June 11, 2010

The Albatross Around Their Necks

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “Daniel Taylor is still waiting to hear whether he will qualify for a permanent modification under the Home Affordable Modification Program. A year ago, he lost his job as a salesman with a St. Charles car dealership when General Motors closed down dozens of dealerships. He is exhausting his savings trying to keep his Mariner Drive home. His mortgage is’under water’ by about $16,000. Lately, he’s noticed more and more vacant houses on his block. He’s counted three or four within a block, including one just around the bend from his home. ‘I have no idea what’s going on,’ he said. ‘I’m paying what I am supposed to pay, but they have me sitting in limbo.’”

“Johnny Placeres, executive director of Neighborhood Housing Services of the Fox Valley, recalls the real estate boom of just five years ago. Back then, banks would give anyone a loan, even a ‘no doc’ (no documentation) loan. Those loans — prospective homeowners didn’t even have to show proof of employment — were the norm, he said. ‘Right now, there’s no help for those people other than time is on their side,’ Placeres said. ‘The normal foreclosure process takes a year from missing your first payment. Now, people have been in homes a year and a half to two years and not been foreclosed on.’”

“Foreclosure activity in May continued to slow down nationally and in the Inland Empire as lenders worked to deal with a glut of distressed properties, according to report. ‘Banks are being very lenient with people not making their payments,” said Brad Kemp, director of regional research at Beacon Economics.”

“Banks are hoping that holding onto homes and controlling the inventory in the market would ratchet up home prices, Kemp said, a phenomenon occurring in the Inland Empire where demand is outpacing supply. Tim Adams, a realty broker associate in Redlands, said he knows of people in the Inland Empire who have been allowed to live in their homes for two years without making a single payment to the bank.”

“‘What we don’t have the information to is what we aren’t filing on,’ Adams said. ‘How many people are delinquent and not telling us.’”

“In the Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario region 18.7 percent of homeowners with mortgages were at least 90 days late on their mortgage payments in April according to CoreLogic. That is up from 14.7 percent in April, 2009. Pete Nyiri, owner of Top Producers Realty & REO in Corona, who on Wednesday was attending a national industry conference on bank repossessions in Dallas, said banks and other industry officials advise that brokers should expect their shrunken inventories of bank-owned homes to expand in the fourth quarter.”

“Nyiri said the drop in defaults gives a false impression that the economy is getting better. ‘But when you have delinquencies going up and foreclosures going down, it doesn’t take much intelligence to see there is something wrong.’”

“Banks in May repossessed nearly 94,000 homes across the country - a second straight month of record highs, and California was among the ‘hot spots.’ While lenders continued to ‘manage the inventory’ to offset ‘the negative effect on home prices,’ they’ve also ramped up the pace of completing foreclosures that were delayed over the last 20 months, RealtyTrac officials said.”

“Ultimately, only a small percentage of troubled homeowners that need help actually get it, said Whittier Realtor Chris Vigil. ‘When the loan modifications actually run their course, only 3 to 5 percent actually qualify for a modification,’ Vigil said.”

“Foreclosure activity in Hampton Roads eased in May but remained at a historically high level. Banks and lenders repossessed and auctioned off 1,563 homes last month, down 10 percent from April but up 66 percent from a year ago, according to RealtyTrac. Dotty Acampora, a foreclosure-prevention counselor for the nonprofit Virginia Beach Community Development Corp., has seen lenders ramping up efforts in recent months to schedule foreclosure auctions.”

“James Koch, an economist at Old Dominion University, called the federal foreclosure-prevention programs disappointing. Koch said he doesn’t expect the foreclosure tide to turn in Hampton Roads until the employment situation improves or lenders work through their backlog of delinquent homes. ‘More and more financial institutions are coming to the realization that if someone doesn’t have a job and gainful income, they can’t let them live in the homes forever,’ he said.”

“Stacey Howard, counselor at the nonprofit NEDCO organization, said she sees little reason for optimism so far. ‘You see people unemployed,’ she said. ‘They’re running out of long-term unemployment benefits. They’re unable to find work that will support their mortgage.’”

“Howard said foreclosure numbers tend to run in cycles. For example, when the government changes a program, loan servicers may delay foreclosures while they react to the change. ‘You see an improvement, and then you see a spike the other way,’ Howard said. ‘It’s going to take some time before we really know if the worst of it is over — have most of the people who are going to lose their houses already lost them, or are there still waves coming?’”

“In the $350,000-and-above price range — the top 15 percent of the local market — some homeowners still hold adjustable mortgages, said real estate agent Erick Harpole of Keller Williams Realty. For example, there’s a $413,500 house on Lady Slipper Loop, a $507,653 house on Wendell Lane and a $621,500 house on Los Altos Lane — all in Eugene and all up for foreclosure, according to RealtyTrac.”

“It may take four or five years for local home prices to regain their previous levels, so buyers at the top of the market, who are now in distress, may not be able to sell, Harpole said. This means more high-end houses may fall into foreclosure, he said. ‘I see the writing on the wall,’ Harpole said.”

“The slump will hang around if Stan Humphries, chief economist forZillow, is right. He sees prices in Florida staying flat for three to five years as the state works through a high inventory of foreclosed homes and pending foreclosures. ‘We think there might be more than 1 million foreclosed properties in Florida shielded by the banks right now and another 5 million either in the foreclosure (process) or seriously delinquent,’ Humphries said.”

“If bankruptcies continue at their pace of the first five months, district filings in 2010 will surpass those of 2005, the year laws were changed to make the process more difficult. ‘It’s just amazing the number of people that are struggling,’ said lawyer Jerrett McConnell, president of the Jacksonville Bankruptcy Bar Association, which has more than 200 members. ‘The housing market is what is driving it and what we are seeing is, across the board, there is a lag effect of economic woes.’”

“‘The first people we saw filing bankruptcies were people involved in the construction industry. Then we saw the contractors themselves start to file bankruptcy, and the real estate brokers,’ said McConnell. ‘And now we are seeing the upper echelon people who had cash saved up and have used their savings and they have no choice but to file bankruptcy. Now I am seeing the corporate owners and the accountants.’ His practice has experienced ‘a tremendous increase in the number of people coming in, but the biggest increase is in the upper class - accountants, doctors, people who would have been considered, five yeas ago, wealthy.’”

“Those are folks making $250,000 a year or more and many of those he sees have substantial real estate holdings. ‘With a downturn in the market, they can’t find renters for their properties or are having lines of credit pulled,’ he said. ‘They can’t keep the ball rolling, so to speak,’ he said.”

“Carol Cook, a licensed real estate agent in Carrollton, said it appears that foreclosure rates are pretty steady for now. ‘I think a lot of them (homes) have been foreclosed on for a while and they are just now coming on the market,’ said Cook, who mentioned a house on the new foreclosed property listings that was foreclosed on in June 2009. ‘We’re seeing a lot of that right now.’”

“The recessionary escape route has been plotted for Savannah’s community banks. Beef up deposits. Step up lending criteria. Sell off foreclosed properties. Charge off uncollectable loans. Put aside more money earlier in the year to deal with future losses. Raise new capital from investors. The getaway is a slow one, however, because of delinquent loans.”

“‘Non-performing loans are still the ball and chain around the banks’ legs,’ said Ed Sibbald, a local banking analyst. ‘Or maybe it’s more like the albatross around their necks.’”

“The community bank albatross is largely a product of pre-recession lending practices and the cataclysmic drop in property values. And Savannah’s community banks, like their peers across the country, guarantee most of their loans with real estate. ‘Most banks would prefer not to go the foreclosure route and work with borrowers to have the resolution because it’s in the best interest of both parties,’ Darby Bank CEO Ray Fisher said. ‘But there is a fine line there. At some point, you have no alternative but to go the foreclosure route.’”

“‘We’ve been in a long period of chasing values downhill,’ The Savannah Bank CEO John Helmken II said. ‘It’s like trying to catch the falling knife: Should you catch it or let it hit the ground?’”

“On May 31, Alex Pemberton turned on his computer, clicked on the New York Times website and read about a St. Petersburg couple who had stopped paying their mortgage yet were still dining on steak and enjoying weekends on their ‘gas-guzzling’ airboat. Like many readers, Pemberton was incensed by the tale of these apparent deadbeats.”

“‘If I didn’t know it was me,’ he says, ‘I would have been the one digging out the pitchforks and torches and knocking on my door.”’

“He says he and girlfriend/business partner Susan Reboyras have been out on their old yellow airboat exactly twice in the past 21/2 years. Acquired from his father’s airboat business on the Withlacoochee River, it’s been for sale for years. And Pemberton says he mentioned Outback and Hard Rock — where he sometimes plays the penny slots — only when the reporter pressed him for examples of what they might do for entertainment. ‘I want people to understand the real story,’ Pemberton said.”

“Records show that Pemberton lost another house to foreclosure in 2001. He says he had a chemicals business that failed, leaving him unable to repay a loan he got to repair the run-down house he inherited from his grandmother. For the past several years Pemberton has lived with Reboyras, her two daughters and a raccoon named Roxy in the 1,400-square-foot house that Reboyras bought for $135,000 five years ago.”

“She later refinanced for $195,000, using the money to pay off house and truck loans and to buy another truck as the prize in a contest for the animal trapper who referred them the most business. But as their restoration work slumped, she stopped making payments last June. They know they will probably lose the house in the end. But for now, they joke about their ‘mansion’ and readers’ mistaken impression of their lifestyle.”

“‘We’re not living high on the hog, as you can see,’ Reboyras said as a visitor nearly tripped over an old carpet remnant serving as a door mat. ‘If this is high on the hog,’ Pemberton chimed in, ‘I don’t want no part of it.”’




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90 Comments »

Comment by michael
2010-06-11 06:22:36

the albatross around my neck is the fact that CDs are earning less than one percent.

Comment by Ben Jones
2010-06-11 06:59:16

Hanging on to that dough is probably a good idea, as you might need it:

‘We think there might be more than 1 million foreclosed properties in Florida shielded by the banks right now and another 5 million either in the foreclosure (process) or seriously delinquent’

Comment by rusty
2010-06-11 07:08:06

The war on savings is killer.

Comment by DennisN
2010-06-11 09:19:12

I’ve been pleased with BND these past few months. It takes the place of what MM accounts were paying 4 years ago, but with obvious risk. Since it’s an ETF you can bail when the time is right for only a transaction fee.

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Comment by mikey
2010-06-11 09:22:09

“The war on savings is killer.”

Yeah, but relaxing with Jack Daniels after supper, content in your rental with money in the bank, sure beats trying to dodge all of those bood thirsty creditors and their lawyers throwing hand grenades.

Knock yourself out and givum Hell Sherman.

:)

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Comment by rusty
2010-06-11 09:31:05

You got that right! I prefer single malt and a cigar while floating around my rented pool.

 
Comment by are they crazy
2010-06-11 10:49:59

Seriously. No debt, money in the bank, able to take advantage of good deals when they come along, reasonable rental is much better than pie in the sky investment deals. Make up what you could get in interest by using your cash to your best advantage IMHO. Plus, peace of mind - priceless.

 
 
 
Comment by rusty
2010-06-11 07:11:55

We are trying to rent in South Tampa near the good schools. The rental market really dried up quick at the end of May. But if you look at the number of foreclosures and pre-foreclosures in the area it is amazing. Trouble is, none are really avaiable. If they call came on the market at the same time, we’d be able to buy cheaper than renting down there. And we plan on being there 7 years so even a dip after that wouldn’t hurt.

But they are hiding all that inventory, letting the current occupiers live rent free, while we end up having to pay for private education since no affordable houses are open.

Before this week it was 50/50 move or pay, but lack of houses is forcing our decision for us. Thanks banks!

Comment by Ben Jones
2010-06-11 07:15:50

Yeah, it’s not right, is it? I hear there is a petition to do something about it somewhere on the web.

BTW, I’m heading your way starting tomorrow. Maybe you can join us in Tampa.

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Comment by rusty
2010-06-11 08:16:17

I’d love to, and told the wife you were coming and that I was interested. I need to search and get the details and meet up.

 
 
Comment by saywhat
2010-06-11 07:53:07

Yup, it’s happening all over the place. Renters pay rent and the owner/occupiers are living free. I thought about that the other day wondering maybe we should have bought and sat there without paying one mortgage payment for say three years minimum and bank it all. There are some really good schools in new Tampa, Tampa Palms for example, just don’t go to Pasco.
Where in Tampa will you be Ben?

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Comment by Ben Jones
2010-06-11 07:56:57

I’m gonna be all over Tampa and the surrounding metros. I expect to hang around that area for a few days. You can check the link on the forum for ideas about what to see and do and I’ll have running threads on each leg of the trip.

I also have a day or two to visit other parts of the state. The one place I’ve got to see is Lee County.

 
Comment by parrish dave
2010-06-11 10:13:07

Hey Ben,
Would love to hit a meetup in the Bradenton up to Ruskin areas. I haven’t really been around
looking much in the last 2 years since we got this rental. I don’t know how things have
worked out in the many developments that had been thrown up. It sure looked bleak
then. You should check out the Apollo Beach and Ruskin areas. I can give you
some specifics (Palmetto would be better if he’s around). I was aware of many
other disaster developments in the Bradenton, Ellenton, Parrish areas as of a couple years
ago - not sure what’s happened since though, but I could give you location info.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2010-06-11 12:34:05

Hey Dave,

Yes I’ll be in Bradenton. Send me an email when I get close.

 
Comment by ProperBostonian
2010-06-11 16:16:41

Ben, Not sure if you will be in this area and don’t know if this has already been discussed, but it might be interesting to see this property.

Lehman Brothers paid $60 million for 600 acres of unentitled farmland in South Florida to be used for single-family homes, called Indiantown in Martin County. 224 acres of it sold last December for $100 (and a value of $53,000).

http://fl-martin-appraiser.governmax.org/propertymax/rover30.asp?sid=F84BED35A3244764B43209B571EB84D9

 
 
 
Comment by DinOR
2010-06-11 08:53:04

“and another 5 million either in foreclosure (process) or seriously delinquent”

Good Lord. That is staggering ( even by Gov’t Standards ) I can’t even get my head wrapped around that?

Comment by rusty
2010-06-11 09:35:21

go look on realtytrac, it is astounding the blanket of foreclosures out there. Everybody that was the last sucker to buy in 2006 is bailing out, plus those losing their jobs in the past 4 years, or did the HELOC ATM machine one too many times.

But if you drive in those areas, you see one, maybe two that are ‘real’ foreclosures. The rest all have squatters in them looking out the windows, while vultures like myself circle.

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Comment by mikey
2010-06-11 08:54:35

“‘The first people we saw filing bankruptcies were people involved in the construction industry. Then we saw the contractors themselves start to file bankruptcy, and the real estate brokers,’ said McConnell. ‘And now we are seeing the upper echelon people who had cash saved up and have used their savings and they have no choice but to file bankruptcy. Now I am seeing the corporate owners and the accountants.’ His practice has experienced ‘a tremendous increase in the number of people coming in, but the biggest increase is in the upper class - accountants, doctors, people who would have been considered, five yeas ago, wealthy”

…and then, the rats came for the poor Winston and the Taxpayers.

:)

 
Comment by exeter
2010-06-11 09:52:52

“Hanging on to that dough is probably a good idea, as you might need it:”

I believe you’re correct.

My most recent observations are that strategic defaults are very real, not a media created fantasy. We found out yesterday afternoon that my daughters friends parents just walked away from a shanty they paid $859k for in Nov2005. And honestly I’m interested in the place because it has a pond on it with the most voracious bass I’ve ever caught. Of course it’s only worth maybe $200k to me and was likely right around that price B4 The Great Housing Fraud. I don’t expect to see it hit the REO roster for another year anyways.

Also, the new inventory showing up on REO lists just keeps getting better and better albeit still over priced

Comment by DinOR
2010-06-11 10:49:03

exeter,

Thanks for being precise and all but considering the price ( I think most of us would’ve guessed ‘05 regardless? )

Right! If you’ll recall “Mr. OvervaluedBlogspot dot com” his inference was that ‘any’ property situated within smelling distance of ‘water’ be it an ocean view ( or a drainage canal! ) commanded a premium!

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Comment by In Montana
2010-06-11 12:42:43

The goobermint built a runoff basin next to our property, so now we get a seasonal “lake” for a couple months a year, with ducks. What’s that worth, I wonder?

‘course we’d have to show during lake season.

 
 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2010-06-11 15:16:06

‘We think there might be more than 1 million foreclosed properties in Florida shielded by the banks right now and another 5 million either in the foreclosure (process) or seriously delinquent’

These are mind blowing numbers considering it’s only one state. Yet, the builders continue building. Unbelievable nonsense.

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2010-06-11 08:42:56

I may have done better renting longer than buying here in Boise, but the hyper-low-interest-rates may have evened things up. I could have rented a nice house for $12K a year, but the $270K I paid for this house would have returned only half that as interest on savings if I had rented and saved those funds. Comps are now about $210K so I’ve lost maybe $60K over 4 years. Rent over 4 years would have been about $48K and I would offset that with maybe $20K interest generated for a net rental cost of $28K. So by these back-of-the-envelope nunbers I’ve lost maybe $32K owning rather than renting.

My larger mistake was keeping my cash in MM accounts back in 2006-2007 as I wanted the flexibility to make investments as opportunities arose. No such opportunities arose and I now kick myself for not locking up most of my money in 5-year CDs paying around 5%. My not doing so was a much larger mistake than buying vs. renting.

Comment by DinOR
2010-06-11 08:57:03

DennisN,

Well that and any sensible LL would want to charge your one cat as a roommate! ( Please tell me you’ve gotten her on some sort of kitty exercise program? )

For those that may not be familiar ( this beast makes Garfield look “athletic” )

Comment by DennisN
2010-06-11 09:17:06

Poor Susie died several months ago, at age 13 and having diagnosed cardiac problems for at least 10 years. Her cardiologist was amazed she hung on for as long as she did.

Little Dukie (orange tabby male) was getting lonely being the only cat left in the house so I went down to the shelter and brought back a friend for him. She’s an all black female I’ve named Condoleezza after a great American icon. Both Susie and Dukie are 4 year olds so they have the same energy level.

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Comment by DennisN
2010-06-11 09:20:36

Make that Condi and Dukie are 4 year olds. I’ve had a hard time shaking the typing of “Susie and Dukie”.

 
Comment by DinOR
2010-06-11 09:52:13

DennisN,

I’m sorry to hear that. Our #2 daughter’s “Blue” ran off and we haven’t seen for weeks. We’re pretty sure a bobcat or something got to him. ( They haven’t figured out a way to break it to our granddaughter yet? )

Getting back to your rent vs. buy scenario, I’m just not sure there ‘was’ a right way to play this? People make everything sound so damned turnkey here sometimes?

“It’s simple, Buy Gold and Rent” To do anything ‘else’ (regardless of your tax position, age, income braket, dependents or religous/sexual prefernce ) is pure suicide!”

 
Comment by In Montana
2010-06-11 12:49:25

I just wish I’d let my 401k and IRA ride in equities through 2008 and 2009, like they tell you to do. I’m easing back into DCA now but with only about 10% of my total.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-06-11 17:59:09

Think of the low yield on your CDs as a contribution to the future survival of America’s banking sector, and you will feel much better about it.

 
 
Comment by Chris D.
2010-06-11 07:57:46

I usually just hang out here but never post. But, I ran a crazy idea past my wife the other day. We live in Asheville, NC. We’ve been eyeing this modest ranch house in a great location very near where we rent. So, we know the area very well. Have a kid in school just up the street. The house was FSBO for a year, then for rent, then rent-to-own, and now no sign at all. Just empty.

I told her we should declare salvage rights and move in. We get the details on the property. Then, we just back up a truck, jimmy the lock, unload the furniture, hook up the utilities, plant some flowers, and start mowing the lawn. Take banana bread to all the neighbors and introduce ourselves. If we keep our apartment as a fall back option, I bet we could negotiate a sweet price on that house. What’s the worst we could get, a tresspassing/squating charge?

You all know a lot more about this sort of thing. What think ye? Just a thought experiment to kick off the weekend.

Comment by rusty
2010-06-11 08:23:51

Squatting sounds cool, but the missus isn’t into that much risk. Good luck on your endeavor, I think others here have done exactly that!

 
Comment by DennisN
2010-06-11 08:26:18

I think “hook up the utilities” may be the sticking point.

Comment by Chris D.
2010-06-14 11:50:06

I appreciate everybody’s feedback. The utilities would be tricky, but I could plug a generator into one of the circuits. An appraiser friend said I’d have to be sure not to vacate the place for fear of the owner barring the door. He figured it would take 60-90 days to get the sheriff to arrest me if the owner simply would not negotiate and insisted on pressing the trespassing violation. No salvage rights for land-lubbers, I guess.

 
 
Comment by Ol'Bubba
2010-06-11 08:32:44

Find a North Carolina real estate attorney. It might be worthwhile to see who has title to the property now to estimate how aggressively they will defend their property rights.

You could have someone who is a real hard-@ss and will pursue a criminal prosecution.

It’s all fun and games until someone pokes an eye out.

Comment by exeter
2010-06-11 09:55:58

Weird….. My wife suggested the same thing yesterday in jest.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-06-11 18:01:03

Poking an eye out???

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Comment by DinOR
2010-06-11 08:47:39

“The house was FSBO for a year, then for rent, then rent-to-own, and now no signs at all. Just empty”

Flop.

Yeah getting the gas, W & S hooked up ‘could’ be an issue? I’d def. keep the apt. Chris, sometime back Ben Jones ran a story on some “advocate” down in FL that was encouraging the homeless to do exactly that! Rummage thru the archives, I’m sure it’s in there somewhere?

Comment by Wickedheart
2010-06-11 11:06:04

It’s one thing to talk about it but another to actually do it. Now it’s easy for skanky people with nothin’ to lose but the rest of us, naah.

Comment by HARM
2010-06-11 15:27:08

Squatting isn’t just for “skanky” broke people, Wicked. If done right (as in, consult a good RE attorney first), you could end up: (a) a proud mortgage-free homeowner, or (b) live rent-free in a nice house for several years –and then repeat the process elsewhere.

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Comment by DinOR
2010-06-11 16:08:41

“Squatting isn’t just for “skanky” broke people” LOL

HARM ( So good to see you haven’t lost your touch? )

No actually as a matter of fact when I leave the office today I have an appt. w/ my Squatting Consultant! Now all we need is a clever designation they can put on their business cards.

 
Comment by Athena
2010-06-11 16:52:09

Harm! yay, you’re here… good to see you!

 
Comment by HARM
2010-06-11 17:45:18

Nice to see you guys (and gals) as well! Has Ben announced a West Coast blog get together? Be nice to meet up with everyone again.

 
Comment by HARM
2010-06-11 17:47:04

Not sure why, but my last post got swallowed up. I’d love to meet up with everyone at another get-togther with Ben. Is one being planned?

 
 
 
 
Comment by 2banana
2010-06-11 12:46:36

Why don’t you find the owner and make an offer instead of trying to steal the house?

Comment by HARM
2010-06-11 15:30:25

I think Chris D was making the point that the current “owner” (bank, flopper, taxpayer…?) isn’t really serious about selling the place, or it wouldn’t have been “…FSBO for a year, then for rent, then rent-to-own, and now no sign at all. Just empty.”

My guess is, any serious (and reasonably priced) offer would be rejected with extreme prejudice, if it was acknowledged at all.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-06-11 15:33:00

My guess is, any serious (and reasonably priced) offer would be rejected with extreme prejudice, if it was acknowledged at all.

Yeah, like that $375k duplex (that was the amount published on the NOD) that I’ve been telling y’all about. It’s on East 3rd Street near Richey Boulevard in central Tucson. As of last Sunday, it was wide open.

So, if anyone’s looking for a place to crash…

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Comment by DennisN
2010-06-11 08:25:14

Pete Nyiri, owner of Top Producers Realty & REO in Corona…

You know times are tough, and will remain tough, when businesses put “REO” into their company name.

And no, I’m not discussing Ransom Elias Olds and his car company either. :lol:

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-06-11 08:55:24

Here in Tucson, it’s looking like payback time for a real estate scam that got busted by the Arizona Attorney General.


Police look at realty suit in killing at Chick-fil-A

BTW, I’ve been in touch with one of the two authors of this story. Reason: I used the murder victim’s former employer (Tucson Mortgage) as my originator back in ‘04.

I wasn’t an HBB-er back then, so let’s just say that I didn’t know how to choose a mortgage company. It was a horrible experience. And I’m not the only one to have gone through such an ordeal with Tucson Mortgage. Turns out that they’ve been beyond awful for years.

Comment by DinOR
2010-06-11 10:00:16

Arizona Slim,

Sad story all the way around. Still, given the “earnest money” was assured to be nothing more than a grand.., I’m not sure that was necessarily the motive?

Even if you bought into TEN of his straw-buyer schemes, it’s still not worth the chair. Got to be more to this?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-06-11 10:24:47

Here’s your HBB Armchair Detective, back with more info on this story:

The hit man may not have been one of the investors who was only out a grand in “earnest money.” He might have been one of the renters-wanting-to-own one of the houses.

Think of it: R2O schemes tend to come with above-market rents for the renters. Supposedly, the excess is going toward the purchase of the house. But, as we HBB-ers know, things don’t always work that way.

And let’s suppose that, like a lot of R2O buyers, this guy wasn’t really qualified to buy. And, when he found out that he couldn’t buy the house in which he’d been living and paying above-market rent, he might have been a bit upset.

Sometimes, people who are a bit upset retaliate. I think that’s what happened here, but the story is still developing.

More details on this real estate scheme can be found here:

Terry Goddard Announces Settlements in Real Estate Fraud Case

Comment by DinOR
2010-06-11 11:53:38

Slim,

Thanks for backfilling that. You just knew there had to be more. Since the avg. FB is losing about a grand a day in equity, if it were only that, you’d think there’d be a whole lot more shootin’ going on?

And I think it’s odd that no one commented on the very first FB in the thread, Mr. Daniel Taylor out in St. Chas., IL? Now if he did something like dress up as ‘Dorothy’ from the Wizard of OZ or took a shot at someone, maybe he could get his Mod done?

I mean c’mon people, let’s have some ‘fun’ w/ this thing.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2010-06-11 13:59:28

D, I did common the Mr Daniel Taylor… See below….

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2010-06-11 17:37:31

s/common/comment/

 
 
 
 
Comment by DennisN
2010-06-11 10:24:30

I don’t know why the cops have dismissed the previous shooting by a bicyclist as “unconnected”.

A bike is an odd getaway vehicle for a murder. An angry witness may follow them with a car and intentionally hit them, risking only a scratched fender.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-06-11 10:25:50

Good point, DennisN. I can’t generalize about all of the two-wheeled types in T-town, but as a general rule, we tend not to take potshots at people.

 
 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2010-06-11 13:35:10

Isn’t shooting Realtors and Mortgage Brokers considered a public service by now?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-06-11 13:44:30

Hey, sfbubblebuyer, are you reading my thoughts? Methinks that a lot of Tucsonans are thinking the same way, because our daily fishwrap isn’t allowing comments on any of the articles relating to this murder.

 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2010-06-11 14:07:59

“Police don’t think the two shootings are connected, Pacheco said. In the earlier case, Piazza confronted a transient at a dumpster, and the transient shot him in the leg before riding his bicycle away.”

Let me get this straight: this guy has been shot TWICE by guys who rode away on bicycles! The first time was three years ago; the second time was fatal.

What are the odds?

As Dennis mentioned, a bike is an odd getaway vehicle for a murder… Having the same oddity occur twice to one guy certainly seems particularly odd.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-06-11 14:29:55

If I were going to use my bike to ride away from a crime, you’d nail me before I even got out of the parking lot.

 
Comment by DinOR
2010-06-11 14:53:31

No, I don’t necessarily see a connection. Before, the guy was just a slimey mortgage broker fluffing appraisals and lining up straw buyers.

Just prior… to his untimely demise he was a “Christian” slimey mortgage broker aligning himself w/ like-minded ( read comeback kids ) praying to the Money God.

The guy that shot him is going to hell because “He isn’t ‘that’ person any more!”

 
Comment by Weed Wacker
2010-06-11 14:58:16

As a bicyclist that lives in Tucson I feel uniquely qualified to address this apparent coincidence. The odds go up considerably when you realize that most bicyclists here are regularly packin heat.

I am joking (I hope), but the mentality around here really is that this is the wild west and it is your god given right to carry concealed firearms everywhere you go.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2010-06-11 15:51:00

Well, you never know when you’ll run into a Realtor, ya know?

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-06-11 16:17:40

Hey, Weed Wacker, what part of town are you in?

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Comment by Weed Wacker
2010-06-11 18:06:41

I am renting a newly built house off on the far southwest side of town, near the Sol Casino. It is one of those places where they were planning to build a lot of houses, but then it just stopped. Streets are laid out and foundations laid, but missing houses. Of the finished houses there are quite a few for sale and for rent signs, but not as many as you might expect. My landlord put this place up for sale last Dec, but took it off after a few weeks when he wasn’t attracting the buyers or mainly the price that he wanted.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Dman
2010-06-11 09:15:34

I don’t necessarily envy all those people living for free in houses they have stopped paying for - they are living day to day, waiting for that letter to show up, or the phone to ring, not knowing when they will have to pack up everything and move. Whether they have lost a job and are just hanging on by the skin of their teeth, or freeloaders who don’t want to pay for a house they won’t make any money on, it can’t feel good knowing the life you are living can be taken away at a bank’s whim. Some of them may think they are being smart and should be admired for their cleverness, but I don’t see anything to admire in living the life of a squatter.

Comment by Ben Jones
2010-06-11 09:28:44

I think that was one point of the St Petes article at the end. The NYT piece made it out like they were living it up at the steakhouse, but it turned out to not be the case.

Because I go into so many foreclosures, I can tell you that these people aren’t happy campers. Sometimes they leave notes to each other behind, or even scrawl messages on the walls (!) about how terrible things have turned out. Unopened bills all over the place. And then there are the obvious signs of anger, which says a lot.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2010-06-11 10:16:48

I sure hope you stay safe from all of that anger, Ben! 8-/

 
 
Comment by Kim
2010-06-11 11:50:59

In an old neighborhood a long time ago, on the way home from work one evening I drove by a house where all the contents had been thrown on the front lawn. There was a car parked on the side of the road in front, and judging from the nervous glances the driver was shooting in my direction, the stuff she was loading in the car probably wasn’t her own.

So no, I don’t think think the FBs living that way are living easy. However, the fact that I am not seeing many scenes similar to that one I witnessed so long ago makes me suspect today’s FBs have gotten a lot savier as to exactly how long they can drag out the free ride.

 
Comment by HARM
2010-06-11 17:54:42

I don’t envy the life of your typical squatter-by-default, but wouldn’t it be rather different for the legal savvy squatter-by-choice? Your Strategic Squatter would have done his/her homework, consulted with a good local RE attorney, know exactly what his rights are, and what notice is required prior to eviction (in most states, the sheriffs can’t just arbitrarily show up unannounced, change the locks and throw your crap to the curb). It may not be a permanent deal, but then… what is? You can be out on your ass in 30 days or less for non-poyment of rent.

Strategic Squatting ™. It’s what’s for dinner!

Comment by Eddie
2010-06-11 22:01:02

Wow. I never thought I’d live to see the day when someone on the HMM would show sympathy for so-called FBs. The times, they are a changin’

Comment by HARM
2010-06-12 22:41:49

Sympathy for FBs?? Are you crazy?
I’m talking about squatting for us JBRs!

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Comment by Carl Morris
2010-06-11 09:16:24

‘It’s like trying to catch the falling knife: Should you catch it or let it hit the ground?’

I know which one I’d choose, but most folks seem to go the other way.

Nice collection of quotes and stories, is it really possible that as a nation we’re getting close to moving beyond denial?

Comment by SMF
2010-06-11 10:37:08

I told my wife that if either of us loses our jobs, we’ll simply stop paying the mortgage.

Don’t worry, it was only used to purchase the home, not as a HELOC.

But I won’t eat our savings up, and ruin our health, in trying to keep a house that won’t be affordable to us anymore.

We’ll stay around the house, paying utilities and everything else till they kick us out. The savings over that time should be substantial.

Comment by DinOR
2010-06-11 10:44:23

SMF,

( The wife and I pretty much agreed the same )

Back in the Tech Bust we both tapped into our 401k’s ( after our considerable savings had been depleted ) to keep our home “afloat” ( to borrow a term from Ms. Jackson )

In our case it was fortunate that it worked out. We were on the upswing of the boom and it paid off nicely when we went to sell and bubble-sit.

Would it work out the same today? Doubt it. We determined at our age, we simply can’t afford to tap into our ret. accts. again, it just would not be worth it! We wouldn’t have time enough to backfill and it sure ain’t coming from RE appreciation?

Comment by SMF
2010-06-11 13:58:22

Eventually, regardless of all the realtor speak, it is only a house.

We love where we are at, we like the house.

But in the end, being together is what matters, not killing ourselves financially over a house.

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Comment by DinOR
2010-06-11 14:47:22

SMF,

True, but even beyond that, my wife and I have been slaves to a house before. It’s nothing we’d care to replicate. In the end, there’s so many things we want to do w/ out lives besides putting lace on windows?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by swguy
2010-06-11 10:08:06

250K A YEAR?
Lets see over 25k a month and people have trouble paying their bills, yes this country needs basic economics classes, if you can’t live on 25k a month you need a shrink not sympathy?

Comment by DennisN
2010-06-11 10:30:59

…the biggest increase is in the upper class - accountants, doctors, people who would have been considered, five years ago, wealthy.’

Those are folks making $250,000 a year or more and many of those he sees have substantial real estate holdings. ‘With a downturn in the market, they can’t find renters for their properties or are having lines of credit pulled,’ he said. ‘They can’t keep the ball rolling, so to speak…’

It’s really bad planning to count on that ball keeping rolling. You should always plan for the outliers occuring. These guys obviously didn’t.

Heck I’m living on $25K a YEAR. It can be done. You just have to work hard and live a frugal lifestyle.

Comment by DinOR
2010-06-11 14:45:18

“It’s really bad planning”

Compared to… say, Nicolas Cage? Sheesh, that dude was a one-man-bust! You know, early on ( a ‘few’ of us projected ) this would impact the faux wealthy as bad or worse than the rest of us. Only to be soundly rejected!

 
 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2010-06-11 10:15:25

“‘I have no idea what’s going on,’ he said. ‘I’m paying what I am supposed to pay, but they have me sitting in limbo.’””

I’ll tell you exactly what’s going on, Daniel Taylor: they are bleeding you for everything that you have.

Think about two alternative scenarios:

1. You lose your house after exhausting your savings.
2. You lose your house but do not exhaust your savings.

In which scenario would the bankers be better off? In which scenario would you be better off?

The stupidity of people who cling to their underwater houses until they truly have nothing left to lose never ceases to amaze me.

Comment by DinOR
2010-06-11 14:33:03

Prime,

Yes, and normally I’d agree without reservation. However, according to the article, he’s only underwater $16k. Chump change in today’s REIC-run bizzaro world.

Secondly, it really was a modest home, and the guy ‘made’ good money. ( Evidently his employer contributed to the wrong campaign? ) Personally, I think the poor guy’s problem was that he WAS paying!

In that regard, you’re absolutely right. But Daniel should reserve his ire for StratDef’s ( not the bank )

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2010-06-11 17:01:21

DinOR: yes, he’s not very FAR underwater. But the point is that the last thing he should be doing with his limited savings is feeding that alligator.

He’s spent the last year unemployed and not making the required adjustments to his cost-of-living.

Imagine the position he would be in today if instead of burning through his savings, he had been adding to them while doing a strategic default and preparing to move to a rental?

The key is in recognizing and accepting that if you are underwater, you actually own _nothing_—nada, zilch, zero. The bank owns the house, and you are renting it from them at an above-market rate. It makes perfect sense to move to a different rental, and if the bank wants to take two years to get around to asking you to move, that is their loss.

Even if he could afford the house when he initially bought it, he can’t afford it now. He needs to come to terms with that and adapt.

 
 
 
Comment by bink
2010-06-11 11:30:31

We’ve found a place to live in Oahu. It only took us a little over a week. The house was purchased near the end of last year by an overseas investor. Our rent payments will be far less than the mortgage alone, even if they put down 20% or more. Nearby in the neighborhood are a short sale, a foreclosure, and a seller with a wishing price well above market value. The short sale has been “gutted”, which seems odd to me for a short sale. It does say they have a primary and a secondary mortgage on the place. The secondary being almost 1/2 of the primary. Sounds like someone pulled out some cash.

Prices in the neighborhood are still more than 30% above their 2003-2004 prices. We still have a long way to go here.

Comment by Dman
2010-06-11 12:15:01

You get to live in a house in Hawaii for less than it would cost to buy, and the “owner” gets to eat the loss. Sweet deal.

Comment by bink
2010-06-11 12:30:45

With any luck they’ll lose their nerve just as the market bottoms and sell it to us for a steep discount. It’s a very nice house with some great views.

Comment by DinOR
2010-06-11 14:40:18

“The second being almost 1/2 of the primary”

bink, Whoa! Then wonder where we got off track? Be it the Aloha State, Cali or wherever, how can that be anything but a recipe for disaster?

I don’t mind being in the 2nd position but this was profoundly ridiculous? Kind of like supporting a mistress for 1/2 her expenses but she’s seeing other guys on the side too?

Any word on the Big Island?

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Comment by bink
2010-06-11 18:32:54

I can’t even imagine what I’d do with that much money. There’s nothing I want (outside of a house) that could possibly cost that much.. add up everything I want and it wouldn’t even come close.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by lavi d
2010-06-11 12:46:14

More and more financial institutions are coming to the realization that if someone doesn’t have a job and gainful income, they can’t let them live in the homes forever…

Hm. This didn’t stop banks from giving them loans in the first place.

 
Comment by 2banana
2010-06-11 12:49:32

‘Right now, there’s no help for those people other than time is on their side,’ Placeres said. ‘The normal foreclosure process takes a year from missing your first payment. Now, people have been in homes a year and a half to two years and not been foreclosed on.’”

Tiiiiiiimmmmeee is on my side - yes it is!!!

Especially when you don’t have to pay the rent or mortgage for 2 years!

 
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