March 5, 2010

From Gangbusters To Zero

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “Mr. Cai, a Shanghainese millionaire, owns three homes in Shanghai. Last year, Cai invested in a third home for $2,941 per square meter in the city’s central Xuhui district, or more than triple what he paid a decade ago. ‘Every year there are more and more wealthy Chinese. What are they going to do with all their cash?’ said Cai. ‘You can only buy property or start a company. Property is the safest way to go. Assuming that demand doesn’t change, there will be a shortage of supply in the private sector, resulting in an even sharper rise in home prices.’”

“Mr. Cai is thinking about moving into his new house and renting out his condo, which is now worth four times what he paid for it 10 years ago. But according to his calculations, the return on his investment would be appallingly low. He would have to collect rent for a half century to match what he could sell the apartment for today. Concerns about a property bubble, however, won’t push him to sell.”

“‘I don’t know what it’s going to be like in three to five years, but in 10, 20 years, I don’t think I’m going to lose,’ said Cai. ‘No way.’”

“While Oahu homeowners might not see much price gain over the next few years, the market is on its way up and the median single-family home could be worth more than $1 million by the dawn of the next decade, said renowned Honolulu economist Paul Brewbaker. ‘I think things are off and running again,’ Brewbaker said. ‘We are certainly at the point that the fear people had about prices falling a lot are pretty much over. There’s not going to be a double dip.’”

“‘The tragedy here is that a lot of people are waiting (to get into the housing market),’ Brewbaker said. ‘If they don’t act by April, they’ll miss the tax credits. If they wait beyond what the Fed is calling an extended period, they’ll be facing higher interest rates.’”

“Buoyed by a high-flying loonie and the quest to nest in summery climes, the flock of snowbirds chasing the sun just keeps on growing. ‘Florida residential property is at an all-time low as far as prices go, approximately 50% to 60% lower than they were two years ago,’ says Florida HomeFinders of Canada VP Brian Ellis,It is estimated that prices will need to rise dramatically to make it worthwhile to build new product. The prices that properties are being sold for today are far below replacement value, Mr. Ellis says.”

“‘What’s also interesting is the diversity of the buyers – their ages range from the late 20s to 70s, and they come from all ethnic backgrounds. Most want to buy rentals and generate an income, while looking forward to future appreciation,’ he said. ‘Luxury suites (with ocean views) are available at about half what they would cost in Toronto. Bagging a beachfront address has never been more affordable.’”

“A big green RV, called Your Money Bus, parked in downtown Fort Myers on Thursday and local planners took questions from people trying to get their finances in shape. Fort Myers resident Daniel Esteban came for advice because he is worried about losing his home. ‘The economy is so low and I am having problems with my mortgage company,’ said Esteban, an out-of-work construction worker. ‘I don’t want to go to foreclosure or bankruptcy.’”

“The foreclosure auction was still an hour away…inside the 1,900-square-foot house they built in 1968 for $110,000, and recently assessed by the town at $915,700, G. Stewart Baird Jr., 80, and his wife, Martha, 77, were in despair. Their home and the lovely spot where it sits - 3.9 acres of woods overlooking the Charles River in one of Boston’s nicest bedroom communities - was scheduled to be sold at auction that afternoon.”

“‘I guess we were just hoping things would turn around,’ said Martha Baird. Stewart Baird said they heavily mortgaged their home to pay for living expenses and to support their business in the hopes it would meet what now seem like overly optimistic revenue projections.”

“‘We thought we could do it,’ he said.”

“With less than six weeks before taxes are due, an estimated 16,000 former homeowners statewide will owe $15 million in extra income taxes this year and $29 million through 2012. The tax applies to what is called the ‘cancellation of debt’ that occurs when property owners lose their homes through foreclosure or arrange a short-sale. For the Roths, who continue to own a previous home and have other assets, their nearly $200,000 in losses does not cancel out their other holdings. The couple said they normally operate conservatively and only bought the home, which they lived in while their son continued to live in their first house, so they could sell it at a profit and pad their retirement accounts.”

“‘If we have to pay it, we’ll pay it,’ Phyllis Roth said of the taxes. ‘It’s less money to retire on, but it’s not the end of the world.’”

“When Jonathan Monschke discovered Yachats six years ago, he saw room for improvement, and he thought he might be the one to render it. He bought a home for his young family and land to subdivide for a housing development; he bought the town plaza and poured a small fortune into a riverside restaurant. And then he watched it slip through his fingers until all was lost.”

“Today, to drive through town is to pass a half-dozen grim reminders of projects stalled, abandoned or in foreclosure. Monschke lost everything, including his home, and now awaits word on the Yachats River House, which has been in foreclosure for one year. ‘We were caught off guard,’ Monschke says. “We could have handled the economy if we hadn’t had the cost overruns, and we could have handled the cost overruns if the economy hadn’t tanked, but we couldn’t handle both.’”

“‘Yachats went from gangbusters to zero. From a steady stream of sales, one every month or two, to not selling anything for three years. That’s what killed us,’ he said.”

“Tom Herskovits rode a wave of rising real estate prices into Cincinnati. Herskovits was a Chicago investor who came here to pursue condo conversions. Apartment prices were rising here, but still seemed cheap compared to Chicago. Herskovits planned to sell out units within three years and was ahead of schedule when the local condo market evaporated in 2008. Bank of America foreclosed on his Covington property last fall. He’s now negotiating a global settlement involving three banks and both properties and will likely move to Florida when the deal is done.”

“‘The basic assumptions we made about pricing still hold,’ he said. ‘People just stopped buying.’”

“‘There are so many people who’ve been hanging on and feeding properties,’ said Bill Blackham, chief financial officer for Al Neyer Inc. ‘But there’s only so long you can justify doing that. There’s probably more defaults coming.’”

“One of the first signs that Washtenaw County’s housing boom was decelerating came about five years ago when the national building companies started to sell off unsold lots. Pulte started to pull out of Ypsilanti Township, where it had loaded up on lots and options to acquire still more. Centex slowed there, too. Both slowed their pace near Chelsea, and Toll Brothers dropped some options near Saline.”

“It was hard to picture the county’s phenomenal growth slowing. But by the end of 2006, new single-family construction had fallen to 513 units, a 70 percent drop from 2004. And the fall-off continues. ‘Nobody’s picking up land here,’ said Jim Porth, a commercial broker at Thomas Duke Co. of Farmington Hills. That includes the big companies: ‘I haven’t seen any sign that they’ll come back to town.’”

“Asset quality has been hurt by increased troubled loans and repossessed real estate, which three out of four Omaha banks reported at the end of 2009. Of the 26 banks in the study, 20 had more loans, 21 had more deposits and 19 had higher capital levels at the end of 2009 than a year earlier. Nineteen had higher net incomes in 2009 than in 2008. But 20 of the banks also had more troubled assets.”

“TierOne is working to increase its capital under an order from the Office of Thrift Supervision. The bank plans to sell 32 of its offices, including nine in Omaha, one in Papillion and three in Council Bluffs, a step that would reduce its size and boost its capital, said Michael Falbo, who was named chairman and CEO of TierOne in January.”

“He said the 2009 losses came from writing down the value of troubled real estate loans in Florida, Arizona, Nevada and South Carolina, and the process of getting rid of the problem loans continues. ‘I think we’re close to through,’ Falbo said, but it’s difficult to determine the value of property in those markets. ‘Nobody’s willing to take a chance on what the value may be.’”

“Investors, hard-money lenders and mortgage brokers attended a conference last week at the Monte Carlo to discuss the industry and opportunities they are expecting in 2010. Leonard Rosen, who hosted the seminar, said the market is imploding with $300 billion of $1.8 trillion in commercial mortgages in arrears in metropolitan areas. Las Vegas has the highest percentage of troubled commercial real estate in the country.”

“‘There is going to be a huge commercial crash, and that’s happening now,’ said Rosen.”

“Lenders are no longer loaning 65 percent of the value of the property. That is down to 50 percent, he said.”

“Looking for value in the Massachusetts housing market? Bargain hunting for homes in the Bay State has never been easy. Even though home prices fell about 20 percent from the market peak in 2005 to the bottom last year, that’s still far less than what many other regions experienced. The median prices for a single-family home in Massachusetts was $285,000 in January, and the state continues to have some of the highest prices in the country.”

“In Southborough, the median price has dropped 31 percent to $390,000 from $565,500. But Barbara Heisler of Heisler and Mattson Properties in Southborough said the scale of that decline was exaggerated because so many lower-cost homes made up the recent sales data. She said a truer picture of home prices is probably around 20 down.”

“‘Hopefully we are at the bottom and we are probably not going to shoot up like crazy,’ Heisler said. ‘If we can hold the bottom it will be nice for everybody.’”

“When does compassion for the downtrodden become indulgence for the deadbeat? The Tampa Bay housing boom slogan, ‘No Credit, No Problem,’ has been replaced by the housing crash credo ‘No Payment, No Problem.’”

“But if the government’s helping hand is stabilizing the Tampa Bay housing market as a whole, the statistics don’t reflect it. The problem isn’t just fresh mortgage defaults, but the system’s inability to process and purge older foreclosure cases from as long ago as 2007. As hard as it is to say, hundreds, if not thousands, of homeowners have stayed in their houses and condos long past the expiration date, milking the public’s trusts.”

“In one notorious case, a Tampa Bay homeowner has clung to his upscale home after refusing to pay his $3,000 monthly mortgage for 2 1/2 years. That’s $90,000 in unpaid interest, principal and escrow.”

“Some argue the market is too weak to handle a flood of repossessed homes. That’s no longer entirely true. Home sales rose across Tampa Bay in 2009. Economists and demographers predict population growth will resume in dribbles this year. What’s more, foreclosure-prevention programs have been failure prone. Some studies show more than half of home­owners initially helped re-defaulted within a year.”

“Compassion is always easier on someone else’s dime. Do-gooderism has its place, but it can quickly become do-nothingism.”

“The commercial real estate industry in Middle Georgia took a powerful hit in 2009, and some say it will take years to see a significant improvement. Various pieces of property slated for big shopping complexes a couple of years ago, are overgrown with weeds and bushes. Some strip shopping centers that were built during that time are still vacant. Other planned commercial and office developments have never gotten beyond the drawing board.”

“‘There are niches and there may be pockets of places where people did fine, but overall as a general rule you will find that most commercial brokers will tell you that ’09 was a pretty poor year,’ said Guy Eberhardt, an associate broker who works with clients throughout Middle Georgia. ‘It’s a government sponsored recession and nobody knows what (the federal government) is going to do. … Until consumer confidence comes back, and until retail sales come back, development is not going to come back.’”

“There are no sales of commercial properties because there are no buyers, Eberhardt said. ‘If (the government) would get out of the way and let the market take care of itself, it would,’ Eberhardt said. ‘You have your foot in this murky water and you’re trying to find the bottom. You are scared to step out because it may be 6 feet deep and it may be 16 feet deep. That’s the uncertainty just killing the market because nobody knows where the bottom is.’”




RSS feed | Trackback URI

85 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2010-03-05 08:58:08

Since when has kicking the can down the road ever worked? DC has taken the easy way out for years now, and making things worse. Rewarding bad behavior, delaying the inevitable and pretending the housing bubble never happened, all the while pandering to the media and the public that they are “doing something” about the “crisis.”

One more thing, it is a bit spooky to see housing bubbles raging in Canada, Australia and Asia. And if all bubbles collapse, what will that mean in the months and years ahead? IMO, what we are witnessing is complacency. Hold onto your hats…

Comment by mikey
2010-03-05 09:32:24

This housing bust would have never happened if someone in America hadn’t lost Faith in Stupidity.

Darned non-believers !

:)

Comment by WHYoung
2010-03-05 12:35:05

And if we don’t believe Tinkerbell is in danger too.

 
Comment by Jerry
2010-03-05 14:26:25

And the Greed of Wall St. and bankers for the “fast easy bucks”!

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2010-03-05 09:33:51

“In one notorious case, a Tampa Bay homeowner has clung to his upscale home after refusing to pay his $3,000 monthly mortgage for 2 1/2 years. That’s $90,000 in unpaid interest, principal and escrow.”

Ben, this type of story leads me to believe we’re headed for a long, Japanese-style grind. All of TPTBs actions lead me to that conclusion as well. This is one factor that has me off the fence looking. What do you think?

Comment by Ben Jones
2010-03-05 09:51:23

Well, we could keep going to jobs that don’t exist anymore, like some in Japan did, but I’m not sure that twill help.

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2010-03-05 09:35:51

“And if all bubbles collapse, what will that mean in the months and years ahead?”

Poof!

Comment by snake charmer
2010-03-05 12:20:42

That’s hilarious about the Canadian realty firm VP trying to scare up some Canadians to buy down here. Half of what it would cost for a similar unit in Toronto! You don’t say!

 
 
Comment by scdave
2010-03-05 09:51:30

So what is it that Australia, Asia & Canada are doing that is supporting such high residential prices in the face of carnage that has happened in the US and other countries ??

Is limited supply and cost of entry for new development a factor ??

Just wondering…Particularly with Canada since they are neighbor…

Comment by Ben Jones
2010-03-05 09:56:45

I don’t think there is any particular action involved. These manias don’t have scripts to be followed. IMO, it is a combination of things including circumstance and timing. What’s alarming is how it is being watched like some innocent phenomenon, even as markets and economies around the world are getting their asses kicked because of housing bubbles!

Comment by WT Economist
2010-03-05 10:18:44

Excess liquidity. Perhaps we don’t have inflation here because it is sloshing elsewhere, where there is (housing) inflation.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2010-03-05 11:28:20

TBTF is borrowing from the Feds at almost 0%, and lending to the Treasury at a low rate, but the amt of $ is huge. Then when the T-Bill,T-Note,T-Bond matures and the bank makes the int., and pays back the Feds, doesn’t that keep the inflationary pressues of digital $ at bay (a inner cycle of lending and pay backs), thus keeping inflation down for now? Am I getting this right?

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2010-03-05 11:32:30

Isn’t the cycle of my post above the reason why the banks aren’t anxious to lend j6p money? They can make piles from the inner circle game?

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2010-03-05 19:26:31

I saw on the TV (from whom I forget ) that the demand for start up small business money isn’t that high
either in US . How many people are going to open up a new business in the middle of a recession with Wal Mart to compete against and all the other monopolies ? Also, when everybody wants out ,nobody wants in .
As far as bubbles ,you would think that Countries looking at the
US RE meltdown would take heed ,but it’s always ‘It’s different here .”
And yes awaiting wipeout ,I think the Money Changers are making enough money right now from the inner circle games .

 
 
Comment by mikey
2010-03-05 12:18:54

I thought that a large number of Canadian snowbirds got burnt down in Florida with houses and condos in the early 80’s.

Maybe their memory is as bad as mine. Must be the cold.

;)

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by Jeffers
2010-03-05 12:39:31

The sustained Canadian bubble is very definitely the product of specific policies. In December 08 literally everyone believed the entire housing sector would collapse here and the central bank responded last year by slashing interest rates to emergency levels knowing full well that this would allow thousands of first time homebuyers to qualify for CMHC-insured debt slavery. Amazingly, the sheep lined up to get sheared in record numbers. Even more amazing is how many economists believe it is sustainable. The hangover up here is going to be absolutely spectacular.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Ben Jones
2010-03-05 14:03:02

Jeffers,

I disagree. The same thing happened in the US and prices are still falling in most places. History will have to sort out why the UK, Australia and Canada bounced. But I don’t think it’s that remarkable when looking at the mania as one phenomenon. Bubbles are built on psychology, and Canadians haven’t had that torn down yet. That said, IMO the bust will be worse the longer a bubble is prolonged. There’s no question that the governments and central banks are contributing. But why the individuals continue to believe trees grow to the sky cannot be attributed to this alone.

There are US markets that have seen something similar; Massachusetts for example.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-03-05 15:51:16

“The hangover up here is going to be absolutely spectacular.”

There are two kind of people in the subpopulation of humans who care about the aftermath of collapsed housing bubbles:

- Those who believe hair-of-the-dog stimulus measures will achieve its goals of reflating the bubble and getting the housing mania party started up again.

- Those who believe hair-of-the-dog stimulus will delay the housing market from bottoming out, but will not ultimately succeed in preventing it from doing so.

Guess to which group I belong?

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-03-05 16:24:51

Those who believe hair-of-the-dog stimulus will delay the housing market from bottoming out, but will not ultimately succeed in preventing it from doing so.

Ummmmmm…. Lemme guess. Would it be…

…the one above? Y,know, in the italics?

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2010-03-05 19:32:17

I don’t know ,are the loans recourse loans in Canada ? What are the average incomes ? Someone told me in Canada they don’t even get the interest rate tax write off on a owner occupied mortgage .

 
Comment by Dave of the North
2010-03-06 05:18:50

I don’t think they are recourse in Canada, but don’t quote me on it. We do not have the mortgage interest deductions. We don’t pay capital gains tax (or sales tax) on the sale of an owner occupied home. There is sales tax on new homes, but there is a gov’t rebate for that.

Re the story about the Bairds in Boston - the comments on the story aren’t real sympathetic. It is mind boggling that they borrowed $ 1.2 m, at their age, on their house to support their business …

 
Comment by Lumpen
2010-03-06 12:33:15

They’re recourse in every province but Alberta (major cities there are Calgary & Edmonton). The question I’ve often wondered is exactly what the current procedure is when a homeowner defaults, either through inability to bring cash to closing or simply stops paying. Because as the US has clearly seen, nothing requires a bank or other authority figure to foreclose in a timely manner.

In Canada, the riskiest mortgages have some form of mortgage insurance attached to them (less than 20% or 25% down - can’t remember which offhand). Here is where the real moral hazard lies - the dominant insurer is CMHC, a federal crown corporation. So effectively the feds are on the hook for the deficiencies.

I don’t know who is the evicting party in this instance. Does the bank simply turn over the mortgage to CMHC and let them foreclose, or does the bank need to do the foreclosing and then turn over the deed to CMHC. How many governments want to evict voters?

People often say that mortgage interest isn’t tax deductible in Canada, and that’s generally true for first time purchasers. But for people who are further along in the cycle of life, affairs can be structured to make mortgage interest tax deductible. I don’t know of any stats, but I suspect this is the case for the majority of $1mm + homes in Toronto / Vancouver.

 
 
 
Comment by scdave
2010-03-05 10:24:15

It will be interesting to see what happens if & when interest rates go significantly higher…

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-03-05 11:12:51

“Since when has kicking the can down the road ever worked?”

It depends on the objective. Suppose you are going to only be in office for four years. Would taking measures to kick the can down the road for five years ‘work’ then?

 
Comment by ProperBostonian
2010-03-05 11:38:45

With a typical 1,000-square-foot condo in Beijing now costing about 80 times the average annual income (in Beijing), I can’t imagine the fallout when this 80-lb gorilla bursts. Aside from strawberry pickers, wasn’t the highest average in LA where it got to 10X income?

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-03-05 14:10:27

Krakatoa.

Comment by ProperBostonian
2010-03-05 15:26:33

I never heard of Krakatoa until now, but I would say it’s a good comparison. Thanks Edgewater:

“When Krakatoa exploded in 1883, it was among the most violent volcanic events in modern and recorded history. With a Volcanic Explosivity Index of 6, the eruption was equivalent to 200 megatons of TNT—about 13,000 times the nuclear yield of the Little Boy bomb that devastated Hiroshima.”

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Lionel
2010-03-06 07:15:43

I believe Krakatoa caused winter-like conditions in Boston that year during the summer, snow in June, if I recall right. Maybe this one bursting will cause a similar winter, only economic this time.

 
Comment by B. Durbin
2010-03-07 18:39:44

A good book on Krakatoa is Simon Winchester’s The Day the World Exploded, though I will say that it deals mostly with the fallout and side effects (political and technological) than the geological event itself.

 
 
 
Comment by rms
2010-03-05 19:54:30

“…I can’t imagine the fallout when this 80-lb gorilla bursts.”

The Chinese can harvest your organs for cash; organs are king!

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-03-05 09:05:30

“‘The tragedy here is that a lot of people are waiting (to get into the housing market),’ Brewbaker said. ‘If they don’t act by April, they’ll miss the tax credits”.

Yea, that’s the “tragedy”!

“There’s not going to be a double dip.’”

Well there you have it! From an expert no less.

Comment by Michael Fink
2010-03-05 09:58:43

And when a 8,000 dollar gimmie for buying a house goes away… House prices are going to go UP in reaction?

Is this guy a moron?

 
Comment by ProperBostonian
2010-03-05 11:44:29

“‘The tragedy here is that a lot of people are waiting (to get into the housing market),’ Brewbaker said. ‘If they don’t act by April, they’ll miss the tax credits”.

The tragedy here is that this guy is considered a “renowned Honolulu economist.”

Comment by Dman
2010-03-05 11:55:20

It would be interesting to know if this “renowned Honolulu economist” works for the local realtor association.

Comment by oliverks
2010-03-05 21:54:04

Dec 4, 2009 Paul Brewbaker, former Bank of Hawaii chief economist, has called a bottom.

Oct 29, 2009 Economist Paul Brewbaker has joined other experts in forecasting that the state won’t see meaningful recovery from the recession for more than a year.

But Brewbaker, a consultant for the Bank of Hawaii, believes there will be higher unemployment and a greater decline in personal income than cited in other economic forecasts.

March 4th, 2010 A local economist, Paul Brewbaker, is predicting a median price of $1000000 for homes on Oahu and in Honolulu by 2020

March 5th 2010 A local poster to HBB decides Mr. Brewbaker might be a wind bag with an agenda to push.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by denquiry
2010-03-06 03:42:17

How can this d*ck call a bottom when he never called a beginning?

 
 
 
 
Comment by octal77
2010-03-05 12:45:09


“‘The tragedy here …..they’ll be facing higher interest rates.’”

Prices will go up as interest rates go up??? Huh?

This guy is an ‘reknown’ economist?

What exactly is the color of the sky in his world?

“Common sense isn’t nearly as common as it used to be.” - Author Unknown

 
Comment by SMF
2010-03-05 12:52:48

The tragedy is that all the actual examples of what happens during and after a bubble are completely forgotten.

All bubbles act the same, all bubbles end the same.

What is even worse is that the world has RECENTLY seen two huge bubbles, with Japan and the dot.com. Yet they expect the housing bubble to behave completely different.

I recall the beanie babies craze, too. I even had friends justify the prices on the scarcity of supply!!

 
Comment by dareal
2010-03-05 14:47:58

He has even worse quotes out in the public domain, such as Hawaii needs to not bother with diversifying away from tourism and just accept that there will be a few rich and a lot of poor. I believe that was from an interview in Hawaii Business magazine. Without exception, he comes off as a really bitter, elitist ahole in every interview.

Of course, he is into real estate, so he’s talking his book. But Hawaii is resuming the downward trend of the nation as a whole, and the carnage will be spectacular. Juxtapose his claims against the fact that a guy just bought 300+ acres on the windward side of Oahu for 1 million at a property auction.

Comment by ProperBostonian
2010-03-05 15:37:51

Wow, what a jerk. In a state that has a population of 1 million and 7 million tourists every year, it’s a no-brainer they have to diversify. All the resources tend to go to that one industry, which takes up a lot of land for resorts, hotels, etc. which the residents have to compete with. On top of that, the people working in those industries don’t make a middle-class wage.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-03-05 09:25:15

“‘There are niches and there may be pockets of places where people did fine, but overall as a general rule you will find that most commercial brokers will tell you that ’09 was a pretty poor year,’ said Guy Eberhardt, an associate broker who works with clients throughout Middle Georgia.

‘It’s a government sponsored recession and nobody knows what (the federal government) is going to do. … Until consumer confidence comes back, and until retail sales come back, development is not going to come back.’”

“There are no sales of commercial properties because there are no buyers, Eberhardt said. ‘If (the government) would get out of the way and let the market take care of itself, it would,’ Eberhardt said.

Comment by ACH
2010-03-05 09:57:37

‘You have your foot in this murky water and you’re trying to find the bottom. You are scared to step out because it may be 6 feet deep and it may be 16 feet deep. That’s the uncertainty just killing the market because nobody knows where the bottom is.’”

Weally? Do tell.
Wash it all out. We will get through this if we realize that the economy is changing - again. Clean it out. Find the bottom.

That being said, we need to keep people fed, housed, the kids in school, and healthy. I really don’t want families in the street, kids out of school, people dying from easily cured maladies. This will still hurt a lot of people who had nothing to do with the mess, and this fact cannot be changed. Still, they should not be destroyed no matter their complicit actor or innocent bystander.

I’m positive we are covering up and papering over the mess. We are trying to let time heal it. Fine. This only works if the infection is still not raging.

Roidy

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2010-03-05 19:39:21

Don’t know that the market is going to bring back jobs by itself .

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-03-05 09:49:38

The part about the Washtenaw County housing market really conked me over the head. That’s where the main campus of the University of Michigan is.

And, if memory serves correctly, there isn’t much of an economy in WaCo outside of the U-M and Ann Arbor. Neither of which have that many high-paying jobs.

So, unless you’re independently wealthy, I don’t see where you’re going to have the money to buy out in Chelsea. BTW, I do have a Chelsea friend who fits that description. But his house is definitely not of the trophy home variety. Nor is he driving a flashy car.

 
Comment by frank
2010-03-05 11:07:16

To all:
Barney Frank just pulled a wabbit out of a hat.
More to follow.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-03-05 12:31:54

These guys’ effort to turn back the clock on TBTF will fall flat on its face. Everyone and his dog know that Megabank, Inc and its minions are TBTF, and enjoy an implicit federal guarantee from the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve Bank.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-03-05 11:14:35

“‘There is going to be a huge commercial crash, and that’s happening now,’ said Rosen.”

I thunk Eddie told us the LV economy was back already?

Comment by ProperBostonian
2010-03-05 11:46:27

And he sees “nothing but prosperity” in Georgia. But it’s probably not fair to pick on him when he can’t defend himself.

Comment by ProperBostonian
2010-03-05 11:47:38

I meant I shouldn’t pick on Eddie, not you PB.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-03-05 12:30:03

What is stopping Eddie from defending himself? If he stops posting, then all the trail of BS he deposited here seems like fair game for a proper burial.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by ProperBostonian
2010-03-05 13:09:27

Oh, I thought he had been blackballed and couldn’t post. In that case, bombs away!

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2010-03-05 13:53:54

Internet connections are poor in cardboard boxes

 
Comment by ACH
2010-03-05 14:00:03

“Internet connections are poor in cardboard boxes”

I can’t knock cardboard boxes. I’m prolly gonna live in one before it’s all over.

Roidy

 
Comment by mikey
2010-03-05 18:04:05

Well I hope that Eddie has a nice dry bridge over his carboard box and some kind person drops him some stale cookies once in a while.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Steve W
2010-03-05 11:48:12

In the LV Sun yesterday I saw that the 90 day mortgage delinquency was 21%. It was 12.94% last January…

It’s looking a bit ugly out in Sin City.

 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2010-03-05 11:20:31

“He’s now negotiating a global settlement involving three banks and both properties and will likely move to Florida when the deal is done.”
______________________________

Jesus, why didn’t he just admit on the spot that he had committed a crime. Maybe he could buy in Bilzerian’s neighborhood, or snap up O.J. Simpson’s house. Note to clueless SEC employees reading this: investigate Tom Herskovits.

Comment by mikey
2010-03-05 15:23:10

“In the LV Sun yesterday I saw that the 90 day mortgage delinquency was 21%. It was 12.94% last January…

It’s looking a bit ugly out in Sin City.”

That’s what they get for chasing out the last showgal in her undies and feathers and replacing her with a bunch of stupid HAL 9000 slot machines.

:)

 
 
Comment by groundhogdaze
2010-03-05 11:21:50

‘We are certainly at the point that the fear people had about prices falling a lot are pretty much over. There’s not going to be a double dip.’” said renowned Honolulu economist Paul Brewbaker.
I say “Move over David Lereah and Lawrence Yun, we have an economist who wants to put you to shame by proving he can out-Pollyanna the both of you”.

Comment by snake charmer
2010-03-05 12:11:27

According to the Google, he is the former Chief Economist for the Bank of Hawaii who is now a principal in his own consulting firm. He is also a much sought-after speaker, kind of like the Hawaiian equivalent to Hank Fishkind.

 
Comment by bink
2010-03-05 15:31:36

I’m in Honolulu now. We’ve been driving around various neighborhoods all over the island for the last week or so. Some streets have literally every third house for sale, while other more established hoods have around 1 in every 40 for sale.

I can’t help but think they won’t recover until the bubble neighborhoods show reasonable for sale numbers again.

 
 
Comment by NoVa Sideliner
2010-03-05 12:22:47

‘Florida residential property is at an all-time low as far as prices go, approximately 50% to 60% lower than they were two years ago,’

An “all time low”? Maybe if you were born 8 years ago.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-03-05 12:28:26

“‘Yachats went from gangbusters to zero. From a steady stream of sales, one every month or two, to not selling anything for three years. That’s what killed us,’ he said.”

Sounds like he never bothered trying to lower the asking prices to current market value.

Comment by SMF
2010-03-05 12:55:46

Have you seen where this town is located? Small towns in the middle of nowhere are never good investments, especially in unheard of towns.

 
Comment by jingle male
2010-03-05 13:38:56

There are 750 people in this community along the central Oregon coast, miles from anywhere. Strong population growth is considered 1 or 2% increase per year. So if the town grew by 10-15 people a year, that would be solid growth. Hardly any need for a big housing development.

Comment by pismoclam
2010-03-06 18:22:37

Everytime someone is born, someone moves OUT of town ! HAHAHAHAHAHA

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2010-03-05 16:44:00

Travel up the hill, and you’ll find three subdivisions, all stalled for want of water and sewer connections.

You know, you really need to pay attention to infrastructure concerns before trying to plat a get-rich-quick subdivision.

Comment by Rancher
2010-03-05 17:31:08

But the town is so,so cool. Picturesque little hamlet with, oh, so neat little tourist shops selling
sea shells and beads that close in September and
open in June. Sitting on a shelf jutting into the
ocean with mountains towering behind, shut
off from the world, isolated by miles and miles
of a torturous, twisting two land road that one
Land Yacht can bring to a halt…heaven forbid
you have a medical emergency.

The only people who buy there are the ones that
have water on the brain and mother and daddy’s
money.

Comment by DennisN
2010-03-06 02:59:18

The Oregon coast is really an oddball place. No major roads go there, only small 2-lane roads that traverse the 60-odd miles over from the Willamette valley.

I’ve been to Oregon many times and I’ve just realized I’ve never even once been to the coast in Oregon - it’s that “remote”.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by scdave
2010-03-06 10:48:05

The Oregon Coast is awesome as far as I am concerned…

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Natalie
2010-03-05 12:54:25

“‘The tragedy here is that a lot of people are waiting (to get into the housing market),’ Brewbaker said. ‘If they don’t act by April, they’ll miss the tax credits. If they wait beyond what the Fed is calling an extended period, they’ll be facing higher interest rates.’”

I hate these morons. Obviously, people set the net price they would pay for the home. The tax credit, thus, is not a benefit to a buyer at all (e.g., if 8 ppl would pay 200k and not a penny more for a home, the same ppl would likely pay approximately 208k with the tax credit - depending on circumstances the margins may shift but the concept is still sound). Net result is that the seller is being loaned the 8k to hand over to the seller for the seller to pocket at closing which the buyer has to pay back with interest through the mortgage. This scam ending is a tragedy for some, but certainly not buyers. If the incentives went away prices could fall to equilibrium. If this occurs, why would interest rates shoot up dramatically as this would kill economic growth. Also, why are we assuming everyone wants to be a debt slave and has no significant principal down payment?

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-03-05 14:16:45

When in human history has the “hard sell” ever worked to the benefit of the buyer?

 
Comment by Natalie
2010-03-05 14:35:52

seller is being loaned = buyer being loaned, hard for me to proof on a blackberry

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2010-03-05 14:51:34

We’re REO cash buyers for our final home, a sensible one-story, and hate all these debt slave carrots. You’re right, Natalie. Enough is enough, prices do need to fall to equilibrium. Oh, and the asset management firms and banks need to price fixers as such. I’ve seen the trash priced above the decent stuff. Sorry guys, I am not paying for someone’s serial refi’s.

 
Comment by mikey
2010-03-05 15:42:29

Tax rebates, incentives and other RE rip off nonsence…

“There you stood
Everybody watched you play
I just turned and walked away
I had nothing left to say
‘Cause you’re still the same
You’re still the same
Moving game to game
Some things never change
You’re still the same”

(in his best Bob Seger imitation)

:) mikey bows

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2010-03-05 15:49:43

Standing ovation and applause.
Much more deserved than for John Williams (The film score composer.)

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-03-05 15:42:33

“Obviously, people set the net price they would pay for the home.”

How does How-much-a-month Sally figure that out?

Comment by Natalie
2010-03-05 16:49:21

Did you ever watch the HGTV show Property Virgins? The “star” Realtor used to always say: “First time home buyers are so confused. They get shocked when they see the listing price, and I have to explain to them that all that matters is the monthly nut, and there are lots of new programs to get that below your current rent.” It was truly appalling to see her destroy so many young lives for a commission check and some air time. I would love to see a follow up program with interiews regarding what the “virgins” know think of their Realtor a few years later after realizing they were brutally raped.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2010-03-05 20:09:29

That RE sales person on Property Virgins is one slick cookie all right . It’s a spin show for that industry no doubt ,just like all those shows on HGTV are . In fact ,many industries use so-called experts to brainwash the public into doing it their way .I feel so sorry for those first timers being conned into paying more than they really wanted to by that slick operator that most likely only shows them the comps she wants to show them .

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-03-05 15:40:29

“‘I don’t know what it’s going to be like in three to five years, but in 10, 20 years, I don’t think I’m going to lose,’ said Cai. ‘No way.’”

Does Ben or anyone else have further evidence to demonstrate there is no bubble in China?

Comment by ProperBostonian
2010-03-05 16:01:31

“Mr. Cai is thinking about moving into his new house and renting out his condo, which is now worth four times what he paid for it 10 years ago. But according to his calculations, the return on his investment would be appallingly low. He would have to collect rent for a half century to match what he could sell the apartment for today.”

I think Cai’s strategy is to live for a couple of centuries.

Comment by Ben Jones
2010-03-05 16:13:45

‘He would have to collect rent for a half century to match what he could sell the apartment for today’

He probably won’t have to wait too long, as this ratio should be returning to historic norms much sooner than 50 years.

I can’t help but wonder what the bursting of china’s bubble will do to global finance markets. Back in 2005, that country’s consumption of our MBS’s was the usual starter topic of the US bubble.

Comment by mikey
2010-03-05 18:13:37

If China’s great 3 River Dam cracks or when their housing bubble pops, they’re gonna be in a muddy or bloody mess either way.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by 2banana
2010-03-05 20:32:27

“In Southborough, the median price has dropped 31 percent to $390,000 from $565,500. But Barbara Heisler of Heisler and Mattson Properties in Southborough said the scale of that decline was exaggerated because so many lower-cost homes made up the recent sales data. She said a truer picture of home prices is probably around 20 down.”

Lower cost homes at around $370,000??? What crack are they smoking?

 
Comment by JohnSmith
2010-03-06 10:00:09

“The foreclosure auction was still an hour away…inside the 1,900-square-foot house they built in 1968 for $110,000, and recently assessed by the town at $915,700, G. Stewart Baird Jr., 80, and his wife, Martha, 77, were in despair. Their home and the lovely spot where it sits - 3.9 acres of woods overlooking the Charles River in one of Boston’s nicest bedroom communities - was scheduled to be sold at auction that afternoon.”

“‘I guess we were just hoping things would turn around,’ said Martha Baird. Stewart Baird said they heavily mortgaged their home to pay for living expenses and to support their business in the hopes it would meet what now seem like overly optimistic revenue projections.”

“‘We thought we could do it,’ he said.”
—————————————–

Now, what did they do with $800,000 bucks, which is lot of money BTW,
and why they gotta work anywhere at 80 and 77 , how long they think they gonna live ?

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-03-06 16:07:08

‘Every year there are more and more wealthy Chinese. What are they going to do with all their cash?’ said Cai. ‘You can only buy property or start a company. Property is the safest way to go. Assuming that demand doesn’t change, there will be a shortage of supply in the private sector, resulting in an even sharper rise in home prices.’”

—————————

IMHO, this is exactly why we are seeing so many bubbles. The wealth disparity has never been larger in recent history. The very wealthy (who continue to try to get wealthier every day) honestly don’t know what to do with all that money.

If you suggest that they should be taxed, well, they control the politicians who make sure the taxes will not rise appreciably on this population.

They often don’t want to “give it away” to charities (in large sums) unless they get accolades and have buildings named after them.

They don’t want to pay their employees more, because the elite really believe they are *that much* better than anyone working for them.

This is why I’m a socialist, and strongly advocate for a progressive tax that makes sure this kind of wealth cannot be amassed **and increased, as wealth begets wealth** without evening the score a bit.

Wealth disparities are extremely bad. Show me a single country that has such great wealth disparities, and I guarantee it will be a “third world” country where masses of poor people beg, borrow, and steal in order to survive, while the wealthy elite sit inside their gated estates with private security forces. Not good.

 
Name (required)
E-mail (required - never shown publicly)
URI
Your Comment (smaller size | larger size)
You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

Trackback responses to this post