January 14, 2010

In The Fire, Someone Threw A Bucket Of Grease

KGW reports from Oregon. “Many unscrupulous companies continue to target desperate homeowners desperate for an easy out. It’s a problem that’s exploded in foreclosure filled Oregon in the past year. One television infomercials says it’s no problem to be upside down on your mortgage. USMAC Law Group, the company behind that infomercial, can no longer do loan remodification work in the state of Oregon. Steve Anderson bought a house at the height of the real estate market and now he’s upside down. ‘So many companies are getting creative in this strange housing environment, but that makes it even scarier because you really don’t know what you’re getting into,’ said Anderson who chose not to remodify his loan.’”

“Instead, he’s doing his best to hang on and is now crossing his fingers that the housing market will recover quickly. ‘It’s scary, it puts you in a quandry. You can’t unload it,’ said Anderson.”

The News Register in Oregon. “The Housing Authority of Yamhill County is offering foreclosure counseling with no strings attached - including fee strings. Not all homeowners will be able to obtain a modification, and not all will be advised to even make the attempt. ‘It’s important to be realistic with people about what their options are,’ said Coordinator Megan Ramos. ‘We’ve actually had some pretty good counseling sessions with people, where we’ve decided at the end that this house just isn’t affordable for them.’”

“There are a variety of options, she noted, from selling through what is called a ’short sale’ to trying to obtain enough to pay off the remaining debt to simply signing the house over to the bank in a deed of forfeiture. ‘We talk about what each of those processes looks like,’ she said. ‘Foreclosure is something some people want avoid at all costs, but sometimes in the long term, financially, it makes more sense to let the house go.’”

The Oregonian. “The Portland-area housing market closed out 2009 with a December fizzle, an apt end for a downpour of a year in real estate. The 2009 real estate market shows what happens when you take an overbuilt housing market, a tight mortgage market and festering foreclosures, and layer on layoffs and pay cuts to homeowners.”

“‘In the fire, someone threw a bucket of grease,’ said Portland housing consultant Jerry Johnson.”

Oregon Public Broadcasting. “Oregon’s housing market has suffered over the last couple of years, but the local commercial real estate market is enduring a similar fate. Jeff Borlaug the president of the Commercial Association of Realtors, says the market has been unravelling for the last couple of years.”

“Jeff Borlaug: ‘We have seen a decrease in values of almost 40 percent from this point in time back to 2007, which is probably the biggest reversal in value since the Great Depression, even eclipsing the trouble in the early 1990’s.’”

The Mail Tribune in Oregon. “Economist John Mitchell said it may take decades before we truly understand the current recession. Mitchell said it may take years for treasury secretaries and Federal Reserve chairmen to shed light on what has happened during the recession.”

“‘We think we know what happened,’ he said. ‘But we are not going to know the full story for decades. I’m waiting for the memoirs of (Henry) Paulson, of (Ben) Bernanke, of (Timothy) Geithner and other various players. Then we’ll have some additional insights. We continue to learn things, it comes out almost on a daily basis, just in the past couple of years and we’re just getting started. It’s just like (the Battle of the Little Big Horn), we’re still learning about this battle 134 years after it happened.’”

“When it comes to credit, ‘we’re not going back to 2004, ‘05 and ‘06,’ he said. ‘It’s going to be a different world — you might have to do tough things, document income, that sort of thing.’”

The Register Guard in Oregon. “While the homebuilding industry has suffered its biggest slump in a half century, Oregon-based Hayden Homes enjoyed its best years ever in 2008 and 2009. Hayden Homes had sufficient financing to buy the foreclosed Westwind Estates subdivision in a year-end deal with LibertyBank. When the former owner of the property, Brent Anderson, ran into financial difficulty in mid-2008, he was in the process of installing the underground utilities, streets and curbs on the 29-acre property.”

“Anderson had paid $3.8 million for the property in 2006, county records show. He took out a $5.4 million construction line of credit from LibertyBank in 2007. When he defaulted in 2008, he owed $5.2 million, court records show. LibertyBank claimed the property in a sheriff’s foreclosure sale in 2009 for $3.4 million. A Hayden Homes-related limited liability company paid $2.1 million for the property on Dec. 31, county land records show.”

“Hayden Homes can cater to families of ordinary means because the company sticks within a price range — $140,000 to $250,000 — that average salaries in a given community can sustain, while many other builders followed the rapidly inflating housing prices up, up, up between 2004 and 2007. ‘Even people who really couldn’t afford (higher-priced houses), the mortgage companies could somehow get them qualified. That was a huge disservice because you end up having to short sale or foreclose, and that’s never pleasant,’ said Hayden Homes President Dennis Murphy.”

“‘You drive through a majority of our neighborhoods here in the Northwest, it’s hard to find a foreclosure sign because most people’s payment is very similar to the rental of the house — that’s a $750-a-month up to $1,500-a-month mortgage,’ he said.”

The Idaho Statesman. “Median home prices in Ada and Canyon counties remained well below their 2007 peaks of close to $250,000 for Ada and close to $170,000 for Canyon. The Valley started 2010 with more than 4,000 distressed properties on the books, according to IdahoDataProviders.”

“Meridian, once one of the hottest real estate markets in the country, saw a 19 percent decline in residential permits last year. That was at least a slowdown from 2008, when year-end statistics showed permit activity that was 94 percent below 2007. Eagle took the hardest hit in Ada County last year, with just 35 new home permits with a total value of $13 million, compared with 90 permits worth $30 million in 2008.”

‘In Canyon County, Nampa saw declines near 70 percent in permits and valuation. Caldwell saw slightly more permits but a 40 percent decline in the value of new homes - a change Caldwell building official Brett Clark attributed to the fact that builders in the area were putting up homes in the $60,000 to $70,000 range last year, compared to $170,000 to $180,000 in 2008.”

“‘Now they’re building mostly these 1,200-square-foot entry-level homes,’ Clark said.”

The Missoulian from Montana. “Smurfit-Stone Container Corp.’s recent decision to close its Frenchtown linerboard plant has resulted in 46 layoffs at Montana Rail Link. The Missoula-based railroad company announced Wednesday that it has been forced to let go some of its employees and realign its business model because of the loss of its top forest products customer.”

“The 46 MRL employees affected by Wednesday’s announcement include administrators, train crews, mechanics and railroad maintenance experts, who on average earned a $50,000 salary, said Tom Walsh, MRL president. ‘The reductions are not a reflection on any individual’s performance, but rather on our new business needs,’ Walsh said. ‘This has been a very difficult thing for our company to do, and we don’t normally have these kinds of things happen.’”

“‘But the events around us are so real and so stark and so massive, they have a significant effect on our business, and unfortunately, it’s forced us to take some serious action.’”

The Columbian in Washington. “Thanks in part to a late-year tax-credit boost, Clark County homes sales last year topped sales in 2008. Buyers also were encouraged by falling prices and historically low mortgage loan rates. Sharry McNeel, an associate of Coldwell Banker Barbara Sue Seal Properties in Vancouver, said a groundswell of move-up buyers entered the market in November, just after Congress issued a $6,500 tax credit to buyers who have owned their home for five years or longer.”

“‘That’s spurring them on, but I think people are also feeling more confident. They feel now’s the time to move before prices go up,’ McNeel said.”

“‘I think people are really feeling the crunch of the first-time buyer money,’ said Linda McClellan, president of the 1,495-member Clark County Association of Realtors. ‘If they’re going to get on the band wagon, they’ve got to get going.’”

“Others say they are warning clients that it’s also the best time to take advantage of low mortgage loan interest rates, hovering near 5 percent. ‘It’s all creating a sense that now is the best opportunity,’ said Mike Lamb, an associate broker with the Vancouver office of Windermere Real Estate/Stellar Group.”

The Vancouver Sun in Canada. “A strong wave of property sales through British Columbia’s southern and coastal property markets in December helped lift the province to a strong finish in 2009, the B.C. Real Estate Association reported. And the sales boost should give markets enough momentum to push sales growth into the first part of 2010, or until rising prices again start pushing more buyers out of the market, according to association chief economist Cameron Muir.”

“‘It’s impossible to determine how much pent-up demand is left in the market,’ Muir said, ‘but certainly the trend of the last quarter of 2009 would be indicative of a fairly strong first quarter of 2010. Beyond that, sales will likely come down from their lofty heights.’”

“Muir estimated that from peak prices in February of 2008, the monthly carrying cost of an average Metro Vancouver home declined some 27 per cent by March of 2009. However, by December, Muir said monthly carrying costs on that average Metro home were only 15 per cent lower than the peak as the recovery of prices had eaten away much of the advantage.”

“‘Benchmark prices are getting close to record levels, and as mortgage rates edge higher that’s going to have an impact on affordability,’ Muir said.”

The Can West News Service. “Vancouver’s average house price should rise by 7.2 per cent this year following substantial increases at the end of 2009, according to Royal LePage’s latest house price survey. The year-over-year price of standard condos in Vancouver rose 11.8 per cent to an average of $452,750 in the fourth quarter, Royal LePage said.”

“Detached bungalows in Vancouver changed hands for an average of $828,750 in the fourth quarter, up 11.4 per cent from a year earlier. And Vancouver’s standard two-storey homes climbed 9.6 per cent year over year to an average of $917,500 in the quarter.”

“‘The stimulus effect of low borrowing costs has contributed to a sharp rise in demand that has driven activity levels to new highs. This demand, coupled with a typical seasonal under-supply of homes for sale, should cause home prices to continue to appreciate significantly during the early months of the year,’ Royal LePage Real Estate Services president-CEO Phil Soper said.”

“Metro Vancouver homeowners desperate to rent their properties to Olympic Games visitors have scaled back their golden expectations. An abundance of Games-time accommodation rental options has forced asking prices down and increased the likelihood that many properties won’t attract any Olympic renters.”

“‘Some people thought they’d be able to go to Maui every year for the rest of their lives on the money they’d make from renting their homes,’ said Ian Hamilton, director of sports services (for) Vancouver-based Prime Strategies. ‘Now they’re facing a reality check.’”

“Hanna Pankow, who owns Lighthouse Park Bed & Breakfast in West Vancouver, said most B&Bs on the North Shore are fully booked during the Games. But she couldn’t commit to operating her two-bedroom facility during the Games until three months ago and still has one bedroom available for the entire Olympic period.”

“‘It’s my own fault,’ she said. ‘I had inquiries all summer but I turned them away and now things have really slowed down.’”

“The pace of home construction for 2009 peaked as the year was coming to an end, closing out the first year in what is expected to be a markedly different era for the sector than the period that preceded it. Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. said that housing starts were up 5. 9 per cent in December from the month before to an annual rate of 174,500 units, the most since October 2008.”

“Marco Lettieri, economist with National Bank Financial, noted that December housing starts were up almost 50 per cent from their April lows. He attributed this to low interest rates, strength in the Canadian job market, and a ‘wealth effect’ created from rising property values and stock-market gains. ‘This said, we are currently concerned over the elevated levels of inventory of new unoccupied multiple-family dwellings,’ Lettieri said in a research note. ‘This points to a current oversupply of inventories.’”

“Rising numbers for housing starts have lagged gains in the resale market, where sales levels and prices have rebounded to record highs after taking a hit during the recent recession. The faster-than-expected recovery in the housing market has some fearing a ‘bubble.’ However, in a speech in Edmonton on Monday, Bank of Canada adviser David Wolf said it is ‘premature’ to say Canada’s housing market is in a bubble.”

“‘Recent house-price increases do not appear to be out of line with the underlying supply-demand fundamentals,’ he said, hinting that the central bank is unlikely for the time being to use its policy to cool off the housing market.”

Daily Commercial News in Canada. “Wolf said the bank considers the current market to be a phenomenon based on temporary factors, such as pent-up demand from the recession, and low mortgage rates. Wolf said. ‘We see the housing market requiring vigilance, not alarm.’”

“The Canadian Real Estate Association’s chief economist, Gregory Klump, said the year-over-year increase has been ‘turbocharged’ by a combination of today’s strong market and the weak year-ago market, which skews average prices. He added that the current increase is part of natural real estate cycle. ‘One would expect that when the worst of a recession is behind us and we’ve got emergency low interest rates, that would draw buyers back to the market,’ he said.”

“Bank of Canada governor Mark Carney has warned for months that Canadians are amassing too much consumer and mortgage debt and that could be a problem for the broader economic recovery if rates rise and debt payments begin to increase for millions of Canadian households. Finance Minister Jim Flaherty has also openly discussed policy measures to cool the housing market, including raising the minimum down payment requirement above five per cent, or reducing the maximum mortgage amortizations.”

The Montreal Gazette in Canada. “One of his sillier excesses has already been reined in, with Flaherty pulling back on the maximum mortgage amortization period from his original 40 years to 35. He might now be considering whether 30 is a better number. The old standard was 25. That opens up home ownership to middle-income people in very costly markets like Vancouver or Toronto, which might be good, but it also pushes prices still higher in all markets by enabling people to get even deeper into debt.”

“Does it really make sense to facilitate the kind of debt that stretches out for so many decades that it can’t be paid off in the lifetime of a middle-aged borrower?”

“Another dubious innovation, points out economist Derek Holt at Scotia Capital Markets, was the opening up of insured mortgages to folks who are buying a home, not to live in, but to speculate on. When you have an insured mortgage, you are allowed to provide a very small down payment - just five per cent instead of the typical 20 per cent - making it far easier to buy.”

“That made sense in a program originally intended to help those of modest means buy a first home. It’s a lot harder to justify using the same program to lure amateur investors into dangerous speculation in an overheating market.”

“Canadian William White, who is believed to be the only senior economist within the world of central bankers who warned publicly about pending economic disaster before the 2008 global meltdown, said Tuesday that new ‘bubbles’ in the financial system are emerging — and could burst. White says he shares the dire concerns highlighted in this week’s edition of the influential British newsmagazine The Economist, which boldly declared on its cover: ‘Bubble Warning: Why Assets are Overvalued.’”

“For more than a decade, White and one of his senior researchers warned in BIS annual reports and at public events that the global economy was facing growing risk because of speculative bubbles, particularly in areas, such as the overpriced U.S. housing market. They took the provocative position that central bankers should play a far more active role by raising interest rates to contain speculative excesses — even during periods of low inflation.”

“Among those who dismissed White’s concerns were Alan ‘The Maestro’ Greenspan — the once-revered chairman of the U.S. Federal Reserve who held the position from 1987 to 2006 — and current chair Ben Bernanke.”

“He also disagrees with recent arguments from Bernanke, who delivered a speech earlier this month that took aim at critics like White. Bernanke said a lax regulatory regime — not central bankers’ refusal to jack up rates to cool speculative excesses — was to blame for the U.S. housing market crisis. White said problems relating to poor supervision were a huge factor in the crisis.”

“But White said bubbles grew dangerously as a result of central bankers’ willingness to continue a low-interest rate policy, which left the world awash in cheap money that in turn, fuelled the motivation to discover new and increasingly dangerous ways to invest it. ‘The idea that the interest-rate environment had no role in fostering that kind of behaviour I think is just wholly implausible,’ White said.”

The Ottawa Citizen in Canada. “One year ago, home sales in Ottawa seemed headed for a chilly stretch. But bargain mortgage rates and a rising consumer confidence that took hold in the capital earlier than in some other cities turned 2009 into the market’s hottest year yet.”

“‘A year ago, we wouldn’t have written the script that way,’ admitted Pierre de Varennes, the new president of the Ottawa Real Estate Board.”

“De Varennes believes the change came when Canadians realized that this country didn’t share in the subprime mortgage woes of the U.S., and was in better shape than most when those problems helped trigger a global credit crisis. ‘The confidence factor came back faster and stronger in Ottawa than in some other markets,’ he added, ‘but the change in the marketplace was almost timed to the same period from coast to coast.’”




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93 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2010-01-14 08:48:27

‘The confidence factor came back faster and stronger in Ottawa than in some other markets…but the change in the marketplace was almost timed to the same period from coast to coast.’

All this Canadian news goes to show how blinding manias can be. What is the probabilty that what was said above could naturally happen? And don’t these central bankers read about Canadians standing in line and overbidding for pre-construction condos?

Comment by oxide
2010-01-14 16:30:17

And didn’t these Canadians standing in line and overbidding for pre-construction condos read about Nevadans and Floridians standing in line and overbidding for pre-construction condos circa mid-2005?

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2010-01-14 18:00:22

But, but, but we’re different. It can’t happen here. We didn’t go the sub prime route. ;)

Comment by DebtinNation
2010-01-14 20:35:59

And, they’re not making any more land in Canada!

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Comment by Jim A.
2010-01-14 08:56:54

When it comes to credit, “we’re not going back to 2004, ‘05 and ‘06,” he said. “It’s going to be a different world — you might have to do tough things, document income, that sort of thing.”

–Because round up a couple of years of W2s is some sort of horrible burden that you shouldn’t have to go through before somebody HANDS YOU HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. Tough, you don’t know tough. –Sheesh.

Comment by DinOR
2010-01-14 09:13:00

Jim A,

Yeah Mitchell took the cake for dense quotes in Ben’s little round-up there.

“we’re still learning about this battle 134 years after it happened”

Duuuude, we don’t have 134 DAYS left to figure this thing out! And NO, I won’t be waiting to hear the writings of Heli-Ben or any one else for that matter!

 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2010-01-14 09:19:24

It is really tough to document income… when there isn’t any.

 
Comment by In Montana
2010-01-14 09:44:03

So what was going on before, people just buying w/o money or with lots of it but off the books?

Comment by scdave
2010-01-14 09:52:55

just buying w/o money ??

Yep….Just fill out the mortgage application and mail it in…

Comment by DinOR
2010-01-14 10:19:12

scdave,

Why waste the money on postage when you just stop by the Drive-Thru window?

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Comment by Lisa
2010-01-14 09:59:10

“When it comes to credit, “we’re not going back to 2004, ‘05 and ‘06,” he said. “It’s going to be a different world — you might have to do tough things, document income, that sort of thing.”

Sums up, in a nutshell, how insanely hopeless the gov’t programs are to “prop up” house prices.

And documenting income isn’t tough at all, even if you’re self employed like me. The tough thing is most people can’t afford bubble prices with their documented income. That’s the problem.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-01-14 11:19:18

Hey, I’m self-employed too. And here’s how tough it is to document my income:

Look at my profit and loss statement. The revenue is based on the sales I’ve made in each of the four areas I which I work. Want details on that revenue? Click on the dollar figure in any of the areas, and you’ll get a list of transactions. Click on one of those, and you’ll get the original invoice, which includes details on whether it’s been paid or if it’s still in accounts receivable.

And that was so easy that even this graphic designer and photographer can do it.

 
Comment by pismoclam
2010-01-14 16:05:51

Hey hey, ho ho, Let’s get reinstate the Nehimahea loan program.

 
Comment by DebtinNation
2010-01-14 23:10:07

People need to remember that loans are to pay for something that they can afford over time; not to buy something that they can’t pay back on. It seems like such a simple concept, I know, but amazing how many people think a loan is for something they can’t afford otherwise.

 
 
Comment by Neil
2010-01-14 14:33:17

Tough, you don’t know tough. –Sheesh.

Exactly. Think of what will happen when FHA finally cuts the bloody losses. I expect them to require much larger down payments. (Oh… like 3%, maybe 4%). I also expect Fannie and Freddie to step up their critieria.

Then again, I’ve been saying this for years and I’ve been waiting. I never imagined FHA would have criteria only a quarter notch above sub-prime.

Lightsaber

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2010-01-14 09:24:13

“Instead, he’s doing his best to hang on and is now crossing his fingers that the housing market will recover quickly. ‘It’s scary, it puts you in a quandry. You can’t unload it,’ said Anderson.”

The other alternative? Spend all your savings and retirement and get a 2nd and 3rd PT job to keep going for 6-12 months. And in the end, you will still lose it.

Comment by DinOR
2010-01-14 09:50:11

2banana,

I went back to follow the link and no where did it state that Steve Anderson lost his job, mom got sick or the mule died? I could be wrong but until someone shows me otherwise this is just a guy that bought at peak and thought he’d try his hand at getting a principle reduction.

He only complained of being under water ( not that his hours or pay got cut )

And what’s with the “Into the fire’ someone threw a bucket of grease”? What’s next Jerry, Throw momma’ from the train? Yeah, a year ago he was spewing that a recovery for PDX was just around the corner.

Comment by DennisN
2010-01-14 10:31:31

Mule died? Don’t you mean “the rabbit died”?

Comment by DinOR
2010-01-14 11:10:37

DennisN,

LOL! Of course… that’s what I meant. Yeah, Jerry Johnson gets paid the big bucks to hold seminars and conf’s to instill false hope into builders and bankers that line up to hear his dribble here in PDX.

He refuses to post on the local PDX Blog to defend his ridiculous assertions so I guess he gets what he deserves.

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Comment by Mike in Miami
2010-01-14 10:07:27

Yes you can! Unload it to the bank/fool that loaned you the money. I believe you signed a document that said something like “either pay up or else we will take the house”.
Well Anderson, its time for the “or else” part of the contract you signed. Nothing illegal, nothing immoral, just good ole American business. The bank sold you an option on the house and failed to price it correctly, not your fault.

Comment by Jim A.
2010-01-14 11:30:43

Keep in mind, Mike in Miami, that Florida (like my state, Maryland) is a recourse state. The lender is within their rights to say “Thank you for the house, we’ve sold it at the current market and netted $x. Now where’s THE REST of our money?” Now historicly, most banks haven’t bothered because people who lost their houses to foreclosure rarely had enough in assets to be worth going to court for. But with borrowers preparing to walk away at unpredecented rates, I wouldn’t rely upon lenders to behave in their historic manner either.

Comment by DinOR
2010-01-14 12:22:04

Jim A,

Ewwww, interesting, can’t say as I saw that coming? Henry Blodgett was talking about it this morning and I don’t believe that angle was discussed.

But wasn’t there some kind of “Don’t 1099 me bro’ ” amendment passed by GWB in his final days in office? Anyone recall how that apply here?

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Comment by DinOR
2010-01-14 12:24:33

applies?

would… apply?

( Anything? )

 
Comment by Jim A.
2010-01-14 12:37:11

Hey, if they get their money out of you, there IS no 1099.

 
Comment by DennisN
2010-01-14 13:56:24

A 1099 would create a tax lien, which IIUC is not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Just having a judgment against you from a bank probably would be dischargeable.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2010-01-14 13:59:48

Is there a statute of limitations on a judgment? I wonder if we will read about these walkers ten years from now living like my scumbag former nephew-in-law who works under the table at odd temporary jobs to stay one step ahead of the child support collector.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2010-01-14 19:20:59

Yeah DennisN, but that tax liability would be for approximately 1/3 as much.

 
 
Comment by oxide
2010-01-14 14:00:54

Also, historically the banks didn’t need to invoke recourse since the firesale value of the house itself and the 20% cash down — remember that? — were usually enough to cover the mortgage amount. (Did houses ever sell for less than 80% of the mortgage, barring some huge defect?)

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Comment by DinOR
2010-01-14 15:03:56

oxide,

Also note how the two seemed to work together? But putting a hundred K of your own money into a ‘deal’ would sure take the fun out of flipping now wouldn’t it.

Outside of company town plant/mill closures, I can’t think of a time when 20% downsides were the norm?

 
Comment by oxide
2010-01-14 20:56:30

20% down did a few things:

1. Discourage the buyer from walking.
2. Give the bank a buffer in case there is a foreclosure.
3. Keep prices reasonable. Bidding wars suddenly become a lot less fun if you have to pony up more hard cash with each bid (cash you likely don’t have).
4. Lower demand only to serious buyers, which kept prices low.

4 Corollary. [and this I think is the most subtle but probably a huge part of the current crisis] Only serious and responsible buyers took the plunge, since only serious and responsible buyers were conscientious enough to put together that down payment. It was that 20% down payment which earned buyers the reputation of being dependable, and which earned mortgages the investment rating of “safe.”

And those IDIOT mortgage brokers assumed that ALL buyers, including subprime/second home/flippers, would suddenly act like our parents and grandparents and handed out mortgages and calculated risk accordingly.* Meanwhile, enough specuvestors had no intention of doing anything of the sort.

————-
*this is why I give a -few- FB’s a little slack for not quite knowing what they were getting into. Bankers had been approving mortages for decades, to mom and dad, and that turned out OK. If Mr. Banker Man says I can do it, well, he must know, right? Little did the FB’s realize that MB’s were not Jimmy Stewart helping the good citizens of Bedford Falls. Those MB’s were handsomely paid to to breach the good faith and screw over the trusting FB with a ninja.

 
Comment by DebtinNation
2010-01-14 23:18:09

Well put. And it’s especially reason 3 and 4 that did them in — prices got so out of hand that even with 20% down (again, how novel), a lot of places are still underwater.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-01-16 02:00:27

Oxide,

You are exactly right on every point you posted.

If they want to prevent another “unforeseeable foreclosure crisis,” all they have to do is require 20-30% down. Problem solved.

 
 
Comment by pismoclam
2010-01-14 16:10:24

The IRS should also go after those people who lose their homes. We can give the $ to the 30 mil poor down trodden illegal aliens who are here.

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Comment by 2banana
2010-01-14 09:27:33

“Detached bungalows in Vancouver changed hands for an average of $828,750 in the fourth quarter, up 11.4 per cent from a year earlier. And Vancouver’s standard two-storey homes climbed 9.6 per cent year over year to an average of $917,500 in the quarter.”

OMG! No bubble here - keep moving. We are all getting rich on our homes. Everyone wants to live here. And Canadian banks are the safest in the world!

Comment by Al
2010-01-14 09:31:05

“And Canadian banks are the safest in the world!”

They still are. CMHC is holding all the high risk mortgages. Our government bailout is already baked in.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-01-14 09:50:30

“Detached bungalows in Vancouver changed hands for an average of $828,750″

What’s Canadian slang for: KA-BOOM!

BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! (fpss™)

 
Comment by Jimmy Jazz
2010-01-14 10:37:10

Well, it “really is different” in Vancouver, primarily because of tons of expat Hong Kong and other Chinese money. Their market was already out of sight even before the boom in the rest of Canada.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2010-01-14 18:04:25

Sounds like what happened to San Francisco and the Peninsula. The Asians are going to save us.

Comment by CA renter
2010-01-16 02:01:41

Same here in San Diego. Lots and lots of Chinese.

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Comment by SMF
2010-01-14 11:01:38

‘What we’ve got here, is FAILURE to communicate. Some men you just can’t reach…’

Interesting how all these regional bubbles follow the same path, but most people just can’t recognize the ones happening around them! All you need to know that there is a bubble in Vancouver is by looking at these average prices.

I even had a conversation with a co-worker yesterday, who recognized that there was a bubble in the US, telling me how the same thing in China was ‘different’.

Comment by llcarlos
2010-01-14 18:03:09

The people of Vancouver are still making their mortgage payments.

 
 
 
Comment by Al
2010-01-14 09:29:34

“‘The idea that the interest-rate environment had no role in fostering that kind of behaviour I think is just wholly implausible,’ White said.”

William White for Prime Minister.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-01-14 09:57:42

Mr. White sure makes a lot more sense than these chowderheads, whom we met in the original post:

“Metro Vancouver homeowners desperate to rent their properties to Olympic Games visitors have scaled back their golden expectations. An abundance of Games-time accommodation rental options has forced asking prices down and increased the likelihood that many properties won’t attract any Olympic renters.”

Comment by DinOR
2010-01-14 10:22:24

Slim,

Going back to my “When was the last time any of you had a ‘normal’ non-bubble infested day?” At what point did The Olympics become an “upscale” star-studded/celebrity event?

Could the avg. family afford to go and see a few of the competitions and stay a couple of days? NOT without your Visa Card!

Comment by mugsy
2010-01-14 10:43:10

Aren’t the olympic peanut salesmen guaranteed lifetime employment? Hey, it’s Canada.

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Comment by SDGreg
2010-01-14 22:39:45

“When was the last time any of you had a ‘normal’ non-bubble infested day?”

Easily more than a decade. There will be such a long gap between pre-bubble and post-bubble that the two will be very, very different. I wonder how many have a simmering anger over what’s happened over the last decade or longer.

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Comment by Jim A.
2010-01-14 19:22:19

Well in the DC area we had plenty of insanely wishful craigslist ads for Obama’s nomination.

 
 
 
Comment by scdave
2010-01-14 09:40:13

and we don’t normally have these kinds of things happen.’” “‘But the events around us are so real and so stark and so massive, they have a significant effect on our business ??

I actually looked up the definition of “Stark” to understand its full meaning; “Unambiguous and Harsh”
Now add to that “real” and “massive”…Green shoots my butt….Green shoots for government maybe…

wmbz & Pbear…You guys are two of the data miners here on the board…Find us some articles with private sector hiring in some meaningful way…Are there any ?

Comment by wmbz
2010-01-14 10:02:59

“Find us some articles with private sector hiring in some meaningful way…Are there any” ?

That’s a tough one, I can’t find any info. regarding any meaningful private sector hiring. Perhaps because there isn’t any!

PBear covers more ground than I do, we’ll have to wait and see what he says.

Comment by SaladSD
2010-01-14 14:18:09

Ask Mr. SRSS, he can pull some out of his, ummm… hat.

 
 
 
Comment by In Montana
2010-01-14 09:42:55

“Smurfit-Stone Container Corp.’s recent decision to close its Frenchtown linerboard plant has resulted in 46 layoffs at Montana Rail Link.”

Just FYI, MRL’s affiliate or parent co. Washington Corp also announced a wage freeze Tuesday.

Comment by wmbz
2010-01-14 10:08:28

“Smurfit-Stone Container Corp.’s

Boy, they have been on a steady cut back for over a year now.

Comment by The_Overdog
2010-01-14 10:12:31

They’ve cut back so much, now their company is only 3 apples high.

Comment by oxide
2010-01-14 10:42:24

+1 was just thinking that

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Comment by DennisN
2010-01-14 10:41:22

They are all over the country now - they bought out National Can Co. in Santa Clara CA a decade ago. When big conglomerates have to cut back, it’s easier to just close down whole locations.

 
 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2010-01-14 10:37:20

“Economist John Mitchell said it may take decades before we truly understand the current recession…I’m waiting for the memoirs of (Henry) Paulson, of (Ben) Bernanke, of (Timothy) Geithner and other various players.”

All of them will write memoirs about the financial crisis. None is likely to mention the preceding years of Americans, collectively, spending 6 percent more than they earned while serving as the world’s buyer of last resort.

The timing of the financial crisis they may be able to explain. But the recession was inevitable, and would have caused a financial crisis at some point no matter what.

Comment by pismoclam
2010-01-14 23:20:56

It was caused in 1997 (Clinton) by Rubin, Greenspan, Summers,Geitner, and Levitt. They wouldn’t inact controls on CDOs proposed by Berkley Born. In fact Rubin (SEC Treasury) didn’t even know what they were. Opps, here comes LTC.

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2010-01-14 10:44:44

Meridian, once one of the hottest real estate markets in the country, saw a 19 percent decline in residential permits last year. That was at least a slowdown from 2008, when year-end statistics showed permit activity that was 94 percent below 2007. Eagle took the hardest hit in Ada County last year, with just 35 new home permits with a total value of $13 million, compared with 90 permits worth $30 million in 2008.

I though Meridian was going to get a chop back when I bought in 2006. That’s why I made sure to buy with a Boise address - I’m thinking it will always be a more secure city. Years ago Meridian was principally known for small dairy farms.

The Statesman article didn’t mention the town of Star for some odd reason. IIUC Star is the most hard-hit town in the area, not Eagle.

Comment by DennisN
2010-01-14 11:04:02

Any comments on my thesis that it’s safer to buy closer to a major city, and that the risk rises the farther away you look?

Boise’s neighbors are Eagle and Meridian, then farther away are Kuna and Nampa, and even farther away is Caldwell. That appears to track the real estate bust.

 
Comment by SMF
2010-01-14 11:41:48

“once one of the hottest real estate markets in the country”

Didn’t that phrase apply to ALL RE markets in the last few years?

 
 
Comment by mugsy
2010-01-14 10:44:54

“‘In the fire, someone threw a bucket of grease,’ said Portland housing consultant Jerry Johnson.”

That may be the best “passive” sentence I’ve ever seen!

Comment by DennisN
2010-01-14 10:59:01

He certainly failed the Strunk & White test! ;)

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-01-14 11:21:20

Yeah, especially Rule #13. (Omit needless words.)

 
 
Comment by oxide
2010-01-14 11:21:41

Technically it’s not passive voice. Technically it’s a usage problem with “in” vs. “into.” Change to “into” and that solves the misplaced modifier.

[/English teacher parents]

Comment by DennisN
2010-01-14 12:05:14

Technically it’s “Yoda voice”. :)

Comment by lavi d
2010-01-14 13:21:35

Change to “into” and that solves the misplaced modifier.

Where’s the misplaced modifier if the person who threw the grease was actually “in the fire”?

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-14 12:09:24

In the fire, someone threw a bucket of grease.
Into the fire, someone threw a bucket of grease.

In the morning, someone threw a bucket of grease.
Into the morning, someone threw a bucket of grease.

Does the word “in” have more than one definition?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-01-14 14:46:05

It depends what the meaning of the word “in” is.

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Comment by pismoclam
2010-01-14 16:18:33

‘What’s the meaning of is is.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-14 16:16:55

Here is a clarifying example:

“Someone threw a bucket of greasy banksters into the fire.”

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2010-01-14 18:07:46

A+ for your example PB.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by mugsy
2010-01-14 10:47:00

‘It’s going to be a different world — you might have to do tough things, document income, that sort of thing.’”

Yeah right. And then what? W-2’s? You people are crazy!

Comment by DinOR
2010-01-14 11:27:08

mugsy,

Speaking of crazy?

http://www.katu.com/news/weird/81508807.html

“Skinniest house in NYC sells for $2.1 mil”

Although it had been listed for as much as 2.7 mil. that’s still a pretty fancy price for a home that’s only 9′ wide? Then again, they claim Margaret Mead once lived there!

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-14 12:45:08

9 feet? $2.1M ?
Why has nobody bothered to break that record?

A few months ago that house was in the news and, having absolutely nothing better to do, I looked it up on Google Maps and used Street View.

Browse that and nearby streets and there are several of those skinny houses. One is directly across the street from that one as well as another further down the block, so they’re not exactly rare.. Looks like alleys between older large buildings got filled in.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2010-01-14 14:42:06

If you should happen to visit that house I would recommend eating at Little Owl restaurant on Bedford. The halibut with spinach mashed potatoes was amazing.

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Comment by Joe
2010-01-15 00:54:20

Little Owl ROCKS. Their pork chop is awesome too.

 
 
 
Comment by Dave of the North
2010-01-14 12:59:38

And the new owner wants to rent it out at $ 10,000/month. That’s not likely to cover PITI is it?

Comment by DinOR
2010-01-14 14:02:10

The article actually said it had been the alley in between before someone filled w/ a house long ago.

I just threw it, in (to) a fire of uh… grease bucket or something for all our NYC posters out there. In short, we get it! It’s still ridiculous there. Not sure about the floorplan ( but how much of one could there be? )

Hey everybody! I scored the teeniest house in the Village! Stop by and rub elbows sometime. Cuzz’ what else could you do?

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Comment by Blue Skye
2010-01-14 13:26:10

“De Varennes believes the change came when Canadians realized that this country didn’t share in the subprime mortgage woes of the U.S”

They are in for a big surprise! A 25 year mortgage (or 30+) with 5% down and an adjustable rate taken out at generational low rates is nothing other than subprime.

I heard earlier in the week that Vancouver was having a heat wave and all the snow was melting. Supposedly they are “stockpiling” snow at the top of the mountain.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Comment by Al
2010-01-14 14:03:14

“A 25 year mortgage (or 30+) with 5% down and an adjustable rate taken out at generational low rates is nothing other than subprime.”

35 year ams the most common, with a 1-5 year term. 35 year am, at the beginning is almost an IO. The 1-5 year term make it a teaser rate if there is a spike. But no, no actual subprime. Whew.

 
 
Comment by Angus
2010-01-14 13:33:41

Kudos to the Hayden Homes folks in Oregon. Looks like they kept their powder dry, pounced, and are now profiting handsomely.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-14 16:15:45

Speaking of fires and buckets of grease, the bankster inquisition is heating up to a nice hot temperature for roasting.

The Financial Times
Deposits regulator points finger at Fed
By Tom Braithwaite in Washington

Published: January 14 2010 14:59 | Last updated: January 14 2010 14:59

The US regulator that insures depositors against bank failures laid much of the blame for the financial crisis at the door of the Federal Reserve on Thursday.

Sheila Bair, chairman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, told an inquiry that “much of the crisis may have been prevented” if the Fed had not waited seven years to put in tough rules to regulate subprime mortgage lending.

The typically forthright written testimony from Ms Bair to the second day of hearings held by the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission pits one of the most politically powerful regulators against one of the weakest. The Fed is under attack on multiple fronts in Congress with attempts to conduct sweeping audits of the central bank and remove much of its regulatory role.

Phil Angelides, chairman of the commission set up by Congress to explore the causes of the financial crisis, identified the failure to take an early tough line on mortgage lending as a “critical decision point”.

“Yes, looking back, I think if we had had some good strong constraints at that time, just simple standards like . . . you’ve got to document income and make sure they can repay the loan . . . we could have avoided a lot of this,” said Ms Bair.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-14 16:55:52

Glad California has representation on the Congressional commission. California took the brunt of the financial crisis, while Wall Street was showered with bail. Hopefully Angiledes will initiate a discussion of the punitive consequences of the Fed’s bailout decisions for California’s economy.

Comment by SDGreg
2010-01-14 21:05:54

The initial huge damage to California was done by the energy traders, the Enrons. California was running a large budget surplus prior to that time. That this massive theft went without investigation and unpunished opened the door to the much greater swindles that followed.

Hopefully this investigation will lay the ground work for the necessary, overdue punishment of the financial thieves.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-14 21:31:56

“Hopefully this investigation will lay the ground work for the necessary, overdue punishment of the financial thieves.”

Your optimism is admirable. My pessimism suggests the current discussions of financial reform are merely a Washingtonian Grand Kabuki Dance whose purpose is to opiate the masses until the banking panic ends.

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Comment by SDGreg
2010-01-14 22:19:18

I only said “I hope”. My expectations are nothing will change, few will be punished, and those few that are won’t be punished nearly enough. My expectations with the prior administration would have been far lower. The best case then would have been only modest rewards for the guilty.

 
 
Comment by ahansen
2010-01-15 02:03:08

Cruz Bustamonte, Grey Davis’s Lt. Gov was hot on a federal lawsuit against Enron in 2003. Even filed in district court. But for some reason, after Ahnode met with Kenny Lay and Mikey Milken at the Century Plaza that May, the CRC decided to launch a recall effort to get rid of Davis. Poor Daryl Issa ended up being the party’s money stooge, and lo and behold, the Governator was elected!

Oh. And the lawsuit was quietly dropped when he took office.
Funny how that worked.

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Comment by SDGreg
2010-01-14 18:44:39

“Sheila Bair, chairman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, told an inquiry that “much of the crisis may have been prevented” if the Fed had not waited seven years to put in tough rules to regulate subprime mortgage lending.”

How about any rules? The current rules hardly seem tough.

“Yes, looking back, I think if we had had some good strong constraints at that time, just simple standards like . . . you’ve got to document income and make sure they can repay the loan . . . we could have avoided a lot of this,” said Ms Bair.”

There it is, rearing it’s ugly head again, that thing about documenting income. That must be really hard for financial masters to do.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-14 21:33:35

“There it is, rearing it’s ugly head again, that thing about documenting income. That must be really hard for financial masters to do.”

And it must be really difficult for the banking regulators at the Fed (you know — the ones who Ben Bernanke wants to become the monopoly fox in the chicken coup regulator) to notice when no doc loans are being made to people with no means to repay them.

 
 
 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2010-01-14 16:24:25

Well bummer, I guess Alaska doesn’t warrant an honorable mention when we cover the Northwest anymore.

:-(

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2010-01-14 18:10:40

Hang in there NSO. Ben may cover Alaska and Hawaii in one of his postings.

Comment by DebtinNation
2010-01-14 23:32:48

I think a housing bubble in Alaska would be great. A literal dome to keep out all the cold and snow.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-14 21:30:13

Doesn’t sound much different there, as the financial panic has wrecked credit markets pretty much everywhere on the planet where fiat money is exchanged.

Anchorage home prices continue 2-year slide

SECOND YEAR: Prices unlikely to go up; faster sales in “healthy” market.

By ELIZABETH BLUEMINK
ebluemink@adn.com

Published: January 7th, 2010 04:15 PM
Last Modified: January 7th, 2010 04:15 PM

Anchorage house prices decreased slightly in 2009, for the second year in a row.

The price decrease of 2.2 percent was the biggest in two decades but it was much smaller than the U.S. average price decline of 10 percent last year, statistics show.

“We have a lot to be grateful for,” said Roger Morris, a sales manager for Prudential Jack White, a local real estate firm. He unveiled the year-end housing statistics at an Anchorage Board of Realtors luncheon Wednesday.

Morris predicted that Anchorage housing prices will be flat this year. It’s possible that prices will decrease very slightly, but they won’t increase, he said. He said the local housing market remains healthy, overall, but it will face some additional challenges this year — an increase in foreclosures as more people get in trouble with their loans, for example.

Sellers might consider this bad news. But the silver lining is that for buyers local housing has become more affordable, said Neal Fried, a state economist who also spoke at the luncheon.

While the number of house sales declined last year — by 2.7 percent — on average houses sold faster than they did last year, reversing the trend of longer “days on market” in the previous three years. The average time a single-family house sat on the market before selling last year was 67 days, compared with 71 days in 2008, according to data from the Alaska Multiple Listing Service Inc. On the other hand, houses are still taking longer to sell than they did in the hot Anchorage real estate market of a few years ago.

 
 
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