April 11, 2010

Bits Bucket For April 12, 2010

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365 Comments »

Comment by Happy2bHeard
2010-04-12 01:37:48

Where is everybody?

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-04-12 04:21:24

we are all trying to sleep. keep it down.

Comment by Happy2bHeard
2010-04-12 09:26:08

:)

 
 
Comment by oxide
2010-04-12 04:26:01

Commuting?

 
 
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2010-04-12 01:45:46

“Millions of unemployed may never recover

Despite recent job gains, one grim statistic casts a long shadow over the recovering economy and the futures of more than 6 million workers: Fully 44 percent of the nation’s 15 million unemployed have been out of work for more than six months.”

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2011585797_jobs12.html

“As in previous downturns, a large share of long-term unemployed are in manufacturing and construction.

But most workers who have been jobless for 27 weeks or more are in sales, office and other service-industry jobs, including more than 1 million in management and professional occupations.”

Tech takes a pass on this recession?

“In one prominent study, Columbia University economist Till von Wachter examined the pay history of workers who lost their jobs during the early 1980s recession. Using Social Security earnings records, von Wachter and co-researchers found that these previously stable workers sustained a 20 percent drop in earnings after 10 years of losing their jobs, compared with other workers who weren’t let go during that period.

For the laid-off group, the income losses didn’t fade away completely even 20 years later.”

I wonder how many of them were happy to have a job and afraid to ask for a raise. How much was due to external forces versus internal forces?

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 06:24:04

“I wonder how many of them were happy to have a job and afraid to ask for a raise.”

Plenty of them. Let’s just say this is yet another nail in the housing bubble’s coffin.

Comment by nycjoe
2010-04-12 07:12:41

These had to be the unproductive, the unpopular and the unlucky. Throw it all together and you’d have to get a statistically disadvantaged group, I suppose. There but for the grace of I don’t know what … go the rest of us.

Comment by In Colorado
2010-04-12 07:49:44

“These had to be the unproductive, the unpopular and the unlucky.”

In times like these it pays to have a brown nose.

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Comment by In Montana
2010-04-12 08:17:13

You left out “over 50.”

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Comment by In Colorado
2010-04-12 08:47:32

I’m always amused by the talk of “boomers who won’t retire and free up the good jobs for the young pups”. As if boomers have any choice if they get laid off or not. The school disctrict in Ft. Collins is pushing oldsters out the door to make room for cheaper pups. At first they’re offering them 6 months severance as a carrot to leave voluntarily, but I expect that with time the carrot will be replaced with a stick.

 
Comment by oxide
2010-04-12 09:28:56

Not just cheaper, but healthier.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 10:12:33

The school disctrict in Ft. Collins is pushing oldsters out the door to make room for cheaper pups. At first they’re offering them 6 months severance as a carrot to leave voluntarily, but I expect that with time the carrot will be replaced with a stick.

That happened to my mother back in 1993. State of Pennsylvania passed something called the Mello Bill, and the intent was to get the experienced, high-salaried teachers out of the classroom and into retirement. If you “Mello-ed out,” the understanding was that you’d never take a PA public school job again. (One of Mom’s colleagues later challenged this law. And he won.)

Any-hoo, I’ve mentioned that my mother has what I think is chronic low-grade depression. And, IMHO, it started when she was pushed out of the schoolhouse door.

 
 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 11:51:59

A lot of people I’ve talked to over the last 4 years were making 30% less than they were just 15 years ago.

So not only have J6P’s wages not kept up with inflation, but the paycuts went beyond just hardship to outright disaster.

I guess we’ll just add the new millions who never make it back from the to the previous millions who never made it back and la-di-da.

Comment by In Colorado
2010-04-12 12:44:37

A lot of people I’ve talked to over the last 4 years were making 30% less than they were just 15 years ago.

Raises hand. I am definintely makeing 30% less, adjusted for inflation than just 10 years ago. I guess I wont be:

Buying a 40K SUV
Taking expensive vacations
Buying a bigger house
Buying expensive clothes
Buying a big flat panel TV

Sorry PTB! I can’t buy the stuff you want me to buy.

 
 
 
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2010-04-12 01:54:57

Seems kind of silly to me. Do we really need a law for this? Aren’t there other things for which we really need laws?

“Senator vows to stop airline’s carry-on fee”

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/travel/2011585968_webcarryonfee11.html

If I am charged as much to carry on as to check, I’ll start checking again. And if it gets too expensive, I won’t fly as much. It is already becoming a real hassle. Is this fee-for-everything a sign of an airline industry death spiral?

Comment by Kim
2010-04-12 05:40:39

“Seems kind of silly to me. Do we really need a law for this?”

Actually, we do. And I don’t often agree with Schumer.

Comment by Steve W
2010-04-12 05:47:19

Why do we need a law? If you don’t like the policy, fly someone else, and if enough people don’t like the policy, the airline will lose business and they’ll be forced to change the policy.

Comment by Rental Watch
2010-04-12 08:54:50

Bingo.

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Comment by oxide
2010-04-12 05:56:20

Schumer is a pretty good Senator, but he loves him some brownie points. They say that the most dangerous place in Washington is the space between Chuck Schumer and a TV camera.

I would rather they charge for carry-on luggage than checked luggage, especially for short flights. I get so annoyed watching the passengers play the game of musical overhead bin.

Comment by REhobbyist
2010-04-12 07:54:24

I’m willing to pay to carry on. It’s worth it to avoid lost luggage and the extra time hanging around the luggage carousel.

 
Comment by basura
2010-04-12 08:03:07

Schumer is a pretty good Senator.

Chucky voted for Iraq War and Bank Bailouts. Two of the biggest crimes committed against citizens of this country in last decade IMO. Not to mention, he’s the biggest whore for the WallStreet. If he’s a “good” senator, I would like to know what “bad” senator looks ike?

 
 
Comment by measton
2010-04-12 06:50:17

This is worthless regulation. They should make sure that these fees are displayed when people search for flights.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2010-04-12 06:59:17

Frankly I’m surprised the airlines haven’t greatly reduced the size and volume of their overhead bins to where one can stow little more than a purse or diaper bag. That would force practically everyone to check their luggage.

Uh-oh, maybe I shouldn’t be giving them ideas. :-)

Comment by nycjoe
2010-04-12 07:16:55

Shhhhhhh! I just put half my luggage up there (and under seat) on trip last week! As for the policy, I say nip it in the bud as an abuse. Soon everybody will be charging and fares will be the same across the board. But for now, anybody who flies Spirit is an idiot.

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Comment by pressboardbox
2010-04-12 08:22:46

I’m an idiot and I don’t fly Spirit.

 
Comment by REhobbyist
2010-04-12 08:59:12

:-D

 
 
Comment by Captain Credit Crunch
2010-04-12 07:24:15

I believe there are international standards for carry-on luggage. I recall when purchasing my carry-on the salesperson assured me that I could carry it on to any flight in the world. I think it is something like 20×8x12.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-04-12 07:13:20

Please, this is grandstanding at its best. Pols live for issues like this to latch onto - lotsa “victims” - a “bad guy”.

Meanwhile state and local gov’ts are entering the abyss and property tax levies/millrates will soar.

Oh look, a shiny red ball….

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 11:56:29

So Happy2bHeard, are you saying that airline de-regulation might not have been a good idea?

And if you like being nickel and dimed, just wait to get a load of more aircraft crashes due to inspection and repairs currently being outsourced overseas. Where they are less, uhm, stringent about procedures. FAA approved, of course.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 12:29:58

X-GS Fixer, is that you?

 
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2010-04-12 23:20:11

I didn’t say I like being nickel and dimed. But in this case, legislating seems like overkill.

And it is a real stretch from baggage fees to maintenance. I would much prefer strong regulation and enforcement of maintenance to regulation of baggage fees.

So why isn’t Schumer talking about regulating maintenance and keeping it in this country where we can control it?

 
Comment by jtie
2010-04-13 02:53:07

Amen

 
 
 
Comment by jtie
2010-04-12 01:55:52

sleeping?

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-04-12 08:01:12

Don’t wake up the sheep. They have a busy day of work ahead and bills and payments to take care of. Gotta get home in time for American Idol.

 
 
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2010-04-12 01:58:43

Wow! A 9 year old high rise with structural problems.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011585964_apartments12m.html

“Carpenter’s Tower — owned by Carpenters Union, Local 131 and the Multi-Employer Property Trust — said the problems can be traced to construction. In its news release, the company said load-bearing cable ends have corroded because they weren’t painted properly, and that builders also used the wrong type of grout, which allowed water to seep in.

Carpenter’s Tower sued the contractor, Bellevue’s McCarthy Building Companies, and the Seattle-based Hewitt Architects, in 2007, alleging negligence and failure to adhere to industry standards. McCarthy, a subsidiary of a Missouri company, in turn sued dozens of subcontractors. The court file contains thousands of pages of documents, and is scheduled for trial in September in King County Superior Court.”

Comment by 2banana
2010-04-12 06:29:54

Wonder if they used unions workers to build it :-)

Comment by oxide
2010-04-12 06:39:45

Only if union workers hang out in the parking lots at Lowe’s and Sherwin Williams.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2010-04-12 08:57:40

If the Carpenters Union had anything to do with the financing of its construction (and didn’t buy it complete), I guarantee union labor was used.

Frequently union $ is used to finance construction projects. As a counterbalance to the increased costs due to requiring union workers, often times the $ earns a bit less than free market equity would earn.

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2010-04-12 11:29:01

It will be interesting to see how the finger-pointing plays out.

http://www.thesunbreak.com/2010/04/11/who-killed-belltowns-mcguire-the-cast-of-characters

My nephew used to live in that building.

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2010-04-12 03:05:33

We wrote offers on two houses. One that was asking $250k closed at $247k. Madness.

Comment by Muggy
2010-04-12 03:22:14

BTW, I have made no decision yet. I made a flurry of network calls yesterday and everyone said they’d have a job for me, and possibly a promotion. This is all nuts. I guess if I play the instability correctly I could leapfrog up the ladder, too.

The education bill includes language to reduce pensions, meaning everyone who’s on the fence about retiring would do it to save thousands of dollars. Even if it doesn’t pass, that shot across the bow already has many talking about it.

O.k., off to work! :grin:

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 04:32:13

I owe, I owe, it’s off to work I go…

(Muggy singing merrily after he signs the papers on his new home…)

Comment by JackRussell
2010-04-12 05:39:52

Heh. The wife wants to buy a vacation home at some point in the not too distant future (we own the primary free and clear). But I am in no hurry at all here…

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Comment by Muggy
2010-04-12 06:00:19

And what do you merrily sing as you sign your rent check, or are your housing costs $0.00 / you live in mom’s basement?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 06:25:44

My rent… is cheap,
My racketball is free
My landlord pays our HOA
and I… get sleep…

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 06:26:47

Don’t let my snarky remarks stop you from financially hanging your family’s future prosperity.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 06:28:19

Muggy,

I hope you have not been posting your home purchase plans here in the hopes of getting affirmations? I have none to offer; perhaps other HBB posters think the housing market has bottomed out and Muggy is the smartest guy in the room?

 
Comment by oxide
2010-04-12 06:46:39

The question is not whether the housing market has bottomed out; the question is whether the market has bottomed out enough that the advantages of buying outweigh missing out on any future drops. After all, “you still need to live somewhere.” Maybe the Prof can wait for another 20% — or even time the market precisely to catch the pendulum at its maximum negative swing before it stabilizes — but the Prof is not Muggy.

My huge concern is — and always has been — job security.

 
Comment by Natalie
2010-04-12 06:59:21

“perhaps other HBB posters think the housing market has bottomed out and Muggy is the smartest guy in the room?”

I don’t remember Muggy saying he was intending to flip. Many of you guys were also telling everyone to stay away from stocks. The only regret I have in not following all of the advice here and buying anyway was that I would have made another 5% if I didn’t sell during the last two weeks. :(. Hell even I think we need a 15% correction now and hope to buy back in at lower prices, but not all of us are frozen in fear. Some see doom, others spot opportunities. I am not saying its a great time to buy in all areas, but in some areas and the right facts, it is not foolish and might actually be the best decision.

 
Comment by SV guy
2010-04-12 07:04:40

In Muggy’s defense, paying rent is a dead end game. I’m sure this will rile up some of you. You limit your exposure and shouldn’t have to deal with maintenance issues. Let’s say you buy a place and it drops in value $24,000. Not something you’d wish for certainly. But one year rental payments at $2,000 per month is the same amount out the window, guaranteed. Yes an owner would incur mortgage, taxes, maintenance, & insurance costs. This could be a significant sum. Renting is a long term strategy I wouldn’t employ.

With that being said, this isn’t an endorsement to grossly overpay for something. Muggy, you are in Florida I believe. I know the property tax code is weighted in full time residents favor. But taxes are the wildcard in this equation.

My point is this. All purchases are not bad just as all renting is not bad.

 
Comment by exeter
2010-04-12 07:04:52

My own personal measure is this; The price I’m willing to pay for a house is equal to the price at which I could confidently sell to a buyer *tomorrow*.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:08:41

“The question is not whether the housing market has bottomed out; the question is whether the market has bottomed out enough that the advantages of buying outweigh missing out on any future drops.”

I will lay out Muggy’s worst case scenario:

1) He buys a home.

2) Turns out the FL market has another 30 percent leg down ahead (”no one could have seen it coming,” etc),

3) Five years down the road, his job still sucks and he can’t stand it any more.

4) Turns out he is stucco with a 30 percent loss and has to wait another decade before he can sell his home for what he paid.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:12:15

“I don’t remember Muggy saying he was intending to flip.”

On the contrary, I thought his plan was to buy a home and settle in nearby his secure job.

Is my memory fading, or was it just a couple of days ago that he posted about how he could barely stand his position any more and was contemplating a move? Am I confusing this homebuyer Muggy with another Muggy that occasionally posts here?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:13:44

“I am not saying its a great time to buy in all areas,…”

Natalie, you aren’t per chance a UHS, are you?

 
Comment by packman
2010-04-12 07:15:03

Totally depends on where we are in the housing price cycle (as it were).

Under normal conditions - housing prices rising at the rate of inflation - then renting is generally slightly less prudent than buying; if one could afford to buy. Only slightly less.

Other big factor of course is time. If you’re not someone that has much spare time to do maintenance (including things like yard word), then even in normal times it can be more financially prudent to rent, because if you bought you’d be paying big $$ for these things - it grossly affects the equation.

In times of price declines (e.g. 2007-2009) it’s always more prudent - financially - to rent.

The big question then is whether the coming couple of years will see price declines or not, relative to inflation.

Notes:
1. I say this as a homeowner
2. This is excluding the hard-to-quantify factors like just the security if owning your own home; e.g. if you’re a renter - worrying about your landlord going bankrupt, or if you’re an owner - worrying about your job. It also excludes the factor of desire to work on your home (which is big for me actually - e.g. I’m currently enjoying working on a pond/waterfall creation - seriously, I love that kind of stuff).

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:26:41

Who ever said all purchases are bad? We have already owned and sold two homes during the course of our marriage (sold ‘em both at a profit, I might add). But now is most likely not the time to buy, unless you are in a place like Detroit where prices have pretty much bottomed out…

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:32:52

To figure out whether now is a good time to buy, you might answer for yourself the following questions:

1) Is the government going to continue its price support program indefinitely going forward?

2a) If your answer to 1) is “Yes,” given that the pulling out all the stops has barely resulted in stopping the price declines, do you believe the government will be able to indefinitely stem further price declines until the economy (and housing demand) fully recovers?

2b) If your answer to 1) is “No,” do you believe prices will be somehow supported by fundamentals after the government withdraws their support.

Given that the Fed has already announced the end to MBS purchases and the $8K credit is about to expire, my own subjective beliefs lean slightly in the direction of the 2b) scenario.

 
Comment by Natalie
2010-04-12 07:33:43

“Natalie, you aren’t per chance a UHS, are you?” What is that?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:37:04

“What is that?”

If you have to ask, you probably are one. ;-)

 
Comment by packman
2010-04-12 07:38:23

Agree - just yesterday a renter friend mentioned he was losing his roommate, and thinking about buying. I told him he’d be best off waiting for at least another year; that prices were most likely due for another leg down due to rising interest rates and tax credit expiry. Hopefully he’ll take heed.

(He’s not a do-it-yourselfer - was looking at it strictly from a cost perspective)

 
Comment by oxide
2010-04-12 07:38:40

In Muggy’s defense, paying rent is a dead end game. I’m sure this will rile up some of you.

No, SVguy, you’re right. What riles me up is that the war on savers has been so successful that renting, dead end as it is, is the least evil option.

Gee gosh it would be nice to have bought a house ten years ago and stayed in it, with no equity games. But we aren’t all the same age. It took me a little longer to establish myself (if you could call it that), and since then all I could do was watch the housing market price me out. And the government, held hostage by banks on one side and by FB’s who “need to stay in their homes” on the other side, continues to price me out. And the employment climate is the exact opposite of what it should be for settling down anyway.

Renting is all we have..

 
Comment by In Colorado
2010-04-12 07:56:01

“Natalie, you aren’t per chance a UHS, are you?” What is that?

Used House Seller - a Realtor

 
Comment by pressboardbox
2010-04-12 08:03:06

Ha! Professor Bear is still “throwing money” every month on rent. What a fool.

 
Comment by REhobbyist
2010-04-12 08:03:36

PBear should not buy a house because he lives in San Diego and it’s just too expensive.

I’ll give Muggy the benefit of the doubt. He’s a thoughtful, smart guy who does his homework. I agree that taxes are the bugaboo in Florida, more so than house prices. And I really enjoy his posts. So keep posting, Muggy!

And, no, Natalie is not a used house salesman, PBear. She is a woman of means who can afford to buy if she wants, and is unlikely to make decisions detrimental to her bottom line.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2010-04-12 09:28:50

REhobbyist,

How’s the Sacramento market?

 
Comment by james
2010-04-12 09:46:37

Also have to be concerned because Florida is a recourse state too.

The usual rules are can you afford this on one income and could you afford the transaction costs and losses if your job goes away?

How much saving do you have set aside in terms of months of living expenses?

 
Comment by REhobbyist
2010-04-12 15:31:44

Hi SFGirl. Sacramento has lots of foreclosures coming on line. Almost without exception they are more expensive than the many short sales. They are also in better shape than last year’s foreclosures - the banks clean, paint, and carpet them now. The cheapest areas like Meadowview, Fruitridge, Oak Park, Del Paso sell for less than $100K. Investors buy these places to flip or rent. Houses in middling places like Natomas, Elk Grove, West Sacramento are selling at 2001-2002 prices. Higher end areas like downtown, East Sacramento, Carmichael, Land Park are very slow, and if a nice house appears priced 10% below the others it sells quickly. High end areas are asking $250-300/sq ft but $200 sells.

 
 
 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-04-12 11:08:43

Muggy,
The Agoura Hills and Culver City suggestions might work. Culver City is very close to Santa Monica. Fly out and check all the suggestions first before you’d move. Have lunch at Versailles Cuban restaurant on Venice Blvd. after checking out Culver City. I lived in LA from 86-94. Lakers, Reagan retiring home, housing bubble 1, defense Industry implosion, recession, riots, OJ, Northridge earthquake, great beaches and some good times.

I was reading today about Guns n’ Roses crazy shows and no shows tour in Brazil a few weeks ago and remember you mentioning Guns n Roses of the 80’s once.

I remember seeing them in 1989 open up for the Rolling Stones at the LA Coliseum and it was crazy. Axl Rose fell offstage and made speech about One in a Million and lectured his band about heroin before Mr. Brownstone. I just found the audio of his “speeches” on youtube. Funny. I couldn’t remember the exact year so I googled it and one site said this about that night.

G&R BEST TOUR 1989, including two nights opening for the Rolling Stones at the Los Angeles Coliseum, where Axl Rose fell offstage, raged against G n’ R drug use, threatened to quit and was called a racist by Living Colour. And, yes, they also rocked.

The Stones also rocked right after G&R.
Good luck.

Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 12:01:34

2 things I hate the most: LA and Runny Noses, er, Guns & Roses. :lol:

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Comment by CarrieAnn
2010-04-12 03:24:50

We had made an offer on a home a while back but backed out upon inspection. The buyer that took the house w/in days paid $15k more than our price before we found the deal killing problem. hahahahahaa.

That owner must’ve thought that inspection was the best thing to happen to him. Also a less expensive but more dangerous situation has never been taken care of. You can see it on the outside of the house (electrical) Of course, when the fire hits it will be an “accident”.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2010-04-12 07:03:12

CarrieAnn, you may want to send a copy of that inspection report to the buyer, even if it’s after he becomes the FB and moves in. Most states have disclosure laws and if you made the seller aware of the problem(s) in the report and he didn’t disclose, the FB could have recourse.

Comment by REhobbyist
2010-04-12 08:04:51

I like that idea, Bill. Help those FB idiots out, Carrie!

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Comment by CarrieAnn
2010-04-12 11:04:54

The inspector made it very clear to us if he wrote the inspection report in a way that was detrimental to the completion of the sale he would eventually end up w/no work. What happened is my husband, a former builder, was there during the inspection and knew how serious the problems were. The inspector did not tell us we did the right thing until after the deal was completely dead.

So my point is you really have to understand what the findings mean to know you’ve got a problem. For all we know, the 2nd buyers saw the report. The SOLD sign was hanging on there so soon after we backed out I really doubt they did their own inspection. That’s their mistake. Besides we have mutual friends and it would look like sour grapes if I desparaged a home they are reportedly so happy to be in.

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Comment by Nychk
2010-04-12 19:48:02

“The inspector did not tell us we did the right thing until after the deal was completely dead.”

That’s very scary. So what can those of us without former-builder-husbands do? If one can’t trust the inspector to explain his findings in full and graphic details… :-(

 
 
 
 
Comment by Bad Chile
2010-04-12 03:28:47

It is one thing to read about the madness in the MSM, another thing to experience it first-hand. Sorry to hear about the madness, Muggy, we’re here for you at the HBB.

I’d also say wait until the tax credit expires - I’m hearing stories from the relatives trying to sell that buyers are throwing offers at every single house, hoping one sticks. Things will definitely slow down in May if the word on the street is any indication of relatity.

(Of course, who knows what the Banana Republic politicians in D.C. will come up with next, as such, my advice should probably not be followed.)

Comment by REhobbyist
2010-04-12 08:08:08

I’m helping a young person from out of state find a house next week. He owns in his state, and isn’t eligible for the tax credit. If our low offers are rejected I’ll encourage him to wait until after April 30. Hopefully it will save him some money.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 04:27:23

Why are you out there competing with people armed with Uncle Sam’s subprime loans? If I were a gambling man (and I guess I am), then I would bet that Uncle Sam’s subprime lending program will not prove sustainable given other fiscal and monetary policy priorities over the next decade.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 04:29:23

For clarification, by “subprime lending program,” I mean programs which, through the subsidy elements in their design, attract worse-than-average credit quality borrowers who could not find similar deals in the private lending sector, as no private sector would be foolish enough to deliberately throw money down a rat hole.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 04:31:02

“…no private sector lender would be foolish enough to deliberately throw money down a rat hole.”

Sorry — in my rage I omitted an important word there. And I WAS definitely being facetious.

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Comment by oxide
2010-04-12 04:38:36

We savers with real cash have been competing with people armed with Uncle Sam’s subprime loans. And they wonder why the Smart Money is still “on the fence.” :roll:

We savers with real cash have been competing with people armed with the Mastercard version of minimum payment extend-and-pretend for 40 years, which is why the cash-only lifestyle of our grandparents is no longer possible.

And all laborers with who earn “real” money (i.e. labor wages) have been competing with banks who invent fake money via a pathway of ninja loan–>juicy fees–>oopsie–>Uncle Sam printing-press bailout. Has anyone really sat down and calculated how many hours of real labor all this poofmoney represents?

This whole credit-based economy sucks. Every day they grow stronger while every day we grow weaker. We’ll never catch up.

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-04-12 05:49:05

Wait until hyperinflation if you want to feel you got screwed by saving cash responsibly.

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Comment by oxide
2010-04-12 05:58:45

And thank you for that depressing thought this fine morning. :-) I had been hoping that this idiot credit bubble already was the inflation, but I guess not.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2010-04-12 06:24:23

If you opt out of the system, it doesn’t really matter that much.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 06:40:17

If Muggy gets lucky, perhaps temporary hyperinflation will ensue the day he signs his mortgage loan papers. I can’t rule this “screw the creditors” scenario out as a possible remedy for unrepayable debt burdens at so many levels. Fool me once, shame on you… fool me twice, shame on me.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:14:59

“Every day they grow stronger while every day we grow weaker. We’ll never catch up.”

Tell that to a home debtor who can no longer afford his monthly and is facing foreclosure.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-04-12 07:48:18

No way. We all make choices and we can choose alternatives. If being right meant being popular we would all be living in paradise.

“…the cash-only lifestyle of our grandparents is no longer possible…”

Grandma and grandpa didn’t know they were entering a period of peace and prosperity without parallel in human history when they were saving pennies and old string.

Behavior today is the exact opposite, the world grandma and grandpa could never fully trust has become an absolute expectation/entitlement for their progeny.

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Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 14:17:16

“…the world grandma and grandpa could never fully trust has become an absolute expectation/entitlement for their progeny.”

POTD

 
 
Comment by cactus
2010-04-12 14:04:34

And all laborers with who earn “real” money (i.e. labor wages) have been competing with banks who invent fake money ”

yep its impossible and that’s why we had bubble No. 1 housing

why work when you can borrow ? Now we need a new way to live large because working alone won’t do it for most Americans.

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Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 14:20:19

If you could borrow at 10% and reinvest at 22% you would be stupid not to.

The trick is finding and keeping that 22% and getting out before it drops to 9%.

I don’t think it’s a great system and I sure can’t afford to play, but that doesn’t change reality.

 
 
 
Comment by Muggy
2010-04-12 06:19:20

“Why are you out there competing with people armed with Uncle Sam’s subprime loans?”

Your single-track mind, and unwillingness to chew on all of the facts, is growing most tiresome.

I am out there competing because my children deserve to live on a street that is not as busy as the one where I am now, so they can play safely. As misfortune would have it, there are no 3/2s in suitable neighborhoods that are more affordable than owning.

Now is the time on schprockets ven we donce.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 06:29:58

Muggy the housing bull? You go, boy! What kind of koolaide did your UHS give you to drink, anyway?

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Comment by Kim
2010-04-12 07:36:50

PB, why so bitter lately?

Muggy, I sympathize with you. In fact, I think we’re in the same boat. For us, continuing to rent much longer will soon mean risking frequent changes of schools for our young daughter. The population concentration is such that if we had to change rentals and move 1/2 mile in any direction, DD could end up assigned to a different school. Private elementary school isn’t an option because the only secular private school anywhere near us costs $16K/year.

No, I don’t think the housing market has bottomed out at all. DH and I love the freedom of renting, but circumstances change, its not just about us anymore, so we too can see ourselves under contract by summers end.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:49:24

I’m not bitter. How does pointing out Muggy’s folly equate with bitterness in your mind?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:59:42

“…why so bitter lately?”

Bubble-era thinking: Anyone who disagrees that buying is best must be a bitter, priced-out renter.

 
Comment by Kim
2010-04-12 08:03:43

“I’m not bitter. How does pointing out Muggy’s folly equate with bitterness in your mind?”

Maybe not bitter, but you’ve definitely been cranky. This week its Muggy, last week it was Catholics.

 
Comment by Dale
2010-04-12 08:45:05

“PB, why so bitter lately?”

…..think of it as “tough love”. Someday you will thank him for it!!!

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2010-04-12 08:51:45

Muggy, I sympathize with you. In fact, I think we’re in the same boat. For us, continuing to rent much longer will soon mean risking frequent changes of schools for our young daughter.

I sympathize with Muggy’s situation, to. But in our case, buying within the city is a major issue, one that won’t go away.

We don’t trust the Chicago Public School system, and we don’t have the political clout or insider knowledge to play the my-kid-is-guaranteed-a-good-spot game. There are many good private schools in the city, but some are prohibitively expensive, some have wait-lists, and some don’t align with our values.

So we’ll be hesitant to buy within the city even if the prices begin to look reasonable — unless we have some piece of mind on the school issue. Renting also gives us the flexibility to head to a smaller city (Minneapolis, Austin) or college town (Madison, Bloomington, IN) where we think we could navigate these issues a little better.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 14:24:27

There are still deals out there but you have to look long and hard. And we’ve discussed here, there is nothing wrong with buying to own for personal reasons as long as you understand the current conditions.

The last time I bought a house my mortgage (and in fact the TCO) was less than an apt. But I spent 2 years shopping for just the right deal.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 14:58:09

You win, ecofeco. I only spent a year and a half looking for my house.

And that was during the infamous bubble period of 2003-2004. Took that long to find something for which I wouldn’t be overpaying.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 23:21:19

“Maybe not bitter, but you’ve definitely been cranky.”

D’ya think working 30 hours over the weekend on maybe 18 hours total sleep could explain it?

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 06:31:03

“I am out there competing because my children deserve to live on a street that is not as busy as the one where I am now, so they can play safely.”

You definitely deserve to own a home in a nice neighborhood. Go for it!

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Comment by michael
2010-04-12 06:50:45

deserve is one of those words…like hope…and change.

 
Comment by oxide
2010-04-12 06:51:02

Dude, did you spike your coffee with Red Bull or something morning? Slow down and have a smoothie.

 
Comment by Muggy
2010-04-12 13:38:22

“You definitely deserve to own a home in a nice neighborhood. Go for it!”

My children deserve a nice neighborhood, rental or not. Yes,
D E S E R V E

Are you nuts?

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2010-04-12 14:26:56

My children deserve a nice neighborhood, rental or not. Yes,
D E S E R V E

Deserve’s got nothing to do with it.

 
Comment by packman
2010-04-12 14:33:05

Deserve’s got nothing to do with it.

Zing!

(One of the best movie lines ever, IMO. And something we all need to remember.)

 
Comment by james
2010-04-12 14:59:48

I’ll see you in hell Will Munny…

Ah… good ole sense of entitlement.

Occasionaly I need Ben to slap me out of my sense of victimhood.

Plan on visiting my congresscritter and giving her an earful.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:18:29

“Your single-track mind,…”

Listen to the black kettle talk about the pot. All you ever post about here is how you feel compelled to buy because you cannot stand to rent. Don’t you think many others are feeling similarly squeezed out of renting and into owning? The time to buy is when most everyone else either prefers or has to rent; we’re not there yet.

Buy when everyone else is selling;
sell when everyone else is buying.

–J P Morgan–

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Comment by Happy2bHeard
2010-04-12 09:57:31

A house is not a financial instrument. I would not buy or sell one based solely on the market.

I would be more concerned about being stucco if my job goes away than whether or not the market has bottomed.

 
Comment by packman
2010-04-12 10:26:53

A house is not a financial instrument. I would not buy or sell one based solely on the market.

Tell that to the millions of people who bought in the 2003-2006 timeframe, with the full intention of staying in their home forever, but now after losing their job or the like face the prospect of a shattered credit record since they don’t have enough cash to bring to the table to sell it, and therefore have no choice but to walk away. The market should have prevented them from buying, but they didn’t pay enough attention.

I would be more concerned about being stucco if my job goes away than whether or not the market has bottomed.

At this point I would agree, since if the market hasn’t bottomed we’re probably close enough that potential equity loss is (probably) outweighed by potential job loss.

 
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2010-04-12 23:35:13

One of the reasons I haven’t bought is that I haven’t felt that my circumstances are stable enough to commit to pay 30 years on a loan.

And I worry when my car needs maintenance. Multiply that times 10 for the potential maintenance issues on a house.

On the other hand, my sister and her husband bought in the early 90s and probably pay half of my rent on their mortgage. Inflation is the debtor’s friend.

 
 
Comment by nycjoe
2010-04-12 07:24:46

I understand Muggy’s predicament! Also trying to hold out another year, as signs grow that interest rates finally will head up, feds halt buying bad mortgages, REOs and short sales on rise … some good news at last. But if you’re in Fla., maybe now is a good enough time. Not around NYC, though. Unless you’re a born sucker.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:38:50

“But if you’re in Fla., maybe now is a good enough time.”

Given all the bid wars at price levels around $250K, that surely must be the case…

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2010-04-12 14:52:59

nycjoe:

I’m still figuring out how people about 5-6 people who bought 2 fam houses here in queens for $749K at the peak can still pay the bills each month? Anything over $400-450K wont cash flow.

I know at least 2 hired the local handyman to create an illegal 3rd apartment….but even with that income they are probably still not meeting the bills.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Lane from s.c.
2010-04-12 05:39:16

Muggy…you are in that sweet spot for housing. 2-300,000 price range. I see the same here…that price range is stable while the very low and very high are way down…like 20-50% down. The other market that has been hit hard is the second home market…those seem to be way off. You are in that price range where most people have their head screwed on straight.

Lane

Comment by In Montana
2010-04-12 06:28:13

still too much IMO

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2010-04-12 06:49:46

Yes, the 2-3x income niche is in high demand. The historically conservative types are still shopping there but now we also have to compete w/all the new converts who are fleeing their McMansions in droves. Unfortunately this town is chock full of McMansions w/far less of the homes in the affordable range to go around for all who demand it.

Comment by mikey
2010-04-12 16:57:37

I see a another problem here in Wisconsin with property taxes and mil rates.

Even some of these used POS in the 200- 300k range are pushing the 6-7k in property taxes in areas with cities and municipalities up to their ears in debts.

The new buyer is gonna have to find a new and improved bigger fool when they intend to sell.

“I see dumb people…and tax pits”

:(

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Comment by Blue Skye
2010-04-12 06:51:19

$300K.
Sweet Spot.
Six times median income.

Wow.
Party on.

Comment by exeter
2010-04-12 07:17:23

Nuts.

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Comment by potential buyer
2010-04-12 11:18:58

I could only wish for a $200-$00 range!

 
 
Comment by rms
2010-04-12 07:18:51

“Six times median income.”

+1 Too high.

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Comment by Captain Credit Crunch
2010-04-12 07:32:00

Doesn’t really matter whether it’s 6x median income. All that matters is whether it’s 6x the income of the people buying those houses. Perhaps the only people buying are dinks making 100k per year. Then we’re at 3x.

 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-04-12 07:32:31

Agreed. The knifecatcher zone.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2010-04-12 07:38:01

Debt prison built for two.

 
Comment by packman
2010-04-12 07:43:45

Doesn’t really matter whether it’s 6x median income. All that matters is whether it’s 6x the income of the people buying those houses. Perhaps the only people buying are dinks making 100k per year. Then we’re at 3x.

Being that the homeownership rate is 67% - if the only people buying are dinks making $100k per year - doesn’t this mean that prices will be subsequently coming down quite a bit, in order for the rest of the 67% (most of which making under $100k) to start being able to afford a house?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:47:49

“The knifecatcher zone.”

The future foreclosure zone, too.

 
Comment by Captain Credit Crunch
2010-04-12 08:02:27

@packman

Sure. I would expect that prices would have to come down all around by the pigeon-hole principle (more houses than buyers at all price levels), but I only look at the above at an affordability viewpoint. I am also not suggesting that every single buyer has comfortable income to support it. But I do think it’s useful to stop crowing about Y times median income when we’re not necessarily talking about the median home. Who knows what these $200-300k homes are. They could be high end or low end, too.

 
Comment by In Montana
2010-04-12 08:36:21

People have simply become accustomed to thinking of 200K as “low end” based only on recent history, incomes and equivalent rents be damned. The UHS sector counts on us thinking that way.

That’s why I say, rediscover sticker shock.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 10:21:05

Thank you, In Montana.

A couple of summers ago, I was taking an Adobe Illustrator class at a studio just south of Downtown Tucson. That would be the Armory Park nabe.

Any-hoo, just up the street from the designer’s studio was/is the Armory Park del Sol infill development. It’s one of those places that is so green that the rest of us are supposed to turn green with envy.

But what horrified my designer/instructor was the price of those places. He said, “They’re a quarter of a million dollars!” (The emphasis was his.)

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-04-12 10:35:45

Wow….a bunch of “hate-a”s on here today :)

I’ll take some of the heat off you, Muggy.

I’m going to buy a NEW CAR……Something US-made. Probably a Dodge. With a big V-8 engine that sucks gas. And I’m going to park it outside.

Flame on……. :)

 
Comment by mikey
2010-04-12 17:06:09

Hold brakes…check

After burner ignition on…check

Move to Full Power…

Release…

“Dodge All Mighty…On the Way !”

;)

 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2010-04-12 11:19:30

Ok, I’ll give 6x where you are, but its 3x in mine……$72k median income is in the $2 -$300k range even if it is just by a toehold. ;) But truth be told we’re above that median income point and I’ve got a feeling at least some of our competitors are too. When the Volvos and Mercedes are slowing down to look at the same home we’re checking out, we always say, “Oh crap” and start laughing. We then feel nostalgic for when they wouldn’t have been caught dead looking at our neighborhoods.

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Comment by exeter
2010-04-12 07:16:12

And what do you think is going to happen to the 200-300k range when the 300-600k range falls 50% as you indicate?

Montana is dead on correct. 200k is still grossly inflated.

Folks, all these price declines are obscured by the REIC driven median price bull$hit. Ok… so the median price has only fallen by roughly 30% but take a look at what you’re getting for the median today as compared to that same price in 2005. It’s worlds apart. So what do you think is going to happen to prices on the bottom of the price structure when the upper level prices fall to the middle level prices?? There is serious price compression going on and I’m in agreement that Muggy is likely paying a grossly inflated amount. I’d be willing to wager his prospective house will fall in price much much further but the REIC will say “the median price has only fallen _% since 2010. The REIC maybe correct but they conveniently neglect to tell the entire story.

Comment by REhobbyist
2010-04-12 08:16:26

Except that the reason Muggy is frustrated is that he is offering $220K or less and the houses are being bought for $250K. He’s not drinking the Koolaid. All the other drinkers are making him crazy. Hang in there, Muggy. Keep making low offers and I guarantee that one will stick.

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Comment by cobaltblue
2010-04-12 08:41:23

“Folks, all these price declines are obscured by the REIC driven median price bull$hit.”

Everyone please note that the esteemed gentleman from the Granite State and cobaItblue completely agree (on this point).

Another example of the unique and indispensible value of the HBB! Remember to support Ben with a donation as often and generously as you can! The best spot on the blogosphere!

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2010-04-12 09:35:21

See hell does unfreeze once in awhile ;)

 
Comment by cobaltblue
2010-04-12 10:27:44

“See hell does unfreeze once in awhile”

Sure does. People tend to have had different experiences and results in life which translates into them placing different values on certain things, points of view, philosophies, political leanings, etc. Sometimes everyone seems to agree about something, as in 2004 and “real estate only goes up”. The first people to publicly question this and assert that prices were going to fall, were ridiculed and dismissed as not knowing what the “crowd” knew. It’s times like that when the crowd, the majority, can be drastically wrong. That’s why I really appreciate this blog of Ben’s, as everyone gets to hear about timely personal firsthand experiences as well as opinions, and if they choose to, everyone can benefit. Personal attacks are fairly rare here, as people try to cite real-life examples to back up their opinions and most of us here have seen the prevailing point of views about real estate and economics, for example, completely change as new evidence filtered in.
Many have contributed to make this a very valuable spot on the internet and I thank them for doing it and I thank Ben for creating it.
You have a great personality SF Gal and the best of good fortune in everything you set out to do. Always great to hear from you!

 
Comment by exeter
2010-04-12 12:25:23

I have no problem setting aside my own public policy theology to advance the cause of the housing price collapse. We all found this blog for one common reason. All else is secondary.

 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2010-04-12 11:31:53

I’ve been spending a lot of time thinking about this and waiting for the collapse of the $500 and above ranges which are really bloated. One sickening thought I had was the realization that in my New England hometown where things were really nutty for a while, they just turned all the beautiful Victorians into condexes and condos. Ugh! So young families still aren’t in houses. They own but it feels remarkably like an apt w/no yard to call their own and neighbors on the other side of the wall. Not harping on condos. Just saying they basically took all the big homes out of circulation, chopped them up and still per sq ft asked an exhorbitant price. I wondered if that is the future for our soon to be white elephants.

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Comment by Lane from s.c.
2010-04-12 16:31:37

Part of the reason this price range works so well is at 5% intrest a $190,000 comes out to about $1000 a month….thats apartment rent.

Lane

I agree with most people on here, but if you own right its not a bad deal.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:19:56

“Muggy…you are in that sweet spot for housing. 2-300,000 price range.”

That’s the same ’sweet spot’ where all the other $8K tax credit koolaide drinkers are, which explains why there are bid wars and no inventory in your price range.

Comment by mikeinbend
2010-04-12 11:32:58

Buying our toe tag house, closing Thursday, for $117k. Gonna rent it out short term, while we await foreclosure on my wife’s house. Have tons of interest on the new home for $825/month. It is in a great neighborhood, and our mortgage will be $0. I’m thinking it cash flows…but not necessarily enough to keep paying the premium on our 400k home that is now worth half that.

My wife just got a new PT job, ten bucks an hour, hopefully it will eventually lead to benefits, it is with the school district, but not enough hours for bennies just yet. And I can keep substitute teaching at $20/hour, so the price we pay for house will be approx 3x income, albeit sans mortgage. Other home is 12x income (prolly not sustainable), too bad cuz we were going to pay this house off and stay forever, not just how long the bank lets us stay. But the market changed as did our financial and housing plans.
Decision made, no turning back.

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Comment by cactus
2010-04-12 14:09:47

buy ‘n bail not a bad strategy IMO

this was done often in the 1990’s in CA during the Aerospace bust

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 14:30:25

Rule number one in renting: screen your tenants VERY thoroughly.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 14:33:57

A good rule of thumb (and yes, it’s just a crude guide) is look at the condition of their car. Not the year or make, but condition.

Second, talk to them personally.

And of course credit checks and personal references.

Nobody is perfect, but you can eliminate most problems by paying close attention.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 14:59:51

In case anyone’s interested, Leigh Robinson’s book, Landlording, has a lot of good tenant screening advice.

 
Comment by shizo
2010-04-12 17:24:16

Eco,
Your crude standard would be an epic fail in my case. I bought a beat up 2001 Subaru Outback with dents on every panel. It is a salvage vehicle, and I got it CHEAP (cash talks-thanks combo!), less than 1/2 of used. Not one dent from me and low miles. Every landlord I’ve had was sorry to see us go… many offered incentives to stay. Never late on rent and usually left the place in nicer condition than when contracted. Sorry, car has zero to do with it IMO. In fact, the owners in my neighborhood say I take better care of the house than the owner next door. I live in a dated pretty exclusive neighborhood. The only reason I’d leave here is IF I could afford a nice area for what i make (2x the median) or find one that is more efficient in a nice area. One rental came up around the corner- I was one day late (& a $ short- had to put that in). At this point in the game I’ll pay more in heat for the neighborhood I feel comfortable leaving my doors unlocked- heck, I leave them wide open sometimes. Like I said nice area. One way in & out and everyone knows one another. Many lifers here don’t know this spot and I live 2 minutes from town (if that- we have city water).

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 20:05:19

As I said, it’s crude and of course there are exceptions.

But in your average day to day business, exceptions are often not worth pursuing.

 
Comment by Shizo
2010-04-14 12:33:23

I’ll give you that ! :)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Bad Chile
2010-04-12 03:13:07

Present and accounted for, sir.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2010-04-12 07:07:06

Actually, it’s all present or accounted for, Sir! :-)

 
Comment by mikey
2010-04-12 17:22:50

Counting….Hey!!

Where’s HBB 2nd squad on the cammo detail ?”

:)

Comment by Carl Morris
2010-04-13 09:29:25

Look busy guys, Top’s coming this way.

 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-04-12 04:17:20

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/simon-johnson/greece-saved-for-now-is-p_b_533533.html

Crisis in Greece “contained” for perhaps a few more weeks or months. The MSM will tout this as “recovery” and urge more debt-fueled consumerism on behalf of their corporate pimps.

Only the trouble just keeps percolating up from the PIIGS. Now attention is turning to Portugal. Since the EU just rewarded political and fiscal irresponsibility, lets see how long it takes for new rumblings of default to shake the EU.

Comment by Mike in Miami
2010-04-12 05:57:30

No deadbeat left behind! I am sure that besides Portugal and Spain we’ll have various states like Clownifornia and Illinois come begging for “credits”. Ever since the Lehman incident no deadbeat will be allowed to fail. So why be fiscally prudent and get screwed when you can party like there’s no tomorrow and get paid for it?

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 06:38:20

I still anticipate the day when California’s bailout package is announced…

Comment by rms
2010-04-12 07:22:09

Maybe the PBGC will take over CalPERS and CalSTRS at $0.60 on the dollar?

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Comment by polly
2010-04-12 10:47:22

Do CALPERS and CALSTRS have enough money to cover $0.60 on the dollar? ‘Cause I dont’ think PBGC has anywhere near enough to cover much deficit for systems that large.

 
Comment by rms
2010-04-12 11:56:41

I was thinking of the retired B-747 and DC-10 captains who got downsized after 9/11. It was a huge hit.

 
 
Comment by nycjoe
2010-04-12 07:28:07

And Arizona’s set to sell herself off to Mythic Corp.???

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 10:23:15

That was a joke, Joe. Tucson Weekly’s April 1 issue.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:40:53

I don’t believe the PBGC covers public plans, but please correct me if I am wrong on this…

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Comment by packman
2010-04-12 07:48:56

I don’t believe the PBGC covers public plans, but please correct me if I am wrong on this…

Good question. Per Wiki it appears you are correct:

The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (or PBGC) is an independent agency of the United States government that was created by the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (ERISA) to encourage the continuation and maintenance of voluntary private defined benefit pension plans, provide timely and uninterrupted payment of pension benefits, and keep pension insurance premiums at the lowest level necessary to carry out its operations.

Which makes sense, since public pensions are supported (in theory) by taxing power, thus (in theory) wouldn’t ever require bailouts - the pension provider could just raise taxes if it was short of funds; a luxury companies don’t have.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 08:01:41

“…the pension provider could just raise taxes if it was short of funds; a luxury companies don’t have.”

I recently saw somewhere in print an estimate of the CA pension deficit at $500,000,000,000. Not sure whether that is right, but if it were (hypothetically) true, could taxation really plug the gap?

 
Comment by packman
2010-04-12 08:22:00

but if it were (hypothetically) true, could taxation really plug the gap?

Not just no, but h#ll no.

That’s why I included the “in theory” caveats, of course.

That’s why I think big inflation is a-comin’, at some point down the road. That’s the only feasible way to get these debts under control without inciting revolution.

 
Comment by REhobbyist
2010-04-12 08:23:08

That number came out of Stanford. The expected reaction was denial. I think we have to get through anger and resignation, but 500 billion should help move things along. I’m going to take a lump sum when I retire from UC - defined benefit pensions must certainly take a hit. And maybe I should retire soon!

http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/retirement-242888-state-pension.html

 
Comment by polly
2010-04-12 10:51:28

Inflation won’t cover the unfunded pension obligations if those pensions are adjusted for inflation. Is is true that the people who are retired on the CA pension system get their monthly take set at retirement and never get a COLA after that?

Yes, manipulated inflation numbers can make the COLAs too small to really cover inflation, but they do mean inflation isn’t the magic bullet it was back when there were no COLAs at all.

 
Comment by rms
2010-04-12 12:08:31

“Which makes sense, since public pensions are supported (in theory) by taxing power, thus (in theory) wouldn’t ever require bailouts - the pension provider could just raise taxes if it was short of funds; a luxury companies don’t have.”

The state’s ability to raise taxes may be reaching voter limits; benefit cuts are where the savings will come from, IMHO. Following the federal government’s benefits, how much would CalPERS and CalSTRS save by dropping the dental and vision provisions from their health plans?

 
Comment by m2pete
2010-04-12 14:43:44

I don’t know about CalSTRS, but CalPERS vision care is paid entirely by the retiree. The price fluctuates by the number of retirees enrolled.
IIRC premiums for dental are shared by CalPERS and the retiree.
COLAs are every May, not to exceed 2% and it’s applied to your base allowance, or your gross amount you received at retirement.

 
Comment by james
2010-04-12 16:59:01

Strangely enough, since pensions are so huge in the future, if you cut the COLA out of the system it is unlikely there will be much inflation.

 
Comment by rms
2010-04-12 19:42:42

I’m under the impression that dentistry rates are kept high by government(s) providing benefits driven by the ADA lobby. It’s no different than the Building industry lobbying for F&F, IMHO.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 06:33:30

Who said subprime borrowing was dead?

AP Business
Asian markets mostly higher on Greece bailout plan

By ALEX KENNEDY, Associated Press Writer

Sunday, April 11, 2010 at 9:53 p.m.

SINGAPORE — Most Asian stock markets rose Monday after European countries offered a major loan package to Greece, which is struggling to avoid a debt default.

Japan’s Nikkei 225 stock average jumped 1.1 percent to 11,322.52, Indonesia’s benchmark index gained 0.8 percent and Australia rose 0.7 percent.

The finance ministers of the 15 eurozone nations agreed Sunday to offer euro 30 billion ($40 billion) in loans to Greece this year if Athens asks for the money.

The promise - filling in details of a March 25 pledge of joint eurozone-IMF help - was another attempt to calm markets that have been selling off Greek bonds in recent days.

 
Comment by measton
2010-04-12 06:54:31

Only the trouble just keeps percolating up from the PIIGS. Now attention is turning to Portugal. Since the EU just rewarded political and fiscal irresponsibility, lets see how long it takes for new rumblings of default to shake the EU.

BINGO
If I were these other states I’d be spending like a drunken sailor, you’ll get bailed out so why worry.

PS - German people against it, but bankers wanted it and they got it.

Comment by packman
2010-04-12 07:04:58

Not just Portugal -

Countries with higher debt-to-GDP than Portugal (84%):
Belgium 101%
France 84.5%
Hungary 85%
Italy 123%

(aside from the obvious Japan, Iceland, USA)

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:22:28

No problems here that a little episode of ‘higher than expected’ inflation which ‘nobody could have seen coming’ cannot cure, are there?

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Comment by REhobbyist
2010-04-12 08:18:20

The CNBC shills were disappointed that the Dow didn’t zoom upward with the Greece “bailout.” But it didn’t fall.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 04:25:40

Which works better in spotting bubbles and predicting their imminent collapse:

- Reputation-based models (e.g. Federal Reserve Board)

- Wisdom of Crowds models (e.g. The Housing Bubble Blog)

I have my hunch; what’s yours? :-)

Comment by oxide
2010-04-12 09:46:11

HBB is not the Wisdom of Crowds model. Wisdom of Crowds is when you get enough stupid people together, the average is pretty close to the truth — maybe something like the Stopped Clock model.

HBB is more of a “Freakanomics” model, i.e. the critical thinking model.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 15:59:42

Wisdom of the crowds is an oxymoron.

I am often amazed at how people will still believe a con even when it’s right in the name.

What exists here is just good old fashioned brainstorming.

Comment by packman
2010-04-12 18:45:16

Wisdom of the crowds is an oxymoron.

I am often amazed at how people will still believe a con even when it’s right in the name.

Yep.

Which is why the founders of the U.S. realized that a Democracy was bad - and created a Republic instead.

 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-04-12 04:34:59

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/rowenamason/100004839/iceland-has-its-truth-report-into-the-financial-crisis-%E2%80%93-now-what-about-one-for-the-uk/

Icelanders are demanding and getting honest answers about the systemic and individual failures and crimes that led to their economic meltdown. The American sheeple, on the other hand, are content with the stage-managed whitewash where banksters face their bought-and-paid-for political puppets and pretend to be contrite, while knowing they face zero accountability or consequences.

 
Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 04:45:20

Forbes changes its mind about Denver housing market
Denver Business Journal

Forbes.com — which only 10 months ago dubbed Denver as America’s best city to buy a home — now declares the Mile High City the second-worst housing market in America.

“Denver doesn’t come to mind as a housing-crisis hot spot, but the city that once looked like it would escape the housing bust unscathed now shows signs of strain,” Forbes said in its report. “More than 42,000 homes are on the market in the [Denver] metro, 27 percent more than last year.”

Forbes said it evaluated U.S. metro areas with more than 1 million people, ranking them on increase in home inventory as well as changes in single-family home sales, up or down, between the fourth quarters of 2008 and 2009.

Milwaukee ranked as the worst U.S. housing market in Forbes’ report, followed by Denver, Los Angeles and St. Louis in a tie for third, and San Francisco.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 04:55:11

“More than 42,000 homes are on the market in the [Denver] metro, 27 percent more than last year.”

Shadow inventory rears its ugly head? Can’t say no one saw this coming, as I did — when I visited my sister, who bought bought a condo there (against my advice) in early 2008. We had a family gathering at her place the week the TARP was passed (early October) and drove out to the mountains. You could see the For Sale signs at the end of every other driveway along the road leading into the Rocky Mountain foothills.

Comment by In Colorado
2010-04-12 08:10:08

Curiously not too many for sale signs in my hood of 250-400K houses. Not many sales either, which probably accounts for the lack of for for sale signs.

Comment by REhobbyist
2010-04-12 09:08:01

I’ve noticed the same thing in Sacramento, and that $400K houses aren’t selling lately compared with “starter” houses.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 10:24:50

You could see the For Sale signs at the end of every other driveway along the road leading into the Rocky Mountain foothills.

Same thing started happening in the foothills of the Tucson Mountains back in 2006. The diff between ‘05 and ‘06 was striking.

 
Comment by mikey
2010-04-12 17:42:03

“Milwaukee ranked as the worst U.S. housing market in Forbes’ report, followed by Denver, Los Angeles and St. Louis in a tie for third, and San Francisco.”

…and nobody believed me until this !?!

…drags his little soapbox into a corner and pouts.

:)

Comment by mikey
2010-04-12 18:00:15

A couple of years ago, a Marquette University study said the City of Milwaukee proper, had the 2nd worse unemployment rate for US large cities, right behind behind…Detroit.

That’s when the RE and PTB started screaming houses were flying of the shelves in the Greater Milwaukee Area(Milwuakee County and a couple of surrounding ones) and poor little Milwaukee’s job problem became invisible.

No problem here…”Engage Romulan RE Cloaking Device”….

“Who daya know that wants to buy a used over-priced POS house in the rust Bucket ?”

;)

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 04:59:37

“St. Louis”

My sister and hubby own two homes there — one the big new one that they thought would prove to be a great long-term investment, and the other one they were planning to sell three years ago but haven’t quite gotten around to selling just yet.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 05:02:09

P.S. Got together Saturday night with an old friend who now lives in the PNW and who, unfortunately, is in exactly the same pickle as my sister. I wonder how many U.S. households who thought they were move-up buyers inadvertently discovered they were, in fact, the proud owners of two homes, one of which they intend to sell when the economy comes back?

 
 
Comment by combotechie
2010-04-12 05:07:19

“Forbes said it evaluated U.S. metro areas with more than 1 million people, ranking them on increase in home inventory as well as changes in single-family home sales, up or down, between the fourth quarters of 2008 and 2009.”

Lol. Forbes is evaluating the RATE OF CHANGE of prices and inventory, not the prices and inventories themselves, in determining the best and worst cities in America to buy a home.

By these standards Denver is a worse place to buy than Detroit or Cleveland.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 05:14:40

Detroit must be a slum lord’s dream. Where else can you buy SFRs on the $10K-$20K price range? How close to $0 can prices get before a bottom is reached?

Comment by cobaltblue
2010-04-12 05:32:50

“Where else can you buy SFRs on the $10K-$20K price range? How close to $0 can prices get before a bottom is reached?”

I’m thinking, “What is the value of a dilapidated structure with the roof caved in and the plumbing stripped out in a neighborhood where no one wants to live and rodents outnumber people ten to one?”

I’m thinking that considering taxes, opportunity cost, and repairs, prices could fall below zero for quite a while.

They ARE making more unihabitable slums, ya know.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:46:16

“What is the value of a dilapidated structure with the roof caved in and the plumbing stripped out in a neighborhood where no one wants to live and rodents outnumber people ten to one?”

= value of land - cost of clearing away housing bubble detritus

Probably less than zero for the near term, as you suggest…

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2010-04-12 09:21:56

I’m thinking that considering taxes, opportunity cost, and repairs, prices could fall below zero for quite a while.

Yes. Detroit — or at least parts of Detroit — are teetering on the abyss. Some absentee landlords may find the absurdly low prices appealing, but it seems like even many of the old rearguard Detroit-for-lifers are baling now.

 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2010-04-12 09:20:06

“Where else can you buy SFRs on the $10K-$20K price range?”

Ever been to Buffalo?

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Comment by CarrieAnn
2010-04-12 11:54:00

Yeah, every upstate city’s got some of them $10k homes. Bring your kevlar vests and bulletproof head gear!

 
 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 16:01:46

Denver was one of the hubs of the Savings & Loan disaster.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-04-12 04:48:43

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/metal_are_in_the_pits_2arTlGNbMK7mb1uJeVHb0O#ixzz0kr6yf6PR

A 40-year trader in the metals pits has gone public with charges that JP Morgan has been colluding with the Fed in a massive fraud to suppress and manipulate the price of precious metals. The NY Post is the first and so far only major newspaper to break this potentially huge story - the usual MSM journalistic omerta applies for the usual shills, since if true, this would constitute the largest financial fraud in US history, and could spell doom for the U.S. dollar.

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-04-12 05:46:09

JP Morgan colluding with the Fed to manipulate a market? No way!

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 06:37:10

Wouldn’t it at least sort of make sense for the Fed to outsource some of its price targeting activities to Megabank, Inc? They already use that channel in the conduct of ordinary monetary policy operations…

Comment by packman
2010-04-12 06:51:23

Being that the Fed is largely a creation of JP Morgan, I’m not sure I’d consider it “outsourcing”. Is it outsourcing if a branch office asks someone back in the home office to do the work?

Make no mistake - the Fed is in essence a branch office of Wall Street banks. Which is exactly why it’s ludicrous (but not unexpected) for them to be proposed as an “oversight” agency.

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Comment by measton
2010-04-12 06:58:02

Being that the Fed is largely a creation of JP Morgan, I’m not sure I’d consider it “outsourcing”. Is it outsourcing if a branch office asks someone back in the home office to do the work?

Perfect

 
Comment by nycjoe
2010-04-12 07:31:17

Sounds like they took it right off the Jim Willie wire ….

 
 
 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2010-04-12 06:00:18

The immediate and practical results of the price fixing scheme are not as bad as the long term implications.

What the Federal Reserve has been doing is to give a particular bank the franchise to sell short precious metals futures with immunity from loss. To invent on paper more gold and silver than actually exist and sell the non-existant supply into the market at pre-arranged times to manipulate it. The bank and Fed cannot lose - any losses incurred are routed back to the taxpayer via the Treasury. In the short run, PM prices are depressed and investors find that PM prices are subject to sharp selloffs triggerring margin calls in the futures markets, particularly among undercapitalized speculators (the little guys).
In the long run, however, price suppression encourages over-consumption and misallocation of resources. The Fed has created a market imbalance which will eventually do more damage to the dollar than if it had left the PM markets alone. Of course I think in the long run, the Fed has plans to abandon the dollar as we know it anyway. Probably during some time of a manufactured political crisis where it and the Federal government assume even greater power than today.

Comment by packman
2010-04-12 06:19:33

In the long run, however, price suppression encourages over-consumption and misallocation of resources.

Seems like that would be true only if prices were *down* relative to recent history - no? Obviously they very much are not. Gold prices are up 300% in 8 years - are there really people that would say “I expected prices to be up 500% but now that they’re only up 300% - what a bargain! I’m going to get some!”. I don’t think so.

I realize it’s referring to “the long run” of course, and I’m not saying that prices aren’t artificially manipulated - possibly downward - but gold isn’t really a commodity-price-driven consumptive item; the vast majority of the costs of gold’s consumptive uses - jewelry and electronics mainly - are in the processing, not the material.

Comment by cobaltblue
2010-04-12 06:59:34

” are there really people that would say “I expected prices to be up 500% but now that they’re only up 300% - what a bargain! I’m going to get some!”. I don’t think so.”

The price of gold is always the price in some currency. Up 300% against the dollar after price suppression suggests it would have been up even more without the price suppression. It is not individuals like you and me doing the increased consumption, it is more like central banks. The gold fixing game has been to slow down the conversion of dollars into gold and to make the dollar appear “stronger” than it really is; with respect to gold, the “other” international currency.
Now, with silver, overconsumption really has taken place. Worldwide stockpiles of silver have been steadily vanishing, and the Fed’s price suppression efforts in silver have encouraged overconsumption and underproduction due to the low dollar cost. Unlike gold, most of the silver above ground each year is consumed in industrial and military use. Consider that silver is the best conductor of electricty, and the best reflector of photons, known to man. It also has germicidal and medicinal properties. Also, some of it is hoarded, coined, or used as an investment vehicle, worldwide.
Most of the gold above ground stays in vaults.

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Comment by Michael Viking
2010-04-12 07:27:20

I put on my tin foil hat, picked up my magic 8-ball and asked “Is this guy destined to have some sort of mundane, life-taking accident in the near future?” and magic 8-ball said “all signs point to yes”.

 
Comment by SD Renter
2010-04-12 07:56:40

A 40-year trader in the metals pits has gone public with charges that JP Morgan has been colluding with the Fed in a massive fraud to suppress and manipulate the price of precious metals. The NY Post is the first and so far only major newspaper to break this potentially huge story - the usual MSM journalistic omerta applies for the usual shills, since if true, this would constitute the largest financial fraud in US history, and could spell doom for the U.S. dollar.”

Isn’t it ironic that the whistle blower was injured by a hit and run driver the next day. Gee Wally, isn’t that a coincidence?

http://mindbodypolitic.com/2010/03/27/cftc-whistle-blower-wife-injured-by-hit-and-run-driver/

Comment by cobaltblue
2010-04-12 10:58:59

From that article:

“Maguire’s car was hit from a side road by another car that then tried to race away. As it did, it almost struck a pedestrian who tried to block it. It hit two other cars before police, using helicopters, chased it down.
Deep breath.
OK.

First, a number of people deeply involved in the Madoff scandal die.

Just a month before the fraud is exposed, Alex Widmer, CEO of Bank Julius Baer, Switzerland’s largest wealth manager, dies unexpectedly, the family withholding the cause from a desire for privacy (November 5, 2008).

Then, top HSBC banker Christian Schorr was found hanging from his hotel room ceiling (December 21, 2008).

Just after him, there was the aristocratic manager of Madoff feeder-fund Access International Advisors, Rene-Thierry de la Villehuchet, found dead in his New York office, his arms and wrists slashed by a box-cutter (December 22, 2008)

Next, Freddie Mac’s Chief Financial Officer David Kellerman commits “apparent” suicide (April 22, 2009).

In the fall of the same year, Jeffrey Picower, an attorney who ran a foundation that invested in Madoff’s fund and allegedly siphoned off $7 billion through it, was found dead in his swimming pool in Florida (October 25, 2009).

More recently, the co-head of trading at suspect hedge-fund Third Point, Adam Sackett, died unexpectedly of a bacterial infection at the age of 35 (March 20, 2010).

That happens only the day before the release of the Valukas report on the 2008 collapse of investment bank Lehman Brothers, which strangely exonerates hedge-funds from any involvement in the collapse. This is accompanied by triumphant proclamations in the media that the markets have not, and cannot, be manipulated by speculators.”

From today’s news - Polish national bankers who had recently confronted the European Central bank over the value of the nation’s
currency, the zloty, were among the dead in the plane crash in Russia. “In moving to weaken the zloty, Poland’s leadership was placing the interests of the people of Poland ahead of the interests of the European collective known as the European Union. Then, the next day, the president of Poland dies in a plane crash along with numerous other top leaders, including the president of the National Bank.”

Nothing to see here, move along quietly

Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 16:06:01

Thanks cobaltblue.

I was trying to explain to some of my acquaintances a year ago that there was going to be some high profile deaths with this current economic mess, most of them “suicide” or “accidents” and they told me I was just being a conspiracy nut.

Some people really are too sheltered.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 04:51:48

What this guy says about the low end bottoming out before the high end makes no sense, but it is still entertaining. In particular, you cannot have a bottoming of the bottom of the market ahead of a future collapse of the top end. It is sort of like saying that your home’s floor is stable even though the roof is about to cave in on the house.

A more likely scenario is that a collapsing top end will lead to further adjustment towards increased affordability at the bottom end. It’s all good in the long run, as areas where young workers have been priced out will eventually have a long-term entry point for young families trying to get settled in local labor markets where they can help start rebuilding America’s wrecked economy.

Further, the idea that we are one year away from recovery has already been out there for a few years now. But in fairness, the article does say “he believes,” and we all know how accurately the faith-based predictions of economists have recently turned out. A better guess might be obtained by comparing the end of the last serious recession (March 1991) to the subsequent housing trough (1996? 5 years later). Since this time the bubble was the biggest in history, 5 years after the end of the recession might prove overly optimistic, and that timing would already get you out to 2014, at the least.

PIMCO: Don’t Expect A Housing Recovery Anytime Soon
Vincent Fernando, CFA | Apr. 12, 2010, 2:07 AM

PIMCO has completed an excellent Q&A with Scott Simon, the head of their mortgage and asset-backed securities team.

Mr. Simon addresses the housing outlook now that the federal reserves historic mortgage-backed security (MBS) buying program (which had been used to provide liquidity and support market prices during the crisis) has ended.

Overall, he presents a mixed outlook.

Firstly, he thinks the MBS market can hold up on its own now and doesn’t need the Fed’s buying support, and in fact hasn’t needed the Fed’s support for many months now:

PIMCO:

Simon: We are unlikely to see a significant market disruption in the Agency market stemming from the Fed’s retreat. First, the retreat had been well advertised for months before the event. Investors knew exactly when the program was going to end and how much the Fed was buying. So it’s not as if anybody woke up and was surprised by the fact that the Fed had stopped buying.

Second, private buyers are in a much better position today than they had been before the Fed started buying. The private balance sheet was seriously impaired by the financial crisis at the time the Fed stepped in with its public balance sheet. But by October 2009 or so, the private balance sheet had improved. The Fed probably could have stopped buying at that point with about $850 billion in completed purchases, but it felt compelled to reach the previously announced total of $1.25 trillion, and so the next $400 billion in MBS drove prices higher.

Yet secondly, he thinks MBS prices are looking pricey, driven up by fed buying that went on for too long, as mentioned in the excerpt above.

Q: What are your views on MBS prices today?

Simon: Agency MBS look expensive vs. 10-year Treasuries but cheaper compared to two-year swaps. We never look at mortgage bonds in isolation, but compare prices against an array of other instruments, so I avoid being too specific about labeling them as cheap or expensive. However, I’ll go so far as to say Agency MBS peaked in richness in late December or early January and finished March still priced on the richer side of fair.

Finally, and more broadly, he believes that the low-end housing market may have already bottomed, while the high-end market will bottom later this year. Thing is, he warns that “If one labels recovery as prices rising dramatically, we do not foresee that anytime soon.”

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-04-12 07:38:07

High end prices, low end prices.

Picture a caterpillar. Low end prices are the head and high end prices are the tail.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:42:04

I’m picturing a squashed caterpillar.

 
Comment by pressboardbox
2010-04-12 08:53:20

Don’t the turds come from the tail?

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 15:28:55

“Don’t the turds come from the tail?”

Especially when they are squashed.

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Comment by measton
2010-04-12 08:11:44

I suspect high end to fall more as well.

Low end probably has seen increased buyers as people opt to buy smaller houses. Unemployment seems is at least stable (? for how long). Many people have purchased with gov incentives and house may be affordable as long as they don’t have to move.

High end has a lot of people who made a lot of money when credit was flowing like a river. These people will see their incomes fall. Also a lot of retired people who have seen their incomes slashed by FEDs rate policy and purchasing treasuries etc. They also may have lossed money in the crash and probably were the ones that pulled their money because they depended on it. Tax breaks and incentives disappear for higher end homes.

 
 
Comment by peter a
2010-04-12 05:04:21

It occurred to me after a discussion with my friend, that 90% of the people in the USA have know idea the constitution says. I contend that 90% off the people have failed to read the constitution of the United States of America. For this reason alone we are doomed.

Comment by In Montana
2010-04-12 06:32:47

know idea?

LOL

 
Comment by 2banana
2010-04-12 06:36:11

Know - that is not true

I no the answer is know - you no?

It used to be we taught what was in the US Constitution in elementary through High School. Now we teach about earth day and the evils of white Christian men…

Comment by MrBubble
2010-04-12 07:28:35

Probably good to teach all three of those things rather than merely banging the “strict textualist” drum every day, I reckon.

Comment by nycjoe
2010-04-12 07:34:01

not to mention the evils of evolutionists … in some states, anyhow.

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Comment by MrBubble
2010-04-12 09:16:52

“not to mention the evils of evolutionists … in some states, anyhow.”

Your meaning remains opaque to me. Do you mean that the evils of evolutionists should be taught in school? Or is there some other joke in your post that I missed.

 
 
 
Comment by exeter
2010-04-12 07:39:47

If the white men where actually Christian there would be no problem.

Comment by hwy59ina49dodge
2010-04-12 10:17:49

:-)

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2010-04-12 09:41:44

No children are now being taught to take tests.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 10:33:41

Which will give them great preparation for future careers as game show contestants.

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Comment by MrBubble
2010-04-12 14:00:19

And worker bees and doe-eyed boob droids.

 
 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 16:18:51

Not the Constitution.

Not the Bill of Rights.

Not the Declaration of Independence (THAT is a good read. wow!)

Let alone the Federalist Papers.

We have become the very thing we fought against. The control of government by corporation, then known as The East India Trading Company.

The “Great Experiment” is over.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 05:12:37

A word for the wise (and sorry to repeat this so often, but somebody needs to counter the serial bottom caller’s “housing market will recover by the end of this year” meme):

- The last time the U.S. suffered a serious recession (July 1990-March 1991), there was no housing market recovery for five years or so.

- In the best case scenario for the present situation might be that the recession ended in late 2009 and the housing market will bottom out by five years hence, in 2014.

- Given the pernicious effects on fundamental U.S. housing demand of a growing mountain of debt at all levels of U.S. households, firms and governments coupled with a Baby Boom-driven demographic time bomb, the best case seems highly unlikely to occur.

- Buy now and get locked in to a high-priced loan forever.

* The Wall Street Journal
* ECONOMY
* APRIL 12, 2010, 7:53 A.M. ET

Committee Reluctant to Mark End of Recession
By A WSJ Staff Reporter

The committee of academic economists that dates the beginning and end of recessions said it isn’t ready to put an end date on the recession that began in December 2007.

The National Bureau of Economic Research’s Business Cycle Dating Committee, which met Friday, said, “Although most indicators have turned up, the committee decided that the determination of the trough date on the basis of current data would be premature.”

The committee’s full statement, issued this morning from the NBER Cambridge offices, said:

“The committee reviewed the most recent data for all indicators relevant to the determination of a possible date of the trough in economic activity marking the end of the recession that began in December 2007. The trough date would identify the end of contraction and the beginning of expansion. Although most indicators have turned up, the committee decided that the determination of the trough date on the basis of current data would be premature. Many indicators are quite preliminary at this time and will be revised in coming months. The committee acts only on the basis of actual indicators and does not rely on forecasts in making its determination of the dates of peaks and troughs in economic activity. The committee did review data relating to the date of the peak, previously determined to have occurred in December 2007, marking the onset of the recent recession. The committee reaffirmed that peak date.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 05:21:46

P.S. December 2007 is when Hanky-Panky Paulson gave a WH economist the hook for forecasting a recession in 2008. Apparently that was the reward a government economist earned for being honest. And we wonder here about why so many economists seem to be so wrong so much of the time…

Comment by rms
2010-04-12 07:33:15

Possibly a gentile economist?

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:43:35

Atheist economists would tend to be more honest…

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Comment by measton
2010-04-12 08:13:17

Atheist economists would tend to be more honest…

They are more honest, just unemployed with no microphone to the masses.

 
 
 
 
Comment by packman
2010-04-12 06:22:22

Pretty sure the recession ended at 3:27PM on June 22nd last year, didn’t it?

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2010-04-12 07:23:35

How is “recovery” being defined? Is it the end of declining prices, or is it prices reaching the levels of 2005-06?

The former could well happen this year. The latter might not happen in my lifetime (I’m retired).

How DO HBBers define “recovery?”

Comment by packman
2010-04-12 07:31:22

Personally - I don’t even attempt to define it, because recovery very much depends on your perspective. If you’re a banker we’ve been in full-on recovery mode since early last year. However if you’ve been pounding the pavement for a job for 9 months now, or you’re a small business owner that’s still seeing business going down the tubes, or your a state that’s struggling to stave off bankruptcy - then recovery schmovery - you ain’t seein’ it.

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Comment by packman
2010-04-12 07:32:37

(your a state -> you’re a state)

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2010-04-12 11:07:13

Sorry, let me be more specific. Is there a consensus among HBBers as to what will constitute a housing recovery? Is it defined as the end of price declines or is it when prices get back to and surpass the 2005-06 peak?

Whichever, “recovery” will happen in some areas long before it happens in others.

 
Comment by packman
2010-04-12 11:15:54

Depends - are you asking for a point in time (i.e. where we consider the recovery to be complete), or a period of time (i.e. the period of time between the beginning of the recovery and the end of the recovery)?

If you’re asking for a period of time - I’d say the recovery started oh, right about March of 2006, with an end date coinciding with a true bottom in housing prices (not to be fooled by the recent dead-cat-bounce). I think that answers your question.

Most of the MSM, however, will consider a “recovery” to be complete when prices are back up to 2005/2006 levels.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 11:50:40

I’m of the mind that housing will recover when prices re-align with historic income/rent metrics. As in:

In any given market, the median house price is 3x the median income. And, for buy-to-let housing, the purchase price is 100-120x the monthly rent.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 05:19:14

How many other central banks besides the Fed find themselves pushing on proverbial strings these days?

And do those in charge of the Bank of Japan pretend to be all-powerful like certain FOMC members do?

* The Wall Street Journal
* ECONOMY
* APRIL 12, 2010, 2:09 A.M. ET

Japan Bank Lending Falls

By TAKASHI MOCHIZUKI and MIHO NAKAUCHI

TOKYO — Japanese bank lending in March fell at its sharpest pace since August 2005, a reaction to the steep increase in loans a year earlier during the financial crisis but also reflecting weak corporate demand for funds due to an uncertain economic outlook.

Lending by all banks excluding credit unions dropped 2.0% on year to ¥401.13 trillion ($4.3 trillion), the fourth straight month of declines, the Bank of Japan said Monday.

The shrinking lending comes even as the country’s central bank pushes ahead with an easy monetary policy to try to revive private demand in the world’s second largest economy. The Bank of Japan has kept its target short-term interest rate at 0.1% since December 2008, and last month it doubled the amount of low-interest loans it will lend to banks to Y20 trillion.

The BOJ’s easing isn’t explicitly aimed at increasing bank lending–with companies’ funding demand weak, monetary policy alone has little power to get banks to make more loans. But with many Japanese firms dependent on bank loans to do business, such lending would need to rise to improve business confidence among companies, especially smaller firms.

Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 16:22:05

When Japan lost it’s manufacturing to China (sound familiar?) it was pretty much game over.

While they design and invent incredible things, their tech is so far ahead of the rest of the world that they have no market.

 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-04-12 05:22:51

Shut her down, Ben. It’s all over..

You’re Awesome, America
by Daniel Gross
Slate Magazine

“The current pessimism is part of a historical economic-inferiority complex. To hear some critics tell it, things have been going south in this country since the cruel winter in Jamestown, Va., in 1609, when most of the settlers died. For most of the 19th century, America was the immature, uncouth cousin that required huge infusions of European capital to build its railroads. The United States emerged from World War II as the globe’s industrial, financial, and technological leader by default—the rest of the developed world had destroyed much of its industrial capacity. Yet Americans were insecure about their rising status. In the 1920s, many Progressives returned from Mussolini’s Italy convinced that Il Duce had a superior economic model. During the New Deal, bankers and industrialists earnestly fretted that Franklin Roosevelt would ruin the nation’s prospects for growth by establishing a new safety net. The U.S.S.R.’s launch of the Sputnik satellite in 1957 inspired fears that the Soviet Union’s presumed technological lead would allow it to triumph in the Cold War. And in the 1980s, Japan threatened the United States with exports of electronics and cars and by buying trophy properties like Rockefeller Center and the Pebble Beach golf resort. “The Cold War is over, and Japan won,” as Sen. Paul Tsongas put it in 1992.”

“Of course, the declinists were often wrong—Rockefeller Center and Pebble Beach returned to U.S. ownership within a decade. Just as exuberant projections are generally made precisely at the top (remember Dow 36,000?), prophecies of long-term decline usually gain traction after we’ve suffered a catastrophic fall. This time around, the chorus of naysayers reached its climax in March 2009, when Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke was widely mocked for his identification of “green shoots” of recovery. In the first quarter of 2009, the economy was shrinking at a 6.4 percent annual rate. By the fourth quarter it was growing at a 5.9 percent rate. Consider the scope of that swing: The growth rate of a $14.5 trillion economy shifted by 12.3 percentage points in about nine months. Like a massive sailboat pivoting 180 degrees in choppy seas, this wrenching turnaround produced a massive wake and induced nausea among many of its passengers.”

“The recovery came quickly because the public and private sectors reacted with great speed. In the 1990s, Japanese policymakers deliberated and delayed before embarking on a program that included interest-rate cuts, a huge stimulus program, expanded bank insurance, and the nationalization of failed institutions. In 2008 and 2009 it took the United States just 18 months to conduct the aggressive fiscal and monetary actions that Japan waited for 12 years to carry out. And the patient responded to the shock therapy, as the credit markets and financial sector bounced back. Since the announcements of the Treasury-imposed stress tests in May 2009, banks have raised more than $140 billion in new equity capital. In August 2009, not even the most cockeyed optimists could have projected that within four months, Bank of America, Citi, and Wells Fargo would return $100 billion in borrowed funds to the taxpayers. But they did.”

“CIT Group, the small-business lender that lost its way in an ill-timed foray into subprime, is a perfect example of those quick reflexes. It filed for Chapter 11 on Nov. 1, 2009. In five weeks it wiped out $10.4 billion in debt (including $2.3 billion of TARP funds) and emerged from bankruptcy. It has brought in a new CEO—John Thain, who had run the New York Stock Exchange and Merrill Lynch—and is now focusing on its core business of lending to small and midsize firms. “

Comment by cobaltblue
2010-04-12 06:12:40

Oh man…Daniel Gross and Baghdad Bob are two of a kind.

I guess we can push the markets up forever by constantly pumping freshly created trillion dollar transfusions into the money supply courtesy of the taxpayer. Now that is what you call lasting prosperity. No downside. Only gravy.

Give Spanky Benanky the Nobel prize too. It’s economic perpetual motion he has perfected here.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 10:35:28

I’d like to propose a new slogan…

The United States: A Nation in Decline Since 1776

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 16:26:23

How convenient for him to leave out the depressions and recessions, a civil war that killed millions and a mafia economy that may have brought us to the brink of WW3.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 05:27:05

It’s hard to reconcile the serial bottom caller’s stopped clock forecast of a housing recovery by year’s end with the evidence that the U.S. labor market is FUBAR for the foreseeable future.

* OPINION
* APRIL 12, 2010

The Jobs Picture Still Looks Bleak
Many outsourced jobs will never return, and median income will likely continue to fall just like it did during the last so-called recovery.

By ROBERT REICH

The U.S. economy added 162,000 jobs in March. That sounds impressive until you look more closely. At least a third of them were temporary government hires to take the census—better than no job but hardly worth writing home about. The 112,000 real new jobs were fewer than the 150,000 needed to keep up with the growth of the U.S. population. It’s far better than it was—we’re not hemorrhaging jobs as we did in 2008 and 2009—but the bleeding hasn’t stopped.

Since the start of the Great Recession in December 2007, the economy has shed 8.4 million jobs and failed to create another 2.7 million required by an ever-larger pool of potential workers. That leaves us more than 11 million jobs behind. (The number is worse if you include everyone working part-time who’d rather it be full-time, those working full-time at fewer hours, and people who are overqualified for the jobs they’re in.) This means even if we enjoy a vigorous recovery that produces, say, 300,000 net new jobs a month, we could be looking at five to eight years before catching up to where we were before the recession began.

Given how many Americans are unemployed or underemployed, it’s hard to see where we get sufficient demand to support a vigorous recovery. Outlays from the federal stimulus have already passed their peak, and the Federal Reserve won’t keep interest rates near zero for very long. Although consumers are beginning to come out of their holes, it will be many years before they can return to their pre-recession levels of spending. Most households rely on two wage earners, of whom at least one is now likely to be unemployed, underemployed or in danger of losing a job. And even households whose incomes have returned are likely to be residing in houses whose values haven’t—which means they can’t turn their homes into cash machines as they did before the recession.

Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 16:29:17

“…This means even if we enjoy a vigorous recovery that produces, say, 300,000 net new jobs a month, we could be looking at five to eight years before catching up to where we were before the recession began.”

Which wasn’t that great a place to begin with.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 05:28:40

Yawn…

* The Wall Street Journal
* REVIEW & OUTLOOK
* APRIL 12, 2010

Greece’s Debt Lessons
New York, California and Washington are on the same path.

European governments on Sunday moved closer to bailing out Greece, saying the country would be eligible for up to €30 billion in loans this year at about 5% interest from fellow euro nations if a rescue becomes necessary. This is one more attempt to assure credit markets in advance of a new auction of Greek debt on Tuesday, for whatever those attempts have been worth. Greece’s debt agony is painful but it might do some good if the rest of the world—including Washington—heeds its lessons.

Comment by combotechie
2010-04-12 06:02:39

“Greece’s debt agony is painful but it might do some good if the rest of the world - including Washington - heeds its lessons.”

Lol. So now the WSJ is in the joke-telling business?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:10:12

Sure haven’t run out of handwringers just yet…

Greece’s deepening debt crisis
The wax melts
Worries about Greece’s ability to roll over its maturing debt are giving way to bigger fears

Apr 8th 2010 | ATHENS AND LONDON | From The Economist print edition

GEORGE PAPANDREOU may have spoken too soon. On April 6th, just three days after the Greek prime minister claimed “the worst is over,” the yield on Greek ten-year government bonds leapt from 6.5% to above 7%. Yields remain at alarming levels, rising above 7.5% at one point on April 8th. The president of the European Central Bank, Jean-Claude Trichet, told a press conference that “default is not an issue for Greece.” But the D-word is increasingly on the lips of analysts. The cost of insuring Greece’s bonds surpassed that of Iceland’s this week; Greek banks have asked to tap a government liquidity scheme. Far from coming to an end, the Greek debt crisis seems scarcely to have begun.

On the face of it, this week’s renewed bond-market jitters were caused by growing doubts that an emergency-aid package patched together by European Union leaders last month offers Greece much help. Under the terms of the EU deal, any short-term support would have to be approved by all of the 16 countries in the euro zone. German anger at Greece’s profligacy could easily delay the cash it would need should bond markets close.

Any rescue package would be co-financed by the IMF, which may be good for €12 billion ($16 billion) of swift support. But the stipulation, insisted on by Germany, that EU cash would only be furnished at near-market rates meant the deal failed to provide an interest-rate ceiling for Greece’s public debt, leaving the country to suffer every turn in market sentiment. Senior EU sources say a formula is being discussed to address this flaw. The interest- rate benchmark would be set over a long period, so it would not be unduly influenced by immediate market stresses. Rates paid by countries with a credit rating similar to Greece’s would also be a factor.

Optimists are still confident that the government can raise enough funds in the next six weeks to stave off default, though at a high cost. The government has more than €13 billion in cash, enough to refinance maturing debt and fund the budget deficit during April. It needs to raise another €10 billion-12 billion in May. The likely borrowing requirement for the remainder of the year, around €25 billion, is spread more evenly. “If we can get over the May borrowing hump, it’s a relatively smooth cruise for the rest of the year,” says one trader in Athens.

That is a big “if”, say pessimists. In the six months since the Socialists were elected, spreads have jumped by more than two percentage points. Greece can no longer risk holding an auction for a new issue of bonds for fear that it fails. Its Public Debt Management Agency has resorted to syndicated-bond sales managed by big international banks. But the pools of spare cash that Greece can tap seem to be drying up.

Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-04-12 11:13:52

“…..Socialists were elected…….”

Yeah, them d#mn Socialists. It must be their fault.

Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 16:31:16

How dare you imply it was the previous admin who had already cut the deals?!

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 05:29:44

Picture = bleak

MSM-favored economist = liars and prostitutes

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 05:31:11

A good day to all readers here! :-)

Comment by hwy59ina49dodge
2010-04-12 06:42:55

America / Pills / 300 Billion $$$$$$$$$$$$$…

No worries… ;-)

Comment by hwy59ina49dodge
2010-04-12 06:44:11

Note: $300 Billion per year… ;-)

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Comment by pressboardbox
2010-04-12 08:15:37

Don’t forget: Half of ‘em get resold on the black market for a several-hundred-percent mark-up.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-04-12 05:44:39

In these dark times, when truth and reason seem nearly extinct in the face of all-pervasive dissembling and manipulation, this blog and its posters have been a real oasis. Thanks, Ben and fellow HBBers.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 06:34:44

Always enjoy the rare honesty of your posts, Sammy…

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 06:58:13

A note from a person who moved from Hardeeville, S.C. to Nebraska :

“Finally - after 2 years! - sold the house in Hardeeville; papers get signed today. This deal has been dragging on and on and on… my poor realtor - who is also a dear friend - has been in deep kimchee for the past two years. Three years ago she was selling $500,000 and up homes without a quiver. This year, she has done a few foreclosures and short sales, just getting by on the skin of her teeth. When selling my paltry little house for $83,900 is all she has to look forward to, in fees, well, you know that the market and the banks have gone further south than even the Deep South. All I really care about is getting out the money I put into the place - we bought it for $29,000, 20 years ago - and getting out from under the payments and insurance and taxes on the place. Kinda funny that here, taxes on the house, outbuildings, and 60 acres are $404 a year - there, on a 1975-built, 1000-sq-ft brick home with 1/3 of an acre, the taxes are almost $1,000 a year. My realtor had to fight to get this guy a loan at a bank - and he was “preapproved” last year, for a loan up to $160,000! Just glad we got out from under before the crash”.

Comment by CentralCoastDude
2010-04-12 12:14:45

Gee… It sound like we really need to keep the profession of Realturd alive….LOL!

“before the crash” you are closer to the bottom then the middle of it all.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 07:03:51

End of Recession Not Yet Declared

WASHINGTON (AP) — A panel of academics that date the beginnings and ends of recessions isn’t ready to declare just yet when this downturn ended.

The National Bureau of Economic Research says although most barometers show improvements in the economy, it would be “premature” to pinpoint the end of a recession based on economic data seen so far.

The group has already pinpointed the start date of the recession as December 2007. Many private economists believed the recession ended in June or July last year.

(In other words, it ain’t over ’til NBER says it’s over.)

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-04-12 07:27:35

PTB S.O.P. calls for the MSM to begin a campaign to marginalize the NBER in the eyes of the public. It’s probably already happening, I just haven’t read enough articles yet today.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 07:35:10

Hasn’t the economics profession pretty much already marginalized itself during the recent financial debacle?

“Subprime is contained.

No one could have seen it coming.

(Insert your favorite official data release here) turned out worse than economists expected.

etc etc etc”

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 07:33:38

GAO: Postal Service business ‘not viable’

The U.S. Postal Service’s current business model “is not viable” and the mail agency should make deeper job and wage cuts, hire more part-time staff and consider outsourcing operations, according to a draft of a government audit acquired by The Federal Eye.

Auditors also urge Congress to remove restrictions on the Postal Service’s ability to cut Saturday mail delivery and close post offices, according to the report, which offers recommendations similar to the USPS’s own proposed 10-year business plan.

Lawmakers requested the Government Accountability Office report, set for a Monday release, as they prepare to consider the USPS plan, which was introduced last month. The proposals call for an end to six-day delivery and ask Congress to give the mail agency the ability to raise prices beyond the rate of inflation and close post offices if necessary.

The report’s conclusions pleased top postal officials who are gathered this week in Nashville for the annual National Postal Forum, a convention for the mail agency’s largest customers.

Postmaster General John E. Potter said Sunday he was pleased with the GAO’s general conclusions, but concerned with suggestions in the report that further study of the issue is required.

“We’ve studied this significantly, the time for study is over, now’s the time for action,” he said.

Potter and his colleagues estimate the Postal Service will lose a record $7 billion in the fiscal year that ends in September and could lose at least $238 billion in the next decade if Congress fails to act.

Auditors appeared to push beyond the USPS proposal. “If no action is taken, risks of larger USPS losses, rate increases and taxpayer subsides will increase,” GAO said.

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-04-12 08:31:17

If they could only run the post office as efficiently as they do GM, Fannie, Freddie, AIG, Citi, Amtrak, Chrysler. All they need is the right Czar. Duh?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 10:37:29

Four months ago, my father and I took Amtrak from Wilmington, DE to Washington, DC and back again. We were on the Metroliner on both trips, and, as far as we were concerned, the service was just fine.

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-04-12 10:49:50

Yes, but did they lose money on your trip? Anyone can sell a dollar for a nickel.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 12:33:52

I don’t know how they made out on our trip. We just sat in our seats and watched DE, MD, and DC go by.

 
 
 
 
Comment by polly
2010-04-12 11:04:58

I mailed my taxes today. Post office was busy but not overly so. The guy at the desk had to send away the person in front of me in line - she was trying to mail her stuff using a Fed Ex slip. And then she wanted to know if he would giver her a box! He said that the mailing supplies she needed were with the Fed Ex drop box and sent her away. Nice guy. Very polite. And her took care of my certified return receipt stuff in less than 2 minutes.

I think I’m going to miss that post office.

 
Comment by Dave of the North
2010-04-12 11:56:26

Story from Canada:

I’m treasurer for an organization. Our PO Box is in another city. One of our members checks the PO Box and distributes mail to the appropriate member of the exec. I get a piece of plastic with a sticker on it - it has bar code and a dollar amount. It’s their version of an invoice to pay for the yearly PO box rental.

I go to the franchise PO in the drugstore to pay it - they can’t take the payment. I can’t pay it on-line either.

Then I go to the full service PO in this city. They can’t take it either. I ask the guy to give the mailing address for the PO in the other city so that I can mail the payment to them. He can’t find the address. He calls them - no answer.

I call the PO later - finally someone answers. I ask for the address. The person gives me the address but can’t remember the postal code. “Oh, try this one” she says… “It should get here”.

I look the Postal code up online. (The one she gave me was wrong) I mail them the payment.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 07:43:57

Ron Paul chastises at GOP conference: Conservatives ‘like the empire’
April 10th, 2010

He was met with both disapproval and applause during the Southern Republican Leadership Conference for describing conservatives as hypocritical when they call for a return to Constitutional values while supporting foreign wars.

The conservatives and the liberals, they both like to spend. Conservatives spend money on different things. They like embassies, and they like occupation. They like the empire. They like to be in 135 countries and 700 bases.

Don’t you think it’s rather conservative to say, ‘Oh it’s good to follow the Constitution. Oh, except for war. Let the President go to war anytime they want.’ We can do better with peace than with war.

While most of the other speakers at the event used plenty of rhetoric for “easy applause,” as Washington Post reporter David Weigel put it, Paul stuck to the outrage over American foreign policy that has defined his platform.
Story continues below…

Whenever the boos grew loud enough, Paul returned to his “humble” foreign policy stance.

“It’s been 60 years since we went to war in Korea,” said Paul. “Why do we have to have troops there?”

Comment by measton
2010-04-12 09:20:48

A politician saying something he knows is going to be unpopular in front of his own party.

Now that’s nice. I don’t agree with everything he says but he does seem to stand on principle which is a lot more than most of our politicians.

 
Comment by hwy59ina49dodge
2010-04-12 10:36:06

“They like the empire. They like to be in 135 countries and 700 bases”

The US Military Supply Corporation

Fear = Profit

The more fear…the more profit.

The US Medical Supply Corporation

“Treatment” = Profit

The more “Treatment”…the more profit

Define: “enough is enough” ;-)

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2010-04-12 15:13:41

“Whenever the boos grew loud enough…”

I was thinking about this this morning on my ride from Eugene back to Portland, but in the context of Enron and egged on by the PM whistleblower story above. As someone (like most Americans) who has both lefty and righty tendencies, depending on the issue, I appreciate Ron Paul’s willingness to call out this hypocrisy.

I wouldn’t mind so much if the boos were coming from disagreement about facts that he might be presenting being misleading or wrong. But the fact that Americans continue to pick sides and accuse others of being un-American or unpatriotic for calling out hypocritical behavior or worse trying to improve their country’s politics or company’s accounting policies is unacceptable in my opinion. Good on RP for speaking out.

Are you with us or against us, indeed.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 16:39:47

It’s called PNAC.

Project for the New American Century… and it’s about nothing but “empire” and it’s the neocons’ core driving force. Their ultimate wet dream.

Google it and be very afraid, because most of its plans have already been executed.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 07:48:20

Klamath Falls may try 4-day school week to save money

Klamath County School officials are considering cutting the school week to four days in an effort that would save the district $6.3 million.

By The Associated Press

KLAMATH FALLS, Ore. — Klamath County School officials are considering cutting the school week to four days to save the district $6.3 million annually.

The Herald and News reported that the shortened week is one of many money-saving measures school officials are considering.

District Superintendent Greg Thede says that a $5.8 million cut to his $60 million budget and nearly 20 layoffs last year prompted the district to form a committee to study the option of cutting Fridays from the school week.

He says that school days Monday through Thursday would be longer to meet state hourly requirements.

“I think we’ve seen all over the state, programs getting cut, class sizes going up, employee groups having to make concessions,” Thede said. “These times we’re going through right now are unprecedented. It’s tough.”

But there are concerns from the Klamath Falls Association of Classified Employees, the union that represents classified staff, such as teaching assistants, cooks, custodians, secretaries and bus drivers.

Union President Linda Braden says one less day in the week will mean a day less of work for 380 classified staff.

Comment by polly
2010-04-12 11:29:23

Next announcement: the cops worried about a bunch of kids running around town all day Friday with no adult supervision?

 
Comment by CentralCoastDude
2010-04-12 12:04:34

I thought we were all out of stupid ideas. Have you ever seen Joe Rogan’s stand up routine–it is on NetFlix? Hilarious commentary on the dummies and how we got here.
We should be going to a year round school program, this makes more financial sense and is an investment in our future. The administrators can take one day off and no one will miss their lazy arsess, but our kids need a real education!

Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 16:43:18

An educated populace has this habit of demanding rights and justice and making smarter and wiser purchases.

That does not fit with the Corporate Communist Capitalism©®™ plan.

 
 
Comment by AZtoORtoCOtoOR
2010-04-12 17:21:26

See, like I keeping telling everyone it is different here in Oregon!!

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 07:52:33

Interest Rates Have Nowhere to Go but Up ~ NY Times

Even as prospects for the American economy brighten, consumers are about to face a new financial burden: a sustained period of rising interest rates.

That, economists say, is the inevitable outcome of the nation’s ballooning debt and the renewed prospect of inflation as the economy recovers from the depths of the recent recession.

The shift is sure to come as a shock to consumers whose spending habits were shaped by a historic 30-year decline in the cost of borrowing.

“Americans have assumed the roller coaster goes one way,” said Bill Gross, whose investment firm, Pimco, has taken part in a broad sell-off of government debt, which has pushed up interest rates. “It’s been a great thrill as rates descended, but now we face an extended climb.”

The impact of higher rates is likely to be felt first in the housing market, which has only recently begun to rebound from a deep slump. The rate for a 30-year fixed rate mortgage has risen half a point since December, hitting 5.31 last week, the highest level since last summer.

Along with the sell-off in bonds, the Federal Reserve has halted its emergency $1.25 trillion program to buy mortgage debt, placing even more upward pressure on rates.

“Mortgage rates are unlikely to go lower than they are now, and if they go higher, we’re likely to see a reversal of the gains in the housing market,” said Christopher J. Mayer, a professor of finance and economics at Columbia Business School. “It’s a really big risk.”

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 08:04:10

In the long run, interest rates are up, and bond owners are dead.

But not to worry — you bond investors will have plenty of time to unload your bond portfolio before interest rates go up…

 
Comment by Chris M
2010-04-12 09:32:24

consumers are about to face a new financial burden: a sustained period of rising interest rates.

This is only a burden for borrowers. Some of us consumers are spending cash we have already earned. Why does the press think that borrowing money solves anything?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 10:39:34

You’ve got it, Chris.

I need to buy a better camera than the one I’ve been using. It’s going to be an all-cash purchase.

In essence, I’m going to borrowing from the Bank of Me for a few weeks/months. And I’m already issuing myself the “How fast can you make the money back?” challenge.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 23:23:37

Can’t say interest rates are going higher for sure, but just in case, we have eliminated almost all of our household debt…

 
 
 
Comment by hip in zilker
2010-04-12 08:02:50

From today’s Austin American-Statesman article “Amenities for Lease” :

As far as finishes, he says “granite is the new Formica” in apartments, good for property owners because it’s hard-wearing, attractive and low-maintenance for renters.

Luxury gone banal …

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-04-12 08:08:12

Did they mention how the radioactive emissions kil germs?

Comment by hip in zilker
2010-04-12 15:54:30

They left that out, and how they destroy sperm too.

Comment by drumminj
2010-04-12 23:32:36

They left that out, and how they destroy sperm too.

so you’re saying I don’t have to convince my g/f that she doesn’t want kids, but just need to hang out in the kitchen more?! Sweet!!!

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Comment by pressboardbox
2010-04-12 08:09:19

I now realize that I no longer see very well. That explains all my typos. Sorry.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2010-04-12 08:10:16

CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASH!

That was the sound of housing prices collapsing in your neighborhood.

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-04-12 08:21:30

Not while Goldman Sachs is still President of the United States. (Note: Obama is just the prompter-reader for Goldman)

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2010-04-12 08:21:52

PB (too much up top to keep track of)

“Is my memory fading, or was it just a couple of days ago that he posted about how he could barely stand his position any more and was contemplating a move?”

I want to be clear: I love education, and I am o.k. with staying in Florida. The part that I could barely stand was legislation that would make what I do pointless. I choose to work with struggling schools and students becuase that is what I have a passion for. The State of Florida wants to base my pay on student test scores. That new bill, combined with my injury (not complaining, just stating a fact), made me consider if it’s all worth it. I want to keep working with at-risk kids, buit what’s the point if I am only going to make $25k/yr. and need a cane to walk?

The irony in our disagreements is that I spend most of my day showing children the joy of using science to solve problems, not just in science disciplines, but in their own lives.

As for RE, you treat this like it’s teeball, and when you decide, you’re going to step up to that plate and knock it out of the park. The reailty is that RE is Dwight Gooden on crack, throwing a 120mph spitball and all we all have is our own judgment of when is a good time to swing.

Comment by Muggy
2010-04-12 08:26:30

“Dwight Gooden on crack, throwing a 120mph spitball”

That “reminds” me, WHERE *has DinOR been lately?

 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-04-12 08:36:41

So roll your dice and move your mice. 100% certainty is a myth that occurs in magazines, movies, and revisionist history texts.

Everyone here is handling this event in their own way. Some will be winners and some will be losers. Ten and 25 year HBB reunions would be most helpful and incredibly fascinating.

Comment by Muggy
2010-04-12 09:34:09

“Ten and 25 year HBB reunions would be most helpful and incredibly fascinating.”

You’re right. PBear will still be renting next to sex offenders “to keep his overhead down.” I’m sure his wife will be praising all of his prudent financial diecsions with wanton disregard to tangible quality of life issues.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2010-04-12 11:13:28

LOL! +1

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-04-12 11:17:56

Now, now - that’s not quite what I meant to insinuate. PB is doing his best, just as you are, just as we all are.

Ex: I bought last in 2003. At the time I bought much, much less than I could have. Back then there was no way of knowing how it would turn out for me. Truth is, I’ve already lost a lot of (my own) money if need to sell soon, and I may need to do just that. OTOH, I should be able to live to fight another day. So whatever you do, do it in good spirit and plan*, plan, plan, and plan some more. And then go back and plan a little more.

* plan does not mean pointless agonizing, it means asking pointed, direct questions - ranging from the type of plumbing to the health of the local muni gov’t. (two things I didn’t do - ouch!)

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Comment by SV guy
2010-04-12 17:26:37

:)

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 15:27:22

“As for RE, you treat this like it’s teeball, and when you decide, you’re going to step up to that plate and knock it out of the park. The reailty is that RE is Dwight Gooden on crack, throwing a 120mph spitball and all we all have is our own judgment of when is a good time to swing.”

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that one. I expect home prices to bottom out in most places at the historical purchase-to-rent ratios of 100-120 which have been reached at the end of every other housing bust in the history of U.S. real estate. By contrast, you seem to think this time is different, or perhaps home prices are already at a level of 100-120 times income in your neighborhood, or you just don’t care. A quick back of the envelope calculation for our area suggests the current home price to rental ratio is around
$450,000/$2,300 = 195 — i.e., there is a long way down from here.

At any rate, sorry I gave you a hard time this morning; I truly respect anyone’s housing decision, so long as it makes sense for their personal circumstances.

Comment by Muggy
2010-04-12 17:01:15

“I expect home prices to bottom out in most places at the historical purchase-to-rent ratios of 100-120 which have been reached at the end of every other housing bust in the history of U.S. real estate. By contrast, you seem to think this time is different.”

No, there is no contrast. We agree, but what you haven’t addressed, or maybe what I haven’t emphasized, is time. What are you going to do between now and when prices reach historical levels?

I expect the type of house I want in Pinellas to fall another 30%, but I also believe that will take 5-7 years, in which time I will have spent $108,000k on rent. Since my offer is $215 (still pending bank approval), a 30% decrease makes the house worth around $150k in 2017.

I *know* now is not the *best* time to by, but by my calculations it’s not the *worst*, either. I also believe you post with a CA bias, and I post with a FL bias. The bust has mostly ravaged FL and life is slowly moving forward (and by moving forward, I mean a prolonged grind down to historical levels).

Comment by Muggy
2010-04-12 17:02:41

BTW, this is the house we offered $210 on, and it closed for $247.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/590-Sandy-Hook-Rd-Palm-Harbor-FL-34683/2133003772_zpid/

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 23:16:42

“What are you going to do between now and when prices reach historical levels?”

Waiting for:

1) Expiration of first time buyers tax credit

2) Aftermath of end of Fed’s MBS purchase program
(e.g. ‘higher than expected’ mortgage rates)

3) Shocked expressions on FB’s faces when they learn that yes, home prices do have farther to fall from here

4) Blood in the streets

5) Many heard to say, “Real estate is the worst investment”

Capiche?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-04-12 23:18:09

Almost forgot:

6) Collapse or bailout of California economy

7) Massive shadow inventory dump depresses housing prices by “more than expected”

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 10:09:34

“The Worst of All Worlds”: Fannie and Freddie Losses “Can’t Be Calculated,” Posner Says
by Aaron Task

Government officials want you to know the cost of the bank bailout is going to be around $90 billion, much less than previously feared. But there is, as The Wall Street Journal put it, “one glaring exception” to this otherwise welcome news: The optimistic tally doesn’t include Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Technically, that’s two glaring exceptions, but let’s not split hairs. The troubled mortgage giants currently enjoy an unlimited line of credit from Uncle Sam, and the CBO projects their investment portfolios — stuffed with subprime and other toxic mortgages — will suffer combined losses of $370 billion through 2020.

“I don’t think it’s time to celebrate [because] the losses inside Fannie and Freddie can’t be calculated,” says Kenneth Posner, author of Stalking the Black Swan. “Not only do we have those [CBO estimated] losses but we still have $5 trillion in mortgage-backed securities that they guarantee and $2 to $3 trillion in debt. All of this is potentially on the U.S. government’s balance sheet until we figure out how to restructure these entities.”

The GSE’s business model is “broken” but their role in guaranteeing mortgages is still critical to the housing market, says Posner, the former head of Morgan Stanley’s financial services research group. “Once they give their stamp of approval, those securities can then be sold and traded with great liquidity in the capital markets. If you shut that down right now, that would be counterproductive.”

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-04-12 10:29:05

You mean the government is resorting to “accounting tricks” to promote the Recovery? I was promised “transparency”.

Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 10:41:18

“I was promised “transparency”.

What’s funny in a pathetic sort of way is that so many bought into that fairy tale.

The cesspool only knows how to lie, cover up,shuffle nut shells around, and waste other peoples money.

Comment by cobaltblue
2010-04-12 11:22:47

“The cesspool only knows how to lie, cover up, shuffle nut shells around, and waste other peoples money.”

Sounds like something I would have written had I not been so busy adjusting my tinfoil hat; with guns, Bibles and right-wing biases, etc., on my keyboard.

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Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 11:51:00

Well, I was cleaning my .45 and counting the ammo that I hide behind the King James version.

 
 
 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2010-04-12 10:30:21

Can we Trademark “the Recovery”? (the Recovery(tm)).

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-04-12 11:22:05

Is this how it worked?

1. Banks were bailed out with TARP and most of that bailout is being paid back now.

2. But in addition to TARP, the GSE’s bought much of the toxic mortgage assets from the bailed out banks.

Therefore even though banks are paying back TARP, the taxpayer is now responsible for much more potentially bad debt than before TARP?

And since the GSE’s are losing money it’s not just potential bad debt to worry about but the taxpayer is actually losing money now?

Comment by packman
2010-04-12 12:07:12

Yes.

However there’s another glaring exception that the article fails to point out - which is the cost of the Fed MBS purchases. At $1.25 Trillion, that dwarfs the Fannie and Freddie bailouts.

Even though it doesn’t come out directly via “taxes” it does via inflation. Same effect; it’s wealth taken from the general populace and given to those that otherwise would lose the huge profits they made on the frontside of the bubble.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-04-12 12:27:14

the cost of the Fed MBS purchases. At $1.25 Trillion,

1. Did the Fed have this 1.25 Trillion on it’s balance sheet before the purchases of the bank’s bad MBS’s? As “petty cash on hand” or something?

2. If GSE’s and The Fed purchased so many of the banks MBS’s then why could the banks still be in potential trouble? Because there is way more bad assets that the banks still hold even after unloading so many?

Thanks.

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Comment by packman
2010-04-12 13:11:05

1. Did the Fed have this 1.25 Trillion on it’s balance sheet before the purchases of the bank’s bad MBS’s? As “petty cash on hand” or something?

Purely created money, as represented here, and here (noting that that chart’s about 6 months old).


2. If GSE’s and The Fed purchased so many of the banks MBS’s then why could the banks still be in potential trouble? Because there is way more bad assets that the banks still hold even after unloading so many?

Yes. Between 1997 and 2007 residential mortgage debt went from to $3.8 Trillion to $11.2 Trillion in the U.S. A very large portion of this new debt is simply bad - unable to be paid off. It’s hard to say what will be the final tally. That’s only residential - I think commercial is another 20-30% or so roughly.

 
Comment by neuromance
2010-04-12 20:10:40

As long as the dollar continues to buy about the same basket of goods, the populace won’t really care. A neat trick of having a black-box Fed. It can print money, buy toxic debt, keep it behind the curtain, and no one’s the wiser.

Why would this model succeed and Zimbabwe’s fail?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 10:14:07

UN process in danger unless world agrees on climate change.

The United Nation process is in danger of collapsing unless countries are able to agree on the best way to stop global warming by the end of this year, the outgoing head of climate change negotiations has warned.
Published: 5:29PM BST 11 Apr 2010

More than 170 UN countries gathered in Bonn this weekend for the first meeting on climate change since talks ended in chaos in Copenhagen at the end of last year.

Yvo de Boer, the head of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC), which is leading the talks, said small progress was made on technical issues.

He said officials will meet at least three more times before a final meeting of ministers in Cancun, Mexico at the end of the year where it is hoped the world will finally reach an agreement on the best way to stop catastrophic warming.

Comment by packman
2010-04-12 10:29:43

“The United Nations process”??? WTF is that?

 
Comment by michael
2010-04-12 10:33:30

watch the documentary…”the cove” and you will see that getting 170 nations to agree on anything is an impossibility.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2010-04-12 11:17:01

End of this year? Al Gore said we had only 100 days to save the planet. He said that at least six months ago, so we’re doomed.

Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 12:04:35

That’s right, I had forgotten ‘Ol Al gave us 100 days until ecological Armageddon.

Where is Al now days? Perhaps he out on his new 100ft. hamster powered house boat.

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Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 10:51:21

Posner: Govt. Can’t Prevent a Crisis But That Doesn’t Mean Taxpayers Have to Pay the Price
Apr 12, 2010 by Peter Gorenstein in Investing, Recession, Banking

Tech Ticker has talked to many guests recently about ways to prevent the next crisis, including Simon Johnson and Roger Lowenstein.

Today’s guest is Kenneth Posner, the former head of financial services research at Morgan Stanley and author of Staking the Black Swan. He says no matter the extent of regulation, the threat of crisis will always exist.

“The worst thing that Americans can do, would be to assume the government can protect them from crisis and make crises go away,” Posner states, declaring “crisis is the price we pay for innovation.”

Posner says it’s the government’s role to react quickly to crisis, minimize the damage and prevent taxpayers from footing the bill. He suggests two ways of accomplishing this goal of reducing the ‘price’ of innovation:

– Create a group of regulators, be it at the Fed or some other institution, who constantly monitor market conditions looking for potential risks. “I don’t think they could ever stop a boom in its tracks but if they’re anticipating the risk they could draw up contingency plans,” he says.

– Force banks to create contingent capital. “Make systemically important financial institutions issue a form of sub debt that automatically converts to equity in the event of a crisis,” Posner says. This would result in quicker crisis resolution and avoid the need for a taxpayer bailout.

Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 16:49:27

Uh, he’s a little late with this.

Naive too.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 11:44:27

Delinquent loans jump 21.3%
Jacksonville Business Journal - Monday, April 12, 2010

Delinquent loans jumped 21.3 percent in February compared with a year earlier, according to the latest Mortgage Monitor report released by Lender Processing Services Inc. Monday.

Florida beat all other states in its percentage of foreclosed inventory and noncurrent loans to active loans during the same period.

The Jacksonville company (NYSE: LPS) provides mortgage processing and technology services and has about a 70 percent share of the loan market and 40 percent of the real estate owned or foreclosed loans nationwide.

There were nearly 8 million noncurrent loans plus foreclosed loans nationwide at the end of February, up 26 percent from a year earlier. However, the total was down from January by less than 1 percent.

The percentages of problem loans as well as new problem loans were at a five-year high at the end of February.

More than 1.1 million loans that were current at the beginning of January were at least 30 days delinquent or in foreclosure by the end of February.

Florida topped all other states with a foreclosed inventory of 11.4 percent, and the highest percentage of noncurrent loans at 23.8 percent of active loans. The national percentage of delinquent loans was 10.2 percent, whereas Florida had 12.4 percent, which tied with Arizona as the fourth highest rate nationwide.

Other states with high rates of noncurrent loans as a percentage of active loans were Arizona, California, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Mississippi, Nevada, New Jersey and Ohio. The states with the fewest noncurrent loans were Alaska, Colorado, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington and Wyoming.

Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 11:45:38

The green shoots just keep on sprouting up!

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 11:51:54

Other states with high rates of noncurrent loans as a percentage of active loans were Arizona, California, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Mississippi, Nevada, New Jersey and Ohio. The states with the fewest noncurrent loans were Alaska, Colorado, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington and Wyoming.

Here in Tucson, I’m noticing more vacant houses sporting NOTS papers.

 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2010-04-12 11:55:12

Total Crap:

My GF’s ex is in the Air Farce and is a desk-jockey who has never been deployed anywhere. He is moving to CA from FL and recently learned that he is an FB who bought the tippy-top in ‘06 and is currently underwater by over $150k (more than 50%). Looks like the taxpayers are going to make him whole:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/05/14/Military-home-assistance-program-expanded/UPI-64201242344681/

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 12:35:08

Air Farce. I like that.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2010-04-12 12:49:19

Have an acquaintance in the Air Force. He got out some years ago and flew for United until they laid him off, so he went back to the military. A few years later United recalls him, at a much lower wage. He politely declined, as his compensation in the military is much better, plus he was able to get his wife a cushy job with the USDA in Ft. Collins even though she had no experience other than a Masters degree in IT that she had hastily earned.

 
Comment by rms
2010-04-12 22:15:32

The REMFs should be at the end of the list, IMHO.

 
 
Comment by measton
2010-04-12 11:58:53

host.madison.com/wsj/business/article_f944322c-465a-11df-bfe9-001cc4c03286.html

Wisconsin set a foreclosure record in March, while Dane County’s total was the second highest ever.

Foreclosure filings in Dane County were up 42 percent in March compared to a year ago, with 180 new filings compared to 127 in March 2009, according to court records compiled by DaneCountyMarket.com.

Statewide, foreclosures increased a little more than 7 percent in March, with 2,870 compared to 2,678 a year ago. The previous high for the state was in July, when 2,757 were filed.

Year-to-date through March, filings in Dane County increased 16 percent, with 455 filings compared to 393 in the same period in 2009. Statewide, filings increased 4 percent through March, with 7,852 filings compared to 7,545 a year ago.

Dane County foreclosure activity has steadily increased over the past five years. The 1,695 foreclosures in 2009 represented a 302 percent increase from the 422 registered in 2004.

Nationally, through the end of February, the total number of delinquent loans was 21.3 percent higher than the same period last year, according to the latest Mortgage Monitor report released by Lender Processing Services. Although the data showed a small seasonal decline in delinquencies from January to February, the national delinquency rate still stood at 10.2 percent.

More than 1.1 million loans in the U.S. that were current at the beginning of January were already at least 30 days delinquent or in foreclosure by the end of February. The total number of non-current first-lien mortgages and bank-owned properties is now more than 7.9 million loans, Lender Processing Services said.

 
Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 12:07:37

Just got a 0% for 12 months offer from Chase Bank today. Hadn’t received one of those for many months. I guess they are back to trolling again.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 12:37:15

I lo-o-ove getting those credit card troll-letters!

They provide me with an opportunity to practice my “scribble all over the application” skills. The I put my artwork into the post-paid envelopes and fire ‘em right back at the credit card trolls.

Best free entertainment in town.

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 12:13:19

DOW hits 11,000.

Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 12:31:45

Yep, it’s all good… Party on!

 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-04-12 12:40:45

“More than 1.1 million loans in the U.S. that were current at the beginning of January were already at least 30 days delinquent or in foreclosure by the end of February.”

From meatson’s post above…just to provide a little context for that 11,000 DOW.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 16:51:48

Closed at 11,005

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 12:27:58

I think Martin is correct, but I have no idea what makes him or anyone think that D.C. would put the breaks on spending. Not in the cards as I see it.

Our leaders still haven’t heard us! ~ Martin Weiss

Despite all our petitions and protests, Washington is still spending MORE … borrowing MORE … and printing MORE than ever before.

Look. Most people know that the federal budget deficit nearly quadrupled last year — from around $400 billion in 2008 to more than $1.4 trillion in 2009. What they may not realize is that …

In 2010, our nation’s red ink is more than TWICE as bad as the worst deficit during the Great Depression — an explosive force that would normally drive interest rates through the roof.

But the Federal Reserve has temporarily shielded the American public from surging interest rates by buying up nearly one and a half TRILLION dollars in bonds — financing the deficit with paper money.

If the Fed continues on this reckless path, inflation will explode and your dollar will be destroyed. And if the Fed does NOT finance the huge deficits, interest rates will surge.
Either way, there is only real solution: We must STOP the administration and Congress from spending and borrowing us into oblivion.

We must stop our leaders from stealing from future generations to finance and perpetuate the excesses of present generations … from sacrificing America’s future potential and stability on the altar of present expediency … from piling up more debt to deal with meltdowns caused by too much debt in the first place … from creating new financial bubbles to overcome the consequences of prior financial busts.

There’s no other way to say it. If America’s leaders aren’t forced stop this insanity immediately, the U.S. economy may never recover from the resulting disaster.

Comment by measton
2010-04-12 13:39:31

If the Fed continues on this reckless path, inflation will explode and your dollar will be destroyed. And if the Fed does NOT finance the huge deficits, interest rates will surge.

Either way housing is going down. Massive inflation when incomes are fixed and rising interest rates when people are unemployed both lead to collapsing real estate.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-04-12 14:01:43

Enough of the whining about the “deficit”. Governments worldwide are going to keep printing money, which is never going to make it into circulation. It’s going to be traded back and forth between the Investment Banks, so they can book paper “profits”, while the government continues to collect taxes on the “profits”.

Any attempt to reduce the deficit using old-paradigm ways-of-thinking, is just going to end up with mobs holding pitchforks and torches, and we all know that THAT isn’t likely to happen, contrary to the tea-bagger rants.

The “deficit” is like the NFL salary cap. A made up number that is ignored by the PTB, until they need an excuse to force austerity measures upon the krill, or need an excuse to NOT sign a high-priced free agent (….Yeah, we wanted to sign him, but we couldn’t fit his salary under the “cap”……).

We traded 800 billion dollars of worthless dollars to the Chinese, for 800 billion dollars of worthless crap. Sounds like an even swap to me. What are they going to do with it? They can’t “dump” the dollar; because the second they do, the price of everything they want to exchange them for goes thru the roof, thus devaluing whatever they still own. If they try to exchange them for US assets that are actually worth anything, the US government will suddenly decide that they are “strategic assets”, and that a little protectionism is okay after all.

So there it sits, just a number with a bunch of zeros on a computer screen. Can’t do a thing with it. Sort of like the “assets” sitting on balance sheets around the world. Nobody is going to collect or foreclose on them anytime soon. There aren’t enough tangible “assets” in existence to soak up the money already printed.

And there is no way in hell that it will make it’s way into the pockets of the krill, because putting that money in circulation would be “socialism”, and we all know how hard the Wall Street boys “worked” to “earn” that money.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 13:02:16

Lacking state funding, Census response rates lag.

OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) - State and local governments hammered by the recession have cut spending on outreach for the 2010 U.S. Census, leaving hard-to-reach neighborhoods with response rates that may fall behind the count a decade ago, officials said.

The funding cutbacks have come at all levels, and at a cost.

California, for example, dedicated $24.7 million to the Census 2000 campaign. Although an undercount could cost the state billions in federal funding and a Congressional seat, this year’s outreach budget is only $2 million.

Two weeks into the count, the state’s census form return rates are about 10 percent behind the 2000 total, officials said, adding that the numerical disparity would be worse without the efforts of philanthropic and community-based organizations.

“We need to make a push to make sure we at least stay even,” said Louis Stewart, deputy director of California’s census outreach. “There is a lot riding on this count.”

More than $435 billion a year is distributed by the federal government to states based on census-driven funding formulas. California could lose about $3,000 a year for each resident not counted in the 2010 census.

The 2000 census found 33.9 million people in the state. It is estimated that the population will exceed 38 million in 2010.

Residents have until April 19 to mail back their census forms. After that, their answers will have to be collected by census workers going door to door at considerable expense.

 
Comment by cobaltblue
2010-04-12 13:18:34

Is the President’s resume accurate when it comes to his career and qualifications? I can corroborate that Obama’s “teaching career” at Chicago was, to put it kindly, a sham.

I spent some time with the highest tenured faculty member at Chicago Law a few months back, and he did not have many nice things to say about “Barry.” Obama applied for a position as an adjunct and wasn’t even considered. A few weeks later the law school got a phone call from the Board of Trustees telling them to find him an office, put him on the payroll, and give him a class to teach. The Board told him he didn’t have to be a member of the faculty, but they needed to give him a temporary position. He was never a professor and was hardly an adjunct.

The other professors hated him because he was lazy, unqualified, never attended any of the faculty meetings, and it was clear that the position was nothing more than a political stepping stool. According to my professor friend, he had the lowest intellectual capacity in the building. He also doubted whether he was legitimately an editor on the Harvard Law Review, because if he was, he would be the first and only editor of an Ivy League law review to never be published while in school (publication is or was a requirement).

Consider this:
1. President Barack Obama, former editor of the Harvard Law Review, is no longer a “lawyer”. He surrendered his license back in 2008 possibly to escape charges that he “fibbed” on his bar application.

2. Michelle Obama “voluntarily surrendered” her law license in 1993.

3. So, we have the President and First Lady - who don’t actually have licenses to practice law. Facts.

4. A senior lecturer is one thing. A fully ranked law professor is another. According to the Chicago Sun-Times, “Obama did NOT ‘hold the title’ of a University of Chicago law school professor”. Barack Obama was NOT a Constitutional Law professor at the University of Chicago.

5. The University of Chicago released a statement in March, 2008 saying Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) “served as a professor” in the law school, but that is a title Obama, who taught courses there part-time, never held, a spokesman for the school confirmed in 2008.

6. “He did not hold the title of professor of law,” said Marsha Ferziger Nagorsky, an Assistant Dean for Communications and Lecturer in Law at the University of Chicago School of Law.

7. The former Constitutional senior lecturer cited the U.S. Constitution recently during his State of the Union Address. Unfortunately, the quote he cited was from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.

8. The B-Cast posted the video.

9. In the State of the Union Address, President Obama said: “We find unity in our incredible diversity, drawing on the promise enshrined in our Constitution: the notion that we are all created equal.”

10. By the way, the promises are not a notion, our founders named them unalienable rights. The document is our Declaration of Independence and it reads: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

11. And this is the same guy who lectured the Supreme Court moments later in the same speech?

When you are a phony it’s hard to keep facts straight.

(From Doug Ross @ Journal)

Comment by measton
2010-04-12 13:37:11

Cobalt

I don’t have a problem with you bashing policy but this kind of bs is a waste. Give it a rest, for better or worse he won. Bash his policy, I have, but stay out of the tabloids or the crazy birthers PR.

PS he lectured the Supreme Court for allowing corporate America to give unlimited campaign contributions to our politicians something I think most on the left and the right would agree is not good for the health of our democracy.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-04-12 14:12:13

Politicians “phony”?

What a shock.

As far as the “highly tenured faculty member at Chicago Law” is concerned, if he had something to say about Obama’s qualifications/resume, he should have been saying it before the election. Preferably “for the record”, instead of hiding behind anonymity. All he had to do was call Faux News, or the Wall Street Journal. Did anyone attempt to do so?

(sound of crickets chirping)

Yeah, that’s what I thought.

 
Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 14:15:59

Seems to me Doug Ross is wasting his time. Barry is what he is, the president. Can’t change that, I think anyone that is all wrapped up in politics would be better off focusing their attention to cleaning out the 535 and lobbyists.

Our country has been on the wrong track for decades, and the 535 are steadily running us down.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 15:02:12

I seem to recall reading that Andrew Jackson killed at least one man in a duel before he became President. And Warren G. Harding was so overwhelmed by the job that he’d cry about to his Oval Office visitors. And don’t get me started on Richard Nixon.

So, in short, we have a long history of imperfect Presidents. Some of whom were deeply flawed individuals.

Comment by packman
2010-04-12 18:49:17

If AJ was imperfect he would have lost the duel, no?

Alexander Hamilton - now there was an imperfect person.

:-)

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Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 13:38:37

Eudora — Four hundred pounds of beef jerky cools in the stainless steel smoker in the back room.

In the front room, Tom Pyle grabs a seat at the employee lunch table, while son Pat wipes it clean from a homemade meal that his mother had brought them, as she does each day.
Eudora meat company to close after 50 years

The Pyle Meat Co. has been a family operation since it opened, but a drop in jerky sales is forcing it to close. Enlarge video
Tom Pyle, left, watches his son Tom Pyle Jr. package some of the last beef jerky Thursday at Pyle Meat Co. in Eudora. The company was in business for 50 years but is closing its doors as a result of the recession.

Tom Pyle, left, watches his son Tom Pyle Jr. package some of the last beef jerky Thursday at Pyle Meat Co. in Eudora. The company was in business for 50 years but is closing its doors as a result of the recession.

“Cherokee Fiddle” — an old Johnny Lee song — plays on the radio. The lyrics are about a bygone era. So too, it seems, is this.
Tom Pyle looks over a rack of jerky that is cooling, some of the last 400 pounds the company made this week. Pyle Meat Company in Eudora is making its last batch of beef jerky and sausage before closing up shop.

Tom Pyle looks over a rack of jerky that is cooling, some of the last 400 pounds the company made this week. Pyle Meat Company in Eudora is making its last batch of beef jerky and sausage before closing up shop.

“A lot of times,” Pyle says, “when people have something like this happen, they blame the bank or somebody. But I’m not blaming anybody. I’m just saying it is a sign of the times. It is what’s happening.”
One of Pyle Meat Company’s staple items, the Hombre Beef Jerky, sits on racks to cool. The company in Eudora is making closing up shop after 50 years in business.

One of Pyle Meat Company’s staple items, the Hombre Beef Jerky, sits on racks to cool. The company in Eudora is making closing up shop after 50 years in business.

The cooling jerky is the last batch for Eudora-based Pyle Meat Co. The company has been in business since 1959. Since the late 1970s, it has been making a name for itself by selling Hombre beef jerky and smoked sausages at convenience and grocery stores throughout the Lawrence, Topeka and Kansas City area.

But this nationwide recession has tempered the flames of backyard grills everywhere and has left many a lunch pail unused. Pyle now says what many business owners have felt — this recession has been unlike any other.

“It has been far worse than any other, maybe twice as worse,” Pyle says. “This time it hit almost all at once. I kept thinking it will be all right, it will be all right. But I was wrong. It’s not.”

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-04-12 13:50:47

Jerky? I love the stuff!

I used to buy it from a grass-fed beef producer, but the long-time drought in Southern Arizona really put a crimp in her business. I think she may have even gone out of business.

As for the grilling, I’m noticing a lot less of it in this nabe. Especially next door. They were grill fiends up until the end of ‘07. Then, I suspect, Arizona’s tough new employer sanctions law encouraged a lot of their friends/relatives/other “here for the beer” party-hearties to move elsewhere.

Oh, I might add that the guy who used to live next door made a brief appearance this morn. Saw his big ole pickup parked on the street, and that was for about a half hour. Probably over there to pick up the toothbrush he forgot to take with him last week.

This end of the block is so much more serene without him!

Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 14:03:46

Jerky? I love the stuff!

As do I!

I knew a fellow that made venison jerky, I’ve never been a venison fan but man that fellows jerky was great!

Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-04-12 14:15:49

Try buffalo jerky. Not nearly as greasy as stuff made from cow.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by SV guy
2010-04-12 17:44:07

Elk jerky is pretty damn good too!

 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 16:58:38

“…Then, I suspect, Arizona’s [b]tough new employer sanctions [/b]law encouraged a lot of their friends/relatives/other “here for the beer” party-hearties to move elsewhere….”

Could you elaborate?

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 13:42:47

Mortgage brokerage firms closing in face of new rules
News Business Reporter / Buffalo News

Dozens of mortgage brokerage firms locally and around the state have thrown in the towel in recent months, as the days of easy credit that super-sized the mortgage industry fade into the past.

Brokers say they have been frustrated by increased regulation, bad publicity and rising costs that have hampered their ability to make a profit.

Over the past year, firms such as Twinstar Mortgage, MultiSource Funding in Cheektowaga, Adelphi Financial Group of Cheektowaga, Alexis Funding of Williamsville, Expert Funding in Hamburg and Creekside Funding in Elma have surrendered their licenses to the state, as have some in Rochester.

The firms’ owners and employees have either gone with other, larger firms, switched over to work directly at banks or left the business entirely rather than deal with added hassles.

“It’s not as fun as it used to be,” said Brian Feldman, former owner of Expert Funding until he folded the nine-year-old firm and joined G.F. Brooks Associates as a loan officer.

“There’s a disincentive to stay in business,” said Ronald Michnik, owner of Independent Funding Service in Orchard Park. “A lot of good people have left the mortgage industry completely.”

http://www.buffalonews.com/2010/04/10/1015432/mortgage-brokerage-firms-closing.html

Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 16:59:58

Yeah, it’s kinda tough without NINJAs, ain’t it?

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-04-12 14:18:12

Area home sales up 22% in March, trade group says
Charleston, S.C. April 12, 2010

Local home sales increased at a double-digit pace again last month, marking another sign of stability for the real estate industry.

Preliminary data from the Charleston Trident Association of Realtors released today showed that 691 homes sold in March, up 22 percent from the same month a year ago.

The median price was $185,000 in March, even with the corresponding figure for 2009.

Year to date, home sales volume is up 23 percent over the first quarter of 2009.

“The activity in the early months of 2010 is incredibly encouraging — every month, we’re seeing sustainable growth in home sales and prices are holding steady” said Jeremy Willits, the association’s president.

Sales have been helped by low interest rates and a federal tax credit being offered to home buyers until April 30.

Inventory in the Charleston area remains high, with 9,849 active listings on the market as of March 31.

 
Comment by neuromance
2010-04-12 19:42:22

The Fed is more like Fannie, a GSE, rather than a government agency.

True?

Comment by ecofeco
2010-04-12 20:08:50

The Fed is unique. Look it up on Wikipedia.

Comment by rms
2010-04-12 22:08:00

Almost xenophobic!

 
 
 
Comment by neuromance
2010-04-12 19:59:36

You know, I hear absolutely relentless cheerleading for real estate purchasing on the local radio stations, and even in the papers. It’s almost as though there’s been an embargo on bad news. They have realtors and financial industry representatives on all the time cheerleading the market. There are very few places indeed which document any actual problems in the real estate market. Especially odd, considering that the high unemployment and global credit slowdown is based on bad mortgage loans.

Comment by combotechie
2010-04-12 20:26:11

“You know, I hear absolutely relentless cheerleading for real estate purchasing on the local radio stations.”

Radio stations? Newspapers? Aren’t both major conduits of the MSM?

My, what a surprise.

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2010-04-12 21:46:51

Realtors last stand. I went to a meeting of investors today and all of the realtors and mtg brokers in attendance were in agreement that the tax credit will end (and not be replaced) at month’s end.

I wanted to chime in that this could be huge, since most reports I’ve read (thanks HBB) have suggested that upwards of 70% of all recent mortgagors have been first time buyers, presumably in large part trying to get the credit…

 
 
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