Not The Boom-Time Windfall Once Expected
The Lake County News Sun reports from Illinois. “The fear of losing one’s home in these difficult times sent hundreds of area homeowners Saturday to a free program designed to help them. The homeowners seeking relief are hardly poverty-stricken. In the parking lot, there were a couple of late model Cadillacs and a shining Hummer. In most cases, they were the victims of the recession, having lost their jobs but burdened by mounting debts. Dan Rouille of Gurnee who lost his $100,000-a-year job in information technology, said he owes $82,000 on a house he bought for $109,000 in 1991. ‘Recently, I received a loan modification from the bank but ended up with a $60,000 in interest I’ve to pay,’ said Rouillet who said he has found job in his field with a 70 percent pay cut.”
“‘I’m here today hoping to get a better alternative,’ he said, pointing out that he has exhausted his $100,000 Individual Retirement Account to keep up with his $1,000 monthly mortgage payment. He and his working wife have three children with the oldest, 19, college-bound. ‘Our payments for insurance and taxes are more than the mortgage,’ he said.”
“Richard McDade, an actor who lost his job a year ago, said he bought a town house in 1997 in Gurnee for $128,000. After refinancing and taking out another loan in 2006, he now owes his lender $207,000. He is seeking a reduction of his $1,650 monthly payment by $200. Wells Fargo, he said, did reduce his payment by $20 a month, which he said, is hardly enough. ‘I don’t have anything left for emergencies like a car breakdown,’ said McDade.”
“Antonio Centeno and his wife came to the event from Carpentersville. He said his lost his job in construction and is three months behind in his $2,200 monthly mortgage payment. He said they owe $140,000 to Chase after taking out a home equity loan in 1998. ‘We are hoping to get a reduction in mortgage payments,’ said Centeno.”
The Star Tribune in Minnesota. “Rosalina Gomez is a $13-an-hour janitor who cleans the U.S. Bancorp executive offices every night. Last week, Gomez tried to meet with Richard Davis, U.S. Bancorp’s chief executive, to ask him to halt the foreclosure of her Minneapolis duplex and to give her family a mortgage that reflects its reduced valuation and their ability to pay.”
“‘I want Richard to help my family keep our home,’ Rosalina said through an interpreter last week. ‘But we need a payment we can afford. The house was valued at more than $200,000 in 2006. And now it is valued at $65,000.’”
The Detroit Free Press in Michigan. “With more than 500,000 households in Michigan owing more on their mortgages than the homes are worth, thousands of Michigan residents are choosing to abandon their homes and walk away, even if they can afford to continue making payments. Sondra Malone bought a house in Eastpointe in 2005 with an adjustable-rate mortgage. The $1,200-a-month payment on the house, along with high heating bills, an expensive SUV payment and other family expenses, quickly buried her in debt.”
“At the same time, the bottom was falling out of the housing market with record foreclosures dragging down home values. Malone was soon underwater on her mortgage. She owed $116,000 on a house she listed for $99,000 in 2007. After trying to work out a lower payment with her bank, and trying to sell her house, Malone rented a condo in Sterling Heights and walked away from her house in 2007.”
“‘I didn’t know what else to do,’said Malone. ‘I’m embarrassed.’”
“One Whitmore Lake homeowner walked away after his bank pulled his business line of credit. He had spent more than 20 years building up his semi-trailer business. The man’s $400,000 lakefront home was collateral. In the midst of a short sale, he found another house for much less and walked away from the old one. His wife’s name was not on the mortgage, so she was able to get a new mortgage in her name.”
“The homeowner ended up filing for bankruptcy, in part to avoid his lender coming after him for what was owed on his mortgage. His credit was so damaged, he’s having a tough time starting a new business. His sister has helped him with loans. ‘Everything I’ve worked for the last 20 years is gone,’ he said. ‘Now I’m a dirtball. I can’t even go and get a used car.’”
The Sandusky Register in Ohio. “Foreclosure filings in Ohio set a new record in 2009. There were 89,053 foreclosure lawsuits filed statewide, up 3.8 percent from 2008. Foreclosures have spread from urban areas to other areas of Ohio, said Bill Faith, executive director of the Coalition on Homelessness and Housing in Ohio. ‘The crisis is marching steadily out into the suburban counties,’ he said. ‘Look at Medina, Wood, Geauga, Delaware — they all posted double-digit increases.’”
“Sandusky attorney Dan McGookey, a veteran attorney, has made foreclosure defense his specialty. McGookey said almost all mortgage loans are resold from one company to another. He said he can often force creditors filing a lawsuit to negotiate by challenging whether the plaintiff actually owns the note and has the standing to sue.”
“McGookey said after dealing with many clients, he’s learned it’s a myth homeowners facing foreclosures got into trouble because they’re irresponsible. The vast majority suffered a financial reversal, such as becoming unemployed or losing a good job and having to take a lower-paying one, he said. Amanda Aquino, a lawyer in Sandusky’s Legal Aid office who deals with housing issues, said most of her clients, like McGookey’s, got into trouble after losing a job or suffering a medical emergency.”
“‘Most of them have been some sort of unexpected event,’ she said. ‘The majority of the clients I see, it’s been some financial burden.’”
Business First Columbus in Ohio. “Ohio was not among the five states picked to share additional federal stimulus funding to combat home foreclosures and declining real estate values in February, and Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown is making a case to amend that. Characterizing the Buckeye state as being on the frontline of the housing crisis, Brown noted Ohio ranks sixth in the nation for the total number of homeowners who owe more on their properties than they’re worth.”
“Brown plans to pursue two major tacks to help the state achieve more money to combat foreclosures – lobby the administration to include Ohio in future awards from the 4HP program, and ask the administration to improve the Home Affordable Modification Program. ‘Too many Ohioans are trying to modify their mortgages so they can hold onto their homes, but getting nothing but the run-around from their lenders,’ Brown said. ‘Too many communities are seeing vacant and abandoned properties that lower surrounding property values and compromise economic development.’”
From Roll Call. “Rep. Jim Jordan is a Republican from Ohio. ‘In February 2009, the Obama administration rolled out its foreclosure mitigation plan, aimed at providing relief for homeowners struggling to pay their mortgages. But instead of helping up to 4 million troubled homeowners as the Treasury Department predicted, HAMP had produced only about 31,000 permanent mortgage modifications as of November. While HAMP enrolled hundreds of thousands of homeowners, the vast majority who enrolled have not qualified for permanent mortgage payment reductions. This failure has put these homeowners in an even worse position than they would have been had they never entered HAMP.”
“In most cases so far, HAMP only delays foreclosure; it doesn’t prevent foreclosure. It doesn’t take an economist to realize that the longer it takes for homeowners to get out of mortgages that they can’t afford, the longer the housing crisis will last.”
The Capital Times in Wisconsin. “When Mid Town Commons was approved by the City Council in 1999, it was widely cheered as Madison’s first ‘new urbanism’ residential development. The overall development called for 700 dwelling units in a mix of residential and mixed-use buildings, with a commercial core along Mid Town Road. A decade later, however, only about half of the so-called ‘High Point-Raymond’ neighborhood has been built out. And it’s been virtually all residential development; none of the street-scale shops and restaurants first envisioned.”
“Developer Justin Temple is now moving forward with an $8 million, 80-unit apartment project at 1723 Waldorf Boulevard, despite earlier plans that called for mixed uses on the site. Temple says he would still love to pursue a mixed-use project but says the soft economy and poor commercial leasing market have dictated otherwise.”
“‘We just couldn’t do the new urbanism,’ he says.”
The Star Press in Indiana. “There’s no better illustration of how the national real estate crisis and recession have hit homebuilders than the numbers that Mark Thurston cites, in a matter-of-fact manner that downplays the impact on his company, TK Constructors. ‘In 2006, we built 700 homes,’ Thurston says. ‘In 2009, our worst year, we built 155 homes.’”
“For much of the 1990s and 2000s, the homebuilding boom was good to TK Constructors. Thurston’s company grew and prospered in Indiana, Ohio and Kentucky. Besides building about 500 homes each year on lots owned by customers, Thurston entered into other ventures like the 32-home Lexington Point housing addition in Yorktown.”
“In 2002, TK was named one of the 101 best companies to work for in the construction industry by Professional Builder magazine. The company’s growth attracted attention. ‘Before the bottom fell out, we received dozens of inquiries from people trying to purchase us,’ Thurston said. ‘That dropped off to zero.’”
“‘And we still battle foreclosures, although it’s not as bad for us as some builders because our customer owns his own lot and wants us to build on it,’ he said. ‘They’re not in the market for foreclosures.’”
“Thurston is not among those on the ‘blame the banks’ bandwagon. ‘Home prices have stabilized. That’s the key. If banks can be convinced that prices have stabilized or are on the way up, I think the money will get easier. We’ve made banks out to be evil, but I’m not sure I would do anything different than them. The frustrating part is that [federal banking regulators] are playing the banks as the bad guys. Why not come out and say, ‘We’ve tightened regulations so much it’s difficult to make loans?’”
“Michael Hicks, a Ball State University economist…noted that home sales have declined by the greatest margin in 50 years in recent weeks. ‘That is a good sign, because it suggests we are near the end of the excess supply of new homes that ran up in the bubble,’ he said.”
“Thurston is cautious, although he notes that TK Constructors is once again fielding offers from people interested in buying up his company. ‘My crystal ball is for sale,’ he said, laughing.”
The Wichita Eagle in Kansas. “Development continues at and near Fort Riley, despite the debacle of overbuilding, misjudgment and corruption in the area over the past five years. Although some Wichita firms were burned by the Junction City housing bust, a few Wichita companies remain in the area and are doing quite well. Outside the base, the speculative overbuilding of housing in Junction City in anticipation of the influx put many builders out of business and got a city commissioner and a developer convicted of bribery.”
“Since 2004, the city has annexed 1,500 acres and had 52 subdivisions develop. The city went into debt to buy land and install roads and utilities to supply the expected subdivisions. The city has $124 million in debt, as of last year. Much of that debt was to be paid back through specials. The shortfall in construction has led a heavy tax burden on the city. The city manager resigned in August.”
“One of the builders, Robert Harris of Harris Custom Homes in Wichita, stopped building in Junction City when the price of lots doubled and building practices didn’t meet his standard, but he continues to build in nearby Manhattan, Wakefield and Chapman. There is money to be made from the growth of the base, Harris said, just not the kind of boom-time windfall once expected.”
“‘That was just crazy,’ he said.”
Dan Rouille of Gurnee who lost his $100,000-a-year job in information technology, said he owes $82,000 on a house he bought for $109,000 in 1991. ‘Recently, I received a loan modification from the bank but ended up with a $60,000 in interest I’ve to pay,’ said Rouillet who said he has found job in his field with a 70 percent pay cut.”
So in almost 20 years he only paid off $27,000 of his house or he “liberated” the equity in his house - probably several times.
I wonder, looking back, if he would have enjoyed life more by paying off his mortgage (less than 1x his annual salary).
Another story in which the math isn’t adding up. There has to be a cash-out-refi or HELOC in there somewhere. He cashed out his $100K retirement savings to pay… well even after taxes and penalties that would have given him $60K-$70K or so, and he should easily afford the $40K-$50K balance on his $100K/year salary.
I believe him when he says insurance and taxes are more than the mortgage. Its likely that when we buy, we’ll be in the same boat. Property taxes are outrageous in Illinois.
And how did he end up going through $100K of retirement savings (not sure if that is what he started with or that is what it was after taxes and penalties) in a year while collecting the maximum unemployment and having a working spouse. It sounds like his entire PITI is less than $2000 a month. Something really isn’t adding up.
Out of
the frying pan, Carpentersville, and into thefryerGurnee.It’s not adding up . He has gone from a 100k job to a 30k job ,Apparently he had a long run of unemployment but he had a low mortgage ,but it looks like he got or pulled out or racked up another 60k in interest owing to the Bank . Plus he went through
100k in retirement funds (I guess during this period of unemployment. )
I think this family didn’t reduce their 100k or more a year lifestyle when
he became unemployed for beginners . But ,this payment on the house was pretty low by todays standards . Again another story of mismanagement of funds .I’m assuming he got unemployment insurance during this period also .
But if the employers are only offering 30% on the dollar for the same job ,or he can only get 30% of what he got before in gainful employment than that’s a lifestyle change that is dramatic ,which I’m assuming is happening to a lot of people .
But the common thread in a lot of the stories posted is people are wanting to keep their lifestyles that they had during the boom
and when it get down to it in the end they want the government to give thousands of dollars for this in one supplement or another ,or the banks to cram down any debt they racked up .
This is a case where if the guy had reduced his lifestyle expenses once he became unemployed ,he might of been in better shape .I feel for the guys reduction in income ,but at the same time I think there was failure to accept the situation
of this change in lifestyle or the job situation confronting him .
I think this family didn’t reduce their 100k or more a year lifestyle when he became unemployed for beginners .
Yup. They probably have two expensive vehicles in the garage with monthly payments and insurance that cost more to service than the mortgage. Not too hard these days. A 30K car loan would run $600 a month. Now multiply that times two.
This is a case where if the guy had reduced his lifestyle expenses once he became unemployed ,he might of been in better shape.
The cars/trucks were probably underwater, throw in some credit card debt, maybe a student loan and there was a chunk that couldn’t be reduced.
Interesting that he went from 100K to 30K in pay. IT and CS salaries are definitely down, but I’ve never seen anything like that. Then again I’ve never met an “IT guy” that was paid 100K. It must have been a sweet gig.
Colorado . I would of taken the 100k and pay off the cars for starters and other debt maybe . But I don’t think this guy thought he was going to go that low in income or be unemployed that long . I would not of risked the house with that low of a mortgage . But I don’t see how people can take these
kinds of income downgrades without busting everything they have set up in the way of monthly nut . No way can this dude afford health insurance now unless his new employer is paying for it .More employers are not offering it or dropping the level of benefits . You can say ,this guy didn’t see it coming .
This is a case where if the guy had reduced his lifestyle expenses once he became unemployed ,he might of been in better shape .I feel for the guys reduction in income ,but at the same time I think there was failure to accept the situation
of this change in lifestyle or the job situation confronting him .
Yes. I’ll never forget in LA in 1992, right after the crash of SoCal’s Housing Bubble Light. My self-employed income was cut about 50% for mabye 2 years. An IT friend of a friend suggested that he’d never stay with a job with such reduced pay. I told him he might if he’d always lived his life like he made 30% less than his pay. His response was a blank stare.
Years later he lost his job and virtually ended up on the street.
“IT” is a generic term. He could have been a developer, project manager, architect, or any of many other roles with a decent job history at a tech company making $40-$100 per hour. It’s actually fairly common.
“IT” doesn’t just mean the guy who fixes your printer.
I don’t know. Everywhere I’ve worked “IT” meant “IT” and not R&D.
“IT” doesn’t just mean the guy who fixes your printer.”
But mostly…
He couldn’t find work at the salary he needs to make a decent living.
Right ,but this guy had 100k in savings a low mortgage and unemployment insurance for a while . I feel for the guy getting downgraded in income ,but this family should of been able to
weather the storm and make adjustments without getting into this bail me out pay all my debts I racked up . This is mismanagement of funds ,plain and simple . Now hes just a foreclosure waiting to happen when this could of been one of the cases that he could of been able to make it in his house going forward I don’t see that his expense is going to be that much lower being a renter ,verses the position he was in when he became unemployed .
Don’t get me wrong,taking that kind of downgrade on income is
horrible . But it would be better if the government works that problem ,as in where have all the live-able wage jobs gone ,than handing out thousands of dollars to people to pay for their debt .
Just typical bad reporting.
SMF “He couldn’t find work at the salary he needs to make a decent living ”
If you want me to go into a long winded rant about how I feel about outsourcing and manufacturing leaving this country ,and
Corporations taking advantage of wage earners and Global markets screwing the American people I will . This is what the real problem is . The cost structures in American do not
go along with Global low wage competition . It would be hard for any family to live on under 50 k these days if you take taxes and health care costs into consideration . It’s all about the bottom line of Corporations now ,and never mind people and their need for live-able wages .
It has always been about the bottom line and it will always be about the bottom line.
No one works for free, and neither do companies.
I could also go on and on about how manufacturing was allowed to leave this country due to many factors, government regulations included. Goodyear was forced to close their LA plant so they could get closer to meeting their pollution standards as one example.
And regardless of what you think, American corporations have higher taxes imposed on them than even those in Europe.
The slow erosion of our manufacturing base has been masked over the last two bubbles the US has witnessed. For too many decades, the growth industry in the US has been ‘growth’, if you know what I mean.
But there is no other place in the world where corporations pay for employees’ health care. Nowhere.
True re: Illinois property taxes.
Why buy in Illinois? Illinois is fairly inexpensive if you don’t buy anything (3% flat income tax). Rent and stay lean in acquisitions and it’s an okay place to live (the political scene aside, of course).
YO!! Danny, NAR.
Mortgage payments are guaranteed while jobs are not.
Buying a house is a helluva lot easier than paying (making payments) for a house. In other words, any ahole can buy a house but not any ahole can make payments on the house. How come in school they don’t have classes on buying a house? Why? Because this economy depends on F*cking stupid consumers that’s why.
IMO, since 1970 on this has been a ponzi economy.
The pols sucked you into buying a house then shipped your job overseas. I guess that in the future we will get an insight via direct experience on living the chinese way.
He had spent more than 20 years building up his semi-trailer business. The man’s $400,000 lakefront home was collateral.
Hmmmm - truck drivers buying $400,00 lakefront homes?
Well, he did own a business. No details were provided in the story as to how many rigs he operated. I know a guy who operates two rigs and he is really hurting bad now. Unfortunately his biz was built around trucking construction materials and he’s been scrambling for the past two years to find new non-construction customers.
The Star Tribune in Minnesota. “Rosalina Gomez is a $13-an-hour janitor who cleans the U.S. Bancorp executive offices every night. Last week, Gomez tried to meet with Richard Davis, U.S. Bancorp’s chief executive, to ask him to halt the foreclosure of her Minneapolis duplex and to give her family a mortgage that reflects its reduced valuation and their ability to pay.”
“‘I want Richard to help my family keep our home,’ Rosalina said through an interpreter last week. ‘But we need a payment we can afford. The house was valued at more than $200,000 in 2006. And now it is valued at $65,000.’”
Richard Davis should find out who loaned a $13/hour janitor a cool $200,000 and fire them and their whole department. And then tell this person in Spanish -> sin dinero - no hay casa.
‘give her family a mortgage that reflects its reduced valuation and their ability to pay’
Well, here you go Washington and the media. This is where all this leads; “give” me this, “give” me that. No matter what these people did to get into this mess, the obvious fraud involved or where the money is supposed to come from.
Considering this is $13/hour before taxes, how in the heck could this person ever pay off even the $65k? You know, the media is running off the cliff with this interpretation of things. Politicians can follow this insane logic if they want, but it’s a dead end, IMO.
So many of these stories revolve around people taking out debt they couldn’t afford ,living higher lifestyles , rolling those sevens’ ,than saying bail me out ,oh poor me . Fraud was involved with this loan of Mrs Gomez no doubt. The banks are saying bail me out also .
Lenders making loans like this and borrowers making loans like this is pure insanity .There isn’t any liability on the part of the loan agent that made that loan ,or the real estate agent that put a 13 dollar a hour person into a 200k house (as if these so-called professionals didn’t know what they were doing ).
All of this is just crazy fraudulent mania stuff ,than bail me out .
Mrs Gomez could never afford this house . But why do we have this
policy of saving homeowners and a corrupt industry out of the
public funds ? The response to this mess gets more crazy by the minute . Really the real victims are the people that put up the money and were conned into thinking they were investing in AAA
grade paper .
I think the buyers of these big houses are from the generation of little tykes who since they first went shopping with their mommies saw mommie stick a plastic card in a slot of a big building and out popped money. Flash forward to the nineties and they have no clue about adding, subtracting and understanding monthly bills. Blame the d@m**! schools that ought to be teaching sensible life skills and budget principles because it’s the administration’s job to know what kids ought to be learning in their generation in order to function in a successful social system. Parents fail their kids because they have no wisdom themselves (or if they do they have no credibility with their own grown kids); the schools fail the kids because corporate America runs the school curriculum. Thus we have a nation of ignorant, suckers with “entitlement disorders.”
Politicians can follow this insane logic if they want ?
“Feel Good” politics…To hell with what is the “right” thing to do…
Debtors outnumber savers, consumers outnumber producers, but they can all vote. The trajectory is obvious, we ain’t seen nothing yet.
I once thought FBs could not form a voting bloc - I was dead wrong.
If TPTB wanted to benefit FBs first and foremost, Obama would have supported cramdown of first mortgages. All of these “assistance” programs are designed to help banks by propping up asset values and trying to keep people feeding the alligators.
True. It is letting the air out slowly. I see from yesterday’s WSJ that Fannie and Freddie are returning loans to the big banks under repurchase agreements - the banks, who are of course fighting them off, ARE reserving for them. GOOD. They SHOULD eat their own crappy underwriting (my apologies to the underwriters who were pressured). I believe Wells has now a $1B reserve, and B of A $500 million. This is what they need to do - eat slowly until it’s all gone, and not stick me with the bill.
This is what they need to do - eat slowly until it’s all gone, and not stick me with the bill.
Thanks Mac,
I hope we get less of the bill than I think we’re getting. Please keep an eye on this.
As long as there are enough non-gamblers in the U.S. to hit up for covering the bad gambling debt of the housing market lottery participants, where is the problem?
…Debtors outnumber savers, consumers outnumber producers, but they can all vote. The trajectory is obvious, we ain’t seen nothing yet…
What could be even more scary? They breed…
Maybe they can extend and pretend until all those FB’s die off. Then banks will be forced to eat the losses. But it won’t matter because by then the kids will have racked up their own debt.
Now $13/hr is about $26K/year. I wonder what she paid for the place - $200K a couple of year ago is a meaningless number depending on when she bought.
Notice the “reporter” didn’t ever get around to asking the original loan balance and the current loan balance.
OK there’s some info on page 3 of the story…
Documents indicate that they accepted a $204,744 adjustable rate mortgage with Chase Bank at 7 percent interest. Fretes got a $7,000 commission.
OK so the guy doing the refi got $7,000 - that’s the real story.
Son gets $15/hr sometimes. That brings the household total up to $56K, although they pay more tax since it’s a mother and son.
That’s 3.5 points in commission. For a debt instrument.
I agree, DennisN, the three and a half point commission is the real story here.
At that level of income, one has no business in a house costing anything over 60K.
And good luck finding one that doesn’t cost over $60k.
That is what trailers and apartments are for.
Like Casey “I lied to the banks” Serin, people are now following that same footprint. They seem to think that they can lie on a loan application with impunity.
I wonder how many of these same people are tax evaders?
Casey Serin! Long, long time since I saw that name here.
“Politicians can follow this insane logic if they want, but it’s a dead end”
And Walls Vegas stockbrokers are pumping up the market with millions of these stories being told…in spite of a dead end also on its way.
These stories always start from the premise that the bank is able to make these reductions, but is just being mean. Even if the banks wanted to write-down all these mortgages, how much wiggle room do they have? There should be some reporting on the bank in question, how many of that bank’s loans are seeking modifications, and out of those modifications, what is a realistic number that could be modified without the bank going under. Are we even hearing about the worst cases? It could be that by writing down the Gomez’s loan, it would mean not modifying someone else in even more dire circumstances. The reporters just cherry-pick some sad stories and don’t even try to put it into any kind of business context.
“‘We just couldn’t do the new urbanism,’ he says.”
MadBoy, one of our posters the from Madison area, could have enlightened this fool and his newly found sunbeam of wisdom, many years ago.
I actually RENT about 1 mile away!!
Probably not, as in 1999 I moved to the Chicago area (then to the Gurnee area a few years after - the IT guy must be working at Best Buy GeekSquad). It was aroung ‘99 that prices really started to get wild in Madison.
They were supposed to be getting a daycare over there, but maybe that’s ended.
This developer has 6500 sq ft lots and I’ve looked at some of the homes that have a 5 ft strip of lawn around the house. Question - why does homeowner need 2 riding mowers in the garage?
The developer also had the only $1,000 downpayment needed to be able to close on a house.
I think it was here that someone wrote about the irony of so many people needing no money to buy a house now have to come up with money to be able to sell the house.
“In the parking lot, there were a couple of late model Cadillacs and a shining Hummer. In most cases, they were the victims of the recession, having lost their jobs but burdened by mounting debts”.
The term/word “victim” is constantly used year after year out of context. These people are not ‘victims’ of a damn thing. S-can the fancy cars, cut the cable, stop spending money you don’t have,take a job,any job and if all else fails file BK.
Though sh!t get over it and get on with your life. To many many people living behind a facade.
The steady drumbeat of these stories does give one a certain degree of immunity to them after a while. That said, taken in aggregate it is indeed simply shocking at how quickly so many are turning to others for aid before doing what they can to help themselves first. It’s one thing that they might not have saved for a rainy day, but for pete’s sake if you’re going to cry victim at least take the bus to the freaking place!
The problem with cars is that they are either upside down or leased. Sure they can get out of them, they just have to bring money they don’t have to the table. Cancelling cell phone and cable/satellite contracts can also be pricey.
I wonder how many of these “income reduced” folks are mortgage brokers and realtors?
we’re all victims, even us savers! Victims the lot of us! Oh woe is us, never our fault.
They are victims, of poor genetics and/or parenting…;)
Nope, just a sense of entitlement. Comes from watching the Rich and the Famous …………lol
Mortgage Principal Writedown Won’t Save Housing
Mon. 8 Mar 2010 By: Diana Olick -Reality Check
http://www.cnbc.com/id/35768105
Key points from Diana Olick’s story:
“The problem is prices. Home prices have fallen so far in the hardest hit areas, the areas where the bulk of the troubled loans are, that banks would have to write down principal 30 to 50 percent to put borrowers back in the green. Accounting rules require that banks write down the value of those loans on their books, and experts tell me that if banks really accounted for all the losses in the home loan market, they’d all be insolvent.”
As long as “save” means “return to the Bubble Years of every-increasing prices” we have not finished with The Bubble.
If the Corporations are going to pull a downgrade in wages ,and we are going to have these high unemployment rates ,than overall this is a major cost structural change .If the America people can’t
compete with a dollar a hour competition and can’t even get jobs because of manufacturing leaving ,than all prices should go down to 25 cents for a cup of coffee and 10 k for a house and 25 bucks a month for your health care .
They should, but the banksters won’t have that. Every single mortgage would be underwater. As in Davey Jone’s locker.
Agreed, but the goal is to pay 3rd world wages with 1st world prices. Then, get everyone into debt to buy things and then exploit the debt-serfs for the rest of their lives. Anything else would require the bankers to live in mere wealth vs. absurd riches and might even give normal Americans a chance at a better life, and they won’t allow that to happen.
You know people talk about people living in the past and wanting the lifestyle wage structures and cost structures we have had and people are just not accepting the NEW AGE GLOBAL MARKETS NEW DEAL .
But ,I think the truth is Global Corporation Monopolies want to go back to the past . Back to the past where you exploit your work force with
1 dollar a hour wages ,no controls on pollution for industry ,poison products because of little regulation or enforced standards in other Countries ,no
benefits for employees ,16 hour work days ,child labor ,and no Union protection at all .
And why can’t the American people take a 70% wage cut and still pay 1k a month in health care ,whats wrong with you Americans can’t you work 16 hours a days to make ends meet .
Why can’t you Americans get with the program ,the stock market Corporations need those bottom lines ,after all emerging markets are where it’s at .
The new paradigm. Screw stable communities and jobs, that’s not their problem.
It’s a waste of time to bi#ch about it. It is what it is. The decision to take this course was made a long time ago. The Housing Bubble (and the related boom in construction and finance jobs), intentionally or not, diverted attention away from the fact that the manufacturing base of this country was being packed up and sent somewhere else. All you can do is adjust your life to survive/prosper in the new set of circumstances.
Just rent “Norma Rae” and watch it in reverse.
Seems to me that kids of military personnel, living with frequent moves/relocations, and, if assigned overseas, foreign-language skills, would be perfectly adapted to thrive in this new environment.
Someone needs a drink…or two…
No. Wizard is right. They want to pay us 3rd world wages and then scratch their heads when no one buys anything.
And being self employed doesn’t help. Corporate America is busy putting Main St. out of business and taking over its customers. There is a mom-n-pop applicance store we have always done business with. Their prices are the same as Sears or Best Buy and their service is very good. I popped into their store last month when we were going to replace an over the stove microwave oven. They had virtually no inventory and their showroom was almost empty. He told us is was because he couldn’t get credit to purchase inventory. And to make matters worse any microwave we wanted was backordered for months, apparently because the big boyz had dibs on the reduced supply chain.
They were able to find a reasonablly priced spare part (the magnatron) and repaired the microwave for a fraction of what a new one wounld have cost. Still, I don’t see how he’s going to stay in business if he can’t procure inventory to sell.
They got away with this easy money debt scheme for a while to
keep the purchasing power of the American People ,and we have already gone over how they sold a real estate Ponzi scheme that gave the American people a fake wealth effect ,and more importantly a feeling that they could keep their lifestyles and even upgrade lifestyle by this leverage debt scheme using real estate or credit cards.
All the while the American people were throwing the sevens ,thinking that this real estate always goes up ,sell to the greater fool, was going to be their saving grace ,and they sold real estate like that .
Why did the American people go along with it ,especially the liar loan fraudulent part of it. They should of told these market makers to go to hell ,I can’ afford this or that ,but they didn’t .
Why did the American people go along with it ,especially the liar loan fraudulent part of it. They should of told these market makers to go to hell ,I can’ afford this or that ,but they didn’t .
Yes, they should have told the market makers to go to hell. I agree. I did and I spent 6 years in NorCal mental purgatory because I was actually “left behind” many friends for years. But I refused to commit fraud.
Some bought because they wanted to buy a house. But I think people also did it because there was an incessant confluence of events that in hindsight shared some traits with the definition of “entrapment”.
1. Pensions turned into to IRA’s, 401Ks (and houses)
2. There was the elimination of job security
3. Madison Ave. screamed it was the right thing to do
4. Stock market crashed in 2000. People then looked towards houses because we’ve been told “we’re on our own”.
(please note today’s discussion of the lack of retirement savings)
5. Government tax policies and both Dems and Repubs encouraged it year after year.
6. Our Presidents basically told us to buy a house. NEVER in the history of America had government pushed home-ownership so hard and thereby manipulating American’s desire for the “American Dream”
7. There was a real fear of getting left behind. Their friends were literally getting “rich” while they themselves were scoffed at.
8. Peoples survival instinct kicked in and they did things they shouldn’t have done. *
9. Never had Banks engaged so recklessly and fraudulently in mortgage lending.
This is not an excuse for what they did and understanding and condoning are different. But I do understand why they did what they did but I do not condone it. I do not feel sorry for the FB’s but I find it hard to wish them punishments that those above them are not receiving.
*The main thing about money, Bud, it makes you do things you don’t wanna do. From the movie: Wall Street
en·trapped, en·trap·ping, en·traps
1. To catch in or as if in a trap.
2.
To lure into danger, difficulty, or a compromising situation.
source: free online dictionary
10. As the Real Estate market became drenched in hype, the Fed decided to dry it out using the low-interest microwave.
But I think we can correct this mess ,so maybe that is where I am a dreamer . First ,the American people would really have to understand what in fact the mess is verses the PR machines version of the story . If you don’t like Goldmans idea of how the New World
financial markets should be ,than it’s time for a change to the train we are on . These mad men can’t see the rock in the Ocean ,you hear me .
But I think we can correct this mess
I think you are right.
“And to make matters worse any microwave we wanted was backordered for months, apparently because the big boyz had dibs on the reduced supply chain.”
If this were one or two big boyz grabbing the supply, then you could argue an anti-trust issue. Unfortunately, there are enough of the big players that the math just doesn’t work out. But it should. If he is willing to pay what the large chains pay (possibly a little more to compensate for the cost of delivering small quantities) and can sell for what they sell (or provide enough extra service to justify people going to his store even with higher prices), there is no excuse for him not being able to get stock. Oh, except for not being able to get the money to do it, or course.
Actually, he had to drive down to Denver to pick up the stuff himself.
We have the exact same situation at an appliance store in my town. The display floor is half empty. They have been in business for 75 years.
I’m seeing this with all sorts of Main St. businesses. Be it hardware stores, restaurants, auto repair, office supplies, florists, barber shops, etc. they’re getting clobbered by corporate america. Just look in any strip mall and see how many shops are chains. Its even worse at “outdoor malls” that have an anchor.
Heck Office Depot, Staples and Office Max have pretty much killed all the mom-n-pop office supply stores. Maybe there is a reason there were so many candle, pirate, teddy bear and scrapbook stores. Corporate America knew that were best avoided.
Even teddy bears have gone corporate: build a bear.
Also think that some businesses that used to franchise, like Hallmark cards, etc. are now trying to have control of all retail outlets, allegedly in the name of consistent brand image.
Others, like Liz Claiborne are concentrating on partnerships (such as their exclusive deal with J C Penny) and developing retail stores for “direct brands” such as Lucky Jeans, Juicy Couture and Kate Spade.
Not only cuts out the middle man, but minimizes the dependence / risk that a distributor, such as a large department store, can force concessions or cut you out as punishment.
Man, this is really bad news about all those independent businesses.
Why didn’t our bail-outs help them? I’ve heard all my life that small businesses create the most jobs and all my life that owning your own business was a big part of capitalism and the American way.
I think you are confusing the ‘Big Corporations’ with ‘Wall Street’. Wall Street in essence produces nothing, but they are the ones that get the big rewards.
And you want the bottom line to be good for these companies. I still recall speaking to coworkers complaining about those ‘big utilities’ during the California energy crisis, and how they managed to make them all seem so evil.
It happened that those big utilities were made up of a bunch of little people stockholders who lost a lot of money. Their investment ‘used’ to be quite good, and they were wiped out. And people like you cheered. And when the electricity rate shot up compared to what I pay, you cheered.
Your heart may be in the right place, but people with your line of thinking cause more harm than good.
Wall Street and the Big Business Corporations and Monopolies are in bed with each other . Wall Street roots for anything that benefits Corporations and Global Monopolies . Wall Street sells stocks in Companies and is involved in the lending and other Casino games that revolve around Wall Street ,like credit default swaps . They are tied
to each other and now its gone Global with the financial markets ,(which includes stocks in Corporations).
People on Main street just don’t like it when they don’t get value for the dollar and Corporations end up with the Lions share ,while they struggle . There has been times in American history where the
distribution of the wealth was far better than it’s heading today . This unfair distribution is why CEO’s started getting so much compensation
and it trended toward the American worker getting the shaft .
And the wealth distribution problem got WORSE when the government got involved into trying to fix it. Since this has already failed multiple times, I don’t think government deserves another chance.
Exactly.
They want to get back to the “good old days” of the staggerly wealthy and corrupt ruling over the masses of hopeless poor people. A polluted land of crime and greed beyond all hope - that’s their dream.
“Development continues at or near Fort Riley…….”
Yeah, there was no “bubble” in Kansas, and all those new enlisted soldiers/suckers transferring in from Germany were all going to buy all the “Little Crapshacks on the Prairie” that all the drunk/meth-addicted local construction workforce could throw up. (and “throw up” accurately describes the process).
This assumes, of course, that they haven’t laid off all their illegals.
Want to know how to find a residential construction worker in Kansas? Go to any local bar between 11 and 2pm. Follow the muddy tracks to their table. You can tell how many generations the family has working in the business by how inbred looking the youngest generation looks/acts.
Or you can use them as physical evidence, to prove your theory that Plains Indians f##ked buffalo.
HEY! That’s enough…….
they don’t look like that in Lawrence…Or JO CO mabye…
“With more than 500,000 households in Michigan owing more on their mortgages than the homes are worth, thousands of Michigan residents are choosing to abandon their homes and walk away, even if they can afford to continue making payments.”
That figure makes an interesting comparison to my back-of-the-envelope estimate of 222,000 underwater homes in San Diego County, based on about 600,000 homes with mortgages, 37 percent of which are underwater (according to Chris Thornberg). Perhaps Michigan is in better shape than San Diego County, as even though 500,000 underwater households sounds like a lot, I am pretty sure it is a lower share of the population of Michigan than 37 percent?
The suburbs of Detroit are stabilized by a great many, relatively well off, retired autoworkers. It’s the next generation that will pay when so many those jobs are gone. There are a lot of guys in this town who can take apart a car and put it back together in their sleep, who are now working at odd jobs just to scrape by. Unless this country starts making things other than plywood McMansions, it’s only going to get worse.
“There are a lot of guys in this town who can take apart a car and put it back together in their sleep, who are now working at odd jobs just to scrape by.”
My BIL is one of those guys. He is only marginally employed now, but nonetheless enjoying fat union-sponsored compensation, after 1/4 of a century’s experience on the GM assembly line…not that there is anything wrong with that. Just saying, his is a case in point of stranded (human) capital in the moribund U.S. manufacturing sector.
Cry me a river.
Here you have thousands of unionized autoworkers - many of whom have produced little for decades - and they’re whining about how difficult life is while collecting massive pension checks.
Boo-hoo.
Maybe they should’ve studied rather than played cards all day in the breakrooms of GM.
Now they have nothing to sell and we’re supposed to feel for them.
Well, I don’t.
Incidentally, why don’t they get the heck out of dodge? (They are too fat and happy on their gravy trains to make the move, apparently).
I was raised in downriver Detroit. My autoworker friends have paid-off houses and modest lifestyles. They are content and fine. There’s no need for them to leave. It’s their children who are having a hard time and moving away from Michigan, if they can.
I wonder how many underwater will now take advantage of the Obama walk away program after April5th?
Long time no post but an IL thread.
Here’s a $2.8 mil home in Michigan, 6 hours from Chicago in BFE.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/860-Beach-Rd-Frankfort-MI-49635/2133338031_zpid/
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1299-Crystal-Dr-Frankfort-MI-49635/2138526553_zpid/
$800k not even on Lake Michigan, again, in BFE
Eagle, would you mind explaining what BFE stands for?
Bum **** Egypt.
I’ve been there.
BFE….say….ain’t that where Barry Sotero (AKA PREZ BO) is from?
“I’ve been there.”
It is also known as Duchesne, Utarr; I’ve attended a family reunion there.
Cool prof:
Right near Starvation State park…..wonder how that was named????
LET ME!!!!!!!!!!!
Bum-F…..-Egypt
Aka,”It’s not the end of the Earth, but you can see it from there.”
‘BUM FRICK EGYPT. Slang for ‘middle of nowhere’.
Bu Fu Egpt?
Thank you, fellow HBB-ers, for teaching me something new. I can’t wait to use BFE in a sentence.
You should would probably also like FUBAR and SNAFU
F’d up beyond all recognition
Situation normal all f’d up
And don’t forget FUGAZI.
Language….there’s a lady present.
I can explain the stratospheric prices of those houses. The rich love to flock to northern Michigan in the summer. Detroit, not so much. The Silverdome, built for $55 million more than 30 years ago, sold for $585K earlier this year.
And in my neck of the woods, we’re getting a skyscraper!
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/03/glass-tower-moves-ahead-in-oak-park-despite-criticism.html
oh this is a bad idea on so many levels.
“But trustees noted the recession is easing and the hotel, retail and condo development will be poised to take full advantage of the economic recovery.”
LOL! Good luck with that!
Oak Park’s TIF funds at work!
The Sandusky Register in Ohio. “Foreclosure filings in Ohio set a new record in 2009.
—————–
I guess Tommy Boy Callahan ran Callahan Auto Parts into the ground. So much for happy endings.
Speaking of running things into the ground, that’s exactly what happened here in Tucson with a tire store. Been in business for many moons. Then it ran into trouble.
The daughter of the owners was called out (from NYC investment banking, IIRC) to help out. Turns out that the tire store’s problems were way over her head. But she did sell the company to Goodyear.
And the proceeds from that sale were the seed money to start her political career. She’s now in Congress.
Woman says Bank of America wrongly repossessed home
Bank of America instructed Snyder Property Services to “enter, seize, padlock, ‘winterize’ and take possession” of Ms. Iannelli’s house, the lawsuit said, cutting water lines and electrical wiring, pouring anti-freeze down her drains and “stealing” her pet parrot, Luke.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10068/1041290-54.stm
‘…“stealing” her pet parrot, Luke.’
That’s a charming touch, which I am sure went far towards developing good customer relations. Way to go, Megabank, of America!
Vineyard Defaults Surge as Bargain Wines Hurt Napa
“We went in like blind fools,” Sutherland said. “We didn’t really expect to get the loan, but felt committed when we did.”
Yea, right.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=a07OY80yg4Rs&source=patrick.net
“In most cases so far, HAMP only delays foreclosure; it doesn’t prevent foreclosure. It doesn’t take an economist to realize that the longer it takes for homeowners to get out of mortgages that they can’t afford, the longer the housing crisis will last.”
I’d go so far as to argue that it takes an economist to ignore the fact that that the longer it takes for homeowners to get out of mortgages that they can’t afford, the longer the housing crisis will last.
“Characterizing the Buckeye state as being on the frontline of the housing crisis, Brown noted Ohio ranks sixth in the nation for the total number of homeowners who owe more on their properties than they’re worth.”
Isn’t it interesting how all these bubble states are coming out of the woodwork, now that the bubble has popped and the rescue money is flowing? I can’t recall any discussion of the Ohio real estate bubble circa 2005, can you?
Tentative conclusion: Political entities are far more open to acknowledging their bubble problems now that the hair-of-the-dog cure is being doled out than they were back when the party was in full swing.
I can’t recall any discussion of the Ohio real estate bubble circa 2005, can you?
No, but I cheated. Here’s an Ohio mortgage broker report from 2005 that is commenting on Businessweek’s “After the Housing Boom” article of 2005. Man, it’s a real blast from the past….
The Self-Fulfilling Housing Bubble Prophecy Of 2005
There has been a lot of talk about a housing bubble lately. Business Week even made it their cover story. The funny thing about market bubbles is that they often become self-fulfilling prophecies.
The mere mention of a bubble is enough to spook some buyers from entering a market.
Mention “bubble” to a nervous buyer and inertia sets in. It is much easier to do nothing than to face the risk of buying into a bubble market.
This natural reaction creates a reduction in demand, which causes sellers to lower prices. As sellers lower prices, buyer recognize that the market is softening and begin to wait for further drops in price. Waiting for the “floor” reduces demand further which, again, causes sellers to reduce prices.
The spiral continues downward and the Bubble Prophecy is fulfilled.
With each passing year, though, lenders develop new mortgage products that make homeownership possible for credit types that were previously excluded. This creates a sustained demand by continually introducing new buyers into the marketplace.
To give a real-life example, I can currently lend up to 100% of a home’s value if the borrower has a 575 FICO score or better. 93% of all Americans meet this criterion and many of them are still renting. There is an enormous pool of potential homeowners that are unaware that they can purchase a home.
http://themortgagereports.com/2005/04/housing-bubble-self-fulfilling-prophecy.html
“To give a real-life example, I can currently lend up to 100% of a home’s value if the borrower has a 575 FICO score or better. 93% of all Americans meet this criterion and many of them are still renting. There is an enormous pool of potential homeowners that are unaware that they can purchase a home.”
HAHAHAHAHA!!!
No money down, no job, income, or assets - and you, too, can be owned by a home! Yeah!
Yep… no bubble here! Move along!
It makes me absolutely sick to hear about “hispanics” asking for more in my country. If you live in S.Cal you would know, feel, what I mean. No one owes you brats anything, especially if you were too ignorant to make proper choices. I remained a bitter-renter throughout this BS bubble and I am NOT going to pay for Rosita, Rosanna, Rose-anything-a who lived a life she/he did not deserve and whose ancestors did not fight for.
Why didn’t the Government enforce the immigration laws ? These people were a supplement to business . Of course these people are going to come here to try to improve their income if our Government allows it .
I do agree with you that their ancestors did not fight for all the things that ended up separating America from a lot of Countries ,and I found that to be a interesting point .
I just wonder what second and third generation immigrants are going to be like .
Buy a house with at least 50% down and get a green card…that’s how.
Generally the second and third generation aren’t as hardworking as the first generation. They’re not likely to work as landscapers or janitors like their hardworking parents do. For way too many, life as a gang member is much more appealing. And the studies have shown that the educational achievements by 2nd, 3rd, 4th generations of Hispanic immigrants are abysmal.
They’ll make up the new gangs that will populate the new, suburban ghettos filled with the crumbling McMansions built by their parents. Oh, and those McMansions will still be “valued” at their 2005 peak price on MegaBank’s books, of course!