January 31, 2010

Bits Bucket For January 31, 2010

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Comment by CarrieAnn
2010-01-31 04:14:01

If bankers get their way, Floridians facing foreclosure could be kicked out of their homes in as little as three months.

The Florida Bankers Association, the 400-member-strong lenders’ lobby, has presented state legislators with a bill to upend decades of Florida law and establish “non-judicial” foreclosures in Florida by July 1.

What’s a non-judicial foreclosure? Banks would accelerate foreclosures against defaulting homeowners by bypassing the courts. Judges would no longer rule on foreclosure cases.

Some states — 37 in fact — already grant that fast-track foreclosure authority, including California, Georgia, Alabama and Texas. But Florida, with its plethora of vacation and retiree homes, has always been big on homeowner rights.

• The Florida Supreme Court’s newly endorsed mandatory mediation for lenders and homeowners would effectively go bye-bye. The bill provides only for informal meetings between creditors and debtors.

• Even after homeowners are evicted, banks can still pursue them for unpaid mortgage debt. But banks will waive that right if homeowners avoid trashing or stripping the house before the new owner takes over.

The bankers association has titled the bill The Florida Consumer Protection and Homeowner Credit Rehabilitation Act. Association president Alex Sanchez views the bill as a way to break a foreclosure crisis partly caused by mortgage fraud.

He offered a list of innocents the bankers aim to help: neighbors annoyed by abandoned houses next door; condo associations pursuing dues from properties in legal limbo; cities grappling with urban blight; and judges overloaded with thousands of foreclosure cases.

“We don’t want the property. We’re not into the property management business,” Sanchez said of bankers. “We want to get a property out of the courts and sold to a productive Florida family.”

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/florida-bankers-move-to-dramatically-speed-up-the-foreclosure-process/1069024

**********
I thought our Florida brethren might enjoy keeping an eye on this one.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 07:17:16

“If bankers get their way, Floridians facing foreclosure could be kicked out of their homes in as little as three months.”

Dumb question of the day:

When is America going to foreclose on the Wall Street banks that should have gone out of business in Fall 2008, were it not for the bailout perpetrated by their man in the Treasury Secretary post?

Comment by wmbz
2010-01-31 07:44:22

“When is America going to foreclose on the Wall Street banks that should have gone out of business in Fall 2008, were it not for the bailout perpetrated by their man in the Treasury Secretary post”?

The answer as you know is… NEVER! It would break the chain, and TPTB will not be party to that.

Comment by gal
2010-01-31 09:49:54

I have read the following article in Yahoo “finances” area, but somehow it is impossible to open, seems like some people in Wall street blocking it…

“Watchdog: Bailouts created more risk in system- AP

The government’s response to the financial meltdown has made it more likely the United States will face a deeper crisis in the future, an independent watchdog at the Treasury Department warned.”
I

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 10:06:10

Scroll down — posted here:

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 07:04:24

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 11:07:14

If some “people on Wall Street” are truly trying to suppress this story, it isn’t working very well. The Barofsky report’s conclusion that bailouts have served to increase systemic risk is the top headline on the National Public Radio hourly news this morning! :-)

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-31 11:27:11

Note article on Japan today- posted at end .

TBTF and arrogance…. Note: Face (U.S.) meet Mirror.

 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-01-31 09:15:23

Dumber question of the day: When are the American sheeple going to stop voting for Republicrat politicians who aid and abet Wall Street’s looting of Main Street? How did YOUR so-called representative or Senator vote on the bailouts, and did YOU express your displeasure and intent to vote for a more principled alternative the next time around? People bitch about the bailouts, while conveniently ignoring the fact that they voted for the SOBs who gave AIG and the Banksters a blank check, and will probably vote for them in the next election as well. This makes no sense to me.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 10:08:27

Is there a list of how Congress voted on the bailouts somewhere around the web that we could keep handy here for the next several years worth of election seasons? I am thinking that if information on the bailout supporters is constantly brought to light, perhaps the American electorate can replace the Wall Street bankster support network in Congress with legislators who work for the interests of Main Street America.

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Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2010-01-31 10:49:38

It makes perfect sense to me.
Let’s look at what has happened to our government over the past 50 years. Starting even earlier, with Social Security, the government went from financing “public” programs and started the process of “entitlements.”
This blog is full of do-gooders who think the government should do MORE to help the “unfortunate, down-trodden, disenfranchised” and other code words for people who don’t work and who DON’T PAY TAXES.
We are not at the point where more than half of the population here pays no federal income tax. However, even illegal aliens are getting food stamps, welfare, and sending their children to public schools where the get free breakfast and lunch.
The system will not change because we have reached a point where the “majority” of voters are getting benefits from the “system”, while the rest of us pay.
If you look at the current fiscal state of all levels of government, they are bankrupt. Period. Yet, the government employees want more pay and benefits when they already get more than comparable private business workers.
Until the system collapses under the burdens of what i call the tyranny of the minority, expect people to want to keep the game going like it is. How could such disgusting people as Barney Frank, Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Charles Rangel (to name just a few) continually get RE-elected to serve in government? Simple.
Every government “expense” is someone else’s income.
WAY TOO many “entitlement” programs, and the numbers keep growing. We are bankrupt. The ponzi scheme is over, but the FED has kept the money printing rolling along to cover up the eventual collapse. We “we” vote for more of the same? YES.

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-01-31 11:55:04

Well said, Diogenes.

My previous suggestion that only those who pay more into the system in taxes than they take out in benefits should be allowed to vote prompted some howls of indignation in here. Our current leadership is a sad reflection of the inevitable result of allowing cretins to vote. Mobocracy and democracy are two very different things. Groups like the AARP and ACORN have no right to demand ever-greater entitlements for their voting blocs that working taxpayers will have to pay for.

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-31 12:15:14

you two are frekin scary.

 
Comment by eudemon
2010-01-31 12:22:59

You’ll never hear me howl on that suggestion, Sammy.

Good post, Dio. Of course, you are correct.

 
Comment by reuven
2010-01-31 13:27:27

This blog is full of do-gooders who think the government should do MORE to help the “unfortunate, down-trodden, disenfranchised” and other code words for people who don’t work and who DON’T PAY TAXES.

The majority of Americans don’t pay taxes. We’ve all seen the figures that the bottom 50% of taxpayers pay less than 3% of Federal taxes. Yet they’ll complain about taxes, even though they’re “Lucky Duckies”

The way I see it: Take the annual US budget and divide by the US population. If you’re not paying that amount in taxes that year for your family, you’re a freeloader and have no right to complain that you are paying too much taxes. You also have no right to ask the government for entitlements, or to go to the polls to raise other people’s taxes (as happened in Oregon last week).

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 14:25:04

“This blog is full of do-gooders who think the government should do MORE to help the “unfortunate, down-trodden, disenfranchised” and other code words for people who don’t work and who DON’T PAY TAXES.”

You mean like the almost 50% of both foreign and domestic corporations who don’t pay income taxes in almost any given year? (credit: Reuters)

Or the tax credits that motivated the big corporations to offshore jobs?

You might want to be careful where you point that thing. It’s loaded.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 14:28:43

“The system will not change because we have reached a point where the “majority” of voters are getting benefits from the “system”, while the rest of us pay.”

Turn off the neocon talk radio. It’s rotting your brain.

 
Comment by JDinCT
2010-01-31 14:29:44

I’ll just point out that hedgies pay 15% on garganyuan incomes. A dishwasher may pay little in Federal Income Taxes but loses a huge fraction of his paycheck to all the FICA withholdings.

Let’s remove the top limits for social security taxes…that might shore up the system and return alittle equity to the system.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 14:38:52

My posts are getting eaten again.

 
Comment by potential buyer
2010-01-31 16:05:05

Are you sure that illegals can collect welfare? I think they can for their US born children, but not for themselves.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 19:01:17

It depends on the state. The usual work arounds are fake IDs.

 
Comment by measton
2010-01-31 19:23:21

You are forgetting the stealth tax

INFLATION

Every wage earner pays this tax, while Hedge Funds leverage and make money because of it.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 20:35:28

And that inflation is far higher than the official numbers.

 
Comment by rms
2010-01-31 22:12:10

“The system will not change because we have reached a point where the “majority” of voters are getting benefits from the “system”, while the rest of us pay.”

In our “modern” economy roughly 1/3 of the population is regularly employed and paying taxes. For example, in California there are roughly 14-million taxpayers supporting a state of roughly 40-million people +/- a few million. You can be sure that the 2/3 “gifted” are more worried about their survival than the 1/3 “exhausted” folks.

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2010-02-01 10:13:13

A couple of good points:

- Those who aren’t working have lots more time to find ways to scam the system. This applies to both low-rent scumballs and high-flying banksters. They may vote differently, but they are both doing the same thing: exploiting the system vs. doing a day’s work for a day’s pay… and they’ve contributed heavily to making it much harder to find a job that pay’s, but that’s another topic.

- Not only is inflation paid by everyone, but the Powers That Be have managed to convince people that it is a GOOD THING?! Look - the stock market went up! Sure, the dollar went down by the same amount, but the market is UP!! Housing only goes UP! Nevermind how it compares to inflation - it went UP!! And so on.

 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2010-02-01 10:07:38

I voted against all of the local parasites and send them letters opposing the Bailout.

All I got in return were form letters thanking me for my “concern” and ensuring me that endless bailouts will make America strong. And all the idiots won relection because in Maryland, a chimp could run as a Democrat and win in a landslide. So, in the end, what I did really doesn’t matter, sadly.

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Comment by reuven
2010-01-31 10:10:52

“banks get their way”

“kicked out of their homes”

Isn’t it the banks home? Aren’t the people who are sitting in a home they’re not paying for trespassers?

Comment by JDinCT
2010-01-31 10:17:31

probably, but there is (or was) a judicial process for determining that.

Criminal law would go a lot faster if we just locked up the people who look guilty.

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Comment by DD
2010-01-31 11:29:53

people who look guilty.

Well, now that could be problematic. Not everyone was born with innocent ‘looks’!

 
Comment by JDinCT
2010-01-31 14:36:50

I hope you understand DD that my remark was meant to be sarcastic in the extreme, Is there a blogging shorthand that can be used to denote sarcasm?

i.e. Yeah, Diogenes we ought to tattoo those freeloaders with big a “F” on their forehead. Any freeloader found without his tattoo could be sentenced to be an indentured servant (or slave if one prefers) to a hardworking taxpayer. (Scsm)

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 10:54:22

Possession is ninety percent of the law.

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Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2010-01-31 11:03:50

No. It is not the bank’s home in Florida. Florida is a title theory state. Under law here, the TITLE transfers to the purchaser under a DEED recorded at the courthouse.
The MORTGAGE is a lien on the title. It gives the holder of the mortgage the right to ask the courts to foreclose on the property for non-payment of the lien. Until the courts agree to the foreclosure, the property TITLE and ownership is still vested in the purchaser recorded on the DEED.
In other states, Lien theory states, the bank holds the TITLE and surrenders it upon payment of the lien. If the payments aren’t made, the bank can take the property, as they are essentially holding title subject to payment of the lien.
Florida also allows deficiency judgments and i think they should be enforced. Meaning if the bank sells the property for less than what is owed, then the lien holder can lay claim to the owners remaining assets.

I remember people lining up to “out-bid” me on properties a few years back. They said the properties were “undervalued”.
Well…………they got the house. I didn’t. I think they should be made to pay what they agreed to. I would have paid the “short-sale” price on many of the new foreclosures. I wouldn’t pay the bid-war price. These people upset market pricing and should pay for it. Let it be a lesson in financial prudency.

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Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2010-01-31 11:23:02

OH, one thing i forgot to add.
Even if the courts agree to the foreclosure, they are not agreeing to transfer of the property to the lien-holder. The property must be sold to the highest bidder to satisfy the judgement. If the price is higher than the debt (not usually), then the owner gets to keep the balance of the proceeds. Typically, the lien-holder will be a bank and will bid the price of the lien to recover the property, and satisfy the debt.
Funny that, lately, they aren’t really anxious to get the property for what’s owed on it. Should have gotten a 20% down payment.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2010-01-31 12:06:56

“I remember people lining up to “out-bid” me on properties a few years back. They said the properties were “undervalued”.
Well…………they got the house. I didn’t. I think they should be made to pay what they agreed to. I would have paid the “short-sale” price on many of the new foreclosures. I wouldn’t pay the bid-war price. These people upset market pricing and should pay for it. Let it be a lesson in financial prudency.”

My reason exactly for not being a fan of mortgage work outs. They wanted to take on more risk that I felt comfortable with? Well, they got it now they should live with the result.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-02-01 03:48:47

Totally understand where you’re coming from diogenes and CarrieAnn. We could have easily bought as well, but didn’t want to overpay and/or stretch our finances too thinly. Not sure why the irresponsible must always be bailed out at the expense of the more prudent. It basically means that the most foolish and overleveraged buyers will always set the price because they will have learned that they will be bailed out as long as every fool is acting in concert. Great lessons we’re learning with these bailouts. :*(

 
 
 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2010-01-31 07:51:09

Ummm why wasn’t this done 2 years ago???

——————-
But banks will waive that right if homeowners avoid trashing or stripping the house before the new owner takes over.

Comment by DennisN
2010-01-31 09:54:56

It sounds like Florida is joining the ranks of the “non-recourse” states. A typical “non-recourse” state, like California, has a two-tier foreclosure scheme. You can take the time and expense and go through a judicial foreclosure - which protects your right to sue for the deficiency. Or you can elect the quick-and-dirty non-judicial foreclosure, which by electing you waive your rights to sue for the deficiency.

Since most defaulters are broke anyway, generally mortgage holders elect the non-judicial foreclosure.

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2010-01-31 08:17:12

Thanks, Carrie– interesting article. A productive Florida family… wow, is someone finally addressing my family? What’s so depressing is the reaction to the comments: look at all of the “thumbs up” replies to the “evil banker” posts.

Comment by JDinCT
2010-01-31 10:15:18

Didn’t Ben recently have the story about the foreclosed homeowner who was specifically asked by the bank to continue living in the property to avoid vandalism?

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2010-01-31 10:45:58

You’re certainly welcome. : )

I noticed the way the comments slanted too Muggy. I also noticed there were way too many comments suggesting if one loses their job Uncle Sam should be the safety net. Very few brought up the fact that there should have been a personal safety net in the form of savings/investments.

When did we switch over on that? When I was working in the 80s and 90s my employers often had personal investment advisers come in. We met on company time and part of the planning did involve a discussion about liquid investments should emergencies arise. I don’t want people to starve but I kind of got the feeling these people never felt they were responsible for themselves in the first place.

Comment by DD
2010-01-31 11:34:17

my employers often had personal investment advisers come in.

My, my, that would have been a refreshing event. Doesn’t cost the corp anything and yet, their employees/family of loyal workers would learn how to handle their $. We had some guy/gal who worked for C.U. and that was it. No training to advise and inform, there. Good for you Carrie, I saw it on tv once too

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Comment by reuven
2010-01-31 13:24:42

I noticed the way the comments slanted too Muggy. I also noticed there were way too many comments suggesting if one loses their job Uncle Sam should be the safety net. Very few brought up the fact that there should have been a personal safety net in the form of savings/investments.

I can remember the “conventional wisdom” when I was growing up…that you not only should have your 20% down when you buy a house, but you should either have enough saved up for at least 6 months of mortgage payments OR if its a two-wage earner household, either one of you can carry the mortgage.

I’m amazed how greedy and entitled the average middle class American feels–and many of these are the same people who complain about high taxes, etc.

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Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 14:37:46

Greedy and entitled? No more so than the upper class, who can no longer spell noblesse oblige, let alone teach the less fortunate its lesson by example.

Thank god the middle class at least paid back their bailout.

Oh wait, they didn’t get one did they?

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 14:33:55

CarrieAnn, while I agree that a personal safety net of savings is always a priority, you (and many other apparently sheltered folks around here) assume that most people make/made enough money TOO save.

They don’t, and didn’t.

And if anyone here is naive enough to think that people with nothing will just quietly go away, you must have slept through history class.

Marie Antoinette must have thought the same thing.

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Comment by In Montana
2010-01-31 19:17:35

I know Hmoung familes who came here with NOTHING. They worked menial jobs, stayed together and pooled their money. And bought land. Some of the younger generation went to the state U and majored in accounting or finance. They started restaurants and went into other businesses.

It can be done.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 20:40:20

Of course “it can be done”. That doesn’t mean it can be done by everybody.

What’s the old saying? “If everybody could do it, everybody would be doing it.”

But you abandon the less fortunate at your peril. They don’t deserve ice cream and cake, but neither do they deserve violence, disease and despair or they will turn on you. Many empires have found this out the hard way.

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2010-02-01 10:21:28

There’s also the problem with both inflation (in needs) and unemployment higher than reported and still growing, folks CAN’T save anymore. But that’s the goal, of course - to make more debt-serfs - and that’s why the runaway inflation and unemployment is being encouraged.

That being said, there’s a difference in being honestly poor and not being able to save and simply living far beyond one’s means by trying to buy overpriced houses to flip. The former should get assistance, while the gamblers should get squat.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Kim
2010-01-31 10:05:19

At first glance, this seems to me to be a good idea. It appears fair to both parties, and I like the clause for not stripping the houses.

It probably won’t noticably affect the pace of foreclosures, however. Its not the courts (in most cases) that are holding up the process. Banks themselves are backed up, and the fact they’re reluctant to take over houses faster when it would mean recognizing the losses on their books sooner.

Comment by JDinCT
2010-01-31 10:18:42

kim +1

 
Comment by SDGreg
2010-01-31 12:09:18

“It probably won’t noticably affect the pace of foreclosures, however. Its not the courts (in most cases) that are holding up the process. Banks themselves are backed up, and the fact they’re reluctant to take over houses faster when it would mean recognizing the losses on their books sooner.”

At least based on the article, there didn’t seem to be anything that would force the lenders to dispose of the properties in a reasonable time period once the foreclosure occurred nor book the losses.

Why the rush to foreclose if they’re just going to sit on the properties for years? Would they be pushing this bill as hard if they had to dispose of the properties within 3 or 6 months of the foreclosure and book any losses at that time?

 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2010-01-31 11:00:42

I’m sure there are a lot of people here in Florida who will gladly give up their homes if the debt is discharged, particularly homedebtors with option ARMs. Why wouldn’t they? Two years late they’ll be able to buy a similar home for less than they owe today.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-02-01 04:09:53

Just read the comments in CarrieAnn’s link.

Wow, what a delusional bunch of fools. Everybody thinks they “deserve” a principal reduction so they can stay in “their” homes.

No offense to these people, but if they didn’t have enough savings to tide them over during an extended period of unemployment, then they paid too much for housing.

Would they be so emotional about renters staying in “their” homes if they didn’t pay the rent?

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2010-02-01 10:24:53

The sad part is that these same clowns would probably be very angry at the “deadbeat” renters for skipping a month of rent while they happily quit paying their mortgage months ago. And the government encourages this: everyone is equal, but some are more equal then others.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-31 04:19:07

We’ve just been kicking the can…

Watchdog: Bailouts created more risk in system
Bailout watchdog: Response to financial crisis response leaves US with even more risk. ~ January 31, 2010

WASHINGTON (AP) — The government’s response to the financial meltdown has made it more likely the United States will face a deeper crisis in the future, an independent watchdog at the Treasury Department warned.

The problems that led to the last crisis have not yet been addressed, and in some cases have grown worse, says Neil Barofsky, the special inspector general for the trouble asset relief program, or TARP. The quarterly report to Congress was released Sunday.

“Even if TARP saved our financial system from driving off a cliff back in 2008, absent meaningful reform, we are still driving on the same winding mountain road, but this time in a faster car,” Barofsky wrote.

 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-31 04:22:43

China threatens US arms companies.
Beijing ~ Shanghai ~ January 31 2010

China threatened to impose sanctions on US arms firms and cut cooperation with Washington unless it cancels a $6.4bn arms sale to Taiwan, in an unprecedented move signalling Beijing’s growing global power.

Although Beijing ritually protests US weapons sales to the island, it has not previously targeted the companies involved in the trade. Although the US restricts arms sales to China, a number of the companies that would supply systems involved in the new Taiwan package, which include Boeing, United Technologies, Lockheed Martin and Raytheon, could face pressure in other business areas.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 06:25:20

The Symbiosis is showing signs of breakdown.

Comment by combotechie
2010-01-31 06:55:49

More to come.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2010-01-31 07:38:32

We’ll just have to buy our WalMart crap from Mexico instead.

Comment by Muggy
2010-01-31 08:23:57

“We’ll just have to buy our WalMart crap from Mexico instead.”

Exactly, or maybe even make some of that plastic chit here, with people that don’t have jobs. It’ll all work out.

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Comment by BlueStar
2010-01-31 06:33:47

What I’m waiting to see is the Chinese leaders go on live TV and burn a pile of Treasury notes. They won’t be that dramatic but if they are pissed that will surly send a strong message. Just on the face of it the Taiwan issue is a lost cause because of the shared culture between the two people.

Comment by JDinCT
2010-01-31 10:02:00

Announcing that they won’t buy treasuries will devalue the treasuries they already own. i.e. cutting off nose to spite face

i read that britain and Japan are the biggest holders of US debt (not sure if that is accurate)

you know the adage
you owe the bank $100 k the bank owns you, you owe the bank $100 million , you own the bank.

they are so deep into the US debt and reliant on the US consumer, I am curious to see how much noise they make abiout the taiwan deal.

as a matter of fact, their acquiescence might be an indicator of how deep the symbiosis runs.

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-31 11:36:42

Why did the US arms mega corps “allow” that info to be publicized in the first place? Just to piss off China? Must be something else in play that we aren’t thinking about.

 
 
Comment by SV guy
2010-01-31 08:38:10

“China threatened to impose sanctions…….”

It’s not usually a good thing to piss off your landlord.

Gee, I wonder how they will feel when they finally realize, as if they haven’t already, their US debt is worthless?

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-01-31 09:20:23

If you haven’t seen the SNL skit on Obama’s trip to China, it’s hilarious and dead on.

Comment by SV guy
2010-01-31 09:51:32

Sammy,

Just watched it. Very funny!

“Do I look like Mrs. Obama?”

“All of your programs to save money involve spending money?”

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-01-31 10:16:54

SV guy,

Given the lovefest between Obama and the media, I was astonished to see SNL go after The One with such a barbed skit. SNL hasn’t been funny since their early years, but they really nailed it with this one. Apparently it’s quite popular in China, too.

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-31 11:40:04

sammy, only one channel has balanced side to this POTUS.

snl was(in olden days) funny, but just cause they “nailed it with this one” doesn’t mean it was funny, it just pointed out stuff.

 
Comment by SV guy
2010-01-31 12:32:07

Sammy,

That was my thought exactly. Maybe the halo is fading.

DD,

I agree that SNL used to be funnier. I don’t watch it anymore for this reason but that skit was funny. Even if it was restating what most already knew.

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-31 12:35:11

that skit waswas Not funny

It Just pointed out what happened.

Different altogether.

 
Comment by mariner22
2010-01-31 15:31:32

I thought the skit was sad, dishonorable, disgusting, surprising (since NBC aired it), and one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-02-01 04:22:13

Just looked up the SNL skit. That was hilarious! :)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by DennisN
2010-01-31 04:24:44

Normally the Statesman is realistic about housing issues….

But they still ran an article about remodeling that featured replacing laminate countertops with granite and appliances with s/s.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/life/story/1060069.html

The remodeling industry must really be in a tailspin. I even downloaded a coupon good for free admission to a trade show. Not much of interest there: I walked through in 10 minutes.

Comment by Silverback1011
2010-01-31 07:45:44

The over the top re-do on the house that should have been a rental.

There was a house around the corner from us that went into foreclosure. It was for sale for around $67,000 ( short sale ), which was about the right price for it per Zillow. Prices in our sub have sunk to extremely depressing lows. I met the guys who bought it, and asked if I could look inside. It was decent inside, and had a nice kitchen. The only trouble was that the colors chosen for the carpet and kitchen counter were in various shades of grays, apropos the 90’s, but the condition was overall good. I said, ” Wow, are you guys going to make this into a rental ? All you’d have to do is paint and a little carpet cleaning, and you’d be set to go, and it would rent for $ 1100 - $ 1200 easy.” He said that they flipped houses and that they were going to gut out the kitchen and the 2 1/2 baths, and put in all new….I looked at him amazedly and went away. He thought I was nuts, too. That was almost 2 years ago. They took out perfectly nice cabinets and flawless formica, put in granite and some dark cabinets, all probably by the same maker ( Merillats ), installed S.S. appliances all over the place, and put it on the market for $ 129,900 or so. It’s marked down to $ 114,900, and it’s still sitting there, empty. For white appliances and formica counters and some carpet cleaning and about $ 5K at most for the painting, they could have been renting it out these last 24 months. Weird.

Comment by Muggy
2010-01-31 08:28:14

Silverback, their are tow homes in my area that went through similar weirdness. There was a foreclosure approaching $200k, and we thought, “cool, maybe we’ll make on offer down t he road…” Boom, “snapped up” by a flipper who tricks the freaking thing out with plastic everything, and it’s back on the market at $369k. Gee, thanks for “helping out” the neighborhood by “fixing up” this house for the last two years.

We drove by another house that we liked yesterday, and it had burned to the ground. Lovely.

Real estate is now basically a game of ransom played by the most reckless of parties.

Comment by Michael Fink
2010-01-31 09:59:19

Why do people think that this “adds value”. I don’t understand the thought here, buy something for 200K, pay someone 50K (labor and materials) to put lipstick on it, and then turn around and sell it for 360K.

Why on earth would I pay you anything approaching 100% of the cost of renovations? If I do the reno myself, I get to choose everything, and decide what things are, and are not, important to me. If you do the reno, I just pay for your choices.. Why would I pay you (a HUGE amount of money) to make these choices for me?

It’s like buying used car, putting a set of rims on it, and then trying to sell it for more than the original price + rims. Are you kidding? There’s no value added here; flipping is a totally none productive effort.

The only possible exception is if you buy a house and do the reno yourself (because you really know how to do it); NOT buy hiring contractors. And, even then, it’s not a great proposition, if you’re in the business of renovating houses, why not wait for someone else to buy the house and then market your services to them?

It’s a really, really stupid business model, and one that hopefully will totally evaporate a few years from now.

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Comment by DennisN
2010-01-31 10:07:36

I once bought a house for $109K, put in about $50K worth of improvements, and sold the house for almost $700K.

Of course, I lived in the house for 25 years. Should that matter? :lol:

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2010-01-31 10:11:18

There’s no value added here; flipping is a totally none productive effort.

It’s a cargo cult. Up until recently that was how you made money rain from the sky…maybe if we’re extra sincere it will work again.

 
Comment by JDinCT
2010-01-31 10:35:35

“cargo cult”
great expression — idea!

 
Comment by eastcoaster
2010-01-31 11:26:25

$109K to $700K in 25 years. Unreal. Good for you, but still ridiculous.

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-31 11:52:31

why not wait for someone else to buy the house and then market your services to them?

cause in this world, people do not have vision and need to see it all spic span ready to go, hence the Staging biz as well.
People have been trained to not see the forest for the trees or just want things easy.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-02-01 04:29:51

why not wait for someone else to buy the house and then market your services to them?
——————–

Because the flippers don’t make enough money that way. They’d only get the money for materials + labor if the marketed their services to new buyers; whereas when they flip them, they get materials + labor + “fantasyland flipper mark-up” (which is usually more than the actual labor+materials).

I’ll never understand why people buy from flippers either.

 
 
Comment by CA renter
2010-02-01 04:26:12

There was a foreclosure approaching $200k, and we thought, “cool, maybe we’ll make on offer down t he road…” Boom, “snapped up” by a flipper who tricks the freaking thing out with plastic everything, and it’s back on the market at $369k. Gee, thanks for “helping out” the neighborhood by “fixing up” this house for the last two years.

We drove by another house that we liked yesterday, and it had burned to the ground. Lovely.

Real estate is now basically a game of ransom played by the most reckless of parties.
———————–

Muggy,

This post is spot-on. Exactly what we’re seeing (and feeling) over here on the left coast. Any time something begins to look remotely tempting, a flipper “snaps it up” and uglifies it with their Pergraniteel. If we ever buy a house and it happens to have granite in it, we’re going to tear it out just for the principle of it.

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Comment by DD
2010-01-31 11:49:56

could have been renting it out these last 24 months. Weird.

Condo across st. Owner (uber wealthy owns at least 1 for him, 1 for son) raised rent on perfect 7 yr tenants. They moved out. 2 yrs hence, empty.6 month gutted, complete redo..still sitting there. Other props in gated dev are not moving @ $400k mark.
1 prop-2 yrs on mkt fsbo, several others sitting there 6 month.
Other condo 3/2 empty 4 yrs. owners finally rented it.
So there are many houses that owners don’t need to move them.
Weird, huh. I thought the plan was to make money if you got into the housing bidness?
I’m with you, paint, clean carpet, rent it. BOOM.

 
Comment by pmseatac
2010-01-31 17:31:20

So a house that has formica and white appliances is only fit to be a rental ? If a non-rental house doesn’t have a granisteel makeover, will it collapse, kinda like having termites or a dry-rot problem ?

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2010-02-01 10:29:09

Wow… those flippers were late to the party, too!

What is with the nuts thinking that every upgrade should yield 2x to 10x times the cost that was put into it? Spend a few thousand on upgrades, increase the price by tens of thousands of dollars… I mean, it’s not as if the new buyer couldn’t go out and spend the same amount of money and get the same upgrades without the flipper markup? Strange…

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-31 04:40:14

Roubini Calls U.S. Growth ‘Dismal and Poor,’ Predicts Slowing.

(Bloomberg) — New York University Professor Nouriel Roubini, who anticipated the financial crisis, called the fourth quarter surge in U.S. economic growth “very dismal and poor” because it relied on temporary factors.

Roubini said more than half of the 5.7 percent expansion reported yesterday by the government was related to a replenishing of inventories and that consumption depended on monetary and fiscal stimulus. As these forces ebb, growth will slow to just 1.5 percent in the second half of 2010, he said.

“The headline number will look large and big, but actually when you dissect it, it’s very dismal and poor,” Roubini told Bloomberg Television in an interview at the World Economic Forum’s annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland. “I think we are in trouble.”

Roubini said while the world’s largest economy won’t relapse into recession, unemployment will rise from the current 10 percent, posing social and political challenges.

“It’s going to feel like a recession even if technically we’re not going to be in a recession,” he said.

Comment by In Colorado
2010-01-31 07:40:16

Whenever I talk with people about what this year will be like most agree that it will be more of what we experienced in 2009.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2010-01-31 12:22:12

The sites I’ve been hitting are escalating the gloom and doom talk again. Consensus seems to be 2nd 1/2 of 2010 will show another correction. It’s been reminding me of the beginning of the escalation of chatter before Sept 08.

Many newsletters/articles have zeroed in on the fact that the gov bond situation cannot go on forever. And won’t. I think I recall Rick Santelli on that band wagon this week himself.

Comment by CA renter
2010-02-01 04:32:02

Yep. Santelli’s been saying that for a long, long time (like many of us). It’s only a matter of time, IMHO, but some of us have been waiting for years! :(

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Comment by combotechie
2010-01-31 08:05:02

“‘Its going to feel like a recession even if technically we’re not goint to be in a recession’, he said.”

David Stockman, when Reagan was president, caught h*ll for using the word “recession”, so he started using the word “banana” instead, as in “It looks as if the economy may slide into a banana”.

 
 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2010-01-31 04:44:51

Peter is a Econ Professor at UCI (Irvine) and wrote “The Coming China Wars” Believe it or not, Bob Brinker had him on yesterday, and those two clashed on Bernanke. Peter says he should have gone. Bob evidently likes his policies. Peter said this is a structually broken economy.It was by happenstance, I heard this interview. I am no fan of Brinker.
Note the link is from 2006.
http://www.totalpicture.com/shows/big-picture/peter-navarro.html

 
Comment by Silverback1011
2010-01-31 04:51:07

Haiti donations: I have been doing fundraising for the Haitian earthquake victims, and have questioned whether donating to a specific orphan through an organization is the best way to go. Based on a few hours of research yesterday, I’ve concluded that at the moment the needs of the general population are greater, and I wasn’t able to find a top-rated ( by Charity Navigator ) orphan-sponsoring charity. I chose to donate to Doctors Without Borders, the Red Cross with the funds specified for Haitian relief, and one organization which had found an already-established orphanage which had collapsed, and had dozens of kids wandering around with no food or water for 3 days, and no adults in sight, so they basically took over caring for these kids. It’s amazing to find how many stories are out there to entice what few dollars people can afford to give. One of the criteria in giving wisely is to choose organizations which are already either very experienced in disaster relief efforts, or an outfit that has already rolled out their medical clinic in Port-au-Prince. I have to laud the organizations working together. A big Canadian Muslim charitable organization is raising $1.5mm for Haitian relief, and is working the the Latter-Day Saints on the ground with water and food efforts, for example.

Tradesmen: Some with attitude problems…. Okay, so I’m ignorant. I don’t enjoy remodelling. I’ve never built a huge ” dream home “. I have to say that the experience of getting the office ready to put onto the market has been a real eye-opener. Some companies, such as our painting company, have been fantastic. The quote was prompt, and quickly adjusted when we added some areas to be painted and subtracted others, and the crew that they’ve sent out has been exemplary. The electrician highly recommended by my sister, however, Mario ( name changed to protect the surly ), turned out to be this guy who “was doin” us a favor by just gracing the building with his presence after 4 days of calls to do the estimate. He’s kind of busy, but will see if he can “fit us in” maybe late next week. Maybe the week after. We called another company that works for $18 an hour more but will do everything on Monday. Spit-spot. They were hungry, and Mario was “doing us a favor” I never do with people who are doing me a favor, because they always screw ya. Always.

On punishing realtors for getting buyers into deals they can’t afford:
Way back almost 30 years ago, I sold real estate to the public for 1 year. Let me begin by saying, I wasn’t very good at it. I wasn’t good at getting rid of the lookie-lous fast enough, and they wore out my tires and used up my gas. My forte in real estate, if I have one, is middle-class rentals that I own and rent to middle class folks. No section 8. Tried that too, and I don’t like dealing with people who are high and disorganized and who let the kids wreck the house. Anyway, back then, we had to “qualify” prospective buyers ourselves, whether it be for FHA mortgages, straight bank mortgages, etc. to see if they could pay for the homes prior to showing them. Then, we could only show homes in the price range they qualified for. Sounds good, right ? It didn’t work that way, because we couldn’t pull credit reports on them, and, big surprise, PEOPLE LIE because they want MORE. People lied to me many times about their assets and their cc debt, BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO SEE NICER HOUSES. Today, that desire has been magnified by 1000x. Realtors want to make a commission, so they let people see whatever they want, and then try to shoehorn them into some deal which everyone knows will fall apart down the road, but by then the banks and the realtors have moved on down the line. If the banks are dumb enough to make “hope” loans on properties based on their intrinsic value if occupied by Martians in 2050 ( I think that’s the current standard ), and the FHA is dumb enough to back that loan up, or some other institution is dumb enough to buy the paper without thoroughly investigating its soundness, then it’s all good, right ? The whole system was set up for failure, lo those many years ago. I think that letting the system fall apart, letting the foreclosures occur, letting the unwise banks be closed, letting the homes go into foreclosure and rot for awhile, is the only way to unwind. It can’t be stopped. I’ve seen many, many foreclosures process through the system in my neighborhood, and have looked at many foreclosures myself, although we haven’t bought any. Eventually, a single mom with a good job who needs a house for her kids, or a guy who can swing a hammer and has a family, come along, and buy the house for half of what it orignally sold for, and it gets fixed up, and reoccupied. It’s working, although boy is the process painful.

Comment by DennisN
2010-01-31 10:05:24

Cracks me up to see the Muslims and the Mormons working together on a project….

They both believe pretty much the same thing. If you live an tea-totalling existance, you will get 72 virgins in heaven/72 wives on your own planet.

Comment by Silverback1011
2010-01-31 10:34:06

Yes, I thought it was quite an anomaly myself. And trying to spell anomaly turned out to be an anomaly also.

 
Comment by JDinCT
2010-01-31 10:44:07

would luv to see an in depth comparison of those two religions….

cracks me up how the mormon religion started with some nut rooting around in an upstate indian burial mound.. (my apologies to any i might have offended)

 
Comment by Danger
2010-01-31 10:48:28

Gong. It’s not acceptable to ridicule Mormons by spreading falsehoods/stereotypes. FWIW, I am not a member of the LDS, nor are any of my family members or friends.

Comment by JDinCT
2010-01-31 11:08:11

I’m the first to admit a mistake, but nor this time….excerpt from Christoper Hitchen’s Mormonism , specifically its founder Joseph Smith (disclaimer: it may be the world’s only true religion, but I can’t tell.)

In March 1826 a court in Bainbridge, New York, convicted a twenty-one-year-old man of being “a disorderly person and an impostor.” That ought to have been all we ever heard of Joseph Smith, who at trial admitted to defrauding citizens by organizing mad gold-digging expeditions and also to claiming to possess dark or “necromantic” powers. However, within four years he was back in the local newspapers (all of which one may still read) as the discoverer of the “Book of Mormon.” He had two huge local advantages which most mountebanks and charlatans do not possess. First, he was operating in the same hectically pious district that gave us the Shakers and several other self-proclaimed American prophets. So notorious did this local tendency become that the region became known as the “Burned-Over District,” in honor of the way in which it had surrendered to one religious craze after another. Second, he was operating in an area which, unlike large tracts of the newly opening North America, did possess the signs of an ancient history.

A vanished and vanquished Indian civilization had bequeathed a considerable number of burial mounds, which when randomly and amateurishly desecrated were found to contain not merely bones but also quite advanced artifacts of stone, copper, and beaten silver. There were eight of these sites within twelve miles of the underperforming farm which the Smith family called home. There were two equally stupid schools or factions who took a fascinated interest in such matters: the first were the gold-diggers and treasure-diviners who brought their magic sticks and crystals and stuffed toads to bear in the search for lucre, and the second those who hoped to find the resting place of a lost tribe of Israel. Smith’s cleverness was to be a member of both groups, and to unite cupidity with half-baked anthropology.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 11:01:50

Politics breeds strange bedfellows.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-31 11:21:49

I think 72 virgins is a lot more attractive reward than 72 wives, which sounds more like a punishment. (The virgins are replenished, right?) :wink:

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-01-31 12:01:04

I think the 72 virgins was a translation mistake. In the original Arabic I believe it says they’ll get 72 Virginians. Thomas Jefferson is first in line….

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Comment by JDinCT
2010-01-31 14:24:06

I presume DANGER’s previous objection re: mormons holds for alpha’s and sammy’s wholly inappropriate (yet sidesplittingly hysterical) comments.

Relevant to the housing bubble? i think it really is. We make frequent reference to the “hope” FB’s have. In some cases, it may better be described as “faith”. cargo cult…et al.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-31 17:32:43

“Thomas Jefferson is first in line…”

As long as he keeps his wig on.

JD- Me a tuff gong, mon

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 06:22:51

The idea that “Russia did it to US” or “China did it to US” handily avoids addressing the elephant stinking up the room, which is the question of whether the ginormous TBTF mortgage securitizer business model wasn’t a recipe for eventual financial disaster.

The Financial Times
Paulson claims Russia tried to foment Fannie-Freddie crisis
By Krishna Guha in Washington
Published: January 29 2010 21:06 | Last updated: January 29 2010 21:06

Russia proposed to China that the two nations should sell Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bonds in 2008 to force the US government to bail out the giant mortgage-finance companies, former US Treasury secretary Hank Paulson has claimed.

The allegation is in his memoir On the Brink in which he also suggests that Alistair Darling, the UK chancellor, blocked a rescue takeover of Lehman Brothers by Barclays Bank when he refused to support special treatment by UK regulators.

Mr Paulson said that he was told about the Russian plan when he was in Beijing for the Olympics in August 2008. Russia had gone to war with Georgia, a US ally, on August 8.

“Russian officials had made a top-level approach to the Chinese, suggesting that together they might sell big chunks of their GSE holdings to force the US to use its emergency authorities to prop up these companies,” he said.

Fannie and Freddie are known as GSEs or government sponsored enterprises.

“The Chinese had declined to go along with the disruptive scheme, but the report was deeply troubling,” he said. A senior Russian official told the Financial Times that he could not comment on the allegation.

EDITOR’S CHOICE

Barclays Capital defends Lehman deal - Jan-29
John Gapper: How America let banks off the leash - Dec-16
Man in the News: Hank Paulson - Sep-26
In depth: Lehman: the aftershock - Jan-29
Paulson grilled over crisis decisions - Jul-17
The lessons: A Lehman deal would not have saved us - Dec-14

Comment by SV guy
2010-01-31 08:51:27

IMO, Paulson is just trying to help mould his own legacy. He is a POS, always will be a POS, who should be tried in court.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2010-01-31 10:01:35

Paulson is a POS ,the biggest one ,but the fact that different Countries can have this kind of effect on our finances is a security
problem . If another Country can create lets say a run on the stock market by dumbing stock ,or force a compromise by saying they will do it ,something is wrong with financial markets .

Go back to the lessons of the Railroad monopolies in America. First they offered cheap fares to eliminate the competition . After they became king with no competition they raised the fares and called the shots . Also didn’t the FBI find some plot to run up our stock market and than crash it by foreign groups . You don’t have to fire a shot these days . Letting Wall Street /Corporations /Insurance Companies run the United States has gotten us into this mess . Main street shouldn’t have been weakened ,the culprits should of been .

Comment by SV guy
2010-01-31 12:41:22

Wizard,

What you say is true. I believe our leadership has left our national security exposed on many fronts. Including, but not limited too, energy dependence, foreign loans to fund daily operations, etc.
Why haven’t we had a Manhattan style project to lessen our dependence on foreign oil? Follow the money I say. What happens when foreign nations stop buying our debt? ‘It’ will hit the fan I say. And TPTB will claim it being a total surprise. Then a commission will be formed to investigate the problem. All while we backslide from former glory.

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Comment by DD
2010-01-31 12:42:42

Follow the money I say.

Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater just to name a few.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-02-01 04:42:43

Our “leaders” have definitely sacrificed our nation’s independence and security with thier rush to “globalism.” Some very stupid decisions have been made in the past few decades which have greatly enriched a few at the top while the masses have been squeezed for everything they have.

 
 
 
Comment by JDinCT
2010-01-31 10:45:35

Re: Hank Paulson POS

Agreed. But i bet the ruskies would try it!

 
 
Comment by measton
2010-01-31 09:20:32

Yep
Saudi Elite and Iranian Elite blame Israel for everything.
Chavez the US
now the US will blame someone else as well. The failed elites have to find someone else for Americans to focus their anger on.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 06:29:14

Whatever the banker men propose as a remedy for the problem of systemic risk seems unlikely to fix it. An independently assembled transnational regulatory authority should come up with an appropriate remedy, rather than deferring to the preferences of the perpetrators of the global financial crisis.

The Wall Street Journal
Bankers in favour of paying global fee
By Patrick Jenkins in Davos and Tom Braithwaite in Washington
Published: January 30 2010 00:02 | Last updated: January 30 2010 00:02

Some of the world’s most prominent bankers have come out in favour of a global bank wind-down fund, a concession from the industry after weeks of fighting proposals for new taxes in the US and Europe.

Government rescue packages for banksJosef Ackermann, chief executive of Deutsche Bank, told the Financial Times on Friday : “To help solve the too-big-to-fail problem I’m advocating a European rescue and resolution fund for banks. Of course, the capital for this fund would have to come from banks to a large degree.”

Bob Diamond, president of Barclays , also supported the idea of a global levy, which could see banks contribute tens or even hundreds of billions of dollars over a period of years.

“I think every G20 country would like to have an insurance scheme that would help cover the cost of any future bank failure,” he told the FT at the World Economic Forum in Davos. “A co-ordinated global system is preferable to an unlevel playing field.”

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 07:29:05

…which could see banks contribute tens or even hundreds of billions of dollars over a period of years…

An insurance fund? A global fund? That’s the solution?

lets see.. hundreds of billions.. sounds impressive.. but haven’t we already spent at least a trillion? On just one country?

Insurance is fine when nothing much goes wrong and few claims need to be paid out. But when a lot of accidents or huge failures need to be covered, insurance companies / funds go broke just like anything else.

Another thing that bugs me.. How is a huge insurance fund insuring global banks fundamentally different than huge GSEs insuring mortgages?

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 07:43:34

Doesn’t sound like it would work to me either, except it might help avoid any move to bust the trusts.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2010-01-31 07:58:34

‘when a lot of accidents or huge failures need to be covered, insurance companies / funds go broke’

It doesn’t have to be this way. Take Lloyds; have you ever seen how many different companies they are? The idea is that if one or several go down, it doesn’t sink all the others. Much like how construction companies will set up separate corps for each project. IMO, where the bigs messed up was ‘layering’ risk across the landscape. This was supposed to be a strength, as AG told us, but instead it was a disaster. And why did they do this? It was easy and was based on the idea that RE never goes down. Yet another fallacy of the mania.

‘How is a huge insurance fund insuring global banks fundamentally different than huge GSEs insuring mortgages’

In 2005, I connected some dots that the MSM never did. Fannie Mae and AIG got caught up in accounting scandals involving off-shore special purpose entities. I found a report that FNM had almost 1,000 SPEs. Then years later, AIG goes down. But we still hear nothing of these off-shore shenanigans? This was like Enron, but many times bigger. Where is the media? Where are the congressional investigators? Who were the auditors? If we don’t get down to brass tacks on the who/what/where of the housing bubble finances, we can’t expect to even begin to understand it. Doesn’t the public at least deserve to know what happened? And if we aren’t given this basic understanding, why should we be content with yet another monster, backroom entity?

Comment by combotechie
2010-01-31 08:10:34

IIRC, Lloyds is more an insurance broker than an insurance company. It acts as a matchmaker to bring two parties together - the insurer and the insured.

Lloyds investigates the insurer to make sure he is good for the money then annoints him with its name.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2010-01-31 08:16:19

This is the murky world of insurance. My first serious accounting job was as a controller for an insurance company. One of the products we had was ’special lines.’ At the time, Lloyds ran into a bit of trouble, and the SL guy told me that if Lloyds went down, SL insurance would cease to be as they were backstopping the entire market. I can’t say if it was true, but was sorta glad to get away from that business.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-01-31 09:10:00

“This is the murky world of insurance.” ;-)

What a concept:

You place a monthly bet to a Corporation that you are going to die, the corporation figures your aren’t, at least …not right away. Each month you send them a cash payment to prove them wrong.

It’s a good thing the Corporation tells you EXACTLY what they’re doing with your cash, otherwise you might want to reassess who you’re giving your betting money to, not that a Corporation wouldn’t want you know such information, being they’re all “up front” about everything. Oh, did I mention ethical too?

I believe this is how Warren started to grow his “Snowball” ;-)

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 09:22:14

First off, i gotta admit I’m prejudiced against a ‘global’ anything that might someday involve the USA begging for it’s largess.

A “global bank wind-down fund” is a very simple description of what must be a far more contentious group than the UN or even a global bank. What board will make the decisions on who is deserving of a bailout, and who will appoint the board?
Will the Yasser Arafats of the world get their turn as commissioner?

I’m sure there are proven ways to organize an insurance fund which minimizes the risk of default. Lloyds model of diversification may be it.
But the skeptic in me sees trouble with diligent funding, settling inevitable conflicts of interest, border disputes (Is Taiwan a country or not?) deciding which failed economy deserves how-much of a bail out and which doesn’t deserve a penny…. things could get sticky.

 
Comment by Silverback1011
2010-01-31 09:38:11

Is it wise to buy a share ( Class A ) or a number of shares ( Class B ) in said snowball right now ? If we’re going to sell the office, we’ll have to put the proceeds someplace ( we’re tired of paltry interest rates ), and maybe we were thinking one share of Bershire Hathaway ? Any input ? The reputation’s great, but is it worth the price ? And Warren’s getting kind of old. They just bought Burlington Northern. We don’t want to make a mistake in getting a share, but it might be a good idea. Anyone with any experience with BH ? We’d appreciate your input. There are lots of cheerleaders out there ( December or January Kiplingers, for example ), but we don’t want to make a costly mistake.

 
Comment by DennisN
2010-01-31 10:11:43

LLoyds actually started out as a coffee house where individual insurers would meet with clients to hawk their wares.

 
Comment by potential buyer
2010-01-31 16:28:00

And it insures anything, and I mean, ANYTHING that no other co. will touch, for the right price, of course.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 09:24:13

“The idea is that if one or several go down, it doesn’t sink all the others.”

= Adam Smith’s model of a free-market economy in perfect competition (the one that underpins a functioning version of capitalism).

Please don’t label me a ’socialist’ or a ‘lib’ for pointing out this connection between the father of capitalism’s big idea and the recipe for restoring the global financial system to a functional one. ;-)

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 09:28:10

‘How is a huge insurance fund insuring global banks fundamentally different than huge GSEs insuring mortgages’

Who suggested there should be ‘one huge insurance fund insuring global banks’? Was it the megabanking industry reps who are trying to avoid a move to break them up in order to restore competition to their industry? At any rate, having only one of anything seems like a recipe for systemic failure at some future point; what is needed is a system where if one piece fails, the entire ship does not sink — i.e., a competitive financial system with less, not more, concentration of risk into one or a small number of entities.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 09:21:23

“But when a lot of accidents or huge failures need to be covered, insurance companies / funds go broke just like anything else.”

This is where Adam Smith’s model of perfect competition trumps the TBTF monopoly model by a wide margin. With competition, insurers which make bad underwriting decisions go belly-up (especially w/o TBTF insurance to make them whole) and those who make good underwriting decisions prosper.

Comment by combotechie
2010-01-31 09:26:15

The bad go belly up and the good prosper.

And we rely on Moody’s and Standard & Poors to tell us which-is-which.

(Ooops)

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 09:29:34

“And we rely on Moody’s and Standard & Poors to tell us which-is-which.”

Concentrating too much rating power into the hands of a very small number of firms was yet another recipe for systemic failure (but also for outsized profits up until the point of failure was reached).

 
Comment by combotechie
2010-01-31 09:40:11

The rating power of both Moodys and S&P was dutifully earned over a century or so and their reputation for integrity was well deserved.

Then … something happened.

 
Comment by mikeinbend
2010-01-31 09:44:12

Paulsen seemed a bit arrogant on CBS this morning; although he did admit to having a problem with public dry heaving while he rammed his legislation down everyone else’s throat.
He also heeded his own recolllections over phone records regarding how many times he had spoken to GS new CEO(24x) over a given 2 day period.

Hammerin’ Hank

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 10:37:29

“…although he did admit to having a problem with public dry heaving while he rammed his legislation down everyone else’s throat.”

It is hard to imagine someone who sincerely believed he was serving the public interest having that kind of problem.

 
 
 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2010-01-31 10:15:09

They already had FDIC Insurance for regulated banks but that didn’t cover all the different games that Banks could get into to sink their
boat . IMHO ,they are trying to come up with solutions that don’t take away the gambling casinos and leverage games once and for all and put these self-serving entities back in the box they belong in that limits leveraged games and playing games with imaginary money .

I made a post a while back that they would most likely have to have insurance on everything to restore confidence in anything ,but that
solution would also come with the needed reforms or the insurance funds would just go broke all the time bailing out the games .In other words ,insurance can make you be more risky ,so insurance should also come with reform of the leverage systems of casino games . Nobody trusts insurance anymore after AIG .

Comment by DD
2010-01-31 12:11:18

In reading this string, it is painfully obvious that the banks, Paulson, ins corps wanting to become one-leaving out competition, and only a few ratings institutions makes this ENTIRE set up look like Junior High /High school clique positioning.
Jock vs gang vs socialite vs cheerleaders against all the other students. Doesn’t it?! It sure seems that way to me, only this is “Big Business” “Globalization”. yikes. lots of childish folks saying privatization is the way, or “capitalism” is THE way(’mywayorthehighway’), “free market” and yet none of it is anywhere near the utopia of those phrases. It is just some sneak bullying the others into believing they better do it “my way” or else.
And, I didn’t like the idea of “globalization” in the beginning. I suspected it wasn’t going to turn out well for anyone BUT the 5 guys in power worldwide.

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Comment by CA renter
2010-02-01 04:53:50

Insurance can obscure the risks to such a degree that they actually **cause** a crisis, given enough time, IMHO.

As long as entities are being bailed out by “insurance” companies (including govt backstops), risk appetite will grow, and people will begin to move further out on the risk curve…coming up with ever more creative ways to supposedly mitigate these risks. This eventually causes huge distortions, and at some point, a crisis will erupt that overwhelms the ability of the insurance provider to make good on all their bets.

Note that the housing/credit bubble(s) grew larger as the insurance components (CDSs, and different ways to “spread the risk”) grew larger. This was not a coincidence.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 06:33:54

The Financial Times
Obama’s one-two punch misses its target
By Francesco Guerrera

Published: January 29 2010 18:15 | Last updated: January 29 2010 18:15

Had I been asked to write the speech Barack Obama delivered this week on the state of the union, I would have kept it short. “Not so good,” I would have advised the US president to say, and leave it at that.

The news here is that the administration and Congress have decided to respond to their problems by picking a fight with America’s largest banks.

In principle, there is nothing wrong with that. Financial groups can easily be portrayed as leeches, especially after a crisis in which they sucked up billions of dollars in taxpayers’ money and regurgitated billions in bonuses for their staff. The arrogance and aloofness of bank executives (more on that later) have only exacerbated the popular perception of a parasitic class looking after its own interests.

As fast-acting political gimmicks go, bashing bankers is a winner. But the one-two punch delivered by Mr Obama in recent weeks – a levy on banks’ short-term funding and a plan to make large financial groups smaller by making them curb non-client businesses – missed the mark.

Other commentators have expounded on the technical merits (or lack thereof) of the measures. My view is straightforward: the tax levy is too heavy-handed while the get-small idea is not heavy-handed enough.

Here is a novel idea for banking chiefs: get down from your ivory towers and propose (not lobby for, propose) a plan to reduce reckless risk-taking without harming the financial system or the economy. A nation awaits.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 07:02:21

..the get-small idea is not heavy-handed enough…

ok.. so lets picture a world where bank size is limited to “tiny’. We got 1,000 tiny banks replacing today’s huge monstrosities. All told there may be 50,000 tiny banks.

Next we have another RE bubble. Most all of the tiny banks are tapped out, lending all their money towards retail mortgages and various construction projects, retail and commercial.. all the bubble stuff.

Then, as bubbles are prone to do, it collapses. Property prices fall, and the tiny banks are in deep trouble. Credit dries up, people stop spending, business contracts, and.. well .you know the rest..

How is “tiny bank world” any better than today’s situation? Can the government let all these tiny banks fail? Or will it be forced to bail them out in an effort to resist the recession and preserve some semblance of economic stability?

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 07:30:58

I don’t see the need for a world where all banks are “tiny.” However, it seems clear that Wall Street’s Megabank, Inc cartel is not very adept at the mortgage lending business, as their mortgage loan securitization sump pump somehow managed to deliver $700,000 loans to Central Valley households pulling down $30,000 in annual income to buy houses they could not afford — a pretty serious sign that something was wrong which was roundly ignored by some of the top financial minds in the world. And given that they rationally expected to receive bailouts when their scheme blew up, who could blame them for their indifference to the problem they were creating?

I suggest Megabank, Inc should stick to the industries in which it is best situated for success, such as automotive manufacturing, telecom and dotcom, and restore the mortgage lending industry to a local model comprised of small lenders who pay the full price of going out of business (i.e. w/o govt bailouts) if they throw away money on bad credit risks. The restoration of competition to the mortgage lending sector could soon transform an industry characterized by systemic theft back into one that provided a useful service to the American people.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 07:50:45

…comprised of small lenders who pay the full price of going out of business ..

I agree that “something was wrong” or is wrong. Will something still be wrong if bank size is limited? IF so, is small-bank a misguided solution? A solution that doesn’t address the problem?

It may be selfish of me, but when my bank fails and my savings account money evaporates, it make no difference to me if my deposits were in a small or a large bank.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 10:04:19

It may be selfish of me, …

You said it, I didn’t. But I will point out that if you are one of the few unlucky folks whose small bank’s failed management results in the loss of your savings account, the rest of the banking system will not necessarily be put at risk.

I think one of the reasons we are having a hard time seeing eye-to-eye on the solution to the TBTF problem is that you seem to insist on an unrealistically comprehensive solution that immunizes the banking sector against any possible future financial crisis. If you can figure this one out, then perhaps you can single-handedly save the global financial system from another crisis like the one at hand.

I would be happy with a less comprehensive but nonetheless practical solution which at least eliminated the moral hazard incentive for Megabank, Inc cartel members to play heads-we-win, tails-you’re-screwed business strategies that externalize gambling losses to innocent third parties. Just fixing this one little problem would be a huge improvement to the global financial system, don’t you think? Why waste the opportunity presented by a financial crisis to make a marginal improvement to the system, even if it does not rule out all other possible causal factors for future financial crises?

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-02-01 05:03:46

While I agree that no one institution should reach “too big to fail” stature, breaking up the banks is not necessarily the best/primary way of avoiding risk, IMHO.

Insurance is a big part of our problem. If they eliminated all kinds of (institutional/speculative) financial insurance, risk would have to be carefully assessed, and lenders/investors would have to be far more cautious about how they deployed their capital.

I still support FDIC/SIPC insurance because otherwise, J6 would have to quit his productive job in order to research the ins and outs of the banking industry; but large financial institutions should not be able to issue or purchase derivatives that are meant to take the place of proper underwriting/research. It’s their JOB to understand what they are buying/selling/investing in, and it’s high time we brought back due dilligence.

 
 
Comment by DD
2010-01-31 12:17:23

Agreed PB.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 07:41:01

“Can the government let all these tiny banks fail? Or will it be forced to bail them out in an effort to resist the recession and preserve some semblance of economic stability?”

There would be a number of potential advantages to having lots of competitive tiny banks instead of a few noncometitive megabanks in the mortgage lending sector.

1) Small lenders whose managers know their local markets (customer base, housing supply, economic situation, etc) have a huge information advantage over too-big-to-manage Wall Street Megabanks.

2) Provided local lenders have to succeed or fail by the consequences of their loan underwriting decisions (i.e. they have no reason to expect bailouts, as they are not too-big-to-fail), there is a natural incentive mechanism that favors financially prudent lending decisions which is lacking among TBTF megabanks who know they can expect bailouts if they throw away money on bad loans.

3) Diving the mortgage lending sector into a large number of small competitors sets up an evolutionary process towards more efficient and effective lending practices. Lenders who throw away money go out of business while those who make prudent loans prosper. Since each lender is a small part of the whole, the collapse of lenders who throw money away only hurts themselves, instead of requiring TBTF bailouts to save the world economy from collapse.

Is this stuff really difficult for you to grasp, Joey? I can try to make it simpler for you if you are really struggling with this material.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 08:31:17

There is one glaring omission to your argument.

Thousands of small banks without the slightest idea of ever being bailed out have not conformed to your idealistic perceptions of them. They somehow managed to get themselves in as much trouble as the large ones.

Please explain why in a way that excuses them..

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 09:17:46

“Thousands of small banks without the slightest idea of ever being bailed out have not conformed to your idealistic perceptions of them.”

They don’t have to conform to my idealistic perceptions of them or to agree with me or you or anyone else. The only thing that has to happen is that a critical mass of small lenders in competition would have to make prudent mortgage loan underwriting decisions which do not amount to throwing away money on high risk loans, and that the Fed/Treasury/Uncle Sam etc let banks that throw away money go out of business. This is the model of competitive capitalism that Adam Smith had in mind. Too bad our banking system’s top regulators have enabled the mortgage lending sector to drift thousands of miles away from a functional facsimile of Adam Smith’s model of perfect competition, to our collective detriment.

I won’t go so far as to suggest that greed pigs with captured regulators could not find some other innovative means to destroy apart a well-functioning, regulated, competitive mortgage lending sector to their personal advantages.

 
Comment by mariner22
2010-01-31 09:26:36

Name one small bank that has bonused their executives tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in the past few years?

We won’t solve all of our economic problems by getting rid of TBTF, but the most glaring example of our economic failures was the government bailing out companies who find it routine to hand out ridiculous bonuses.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-31 11:03:47

I think the S&L crisis shows that the size of the institutions involved isn’t the only factor in preventing a systemic collapse. The S&Ls were mostly small and they all went kaboom at once and necessitated what at the time seemed like a huge bailout.
Without adequate regulation, corruption will find a way in- it always has and always will.

Besides, isn’t limiting size (or ‘busting trusts’) an interference in the workings of the perfect free market?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 11:13:43

“I think the S&L crisis shows that the size of the institutions involved isn’t the only factor in preventing a systemic collapse.”

Apparently it helps the prospect of systemic collapse to have a large, systemically risky enabler providing risk incentives from on high; in the S&L crisis, it was the FSLIC, while in the Great Recession, it was the Wall Street risk securitizer-incentivizers (GSEs + Megabank, Inc subprime mortgage lending kingpins).

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 11:18:16

Corollary: The anecdote would appear to be to create incentives for competition among small, independent mortgage lenders rather than for highly-correlated foolish risk taking among lemmings.

Independent competitors = good.

Systemically risky codependent lemmings herded by greedy profiteers towards the edge of the nearest cliff = bad.

Does that break it down for you?

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 11:28:56

.. a critical mass of small lenders in competition would have to make prudent mortgage loan underwriting decisions which do not amount to throwing away money on high risk loans,..

All it takes is one bank to get the ball rolling.

If that bank across the street lowers it’s lending standards, gains customers, gains deposits, and it’s revenues increase beyond yours, it represents a very real threat to your bank.

Less secure loans they write may or may not default some day… who knows.. The future is uncertain. But the present is certain. Your competition is thriving while you are not.

The easiest way to catch up is obvious: Do what the competition is doing.. lower your lending standards.
———
Competition as a means to keeping things under control is way overrated. One might even say that the stiffer the competition, the more risk people are willing (or forced) to take.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-31 11:55:42

The S&Ls were ‘independent competitors’, no?

I’m just saying there’s more to it than just regulating the size.

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-31 12:28:37

Besides, isn’t limiting size (or ‘busting trusts’) an interference in the workings of the perfect free market?

Not if the playing ground were relatively even and fair.

And “free market” is only “free” if you are Mega.

Let me point out one other thing, if a smaller than Mega bankster were doing bad stuff, I doubt the locals would allow it. When you SEE the ‘guy’, he can’t get very far without Hearing about his bad deeds (newspapers, church, ) which holds them just a tad closer to the Good behavior mark.
Not 100%, but a heck of a lot closer than Mega boyz.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 12:42:36

“I’m just saying there’s more to it than just regulating the size.”

Agreed. You have to make sure that some ginormously influential puppeteer (be it the GSEs, the FSLIC or whatever hugely influential financial entity on high) is not using obscene risk subsidies to herd the whole mass of small, competitive corporations over the edge of the nearest cliff.

Protecting a competitive lending industry from the ravages of large, powerful risk subsidizers appears to be a key part of ensuring the existence of a competitive mortgage lending sector. (Preventing the existence and operation of large, powerful risk subsidizers to begin with seems like an obvious first step…)

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 15:46:11

“All it takes is one bank to get the ball rolling.”

Is this the Domino Theory of lending debauchery?

And does it matter whether that bank is small and local versus, say, Countrywide?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 15:49:03

“Competition… overrated.”

Free TBTF insurance is overrated as a means to maintain a stable and competitive mortgage lending sector.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-31 17:59:29

Prof B- I think we mostly agree, but another way to ‘herd’ the institutions is to deregulate, or not enforce regulations (same thing), and ‘free market’ competition will force the good banks to follow the bad banks (whatever the size) over the cliff. Which is what we just witnessed.

DD- I was trying to make a point about free markets requiring regulation in order to be free (a paradox- like most truths). But as to locals not letting a local bank get loco, I think we’ve seen many examples of just the opposite happening, both in the S&L crisis and in the current debacle. They were all drinking the kool ade. Local and national.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-02-01 05:12:11

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 11:28:56
.. a critical mass of small lenders in competition would have to make prudent mortgage loan underwriting decisions which do not amount to throwing away money on high risk loans,..

All it takes is one bank to get the ball rolling.

If that bank across the street lowers it’s lending standards, gains customers, gains deposits, and it’s revenues increase beyond yours, it represents a very real threat to your bank.

Less secure loans they write may or may not default some day… who knows.. The future is uncertain. But the present is certain. Your competition is thriving while you are not.

The easiest way to catch up is obvious: Do what the competition is doing.. lower your lending standards.
———
Competition as a means to keeping things under control is way overrated. One might even say that the stiffer the competition, the more risk people are willing (or forced) to take.

————————–

Have to agree with Joey on this. Because of time lags, much damage can be done between the time when irresponsible behavior begins, and when the consequences occur. It can take years (as it did during this past housing bubble, or during the stock market bubble).

IMHO, leverage and insurance are the biggest risks of all. Even if you have just one megabank — and if they are closely regulated, have very little/no leverage, and very stringent underwriting guidelines — you will be much less likely to have any kind of financial crisis.

 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-01-31 09:20:01

“…Lenders who throw away money go out of business while those who make prudent loans prosper.” ;-)

MegaBank’s Inc New Corporate name: Fico 800+

“Need a loan, sign here”

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Comment by DD
2010-01-31 12:22:02

1) Small lenders whose managers know their local markets (customer base, housing supply, economic situation, etc) have a huge information advantage over too-big-to-manage Wall Street Megabanks.

2) Provided local lenders have to succeed or fail by the consequences of their loan underwriting decisions

And if someone or one ‘local’ economy were to have serious problems/foreclosures etc, only a local/ smaller than MEGA could be fast enough to market and sell those assets. MEGA would not. They only know their cubicles and spreadshits.

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Comment by Housing Wizard
2010-01-31 10:36:11

Joey ,I agree with you on this one . The problem lie in what any little or big banks or investment firm can do in the markets in terms of leverage games and conflict of interest casino bets .It’s the big gambling casino that is to big to fall ,not the size of some entities .
But,if you only have a few entities than the problem is a monopoly and they can call the shots rather than normal competition taking place . The Wall Street machine of MBS’s became the monopoly that ended up calling the shots on lending during the boom . All the banks followed suite in order to compete and get some of that greed money
that was possible with these Wall Street securities for lending funds.
So,it was the unregulated world of Wall Streets massive lending funds and high leverage games that was calling the shots on the lending markets.
So the reform has to come in the form of a Glass-Steagall type of reform ,which is so simple .

Comment by CA renter
2010-02-01 05:13:26

Agree.

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Comment by JDinCT
2010-01-31 11:00:37

Re: 50,000 banks better?

well joey,
out of the 50,000 banks, maybe some will have managed their risk appropriately. after a crash, reformation of capital, in the survivors, or new institutions, will regenerate a vigourous economy.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 21:35:42

Agreed: More smaller banks and more competition (sans risk subsidies) fosters an evolutionary process towards a sound and stable mortgage lending industry.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 06:36:51

The Financial Times
Can money set you free?

By John Lanchester
Published: January 29 2010 16:50 | Last updated: January 29 2010 16:50

In 1982, partway through my first year at Oxford university, my father asked me a question that took me by surprise. He said, “Do you have enough money?”

It took me by surprise partly because it is somehow, in and of itself, a surprising question – not one that people often ask. What’s enough? We don’t ask ourselves that very often. I thought about what he’d asked for a moment and then said, truthfully, “I never think about money.” He laughed and said, “Then you’re rich.”

I remember this conversation so vividly partly because that seemed to me to be a profound truth: the definition of being rich is never thinking about money. But I also remember it because my father never talked about money. This was just about the only time we ever discussed it in a personal way. He could discuss it in the abstract, in terms of general issues or politics, but to talk about the effects of money made him unhappy. The issues it raised went too deep.

What was odd about that was that my father worked for a bank, the Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation, for 30 years until he retired in 1979. That time was spent in Asia, except for a two-year spell in Hamburg where I was born. So Dad was a banker but he couldn’t bear talking about money. That was why the idea of never having to think about money struck him as the very definition of being rich.

Comment by combotechie
2010-01-31 07:02:01

In some circles if you have to ask how much something costs it means you can’t afford to buy it.

Comment by oxide
2010-01-31 07:09:45

In one of her 70’s trash novels, Judith Krantz described high-end restaurants. The woman would receive a menu without prices, so she would could order what she pleased without guilt. The man would receive a menu with the prices. “If the man must know the price, then let him flinch. If he must flinch, then let him stay away.”

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 07:41:20

i like the theme.. a chain of restaurants catering to young couples might get away with it as long as the girls play along. They usually enjoy a touch of romanticism.

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Comment by combotechie
2010-01-31 08:29:03

Hmmmm. I see a business deal lurking about…

Become the waiter’s best friend and supply him with a menu loaded with outrageously high prices. As he seats you and your date he also presents to you both the doctored menu.

The date is duly impressed with your extravagance, the waiter ends up with a big tip (which is part of the deal), and, of course, the price you pay in nowhere near the prices listed on the menu.

But be careful and don’t get stuck with a girlfriend that expects extravagance…

On second thought, forget the whole thing.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 08:42:05

yeah.. forget it.. i see potential problems.

boy-boy and girl-girl couples.. gotta ask the delicate and invasive question of who wants which menu.
And then there’s the women’s lib thing.

I’m too old and out of step for this..

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-31 12:03:40

the menu and the femenu?

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-31 12:33:58

I’m too old and out of step for this..

I wish Oly were here.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 12:46:35

“I wish Oly were here.”

Her spirit lives on. If you have an idea of what she might have said, please share.

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-31 12:50:34

please share.

She would have said something that would allow some posters to see their “POV” in another light.
I do not have her skill, but maybe will look at older posts and repost.

 
Comment by DennisN
2010-01-31 20:28:58

Olygal would probably have envisioned a human and non-human going to dinner, and only the human’s menu would have prices - the non-human presumably not caring about concepts like money.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 22:47:52

Sad thought for the evening:

Oly never had the chance to see Avatar.

 
 
 
Comment by potential buyer
2010-01-31 16:36:52

In other circles, finances are strictly personal and never to be brought up by anyone else.

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 14:53:14

If you never have to think about money, you are a fool. A sheltered fool.

Comment by SaladSD
2010-01-31 22:37:51

A trust-fund fool.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 06:46:24

It is quite interesting to note that monetary policy measures to offset the forces of deflation are apparently not sufficient to quell populist uprisings in the American populace: No “cross of gold” is necessary to resurrect the populist spirit from the fading collective memory — tight money with limited discriminatory exceptions for Wall Street bankers and other specially favored political constituents will do.

Populists and bankers
Strange meeting
The populist left meets the populist right to hammer the Fed

Jan 28th 2010 | ORLANDO, FLORIDA | From The Economist print edition

Populism in recent years has been mostly a phenomenon of the right, arrayed against big government, taxes and social permissiveness. But the current wave bears similarities to the strains of the 1890s and 1930s. Back then, populists drew strength from anger with bankers and their government enablers for impoverishing workers, farmers and businessmen.

In the 1890s America’s adherence to the gold standard brought on deflation that crushed debt-laden farmers. William Jennings Bryan, the Democratic nominee in 1896, campaigned against the “cross of gold” and “the few financial magnates who, in a back room, corner the money of the world.” In the 1930s Father Charles Coughlin, a fiery populist priest, inveighed against “debt merchants”, the “ventriloquists of Wall Street” and the Fed, “a system owned by a group of your masters and not by the American people”. Huey Long, a governor and senator from Louisiana, attacked “imperialistic banking control” but, like many populists, made an exception for small banks, on whose behalf he forced changes to both Franklin Roosevelt’s banking reforms and the Fed.

Populism’s standard-bearers today also thrive on the anger fed by financial chaos: bail-outs, bankers’ big bonuses and record budget deficits. Mr Grayson hardly has a radical background. He holds three degrees from Harvard University (something he plays down, since it makes people less likely to vote for him) and worked as an economist before earning a fortune in telecoms and law. The Fed, however, is an effective way to grab voters’ attention. “There are very few issues”, he says, “that bring you into contact with numbers with 13 digits in them.”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 06:51:27

Comment to an article from The Economist (”Populists and bankers: Strange Meeting) which I posted last night and reposted just a moment ago:

Jan 30th 2010 6:43 GMT

The Environmentalist wrote:

The Federal Reserve cannot create capital - It can only socialize the losses.

Perhaps bank losses socialized in return for inflation destroying college savings funds is what Americans are irate about. Perhaps Americans are irate about a topsy-turvy business cycle, which is exacerbated by false interest rate signals generated by the Federal Reserve (a collection of BANKERS). And just perhaps having a central institution hand over FIFTY BILLION DOLLARS TO FOREIGN GROUPS LIKE CREDIT SUISSE just makes Americans mad in general.

Or perhaps we’re just all moronic ‘populists’ as The (poorly educated) Economist would have you believe.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-31 12:23:56

RandomPerson made a good point too:

“Is it just me, or does it seem like these “populists” are actually advocating what Bryan was against, i.e. crushing debtors by maintaining the value of the currency?”

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 12:48:39

Well that is (and has been) my question, too. In particular, is there anything within the Fed’s power to stop the damage of a credit collapse such as that of Fall 2008? Damage control seems to be the best we can hope for, and the jury is out on how well that worked and for whom it worked best.

 
 
 
Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2010-01-31 07:00:16

Watchdog: Bailouts created more risk in system.

From AP story this morning:
The government’s response to the financial meltdown has made it more likely the United States will face a deeper crisis in the future, an independent watchdog at the Treasury Department warned.

The problems that led to the last crisis have not yet been addressed, and in some cases have grown worse, says Neil Barofsky, the special inspector general for the trouble asset relief program, or TARP. The quarterly report to Congress was released Sunday.
Over the past year, the federal government has spent hundreds of billions propping up the housing market. About 90 percent of home loans are backed by government controlled entities, mainly Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Federal Housing Administration.

The Federal Reserve is spending $1.25 trillion to hold down mortgage rates, and millions of homeowners have refinanced at lower rates.

“The government has stepped in where the private players have gone away,” Barofsky said in an interview. “If we take government resources and replace that market without addressing the serious (underlying) concerns, there really is a risk of” artificially pushing up home prices in the coming years.

The report warned that these supports mean the government “has done more than simply support the mortgage market, in many ways it has become the mortgage market, with the taxpayer shouldering the risk that had once been borne by the private investor.”

Barofsky’s report echoed concerns raised by housing experts in recent months, as home sales and prices rebounded. They warn that the primary reason for the turnaround last year has been billions of dollars in federal spending to lower mortgage rates and prop up demand.

Once that spigot of cash is turned off, they caution, the market will be vulnerable to a dramatic turn for the worse.

Here is the link to the entire Article:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Watchdog-Bailouts-created-apf-64186481.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

I saw in in Yahoo finance.
It’s a government official finally saying the things a number of us have been saying here for the past 2 years. If it’s too big to fail, it’s too big.
The takeover by the Federal government of every aspect of the financial system to support the continued parasitism of a few large, quasi-government companies is absurd. It’s like living in the twilight zone.
Who would have thought that the government would own 90% of home loans with plans to try and make more, all in the hope of propping up prices until it can unwind itself from these ridiculous positions??

It’s like i said: Ben Bernanke is an idiot, whose only goal is to take bad loans on the “government” books until he can get enough inflation created going forward to sell the crap back into the market at previous bubble valuations. That is the entire plan of the FED.
The FED basically owns every toxic asset that Wallstreet produced and gave all the playerz free money for the worthless paper. IF they can’t get a boost in the prices of the “assets”, then the taxpayer (U and Me) gets stuck with the losses. That is the inevitable outcome. We are stuck while Traders (traitors?) bathe themselves in the bonus money they got from the FED and swapped on the exchange for even bigger gains, all while producing absolutely nothing.
It may be time to look at the revolutionary history books again.
The events of the past 2 years by the FED make King Louis look like a philanthropist.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 08:23:06

Sounds like you’re hot on the heels of the problem. Institutions that are too big to fail should not be allowed to exist.

Q: When the function of a few, massive TBTF institutions is replaced by thousands of small institutions, can all those small institutions be safely allowed to fail?

Q: Does small size encourage better lending or brokering practices?

Somebody needs to look around and see if a bunch of small banks have stupidly lent themselves to death and contributed to today’s crisis. Hopefully we’ll discover they haven’t. Hopefully small is different.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 09:50:56

“Somebody needs to look around and see if a bunch of small banks have stupidly lent themselves to death and contributed to today’s crisis. Hopefully we’ll discover they haven’t. Hopefully small is different.”

Somebody needs to connect the dots from Wall Street’s unregulated subprime mortgage lending securitization kingpins who provided the funding to enable small players to loan themselves to death. Are you somehow missing the role of Wall Street’s ‘financial innovation’ in this story?

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 10:03:45

You blame it on “kingpins who provided the funding to enable small players to loan themselves to death.”??

So, small banks are essentially addicts.. can’t help lending themselves to death if enough dope is available.. and the kingpins are akin to drug dealers.

That doesn’t exactly square with your view of small banks being inherently prudent.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 10:33:06

“That doesn’t exactly square with your view of small banks being inherently prudent.”

You are still completely missing the point of a competitive lending sector, which is that there is no need for all small banks to be prudent in order for a competitive mortgage lending sector to thrive. You just need a critical mass of small, independent mortgage lenders making their underwriting decisions in competition. Those who make bad underwriting decisions fail; those which make good underwriting decisions thrive.

Of course, Megabank, Inc’s subprime mortgage lending securitization scheme pretty much destroyed independence from the top down, by creating incentives for crazy loans (please see my earlier post regarding $700,000 home loans to CV ag worker families pulling down $30,000 in annual income). Since Megabank, Inc had TBTF insurance, they had no reason to worry about whether the money was lost, or even if they wiped out a huge swath of small mortgage lenders with their insane high-risk lending incentives.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 10:34:29

Serious question: Are you really having such a hard time grasping any of the points I make over and over again, or are you just playing dumb?

I have physical limits on how much I can type in a day, you know…

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 10:50:12

Seriously?
I get the feeling I’m riding my brakes hoping you’ll eventually catch up.

By virtue of their small size and local interest, are small banks more prudent than large?
Or are they just as vulnerable, just as unstable, and just as likely to make the same mistakes as large ones?

Is a large group of small banks, the combined failure of which is serious enough to threaten the economy, very likely to attain TBTF status?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 11:19:39

“I get the feeling I’m riding my brakes hoping you’ll eventually catch up.”

Do you do PR work for the lending industry? If not, you should consider — you obviously show talent in that area.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 11:21:00

“By virtue of their small size and local interest, are small banks more prudent than large?”

[Bang
bang
bang
bang
...]

(that’s the sound of Professor Bear banging his head against the wall)

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 11:39:30

Just admit it. Small banks are no more safe or prudent than large ones simply by virtue of their size..

Size has nothing to do with the quality of bank management. Small size doesn’t influence the desire to make a profit or willingness to take risks.

Small banks, if anything, are far more vulnerable to going under while making fewer and smaller mistakes, simply because their pockets are less deep and recovery options are fewer than a huge bank.

A big bank can sit tight and weather the storm.. live off it’s fat .. sell off some assets.. lay off a few hundred people.. etc.

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-31 12:38:23

provided the funding t

They did NOT provide funding. The “Funding” was make believe.

PB, easy- don’t hurt yourself, joey is working for the fed.Thus his see-saw dialogue.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 15:51:34

“joey is working for the fed.”

See my stand-alone remark elsewhere on this blog about the abysmal failure of the Fed’s PR effort to quell the populist uprising against Megabank, Inc.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 15:58:38

“A big bank can weather the storm…etc”

By qualifying for TBTF bailouts for which little banks don’t qualify, since they are not systemically risky enough?

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 16:41:22

PB.. if a group of little banks pose a systemic risk, they will be considered TBTF, just like a big one.

But in order to agree with that obvious fact, you must first admit that “Systemic Risk” is the reason big banks were bailed out.
And you’d have to let go of the evil bankster/wall street/govt insider conspiracy..

So, I doubt you’ll ever agree..

 
Comment by neuromance
2010-01-31 19:20:03

joeyincalif wrote:

Just admit it. Small banks are no more safe or prudent than large ones simply by virtue of their size..

Size has nothing to do with the quality of bank management. Small size doesn’t influence the desire to make a profit or willingness to take risks.

Of course. But if you have lots of smaller banks, the risk of all of them acting in concert to self-destruct is less than a few large banks acting in such a manner. Not a certainty, but it is less likely. Just like wearing a seat belt will not guarantee that you survive a car wreck, but it improves the likelihood you will. Having more smaller banks is like wearing a seat belt.

If they are all acting stupidly, then there is a regulatory problem, as they are responding to some warped incentive in the regulatory environment. This is a problem of government, of “regulatory capture.” Another benefit of more smaller banks is that they would be less likely to effect the magnitude of “regulatory capture” of government, than a few large banks can.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 20:16:04

neuromance,
If we are forced to choose between big, small, or a mixture of big and small banks, the decision is not easy. There are many pros and cons to weigh.

We have tried a lot of variations on our banking systems in the last couple centuries.. have yet to find the perfect one.
Maybe now’s the time to shelve the FED and go with small banks? Maybe it would be better to wait for the recovery? Maybe by the time recovery comes around, it will be better to have big banks?

If I were to design a banking system in my perfect world, it’s most important primary characteristic might be it’s flexibility.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 22:44:22

“If I were to design a banking system in my perfect world, it’s most important primary characteristic might be it’s flexibility.”

If I were were to design a banking system in my perfect world, it would be a competitive industry that provided a net benefit to society.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 10:35:37

“Sounds like you’re hot on the heels of the problem.”

Sounds like you’re doing a little weekend PR work for your banking industry masters.

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2010-01-31 11:26:29

But now the Government lending program is to big to fail . Because the government took over the TBTF in terms of their loss ,than the ‘
nature of their toxic assets to big to fail gets transferred to the Government . So,the banks and investment houses just go back to playing their money making games while main street eats it .

I believe the bail outs even created a situation of the Banks not wanting to take care of their foreclosures or put them on the market and they decrease in value because of this .All the bail-out did was
give the Banks incentive to not deal with their foreclosures and create more blight on the neighborhoods and more loss of value of the assets

 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2010-01-31 08:47:26

The playerz earned that free money. That level of talent is very expensive. Those guys are the best.

 
Comment by SV guy
2010-01-31 09:20:36

“Ben Bernanke is an idiot…..”

Dio,
I like your anger and we share many sentiments but I must disagree on this. I believe that TPTB are living like royalty and are quite happy with the current system. They know exactly what they’re doing. They are just trying to keep us, the unwashed masses, placated while they loot the treasury. They need us to keep believing the charade. The dollar is sound (sorry combo), no new taxes, we believe in the second amendment, we are your friends……………… Please. We have been fleeced people, at least we productive people.

We need to throw the bums out (on both sides of the aisle)!

Have a nice day :)

Comment by DD
2010-01-31 12:41:23

Oly is gone so dio and others make more posts, balance here is gone.

ala ghostbusters.
the pink stuff from under the city is getting excited and growing due to anger/hate…

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 14:59:07

We’ve been fleeced for 30 years.

How and why? Because we really are stupid.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 15:55:28

Give yourself a break. It is very hard for a decentralized collection of individuals to stand up to powerful Wall Street monopolists and their captured regulators.

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Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 18:10:27

It’s even harder when the stupid vote against themselves.

 
Comment by Athena
2010-02-01 00:12:15

It is even more stupid when the alternative to the current boob who is in Wall Street’s pocket is a rose by just another party name willing to also pull the current guy out of Wall Street’s pocket so he can jump in. No difference between the candidates when it comes to kowtowing to the money men.

 
 
 
 
Comment by gal
2010-01-31 16:07:11

In my opinion, based on the article above tomorrow Dow should com down at least 25%…anybody more…?

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 07:04:24

I sincerely appreciate this guy’s efforts to protect the interests of all Americans (not just Wall Street banking interests), but to say “has increased the risk of” seems like a rather feeble substitute for an honest acknowledgment of the all-out deliberate effort by the government currently underway to reflate the housing bubble.

Unless it truly is different this time, I still don’t think it will ultimately succeed.

Watchdog: Bailouts created more risk in system

By DANIEL WAGNER and ALAN ZIBEL, AP Business Writers

Saturday, January 30, 2010 at 8:59 p.m.
Neil Barofsky, special inspector for the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), testifies on Capitol Hill in Washington, Wednesday, Jan. 27, 2010, before the House Oversight Committee and Government Reform Committee hearing on AIG. (AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)

WASHINGTON — The government’s response to the financial meltdown has made it more likely the United States will face a deeper crisis in the future, an independent watchdog at the Treasury Department warned.

The problems that led to the last crisis have not yet been addressed, and in some cases have grown worse, says Neil Barofsky, the special inspector general for the trouble asset relief program, or TARP. The quarterly report to Congress was released Sunday.

Much of Barofsky’s report focused on the government’s growing role in the housing market, which he said has increased the risk of another housing bubble.

Over the past year, the federal government has spent hundreds of billions propping up the housing market. About 90 percent of home loans are backed by government controlled entities, mainly Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Federal Housing Administration.

The Federal Reserve is spending $1.25 trillion to hold down mortgage rates, and millions of homeowners have refinanced at lower rates.

“The government has stepped in where the private players have gone away,” Barofsky said in an interview. “If we take government resources and replace that market without addressing the serious (underlying) concerns, there really is a risk of” artificially pushing up home prices in the coming years.

The report warned that these supports mean the government “has done more than simply support the mortgage market, in many ways it has become the mortgage market, with the taxpayer shouldering the risk that had once been borne by the private investor.”

Barofsky’s report echoed concerns raised by housing experts in recent months, as home sales and prices rebounded. They warn that the primary reason for the turnaround last year has been billions of dollars in federal spending to lower mortgage rates and prop up demand.

Once that spigot of cash is turned off, they caution, the market will be vulnerable to a dramatic turn for the worse. Daniel Alpert, managing partner of investment bank Westwood Capital, wrote in a report that national home prices are bound to fall 8 to 10 percent below the lows of last spring.

The lion’s share of the remaining decline will occur in markets that saw sizable bubbles but have not yet retrenched,” he wrote.

Officials from the Obama administration counter that massive federal intervention has helped the housing market stabilize and prevented more dire consequences.

Barofsky’s report also disclosed that, while the Obama administration has pledged to spend $75 billion to prevent foreclosures, only a tiny fraction - just over $15 million - has been spent so far. Under the Making Home Affordable program, only about 66,500 borrowers, or 7 percent of those who signed up, had completed the process as of December.

He said the key to preventing future crises is to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, create and improve loan underwriting and supervision of banks. He stopped short of endorsing specific proposals for overhauling financial regulation, but said many of the proposals would go far to improving the system.

The Associated Press

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-01-31 09:29:39

“…with the taxpayer shouldering the risk that had once been borne by the private investor.” ;-)

“You LIE!”

Private investor = “…is my bonus considered… shouldering risk?”

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 10:38:13

..reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, create and improve loan underwriting and supervision of banks… stopped short of endorsing specific proposals…

sigh..
I wish these huge intellects would grace us with a workable solution once in a while… something meaty.

I’ve already heard enough criticism, most of it legitimate, to last me a lifetime.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 12:52:00

Do you have any lessons you have learned which you might be able to share here about how to improve the situation, or do we already enjoy the benefits of a Panglossian “best of all possible banking systems”?

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 16:27:30

hmm.. improve the current situation? That’s too broad a question, imo.

It might be best to first decide HOW to tackle the many and various problems across the country. Chop it all up into manageable pieces.

One size fits all Central Planning may be the worst way to go about it… it’s very wasteful and likely to miss the target completely most of the time.
———–

Take unemployment, for instance.
First we need to know what’s happening, and where.

Some states are in better shape than others. Some would benefit most from particular sorts of assistance. Some don’t need any assistance at all. Their most urgent problems may lie elsewhere.

For instance, Idaho took an employment hit and needs tech industry job support. Florida has far different and needs… perhaps a boost to tourism? Or the boating industry?
I don’t know specifics.. i’m just guessing to make a point.
—–

Aside from employment, States themselves should break their problems down to districts or counties. Those counties in turn examine individual cities, and maybe cities then examine and lay out plans for individual neighborhoods.

So, step one, imo is to get a good handle on precisely who will benefit from what, where they are, and how much assistance they’ll likely need.

The best and most helpful assistance might be a loan. It might be a federal or state public works project. It could be a tax break or a tax credit to encourage the purchase of certain items, boosting some area’s primary industry specifically.
—–

IMO, our “national” problems should first be divided into categories, then narrowly and clearly defined, and then attacked on as local a level as possible where applicable.
Know thy self, know thy enemy.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 17:11:36

btw Bear, I know you expected me to focus on problems in the banking industry.
imo, banks are not the problem any more than when you have an empty wallet, the wallet is the problem.

The problem is a lack of money in people’s pockets. That core problem might be viewed as stemming from a variety of deficiencies.. jobs.. industry, trade, growth.. etc.

When money again flows, banks will heal. Banks cannot create money any more than a wallet can fill itself. Healthy economies create money. (yes i know about printing money.. please.. don’t go there.. i’m on a completely different track.)

AFTER our economy recovers, THEN reorganize the banking system to your heart’s content. Regulate the piss out of them and/or break up the biggest ones. Abolish the FED.. I DONT CARE.

 
Comment by neuromance
2010-01-31 19:30:34

joeyincalif wrote:

AFTER our economy recovers, THEN reorganize the banking system to your heart’s content. Regulate the piss out of them and/or break up the biggest ones. Abolish the FED.. I DONT CARE.

Leaving the banking system alone as it is will only increase malinvestment and create more moral hazard, and will give the bankers more power over government, more power to hold the economy hostage. There is a window now, to stop them from being able to hold the economy hostage in the future.

Obviously, we need to clean up Washington too, as it was government corruption fed by financial industry lobbyists which led to regulators being derelict in their duty.

 
Comment by measton
2010-01-31 19:45:32

imo, banks are not the problem any more than when you have an empty wallet, the wallet is the problem.

This is the quote of a charlatan propagandist or a fool.

I think Joey is the former, there is just no way you can not implicate the banks and Wall Street on this. Again we all know that Wall Street has started to hire PR firms to infiltrate blogs in order to tamp down the anger.

Joey, bless us and tell us what you do for a living.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 21:29:04

measton..

I’d be the last person to suggest that vast, ruthless, filthy rich, all powerful govt/banking cabal you’ve fabricated does not fear you and respect your opinion.

So, you’re no doubt right about blogs being infiltrated by a secret army of bankster shills.. I mean.. What better way to cover up a conspiracy than with another conspiracy?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 21:32:12

Joey — Said like a central planner!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 22:38:51

“What better way to cover up a conspiracy than with another conspiracy?”

What better way to discredit another poster;s potentially valid point than by labeling him a conspiracy theorist?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 22:42:11

“AFTER our economy recovers, THEN reorganize the banking system to your heart’s content. Regulate the piss out of them and/or break up the biggest ones. Abolish the FED.. I DONT CARE.”

AFTER our economy recovers, the impetus for meaningful reform will have dissipated, along with the opportunity. The time for reform is now, while the banks are weak and malleable and the memory of the bailouts is fresh.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-02-01 00:59:33

Davos 2010: Soros calls for break-up of big banks
By Tim Weber
Business editor, BBC News website, in Davos

George Soros
Mr Soros called the current economic crisis a “super bubble”

Legendary investor George Soros has called for a radical break-up of banks that are “too big to fail”.

He also backed US President Barack Obama’s proposed reforms to limit the size of banks at the World Economic Forum in Davos.

Speaking at a private lunch, Mr Soros told journalists that Wall Street bankers opposing Mr Obama’s plans were “tone-deaf”.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 07:08:06

Lesson for Wall Street Megabank credit card service providers:

When plankton dies, whales die, too. Enjoy the debtbeat customer base that you so carefully cultivated through the years!

Fitch: Late credit card payments rise to record
By The Associated Press
Tuesday, January 5, 2010 at 11:11 a.m.

NEW YORK — Consumers still struggle with debt and it’s likely to be a persistent problem this year as unemployment remains high, analysts with Fitch Ratings said in a report released Tuesday.

Delinquent balances on credit cards reached record levels and defaults surged higher in December, Fitch said.

The rate for payments more than 60 days delinquent reached an all time high of 4.54 percent for the December index, which is based on performance data through the end of November. The rate surpassed the previous high of 4.45 percent set in June.

Charge offs - loans that won’t be repaid - crept up to 10.68 percent from 10.09 percent in the prior month but remained inside of the record high of 11.52 percent set in September 2009.

Charge offs are poised to trend even higher in the coming months as consumers struggle with debt burdens in the still challenging employment environment, said Fitch Managing Director Michael Dean.

Fitch analysts expect unemployment to peak at 10.4 percent in the second quarter of this year and remain above 10 percent throughout the year.

Charge offs peaked in the third quarter of 2009 with Fitch’s index reaching 11.52 percent in September 2009 before receding in recent months. While recent trends point to higher charge offs, future deterioration is not anticipated to be as severe given that unemployment is expected to plateau, the analysts said.

Comment by In Colorado
2010-01-31 07:46:30

While recent trends point to higher charge offs, future deterioration is not anticipated to be as severe given that unemployment is expected to plateau, the analysts said.

Hmmm… why do I see yet another “unexpectedly” coming down the road?

 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-31 08:12:24

Spoke with a fellow last week that sent in his chase card payment in Dec. His Jan. statement had a $35.00 late charge on it. Stated his Dec. payment was late, by one day.

So what stops these card groups from holding or dating a mailed payment, as received a day late. How would you know? You wouldn’t.

In reading the fine print on the card agreement he found they were well within their legal bounds. He has canceled the card.

I know card companies would rather have direct payments, but some folks still prefer to write checks, as I do. Just think of the billions raked in on late fees.

Comment by REhobbyist
2010-01-31 08:57:12

I switched to online credit card payment two years ago for just that reason. I used to pay by phone, until they started charging a large convenience fee. Then I was charged a late fee for a mail payment. Even with online payment you can’t make the payment on the due date without incurring a fee. Just to be sure I pay two days before the due date. If I didn’t travel a lot, I would get rid of the card.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 09:04:58

“Spoke with a fellow last week that sent in his chase card payment in Dec. His Jan. statement had a $35.00 late charge on it.”

Megabank, Inc’s monopoly power gives them the ability to get away with ‘Screw our Customers’ programs like that. The opportunity for bank customers to vote with their feet when their service providers reveal themselves to be a glorified theft operation is yet another reason to restore competition to the American lending sector.

 
Comment by DD
2010-01-31 12:48:19

So what stops these card groups from holding or dating a mailed payment, as received a day late. How would you know? You wouldn’t.

wmbz, that is exactly what Providian did and the CA DA got all over it, but what the TBTF and tptb are trying or were changing was that they were taking away these things FROM States and unifying( ahem) it into National so that banks and credit companies didn’t have to adhere to States DA’s. In other words, taking away powers from states to protect their own constituents/consumers.
Providian was notorious for accepting payment, but not posting payments till After due date, thus making all kinds of extra monies.
They got caught. Among so many places, there was a PBS, 2020, 60 minutes on this very topic in the late 90s.

 
Comment by B. Durbin
2010-01-31 15:52:36

I dislike Chase ever since my mother had to deal with them after being the executor for a friend of hers upon his decease. It was the better part of a year before she was able to get them to acknowledge the fact that he had died was a valid reason for payments to be late and to remove all the late charges incurred thereafter. (Then she had to convince them it was a reason for the card to be cancelled…)

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 07:10:04

AP: 2009 bankruptcies total 1.4 million, up 32 pct
By MIKE BAKER, Associated Press Writer

Monday, January 4, 2010 at 11:08 a.m.

Graphic shows percent increase of bankruptcy filings in each state last year compared to 2008.

RALEIGH, N.C. — U.S. consumers and businesses are filing for bankruptcy at a pace that made 2009 the seventh-worst year on record, with more than 1.4 million petitions submitted, an Associated Press tally showed Monday.

The AP gathered data from the nation’s 90 bankruptcy districts and found 1.43 million filings, an increase of 32 percent from 2008. There were 116,000 recorded bankruptcies in December, up 22 percent from the same month a year before.

While experts believe some of the increase is due to a natural recovery as consumers and attorneys become accustomed to a recent overhaul of bankruptcy laws, the numbers indicate clear correlations to recession-weary regions. Arizona saw the fastest increase, a jump of 77 percent from the year before, followed by Wyoming (60 percent), Nevada (59 percent) and California (58 percent).

Emile Harmon, who owns a law firm in Tempe, Ariz., said the firm has doubled its staff to handle the surge in bankruptcy filings. The lawyers have been steadily shifting away from their other areas of business, civil lawsuits and divorce cases.

Bankruptcy is kind of swallowing the whole practice.” Harmon said. “There’s little time to do other stuff.

Comment by combotechie
2010-01-31 07:32:58

As deflation sweeps across the land bankruptcies sweep across balance sheets. A bankruptcy is an official act that destroys debt. Unfortunately, one person’s debt is another person’s money.

If you happen to be on the wrong end of a bankruptcy then the money you thought you were owed suddenly vanishes into thin air.

Something to think about when considering where to put your money.

Comment by In Colorado
2010-01-31 07:50:28

Especially when you don’t have the US Taxpayers standing by to bail you out like Megabank Inc. does.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 07:54:06

“Something to think about when considering where to put your money.”

Diversification is king.

Comment by FB wants a do over
2010-01-31 09:35:02

Diversification is king until it isn’t.

How much of that barbaric metal known as gold were you holding over the last ten years? And your wedding ring doesn’t count ;-)

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-01-31 10:32:49

“Diversification is king until it isn’t.”

Bull. Diversification is king. The next asset to bubble installs an artificial king ponzi/madoff scheme. Then reality sets in, the people at the top sell out and the ones at the bottom lose. Then the real king, diversification takes back his powere.

 
Comment by technovelist
2010-01-31 17:51:13

Yes, we should be very worried about a Ponzi/Madoff scheme in gold. That has happened so many times in history, like, um…? I’m sure you can remind us of some of them, Bill!

 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-01-31 10:38:19

Debt-free is very valuable too. Having a steady income, even if your location of where you work is not steady, is also king and buys you time. Being mobile is replacing the tradition of establishing roots in a community and becoming a sitting duck. Unless you are an international investor and can manage your businesses from twelve thousand miles away. But international stocks are part of diversification!

Eventually if you are savvy enough to build up enough of a base of assets (diversified), your rebalancing will play well and you can skim some of the yearly gains off the top without having a job and never stay awake all night worrying about your financial survival.

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Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 18:15:29

The motility you hold in high esteem is the main reason there are NO communities and therefore no groups or organization than can help J6P (or YOU for that matter) stand up to the Wall St. takeover and decimation of our standard of living.

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-01-31 19:33:11

Yes, Eco. But it’s a fact that we are powerless to change. So we can play their game if we are extremely flexible and regard ourselves as sovereign individuals. There are a few people on this blog who have that ugly image flash before their eyes. They are in the role of family members with children in school and spouses who are working. They don’t like that picture of families broken into individual units. But the next GD may make that real. Those people would be best out in rural farm areas. The rest of us will do well fending for ourselves in the big cities where the higher incomes will be. Always have been since the start of the industrial age.

I read about Bangalore India GE outsourcing in the early 1990s. They are CMM level 5. That was my calling card that the end of America’s tech leadership was nigh. I prepared ever since. google this… GE India computer science CMM level 5

 
Comment by neuromance
2010-01-31 19:39:51

Being mobile is replacing the tradition of establishing roots in a community and becoming a sitting duck.

Most people simply do not like being very transient I’ve observed. Some do, and they can prosper. I see corporate executives who frequently hate that “familiar” feeling and are willing to jump around the country and world. But most do not like being transient, and most people crave that “familiar” feeling. And most children do not like being moved, I think is a safe statement. Historically, only in periods of upheaval, are there massive migrations. Civilization is a story of the rise of the farmer and settlements, and the decline of the hunter-gatherer.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 20:48:25

I saw it then too Bill. I’ve been off and on in the tech field since the mid 80s.

I am also aware of the reality that we are a mobile society.

At one time we may have had a balance of mobility and anchors, but it seem those days are gone. But with more fluidity comes less stability. A concept that may work in the science in the engineering world, but plays hell on societies.

A perfect example is housing. How can you buy a house if you are moving all the time? Or any big ticket item? How does that feedback into our consumer driven economy? Or can can one save for retirement if they are laid off every 5 years?

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-01-31 21:08:46

Eco, that’s a good question. In this “global economy” and high mobility maybe there will be a reawakening about the necessity of having a permanent residence at all. Maybe the equilibrium percentage of owner occupied houses (which got as high as 70% recently) should not be 64%, but 50% in this environment.

If I was 20 years old again I would make a major effort to be an international multi-lingual professional. This is slowly starting to take off. But people still have the desire in mind to have roots and start families where they grew up. Darker days ahead may make the international professional the last of the high earners. If someone at age 20 spends ten years traveling back and forth overseas to strange cultures to make tons of money, he could come back at age 30 and manage a business from afar (or have a board membership of that business) and probably have two or three times the net worth of his contemporaries. Then perhaps find a spouse and start a family.

A couple years ago I was asked if I would be interested in working in Europe. I did not say no.

 
 
 
Comment by combotechie
2010-01-31 07:54:27

Also: If the word “debt” is an all-inclusive word that means “money owed”, then this debt-word must include pensions and other retirement benifits retirees believe they are entitled to receive.

But if one takes the time to run the numbers …

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-01-31 10:00:20

Rewrite:

If you happen to be an…INDIVIDUAL…on the wrong end of a bankruptcy then the money you thought you were owed suddenly vanishes into thin air…but the CORPORATION lives for yet another day!

Small fish example: Delphi

MegaBidness = WIN

microproprietor: LOSE

“My liarwyer is bigger than yours!”

 
 
Comment by rms
2010-01-31 09:53:41

“Emile Harmon, who owns a law firm in Tempe, Ariz., said the firm has doubled its staff to handle the surge in bankruptcy filings. The lawyers have been steadily shifting away from their other areas of business, civil lawsuits and divorce cases.”

Silly question: How do these law firms generate income if their clients are lacking money?

Comment by DD
2010-01-31 12:53:05

Paid up front.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 18:18:20

Yep, paid up front. Also, since the laws were changed, you can’t wait until you’re down to your last dollar to file or you won’t be able too.

Then you’ll end up both poor and still owing. Which is where millions are right now.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 07:12:59

Comment: If the Fed has PR staffers working to quell the wave of populism that is sweeping America, then let me be the first to point out that they are failing miserably.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 07:20:08

My hunch is that a simple rule to ban anyone who worked for Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan-Chase, Bank of America, Morgan Stanley or Chase Manhattan from a top government post for, say, one-decade after separation of service would just about fix the systemic risk problem, once and for all. Think of it as a separation of powers between Wall Street and K Street.

What do y’all think about this idea?

Comment by cougar91
2010-01-31 07:35:35

So someone from AIG could slip through this dragnet and ends up being the Treasury Secretary? ;-)

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 07:47:28

Point taken. Perhaps a better proposal would be, say, a one-decade prohibition on Washington employment by any alum of a firm deemed TBTF, with a grandfather clause to protect the employment of outstanding civil servants like Polly? Over one decade, the TBTF problem could be relegated to the dustbin of failed ideas.

 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2010-01-31 08:07:00

Right, cougar. The problem with PBear’s fixation on a few TBTF companies is that it’s strictly reactive and after-the-fact. We really need to focus on eliminating the conditions that allow TBTFs to form in the first place. PBear’s approach is like trying to reduce cancer morbidity solely by means of surgical resection of tumors, rather than promoting prevention through healthy diet and exercise.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 09:00:44

I didn’t mean to claim that I had found a panacea; just wanted to get the conversation going. Any suggested improvements on my overly-simplistic proposal to end the problem of Megabanks with de facto TBTF insurance policies are highly welcome.

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Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2010-01-31 09:43:18

Any suggested improvements on my overly-simplistic proposal to end the problem of Megabanks with de facto TBTF insurance policies are highly welcome.

Well, how about re-thinking the concept of deposit insurance, which is one of the key elements that leads to a perceived need for bailouts? Should there be an FDIC at all? Should it have a different form?

For that matter, why don’t we take a look at banking law generally? What do we hope to accomplish by chartering banks in the first place? Are there better ways to do this?

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-31 12:52:47

How about going back to the Glass-Steagall system that worked quite well for fifty years, rather than throwing the whole thing out the window and starting up the very type of banking system that led to countless booms and busts the last time it was tried (19th century)?

 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2010-01-31 15:28:04

I would say that if the system was that fragile that repeal of 4 out of over 600 sections of banking law caused a collapse of Biblical proportions, it probably wasn’t working all that well…

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-31 18:29:43

It’s not the number of sections removed, it’s the importance of the sections removed. QED

 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2010-01-31 19:41:17

So you’re admitting the other sections are unimportant? Then why do they exist?

Correction to my earlier post– the section numbers of USC Title 12 (Banking) go up to 5,013.

 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-01-31 10:08:17

“…We really need to focus on eliminating the conditions that allow TBTFs to form in the first place.” ;-)

Uhura: “”They” have a “cloaking” device Cap’t Kirk!”

Kirk: “Spock, how we destroy a Romulan battleship that is really just an Indemnified Corporation?”

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Comment by pressboardbox
2010-01-31 08:54:36

No way. How esle can we get “top talent” in our government? We need the best leaders - we need the guys from Goldman running our show. Thank god (Goldman, actually) that some of the Goldman guys are willing to take a pay cut to come run our country out of the goodness of their hearts. Too bad there can only be one “man of the year” - they all deserve it.

 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2010-01-31 09:42:18

Suspect you’ll still have the Megabank campaign contributions to contend with.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 09:45:13

The recent SCOTUS decision has certainly created a daunting obstacle to any kind of lending sector regulatory reform that works. Have the opportunities for regulatory capture ever been this advantageous in U.S. history?

 
 
Comment by DD
2010-01-31 12:54:06

10 would work, 15 even better!

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 18:21:33

How about never? Only in our current bizzaro world is passing laws affecting a future employer or taking a government position that affects the industry you came from not considered conflict of interest.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-02-01 05:40:40

My hunch is that a simple rule to ban anyone who worked for Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan-Chase, Bank of America, Morgan Stanley or Chase Manhattan from a top government post for, say, one-decade after separation of service would just about fix the systemic risk problem, once and for all. Think of it as a separation of powers between Wall Street and K Street.

What do y’all think about this idea?

———————–

Definitely like that idea, and vice-versa (no govt employees going to work in the financial sector if they had any influence on the FIRE sector when in office).

 
 
Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2010-01-31 07:21:36

From a NY Times article today on “How the reform the Nations Financial System”:

The phrase “too big to fail” has entered into our everyday vocabulary. It carries the implication that really large, complex and highly interconnected financial institutions can count on public support at critical times. The sense of public outrage over seemingly unfair treatment is palpable. Beyond the emotion, the result is to provide those institutions with a competitive advantage in their financing, in their size and in their ability to take and absorb risks.

As things stand, the consequence will be to enhance incentives to risk-taking and leverage, with the implication of an even more fragile financial system. We need to find more effective fail-safe arrangements.

Here’s an arrangement. I think it works just fine.
Go after Goldman Sachs, CitiGroup, JPMorgan, et. al and LIQUIDATE their Assets. If the companies are insolvent, then go after the executives and CLAW BACK All the bonus money from the last 5 years.
Go after ALL their personal assets to recover the money they have STOLEN from their shareholders and the taxpayers.
Then, you set up NEW banks, with the money the FED created going to NEW banks, with NEW executive officers, while the others are waiting in prison cells awaiting trial.
That will fix America’s financial system. Instead, the inside traders from Goldman got the “fix” in at the FED and we wrang our hands and figured out how to transfer all the losses to US, while they pigs on Wallstreet ate their caviar, drank their champagne and boarded their jets to fly down to the Caribbean for a pleasant yachting venture in the sun. Oh, they did stop by CONgress for a visit to say that “mistakes were made”, but there was “really nothing they could have done to prevent the collapse of the positions they took.”
They were doing “God’s work.”
“We just need more money to cover our expenses. Jet fuel prices went up, too.”

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-01-31 08:58:16

I wonder if those guys could still perform “god’s work” from a prison cell? Or maybe they could actually meet him for a board meeeting via the electric chair.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-02-01 05:42:23

+eleventy-billion (channeling Oly).

This is **exactly** what I would propose.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-31 07:28:45

Count on our fast thinking gubmint agencies to come up with great ideas such as this one! Hey, we need to dump them somewhere.

Haiti earthquake: Push to send FEMA trailers to Haiti stirs backlash
News from Latin America and the Caribbean

The trailer industry and lawmakers are pressing the government to send Haiti thousands of potentially formaldehyde-laced trailers left over from Hurricane Katrina — an idea denounced by some as a crass and self-serving attempt to dump inferior American products on the poor.

“Just go ahead and sign their death certificate,” said Paul Nelson of Coden, Ala., who contends his mother died because of formaldehyde fumes in a FEMA trailer.

The 100,000 trailers became a symbol of the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s response to Katrina. The government had bought the trailers to house victims of the 2005 storm, but after people began falling ill, high levels of formaldehyde, a chemical that is used in building materials and can cause breathing problems and perhaps cancer, were found inside. Many of the trailers have sat idle for years, and many are damaged.

Comment by Eau Claire Dude AKA Fresno Dude
2010-01-31 10:21:29

The trailers should be OK by now, but checking levels first would be prudent. I have found that it takes about four years from date of manufacture for me to stand being in a trailer. I could never buy a new RV or travel trailer because my eyes water and I get tight in the chest after about five minutes in a new one.

Comment by DD
2010-01-31 12:58:14

Eau, I got a trundle bed once, 5 yrs ago and the mattress is still in the garage because of outgassing.
The Outgassing is still detectable if you get real close.
Now I know why 5th wheelers, mobile homes, trailers all stink.

Comment by DennisN
2010-01-31 20:34:24

You ought to go on a submarine sometime. Lots of things outgas, like the insulation on wires and the foam sound deadening material lining the hull. After a while everything smells like a combination of plastic and hydraulic fluid. :(

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Comment by DennisN
2010-01-31 20:45:58

You know, Jimmy Carter spent years on submarines. Maybe that explains something. :)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 07:51:15

Question: Where has drumminj been lately? I haven’t seen a post by him/her since I was recently excoriated for my cruel and inhumane ad hominem attacks on “certain posters.”

I am curious whether he/she thinks the average quality of the discussion on this blog has subsequently improved or declined?

Comment by REhobbyist
2010-01-31 09:00:47

He was here last week, Bear, posting a link to his HBB software. Unfortunately I need to get a new computer before it’ll work for me. Computer challenged, I am.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 09:06:11

Anyway, I find drumminj’s silence since one of the HBB’s leading PR consultants stopped posting rather deafening…

Comment by DD
2010-01-31 12:59:27

He is in school IIRC or he had told me it was work related and wouldn’t be here so much for awhile.

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Comment by Muggy
2010-01-31 08:35:13

BTW Combo, thank for your message a few weeks ago about a lot of people learning that real estate doesn’t always up and that this was a new idea to a whole generation of people. You put it in a way that my wife understood.

Comment by combotechie
2010-01-31 08:38:52

You are welcome. Glad to be of help.

Comment by DD
2010-01-31 13:00:40

Please repost that bon mot!!

Comment by Muggy
2010-01-31 16:56:27

Comment by combotechie
2010-01-17 09:29:34

“Please respond to this posts with nice, rational simple explanations for my wife as to why renting for another sixteen months would be good.”

1. The global economy is currently undergoing an economic contraction. This contraction is unwinding the expansion that went on for many years previous to 2006.

2. This expansion was mostly driven by borrowed money not earned money. Real estate was the favorite collateral used to back up this borrowed money because it was widely assumed that real estate prices always go up, thus borrowing against real estate was considered almost risk free.

3. Due to this current economic contraction that has replaced the previous economic expansion it is beginning to dawn on a lot of people that borrowing against real estate is not as risk free as previously thought. The fact that real estate prices can actually go down is a new concept to a lot of people.

4. Because people are sometimes slow to accept a changing reality - such as real estate prices sometimes go down - it takes a long time - years even - for people to catch on to what is really going on around them.

5. In the meantime the market will slowly do its work in repricing assets - including real estate - to be more in balance to prices that can be supported by earned money rather than by borrowed money.

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Comment by wmbz
2010-01-31 08:40:11

Nasa mission to unravel sun’s threat to Earth.
A new probe could help scientists predict the solar storms that cause chaos for us. January 31, 2010

NASA is to embark on one of its most ambitious missions in an attempt to unlock the secrets of the sun.

Following its launch in nine days’ time, the US space agency’s Solar Dynamics Observatory (SDO) will spend five years in orbit trying to discover the causes of extreme solar activity, such as sun spots and solar winds and flares.

Scientists have long been aware that disturbances on the sun can trigger dangerous x-rays, charged particles and magnetic fields that can disrupt power supplies, communication signals and aircraft navigation systems on Earth.

By understanding how such solar phenomena are created, they hope to be able to produce reliable forecasts of “space weather” and provide advance warnings of any threat.

Orbiting the Earth at a distance of 22,300 miles, the observatory will measure fluctuations in the sun’s ultraviolet output, map magnetic fields and photograph its surface and atmosphere.

Experts have likened the mission to a “giant microscope” that will capture for the first time every nuance of the sun’s exterior. The images relayed to Earth will be 10 times clearer than high-definition television.

Comment by SV guy
2010-01-31 09:30:15

Oh great,
I can the enviro-wackos pleading for a UV cap and trade system in the future.

BTW, I love clean air and water.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-01-31 10:17:18

“BTW, I love clean air and water.” ;-)

Geez, join the crowd: 6 BILLION+ 2 legged animals that excrete rose petals and their daily musings produce non polluting hydrogen.

 
 
Comment by JDinCT
2010-01-31 16:24:54

see…this is real science….not 4th graders sending hampsters out for a ride on the space shuttle….i think the doomed Columbia shuttle had such a project…it’s PR …not science

 
Comment by Mole Man
2010-02-01 07:45:38

Negative reactions to this aren’t making much sense. Solar storms do cause a lot of chaos, so it is nice to know when they are coming just like other kinds of weather. This should save lives and money for little more than the cost of building and launching a sensing platform. Increased understanding of risk from this should pay for itself many times over within one solar storm cycle, so this is a prudent investment.

 
 
Comment by azrenter
2010-01-31 08:56:59

Great maybe they can explain those large objects seen recently in the sun’s corona. Or not!!

Comment by combotechie
2010-01-31 09:44:05

For some very interesting info about Mr. Sun, go to wikipedia and type in “the sun”.

Fascinating!

Comment by Carl Morris
2010-01-31 10:19:43

From SNL…

Harry Caray: That’s something else. Let me ask what’s your favorite planet.

Dr. Ken Waller: Well, I don’t have a favorite. I find them all fascinating there all a part of a-

Harry Caray: Mine’s the sun. Always has been. I like it because it’s like the king of planets.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-31 09:15:50

Spoke with a RE developer last evening, I told him that I had noticed he has yet to reduce prices on any of his projects. He said, I am not going to, just renegociated his terms with his bank, and will be paying 2.3% IO for 24 months on all of his property.

He can swing it and like the rest of the RE crowd around here looks for 2010 to be slow but increasing and a nice turn around inside 24 months.

I asked how many properties he had closed since the first of the year? His answer was none. He has about 300. Mixed… lots and around 80 houses.

His stuff ranges from low 3’s to low 5’s (houses) and low 1’s to low 2’s (lots).

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 09:35:57

“He said, I am not going to, just renegotiated his terms with his bank, and will be paying 2.3% IO for 24 months on all of his property.”

Game plan:

- Extend govt-sponsored forbearance to anyone in the REIC and their customers until recovery happens.

- Use the uncapped GSEs (among other taxpayer-provided funding sources) to serve this purpose going forward.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 09:40:31

Some potential flies in the govt-sponsored ointment:

1) Too many empty properties physically deteriorating during the waiting period till recovery.

2) Longer-than-expected waiting period until recovery.

3) Disappointment on discovering that the recovery has still left reemployed American workers with too little income to meet would-be home sellers’ wishing prices.

4) Efforts to prop up home prices above fundamental end-user equilibrium stimulate more building, adding to the extant glut of empty, unused homes, putting further downward pressure on prices.

5) Long term trend of baby boomers downsizing from their large, family-sized nests to smaller retirement-community nests results in a decades-long downtrend in SFR prices.

Other than those and a few other clouds on the horizon, my long-term forecast is for a sunnier, warmer real estate market by 2015 or so.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 21:07:07

Caveat emptor to would-be McMansion buyers: Be sure to price declining end-user demand over the next thirty years into your offer price.

Structural change: Builders respond to a shifting market with innovative products

By Carl H. Larsen, SPECIAL TO THE UNION-TRIBUNE

Sunday, January 31, 2010 at 12:04 a.m.

Clockwise from top: Drivable Grass installed at Oceanside’s Fire Station 5 from Soil Retention Co. of Carlsbad; a low-maintenance, fire-resistant alternative to wood from LifeTime Lumber of Carlsbad; and lightweight masonry for outdoor spaces from Eldorado Stone of San Marcos.

LAS VEGAS — Innovation in homebuilding hasn’t stopped just because the bad economy has pounded the construction industry.

That was evident at the annual International Builders Show this month, as industry suppliers displayed an array of new products and technologies to an audience of more than 55,000 building-industry professionals.

In a depressed market, the industry is responding to new economic realities that include demand for smaller, more efficiently built homes that have lower maintenance costs.The era of McMansions appears to be over.

Paul Emrath, vice president for survey and housing policy research for the National Association of Home Builders, sees the mature segment of the market leading homebuilding out of the recession. Increasingly, he said, aging baby boomers want smaller homes that have services such as health care and recreation nearby while embracing new “smart home” technology.

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2010-01-31 09:43:14

Even at 2% say he has 50,000,000 of unsellable inventory. That’s about one million a year in interest.

Comment by combotechie
2010-01-31 17:43:48

And the cost of this million to the bank is … what? Close to zero maybe?

So let’s see: He pays a million to the bank in interest… or, rather, the bank chalks up a million in accrued interest against the developer’s account - to be paid to the bank upon sale of the properties.

Isn’t how this works?

Anyone for a game of kick-the-can?

Comment by combotechie
2010-01-31 17:45:39

“and the cost of this million is …” should be ” and the cost of this fifty-million is …”

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Comment by texasdiver
2010-01-31 09:23:11

Spoke with a fellow last week that sent in his chase card payment in Dec. His Jan. statement had a $35.00 late charge on it. Stated his Dec. payment was late, by one day. So what stops these card groups from holding or dating a mailed payment, as received a day late. How would you know? You wouldn’t.

Which is why I haven’t mailed in a payment since the 1990s. If your card doesn’t allow online payments then get rid of it. Alternatively, drive through the drive-through of the bank and deposit the payment that way. At least you get a receipt.

It may not even be deliberate. The guy who runs their mail processing facility might just be out sick the day your check arrives, or their machines might break down. I never mail a payment for which there is a penalty for late payment.

Comment by pmseatac
2010-01-31 18:17:07

Nope, it’s deliberate. Citibank repeatedly delayed posting of my online payments by up to ten days and then charged all sorts of “fees”, “surcharges” and “penalties” for the manufactured late payments. I stopped using the card, and after several months they sent me a notice stating that they were raising my interest rate to 30% and charging me a $200 “non-use fee”. I called up and cancelled the card; during the conversation the service rep attempted to intimidate me by stating repeatedly that my credit score would be drastically affected by cancellation, and that I would have difficulty getting auto insurance, loans, employment, etc. I obtained a replacement credit card from my credit union. The credit union engages in none of the practices that citibank was using.
I had the citibank card for 18 years and had no problems with them until early 2009. I guess they decided it was time to introduce “innovative financial products”.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-01-31 09:40:51

A reality check from Peter Schiff, who is running for Chris Dodd’s Senate seat.

The Precarious State of Our Union

Peter Schiff
Jan 31, 2010

In this week’s much anticipated State of the Union address, President Obama again demonstrated his poor understanding of the fundamental problems that confront our nation. By following the advice of the same people who helped guide our economy to the precipice of total collapse, Obama now threatens to push it over the edge.

Notwithstanding his well crafted lip service regarding future spending restraint, the essence of his current program is for more government spending and larger deficits. For all his talk about job creation, his policies will further burden those who might otherwise create those jobs with higher taxes and more regulation. While he did call for tax cuts for the middle class and offered what amounts to bailouts for those struggling to repay student loans, such cuts do nothing to promote growth in the near term and will add to the deficits in the long term.

The President spoke optimistically about the future, but in reality there is little evidence to support such an upbeat outlook. He began his speech by assuring us that the worst of the storm had passed. General Custer may have said something similar when the first wave of Indian attacks ebbed at Little Big Horn.

While Obama did have some harsh words for Wall Street (not exactly a courageous political stance), he leveled no criticism at the Federal Reserve or other government agencies that had financed and guaranteed all the ridiculous real estate speculation that precipitated the crash. And while he at least conceded that the prosperity of the last decade was based on illusions, he continued to endorse the very policies that produced the mirage in the first place.

To lead us back to brighter days, he articulated a vision of a centrally planned recovery, where clean energy and a Soviet style five-year plan to double our exports would make our economy preeminent once more. He fails to understand that the only reason our economy rose to the top in the first place is that the government left it alone.

In the words of the Spanish philosopher George Santayana, “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Since our President cannot even learn from the mistakes of his immediate predecessor, to say nothing of those he made himself while in the Senate or during his first year as president, we are surely doomed to repeat them, perhaps more quickly than Santayana could have imagined.

Rather than tightening the reins on the reckless monetary policy that undermined our savings, diminished our industrial output, inflated asset bubbles, and led to reckless speculation on Wall Street and excess consumption on Main Street, we are loosening them further.

Rather than repealing regulations that distort markets and create moral hazards, we are adding new ones that do more of the same.

Rather than cutting government spending to reduce the burden it places on our economy, we are increasing both the amount of the spending and the size of the burden.

Rather than making government smaller so that the private sector can grow, we are making government bigger and forcing the private sector to shrink.

Rather than paying off our debts we are taking on even more.

Rather than encouraging people to save we are enticing them to spend.

Rather than creating jobs, we are merely creating unemployment benefits.

As a result, instead of seeding the soil for a real recovery we are setting the stage for a prolonged depression.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 10:14:23

He has proven himself to be a capable b!tcher. Does he have any ideas about how to improve on the status quo?

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 10:20:52

i was gonna say the same thing..

he’s running for the Senate. Lets see his comprehensive, detailed recovery plan.

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2010-01-31 12:07:18

I would assume his ideas are the ones in the “Rather than…” clauses of the essay.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 12:58:46

..Rather than creating jobs, we are merely creating unemployment benefits.

I think I get it..

His idea is.. to create jobs? Wow.. it’s so simple. Why didn’t I think of that? He’s got my vote, that’s for sure.

 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2010-01-31 16:22:30

Did you read the other sentences, Joey?

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 16:46:44

you mean the part after “Rather than”?

i’ll read them now..

tighten the reins on reckless monetary policy. HOW?

repeal regulations that distort markets and create moral hazards. WHICH ONES?

cut government spending. HOW and WHERE?

make government smaller. good lord.. what a dreamer.. HOW????

pay off our debts. omg.. I can’t stand this.

encourage people to save. [sigh] .. how?

create jobs…??!! freakin brilliant!!!

 
 
 
Comment by mariner22
2010-01-31 15:47:06

The first step in recovery is to recognize you have a problem.

I agree with Peter in that annual deficits of 10% of GDP and 20% underemployment rates are a big problem - unfortunately, most of Congress (and presumably most of their constituents) feel we have other prioriies.

 
 
 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2010-01-31 09:50:52

Jim Bunning grilling Bernanke on monetary policy, housing bubble, derivates, bank supervision and illegal purchases from GSEs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rka9VbPPMys

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 10:10:15

If the Fed chairman did it in order to protect the global economy from the harmful effects of a financial crisis, doesn’t that make it summarily legal?

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2010-01-31 11:09:55

Jim Bunning is getting old ,but I like the guy .To bad Bunning is outnumbered . I don’t know why they don’t just trace what laws or repeal of laws or lack of regulations created the risk that resulted in the crash and bring back that regulation or laws .These jerks won’t admit failure . So what if these TBTF entities are limited in the ways they can make money . These entities have shows that they will abuse freedom
and greed ends up ruling instead and the financial markets just become high leveraged game playing with other peoples money without transparency. Bernie Madoff played a high stake leverage game also ,until it crashed .

 
 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2010-01-31 09:56:22

Charles Biderman of TrimTabs Claims US Government Supporting Stock Market.

http://watch.bnn.ca/trading-day/january-2010/trading-day-january-8-2010#clip253604

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 10:11:37

Conspiracy theorist!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 10:25:21

‘Stocks have been on a remarkable run higher since last March. BNN speaks to Charles Biderman, CEO, TrimTabs Investment Research, who says “circumstantial evidence” suggests that some of the gains could be the result of direct intervention by Washington.’

Would a Fed audit potentially shed light on this question?

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-01-31 10:44:35

I did not read the link and don’t have to. Of course the government is supporting the stock market! 0 rates means cheaper Dollar. Cheaper Dollar means American goods are cheaper and foreign nations buy more American goods. When foreign nations buy more American goods, it staunches some of the damage of lost American jobs and helps keep the 10% official unemployment rate from becoming a 20% official unemployment rate…for awhile.

It buys us time. Put all your trailing stops on your stocks. Ten to fifteen percent. I’ve been doing 5% and getting hits, but no biggie. I like having more cash available for the time when stocks become undervalued again. My stock screeners of value stocks at 52 week lows deliver nothing! So I’m not interested in buying individual stocks except for reinvesting my dividends.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 12:56:24

“0 rates means cheaper Dollar.”

That’s a given. The guy they interviewed obviously has a far more nefarious and conspiratorial form of stock market support in mind than anything obvious and in plain view.

I don’t think you can answer the question he raises without some serious audit action of large Wall Street firms, the Fed, etc.

 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2010-01-31 11:21:45

You don’t say…

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 15:40:07

At any rate, even if stock market price supports are in use, their effectiveness is severely called into question by recent developments.

Question for those who pay attention to this sort of thing: Is the VIX a leading, contemporaneous or lagging crash indicator? (I had thought lagging — i.e., “noone could have seen it coming” and all — but don’t claim to actually know.)

Selling on good news means trouble is brewing.
By BERNARD CONDON, AP Business Writer

Sunday, January 31, 2010 at 10:46 a.m.

FILE - In this Jan. 26, 2010 file photo, specialist Jason Hardzewicz is surrounded by screens as he works on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. The Dow Jones industrial average fell 3.5 percent in January, the worst month for stocks since the depths of the bear market last year. (AP Photo/Richard Drew, File)

NEW YORK — It’s the spoiled brat market.

Dozens of companies this past month posted blow-out earnings but instead of being thankful, investors stomped their feet and sold. The result: The Dow Jones industrial average fell 3.5 percent in January, the worst month for stocks since the depths of the bear market last year.

Investors want more, and they want it now.

One explanation for this surprising ingratitude is that they already had bid up stocks to a level that assumed very good profits. So when those expectations were met this past month, well, investors were less than impressed and decided to cash out.

Or maybe fear is driving the selling, too.

Dennis Delafield, co-manager of the $700 million Delafield Fund, says investors are finally realizing what everyone else has already figured out: The recovery won’t be strong.

“Consumers are struggling, unemployment is high and people aren’t able to use their homes to raise money,” says Delafield, whose fund has returned an average 11.8 percent annually in 10 years. “Growth will be moderate and investors are worried.”

One sign of that worry: The VIX, a gauge of expected volatility of Standard & Poor’s 500 stocks, jumped 53 percent to 27.3 in the trading week ended Jan. 22. That’s nowhere near the 89.5 it peaked at in October 2008 but was still above its historical average of 18-20.

In the past week, this so-called fear index fell to 24.6 but there still were signs all was not well.

On Thursday, Microsoft Corp. reported profits jumped 60 percent last quarter. Instead of cheers, it got boos. Investors wanted to see higher sales to business customers from the software giant, and so they dumped shares.

Overreaction? Let’s hope so.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-01-31 18:24:48

Yes, Google had blowout earnings and I was scratching my head about the reaction. The article could be right. All this was priced in by the insane runup since March 2009.

Selling triggers should be set on your individual stocks. Some of my stocks are still in the red (like…Toyota…). But I even have trailing stops on them.

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-01-31 21:12:37

BTW, thank you for that article. It’s timely. This evening I checked up on my order status of my stocks to be sure my limits are on.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-01-31 21:38:49

And Monday morning’s Asian stock indices are down. Another red colored font day on Yahoo Finance for those stocks. The bleeding continues. Could be a slow descent through December, but a significant descent.

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Comment by pressboardbox
2010-01-31 10:05:56

Get this: My GF’s sister and husband are planning a strategic default to escape an underwater IO about-to-explode loan at the advice of a family friend loan officer for a mega-bank. The couple figure they can buy a bigger house first (for which the loan-officer friend assures them they will qualify) and get a better fixed-rate loan for the same payment as the current crappy one. They are looking to upgrade! Incidentally, the loan-officer guy has told them that he will not handle any part of the deal but will advise them throughout. This couple happens to be very mainstream-type, and would always be doing the popular thing. Look out below.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-01-31 10:21:36

Circa 1990 ;-)

 
Comment by 2banana
2010-01-31 11:07:45

Might not work out as planned. See:

Lenders Start To Pursue Mortgage Payoffs Long After Homeowners Default.

bloomberg dot com/apps/news?pid=20603037&sid=aIf_vUQZFt.s

When John King stopped making payments on his home in Coral Gables, Florida, two years ago, he assumed the foreclosure ended his mortgage contract, he said. Last month, a Miami-Dade County court gave collectors permission to pursue him for $44,000 stemming from the default.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-01-31 11:54:36

Advising people to simply walk away needs to be amended.

Run away.. and hide.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 21:02:11

So you advocate the concept of debt slavery, then? I thought slavery was abolished after the Civil War, but now I stand corrected…

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 21:28:15

Is there an Underground Railroad for debt slaves to escape their Wall Street Megabank masters?

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Comment by Blue Skye
2010-01-31 12:01:17

So it begins.

Debt is slavery.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 21:00:42

That’s right. Think of Wall Street’s Megabank, Inc cartel as the 21st Century plantation, and all those FBs out their working their tails off to make their crushingly large (but low-interest ;-) ) monthly payments on their overpriced McMansion tract homes as the new slave class:

“Yessum, Mr Banksta Boss Man…”

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Comment by wmbz
2010-01-31 12:04:04

Absolutely!

I’m sure rules/laws differ buy state. In my state, once a foreclosed property is sold if there is a balance,then the person that was foreclosed upon is liable to pay the difference*.

I don’t why that should come as a surprise to anyone. Amazing how many people sign their names on contracts and have no clue the obligation they are signing up for.

You owed $200,000.00 and the bank sells it $150,000.00 you owe $50,000.00. Surprise! Not!

*Unless a prior agreement has been reached.

Comment by wmbz
2010-01-31 12:07:31

buy=by

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 12:58:30

bye-bye?

 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-01-31 18:46:01

differ depending on who’s bought the state

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Comment by eudemon
2010-01-31 12:28:02

How much money does city/county/state government make off this sort of pursuit? Something tells me that government officials wouldn’t give a rip about any of this unless it means money in their pockets.

Here’s an idea: HALF of any money retrieved post-foreclosure should be paid out - cash on the barrel - to those not in hock.

 
Comment by reuven
2010-01-31 13:29:14

Bravo! Score one for the Taxpayer / Shareholder. I hope other banks take up the lead.

 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2010-01-31 12:37:56

On top of defaulting on the first home, they’ll probably qualify for the tax credit on the second.

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-01-31 13:33:16

I this a great country or what!

 
Comment by potential buyer
2010-01-31 17:05:37

They must be making reasonable money then, since the background check will show they are making payments on another property. Supposedly loans are harder to get right now, they may just be surprised.

 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-01-31 10:26:46

http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/01/an_insiders_view_of_the_real_e.html

An insiders view of the real estate train wreck - warns that the de facto government nationalization of the housing market through FHA loans and other interventions, will make the coming housing and banking crash exponentially worse.

 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-31 11:18:01

PORT-AU-PRINCE (Reuters) - Haitian police have arrested 10 U.S. citizens caught trying to take 33 children out of the earthquake-stricken country in a suspected illicit adoption scheme, authorities said on Saturday. ~ World | Natural Disasters ~ 1-30-10

The five men and five women were in custody in the capital, Port-au-Prince after their arrests on Friday night. There are fears that traffickers could try to exploit the chaos and turmoil following Haiti’s January 12 earthquake quake to engage in illegal adoptions.

One of the suspects, who says she is leader of an Idaho-based charity called New Life Children’s Refuge, denied they had done anything wrong.

The suspects were detained at Malpasse, Haiti’s main border crossing with the Dominican Republic, after Haitian police conducted a routine search of their vehicle.

Authorities said the Americans had no documents to prove they had cleared the adoption of the 33 children — aged 2 months to 12 years — through any embassy and no papers showing they were made orphans by the quake in the impoverished Caribbean country.

“This is totally illegal,” said Yves Cristalin, Haiti’s social affairs minister. “No children can leave Haiti without proper authorization and these people did not have that authorization.”

Comment by B. Durbin
2010-01-31 16:18:17

Legitimate organizations who facilitate adoptions from Haiti are fending off requests to adopt children who appear to be made orphans in the wake of the earthquake. They explain that due to the confusion of events, many children who are currently classified as orphans may, in fact, have family members who would like to care for them. Furthermore, it is important that you don’t add one shock– a dramatic cultural change– to another– the death and turmoil of the quake.

In other words, legitimate organizations are currently putting adoption tracks on hold, and focusing on immediate aid. The Bresma orphanage, which you may have heard flew all its kids to the US, specifically had children who were already in the adoption process or who were in the final stages of being adopted, and they cleared all of their paperwork first. The ‘adoption workers’ in the above story sound very dicey to me.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-31 11:22:59

Police say ‘Men in Black’ actor Rip Torn, 78, broke into bank with loaded gun ~ Associated Press ~ 01/31/2010

Actor Elmore “Rip” Torn has been charged with breaking into a Connecticut bank and carrying a loaded handgun while intoxicated.

State police say the 78-year-old Salisbury resident was arrested Friday night after police found him inside the Litchfield Bancorp with a loaded revolver.

The “Men in Black” actor has been taken into custody and booked on charges including burglary and possession of firearm without a permit. He is being held on $100,000 bond and is scheduled for a Monday appearance in Bantam Superior Court.

Last year, Torn was given probation in a Connecticut drunken driving case and granted permission to enter an alcohol education program. He also has two previous drunken driving arrests in New York.

Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 18:56:39

Open the one hand, that’s funny. On the other hand, a bad drinking problem at 78 is not a good thing.

Comment by ACH
2010-01-31 20:57:02

Yes, that is very true. Young drunks are a lot of fun. Old drunks are … well they should stop well before then.
Roidy

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 22:34:52

“Young drunks are a lot of fun.”

Please excuse my sexism, but especially females!

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Comment by CA renter
2010-02-01 05:58:11

:)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by DD
2010-01-31 11:23:47

JAL INC. Problems taint the Once TBTF Giant.

What went wrong with the economic giant that arose from the ashes of World War II?

The problems that confront Toyota, Sony and JAL differ, but experts say their struggles have some common themes: the perils of global expansion, a tendency to embrace the status quo, and smugness bred from success or a too-big-to-fail mentality.

“Arrogance and some complacency came into play, driven by the idea that their ranking as No. 1 producer of quality goods wasn’t at risk,” said Kirby Daley, a veteran Tokyo trader who is now chief strategist at Newedge Group, a financial services firm in Hong Kong.

The global economic crisis helped to expose weaknesses, he said. “There was nowhere to hide.”

Added to the mix for Toyota and Sony is intense competition from upstarts in South Korea, China and elsewhere in Asia.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100131/ap_on_bi_ge/as_battered_japan_inc

 
Comment by eastcoaster
2010-01-31 11:32:14

awaiting wipeout: I just read a post you made a few days ago regarding missing your piano in storage. I feel the same way. I was given my parents’ piano when they moved in July, only I don’t have room for it right now so it’s sitting in a friend’s dining room at the moment. Sucks because I’d like to take lessons again (haven’t had them since I was a kid) and would love to get my son playing.

 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-31 11:33:36

Close it down, close them all (bases) down, come home, let the rest of the world fend for themselves. The U.S. is the country so many love to hate. We should stop contributing, we can’t afford it anyway.

Thousands protest in Tokyo against U.S. military presence in Japan
Daily Mail Reporter ~ 30th January 2010

Thousands of protesters from across Japan marched today in Tokyo to protest against U.S. military presence on Okinawa, while a Cabinet minister said she would fight to get rid of a marine base Washington considers crucial.

Some 47,000 U.S. troops are stationed in Japan, with more than half on the southern island of Okinawa.

Residents have complained for years about noise, pollution and crime around the bases.

Japan and the U.S. signed a pact in 2006 that called for the realignment of American troops in the country and for a Marine base on the island to be moved to a less populated area.
Enlarge Tokyo protest

Protest: Some 6,000 people gathered at a rally in Tokyo calling for the withdrawal of U.S. Marine base stationed on the Japanese island of Okinawa

But the new Tokyo government is re-examining the deal, caught between public opposition to American troops and its crucial military alliance with Washington.

On Saturday, labor unionists, pacifists, environmentalists and students marched through central Tokyo, yelling slogans and calling for an end to the U.S. troop presence.

They gathered for a rally at a park - under a banner that read ‘Change! Japan-U.S. Relations’ - for speeches by civil leaders and politicians

Comment by CA renter
2010-02-01 06:01:24

What’s funny is that they were complaining about the bases decades ago. We lived there for a couple of years when I was a kid, and the locals hated us. From what I understand, they’ve been winding down the U.S. presence there for a while. I (now)totally understand where the Japanese are coming from, though.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-01-31 13:19:49

“There is no recovery. The only real economic question facing the world is: Will the economic bottom fall out all at once or will it be a chain reaction? The guillotine, or death by a thousand cuts?

The Trends Research Institute cannot predict what undreamed-of schemes central banks and governments will dream up this time to bail out the toobig-to-fail financial fraudsters, and artificially prop up sagging economies, thereby taking on more debt.

What we can predict is that the commercial real estate collapse, which we forecast for 2009, will intensify in 2010. Though briefly forestalled by government intervention (in the US, TARP, TALF, American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, etc.), the Dubai World debacle is a resounding signal that commercial is crashing. Neither “contained” nor isolated, as alleged, the world is awash in Dubai World clones: overbuilt developments with no possibility of renting and therefore no possibility of paying off highly-leveraged loans. ($3.1 trillion of debt finances the estimated $6.5 trillion of commercial real estate in the US alone.)

” When commercial real estate collapses, the props will be pulled out from under the banks holding the loans. Absent governments coming to the rescue with more prop trillions, the shock from the free-falling commercial sector will irreparably damage the equity markets and reverse modest gains made possible by central bank interventions.”

Comment by ecofeco
2010-01-31 18:59:03

TRI, while not perfect, has a pretty damn good track record.

 
 
Comment by NoVa RE Supernova
2010-01-31 15:03:23

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2010/3704summers_go_now.html

Why Larry Summers Must Go Now!

by Scott Thompson and Paul Gallagher

If the rising movement of American patriots is going to clean out the London/Wall Street swamp of the Obama Administration, not only must Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner go immediately; but Larry Summers, Obama’s chief economic liar and cheat, must get the boot, as fast, or faster.

In a national condition of economic collapse, financial speculation, and swindling, brought on since the 70-year-old Glass-Steagall principle of sound national banking was thrown away a decade ago: This is the government official who repealed it. In the national misery of mass unemployment topping 30 million Americans: This is the “theorist” of doing away with unemployment insurance to “make people find a job.” With the Obama “stimulus” act having clearly failed to reverse that mass unemployment: This is the head of Obama’s economic team who, a year ago, ruled out any program of large-scale credits for infrastructure public works, such as was proposed by economist Lyndon LaRouche, and sought by Democratic constituencies and some Congressional Democratic leaders. With more millions of homes being repossessed, nearly 40 million Americans depending on food stamps to eat, and real unemployment rising over 20% of our national workforce, this is the economics chief who loudly repeats, “The economy is recovering,” even drowning out members of his White House team who know the opposite is true.

As we will show below, Larry Summers’ economic blunders and crimes are many, and some of them have had devastating consequences for this nation and others. (See link for remainder of article).

Comment by CA renter
2010-02-01 06:04:27

Agree very much with this. Thanks for your LaRouche posts/links, NoVa

 
 
Comment by NoVa RE Supernova
2010-01-31 15:22:49

http://larouchepub.com/other/2010/3703aig_must_answer.html

The Case of AIG: We the People Demand Answers.

 
Comment by exeter
2010-01-31 17:40:52

If a already discussed please disregard.

Anyone see NAR’s latest desperatation campaign? Lots of fraudulent TV ads, Radio ads pumping a cheesy propaganda site, “houselogic”.

The tv commercials are sickening.

 
Comment by JDinCT
2010-01-31 18:08:32

Hey PB you missed this one

Verizon to layoff 13,000!!

Comment by aNYCdj
2010-01-31 21:05:03

we are 2 miles from Manhattan yet have no clue what year FIOS will be available.

————
Verizon’s mobile phone business has had unexpected gains recently, but the company has continued to lose subscribers for its traditional fixed-line business. Reporting its fourth-quarter results this week, the company fell short of analysts’ expectations in both sales and new FiOS optic-cable Internet subscribers. The company took a onetime $3 billion charge in connection with the 17,000 jobs it eliminated last year.

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2010-01-31 19:49:15
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 21:25:38

This is one lollapalooza of a sentence! William Faulkner, look out…

“So if you are not personally bankrupt yet, then use all your money to buy as much gold, silver and oil that you can get your greedy, grubby mitts on, because such insane inflation in the money supply is going to result in terrifying, horrifying inflation in prices so that the recent travails of Zimbabwe (which tried this Same Stupid Stunt (SSS)), whose currency went to literally zero value after annual inflation in prices soared past the trillion percent mark, will seem starkly familiar while making every day of the rest of your life into a living hell, while the prices of gold, silver and oil will soar right along with them, meaning that people who buy them do not get clobbered!”

 
 
Comment by measton
2010-01-31 20:06:09

Feb. 1 (Bloomberg) — Australian borrowing for home- buying fell to a five-year low last month after house prices climbed and the central bank increased lending rates, according to Australian Finance Group Ltd.

The group, which says it accounts for more than 10 percent of Australia’s mortgage market, arranged A$1.55 billion ($1.37 billion) of mortgages in January, 19 percent less than a year earlier and the lowest for any month since January 2005, Managing Director Brett McKeon said in an e- mailed statement.

The share of loans taken by first-time buyers slumped to 13 percent, half the rate of a year earlier, as a government support program for new purchases ended.

 
Comment by measton
2010-01-31 20:20:20

Feb. 1 (Bloomberg) — HSBC Holdings Plc Chief Executive Officer Michael Geoghegan said more countries will adopt the mortgage lending caps that protected Asia during the collapse in the U.S. and U.K. housing markets.

“The fact that Asia does guide you to the sort of loan-to- value ratio you should have has certainly helped Asia through this crisis,” Geoghegan said in an interview with Bloomberg Television today. “Making sure people have their own skin in the game as well as the bank’s skill in the game is important.”

Hong Kong, where Geoghegan is based after transferring from London effective today, limits the percentage of a property’s value a homebuyer can borrow, as do China and South Korea. In countries such as the U.S., Spain, the U.K. and Ireland, the lack of restrictions on mortgage lending helped exacerbate property-market implosions, according to Geoghegan

Comment by measton
2010-01-31 20:21:51

apply a law that makes borrowers and lenders keep skin in the game and the amplitude of any bubble will be miniscule compared to what we have now.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 21:20:52

Wouldn’t this tend to defeat the purpose of deliberate bubble reflation measures?

 
 
 
Comment by measton
2010-01-31 20:40:33

In 1987, one year after the last major overhaul of the Alternative Minimum Tax system, only one tenth of one percent of all returns had to pay the Alternative Minimum Tax.

Today, the Alternative Minimum Tax is no longer just for high-income individuals. Now, many middle-income Americans are paying the Alternative Minimum Tax or having their tax credits limited by its hidden effects.

The Treasury Department expects that more and more people will be paying the AMT over the next few years.

In fact, in 2010, the percentage of married couples with children paying AMT is projected to be 39 percent.

Home Equity Interest: Home mortgage interest claimed as an itemized deduction is only deductible for the AMT if the loan was used to buy, build or improve your home. For regular tax purposes, interest on home equity mortgages up to $100,000 is deductible, even if the proceeds are used for personal purposes, such as buying a car or paying off credit card debt. So unless the home equity loan proceeds were used to improve your home, the interest is added back for AMT purposes.

Suggestion: If you are subject to the AMT, there is no advantage to using your home equity line of credit to buy a car, because the interest will not be deductible. You may be able to get a lower interest rate from a regular car loan. If the car is used in your business, you may be able to write off some of your auto loan interest as a business expense on Schedule C.

 
Comment by measton
2010-01-31 20:42:37

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Tax Act, passed into law earlier this year, repealed the individual and corporate AMT for all tax-exempt bonds issued in 2009 and 2010. Refunding bonds which refund obligations issued after December 31, 2003 are also excluded from the AMT.

Normally, tax-exempt interest from private activity bonds is not tax-exempt for AMT purposes. A private activity bond is a state or local bond issued to provide funds for private, nongovernmental activities such as building a sports stadium, industrial development, student loan financing, or low-income housing. These bonds are often issued by states, counties or cities and are tax-exempt for regular federal tax, but not for the AMT. If you invest in mutual funds, the 1099 you get will list how much interest you received from private activity bonds. This amount is entered on Line 12 to show the income as taxable for AMT purposes.

Suggestion: If you are subject to the AMT, invest in tax-exempt bonds issued before 2009 that are not private activity bonds. Many mutual fund companies have two listings of state bond funds, one that contains private activity bonds, and one that doesn’t. Read the literature carefully.

 
Comment by ACH
2010-01-31 20:43:59

This is in the “I couldn’t resist file.” It is an email I sent to Bloomberg’s Joeseph Heaven and his response.
Enjoy.
(Here is the link: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=alrOTKfBPvIs&pos=13)
Roidy

My Email:
You reported:
“He also gave up his $7,000-a- month, 250-square meter house with gardener, located 15 minutes from UBS’s Stamford, Connecticut trading floor, which is the size of two football fields.”

Is the house the size of two football fields, or is the trading floor the size of two football fields?
A 250 square meter house is about 2690 square feet. Two football fields are about 115,200 square feet. The cost of this is $84,000 per year which is a lot of rent for normal folks in a 2700 square foot rental house, gardener or no. For a criminal trader who has bilked the US taxpayer and ran away with the money, it isn’t so much. Now, a 115,200 square foot house is a completely different matter.

Please clarify.

jfanderson57

Reply
JOSEPH HEAVEN, BLOOMBERG/ NEWSROOM:
to bcc: me

show details 12:38 PM (9 hours ago)

The trading floor.

(The house was 250 square meters.)

JH

 
Comment by measton
2010-01-31 20:51:22

The AMT reduces the number of high-income filers who pay no income tax. In 2001, an estimated 100 tax filers with income over $1 million avoided all income tax, but at least 700 would have if not for the AMT. Even so, this goal could be accomplished more simply in the regular income tax.

The AMT is notoriously and pointlessly complex. The Internal Revenue Service and the Taxpayer Advocate have flagged the AMT as one of the most complicated tax provisions to comply with and administer. Most people required to fill out the AMT forms end up owing no additional taxes. The AMT also creates complicated interactions with the regular income tax.

The AMT raises marginal tax rates. By 2010, the AMT will impose higher marginal tax rates than the regular income tax does for 93 percent of AMT taxpayers. High marginal tax rates encourage tax avoidance and penalize work and saving.

The AMT is poorly targeted. Although originally intended to curb tax sheltering, the AMT raises less than 5 percent of its revenue from anti-sheltering provisions, such as accelerated deprecation or oil depletion allowances. In 2010, only about 1 percent of AMT taxpayers will be subject to the tax due to anti-sheltering rules. A key reason why the AMT does not target shelters very well is that the preferential treatment for capital gains—the lynchpin of most individual tax shelters—is not curtailed by the AMT.

The AMT imposes penalties on marriage and having children. Couples will be more than 20 times as likely as singles to face the AMT in 2010. Because the AMT prohibits deductions for dependents, 85 percent of married couples with two or more children will face the AMT, 97 percent among such couples with income between $75,000 and $100,000. About 6 million taxpayers will face the AMT in 2010 simply because they have children.

 
Comment by measton
2010-01-31 20:57:51

The AMT also ignores some itemized deductions, such as investment expenses and employee business expenses, and some medical and dental expenses. It also counts as income the interest from private-activity bonds, a type of tax-exempt bond issued by governments, usually to finance sports stadiums and the like. Finally, AMT rules force you to pay taxes on the “spread” between the market price and the exercise price of incentive stock options granted by your employer. For example, if you exercised an option to buy 100 shares of stock for $3 a share and the stock was trading at $10, the spread would be $7 a share, or $700. Under the regular rules, you wouldn’t pay current taxes on that amount, but under the AMT, it’s considered income.

Sorry, you’re not finished yet. People get pushed into the AMT zone for different reasons, and some are actually better than others. That’s because you could be eligible for the so-called minimum tax credit, which allows you to claim a credit on your tax return in future years for some of the extra taxes you paid under AMT rules. So you have to fill out another document, Form 8801, to determine if you are eligible. For whatever reason, the tax rules say that exercising incentive stock options is one of the few things that qualifies you for the credit, so if that’s the reason you ended up paying the AMT, pay special attention to this form.

“for whatever reason, the tax rules say that exercising incentive stock ioptions is one of the few things that qualifies you for the credit” Nice of the CEO’s to write them in these credits.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-01-31 21:15:16

The end of something?

* The Wall Street Journal
* FEBRUARY 1, 2010

investing for income
Mortgage Funds Brace for Major Shift
The end of a U.S. program supporting the home-loan market could reduce returns to investors

By ROB CURRAN

There may be an Arctic front looming for mortgage-focused mutual funds as the Federal Reserve prepares to stop buying securities backed by home loans next month.

The Fed kept mortgage rates low in 2009 by acting as a buyer of securities issued by or backed by three government-controlled entities: the Government National Mortgage Association (known as Ginnie Mae), Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. These so-called agency securities provide funding for more than half of all U.S. home loans outstanding.

But the planned withdrawal of that government aid may cause mortgage rates to rise and the prices of mortgage securities—which move in the opposite direction—to fall, according to many money managers and analysts, potentially reducing returns for investors in mortgage-focused funds.

“Low underlying yields made even lower by an artificial and temporary market stimulus…just the prescription for bad fun,” John Rekenthaler, vice president of research at Morningstar Inc., wrote in an online post titled “Bad Investment Ideas for 2010.”

Some portfolio managers have cut their agency holdings ahead of the Fed’s planned exit and started looking for returns in a much riskier part of the market: “non-agency” securities backed by “subprime” and other risky mortgages, the area that took such a massive beating in 2007 and 2008. Among those who say they have been selectively buying these securities recently are fund managers at firms including BlackRock Inc. and Goldman Sachs Group Inc.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-02-01 00:54:46

Look on the bright side: At least this money will serve to fund a vital transportation link, rather than getting p!ssed away on some banksters’ bonuses.

* The Wall Street Journal
* REVIEW & OUTLOOK
* FEBRUARY 1, 2010

The Runaway Subsidy Train

By WENDELL COX

On Thursday the Obama administration awarded $8 billion in stimulus funds to plan and build high-speed rail projects in California and Florida, and for other routine passenger-rail projects masquerading as high-speed rail. This is a political plum to the states that will receive the money.

It is also a dream come true for fans of bullet trains in Japan and Europe and the faster, greenhouse gas-belching Mag-Lev (magnetic levitation) lines. But this is not money well spent.

Supporters say high-speed rail is a cost-effective, “green” solution to airport and highway congestion. In reality, it is costly to build and operate and has a negligible impact on highway and airport traffic. High-speed rail is driven by little more than a romantic notion to confer a European ambiance on American cities.

Proponents also claim that high-speed rail is profitable, but this too is off the mark. Internationally, only two segments have ever broken even: Tokyo to Osaka and Paris to Lyon.

Ridership in these markets has been bolstered by high gasoline prices and one-way highway tolls of $40 and $100, respectively. These and other foreign routes have attracted much of their ridership from a strong core of rail passengers that does not exist in the U.S.

The administration is giving California $2.25 billion for trains that are expected to reach 220 miles per hour between Los Angeles and San Francisco. The cost of building this rail line is now estimated by the California High Speed Rail Authority to be more than $40 billion and could be $60 billion or more.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-02-01 01:01:27

Volcker to spell out future of banks

By Martin Webber
Editor BBC World Service business news

Wall Street sign and American flags
How tightly will Wall Street banks be regulated in the future?

Will an 82-year-old veteran central banker be the man who finally stops the music for the bankers of Wall Street?

A Congressional hearing in Washington on Tuesday may well provide the answer.

A week ago, US President Barack Obama, appeared to be telling America that the ideas of Economic Recovery Advisory Board chairman Paul Volcker would be the centrepiece of his plan to make the global financial system safer, announcing that the “Volcker rule” would determine the future of the world’s banks.

But since then, there has been complete confusion as to exactly what the President and Mr Volcker have in mind.

 
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