further complicate it by letting every state individually decide how to handle it? Jesus, and you think our heath care system is a mess NOW…

We have a federal government for a reason. There are some policy decisions that make more sense to be handled nationally. We don’t let every state individually handle their own international relations. Why not have each state have its own separate army, navy, and air force, then? Then only coastal states would pay for aircraft carriers, states in the center of the nation could opt to not waste money on having a military because they have no fear of invasion, etc…

Oh yeah, but the military is DIFFERENT…having a national health care policy is oppressive, but having a huge national military industrial complex is the essence of freedom!

 
Comment by ahansen
2009-12-19 12:58:23

Now THAT was a rant. Well done, Bubster.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-12-19 15:36:59

18th century? For silly Johnny-come-lately children of the Western expansion into the Ohio valley maybe. Some of us got our charters in the 17th century, thank-you-very much.

 
Comment by cashedin05
2009-12-19 17:10:43

Bub,

That whole rant is your opinion. I disagree with every word. Our system as originally set up has proven to be the best system the world has ever seen and ever will see. We should all get up every morning, kiss the ground and thank our favorite higher power that we live here. Once our brand of freedom is gone you will never see it again, and you seem so willing to just cede your individual sovereignty to worthless nanny state bureaucrats.

 
Comment by technovelist
2009-12-19 17:25:10

Our system as originally set up has proven to be the best system the world has ever seen and ever will see.

I’m not sure it’s quite all that, but it was pretty good. Certainly a lot better than what we have now!

We should all get up every morning, kiss the ground and thank our favorite higher power that we live here.

This is where we part company. While it is still better here than most places, unfortunately it is not nearly what it was even 50 years ago and is going south very rapidly.

Once our brand of freedom is gone you will never see it again, and you seem so willing to just cede your individual sovereignty to worthless nanny state bureaucrats.

Willing? What are we supposed to do about it? They have shown how they can ignore 99-1 responses against things like TARP.

 
Comment by Stpn2me
2009-12-19 22:58:25

That rant by the “bubster” is coming from someone who doesnt know U.S. history or how our country was designed to operate. It’s all about change. Dont you see that. Our federal govt is only supposed to be setting conditions for each state to be able to trade with the world. We are a collection of state, and were never intended to be one govt on a local level. Fight against it all you want, one govt was never intended for the U.S. Only socialists want one govt because it makes more money for them.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-12-19 23:13:17

“…The states are supposed to be separate…” ;-)

“DIVIDED we stand, UNITED we fall” …Jefferson Davis

Thanks, for clearing up that revisionist history. ;-)

 
 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-19 11:12:45

Look ,they think because they can require you to have car insurance in order to drive ,they can require you to have health insurance if you are alive . This would be a windfall for the health insurance companies ,just as it was when it was required that you have car insurance .

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Comment by arizonadude
2009-12-19 11:27:08

I have to admit I dont have health insurance and havent had it for 10 years.My health insurance is a 40 dollar club membership to 24 hour fitness.I try to eat right and get exercise.Seems to work for me.

I am disgusted they might make you have to get health insurance.What a rigged system.I guess if comes to that I will get the cheapest policy w/ the highest deductible on earth.

 
Comment by WHYoung
2009-12-19 11:36:52

“Seems to work for me.”

Hope nothing catastrophic happens to you.

My 18 year old cousin was in a car accident and had an injury similar to Christopher Reeves. He went through the million dollar lifetime limit on his health insurance in a little over a year. Hospital sued his parents for custody so that they could dump him in a state institution a couple hundred miles away.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-12-19 11:57:00

Well that just makes it easier to Look poor…collect medicaid hide assets in IRA’s 401K’s they cant touch……drive a 15 year old car and look poor…

keep valuable assets labeled as a home business. For example: Hey I cant sell my dj equipment , how then would i ever find a way of paying you back?

I think the most logical solution would be to do like my fathers Bricklayers union, deduct $1 to $1.50 per hour for health insurance. that would be about $2000 a year for full time workers. and an extra 25-50 cents hr per dependent yes it would hurt poor people so those making under say $15000 year would pay 50 cents per hour 15-25K 75 cents over $25 k $1 hr.

And self employed would be a similar percentage of income.

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-20 07:05:47

First , I don’t see why medical care costs can’t come down just like real estate prices did . Why should any of these fake prices remain that were the result of lack of competition .

Unless you address the monopoly nature of private Health Insurance these days ,as well as the bad faith of Insurance Companies and their lack of deseire to insure anyone that might be a risk ,than your not addressing the problems in health care,along with the prices being bogus .

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-12-20 21:30:19

Right on, Wiz!

 
 
 
 
Comment by tresho
2009-12-19 09:04:45

Will not that in its self make this bill be tide up in court for many years on constitutional grounds? Since Medicare (which entails mandatory payroll deductions) did not get tied in the courts after it was passed in 1965, I don’t expect anything like that will happen either.

Comment by Go East
2009-12-19 10:58:25

Why has there never been a suit about the constitutionality of taxing for Medicare, then not being able to use it unless you make it to age 65? Sheeple?

Comment by tresho
2009-12-19 13:15:06

Why has there never been a suit about the constitutionality of taxing for Medicare Either no one has thought of it, or they took their idea to lawyers, and they didn’t think much of it.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 08:18:56

What again is the argument against reinstating the Glass-Steagall Act, which put a firewall between lending and gambling activities? The banking system worked just fine until the rules separating depository institution operations from Wall Street casino operations were scrapped.

The “different regulation” I would personally recommend is to bust up the big five investment trusts that constitute what I affectionately refer to as Megabank, Inc into smaller, more competitive operations, none of which is large enough to pose a too-big-to-fail systemic threat to the global financial system. The wave of innovation that would be sparked by carving the oligopolistic cartel at the top of the U.S. banking system into leaner, more competitive operations would be an economic shot in the arm heard around the world that could restore the U.S. to a preeminent position in the global economic order.

But it would also limit crony capitalism opportunities for the Dodds and Franks of the world, and would curtail the almighty Fed’s power, so please forget that I suggested this.

* The Wall Street Journal
* OPINION
* DECEMBER 18, 2009, 9:09 P.M. ET

Not All Banks Are Created Alike
Only a few institutions make large trading profits. They should be regulated differently.

By ROBERT G. WILMERS

Congress is moving rapidly toward new financial-services regulation, focused on limiting the sort of “systemic risk” said to have helped bring on the current recession. But we are also in a period where there is great concern about the limited availability of credit to fund companies whose growth could bring down the country’s persistent high unemployment.

Any new regulation of the financial industry must distinguish between firms engaged primarily in speculative trading and lenders linked to the real economy of Main Street. The great danger is that regulation of the former might inadvertently strangle the latter.

Today, not all institutions that call themselves banks, or bank holding companies, operate in similar ways. Traditionally, banks take deposits and make loans to small and mid-sized businesses which, if successful, generate jobs. This sort of banking has long been highly regulated—indeed, more than 4% of many banks’ expenses are devoted to regulatory compliance.

In addition, these traditional banks have been self-insured through payments they make to cover the cost of Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) insurance. Unfortunately, much of this oversight did not extend to institutions such as Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, AIG and others—whose activities did so much to bring on our financial crisis.

The big firms that played a central role in that meltdown, and many others that continue to dominate the financial services industry today, derive far less of their income from deposits and lending than do Main Street banks. Instead, they engage in a range of quite different activities, including trading in loans that others have generated, speculation in stocks and bonds and exotic derivatives.

In fact, 90% of all trading revenues earned by bank holding companies is concentrated in just five firms—Bank of America, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase and Morgan Stanley. These are the institutions showing the renewed profitability that has attracted so much public comment. But much of this improvement comes from trading and speculation. The vast majority of American banks don’t do either.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-19 10:37:43

PB …They are making it to complicated with their proposed reform. They have to bar regulated banks from gambling casinos and bar Wall Street from being a direct lender . They have to do something about Insurance Companies /etc. that
bet on credit default swaps that don’t have the money to back their
bets. In fact ,the faulty credit default business gave a false security for Institutions that were insured on their junk . This credit default world
of bets was just one more fake market that created a new bet for the
money makers . Even in Las Vegas a gambling casino would have to be
able to back their bets or be closed down . Retirement funds should not be allowed in the Wall Street gambling games either . This is a high risk World of crazy short term gambling in which insider advantage operates
no doubt . Finally reserve requirement need to be raised and leverage
lowered by actual laws rather than some reform that only amounts to loopholes the gambling casino can get around . IMHO of course

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 23:15:48

“Even in Las Vegas a gambling casino would have to be
able to back their bets or be closed down.”

The problem with the Las Vegas gambling casinos (versus the Wall Street variety) is that they are not too-big-to-fail; hence they don’t qualify for heads-we-win/tails-you’re-screwed blanket bailout insurance protection from the Fedsury.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 08:43:25

ITEM: Americans are increasing their personal savings and as a result the sales of imported goods are decreasing. This means that the rest of the world has fewer US dollars to spend on, among other things, US Treasuries.

< You tight-fisted consumers are changing the money lending dynamics! China and other big players have fewer dollars to lend the United States and the U.S. cannot force foreigners to loan to us.

Watch for a big push to get Americans to put their savings into U.S. Bonds.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-12-19 12:56:46

Can’t spend much here. I finally got my credit card debt to zero, but just now my income taxes have gone way up. And January my 401k contributions kick back in, leaving me with smaller paychecks.

I’m going to maintain 0 credit card debt all of 2010 and mostly brown bag my lunches all year.

Thank Congress for imposing trillions of unconstitutional spending and giving me and other hapless taxpayers the bill.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-12-19 18:56:50

Bill, congratulations on your income taxes going way up! “Way up” implies an income windfall of some sort.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-12-19 20:03:48

Thanks. Actually the income went up only a tad 4%. My tax shelter expired. That is why my taxes are going way up. It just is not convenient for me to make a change to get the tax shelter back for the time being.

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Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 09:03:33

Henry Ford said on February 11, 1934:

“Let them fail; let everybody fail! I made my fortune when I had nothing to start with, by myself and my own ideas. Let other people do the same thing. If I lose everything in the collapse of our financial structure, I will start in at the beginning and build it up again.”

Volumes are written daily on what ‘must’ be done to save this or that, simple fact is… Everyone is not a winner baby!

Comment by Stpn2me
2009-12-19 10:44:53

Everyone is not a winner baby!

Tell that to progressives. It’s not fair when someone works for something and wants to keep it for their family.

Comment by measton
2009-12-19 16:23:27

Not only do we not have a progressive tax system we have a regressive one. The top 0.1% pay a lower total effective tax rate than people making 60k a year.

I would suggest that many are wealthy not wealthy because of hard work but because of manipulation of the system and markets and gov welfare. No bid contracts, monopolies and oligopolies,TARP, AIG, and FED bailout are perfect examples.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-12-19 17:55:24

Suggest? It’s been proven time and time again and even published in MSM.

Believe it or not.

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Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-19 10:57:53

So true wmbz . The powers want to be able to pick the winners and losers ,when it should be determined by the choices a entity made .
What a rigged Gambling Casino . This causes me to feel like prudent choices will not be rewarded and laws can be changed after the fact to prop up the losers . This is not the America that I use to operate in

You certainly should not be a winner if you made bad choices ,committed fraud and were greedy and blind . Welfare to gamblers ,this is a outrage ,maybe welfare to the true downtrodden ,which doesn’t mean giving them a 2000 sq; house they can’t afford for God sakes .

I really believe that the Political and Institutional/Corporations Powers these days
are so nuts that that they can’t even see that the destruction of the American people ,especially the great middle and upper middle class ,will destroy them eventually . They think that they have a whole big World out there to exploit ,but like all greedy plans ,they end up destroying everything within time . Kick the problem down the road until it finally blows up .

Comment by Muggy
2009-12-19 12:01:51

“The powers want to be able to pick the winners and losers ,when it should be determined by the choices a entity made.”

Do you ever hang out with politicians and/or developers? They hate people like us. We’re not trying, we’re stingy, gloomy, etc.

Comment by Gadfly
2009-12-19 13:55:38

Or as the Amway folks like to parrot: “stinkin’ thinkin’”.

Every time I watch the so-called financial news these days I feel like I’m getting recruited for another network marketing business.

Grab wallet, cover all orifices, and run like hell in the opposite direction.

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Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-19 17:05:31

The PR campaign that every thing if great and fair is so insulting ,as if people don’t see that they are being screwed .

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-12-19 17:57:40

It’s far, far worse than insulting.

It’s effective.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-12-19 10:02:00

We’re off to Skaneateles and Rochester for the holidays today. I’m looking forward to a little time with family and drinking with friends (we’ll actually have babysitters!). I’m sure there will be many “we just bought a house” conversations with friends, and many “why haven’t you bought a house?” conversations with family.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-12-19 10:07:41

You should say “because we are not @ss-munching ret@rds with a sub-human IQ.”

A good offense is the best defense - that’s what I always say.

Comment by jane
2009-12-20 01:51:04

A pleasure to read an FPSS original, once more!

FPSS - have been looking for the url of your cooking blog in vain.
I just plumb misplaced it. Can you tell us again? Tx.

Comment by CA renter
2009-12-20 22:42:07
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Comment by combotechie
2009-12-19 10:09:20

Muggy, take a copy of the mortgage reset chart with you and use it as a talking point.

Comment by Muggy
2009-12-19 10:30:01

Excellent suggestions, guys. I can already imagine the joy of friends and family reuniting with me for the holidays. LOL.

Comment by Muggy
2009-12-19 10:53:01

“Hey man, great to see you! Congrats on the kids and the degree. Oh, what’s that you got there? A mortgage rest chart? Awesome, you’ve always partied hard — w00t w00t!”

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Comment by ahansen
2009-12-19 13:06:17

LOL. Have a hoot, Mugz.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-12-19 15:44:14

Thanksgiving several years ago, I bersuaded by BiL that buying an investment property was a BAD idea. He said “worse comes to worse, the bank just reposessed the house and you’re no worse off.” I explained to him the Maryland is a full recourse state, after the bank forecloses and sells your house, they can sue you for THE REST OF THEIR MONEY. And I explained that by historic standards, house prices were quite high compared to rents.

Comment by rms
2009-12-20 00:38:34

Fast forward. . . what does sis have to say now?

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 10:10:17

Renovating doesn’t pay off like it used to.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — Home remodelers are getting less bang for their bucks. For the fourth straight year, renovation jobs have added less to resale values relative to their costs, according to an annual Remodeling Cost vs. Value Report released this week by the National Association of Realtors.

The average remodeling job cost $50,908 in 2009 and added $32,497 to the value of the home, a ratio of 63.8%. That was down from a cost-to-value ratio of 67.3% in 2008, when the average was $49,866 and the added value was $33,568.

One common renovation, a mid-priced bath remodel, for example, runs an average of $16,142 and adds only $11,454 to the resale value of a house — recouping just 71% of its cost. In 2008, the same job cost less — $15,899 — and typically added $11,857 to the home’s value, recouping 74.6%.

The most financially successful jobs are smaller-scale, lower-cost renovations that improve the exterior appearance of homes. In this down real estate market, curb appeal is king.

“Once again, this year’s report highlights the importance of a home’s first impression,” said NAR President Vicki Cox Golder, owner of Vicki L. Cox & Associates in Tucson, Ariz.

Ron Phipps, a real estate broker in Rhode Island, said how the house looks from the outside is more important than ever.

“If you’re driving down the street and the house doesn’t have great appeal, it doesn’t matter how nice it is inside,” he said.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-12-19 10:11:46

It should NEVER pay off. You renovate to enjoy the renovations.

It’s a consumable not an investment.

The completely ludicrous notion that it paid for itself is just that.

Comment by MightyMike
2009-12-19 13:47:40

Yes, but part of the enjoyment is the delusion that that the renovation does pay off. Your spend $15,000 to renovate a bathroom and it increases the value of your house by $15,000. So it actually costs you nothing! Isn’t that great? Other fun things that privde enjoyment often cost money, but a renovated bathroom is free!

How much pleasure in life do people get out of a new bathroom? A lot of people out there must be very shallow, or dopey, or something.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-12-19 15:20:35

Good point. In the go go years of the early part of this decade, people at work would yakkity yak about going to Home Depot over the weekend to get more things for their home project. It would be every weekend going to Home Depot.

How fun is that compared to shredding the single tracks on a mountain bike on a crisp clean-air day of 70 degree temperatures? Or of going to Canada for a weekend getaway in B.C.?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 17:13:52

I agree. The renovators made a spurious inference: They believed the value of their homes increased because of home improvements, when in fact all homes (even the crappiest unmaintained shacks) were going through the roof in value, thanks to the Fed’s Brazillions in printing press money that was flowing into the housing market. Now that the housing bubble has popped, this confusion about the value of renovation is likely to soon end.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 17:18:16

Our landlord is replacing our ancient toilets in 2010. I don’t expect the home to go up in value by as much as it costs to replace them, but I do look forward to enjoying my time in the bathroom far more than I do currently, and to saving on our water bill. :-)

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 10:20:37

I built swimming pools for about 25 years and on many occasion the home owner was doing it to enhance the value of their home. Being an honest fellow I more than once burst that bubble and perhaps lost a job or two through the years because of it. However it is a long established fact, that many things one may think enhance the value of a house, in fact detract.

Pools, the majority of the time are a negative to buyers in general. Were as a large master bed&bath along with a large kitchen are a positive. 99% of the time a buyer of a home will want to change something.

Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-12-19 11:06:34

I’ve never been able to figure out one way or another how much (or how little) a pool really adds to the otherwise appraised value of a place. One thing for sure, it greatly reduces the number of potential buyers.

Reducing the pool of buyers (nice pun, huh) doesn’t automatically reduce the value overall, because it increases the value for people who really, really want a pool. But I doubt even in those cases that the increase is anywhere near enough to cover the costs.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 17:15:02

“Being an honest fellow I more than once burst that bubble and perhaps lost a job or two through the years because of it.”

Not only are you a prolific poster, but you are an honest man.

Comment by SUGuy
2009-12-19 18:11:42

Not only are you a prolific poster, but you are an honest man.

There is money in honesty. Look at it this way if the people at Enron were honest they would still be rich and not doing time in jail. In business credibility is every thing. Once you lose your credibility every thing else is easy. :)

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Comment by oxide
2009-12-19 19:17:26

Not in my case. I was honest in a job and got fired for it. :sad:
But then I got a new job where honesty is actually valued. :cool:

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 23:12:33

“There is money in honesty.”

I sense there is currently a severe deficit of honesty (and associated trust) in the U.S. banking system. Moreover, some top bankers are apparently clueless that this might be a problem — seems they think as long as they run the printing press quickly enough, there is no need to restore trust.

 
 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-12-19 18:02:53

16k for a “mid-priced bath remodel?”

There’s the problem right there.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 10:23:01

India Housing to Escape Dubai’s Collapse, Mistry Says (Update1)

(Bloomberg) — India’s property market, where prices have risen as much as 29 percent in major cities, will escape the kind of collapse that afflicted Dubai, said Keki Mistry, incoming head of the nation’s biggest mortgage lender.

“Dubai was very different from India,” Mistry, who was appointed on Dec. 4 as chief executive officer of Housing Development Finance Corp., said in a Bloomberg-UTV interview. In “India, the property market is largely end-user based; in Dubai, the property market is largely investor based.”

Central banks and governments across Asia have been taking steps to rein in property prices this year on concern speculative money inflows will generate asset bubbles. Some areas in China and India may become the “next Dubai” because of debt-fueled property investment, fund manager Mark Mobius said this month, citing Mumbai and Shanghai.

“It wouldn’t be a country-wide situation; isolated pockets of disaster because of over-spending and over-leveraging,” Mobius, who oversees more than $30 billion of emerging-market assets at Templeton Asset Management Ltd., said in a Dec. 2 interview with Bloomberg TV in Hong Kong.

Dubai, the second-biggest sheikhdom in the United Arab Emirates, went from being the world’s best-performing property market to the worst within a year, underscoring the challenge central bankers face in ensuring rapid credit growth doesn’t lead to bubbles.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 17:16:22

“India’s property market, where prices have risen as much as 29 percent in major cities, will escape the kind of collapse that afflicted Dubai, said Keki Mistry, incoming head of the nation’s biggest mortgage lender.”

Denial is a primary symptom of both bubbles and heart attacks. In fact, the Dubai muckamucks were denying their own real estate bubble before it recently popped.

Comment by yensoy
2009-12-19 22:12:44

Your implicit comparison is wrong for many reasons:
1. Supply situation: well situated land with clear ownership (especially large parcels) is very hard to find in Indian cities. Dubai? There’s a huge desert to build on.
2. Demand situation: where are the 1billion folks in Dubai? You think foreigners can create sufficient demand in Dubai, especially when…
3. rule of law: The whole ownership situation in Dubai, especially ownership by foreigners, is a new concept with very recent laws and a whimsical authoritarian regime. Property ownership in India is well understood and despite the shortcomings of the legal system, well enforced.
4. liquidity: While there is a big element of higher liquidity in the system, India remains a mostly closed economy in terms of movement of money in and especially out of the country. Interest rates are over 11% for home loans and 20% down is the norm.

Yes there is a mini bubble in India, more in some areas than others. But comparing India with Dubai is just plain wrong.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-20 00:23:37

You are trippin’, pal. I made no implicit comparison; merely noted that high muckamucks in India are currently denying the existence of a bubble, just as the Dubai muckamucks were denying there was a bubble right up until it popped. I realize it is different in India. In fact, it always is different, isn’t it?

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Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 10:33:47

“Even as we have had to spend our way out of this recession in the near term, we have begun to make the hard choices necessary to get our country on a more stable fiscal footing in the long run.”
-President Barack Obama December 8, 2009

I admit I do pick on this empty suit, but his writers make it so easy.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-12-19 20:33:42

Funny you talking about someone with an empty suit… ;-)

“Yer eyes are as blue as window cleaner.” Comment by wmbz 2009-02-04

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 10:38:23

“Part of the problem is just filtering out the noise in the system. Probably 99% of what you heard is just noise - distracting information, misunderstood phenomena, and dubious data. When you read the commentariat…the pundits…the newscasters, economists, and analysts who are telling you what is happening and what lies ahead, you have to remember that most of them had no idea what was happening two years ago. Now, they have even less of an idea of what is happening”.

~ B.Bonner

Comment by ecofeco
2009-12-19 18:04:24

“…commentariat…”

I love it!

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 10:42:37

The WSJ reports:

“A growing number of people in Arizona, California, Florida and Nevada, where home prices have plunged, are considering what it known as a ’strategic default,’ walking away from their mortgages not out of necessity but because they believe it is in their best financial interests.”

Some 5.5 million people have houses that are 20% or more underwater. One of them, spotlighted in the WSJ, had a house worth $230,000 and a mortgage of $318,000.

Here is one way the problem of too much debt is solved…not by paying it off, but by writing it off. The homeowner in this situation can improve his balance sheet - wiping out $88,000 worth of debt - without lifting a finger. Logically, he could go to the lender and cut a deal. But lenders won’t want to get their customers started on bad habits. So, he will just cease paying his mortgage. His credit rating will suffer. But what does he care? He’s fed up with debt.

The house will be seized by the bank. Then, it will come out of the shadow inventory and into the light of the active housing market - pushing prices down.

The good ol’ WSJ has noticed the big shift in attitudes. No longer able to afford spending, Americans are deciding that spending isn’t cool.

“We seem to be at a cultural inflection point that we haven’t seen since WWII,” said one market researcher.

“Their value system is shifting from aspiring to material wealth to aspiring to a better life,” said another one.

~Clipped from the daily reckoning.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-19 11:06:16

Look ,I had a home for 23 years that sometimes went down in value 10 to 20% ,but that didn’t mean walk . The only reason that people can’t take these down cycles is that they bought a house they couldn’t afford
in the first place and they had short term motives for the purchase . Do you save someone who never intended on living in the house for more than 2 or 3 years anyway and they are just pissed their easy money didn’t pan out ,especially when they didn’t put much of a down payment into it ? I would rather put public funds toward helping the unemployed .

I find that a person losing a job and not being able to find a new one is more of a emergency than a short term housing investment gone bad .

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-12-19 12:15:00

Hey Wiz talk to me, real job training doesn’t exist except for minority jobs..home health aide, truck driver for Fresh Direct, security guards Airport Ramp agents, loaders , and of course here in NYC we got 2500 more training grants and they will all go to the parks dept. to empty garbage cans.

Comment by combotechie
2009-12-19 18:38:07

“Hey Wiz talk to me…”

I’m not Wiz but here’s some thoughts…

Search out career-type jobs that:

1) You like to do. You’re going to spend roughly 1/3 of your life working, get a job that you will want to spend most of your life doing.

2) Can’t be exported (i.e. can’t be done over a phone or computer). Auto repair is one example.

3) Rewards experience. Avoid dead-end jobs. Get a job whereby the more you know the better you get paid.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2009-12-19 22:43:13

combo:

except when you don’t have the money for school and NYC offers job training grants..I looked into it but it seems i am the wrong color or have too much edumaktion.

want to get your GED…we will pay for it…but photoshop, video editing final cut pro.. no way jose

so much for OHbahmaz stimulus plan for me..

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by SUGuy
2009-12-19 11:19:51

We own 3 Saabs and two of them are convertibles. I bought them used. The Saabs lose their value rapidly and are just as much fun to drive as the full size BMW or Audi convertibles for almost one third the price. They give good gas mileage around 28 to 30 on the highways. I was able to buy 3 year old Saabs that sold new for 42K with 40K miles for less than 10K. I will be sad to see this car company go under.

GM to Shut Saab Unit, Quirky Icon of the Road

General Motors Co. said it would wind down its Saab business, marking the near-certain death of one of Sweden’s most storied companies and a car brand with a small but devoted following.

GM had given itself a final chance to complete a sale of the quirky 62-year-old luxury auto maker by year’s end. But it said unsolvable issues arose in late-stage negotiations Friday to sell the company to Spyker Cars NV, a Dutch maker of ultraluxury sports cars.

It is the second time this year that GM’s plans to sell an ailing brand have collapsed. Its efforts to sell Saturn also failed, and the company reversed itself on plans to sell its European car maker, Opel.

While bidders could still emerge for Saab’s remaining assets, including two yet-to-be-launched models, GM’s announcement ushers the car manufacturer spawned from a Swedish plane maker to the junkyard along with Saturn and Pontiac.

In the end, Saab proved to have too small a following to attract large auto makers looking for scale in a global recession.

http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/?p=5787#comments

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 11:24:40

Max Keiser chat’s with Edward Harrison, nothing much new, but apparently the difficulties in Greece are weighing one a few minds.

http://maxkeiser.com/

 
Comment by cougar91
2009-12-19 11:51:56

Yikes it’s almost 2pm here in NJ and only 87 posts? I thought the snow storm on the eastern seaboard would have kept folks at home and blogging. I hope no one is out shopping to keep the economy up?

Meanwhile Happy FDIC Friday shutdowns:

7 Banks Fail Including UmbrellaBank’s Parent and Imperial Capital

It looks like the total number of bank failures for 2009 will be 140. Since today is the last non-holiday Friday for 2009, the FDIC will probably take a break for the rest of 2009. Seven banks failed today, and several were sizable banks. The FDIC wasn’t able to find buyers for 3 of these banks. Consequently, only the insured deposits are being covered. The $250K basic coverage limit does seem to be keeping the uninsured deposits down. The FDIC estimates only $3.2 million out of about $960 million in total deposits of those 3 banks were uninsured.

Three of the closed banks were sizable and offered accounts nationwide on the internet. These include:

* New South Federal Savings Bank, Irondale, AL (parent of UmbrellaBank)
* Imperial Capital Bank, La Jolla, CA
* First Federal Bank of California, Santa Monica, CA (operated FirstFedDirect.com)

The FDIC was able to find buyers for all of these three banks.

 
Comment by cougar91
2009-12-19 11:53:13

Yikes it’s almost 2pm here in NJ and only 87 posts? I thought the snow storm on the eastern seaboard would have kept folks at home and blogging. I hope no one is out shopping to keep the economy up?

Meanwhile Happy FDIC Friday shutdowns:

7 Banks Fail Including UmbrellaBank’s Parent and Imperial Capital

It looks like the total number of bank failures for 2009 will be 140. Since today is the last non-holiday Friday for 2009, the FDIC will probably take a break for the rest of 2009. Seven banks failed today, and several were sizable banks. The FDIC wasn’t able to find buyers for 3 of these banks. Consequently, only the insured deposits are being covered. The $250K basic coverage limit does seem to be keeping the uninsured deposits down. The FDIC estimates only $3.2 million out of about $960 million in total deposits of those 3 banks were uninsured.

Three of the closed banks were sizable and offered accounts nationwide on the internet. These include:

* New South Federal Savings Bank, Irondale, AL (parent of UmbrellaBank)
* Imperial Capital Bank, La Jolla, CA
* First Federal Bank of California, Santa Monica, CA (operated FirstFedDirect)

The FDIC was able to find buyers for all of these three banks.

 
Comment by Sagesse
2009-12-19 12:20:11

Ouch. From my former hunting (rather skiing) grounds. Park City.
Just glanced at vacation rental by owner.
Properties large and small, most booked for less than 30% of the winter. (Some of these may also rent via a property management firm, but most calendars seem having been updated recently. Most management firms do not allow the owner to rent out himself.)

…[Early this year, two of these firms disappeared tens of millions in rental income, instead of paying the owners]….
Vacancies at Christmas and Sundance. Some price competition: half off during Sundance, by private owner with a huge mountain home. Ouch. A friend still has not rented out her place. It’s been empty since spring.

Oh, and I don’t know how reliable foreclosure dot com is. But just the number of listings has tripled for Summit County (Park City) and quintupled for Wasatch next door, in the last three months. Most listings added in October and November.

I just don’t know, but this whole second home industry seems like a virtual reality to me, and a tremendously stupid idea. Wasting resources for lodging that no one needs. Tens of thousands of units mostly empty. See Snowmass and so many others.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 17:09:50

“Properties large and small, most booked for less than 30% of the winter.”

Enjoy your cash-flow-negative alligators, specuvestors!!!

 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-12-19 19:12:29

We just locked in a 12 month apt. rental in Salt Lake yesterday (shares the same Craigslist as Park City) and I was amazed how many rental postings were turning up in PC, at Salt Lake prices. And SL rental rates have fallen, significantly. A lot of new stuff coming on line, and the empty new condo buildings are becoming rentals, one by one.

Way too far to drive for me, but usually one would see a hefty premium in PC about now.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 13:16:10

Thousands plunged in Christmas holiday chaos as travel group goes bust
Daily Mail Reporter

Ticket-holders were turned away from airports and thousands more had their Christmas plans thrown into disarray today after it was announced a travel group had gone into administration.

Allbury Travel Group, which includes the Libra Holidays, Argo Holidays and JetLife brands, ceased trading with 100 holidaymakers currently abroad and about 4,000 customers with forward bookings, the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said.

The Hertfordshire-based firm operated air package holidays and flights to Greece, Cyprus and Egypt from several British airports, including Gatwick, Manchester, Newcastle, Birmingham and Leeds Bradford.
Enlarge Aphrodite Hills Resort, Cyprus

Aphrodite Hills Resort in Cyprus was one of the destinations available - until last night - through Allbury Travel Group

Travellers turned up expecting to fly out for their Christmas breaks today to be told the company had entered administration at midnight.

Laura Tardelli, 35, from Walthamstow, east London, saw her week-long break to Taba Heights in Egypt ruined after she arrived with a friend at Gatwick Airport today.

She said: ‘My friend and I turned up at the check-in desk to be told there was a problem. We at first thought it was to do with the weather but the lady explained that the company had gone into administration at midnight.

Jetlife was one of three brands operated by the travel group

‘There are around 4,000 people with forward bookings and about 100 abroad who probably don’t even know about this. We were told they would have to buy another ticket to get back.

‘I feel totally miffed. The company must have known before midnight that it was going into administration. There’s been no emails, no letters, nothing from them to let us know.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-12-19 13:28:11

From today’s detnews DOT com: Judge refuses to halt sale of the Pontiac Silverdome. He says residents had their hearing. The Silverdome was built in 1975 and many residents were furious when it sold for what amounted to 1 cent on the dollar of its original cost of $55.7 million. IMHO whoever is willing to pay even that little for it is paying way too much for it.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 13:30:15

Published on ShanghaiDaily.com

IT is getting harder for governments to buy United States Treasuries because the US’s shrinking current-account gap is reducing supply of dollars overseas, a Chinese central bank official said yesterday.

The comments by Zhu Min, deputy governor of the People’s Bank of China, referred to the overall situation globally, not specifically to China, the biggest foreign holder of US government bonds.

Chinese officials generally are very careful about commenting on the dollar and Treasuries, given that so much of its US$2.3 trillion reserves are tied to their value, and markets always watch any such comments closely for signs of any shift in how it manages its assets.

China’s State Administration of Foreign Exchange reaffirmed this month that the dollar stands secure as the anchor of the currency reserves it manages, even as the country seeks to diversify its investments.

In a discussion on the global role of the dollar, Zhu told an academic audience that it was inevitable that the dollar would continue to fall in value because Washington continued to issue more Treasuries to finance its deficit spending.

He then addressed where demand for that debt would come from.

“The United States cannot force foreign governments to increase their holdings of Treasuries,” Zhu said, according to an audio recording of his remarks. “Double the holdings? It is definitely impossible.”

Comment by combotechie
2009-12-19 14:22:59

It is getting harder for governments to buy United States Treasuries because the US’s shrinking current-account gap is reducing supply of dollars overseas…”

What does mean? Does this mean (gasp) that there is a global shortage of US dollars?

Comment by Austin_Martin
2009-12-19 14:39:29

It means that we’re buying less of their stuff, so they have less dollars to buy treasuries with.

Comment by combotechie
2009-12-19 14:48:52

Or to buy anything else with.

Check out the post below that talks about about slow shipping because of credit issues.

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Comment by combotechie
2009-12-19 15:05:24

Cash cash cash cash cash cash cash …

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-12-19 16:47:51

Cash is for Kings and Queens. ;)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by tresho
2009-12-19 13:37:50

From today’s detnews DOT com: Slow season for Great Lakes shipping winding down.
– Dan Gallagher, president of the Port Huron-based Lakes Pilots Association, estimated its 10 captains made 40 percent fewer trips this year than in 2008. “It’s been a tough year altogether,” said Gallagher, whose association’s members pilot foreign freighters as they travel through the lakes and toward the Atlantic Ocean.
– The members of the Cleveland-based Lake Carriers’ Association have about 65 US-flagged ships, eight of those freighters didn’t sail this year for lack of cargo, while others carried only a handful of shipments before they were laid up again.
– Imports and exports of goods such as grain, corn and soybeans will increase as credit becomes easier to obtain, Gallagher said. “It is all about credit,” he said. “A load of these products are millions of dollars, and everything is run by credit.”

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 13:43:23

Fujitsu staff begin walkouts over pay, job cuts.

Fujitsu Services’ staff are picketing at the company’s London headquarters today, in protest against pension cuts and compulsory redundancies set for the New Year.

Earlier this week, Unite union members at the firm voted overwhelmingly in favour of strike action, after many Fujitsu workers expressed disgust at the services outfit’s proposed pay freeze and plans to lay off 1,200 staff.

Further stoppages are expected at Fujitsu over the coming weeks warned Unite, which described the strike as the first national walkout in the IT sector in the UK.

It’s expected that at least 1,500 Fujitsu employees will strike today. The company currently employs 11,000 people, who are based at sites including Bracknell, Stevenage, Manchester, Crewe, Belfast, Staines, Basingstoke, Wakefield, Sheffield, Solihull, Telford, Swansea, Slough, Lewes, Warrington, Cardiff, Londonderry, Bristol, Newcastle upon Tyne and London.

“Our members are clearly angry with the way the company has treated them. Their pay has been frozen, compulsory redundancies are being pushed through and their pension scheme is under attack. All of this is happening at a time when the company is making substantial profits,” said Unite IT and communications national officer Peter Skyte.

Comment by eudemon
2009-12-19 18:28:06

I’m surprised Fujitsu is still in business. That company stinks.

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-20 06:37:47

I can see that some Companies that are making profits are using the downturn to screw their employees .

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-12-19 14:08:21

No matter a persons stance on ‘global warming’ the past week in Copenhagen was a colossal waste of time and money. The mere idea that the cast of buffoons involved could reach an agreement that would ’save’ the planet was completely ludicrous. What did come of it though was a commitment to endlessly waste billions, upon billions of dollars. Wonder who will benefit and wonder who will be stuck with the bill?

Castro mocks Obama visit to Copenhagen.
Dec 18

Obama Speech Without Teleprompter Provides Neck Workout

Veteran Cuban leader Fidel Castro on Friday dismissed US President Barack Obama’s trip to UN climate change talks in Copenhagen as a “show,” and complained that the world’s poor will shoulder the burden of any summit agreement.

Castro’s opinion article, titled “The Moment of Truth,” also criticizes the “fascist methods” used by Danish police to put down protesting environmental activists.

“It is already evident that a great catastrophe threatens our species,” wrote Castro, 82.

Perhaps the worst part of the summit “is blind selfishness of a rich and privileged minority that intents to impose the bulk of the necessary sacrifices on the immense majority of planet inhabitants,” Castro wrote.

He opined that “for the chiefs of the empire (the United States), despite their maneuvers and cynical lies, the moment of truth is arriving. Their own allies believe them less and less.”

In the article, which appeared in government-run media, Castro quotes at length leftist Bolivian President Evo Morales and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who both spoke at the summit.

The former Cuban president, who still leads the Cuban Communist Party, earlier criticized Obama for accepting the Nobel Peace Prize and lashed out at his climate policies, accusing the US president of not fighting the “oligarchy of irresponsibly” who are opposing change.

“Obama is not ignorant. Like (Al) Gore, he knows the grave danger that threatens everyone, but he vacillates and is weak in the face of a blind and irresponsible oligarchy in that country,” Castro wrote in an editorial published December 9.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-19 17:08:05

“No matter a persons stance on ‘global warming’ the past week in Copenhagen was a colossal waste of time and money.”

Wasn’t it worth something that a colossal peer-review scandal broke just before the Copenhagen summit, and that the Copenhagen summit was marred by discord? I see the cracks appearing in the global warming alarmists’ power block as a promising development related to the buildup to the Copenhagen climate conclave.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-20 00:11:30

The Financial Times
Climate conference ends in discord
By Fiona Harvey, Ed Crooks and Andrew Ward in Copenhagen

Published: December 18 2009 21:06 | Last updated: December 19 2009 13:34

The Copenhagen climate conference ended on Saturday without unanimous agreement as the world’s biggest economies backed a limited accord that leaders said would form the basis for a future deal to tackle global warming.

Ban Ki-moon, UN secretary-general, acknowledged that the outcome was “not everything we hoped for” but described it as an “essential beginning” as he brought a close to two weeks of fractious negotiations in the Danish capital.

Talks had continued through Friday night into Saturday morning in a bid to reach consensus on a tentative agreement struck between the US, China and other big emerging economies on cuts in greenhouse gas emissions and financing to help developing countries cope with climate change.

But several developing countries, led by Venezuela and Bolivia, refused to endorse the deal, ensuring that the conference would end without an official agreement. Instead, all 193 countries agreed to “take note of the Copenhagen Accord” without committing to accept it.

European Union leaders gave a tepid endorsement to the accord, which they described as the first of “many more steps” needed to curb rising temperatures, but made clear their deep disappointment over the weakness of the commitments and their non-binding nature.

Mr Ban said work must now start to forge broader consensus behind a concrete deal. “We must transform this into a legally binding treaty next year,” he said. “The importance will only be recognised when it’s codified into international law.”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-20 00:14:34

Sounds like global economic production dodged the green bullet this time…

The Financial Times
Marathon turns into merely ‘a first step’
By Ed Crooks, Andrew Ward and Fiona Harvey in Copenhagen
Published: December 19 2009 03:51 | Last updated: December 19 2009 03:51

After two years of excruciatingly detailed negotiations and two weeks of increasingly frenetic haggling, the ”Copenhagen accord” agreed by major economies on Friday night is just 2½-pages long.

No-one is overjoyed by it. Even US president Barack Obama, the first to proclaim a ”success”, admitted that it was ”not the end but the beginning” of action to fight the threat of climate change.

Gordon Brown, Britain’s prime minister, described it as a “first step”, and stressed the difficulty of persuading 192 countries to sign an unprecedented global agreement to fight the threat of global warming.

European and African countries refused to endorse the text immediately, continuing to discuss it into the small hours of Saturday morning, although the EU fell into line a few hours later. Environmental groups were generally horrified, and businesses that will benefit from restrictions on emissions expressed disappointment.

On almost every significant measure of whether a Copenhagen deal was strong or weak, the accord was clearly a weak one.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-20 00:31:23

December 19, 2009 8:01 PM
Mark Steyn: It’s settled; climate circus was a fairy tale
By MARK STEYN
Syndicated columnist
letters@ocregister.com

The best summation of the UN climate circus in Denmark comes from Andrew Bolt of Australia’s Herald Sun: “Nothing is real in Copenhagen – not the temperature record, not the predictions, not the agenda, not the ’solution’.”

Just so. Reuters, for example, carried a moving account of the speech by Ian Fry, lead negotiator for Tuvalu, the beleaguered Pacific island nation soon to be under water because of a planet-devastating combination of your SUV and unsustainable bovine flatulence from Vermont farms. “The fate of my country rests in your hands,” Fry told the meeting. “I make this as a strong and impassioned plea … I woke this morning and I was crying and that was not easy for a grown man to admit,” he continued, “his voice choking with emotion,” in the Reuters reporter’s words. Who could fail to be moved?

“My country, ’tis of thee
Sweet land near rising sea
Of thee I choke!”

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-12-19 16:29:26

Is this a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend even if he was my enemy?????

 
Comment by DD
2009-12-19 19:36:09

Storage Containers for sale. Pick up at depo or we’ll deliver to you. - $1300 (Delivery throughout the Inland Empire)
Date: 2009-12-18, 12:08PM PST
Reply to: sale-ensng-1516148018ATcraigslistDOTorg

New Housing, insulate the thing and you are done!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-20 00:28:30

Sounds like the Keynesian faith that governments should use hair-of-the-dog stimulus to spend their problems away into oblivion is about to get its severest test.

December 19, 2009 7:54 PM
Kevin Hassett: Could U.S. story become a Greek tragedy?
By KEVIN HASSETT
Bloomberg News columnist

A Republican takeover of the House may be the only thing between the U.S. and the abyss.

The world economy shuddered recently as a rating company downgrade of Greek debt set off fears of default. Investors decided to beware of Greeks bearing bonds, and markets stumbled.

Article Tab : Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou, center, speaks during an economic policy speech aimed to soothe international markets increasingly worried by the country’s ballooning public debt and budget deficit, in Athens, Dec. 14, 2009. Greece’s debt has soared to a staggering euro 300 billion (US$ 442 billion), and the country has a 12.7 percent deficit. (AP Photo/Petros Giannakouris)

While the economic data are showing signs of a recovery, there is a genuine risk that the book on this financial crisis has yet to be completed. We may not even have reached the climax.

Governments around the world have propped up their failing financial institutions with borrowed money. We used to have overleveraged banks; we replaced them with overleveraged governments.

Panics start small and spread. If Greece goes down, almost every Western government will be at risk.

The sad fact is that Greece is hardly exceptional when it comes to fiscal insanity. If the current Greek budget outlook proves to be accurate, then its deficit over this year and next will average a whopping 10.9 percent of gross domestic product. Small wonder that investors headed for the exits. A deficit that high could easily turn into a fiasco.

As bad as that picture is, it’s worse in the U.S. Our deficit this year, according to the latest estimate from the Congressional Budget Office, will be 11.2 percent of gross domestic product.

Syracuse University economist Len Burman, the modest and sober budget expert who was a top official in President Bill Clinton’s Treasury Department, told the Washington Post that according to a model he has developed to study the current situation, a “catastrophic budget failure” might happen.

Burman added, “I try not to get too depressed, because if I really thought it was going to play out the way this model works, I would just move to a cabin in Montana and stockpile gold and guns.”

Comment by technovelist
2009-12-20 09:47:57

Syracuse University economist Len Burman, the modest and sober budget expert who was a top official in President Bill Clinton’s Treasury Department, told the Washington Post that according to a model he has developed to study the current situation, a “catastrophic budget failure” might happen.

Burman added, “I try not to get too depressed, because if I really thought it was going to play out the way this model works, I would just move to a cabin in Montana and stockpile gold and guns.”

And we can’t have that, now can we?

Well, some of us can’t, anyway, not if we want to “keep our phony-baloney jobs” (with apologies to Mel Brooks).

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-20 12:25:24

A mass exodus to Montana cabins highlighted by a sharp uptick in gun and gold sales would be very good for the future value of The Precious™.

 
 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-12-20 06:15:08

Show Us the E-Mail
By ELIOT SPITZER, FRANK PARTNOY and WILLIAM BLACK
Published: December 19, 2009

WE end this extraordinary financial year with news that the Treasury is in discussions with American International Group about selling the taxpayers’ 80 percent ownership stake in that company. The government recently permitted several banks to break free of its potential oversight by repaying loans made during the rescue. But with respect to A.I.G., the Treasury should not move so fast. There is one job left to do.

A.I.G. was at the center of the web of bad business judgments, opaque financial derivatives, failed economics and questionable political relationships that set off the economic cataclysm of the past two years. When A.I.G.’s financial products division collapsed — ultimately requiring a federal bailout of $180 billion — those who had been prospering from A.I.G.’s schemes scurried for taxpayer cover. Yet, more than a year after the rescue began, crucial questions remain unanswered. Who knew what, and when? Who benefited, and by exactly how much? Would A.I.G.’s counterparties have failed without taxpayer support?

The three of us, as experienced investigators and prosecutors of financial fraud, cannot answer these questions now. But we know where the answers are. They are in the trove of e-mail messages still backed up on A.I.G. servers, as well as in the key internal accounting documents and financial models generated by A.I.G. during the past decade. Before releasing its regulatory clutches, the government should insist that the company immediately make these materials public. By putting the evidence online, the government could establish a new form of “open source” investigation.

Once the documents are available for everyone to inspect, a thousand journalistic flowers can bloom, as reporters, victims and angry citizens have a chance to piece together the story. In past cases of financial fraud — from the complex swaps that Bankers Trust sold to Procter & Gamble in the early 1990s to the I.P.O. kickback schemes of the late 1990s to the fall of Enron — e-mail messages and internal documents became the central exhibits in our collective understanding of what happened, and why.

So far, prosecutors and regulators have been unable to build such evidence into anything resembling a persuasive case against any financial institution. Most recently, a jury acquitted Bear Stearns employees of fraud related to the collapse of the subprime mortgage market, in part because available e-mail messages suggested the employees had done nothing wrong.

Perhaps A.I.G.’s employees would also be judged not guilty. But we would like to see the record to find out. As fraud investigators, we would like to examine the trading patterns of A.I.G.’s financial products division, and its communications with Goldman Sachs and other bank counterparties who benefited from the bailout. We would like to understand whether the leaders of A.I.G. understood that they were approaching a financial Armageddon, and whether they alerted their counterparties, regulators and shareholders to the impending calamity.

We would like to see how A.I.G. was able to pay huge bonuses to its officers based on the short-term income they received from counterparties for selling guarantees that, lacking adequate loss reserves, the companies would never be able to honor. We would also like to know what regulators knew, and what they did with the information they had obtained.

Congress wants answers, too. This month, during hearings on Ben Bernanke’s nomination to a second term as chairman of the Federal Reserve, several senators fumed about being denied access to his A.I.G.-related documents.

No doubt, some of the e-mail messages contain privileged conversations among lawyers. Others probably include private information that is irrelevant to A.I.G.’s role in the crisis. But the vast majority of these documents could be made public without legal concern. So why haven’t the Treasury and the Federal Reserve already made sure the public could see this information? Do they want to protect A.I.G., or do they worry about shining too much sunlight on their own performance leading up to and during the crisis?

A.I.G.’s board of directors, a distinguished group of senior business executives, holds the power to decide whether to publish the e-mail messages and other documents. But those directors serve at the behest of A.I.G.’s shareholders. And while small shareholders of public corporations generally do not have the right to force publication of internal documents, in this case one shareholder — the taxpayer — holds an 80 percent stake. Anyone with such substantial ownership has effective control over corporate decisions, even if the corporation is a large public one.

Our stake is held by something called the A.I.G. Credit Facility Trust, whose three trustees are Jill M. Considine, a former chairman of the Depository Trust Company and a former director of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York; Chester B. Feldberg, a former New York Fed official who was chairman of Barclays Americas from 2000 to 2008; and Douglas L. Foshee, chief executive of the El Paso Corporation and chairman of the Houston branch of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas.

Ultimately, these three trustees wield all the power at A.I.G., and have the right to vote out the 11 directors if the directors are unwilling to publish the e-mail messages. In other words, if these three people ask A.I.G.’s board to post the messages and other documents, the board will have no choice but to comply. Ms. Considine, Mr. Feldberg and Mr. Foshee have the opportunity to be among the most effective and influential investor advocates in history. Before A.I.G. escapes, they should demand the evidence.

The longer it remains hidden, the less likely we will be to answer many questions about the A.I.G. collapse and the larger economic crisis — including the most important one: how do we prevent a repeat? Time is the enemy of effective investigation; records disappear, memories fade. The documents should be released — without excuses, or delay.

Eliot Spitzer is a former attorney general and governor of New York. Frank Partnoy is a professor of law at the University of San Diego. William Black is a professor of economics and law at the University of Missouri-Kansas City.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-20 08:15:25

Well..The Powers knew AIG was corrupt in 2004 because they were starting a investigation on them at the time for starters . Funny how this entity was the greatest receiver of Bail Out funds from Hank
Paulson .
The fact remains that the choice to give the greatest bail out to AIG was that the Lenders and Wall Street Investment Houses would get 100% on the dollar for the junk paper that was insured by AIG ,instead of taking the loss of the true mark to market ,or waiting in line like any creditor
for the AIG downfall . Now the taxpayers own 80% of a corrupt
Insurance Company that is being used to give 100% pay-offs on insurance coverage on junk paper . And the new rub is that they think they need to pump more into AIG . I would not be surprised if they have continued to write insurance on junk real estate loan paper even after the BAIL OUT .

Doesn’t anybody find it rather odd that that a Insurance Company gets bailed out ,and a one that didn’t have reserves to even pay their claims from the gambling bets they made . Goldman’s and others wanted 100% payoff on their bad paper ,its as simple as that .This Company AIG should of been shut down ,or allowed to go BK immediately ,and than after investigation the Powers could of decided what kind of bail-out could of been given to Insurance
claimants that were victimized by such a Insurance Company that
insured papers without ability to pay on claims . This is a example of
the kinds of unbacked leverage games that were going on in the World of credit default swaps that apparently weren’t regulated .
The benefit that a Company enjoyed by having insurance on bad paper is that they could advertise that they were insured ,making it so much easier to sell junk paper that was insured .

Does anybody see how sinister mixing the unregulated worlds with the regulated worlds of Wall Street/Lenders was a great deal of the problem ?
The foregoing is IMHO .

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-20 12:23:44

Spitzer for U.S. Attorney General. Job No. 1: Clean up the riffraff in the FIRE sector.

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-12-20 06:25:36

And all through the mall there arose quite a chatter
They ran from the stores to see what was the matter
Cause over by Santa a picture was snapped
A good lookin lady jumped off of his lap
The children in line sceamed out Mom can you see!
The parents just said that`s just his Christmas tree
The manager yelled at the guard and the elf
Get Santa a present to cover himself
The mothers all blushed and their faces turned red
As visions of Santa now danced through their heads
Santa just smiled cause the doctor was right
The Viagra he gave him was working all night
He told Donner and Blitzen I`m feelin so good
It`s been two-hundred years since I`ve had Christmas wood
And as Santa walked out on that cold winters day
That good lookin lady got into his sleigh
It`s a good thing that old Mrs. Claus never knew
What that lady and Santa were going to do
But that good lookin lady saved Christmas they say
Cause you can`t get down the chimney with your d–k that way.

Ho Ho Ho
Merry Christmas

Comment by CA renter
2009-12-21 02:02:37

LOL! That was great! :)

 
 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-20 07:40:12

I was thinking about this the other day . You have the President of the United States going on National Television saying to Americans that Health care reform is necessary to keep the private health care companies honest .
So in essence the President admits that Health Care is dishonest and needs reform . Doesn’t this strike you ? So, if a Industry was dishonest ,seems to me the lawmakers could immediately make laws that bust the crimes and
dishonesty . Apparently the Health Care Companies abused their favorable treatment from the laws from the Politicians thus far , just like the Banking industry ,and it’s time for reforming them . You don’t even have to go to a public option to do this . Make laws that they can’t do this or that and also bust their monopolies .

So much of whats wrong today occurred in the last 10 to 15 years when the Corporations and Wall Street got such favorable treatment with laws and repeal of laws from the Politicians to begin with . These Entities went haywire with their new found freedom to fleece ,thanks to the bribed Politicians . The Politicians can correct their original madness and they don’t owe these bad faith Entities anything. Wall Street created a fake bubble in real estate , Health insurance Companies went about the process of fleecing the public regarding health care with their monopolies and bad faith cancelling of any risk ,and they took control over the Doctors in a unholy alliance ,that decrease actual health care .

Congress/Senate paved the way for Globalism which created the net result of loss jobs for Americans and competition with salve labor Countries . Only traitors to their Country would do this ,but lets just call it a mistake ,but they could undo those mistakes . I am sick and tired of every time the Politicians go to draft a Bill that they are beholding to
the ENTITIES that abused their favorable treatment and already enjoyed
windfall profit they didn’t deserve to begin with . As I have said before ,
Companies use to get by on much smaller profit margins but now they think that its their God Given right to fleece the public ,without competition , while enjoying hand out after handout from the government as if they were welfare cases instead of the greedy Entities they really are .

Comment by CA renter
2009-12-21 02:04:03

+1,000!

 
 
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