Delaying The True Recovery
The Daily Journal of Commerce reports from Oregon. “Bend’s residential real estate market has been on a roller-coaster ride over the past several years. The ride has taken its toll on Central Oregon brokers. Even though they’re trying to remain optimistic, they say they’re wondering if the market has hit bottom yet. ‘It’s been a vicious cycle over the past several years,’ said Sheree MacRitchie, president of the Central Oregon Association of Realtors and the principal broker with Steve Scott Realtors in Bend. ‘At first we were at the top of the list for fastest appreciation. Then things peaked and we instantly went to the top of the list for depreciation.’”
“Four years ago, when home prices initially started to drop for the first time in a decade, home owners began to worry and tried to sell their homes. As a result, the number of homes on the market rose sharply, bringing median home prices down significantly. Median home prices in Bend have dropped from $353,500 in 2006 to $204,000 last year. And industry professionals are worried the downward trend may continue if banks flood the market with foreclosed homes.”
“Dave Feagans, a principal broker with Alpine Real Estate in Bend, said he goes to sleep every night praying against such action. If banks were to put 100 or 200 homes on the market at the same time, Bend would see another year of significant home depreciation, he said.”
“Agents are worried that banks have a large supply of shadow inventory - foreclosed homes that they aren’t putting on the market due to low median home prices. Feagans said banks usually would not want to release the foreclosed homes at the same time because it would drive down prices even more. But increased federal pressure on banks to eliminate bad assets may take the decision out of banks’ hands, he said.”
“Prices have dropped 4 percent in the first quarter of 2010 alone. Most of that is because 35 percent of the homes sold in 2010 were bank-owned and 20 percent were short sales. But the real unknown is whether banks will start approving short sales, MacRitchie said. MacRitchie, for example, represented a proposed buyer on a short sale in Bend last month. The property received seven bids; the highest, from MacRitchie’s client, was for $20,000 over the listed price with 10 percent cash down. The property ended up going to a below-market bidder, and MacRitchie couldn’t get an explanation why.”
“‘For the first time in years the inventory is down and new building permits are down,’ she said. ‘You would think home prices would be on the rise. But the banks don’t have accountability and until they have to explain their decisions, who knows what will happen.’”
“Real estate agents have kept a close eye on the number of notices of defaults, the first warning that homeowners are behind on their mortgages. Notices of defaults in Bend rose from 589 in 2007 to 3,507 in 2009. In 2010, there were 402 in January alone.”
The Island Packet in South Carolina. “Even though unemployment rates appear to have topped out and home sales are slowly improving, the wave of foreclosures is still growing. And there is no end in sight, say real estate agents and attorneys. There are more than 300 properties scheduled to go on the block at Beaufort County’s monthly foreclosure sale June 7, the most many can remember.”
“Cathy West Olivetti, a Hilton Head Island attorney whose firm represents distressed homeowners, now helps older professionals such as doctors, a demographic she didn’t see earlier in the downturn. If there is an economic recovery under way, it’s the slowest one Olivetti’s generation has seen, she said. ‘I want my world back,’ said Olivetti, whose firm now devotes about half its staff to ‘loss mitigation.’”
“Todd McDaniel, president of the Beaufort County Association of Realtors, said he fears a developing ’shadow market’ in which many homes that have been sliding toward foreclosure will plunge into it. As borrowers who have so far staved off default run out of options to pay their loans, McDaniel worries the county’s monthly lists will grow longer.”
“As a result, today’s sellers need to realize downward pressure on prices is likely to continue, he said. If your neighbor’s home sold for $250,000 today, ‘you better price yours at $245,000,’ said McDaniel.”
“So when might the tide of foreclosures ebb? Most of those surveyed pointed to the same need: Jobs. Even though Beaufort County’s April unemployment rate of 7.3 percent was the lowest in the state, many of those workers are still struggling because they’re making only a fraction of what they did before the recession,Olivetti said.”
“Jeffrey Reilley, an attorney for three years at Laurich & Wiseman on Hilton Head and in Bluffton, longs for the day when his files contain 50 percent distressed mortgage cases rather than the current 80 percent. He’s not expecting that day to come any time soon. ‘All the inventory’s going to have to get worked out sooner or later,’ he said. ‘It’s just going to be slow.’”
The Columbian in Washington. “With buyers encouraged by a federal tax credit that expired in April, Clark County home sales grew by 61.2 percent last month. Clark County’s median sale price in April was $205,500, a decrease of 5.8 percent when compared with the median of $218,250 one year ago. In some cases, sellers refused to let go of the notion that their homes were still worth the values assessed during the housing boom that ended in 2007, said Jerry Rolling, a sales agent with Keller Williams Realty in Vancouver. As they held out for a higher sales price, values continued to erode.”
“‘So many people lost so much because they wouldn’t price it right,’ he said.”
“The stimulus program isn’t the only factor driving sales. Local real estate agents also attribute the increased activity to low interest rates on mortgages and the perception of bargain prices, as property prices continue to fall. Rolling said that conditions could improve for home sellers in the coming months, if banks continue to work with troubled homeowners. The federal government’s new foreclosure prevention program has been credited for pushing foreclosure rates down across the nation.”
“Banks also are waiting longer to list residential holdings, renting the properties or letting the sites remain vacant, real estate agents said. ‘The buzz on the street is that the banks are holding back on the homes they’ve got for sale. They don’t want to depress the market any further,’ Rolling said.”
“Other agents are hopeful that increased April sales are actually driving home values up, said Don Humphrey, an associate broker with Century 21 Cascade Pacific in Vancouver. ‘Since so many houses sold in April, there is going to be less inventory out there and more demand,’ he said.”
The Friday Flyer in California. “Gene Wunderlich is the Director of Government Affairs for the Southwest Riverside County Association of Realtors. ‘We held our mid-year meetings in Washington D.C. in May as well as attending the Chamber of Commerce Business and Legislative Summit in Sacramento, so I’ve had the opportunity to talk with both our state and federal legislators as well as hear updates from numerous economists and industry experts.’”
“Our prices are stable or appreciating, our sales are strong and our inventory is very low – two months compared to two years in many parts of the country. While most agree that we may have turned the corner and will not experience a ‘double-dip’ in prices, we’re still in for at least two more years of a market dominated by distressed properties. One-third (about 15 million) U.S. homeowners are upside-down and one-third of those are either in foreclosure or 60-plus days delinquent.”
“Fifty percent of U.S. home sales are distressed (70 percent locally) and we won’t reach sustainable price support until that number falls to five percent or less. The average delinquent homeowner remains in their home for 18 months today, owing to the prevailing bank philosophy that ‘a rolling loan gathers no loss.”
“Those who work in the administration believe they are responsible for stabilizing the market and stimulating a recovery. Most of the rest of us believe they precipitated the decline and are only delaying the true recovery. Constantly changing signals and policies out of the Fed and other entities have led to mass confusion and amazing lack of success in both loan modification and short sale programs.”
“On the upside, many insiders no longer foresee the ’shadow inventory’ many feared, but rather liken the inventory to a ‘pig in a snake,’ Improving employment numbers and continued low interest rates will restrict the number of people entering the pipeline, while attrition through a few successful loan modifications and short sales, together with increasing auction activity, will keep the volume that eventually gets dumped on us to a manageable level.”
“Finally, and in a nod specifically to our area, several economists agree we are facing another potential housing crisis – one that I have been pointing out for years. With minimal inventory levels and high demand, if builders don’t start ramping up soon we will face a very real housing shortage and the possibility of a price spike.”
“Last month, several asked for an extended graph of first-quarter sales and median price history longer than the ‘09-’lO charts from last month. You can see that sales volumes are up significantly over even previous record sales years.”
The Herald Tribune in Florida. “April was fiesta time in the Southwest Florida real estate market, with another month of sales harkening back to the boom times of mid-2005. But Realtors and industry-watchers acknowledge that a prime driver in the soaring March and April sales was the support of federal tax incentives and buyers’ efforts to beat an April 30 deadline for a signed sales contract.”
“Sales have not declined in the Sarasota-Bradenton market for nearly a year. They were up 32 percent in April. In Charlotte County-North Port — which has not seen a drop since December 2008 — sales rose 6 percent last month. Prices also continued their upswing, rising 5 percent in Sarasota-Bradenton to $163,600 from a year ago and 20 percent in Charlotte County-North Port to $114,500.”
“‘The lower end of the market has been really hot over the last few months,’ said Sam Schackow, a real estate appraiser with Chapman & Associates in Sarasota. ‘The tax credit obviously had a big impact on that, and we’re seeing the beginning of price increases in some areas. The bargain basement stuff is pretty much gone as far as I can see. If the perception in the market is that prices have stabilized and have started to increase, buying interest could pick up in the second half of the year. You could have people jumping in that don’t want to miss the bottom.’”
“We’re running out of inventory in the $100,000-and-below range,’ said Jason Painter, with Program Realty in Rotonda West. ‘If you’re looking for a decent 1,700-square-foot home in North Port for under $100,000, those homes were all over the place last year. Now it’s kind of tough to find them, and when you do, you run into multiple-offer situations.’”
“Roger Clyne, an agent with Horizon Realty in Venice, pointed to a 2,700-square-foot house on Siesta Key’s Avenida del Norte that went on the market for $388,000 in May and had four offers on it in five days. ‘When I went to make an offer for my client, they had already shut the door,’ Clyne said. ‘It’s things like that which really get the market pumped up.’”
“Investors have been a major factor in the market turnaround, and many have already sold properties at a profit. A Bradenton company made nearly $50,000 buying a 1,300-square-foot house in Bradenton for $91,400 in February and selling it in April for $140,000. A Sarasota company made $70,500 by buying a 3,300-square-foot house for $342,000 and reselling it on the following day for $412,500.”
From MarketWatch. “The president of the Richmond Federal Reserve Bank, Jeffrey Lacker, said Wednesday that he was growing less comfortable with the central bank’s ‘extended period’ language in its policy statement, suggesting that he is leaning toward wanting to raise short-term interest rates. The Fed has said in its policy statement that conditions are likely to necessitate extraordinarily low interest rates for an extended period.”
“Lacker said he supported selling some of the housing-related assets from the Fed’s balance sheet in advance of raising interest rates. According to the minutes of the Fed’s last policy meeting in late April, this was a minority view among central bankers. The Fed’s purchases of more than $1 trillion in mortgage-backed securities had tilted credit flows to the housing market, according to Lacker.”
“His motive for wanting to sell some of these assets is to ‘try to avoid sparking another housing boom in this recovery,’ Lacker said.”
From iMarket News. “Richmond Federal Reserve President Jeffrey Lacker Wednesday maintained his argument that the Fed selling the assets on its balance sheet before hiking interest rates is a viable strategy. Lacker told reporters following a speech that there are advantages to normalizing the Fed’s balance sheet earlier rather than later, noting while the Fed’s MBS holdings continues to skew credit towards the housing sector, the market has stabilized — although at a low level — and he expects that to continue.”
“‘I think that’s a legitimate option,’ he said regarding the idea of selling assets first. ‘My preference for normalizing our balance sheet with more alacrity comes from wanting to reduce that distortion, to the extent that it exists, sooner rather than later.’ ‘We should avoid sparking another housing boom,’ he said.”
The Contra Costa Times in California. “Dan Williams lives in the house he grew up in. Next door, nearly knee-high grass leads to a boarded-up window. No one lives in this house owned by Deutsche Bank. On the other side, Williams’ neighbor is another bank. Houses on Montgomery Avenue used to sell for $600,000; now, they might fetch $200,000. ‘I think half the houses on this block are empty,’ Williams said. ‘It’s like living in a ghost town.’”
“Squatters have lived in some; one that caught fire in October remains boarded up. In the East Bay, banks own more than 10,000 houses, and more than 20,000 are in the foreclosure process, according to RealtyTrac. Cities in east and west Contra Costa County have the most bank-owned and foreclosed homes per capita, followed by Concord and Martinez. In Alameda County, Hayward and Emeryville have similarly high per-capita numbers.”
“Tim Higares, a code enforcement manager, said Richmond tries to clean and board up empty houses, but the sheer volume overwhelms the city. ‘Every time we think we gain a little headway in this crisis, a new challenge presents itself,’ said. ‘Really, what we’re doing is putting a Band-Aid on a bigger issue. … The banks aren’t stepping up to the plate and selling these properties and stabilizing the communities.’”
“These extra demands on cities come as city budgets are shrinking. As banks gradually sell these houses, local governments’ property tax revenue will continue to drop, because the tax assessments do not fall from their bubble-inflated price until the bank sells the house. So, cities and school districts may have to make more cuts in the coming years.”
“One stands out with its collapsed roof and unpainted plywood covering the garage and front doors. Weeds grow around the trash in the front yard. It burned in October after its residents left; the firefighters’ report said it appeared that squatters had been there. A paper taped to the smoke-stained window warns against unauthorized entry. In 2005, that house sold for $570,000. It is up for auction June 1.”
“In another house down the street, squatters lived for about seven months before getting kicked out, neighbor Emil Ramirez said. Ten or 15 people stayed there, he said. ‘It’s been pretty bad around here,’ said Ramirez, who lives one vacant house away from Williams. ‘Really bad.’”
“The federal government’s new foreclosure prevention program has been credited for pushing foreclosure rates down across the nation.” It has? The sources I read from say it has been a total failure and an enormous waste of resources.
Well I vote for both: it probably HAS lowered foreclosure rates AND it was a waste of resources. Because for the most part, it has merely delayed foreclosures IMHO. Really, for most borrowers who are significantly underwater, foreclosure or short sale or deed in lieu IS their best option. Delaying it does them no favors in the long term. Yet another case of trying to fix today’s cash-flow at the expense of tomorrows balance sheet.
for most borrowers who are significantly underwater, foreclosure or short sale or deed in lieu IS their best option ??
Why ??
Seems to me their best option is to stay put and start banking the money they would normally send the bank, the insurance company and the county tax assessor…The credit damage is already done…Might as well walk away with some cash in the bank so you have some ability to provide for yourself…
Wouldn’t that be choosing forclosure? And yes, of the three, you might as well choose forclosure. The difference in credit hit is minor, and the difference in cash on hand, at least in a non-defficiecny state is great.
Just quit paying your mortgage. You might stay in for several years. Then file bankrupcy. Another 6 to 9 months free.Is this a great country or what ?
“Investors have been a major factor in the market turnaround, and many have already sold properties at a profit. A Bradenton company made nearly $50,000 buying a 1,300-square-foot house in Bradenton for $91,400 in February and selling it in April for $140,000. A Sarasota company made $70,500 by buying a 3,300-square-foot house for $342,000 and reselling it on the following day for $412,500.” Must be nice living in a world without transaction costs and taxes. Unfortunately, I am stuck in the other one. However, I am comforted with the information that people can still make money by being their own transaction cost to society without any value added.
Those sales had better have been for cash, because I’m going to be very angry if the federal government provided the mortgage loan on southwest Florida flipper properties.
Those sales, the second one in particular, also sound like fraud to me. The reporter should investigate the “companies” a little further.
‘The average delinquent homeowner remains in their home for 18 months today, owing to the prevailing bank philosophy that ‘a rolling loan gathers no loss’
While you do read about this here and there, the majority of houses I go to have been abandoned for months or years. This is more typical:
‘One stands out with its collapsed roof and unpainted plywood covering the garage and front doors. Weeds grow around the trash in the front yard. It burned in October after its residents left; the firefighters’ report said it appeared that squatters had been there’
a good demonstration that further price drops will occur sooner or later. the MSM has barely begun talking shadow inventory. I may be wrong but I strongly doubt Fox News will mention it for at least another year. family homes are central to Fox News. shadow inventory needs outed at all opportunities. they are not maintained and will deteriorate fast. bank shareholders should demand the banks to put them on the market and not let their assets continue melting.
Isn’t that exactly why it may be better to not kick the delinquent homeowners out until the bank is realistic about selling the property quickly (i.e., to keep out squatters and still have a claim for debt service during the subject period, which may not ever be pursued but is still better than no claim plus legal responsibility for being the owner of a vacant property). I can imagine a flood of lawsuits for various people injured or killed in vacant properties for a variety of reasons (e.g. in some states you probably could have a claim if an owner fails to keep out squatters and kids, or fails to take action if it is obviously being used as part of a criminal enterprise, or for maintaining a nuisance - not to mention the more common liabilities such as being on the hook for HOA fees and fines for not keeping the property up pursuant to neighborhood requirements).
‘may be better to not kick the delinquent homeowners out until the bank is realistic about selling the property quickly…to keep out squatters and still have a claim for debt service during the subject period, which may not ever be pursued but is still better than no claim plus legal responsibility for being the owner of a vacant property…the more common liabilities such as being on the hook for HOA fees and fines for not keeping the property up pursuant to neighborhood requirements’
There are all sorts of hypotheticals, but what really happens? FBs don’t take care of a house much, they typically don’t pay the HOA fees. Here’s the number one problem with how this is portrayed and how it works; these people know they are in default. How often do you read ‘Mr FB then stopped paying last march’?
They don’t keep paying what they can afford, they see the foreclosure coming and quit throwing good money after bad.
For what ever reason, they almost always leave. I’m guessing they start getting letters, phone calls, or just feel guilty and want to get on with their lives. And yes, all that time the debt is piling up. How often do you read, ‘Mr FB paid off the back debt and is now current’?
If it was possible to just ‘modify the loan’ and make all this go away, we wouldn’t see so many re-defaults. The fact is, the modifications are a cruel joke.
Here’s two more aspects to this that I know first hand; one, a huge number of foreclosures are not the primary house, probably ‘investments’. These folks just aren’t interested period. The second is the refi issue. They took the loot and spent it, and usually at such a high number that there is no way in hell it can be repaid. IMO, these owners never intended to pay back the refi. The house was going to keep going up and do that for them. That’s why their finances are such that it is impossible to pay back.
You know who is immediately put in a spot? The neighbors. I have them come up to me over and over, asking ‘what in the heck is happening with this house.’
What is your role in looking at these properties? Are you looking for investment or do you work for the banks, the government or some other party?
I have an REO contracting business. Many times, I’m the first person to visit a foreclosure and the last as it’s fixed up and put on the market. I am also assembling a group that’s making inquiries on bulk packages with asset managers.
It’s good to see you put your knowledge to work.
As long as we have entrepreneurs like Ben Jones who are willing to roll up their sleeves and tackle the vacant housing problem head on, wouldn’t it be in the national interest to let private REO rehab specialists work their healing magic than to make work for a bunch of government contractors to clear out usable housing with bulldozers?
Just sayin’…
And furthermore, f__k the banks that lost money on foolish real estate gambles.
There are plenty of out of work contractors who are willing to do the work. The problem seems to be that most banks aren’t interested in spending a dime on the properties. So they sit, vacant and deteriorating.
“The problem seems to be that most banks aren’t interested in spending a dime on the properties. So they sit, vacant and deteriorating.”
I see no insurmountable problems here that cannot be resolved by passing and enforcing an appropriate local rule of law.
1) If banks are letting homes sit vacant and deteriorating, they are creating a negative externality for other property owners in the neighborhood. The local government should tax negligent banks at a level which covers the cost of keeping the home maintained to the same standard of livability that an owner-occupant would be expected to meet. Local maintenance workers could then be hired to maintain the property so long as the bank was not assuming the responsibility.
2) The local government would also pass a law authorizing them to repossess homes on which the banks that own them do not stay current on their maintenance tax payments. These homes could be resold in a zero-reserve-price auction to the highest bidder, with the stipulation that said bidder would have to properly maintain the home, whether as an owner-occupant or as an absentee owner.
The above policies would offer local governments several benefits:
I) They would eliminate the blight caused by banks and other absentee owners failing to properly maintain homes.
II) The would raise revenues, either through the maintenance tax, which would also provide for local jobs, or through repossessing and auctioning off homes on which deadbeat banks were not staying current on their tax payments.
III) The zero-reserve-price auctions would offer local housing at affordable prices to new residents, attracting a stable community foundation of owner-occupants at prices they could afford to pay.
Where is the downside to any of the above?
There was an interesting remark about no longer being worried about shadow inventory…
“On the upside, many insiders no longer foresee the ’shadow inventory’ many feared, but rather liken the inventory to a ‘pig in a snake,’
Not sure why they would say that? Guess they are opting to sit on the loss for a long long time. Perhaps these are assets as collateral for Fed loans too.
The economy is such a mess, I don’t foresee this ending anytime soon. The neighborhood blight brought on by the banks holding homes probably doesn’t matter to your average legislator who is going to a BofA fundraiser.
We are looking very Japan like these days stuck in debt trap.
This is what grabbed me:
‘We held our mid-year meetings in Washington D.C. in May as well as attending the Chamber of Commerce Business and Legislative Summit in Sacramento, so I’ve had the opportunity to talk with both our state and federal legislators as well as hear updates from numerous economists and industry experts’
‘Those who work in the administration believe they are responsible for stabilizing the market and stimulating a recovery’
I can just see these guys sitting around a table trying to turn lead into gold.
‘Constantly changing signals and policies out of the Fed and other entities have led to mass confusion and amazing lack of success in both loan modification and short sale program’
I am one of those that believes govt makes just about anything they try to ‘fix’ worse. In this case, they are making a historic blunder and almost everyone involved will suffer for it.
‘Constantly changing signals and policies out of the Fed and other entities have led to mass confusion and amazing lack of success in both loan modification and short sale program’
What’s amazing about it? I would think it would be far easier to plug an oil gusher at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico than it would be to stop a real estate bust in its tracks. But that won’t stop our hubristic economic leaders from giving it their best shot.
The problem is that there is no solution that offers what the PTB want: A return to the non-sustainable bubble fed growth of the economy. Just as FBs used additional mortgage debt to fund the illusion of income, the economy as a whole used the bubble to generate the illusion that it was growing. Just as RE prices in many areas can’t be stabilized at current levels because the only reason for those prices was the anticipation of future price increases, the economy as a whole can’t “bounce back” from this recession because the only reason that GDP was so high was that the “financial industry,” was focused on greater and greater levels of consumer lending. Now it is clear that much of that debt will never be repaid, and in fact that there was no reasonable expectation that it could.
“Now it is clear that much of that debt will never be repaid, and in fact that there was no reasonable expectation that it could.”
Not only that, but there is plenty of wreckage to clean up, left over from the past several decades of hyperstimulative Fed policy, coupled with bailouts. Witness Detroit, for instance, a city which looks like it didn’t survive a bombing attack which never even took place.
Of course instead of folding their crappy hand, the government is betting big and trying to draw to an inside straight.
Dealing from the bottom of the deck yields just more crappy cards. Yet the knowledge that the game is fixed somehow provides a level of arrogance only achieved by years of successful cheating. Only this time the whole world loses.
“Increased federal pressure to eliminate bad assets” - but…but our esteemed leaders in Washington want to support overinflated house prices so the GFs won’t suffer!
“As a result, today’s sellers need to realize downward pressure on prices is likely to continue, he said. If your neighbor’s home sold for $250,000 today, ‘you better price yours at $245,000,’ said McDaniel.”
And write a letter on how you will come back to feed the squirrels…
Unless the person is in default or lost their job, I still see about half the listings at peak prices. Some have been on the market for two years or more losing more market value every day. Sometimes even the same model on the same street is priced 150k or more higher than competition. When I ask the agent about it, they say well this isn’t a distress sale situation and that their house is special. It is just not worth it to owners to take a penny less. I don’t see why they have to waste everyone’s time.
After doing some serious on the ground looking, this spring, I came to the same conclusion. But, I have noticed a lot of more expensive inventory coming on line, in the last few weeks. It looks like pressure is building, for people who had the resources to “wait for the market to get better”. I think these resources are rapidly evaporating. The calendar is their executioner.
+1 Duration duration duration.
I suspect this is the beginning of the “second hump” in the C-S graph. Others later on in the hump are trying to get a jump on things before they recast. Others are trying to get out before a job loss hits…
“Unless the person is in default or lost their job, I still see about half the listings at peak prices.”
It’s good to recognize the selection bias in the listings you see. Properly-priced homes will move in a week or less; overpriced homes (e.g. the ones you see at ‘peak prices’) will stay on the market until the seller delists them. Having sold two homes in two different times and places within a week each time, I can attest to this from personal experience.
I also once had an interesting conversation with a UHS about somebody who listed a home below market during a bust. Seems all the local UHS’s were pretty steamed about it; not only did the sale ’screw up the comps,’ but so many people wrote offers on the place that lots of UHS ended up spending a great deal of time on paperwork with no payoff.
I listed my house in 2005 for $400k (which I brough for 280k, about 3 years earlier) because I had to move in two weeks to another State and had too much stress as it was to worry about a vacant house in another State. At the time similar properties were listed at $460k and up but not moving if the seller did not budge, but moving briskly if they accepted around $420k. I got multiple offers and sold for $420k in three days. It sold again last year for $375k.
Many neighbors told me how angry they were I gave my house away.
How many of those “I’m not giving it away” Greedheads of 2006, clinging to their galactic sense of entitlement and refusing to budge from their wildly inflated wish prices, are now bitterly cursing themselves for not reading the writing on the wall?
Technically, at that point they were FORMER neighbors.
“Many neighbors told me how angry they were I gave my house away.”
P-O’d former neighbors are a hazard that comes with pricing your home to market conditions, especially if prices have been recently falling. The abysmal ignorance of economics in this country, among MSM-cited experts as well as the untutored masses, has led many to the mistaken notion that sellers’ list prices determine the equilibrium market value of housing. The notion that an individual household can unilaterally shift a market equilibrium is so ridiculous that I find it quite amazing to see over and over in print how many economists buy into this urban legend. Look around at all the overpriced homes that never sell for direct evidence on how much influence list prices have on market values.
‘How many of those “I’m not giving it away” Greedheads of 2006 … are now bitterly cursing themselves for not reading the writing on the wall?’
My guess: Not many. It is far less painful to blame your former neighbors, who priced their homes to sell under current market conditions, for ’screwing up the comps,’ than to end your own denial over the fact that you lost a bundle while holding out hope for some kind of cargo drop of bailout money to bring your home’s sale price up to fleeting 2006 market value levels.
“I listed my house in 2005 for $400k … I got multiple offers and sold for $420k in three days.”
- Listed for $375K at year-end 2004 (UHS told us ‘market value’ was $390K)
- Received multiple offers
- Sold within one week for $405K
- A properly-priced home gathers no loss.
It’s what I tell people, “If you list it for $1, you will sell it in a single day. If you list it for $1,000,000 it will never sell. Somewhere in between is the market price.”
There’s a guy down my street that’s been trying to do a FSBO for over 2 years now. He first wanted $320K when Zillow said $260K. He then dropped the price to $260K when Zillow said $220K. He then dropped the price to $220K when Zillow now says $186K (I just looked it up on Zillow). You have to wonder about turkeys like this.
When I hear these stories, it makes me nervous. These people are using pretty much the same hardware to think with as you and I. It makes me wonder what farcical things I’m currently believing as Truth.
It’s too easy to convince one’s self about things one wants to be true.
It’s not a hardware problem…
Russ and Jim…. continue this exchange. It’s fascinating.
This is why we got Barry, the Manchurian president.
“The property received seven bids; the highest, from MacRitchie’s client, was for $20,000 over the listed price with 10 percent cash down. The property ended up going to a below-market bidder, and MacRitchie couldn’t get an explanation why.”
Could it be the below-market bidder made an all-cash offer?
Combo’s comrade.
I really was just trying to come up with a rational explanation for why the seller might be willing to reject an above-list-price offer for a lower one. Having recently bought a new car on similar terms, I realize that sellers find the bird in hand of cash quite a bit more appealing than the bird in the bush of financing.
Could it be the below-market bidder made an all-cash offer?
Could it be the winning bidder bribed the seller who doesn’t care about loses too much because ?? The government has bought the bad debt ? Share holders have bought the bad debt ??
Seven bids? I guess the bubble is alive and well in Bend, OR.
below-market bidder made an all-cash offer ??
And by doing so gave the house to a speculator that will charge a hefty premium to the next buyer which will likely be a owner occupant…
IMO, the benefit of some of these lower prices are not ending up in the hands of the right people.. Change the FMAE/FMAC underwriting guidelines that will not allow any financing on property that has been previously sold within the last twelve months…That will weed out most of the speculators leaving the inventory available for people that will help stabilize these neighborhoods and get the benefit of the lowest price…
“Not ending up in the hands of the right people” was the predictable consequence of our wonderful legislative decision to offer a tax credit — the credit was factored into prices, meaning that the benefit went to sellers, and realtors, rather than buyers, whose houses immediately are going to depreciate now that the tax credit has concluded.
“…whose houses immediately are going to depreciate now that the tax credit has concluded.”
That’s why I have often referred to the $8,000 tax credit as one of Uncle Sam’s ‘knifecatcher encouragement’ programs.
Another one is the FHA’s seller concession allowance.
Why Uncle Sam thinks it is a good idea to encourage households to start off their tenure as home owners with an underwater mortgage is truly a mystery to me. I posed this question yesterday and nobody stepped up to the plate to explain the benefit to society of this policy. Perhaps if Polly is reading today, she will take a stab at it?
Speculators and selling short keep the market honest.
Could it be like Natalie above and the seller had a job offer and had to move in 2 weeks?
———————————————-
Could it be the below-market bidder made an all-cash offer?
“Agents are worried that banks have a large supply of shadow inventory - foreclosed homes that they aren’t putting on the market due to low median home prices. Feagans said banks usually would not want to release the foreclosed homes at the same time because it would drive down prices even more. But increased federal pressure on banks to eliminate bad assets may take the decision out of banks’ hands, he said.”
I thought RE agents were interested in sales. Lower prices would get sales volume back up to normal levels. In my mind RE agents were either retired folks also drawing a pension, or an empty nest housewife with a productive husband; RE sales were never meant to be breadwinner jobs, IMHO.
“RE sales were never meant to be breadwinner jobs, IMHO.” Most of us can perform a MLS search and fill in the blanks on a sales contract with no training at all. Why should Realtor expect to get paid more than fast food workers. Fast food is a much harder job.
“Fast food is a much harder job.”
I dunno… do fast food workers have to drive around in pink Escalades?
Making money for brokers is dependent on transaction volume. Some of these dopes don’t realize that the banks holding on to REO’s is reducing their volume and income.
So when transaction volume slows to a trickle, they presumably get broker. This is why high housing prices, though good for banks with REO inventory to unload, are not so good for home sellers.
Don’t forget many Realtors are also investors and/or leveraged to the max on their own home. I don’t know any Realtors that are renters or who have paid off a substantial portion of their mortage, but there may be some.
ding ding ding. ‘Cause the best salespeople are often the once who actually BELIEVE the BS that they’re spouting.
It was only about 5 years ago I was impressed to meet so many young people who owned “rentals.” LOL
In my mind RE agents were either retired folks also drawing a pension, or an empty nest housewife with a productive husband; RE sales were never meant to be breadwinner jobs, IMHO.
Back in the days when there were real jobs to be had this was true. But the bubble changed all that. I actually knew people who quit engineering jobs to become realtors because the money was so much better and they were anticipating layoffs. Now they’re too rusty to return to engineering, and the engineering jobs are hard to come by.
That’s pretty amazing. I know one woman who left teaching after one year to becom a realtor. This was just about a year and a half ago! I also knew a woman who worked in the purchasing department of the local electric utility. She didn’t have a degree, I don’t think, so it wasn’t quite as crazy an engineer becoming a realtor. She did have almost 10 years in at the utility, so she walked away from a decent salary and very good benefits, so it probably turned out badly nonetheless.
How much were these engineers earning when they decided to become realtors?
I knew a few who became appraisers, and it seemed surprising at the time because I always thought of appraisers as old guys with lots of experience in building or lending or something…for years there was only one in town and everyone had to wait for Charlie to get around to it before you could close.
Same with inspectors, lots of new guys.
Engineer fresh out of school: ~70-80K.
Engineer with 10 -20 years experience: $120-$150K if they’re an expert in a single area. More if they choose a management track.
Government engineer: Tops out at $150K MAX.
During the height of the bubble, a realtor would make more than than almost any engineer. And we wonder why the US can’t get kids excited about engineering…
It depends on the employer. Where I work we pay experienced EEs and MEs about 80-90K.
Thanks, Colorado. I was interested in the salaries that your former colleagues walked away from. What’s really amazing is that many of these people have not gotten out of the real estate business and they are now probably earning about $20,000 is they’re lucky.
From the SW Florida (Herald Tribune) article in Ben’s post:
“a prime driver of soaring March and April sales was the support of federal tax incentives” and
“we’re running out of inventory in the $100K-and-below range”
Well, so what should be happening now is — nothing. However, I find that I have (from my small-potatoes point of view) suddenly unlimited lending opportunities of the $80K-price variety, if I keep my rate at 8% or below and am willing to lend 80% of purchase price. These are 3BR houses, not old, in heavily foreclosed areas, and there seems to be no shortage of END-USER buyers in this price range…and ALSO no shortage of inventory. However, I have told my RE agent contact in SW Florida that my current stake in the area (3 houses, 1 mobile+lot) is enough for now till these loans “season” and I see if they perform.
“Well, so what should be happening now is — nothing.” I can guarantee you the average buyer in this price range is more interested in stories about prices going up and morons making money on real estate than the economics of the expiration of the tax credit. Realtors know this and use it against their clients.
Well, I think the take-away is that different market segments are moving different amounts at different speeds.
“As banks gradually sell these houses, local government’s tax property tax revenues will continue to drop, because the tax assessments do not fall from their bubble-inflated price until the bank sells the house.”
Therein lies a double whammy, maybe a triple whammy:
Whammy 1. & 2.: The longer the bank holds a foreclosure off the market the more taxes the bank will owe on it. This tax expense is in addition to the eroding expense caused by letting the house lie fallow.
Whammy 3.: When the house is finally sold off, at a lower price than what the bank’s bookkeeping showed it to be worth, then the value of the house is reassessed and less taxes are received by the various governments than before. Less taxes means less government services to help maintain neighborhood infrastructure which puts added pressure on RE prices. This added pressure hoses the value of the mortgages on neighboring houses the bank owns and adds to the incentive for more FBs to walk and thus stick the bank with still more vacant houses.
So why is it again that banks don’t try to unload their REO inventory sooner rather than later? I would think there would be a huge first-mover advantage in the REO-unloading game. Is the typical banker living in such a thick cloud of denial that he cannot see this?
“So why is it again that banks don’t try to unload their REO inventory sooner than later?”
Because the sudden financial pain of dumping their holdings onto the market and hence suffering a drastic price drop is and a gigantic hit to the bank’s balance sheets - which will probably cost the bankers their jobs - is less painful than the relentless but relatively slowly eroding of their balance sheets - and might allow the bankers to keep their jobs a bit longer.
Maybe.
Plus the November elections are but a few months away and who knows what is yet to come after that.
Extend & pretend: The rule of the day.
We can all understand how people are drawn to kicking the can down the road. We see that path of least resistance thinking win out, over and over. But here’s where this approach is disastrous:
‘April was fiesta time in the Southwest Florida real estate market, with another month of sales harkening back to the boom times of mid-2005. But Realtors and industry-watchers acknowledge that a prime driver in the soaring March and April sales was the support of federal tax incentives’
‘an extended graph of first-quarter sales and median price history longer than the ‘09-’lO charts from last month…You can see that sales volumes are up significantly over even previous record sales years’
Fiesta time, another month of sales harkening back to the boom times, soaring sales significantly over even previous record sales years. Sound familiar?
If we were achieving true value discovery, this wouldn’t matter. But borrowers walk away when they owe more than a house is worth. By not allowing the market to function, this is setting up hundreds of thousands, maybe millions more loans to default.
If kicking the can down the road will allow the can-kicker to keep his job then the can will continually be kicked.
It may be reasonable to accept reality and suffer the pain that that goes with this acceptance but this isn’t about to happen anytime soon.
The can-kicker kicks the pain down the road along with the can. If he kicks the can far enough and long enough then maybe somebody else will end up with the can - and the pain that goes with it.
Hence Extend & Pretend.
I suppose this “can kicking” helps unemployment stay at ten percent instead of jumping to twenty percent. Maybe it buys us responsible savers more time to build up more cash.
We should be kicking FBs and bankers down the road instead.
I knew we were in trouble back during the last presidential campaign. As someone who believes the housing bubble was an actual economic event, I thought it would be brought out and discussed in policy terms. Instead, the issue devolved into who could ‘keep people in their homes’ most effectively. No regard was given to what had actually happened. As I said last year, if you don’t correctly identify the problem, you can’t address it.
“Instead, the issue devolved into who could ‘keep people in their homes’ most effectively.”
Just wait until Hitlary runs. You are going to hear that mantra at every whistle stop of her campaign! (With nary a mention of the role the Clintons played in planting the seeds for the housing market disaster at hand…)
“By not allowing the market to function, this is setting up hundreds of thousands, maybe millions more loans to default.”
And why should a politician or a policy wonk give a tinker’s damn about it? We see right now, before our very eyes, the culprits who are primarily responsible for the housing debacle hanging on to their power and not acknowledging a whiff of responsibility for their actions which led to the situation at hand. As long as it is possible to ignore the root cause and rewrite the history books to absolve one’s role in causing disasters, what is the drawback to creating them and profiting from it?
Yes Ben, the politicians were mostly oblivious of the fact that the level of speculation was great enough to grossly inflate the market, so there’s really no surprise that they didn’t realize how many homes were owned by speculators.
Whammy 4 : The neighbor that bought in 2006 now goes to the county assessor for a adjustment downward of his property assessment because of the recent foreclosure sale setting the new bar for valuations…
Whammy 5: the county jacks the mill rates/levies to compensate for the decline in assessed valuations. This in turn gooses the carrying costs for another cadre of houseowners and pushes even more to the brink of default.
Whammy 6: Rising carrying costs/property taxes dissuade new buyers from even entering the market causing long term collateral damage.
“Notices of defaults in Bend rose from 589 in 2007 to 3,507 in 2009. In 2010, there were 402 in January alone.”
Oof! The January rate of NOD filings in Bend was 402*12 = 4,824 — steeply higher than the overall rate for 2009. Is January typically an unusually high month for NOD filings? I am guessing not; more likely that it is typically below average.
I vaguely recall many, many threads on Bend as real estate investing hot spot from a few years back. If Ben or anyone else can provide a reference on that, I would be grateful; otherwise it might appear to some that Bend’s spell of real estate misery is like a fat finger of God dropping out of a clear blue sky with no warning.
I have never been to Bend but I understand that is is a wonderful place to live that is assuming you enjoy the winter…
Rancher & mikeinbend would be able to answer this.
I’ll take a stab at it. Bend is a beautiful area that was mostly driven by California equity locusts, as I understand it. I know the area is under extreme pressure right now. I have made a few large purchases there (Backhoe & Gooseneck trailer).
If you are leveraged in Bend you are in trouble.
It sounds like their housing market is about to be buried in an avalanche of existing home supply!
Bend’s on the east side of the Cascade mountains that frame the Willamette valley, so Bend is isolated from more urban centers like Portland, Salem, and Eugene. It’s also isolated from the more moderate climate of coastal Oregon. It’s hard to get to Bend in deep winter because of the snow burying the mountain passes, although Bend does have quick access to Mt. Bachelor ski area.
Bend was a magnet for California retirees and for
people’s second home. No industry, no manufacturing, no zip. Just tourism and winter
skiing, summer golf. High desert, cold in the winter and scorching hot in the summer.
We know a young couple who just bought a home
there and are doing a lot of repairs and renovations. They’ll be upside down in a year and
wouldn’t listen.
hoocoodanode?
From wikipedia….
The settlement was originally called “Farewell Bend”, which was later shortened to “Bend” by the U.S. Postal Service.
I’m sure there’s a joke in there someplace. Maybe the original name was more appropriate.
Classic following the market down stratagy in selling look at the 2007 asking price !! from Zillow
Price History 6905 Luther CirMoorpark, CA 93021
01/22/2010 Sold $440,000 -24.0% Public Record
05/13/2008 Listed for sale* $579,000 -5.1% Agent
12/06/2007 Listed for sale* $610,000 64.9% Owner
02/15/2006 Sold $370,000 86.9%
08/16/1988 Sold $198,000 — Public Record
‘I want my world back.’ Hate to tell you this,Cathy, but it ain’t coming back.
Not for at least forty years.
It sounds like the seeds of disaster planted by European bankers are about to bear a bitter harvest!
* The Wall Street Journal
* BUSINESS
* MAY 31, 2010, 12:43 P.M. ET
ECB: Banks Will Suffer Considerable Loan Losses In 2010, 2011
By NINA KOEPPEN
FRANKFURT—Banks in the euro zone will suffer “considerable” loan losses this year and next, which could amount to an additional €195 billion ($239.26 billion) in write-downs and could weigh on banks’ profitability, the European Central Bank said.
The prospect of write-downs on loan values together with “continued market and supervisory authority pressure on banks to keep leverage under tight control, suggests that banking-sector profitability is likely to remain moderate in the medium term,” the ECB said in its semiannual Financial Stability Review released Monday.
It estimated that banks in the euro bloc may suffer net write-downs on loans and securities of €90 billion in 2010, and an additional €105 billion in net losses in 2011.
“We are experiencing now a second wave of write-downs, which relate to the performance of loans,” ECB Vice President Lucas Papademos said at a media briefing. “This is not unexpected. Although write-downs on loans will decline, they will continue, simply reflecting the overall performance of the economy,” he said, speaking on his last day in office.
Mr. Papademos will retire from his position at the end of Monday. Portugal’s Vitor Constancio will take up the post from Tuesday.
The ECB cautioned that loan losses in 2011 may even exceed current estimates.
“Heightened sovereign risks and possible second-round effects of the fiscal consolidation that is necessary in most euro area countries could pose some downside risks to economic growth in the area,” the central bank said. “Should these risks materialize, loan-loss provisions should most likely be higher in the period ahead.”
…
“Tim Higares, a code enforcement manager, said Richmond tries to clean and board up empty houses, but the sheer volume overwhelms the city. ‘Every time we think we gain a little headway in this crisis, a new challenge presents itself,’ said. ‘Really, what we’re doing is putting a Band-Aid on a bigger issue. … The banks aren’t stepping up to the plate and selling these properties and stabilizing the communities.’”
Sounds like Richmond is turning into a microcosmic version of Detroit.
“In the East Bay, banks own more than 10,000 houses, and more than 20,000 are in the foreclosure process, according to RealtyTrac dot com.”
Sounds like great opportunities await anyone who is interested in becoming an East Bay slum lord!
Will the Obama bulldozer corps come to the rescue of East Bay housing prices by bulldozing homes rather than requiring banks to lower their asking prices to levels where the homes will sell? It would be a tragic waste of housing capital, but might help banks avoid losses. I am guessing the banks will win, and the bulldozers will come to the rescue of their balance sheets. The banks so far have won every other battle involving political decisions.
Bulldozing empty foreclosure houses could be the new “cash for clunkers”!
Destroy something perfectly serviceable, denying it to poor people and claim political victory.
“Lacker told reporters following a speech that there are advantages to normalizing the Fed’s balance sheet earlier rather than later, noting while the Fed’s MBS holdings continues to skew credit towards the housing sector, the market has stabilized — although at a low level — and he expects that to continue.”
Can anyone offer a shard of evidence that the Fed was legally authorized to print up money and use it to take toxic MBS off private banks’ books? I will believe this when I see the evidence.
“‘I think that’s a legitimate option,’ he said regarding the idea of selling assets first. ‘My preference for normalizing our balance sheet with more alacrity comes from wanting to reduce that distortion, to the extent that it exists, sooner rather than later.’ ‘We should avoid sparking another housing boom,’ he said.”
Too late.
“Some of the empty houses attract trouble.
Squatters and gang members have taken over many of the vacant properties in Richmond, said Tim Higares, a code enforcement manager. Workers sent in to clean the houses find them stripped of copper wire and toilets, littered with condoms and needles, and stained with feces and urine.”
What a nightmare! Are these empty homes former investment properties?
“Fifty percent of U.S. home sales are distressed (70 percent locally) and we won’t reach sustainable price support until that number falls to five percent or less.”
From 70 percent down to five percent or less? That should be easily achievable, once banks start lowering the sale prices of homes to levels supportable by local incomes and in line with local rents. At that point, the risk that new home buyers will end up in foreclosure or distress sale situations will be pretty much eliminated.
“The average delinquent homeowner remains in their home for 18 months today, owing to the prevailing bank philosophy that ‘a rolling loan gathers no loss.”
I thought the saying was, ‘A rolling stone gathers no moss’?
Eddie’s leaders bright ideas lead to serious red ink:
http://www.ajc.com/business/paying-a-price-for-538111.html
The OC learned this lesson with their 1994 bankruptcy. But I guess lots of other municipalities are unwilling to learn vicariously through others’ folly, and prefer tutoring by experience in life’s dear school for fools.
Life keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other.
– Benjamin Franklin –
“On the upside, many insiders no longer foresee the ’shadow inventory’ many feared, but rather liken the inventory to a ‘pig in a snake,’…”
Don’t snakes that eat pigs eventually have to take a massive dump? Or do they disgorge the bones orally?
I can’t believe someone is talking about Riverside County CA.
With minimal inventory levels and high demand, if builders don’t start ramping up soon we will face a very real housing shortage and the possibility of a price spike.
Riverside only got overbuilt because Angelinos thought they could make the commute to jobs in LA. Now the jobs are disappearing and housing is available in LA. Where would the local demand for housing in Riverside county come from? I’m confused.
A race of wealthy, smog-breathing, stucco-loving extraterrestrials could discover earth as early as tomorrow. Why are you such a pessimist?
“Dan Williams lives in the house he grew up in. Next door, nearly knee-high grass leads to a boarded-up window. No one lives in this house owned by Deutsche Bank.”
Was Deutsche Bank a big Richmond, California housing investor? If so, they truly deserve the world’s largest Joshua tree suppository. And a name change, to Douche Bank…
“On the upside, many insiders no longer foresee the ’shadow inventory’ many feared, but rather liken the inventory to a ‘pig in a snake,’ Improving employment numbers and continued low interest rates will restrict the number of people entering the pipeline, while attrition through a few successful loan modifications and short sales, together with increasing auction activity, will keep the volume that eventually gets dumped on us to a manageable level.”
“Finally, and in a nod specifically to our area, several economists agree we are facing another potential housing crisis – one that I have been pointing out for years. With minimal inventory levels and high demand, if builders don’t start ramping up soon we will face a very real housing shortage and the possibility of a price spike.”
The only housing crisis is continued lack of affordability through propping up prices higher than market fundamentals and incomes support.
There is a surplus of housing. When there is such a surplus and people making well above the median income still can’t afford a house, there’s a problem.
And as for the supposed housing shortage, if there were such a shortage, why wouldn’t projects that were mothballed a few years ago be restarted and completed? The land at 3rd and Olive that was cleared 2 to 3 years ago for some housing development is now overgrown with weeds. The planned high rise on Park Boulevard across from Balboa Park that was stopped a few years ago after concrete was poured for the basement and first floor is still sitting there, exposed re-bar rusting, with no signs of activity. This isn’t in the middle of nowhere, in the Inland Empire, but in centrally located areas that are desirable to live.
It’s rather obvious that severe distortions in the market continue.
“…many insiders no longer foresee the ’shadow inventory’ many feared,…”
Ostriches with their heads buried in the sand can’t see much of anything.
It’s rather obvious that severe distortions in the market continue.
And that self-serving delusions are as popular as ever.
“Median home prices in Bend have dropped from $353,500 in 2006 to $204,000 last year. And industry professionals are worried the downward trend may continue if banks flood the market with foreclosed homes.”
$204,000 is still WAY too high for Bend, unless they’re working off some new paradigm where local wages don’t matter.
“While most agree that we may have turned the corner.”
One time when I turned the corner, I blapped right into somebody turning the same corner walking in the opposite direction. That same thing is going to happen when and if house prices “turn the corner.”
Dan Williams lives in the house he grew up in. Next door, nearly knee-high grass leads to a boarded-up window. No one lives in this house owned by Deutsche Bank. On the other side, Williams’ neighbor is another bank. Houses on Montgomery Avenue used to sell for $600,000; now, they might fetch $200,000.
The reporter forgot to include the rest of the story. It should read, “Houses on Montgomery Avenue used to sell for $600,000 - back in 2007 - ; now they might fetch $200,000. …(add here a little investigative reporting which would include the phrase, “..however, houses on Montgomery Avenue fetched as little as …. in 1999-2000. any guesses as to what that price was?
Say around, I don’t know about ….. $180-200K?
At least here in San Diego, prices are still in the stratosphere, and banks are clearly not foreclosing or selling to keep prices where they want.
I understand the math behind not wanting to flood the market with foreclosures, as lower prices would result in MORE foreclosures as more homeowners found themselves underwater, resulting in lower prices etc, and the whole thing would go down in a death spiral.
That said, delaying the death spiral does not solve the problem, and indeed when it finally does have to be addressed, will make matters even worse.
Between the mortage problems, commercial credit problems, consumer debt problems and municipal debt problems, it seems to me that there are two clear possible outcomes.
1. We need to get inflation (and by inflation I mean WAGE INFLATION) underway in a big way and quick, but I cannot see this happening for a multitude of reasons.
2. We need to be prepared for MASSIVE debt defaults, and I am talking about several tens of trillions of dollars in the next 5 years, which means promised retirements will NOT be paid. Not just the government kind, but any of them, since it was largely retirement funds which funded the big bubble. This appears to be the likely outcome.