January 2, 2010

Bits Bucket For January 2, 2010

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236 Comments »

Comment by alpha-sloth
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 06:57:04

That is a rather odd looking portrait of Bernanke.

 
Comment by combotechie
2010-01-02 07:01:51

The article that goes with this picture is worth a read.

Comment by Rancher
2010-01-02 07:32:11

Combo,
Maybe it’s go early, maybe it’s just because
I just got my cup of coffee, but I can’t imagine
that there are that many dumb people working in
European financial circles.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 07:43:53

Rancher, if I recall correctly, you are Norwegian, right? You may have already seen this Subprime Primer, but in case you have not, please pay close attention to the Norwegian village humor included therein. (I already shared this with a few Norwegian friends, who found it quite hysterical…)

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Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-02 16:24:19

Rancher, we had a poster who was from Holland (IIRC) and his reports of the European financiers were absolutely scary.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2010-01-02 09:16:29

What a fascinating story.

And yes Rancher, there are dumb people that work in European financial circles. Look at what happened to Iceland, Spain, Greece, England, etc… Stupidity does not just belong to the U.S.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2010-01-02 09:21:10

Stupidity does not just belong to the U.S.

Sometimes we forget that — the rest of the world is well-populated with cretins, too.

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Comment by DennisN
2010-01-02 10:38:03

What do people on Crete call stupid people?

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-02 11:31:56

Turkeys?

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-01-03 04:42:27

Good one, alpha. :)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2010-01-02 06:10:05

Sorry if already posted

Joe Weisenthal | Dec. 22, 2009, 6:49 AM

A new report from FirstAmerican Core Logic (via Jonathan Miller) offers an update on shadow housing inventory.

Here are the key stats:

As of September 2009, First American CoreLogic estimated there was a 1.7‐million‐unit pending supply of residential housing inventory, up from 1.1 million a year earlier. Pending supply, sometimes referred to as “shadow” inventory, estimates real estate owned (REO) by banks and mortgage companies, as a result of foreclosures and other actions, such as deeds in lieu, as well as real estate that is at least 90 days delinquent. Normally shadow inventory would not be included in the official measures of unsold inventory. At the current sales rate, the pending supply is 3.3 months, up from 2.4 months a year ago. The months’ supply measures how quickly the inventory will run off given the current sales rate.

• The visible supply of unsold inventory was 3.8 million units in September 2009, down from 4.7 million a year earlier. The visible inventory measures the unsold inventory of new and existing homes that are currently on the market. The visible months’ supply fell to 7.8 months in September 2009, down from 10.1 months a year earlier.

• The total unsold inventory (which combines the visible and pending supply) was 5.5 million units in September 2009, down from 5.7 million a year ago. The total months’ supply was 11.1 months, down from 12.7 a year earlier. This indicates that while the visible months’ supply has decreased and is beginning to approach more normal levels, adding in the pending supply reveals there is still quite a bit of inventory that will impact the housing market for the next few years, especially in the context of the current increase in home sales, which is in part due to artificially low interest rates and the homebuyer tax credit.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 07:01:28

Thanks for posting that very clear and forthright summary. I have no independent data source against which to check those numbers, but the information source and the way the data are presented make them seem plausible.

Comment by gal
2010-01-02 11:49:03

Since $400 billion cap removed, Fannie and Freddie could extend their holding of toxic assets and will sell them to our grand grand kids, when $$$ will cost .08 euro…It is a wishful thinking that “recovery” will come any time soon… Japanese lost decade is here to repeat or “Sunset of civilization” is on it’s way …

Following is another look on coming year…
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/02/business/economy/02modify.html?ref=business

 
 
 
Comment by knifecatcher
2010-01-02 06:15:34

Double Dip coming?
With trillions of dollars of price supports and Carta Blanca given to Fannie Mae, why are prices just stable? This is a classic Head and Shoulders move, and we are about to fall off of the shoulder.

How long will it be before a T-Bill Auction fails and 30-year paper goes over 6%? My guess is somewhere around the election. Yield curves cannot look like Mt. Everest forever.

Hope that the holidays were great out west - East Coast is getting a reminder that it is January this morning. Wish I had some skis on my feet.

Chinese companies are starting to come in and buy and fix them for housing- the value of being able to legally immigrate is greater than the value of the buildings. We should study the Chinese carefully - they want to buy here as an escape hatch. Funny, where would Americans buy if things got wierd here?

Comment by wmbz
2010-01-02 06:35:16

“Double Dip coming”?

Absolutely, positively, round one was the warm up.

Now if Barry & Ben send each of us a check for $50,000.00 that may heat things up a bit. Stimuli 3&4 are heading our way I would guess.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 07:02:28

“Carta Blanca”

Nice coinage!!!

Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-02 07:09:42

Too good of a beer for Fannie. They deserve natty light.

Comment by Muggy
2010-01-02 09:37:53

“They deserve natty light.”

Warm, and shotgunned.

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Comment by ET-Chicago
2010-01-02 10:01:39

Hamm’s Light!

(I think it’s still around.)

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Comment by oxide
2010-01-02 07:20:22

I had a friend who participated in ROTC in high school, who told me: “Well duh, we have to maintain our military, with lots of people. We got the Chinese right up our a$$es just one ocean away, and they got their eyes on all our nice empty land. The Chinese don’t need sophisticated weapons. There are just so many of them that you could give each of them a steak knife and they could beat us.”
His words.

This is what the Army was teaching high school kids in 1995. I don’t think the Chinese are going to sneak their population over here, at least not the stupid population.

—–

Where could Americans buy? Central America got wind of us, oops. My guess is the depopulating countries of Europe, like Italy or depressed Spain.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 07:45:39

Global warming + Greenland = abundant future real estate investing opportunities

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-01-02 11:58:30

http://www.indiebound.org/book/9780971680722

The Chinese have already laid out their plan to destroy America, and it doesn’t involve steak knives.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 15:18:33

Does it involve low-interest lending?

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Comment by mikey
2010-01-02 07:28:46

I noticed a new use for an old term in an article concerning upside down housing values.

“House Arrest”

Can’t sell it, re-fi it, rent it out or make the payments…Welcome to House Arrest American style.

Of course, the HomeDebtors and Cons could make a just make a prison break and WALK away from their Home Equity Castle Confinement Facility, as the guards are probably on the take too.
:)

 
Comment by cougar91
2010-01-02 08:59:17

Double dip is my siren call for 2010.

When I go to the hood ice cream parlor and they ask me if I wanted any toppings, I will say “double dip”.

When I go to the hood garage and they check my car’s fluid levels via dipsticks, I will say “double dip”.

When I go to the hood barber shop and he tries to trim my sides and asks me how I wanted it, I will say “double dip”.

When my girlfriend and I decide to get “busy” one night I will say… oh nevermind.

Comment by rms
2010-01-02 11:33:27

Go for the hat trick, son!

 
 
Comment by rentor
2010-01-02 12:36:11

Is there a graph to show the H & S pattern?

Comment by oxide
2010-01-02 15:28:29

Try this one. An HBB-er posted it a couple weeks ago. The parallels to the dot-com are dicey, but the graph does work for housing. We’re at the end of Phase 2:

www DOT oftwominds.com/blogaug06/post-bubble-symmetry.html

 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2010-01-02 12:40:08

“This is a classic Head and Shoulders move, and we are about to fall off of the shoulder.”

Fall off the shoulder? Heck, we’re about to fall off the elbow!

If you want to see a classic head-and-shoulders, pull up the price-per-square-foot history on RadarLogic dot com. For Seattle, at least, it is a very classic chart (not that I’m really a believer in technical-analysis).

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-01-02 13:14:30

Red-Staters: Idaho, Wyoming, Montana

Blue Staters: Washington, Oregon, Maine, Vermont?…..maybe New Zealand?

 
Comment by Ken Best
2010-01-02 15:33:10

The auctions will not fail. Bernanke just print the money to buy them.

http://www.sprott.com/Docs/MarketsataGlance/12_2009_MAAG.pdf

 
 
Comment by combotechie
2010-01-02 06:17:59

Thursday’s WSJ reviewed the book “Priceless”, by William Poundstone, a book dealing with behavior economics - basically a field of study that questions why we buy what we buy and pay what we pay and demonstrates “people are far less rational than they often believe”.

An excerpt: “In one experiment, a group of licensed real estate agent were shown a house and told it had been listed for $119,900. When asked to estimate a reasonable purchase price, their average was $111,454. When a different group of agents was told that the listing price for exactly the same house was $149,000, their average estimate was $127,318. The agents had subconsciously used the listing price as a reference point for their appraisals - even though they knew it was irrevelant.”

Comment by combotechie
2010-01-02 06:26:15

Linky:
http//online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704152804574628390662807658.html

Comment by Dale
2010-01-02 07:16:33

You should recheck this link. It takes me to a bunch of other sponsored links and not the WSJ.

Comment by combotechie
2010-01-02 07:33:10

Okay, then google-up “hard to count the cost priceless”; that should get you there.

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Comment by Dale
2010-01-02 07:39:51

Got it. You forgot the colon after http and I just cut and pasted.

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Comment by Trapper
2010-01-02 06:46:32

Combotechie,
What you are describing is known in the trade as “high anchoring”.
You should read a book by Max Bazerman, “Smart Money Decisions”.
I think the fella is a genius.

Comment by DD
2010-01-03 00:38:29

Max? don’t trust guys named ‘Max’ anymore.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 07:05:42

“In one experiment, a group of licensed real estate agent were shown a house and told it had been listed for $119,900. When asked to estimate a reasonable purchase price, their average was $111,454. When a different group of agents was told that the listing price for exactly the same house was $149,000, their average estimate was $127,318. The agents had subconsciously used the listing price as a reference point for their appraisals - even though they knew it was irrevelant.”

The suggestion that list price is irrelevant is totally bogus. If you don’t believe me, then compare current list prices for some homes in Detroit to the current list prices for homes with comparable paper specs (sq ft of floor space, number of bedrooms and bathrooms, etc) in La Jolla.

I generally find the spam coming out of the mouths of at least some of these behavioral economists increasingly suspect.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 07:10:18

P.S. I suppose the point is that because the same house was shown to the two groups of agents, the ‘reasonable purchase price’ should be the same? But again I differ, as the list price reveals information about the seller’s reservation price. If identical houses were listed by one owner at $200,000 and the other owner at $500,000, which one do you think would have a lower ‘reasonable purchase price’? I am pretty sure the owner listing at $200,000 would sell at a purchase price of $300,000 while the owner listing at $500,000 would not, even though this example is made up!

Comment by combotechie
2010-01-02 07:25:03

For many people: Price = Value.

This equation won’t hold true for items that have a strong history, a strong connection of price and value (i.e. a loaf of bread) but it does hold true for items where value is difficult to determine. House prices is one area where value is difficult to determine because there are so many variables. Hence a shortcut used by many to determining the value of a house is its price.

BTW, the same shortcut is used by many to determine the value of gold.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 07:50:06

Terminology admittedly is problematic. For instance, ‘price’ in the real estate context could mean either list price (aka ‘wishing price’) or sale price. And sale price might reflect many other factors besides the current market value of the home, including the amount the seller still owes on their loan, the amount the borrower was able to borrow, the amount of subsidy the government kicked in to sweeten the deal, and the relative bargaining skills of the buyer and seller. Finally, there remains the question of what, exactly, is market value?

 
Comment by combotechie
2010-01-02 07:59:55

When Price = Value is carried to the extreme we end up with $700,000 McMansions in Fresno.

 
Comment by Muggy
2010-01-02 09:50:58

“people are far less rational than they often believe”.

The trick is to recognize when you’re being irrational, and include that information in your decision. For example, my recent automobile purchase was irrational but was a concession for my wife (we needed a safer vehicle for the kiddos, but we didn’t need to buy new); since buying a house right now would burn way more cash, my choice to buy a car included the recognition that it was not entirely financially prudent, but a necessary step in my overall bubblesit.

Dining out is the same thing. Dining out never makes sense, but it’s concessions for not wanting to cook, clean or whatever.

Don’t even get me started about musical chit. I’ve lost thousands over the years on that stuff. I’m like crackhead with an old TV at the pawn shop.

 
Comment by exeter
2010-01-02 09:53:31

Mugzter…. please don’t tell me you bought a Vulva….

 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2010-01-02 10:06:19

All good points, Mugs.

To me, the thing is to try to be most rational and cautious in the big decisions, so that you can manage to keep a nice little stash set aside, for spending (irrationally) on some of life’s simpler pleasures, on a regular basis.

People who live this way are much happier overall IMO, regardless of their overall economic status, or their political, religious, or cultural bent. Most of those swept up onto the treadmill can’t relate. (Like a particular commenter here of late, who will go unnamed.)

 
Comment by Muggy
2010-01-02 10:16:37

“Mugzter…. please don’t tell me you bought a Vulva….”

There’s a good marriage joke here…

 
 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-02 07:30:19

I can’t get the link to work, but I’d guess the houses’ neighborhoods were included in the info upon which the ‘appraisals’ were made.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-02 06:22:51

Huffington Post leans strongly to the political left, but they’ve come up with a delightful little YouTube clip that suggests you get your money out of the mega banks (those bailed out biggies that are costing taxpayers an arm and a leg) and put your money into good local banks.

As economist Gary North points out, ” This video is biased, mean-spirited, and simplistic; I love it! The more of these low-budget YouTube videos on the Big Bank bailout, the better.”

This clip is only four minutes and eleven seconds long, and uses “It’s a Wonderful Life” as a running theme. The main point: Support George Bailey and his local bank, which caters to the needs of the local folks, and stop enriching the mega-banker, Mr. Potter.

“The bankers are on the defensive. Let’s keep them there.” says North.

“Stick It to the Big Banks”

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 07:20:54

‘“The bankers are on the defensive. Let’s keep them there.” says North.’

Better yet, let’s determine which bankers broke the law and keep them in prison.

 
Comment by In Montana
2010-01-02 09:07:22

sheeyit, local banks drank the koolaid too

Comment by ACH
2010-01-02 10:41:49

“sheeyit, local banks drank the koolaid too”

Yes they did! I’m told that my bank - Iberia Bank - did not. This is apparently true enough. Iberia has had no serious problems! I’m all for good management. Well done, Iberia Bank!

Still, CRE has me worried. I have no knowledge of Iberia’s exposure to CRE problems if any. It certainly appears that Iberia has put forth as much due diligence and prudence in CRE as they did in MBS, but with the current accounting rules…

If anyone knows, please post.

Roidy

 
 
Comment by scdave
2010-01-02 11:01:57

Interesting that you post this now wmbz….

It’s on my New Years “to do” list…I am moving to local credit unions with mine and any family members that I can convince…The problem with the small community bank philosophy (the way I see it) is that they are greedy ba$terrds just like all the others…They just wear a cloak of “I am your neighbor” so bank with me…As soon as the deposits get to the point where they are a attractive suitor, they will sell out in a heart beat with the executives and the board of directors making out like the criminals they are..

IMO, don’t get sucked in by the I am your neighborhood banker no matter how much they give to the local little league….

Comment by polly
2010-01-02 11:33:19

I think the idea behind the video is more about punishing the TBTF banks than rewarding the local ones,m though that may happen as a result. As long as you stay under FDIC limits you should be fine in any bank.

I like the idea of not doing business with a bank that took bailout money to save its butt and then paid it back by screwing over shareholders, not because it was the right thing to do for the company, but because it guaranteed higher salaries for the top executives.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-01-02 12:05:28

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/02/business/economy/02modify.html?hp=&pagewanted=all

Huffington Post is rabidly leftist, but they’re becoming progressively (pun intended) more disillusioned with The One and his “solutions” which only seem to benefit Wall Street. Now even the New York Times - which seems incapable of writing anything about Obama except in the most fawning adoration - is noticing that his mortgage bailouts have done more harm than good.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-02 16:35:28

There are many bank rating websites. Check your local banks before moving your money.

I personally recommend credit unions. But be sure you check them as well.

Comment by DD
2010-01-03 00:42:48

What about USAA for deposits/banking etc.?

 
 
Comment by Leighsong
2010-01-03 02:56:03

Beware of all banks - George is not looking out for you.

Best,
Leigh

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-02 06:24:08

The U.S. public debt on December 30th was $12,144,893,016,570.46

This a phony number as it represents only the debt it owes nations and individuals who have loaned it money. It does NOT include the money Congress has borrowed from the Social Security and other government trust funds. Add that sum to the debt and the total is more than $19 trillion!!
< It’s difficult for to get our minds around piles of debt like this. To put it in perspective: Recall that one million dollars is $1,000.00 times 1,000. You know how hard it is to save a thousand dollars? Do it a thousand times and you’re a millionaire!

A billion dollars is $1,000,000.00 times 1,000. A trillion is $1,000,000,000.00 times 1,000. But we’re in hock for NINETEEN TRILLION!

Any idea how we can pay it off?

Comment by wmbz
2010-01-02 06:31:41

“DEBT: An ingenious substitute for the chain and whip of the slave driver.”

~Ambrose Bierce

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 07:12:19

That’s why I choose to live largely debt free — I don’t much care to be on the receiving end of whips and chains.

Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2010-01-02 21:12:22

Maybe you just haven’t had the right provider? :D

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Comment by Dave of the North
2010-01-02 06:39:08

“Any idea how we can pay it off?”

Two possible answers:

a) - it doesn’t get paid off, i.e. default at some time in the future

b) - major inflation - when cars cost $ 300,000 and “starter” houses cost $ 2,000,000 the debt won’t seem so bad. Of course if salaries don’t keep up, this plan won’t work…

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-01-02 06:49:35

They won’t.

 
Comment by combotechie
2010-01-02 06:56:15

“a) - it doesn’t get paid off, i.e. default at sometime in the future.”

In the case of Social Security obligations means testing will probably be part of the solution, also taxes, also delayed retirements.

Means testing will lessen the amount you receive and then taxes will yank some of it back.

That’s it; No dinner, no dancing, no foreplay whatsoever.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-01-02 07:10:22

While it may take a while, one should imagine that a fair number of people will figure this out. It will be interesting to watch their reactions.

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Comment by polly
2010-01-02 09:19:56

Delayed retirements cause major havoc on employment oportunities down the entire chain of seniority. Never mind outsourcing issues.

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Comment by scdave
2010-01-02 11:06:50

In the case of Social Security obligations means testing will probably be part of the solution ??

No probably about it…Done deal as far as my planning is concerned…

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Comment by mikey
2010-01-02 07:38:25

Dunno..another cigarette tax or perhaps a national Kool-Aid or Valium tax ?

Comment by scdave
2010-01-02 11:11:25

another cigarette tax ??

Or sin tax in general….Path of least resistance…

 
 
Comment by Left LA
2010-01-02 08:57:58

I think we are worse off than you calculate:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Comment by Leighsong
2010-01-03 03:00:07

Yeeshushu–

Someone take the fork out of my eye!

Leigh ;)

 
 
Comment by Danger
2010-01-02 10:05:19

Deficits don’t matter. Have we already forgotten?

 
Comment by mrktMaven
2010-01-02 10:21:22

As soon as Bernanke gets confirmed, he’ll pay it off.

 
Comment by ACH
2010-01-02 15:56:53

” A billion dollars is $1,000,000.00 times 1,000. A trillion is $1,000,000,000.00 times 1,000. But we’re in hock for NINETEEN TRILLION!

Any idea how we can pay it off?”

Wellll…
We could have a bake sale by state. I’m from Louisiana, so I would bring New Orleans style bread pudding. Yummers.

California could bring “natural” brownies. You’d have to have a doctor’s note to eat one. Also, I wouldn’t drive afterwards. You could eat some of my bread pudding to cure the muchies brought on by the brownies.

Roidy

 
 
Comment by matthew
2010-01-02 06:26:50

One of my New Years resolutions will be to ignore anyone who calls the popping of the housing mania/bubble “a crisis”… each time I hear a TV pundit describe the “housing crisis” and it’s devasting affect on the middle class, I nearly barf…

As has been said many times on the HBB, the actual housing crisis started w/the decoupling of wages (underwriting) from housing prices… the relationship between these two key economic statistics or variables, adjusted for inflation, remains the only fricken economic thing that Congress or the Fed need to wrap their little heads around and fix.. either you increase wages (jobs / wages) or decrease housing prices or deal with the consequences of not… just as say, a recession…. period..

Comment by exeter
2010-01-02 09:52:06

Yep. The public relations buzzwords more appropriately characterized as propaganda drives me nuts too. Crisis rather than correction, home versus house, snapping up as opposed to speculating.

There are many others. Likely enough to exceed the bits bucket one day record of 500+.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 11:36:04

home versus house

Neither; rather “investment,” whose “returns” are “good” when real estate prices are inflating.

 
 
Comment by CA renter
2010-01-03 04:56:52

As has been said many times on the HBB, the actual housing crisis started w/the decoupling of wages (underwriting) from housing prices… the relationship between these two key economic statistics or variables, adjusted for inflation, remains the only fricken economic thing that Congress or the Fed need to wrap their little heads around and fix.. either you increase wages (jobs / wages) or decrease housing prices or deal with the consequences of not… just as say, a recession…. period..
———————

Exactly right, Matthew.

 
 
Comment by Mike in Miami
2010-01-02 06:39:47

Happy New Year everybody.
Here’re some things I’ve been pondering for 2010
1. Barney Frank set aside a cool $4 trillion for the next bailout (you can google it yourself, links don’t tend to post well)
2. FANNIE & FREDDIE get an unlimited taxpayer guarantee
3. Will get the bribes for (1st time) buyers get renewed or even enhanced?
4. Will the FED continue to buy all kinds of junk to keep interest low
5. Will the printing press and heavy borrowing overcome market forces. For how long? What will be the consequences?
6. Will the 2010 election remove both houses from Democrat control and turn off the money spigot? Let’s not forget, the people that initially turned on the money spigot were the Republicans & Paulson.
7. Who will keep buying US treasuries to finance trillion $$ deficits? China, suckers, printing press…?

There’re many variables at play. It is very difficult to make accurate predictions this year. Too many lobbyists. Too much market manipulation at all levels. There are gigantic fundamental problems in our economy and a happy ending to this mess is somewhat unlikely. What’s your take on this?

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 08:56:53

“What’s your take on this?”

I like your take.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-01-02 13:26:39

1 & 2- Seems that someone doesn’t believe we are out of the woods yet. By preemptively passing Bank Bailout Package #2, they won’t have to deal with all those pain-in-the-ass votors/taxpayers clogging up their switchboards with time-wasting protests.

3- We all know the answer to that one.. Look for the amount to be indexed to the price of the house

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-01-02 06:44:59

Here’s a little blurb emailed today to me from our local Crib Chatter site that is well worth remembering for future use:

“The government’s $8,000 tax credit for first-time buyers last fall created a momentum that helped significantly to get people with limited funds into houses,” said David Smith, vice president of sales and marketing for Cambridge Homes, Libertyville.

Years from now, when a houseowning friend or a family member complains about their bills, their taxes, their job, their everything - point them to quotes like this one.

Newsflash America - they’re looking for pigeons!

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 07:17:17

“The government’s $8,000 tax credit for first-time buyers last fall created a momentum that helped significantly to get people with limited funds into houses,”

Can someone please explain to me why our government continues working mightily behind the scenes to turn ‘people with limited funds’ into home owners, using what amount to subprime loans (low income, low downpayment, low interest, high principle)? You would think they would have learned their lesson vicariously through watching the collapse of the private subprime lending sector, but apparently that is not the case.

Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other.

– Benjamin Franklin –

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-01-02 07:23:52

I’m still trying to figure out who really gets the $8,000 - the buyer or the seller*?

* or seller’s bank

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 07:51:53

As you suggest, the taxpayers’ loss is split between the buyer, the seller and the banker in a way which is difficult to quantify.

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Comment by josemanolo
2010-01-03 02:15:03

the realtor

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Comment by combotechie
2010-01-02 07:46:15

“Can someone explain to me why our government continues working mightily behind the scenes to turn ‘people with limited funds’ into home owners…”

The government is doing EVERYTHING it can to prop up RE prices because RE makes up a huge chunk of COLLATERAL that financial entities have used to back up their loans. These financial entities MUST BE SAVED or the global economy will freeze up.

This is the reasoning, as I understand it. You may not agree with this reasoning, but … there it is.

Comment by Rancher
2010-01-02 07:51:39

Combo,
Your thoughts are as true as 1 + 1 = 2.

Think Occrums razor.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2010-01-02 12:59:03

And here I was thinking that stupidity was the simplest explanation! :-)

(BTW, it is actually “Occam’s Razor”.)

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 07:54:43

“The government is doing EVERYTHING it can to prop up RE prices because RE makes up a huge chunk of COLLATERAL that financial entities have used to back up their loans. These financial entities MUST BE SAVED or the global economy will freeze up.”

Here I had been thinking all along that the reason the global economy froze up was due to the Fed’s super-duper low rates making the collateral’s value rise too quickly, leading to a parabolic bubble price increase followed by an epic crash! I guess I was just confused.

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Comment by combotechie
2010-01-02 08:08:05

The reason the global economy froze up is because the U.S. government adopted a “let them fail” policy regarding financial entities previously thought to be Too Big To Fail.

Things settled down ONLY AFTER various governments REINSTATED their financial backing to these TBTF entities.

And so here we are …

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 08:20:59

I suppose I am missing your assertion regarding the role of collateral values in TBTF rescues. Why can’t the Fed/Treasury just directly bail out TBTF entities and let the Mr Market decide how to value the collateral? Using all manner of government subsidies, including the recently added Fed MBS purchases, $8K first-time home buyer tax credit and numerous new layers of govt guaranteed mortgages to the witch’s brew of extant subsidies seems like rather a back door approach to making TBTF entities whole, don’t you think? Certainly the Bernankes and the Summers of the world are familiar with the Principle of Targeting?

 
Comment by combotechie
2010-01-02 09:19:15

“Here I had been thinking all along that the reason the global economy froze up was due to the Fed’s super-duper low rates making the collateral value rise too quickly, leading to a parabolic bubble price increase followed by an epic crash! I guess I was just confused.”

Don’t forget to add in the risk-passing mechanism of derivaties.

Although these are some of the REASONS that set up the crash, the crash was TRIGGERED by the failure of Lehman Brothers.

The crash was destined to happen, it just needed to be triggered.

 
Comment by combotechie
2010-01-02 10:35:51

“Why can’t the Fed/Treasury just directly bail out TBTF entities and let the Mr. Market decide how to value the collaterial?”

Probably because RE collaterial everywhere would be destroyed.

As long as Joe Homebuyer THINKS his house is worth more than Mr. Market is willing to pay he will struggle to keep up with the payments rather than walk away and leave it - vacant - to the bank and to the elements. He will especially struggle to keep the house if he feels the price bottom is at hand. This is why the ILLUSION of price stability is so important, IMO.

Mr. Market will win in the end - he always does - meanwhile time is bought as reality slowly sinks in.

The operative word here is “slowly”.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-01-02 12:09:31

I love how the government makes ten mistakes to cover up one mistake.

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-03 00:48:01

I love how the government makes ten mistakes to cover up one mistake.

Men in office do that too, also golfers.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-01-03 05:07:11

combo wrote:

Although these are some of the REASONS that set up the crash, the crash was TRIGGERED by the failure of Lehman Brothers.
——————–

Gonna have to disagree vehemently with you on this one, combo. The crash was triggered by borrowers’ inability to service their debts. Borrowers couldn’t service their debts because they had been using new debt to service their old debt for many years, and they were ablt to obtain this new debt as long as housing prices kept rising. Once they got all the bottom-dwellers into the market, and everyone was maxed out, housing prices stopped rising, and people were no longer able to tap the housing credit card to pay off existing debts.

The crash was happening long before Lehman was allowed to fail (as it should have, and all the others, too!). The crash is what triggered Lehman’s failure, not the other way around.

 
Comment by combotechie
2010-01-03 06:47:54

What did most of the work in breaking the camel’s back?Was it the final straw, or was it the accumulation of all the previous straws?

The last straw gets the blame, whether it deserves it or not.

What caused the crash, what causes any financial crash? Is it the accumulation of all sorts of screwy transactions that transpired before the crash it or is it due to some final triggering event?

I vote for the accumulation of screwy transactions.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-01-04 02:41:40

Well, If Lehman didn’t crash, what would have happened next? IMHO, some other “TBTF” bank/institution would have collapsed…then another, and another…

In other words, the makings of the crash are far, far bigger than one or two (or three, or four) large financial institutions. The crash was triggered by debt that could not be serviced. This debt was allowed to grow because these financial institutions kept creating new ways to hide the problem and grow the problem even bigger. They are still at it today, along with the complicit government and Federal Reserve. The problem has not been solved. It still exists, and will continue to exist until we begin to correctly define it and allow the solution (foreclosures/debt repudiation) to do its healing work.

All they’ve managed to do so far is to shift the problem from the private, for-profit institutions to the government/taxpayers. At some point, we will have to pay the price. Personally, I’d much prefer the entities who caused the mess suffer the consequences of their actions. Yes, the FDIC and SIPC and PBGC need to be back-stopped. I also favor work programs and infrastructure spending. With all the money they are throwing at the guilty parties, their ability to help **where they really need to help at some point in the future** is diminished.

 
 
Comment by measton
2010-01-02 12:52:21

I agree with Combotechie it’s all about the banks.

I was thinking of following quote

If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and the corporations which grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

Currently It appears to most that the gov is functioning for the banks and not for the people.

If this is so then we can expect a cycle of inflation and deflation.

We know that the gov has been overpaying banks for bad assets and pumping cash into banks. When the banks are full of cash and have few bad assets should we not expect deflation to make the value of their cash increase. At this point will the FED feel free to jack up interest rates rapidly??
Agian this assumes that the FED works exclusively for the Banks. We know that the first step in the wind down is to either pay banks interest to keep money from being lent, or to start selling MBS back to the banks (ie we bought them for 99 cents on teh dollar and will sell them back for 50).

How strong is the counterveiling wind of riots over unemployment politicians thretening the FED and the collapse of leveraged institutions not bailed out by the Federal Gov. I’m talking to you California.

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Comment by CA renter
2010-01-03 05:08:54

Good points, measton.

 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2010-01-02 10:28:03

They are debt loving delusional dumb-asses.

 
Comment by MightyMike
2010-01-02 14:55:11

Professor, have heard this saying:

“Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterward.”

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-02 16:42:20

I’m still trying to figure why the government is working mightily to MAKE more people with limited funds.

 
 
Comment by mikey
2010-01-02 08:24:09

“Years from now, when a houseowning friend or a family member complains about their bills, their taxes, their job, their everything - point them to quotes like this one”

…or even recall old quotes from Al Bundy in the old series “Married with Children”.

“Envy me. That’s my wife. Those are my kids and I sell womens’ shoes”

“A man’s house is his coffin”

:)

 
 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2010-01-02 07:15:49

Chinese firm says won’t pay Goldman on options losses
Reuters

BEIJING, Dec 29 (Reuters) - A small Chinese power generator on Tuesday rejected demands from a Goldman Sachs unit to pay for nearly $80 million lost on two oil hedging contracts, part of a long-running dispute over how China deals with derivatives losses.

Goldman Sachs (GS.N) was one of the foreign banks, along with Citigroup (C.N), Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley (MS.N), blamed by the state assets watchdog for providing “extremely complicated” and difficult to understand derivatives products.

Shenzhen Nanshan Power (000037.SZ) (200037.SZ) said in a statement that it received several notices from J. Aron & Company, a trading subsidiary of Goldman Sachs (GS.N), for at least $79.96 million as compensation for terminating oil option contracts.

“We will not accept the demand by J. Aron for all the losses and related interests,” said Nanshan, in line with the stance it took last December.

“We will try our best to negotiate with J. Aron and resolve the dispute peacefully…but the possibility of using a lawsuit can not be ruled out when talks fail,” it added.

“J. Aron told us in one notice that if we do not pay the money, they will reserve the right to launch a lawsuit and will not send us any further notice.”

The State Assets Supervision and Administration Commission said in September that it would back state-owned companies in any legal action against the foreign banks that sold them oil derivatives, which resulted in losses when oil prices dived late last year.

A Beijing-based Goldman Sachs corporate communication official declined to comment.

Nanshan said in October last year that two oil option-related contracts with J. Aron were signed by its officials without authorisation from the company. In December 2008 it said in a statement it had terminated the deals, and that it would not accept J. Aron’s demand for payment.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-02 07:55:01

No worries. Goldman’s probably insured by AIG against just such an occurrence. We’ll pay them in full.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 08:54:22

Yup. It’s turtles all the way down with TBTF insurance…

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-02 07:23:36

PARIS (Reuters) - Youths burned 1,137 cars across France overnight as New Year’s Eve celebrations once again turned violent, the French Interior Ministry said on Friday.

Car burnings are regular occurrences in poor suburbs that ring France’s big cities, but the arson is especially prevalent during New Year’s Eve revelry.

The number of vehicles torched was only 10 short of the record 1,147 burned this time last year, even though the Interior Ministry mobilized 45,000 police during the night — 10,000 more than 12 months ago.

Comment by In Colorado
2010-01-02 07:39:57

Aren’t these Parisian “poor suburbs” full of immigrants? I seem to recall reading in the past that its mostly muslim immigrants who set the cars on fire and that the gendarmes did not dare enter their hoods.

Comment by In Montana
2010-01-02 09:20:31

shhhh, move along…

Comment by DennisN
2010-01-02 11:14:36

“Youths” = muslim terrorists.

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-01-02 12:15:02

“Youths” is the politically-correct French term for the radical Islamic and heavily criminal North African occupants of the teeming slums around Paris.

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-03 00:52:52

shhhh, move along…

But let’s look into this a bit, so far the ones we know of, tennis shoe-Richard Reid, the latest one, 9/11 boys were from Saudia Arabia, or US then UK, or UK. Now Nigeria.
None from Paris, or Paris relocated… Just saying

 
 
 
Comment by Kim
2010-01-02 13:03:58

That is what I understand to be the case. However, if every New Year’s Eve these guys torch cars, why don’t folks find a safer place to park their cars, if only for that one night?

Comment by yensoy
2010-01-03 04:18:50

Maybe they want their cars torched. Insurance and all that good stuff, you know…

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Comment by CA renter
2010-01-03 05:12:57

They might not have access to a “safer place” to park their cars.

No matter what, the rights of the criminals should never trump the rights of the victims. Every one of these “youths” should be shipped back to wherever they came from.

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Comment by Houstonstan
2010-01-02 09:52:58

Govt should spin this as an ‘ash for clunkers initiative.

 
Comment by measton
2010-01-02 13:08:07

The only place I’ve ever had someone steal cash from me was Paris.

I was on a subway with three friends.
I was standing near the back and a giant “youth” came and stood 1 inch from my face. I thought he was trying to intimidate me, I thought I was at big enough to make it interesting so we just sat their starign at each other. A few seconds later I felt my shoulder bag move and I swung around and some female “youth” was standing behind me. I hit her arm and thought she might have been touching my shoulder bag. I looked at the bag and everything looked OK. It didn’t appear that anything was open, but I moved to the wall to make sure no one was behind me. AS I was doing this I realized that three “youths” were exiting the train. I looked again at my shoulder bag and realized I had a few guilders that had been in a side pocket that were gone. Not much of a haul.

It was a 3 person team.
The giant was there to distract me and pummel me if I grabbed the girl. The girl picked my pocket, and the lookout gave them the signal that the stop was coming up and it was time to make their move. Nice little operation. I’m sure if I had held onto that girl the neanderthal would have pummeled me from behind. I’m sure I would have if I had been certain she was picking my pocket. My three traveling companions wouldn’t have been much help as 2 I didn’t know well, and all three were pretty thin.

Comment by DD
2010-01-03 00:55:01

The only place I’ve ever had someone steal cash from me was Paris. NYC, Los Angeles, Palm Springs after house burned down-pilferage. None in Paris. And I have been in Paris to many times to count for yrs.

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-02 16:52:14

While I often take the side of the down and out of luck on this bored, it is more for practical reasons than any delusion of humanity.

So when I see stupid things done by the poor, it also means I’ll call it.

This is a good example: If the poor would not destroy their own neighborhoods and prey upon their own neighbors, they would be a little better off.

Comment by CA renter
2010-01-03 05:15:30

Well said, eco.

I’m pretty liberal as well, and always encourage helping the underdogs; but sometimes, people do have to take responsibility for their own circumstances. This is a perfect example.

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-02 18:30:07

Another post bites the dust.

Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-02 18:38:21

Is some keyword I’m using wrong?

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-02 18:37:21

While I often stand up for the poor and unfortunate, I still call stupid when I see it.

Destroying your own neighborhood is stupid. You’re poor! So why destroy what little you have?

Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2010-01-02 21:20:18

“Destroying your own neighborhood is stupid. You’re poor! So why destroy what little you have?”

Because cops WILL go into the better neighborhoods and protect them.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-02 21:38:33

Oops. Fooled again. :lol:

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 07:30:25

I find the claims by the central bankers in top U.S. economic policy positions that they saved the system equally premature to W’s victory speech on the deck of the ship. Isn’t it too early to say yet at this point whether the financial rescue succeeded?

Timothy Geithner

The Treasury secretary was largely responsible for directing the federal government’s response to the financial crisis. He’s still got his work cut out for him.

By Daniel Gross | NEWSWEEK
Published Dec 21, 2009
From the magazine issue dated Jan 4, 2010

So you don’t think the bailouts were too friendly to Wall Street?
The idea that the strategy was unfair and has principally benefited a small number of institutions in New York is a mischaracterization of the design and result of the strategy. I thought people would have understood this after the failure of Lehman Brothers. But when you do too little and you leave the system with real fear that everything is going to fall apart, like any financial crisis, it hurts the poorest most. A just and fair strategy, even if it is politically hardest to explain and justify, is to use well-designed but massive force to stabilize the system.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-02 08:03:21

“A just and fair strategy, even if it is politically hardest to explain and justify, is to use well-designed but massive force to stabilize the system.”

Translation- Unless the Wall Street elite are assured that they will be fantastically wealthy for generations to come, they will destroy the economy.

Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-02 18:54:06

They will too. Even if it means WW3.

Welcome to the REAL new world order.

 
 
Comment by measton
2010-01-02 13:11:13

Lehman had to be sacrificed so that the other banks could say
see look what happens if we fail, give us everything we want.
I think Fuld really felt he was thrown under the buss, not that he wouldn’t have done the same thing.

Again the FEDS could have just taken over a couple large banks and started making loans. Then they could have let the other banks fail. Bond holders and stock holders should have been allowed to eat the crap sandwich that the rest of the country got.

Comment by CA renter
2010-01-03 05:18:32

Totally agree.

The FDIC, SIPC and PBGC should have been backed, along with any insurance claims that might not have been paid out when the insurance companies failed…but ONLY for standard insurance (property and casualty, etc.), not for financial derivatives.

 
 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-01-02 13:35:55

Us folks on Main Street were prepared to deal with the consequences of a global financial meltdown, as long as the guys that caused it got their pee-pees whacked good.

Unfortunately, our government decided to bail out their buddies on Wall Street, and let everyone else pound sand. So Main Street is taking the hit, and we don’t gain anything.

Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-02 18:57:42

This tells me that their “enforcers” are better than the governments “enforcers.”

Of course, why threaten when you can just buy?

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-02 07:30:59

World’s Tallest Building to Open in Dubai ~ January 02, 2010
Fox News

Dubai is set to open the world’s tallest skyscraper Monday amid the Gulf emirate’s financial woes.

The Burj Dubai tower contains 57 lifts, 1,044 apartments, 49 floors of office space and a hotel.

It can be seen from as far as 59 miles away and is estimated to have cost one billion dollars.

While the exact height of the building is under wraps, Emaar, the firm that developed the property, says it exceeds 2,640 feet, putting it far higher than Taiwan’s Taipei 101 tower.

“We thought that it would be slightly taller than the existing tallest tower of Taipei 101. (Emaar) kept on asking us to go higher but we didn’t know how high we could go,” Bill Baker, a partner in Skidmore, Owings and Merrill (SOM), which designed the tower, told the AFP. “We were able to tune the building like we tune a music instrument. As we went higher and higher and higher, we discovered that by doing that process… we were able to reach heights much higher than we ever thought we could.”

Property prices in Dubai have dived over 50 percent over the past year and some believe the skyscrpaer will be the last of the giant projects that have brought global fame to Dubai.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 08:23:46

Vegas and Dubai both appear to be in the running for location of the most spectacular commercial real estate crash on the planet. Any thoughts on which of these locales (or other candidates) are in the lead?

Comment by Blue Skye
2010-01-02 08:47:26

Castles built on sand. It’s an old story.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 08:53:21

Yes it is.

Ozymandias

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: “Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
`My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!’
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away”.

– Percy Bysshe Shelley –

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-01-02 12:17:42

A girlfriend in college turned me on to Shelly. At the time I had ulterior motives, let’s say, in feigning interest, but then I actually started reading it - amazing, timeless stuff.

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-03 00:57:19

At the time I had ulterior motives, let’s say, in feigning interest,

And the girlfriend? Timeless?

 
 
 
 
Comment by mikey
2010-01-02 08:37:58

“While the exact height of the building is under wraps, Emaar, the firm that developed the property, says it exceeds 2,640 feet, putting it far higher than Taiwan’s Taipei 101 tower.”

urrr…I trust this thing…wasn’t built on just sand?

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-01-02 16:19:13

Wow that makes it exactly half a mile high.

I figure if Al Quaeda hijacks a plane into that building, the moderate Muslims who have been curiously quiet about the fundies wrongdoings will finally turn against the fundies. That would be a civil war that ends the fundamentalist Muslims reign of terror.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-02 07:32:29

New year, old worries for U.S. stocks.

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. stocks closed out 2009 with the best performance in six years, but monthly employment figures in the first week of the new year will keep investors focused on what is likely to be 2010’s reality — the economy’s struggle to recover.

On the data front, the main event will be Friday’s report from the Labor Department on U.S. non-farm payrolls in December. Economists polled by Reuters have forecast that payrolls shed 20,000 jobs in the final month of 2009, compared with just 11,000 lost in November.

The Institute for Supply Management’s report on manufacturing, due on Monday, is expected to show the ailing sector was still slow to expand in December, while a projected drop in November pending home sales, due on Tuesday, will underscore the housing market’s shaky recovery.

Major factors in the stock market’s 2009 rally have been ultra-low interest rates and the Federal Reserve’s purchases of securities. A repeat of November’s much better-than-expected unemployment report could cause investors to worry that the Fed will increase borrowing costs sooner than previously thought.

Thomas Wilson, managing director of institutional investments at Brinker Capital in Berwyn, Pennsylvania, said the unwinding of the fiscal and monetary stimulus, possibly in the second half of 2010, will be a “delicate and deliberate process” that could ruffle markets.

Comment by In Colorado
2010-01-02 11:40:23

Unemployment is irrelevant. The market will continue to rally based on “optimism for the future.”

Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-02 18:59:53

I would have said “bait and switch” but that’s just me. :lol:

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 07:33:01

Here is more from the “speech on the ship” interview with Secretary Geithner (I accidentally hit the “Add comment” button before I was through…):

There are other costs associated with these efforts, like the weak dollar and the Fed’s large balance sheet. Shouldn’t we be worried about them?
I don’t see that with the dollar. When fear was most acute, people wanted to be in Treasuries and hold dollars. Even today, when you have moments of darkness, people want dollars. The Fed’s balance sheet is larger because it understandably decided to run a monetary policy to break the recession. But there are other costs not captured by what we’ve discussed. The government will bear losses in AIG, the automobile companies, and in Fannie and Freddie. But the losses there will probably be lower than what people think, too.

The biggest downside surprise?
The [high] level of unemployment relative to what was happening in the economy as a whole. I’m not an economist, but almost all forecasters missed that. And that’s hugely consequential, because it’s the prism through which most people view basic economic health.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 07:59:56

I almost forgot to include this pearl with my post on the Geithner interview. As my high school tennis coach would have quickly pointed out, “You can rationalize all you want.”

Gross: After moving to Washington, you put your house in suburban New York on the market for less than you paid for it. Analysts saw that as a great metaphor for the national housing crisis: the Treasury secretary is going to take a loss on his house. Did you manage to sell it?

Geithner: We decided to rent it very early, because rents were better than prices in most of the country, and it was a financially good decision. It wasn’t as good a metaphor as people thought.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-02 08:11:56

‘It wasn’t as good a metaphor as people thought.’

We’ll see.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 08:22:26

Exactimento, amigo!

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Comment by iftheshoefits
2010-01-02 09:16:22

Interesting that he compared rents to “prices in most of the country”, rather than to his carrying costs (PITI + avg. maintenance). I’ll bet the metaphor holds just fine.

And sadly as usual, there’s no follow-up on that point by the interviewer. Meh. It’s Newsweek.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-02 09:54:23

His spin on the metaphor isn’t the metaphor.

But his justification for renting out his ‘currently undervalued’ home is.

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Comment by measton
2010-01-02 13:15:01

But his justification for renting out his ‘currently undervalued’ home is.

Probably that some phantom banker is renting it for say 3x his monthly mortage.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2010-01-02 15:37:07

“Probably that some phantom banker is renting it for say 3x his monthly mortage.”

My money is on this being the reality. I’m guessing it is “rented” by Goldman.

If I lived in the area, I would definitely do some inquiring to see if someone is actually living there. If there were something to this, some enterprising reporter might make an interesting/career-changing story of this.

Wouldn’t it be illegal to bribe the Treasury Secretary with a sham rental arrangement?

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-01-03 05:24:57

Ooooh, more scandal and intrigue! ;)

I love the tin-foil-hat brigade (of which I’m a proud member).

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-02 07:36:04

“Things are getting shaky abroad,”" observes the irascible curmudgeon Fred Reed. “America’s title of top dog has become questionable. While the US hemorrhages money in strange wars, China grows like kudzu. Economic power eventually, usually quickly, engenders diplomatic and military power. Signs abound. Japan talks about ejecting American forces, apparently not wanting to be used by Washington as a sepoy spearhead against a huge neighbor. The wind is blowing.

“I find it interesting to hear the BBC speaking casually of Japan as the world’s most technologically advanced nation, of China as ‘the world’s factory.’ It looks as if Asia will soon be dominant economically. The ‘war on terror’ pushes America toward bankruptcy and, when lost, will leave the Pentagon unable to pursue new adventures for, probably, a couple of decades. Another decade or so of war followed by a withdrawal will leave the United States impoverished, isolated, out of Islamic countries, and with its teeth pulled. Isn’t that what bin Laden or somebody said he wanted?” Reed concludes bin Laden and his henchfolk appear to be bringing the USA to its knees on a very meager budget.

“Barefoot and Panty Scanned”.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 11:43:29

“Another decade or so of war followed by a withdrawal will leave the United States impoverished, isolated, out of Islamic countries, and with its teeth pulled. Isn’t that what bin Laden or somebody said he wanted?”

Sounds about right. Retards like Eddie think W’s War on Terror was a good idea, but I believe the historians will identify Bin Laden’s strategy of deploying a ragtag band of terrorists wielding box cutters to draw the U.S. into two military quagmires a wild success at dissipating our economic power.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-02 19:12:44

A terrorist’s number one goal is to create fear. This causes the target to curtail normal freedoms while expending large sums from their treasury to do so.

In this, they have won.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-02 07:41:13

REAL ESTATE ~ LA. Times.
A foreclosure auction for the super-rich
The bids rise in $100,000 increments at this seven-bedroom, 11-bathroom Tarzana estate. ~ January 2, 2010

The bargain hunters jockey gingerly for a spot to park their luxury sedans and SUVs along Brewster Drive, a winding road in the hills of Tarzana.

It’s a woodsy neighborhood of large homes behind wrought-iron gates, and more than two dozen shoppers are here to bid for a piece of it.

Housing auctions are plentiful these days, including builders’ closeouts that lure hundreds of bidders to hotel ballrooms and public sales of foreclosures on the courthouse steps. But this time the steel-nerved speed-talkers at Kennedy Wilson Auction Group are unloading a palatial 13,500-square-foot bank-owned spec home that had been listed for $9.775 million just a year earlier.

“A one-off,” says Andrew Levant of the Beverly Hills auction house, meaning just that single property is on the block. The minimum bid at the noon event: $2.1 million for the seven-bedroom, 11-bathroom property.

“The typical auction we do — whether for a lender, developer or investors — is 20 to 60 units in a condo or patio homes project, not necessarily multimillion-dollar homes,” says Levant, who estimates that the cost to build the three-level Tuscan-style villa topped $7.5 million.

With a four-week marketing campaign and a budget of $25,000, Levant conducted eight open houses, plus some private showings, leading up to the auction on a recent Saturday. He says more than 250 people viewed the property, dubbed the Brewster Estate.

“There apparently are still lots of people interested in purchasing mansion-size homes,” says Levant, the firm’s senior managing director of business development. “They just don’t want to spend $10 million to $20 million for the privilege.”

More than an hour before auction time, the 29 registered participants begin signing in. They bring family, friends and real estate agents. They carry the requisite $25,000 cashier’s checks. A uniformed security guard keeps a low profile in the background.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 08:08:49

“It’s a woodsy neighborhood of large homes behind wrought-iron gates, and more than two dozen shoppers are here to bid for a piece of it.”

Bubble era linguistic delusion: ‘Shopping’ for $2m homes is little different than ’shopping’ for tomatoes or drapes. This term suggests a routine activity, while in non-mania times, purchasing a $2m home would be considered serious business involving careful consideration.

Comment by Muggy
2010-01-02 09:56:33

“tomatoes or drapes”

What happened to guns or butter? Is this another “chickification” indicator? Lol…

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-01-02 12:19:18

This is probably more a “see and be seen” event for the chattering classes, rather than a serious shopping expedition.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-02 07:42:49

If furloughs go, state workers fear layoffs could be next
Saturday, Jan. 2, 2010 - Page 1A

Tens of thousands of state workers began the new year Friday unsure whether to be happy about the prospect of a bigger paycheck in 2010 – or fear the prospect of a pink slip.

The uncertainty emanates from decisions handed down Thursday in three cases challenging Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s decision last year to furlough about 200,000 state workers three days a month – tantamount to a 14 percent pay cut.

Alameda Superior Court Judge Frank Roesch ruled that the governor’s “emergency” actions, designed to help stem the state’s flood of budgetary red ink, were legally flawed, although he did not address the issue of reimbursing workers for lost wages.

While the rulings were hailed by leaders of state worker unions as a positive step to end the furloughs, they also expressed fear that if the courts ultimately decide the governor lacks the legal authority to furlough them, the alternative could be worse: massive layoffs.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 08:05:44

I suspect the judge may have missed the point that the furloughs are probably a less bad alternative than layoffs, given the likely necessity of one or the other of these choices.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-01-02 09:55:19

“Dura lex sed lex” usual modus operandi for judges… ;-)

Comment by polly
2010-01-02 12:13:54

This had nothing to do with whether the furloughs were less bad than layoffs. I haven’t researched this one much, but the radio report was that the gov didn’t have the legal authority to impose furloughs on certain employees because their salaries were partially paid by other than state of California funds. It would be interesting to know if the state was failing to share the salary savings with the other programs (federal or local) that provided salary funding as well, taking all 14% of the salary savings out of their own share of the cost of the program.

Funny thing about a law that recognizes that there are limits on executive power.

If you want to look for a judge to decide a case on what option is the least bad, look to a family court that still has elements of the old equity (vs. law) system in it.

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Comment by Anthony
2010-01-02 10:20:01

Don’t worry. I’m sure California’s massive cop and firefighter unions will immediately blast the airwaves with more bond proposals to give them raises. I know of three batallion chiefs with Cal-Fire who pull in over $150K (plus 90% defined benefit pension after 25 years). A little excessive–yet they all feel entitled to more. After all, after 9/11, all these people were deemed heroes and deserving of any amount of money.

Comment by scdave
2010-01-02 11:26:32

A little excessive–yet they all feel entitled to more ??

A little excessive ?? They are laughing at us all the way to the bank…

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Comment by matthew
2010-01-02 13:53:53

fire fighters.. easily the most overpaid and overhyped job on the planet..

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Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-02 19:20:17

Really? Fought many fires have you? Know much about the science of firestorms?

When the crap hits the fans, it’s not the cops who save your life and keep your entire town/city from being destroyed on an everyday basis.

Are they perfect? Hell no. But they truly do stand between you and total devastation.

 
Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2010-01-02 21:31:49

You might also want to research the disease rate and life spans of fire fighters. They inhale a heck of a lot of bad stuff or absorb it through the skin. It’s hot, dirty, dangerous work that will cause most of them to die younger than if they work at a desk.

And personally I think the average fire fighter, police officer, teacher and nurse should be earning a lot more than bankers, mortgage brokers or financial advisors who just sell crap. But of course that’s not what we value in our society.

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-03 01:03:04

And personally I think the average fire fighter, police officer, teacher and nurse should be earning a lot more than bankers, mortgage brokers or financial advisors who just sell crap. But of course that’s not what we value in our society.

+1

 
Comment by yensoy
2010-01-03 05:04:46

Time to require concrete framed construction and outlaw wood frames.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-01-03 05:30:55

And personally I think the average fire fighter, police officer, teacher and nurse should be earning a lot more than bankers, mortgage brokers or financial advisors who just sell crap. But of course that’s not what we value in our society.
——————–

Amen, SD Bear!

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-01-03 05:32:18

That being said, the unions are foolish to cheer on the elimination of the furloughs. As much as I champion unions and union members, sometimes they make exceedingly poor choices.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-01-03 07:09:59

Top 10 Most Dangerous Jobs in America:
1. Fishers
2. Timber and Logger workers
3. Aircraft pilots
4. Structural iron and steel workers
5. Garbage men
6. Farmers and Ranchers
7. Roofers
8. Electrical Power workers
9. Drivers/Route sales and Truck Drivers
10. Taxi Drivers and Chauffeurs

[Reference: Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) fatalities records, 2007]

Firefighters are really cool but:
New codes, modern fire-fighting methods and sprinklers have made the fireman’s job much less dangerous than in the recent past but even 20 years ago a bar worker and musician probably inhaled more smoke in a lifetime than a fireman.

Painters, nail salon/construction/body shop/bio and chem lab workers, nurses, mechanics, artists and travelers seated next to poison-fart clowns inhale and absorb a lot of bad stuff too.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2010-01-03 07:44:23

Oh boy is that TRUE, the amount of foggy smoky places i been in….well at least it was only for a few hours at a time..

Same with loud music… I learned how to mix music with the least amount of headphone/monitor volume…and I see among my dj friends what damage cranking it up in a tiny dj booth has done to their hearing.
———————————–
but even 20 years ago a bar worker and musician probably inhaled more smoke in a lifetime than a fireman.

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-03 21:38:49

BS on airline pilots being #3. That job is completely computerized + steel framed doors protecting….I digress.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-02 07:45:10

Cleveland: Rookie cops losing jobs in 10 days

Sherrie Flores has finished making supper for her two children, Elizha and Sharia, and is getting ready for work. As she adjusts her blue Cleveland Police uniform, she looks over and says, “I can’t believe that I won’t be doing this anymore in ten days.”

Flores gave up her six-year career as a Cuyahoga County social services caseworker to become a Cleveland police officer.

On Oct. 30, she was sworn in for duty, along with her entire class after graduation from the Cleveland Police academy.

On Christmas Eve, the entire rookie class was given pink slips by the City of Cleveland. Their jobs are being wiped out in a sudden budget cut.

Sherrie tries not to show her anger and frustration but said, “To go through the entire process for six months, all the hard work and the Police Academy, and then to work for 2 months, only to be laid off. It’s not right.”

The Mayor’s office says the city budget is suddenly in the red. Mayor Frank Jackson said, “The police officers can keep their jobs. It just entails a sacrifice.”

The police union was offered two tough choices: agree to a pay cut or face layoffs. The union voted 899 to 25 against the pay concessions.

Comment by Mike in Miami
2010-01-02 08:37:23

Damn, who will write all the speeding tickets? Here in Miami the police is too chicken to go after real criminals. So they specialize in traffic tickets, public drunkeness or harass a bum for sleeping under a bridge. Complete waste of tax payer money.

Comment by Muggy
2010-01-02 10:34:47

That is very surprising that they were cut after academy. To me, that is a failure of leadership. Education is notorious for over-hiring, but typically police agencies and fire departments have a good idea of how many cadets they can hire because they do spend quite a bit of time and money on training.

 
Comment by are they crazy
2010-01-02 11:27:01

I’ve never seen so many police all over the place as I have in South Beach. What do they all do?

 
 
Comment by scdave
2010-01-02 11:29:25

The union voted 899 to 25 against the pay concessions ??

so much for the brotherhood…

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2010-01-02 12:14:30

Because of budget problems San Jose will not have a police academy for 2010.

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-03 01:05:32

The police union was offered two tough choices: agree to a pay cut or face layoffs. The union voted 899 to 25 against the pay concessions.

Our small union chose to go with jobs. Ixnay on the apay, but then the corp continues to furlough willy nilly, year after year,meanwhile yoy the mgmnt/ceo vps keep getting huge yr end bonuses. No mgmnt furloughed at all. Now how does that work again- bash the unions thingy?

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-02 07:48:51

FMCSA orders Arrow Trucking to secure Trucks and Trailers and Loads
Truck Industry Examiner

The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) issued an Emergency order to Arrow Trucking Company.

The Emergency order cited that there may be a potential threat to public safety for abandoned trucks, and trailers sitting in truck stops, or rest areas, anywhere the general public has access.

The order states that Arrow executives are to make sure the trucks and trailers (1,400 tractors and over 3,000 trailers) are in secure areas.

Trucks and trailers abandoned in a truck stop parking lot are not considered secure. Daimler, Kenworth and International are who owns the trucks, and were offering drivers an incentive to bring the trucks into a dealership. They are offering the drivers a bus ticket, or $200.00 for travel. Rumors are that it takes up to 72 hours to get the incentives. So, if drivers were able to, they were getting fuel and just trying to get home, by any means whatsoever.

The emergency order states that Arrow management and officers are ordered to direct Arrow employees or other responsible and qualified operators to drive Arrow’s CMV’s to the appropriate facilities for the safe and orderly transfer of responsibility and control over the vehicles. If qualified drivers are not available or driving is not an option, then Arrow is ordered to have the vehicles towed to a safe and secure place and arrange for transfer of responsibility of the vehicles.

Comment by Muggy
2010-01-02 10:37:59

That is amazing. I have to admit, I am not surprised when I see abandoned CRE or green pools, but I truly did not imagine this type of scenario when all of this started.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-02 07:54:29

Will the Euro Become the Most Hated
Currency for 2010? ~ Bryan Rich ~ Weiss Research

For the better part of 2009 the U.S. dollar was the world’s most hated currency. But it’s looking increasingly likely the tables could turn in 2010. And the euro could take over that unenviable title.

In recent weeks we’ve seen a surge in scrutiny over sovereign debt. First, it was announced that Dubai would be “restructuring” its debt (i.e. default). And then the focus quickly turned toward the Eurozone’s weakest link — namely Greece.

This type of scrutiny can snowball quickly. Now other weak spots in the Eurozone, such as Spain, Italy, Ireland and Portugal are getting more attention. All of these countries are running massive budget deficits, many have huge debt burdens and all have muted prospects for growth.

That’s a recipe of trouble. Consequently, yields on government bonds in these countries have surged in recent weeks, reflecting the rising uncertainty surrounding their ability to meet debt obligations.

Weak spots could threaten the Eurozone’s stability.
Investors are concerned about a spillover of debt defaults that could escalate into in a sovereign debt crisis. That is, debt defaults that spread throughout emerging market countries, perhaps even the industrialized world.

These problems aren’t new. And they’re occurring in the same European countries that have been vulnerable from the outset of the global financial crisis.

But the attention for much of 2009 has been squarely on the U.S. And because of that, these weak countries have gotten a free pass for quite a while.

Flaws of the Euro …

Countries that have joined the euro currency have unique challenges when economic times are tough. And we’ll likely find that the range of problems within the Eurozone will present a major threat to the euro’s lifespan.

The monetary union in Europe consists of a common currency and a common monetary policy. But fiscal policy is determined by each individual country. And to patrol those fiscal decisions, the European Union established its Growth and Stability Pact that, among other things, sets two criteria for member countries:

1) Deficit spending by its member countries cannot exceed three percent of GDP, and

2) Total government debt cannot exceed 60 percent of GDP.

Comment by Houstonstan
2010-01-02 09:57:46

YIf this happens, you can trade this trend with DRR. 2x Short Euro ETN.

 
 
Comment by laurel, md
2010-01-02 08:00:34

For those who advise moving to No Dak for a job and cheap housing…. it is now -33 degress below zero, with a 4 mile breeze.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 08:10:07

That helps explain why ND home prices are so reasonable and the jobs are so plentiful, no?

Comment by In Montana
2010-01-02 09:27:18

oil

Comment by scdave
2010-01-02 11:35:58

oil ??

Yep…Just like Texas…57% of the nations jobs that were created last year were created in Texas….IMO, the benefits of the Bush/Cheney windfall manifesting itself with $143. per barrel oil…

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Comment by mtnbikegirl
2010-01-02 11:39:58

Went to ND for my mom’s funeral in October. Economy is pretty hopping all things considered. Tough time getting a rental car (FEMA is still there big time) and tough time getting a hotel room in Bismarck between the teacher’s conference and the Jehovah’s witness conference. But it was cold and windy and windy and cold.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-01-02 12:23:46

I stopped in Fargo, ND, a couple of months ago. Did a doubletake when I saw Caucasian-American construction workers and hotel maids - I thought, “that’s ethnically impossible!” Everywhere else those jobs have been filled by Latino immigrants.

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Comment by DD
2010-01-03 01:07:26

teacher’s conference and the Jehovah’s witness conference.
sounds like a really hot time at the hotel bars! woo hoo

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Comment by CA renter
2010-01-03 05:37:19

Sorry to hear about your mom, MtnBG. :(

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Comment by DD
2010-01-03 21:40:09

Sorry you lost your mom.

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Comment by jeff saturday
2010-01-02 08:21:38

Plan ready for allocating ND housing credits
The Associated Press
Posted: 11:25 a.m. Thursday, Dec. 31, 2009

BISMARCK, N.D. — North Dakota’s Industrial Commission has approved a plan for allocating $2.43 million worth of housing tax credits next year.

The credits are sold to investors and used to help finance construction of low-income housing.

Some credits are reserved for North Dakota’s American Indian reservations and to subsidize housing in western North Dakota’s oil patch, where housing is often in short supply.

Developers have until Feb. 26 to apply for the first round of housing credits.

Gov. John Hoeven, Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem and Agriculture Commissioner Doug Goehring make up the Industrial Commission. They oversee the North Dakota Housing Finance Agency, which runs the tax credit program.

 
 
Comment by cougar91
2010-01-02 09:11:13

From NYT, very interesting pictures too. It’s like living in a coffin. I wonder if Americans will ever put up with such a living arrangement?

For Some in Japan, Home Is a Tiny Plastic Bunk

TOKYO — For Atsushi Nakanishi, jobless since Christmas, home is a cubicle barely bigger than a coffin — one of dozens of berths stacked two units high in one of central Tokyo’s decrepit “capsule” hotels.

“It’s just a place to crawl into and sleep,” he said, rolling his neck and stroking his black suit — one of just two he owns after discarding the rest of his wardrobe for lack of space. “You get used to it.”

When Capsule Hotel Shinjuku 510 opened nearly two decades ago, Japan was just beginning to pull back from its bubble economy, and the hotel’s tiny plastic cubicles offered a night’s refuge to salarymen who had missed the last train home.

Now, Hotel Shinjuku 510’s capsules, no larger than 6 1/2 feet long by 5 feet wide, and not tall enough to stand up in, have become an affordable option for some people with nowhere else to go as Japan endures its worst recession since World War II.

Once-booming exporters laid off workers en masse in 2009 as the global economic crisis pushed down demand. Many of the newly unemployed, forced from their company-sponsored housing or unable to make rent, have become homeless.

Comment by Houstonstan
2010-01-02 10:00:20

I visited Tokyo 3 years ago and saw homeless living in Shinjuku park and also along the river. I was amazed at how spotless some of their makeshift shelters were.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 11:48:37

“Spotless makeshift shelters” = affordable housing, Japanese style

(I’m quite certain this beats living in a Las Vegas storm drain by a wide quality margin)

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 15:25:38

This LV tunnel town is a disaster waiting to happy at the next gully washer of a desert thunderstorm.

Local writer Matthew O’Brien, who has had a book published about the tunnel people, called Beneath The Neon, has been working with Steven and others to help get people housed. He recently founded the Shine A Light foundation to aid them.

He explains: “I guide social workers into the tunnels, show them the terrain and introduce them to people.

“They offer these people services like health and drug counselling.

“We have got 12 to 15 people into houses in the last six months.

“But a lot of the people are very resistant to help. Many don’t want to give up their addictions.

“They like their freedom and that no one is telling them what to do.

“They are scared of what’s out there.

“To come out of the tunnel and face the world is intimidating for some of the people. Some are very much entrenched down in that tunnel and comfortable. That’s why the charity doesn’t like to give out too much food, water and clothing.

“We don’t want them to get too comfortable because it is really an illusion. It can be extremely dangerous.

“It doesn’t rain much in Nevada but when it does the tunnels can fill very quickly. There have been 20 drownings in the last 20 years and a lot of those were people who were living in the tunnels.

“Steve and Kathryn can say they feel like they have a home. But when it pours down three inches of rain in two hours it’s clear it’s not a home. It’s a flood channel.”

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Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-02 22:09:48

“They are scared of what’s out there.”

Well I can’t blame them there.

 
 
 
 
Comment by still not time
2010-01-02 10:18:41

I would like the HBB brain trust’s opinion. I’m thinking of putting an offer in for a reo in Parrish FL. It is a HOA community currently at 426.00 per quarter, house is 2830 square feet under air. The home itself is nice and only appears to need paint to bring it back, it was built in 2006 and sold for 512K in late 06. Would an offer of 230K cash be reasonable? This translates to just over 81.00 ppsf. Can anyone from the area tell me what they think prices may fall to further. I asked the builder of the home how much to build and was told that 80.00ppsf is now available but includes total square foot meaning it would be for 3843 sf costing 307,440.00 plus the lot which could be as high as 75,000. What do you folks think?

Comment by Muggy
2010-01-02 10:45:07

Dude, IMHO there is waaayyy too much risk here. How stable is the HOA? How stable are the residents? 2006… Chinese drywall?

HOA @ $1,700 sounds excessive. Look up Westlake Village in Palm Harbor — that is where we narrowed our search. The HOA there is $540/yr. but includes basketball, pool, playground, walking trail, orchard and so on.

For $1,700 a year this’d better be some oddball horse community that includes stalls and trailer parking or something like that.

Comment by Muggy
2010-01-02 10:49:53

Holy moly, I just looked up 3/2 in Parrish from 200-600k and there are 130 of them. I think you need to revisit the reset chart again.

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Comment by still not time
2010-01-02 11:55:58

Muggy, thanks for responding. It’s a 4/3/3. I have looked at the reset chart many times but here’s the thing. The house shows up on the MLS Last Monday night so I go look at it Tuesday and while I’m there two other couples show up to look at it, keep in mind I’m only there for about an hour. I don’t know why but there are a lot of people looking at REO, maybe to speculate, maybe to live in, who know’s at this point. What I do know is it appears to be a nice home that would fit me well in an area I like. What the house’s intrisic value is probably anyone’s guess. I do know that I’m tired of waiting for the bottom.

 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2010-01-02 10:50:29

What’s the MLS number? Are you from the area? It looks like farm country. Will you live in the house and will you be happy with the return (annual equivalent rent - taxes, insurance, HOA, and maintenance) on your 230K?

Comment by ride the river
2010-01-02 11:30:22

I feel pretty good about renting, not owning, down in Lakewood Ranch, FL. We just moved in from out of State and need to look around and see if we are happy here anyway. The cost to own this home would be at least 50 percent more than my rent. If interest rates go up next year, prices will probably drop some more. Too many sellers still wishing for the return of good times. Not likely to happen soon. Why buy a depreciating asset if no chance for appreciation? I would like to buy, but not at the price of taking a big hit. I would buy if the buy/rent differential was maybe 10 or 15 percent.

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Comment by Lip
2010-01-02 11:05:31

still not time, IMO I would:

1. Verify that you can buy home insurance for that specific home.

Many insurers have enacted stringent rules about what they are willing to insure and I do not know the specific concerns, but would imagine that they might require a certain age, certain kind of construction and acertain kind of roofing shingle.

2. Then low ball the hell out of them to see how far they’re willing to go.

Good luck and always remember that this could be a long term purchase

 
Comment by Real Estate Refugee
2010-01-02 11:16:50

General Advice:

(1) Spend some time finding one or two really competent home inspectors. We already know about chinese drywall - who knows what else was going on.

(2) Cost to the builder is one thing - quality of construction is another. Do you know of any older buildings this builder built that you can check out?

(3) I look at the toilets. Toto - best; Kohler - good; American Standard - questionable.

I’ll leave the economic issues to PB.

Comment by still not time
2010-01-02 11:40:56

Thanks for the replies. The mls number is ML#P4610028. The reason for the high HOA is as many suggested here is there are a lot of people not paying. The quality of the house is good, Kohler fixtures and tubs, something not seen since the housing boom. When I looked at the home I ckecked the attic and pulled back some of the insulation and found no ginsu writing or Knauff which would indicate it’s from China, also the copper tubing for the water is not corroded which would mean the drywall was likely from USA. Regarding home owners insurance I have already priced it out, 1140.00 annually with a 2% deductable for wind/hurricane. Because it is a new home the insurance is much cheaper than traditional, say before 2002. As for being in farm country it is, it’s location is Golf Course Rd and just west of Rye Road. The community is Twin Rivers and the smallest lot is half an acre and goes up to 2 acres. I can’t speak for anyone else but my preference is country living without my neighbors being right on top of me. I have been lurking here since 2005/6 as I’m sure Ben will attest to and value your comments.

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Comment by Muggy
2010-01-02 14:22:28

Can you stay sane if that house went down to $150? I looked at a 3/2 in East Lake very similar to this that was asking $170k.

I dunno, I’m glad you posted the MLS so I could see it…. we just looked at a 3/2 today to rent, and it sucked — I understand that you’re running out of patience, but this to me seems like a gamble. The HOA should be your red flag.

 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2010-01-02 12:13:50

Toto - best; Kohler - good; American Standard - questionable.

Yeah, I always go with the maker of toilets that have a history of catching on fire.

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Comment by reuven
2010-01-02 11:42:01

NY Times front page story today: “U.S. Loan Effort Is Seen as Adding to Housing Woes” was very interesting. Finally, the administration and the media are starting to raise the points many of us made here two years ago.

They even advanced the notion that we may have been better off if we simply let everyone who got a mortgage they couldn’t possibly pay back default quickly, without prolonging the process.

Comment by Lisa
2010-01-02 13:17:11

“NY Times front page story today: “U.S. Loan Effort Is Seen as Adding to Housing Woes” was very interesting. Finally, the administration and the media are starting to raise the points many of us made here two years ago.”

I was shocked when I saw this on the NYT’s front page. And yes, so many of the points raised were exactly what we’ve posted on these boards since Obama & Co started rolling out the FB Bailout programs.

It’s a cruel game keeping people in houses they can’t afford, and dinging their credit score while in gov’t sponsored modification programs. I hope folks stop taking the bait, which is clearly aimed at keeping payments rolling in to the banks, and just say no. Send in the keys and get on with your life.

Comment by CA renter
2010-01-03 06:05:56

Great article, but Mark Zandi is suggesting principal write-downs, which will cause an entirely new problem: EVERYBODY will want one.

From the article:

Mr. Zandi proposes that the Treasury Department push banks to write down some loan balances by reimbursing the companies for their losses. He pointedly rejects the notion that government ought to get out of the way and let foreclosures work their way through the market, saying that course risks a surge of foreclosures and declining house prices that could pull the economy back into recession.

“We want to overwhelm this problem,” he said. “If we do go back into recession, it will be very difficult to get out.”

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-02 11:59:43

Picked up a copy of the local fish wrap (aka Rancho Bernardo News Journal) after my Sat a.m. racquetball game today. Here are the opening paragraphs of two front-page articles:

Homes, businesses coming to 4S Ranch
By Elizabeth Marie Himchak
December 30, 2009

Two new neighborhoods, a county park and grocery store are among changes 4S Ranch residents can expect to see in 2010.

California West Communities will soon begin offering homes in Andalusia and Monteluz, two neighborhoods in the northern part of 4S Ranch. Both are accessible via 4S Ranch Parkway and Alva Road.

These are the first new homes to come onto the market in 4S Ranch for a couple of years. Andalusia will have 94 homes and Monteluz, 63 homes.

Mike Rust, vice president of Newland Communities, which developed 4S Ranch, said now that California West is putting these lots on the market, there will be only 131 lots available in the future. These are adjacent to the two neighborhoods and Newland is looking for a builder to start developing them later in 2010.

What makes Andalusia and Monteluz different from most neighborhoods is the availability of some one-story houses, which Rust said should be particularly popular among older homebuyers.

Besides a few custom homes on large lots in Woodbridge built as single-story homes, Rust said the last time a single-story model became available was 2003-2004, when Standard Pacific built some.
“The single story sold very fast and was very well-received,” Rust said.

Building a single-story model is possible in these neighborhoods because of larger lot sizes Newland created when the entire community was designed in 2001.

California West has not yet announced a starting sales price, but that should be available by Andalusia and Monteluz’s grand openings on Jan. 30.

Rust said Newland started developing 4S Ranch in 1993, and the community should be built out within a couple more years. Homes first became available in 2001 and 4S Ranch has grown at a slightly faster rate than Newland expected.

“I think 15 years was reasonable to expect, but we’ll have that beat by a couple of years,” Rust said, explaining the community’s location, schools and close proximity to Interstate 15 and employment centers in Rancho Bernardo and Sorrento Mesa were factors.

“It’s a highly desirable location,” Rust said.

——————————————————————————-
City’s financial troubles to impact RB in 2010
By Elizabeth Marie Himchak
December 29, 2009

In 2010, Rancho Bernardans will be faced with adapting to a tighter city budget while maintaining the community’s aesthetics as Rancho Bernardo moves closer to its half-century mark.

Maintaining and improving infrastructure are among challenges facing Rancho Bernardo as the mayor and City Council work on finding long-term solutions to the city’s budget problems, said Councilman Carl DeMaio.

“The state is threatening infrastructure money on a lot of projects,” DeMaio said.

Comment by DD
2010-01-03 01:15:15

PB. what do you think of Ramona area, just behind Mt Wilson?

Comment by CA renter
2010-01-03 06:08:28

I’m not PB, but I know a few people who live in Ramona.

If you don’t have to commute, and you like horses, then Ramona might be a good fit.

Comment by DD
2010-01-03 21:41:13

Have to commute to airports, love horses. To old to ride.
Okay, thanks CA.. that settles it!

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-03 16:31:15

I generally agree with CA renter’s comments. The character of Ramona is far more rural than the western (coastal) end of SD county. I have been up there on occasion for musical performances at area churches, and find the atmosphere to be very congenial, more like a small town than the big city. On the downside, I don’t suggest you consider living there if rednecks or bikers bother you — both appear to be highly abundant.

People with whom I work (out on the coast) commute all the way from Ramona to work and back each day, but this is an hour each way, and they arrive at work very early in the morning and leave early in the afternoon to avoid traffic. I believe many who live in Ramona do so because it offers the opportunity to own property at a much lower price than what it costs to live farther west, at the possible cost of less free time. Given the large number of uses I have for my free time, I would personally go to great lengths to avoid such a long commute.

The area is scenically beautiful, located on a high plateau behind the westernmost portion of the San Diego Mountains. A downside to this natural beauty is the very high fire risk — in fact, two of the most devastating wild fires in recent San Diego history (the 2003 Cedar Fire and the 2007 Witch Creek Fire) both started in the immediate vicinity of Ramona before the Santa Anna winds subsequently drove them down the mountain sides on twenty-five mile paths of destruction.

Comment by DD
2010-01-03 21:42:48

Appreciate the added info pb!

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Comment by 2banana
2010-01-02 12:42:04

The good and the bad of the housing bust

Bucks County Courier Times (PA)

From Y2K to H1N1 - Less construction meant less revenue for municipalities and school districts. Lower prices gave open space preservationists a boost.

At the height of the construction boom 10 years ago, developers were planning to build as many as 7,300 homes in just one year in Bucks County. In 2008, the number plummeted to about 800 - the lowest number in four decades.

And the forecast does not look good.

www dot phillyburbs.com/news/local/courier_times/courier_times_news_details/article/28/2010/january/01/the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-housing-bust-1.html

 
Comment by laurel, md
2010-01-02 13:18:10

1. At New Year Eve party. One couple is starting to buy sub $40k short sale row houses in Baltimore…will put in $10k each and then get Section 8 renters…good luck with that.

2. At New Year party. One couple, 10 years ago, had bought a one week island time share for $5k. Their yearly HOA (for one week) is $800. However so many people are not paying the $800 that management is taking back the weeks, and then letting existing weekly owners get extra weeks for the HOA fee of $800. This couple purchased an extra week. The couple said that a week “purchase” right now would be about $9k. I did not want to stir up the festivities by asking why the HOA defaulting “owners” didn’t then sell their weeks use, instead of abandoning the time share for just $800. Prehaps there is no market/financing??

Comment by combotechie
2010-01-02 17:33:20

“One couple, 10 years ago, had bought a one week island time share for $5k. Their yearly HOA (for one week) is $800.”

Lol. Let’s do some numbers, shall we?

$5k X 52 weeks totals up to be $260,000 for the condo, apartment, or whatever the timeshare is. This is what the seller gets, assuming he sells all 52 weeks.

Plus…

$800 a week X 52 weeks means the seller gets an additional $41,600 a year for HOA fees, again assuming he sells all 52 weeks.

P.T. Barnum lives!

Comment by laurel, md
2010-01-02 18:31:29

Plus every once-in-a-while there is a special assessment. Three years ago it was $300 for every week.

Comment by combotechie
2010-01-02 20:31:34

So what’s the recourse if a timesharer balks on the special $300 assessment?

Oh wait!! There’s the matter of the $5,000 scam, er timeshare purchase price, AKA skin-in-the-game. If the timesharer refuses to come up with the extra bucks then his timeshare most likely gets sold out from underneath him!!!

And then the timeshare gets recycled to the next sucker, er, uh, investor who is out there somewhere patiently waiting in line for his turn.

Move over, Mister Barnum; You’ve got stiff competition.

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Comment by Muggy
2010-01-02 19:57:21

Ginormous Rat in garage + Wine + BB gun = potential loss of security deposit :grin:

Comment by combotechie
2010-01-02 20:13:20

Muggy, grind up some of your rat bait and mix it with gob of peanut butter and stick the gob in a place where other animals can’t get at it. This worked well for me.

Comment by DD
2010-01-03 01:17:38

This is another reason why I enjoy HBB so much!

 
 
 
 
Comment by DD
2010-01-03 00:29:00

The Safety Net
Living on Nothing but Food Stamps

By JASON DEPARLE and ROBERT M. GEBELOFF
Published: January 2, 2010

Ms. Bermudez, by contrast, tells what until the recession seemed a storybook tale. Raised in the Bronx by a drug-addicted mother, she landed a clerical job at a Manhattan real estate firm and heard that Fort Myers was booming. On a quick scouting trip in 2002, she got a mortgage on easy terms for a $120,000 home with three bedrooms and a two-car garage. The developer called the floor plan Camelot.

With millions of jobs lost and major industries on the ropes, America’s array of government aid — including unemployment insurance, food stamps and cash welfare — is being tested as never before. This series examines how the safety net is holding up under the worst economic crisis in decades.

“I screamed, I cried,” she said. “I took so much pride in that house.”

Jobs were as plentiful as credit. Working for two large builders, she quickly moved from clerical jobs to sales and bought an investment home. Her income soared to $180,000, and she kept the pay stubs to prove it. By the time the glut set in and she lost her job, the teaser rates on her mortgages had expired and her monthly payments soared.

She landed a few short-lived jobs as the industry imploded, exhausted her unemployment insurance and spent all her savings. But without steady work in nearly three years, she could not stay afloat. In January, the bank foreclosed on Camelot.

One morning as the eviction deadline approached, Ms. Bermudez woke up without enough food to get through the day. She got emergency supplies at a food pantry for her daughters, Tiffany, now 17, and Ashley, 4, and signed up for food stamps. “My mother lived off the government,” she said. “It wasn’t something as a proud working woman I wanted to do.”

For most of the year, she did have a $600 government check to help her care for Ashley, who has a developmental disability. But she lost it after she was hospitalized and missed an appointment to verify the child’s continued eligibility. While she is trying to get it restored, her sole income now is $320 in food stamps.

Ms. Bermudez recently answered the door in her best business clothes and handed a reporter her résumé, which she distributes by the ream. It notes she was once a “million-dollar producer” and “deals well with the unexpected.”

“I went from making $180,000 to relying on food stamps,” she said. “Without that government program, I wouldn’t be able to feed my children.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/us/03foodstamps.html?hp

 
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