Money That’s Not Ever Coming Back In Florida
The Miami Herald reports from Florida. “Continuing a months-long slide, South Florida home prices inched down in February. Some experts say the latest pricing figures indicate a leveling off in the tumultuous real-estate market. ‘Pretty much we’ve reached a plateau where things have bottomed out,’ said Jack Winston, an analyst with Goodkin Consulting. ‘I think it’s a question of how long we stay at that plateau.”’
NBC Miami. “According to a recent study prepared for the Miami Downtown Development Authority, occupancy in Miami’s Brickell area went from a dismal 68% last year to 74% and climbing this year. Jesse Ottley, sales manager at The Viceroy, said the deals are just too good to pass up. ‘The time to buy is now,’ said Ottley.”
“The Viceroy boasts amenities fit for the rich and famous, but with bargain prices slashed in half. Two bedroom units that once averaged $700,000 are now $350,000-$450,000, and single bedrooms now average $250,000-$300,000. Nonetheless, the Miami market remains deeply troubled. Of the 22,000 new condo units built since 2003, 7,000 remain unsold.”
From CBS 4. “A new tactic in dealing with foreclosed condo units is being used by one attorney in South Florida. Ana Martinez is slowly watching her apartment building deteriorate with the housing crisis. Standing on her front porch she told CBS4’s David Sutta, ‘We don’t even feel safe living here anymore.’”
“With just half the building’s unit owners paying their association dues, Ana is left picking up the tab: $417 a month. Martinez said she’s ‘frustrated, I am to the point of giving up.’”
“Banks that own the mortgage on the apartment though take priority, and across South Florida banks are stalling to foreclosure. Attorney Ben Solomon of the Association Law Group explained, ‘The bottom line is the banks don’t want to assume the liability associated with the unit, including the obligation to pay maintenance assessments to the association. The bank has to make a decision as to if they are going to take title to the financially upside down unit, or release their mortgage,’ said Solomon.”
“He demanded Citibank to foreclose on unit 14 in Martinez’s building. Surprisingly, instead of an 18 month legal fight, Citibank wrote off the debt, and handed the title over. Jason Schoenholtz with Regatta Management took CBS4 inside the unit. ‘Yeah it’s completely abandoned. It look like somebody just ran out the door and left everything behind,’ Schoenholtz said, as he walked around the dilapidated apartment. The association now owns this two bedroom apartment. It needs work, but Schoenholtz believes they can sell it.”
From WINK News. “Lee County is spending millions to rehab vacant or foreclosed homes. The $18 million Neighborhood Stabilization Project aims to bring new life to areas blighted by vacant, foreclosed homes. Lee County bought 16 abandoned town homes, which it plans to rehab and sell to low-income families. But some neighbors are upset, saying the county is trying to make their neighborhood ‘the slums of Southwest Florida.’”
“‘This was our American dream,’ Thomas Wickizer said. They’re talking about 16 vacant townhouses, soon-to-be home for 16 low-income families. ‘That’s gonna ruin our property values,’ Wickizer said.”
From CNBC. “When Betsy Seligman bought a home in a 55-and-over community just outside then-booming Fort Myers, Fla., three years ago, she thought she had found her retirement paradise. Her hopes turned into a bad dream, however, when the development’s builder, Levitt and Sons, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in November 2007 and halted construction. Seligman and the roughly 100 other retirees there spent the next two-and-a-half years living in the sparsely built subdivision with none of the promised amenities like pools and tennis courts.”
“‘We have a few people who just walked out of their houses, but we’ve maintained the community in that time, and we’ve just been hopeful that it would turn around,’ says Seligman. Home values in the development have plummeted nearly 50 percent since the bankruptcy filing, she adds.”
“But Seligman and her neighbors now see a ray of light. A unit of Weston, Fla.-based developer Pinnacle Cascades purchased the retirement community earlier this month and plans to bring the project back to life. ‘We’re delighted of course,’ says Seligman, though she is waiting for more details.”
ABC News Money. “‘Government handouts.’ That’s what Anna Aquino, 31, a homeowner in Kissimmee, Fla., calls her state’s latest plan to help residents pay off their mortgages. Aquino, whose own home has lost $30,000 in value since she bought it during the boom, says Washington’s $418 million mortgage assistance for distressed homeowners in Florida is spoiling Americans into constantly expecting help.”
“‘It’s not up to our government to bail out every hard-hit person,’ she says of Florida’s proposal, which is currently under review by the U.S. Treasury and is expected to take effect later this summer. ‘Whatever happened to the American spirit of trying to pick ourselves up from our boot-straps?’”
“Alex Pollock, former CEO of Federal Home Loan Bank of Chicago and now a research fellow at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, says using TARP money to bail out homeowners isn’t even legal. ‘The TARP statute authorized the Treasury only to make investments to acquire assets, not just to spend money on subsidies for people,’ he says, arguing that TARP was meant for investments that could yield some kind of return for taxpayers. These programs, however, don’t consitute investments. ‘It’s money that’s not ever coming back.’”
From TC Palm. “Karen Lehmann calls the last 18 months of her life a ‘nightmare.’ Since October 2008, Lehmann has tried to modify the mortgage on her Vero Beach home with Texas-based Litton Loan Services through President Barack Obama’s Making Home Affordable Program. During that time, Lehmann claims she’s had to express mail and fax duplicate paperwork to the company numerous times, stand in front of an Indian River County circuit judge and follow through the precise instructions and stringent payment requirements set forth in a trial modification program twice approved by Litton.”
‘Last month, Lehmann got a letter from Litton, a loan modification servicing company, stating her lender plans to foreclose on the home despite her making five modified mortgage payments under Litton’s modification plan. Litton is owned by global investment and securities firm Goldman Sachs Group Inc. Lehmann’s loan is owned by banking giant JPMorgan Chase & Co.”
“‘They’re selling America out from under Americans,’ Lehmann said. ‘But I have a file five inches thick and I just refuse to give in.’”
“‘Unfortunately, this is quite common. We as Realtors hear the same story on a daily basis with many different owners and banks,’ said Maria Wells, president of the Realtors Association of St. Lucie. ‘If an owner was fortunate enough to be provided a trial modification, it’s not uncommon to have the terms rescinded.’”
“Chris Schneider. a spokesman at the Texas Department of Savings and Mortgage Lending in Austin, said his agency has no jurisdiction over Lehmann’s case because it doesn’t regulate loan modifications in Florida. ‘Litton is a huge servicing company … they do have a lot of complaints, but like other servicing companies, there’s no violation of law or any regulatory violation,’ Schneider said. ‘It’s a sign of the times right now. People can’t always get what they want.’”
The Sun Sentinel. “Stan Humphries, Zillow’s chief economist, points out that the national inventory of for-sale homes increased last month, despite the large number of sales related to the expiring tax credits. Humphries said that little-publicized dynamic ‘does make one at least ponder whether the market is currently capable of clearing itself of inventory without paying people to buy homes.’”
The St Petersburg Times. “Among the 50 states, Florida once again is the mother of mortgage fraud. Soaring rates in the state, specifically of appraisal fraud and misrepresentation, guaranteed Florida retained the No. 1 ranking in 2009 for the fourth year in a row. An annual ranking unveiled Monday by the Mortgage Asset Research Institute found that, given the volume of residential mortgages it originates, Florida had close to three times the expected amount of reported loan fraud and misrepresentation.”
“Nationally, reported incidents of mortgage fraud and misrepresentation by professionals increased 7 percent from 2008, a record year, to 2009. Why did that happen if the housing market by 2009 was in tatters and the volume of mortgages and home sales had declined?”
“Several reasons, MARI said. New technology and changes in the mortgage market created new opportunities to take advantage of consumers. Fraudsters were also motivated to maintain ‘lifestyles obtained during the boom period.’ Consumers who were desperate for the American dream of home ownership remained easy targets. And, MARI said, mortgage fraud was fed by the need for new, creative methods of moving illicit funds.”
“The MARI report says the most common types of appraisal fraud and misrepresentation for loans originated in 2009 involve incorrect (or fabricated) comparables, omitted information affecting a home’s value, and value inflation.”
“Appraisers are under pressure, the report acknowledged, because it’s already tough to complete a home sale given the tight market for mortgages and more conservative financial assessments of potential buyers. Appraisers who do not deliver relevant values fear they may lose future opportunities for business. Some agree to ‘predetermined’ valuations. Still others unfamiliar with certain housing markets, may provide appraisals too high or low to be of use in closing a sale.”
The Times Colonist. “Taxi drivers are endless sources of stories, sometimes exaggerated but always entertaining. My cab driver, an East Indian immigrant who moved to Miami 25 years ago and within three years bought his three-bedroom house for $41,000, relayed the story of a Canadian woman who came to Florida this year in search of real estate bargains.”
“What she found was not quite at the level of two-plus decades ago, but U.S. real estate prices are a steal compared to 2006. In the case of the Canadian, after being taxied around by the cabbie for a day she made an offer on a three-bedroom condominium. It was worth $650,000 at the peak of the Florida (and U.S.) housing bubble.”
“The bank offered it to her for $230,000; she refused and counter-offered with $180,000. The bank accepted. The taxi driver swears the condo, on the beach, will be worth a million bucks in five years.”
“Visit the coastal areas of the United States and a surface look might lead one to believe the Great Recession is over, and that the U.S. is in recovery mode. But a second look will reveal plenty of for-sale signs even in affluent areas but with fewer takers than could normally be expected. There are more supply issues to come as foreclosures push more homes onto the market. In the first three months of this year, a record number of U.S. homes were foreclosed upon — 35 per cent more than in the first quarter of 2009.”
“For Canadians, where our economy is still intimately tied to what’s happening down here, the American housing market is sending a message: Look out below, the U.S. recovery is not a sure bet.”
From Ocala.com. “It has been awhile since real estate sales in Ocala/Marion County could be favorably compared with 2006, the high-rolling height of the housing boom now gone bust. But that is exactly what happened this week when home sales figures for March were released. Real estate market analysts credited two main drivers for the surge in local home sales. First, there are the federal government’s tax credits. Second, the prices are unbeatable - literally. Marion County has the lowest median home prices of any market in Florida, bar none. With the average median price for March at $93,000 - the seventh consecutive month the average has been sub-$100,000 and down 11 percent from a year ago.”
“Part of the reason for such affordable costs, we must point out, is the high number of foreclosures and short sales that have flooded, and distorted, the local real estate markets.”
“It is uplifting news that housing sales are once again comparable to 2006, in total numbers if not in total value. But it also is a reminder of the lessons our community has learned in the aftermath of the housing bubble, not the least of which is that we can never let ourselves become so reliant on a single industry again.”
“No doubt housing will continue to be an important economic driver for decades to come in Ocala/Marion County, but we hope it never regains the stranglehold on our local economy that led, in the words of former Federal Reserve chief Alan Greenspan, to the ‘irrational exuberance’ that caused the housing bubble in 2006. Housing sales might be the only thing that is back to 2006 levels. But we’ll take it.”
“Whatever happened to the American spirit of trying to pick ourselves up from our boot-straps?”
China, India, Mexico.
I’ll tell ya:
We used to value people walking in and asking for a job…now its breaking the rules.
We used to appreciate work, and wages, but now our culture values trading and assets instead. There is more than a passing similarity between the latter items and gambling, just like Goldman Sachs and its peers are analogous to a Las Vegas casino where the house is supposed to always win.
When a boot is firmly planted on your neck, the bootstrap thing has a whole new meaning.
“Pretty much we’ve reached a plateau where things have bottomed out,’ said Jack Winston, an analyst with Goodkin Consulting. ‘I think it’s a question of how long we stay at that plateau.”’
Oh Yeah Winston — Preach It Baybee…
Plateaus to right of them,
Plateaus to left of them,
Plateaus behind them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Storm’d at with BK’s and foreclosures,
While house and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro’ the jaws of Suzanne
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.
Is this the much-vaunted “permanently high plateau?”
Nah…just me, torturing Lord Hennyson and making fun of Winston.
Okey, next Brigade of FB and GF, Front and Center, on Line,
Forward at a trot,
Move to a gallop,
CHARGE !!
Lord Hennyson?
Would that be the child of Lord Tennyson and Henny Youngman? Take my “nature red in tooth and claw”, please!
Well much of Florida has fallen further, faster than the rest of the country. It’s actually possible that they’re fairly close to bottom. OTOH the cab-driver who thinks that a 180k condo will be worth a million dollars in five years is delusional.
You omitted my favorite line from that poem: “someone had blunder’d.”
Here’s a blunder for ya:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/gulf-oil-spill-five-times-worse-than-first-thought-2010-04-29?reflink=MW_news_stmp
Mmm-mmm, that beachfront property is going to turn into a huge stinker.
Drill, baby, drill, boo-YAH!
Yeah…That should just about put to rest the neocon Drill-baby-Drill mantra starting with Kudlow…
You’d think so, but stoopid is as stoopid does.
I really have to laugh, though, when you look at the dems, you see they don’t have an original idea in their arse. They basically have adopted all sorts of failed ideas from the neo-cons. Middle East wars, unfettered illegal immigration, health care, government intrusion and control, Wall Street boot-licking, etc.
Anyone see those “hearings”? Shouldn’t leave ANY doubt as to who really runs things in the US.
I am disgusted with all of them except for maybe a handful…
They basically have adopted all sorts of failed ideas from the neo-cons. Middle East wars, unfettered illegal immigration, health care, government intrusion and control, Wall Street boot-licking, etc.
You left your critical thinking skills in bed today. Afghanistan does not equal Iraq.
Insurance company death panels* does not equal ditching the skim-happy Medicare Advantage.
Unfettered winky-wink-look-away illegal immigration does not equal unfettered legalizing of immigrants (yes, they’re both bad, but they are NOT the same thing).
Supply-side government intrusion does not equal demand-side government intrusion
And if anyone is licking Wall Street boots, just look at who’s making a show of filibustering regulations of Wall Street. It’s not the Dems.
———-
*Who was it that dumped those breast-cancer women off the insurance rolls?
Pardon me. I meant “adapted”, not “adopted”.
And I stand by my take on Mitt Romney. Firmly. Neocons show dems da way.
The commie libs and other assorted marxists in Barry’s administration, as well as Barry himself want the illegas to be given amnesty so they 1) can vote for him in 2012 and 2) get the ‘free’ health care (all 30 mil of them) that he promised on your dime. He also wants to bail out all the losers from foreclosure with subsidies to prop prices up. We need to clear out all the inventory before price stability will occur. He is also asking you to to pay the taxes of the people who are forclosed.
I don’t like Obama’s housing-related policies, at all, but I have read Marx and feel quite comfortable asserting that Obama and his administration are about as Marxist as Eisenhower and Mitt Romney.
When it comes to clearheaded thinking, the Obama administration is not in a league with Karl Marx.
Chico, maybe. But not Karl.
‘Pretty much we’ve reached a plateau where things have bottomed out,’ said Jack Winston…
Excuse me, but isn’t this m-o-r-o-n confusing a “trough” with a “plateau?”
‘Whatever happened to the American spirit of trying to pick ourselves up from our boot-straps?’”
That’s soo 19th. century!
Do they take Visa for bootstraps? What about LINK?
“Taxi drivers are endless sources of stories, sometimes exaggerated but always entertaining. My cab driver, an East Indian immigrant who moved to Miami 25 years ago and within three years bought his three-bedroom house for $41,000, relayed the story of a Canadian woman who came to Florida this year in search of real estate bargains.”
Cabbies are a bad source of real estate info either on the way up, the way down or any other direction. But if you need to get the airport they’re great to have around.
“The taxi driver swears the condo, on the beach, will be worth a million bucks in five years.” I confused, what was he doing in her condo? Also, has this author been fired yet? The most research he or she could do for a financial article on the real estate market was ask the cab driver on the way to who knows where? Appalling given the number of unemployed people in this Country that this person is apparently being paid for their time. What information does this give the reader other than the person that wrote the article essentially did no research at all?
A sure bet there’ll be another leg down. I seem to remember some old story from the Great Depression era about shoe shine boys and stock tips.
In a world where people high enough up the food chain to know something regularly stopped to get their shoes shined on the streets and talked about stocks while they did it, shoe shine boys might not have been a bad source of insider information. You just would have to be able to figure out which shoe shine boys could tell the difference between a person who actually knew something and a person who didn’t.
I prefer to base my reasonable certainty on there being another leg down on the petering out of the effect of the stimulous money, the states and localities hitting the boundaries of their budget constraints and the knowlege that there is no more political will to do another stimulous that will be large enough to matter against those two factors. Can you imagine the local impact in areas around state capitals if 10% or even just 5% of state workers are laid off over 2 years in addition to a lot of contracts not being renewed?
10% or even just 5% of state workers are laid off ??
Thats just trimming a small amount of the fat…The ridiculous pay scales and benefits is the real elephant in the room…
“The most research he or she could do for a financial article on the real estate market was ask the cab driver on the way to who knows where? ”
LOL. That’s even worse than “I’m looking for a house so I’ll do a story on the real estate market…”
“national inventory of for-sale homes increased last month, despite the large number of sales related to the expiring tax credits.”
The place I bought in Palm Beach County Fl. in 1984 for $55,000.00 that I sold in Aug. 2005 for $192,500.00 was just sold again in March 2010 for $55,300.00 So I guess it was one of the large number of sales related to the expiring tax credits.
Today’s the day, Floridians. Charlie Crist will announce his run for Senate as an independent. I’ve razzed him a bit, but I will support him, he’s better than the alteratives.
Which is why I am voting for Rubio. You’re a flaming lib and Christ is a RINO. Good riddance Charlie. Rubio is going to clean his clock.
Bwahahahaha! Rubio? You mean the Rubio whose wife is “The First Lady of the Florida House” (he actually said that, lol) which entitled her to use the pub party’s credit card? Rubio who is being investigated by both the IRS and FBI right now? Rubio who is endorsed by the grand dinosaur neocon trifecta of Dead-Eye, Rudy-doo-doodie and Mitt “The Father of the Individual Mandate” Romney? Heckuva job with that health-care, Mitty-boy! People are such dupes, they’ll blame the dems for health care, when the dems basically adopted the Romney Plan.
I dunno if Rubio’s going to clean anyone’s clock, he might end up making license plates, though.
And, since you seem to be a newbie around here, the fact that you’re calling me a flaming lib is a real gut-buster. Bwawhawhawhawhaw!
Palmy a flaming lib? That is a joke. I don’t think you can pigeonhole anyone. People are grasping at anyone and anything to blame for their own stupid decisions. They will vote against their best interests and cut off their noses to spite their faces. People saying less government, except to tell me what I can and cannot do in the privacy of my own home. People on medicare whining about socialized medicine. Parents wanting to control schools when they are barely raising their own kids. And put enough money in front of most people and they will readily change their positions. done with rant.
What a bunch of dufuses those commie dems are for copy cats. The Mass plan is already upside down. They are looking for cover from J6pk. Who said Romney was an Einstein???
Florida has a closed primary, which means that only registered Republicans can vote in the primary. Yes, Rubio is cleaning Crist’s clock, but ONLY among registered Republicans, which is what, 30% of the Florida population?
The general election will depend on who the Dems put up, if anyone.
“Rubio is cleaning Crist’s clock, but ONLY among registered Republicans”
I’m a *gasp* registered Republican. He’s not cleaning any clocks here. And guess who was one of the folks surveyed by the Quinnipiac Poll that gave Rubio that initial boost? Yep, the Palmster. I had a different opinion of Rubio then. Not sure how many people I “represented” as a sample, but just saying I might have had a little something to do with how the poll turned out.
I’ve changed my mind since the neo-con endorsements. LOL, Romney must have been WILD when Ron Paul won the honors at that conservative straw poll. They didn’t like the results, so they had another where Romney won. LOL! That was the shrub way, if he lost a tennis game, insisted on do-overs until he won.
Kendrick Meeks is the Dem candidate for Senator. You can google him and let me know what you think.
If Crist is better than the alternatives, then Florida is worse off than anyone imagines.
As someone who is still living here, Bill, I can tell you the state could be in a whole lot worse shape than it is.
Good Time Charlie’s the politician’s politician, for sure. And I loved taking a poke at him from time to time for that very reason. But Rubio or Meeks? No thanks.
The instant that I saw Cheney stump for Rubio I immediate sent Crist $50. and now that he will go independent I will likely continue the help…
I was interested in Rubio, until Romney endorsed him. They posted endorsement screen shots of Romney, Dead-Eye, and Rudy side by side last night on the news. All that was missing was Jeb “I work for Lehman” Bush. Whew! A very rogue’s gallery of neocon dinosaurs. I wanted to stick my finger down my throat and upchuck.
Seriously, the three of them looked like they were stuffed and mounted.
And anytime you hear some neocon masquerading as a conservative, be sure to remind them who is REALLY responsible for the monstrosity of a health care bill and government intrusion into our lives: Mitt Romney.
alright now palmy
time to log off that trash 80 & git’ on down to the boiled peanut stand . . .
boy howdy!
Point taken, aqius. I’m just doin’ my Skink imitation today.
“Part of the reason for such affordable costs, we must point out, is the high number of foreclosures and short sales that have flooded, and distorted, the local real estate markets.” How can a market correction and return to historical ratios be called a distortion? The real market distortion was evidenced by the rise in prices during the last decade, not the fall. To the extent distortion currently remains in the market today, it is still on the high side rather than the low side.
“Alex Pollock, former CEO of Federal Home Loan Bank of Chicago and now a research fellow at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, says using TARP money to bail out homeowners isn’t even legal. ‘The TARP statute authorized the Treasury only to make investments to acquire assets, not just to spend money on subsidies for people,’ he says, arguing that TARP was meant for investments that could yield some kind of return for taxpayers. These programs, however, don’t consitute investments. ‘It’s money that’s not ever coming back.’”
Err…Ooops…”aquire assets?”
I think a few bankers grabbed the TARP money and bought US Treasuries to be safe so I guess that counts.
In the first paragraph, there is that word again that drives me nuts just seeing it. Plateau.
Some experts say the latest pricing figures indicate a leveling off in the tumultuous real-estate market. “Pretty much we’ve reached a plateau where things have bottomed out,” said Jack Winston, an analyst with Goodkin Consulting. “I think it’s a question of how long we stay at that plateau.”
I find it interesting with a simple search, I find this on Jack. “He has held senior management positions with the largest homebuilders in the world, and owned one of the largest homebuilding companies in the Miami area”
You dont think he would have any special interest outside of his anayst job in making the market look as if it has bottomed do you? Naaahhhh.
Wow, I didn’t see this before I posted my own irritation with the use of the word “plateau”.
Since it’s LOWER than the surrouding terrain, wouldn’t playa be a better descriptor than plateau?
Since this is Florida with everybody underwater, I’d vote for “trench” rather than plateau. But “sink hole” might also apply. In either case, no reason to think we have found the bottom, much less that crawling out again might be an option.
I think ‘well’ is the correct word.
And now this guy is trying to convince us that since we’ve had splashdown and we’re now treading water, obviously the worst is over.
Never mind that once our arms and legs get tired, there’s a whole other sinking about to happen. Too bad we have the rock of Alt-A loans tied around our ankles or we MIGHT have been able to tread water long enough for someone to lower the inflation rope to us.
How about “aquafer” instead? It’s both underground and underwater.
Well the problem with many of those terms is that imply terrain that is minimal in area, which by analogy would mean a period of decline in RE prices that is minimal. But in my opinion, and the opinion of many posters here, in areas with an oversupply of houses, appreciation won’t be back for a LONG time.
“Wow, I didn’t see this before I posted my own irritation with the use of the word “plateau”.
That usage isn’t just irritating, it’s wrong. If one goes up, and then it levels off, you might be on a plateau. If you’ve just fallen off a cliff, wherever you’ve landed is most definitely not a plateau!
Recovery of housing prices from the 1920’s Florida housing bubble didn’t occur until the most recent bubble, about 80 years later. Those buying now might well be in the trench for the rest of their lives.
‘Pretty much we’ve reached a plateau where things have bottomed out,’ said Jack Winston, an analyst with Goodkin Consulting. ‘I think it’s a question of how long we stay at that plateau.”’
What a freakin’ liar. And here’s the interesting thing: in life, there’s no such thing as a plateau, not for long, anyway. Things either improve, or they deteriorate. So when you see what’s called a “plateau”, get ready for a move in one direction or the other.
Remember the good ole days when we hit a permantently high plateau in 2006/2007? We’ve hit many plateaus since. With the $8K bribe expiring tomorrow we’re inching towards the next cliff….wheeeee!!!
‘Pretty much we’ve reached a plateau where things have bottomed out,’ said Jack Winston, an analyst with Goodkin Consulting.
Just the news I was waiting to hear… Now I KNOW there will be another leg down! A sideways consolidation is almost always followed by a major up/down swing. Seeing that massive gov intervention has done nothing but stabilze the screaming downward tradjectory (for a sort amt of time) my bets are another big DOWN.
I get the feeling that the high end homes (+$2M in this area)are going to stay put as the folks who can “afford” such luxury live in dreamland and are curently in a REM daze as the stock market melts up on no volume and endless FED support. They got the means to pay silly prices. The rest of us? Not so much. I guess I can be described as the bear in woods looking for a white rabbit to wipe my @$$ with. (no offense professor!)
” I guess I can be described as the bear in woods looking for a white rabbit to wipe my @$$ with. (no offense professor!) ”
now THAT was funny! I don’t care who you are, you just got to laugh at that one.
“Stan Humphries, Zillow’s chief economist, points out that the national inventory of for-sale homes increased last month, despite the large number of sales related to the expiring tax credits. Humphries said that little-publicized dynamic ‘does make one at least ponder whether the market is currently capable of clearing itself of inventory without paying people to buy homes.’”
There’s the money quote.
Some time ago, actually back in 2005, I foolishly signed up for one of those “Foreclosure Alert” services and their spam regularly arrives in my inbox, once or twice a week. Usually it’s a complete joke. However, the frequency of the alerts has increased and the nature of them has become more frantic, like
“Buy Now, the tax credit is expiring” or “How to analyze a Foreclosure” “Don’t Miss this one!”. Interesting.
“Hit that f**king clown”. Anyone remember this? A real golden oldie from the housing bust. Just injecting a little levity into the blog.
http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/daily-brief/2008/03/06/the-r-rated-ceo
“Citibank wrote off the debt, and handed the title over”
Wow! Free condos for everyone?!? For real??
Just an example of how unmanageable things have become.
Detroit with aligators and air conditioning.
That is correct. I have predicted many times that this state has peaked and will be the Michigan of the first half of the 21st century. There are many reasons why this state was thinly populated for much of its history, and we’re going to reacquaint ourselves with those reasons regardless of whether we want to.
I dunno, snake, it just might become the “plantation” of the US, with illegals working those tomato fields and orange groves and…wait for it… strawberry fields forever!
A neo-con’s wet dream.
Actually, I very much endorse the idea of us focusing on tropical agriculture, aquaculture, and medicine, and using our ports for trade with Latin America and the Caribbean. That will mean the end of an economy tied to ongoing construction of strip malls, second houses, golf courses, and subdivisions, but that state of affairs is going to end anyway — it may be over, permanently, right now.
The history of who has performed manual agricultural labor here, and the conditions under which that labor was performed, don’t give us a whole lot to be proud of. Illegal immigrants didn’t cut the sugar cane.
Actually, I very much endorse the idea of us focusing on tropical agriculture, aquaculture, and medicine, and using our ports for trade with Latin America and the Caribbean.
I agree. Florida, due to its proximity to Latin American and the Caribbean, would be a natural choice for a U.S.-based trade hub with that part of the world.
Especially in post-Castro Cuba, and, yes, that day is coming. Expect to see Cuba engage in a gradual opening up to the U.S., just as China did starting in the 1970s.
“Actually, I very much endorse the idea of us focusing on tropical agriculture, aquaculture, and medicine, and using our ports for trade with Latin America and the Caribbean.”
Actually, so do I.
“The history of who has performed manual agricultural labor here, and the conditions under which that labor was performed, don’t give us a whole lot to be proud of. Illegal immigrants didn’t cut the sugar cane.”
True. Jamaicans did, under the watchful eyes of the Fanjul family of Cuba. I went to school with one of that tribe. However, have you been to Immokalee lately? I admit, I have’t myself, but surely you’ve seen the news of the tomato protests there?
But here’s the problem. The Fanjuls, at least, brought their workers in, fed, clothed and housed them and paid their trip back home when the harvest was done. Definitely, there were cruelties and lousy working and living conditions. Now, it’s the taxpayer pays for the housing, feeding, clothing, birthing, medical care, etc. Conditions have improved. BUT, they don’t leave so we don’t pay for the return trips and I very much resent subsidizing the profits of Big Aggie by paying for the housing, feeding, medical care, birthing, etc. And because they don’t leave, what happens is that those workers are in the wind as soon as a better paying construction or landscaping or other job opens up. Aggie’s workers evaporate, causing Aggie to scream for workers for the “jobs Americans won’t do”. Wash, rinse, repeat. In fact for many, those jobs are used as an entree, until the golden ring of jackpot babies is grasped.
And so I say, those are jobs illegals will do temporarily, then they become jobs illegals won’t do.
I notice that, in the proposed shamnasty legislation, the illegal advocates are most geezed about the guest worker program. They don’t want it. It means supervision and it means taking away entree to the US benefits system.
Heh. The Fanjul brothers make a point of hosing down both political parties with money, so that they won’t ever lack for powerful political connections. Wall Street follows that model too. According to the investigation into l’affaire Lewinsky, President Clinton himself was called by Alfy Fanjul while Monica was with him intimately.
http://tinyurl.com/2beww6v
If the President was engaged in such an, ahem, intimate, matter, how could he possibly have concentrated on the phone call? Especially when such a matter generally attracts so much, if not all, of one’s attention.
“How come these third-world sh*tholes are always so hot?” — Danny Davito
I’m sure he was also thinking about Florida!
“‘This was our American dream,’ Thomas Wickizer said. They’re talking about 16 vacant townhouses, soon-to-be home for 16 low-income families. ‘That’s gonna ruin our property values,’ Wickizer said.”
Well, since prices in Ft. Myers are already down about 70% from peak, I’d venture to say your property values are already ruined Mr. Wickizer…….
The trouble with integrating the low income families into middle class areas is that the low income people have no clue as to how to become part of the middle class. The expectation is that, if they’re moved into such an area, they’ll figure it out.
Well, I’m here to tell you that if you’re just bumping along in poverty, you have other things to do besides figuring out how to become part of the middle class.
This is one thing that really used to bother me when I was volunteering with Habitat for Humanity. There were poor people, going through a pretty tough application process, then, if accepted, they were making a very modest down payment and working their Habitat sweat equity hours. I met some very hard workers who really put their all into those sweat equity hours — it was impressive.
However, I didn’t think that it was enough to just set these people down in a new house. They needed, for lack of a better term, some sort of roadmap for rising out of poverty and staying. That’s why I thought Habitat should have been partnering with other local non-profits, religious institutions, government agencies, and employers to create a package of services for each family. That package would be their roadmap.
I also thought that, if such a package were offered, it should come with the “giving back to others” string attached. As in, if you accept this, you must give back by helping other Habitat homeowners who are coming along behind you.
Reason for my sentiment: Last time I photographed a big Habitat event, I met one fellow who had become a homeowner in the complex where the event was taking place. He said that he was one of a handful of homeowners who still came out to help. He didn’t think that was right, and neither did I.
+1, Slim.
And by the way, Slim, in case I never told you, I admire you to the max. I’ve been reading your posts over the years. You’re hardworking, sensible, independent and caring. Any community would be lucky to have you as a member, any friend of yours fortunate. Live long and prosper. I hope your close associates value you.
Aw, shucks. Thanks, palmetto.
I second that palmetter comment
I’m tellin’ ya, if I’m ever in the trenches, I want Slim watchin’ my back. Loyal, steadfast.
While in general I think you’re probably right, there is some (though probably not as much as is generally assumed) benfit for their children. Certainly plenty of them won’t take any advantage of access to better schools, but some of them will. ‘Cause in many areas with great degrees of economic segregation, the schools that the poor go to are often stunningly bad. Even if that’s mostly because of the kids in ‘em, it reinforces “school is for fools,” meme.
Its one thing to have your prop values plummet because you were an idiot and paid too much. Its completely another thing to have Government subsidised grow-operations and meth-labs and dealers moving in next door fo’ free.
We’re dealing with that very thing in my nabe. Section 8 house, which has been a chronic source of trouble. Guess what, there’s more trouble there.
BTW, the sister of a former neighbor (who didn’t live next our problematic 8-er), used to rent houses to Section 8 tenants. (This was in another state, not AZ.) She said that her best tenants were the ones who were new to program. The Section 8 “veterans” gave her no end of trouble.
To put it mildly, she was quite glad to be out of the Section 8 rental business.
But it also is a reminder of the lessons our community has learned in the aftermath of the housing bubble, not the least of which is that we can never let ourselves become so reliant on a single industry again.
Never again. Sounds like something somebody with a bad hangover would say. And then refuse to acknowledge saying later on when they feel better.
But this isn’t an “Ow, my head” hangover like the last few recessions. This is the sort of dry heaves, unable to hold down water until afternoon on the next day that usually WILL persuade people not to drink for awhile.
“But this isn’t an “Ow, my head” hangover like the last few recessions.”
No, it’s more of an “Ow, my balls” hangover like in Idiocracy.
There will not be another depression. This is probably the last one and it hasn’t even gotten started yet. Realtards will never get the chance to redeem themselves (unless they come back as cockroaches or something).
“‘Unfortunately, this is quite common. We as Realtors hear the same story on a daily basis with many different owners and banks,’ said Maria Wells, president of the Realtors Association of St. Lucie. ‘If an owner was fortunate enough to be provided a trial modification, it’s not uncommon to have the terms rescinded.’”
Got to squeeze those last few dollars from the FB…
“Alex Pollock, former CEO of Federal Home Loan Bank of Chicago and now a research fellow at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, says using TARP money to bail out homeowners isn’t even legal. ‘The TARP statute authorized the Treasury only to make investments to acquire assets, not just to spend money on subsidies for people,’ he says, arguing that TARP was meant for investments that could yield some kind of return for taxpayers. These programs, however, don’t consitute investments. ‘It’s money that’s not ever coming back.’”
Lighten up, Pollock; can’t you see this is a crisis situation? The first thing to get tossed out the window in a crisis is any semblance of a rule of law. The new rule is ‘catch bailouts as catch can.’
Better late than never - one more for the Florida thread…
Newlyweds sue developer saying it allowed their neighborhood to be ruined by flippers
http://tinyurl.com/RenCommons
Good story, but like the flippers, I suspect our newlyweds also bought a residence in “Firenze” with the expectation of substantial short-term appreciation, and to their surprise got stuck. Who’d a thunk it? What irks me is my traditional pet peeve: the use of Euro-names to convince people whose idea of international travel is going to Las Vegas that Florida suburban sprawl is the same as graceful Italian countryside.