February 11, 2010

Cutting Their Losses And Running In Florida

The St Petersburg Times reports from Florida. “Developer Joel Cantor proclaims it his ‘jihad mission’ to sell out his Signature Place condominium tower on the St. Petersburg waterfront. His lender, Fifth Third Bank, is putting 35 units up for auction next month at starting prices that are two-thirds less than what Cantor had been asking. Cantor is trying to put a happy face on a hurry-up sales strategy forced by the most hostile real estate climate in decades. ‘We really didn’t have a choice,’ Cantor said of the auction. ‘I’m going to look like I’ve gone under.’”

“‘It’s wildly below market value. It’s a starting point, hopefully. But who knows? That may be all the market will pay,’ said Jon Gollinger, president of auctioneer Accelerated Marketing Partners.”

“Cantor has been charging about $300 per square foot on units that cost him $417 per square foot to build. Auction prices will probably be lower. ‘This auction is not my idea,’ he said. ‘We’re for it, of course. But I feel for my customers.’”

“Signature Place condo owner Matt Bryant sees some value in speeding up sales. As treasurer of the building’s homeowners association, he would like to see the tower full. ‘No one wants to see their values go down,’ said Bryant, who paid $491,000 for a unit in June. ‘But we also want to see people paying HOA fees.’”

The Collier Citizen. “A messy foreclosure lawsuit involving Malibu Lakes has come to an end. The 356-unit lakefront apartment complex in North Naples has a new owner. The sellers paid $83 million for the apartments in October 2005, hoping to convert them to condominiums. The buyers paid $31,019,500 for the development before it reached a courthouse auction.”

“‘It was a negotiated deal. Somebody must have been negotiating directly with the lender,’ said Ross McIntosh, a Naples real estate broker. ‘The lender took a pretty good haircut.’”

The Palm Beach Post. “Four households in The Acreage filed a federal lawsuit Wednesday night alleging that pollution by defense contractor Pratt & Whitney is responsible for the cancer cluster that has caused fear and anger in the pastoral community in central Palm Beach County. Wednesday’s suit doesn’t allege that any of the plaintiffs has become ill, but it says the cancer cases and the resulting publicity have caused their property values to plummet. ”

“Edwin Reyes, one of the suit’s plaintiffs, said Wednesday night that he doesn’t have cancer but has had a skin ulcer since he moved in to his Hamlin Boulevard home about four years ago. ‘I moved out here, and I didn’t have anything,’ said Reyes. ‘It seems like it’s part of the water.’”

The Herald Tribune. “Foreclosures surged 150 percent in Manatee County last month when compared with a year ago, a probable sign that the new wave of foreclosures predicted by several state economists is under way. Michael Moulton, a sales agent who specializes in luxury properties, said the seeds exist for an increase in foreclosures in the high-end market in 2010. Moulton was involved in a $1.7 million bank-owned home sale on Tuesday. The property would likely have sold for $3 million or more during the boom.”

“‘There are people in my generation that were raised where you don’t want to be foreclosed on and have that stigma so they have been expending all the resources they have to stay current,’ Moulton said. ‘But at some point those funds run out and they’ll have no choice in the matter. I think many are approaching that point.’”

From TC Palm. “In Martin County, lenders set a new record for filing foreclosure cases last year and several experts said they expect the high level of foreclosures to continue for at least two years. There is no sign the foreclosure crisis will ease in the next two years, several local economists and government officials said. That means property values will continue to decline as lenders resell foreclosed residential and commercial buildings for lower prices and drive down the real estate market.”

“‘There has been absolutely no let up,’ said Marsha Ewing, the clerk of the circuit court in Martin County. ‘The foreclosures continue to be filed at a high value. We do not see any end in sight.’”

“William Pittenger, chief real estate economist for Seacoast National Bank, said high delinquency rates on mortgage payments combined with a backlog of foreclosure cases because the court system is so clogged leads him to believe the crisis will last until at least 2011, maybe longer. One reason for the persistence of the crisis is that interest rates are increasing on adjustable rate mortgages taken out on many properties bought when the real estate prices were going up, Pittenger said.”

“‘I do expect on the Treasure Coast, including Martin County, that foreclosures are going to stay elevated well into 2011 and perhaps into 2012,’ Pittenger said. ‘We’re not going to get out of this very quick. The demand just isn’t there to make that happen.’”

“Another reason is some homeowners who bought at the height of the market are withholding payments from their lenders, even if they can afford to pay, because the amount they owe is so much greater than the current value of the property they don’t want to throw good money after bad, Pittenger said. That’s a change in philosophy from the past when it was considered more shameful to walk away from a home.”

“‘The social and moral barriers to foreclosure are just falling all around us,’ Pittenger said. ‘People who you would never think would enter into foreclosure are doing it, just cutting their losses and running. They are thinking that, ‘I am never going to get out of this,’ and they’re probably right.’”

The Sun Sentinel. “On an old dairy farm in southwestern Broward County, Armando Codina and Jim Carr hope to disprove the theory of a housing slump. The heavyweight builders are working together on Monterra, a 1,600-home community in Cooper City that’s the only new residential development for 20 miles. The sales center opened a month ago, and 25 buyers have signed contracts so far.”

“Ryan and Kim Scholten signed a contract at Monterra for a four-bedroom home with a loft for $399,900. At first, they looked at existing homes in the area and made offers on three properties, only to lose out to other bidders paying cash. They’d tour 10 short sales and foreclosures in a day, and many of the homes had problems such as mold or missing appliances. ‘It was so frustrating,’ said Ryan Scholten. ‘We were so discouraged. The Realtors would say, ‘No, no, you just have to envision it.’ And I said, ‘Yeah, I envision having to put $100,000 into this house.’”

“Jeff and Dawn Lucas waited six months on a short sale before the owner told them she was keeping the home after all. The disappointment became a blessing in disguise. At Monterra, they’re getting a new house with a pool and are picking out all their own countertops and flooring. ‘It’s a new community, and we hear there will be a lot of young people,’ said Jeff Lucas. ‘It should be a really good set-up.’”

The Tallahassee Democrat. “The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development presented the Tallahassee Lenders’ Consortium with a check for $62,464 Wednesday, money that will be used locally to assist potential first-time home purchasers and offer counseling services. In Leon County, the TLC sponsors classes for first-time buyers that cover such questions and help the individual avoid the pitfalls on the road to owning a house.”

“‘It’s not a dream if you can live in a house you’ve bought for a year or so, then are confronted with an interest rate that kicks up or a situation that you can no longer afford. That’s not called a dream,’ said J. Nicholas Shelley, director of HUD’s Jacksonville field office. ‘That’s a nightmare.’”

The Miami Herald. “While the real estate industry in South Florida and across the country may be showing some glimmers of hope, there still is likely to be more pain in 2010 — particularly when it comes to commercial real estate financing. That was the consensus Tuesday from a variety of local and national industry leaders gathered for the Urban Land Institute’s South Florida Economic & Development Outlook.”

“One of the major problems looming is a commercial real estate finance crisis, as commercial mortgages come due for refinancing on projects that are underwater. ‘This crisis could have a long tail,” said Stephen Blank, senior resident fellow in finance for ULI. ‘The aftershocks could go on forever.”’

“The issue is what the industry has dubbed the game of ‘extend and pretend.’ That refers to a tendency by lenders to extend the term of a loan in order to avoid writing down the value of the asset, which could have seen as much as a 50 percent decline. Some speakers blamed the government for failing to do anything about the problem and propping up the banks with federal support.”

“The question is whether what happened during the savings and loan crisis — when properties were sold off at fire-sale prices by the Resolution Trust Corporation — would have yielded better results. Troy Taylor, president of Algon Group, which specializes in distressed asset workouts nationally, says the key to a successful workout is getting both lenders and owners to accept the new reality of what projects are worth. Until that happens on a large scale, any recovery is going to be hampered.”

“‘You’re not going to see the bottom until you blow through all this stuff,’ Taylor said. ‘Let’s go have surgery and put it behind us.”’

“‘There is no catalyst today for things to move,’ said Merrick Kleeman, managing partner of a real estate private equity firm. ‘Last time the government was the enforcer. This time they’re the bartender.”’

The Naples News. “It has been one year since President Barack Obama paid a visit intended to stimulate Southwest Florida and the nation into supporting the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. At Harborside Event Center in downtown Fort Myers on Feb. 10, 2009, Obama shared details of the stimulus plan, which the White House later estimated would save or create 8,700 jobs by 2011 in the area’s 14th congressional district alone.”

“‘I expect to be judged by results, and I’m not going to make any excuses,’ Obama said as he opened the town hall. ‘If stuff doesn’t work and people feel like I haven’t led the nation in the right direction, then you’ll have a new president.’”

“The $787 billion spending bill was signed into law seven days later. Today, economic indicators show only small signs of an improving economy. Lehigh Acres had been particularly devastated by the housing crisis, with nearly all streets in the northeast Lee County area having a foreclosed home. Bo Turbeville was helping the Lehigh Acres Community Planning Corporation draft a land use plan when Obama visited.”

“‘If I was to be blunt, I would say that the only thing it has done for Lehigh Acres is make the people of Lehigh Acres realize that they need to stand up and do things for themselves if they want to see anything be done,’ he said.”

“Businessman and Lee County Democratic Party Chairman Will Prather said he is looking forward to better opportunities for credit, which he said have yet to materialize. Like Turbeville, Prather said that not much has changed since the stimulus act was passed and that citizens have to take matters into their own hands.”

“‘We need strong leadership and we need to start looking at ourselves,’ Prather said, after criticizing both political parties’ conduct. ‘We can’t keep looking to government to solve all of our problems, and as a community we need to learn how to inspire ourselves.’”




RSS feed | Trackback URI

103 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2010-02-11 07:21:29

‘No one wants to see their values go down,’ said Bryant, who paid $491,000 for a unit in June’

June? Dude, you’re toast and you might as well butter up.

Comment by Bad Andy
2010-02-11 07:38:01

$491K for a condo? In this market?

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2010-02-11 07:59:01

During our two-week visit to Sarasota in January, it was too cold most days for any outdoor activity like golf, tennis or walking the beach. So we hooked up with a realtor to show us some condos (not gulf-front). In most cases he was quite frank in saying “you can offer considerably less than the asking price.” Indeed, the asking prices of all the nicer units we saw were well out of line with today’s market.

I occasionally check prices in the Daytona Beach neighborhood where good friends bought in 2006. As you can imagine, they’ve taken about a 35% haircut. And that’s current ASKING prices. According to the property appraiser’s web site, they did manage to appeal their property assessment and tax bill down by about 20%, which wasn’t enough. We were polite enough not the bring up the subject when we visited them.

Comment by Bad Andy
2010-02-11 08:59:11

I can’t speak for Sarasota or Daytona, but there are condo units that sold for $250K at the peak selling for $50K now in Palm Beach County. These are mostly the garbage conversions. The ones that were selling for $400K that were built as condos are still pulling in $100K to $150K depending on the location and whether you can find a sucker…err buyer.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2010-02-11 09:26:07

Correction. Based on a couple of new listings in their community, our Daytona friends are down 50% from what they paid at the peak in 2006.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2010-02-11 12:05:46

I live right next to Daytona and prices here on condos have fallen 50%-75% off the peak (real selling prices - not bogus realtor listing prices) The real estate market (commercial too) is a FIASCO! I may talk out my ass in general, but when it comes to my area I can give you an accurate report.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2010-02-11 13:30:49

Again, we see story after story comparing the current, more reasonable market, to the “mania pricing” of the mid-2000’s.
It takes a long time for people to re-adjust their thinking to what normal pricing should be. And, of course, no one wants or can afford to take a major loss on a house purchase. It’s just no supposed to work that way.
That is why the FED’s should have worked to intervene and stop the madness of free-money lending in early 2000’s.
I suspect it will be 3 to 5 more years for people to stop thinking about “what i could have gotten int 2006″ or “what it sold for at the top”. Those comparisons are meaningless, except as a sales tool to make you think you are getting a good deal. “i bought it at half-off!!!” “what a deal”. Truth: you paid current market price and will probably re-sell it for a similar amount over the next 5 years.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2010-02-11 07:46:15

I had a realtor in Palm Beach County tell me last week that I was just throwing my money away renting. I told him that I had saved two-hundred-thousand dollars by renting and not owning in South Florida the last four years.

Comment by Bad Andy
2010-02-11 08:54:40

You probably saved your good credit too. Now is not the time to buy either. There are WAY too many housing units just waiting to come to market in Palm Beach County. Mine is one of them.

Comment by bob
2010-02-11 09:25:37

New technique that is working well. After friends/family ask questions whether i am buying finally, i send them links to the falling asking prices on a few Redfin listings. And then specify my $/sqft target for buying

Even though Seattle has not fallen anyway close to other places, they get it when they see #s on a particular condo.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2010-02-11 13:37:37

Yea, he would have sold you on their “Best Time 2 Buy” campaign two years ago. You would have been screwed.
I really wish some unhappy buyers would start a class-action suit against the NAR. From my perspective, it appears to me that they are providing financial advice that people materially rely upon to make major financial decisions. Since they are “professionals” they should be held accountable when the bad advice materially impacts a families personal results in the marketplace.
I even think the RICO statutes should apply. After all, when a “good deal” is about to make it to the market, their members pull it off the market, buy, re-price and re-sell at an inflated price. They help pump up the market artificially by all the shenanigans that went on.
Remember the “Suzanne” commercials.
You can do this. Suzanne researched it…………..Well, they did it.

Comment by pismoclam
2010-02-11 17:00:40

Where is ‘Nina’ these days ? You know, she was the gal who was flipping with some partners in the Palm Desert or Palm Springs area.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by Kim
2010-02-11 08:48:37

“Cantor has been charging about $300 per square foot on units that cost him $417 per square foot to build.”

$417/sf is the builders COST? Idiots.

Comment by Michael Fink
2010-02-11 09:21:08

ROFL.

Yeah.. Right.. Unless that house is built using gold bricks in the foundation, there’s not a chance in h*** that the cost to build in FL comes anywhere NEAR 400/sq/ft. The big builders are between 50-150/sq/ft (depending on how upgraded), but no where near 400!!

Idiots.

Now, it’s entirely possible that the builder is paying 400/sq/ft as an “all in” cost. But, if so, it’s because he paid 20X the value of the land that the property sits on! Land was the real bubble, and builders were just as stupid as buyers; paying WAY too much money for land that’s effectively without value.

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-02-11 12:15:42

Don’t forget that when these things were built contractors/suppliers were bending everybody over with costs of almost 100% higher than they are today. Materials and labor have come way down.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by scdave
2010-02-11 09:59:15

High rise construction (more than three stories over parking) is very, very, VERY expensive to build….Your estimate of $100-$150 per foot for the building is way to low Michael…

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-02-11 12:25:34

Yeah, and getting the favorable zoning changes and tax breaks needed to build large condoze in built up areas is not cheap. Many of those dollars per square foot go right into greasy palms.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Ol'Bubba
2010-02-11 13:56:23

I think the term you’re looking for is “soft costs”.

 
Comment by scdave
2010-02-11 14:08:30

Yep…

 
 
 
Comment by denquiry
2010-02-11 13:39:49

BTW, the cost of doing business is a lot more expensive because one has a lot more palms to “grease.”

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2010-02-11 10:04:26

Does anyone know if that is Matt Bryant, the fired Buccaneer kicker?

 
Comment by snake charmer
2010-02-11 11:06:00

He’s got the same name as the Tampa Bay Buccaneers’ former kicker. If it’s him, I think he has the money to lose.

Comment by oxide
2010-02-11 19:25:30

Wikipedia says that Matt Bryant the placekicker was just signed to Atlanta. He’s married but his infant son died of SIDS. He’s probably not the same guy.

 
 
 
Comment by 20910
2010-02-11 07:55:08

“It’s wildly below market value.”

Two seconds later: “But who knows? That may be all the market will pay.”

Umm, huh? Then it’s not wildly below market value, is it?

Comment by ACH
2010-02-11 11:52:43

“It’s wildly below market value.”
Translation:
“I paid too much but nowhere near $400/sqft. I’m claiming that cost so that I can “undercharge” without undercharging and make people think they got a deal.”

He actually paid somewhere south of $280/sqft.

Roidy

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-02-11 07:55:47

“Developer Joel Cantor proclaims it his ‘jihad mission’

So Joel/mujahid, is a muslim and thinks selling condos his religious duty?

Comment by Backstage
2010-02-11 09:29:12

And then he says: ‘I’m going to look like I’ve gone under.’

Joel, a couple of notes for you:

1. You went under in 2006. The fact that it’s taken almost four years to realize it says a lot about ‘trying to put a happy face’ on things. Try a little realism. Try cutting prices. Had you done that in 2006, 2007, 2008 or 2009 you wouldn’t need a ‘jihad.’

2. This isn’t about you. I know it hurts your giant ego to think about it that way, but you failed.

3. You deserve to go under, and now everyone knows it.

 
Comment by Backstage
2010-02-11 09:32:16

He and Blankfein are doing God’s work. But God must like Lloyd more.

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-02-11 12:08:12

Blankfein has declared a jihad on all that is just. The man is the devil.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-02-11 09:52:10

Sorry, Joel, but your jihad analogy doesn’t cut it. My understanding of jihad is that it’s the battle against the self — and one wins this battle through continuous efforts toward becoming a better person.

 
Comment by Jimmy Jazz
2010-02-11 10:44:00

He should rename the building the Allahu Akbar Arms.

 
 
Comment by combotechie
2010-02-11 07:58:18

“It’s wildly below market value.”

“That may be all the market will pay.”

Econ 101.

Comment by Muggy
2010-02-11 10:06:57

Econ .000001

 
Comment by pressboardbox
2010-02-11 12:11:44

Ice cubes are a “steal” in Antarctica.

Comment by mikey
2010-02-11 14:31:15

“Ice cubes are a “steal” in Antarctica”

That’s only because mikey was making them cheap and was under-cutting them in Wisconsin earlier this week.

43 and sunny today and I’m going out of business.

:)

 
 
 
Comment by MarkinSanDiego
2010-02-11 09:07:18

And from the other coast . . .same thing happening here - people who were paying their mortgages for the past three or four years waiting for the market to get better, are now realizing that it isn’t getting better anytime soon - and they are walking away. Banks are so far behind on foreclosures, that places are just sitting empty, and sometimes get trashed, bringing down values even more. . .and with condos?. . .people send in the keys, but banks don’t take posession because then THEY would have to pay the HOA’s. . .so no one is paying on empty units. 2012 is now the best guess for bottom.

 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2010-02-11 09:16:14

“At Monterra, they’re getting a new house with a pool and are picking out all their own countertops and flooring. ‘It’s a new community, and we hear there will be a lot of young people,’ said Jeff Lucas. ‘It should be a really good set-up.’”

Does it come with a HELOC too? Wow! Imagine, a HELOC in every pot.

Comment by Bad Andy
2010-02-11 09:17:51

Buy now or be priced out forever is what I say.

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2010-02-11 10:24:05

On the treadmill this morning, I watched ” Real Estate Intervention” on HULU. The reality of a short sale was the topic. The twenty something was 100% financed, and bought at the top of the bubble. She had no idea what a neg am was, and was surprised to find out her balance went up, thus her payment was about to go up $800/mo. She called it predatory lending. Hand me a hanky.

(Disclamer: I’ve never watched the show before, but was curious.)

Comment by Jimmy Jazz
2010-02-11 10:57:57

I have learned from an endless parade of FBs that “predatory lending” means any loan where they don’t get double digit annual appreciation on their property.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2010-02-11 11:30:22

My conclusion too, Jimmy Jazz.

She was part of the wave of idiots, now stop being a “Drama Queen”. The Realtor Host guy actually called her one. She was going to the bank with a hard luck story, including her mother is dying of cancer. (recourse state) Her mother doesn’t live with her, so I didn’t get the connection.

This country is getting scarier day by day.

 
 
Comment by Fitzclarence
2010-02-11 11:47:24

Predatory stupidity is more like it.

It’s amazing that people like that even live to see their 20’s. Don’t people have coworkers, family, friends, attorneys, brokers, accountants, … to advise them? Did no one at any point in the process suggest that this might not be a good idea? Not even the selling broker, lending banker or appriaser? I’m guessing she “didn’t read all of those confusing pages of fine print” at the closing either. She was probably texting somebody on her Blackberry instead of paying attention anyway (”OMG - I’m here buying the house with no money!”).

On a completely separate note, what kind of treadmill do you have? Can you recommend a solid brand/model? I’m looking for a reputable, reliable treadmill for brisk walking and light jogging.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2010-02-11 12:11:14

First, I bought a $3,300 Precor and it was in the trash 6 months later. What a total piece of trash. Constantly breaking down. The repair guy new the house!

Then I went to Big 5 and spent $400 on a Pro-Form which lasted 16 years of daily use, by 2 people for 1.5 hours a day.

So, when it finally gave out, I went back to Big 5 and got another Pro-Form (XP 580 - $600). One firm makes or bought a lot of the treadmill companies, Icon Health and Fitness. (online search)
Oh, and Icon is great should you need to replace the belt from wear. They have it in stock.

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2010-02-11 12:17:13

Sears is a great place for treadmills, believe it or not. They have/had some great guarantees, a good selection and prices. I bought it at Big 5 because of a super sale.

 
Comment by Fitzclarence
2010-02-11 12:17:56

Thanks much, wipeout — I appreciate the info.

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2010-02-11 12:51:50

You’re welcome, Fitzclarence. I hope it wasn’t TMI. (My downside) Also, I stand corrected, I purchased a XP-580S in 2008 for the $600-. I love it. Much quieter than it’s predecessor. But then again, I had that one for 16 glorious years. Never broke down, not even once.

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2010-02-11 12:56:30

I know what “never” means…I got carried away! Sorry.

 
Comment by Cassandra
2010-02-11 13:28:21

when ever I hear treadmill, I think gerbils…

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-02-11 14:46:16

Treadmills were historically used as a method of reforming offenders in prison, an innovation introduced by Sir William Cubitt in 1817.

wiki

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2010-02-11 18:20:32

joey-
Interesting post.
Come rain or come shine, I get my daily treadmill time in.

 
 
 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2010-02-11 11:12:29

It’s amazing how brochures and websites featuring children and young, attractive people still convince buyers to overpay, although this subdivision is closer to economic reality than many of its predecessors.

http://www.monterrafl.com/cooper-city-life

Comment by In Montana
2010-02-11 14:57:28

The newer condos here seemed to fixate on images of young adults on bicycles - laughing and smiling! So I guess the buyers are supposed to think, gee if I buy a condo there I’ll finally get that bike out and ride it! Wow!

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-02-11 15:18:18

Oh, brother. That “get the bike out and ride it” thing. Used to hear that one all the time when I worked in the bike shop.

And, you guessed it, the people who actually followed through on what they said they’d do were few and far between.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by scdave
2010-02-11 10:05:23

Question; Do we have anybody posting on the HBB from Austin anymore ?? I know in the past we did have one but I cannot remember the name…I would be interested in hearing a “Local Market Observation” from someone there…

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-02-11 10:52:03

Wasn’t Hip in Zilker posting from Austin?

Comment by scdave
2010-02-11 11:12:57

Not sure Slim…I do recall whoever it was they were renting in downtown Austin…

Comment by Bronco
2010-02-11 12:46:19

think that was Brett?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-02-11 21:43:37

Yeah, Hip in Zilker was posting from Austin. (Zilker is a neighborhood near downtown.) I’ve been wondering about her (?) myself for a while. As a fellow gardener, I wanted to know how her winter greenhouse tomatoes did. I hope all is well, we’ve had enough….

 
 
Comment by Aaron Layman
2010-02-11 12:37:48

Austin & Houston are holding up quite well. Dallas has seen a little more softness, but overall things are still quite good in Texas. One of the things that has helped Houston avoid a market melt-down is the lack of zoning. Although there is plenty of land to build new construction, (Cinco Ranch is one of the top selling master-planned communities in the U.S.) builders have been very pro-active in scaling back their “spec” or inventory homes. We only have a 3 or 4 month’s supply of inventory in my market (South Katy) on average properties (under $300K). Once you get into the upper price ranges ($500K or more) we’re seeing 10-12 month’s inventory. Softness that started in the low end a few years ago ($150K or less) has shifted to the upper end of the market. Expiration of the tax credits should slow things a bit, but we didn’t have the rampant speculation witnessed in some parts of the country. While FL, AZ, NV, CA were seeing 10, 20, 30 percent appreciation per year, we were quite happy with 3-5%. Our local real estate market has behaved quite rationally through this crisis. As a practicing broker, I am quite thankful for that.

It should be noted that my wife and I saw the market shifting in 2008, and we sold our lakefront home to downsize and hedge our bets. ($725K, full-price offer in only 6 days!) We were glad to cut our monthly housing expense by about 35%. We made the right move!

Aaron Layman
Katy TX RE/MAX Broker

Comment by Bronco
2010-02-11 13:07:51

so have we ‘bottomed out’ in Texas?

Comment by Aaron Layman
2010-02-11 13:28:26

Too soon to call it a bottom in my opinion, not with the expiration of tax credits, possible rate increases, and swings with employment numbers. Last few months in Houston have signaled a reversal in job losses. If we can get 6 months of employment growth (not a decrease in rate of losses) then I’ll call it a bottom. We still have higher than average inventory numbers in luxury homes, high-rises and condos and those could take another year to bottom out.

Aaron Layman
Katy TX RE/MAX Broker

(Comments wont nest below this level)
2010-02-11 19:48:54

I’d like to know what everyone does in Dallas and Austin to afford 500k homes. Is the median household income there 200k or something? Seems to me credit is still too cheap for the risk. I’d wait to call that bottom until after the next wave of resets shown in the Zelman chart.

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2010-02-12 10:55:55

Silly!

They don’t pay for the house: they get a toxic FHA loan and flip it! Because housing only goes up!

I’m just teasing, but it is absurd… it seems everyone is just happy paying 5x their income to buy a place because “that’s the way it is.” which doesn’t at all make the house affordable.

 
 
 
Comment by scdave
2010-02-11 14:14:53

Thanks for the information on Texas Aaron…I still would like more information specific to Austin if anybody has it…Thanks…

 
 
 
Comment by Zeus Matuze
2010-02-11 11:12:20

“….Chairman Ben S. Bernanke yesterday charted ways the Fed might withdraw record monetary stimulus pumped into the economy to fight the recession. Among the central bank’s tools are reverse repurchase agreements, in which the Fed sells securities with the intention of repurchasing them at a later date.

The Fed is also considering reverse repurchase agreements with mortgage lenders Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, said the person familiar with the discussions. Freddie Mac spokeswoman Sharon McHale declined to comment. Fannie Mae spokesman Brian Faith also declined to comment.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aSn2_iDKbl
1g&pos=3

Looks like McHale and Faith don’t want to talk about “the intention” of the fed buying back toxic mortgages purchased with “safe haven” money market funds.
I was wondering when the parasites would go after all that cash sitting there earning 0%.

Comment by Watching the Carnage
2010-02-11 20:01:35

Zeus Matuze,

Something is happening and quite frankly I’m not bright enough to figure it out. Apparently, last week the Fed ’s voted and approved a change to MM Funds that will allow them to limit or freeze MM redemption based on some crazy formula.

And now this week we hear that the Fed is looking to hit the MM funds to backstop Fannie and Freddie?

Does anyone know what the implications for guys like me who have been all in MM funds since 2007? I am now beginning to feel the frustration that must drive people to gold. Is there any safe haven? Can they really confiscate my MM cash in this way.

This crap makes me sick - I’ve lived within my means, saved my money…for what???

Please someone make some sense of this MM thing for me - what are the potential downsides to my savings…which are earning nearly zero - will I have to pay someone a protection fee to limit downside loss? Wall Streeters make me ill.

Comment by Zeus Matuze
2010-02-12 01:05:31

a.Is there any safe haven?
b.Can they really confiscate my MM cash in this way?
c.I’ve lived within my means, saved my money…for what???

d.Please someone make some sense of this MM thing for me - what are the potential downsides to my savings…which are earning nearly zero - will I have to pay someone a protection fee to limit downside loss? Wall Streeters make me ill.

a. Currently, no. Gold is inert, emotion-based and past the point of entry.
b. Anyone who thinks these slithering miscreants are above it do so at their own risk.
c. The question of the new millennium. For what?…indeed.
d. The upside to the MM is liquidity. It will take (outside of martial law/executive orders) several days to attach MM funds. My strategy has been to keep my ear to the rail as much as possible for the panic exit and to stay on top of which local banks/credit unions have the highest rating and then to talk personally with the bank’s VP or Prez with the hard questions.

I saw a wallsvegas talking head/passed gasbag on Fox Biz who actually used the term “a good play” regarding a stock purchase…it only underscore the gambling nature of that gaping maw of risk and inside trading.

Want to make a small fortune ‘playing” the wall street game?

Start with a large fortune.

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2010-02-12 10:59:16

Hard to say, though I am convinced that they won’t stop until they’ve taken every cent from everyone. It’s just a matter of time and convincing people that the confiscation of their wealth is a “good thing” and will “turn a profit.”

 
 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2010-02-11 11:21:08

I had some work done on my car recently, and I was sitting in the small waiting area when a realtor came in and set up shop, talking on her Bluetooth like I wasn’t even there. It’s the first time I’ve been privy to those kinds of conversations. First, she talked to the owner, soothingly saying things like “I know it’s your nest egg.” Then she talked to someone else, changing her tone of voice and saying “it’s a hardship situation … she doesn’t have money to bring to the table … comps are around $185 per square foot and she wants this priced at $225.”

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2010-02-11 11:37:05

Hardship is when you lose your job, sickness, or you are a victim of a crime (physical), and by no fault of your own, you fall on hard times. All this pretend stuff makes me batty.

If you have a roof over your head, you’re still doing ok. Rent a damn apt and stop whinning.
Snake Charmer, if you could only have heard the whole story… I bet you would have fallen over laughing.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-02-11 12:09:34

I just love to eavesdrop on people’s conversations.

Comment by snake charmer
2010-02-11 14:48:39

Heh. It was a small area, she made no attempt to speak quietly, and I was there first. I almost think she wanted me to hear her transact business, but if she wanted privacy, I don’t think I was the one who needed to leave. It reminded me of people who talk on their cell phones while in an elevator with other people, which is a pet peeve of mine.

Comment by X-philly
2010-02-11 15:01:34

I used to overhear realtorette conversations at the nail salon but lately they’ve been absent. They must be doing their own toesies now.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by In Montana
2010-02-11 15:22:33

Did she talk LOUD? I hate it when sales people start blaring when they’re on the phone - hey look at me! I’m really great at this!!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-02-11 16:03:32

All the more reason to eavesdrop. Noticeably.

 
Comment by Will
2010-02-12 03:55:25

I find it fun to look the talkers in the eye and respond with smiles and nodds to what they are saying. A young lady in San Diego recently explianed to me where the best places were to get picked up. Now where else can you get that kind of information?

 
 
Comment by Timmy Boy
2010-02-12 00:05:52

Funny… I thought that cell phones didn’t work in elevators…

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Austin Owner
2010-02-11 11:48:30

Austin / Round Rock
I purchased two years ago 3/3 1880sqft house paid $161K.
New state appraisal $160K
Similar home in my area is selling for $179K

Bubble Not!

Comment by Ben Jones
2010-02-11 12:02:29

I used to live in Austin, and there was a bubble in 1998. What were Round Rock prices 10 or 15 years ago? And good luck with the soil problems out there. As has been said before, there was a reason some land was cheap.

Comment by Austin Owner
2010-02-11 13:13:45

I moved here from the Central coast of California. I was looking at renting a three bedroom apartment but it was the same cost as owning including tax.

What soil?

I have 10” of dirt on top of a flat solid limestone surface. Yes the land is worthless for growing crops.

 
 
Comment by Cowtown
2010-02-11 12:21:18

“Listed for” is not the same as “selling for.”

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-02-11 12:50:37

“Listed for” is HBB-speak for “wishing price.”

 
 
 
Comment by rusty
2010-02-11 12:02:22

Lots and lots more foreclosures and short sales showing up on Craig’s List in the Tampa area. About to scour the rental section and see if I can negotiate a lower rent!

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-02-11 12:09:23

Better yet, just get out of there before the shooting starts. And keep your head down!

 
Comment by snake charmer
2010-02-11 13:12:07

Let me know how it works out. I tried to negotiate with potential landlords two years ago, but got nowhere. One especially irritated woman (who according to the Hillsborough County Property Appraiser website had two houses and a condo) even let me know of her plans to put down a new wood floor so that she could justify even higher rent.

Comment by EdSTS2000
2010-02-15 15:08:13

Well, here’s my piece of info: Last October I called in my landlord and told her that if I didn’t get a rent reduction I would have to move out. I got a reduction from $1300 to $1000 for 6 months (on a 4/2/2 house in Wesley Chapel) and after the 6 months the rent would stay at a $1000, but I would put down $300/mo additional toward buying the place (which I’d like to do, it suits my needs well and isn’t oversized or overpriced (the house is about 1800 sq ft, the neighbor’s house is 1900sq ft and just sold for $154k - right in line with the current appraisal from the property appraiser’s office).

I bet that a halfway intelligent landlord would be much more receptive to negotiation these days.

 
 
 
Comment by JohnF
2010-02-11 13:00:41

Foreclosures surged 150 percent in Manatee County last month when compared with a year ago, a probable sign that the new wave of foreclosures predicted by several state economists is under way.

Foreclosure stats are meaningless in this environment. The lenders can’t or won’t sell the properties, even if they do take them back, because they will have to recognize the loss……and thanks to our government, they get to pretend that the “market value” of the loan is whatever the par value is on their books.

Now the lenders know there is a limit of REO that they can hold and pretend with, so on the stuff they haven’t taken back yet, they file a notice of default, then a note of impending sale, then cancel it, then file another notice of sale, then cancel it……over and over again.

Maybe I am wrong, but I just don’t see any groundswell in Washington calling for lenders to stop pretending like this. I realize in theory that it has to stop, but in practice:

- the regulators won’t make them do it
- the FHA keeps making subprime 3.5% down, 50% DTI loans
- we will keep getting HAMP II, III, IV, V, ad infinitum
- the Fed will just keep buying all the MBS created (the 3/31/2010 cutoff is a joke, everyone knows they can’t and won’t stop)

I’m afraid the only thing left is, for the loans held by Fannie and Freddie, they will start forgiving principal and the Fed will just create the money out of thin air. All the other lenders will get to put their trash in Fannie/Freddie or in the Fed directly.

Which is bad news for us savers/potential buyers, since the flood of inventory we were hoping for just isn’t going to materialize……ever. I think the game is rigged. Maybe it always was and now they are just being a little more blatant about it.

Comment by Ben Jones
2010-02-11 13:07:16

I work in the foreclosure biz, and although some will say this and that, houses have never been foreclosed faster in history. They do sell; I see it all the time. In fact, these are the majority of sales in many markets.

Also, as for the stats; a year ago was the GSE moratorium.

Maybe you think a few corporations can fix the biggest market in the world? If so, buy now or be priced out forever.

Comment by JohnF
2010-02-11 14:05:10

I hear what you are saying Ben, as far as the number of foreclosures to date. I would argue as to speed - at least in the last 12 months here in Southern California.

In the old days (if there ever was such a time), the vast majority of borrowers that stopped paying were foreclosed on rapidly and the home was sold within 6-9 months. I would say that today the exact opposite is true: the vast majority of borrowers that have stopped paying are still in their homes, or they have left and the home is in a strange limbo where the “owner” left but the lender hasn’t officially taken it into REO. I have heard arguments about staffing, but I really don’t believe that if the lenders only had a few thousand more REO employees, that the homes that should be foreclosed, would be foreclosed. I think there are huge incentives for lenders to minimize foreclosures (true, actual, foreclosures that really take back the home and sell it)…….and I think these “incentives” will continue for years.

While I don’t think “…a few corporations can fix the biggest market in the world…” I wouldn’t put it past our government. Especially since they have the ability (and seem to have the inclination) to create “money”, or change laws, or create “save the homeowners” programs, or flaunt bankruptcy laws, etc.

You and I know what the “truth” is, and I think our government knows it too. And I really do believe that our government doesn’t have the stomach to either tell the truth or let the free market work to find the “truth”. I suppose I have gotten to the point that I don’t think they (the Feds) will ever stop the manipulation - because they are in too deep now, and they know it.

The problem that I have, as a renter, is that the majority of the populace owns (even after all the foreclosures to date). In my mind that is a built-in bias towards government “solutions” (however stupid) that will favor those that already own.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-02-11 17:02:08

‘I would say that today the exact opposite is true: the vast majority of borrowers that have stopped paying are still in their homes, or they have left and the home is in a strange limbo where the “owner” left but the lender hasn’t officially taken it into REO.’

Based on the logic of your two posts above, it sounds to me like your course of action is quite obvious:

1) Buy the swankiest house you can manage to get into, based on your financial situation and all lending and purchase options.

2) Immediately stop making payments, on the theory that so many other borrowers have stopped making payment that you will be able to live rent-free indefinitely with little risk of ever facing a foreclosure.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2010-02-11 14:53:52

Ben,
I am in FL and it is different here. I even dabbled in PP like you do last spring. The foreclosures just aren’t getting sold or even listed. The same houses are sitting empty, deteriorating for literally years now. Mostly what has been selling is the new-construction low-low end crap being pushed by the builder with the $8k tax credit being manipulated into the 3% down payment -sometimes with cash back at the close. The houses are complete crap but they are new and the initial payments are comparable to rent. NOTHIING else is moving where I am and now even those tax-credit new houses are really slowing down. The fan is starting to turn brown as the sh!t makes contact.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-02-11 16:13:10

“The same houses are sitting empty, deteriorating for literally years now.”

I doubt it is much different in CA…

we do have some green shoots of new construction this winter which promise to soon add to the vacant inventory pyre.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-02-11 17:38:54

Yawn…

Don’t these writers ever catch on? “A closely watched pot never boils over.”

February 11, 2010 12:21 PM
The Coming Foreclosure and Commercial Real Estate Storms

Posted by Jill Schlesinger

This post by Jill Schlesinger originally appeared on CBS’ MoneyWatch dot com.

When you read that foreclosure filings fell 10% in January from December, don’t get too excited. According to Realty Trac, foreclosures are 15% higher than they were a year ago and there’s likely to be an increase in foreclosure activity in the next few months, as the government’s crappy mortgage modification program continues to fail.

(AP Photo/David J. Phillip)

James J. Saccacio, CEO of RealtyTrac noted that “if history repeats itself we will see a surge in the numbers over the next few months as lenders foreclose on delinquent loans where neither the existing loan modification programs or the new short sale and deed-in-lieu of foreclosure alternatives works.” In other words, another storm is a-brewing in the housing market.

The continued reluctance of banks to tackle the foreclosure problem is astounding. There’s near-universal agreement that principal reduction is the key, but we are left with lame programs, like this one announced yesterday by CitiMortgage. The so-called “strategic non-foreclosure” continues the “extend and pretend” policy that bank lenders have pursued over the past year.

From the banks’ point of view, the longer they keep you on the hook, the better it is for them. Avoiding the mess of foreclosure allows them to keep the fictitious valuations on their books and in this new Citi program, ensures that some of the costs of carrying the dud loan get transferred to the borrower, who in all likelihood, will end up defaulting. Some experts believe that a new round of foreclosures could trigger a double-dip in housing prices.

As if the foreclosure mess weren’t enough to keep you up at night, today we’re also digesting a new report from the Congressional Oversight Panel (that’s Elizabeth Warren & Co, the TARP watchdogs) about the looming storm in the commercial real estate market. The report predicts a wave of losses, totaling $200-$300 billion, from commercial real estate loans could “trigger economic damage that could touch the lives of nearly every American.”

 
 
Comment by Madmax
2010-02-11 13:03:21

They finally pulled the 4 cranes down on the Margaritaville casino site here in Biloxi,Ms. Apparently they were 30K a day and have been idle for 8 months. The arriving in 2010 banners faded,and wind-torn. The slab were that casino sits will stay there for some time I suspect. Casinos here are dead, layoffs, no free buffets, no specials…Yet they built thousands of “employee” apt. complexes that have a few cars in front with reduce rent, get a free flat screen signs…built with Go-zone Katrina Fed. money.
More for-sale signs pop up every week on all the streets….watching the show,and waiting.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-02-11 13:30:56

Oh, here I go again. I’m just full of stories today…

Back in July 2007, I was a post-Katrina reconstruction volunteer in coastal Mississippi. And, one fine evening, my glasses broke. Without my glasses, I’m useless, people.

So, off to Pascagoula we went. To Wal-Mart. Which had an optician. Who fixed my glasses. For free. And made me useful again.

While I was waiting for the optician to finish her work, I got to talking with another customer. She said that the casino people were trying to push the Katrina-busted homeowners out of Biloxi so they could take over the properties and build more casinos. After all, casinos were so-o-o-o lucrative.

So much for that idea.

 
Comment by Left LA
2010-02-11 14:29:16

Sorry, cannot resist:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/222628/?tag=clerk

Hope this makes it through the filter. It seems even Jimmy Buffet had a role in all this mess!

 
Comment by pressboardbox
2010-02-11 14:55:04

Sounds Awesome!

 
Comment by dixiegrrrrl
2010-02-11 17:34:35

I am so happy to hear what you said about the casinos dying at Biloxi.
After Katrina, we watched as people there were set upon by the disaster Capitalists who wanted that land near the water.
I remember Biloxi before the casinos, cannot bear to go back and see what it has become.
Thanks for a report on the arrival of the Kharma Train.

 
Comment by mikey
2010-02-11 18:15:40

The casino’s drank their own Kool Aid and gambled.
:)

 
 
Comment by Rancher
2010-02-11 14:03:42

You won’t believe the sweetheart deal that the Indymac boys were given by the FDIC.

http://www dot thinkbigworksmall dot com/mypage/player/tbws/23088/964766

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-02-11 16:11:15

“‘If I was to be blunt, I would say that the only thing it has done for Lehigh Acres is make the people of Lehigh Acres realize that they need to stand up and do things for themselves if they want to see anything be done,’ he said.”

The Lord does help best those who help themselves.

 
Comment by Muggy
2010-02-11 17:19:52

Wow, three new trolls. Looks like another “keep renting” signal.

 
Comment by fries with that?
2010-02-11 18:38:04

I want to comment about the commercial side of Dallas/Fort Worth area real estate. There is hardly a shopping center, office complex, or warehouse/logistics building that doesn’t have at least one “For Lease” sign out front.

It’s as if the economy never really left the 20th Century. A few years of wild speculation created all this space, but there were never enough real businesses to fill it up.

 
Name (required)
E-mail (required - never shown publicly)
URI
Your Comment (smaller size | larger size)
You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

Trackback responses to this post