The Unspoken Refrain Of Some Buyers
A report from the Alaska Dispatch. “Alaska saw 8,988 home loans in 2009, according to preliminary data from the state Department of Labor. That’s down from 9,502 in 2008 and way down from the 12,749 signed back in booming 2006. There were fewer buyers in 2009 because people were waiting to see what prices were going to do, according to Gail Stafford, the president of Alaska Mortgage Bankers Association.”
“Alaska mortgage professionals had a few different explanations for the drop in loan totals, citing a range of factors from tightened lending practices to buyer anxiety over prices. When the economy strays into rough patches, said James Wiedle, a planner at Alaska Housing Finance Corporation, ‘lenders are going to get more risk-averse.’”
The Ottawa Citizen in Canada. “It’s March, when home buying fever strikes hard, and Ottawans are snapping up everything from hip urban condos to sedate retirement townhomes in the ‘burbs. Interest and mortgage rates are at a record low, making home ownership irresistible. Prices, meanwhile, are creeping steadily higher, a goad to buy now before they soar out of sight.”
“Across the country, it’s the same story. With the recession apparently already ancient history, the housing market has hit record highs over recent months. The average price for a house in Canada is now $340,000, a breathtaking amount of money when you think about it.”
“At the same time, we’re awash in IOUs. In the past decade, mortgage and consumer debt in Canada has more than doubled to a record high of $1.4 trillion at the end of the third quarter of 2009. Even here in traditionally cautious Ottawa, bankruptcy experts and credit counselling services are hopping, staff shaking their heads over stories like the one about the couple facing the threat of insolvency with a $300,000 home to their name and a fully outfitted travel trailer in their driveway.”
“But it’s not certain Canada’s booming housing market means we’re in a bubble. ‘Recent house price increases do not appear to be out of line with the underlying supply-demand fundamentals,’ David Wolf, an adviser to the Bank of Canada, says. ‘We see the housing market requiring vigilance, not alarm.’
“In an interview with Maclean’s magazine, Scotia Capital economist Derek Holt said that as many as half of all new mortgages are either variable rate or carry a one-year term. That could leave a lot of mortgage holders in straitened circumstances if rates jump. Brian P. Doyle, president of Ottawa’s Doyle Salewski, specialists in credit counselling and trustees in bankruptcy…says those who grew up in middle-class homes tend to have high material expectations. What’s more, we’ve become a nation of spenders, putting away just two per cent of our paycheques; that number was 20 per cent a couple of decades ago. And we like our credit cards.”
“The other mistake buyers, especially first-timers, make is loading up on goodies. After all, how can you have a new house without new furniture, a big-screen TV, a shiny SUV in the driveway? Low interest rates make it seem easy. ‘The Smiths have it all, so why can’t we?’ is the unspoken refrain of some buyers, says Dan Kosabeck, manager of mortgage development for TD Canada Trust. Don’t-pay-a-cent-events just add to the temptation. ‘All of a sudden, the bills start coming in, and even an extra $130 a month could break a budget.’”
The Canadian Mortgage Broker News. “Rising vacancy rates have been good news to renters in the British Columbia apartment market as new supply has come online. While vacancy rates are climbing, up as high as 8 per cent in Chilliwack, Avison Young says prices have stabilized and sellers have adjusted their expectations. ‘As a result of the lower prices in certain submarkets, the bid-ask gap will likely continue to narrow, leading to more sales as effects of the global financial meltdown and U.S. credit crisis soften,’ says the Avison Young Multifamily Investment Report on BC.”
“According to Businessweek Magazine, Vancouver faces $700 million in financing for the luxury condos used by Olympic athletes in February, and the city needs to sell 474 units for as much as $10 million each to recoup its lending.”
The Idaho Statesman. “Few if any condominiums in Downtown Boise were selling in August, but since then at least 25 sales have closed or are pending. Units at CitySide Lofts sell from $159,900 to $350,000, down about 20 percent from prices of $199,000 to $450,000 two years ago. ‘This year has started out great,’ said Lisa Lyons, director of sales for CitySide Lofts where 10 units have sold since September and three sales are pending. ‘It seems we’ve hit a price, and with the combination of low interest rates and available FHA financing, we’ve found the market.’”
“On the upper end of the spectrum, Royal Plaza sold a condo last week, developer Bob Hosac said. Royal Plaza filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in December and owes its homeowners association $34,000 in dues on unsold units. Prices range from $400,000 to $800,000, down from $469,000 to $925,000 two years ago.”
“At The Jefferson at 4th and Jefferson streets, prices were $287,000 to $1.1 million two years ago but have been reset to $183,750 to $935,000, said Jacque Neef, sales manager. Several projects finished in the past two years have plenty of units to sell for now. And developer Clark said he likely will restart interior construction of his Crescent Rim condos this summer. Clark halted sales in 2008 after several buyers backed away from purchase plans.”
“Sales managers, agents and developers for five projects Downtown said most prices have dropped between 15 percent and 30 percent from 2007. ‘That’s part of the reason I moved on it when I did,’ said Taylor Hunt, who hopes to close in March on a 950-square-foot condo in the historic Gem Noble Lofts. The price is about $200,000. ‘The price was right, and the interest rate was excellent,’ said Hunt, who has been renting in the North End.”
“As his fellow developers around the country can attest, Jeff Hawkes couldn’t have picked a worse time to open Hawks Landing, a new urban lifestyle development in the foothills overlooking the Snake River Valley. But while the construction industry here dropped off with everybody else’s, leaving some 1,369 construction workers – nearly a third of the work force – out of work, Hawkes may have found the perfect spot for the times.”
“Hawkes has reason for optimism. In the past five weeks, after he and his development’s homebuilders dropped their prices to compete with traditional subdivisions in the valley, seven homes have sold. They are confident they will keep selling as buyers learn what a bargain they have. ‘The lights got turned off in 2008, but we persevered,’ said Rob Phelps of Phelps Homes. ‘Now things are turning around.’”
“A lot of Idaho Falls construction workers are still waiting to come back to work, Phelps said. The surplus work force means employers can be choosers. ‘We had 800 resumes for 60 jobs,’ said Tom Dogal, a department manager for Idaho Cleanup Project’s Idaho Nuclear Technology and Engineering Center, the old Idaho Chemical Processing Plant.”
“Max Bosworth at Max’s Gun Shop said business is hot and cold. He knows the region hasn’t been immune to the economic downturn. Last year, Bosworth loaned out more money in his pawn business than ever before, and the rate of failure – when people couldn’t pay him back – rose to 20 percent from the traditional 5 percent. He pawns only guns and fancy saddles, but people come in trying to get him to buy everything from video games to jewelry.”
“‘I see people struggling to make ends meet,’ he said. ‘People who have money are more cautious.’”
The Billings Gazette in Montana. “Vacancies for offices and warehouses in Billings have tripled since the real estate boom. ‘We thought we’d be doing better, but these numbers show we’re not immune,’ NAI Business Properties partner Al Koelzer said. ‘In commercial real estate nationally and in our case, business declined 80 percent in total dollars of real estate leased and sold. It just stopped.’”
“If there had been enough skilled workers to build everything developers wanted to build during the boom times of 2005 and 2006, Billings would have a much higher commercial vacancy rate, according to Paul DuCharme, a commercial broker. Skilled workers were so busy then that DuCharme said he and his wife had a difficult time getting the labor to build their house.”
“‘The joke was I got a plumber on Wednesday, but he forgot to tell me which month,’ DuCharme said.”
The Casper Journal in Wyoming. “Central Wyoming’s Economic Forecast 2010 packed the banquet room at the Best Western Ramkota Inn, and much of the conversation during the forum revolved around how natural gas prices and production affect the local economy. Buck McVeigh, administrator of the State of Wyoming Department of Administration and Information, Economic Analysis Division, said that early in the recovery, employers are ‘hesitant to hire. Unemployment is going to hang around for quite awhile.’”
“That mark was 8.2 percent in Natrona County in December of 2009, and 7.5 percent statewide. State income from the mining industry ‘really took a nosedive,’ McVeigh said. He said home prices are ‘bound to decline even more.’”
“‘We’ve had a lot of challenges we haven’t had to face before,’ long-time banker Mark Zaback, president of Jonah Bank of Wyoming, said. He said loan losses rose for the 12th consecutive quarter to end 2009. Outstanding loans continue to decline.”
The Bellingham Herald in Washington. “Whatcom County home prices fell nearly 7 percent in 2009 as increasing foreclosures, a slower economy, and a softer housing market continued to take its toll. Julia Hansen, an economics professor at Western Washington University, noted that Bellingham-area prices were down only 8.6 percent from the peak, while Seattle-area prices were down 15.1 percent, suggesting Bellingham’s drop has been a fairly modest correction to this point.”
“‘There is continuing uncertainty about whether Bellingham will avoid a more significant correction. Based on the fundamentals, local prices still look high,’ Hansen, who is also editor of the annual Whatcom County Real Estate Research Report, said in an e-mail. ‘The ratio of housing price-to-income remains well above historical levels, for example. On the other hand, the single-family market in the city of Bellingham was not overbuilt during the boom, and so didn’t start the downturn with huge inventories of housing to work off.’”
“Unemployment and foreclosures will be key indicators for what happens next, said Glenn Crellin, director of the Washington Center for Real Estate Research at Washington State University. ‘What is happening in the economy at the end of April may have more of an impact on the real estate market than the federal tax credits coming to an end,’ he said.”
The Kitsap Sun in Washington. “Unemployment in Kitsap County rose to 8.3 percent in January, making the first month of 2010 one of the worst Januarys ever for joblessness. About 10,360 people in Kitsap were seeking work in January, up from 8,600 people in January 2009. Thirteen hundred jobs were lost in Kitsap in January.”
“In the last year, 2,600 jobs have been lost in Kitsap — about 1,000 in construction and another 700 in retail and wholesale trade. ‘We’re definitely in some uncharted territory for Kitsap County, sorry to say,’ said Jim Vleming, a state economist specializing in Kitsap County.”
“Charles Fong, manager of Bubble Island, a smoothie and milkshake shop at Kitsap Mall, also has had to reduce his staff. He has taken on much of the load himself and is at the store from 8:30 a.m. to 7 p.m. seven days a week. ‘Throughout the mall, everybody’s hurting,’ Fong said.”
From KGW in Oregon. “The federal government’s plan to rescue our housing market has been moving like molasses. Lenders continue to foreclose on properties at a record clip. In Oregon, banks have not been required to tell homeowners why they’re losing their homes. ‘Look at this beautiful notice to default,’ said Joanne Smith as she holds a notice from her lender to foreclose on her historic Salem home. ‘I’m not even upside down, I have equity,’ said an exasperated Smith.”
“Smith’s troubles started when her monthly mortgage payments mysteriously doubled about a year ago. It took months to clear up what she says was the lender’s mistake. (and) ended up damaging her credit rating. Now, her adjustable rate mortgage payments are jumping each month, but her lender won’t lower her interest rates because of her bad credit.”
“Smith has been spending her retirement account money to cover her higher mortgage payments, but if they’re not lowered soon, she’ll lose the home she purchased 8 years ago. ‘I’m still not modified,’ said Smith after trying to work with her lender for nearly one year. She claims her lender keeps losing her paperwork. It’s one battle after another and she could lose her home in a matter of weeks. ‘We must do something in this country or this civilization is going to fall apart.’”
‘It seems we’ve hit a price, and with the combination of low interest rates and available FHA financing, we’ve found the market.’
Anyone here at Mr. Ben’s HBB blog wanna suggest something else they also found?
I found some lint in my navel when I was gazing at it.
I found that John Edwards was right…there ARE two Americas.
One that watches re-runs of “Flip that House” and believes that the actual unemployment rate is 9.7% as the Fedummists say, and One that watches their neighbors going to economic hell in a handbasket.
“The other mistake buyers, especially first-timers, make is loading up on goodies. After all, how can you have a new house without new furniture, a big-screen TV, a shiny SUV in the driveway? Low interest rates make it seem easy. ‘The Smiths have it all, so why can’t we?’ is the unspoken refrain of some buyers, says Dan Kosabeck, manager of mortgage development for TD Canada Trust. Don’t-pay-a-cent-events just add to the temptation. ‘All of a sudden, the bills start coming in, and even an extra $130 a month could break a budget.’”
My bet is this “goodie issue” is a big big problem for new homeowners. If I bought a brand new McMansion - could I be OK with staring at empty rooms, or half-decorated rooms with a few sticks of my old stuff or blank walls or bad window treatments - especially if I had a CC? I likely could not. Buying begets buying, so I simply don’t buy anything anymore except food (expensive to eat healthy/well), some clothes updates for work is all.
Another problem with buying into the McMansion lifestyle is that normal furniture gets swallowed up by the hotel-like proportions, so to make it seem at all homey you need to supersize everything.
And another problem is that McMansions are notoriously plain-jane on the inside. All the McMansion models are decorated to the hilt with big furniture and fabrics on the walls and ballroom drapes. I can’t imagine what laundry day must look like. Contrast this to the old Craftsman homes with their gorgeous woodwork and built-ins, or cottages where the rooms are so small that your walls don’t go much distance without hitting a window. Those homes sort of decorates itself. That’s when they didn’t purposely bloat the house with non-kitchen/bath square footage in order to cheapen the build.
The one thing I don’t mock is the big-screen TV. They don’t really cost all that much, and I love that you can hang them on the wall.
Amen, Oxide. The old Arts & Crafts style homes, and even some of the new-build homes faithful to the Arts & Crafts design ethos, feel like real homes. McMansions and new sub-divisions seem soulless to me.
“Buying begets buying…”
Truer words were never spoken - and they go a long ways to explaining the PTB’s obsession with housing. What single purchase can one make that almost reflexively leads to so much other consumer spending?
That’s why you have to budget those things BEFORE you buy. We made sure that we had several thousand free just for those things you get when you move– and in our case, it was partly necessary and immediate repairs, because the prior owners hadn’t even done reasonable repairs. Honestly, how hard is it to spackle holes? (Not very.) We also changed out the doorknobs and locks. We’re in the process of replacing the outlets because they’re so loose that plugs have been known to fall out, and we’ll be putting the GFI (?) outlets in the bathrooms.
The big expense was replacing the heating and A/C, those thirty-year-old energy sinks. But again, we knew that was going to come up in the first year because of the inspection.
Do any of those sound like “goodies?” Many of the buyers who have the problem of designing up their spaces ignore them entirely (hence our need to work on the fundamentals of the house.) Then, even if they aren’t bankrupted by their spending sprees, they have no money when the roof leaks or the sewer backs up. (The roof on our house is a couple of years old… but apparently the neighbors had to talk the prior owners into getting it done even though they had leaks everywhere. Oh yes, we got this one as a foreclosure– and the bank had to make repairs before anyone looked at it seriously. Shuckie darn.)
The dam holding up prices (and strangling sales) may cracking in Downtown Seattle. The Four Seasons Condos have “reduced” their prices 20% but still want >$1000/sf. This trend is accelerating, however, as the 5th and Madison building (a ridiculous high rise in the midst of downtown high rise office towers - no view) is holding an auction later this month with starting prices more than 50% previous prices ($~300/sf). Finally, the Escala (a 265 unit condo with 6 closed sales) announced it is cutting prices 50% ($400/sf). Other big luxury condo buildings such as 1521 - 2nd and Olive 8 cannot be far behind.
While all condo dwellers in Seattle just saw their property values decline by a significant chunk this week (myself included), the faster we get to realistic prices the better the housing market will be for all of us.
“Smith has been spending her retirement account money to cover the higher mortgage payments, but if they’re not lowered soon she’ll lose the home she purchased eight years ago”
Note: She is making her house payments. It’s as struggle for her but she’s still somehow making the payments.
“‘I’m still not modified’, said Smith after trying to work with her lender for nearly one year. She claims her lender keeps losing her paperwork.”
She is making the payments and has been for nearly a year as she hopes to get her loan modified, but her lender keeps losing the loan modificatication paperwork.
My, what a coincidence.
Lol. “modificatication” should be “modification”.
How about “loan transmogrification”?
Loan officer Calvin at your service.
You don’t happen to have a partner named Hobbes, do you?
Well I got an orange tabby named Dukie. Is that close enough?
Dilbert’s co-workers might have had a hand in it too.
loan mortification?
Not to mention that a lot of FB’s are getting “loan edjamacations” these days.
She’s burning through her retirement savings, how many are doing this? She may well get her modification, in which case she’ll have a house and very little else!
“There were fewer buyers in 2009 because people were waiting to see what prices were going to do, according to Gail Stafford, the president of Alaska Mortgage Bankers Association.”
Does Alaska real estate always go up, just like California real estate?
condominiums in Downtown Boise : CitySide Lofts, Royal Plaza (prices range from $400,000 to $800,000, down from $469,000 to $925,000 two years ago), The Jefferson (prices were $287,000 to $1.1 million two years ago but have been reset to $183,750 to $935,000), Crescent Rim condos, Gem Noble Lofts.
Boise? It sounds as bad as Austin! Who knew?
Shoot, there goes my back-up plan for when I get too fed up here. Thought I’d move to Boise and hang out with DennisN - join him for a frugal gourmet dinner or a long walk once in a while. But now Boise sounds like it’s just more of the same….
I need a new escape fantasy.
Yeah I’ve never understood the “gotta have that dark gritty urban downtown living” mantra. My nephew has it bad and spent something over $300K a couple of years back for a tiny 1 bedroom high-rise condo in downtown Seattle.
Move just 5 miles away from downtown Boise and you can buy a nice SFH for more like $200K. Out where I am (about 12 miles out) there’s a short-sale for $140K for an 1,800 square foot 3/2.5. I prefer the edge of the city where you can hear the cows moo on a quiet night rather than the harsh noise of revelers pouring out of the bars at 2 AM.
We can’t hear the cows moo in downtown Seattle, but it is nice to be able to walk to the three Seattle stadiums, the theaters, downtown shopping areas, the restaurants and be at the transportation hub for anywhere you want to go (car, bus or ferry).
Tried living in Downtown Seattle for a month.
Weekend nights, lots of street people. Police sirens all night.
Weekday, pan handlers all over.
As for food, Subways was open, or you can go for something like the Met Grill. I kinda like more options in between.
At the time, there were 0 grocery stores. Now, at least you have Whole Paycheck.
Are there people in Boise who can afford those prices? I have never been there (maybe this is the year for an Idaho hiking trip!), but there are only a few cities in the United States with a critical mass of buyers realistically able to afford a residence in the high six figures. Any state where there are 800 applicants for 60 jobs shouldn’t be trumpeting a housing recovery, because it’s obviously phony.
And Canada. Just like Australia, they are ruining a great country over this. It is impossible to watch real estate bubbles proceeding around the world, with people in positions of responsibility purposefully heedless to what has already happened, and not feel extremely cynical and despairing about human nature.
The average wealth in Boise isn’t that high….but there are exceptions. Don’t forget that article only mentioned a handful of condoz…not thousands of individual developments. Idaho is a prime retirement place for police and firemen from California, with their six-figure retirement packages and equity from houses in CA. They like the red-state nature here where crooks tend to be shot “while resisting arrest” by the local cops. The homeless types tend to move on since the winters here can be severe.
Had I taken a job as house patent counsel with Micron (I interviewed there) when I moved here, I could have easily afforded one of those condoz. But I bought the place I did for cash and didn’t have to work - and if so, why bother?
The greatest luxury of all is not having to work.
The greatest luxury of all is not having to work.
+1000
A the attempt to New Yorkify every urban downtown is probably doomed… as wonky as it is NYC’s subway system, density and status as a center of a number of industries is hard to replicate.
I’m all for restoring urban centers, but can’t see how those “lofty” prices ever made sense.
“The federal government’s plan to rescue our housing market has been moving like molasses.”
It strikes me that an awful lot of hopes and dreams are pinned these days on the federal government’s housing rescue plan. What if the plan never comes to fruition? Where will that leave all these hopers and wishers?
Broke?
That story about the Idaho National Labs and its influence on the economy in Idaho Falls was published much earlier in the Statesman.
If we do push the panic button on climate change, then the nuke industry will be a prime beneficiary, and IDL is well-placed to take advantage of the situation. While no commercial reactors have been built in the US in 30 years, IDL has designed and built all of the reactors for the Navy. They have off-the-shelf contemporary designs.
Trivia question: which city in the entire world has the greatest per capita number of PhDs in physics?
Idaho Falls.
big bang theory? Or perhaps a reference to housing market price drops.
“…the nuke industry will be a prime beneficiary, and IDL is well-placed … IDL has designed and built all of the reactors for the Navy. They have off-the-shelf contemporary designs.”
I’m finally in escrow! My upper-floor unit (U-235) comes with a travertine core, his-and-hers coolant towers, a built-in gamma-wave oven, and even a cute “nook” off the kitchen where I can do my scrapbooking and fission. What’s more, the common area has a below-ground pool for all my spent fuel. I absolutely love it. The first thing I plan to do when I move in is to throw a housewarming party. You’re all invited.
Luv,
Jen
Plus built-in cheap heat. And built-in 24 hour light (never have to fret about turning out the lights). And a water heater built right into the plumbing.
And a kitchen that doubles as a large capacity microwave oven.
And, as and added bonus for those men who were planning on spending big bucks for a vascetomy … not to worry!
I’ve missed you.
“which city in the entire world has the greatest per capita number of PhDs in physics?”
I’d actually like proof of this statement. Same has been said of Tri-Cities in Washington, in particular Richland. I also believe I’ve heard the same said of area around Sandia National Labs.
I forget where I read it, but the important qualifier is “per captia”. Idaho Falls only has a population of 50K, whereas Albuquerque (Sandia) has a population of 500K and the Tri-Cities a population of 170K. A few hundred physics PhDs in Idaho Falls can tilt the “per capita” rate upwards.
Dennis,
Don’t forget about Arco, ID. It was the first community in the world ever to be lit by electricity generated by Nuclear Power.
Tiny Arco still has a hamburger joint on the main drag advertising “atomic burgers” cooked by atomic power. I don’t think many people from the labs live there - mostly farmers, ranchers, and retailers.
http://img.skitch.com/20080728-kfnpyh161j1usgx7tp2iq9y6nj.jpg
Everywhere I have lived has been in a top 10 school district. Weird that I have lived in more than 10 places in just 4 states.
Maybe the best school districts just follow me around.
Of course, now that I think about it, every place I have ever lived is “different.” Everyone wants to live there. It must be because of ME!
Oliverks
‘It seems we’ve hit a price, and with the combination of low interest rates and available FHA financing, we’ve found the market.’
Anyone here at Mr. Ben’s HBB blog wanna suggest something else they also found?
I was in line a Bank of America branch yesterday and still see a posted sign advertising rates. They still advertise 5 1/2 year ARMs. At 3.5%. I am surprised that ARMs are still being advertised.
While I think rates will stay low the next three years, I think they are likely to shoot to the stratosphere after that.
It takes a special kind of stupid to get an ARM when the Fed funds rate is 0 (and in ZERO) percent. Where do you think it’s going; negative 1%?
The only way for rates to go is up, there’s absolutely no doubt about that at all. So why, in a market like that, would anyone get an ARM? ARMs are for times when interest rates are high, and expected to go down. Not the other way around!
Yeah that’s why I’m incredulous. This was in a bank in Torrance. RE prices in the pricier PVE area (up on the hill) have dropped about 20% since 2008. I will check some off the other local branches in the next few weeks. Most of them have the signs but I don’t pay attention to the rates too much. They all seem to offer ARMs and Jumbo loans.
“But it’s not certain Canada’s booming housing market means we’re in a bubble. ‘Recent house price increases do not appear to be out of line with the underlying supply-demand fundamentals,’ David Wolf, an adviser to the Bank of Canada, says. ‘We see the housing market requiring vigilance, not alarm.’
Okay. Please tell me how I short the Canadian housing market in the riskiest, but most profitable way possible? I want to leverage this at about 1000 times. Please, I’m a computer programmer. This has to blow up in a spectacular way.
“Max Bosworth at Max’s Gun Shop said business is hot and cold….He pawns only guns and fancy saddles, but people come in trying to get him to buy everything from video games to jewelry.”
This is very interesting. The only goods moving these days are guns and saddles? Talk about back to basics. What century are we in?
The location of the blurb of the gunshop is in the same context as Idaho. That may explain the guns and saddles. I wouldn’t expect the same to be said in Santa Monica.
Both guns and saddles last a long time. Why would a pawnshop owner take in things like video games past their prime? Or old broke down stereo/TV gear? Tools used to be prime pawnables but with the downturn in construction all too many tools will not be redeemed by the owners. Jewelry is probably not worth much more than the metal value.
I drop by pawnshops to windowshop…cheap entertainment in my retirement. One place in Boise had an enourmous amount of power tools. I’ll bet the pawnshop made a mistake in loaning against them.
Program Will Pay Homeowners to Sell at a Loss
By DAVID STREITFELD
Published: March 7, 2010
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/08/business/08short.html?adxnnl=1&src=sch&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1268053714-VMnUIwdySr/zrG299QgCDQ