December 27, 2009

A Period Of Epic Abnormality

The News Journal reports from Delaware. “Milton Delgado put a down payment on his dream three years ago: a three-bedroom 1,715-square-foot condominium at The Promenade in Middletown. Delgado was one of dozens who laid out thousands of dollars after seeing glossy brochures showing a deluxe housing complex complemented by movie theaters and upscale shops. But Delgado has watched his dream fade, along with the prospect of recovering his money. He has been trying to get his $16,711 deposit back for more than a year.”

“‘Every day I was driving by, saying, ‘I can’t wait to see a hole. I can’t wait to see a hole,’ Delgado said. ‘And I never saw a hole. The only hole was in my wallet.’”

“Delgado recently obtained his Ph.D. in education from Wilmington University. ‘I didn’t just go in blindly and plop down money on a pretty little dollhouse,’ Delgado said. ‘I’m supposed to be educated, among the top of the people around, and I got pulled in just like everyone else.’”

The Virginian Pilot. “Dan Bassett lost more than $50,000 when he sold his Chesapeake home in August. The enlisted analyst had to move after the Air Force reassigned him to Florida, but he thought he would qualify for a new government program designed to help service members recoup losses from such home sales. His application was denied.”

“The database used by the Corps of Engineers to determine eligibility showed that few cities in Hampton Roads qualified - either because home values in the past three years had fallen less than 10 percent or in some cases had risen, said Don Chapman, who manages the Homeowners Assistance Program for the corps. That differs from figures tracked by the Virginia Beach-based multiple listing service, which shows median prices for existing homes in the region have declined about 10 percent since 2006.”

“Bassett, 36, purchased his Western Branch home in June 2006 for $332,900. He put his home up for sale in May and eventually sold it for $299,610 - a loss of $33,290, not including the closing costs and fees, which added up to more than $20,000. Bassett began working with his real estate agent to compile home sales data from his neighborhood to show the corps that he shouldn’t be disqualified. Eventually, the corps relented and now won’t disqualify service members just because they live in Chesapeake. Other cities in Hampton Roads are now eligible as well.”

“‘You have to be persistent,’ Bassett said. ‘My beacon of hope was that the government would at least help me out with Realtor fees and closing costs.’”

The County Times in Pensylvania. “It’s been over a year since Madeline Gilford, the actress, pro­ducer, and unapologetic social activist, died suddenly at age 84, in April of 2008. Like so many Americans, Madeline borrowed against her home during the real estate boom, refinancing more than once, and now the foreclosed home is worth less than the mortgage that Washington Mutual (now JPMorgan Chase) holds.”

“Lisa Gilford lives in Denver now, but she tried to keep up the home in Bethlehem for a while after her mother died, paying the mortgage for a couple of months, she said, but she just couldn’t afford the extra expense long term. Ms. Gilford said she had hoped that the home would sell quickly in foreclosure, but the couple of people who were interested in proposing a ’short sale’ to WaMu got nowhere.”

“That the bank would not respond to inquiries about a short sale on the house makes Lisa Gilford’s blood boil. ‘Why would a mortgage company allow a place to blight like that in a neighborhood like that?’ she asked. ‘They absolutely shut us out. It may not be illegal, but it’s immoral,’ she added.”

The Worcester Business Journal in Massachusetts. “At least for many types of real estate, prices aren’t ready to rebound, according to real estate investor Russ Haims. But whether the lack of a rebound is a bad thing depends on where you’re standing. Haims said the federal tax credit for first time homebuyers, which has been extended through April 2010, has bumped up demand, but only temporarily.”

“‘I see more factors that indicate a downward trend than anything encouraging to bring it up,’ he said. It doesn’t help, Haims said, that foreclosures are continuing to stack up on the market. ‘The banks presently are overwhelmed with what they have already in their delinquency pipeline,’ he said. ‘There’s still going to be a lot of cheap inventory that banks are going to be looking to sell.’”

“Jeff Hall, president of the Worcester Regional Association of Realtors, says..right now, many short sales fall through as lenders take as much as eight months to consider an offer. He said he thinks more than half of short sales end up not going through because buyers get frustrated with the process and move on. Hall said the market is still facing an inflow of foreclosures, but lenders are making a conscious effort not to let them disrupt price levels. Many are trying to use loan modifications to keep people in their homes, or at least help owners stay in their homes in the short term to minimize the amount of property sitting empty.”

“‘It won’t be like a flood,’ Hall said. ‘They will space it out over time so there is just kind of a regular flow of foreclosures into the market.’”

The Boston Globe in Massachusetts. “Federal tax breaks, historically low mortgage rates, and an improving economy sparked a record surge in Massachusetts home sales last month. Michael LeBlanc…just bought a three-bedroom ranch in Sherborn, said he and his wife, Jane, had been thinking about buying a home for about two years. While they qualified for the tax credit, it wasn’t the main factor driving their decision. A low mortgage interest rate, 4.875 percent, and a sharp drop in the price, to $450,000 from $529,000, made the home affordable. They also have a 9-month-old daughter.”

“‘I really wanted to be smart about it, and what was important to me is that we bought our house when we were ready,’ said LeBlanc, 33, who works at EMC Corp. in Hopkinton. ‘We were waiting for the right opportunity. We feel lucky.’”

From Inside Jersey. “Home prices look as if they’ve reached their lowest points, and people are starting to take deep breaths and buy again. It’s beneficial, too, that the federal government has helped keep mortgage rates down, in the 5 percent range, and Congress extended and expanded tax credits so they reach almost all potential buyers — not just first-timers anymore. Together, this means houses remain more affordable than they were for decades.”

“Overbuilt Hudson County will continue to struggle. Manhattan’s weak market is sapping demand from Hudson County, and deep South Jersey is hurt by being far from major job centers — Philadelphia and New York — and by Atlantic City’s losing streak.”

“New home builders had it rough last year, selling a third of what had been moving. Sales of new homes have been slower to pick up pace than existing homes. ‘We don’t really have a lot of down to go,’ says Joseph Riggs, group president in charge of New Jersey and other areas for K. Hovnanian Homes. ‘We think we really only have one way to go, and that’s up.’”

The Press of Atlantic City. “Egg Harbor Township wants to see the seedy strip of motels…replaced by a more upscale array of hotels, restaurants, stores and homes. The idea of fixing West Atlantic City is not new. Egg Harbor Township politicians and other residents have been pushing to redevelop West Atlantic City for at least two decades. ”

“The peak time for developing may have already come and gone, according to James Hughes, the dean of Rutgers University’s Edward J. Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy. Atlantic City’s economy was ‘hot’ during the late 1990s boom and there was less competition from other casinos, Hughes said. Furthermore, the low credit rates, lax lending standards and American consumer overspending created ‘a period of epic abnormality’ for building projects from 2000 to 2006.”

“‘We had an economic wild party, and economic wild parties are often followed by economic wild hangovers,’ Hughes said. ‘We’re probably not at the mid-stage of the hangover yet.’”

From Marketplace. “New York City’s construction boom went bust so fast some of the condominium buildings are standing unfinished. But proposals to turn them into affordable housing units have been a tough sell. Alisa Roth reports.”

“Roth: ‘Queensboro Plaza is a just a couple of stops out of Manhattan. I come through on my way to work. The tracks are elevated here, so the platform looks out over the landscape, which is covered with construction sites and new condo buildings. Places like these popped up all over the city when credit was cheap and real estate was expensive.’”

“‘When the economy fell apart, so did a lot of these projects. In some cases, the developers couldn’t afford to finish them. And in others, buyers just weren’t interested anymore.’”

“Rafael Cestero (is) the commissioner of housing preservation and development in New York. He’s worried that these kinds of open construction sites and empty buildings could bring blight back to New York. Cestero: ‘We don’t want vacant buildings, buildings that are unable to sell, unable to rent up. We don’t want those buildings and the fact that they are vacant to further destabilize the markets in those neighborhoods.’”

From Reuters. “Boutique investment bank Westwood Capital, veteran apartment building owner and manager Gerald Guterman, and appraiser Jonathan Miller plan to buy $1 billion worth of new condominium buildings from struggling banks and convert them into rental apartments.”

“The boom of the past decade grew out of low interest rates that made loans easy to get. Abundant low-interest loans boosted condominium prices to the tune of an average of $1.5 million to $2 million for a New York condominium. ‘If you look at the window of the expansion of condominium development, it correlates with the credit boom, and now we’re past that,’ Miller said.”

“There is no shortage of inventory. In Manhattan alone, about 6,500 condo units completed or near completion but have not been listed for sale. Add to that new listings on the market, and that figure jumps to 8,500. In New York City there are about 22,000 condos completed or near completion, but not listed for sale. That’s more than 26,000, counting new units on the market.”

The Richmond Times Dispatch. “This month, Virginia saw its first bank go belly up since the financial markets turned upside down a year ago — and more failures are likely. Greater Atlantic Bank, a federally chartered thrift institution in Reston, was taken over by regulators Dec. 4 because of rising losses on commercial real estate loans, a scenario that could be replayed over and over this coming year.”

“‘It’s a tough time for all banks, some more than others,’ said Frank Bell III, CEO of Bank of Virginia. ‘At the end of the day, big or small, we all have the same objective and that is to maintain a sound banking system. In this environment, it sometimes feels like nailing Jell-O to the wall.’”

“T. Gaylon Layfield III, CEO of Xenith Corp. in Richmond (said) ‘Banking might seem to the average person like looking into a black box, but a sound and stable banking system is the bedrock of our economy, of our free-enterprise system.’”

“Bruce T. Whitehurst, CEO and president of the Virginia Bankers Association, said it remains to be seen how much damage will be caused by commercial real estate loans. ‘There has been an awful lot of speculation,’ he said.”

The Associated Press. “Hocking the house for quick cash is a lot harder than it used to be, and it’s causing headaches for homeowners, banks and the economy. Now, the days of tapping your house for easy money have gone the way of soaring home prices. A quarter of all homeowners are ineligible for home equity loans because they owe more on their mortgage than what the house is worth. Those who have equity in their homes are finding banks far more stingy. Many with home-equity loans are seeing their credit limits reduced dramatically.”

“At the peak of the housing boom in 2006, banks made $430 billion in home equity loans and lines of credit, according to the trade publication Inside Mortgage Finance. From 2002 to 2006, such lending was equal to 2.8 percent of the nation’s economic activity, according to a study by finance professors Atif Mian and Amir Sufi of the University of Chicago. For the first nine months of 2009, only $40 billion in new home equity loans were made. The impact on the economy: close to zero.”

“Holly Scribner, 34, and her husband took out a $20,000 home equity loan in mid-2007 — just as the housing market began its swoon. They used the money to replace sinks and faucets, paint, buy a snow blower and make other improvements to their home in Nashua, N.H.”

“The $200 monthly payment was easy until property taxes jumped $200 a month…and the family ran into other financial difficulties as the recession took hold. Their home’s value fell from $279,000 to $180,000. They could no longer afford to make payments on either their first $200,000 mortgage or the home equity loan. Scribner, who is a stay-at-home mom with three children, avoided foreclosure by striking a deal with the first mortgage lender, HSBC, which agreed to modify their loan and reduce payments from $1,900 a month to $1,100 a month. The home equity lender, Ditech, refused to negotiate. Scribner’s husband, Scott, works at an auto loan financing company but is looking for a second job to supplement the family’s income.”

“The family is still having trouble making regular payments on the home-equity loan. The latest was for $100 in November. ‘It was a huge mess. I ruined my credit,’ Holly Scribner says. ‘We did everything right, we thought, and we ended up in a bad situation.”’




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87 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-12-27 08:53:05

‘Jeff Hall, president of the Worcester Regional Association of Realtors, says…the market is still facing an inflow of foreclosures, but lenders are making a conscious effort not to let them disrupt price levels. Many are trying to use loan modifications to keep people in their homes, or at least help owners stay in their homes in the short term to minimize the amount of property sitting empty.’

“‘It won’t be like a flood,’ Hall said. ‘They will space it out over time so there is just kind of a regular flow of foreclosures into the market.’”

BTW, I am still planning to have a series on REIC collusion soon. I’ve just been overwhelmed with busted pipes and related weather problems in these local foreclosures. For those that have written in, please be patient and I haven’t forgotten your input.

Comment by Muggy
2009-12-27 09:02:23

“I am still planning to have a series on REIC collusion soon.”

Thanks. That seems to be where we’re at right now.

My neighborhood is peppered with empty houses, and yet, none of them are on the market. I have been in my current location for 2.5+ years, and some homes have been empty since I moved in.

I don’t understand how this type of price-fixing is legal.

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-12-27 09:07:09

IMO, it isn’t legal and I think it’s outrageous that these people casually refer to it all the time in the press.

Comment by Muggy
2009-12-27 09:44:47

“IMO, it isn’t legal and I think it’s outrageous that these people casually refer to it all the time in the press.”

Well, I have many professional connections to law enforcement, so I’d love to know exactly how to approach this. I don’t know anyone at the Tampa FBI field office, but I have no problem asking around and knocking on doors.

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Comment by In Montana
2009-12-27 19:42:05

Need to get your district attorney or AG interested, have a grand jury or something. Helps if they’re ambitious and want to run for office…a Giuliani or Spitzer type.

 
 
Comment by scdave
2009-12-27 10:01:20

Maybe it was part of the deal Ben….We will give you cheap money so you can attempt to stabilize your balance sheet but in return you are going to slow play the foreclosure process..

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Comment by Ben Jones
2009-12-27 10:04:57

I have heard such things through the grapevine. A couple of under-oath interviews might be interesting.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-27 16:21:49

Would a quid pro quo of low mortgage interest rates to inflate the value of MBS in exchange for a slower pace of foreclosures qualify as a “monetary policy topic” whose investigation in an audit would compromise the Fed’s monetary policy independence?

 
 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-12-27 13:59:34

I don’t understand how this type of price-fixing is legal.

Lets say YOU own one of those vacant houses. Obviously, the market is currently flooded with properties. Equally obvious is that you will suffer a serious loss if you choose to sell it in the current market environment.

Fortunately, you can afford to carry the property for a while and to wait for better conditions. (Why or how you can afford to do so is immaterial.)
You (wisely) choose NOT to put the property up for sale at this time.

Are you in collusion with other sellers who think and act likewise? Should you be forced to sell or be prosecuted?

You could sell… it wouldn’t kill ya.. but should you? Must you? Can the law / government force you to make a dumb, unprofitable move?
——–

Selling is an option. Holding is an option. I think all property owners should be allowed to hold their property if they choose to… as if it were their constitutional right to do so… and if everyone chooses to do the smart thing and to hold their properties off the market, so be it.

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-12-27 14:22:19

Lenders are required to dispose of foreclosures. And history has shown that the longer the hold the less they will get, so they are harming their share and bond holders as well.

This is in addition to the point of price fixing.

Next…

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-12-27 14:56:27

Price fixing?
Go shopping. Just about every item for sale is the same price or close enough to it that it doesn’t matter where you buy it.
Can we therefore conclude that all industries are guilty of collusion and price fixing? To say yes would require a very narrow vision.

Industries always attempt to keep prices and profits as high as possible, but it’s the market economy as a whole that “fixes” prices. The economy may allow stable prices, or it might force lower or higher prices. It’s influences are beyond any industry’s (or government) control.
——

…history has shown that the longer the hold the less they will get..

Sure, they’ll probably get more dollars per house if they sell all those properties now… AND likely go bankrupt.
“The operation was a success.. but the patient died.”

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-12-27 16:33:41

Lenders are required to dispose of foreclosures.

Perhaps not anymore. Nowadays, banks don’t have to mark to market, they don’t have to follow transparent accounting rules, they don’t have to maintain a real capital cushion from depositor savings, and most importantly, they don’t have to listen to the President or Congress or even the Fed.

The rules have changed virtually overnight, and clearly not for the better.

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-28 01:47:19

More importantly ,the lenders will pond a punch of that junk off on the government in one way or another at a higher than real value so they are not motivated to clear it . Plus ,they are most likely overwhelmed with foreclosures and trying to loan modify and all that jazz .

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-27 16:23:06

Joey —

Are you really as clueless as your questions suggest, or do you just enjoy playing dumb. At any rate, it is good to have you back, as we were starting to think you had changed your name to Eddie…

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Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-28 01:52:42

Long time no see Joey/Eddie . This is the same person and nobody can convince we otherwise .Its called the essence of a person and the writing styles are to similar .

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-28 12:37:31

I think the vacant foreclosure houses are a health and safety violation . If the banks were maintaining the properties ,that would be one thing ,but to just keep the properties in limbo
while wildlife invades ,or criminal elements invade the place
is again a breach of duty as a lender on a property . If you ever looked at the fine print in a real estate contract you would see that the lender actually has the right to levy the borrower if they don’t maintain the property . The lender can levy the borrower if they don’t keep insurance on the property . In spite of all this ,the lenders think they can so anything they want in the name of their game playing and this all started with the bail-outs . The moral hazard of bail-outs is biting everybody .

 
 
 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-12-27 09:33:12

What’s wrong with a little collusion when systemic risk to our banking system and our standard of living is at stake? Honestly, the big picture seems to be that all is fair in the name of preserving “the system” as it was in all of its artificial and corrupt glory. Collusion? How about Extortion, Fraud, blatant disregard for the Constitution, possibly even Murder to round out the crimes committed in broad daylight by our government all in the name of “saving us”. I am with you Ben, what they are doing with ‘managing’ the sale of foreclosures is wrong and plainly obvious but as far as MSM is concerned I really don’t think anyone cares. They are far more concerned with how the final days of Christmas shopping compared with last year and important stuff like that.

Comment by Go East
2009-12-27 12:13:23

I had the same experience getting nowhere with short sale offers and I finally had to walk away…Now looking in Phoenix looking forward to moving next year, I see the following (re collusion)…I use Movoto and I’ll favorite acondo I like, only to see it listed as “No longer active” just days after I first saved it. Are they withdrawing these, hoping to drive up prices? It is happening with multiple properties, suggesting an organized plan…

 
Comment by rms
2009-12-27 12:59:32

“What’s wrong with a little collusion…”

You have to know that the courts are in on this too. Think of all the lawyers in this country, and nothing is happening? The huge 401k and pension plan rip-offs by Wall street certainly would have stirred more than what we have seen so far. Collusion is the tip of the iceberg, IMHO.

 
 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-12-27 08:58:52

“Ph.D. in education”

I have spent a lot of time with a lot of Ed. Ph.D.s (including many family members) — they are mostly insane, but for sure the “I just followed the rules” types.

The big push in education is to create responsible citizens that have real-world problem-solving skills regardless of the scenario. Paradoxically, many professional educators are the “just tell me what to do” types.

Sucker’s suckers.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-12-27 09:25:11

“Milton Delgado put a down payment on his dream three years ago: a three-bedroom 1,715-square-foot condominium at The Promenade in Middletown…”

That’s Middletown, DELAWARE fer cryin’ out loud. Looking on a map it might as well be Middle-of-Nowhere although I guess it could be considered a suburb of Wilmington. Now THERE’S a drawing card!

Comment by DennisN
2009-12-27 10:21:55

He continues to advertise The Promenade on his company Web site. He confirmed that the land is listed for sale, however.

The developer speaketh with a forked tongue….

How can you advertise for a to-be-built condo complex when you have the land below it up for sale?

Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-12-27 11:22:57

Well, I’m not defending him, but consider how many Craigslist SFH rentals are also concurrently listed on the regional MLS…

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Comment by jfp
2009-12-27 09:38:15

“Delgado recently obtained his Ph.D. in education from Wilmington University. ‘I didn’t just go in blindly and plop down money on a pretty little dollhouse,’ Delgado said. ‘I’m supposed to be educated, among the top of the people around, and I got pulled in just like everyone else.’”

LOL. I’m sure his eight years of proving he can placidly tolerate jumping through hoops at the local university means he knows everything there is to know about life. Hint: you are everyone else.

Comment by In Montana
2009-12-27 09:42:54

I thought they were called Ed.D.

Comment by Muggy
2009-12-27 09:47:12

They are different degrees — Ph.D.s are for academia and Ed.D.s are for K12 practitioners (many superintendents have them, for example). That’s the short answer.

I was encouraged to pursue an Ed.D recently, but politely declined. It’s pure hoops.

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Comment by In Montana
2009-12-27 19:49:05

Good move Muggy.

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-12-27 10:25:33

A horse is a horse, of course of course … unless it’s the famous Mr. Ed. D. ;)

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Comment by aqius
2009-12-27 12:48:51

Comment by DennisN
2009-12-27 10:25:33

A horse is a horse, of course of course … unless it’s the famous Mr. Ed. D.

Dennis; nicely done !

 
Comment by pismoclam
2009-12-27 19:18:57

Alan Young’s wife just passed away.

 
 
 
Comment by reuven
2009-12-27 10:57:03

He didn’t “plop down money on a pretty little dollhouse” (oooh! He must have aced his course on creative writing in that cracker-jack box Ed.D. program!)….he plopped his money down on a glossy brochure picture of a pretty little dollhouse.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-12-27 14:40:08

GREAT translation, Reuven!! :-)

This was the money quote of the whole thread for me.

Nope, you didn’t plop down money on a pretty little dollhouse, but you sure tried to do so! Instead, you plopped down money on the DREAM of a pretty little dollhouse.

:-) :-) :-)

His total lack of awareness of what was coming out of his mouth, and the deep deep denial embodied therein was pure, pure schadenjoy for me. :-)

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Comment by Jerry
2009-12-27 12:08:04

I guess third grade math and “common sense” went out the window and reality took its place. Sad, hard way to learn.

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-12-27 16:33:56

The problem with many Phd types is they forget they are specialists and fall into the trap that they can get a handle on anything. Most of them are very strict about having “Dr.” before their name.

In my past I met a few of them who did not have “Dr.” before their names. They tended to be easy to get along with and were genuinely admired by the workers. Above all, they knew their boundaries and were humble.

Comment by In Montana
2009-12-27 19:52:23

When I was in my short private atty practice, a psychologist (PhD) called me up looking for advice for a patient, and he says “yeah, I’m a shrink…” and I loved him immediately. I even made a few appointments with him myself…he passed away last year, great loss.

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Comment by mikey
2009-12-27 09:47:16

‘I’m supposed to be educated, among the top of the people around, and I got pulled in just like everyone else.’”

Oh yeah…you’re so much smarter than everyone else,(aka) the perfect Mark for high-end Con men.
:)

Comment by Sarah
2009-12-27 10:32:05

Why do people think going to school makes them smarter? You are either intelligent or you are not. Spending time memorizing what others tell you rather than experimenting on your own is actually taking a few steps back in my opinion. Assuming your teachers are the best in their field, it probably is good exposure for a few years when you are young, but at some point you actually have to learn, and you dont do that from books. If you didnt know that housing appreciation in excess of 5% per year is a problem that would correct based on common sense, much less 10% or more, no amount of listening to others babble will make you smarter than average.

Comment by AmazingRuss
2009-12-27 11:22:37

Engineering does. By the time you’ve been dragged through all the math courses, your brain has been doing pushups for 3 years. Computer Engineering also adds a bunch of discrete math (critical thinking).

Education can make you a lot smarter, if you pursue the right degree.

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Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-12-27 11:25:08

Dragged kicking and screaming, I might add. At least for most of us :-)

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-12-27 17:13:30

I agree…engineering/physics/math courses improve critical thinking skills, med school improves memorization skills, and wide ranging liberal arts courses help with written communication, empathy and appreciating proper attribution.

That said…the same education leads to an ivory tower mentality that sets you up for a lifetime of disappointment. How many people would be able to accomplish a lot more in life if it weren’t for the inflexibility of their own expectations and inability to work around bureaucracy and institutional stupidity….leading to sleepless nights then irritability and inattentiveness, making you distrust yourself with any real challenges…added to that is constant low level depression from worrying about friends, loved ones and your own place in this messed up world. It sucks.

 
 
Comment by gonzonista
2009-12-27 13:05:22

Going to school does not make you smarter. However, if you choose well for your major, education does give you the tools to understand a problem. While I don’t know the statistical breakdown of the education of homeowners (more correctly, home owers), I suspect most of those suffering from the housing crash did not have much of a background in math or history. While nothing teaches better than experience, a few hundred dollars for a course that teaches compound interest or a course on recent history is much less expensive than learning about market crashes the hard way.

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Comment by In Montana
2009-12-27 19:57:20

I thought Personal Finance class was worthwhile.

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Comment by Carlos4
2009-12-27 15:13:58

Soft degrees in education, little to no math required, come home to roost! You get what you work for in college. It shows up in reality.

 
 
Comment by reuven
2009-12-27 10:53:24

The reporter probably blew it. He probably has an “Ed.D” which is not a “Ph.D.” “Ed.D” degrees are handed out like candy to people who can sit in night school for 3 years.

 
Comment by reuven
2009-12-27 11:06:01

I just checked the website of the esteemed Wilmington Universty.

They offer no such degree as a “Ph.D. in education”

They do have an “Ed.D.” program:

(Details here)

I’ve dropped a note to the reporter, a Ginger Gibson, asking if that was a direct quote and, if it was, the interviewee was lying and she should check the other facts he stated.

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2009-12-27 09:13:56

“‘Every day I was driving by, saying, ‘I can’t wait to see a hole. I can’t wait to see a hole,’ Delgado said. ‘And I never saw a hole. The only hole was in my wallet.’”

If you don’t know who the ‘hole is, it’s probably the person you are doing business with.

Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2009-12-27 09:27:03

Not exactly. The “hole” is in his head.
Another “educated” idiot, with certificates to show he has followed the steps outlined by the bureaucrats setting up the processes whereby we should all live…………….

 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-12-27 09:29:59

‘I’m supposed to be educated, among the top of the people around, and I got pulled in just like everyone else.’

How apt, the siren song of the decade that comes to a close this week.

Comment by In Montana
2009-12-27 19:59:35

“among the top of the people around”

…and who the hell talks like that?

 
 
 
Comment by Mugsy
2009-12-27 09:16:55

“He’s worried that these kinds of open construction sites and empty buildings could bring blight back to New York. Cestero: ‘We don’t want vacant buildings, buildings that are unable to sell, unable to rent up.”

When I was a kid growing up in Queens in the 60’s and 70’s I thought that abandoned buildings were a normal thing. Hey, Queens never looked as bad as Newark did.

If everybody is so nostalgic for the 70’s why not let it go that way just to teach us a lesson about “credit bubbles”?

Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2009-12-27 09:33:06

This is New York, home of liberal democrats. They will not let it “go”.
They will take the property from the owners under a “blight” imminent domain seizure and spend taxdollars to provide “affordable housing” to the unemployed riff-raff that descends on the city.
All they need is a “community organizer” who can shake-down the banks for zero interest loans and guarantees that the payments will not start until well after the projects are completed and tax dollars are being siphoned into the “public works”.
If NEW YORK can’t figure this out, just send some city rep’s to Chicago.
They will show you how to do it. Or perhaps, they should just call the White House and ask for anyone who works there now.

Comment by SaladSD
2009-12-27 16:21:38

Last I heard it was Pfizer who grabbed property under the “blight” imminent domain seizure. Why do you have to label such a practice “liberal democrats” when it’s obviously equal opportunity for libs & gops alike? Geesh. Why don’t you just throw in a candy colored unicorn, Acorn, Hugo Chavez, lattes and whatever other jingo-istic noun to the mix?

Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2009-12-28 05:07:46

you’re right. maybe i should just call them what they are: fascists.
but i take the liberal democrat viewpoint because although the link with business and government runs through both parties, it’s the liberal morons on the COURTS and in Government that come up with these policies. It took the Supreme Court to allow stealing property for “public benefit” under a 5 to 4 vote, for this and many other nefarious ventures to take root.

From my perspective, it’s always the so-called socially liberal, who i refer to as deranged, who make societal changes, under the color of law, for the benefit of “society” at the expense of individuals. Taking of private property for corporate benefits could not have pursued without the color of law, which to me is clearly unconstitutional.

“Civil Rights” legislation is simply another form of fascism. These laws violate people freedom to Choose and Freedom of Assembly and most “freedoms” under the constitution.
Public “healthcare” is stealing from some citizens to give to others, when it’s over, they won’t even need to be citizens.

I could go on at length, but you get the point. I don’t agree that companies should have the right to rob people any more than the government, but it’s usually the Democrats that provide the means to rob.
Even with the housing bubble, you had a LOT of government intervention in the markets, most particularly with Fannie and Freddie, which have been pork laden barrels for a long time. This has been primarily a dem program, although the Banks benefited greatly.
When Banks win, the dems says it’s the Republicans who dole out money for them, but as you can see, it’s been the Dem’s who agreed to all these emergency spending measures.

Clearly I am partisan. I really dispise and distrust both parties, but with the split votes lately, i’m more in line with the losing side. I hope the Dem’s get slaughtered at the next election. If Mussolini where running, he’d be on the democratic ticket, for sure.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2009-12-27 09:27:32

One point about the New York articles. All that inventory is a drop in the ocean, in a city with two million-plus rental units where even college graduates with jobs find themselves sharing apartments with four people, and can’t even have their own room.

So what’s the problem? Price. Just imagine those supply and demand lines in the Economics 101 chart. Everyone is shooting for the very high price associated with very few people demanding apartments, and expecting to sell or rent to those very few people. At a lower price — still high by national standards — the demand is enormous.

That’s what Guterman & Miller are up against. Even banks have wishing prices, because if the wish doesn’t come true, they go bankrupt.

Comment by Jonathan Miller
2009-12-27 20:27:13

WT Economist -if your econ 101 premise were true, then landlords would not be offering 1-2 months free rent and paying the broker commission and 500 new development projects would not be stalled in NYC right now. Its not that simple. Yes I agree that at the right price, demand rises significantly for rent, but that leaves out the “right cost” and many landlords have certain realities they have to deal with to survive based on assemblage and financing costs. If the price of milk was dropped to 25 cents/gallon, the demand would be enormous too.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-12-27 23:13:38

Johnathan:

Good website……I looked at the “new” luxury Peter Cooper apartments…yup no $300 sears stove there, they just has to buy the $3000 jett aire gourmet one to jack up the rent stabilized price another notch.What was Tischman thinking?

This was always my main complaint about RS, landlords had No incentive to just slap on a coat of paint and raise the rent $50 nope spend $40K on a 6th floor walk up and get $1000 a month more rent forever.

But its finally biting them back…with the free rent and paying brokers fees.

 
 
 
Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2009-12-27 09:43:05

And MORE tax dollars stolen from me to pay for SPECULATORS.

…………..a new government program designed to help service members recoup losses from such home sales.

I don’t give a damn whether they are in the service or not. IF you are in the Armed Forces and subject to relocation, you have no business buying into a long-term investment such as housing, unless you are willing to risk selling in a bad market and losing money.

Once again, the “government” runs to the rescue to save other speculators…………….This won’t get any bad press, however, since it’s another benefit to the Armed Forces.
I’m also AMAZED at the price level of the house were are talking about here……..in excess of $300,000. Underpaid Armed Services worker??
I don’t live so well, and have a stack of professional licenses. At least, i choose not to gamble so easily with money i may not recover………..

Comment by Ken Best
 
 
Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2009-12-27 10:01:41

“The family is still having trouble making regular payments on the home-equity loan. The latest was for $100 in November. ‘It was a huge mess. I ruined my credit,’ Holly Scribner says. ‘We did everything right, we thought, and we ended up in a bad situation.”’

No equity, can’t afford the payments, borrowed every dime they could to increase debt levels…………..ah yes,……everything right.

 
Comment by skroodle
2009-12-27 10:56:18

According to Wikipedia, Madeline Gilford died at her apartment in Greenwich Village.

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-12-27 10:58:07

Lisa Gilford lives in Denver now, but she tried to keep up the home in Bethlehem for a while after her mother died, paying the mortgage for a couple of months, she said, but she just couldn’t afford the extra expense long term. Ms. Gilford said she had hoped that the home would sell quickly in foreclosure, but the couple of people who were interested in proposing a “short sale” to WaMu got nowhere.

This woman is insane.

At the very least, her lawyer should have “waved her off” accepting the house in the will/trust. Why take on an underwater property? With her mother’s death, the kids could have refused the bequest and walked away scot-free.

But ding-dong Lisa took over the house and began making payments “for a couple of months”. Lisa is now holding the bag and will have her credit rating trashed.

Comment by In Montana
2009-12-27 20:02:31

Suppose she didn’t know it was underwater? lol

 
 
Comment by reuven
2009-12-27 12:20:54

Ginger snapped an answer to me! I wrote:


Dear Ms. Gibson:

You state in your 12/27 article “No Home, No Refund, No Hope” that a Milton Deltato has “A Ph.D. in Education from Wilmington University.” According to Wilmington University’s website, they offer an “Ed.D” degree, but no “Ph.D. in Education.” Did Mr. Delgato lie to you? If so, you may want to check the other statements he made.

Thank you.

Reuven Avram

And she replied:


Dear [Reuven:]

No. They are both terminal degrees and one of our copy editors switched the terms to make it more understandable. Mr Delgado was not lying.
———————
Ginger Gibson
Reporter
The News Journal
(302) 468-7639

So….their copy editor changes facts to make things “more understandable” and baffled all of us! And they wonder why newspapers are dying!

Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-12-27 13:38:58

But HBB readers are not typical news consumers. Most legacy media organizations are counting on their readers not thinking enough to ever be baffled.

I think the most appropriate term that describes what they do is “spoon-feeding”. Unfortunately, the intent is often not as benign as it was in the case that you not.

I had a number of jaw-droppingly ignorant and false “facts” about the housing bubble regurgitated to me by friends over the Christmas dinner table. These were from highly educated, progressive-minded people who I know are smart enough to know better. I knew immediately where their “information” came from without even bothering to ask.

 
Comment by adaylate
2009-12-27 18:53:31

Seriously? Get over yourself. Harvard only offers an Edd in education, not a Phd. Be a little more self importatant.

Comment by reuven
2009-12-27 21:56:44

A lot of top schools have money-making degree-mill divisions. You can get a mail-order Harvard or MIT “executive MBA”, for example.

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-12-27 19:10:44

To make it more understandable, just call it a “doctorate in education”. Don’t lie by calling it by a different and specifically wrong title.

I have a Juris Doctorate. Nobody calls me “Doctor N.”.

 
 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-12-27 14:27:14

“…eventually sold it for $299,610 - a loss of $33,290, not including the closing costs and fees, which added up to more than $20,000.

Name me any other retail “investment” category where transaction costs alone nearing %10 on average, are assumed without serious question? There may in fact be some, I can’t imagine what they would be, though.

People routinely go to the trouble of switching investment brokerage accounts to reduce their costs from $12.95 to $9.95 per buy/sell order. But $20,000+ in fees to sell a house, well, that’s just the cost of doing business, and it’s all good because real estate only goes up in price! They’re not making any more land, now are they?

Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-12-27 17:30:40

Why should the government subsidize homebuying when military families clearly have to move every 3-5 years? Why not subsidize renting instead? Or would that just create another bubble in rents?

Also, all HBBers know that real estate agents need to have their MLS trust busted in a big way. No way should 6% transaction costs be standard considering they aren’t held liable for what they do…no risk, all benefit. 1-2% maybe is fair for sellers agents, and a flat fee for buyers agents.

Comment by SDGreg
2009-12-27 23:04:49

“Why not subsidize renting instead? Or would that just create another bubble in rents?”

Don’t they effectively do that already? Military members in the San Diego area get a very generous housing allowance for those not living in base housing, especially at the officer level.

I think the argument could be made during the early part of this decade when the vacancy rate for apartments was much lower, that such subsidies may have pushed up the cost of renting for non-subsidized renters.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-27 15:19:35

“‘We had an economic wild party, and economic wild parties are often followed by economic wild hangovers,’ Hughes said. ‘We’re probably not at the mid-stage of the hangover yet.’”

Nothing here that a little hair-o-the-dog hangover cure can’t fix…

Comment by SDGreg
2009-12-27 23:06:52

The drinks are still being served, so this hangover’s going to go on for awhile. It’s going to be quite a bar tab too. That might be worse than the hangover.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-27 15:30:06

“The family is still having trouble making regular payments on the home-equity loan. The latest was for $100 in November. ‘It was a huge mess. I ruined my credit,’ Holly Scribner says. ‘We did everything right, we thought, and we ended up in a bad situation.”’

When bad loans happen to good people…

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-12-27 15:42:00

“Atlantic City’s economy was ‘hot’ during the late 1990s boom and there was less competition from other casinos, Hughes said. Furthermore, the low credit rates, lax lending standards and American consumer overspending created ‘a period of epic abnormality’ for building projects from 2000 to 2006.”

Hopefully, with sufficient hair-of-the-dog stimulus measures, govt-guaranteed financing and massive expansion of the money supply, we can soon return to the period of epic abnormality.

 
Comment by oliverks
2009-12-27 15:59:12

“the federal government has helped keep mortgage rates down, in the 5 percent range, and Congress extended and expanded tax credits so they reach almost all potential buyers — not just first-timers anymore. Together, this means houses remain more affordable than they were for decades”

I am so tired of seeing quotes like these. When interest rates are low, it is the worst possible time to buy a house. Let me explain why.

Houses are sold on what can you afford to pay each month. So when interest rates go down, you can “afford” to borrow more money. But so can every other Tom, Dick, and Harry. This means that as interest rates drop, house prices go up.

We have been a great bond bull market since 1981. I would argue it is the greatest bull market we have ever seen. This has helped to lift house prices over the last 30 years. Most home buyers have never lived in a market of long term rising interest rates. It seems to be beyond their comprehension that it might happen. So many boomers bought a house and then found 2 years later they could cut their payments by simply refinancing. They rode that bond bull market thinking this is the way it works not understanding that ever dropping interest rates is not normal.

Know one knows when the bull market will end, but I can promise you it will end. And when it does…

When interest rates go up the amount of money people can borrow decreases. This will put downward pressure on house prices. If we have 15 years of rising interest rates, can you imagine what would happen to housing? Peoples monthly mortgage payments won’t drop through refinancing. First time buyers will have much less to spend. A whole generation could be trapped in their first house, cursing and hating that fateful day they bought that dog of a bond uh I mean house.

Of course you might say housing was stable with interest rates moves in the past. That is true, but in the past, people were restricted to borrowing a multiple of their salary. It did not matter what interest rates were, you couldn’t borrow more that 3x your salary for example. With the deregulations of the 1980’s onward, we have transformed housing to look like a long term bond.

When you buy at the bottom of the interest rate cycle you are accepting the interest rate risk. When you buy when interest rates are high, the mortgage lender is accepting the interest rate risk (because you can refinance when rates come down).

Houses have been converted to a sophisticated long term debt instrument, subject to the occasional mania, with a hard to predict payout model. Worse yet, they can have unexpected capital calls, such as when your hot water heater explodes.

So why oh why do people keep believing low interest rates make buying houses more attractive? It is sheer lunacy. Unfortunately it is mantra that seems so drilled into people, there is nothing you can do to convince them of their idiocy.

BTW there are other reasons why buying at high interest rates is more attractive, for example taxation is often more beneficial.

Oliverks

Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2009-12-28 05:17:58

Your position is true over the short term. Rising rates will force prices down. But i don’t think you can carry that out to 15 years.
Remember, the FED prints money and devalues it.
This is the game the money changers have been playing with the American public since 1913 when this Central Bank was started.
The current value of the dollar in 1913 currency is 0.05 and falling.

The dollar has lost 95% of its value.

This is the game Bernanke hopes to play. He is trying to force asset prices up by devaluing the currency. He NEEDS to be able to do this in order to UNLOAD all the bad loans the FED has taken from the Banksters. He can’t dump them on the market because they are grossly overvalued. However, by inflating the currency, the dollar will drop and relative prices will rise. Then the price gets high enough, he can sell at a “profit”. It’s all smoke and mirrors, and we, the public, will lose in the end.

In the short-run, this is very dangerous and the economy is continuing to deflate. I’m with Ron Paul……..END THE FED, now.
But, until we do, the money printing will continue and the ponzi scheme goes on, with the American Taxpayer and the holder of dollars, the losers………..you and me, baby.

 
 
Comment by oliverks
2009-12-27 16:14:21

“the federal government has helped keep mortgage rates down, in the 5 percent range, and Congress extended and expanded tax credits so they reach almost all potential buyers — not just first-timers anymore. Together, this means houses remain more affordable than they were for decades”

I am so tired of seeing quotes like these. It is just BS. When interest rates are low, it is the worst possible time to buy a house. Let me explain why.

Houses are sold on what can you afford to pay each month. So when interest rates go down, you can “afford” to borrow more money. But so can every other Tom, Dick, and Harry. This means that as interest rates drop, house prices go up.

Of course we have been a great secular bond bull market since 1981. I would argue it is the greatest bull market we have ever seen. This has helped to lift house prices over the last 30 years. Most home buyers have never lived in a market of long term rising interest rates. It seems to be beyond their comprehension that it might happen. So many boomers bought a house and then found 2 years later they could cut their payments by simply refinancing. They rode that bond bull market thinking this is the way it works.

Know one knows when the bull market will end, but I can promise you it will end. And when it does…

When interest rates go up the amount of money people can borrow decreases. This will put downward pressure on house prices. If we have 15 years of rising interest rates, can you imagine what would happen to housing? Peoples monthly mortgage payments won’t drop through refinancing. First time buyers will have much less to spend. A whole generation could be trapped in their first house, cursing and hating that fateful day they bought that dog of a bond uh I mean house.

Of course you might say housing was stable with interest rates moves in the past. That is true, but in the past, people were restricted to borrowing a multiple of their salary. It did not matter what interest rates were, you couldn’t borrow more that 3x your salary for example. With the deregulations of the 1980’s onward, we have transformed housing to look like a long term bond.

When you buy at the bottom of the interest rate cycle you are accepting the interest rate risk. When you buy when interest rates are high, the mortgage lender is accepting the interest rate risk (because you can refinance when rates come down).

Houses have been converted to a sophisticated long term debt instrument, subject to the occasional mania, with a hard to predict payout model. Worse yet, they can have unexpected capital calls, such as when your hot water heater explodes.

So why oh why do people keep believing low interest rates make buying houses more attractive? It is sheer lunacy. Unfortunately it is mantra that seems so drilled into people, there is nothing you can do to convince them of their idiocy.

BTW there are other reasons why buying at high interest rates is more attractive, for example taxation is often more beneficial.

Oliverks

Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-12-27 17:49:20

Good point, not a good time to buy, but a good time to refi…assuming you aren’t underwater.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-28 01:40:09

Yes ,in theory I would rather get a lower price for a house and pay higher interest rate . But,with most people it boils down to what is the monthly payment . It use to be that people liked to pay off their houses to be free of that monthly nut to crack ,especially for retirement ,but them it just became a leverage game .

It’s funny how the nature of Wall Street rubbed off on the American
Psych . Wall Street is a big time short term leverage player and somehow that seeped into the mentality of the sheep when Wall Street became the mover and shaker regarding lending . I don’t think it’s any accident that the REIC had the same talking points and walked around like drones all the time .

 
 
 
Comment by Paul Mayson
2009-12-27 18:53:11

The problem is for us who believe in fair play. It doesn’t seem right for all these games to go on. To us it is cheating. To me it is being willing to sacrifice the country for your own gain and when this is done by millions it feels like the country I once believed in and love no longer exist.

We call it capitalism. It is supposed to work according to supply and demand. When elements are introduced which cause the supply and demand equation not to work, after so many were given the right to live high on home equity loans and then have that debt all but forgiven, while we chose to do the right thing and be responsible citizens…then it feels almost evil to see the market makers collude to maintain prices. I see this also. There was a foreclosure I bid on. Supposedly someone else outbid me but the sell price was never recorded and all I can assume is that it did not take place because to do so would collapse nearby home prices. How they are able to just hide an official sale, I don’t know. It has to be complete collusion.

The problem with this country is that so many who come here these days see it as a way to get rich. They will do whatever they can get away with in order to get rich. And the rest of us are all smart enough to see this to the point that we say…’hey, I’m not going to be left out while everyone else abuses the system and gets rich’. And then there are people like myself who see this but still manage to believe and just would go to my death before I abused my country. I’m destined to be a poor man for I cannot compete on an uneven playing field.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-12-27 19:13:10

Great post. This country’s founding fathers immigrated here to escape from the corruption and church sponsored oppression of European governments. European corporations mainly just raped 3rd world countries back then.

The founding fathers would be horrified to see that this country is developing all the same problems, except instead of just the church we also have corporations taking honest hardworking people for everything they’re worth in our own country…since there are no other innocents left to rape.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-12-28 06:24:46

I identified with your post, Paul.

This is the part of the “new normal” I experienced the toughest struggles with. Being someone that studied behavior in a crowd, I did have cynicism going into this. But I also ultimately believed that truth and the law prevailed. I believed that most people were generally good and you just had to watch out for the few bad apples.

Now I believe our legal and social fabric is coming apart at the seams and a sense of every man for himself prevails. It’s difficult to play as my instincts tend toward rules and being a good citizen. My instincts toward being a good member of a crowd include doing no harm not providing cover for the secrets of their harm.

I’m raising my children like my parents did but sometimes when it’s quiet and I think about it I wonder why I’m trying to quell the manipulative nature of one of them. Lately it seems to me those are the new survival skills. A good manipulator would do well for themselves. Ugh. God help me. This world is not one I’ve been prepared for. Nor is it one I particularly care to partake in.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-28 10:19:18

Carrie Ann … You bring up a great point .It must be difficult bringing up children these days when you have to fear that they might not get
the survival skills if you teach them to be a fair players rather than a person who is able to deal with a dog eat dog type of society .

You can’t get away from the Society that you live in . I’m hoping that this recession brings on a new set of values rather than more of the same .It’s a bad testimony if being a good member of Society gets you mowed down . Somehow the “ID ‘ gained power and is ruling .

My nephew just warned me that I gotta watch my back because a
lot of people are hurting and wouldn’t think twice about taking what
they want . In that hes out there trying to raise two kids I’m sure he is aware of the mentality out there .

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-12-28 06:47:08

” And then there are people like myself who see this but still manage to believe and just would go to my death before I abused my country. I’m destined to be a poor man for I cannot compete on an uneven playing field.”

Paul Mayson
IMHO you are already a rich man. My father taught me that my word, signature or handshake on a deal was what I stood for. I have lived my life for 50 years doing what he taught me. Now, i am not rich, but I am not poor either. I have held up my end of any deal that I have entered into wich included a house purchase that I was upside down on by 30% in the early eighties. I have finished jobs that I lost money on and paid my bills and taxes. I know there are those who post here who say it is stupid to stay in a house or a deal that someone is hopelessly upside down on, but I fought through the same situation 26 years ago and made a killing in the end. I like football analogies, life is a a 60 minute game and a lot of games are won in the last two minutes ( dam Colts only played 34 minutes yesterday ) I still believe that personal responsibility will win in the end. Live within your means, and play all 60 minutes.

Colts make one of greatest comebacks against Bucs D
Oct. 7, 2003
SportsLine.com wire reports

TAMPA, Fla. — Peyton Manning refused to give up

With Indianapolis down three touchdowns against the NFL’s stingiest defense with four minutes left in regulation, the Colts quarterback pulled off one of the greatest comebacks in league history Monday night.

“I never lost confidence. But I’m not going to lie, it didn’t look good,” Manning said after Mike Vanderjagt’s 29-yard field goal with 3:47 left in the extra period gave the Colts a 38-35 victory over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

“It’s the old cliche — 60 minutes,” Manning said. “Sometimes it’s hard to keep believing that.”

 
Comment by rusty
2009-12-28 07:36:48

Paul thanks for putting into words what so many of us feel out there!

Was at an estate sale the other day, and the prices were very fair. But there was this one jerk who just felt entitled to have everything they wanted basically given to them. They presented themselves to the cash person and just haggled beyond belief, and threatened to walk away if everything they had chosen wasn’t reduced 75% off the marked price.

So, 4 dollar items (over 50 dollars new) were sold for s buck a piece, with other stuff just ‘thown’ in for free as well. It was truly disgusting to see this person in action. I guess the fact that the cashier’s grandmother was the one to pass away and leave the items for sale didn’t matter much to the buyer. Just gimme gimme gimme (or I throw it down and walk). Dayum.

Really made me stop and think about my fellow citizens and how we have changed over the past 40 years. I haggle at garage sales, but never to that degree, and never with a threat. I don’t like your price, I don’t buy, no stress, no fuss. Maybe I am the sucker these days, but I hold my head high that I don’t screw my neighbors. That has to count for something or we are all lost.

 
 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-12-28 01:25:48

Paul Mayson …. Ditto Great Post . Boy do I feel the way you do . Carrie
posted a interesting documentary called ‘THE CENTURY OF SELF “. It’s free
on the web if you goggle it . It’s a 4 part long documentary about the ongoing brainwashing of the American psych by Corporations to get them to buy . In recent years the Advertising industry promoted the selfish self type
of advertising campaigns to keep that consumption going …you know ,
you deserve this or that . It’s not hard to understand how people felt entitled to spend like drunk sailors with credit cards . Is it any wonder that the values of Society have fallen to a all time low .

In spite of America valuing the concept of ‘Individual Freedoms ” ,it
sorta morphed into the right to consumption …the Entitlement Culture without responsibility or regard for your fellow man ,
or other good values . It’s like anything ,if the balance scales get pushed to much one way ,than all hell breaks loose.

Even the concept of selling a POS piece of real estate to a greater fool is a form of self-centered larceny . Nobody stopped to think about how
higher prices would make it impossible for people to buy other need items . It’s just like the health care industry that is breaking the backs of people with these high prices for medical care ,considering the average wages . The days of fair play are gone with Corporations and individuals and it all seem to be the concept of short term gain . To many rackets and not enough value or balance anymore .

I

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-12-28 06:25:25

Paul, HW:

Here ya go, this is what the kids are listening to today…it fits right in with this article:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-Ztb43Qu6Q

—————————————-
brainwashing of the American psych by Corporations to get them to buy

 
 
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