Bits Bucket For January 23, 2010
Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here. Please visit the HBB Forum.
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here. Please visit the HBB Forum.
Older Women Are So Reasonable
AFTER BEING MARRIED FOR 44 YEARS, I TOOK A CAREFUL LOOK AT MY WIFE ONE DAY AND SAID, ‘44 YEARS AGO WE HAD A CHEAP APARTMENT, A CHEAP CAR, SLEPT ON A SOFA BED AND WATCHED A 10-INCH BLACK AND WHITE TV, BUT I GOT TO SLEEP EVERY NIGHT WITH A HOT 25-YEAR-OLD GIRL”.
NOW I HAVE A$500,000 HOME, A $45,000.00 CAR, NICE BIG BED AND PLASMA SCREEN TV, BUT I’M SLEEPING WITH A 65-YEAR-OLD WOMAN. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU’RE NOT HOLDING UP YOUR SIDE OF THINGS.’
MY WIFE IS A VERY REASONABLE WOMAN. SHE TOLD ME TO GO OUT AND FIND A HOT 25-YEAR-OLD GIRL AND SHE WOULD MAKE SURE THAT I WOULD ONCE AGAIN BE LIVING IN A CHEAP APARTMENT, DRIVING A CHEAP CAR, SLEEPING ON A SOFA BED AND WATCHING A 10-INCH BLACK AND WHITE TV.
AREN’T OLDER WOMEN GREAT? THEY REALLY KNOW HOW TO SOLVE YOUR MID-LIFE CRISES.
wmbz,
Very funny.
“cheaper to keep her”
Meeeeeeeeeeeeoooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwww:
A Marine no less…Surprise! Surprise! Surprise! Mr. Carter… er, Mr. Phillis
Probably has decorated honors in “special weapons” handling.
BEYOND THE BOARDROOM:
Billboards expose Oracle executive’s affair
Co-President Charles Phillips, confronted with three-story-tall evidence, confesses.
By Jessica Guynn January 23, 2010 LA Times
“Ellison recruited Phillips, a former Marine with degrees in business and law and a reputation as a star Wall Street analyst, in 2003. Phillips quickly rose through the ranks, emerging as the public face of the technology giant and a contender to succeed Ellison.”
“…after his former mistress plastered romantic pictures of the two of them on giant billboards in three major cities.”
You missed one! He’s also a member of Obama’s Economic Recovery Advisory Board. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
This dude sure gets around, in more ways that one!
How sordid - being an Obama economic advisor, that is.
There’s no such thing as a “former Marine.”
urrrah!
“three-story tall evidence” LOL!
Yeah, that’d be a bit to overcome now wouldn’t it?
I guess all you’d really need to replace Larry E. is to be as outrageous an @$$hole as ‘he’ was? You know, I’ve -never- heard a former employee… speak highly of him and his ground breaking renegade tactics go a long way toward explaining ‘why’ we’re at ‘where’ we’re at!
His brazen manner have been tried and translated by scores of wannabe’s and it always ends up badly. Worked out for ‘Larry’ though?
Many MANY people get lucky in life and business and I’ve found it really has nothing to do with their personality and more times than you would think, with their ability either.
My older Brazilian ex girlfriend sent me the same anecdote recently!
Yeah well he’s no 25-year-old hottie anymore either.
+12 billion, oxide.
The Government’s Endless Appetite for Spending
“Since they have been in full control of the federal purse strings, Democrats have spent a lot of money and got the country into a lot of debt. Hence the two consecutive increases of the debt limit in 3 months. And they aren’t the only ones. According to the Office of Management and Budget, the federal debt limit has been increased 98 times since 1940—more than once a year on average. Under President George W. Bush alone, Republicans voted to raise the debt limit by more than $6.4 trillion”
“Namely, the federal government’s endless appetite for spending.”
http://reason.com/archives/2010/01/21/the-governments-endless-appeti
There, both sides are guilty. IMO it will never stop until we tie the funding for “their” retirement funds to a balanced budget amendment. No balanced budget, no funds for the retirement of our elite political class the next year. If we don’t incentivize them to reach this goal, they will never truthfully try. I would love to hear the squealing if something like this were ever passed.
“There, both sides are guilty.”
So you’re prepared to repudiate pandering by John Boner and Mitch McConnell the transvestite?
Leave it to Excreter to continue the hot air partisanship of a blind fool.
+1
Right on, Bill!
Look at the girls lining up. Cute.
Well if ‘that’ is the case, give me a mop and some nylons. This is just about the only forum of like-minded people to myself I know of.
We shouldn’t be forced to have to sift thru the politico BS to get to the wheat. Trying to get to the bottom of the Securitzation/MBS Debacle is difficult enough without adding additional layers of partisanship.
We had some break through moments yesterday but the quickest way to derail the adult discussion is -insisting- you know where all the bodies are buried and ‘who’ put them there.
Ex,
No, its your job to do that. I find it interesting that anyone should repudiate a politician that panders since that is their most basic trait..
What I was hoping to get was a reply to my idea about “incentivizing” the Congress to be less profligate in their spending.
We the people have to come up with a way to take control of this government because they’re spending the money of our children’s children.
” “incentivizing” the Congress to be less profligate in their SPENDING!” ( emphasis mine )
Here Here! There’s an idea, each member gets a Report Card based on the amount of money they were able to ‘trim’ from the budget in clear understandable English.
Of ‘course’ they need to spend money, in ways that’s how things get done. But if they are throwing money around, they’d best be prepared to be held to a higher standard and show how they got a bang for those bucks.
Yes we have to come up with a way. What do you want to cut?
You go first…..
Medicare?, social security? the military? (don’t bother with this one if your writing from a “protected position”)
All the winners of the Golden Fleece award? We’re all for that but that’s a rounding error. The biggies are aforementioned.
I’ll try……
Nationalize the healthcare system forcing doctors/pharma/ device makers to take “reasonable” rates and decide how much you want to spend and which procedures make the cut….
means test social security….. Start winding down the military industrial complex (whoops, still in my protected position,…maybe i should send that part of the post when i’m flying over the Atlantic)
JDinCT
I agree with all three and I think all three will probably happen one way or another.
Here’s your chance to live in a 678 square foot condo in “The Mantra” in beautiful Vancouver, BC, Canada:
Be smart and buy one for just $560K
Or you can just throw your money away renting one for $1600/month
Each condo is named after a popular Vancouver RE mantra, such as:
“We’re running out of land”
“All the rich people in the world will move here after the Olympics”
“We’re a world class city”
“Canada doesn’t have subprime so prices can’t go down”
Buy now before interest rates go up!
678 square foot condo, for $560,000
Someone made some money, nonetheless, so well the new buyer…in about 22 years
or maybe his grandkids can cash in when we’ve all left the scene.
They turned these into apartments when the market crashed. Their hoping prices were at least that much. Last I heard they were still very vacant.
http://www.citycenterofcitynorth.com/html/live/luxuryrentals.html
Who cares? Deficits don’t matter, after all it’s ‘our’ debt, we’ll just buy it ourselves! I have said it before, I’ll say it again, as bad as Bush was in the monetary arena(and he was horrible), Barry will end up making him look like Hetty Green! So please tell me again how the ‘recession’ is over?
Debt Burden Now Rests More on U.S. Shoulders.
THE United States government borrowed more money than ever before in 2009, but its largest lender — China — sharply reduced the amount it was willing to lend.
The United States Treasury estimated this week that during the first 11 months of last year China raised its holdings of Treasury securities by just $62 billion. That was less than 5 percent of the money the Treasury had to raise.
That raised its holdings to $790 billion, leaving it the largest foreign holder of Treasury securities — Japan is second at $757 billion and Britain a distant third at $278 billion. But China’s holdings at the end of November were lower than they were at the end of July.
Not since 2001, when China was still a relatively minor investor in Treasury securities, had the country shown a decline in holdings over a six-month period.
“But China’s holdings at the end of November were lower than they were at the end of July.”
Maybe that’s because the world’s demand for Chinese products (and everyone else’s products) has declined, hence China’s income is reduced and China now is forced to spend the money it used to save.
BTW, port traffic in Los Angeles/Long Beach harbor (the gateway to Asia) is down 25%.
I had a guy helping me yesterday who told me he had just been laid off by the BNSF railroad. I told him I thought RR workers never got laid off. He said there were 3000 people let go at his company.
I talked to a Railroad engineer in Sarnia, Ontario over Christmas who says the rides are cut back to about a third. He’s not “laid off”, just sits at home most days without pay.
Just got word yesterday from a nephew of mine, the second in my extended family to get layed off in construction/management. He also mentioned to me that a fellow he knows with Georgia Southern RR has been given termination notice.
Wait till the greenies get coal restrictions and just see how many jobs are gone in the railroad business.I guess we can haul more crap from china to people in the heartland.
I think Warren is going to have rechargeable Duracell Locomotive’s by 2014
GALESBURGdotcom:
“Although the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp. reported Jan. 21 plans to reduce its workforce by about 2,500 employees during the first quarter of 2009 — across its entire system — a BNSF spokesman said Friday that most of the layoffs have already taken place. The railroad has about 41,000 employees.
Steve Forsberg said about 2,000 employees have been laid off, leaving about 500 to be furloughed by the end of the first quarter. He said layoffs began late last year. He said the company has “been reluctant to give specific local numbers” because of the seniority system within the union crafts.
What makes breaking the numbers down difficult, Forsberg said, is that an employee in another area given a lay-off notice can “bump” an employee with less seniority. For instance, an employee based in Nebraska could bump someone in Galesburg, meaning a local employee would be out of work, but the total employment numbers would not change.
By the same token, a Galesburg employee who is laid off could take the same action and could end up continuing to work somewhere else on the BNSF system.
“Theoretically, if we furloughed 10 in one local and 10 employees from another local came in and bumped 10 less-senior employees, you would have 20” (local employees out of work),” Forsberg said.”
Here is the real face of Warren, the American hero, an American “oligarkh”:
http://blogs.reuters.com/rolfe-winkler/2010/01/21/buffett-lets-public-down/?source=patrick.net
All I continue to see is layoffs…No hiring in any significant way…Its going to get worse before it gets better…
BNSF has hundreds, thousands? of container cars idled in mid MT. Just started moving them out supposedly
“He said there were 3,000 people let go at his company”
( Just being honest here? ) Make that Point# 2,293 “I” was WRONG about The Bubble! Wouldn’t you have thought they’d have been at least somewhat sheltered by this thing?
That they’d have fared better than say the OTR Trucking Industry or..? Guess it didn’t matter, add another 3k corpses to the fire! To be truthful, not ‘everyone’ on the RR drives spikes and lays ties. So there ‘may’ have been room to cut, but seriously, how much Chinese-maid fru-fru stuff could they have been hauling? Wrong again.
So there ‘may’ have been room to cut, but seriously, how much Chinese-maid fru-fru stuff could they have been hauling?
We’re importing Chinese maids now? That won’t sit well with the 24 million Chinese men who have no hope of a mate, given the selective abortions and infanticides practiced against female babies under China’s “one child” policy.
People always seem to think that government workers and RR employees can’t be laid off.
They think the same way about the medical field.
Got news for you folks, nobody is safe.
I just a had friend who spent a YEAR looking for a job before just recently landing one. And he has impeccable credentials.
i heard some economist say one day that if just china stopped buying US treasuries the interest rates would (i say should) spike to around 12%.
Perhaps, unless another market (401Ks?) can be “persuaded” to take up the slack.
Maybe the rubes who flooded the bond market with blind panic money in 2009 will keep doing so indefinitely?
Capital Markets
Bond Fund Bubble
Marilyn Cohen, 01.21.10, 06:20 PM EST
Forbes Magazine dated February 08, 2010
U.S. equity funds lost $35 billion in 2009, versus $421 billion going into bond funds. There’s a lot of unsophisticated money in bonds now that could flee at the first sign of trouble.
In 2009 investors were warned about bubbles: a bubble in Treasuries, a gold bubble and, finally, warnings of a rapidly expanding bubble in stocks. But I’m here to tell you about a monster bond mutual fund bubble forming. It’s brought to us by the Federal Reserve’s 0% interest rate policy. Whether the flood into bond funds of all types was an intended consequence or not, it’s now a flood that could go just as quickly the other way.
Investors couldn’t tolerate, let alone live off, the substandard money market rates and CD yields. These paltry rates on CDs tell me that the banks don’t need our money. They’re still not lending.
The stampede into bond funds wasn’t just about low short-term interest rates; it was a primal scream by individuals saying, “I can’t take any more losses in the stock market, so get me into something safe!” The bond fund floodgates opened wide to accommodate them.
Trim Tabs Research tells us that a net $35 billion was pulled from U.S. equity funds in 2009, whereas $421 billion went into bond funds. It’s simply astonishing. There is a lot of unsophisticated money in bonds now, and I’m not sure investors understand how miserable things can get when the low interest rate party ends.
Bond funds across all sectors are at risk. Long-term Treasury funds like Vanguard (VUSTX) and Fidelity Spartan (FLBAX) were down 12% in 2009 as long-term Treasury bond rates ticked up a percentage point. The precipitous fall is just the beginning. High-yield funds like T. Rowe Price’s High Yield Fund (PRHYX), up 49% last year, and Fidelity Capital & Income (FAGIX), up 72%, won’t continue breaking performance records. Junk bond funds have a higher correlation to equity returns than to investment-grade corporates. Unless you expect another year of mammoth inflows into bonds or soaring stock market returns, you can’t expect a repeat performance. You can’t even be sure you’ll end 2010 in positive territory.
We bond folks always look at what can go wrong. Here are a few things on my list: outflow of funds, higher rates, the fear of inflation, a change in Fed policy and, finally, bond investors waking up to the reality of dismal bond returns. As in stocks, so in bonds: Negative returns feed on themselves.
…
The problem for folks like me with 401k or 503b accounts is that you have to put your money somewhere: stock funds, bond funds, treasuries, or TIPS essentially. I split my money between treasuries (buy and hold guaranteed) and TIPS (fund, can lose value with relative deflation), but there is no ideal solution.
Forgot to mention various real estate funds… a great way to lose money!
“Forgot to mention various real estate funds… a great way to lose money!”
I personally don’t believe real estate funds are necessarily a bad idea. At some point over the next decade, the U.S. real estate market (both corporate and residential) is quite likely to bottom out (never mind that the Japanese market is still in the toilet twenty years after the onset of their crash). At that point, it will make sense to invest in real estate funds.
Perhaps there is a way to dollar cost average into real estate funds, in order to be in the market when a bottom is finally attained? If it takes over twenty years, that would mean a bottom would be in by 2028 or so, and after that, your investments might start showing positive returns.
The stampede into bond funds wasn’t just about low short-term interest rates; it was a primal scream by individuals saying, “I can’t take any more losses in the stock market, so get me into something safe!” The bond fund floodgates opened wide to accommodate them.
———————
And this is just what the Fed/PTB wanted. The more money allocated toward bonds, the lower the interest rates across the board. They are trying to squeeze the blood out of anyone holding cash right now.
IMHO, it is always most painful to be on the opposite side of the trade. Hopefully, it is temporary, and we will finally see interest rates skyrocket. We’ve been betting against the LT bond market for many years (by only holding ST debt), and we’ve been getting slaughtered due to the painfully low rates. Almost all of our mid-term bonds and CDs have been called — just got another notice the other day. We are sitting in sub-1% MM funds, and it hurts.
It would feel so good to finally see higher interest rates again. The IR environment of the past decade has been brutal for savers and too good for spenders who fear no debt. Let’s turn the tables on this nightmare, please!
i heard some economist say one day that if just china stopped buying US treasuries the interest rates would (i say should) spike to around 12%.
Already been proven to be false. China is a net seller of treasuries for 6 months running now, and rates haven’t gone up a bit.
Under-the-table QE does wonders for keeping rates down.
Note that Britain’s purchases have ramped up tremendously. Hmm - maybe because of their robust economy? Or could it be “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” QE by the Fed and the BofE?
“Under-the-table QE does wonders for keeping rates down.”
But isn’t it also a good recipe for ‘higher-than-expected’ future inflation? And somewhat akin to eating your young?
But isn’t it also a good recipe for ‘higher-than-expected’ future inflation?
Yep. But all you have to do is make sure said inflation isn’t measured by official CPI numbers, and you’re golden.
One method I mentioned previously is by re-inflating the housing bubble, since housing isn’t measured by CPI.
Another method I haven’t seen discussed much is simply adding tons of fees. A good example is airline flights. Now we have:
- No meals served
- High new fees for baggage
- Different new fees for various booking methods (discussed yesterday)
- Etc. etc.
I’d venture that very little of this shows up in CPI numbers, since the “core” airline flight costs are probably all that’s used in calculating CPI. Nevertheless it’s still a huge increase in cost for the same level of goods and services and/or simply a reduction in the services provided for the same cost.
Other example is huge increase in fees for checking, credit card interest, etc. - huge growth the past few years. All of these increase the actual $$ the average person spends for a given set of goods and services, but isn’t reflect in an increase in CPI.
Another example I heard of even within the official CPI methods is to simply use lower-grade comparisons - e.g. when using meat prices for CPI the grade quality of meat was downgraded, without a corresponding change down in CPI. The reasoning used is that we’re now consuming a higher quantity of lower-grade meat. However that shouldn’t matter. You’re supposed to measure apples vs. apples; the fact that people have switched to cheaper oranges doesn’t mean we actually are experiencing deflation.
Wonderful methodologies, eh?
keep watching that stat for us combo…it’s really the pulse of the nation
Looks like The Days of Thunder and EasyRider Boyz take a recession hit. The Harley Davidson Fatboy gang is going on a diet.
Harley reports first loss in 16 years
By Rick Barrett of the Journal Sentinel
Posted: Jan. 22, 2010
Harley-Davidson Inc. reported its first quarterly loss in 16 years Friday and predicted that 2010 would be a challenging year.
The world’s largest maker of heavyweight motorcycles had a fourth-quarter loss of $218.7 million, or 94 cents a share, compared with net income of $77.8 million, or 34 cents, a year earlier.
The recent quarter included $167.1 million in costs related to the shutdown of the Buell Motorcycles division and a 53% reduction in motorcycle shipments
http://tinyurl.com/yg8up77
THYS
mikey,
Hey! btw, this was bound to happen regardless. They’ve enjoyed a great run and fair winds off the aging boomer demographic for a long, long time.
This gravy train was bound to end, with or without an economic meltdown. Frankly, I’m surprised it’s lasted as long as it has? Be grateful for the time the Money God was smiling at you.
Love their radio commercials. They pretty much say “yeah we’re in a recession and you probably can’t afford a Harley right now…but your a tough guy, and tough guys don’t give a rat’s ass about recessions. Go buy a Harley!!!”
Seriously? Wow.
That must be from the same Madison Avenue ad company that gave us the infamous Century 21 “The Choice” commercial, a.k.a. “Suzanne researched this.”
I’m a Baby Boomer leather-dress up pirate. Nope, nobody else is like me, cause I ride a Harley. I’m an American Original. I set myself apart from the rest of my Baby Boomer brethren…except when we all meet on Saturdays and ride from the dealership to a selected burger & beer joint…no more than 100 miles away. (Hey, these things get uncomfortable after a few hours.)
Apologizes. I was just channeling what I see when driving through MN on any given Saturday. Obviously only when the weather is warmer than 50F. So, yes, about 8 weekends.
CEOs to Hill: Quit calling us for campaign cash
WASHINGTON – Dozens of current and former corporate executives have a message for Congress: Quit hitting us up for campaign cash.
Roughly 40 executives from companies including Playboy Enterprises, ice cream maker Ben & Jerry’s, the Seagram’s liquor company, toymaker Hasbro, Delta Airlines and Men’s Wearhouse sent a letter to congressional leaders Friday urging them to approve public financing for House and Senate campaigns. They say they are tired of getting fundraising calls from lawmakers — and fear it will only get worse after Thursday’s Supreme Court ruling.
The court ruled that corporations and unions can spend unlimited money on ads urging people to vote for or against candidates. The decision was sought by interest groups including one that represents American businesses, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. They argued that restrictions on ads they could finance close to elections violated their free-speech rights, and the court agreed.
Congressional candidates who find themselves attacked by a flood of special-interest TV ads in the 2010 elections will likely reach out to their party’s biggest donors for money to help them counter the blitz.
“Members of Congress already spend too much time raising money from large contributors,” the business executives’ letter says. “And often, many of us individually are on the receiving end of solicitation phone calls from members of Congress. With additional money flowing into the system due to the court’s decision, the fundraising pressure on members of Congress will only increase.”
Among the others signing the letter are current or former executives of Quaker Chemical Corp., Brita Products Co., San Diego National Bank, MetLife and Crate & Barrel.
They sent the letter through Fair Elections Now, a coalition of good-government groups who hope the Supreme Court ruling will lead Congress to pass public campaign financing legislation they have long been seeking. Others supporting public financing include former campaign strategists for President Barack Obama and former President George W. Bush.
How hard is it to just say no? I guess they’re afraid that if they do, they won’t get all the special breaks handed out to large businesses. Gee, that would mean that they would just have to fend for themselves, like the rest of us small businesspeople do. Cry me a river.
The upside is small business doesn’t regularly get hit up for campaign cash by local politicians. If they did, might you feel an implied threat?
They could have done this privately, but instead it’s in the mass media. “Politicians are hounding us for money.”
Why do it this way and expose it?
Maybe these businesses want the public to back them up. The message is “Your representative’s vote is for sale!”
What’s the likely response from politicians.. “You better pay up or else.” ?
Small businesses with a clearly visible public face, absolutely do get hit up for donations by rent seekers of all types, including politicians. Learning to say no, early and often, is essential.
If I feared the wrath of a protection or shakedown racket in a location where I did business, I’d pull up stakes and move elsewhere, or just shut down. Or I’d never locate there in the first place. Life is too short to deal with that crap, at least while we still can make basic choices about where we live and what we do.
The big business complainers are just another sub-species of whining Americans. It’s who we the people are, it’s what we do.
I might give them a little money with the understanding that sales, property and various business taxes will be maintained or reduced. Certainly sounds less expensive than pulling up stakes and maybe growing another clientele..
.. but then I’d be one of those business people who own and control the government. It’d be a tough choice to make.
my employer never put up a company sign because of that.
In Montana,
Savvy! ( Why didn’t “I” think of that? )
iftheshoefits,
+1 at ya’ baby! Yeah, the small guys like us get hit up for the wrestling team, ‘pep’ band, marching… band, you name it! I’m IN the Guard and I get hit up for The Guard Relief Fund!
( Why don’t they just take it at regular intervals from your drill-pay! ) Of course we’re immediately identified as whiners-of-no-consequence, so no one hears OR cares.
Yeah my employer converted a big old factory, never put up a sign or even street number..at the end of a long recession here. City pols never even knew we were there or what we did, even at 100 employees.
I’m convinced when there really are “green shoots” no one will know it, except those with the new jobs.
Agreed, for the sake of their business, I don’t think they can say no to anyone right now.
You can’t risk being on the wrong side of TARP III and TARP IV. You have got to cover all your bases or your business and/or bonus could be toast next year.
If you were ever going to run for office, this cold be the year….
“TARP III and TARP IV”
Yuck, yuck. Good one! Love the Roman numerals ( makes it appear more… stately )
“Members of Congress already spend too much time raising money from large contributors,” the business executives’ letter says.
Imagine if the Republicrat whores who are going hat in hand to their corporate patrons were to get cut off, and had to seek (gasp!) grassroots support instead. Ron Paul, by the way, was the runaway leader in small, individual campaign donations in the last Presidential elections. Obama and McSame, by contrast, were both heavily funded by Wall Street financial interests, with consequences that should be obvious to all.
Rep. Barney Frank calls for replacement of mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac
WASHINGTON (AP) — A top lawmaker on Capitol Hill is calling for the elimination of mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and the establishment of a new system to provide money for U.S. home loans.
Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, said Friday he supports replacing the two companies entirely.
“I believe this committee will be recommending abolishing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in their current form and coming up with a whole new system of housing finance,” Frank said at a hearing on executive compensation issues. “That’s the approach, rather than the piecemeal one.”
His comments show how much the financial crisis has upended the relationship between lawmakers and the two companies. Frank was long one of the staunchest supporters of Washington-based Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, based in McLean, Va.
The two companies, which have been run by the government since they almost collapsed in September 2008, have required $111 billion in federal aid to stay afloat. Late last year the Obama administration pledged to cover unlimited losses through 2012 for both companies, lifting an earlier cap of $400 billion.
Regulators announced last month the CEOs of Fannie and Freddie could get paid as much as $6 million for 2009. That has outraged Republican lawmakers on Capitol Hill.
“We are paying these people bonuses to lose tens of billions of dollars,” said Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Texas at Friday’s hearing. “What people do with their money is their business. What they do with the taxpayer money is our business.”
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac provide vital cash to the mortgage industry by purchasing home loans from lenders and selling them to investors. Together, they own or guarantee almost 31 million home loans worth about $5.5 trillion, or about half of all mortgages in the U.S.
So far, the Obama administration has been quiet about its plans for the two companies. In an interview Thursday on PBS, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said the Obama administration will “propose a set of detailed reforms beginning this year” for Fannie and Freddie. But he said legislation will have to wait until next year “because it’s just a complicated thing to get right.”
Shares of both companies sank on the news. Fannie Mae closed at 99 cents, down 7.5 percent. Shares of Freddie Mac closed at $1.17, down 10.7 percent, but added a penny in after-hours trading.
Forget the “replacement” fantasy and expect a future name change for the GSEs. This would be accompanied by measures to clean their balance sheets of toxic assets, to give the appearance they have been overhauled and to deodorize the lingering political stench following their roles in precipitating the Fall 2008 financial collapse. Beyond that point, expect business as usual: reflating the bubble, supporting unaffordable home prices, maintaining a standing army of lobbyists on K-Street to further their programs, disseminating propaganda about their “affordable housing mission,” etc etc etc.
Meanwhile, expect the U.S. private market for mortgage financing, the one which advantageously uses natural private market incentives to encourage prudent borrowing and lending, due to the negative financial consequences for borrower and lender who do not exercise financially prudence, to remain indefinitely FUBAR, crowded out of existence by the government-sponsored duopolists.
Disclaimer: The above is pure conjecture, not a rumor.
“Disclaimer:”
PB, I’m the first to agree.., ( wait a minute, has Hell truly frozen over? Did Barney actually say that? ) likely we’ll get another re-shuffling like WaMu magically becoming Chase Bank by painting the bank blue and hanging a ‘temp’ banner, but did you have to RUIN the fantasy so quickly!?
Actually, I think they’ve finally come to the conclusion many of us here have back in 2005. It’s time to admit Phonie & Fraudie are unworkable going forward. Next thing we’ll hear is Barney is going hetero.
They’ll be forced to put it back on the US balance sheet or offer some other form of explicit guarantee. It’s the next giant step in wrecking the country’s finances.
Was Barney Frank anointed to office, or was he elected by voters?
Simple solution declare corporations non persons and designate them as national treasures. Personhood should never be granted to inanimate or non human entities. Otherwise I am declaring my pet rock a person with all the rights and priveleges of a human, both rights. Death and Taxes.
Your rock should get a mortgage. There’s never been a better time to buy.
Include unions and advocacy groups such as AARP and Angie’s List, meaning no contributions from groups or “aggregators” whatsoever. Also limit what individuals such as George Soros and Warren Buffet can contribute in total (not a per-candidiate limit).
Simple or simplistic? What about the flip side?
Without recognizing a corporation as a separate legal entity, it could not be sued. It need follow no laws. It would have no responsibilities.
If the objective is to hold the corporation’s owners personally liable for whatever that business does, and put those stock holder’s at risk for money beyond their investment, you might as well say goodbye to corporations all together… because nobody would buy stock in any company.
..but so what? Who needs big business? Cars, electricity, telecommunications facilities, as well as big finance, large construction.. the list is endless.
Things that only exist because lots of people pool their money together require the corporate structure. If we can do without all that stuff, then fine.
joey,
Right, like all the Abolish the Fed blathering. ( Like we can get along just fine without it and nothing almost identical wouldn’t spring up the following day? )
But we really DO need to get back to ethics. Right now, I’m afraid to enter into just about ANY kind of new biz relationship because there’s just so much -risk- in it. There isn’t a lot of trust out there in the business community right now.
And NO! I’m not interested in allowing you access to my clients for your Post-Bust real estate “development”. I need that like I need herpes.
Without recognizing a corporation as a separate legal entity, it could not be sued. It need follow no laws. It would have no responsibilities.
Nor could it own property or sue anyone else. Individuals would have to be fully responsible for all actions.
..but so what? Who needs big business? Cars, electricity, telecommunications facilities, as well as big finance, large construction.. the list is endless.
Things that only exist because lots of people pool their money together require the corporate structure. If we can do without all that stuff, then fine.
Wrongo, Joey. Most of those things existed before corporations and all would certainly continue without them. Your post is right up there with the people who think government cures cancer and makes the sun come up.
..Individuals would have to be fully responsible for all actions..
I though I was quite clear about that.. evidently not.
Put yourself in the shoes of a stock holder. You own one share of some corporation, and are an “owner”. Since you do not enjoy the limited liability afforded by current corporate structure, you as an individual are personally liable and could lose everything you possess… for the sake of owning one share of stock in a company.
Is that clear? Would you (or anyone in his right mind) buy shares in a corporation? No.
———
…Most of those things existed before corporations…
oh really.. and which of those things existed before the British East India Company?
Don’t bother to look it up.. it was formed in December of 1600.
In any event, in today’s world they would all disappear were corporations as entities in themselves cease to exist… unless you choose communism or similar, in which case the State will provide for all your wants and needs..
The stockholders shouldn’t be liable for anything, but the executives and BOD should certainly be. They’re the ones who get paid the big buck$ to “take risks” (at least that’s what they tell us makes them deserving of high-six/seven-figure+ compensation).
Truth be told, they’re not taking any risks, personally.
If they aren’t willing to be personally liable, then they don’t deserve the kind of compensation they’re getting in so many cases. It’s one or the other, you can’t have both (limited liability and unlimited compensation).
Stockholders are the business’s owners.
CEOs are employees.
You are hired because you are a risk taker. You work really fast and get lots done.. not always done right, but a lot gets done.. pots and pans are flying around in the kitchen.
You’re essentially saying the wealth of the guy that owns the restaurant you work at should be shielded from the lawsuit when you, an employee, kills a customer with a serving of some bad oysters.
Only you, an employee, is liable, and have put your home, bank account, child’s college education fund and everything else you own at risk.
I dunno if I’d wanna work there.
What’s it matter how much your salary is when you could lose all your worldly possessions in a heartbeat?
—-
It’s no accident that corporations are set up the way they are. Owners ARE liable, as they should be. Employees are NOT.
Owner liability is limited to their investment. If you own 100 shares @ $2 each, you are risking $200 and no more.
which of those things existed before the British East India Company
Sorry, the British East India Company did not invent cars, electricity, or telecommunications. Individuals did.
The stockholders shouldn’t be liable for anything
Why not? They’re hoping for unlimited rewards just as the execs are. And if they’re not fulfilling their duty to oversee the corp, they should be held liable as well.
..Sorry, the British East India Company did not invent cars, electricity, or telecommunications. Individuals did.
LehighValleyGuy,
I was trying to illustrate things that require a huge amount of resources (money) to produce. You might build one car in the backyard, but to build and provide millions of them requires a huge investment.
The way we afford to build big things is through corporations.. lots of little people pooling their investment money together.
Think Loyds of London for stockholder responsibility.
The supreme court just declared corporations are persons didn’t you know. They can now give unlimited campaign contributions.
I’m considering taking the hook. I’ve been renting a modest farm house for six years. It’s part of a large parcel that used to be a dairy farm. My LL bought from his dad 10 years ago and has just held as an investment. It’s been a sweet deal for me, my rent is low, only a mile to the little town where mail and groceries can be had, the view fantastic, mind their own business neighbors unless you need something, wildlife, etc. A couple of years abo I asked the LL to sell me the piece across the road with old barn and pond and he was adamant that he was holding for the jackpot.
Yesterday he told me he wants to do a deal if I’m still interested. He is drowning in debt and needs to break the place up to sell. Dairy farmland is not real hot right now in big parcels but 10 acres still sell. The Menonites are not in expansion mode, probably because dairy doesn’t pay these days. I’m tempted, further tempted by the realization that he will be selling this house.
I’ve been looking for “land and camp” for some time, determined to stay in the county because two of my children have sunk roots here. It’s not time yet to get a true bargain. I don’t need a traditional house, an RV site and shop building would be just right, and I don’t want to pay high taxes in the future as my retirement budget will be low impact appropriate.
So, it would be about ten acres. Half in gently sloping alfalfa field. A stream on the back boundary. A pond above the barn which used to water 200 cattle and now supports a nice bass population. Ability to garden obvious. Two of the best wells in the township and a septic system (not up to code, but still). An old Pennsylvania style bank barn that is sound but needs some roof work, where my son and I do our several automotive projects. An expansive open though roofed concrete floored cattle shed good for out of rain storage. The gem is the milkhouse. One large open room with windows and doors which would make a nice office or even a passable bachelor pad, a utility room with toilet, water heater and space for other necessities. A large milking parlor, solid as a pillbox, that could serve as my wood working shop. All of this the tax man says is fully depreciated, meaning that whatever I did inside would be low to no tax impact above the land taxes, so $700 - $800 per year (who knows what the tax rate will be in future).
The LL indicated the negotiations could start at $30K. Quite doable for me cash and still have enough saved to keep my feet planted whatever happens with the tenuous job. I used to be a hobby farmer (and loved it) so I can do all that stuff including hoofed critters if time and inclination are available. I have a beautiful old Airstream to sleep and eat in and a cumbersome woodshop hobby which needs a shelter. I don’t need to impress anyone much, which is kind of the tenor of the whole area outside the Victorian strip in town, where I used to carry a grand house on my back.
So I am tempted to buy this place and solidify my A Plan as it is all a fit. I know that such a place might well be available at 1980 prices in time, but the amount to be gained is so low that I don’t see much advantage in the wait. My hampster wheel is winding down rapidly so maybe this is the right time to take a turn, camp out and watch from the bleachers.
“The LL indicated the negoiations could start at 30K.”
Thirty K? You get all you just described for only 30K?
Do it!
That’s what happens when there are no jobs.
“What happens when there are no jobs?”
Your words: “Quite doable for me cash and still have enough saved to keep my feet planted whatever happens with the tenuous job.”
Not sure what you mean Combo. There is precious little manufacturing left in this region is what I meant. For me, I don’t work here, I’m “in a remote location”.
What I meant is you indicated you have enough saved to keep your feet planted whatever happens with the tenuous job. I gather from this that you don’t need to earn income from a job to live your life as you want.
Blue Skye -
My error and my apologies. I misread your post.
You were correct, I could get by without a job probably just fine.
Blue Skye,
You’re familiar with the property, neighbors, and area. Your family is nearby. You can pay cash for what seems to be a reasonable price, and still be comfortable.
IMHO, this is a no-brainer. Go for it.
Do it!
NO WAY!! Are you crazy? DO NOT DO IT!
(unless you can get it for 29K)
sounds ideal.. stream.. pond.. buildings and all that.. which puts me on my guard.
Is there any potential downside? Is he negotiating with a meat packing plant to buy the adjacent property?
I’d look deep into all the possibilities.. and then either buy it quick or pass.
From what you’ve said so far, I say go for it. The intangibles - your two rooted children, plus the space to work side-by-side by your son, are worth a great deal. And not just to you.
Aside, you mentioned the septic is not up to code. You also have a creek out back. Any potential problems there should you have a few very wet seasons? Does your love of “hobby” farming include cleaning up after a natural disaster? Not likely, of course, but a possibility.
I like this, though. The price is good, you know the turf and you can use the buildings NOW. You certainly don’t appear to have a vague “someday, I can use X for this” mentality.
The creek is in a ravine and the drop off to the lake is several hundred feet over a mile or two. If we flood here, the whole east coast would be gone.
The septic has a large tank, just not much of a drain field. Low usage would be OK, but if several lived here or if I was doing laundry for six it would be a mess. So, bath water not to go to the system. To bring up to code maybe $4K. There are ways to avoid loading the system.
Three swales could solve the drain field problem easily and inexpensively. Not the ideal fix if something happens obviously, but better than the septic backing up elsewhere.
No problems with zoning restrictions on living in a trailer?
Will the county rezone the land from AG to residential and boost your property taxes?
Geez DennisN, I want you around when there’s a fire, you darn handy with a bucket of water…
I knew a pair of brothers who bought AG land outside of Albany, Oregon. They restored the farmhouse to live in and then built a horse boarding/exercise facility on the land.
The county thereupon re-zoned their property from AG to “light commercial” and raised their property taxes from something like $10K per year to something like $60K per year!
I am surrounded by farms and camps, trailers, and barns. If they played zoning games, there would be pitchforks galore. This is not yuppieville. Besides, I am not going to build anything.
DennisN,
I recall hearing that. Last I heard they were -still- fighting it! Like Albany is such a “hot” place? Have you ‘been’ there?
No the brothers “J” sold out to escape the taxes around 1991. I only dropped by the ranch once coming back from an Austin-Healey meet at Mt. Hood in 1989.
Maybe you heard about someone else who’s in a similar boat.
The county thereupon re-zoned their property from AG to “light commercial” and raised their property taxes from something like $10K per year to something like $60K per year!
BS.. if the land was AG = EFU, then the county
couldn’t do a thing. State law. Now if the brothers bought what they “thought” was AG in the towns Urban growth boundary, they’re dumber than dirt. Ag land in Oregon is sacred,
sacrosanct, holy beyond holy. You and God cannot change the Exclusive Farm Use laws.
“Exclusive Farm Use” sounds like the land must be used exclusively as a farm..
While I don’t question your expertise in the matter, I find it odd that if everyone in the county decided to turn their farms into residential neighborhoods the county couldn’t re-zone and adjust taxes accordingly.
IIUC the county declared that running a business of boarding horses was not “agricultural use”, hence the rezoning. I can put you in touch with the brothers “J” if you want.
Oregon has a well-established history in recent years of really working to screw over landowners. There have been a couple of taxpayer revolts due to it. (One of them was not letting people build on their own land because of the environmental impact and CHARGING them for maintaining the land as wild space.)
No. There are several RV sites along this road.
Blue Skye,
Congrats! I just want to make sure you make this as punishing for the seller as possible. I run into a LOT of this these days.
When you first offered to make him an offer ( and he was holding out for the ‘jackpot’ ) whether or not you realize, that was -very- insulting. The message being, a man of ‘your’ resources simply isn’t the ‘type’ of buyer I’m looking at! You’re not in this league son.
Well low and behold (1) economic disaster later and he’s NOW willing to talk turkey? I get this all the time.
Blue Skye,
If you love the area and can afford it, what are you waiting for? You could do some of that hobby farming to get by in hard times or to supplement your income in the good times.
I met a guy in Tucson that works for one of the large landscaping companies and he’s turned his green thumb into a side business. People love home grown “organic” food and indeed some big companies are finding out that their organic lines of product are doing better than anything else.
Sounds like an awesome life to me and kind of makes me jealous.
Lip
(Hwy humming, “Green Acres is the place to be…”)
Sounds like fun and a 10 year “project” …nice knowya former “bitter renter”
LOL.
Blue Skye, I think this is an excellent opportunity for you, and you’d be happy. Don’t know how old you are, but I go by what do I want to do since my life is over half over. You will be happy there, you already ARE happy there, and $30,000 is not much for peace of mind and a piece of Little Heaven, from the sound of it. Besides, if you don’t buy it, he’ll sell it to somebody and they’ll be jumping for joy. This is quite an opportunity. I hope it all works out for you.
Quite a few of the “sons of farmers” around Boise have come a cropper in a similar manner.
One retiring farmer had something like 2,000 acres in a valley just north of Eagle, ID. Rather than selling the whole thing to a begging developer in 2005 (for 2005 prices) he only sold about 25% but with an option for the developer to purchase blocks of the remaining 75% at “then current market prices”. Since real estate only goes up, the farmer thought this was a great deal for him.
Guess what?
http://www.idahobusiness.net/archive.htm/2009/04/06/Avimor-developer-to-sell-housing-projects
“A couple of years abo I asked the LL to sell me the piece across the road with old barn and pond and he was adamant that he was holding for the jackpot.”
Before I speak, let me preface by saying that I’m certain you’re somewhere around Ithaca.
Your landlord’s speculative sentiment was the rule in the northeast, generally speaking. Now what have we? Oh yes…. I get it now. Reality, truth and fact are now slowly entering the skulls of dumbo’s who were told;
A) 9/11 drove prices up.
B) Nobody wants to live in NYC
C) All the rich people want to live here
D) ___________________. (fill in the blank)
The long slow post industrial and post small farm operation era never entered the discussion. Forget about that 30 year history. Ever increasing land and housing prices was to be their saving grace.
I got a question for all the rural northeast folks…..
What happened??? Your sick demented world of grossly inflated housing prices seems like nothing more than a deep, dreamy delusion now. Face the fact that you were LIED TO. Go ahead and admit it. Admit the fact that you sought out exactly what you wanted to hear from lying used house salesman better know as REALTORS. Well…. What now? You want to cry Uncle but you’re really not ready to concede defeat. Can’t let go of the pot of gold that never existed in the first place right? I have some advice for you. HOLD ON to 2005. All of you. Every single last one of you chronically underemployed empty skulls should click your heels together and chant “better days are coming”. I might be able to will it into existence so long as you do it enough. You’re all on your own now. The used house salesmen left you high and dry. Nobody believes their lies now.
Now I got that contempt out of my system I can discuss your thoughts Blue Skye. Just two weeks ago I had a discussion with my carpenter foremen and superintendent. Their home base is just east of ithaca. Superintendent knows a 5 acre parcel with well and septic owned by a used housesalesmen. We’re all construction guys and from the northeast and came up with a value based on historical sales, retail cost of well, septic and dirt.
Well, $2500 tops
Septic, 6000 tops
Dirt, $2,000/acre and that is at the very top end of the range
Typical value? $18,000
The three of us agreed that a $20k price tag is above being generous so he made the offer. The used house salesman flat out rejected. No thought, no counter. You see, the UHS attached a $50k price to it even though he conceded to my super that it’s nowhere near worth that. He even stated, “there are no jobs here” but is counting on some uninformed fool from outside the area with a hole in his pocket. The fact is there is no bank on the planet that will lend a local $50k and then another 80k to set a double wide on it when you can buy that same setup anywhere for under $70k. It’s just not going to happen.
The skyrocketing property tax issue is an other discussion. My feeling is that there is no need to live in NY unless you’re really making a pile of money. As you already know, NY is a bifurcated economy. Big money can be made in and around NYC but the rest of the state is resuming it’s post industrial decline yet the carrying costs (namely property taxes) continue their upward pressure on a underemployed population. My personal opinion is that you have no business living in NY unless you’re making big money. There is no other reason to stay here. It sounds dark and gloomy but I’m a realist and there is nothing on the horizon that would suggest this will ever change. The future is not in the northeast. I don’t know where the bright spots are but they’re most certainly not here however so many here do not want to accept that fact.
I understand, but it depends on what one requires of the future and how much or little one is attached to the tax base.
heh, just because 50k sounds cheap compared to recent past…
Exactly Montana.
…. +2!
Yeah, I’ve run into this on the Big Island. Back in 1999 ( when they were still reeling from the Japanese Exodus ) 8-12k foot lots could be had for $1,500 to $8,000.
Mindful, buyers paid 15-20k when the Japanese were buying the islands. By 2005 they were asking 50-75-100k. So now asking 15k looks like a sweet deal, right?
No. F you. Start flirting w/ 1999 prices and we can talk. Lots of knife wounds out there. I’m not fully ready any way.
The Big Island? You mean Luzon?
Blue,
Do it! 30K is nothing for some security.
“One in the hand is worth two in the bush”
Who knows how this is going to shake out? I think most of us agree it will get worse, maybe much worse. But take this FWIW, to do nothing = failure. Of this I am sure.
WTF!!
How many times in the last few weeks have you thrown terms at me like, “freedom, slavery, debt, etc.” and now you throw this up on the board! Yeah, I’ll take you up on the day cruise, so I can kick you in the jimmy! Just kidding, you should buy, really. You know how I feel about that entire area.
Slightly related: what do you make of the deal between Roc and NYS over Canadice and Hemlock? My gut was that something must be going on, and if I had to bet the farm, I’d say development.
Muggy, I am free. I have the cash in a coffee can, somewhere, if I can remember where I put it…..
Hey I’m not up on the scheme you mentioned on those lakes. They are pristine water sources is all I know. I’ll have to do some research. As for development….hasn’t that train left the station?
You remind me of my uncle, who sold a retirement home and stored the cash (buried about his property) in rural Ohio. This is the same guy that let me shoot up his old barn with an AR-15 when I was about 13, so naturally I think he is the coolest guy in the world.
NYS is buying Canadice and Hemlock from the City of Rochester. Even Gov. Patterson has spoken directly about it (despite the budget crisis). I have no idea what the implications are, but there is usually only one reason you sell chunks of beautiful wild: you need the loot, and someone wants to build on it. Sure RE is dead, but hey, we need to “jumpstart” the economy, right? Let’s build!
The wifey and I are hitting peak in our “where should we live?” crisis. We are both tempted to work for my old employer, which would allow us to be state employees of Florida, but live in NYS. The thought of it makes me nervous, but nothing right now is a sure bet.
Like you, the wheel is becoming tiresome…
What about a 1000 year flood.. will it affect your home?
A stream on the back boundary.
I’m about 1000 feet uphill from you dj. We’ll send it your way. I’ll be the one riding the wave in a ghost white canoe.
One caveat crossed my mind, Blue Skye-
Be sure to do an environmental check to make sure there are no toxic materials contaminating this site.
You don’t want to have liability for the costs to remedy a nasty, icky chemical dumping ground. And watch out for pasture pies.
In my experience, such things do not go unnoticed in closely knit farming communities. There hasn’t been anything here but cattle for as long as there are records. I have lived here six years and have walked it a thousand times. The neighbors have lived here for generations and notice if I bag a groundhog or squirrel. There are no factories in the area. We all drink the water and noone is sick. I think it will be OK.
Blue, you know you want to do this, your post is heartfelt and sincere, you’re just afraid of making a big mistake, maybe.
How could you possibly lose?
JUST DO IT!! It’s perfect for you, don’t worry about anything else, just follow your own counsel and do it.
I am taking my finger off the trigger. Had another chat with LL today. He was cruising the road to catch me about and he did. Yesterday he wanted to offer $30K and see what my bid was. Today I told him my bid was $25K. He balked with that “son you aren’t in the right league” look. Said as I had use for the barn, that should be worth something. I said as a building site, the barn is a teardown and an expensive one. Well, you’ll have to go better than $30K to get me interested he said. I’ll sell the house with that parcel for $200K and that will get me out of debt. I know I can sell the lot down on the highway for $8K an acre and I’m going to put a sign up. We’ll see what that sells for and that will set your price. Couldn’t have you buying cheap and everyone asking about why could we. I said tell them that it will cost me $100K to clean the place up to build and let it go at that. No hurry says he, I’ve got to set the price with the other lot.
Ya know, this guy is an azz, and delusional too. Yesterday apparently his friend hung himself and he had a moment of clarity or depression. Today he is over it. I don’t want to do business with an azz unless there’s tears running down his cheeks. I’m the one that’s saved some money and he is the one that is in debt up to his freakin eyeballs. I think my survival rate will be better than his.
He would not have gotten $200K for the house and land in 2006. He offered it to me for the assessment then and that was about $120K. As for the “prine lot”, those things stopped selling completely here about 18 months ago. And who can go to the bank to borrow on raw land? Reality check headed the LL’s way I think.
So I am pissed. A pissed renter am I. I could rent an RV site from a farmer for my life’s expectancy and even throw up a pole barn on it for less money. My powder stays dry for now. I have nothing but time and cash. His day is over, mine is just around the next ugly corner.
So sorry. It sounded good where it was, but now his second thoughts made it not work. Pity.
… Maybe you can pick up the parcel at auction. Heh.
Skye,
Yes. Do it.
(But make sure you have water rights, no easements, etc. And consider the impact future neighbors/subdivisions may have upon your serenity.
Check the parcel maps and local covenants closely.)
Good for you!
WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama has sharply criticized a Supreme Court decision easing limits on campaign spending by corporations and labor unions, saying he couldn’t ‘think of anything more devastating to the public interest.’ He also suggested the ruling could jeopardize his domestic agenda.
In other words, corporations and unions should not be permitted free political speech. We listened to anguished liberal commentators rail last evening about the court’s decision being the “worst setback in a century.” Here and there a few pundits see the decision as a good thing.
George Will: “The court’s decision will be predictably lamented by people alarmed by the prospect of more political money funding more political speech. The Supreme Court has now said to such people approximately this: The First Amendment does not permit government to decide the ‘proper’ quantity of political speech.”
“In other words, corporations and unions should not be permitted free political speech.”
Supreme Newspeak: “Money talks and bullsh!t walks.”
WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama has sharply criticized a Supreme Court decision easing limits on campaign spending by corporations and labor unions, saying he couldn’t ‘think of anything more devastating to the public interest.’
I can think of something more devastating to the public interest. His re-election.
“The remedy is abolishing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in their current form and coming up with a whole new system of housing finance.”
~Rep. Barney Frank (D., Mass.),
No, Bailout Barney, the remedy is to abolish Fannie Mac and Freddie Mac and forever after keep the government out of the housing finance sector.
But how will the government be able to deliver on its commitment to provide affordable housing if they step aside and let the invisible hand of the free market work its magic?
Amen, Sammy!
From your lips to Barney Frank’s ears.
“People without jobs can’t shop like they used to,” observes Bill Bonner, “…and they can’t pay their bills. One out of 4 mortgaged houses is underwater. One in 10 is in foreclosure. Many more will probably go into foreclosure as the depression continues and default becomes more socially acceptable.
” Previous generations regarded default and foreclosure as a disgrace. Lenders priced this aversion into their lending rates. But now, default is just a shrewd financial move. When the financial costs of defaulting are lower than the costs of paying…that’s what borrowers will do. Just like Wall Street.
“As the depression continues, attitudes will change… Voters will probably want real change in Washington; that’s what the Massachusetts election may be telling us.”
Default and foreclosure remain a disgrace. As for walking away being labeled a “shrewd” move.. hardly.
Shrewd would be finding some way to pay the debts and keep the stuff.
Many here feel sympathy for the FBs and encourage them to walk, but few if any would knowingly loan these walkers a dime in the future without pricing in the much higher risks..
And if abandoning something because it’s unaffordable is justified because Wall Street does it, then abandoning a pet or child or parent is justified likewise. There’s no end to the shrewd financial moves a person might make if Wall Street is their mentor..
Many here feel sympathy for the FBs and encourage them to walk, but few if any would knowingly loan these walkers a dime in the future without
pricing in the much higher risks..making sure their collateral was priced correctly.But how do you propose to price the collateral “correctly”? The best one can do is price it at current market value, and set a safe loan to value ratio..
But you’d want to treat a walker differently. You’d want to price a walker’s collateral lower.
Say you sell two identical loans backed by two identical properties. Someone is gonna complain if you value one property lower than the other. It seems blatantly unfair. Might you get sued? I dunno if there’s any basis for a lawsuit.. seems to be one.
—–
Instead, here’s an easy way to avoid all the fuss: As a lender, you could devalue both the good borrower’s collateral and the walker’s. Both will pay a higher, but equal, premium. In other words, customers with a good credit history will pay more.
My guess is lenders will take this easy way out.
But how do you propose to price the collateral “correctly”?
I think I’d take some numbers like rents or maybe income and stuff and then I’d use some math on them.
But I don’t know as much about that stuff as them banks do.
“But how do you propose to price the collateral “correctly”? The best one can do is price it at current market value, and set a safe loan to value ratio.”
That’s why it is useful to employ myriad government interventions in the housing market to prop up home prices. Most observers are not sufficiently astute to differentiate between collateral prices which reflect fundamental demand versus those which reflect the reflationary effect of extraordinary (though unsustainable) interventions. This gives owners of toxic assets an excellent opportunity to unload them on unsuspecting knife catchers.
I was in the food court of a mall the just today, and saw an advertisement on Five Reasons to Avoid Foreclosure. All of the reasons were the same rehash on: “You will have to disclose the foreclosure to get another mortgage…your FICO will drop by 300 points…might be hard to buy a car/rent an apt…” The only legit reason in the ad was that employers often look at FICO as a measure of job worthiness (I still think there’s a 4th amendment lawsuit in there somewhere).
The ad, of course, was “Brought to you by the National Assoication of Realtors.”
I gotta go with Combo on this one. For most of these foreclosures, the question isn’t IF, but WHEN, and the populace is catching on. But, the NAR and your friendly neighborhood bank want you to keep paying until you can’t. How dare you reserve that money for yourself! they say. You should partially bail out the bank first, and then we’ll allow you to save yourself.
Many here feel sympathy for the FBs and encourage them to walk
Not so. Most of us feel no sympathy whatsoever for FBs, except for those who lived and borrowed within their means but were truly victims of unfortunate circumstances. We encourage them to walk to punish the banksters who helped cause the housing bubble by extending irresponsible levels of credit to borrowers who were poor credit risks. The bigger the glut of unsold foreclosed houses, the greater pressure there will be on banks to dump their massive and growing shadow inventory - which will collapse home prices, but is ultimately necessary for sanity to return to the market.
Exactly right, Sammy.
B.S.
Lenders and landlorfds know that there are people who can and will pay despite a foreclosure/default in their past.
That said, good FICO or not I would want 20% down or first and last month’s deposit.
Prudent business practices.
As a result, The One has decided to attempt a populist image and utter populist rhetoric. LOL! He has as much chance of coming across as a populist as George H.W. Bush would have had.
But if he fired Geithner and Summers, and withdrew Bernanke’s renomination, then maybe The One would have a better chance of pulling it off. Asking Ron Paul to be Fed chairman would then be a nice bipartisan move, which would also help.
If Obama were to be perceived as a populist, he’d first have to be seen as someone who takes care of his family.
He doesn’t, so he won’t. He’s so concerned about the plight of the common man, yet his mother and other relatives languish in places like Kenya. He doesn’t know what’s good for his own family - and can’t or won’t attend to their needs/problems - yet he knows what is good for your family?
He’s every bit the elitist that G.W. Bush ever was. It’s why don’t like him on the personal level.
Uhh, Obama’s mom is white and American????
Correct. And how has he treated his mother? Or his grandmother (I’m including any/all of his grandmothers as race seems to be of import to you).
Or how about his Kenyan relatives?
Eudemon, maybe you don’t know this, but his mother died of cancer many years ago, and his American grandmother died during election process; I believe the night before he won the election. As far as his Kenyan relatives, his father is dead, and his half brothers and sisters are numerous, and he doesn’t want to bring the whole group to the U.S. because it would be blatant favoritism and a violation of the U.S. Immigration laws. Surely you can understand this…
Yeah…but his family in Kenya could use his help THERE. Who says there’s any need to bring them to the United States? I didn’t.
And the way he treated his American grandmther was shameful. His maltreatment of her has been well documented.
If The One moves from populist rhetoric to strong action against the Banksters and a comprehensive purge of the Bankster allies (or proxies) in his cabinet, I for one would think far more highly of him.
After last week, I find myself beginning to Hope Now for Change We Can Believe In.
Obama to break up banks
Robert Peston | 17:38 UK time, Thursday, 21 January 2010
Banking reforms do not come bigger than those proposed today by President Obama.
In an echo of the break up of banks that was imposed in the United States after the Great Depression, he wants a limit on their overall size and he also wants them banned from three activities that in recent years have been central to many of them.
He is pushing for them to be prohibited from involvment in hedge funds, from buying and selling whole companies in what’s known as private equity and from buying and selling securities for their own benefit on so-called proprietary trading desks.
In simple terms, he wants to prevent banks from taking speculative risks to generate colossal profits, while knowing that if their bets go wrong taxpayers will pick up the bill.
It means that some of the biggest banks in the US - from Bank of America, to JP Morgan and even Goldman Sachs - may have to be broken up.
…
After last week, I find myself beginning to Hope Now for Change We Can Believe In.
————————
Yes, that was the first time I’ve heard any “good” news from Obama. It is the ONLY good move since this whole “crisis” started, IMHO. Let’s hope it’s for real.
“…a comprehensive purge of the Bankster allies (or proxies) in his cabinet…”
Did you have any particular individuals in mind?
I have been thinking that a comprehensive ban against anyone who ever worked at Gollum Sucks from subsequent federal government employment might go a long way towards solving the systemic risk problem that seems to forever vex Wall Street and Washington financial playas.
“People without jobs can’t shop like they used to, observes Bill Bonner…”
Gawd, that’s terrible. Where’s Barney Frank?
Fear is good, for separating financially prudent bears from bovine brained bulls. Got vega?
* January 21, 2010, 2:15 PM ET
VIX Spikes as Fear Soars
By Steven Sears
Nausea. Disorientation. The trading monitor is filled with red. Stockprices are falling hard. One measure of panic sweeping the Street is the surge in the options market’s fear gauge, the Chicago Board Options Exchange’s Market Volatility Index (VIX).
VIX is up a remarkable 17% at 21.56 as panic sets in that the recent year-to-date strength in the stock market may be illusory. Jobless claims came in higher than expected, and in a consumer-driven economy it’s hard to get pumped about rising stock multiples when so many people are out of work, or afraid of losing their jobs.
The VIX spike is a potent reminder that at least half of what passes for fact on Wall Street is an odd admixture of conjecture and sell-side marketing. In recent days, it has been fashionable to say that a sub-20 VIX was signaling smooth equity markets, even though so much remains wrong in the U.S. economy. The only true statement that can ever be made about VIX is that it is volatile, finicky, and as prone to induce nausea as it is elation.
To be sure, it’s hard to look past the recent stock market volatility without wanting to own some security that increases in value when stock prices decline. Think about hedging. When the VIX declines, and it most likely will as panic subsides, look to reduce your equity risk either by reallocating or by hedging with options on the Standard & Poor’s Depositary Trust (SPY) that tracks the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index.
…
We know the Fed cannot see bubbles, but perhaps Obama can see them.
* The Wall Street Journal
* JANUARY 22, 2010, 2:36 P.M. ET
Obama Bank Plan’s Bubble-Deflating Side Effect
By MICHAEL CASEY
NEW YORK—The Federal Reserve is thinking about just maybe, possibly, considering how to tinker with its policy framework to curtail asset bubbles in some instances.
But while the Fed dithers—for good reason—over this potentially risky shift in its focus, the U.S. President is getting on with the job.
Commentary
The best way to read the sell-off in world markets since President Barack Obama’s announcement of new curbs on bank risk-taking Thursday is that it took some froth out of them. It deflates some of the mini-bubbles in stocks, commodities, high-yield bonds and other risky assets into which the Fed’s aggressive liquidity infusions have streamed this past year.
That pullback is desirable. Surely many of the conservative opponents of Obama’s “populist” measure to prohibit banks from operating internal proprietary trading desks would agree. After all, they’ve been warning for months that the Fed’s near-zero-interest rate policy is fueling speculative excess in markets.
Instead, those critics are warning of a higher cost of bank capital, of further constraints on credit and, by extension, of continued weakness in the U.S. economy and labor market. The markets, they charge, are sending a “message” to the President.
Yet, if you look at the internal dynamics of the current market environment, the President’s move is a master stroke. While the reform is rightfully focused on bringing long-term stability to a banking industry incapable of self-regulation, it also produces a welcome cooling side effect in the markets.
By reducing banks’ capacity to exploit their informational advantages by buying and selling securities for their own account, the “prop trading” ban directly attacks the kind of activity that tends to convert accommodative monetary policy into asset bubbles.
In terms of the threat to banks, the numbers do not support the fearmongers’ case. Prop trading accounts for less than 1% of net revenue at J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. and contributed to just 10% of Goldman Sachs’ $45 billion revenue in 2009.
The banks can afford to lose this.
…
Instead, those critics are warning of a higher cost of bank capital, of further constraints on credit and, by extension, of continued weakness in the U.S. economy and labor market. The markets, they charge, are sending a “message” to the President.
————————
Sounds like a fancy way of saying, “higher interest rates are coming.”
We can only hope!!!!!
Here is a sign of very unhealthy and overvalued financial markets: Speculation about BB’s reappointment is making them pitch and turn like an angry sea. Why would the Fed chair (re)appointment decision even matter if the recession was over and markets were properly pricing in the recovery?
* The Wall Street Journal
* HEARD ON THE STREET
* JANUARY 23, 2010
Obama Leaves Markets in a VIX
By LIAM DENNING
Fear and greed are the odd couple whose constant squabbling dictates the direction of financial markets.
Fear should be gaining the upper hand right about now. It took a pummeling last year as investors recovered their poise surprisingly quickly after the shock of Lehman Brothers’ collapse. Risk assets, be they stocks, high-yield bonds or commodities, provided handsome returns in 2009.
But this week delivered a salutary reminder that it is unrealistic to expect recovery from the worst U.S. recession since the Great Depression and a close brush with financial-system meltdown to be completely smooth. And risks can materialize from the most unlikely sources: In this case, a surprise Republican victory in Massachusetts.
The wild card of government policy is back with a vengeance. Thursday resounded to the sound of President Obama, bruised by the loss of a critical Senate seat, cracking his knuckles in preparation for a smack down with Big Finance. Standing with him was regulatory veteran Paul Volcker, suddenly a central figure in the administration again after a year seemingly spent on the periphery.
In contrast, Ben Bernanke’s reappointment as chairman of the Federal Reserve suddenly looks uncertain. What seemed like a done deal has been thrown into doubt as two more senators said Friday they would vote against Time’s Person of the Year 2009. A rejection of Mr Bernanke would signal a big political shift against the largely government-crafted economic and business environment, riddled with bailouts, that investors have become used to over the past year.
…
I really dislike unions… their original purpose was noble, but nowadays, they’ve become money-hungry institutions that do not care about bankrupting companies/states as long as they get their sweet deals…
===============================
Public Employee Unions Are Sinking California
As the governor noted during his $83 billion budget roll-out, over the past decade pension costs for public employees increased 2,000%. State revenues increased only 24% over the same period. A Schwarzenegger adviser wrote in the San Jose Mercury News in the past few days that, “This year alone, $3 billion was diverted to pension costs from other programs.” There are now more than 15,000 government retirees statewide who receive pensions that exceed $100,000 a year, according to the California Foundation for Fiscal Responsibility.
Many of these retirees are former police officers, firefighters, and prison guards who can retire at age 50 with a pension that equals 90% of their final year’s pay. The pensions for these (and all other retirees) increase each year with inflation and are guaranteed by taxpayers forever—regardless of what happens in the economy
“The pensions for these (and all other retirees) increase each year with inflation and are guaranteed by taxpayers forever - regardless of what happens in the economy.”
So … how can I sign up for this?
Become a cop, firefighter or prison guard. I’m sure you’ll find it’s a comfy position.
Not trying to be snarky, but during the good times, police and fire departments were having a ridiculously difficult time finding qualified recruits. Funny how nobody was complaining about the $100K public employees (who perform very dangerous tasks and deal daily with all the bad stuff many regular people will never see in their lifetimes) when realtors, flippers, and mortgage brokers were making tens of thousands every month .
The LAPD (and other departments, IIRC) even had to resort to hiring ex-gangmembers, because they couldn’t get a big enough pool of qualified candidates with the “no gang history” requirements.
Many people who work in public service do so because they are willing to make sacrifices during the good times in order to have some security during the bad times.
————————–
Several factors have combined to leave police departments hard-pressed to fill their ranks. They include mass retirements by the baby boomer generation, a strong economy providing better-paying jobs in the private sector and a military that is bulked up and repeatedly extending the service commitments of soldiers who might otherwise become police officers, according to Jason Abend, executive director of the National Law Enforcement Recruiters Assn.
Everybody’s feeling the pinch: New York City is struggling to hire 3,300 officers this year, Abend said. Chicago, which used to have a waiting list of applicants, now must scramble to keep recruits in the pipeline.
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jul/02/local/me-recruit2
I would really love to hear from someone/anyone who can explain to me in a coherent and rationale voice why public sector unions are necessary anywhere - not just in California.
What needs there be for a union for public workers? is their employer motivated to unfairness out of greed? is the work high-risk or unsafe?
“I’ve been here 22 years, get 30 days paid vacation and I am lazy”…”You’ve been here 6 years and work circles around me”
“There’ a rumor about layoff’s, nice knowya kid… hope you have good luck “out there”"…
FILO
“is their employer motivated to unfairness out of greed?”
To hear a lot of people tell the tale, that is absolutely the case. I’m not referring to their bosses, but to their owners.
Greedy taxpayers?
He’s talking about public employee unions.
LOL change.
http://cartoons.nytimages.com/portal/wieck_preview_page_216521
Here is some uplifting news against the backdrop of renewed panic on Wall Street and ongoing gloom in the labor market: Against all odds, the California housing market is showing signs of revival (at least according to this har’ article)…
I am wondering if it matters whether end-users participate, or will a reinvigorated army of flippers making all-cash offers above the asking price suffice to lift the California housing market out of its comatose state?
Try not to catch yerself a falling knife.
* The Wall Street Journal
* REAL ESTATE
* JANUARY 23, 2010
California Housing Shows Revival Sign
By JIM CARLTON
SAN FRANCISCO—California’s inventory of unsold, previously owned homes shrank to a five-year low in December, in another sign that the state may be coming out of its worst housing slump in decades.
The supply of unsold single-family homes dropped to 3.8 months from 5.6 months a year ago and 16.6 months in January 2008, when inventories were at a peak, according to estimates released Friday by the California Association of Realtors. The inventory levels are now at their lowest level since 2005, resulting in frenzied sales with multiple offers in some cities.
In Northern California’s Santa Clara County, where inventory has dropped to 50 days from 243 a year ago, Amanda Garcia said she and her father Luis Garcia finally gave up a nine-month search for a home last month, after they kept losing out on homes priced in the highly competitive sub-$500,000 market.
“It’s more like an auction nowadays,” said Ms. Garcia, 26 years old, a medical coordinator from Milpitas, Calif. “They shouldn’t call it a house sale.”
California’s housing market is closely watched because it is the nation’s biggest and helps fuel both the state’s economy and the U.S. building industry. With California still weighed down by economic problems, economists are looking at bellwethers such as housing to determine when California will rebound.
Of course, any long-term revival in housing will depend on California’s ability to shake off its high unemployment and the threat of more foreclosures. Some housing experts cautioned that inventories may be artificially low because many would-be sellers are waiting for the economy to improve before putting homes on the market.
“I’m convinced that once the general public believes prices have bottomed out and are coming up, more people will put their homes on the market,” said Andrew LePage, an analyst at MDA DataQuick, a housing-data provider in La Jolla, Calif. “And that will probably coincide with the economy and job market improving.”
Although most home prices remain well below their pre-bust highs of three years ago, California’s overall housing market has shown signs of stabilizing since early last year. The median price of an existing, single-family home rose 8.4% from a year ago to $306,820, marking the second consecutive year-over-year increase and the 10th straight month-over-month jump, according to estimates by the state Realtors’ association.
Sales rose at a slower year-over-year rate of 1.7%, compared with double-digit gains in recent months. Sales have been powered, in part, by a federal tax credit for first-time buyers, which Congress extended until the end of April.
Some brokers attributed the sales slowdown to lean inventories. “Right now, we need more listings,” said Lianne Pinkston, a Coldwell Banker broker in Morgan Hill, Calif., south of San Jose. “I have an all-cash investor, and they’ve wanted to buy a duplex or fourplex, and they’ve been making all-cash offers for over the asking price, and they’re still not getting anything.”
…
The view of the CA housing market from LA seems to be quite a contrast to the view from La Jolla!
LA Times Business
Housing bust keeps consuming California jobs
Construction and related industries take a big hit in 2009. Payrolls shrink again in December, though the unemployment rate stays at 12.4%.
By Alana Semuels
January 23, 2010
California employers cut more workers in December, capping a dismal year in which the state lost more than half a million jobs.
Payrolls shrank by 38,800, marking the worst month for job losses since September. The unemployment rate remained flat at 12.4%, but only because more than 100,000 workers left the labor force and are no longer counted. Many of them have given up looking for work or have moved out of state.
Economists expect the state’s labor market to remain weak this year largely because the bellwether housing sector continues to struggle. Over the last two years, California has lost more than 1 million jobs.
“It’s a discouraging report,” said Bill Watkins, executive director of the Center for Economic Research and Forecasting at California Lutheran University. “The recovery is not as robust as we’d like to see.”
The bursting of the housing bubble has battered California, which has seen tens of thousands of related jobs in financial services, retail and the building trades vanish. The construction sector has been pummeled particularly hard. California has shed more than 300,000 construction jobs — nearly one-third of the industry’s labor force — since the sector peaked at 948,500 jobs in February 2006, according to state figures.
Last year the state lost 116,100 construction jobs, the most in the nation.
“Construction jobs are a visible indicator of how well the economy is doing,” Watkins said. “We have no idea when they’re going to see relief.”
The state probably set a record in 2009 for the fewest homes produced in a single year, the California Building Industry Assn. said last month. Although the data are not yet final, the association forecast that 35,600 homes would be built in 2009, the lowest number since it began keeping track in 1954.
There are some glimmers of hope. Median home prices in California have been rising while inventories are shrinking, trends that could entice home builders to resume construction.
Still, a forecast released this week by the Associated General Contractors of America predicted there would be no recovery in the industry nationally or in California this year. Nearly 1 in 4 construction workers is unemployed, the Arlington, Va.-based trade group said.
“The job loss is pretty widespread and uniform,” said Brian Turmail, a spokesman for the trade group.
…
Does the California labor market situation suggest the underpinnings of a “real estate revival”? Perhaps so to the real estate investment religious cult whose followers fervently believe: “California real estate always goes up.”
State’s jobless rate stuck near record
Tens of thousands give up on looking
By Dean Calbreath, UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
Saturday, January 23, 2010 at 12:16 a.m.
California’s unemployment rate remained at a near-record 12.4 percent in December as tens of thousands of workers dropped out of the labor force, unable to find full-time jobs.
The jobless rate was unchanged between November and December even as employers shed 38,800 workers from their payrolls, according to data released yesterday by the California Employment Development Department.
In San Diego County, the unemployment rate fell from a revised 10.6 percent to 10.1 percent, related in part to seasonal retail hiring. Even with that holiday boost, however, the county lost 1,600 jobs.
The jobless rate grew in 43 states last month, a sharp contrast from November, when the unemployment declined in 34 states. Only Michigan, Nevada, Rhode Island and South Carolina had worse rates than California.
Economists say one reason California’s rate remained steady, instead of going up, is that many of the jobless have become so discouraged about finding full-time work that they either are working part-time or have stopped looking for work altogether — going back to school, entering job-training programs or biding their time until the economy improves.
“I think there are an awful lot of people doing that, particularly in households where they’re not the primary breadwinners,” said Alan Nevin, director of economic research at MarketPointe Realty Advisors in San Diego.
Beacon Economics, a research firm in Los Angeles, estimates that over the past three months, 106,000 Californians have dropped out of the full-time labor force and are not being counted among the unemployed. If they were, it said, the number of Californians unable to find full-time work would almost certainly be above 20 percent.
…
“I think there are an awful lot of people doing that, particularly in households where they’re not the primary breadwinners”
Imagine if millions of households suddenly caught on to the fact that it is not wise, or economically viable, to assume and plan on two incomes when it comes to buying a house. Imagine if laid-off moms and dads discovered the happiness that comes from caring for their own children, instead of dumping them at kiddie kennels a.k.a. day care centers. People might start downsizing their expectations, but their quality of life might actually improve.
+1, Sammy.
Anyone who thinks two incomes beats one needs to read Elizabeth Warren’s book: “The Two Income Trap: Why Middle-Class Mothers and Fathers Are Going Broke”
http://www.amazon.com/Two-Income-Trap-Middle-Class-Mothers/dp/0465090826
…the same Elizabeth Warren who is heading the TARP Oversight Committee.
The Two Income Trap reduced:
Two incomes do not equal one larger income, in part because it doubles your chance of unfortunate outcomes (job loss, medical issues, etc.) If you have two income workers but only one is the breadwinner (the other’s income being either banked or used for unimportant stuff, if it exists), if that breadwinner suffers a setback the second wage earner can step up to the plate.
Also pertinent is the cost of daycare and the fights over houses in acceptable school districts. Houses with similar setups and neighborhoods can be priced differently depending on the perception of the local schools.
—
Besides, the intangible of staying home with the kid is ENORMOUS. If something were to happen to my husband to make him incapable of working, I’d suck in my breath, get a certification (for about $100) and work my heart out to support the family. Much nicer for me to have very part-time work and just work days where my kid is watched by his ever-so-reluctant grandparents. (”GIMME KID!”)
Totally agree.
Professor Bear’s dumb hunches:
1) What we see now in the California housing market is a bank-engineered short squeeze on inventory.
2) The short-term impact is to reflate prices and bid wars; the long-term impact remains to be seen.
3) Whether the banks can collectively succeed in withholding inventory from the market until a labor market recovery is in place remains to be seen, but I suggest that is the plan.
4) Figuring out whether the inventory shortage is market driven or collusion driven is an ongoing source of fascination for enquiring minds who want to know.
I call BS regarding shrinking inventory. The game right now is the MLS isn’t showing the shadow inventory, which is 6-8x’s the MLS. One zip I’ve been tracking in So Ca shows 2.29 mos of inventory in the MLS, but in reality it’s 19.77 according to real data points.(Pasadena 91104)
I also believe the cash investors comment is an embellishment. The engineering of consent isn’t going to work in this broken economy.
Breaking News -
I have sighted the “First” DTLA condo being offered for under $100,000.
215 w7th st, #409 in a renovation bldg.
Last sold 8/15/08 $190,000
Most likely first sold 2005 for $350,000 (typical at the time)
Somebunny catched a falling chainsaw.
Professor Bear’s indicators of housing market recovery:
1) The DataQuicks and the Beacon Economics of the world hold hands, sing Kumbaya, and agree that “real estate is the worst investment.”
2) Everyone else agrees that “real estate is a lousy investment,” not just low-level Fed staffers.
3) California unemployment drops below 10 percent, despite the fact that hundreds of thousands who dropped out of the labor market are once again seeking employment.
4) The heads of several more nationally recognized REIC ‘experts’ are chopped off and roll, with their MSM-megaphone amplified voices never to be heard again.
5) The HBB’s resident PR team goes into permanent retirement.
Real curiosity there PB
Dumb questions of the day: Why is it that when a politician shows signs of taking meaningful action to restore a semblance of normalcy to the role of banks in the financial system, he is immediately labeled a “populist” by MSM commentators. Isn’t reinstating a rule of law in the banking system a necessary first step towards reestablishing trust? What is populist about establishing and maintaining a rule of law?
Whowouldathunk a lowly truck driver from Massachusetts could stir so much change? Geithner has been pointed toward the exit. Bernanke’s confirmation is increasingly in doubt. Add to that, Dodd’s resignation. The sheeple have woken.
More power to Massachusetts truck drivers who want to improve our government!!!
I think it is a matter of timing.
If “the one” had come into office and went after the bankers with the rules on the books, he would have been applauded.
But “the one” gave bailout after bailout (worth trillions) to the bankers and then the bankers turned around and gave themselves record bonues. And GS is one of his biggest campaign contributors.
Then “the one” lost a key senate race in one of the most safe of safest places and now sees a very dismal November mid term election coming.
So now he wants to “talk down” the bankers but has taken no action against them. This is being “populist” - trying to let the citizens he is on thier side (at least in talking points) after ignoring them for at least the last 12 months.
Yes, he’s definitely sacrificed Main Street for Wall Street.
Problem is, most people think that “saving Main Street” means mortgage cramdowns. Personally, I think saving Main Street means JOBS, and has nothing to do with housing (except that the PTB could hasten the foreclosure process/price decline so that prudent people could purchase the houses currently occupied by a bunch of deadbeat speculators, but that’s another story…).
Ca renter …+ 1000
This is all about show to me.He is trying to act tough to help fellow democrats who need re-election soon.The admistration has sold their soles to the banks.I wonder what share the administration got of the goldman bonuses?I am beginning to not trust a word they say anymore.Then the supreme court votes to allow more corporate campaign contributions.We are totally screwed.
Given a choice between populism and elitism I’d much prefer being labeled a populist.
A populist is not sure of all the answers.
He is an elistist trying to get the populist vote. He went to the best schools and got jobs based on affirmative action, connections and dirty politics. He and his wife spend more on bling and luxuries than most of the bankers he despises for their wealth and he has contributed nothing to society.
Carrie is obsessed.
He’s the King of Fools if he really believes that
J6p is going to go for him. Out on the street there is not one person that I know, lib or con,
who has one iota of respect for the clown. He
has shot his wad his first year and was found
wanting. An empty vessel.
mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
A populist is forgetting where his bread is buttered.
No one should be labeled anything for talking. Judge by results, not rhetoric.
PB, I have absolutely no fight with what I understand The One is trying to do here. Either take FDIC insurance on your deposits or trade for your own accounts but not both. You the bank can decide.
A partial restoration of Glass-Steagall. Let’s see how far it gets in Congress.
Thanks, and I sincerely appreciate your comment, as we often times seem to be on opposite sides of the debate here. By contrast, certain other regular posters seem to have a compulsion for adopting a contrary position on every issue that is discussed here. One has to wonder about what these guys stand for or whom they represent, as the absence of character on display reveals little.
Boy, Thing 1 and Thing 2 brought back some happy childhood memories of my mother reading to us. Thanks Bear. You brought a smile to my face. She’s been gone 5 1/2 years now and I miss her every day.
“Populism, defined either as an ideology, a political philosophy or a mere type of discourse, is a type of political-social thought which juxtaposes “the people” with the elites, urging social and political system changes and/or a rhetorical style deployed by members of political or social movements. It is defined by the Cambridge dictionary as political ideas and activities that are intended to represent ordinary people’s needs and wishes.”
Obamination is losing control over the masses. A wealthy elistist who made it through life on connections, dirty politics and affirmative action and associated with the infamous organization known simply as “ACORN”, is taking a stand against the banks to ignite class warfare and gain the support, among others, of those who feel cheated by not profiting from risky debt leverage that they voluntarily chose to incur, and to divert focus from his endless shortcomings. At the same time transferring wealth to the unions that drag down our society for votes and cash. You are right he is not really a populist. He is just a scumbag trying to pretend to be populist and use populist ideology as a weapon for his own personal agenda. He is against banks because they are trying to get out from under his bloody hands but is in favor of giving risky loans to people with bad credit. We need credit and liquidity for businesses to survive. The sick part is that if Obama does calm down unemployment will blow past 20%, yet he claims to be for the people whose lives he is destroying. It’s your choice to view him as a liar or a moron, but he is at least one.
A wealthy elistist who made it through life on connections,
I know! Word!
I coulda been president too if my daddy was African and my mom had a degree in anthropology.
It might even get you into Harvard and on law review without merit based competition. Have you even taken an unbiased looked at his political background, or do you make all of your decisions based on media outlets?
Clearly you haven’t. How about backing up your baseless rhetoric Txchick. (No you can’t hide)
Have you even taken an unbiased looked at his political background, or do you make all of your decisions based on
media outlets?emotion?Obama started out at Occidental College, which is an extremely rigorous school that makes a point of its egalitarianism entrance requirements. He transferred to Columbia as a junior. What on earth makes you think he was accepted to either based on affirmative action? His mind is by far the most facile of any US President since Richard Nixon.
And “Natalie?” He was ELECTED President of the Harvard Law Review by his PEERS on the review. JFYI.
And his core constituency who thought the whole world was going to change, like this woman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36×8rTb3jI
are going to be disappointed, too.
I’m a small businessman. While I’m liberal on social issues, I think the most important issues for government are fairness and a good climate for business. We have neither.
One of the two parties responsible for the economy–the banks–are being publicly flogged for foolish–but legal–behavior. While the folks who lied on their mortgage applications, and continue to lie for first-time-homeowner tax credits are being considered as model citizens. And who has to pay for all of this? The 5% of Americans who actually add value and pay the bulk of the taxes.
One of the two parties responsible for the economy–the banks–are being publicly flogged for foolish–but legal–behavior.
“foolish…behavior”
Tell it! I like your anger!
‘…foolish–but legal–behavior…”
Who is really to say what is legal in the upper stratosphere of the U.S. banking system? Do you recall Nixon’s famous line, “If The President Does It, That Means It’s Legal”? Doesn’t this standard of ‘legal’ pretty much also apply to Wall Street Megabank, Inc cartel members and their regulators throughout the duration of a financial crisis? Who would even stand to gain anything by enforcing any laws that might have been broken by recent actions to save the global financial system from outright collapse?
Notice that I am offering my comments in the form of questions so that posters here with superior understanding of these issues can have the chance to enlighten the rest of us peasants.
renven. While I happen to believe that Wall Street /Lenders were criminal in their marketing of CDO securities and they breached all duty to be fiduciary with billions of funds deposited for lending ,I do believe that the borrowers/REIC fraud also played a huge role in the debacle .
At the time of the boom rates were low and CD’s were paying a low rate ,thanks to the Feds . People were looking for a investment that had similar safety to FDIC insured funds ,but had higher yields .
Wall Street provided this false security with higher yields by the Mortgage Backed securities in which the AAA ratings were actually false on the risk . This was high risk lending junk paper that was just not based on anything that came close to proper risk ratings . You can’t say that the paper was good because real estate always goes up .
Had it not been for that crime of misrepresentation of securities marketed the fraud infested lending would not of been available to begin with . Had Wall Street/Lenders
not failed in their duty to underwrite the loans and prevent fraud the false market would of been curbed .
Instead you got fraudulent borrowers competing with each other that drove up the market price .Even when the loan borrower was not dishonest ,the loan product itself was not viable in it’s underwriting requirements in that they qualified at
the teaser rate ,which is a defective loan product and the highest risk possible because your betting on a unknown,that the income will go up to eventually qualify the borrower (or the real estate going up will cover them ).
Loans are suppose to be made based on current value and the ‘
ability for the borrower to afford the loan by qualifying in the now ,not in the future .I could go on and on ,but Wall Street came up with bogus loans that would fail . If you provide something that will fail ,aren’t you the responsible party ?
I don’t like the greedy mania liar borrowers either ,and again moral hazard has been thrown aside and the culprits from the
Wall Street Top down to greedy mania borrowers and equity extractors have been excused of their part and even rewarded .
Today, as quoted in the New York Times, Barack H. Obama stated that he will try to re-inflate the housing bubble:
The president used the word “fight,” or some version of it, more than 20 times.
Mr. Obama vowed to “never stop fighting for policies that will help restore home values.” He promised that he was “not going to stop fighting to give our kids the best education possible.” He pledged he would not “stop fighting to give every American a fair shake,” to continue fighting for a new Consumer Protection Agency and for openness in government. And of course, Mr. Obama pledged to fight for jobs.
I presume by “home values” he means “home prices.”
I don’t see how re-inflating home-prices will give every American a fair shake. It certainly doesn’t help people looking to buy a home they could truly afford. And it doesn’t help me, a true homeowner with a 100% paid-up house: all it means is I’ll have property tax inflation.
Barack Obama doesn’t care about working people or taxes.
Can you sight to evidence that this was one his platforms while running even though the cat was well out of the bag at that time (I was thinking about it around 2002 as home prices were skyrocketing and securitizations started going through the roof while he was threatening anyone that wouldnt make risky loans to people with poor credit)? I remember not voting for him because he wouldnt or couldnt discuss financial issues intelligently. This is a desperate attempt to gain support for those feeling disenfranchised and not realizing most of the masses can see through it. I am one of the many Democrats that demand he be replaced next election. He is not populist but is trying to get the populist vote.
sight = cite
Natalie -
It’s good to hear a Democrat talk this way openly.
I hope you decide to attend future Tea Party gatherings if you haven’t done so already. I’ve met several died-in-the-wool Democrats at Tea Party gatherings here in Colorado and have had good conversations with them, despite the reality that I’m an Evil Libertarian/Conservative/Capitalist hybrid.
All of us need to take responsibility for changing the ongoing mess that is Washington, DC. We can do better than this, and should demand better. That’s what the Tea Party movement is about. Those who think otherwise clearly haven’t taken part in it. It isn’t partisan. It’s anti-Federalism.
More power should revert to the states, where issues can be addressed and more politicians’ feet can be held to the fire by those they are supposed to serve.
I want less of this “Command From on High” attitude that prevails in this country. Wanna lead? Do what Washington did. Get on a horse and ride with the serfs.
I missed the banking industry’s trial, and the court’s throwing the case out because banks are above the law. When did this occur?
What laws did the banks break and have permission to ignore?
of course, i know this is just about your suspicions and accusations.. and as soon as we elect you King, that’s all you’ll need.
It’s great to see you posting today, as I have a few questions for the HBB lending industry PR tag team:
1) Should last week’s stock market selloff be considered a green shoot indicator that the economic recovery is gathering steam?
2) Has the stock market bottomed out at this point?
3) Would this be a good time to buy the dip?
4) Is the California real estate market going to follow the powerful recovery which is gathering strength in the housing market and the stock market?
Thanks for sharing your excellent and honest opinions, and also for sharing more information about myself that I never realized — for instance that I have a secret desire to be King.
The sophomoric trolling never fails to delight. Don’t risk spoiling your image by answering a question once in a while..
“The sophomoric trolling never fails to delight.”
I guess that explains the HBB trolling PR tag team’s unflagging persistence in the endeavor.
Did you catch this article in a recent edition of The Economist? It sounds like there has never been a better time to be in the PR (prostitution) business. You really should give it a go, as you definitely have a knack for it.
Public relations in the recession
Good news
Other firms’ suffering has bolstered the public-relations business
Jan 14th 2010 | NEW YORK
From The Economist print edition
…
Perhaps the best indication of PR’s growing importance is the attention it is attracting from regulators. They are worried that PR firms do not make it clear enough that they are behind much seemingly independent commentary on blogs and social networks. In October America’s Federal Trade Commission published new guidelines for bloggers, requiring them to disclose whether they had been paid by companies or received free merchandise. Further regulation is likely. But that will not hamper PR’s growth, says Jim Rutherfurd of VSS. After all, companies that fall foul of the rules will need the help of a PR firm.
“What laws did the banks break and have permission to ignore?”
Have you perhaps ever heard of a law called the Sherman Antitrust Act?
“The Sherman Act
John Sherman (1823-1900) was the younger brother of the American Civil War general William Tecumseh Sherman. He became a U.S. senator from Ohio and served as a chairman of the Senate finance committee. He also served as a member of the U.S. Cabinet, including Secretary of State under President William McKinley and Secretary of the Treasury under President Hayes. Sherman was an expert on the regulation of commerce and was the chief author of the Sherman Antitrust Act.
This ground breaking piece of legislation was the result of intense public opposition to the concentration of economic power in large corporations and in combinations of business concerns (i,e., trusts) that had been taking place in the U.S. in the decades following the Civil War. Opposition to the trusts was particularly strong among farmers, who protested the high charges for transporting their products to the cities by railroad.
The Sherman Antitrust Act was the first measure enacted by the U.S. Congress to prohibit trusts (or monopolies of any type). Although several states had previously enacted similar laws, they were limited to intrastate commerce. The Sherman Antitrust Act, in contrast, was based on the constitutional power of Congress to regulate interstate commerce. It was passed by an overwhelming vote of 51 to 1 in the Senate and a unanimous vote of 242 to 0 in the House, and it was signed into law by President Benjamin Harrison.”
Luckily, efforts are currently underway to ensure U.S. banks are in compliance.
BBC News
Obama to break up banks
Robert Peston | 17:38 UK time, Thursday, 21 January 2010
Banking reforms do not come bigger than those proposed today by President Obama.
In an echo of the break up of banks that was imposed in the United States after the Great Depression, he wants a limit on their overall size and he also wants them banned from three activities that in recent years have been central to many of them.
He is pushing for them to be prohibited from involvment in hedge funds, from buying and selling whole companies in what’s known as private equity and from buying and selling securities for their own benefit on so-called proprietary trading desks.
In simple terms, he wants to prevent banks from taking speculative risks to generate colossal profits, while knowing that if their bets go wrong taxpayers will pick up the bill.
It means that some of the biggest banks in the US - from Bank of America, to JP Morgan and even Goldman Sachs - may have to be broken up.
…
“Don’t risk spoiling your image by answering a question once in a while…”
That is a telling response to the four questions I asked you.
“What laws did the banks break and have permission to ignore?”
I am not sure whether killing puppies and kittens is exactly illegal, but certainly it is morally repugnant.
Pets in the recession
Howls for help
Hard times have left many pets homeless
Jan 21st 2010 | NEW YORK
From The Economist print edition
Getty Images The unwanted
EARLIER this month the head of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, a non-profit organisation, wrote to Goldman Sachs. Animal shelters, the letter said, are struggling to cope with a surge in the number of pets that have been abandoned because their owners have fallen on hard times. Maybe Goldman executives should give their big bonuses to the dogs? Sadly, it looks unlikely.
As the number of job losses and foreclosures has mounted over the past two years, some people have chosen to surrender their animals, unable to afford pet food let alone veterinary care. Many have brought their dogs and cats to shelters. Some have been less kind, chaining them to fences or locking them inside their foreclosed homes. One kitten was even left in a mailbox in Boston.
…
The Humane Society of the United States estimates that around 6m-8m cats and dogs end up in shelters each year. Only half are adopted. The rest are put down. There is some concern that even more are being put to sleep now, because shelters do not have the space or money to keep alive animals that have not been adopted. Fewer people are coming forward to adopt as well, presumably because they cannot afford to.
…
“After all, companies that fall foul of the rules will need the help of a PR firm.”
This reminds me of a question I have for Joey or anyone else who might have the data?
Can anyone who knows provide information on what share of all PR spending is done by financial service sector firms versus all other firms in the economy?
Goldman did say it was going to double-up its PR efforts.
You don’t suspect Gollum Sucks would send PR staffers to blog here, do you?
Joey ,I would say that during the boom times one of the biggest breaches the Wall Street Lenders made was marketing high risk f paper as if it was AAA investment grade . Without these improper ratings as well as the breach in duty to underwrite loans and prevent fraud ,and not create defective loan product ,
the market would of required higher down payments and higher interest rates for such high risk junk paper . A lawyer could make a case against these lenders and securities sellers for creating a Ponzi =scheme with all these breaches in fiduciary duty .You can’t just say that you didn’t see it coming to explain away marketing junk and breaching duty on quality assurance . You can’t just put a product on the market and call it a loan when the borrower would have no reasonable ability to pay back that loan by the way you qualify and than call it AAA paper. No different than putting a defective car with break problems on the market .
The bail-outs prevented a lot of the discovery on just how
breaching of fiduciary duty that this greed lending was combined with all the leverage and the gross misrepresentations of the risk of the product ,add to that breaching duty to underwrite or prevent fraud .
Wall street has totally destroyed the credit markets by their foul play and leverage games playing Lender . Its all about what you do with money you receive by the markets for investments . Are you any less liable if you come up with bogus risk models and loan product and don’t underwrite it just so you can make a lot of money on others peoples money . GS went so far as to bet against the very AAA investments they were putting their customers into .
Add to all this that Wall Street was making counter bets on this junk that was backed by Insurance Companies without funds to pay and we also bailed out that casino game . In other words you give your investor a false feeling of confidence when you say something is insured .
There was so much money coming in for lending (based on assurances and ratings)that Wall Street actions defined the real estate market and made it into a fraudulent lending market and a false value market . CEO’s like Mozillo even sought to pump and dump his stock when he knew that his Companies easy money lending was failing . The Bails Out’s created the biggest Obstruction of Justice in American History financial markets .I don’t think there would be a lot of people on a jury that would accept the bogus defense that they didn’t see it coming . They just took the risk that their sins wouldn’t be discovered because the market would level out rather than crash ,but their sins were assurance that there would be a crash and massive destruction as all crimes
end up creating . Call it fraud ,call it breach of fiduciary duty ,call it a Ponzi -scheme ,call it greed ,but don’t call it acceptable and not actionable the civil or criminal courts .
Yes, we’re all very familiar with the various and sundry accusations. I won’t waste the effort here, but I am sure I can come up with a plausible defense to every charge you’ve made, and then some.
We lay claim to being a nation of laws, and that must work both ways. You may be accused, but are innocent until proven guilty in a court. I recommend you extend that courtesy to others, lest it becomes a fad, and YOU lose your right to a fair trial due to popular demand..
If being accused of a crime in the blogosphere had any meaning or substance, we’d all be drawn and quartered by now. The incessant chatter in here claiming that the financial industry is somehow guilty and responsible for all our economic woes is so obviously shortsighted and unfair that I’m surprised so many intelligent and thoughtful people simply choose to accept it as the cold truth.
Expressing opinions is fine, but it’s kinda sad to see so much bandwidth being wasted on things that are beyond our reach and authority. Let the courts handle it. They will get around to it… maybe not as fast as some would like, but just like this bubble deflation is turning out to be, the wheels of justice are well known to turn slowly.
Joey ,you don’t get to Justice if you have a cover up and a bail out . If you give a thief the money to pay back the party it
took from that party doesn’t even know that a crime was committed .
Joey ..You started this conservation by saying …”name one law that the banks break and have permission to ignore ?” Now when you get a response you twist it around and accuse your responders of unjustly attacking the Banks that haven’t gone to Court yet . You also are pretty stupid if you think that the bail-outs didn’t prevent discovery of the infractions . Than you cop out by saying in essence that any comments about this debacle
regarding ill-gotten gains that resulted in a lot of damage to innocent people is beyond our reach and authority .Than you cap off your argument with some BS about the wheels of justice are well know to turn slowly . Oh, is that why they have statues on laws so they won’t move slowly?
Sometimes Justice never comes about because its covered up by bail-outs and rewriting the laws retroactive .
“Now when you get a response you twist it around and accuse your responders of unjustly attacking the Banks that haven’t gone to Court yet.”
HW — I hate to break it to you, but that’s what PR guys do for a living.
Pretty sucky, neh?
“…but I am sure I can come up with a plausible defense to every charge you’ve made, and then some.”
BwaHaHaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
“Joey ,you don’t get to Justice if you have a cover up and a bail out .”
That’s right, but it doesn’t always work out that way. Look what happened to poor Kenny Boy at Enron, for instance…
Actually PB, I think there is an entry point into the stock market here. There are sell-offs and reversals even in the midst of secular bull markets. The stock market never goes straight up. Being retired however, we choose not to put our assets at risk. Instead, we’re on the SWAN plan (sleep well at night).
“Instead, we’re on the SWAN plan (sleep well at night).”
I put my (retired) dad on the same plan back in spring 2007, when I implored him to cash out of all his stocks — and not a moment too soon, either!
Nice PB ,I bet you feel good about that one . I saved a few friends of mine but some of my friends wouldn’t listen .I would of sold my real estate ,but when you have a sick wife who doesn’t want to move there are just some things you don’t do .
It’s also livable for me because I can afford the payment and I really qualified at the low fix rate that I got at the time .
I’m not going to walk just because the value is down . I made my decisions and I’m going to live with them . It’s just that the
place is to big for me now (about 2,000 sq. ft.) and I would really rather live in a 500 square foot box right now in my life ,now that I’m alone . Everybody tells me to not do anything major for at least a couple years after a death .But ,I don’t have any problems compared to the unemployed ,the people in Haiti ,and all the other people that have been
royally compromised because of this financial debacle or some other unfortunate event that wasn’t of their own doing .
I hope that your life gets a little better each day, HW. I know nothing can replace your true love, but I still wish you a measure of happiness.
“I know nothing can replace your true love, but I still wish you a measure of happiness.”
Here’s to hoping HW enjoys sweet dreams of remembering his true love every night.
Thanks . Life does get better little by little in terms of just getting use to it . Life goes on and I didn’t mean to bitch about
what happened to me ,I guess it just comes out sometimes .
You’re not “bitching” about it. You’re expressing your feelings. Those of us who have had the tremendous fortune of finding great happiness and love in our marriages know how hard it must be. IMHO, there is no greater sorrow, with the possible exception of losing a child; but when losing a child, one hopes there is a spouse to lean on and with whom you can share the sorrow. When you lose a beloved spouse, you lose the one person you so desperately need to turn to in your darkest hours.
I also wish you a measure of happiness with passing day.
A lawyer could make a case against these lenders and securities sellers for creating a Ponzi =scheme with all these breaches in fiduciary duty
The bail-outs prevented a lot of the discovery on just how
breaching of fiduciary duty that this greed lending was combined with all the leverage and the gross misrepresentations of the risk of the product ,add to that breaching duty to underwrite or prevent fraud .
Thank you HW!
That is what many apologists want to hide under the rug forever. But ya know what? More of this stuff is going to see the light of day. It’s a joke to me that so-called “capitalists” are defending FRAUD. It’s the rule of law that makes capitalism function!
Banks and Wall Street engaged in serious FRAUD. I want those clowns de-fanged and I don’t give a hoot if the DOW drops 40% because in the LONG RUN America is better off with a more honest system. A dis-honest system will ruin us!
A man who gives up justice for prosperity will, in the end, have neither. (sorry Ben Franklin)
Well said Rio and I agree 100 % with your comments .
Ditto that.
An investigation must be conducted to answer the question of what laws were broken.
January 21, 2010, 7:17 am
An Antitrust Investigation of the Banks?
By SIMON JOHNSON
Today’s Economist
Simon Johnson is a professor at M.I.T.’s Sloan School of Management and a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics.
Alex Wong/Getty Images
In the aftermath of the Massachusetts special election, the White House is set to announce a major change of strategy on financial reform, with the president to propose new legislation that will limit the size and complexity of banks.
Such legislation is unlikely to pass the Senate. In fact, the approach to financial reform before Tuesday, crafted by Senator Christopher J. Dodd with the blessing of the White House, was to trade away some parts of the House bill — including perhaps the potential new consumer protection agency for financial products — in return for sufficient Republican support to pass a bill in the next month or two.
But fresh from their success in the Democratic heartland, the Republicans will be less inclined than before to compromise in any meaningful way. They may keep negotiating, but the Senate Democratic choice will quickly become: pass a law with little sensible content, or don’t pass anything and look ineffectual.
Fortunately, there is an alternative — one laid out neatly by Krishna Guha of The Financial Times on Tuesday. Instead of pursuing the issue of those “too big to fail” financial institutions exclusively through legislation, the administration could begin instead one or more serious antitrust investigations into the behavior of our biggest banks.
…
President Obama’s move may be seen as an attempt to curry popular favour following the loss of Ted Kennedy’s old Massachusetts Senate seat, but Mr Volcker’s motivation has not been called into question. Not only has his position on this issue been consistent, he also has a track record of pursuing difficult policies. His tough anti-inflation stance as Fed chairman did not always go down well, but he reined in double-digit inflation with the help of high interest rates. After leaving the Fed, he chaired a series of high-profile investigations, for example, digging into Swiss bank accounts in the late 1990s to find money owed to holocaust victims and exposing corruption in the United Nations’ oil-for-food programme.
Telegraph — Paul Volcker: the ‘big man’ behind BO’s bank reform
He was also warning about the leverage and bubbles long before Bernanke was claiming it was “contained,” IIRC. Thumbs up on Volcker.
Is there any chance the next Treasury Secretary might be chosen from outside the ranks of Megabank, Inc or Federal Reserve Bank alumni?
A Rift at the Fed Over the Bailout of A.I.G.
By LOUISE STORY and GRETCHEN MORGENSON
Published: January 22, 2010
New documents submitted to Congressional investigators examining the 2008 rescue of the American International Group show that officials at the Federal Reserve were deeply divided over the structure of the bailout and its long-term implications.
At the same time, regulators had to contend with major banks that were A.I.G.’s trading partners and were unwilling to accept a discount from the government when closing out the contracts the banks had struck with the insurance giant.
Ultimately, the government decided to make the banks whole on the contracts, a decision that the documents say was approved by Timothy F. Geithner, the Treasury secretary who, at the time, was president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.
The Fed’s decision to pay A.I.G.’s trading partners in full on tens of billions of dollars in contracts has been controversial because many analysts say they believe the government could have negotiated a price for a fraction of that amount, reducing taxpayer funds used in the rescue. Similar contracts were being settled at heavy discounts in other deals where the government was not involved.
Last Thursday, Thomas C. Baxter Jr., the New York Fed’s general counsel, told Congressional investigators of his frustration with the banks, according to committee staff notes obtained by The New York Times.
“We asked for concessions, and they said no,” he said, according to the notes. “I wonder why we even bothered.” Mr. Baxter also said that Mr. Geithner verbally approved the decision to pay full price to the banks.
…
Let’s see….Chris Dodd is going to Sec. Treasury….that leaves Barney Frank for Fed Chairman?
How about Warren Buffett? He wouldn’t take the job voluntarily, so why don’t we bring back the draft? Draft him into the Army as a private, pay him a private’s salary, and order him to run the Federal Reserve.
‘I think you have to change the incentives,’ Buffett said on the cable news channel. ‘It’s nice to have carrots but you need sticks. The idea that some guy is worth $500 million and leaves and only has $50 million, that’s not much of a stick. There ought to be a huge downside. I would send CEOs of failed banks to Gitmo for re-education under the lash of the CIA’s black waterboarding organization.’
[Part of the above quote is real, although I added the last sentence from my own thoughts. Ya gotta love Buffett!]
“We asked for concessions, and they said no,” he said, according to the notes. “I wonder why we even bothered.” Mr. Baxter also said that Mr. Geithner verbally approved the decision to pay full price to the banks.
—————————–
I can’t help but wonder why we (the taxpayers) had to pay them anything at all. Were those CDSs govt-backed? I highly doubt it. Those counterparty risks are the risks the banks accepted when they made their bets. Lots of people were warning about the counterparty risk, why weren’t they listening (or did they just “assume” the govt would make them whole in the event the issuer failed?)?
Just because something happens to be populist doesn’t mean it can’t still be right. But I get your point, if a course of action is “populist” in the MSM view, the clear inference is that the unwashed are getting restless.
So be it. Without restless unwashed masses, expect business as usual on Wall Street.
Eventually the denial phase of the housing bubble stages of grief will inexorably give way to the anger phase.
Let’s just hope that anger is directed at those that overpaid and took on enormous amounts of debt, but i suspect the anger will actually come from such people because they refuse to accept personal responsibility. I for one see no ethical problem selling an investment product to meet demand even though you would not invest in it yourself or actually bet against it. Unless there is fraud, the seller does not represent the buyer and thus should have no moral or legal obligation to the buyer. Everyone has their own degree of risk tolerence and future predictions.
Let’s just hope that anger is directed at those that overpaid and took on enormous amounts of debt,
lol, But I don’t think that’s the way it’s gonna play out.
but i suspect the anger will actually come from such people because they
refuse to accept personal responsibility. got really hosed?I for one see no ethical problem selling an investment product to meet demand even though you would not invest in it yourself or actually bet against it.
That’s quite a revealing statement.
Do you really believe that for-profit businesses should violate their duties to shareholders and pursue some sort of moral higher good, or, as I suspect, are you just playing devil’s advocate? I don’t even think you believe most the things you say, but just try it for shock value and/or to instigate.
Do you really believe that for-profit businesses should violate their duties to shareholders and pursue some sort of moral higher good,
Your postings become more revealing of your underlying values and loyalties which is fine. It’s good to know where you are coming from.
I don’t even think you believe most the things you say, but just try it for shock value and/or to instigate.
You’ve got to be KIDDING me. I find your perception unbelievable. I back up my postings with many links and I try to use the best logic that I can. What you just said makes no sense and I can’t see how you could believe it.
As far as where I am coming from, I believe EVERYTHING I say. Believe it.
Sometimes I ASK questions. Sometimes I make jokes (good or bad) but I think their humor makes my positions obvious.
I don’t think I’ve ever posted anything that can be considered “shocking” or anything that a lot of people didn’t agree with.
Could you give me an example of anything I ever posted that you feel was just to instigate or shock? Or that you don’t think I believe??
Please do and I will address it.
I seriously don’t think you will.
Could you give me an example of anything I ever posted that you feel was just to instigate or shock? Or that you don’t think I believe??
Please do and I will address it.
I seriously don’t think you will.
8 hours later…….nothing.
That’s what I thought…
Hey Rio,
i’ve read a zillion of your posts and i find them all to be well thought out commentaries, intellectually provocative is a good thing.
We all have the right to rant from time to time when something really gets our goat, animation is a good thing.
see that’s two “things” but i don’t have PB’s link!
Rio, you are consistently one of the most thoughtful, reasoned posters on this board. Certainly one of the best-written and informed. And I still haven’t seen an overtly partisan post out of you in the months you’ve been sharing them with us.
I love reading your perspective on the various topics that get thrown into this lions’ pit, and you willingness to confront them with humor and real life narrative.
Tempest in a teapot here.
Not even sure what this is about….?
Ditto what ahansen wrote. (but you already knew that)
Thanks all. I appreciate that!
“…anger…directed at…”
Don’t expect blind rage to be sensibly focused; it won’t be.
“should have no moral or legal obligation to the buyer”
like selling crack, but not using it. Hey, I’m only meeting the market’s demands.
I would hardly consider mortgages and mortgage derivatives an addictive drug. If someone wants to be a greedy speculator, it’s not a seller’s role to tell them they are ignorant. If you had a house that you think should be valued at 300k but ppl are lined up to give you 600k, is it your duty to say you wont take a penny over 300k? Same applies to investment banks. If there is fraud there is fraud, but if not . . .
If someone wants to be a
greedy speculator,predatory bank, it’s not aseller’sborrowers role totell them they are ignorant.regulate, it’s the government.Oh wait, I forgot the Banks own the government.
I wonder if anyone here who considers Natalie immoral (or amoral) has ever sold property (like real estate) for a profit. If so, using your logic, then you, too, are immoral.
“Oh wait, I forgot the Banks own the government.”
They also own the First Amendment right to
bribe politiciansfreedom of speech.Is there a difference between Halliburton making a campaign finance contribution and SEIU making a campaign finance contribution? How about AARP?
“Is there a difference between Halliburton making a campaign finance contribution and SEIU making a campaign finance contribution? How about AARP?”
I frankly have no idea.
Nonetheless, subject to the disclaimer that I have not studied the law, I personally find the Supreme Court’s redefinition of ’speech’ to include money flows highly bizarre. The dictionary definition of speech says nothing about bribery.
From Merriam-Webster dot com:
Main Entry: speech
Pronunciation: \ˈspēch\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English speche, from Old English sprǣc, spǣc; akin to Old English sprecan to speak — more at speak
Date: before 12th century
1 a : the communication or expression of thoughts in spoken words b : exchange of spoken words : conversation
2 a : something that is spoken : utterance b : a usually public discourse : address
3 a : language, dialect b : an individual manner or style of speaking
4 : the power of expressing or communicating thoughts by speaking
Can someone please point out where anything in the definition of “speech” covers corporate political bribery? I’m missing it. And I am guessing the founding fathers of our country would also have missed it.
“I for one see no ethical problem selling an investment product to meet demand even though you would not invest in it yourself or actually bet against it.”
What if the seller created and had the security rated AAA — as good as Treasuries (cough) — then sold it to a Fireman’s pension fund or some unsuspecting school board while simultaneously betting against it, would that be okay with you?
Comment by Natalie
2010-01-23 13:09:57
Do you really believe that for-profit businesses should violate their duties to shareholders and pursue some sort of moral higher good,
“I for one see no ethical problem selling an investment product to meet demand even though you would not invest in it yourself or actually bet against it. ”
I for one see no ethical problem selling toys full of lead, mercury, and radioactive dust to children.
I for one see no problem selling a car with a major mechanical problem that I know about to a teen ager needing a car, without informing them or their parent.
I for one see no problem selling toxic drywall that was cheaper to make to home builders.
Your a real piece of work.
‘re
“I for one see no ethical problem selling an investment product to meet demand even though you would not invest in it yourself or actually bet against it.”
Suggested Goldman Sachs investment opportunity warning label:
‘Purchasing shares of this security may result in falling knife investment losses which could be harmful to your financial health, but very, very good for ours.’
I for one have a problem with junk securities rated AAA grade quality that would cause investment funds to be directed into that fund that would normally not have those funds directed into those funds had the risk been rated at its proper rating.
Housing Wizard: You are the best. Whenever I read one of your posts, I think to myself, “Thank God that there is at least one honest man left in America!”
Chase Bank just sent me an offer.
They’ll give me $100 if I open a checking account with them by March 16th.
Could the “fire your bank” movement be picking up steam?
Dont forget they will send you a 1099 for $100 in interest income.Trust me on this one.
hmm… how should they do it.. Offer $126.53 to open an account?
“… and we pay the taxes!”
i like it..
Wimpey offer: “I’ll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.”
Capital One has an offer to my mom (retired) for $300 if she opens a checking account with Social Security direct deposit. I took her to the local branch and she opened it. The $300 should be in the mail soon.
They’ve been doing this in Chicago on-off for at least 2 years. Nothing new.
I say open it then close it a week later.
Good information from cbsnews about when/how Volcker increased his positioning and communicated his desire to curtail investing by banks. Not bad for 83 years old:
To make his case, he (Volcker) met with lawmakers on Capitol Hill and gave numerous speeches on the subject, traveling to at least nine cities on several continents to warn that banks had developed “unmanageable conflicts of interest” as they made investments for clients and themselves simultaneously.
“We ought to have some very large institutions whose primary purpose is a kind of fiduciary responsibility to service consumers, individuals, businesses and governments by providing outlets for their money and by providing credit,” he said during one speech in Toronto. “They ought to be the core of the credit and financial system. Those institutions should not engage in highly risky entrepreneurial activity.”
Gradually, Volcker picked up allies. John Reed, the former chairman of Citigroup, expressed his public support. So did Mervyn King, governor of the Bank of England.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/22/politics/washingtonpost/main6128662.shtml
dictionary.com…
Pop⋅u⋅lism /ˈpɒpyəˌlɪzəm/
–noun 1. the political philosophy of the People’s party.
2. (lowercase) any of various, often antiestablishment or anti-intellectual political movements or philosophies that offer unorthodox solutions or policies and appeal to the common person rather than according with traditional party or partisan ideologies.
3. (lowercase) grass-roots democracy; working-class activism; egalitarianism.
4. (lowercase) representation or extolling of the common person, the working class, the underdog, etc.: populism in the arts.
Populism smells like left wing economics of blue collar workers, but can be combined with southern religion, as in Mike Huckabee. Nothing in populism appeals to me.
From Wikipedia: “It is defined by the Cambridge dictionary as ‘political ideas and activities that are intended to represent ordinary people’s need and wishes’.”
But some of us are bored by “ordinary” people.
Almost half the people are less than ordinary.
And like the children of Lake Wobegon, the other half are all above average.
I can safely say that I am both less than ordinary and above average. That doesn’t seem to impress most people, though, unless I offer to buy them lunch.
Populism:unorthodox solutions or policies and appeal to the common person (Middle Class?) rather than according with traditional party or partisan ideologies.
I can understand why right now will see a rise of populism. Thinking about the above definition I’m wondering where the “traditional parties or partisan ideologies” have gotten us?
Populism can only add some balance to a well entrenched and corrupt system that has forgotten the middle-class and the middle class is now the “common man” because we are by far the majority.
The “common man” today should not be associated with someone out of “Deliverance” because that stereotype is not even close to being the majority. The nature of the “common man” has changed greatly since the populist era of Huey Long. We, the middle class, are now the “common man.”
The shrinking middle class currently has very little power or recognition and has been forgotten the past 30 years. Does not the majority of American’s deserve a stronger voice in government? Do the elites or what some smugly refer to as the “productive class” give a damn about the common man? The middle-class? The record says no.
So if one believes the majority should have a greater voice why would they not be supportive of populism as a tool to add some balance to a grossly unbalanced system?
I don’t see much of a threat in the movement and I don’t fear it as I don’t fear the far left nor the far right. They all just add some balance and some amusing quotes every once in awhile.
+1
None of the dictionary definition of populism seems to have much with stopping Wall Street pirates from robbing Main Street blind. It appears the Wall Street PR machine needs to find a better moniker.
Funny, I was watching a tenant move out of one of two office buildings in Nort Palm Beach Fl. yesterday that are now nearly empty. They were full last year.
By Adam Playford
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 12:25 p.m. Friday, Jan. 22, 2010
Federal stimulus money spent by the state resulted in nearly 88,000 jobs in 2009, according to new estimates from the Florida Office of Economic Recovery.
In addition, early figures from a recent White House Council of Economic Advisers report suggest that the stimulus’ total job impact in Florida — including money not allocated to the state — may have hit 128,800 jobs by the end of the year, said Don Winstead, Florida’s stimulus adviser.
The White House report showed Florida had the fourth-highest job impact of any state in the country, behind California, New York and Texas.
Both of these figures are estimates, calculated with complex economic formulas and are likely to change as more precise numbers come in, Winstead cautioned.
Even at the height of the tourist season, employers are running lean
By Jeff Ostrowski
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Updated: 5:58 p.m. Friday, Jan. 22, 2010
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The region’s employment picture brightened a bit in December, but labor experts see little hope that the usual tourist-season hiring spree will boost a job market suffering its worst doldrums in 35 years.
Typically, retailers, hoteliers and restaurateurs gear up for the holidays and tourist season by hiring seasonal workers. This year, though, those once-reliable employers are keeping employment levels “close to the bone,” said Dave Semadeni of the Palm Beach County Hotel and Lodging Association.
“(Hotels) have held off,” Semadeni said. “People are not willing to take employees on if they’re not sure they’re going to need them.”
Reflecting the weakness in the economy, the average daily room rate at Palm Beach County hotels fell from $149 in December 2008 to $135 in December 2009, said Roger Amidon, executive director of the Tourist Development Council.
“The real drag is our average daily rate,” Amidon said. “That’s down significantly, which then prevents hotels from achieving their profit goals.”
No profits mean no hiring, which in turn means housekeepers are cleaning more rooms and managers are working longer hours, Amidon said.
Patrick Cannan, spokesman for the non-profit Workforce Alliance, likewise has noticed little seasonal hiring. Aside from some temporary jobs at UPS before the holiday rush, he sees employers making do with the workers they have.
Palm Beach County retailers employed 2,400 fewer workers in December compared to a year earlier, while employment in the leisure and hospitality sector fell by 4,000, according to state statistics.
Even so, the region’s jobless levels fell a bit from November to December, the Florida Agency for Workforce Innovation said Friday. Palm Beach County’s jobless rate dipped to 11.5 percent from 11.7 percent in November.
Martin County unemployment fell to 12.4 percent from 12.5 percent a month earlier. St. Lucie County’s jobless rate dropped to 14.2 percent in December from 14.6 percent in November.
St. Lucie County had the third-highest unemployment rate among the state’s 67 counties.
Florida’s seasonally adjusted jobless rate rose to 11.8 percent in December from 11.5 percent in November. State unemployment remained at its highest rate since 1975.
From retailers to shipping companies to the Post Office, there was little seasonal hiring this year in Florida or anywhere in the nation, said Craig Thomas, senior economist at PNC Financial Services Group in Pittsburgh.
“None of them stepped up and hired anywhere near what they typically do,” Thomas said. “A lot of businesses that deal directly with consumers have been running pretty lean.”
Florida’s once-healthy job market continued to pile up grim numbers.
The state shed 232,400 jobs from December 2008 to December 2009. Construction was the biggest loser, dropping 59,900 jobs. The trade, transportation, and utilities sector lost 50,800 jobs, while professional and business services shed 40,500 jobs.
“Generally, it’s a pretty lousy report across the board,” Thomas said. “It really is hard to be upbeat looking at numbers like this.”
Legislative economist Amy Baker predicted earlier this week that Florida will lag behind the rest of the nation in recovering from the latest recession. Baker said Florida’s unemployment will likely peak at 12 percent later this year.
“We wish it were going in the other direction, obviously,” Gov. Charlie Crist said.
Florida’s jobless rate of 11.8 percent is well above the national unemployment of 10 percent, but most states have seen jobless rates soar. Unemployment rose in 43 states last month, a sharp change from November, when 36 states said their unemployment rates fell.
The Associated Press contributed to this story.
So the town I live in basically has all the rules HOAs do, but you don’t pay extra for it and they are reasonable (no junk storage, no cars on blocks, no overnight street parking, etc.). The result is that it is much nicer than the adjacent areas.
The lady across the street has been having a garage sale every FREAKING weekend for the last, I don’t know… forever. Today I had had enough and I was going to call code enforcement, but it turns out she lives in Largo and not Belleair Bluffs. I never, ever, ever, would have considered a garage sale a nuisance, but it’s clear to me she goes dumpster diving and that this is a major source of income for her (perhaps her only source). People park all over my lawn (not mine, but still), litter, jam up traffic, etc. Just when I think HOAs are stupid, my neighbor reminds me why sometimes rules are good.
I used to listen to punk rock, smoke, and drive fast. Now I listen to NPR, have code enforcement on speed dial, and worry about safety. I guess I should go easy on Boomers.
Sell out!
Welcome to Boomer Sensibility Ville. As you’re entering that zone, I find myself leaving it….moving right onto Senior Towne. ” Get OFF MY LAWWWNNN !!” ” Do you have a senior discount on the 2 for 1 dinner specials ?! ” ” WAIT ! I’ve got a coupon in here somewhere.” Yes, I think I’m getting there. In fact, I know I’m there. I don’t like punks at all anymore, and when my dad got like that about 25 years ago, by golly, you’d better get off his lawn if he told you to move on !
Silverback 1011 …I can relate ….I wish someone would of told
me what the different time zones were going to be like ,I wouldn’t of believed them anyway ,but I think I could of enjoyed each time zone for what it was more .
I used to listen to punk rock, smoke, and drive fast. Now I listen to NPR, have code enforcement on speed dial, and worry about safety. I guess I should go easy on Boomers.
—————-
Next thing you know, it’s “smooth jazz” and classical music. Then comes the minivan (you might say “no” right now, but just wait…).
It creeps up on you slowly.
NAH get used to Zydeco music…come on muggy I need your help….find me a good commercial where zydeco will be used as the title track…..one breakthrough hit and I can make bookoo $$$ as a dj…. come on pal buddy fellow music boffo.
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I used to listen to punk rock, smoke, and drive fast. Now I listen to NPR, have code enforcement on speed dial, and worry about safety. I guess I should go easy on Boomers.
I’ve got a lot going on right now. Please allow me yet another rumination/therapy/braintrust session here at HBB. This is another massive screwball that is causing me to lose sleep (I am particularly interested in ETs response):
The company I freelance for has closed its NYC office and expanding in LA. There is the possibility that I could rejoin this outfit full-time. I don’t know what the pay would be exactly, but it would be in the $65k/yr. range. It ends in one of two ways: it becomes an Emmy/Grammy award-winning music house and I win big-time, or goes completely bust…
I think I hate LA and (with two babies) can no longer stomach that level of risk, so I think I have my answer, but you know, it’s a rare opportunity that a lot of people wish they could have, so I don’t take it lightly. If I was 23, single, no kids, etc. Florida would be history, but that’s not the case.
Talented firmware engineer at the company I contract to lived in LA for about three years. Homemaker wife and two little kids and one on the way. They were in their mid to late 20s in L.A. He agonized about the unaffordability in LA. Upped and left for the Arizona office at same salary but much lower cost of living. They can now afford to be a one income family.
It is very hard to live on $65k with several dependents in Los Angeles. I think the engineer was earning $85k in Los Angeles and probably got raises along the way.
Hedge the bet.
Politely demand an employment contract that shelters you if the project goes bust, in exchange for some limit to how “big time” you would otherwise profit.
If they want you that badly, fine. If they don’t, fine.
Hedge the bet.
Yours is a good idea if they’d go for it.
Muggy:
I had a similar “golden” opportunity many years ago offered a job (Video master control)with ESPN in Bristol CT…had to move there work crazy hours make lots of $$$$ and travel to events….only problem I don’t like sports…..
“It ends in one of two ways: it becomes an Emmy/Grammy award-winning music house and I win big-time, or goes completely bust …”
The odds heavily favor “goes completely bust”.
Sorry, but the entertaiment scene churns ‘em and burns ‘em by the thousands.
Maybe staying in Florida and being a state employee with a teaching pension is a better bet. I can’t tell you what to do, but you have a measure of security that you would lose completely if you went to L.A. My mother’s old boyfriend has a son in the film industry in L.A., and he gets laid off and rehired for 6 weeks of work on a regular basis. The dream may be nice, but the reality could get ugly. I know from personal experience about buying “the dream business” in my first marriage, and it got really, really ugly.
Muggy,
First of all what does the wife say? A lot of times they have insight into things that we cannot see, not always, but usually.
Second, the LA area is “very expensive” but is also a great place to live if you like a nice climate, access to the ocean and don’t mind millions and millions of people.
Then for my story. Years ago I was engaged to a gal who’s dad was a banker in Crestview, FL. He had been presented with an opportunity to go in with a group of investors that were going to develop some coastal sand dune properties in the Panhandle of FLA. He passed. That land was what is now called Destin, FL.
He passed on the chance of a lifetime.
“I can’t tell you what to do”
Silverback I am part of a federally funded team that turns under-performing schools around. I can pretty much work in any corner of the country, but most likely it would be in areas with struggling schools (typically urban). So in that way, I could move to LA, try to work for LAUSD (not something I think I would want), and continue part-time in music.
“Sorry, but the entertainment scene churns ‘em and burns ‘em by the thousands.”
I completely understand this; however these dudes are a part of a very narrow band of guys (I know almost all of them) that have edged out the rare upper-middle class musician existence. I have no dreams or illusions. It shocks my “indie rock” friends when I say stuff like, “when I pick up my bass and noodle out a bass line, I ask myself if it’s something that will sell…”
It’s something that I need to make a decision on — there is an obvious housing component here too. I can’t afford the places where these guys already live (Santa Monica, Palos Verdes, Calabasas…)
Muggy,
I lived in LA from 86-94.
I’ve seen 48 states. I’ve lived in the Mid-West, Florida, New Jersey, LA for 8 years, Bay Area, Rio.
LA was the only place I detested returning to while I was living there and I loved my job there. I’ve been back once for pleasure. (a friend’s wedding)
There is something about LA that bummed me out.
However I never had the opportunity you might have.
Fly there next weekend and look at 3-4 places you could afford to rent. See if you could stand to live in those areas. Culver City if you could still afford it on 65K but I doubt it. Do you mind horrible traffic? The beaches are nice. Music is cool. Angelino’s have a reputation of shallowness. The weather is great. Lots of gangs. People expect nice cars. Good restaurants.
Gas, Food, Housing, Health insurance and home owner insurance are very expensive. It’s not a city for middle class kids in my opinion but neither is Rio or NY.
This is WAY bigger than whether to rent or own in Florida. Don’t listen to anyone but yourself and your wife. Good luck.
“I lived in LA from 86-94.”
OMG. Please tell me you saw Guns ‘N Roses at the Whiskey before “they got big.” I bet you had a lot of fun.
“People expect nice cars. Good restaurants.”
I was there for a long weekend on business (the people I would be working for) but we were so busy I didn’t really check out the area. I hit a few studios in Santa Monica, and that was about it. We had dinner at Pan Y Vino (Sp?) and Cameron Diaz was there and her crew got all crazy when we started taking pictures of ourselves (it was our big dinner party). I thought that was weird. The owner of the joint let his cute little pug maw on a huge bone at the entrance. I remember every place have valet parking, which is ridiculous.
I’m pretty sure I am not going to do it, but I keep losing sleep over it because it is a reasonable shot at the big time. Again, Combo, I hear what you’re saying, but these guys are on a pretty good run right now. I may revisit this over the next few months.
“Lots of gangs”
Yeah, I get enough of that in my area, and I am tired of it.
I had a fear of L.A. up to 1996 or so. So big a city, Rodney King riots, visions of clean-looking people lining the streets clapping at O.J. and his bud in a white Bronco heading to Mexico, earthquakes, car chases.
Visited every once in awhile during those days for a day trip. Lived in the high desert. Felt safe when I got back.
Living in Tucson and then Phoenix, then NJ, set the stage for me to handle any confrontations with Angelinos. Once someone in a $70,000 Hummer saw my AZ license plate on my $20,000 car and called me a redneck. But that was it.
You can find gated apartment communities all over, like in the South Bay, in Culver City, etc. But it does not really do you any good. There is always a dope who leaves a gate open to let his friends in to a party. The crooks know this very well. This stuff is much rarer at my gated apartment in Phoenix.
Muggy
My husband and I are both native Angelinos, and I know some people in the music/entertainment industry. If you need help or advice with anything, just let me know.
Also, I used to work for LAUSD (in one of the “challenging” neighborhoods). It’s not as bad as they make it out to be. For the most part, the kids are nice, and the parents are simply disadvantaged in many ways. It’s always nice when you can make a difference in their lives.
What will be difficult is trying to support a family in L.A. on $65K/year. What the OPs said above is true: L.A. is a VERY expensive place to live.
My husband and I are both native Angelinos
Then my respect for Angelinos is rising fast. But I always thought the native ones, if you can still find them, were most cool. My cousin is one of the few of them too.
Muggy,
I live in Thousand Oak, just north of L A County. Having grown up in Los Angeles County, I can contest to it now being a total third world area, in general. It’s crowded, food carts on the sidewalks in the San Fernando Valley (illegals-no health/business license), and the gang members make life unsafe. Thousand Oaks, once a pretty affluent area, is getting invaded by the illegals too. (sec 8 vouchers)
The LAUSD is always broke, and no wonder, they have a demographic of mostly illegals, newly arrived otm’s (other than Mexicans), and cultures clashing.
You would probably only be able to afford a substandard neighborhood. You have to make $150K+ just to live in an OK area. Section 8 housing is creeping into areas where the middle class use to live. The illegals and otm’s are usually the ones who get sec 8 entitlement.
I would not even entertain moving to So Ca. Other than weather, So Ca has a low quality of life. People with a decent income with kids are getting the heck out.
Oh, and regarding the entertainment world, that’s not how the majority of us live. Coming to L A to visit, and living here, are two different experiences.
I grew up down the street from CBS studios (Studio City area). I would not let my 14 yr old niece walk down the street alone, and that’s still considered a decent area. Just some feedback, Muggy.
Ca is living on it’s grand past.
CA renter
Although I admire your desire to help those less fortunate, they are called illegals for a reason, and always act nice when they can get something. Disadvantage my a**. They are getting free money, not paying taxes if they work, and are driving nice SUV’s. They always show more than one face.
Awaiting,
I’ve lived on and off in LA since 2003. I agree with you. It’s third world and section 8 all over the place. IMO, just a thin strip of houses along the beaches from Pacific Palisades to the Palos Verdes Peninsula are decent enough to live, plus pockets of wealthy enclaves, such as Beverly Hills perhaps.
Flying over the San Jacinto mountains to LAX you see a vast sea of grime. Mostly warehouses and blighted ‘hoods.
The only advantages of LA are climate, things to do, a variety of restaurants, great universities, and surprisingly still a lot of jobs.
But lots of high paying jobs are disappearing to lower salaries in flyover country or to the east coast. Business costs keep going up here in the “progressive” state.
That was very nice of you to say, Rio.
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2010-01-24 08:02:36
CA renter
Although I admire your desire to help those less fortunate, they are called illegals for a reason, and always act nice when they can get something. Disadvantage my a**. They are getting free money, not paying taxes if they work, and are driving nice SUV’s. They always show more than one face.
————————–
No, no, no, no, no, no, no (making sure the strength of my opinion is coming through. ). NOT in favor of illegal immigration at all!
I grew up in the Valley, too (Woodland Hills, DH is from Sherman Oaks), and have seen the devastation first-hand. No question about it, Southern California is becoming a third-world pit with patches of the very wealthy living in protected enclaves while the “poverty” disease spreads all around like a vicious cancer.
Still, it’s not so much the illegal families that I blame (and none of the families I’m familiar with had fancy SUVs, etc., as they usually lived in very crowded, filthy conditions in the “bad” parts of town). They come here because they are unable/unwilling to fix the problems back home. They are looking to survive and make a living, however modest it may be.
I blame our government for allowing the invasion (shouldn’t we be protecting OUR borders instead of Iraq’s and Afghanistan’s?), and I blame the people who employ/exploit the illegals.
If anything, we should send some resources to Mexico to help them with their issues, but I don’t think they want our help. They just want to shift their burdens onto us, without making any of the necessary adjustments required in their own country which would lift their people out of poverty and make life safer for their citizens.
The office:
Well, we are moving through the process of getting our unwanted foreclosure office up and going to put on the market. Couldn’t be at a worse time, in a worse state ( depression in Michigan ). That being said, my sister is acting as our job planner. She’s cranky and extremely, extremely good at it, being a project contractor supervisor architect type with 30 years or more experience in the field, with a specialty in professional space conversions and add-ons to old, National Historic Registry buildings. Nobody messes with her. She’s getting quite grumpy but has helped us make wonderful choices in paint, carpeting, etc., and is making us stick to our budget. We will be cutting her a check for her time and irritability factor, even though she says she doesn’t want it. So don’t cash it, already.
She got us the realtor ( ! ) who turned her house for a cash sale within 6 weeks of it being on the market, at almost full price. It was extremely saleable, being in perfect condition and architecht-improved, but still….he’s been in the business for 33 years, and owns and manages commercial properties himself, so he has a good handle on what the market will bring. He said we will most likely not have to take a land contract on it, which surprised us. He’s given us sound advice about what improvements to make and what to leave alone. To our additional surprise, he said that there were office condos selling around there at pretty good prices. Who knew ? Are things turning around ? I don’t think so, but maybe some professionals who want to own their own offices think so. I have no idea, but if somebody wants to hand over the money to us, well, we’ll take it.
We sold bullion, GLD, and our Disney Points ( The Timeshare Store) to pay for renovations. Gold has been falling pretty far and we cashed out. If it goes down as far as I think it will, we’ll just make more purchases at a much lower price later. We made good profits on both types of the shiny stuff-stock and actual. The Disney Points sold for enough that we’re happy. We had them and enjoyed them for 5 years, but the reality is that you can stay at the Sheraton in a beautiful room for $79 a night in Orlando ( we did it for the first night we were there after Christmas ), and everything else is down too, so it didn’t make any sense to keep our Saratoga Springs points. We found that the drawbacks with Saratoga are the sprawling size of the place ups the monthly maintenance fees, and it’s so far from things that it necessitates two bus transfers if we want to go to another WDW resort for dinner. Also, we had bought far too many points for us to happily use, necessitating a trip, so we got rid of them and scaled back.
We seem to be simplifying our possessions, and that’s fantastic. We couldn’t be happier.
Sounds like you have some good connections, SB. Best of luck to you in selling your building.
Thank you, President Obama, for supporting the American people’s interest in a competitive free market banking system not dominated by an oligopoly cartel which only serves Wall Street fat cats. I would like to exercise the last remaining vestiges of my First Amendment free speech rights to express how very happy I am that I voted for you.
Obama to break up banks
Robert Peston | 17:38 UK time, Thursday, 21 January 2010
Banking reforms do not come bigger than those proposed today by President Obama.
In an echo of the break up of banks that was imposed in the United States after the Great Depression, he wants a limit on their overall size and he also wants them banned from three activities that in recent years have been central to many of them.
He is pushing for them to be prohibited from involvment in hedge funds, from buying and selling whole companies in what’s known as private equity and from buying and selling securities for their own benefit on so-called proprietary trading desks.
In simple terms, he wants to prevent banks from taking speculative risks to generate colossal profits, while knowing that if their bets go wrong taxpayers will pick up the bill.
It means that some of the biggest banks in the US - from Bank of America, to JP Morgan and even Goldman Sachs - may have to be broken up.
…
President Obama did not say that the reform would only apply to those banks with a retail presence, such as JP Morgan and Citigroup (although perhaps it is what he meant to say). He said it would apply to “banks” as defined in US law - and Goldman became one of those in the autumn of 2008.
The big banks will hate his proposals - and will doubtless use their formidable lobbying power and financial resources to persuade Congress to water down the reform plans.
But Obama is up for the scrap. “If these folks want a fight, it is a fight I am ready to have”.
The US President believes that banks are back to their bad old ways too soon after their woes led to the biggest bank global bail out in history.
Goldman Sachs would deny this, but its near record revenues of $45bn for 2009 and 50% rise in staff pay to $16bn - or $500,000 per head - shows that the banking crisis, for it at least, is a dim and distant memory.
…
Congratulations comrade!
Yes! A free market banking system should not be free!
Our esteemed leaders are well on their way to crushing those capitalist pigs once and for all! How can we fail with as brave and forceful a fighter as BO at the helm?
Victory to the proletariat!
A toast! Za zdorovie!
Desperation and fear need not always lead to lunacy nor to histrionic hyperbole.
But quite apparently, in some cases they do.
Have you considered a career in PR work for the lending industry? You really do have a talent for strawman caricatures and sundry other propaganda techniques. I believe you could do very well working for Megabank, Inc.
It is you and your comrades Joey that have destroyed the free market. These companies should have been bankrupt, now you want to continue with too big to fial where the US gov has to continue to bail these gambling houses out of their losses. FU
With sufficient break up of systemically risky TBTF kleptocratic banks, I am guessing the international banking system might provide no more of a systemic threat to the global financial system than, say, dentistry.
Europe November 2, 2009, 9:20AM EST
Britain Set to Unveil Bank Breakup
To introduce more competition into the banking sector, the Labour government this week will propose selling pieces of Lloyds and RBS to new entrants
By Nick Clark
Chancellor Alistair Darling will this week unveil his proposed overhaul of the UK banking system which includes breaking up Lloyds Banking Group (LYG) and Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) and bringing “at least” three new banks to the high street.
Mr Darling is preparing to announce the Government’s plan for the future of UK banking – as first revealed in The Independent last week – to the House of Commons in the next few days.
The Government is not yet ready to announce as it is still in negotiations with the two banks over their participation in its Asset Protection Scheme (APS), designed to insure billions of pounds worth of bad loans.
The Chancellor said yesterday there would be a very different look to the high street banks in the next four years.
He said: “What I want to do now is begin the process of reform and reconstruction so we have got a safer, more competitive banking system with more high street banks than we have at the moment, with new entrants coming in”. RBS, which is 70 per cent owned by the Government, and Lloyds, 43 per cent state-owned, will be forced to dispose of a string of assets, which will be sold to new entrants to the market.
…
Fedex and UPS are merging into one giant package-moving express to better postion themselves in today’s economy. The resultant merger will be called FedUPS.
Allena, I hope you check the blog tonight. Here’s my littlelady (3 mos this weekend).
i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab205/muggyflo/taters.jpg
Muggy,
She is so cute. Love the pigtails. Thank you for sharing
The highest cost of the housing bubble…
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/wellington/fl-wellington-family-shooting-20100123,0,3998699.story
He was a former mortgage broker with several underwater FL propertys…poor wife & kids
Gee…
watching the quake and Haiti and all its victims….how bad does the worst person here have it?
My guess: Not bad. I post here for entertainment more than any other reason. I don’t mean to suggest that I doubt the importance of serious overhaul of the U.S. financial system for not only our present generation but also for all future generations of Americans.
Anyone else watching COPS? They just raided a foreclosure in CA.
Details? (Non teevee viewers are interested in how the foreclosure crisis is entering popular culture…)
Can someone explain what ‘central bank independence’ means? Does it mean independence from Wall Street, independence from Washington, or something else?
And what is a ‘populist tone’? Does that mean to pay less attention to what Megabank, Inc CEOs demand and more attention to what the Lilliputians want?
I guess if a bunch of economists with ties to big money corporate interests say that Bernanke’s reconfirmation is essential to the future survival of the human race, then it must be so.
Updated January 23, 2010
Bernanke Boasts Strong Supporters, but Can They Save His Job?
FOXNews dot com
The Federal Reserve Chairman certainly has his share of supporters, most notably President Obama, but will they be enough to win him another four-year term as Democrats look to strike a more populist tone?
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke suddenly found himself this week at risk of losing his job, after some Democrats in the Senate voiced opposition to his confirmation to a second term, but could he really be bound for the unemployment line?
Bernanke is credited for helping to reverse the recession but also criticized for not doing enough to prevent it. And with Democrats looking to strike a populist tone after a tough upset loss in Tuesday’s Massachusetts Senate race, the Fed chairman is an easy target.
Even so, Bernanke certainly has his share of supporters, most notably President Obama. Will they be enough to win him another four-year term?
Economists, for the most part, stand behind Bernanke. Those surveyed by FOX Business suggest if Bernanke is not confirmed, there is no one to replace him.
“There is no clear alternative, which is one more reason why it seems inconceivable for him not to be reappointed,” Mark Zandi, chief economist at economy.com, said.
Stuart Hoffman, chief economist, at PNC Bank was even harsher:
“If the Senate rejects Bernanke,” he said “the ‘no’ voters should resign in shame. There is no second choice.”
Mark Vitner, senior economist at Wells Fargo, said regardless of his replacement, a “no” vote for Bernanke means trouble.
“Businesses do not trust Congress right now, and a move to oust Bernanke would cast considerable doubt about the independence of the central bank. They need to confirm him,” Vitner said. “If the Senate rejects Bernanke we will have a whole set of new problems and probably a double dip.”
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“If the Senate rejects Bernanke we will have a whole set of new problems and probably a double dip.”
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Ah, the old, “give us what we demand or we take the system down” threats that begot the bailouts.
Let them fail. Let’s get on with the recession so that we can find a true bottom sooner than later.
Let the banksters fail and disappear forever so that we can go back to being a country that produced good and useful things, where asset prices (especially houses) and incomes were more aligned, and where the middle class had a chance to live without becoming a life-long debt slave. Bring it on.
Right on Ca renter ….The blackmailers are at it again . The Dow was already down 200 points and had been off for 2 or three days when
Obama made his 5 minute speech about reform of these entities. If you invested heavy in financial sector stocks your a speculator
anyway .
How is it possible to distinguish the impact of political pushback from that of the end of Wall Street’s year-end bonus season on the stock market? After all, the stock market crashed in the first several months of 2009, and I cannot recall any political pushback at the time…
Political push-back stalls stock market rally on Wall Street
By Renae Merle and Tomoeh Murakami Tse
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, January 24, 2010
NEW YORK — Washington spent months nursing the financial system back to health after the 2008 economic crisis, stabilizing then reviving battered markets and ultimately restoring trillions of dollars in investor losses. Wall Street’s political fortunes have not fared as well.
Now, an aggressive stance against the bankers, financiers and even government officials popularly blamed for causing the crisis is gaining political momentum, and there are signs it is eroding the very financial stability the government championed.
Moves to rein in the country’s biggest banks and talk of blocking the reappointment of Federal Reserve Board Chairman Ben S. Bernanke torpedoed confidence in the stock market last week, sending share prices into their steepest decline in nearly a year. Analysts fear conditions could worsen before they improve, as anger at Wall Street morphs into uncertainty about its business practices and prospects.
The anti-Wall Street mood darkened after President Obama’s Democratic Party suffered a stunning upset in the Massachusetts Senate race. That loss, attributed to concerns that the administration wasn’t focused sharply enough on the country’s continuing economic woes, came as many of the financial firms bailed out by taxpayers in the past two years reported massive profits and announced another round of big bonuses.
By Friday’s closing bell on the stock exchange floor, the Dow Jones industrial average had plunged 4 percent over four days. The Chicago Board Options Exchange’s Volatility Index, which measures the degree to which investors expect stocks to swing and is often called the “fear gauge,” had shot up 50 percent for the week. And in a move reminiscent of the depths of the financial crisis, investors piled into government bonds, seeking cover from the turbulence.
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There were some signs Saturday of Washington working to calm Wall Street. Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher J. Dodd (D-Conn.) and Republican member Judd Gregg (N.H.) issued a joint statement predicting that Bernanke would be confirmed.
“In the last few days there have been a flurry of media reports on Chairman Bernanke’s confirmation prospects, highlighting a very vocal opposition,” the statement said. “Chairman Bernanke has done an excellent job responding to one of the most significant financial crises our country has ever encountered.”
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Well when you consider that the majority of the trades on Wall Street are now made by these titans, I’d say that any message sent by markets movement is a message sent directly by Wall Street and says nothing about what mainstreet feels.
Bingo!