Bits Bucket For June 24, 2010
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The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
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Hey Ben! Travel safe!
Hey Ben, were those fires in AZ anywhere near you?
Yeah, but downwind. It’s fire season and happens every year. That part of the west has been in a drought for a long time.
Hi DC Area HBB’ers:
We have a preliminary schedule for Friday the 25th. We are going to meet at the Capital Building at 10am on Friday, the exact location will be given to the people who contact Ben by e-mail.
Friday evening at 6pm we are going to have a meetup someplace close to Union Station. I imagine it will go on for quite a while so don’t worry about it if you are coming in late because of work or travel. But let us know if you are coming and approximately what time so we hold a spot for you. Again, exact location will be sent to RSVP’ers.
If you have question don’t hesitate to post them here or to e-mail Ben or me. (However, I will be offline starting at 2pm tomorrow so after that be sure to contact Ben.)
Hope to you see you there!
Since I won’t be there, I’d like to ask you all to do me a favor. While at Union Station should you run into a North African limo driver who refuses to use the taxi stand and is approaching commuters asking them if they need a ride, slip a vial of crack cocaine into his pocket. Then call the police on him. As he is being carted away I want you to scream out, “that’s for BINK!”
If you need help finding a vial of crack during normal business hours, I believe Marion Barry has an office several blocks away in Southeast.
Thanks in advance.
Let me guess: The limo driver promised to take you to your destination then, after taking your money, kept you waiting while he hustled up other passengers to fill up his limo.
Nah, this was something that happened to an ex-girlfriend of mine. I had to put on my cape and come to her rescue.
I think if you told a DC police officer that you suspected a black man in DC of carrying a vial of crack, they would probably just say: “What is your point, you just described half the population.”
Not to mention the other half are carrying regular cocaine.
We have a preliminary schedule for Friday the 25th.
Have a wonderful time folks. I won’t be there, I’ll be moving into a new apt. near the Strip.
I’ve been stuck in “Stuccolin” outside Vegas over five years - it’s time to experience the real Sin City for a while.
Someone, at sometime please make a toast to Oly.
Travel safe, party hard, come back happy!
“Someone, at sometime please make a toast to Oly.
Travel safe, party hard, come back happy!”
I 2nd that e-motion,…bottoms up!
Also to your new digs Mr. lavi d,… Cheers!
So when are you going to have an apartment warming party?
Hey, San Diego RE Bear
Could you count how many folks you spot wearin’ a tie-dye shirt while your out & about our Nat’l Gov’t headquarters, I need to calculate my odds for getting a “profile” arrest while visiting the Smithsonian with Mr. Cole.
Tankxs
I think your odds are very high of getting arrested, but more based on your Warner Bros. obsession over your appearance.
But yes, I will scout the area and see if you can blend in.
And no doubt there will be toasts to Oly.
I am sorry to miss the reunion … I was so looking forward to getting together again but alas work calls and I am on my way to Turkey.
Am sorry to hear it Maldonash. We’ll miss you.
Sent an email, I expect to get into town around 6PM on Friday (coming from Norfolk, Virginia.) Going to skip the data center visit. Look forward to the meeting!
The Wall Street Journal
* POLITICS
* JUNE 23, 2010
Confidence Waning in Obama, U.S. Outlook
By PETER WALLSTEN And ELIZA GRAY
Americans are more pessimistic about the state of the country and less confident in President Barack Obama’s leadership than at any point since Mr. Obama entered the White House, according to a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll.
The survey also shows grave and growing concerns about the Gulf oil spill, with overwhelming majorities of adults favoring stronger regulation of the oil industry and believing that the spill will affect the nation’s economy and environment.
Sixty-two percent of adults in the survey feel the country is on the wrong track, the highest level since before the 2008 election. Just one-third think the economy will get better over the next year, a 7-point drop from a month ago and the low point of Mr. Obama’s tenure.
Amid anxiety over the nation’s course, support for Mr. Obama and other incumbents is eroding. For the first time, more people disapprove of Mr. Obama’s job performance than approve. And 57% of voters would prefer to elect a new person to Congress than re-elect their local representatives, the highest share in 18 years.
The results show “a really ugly mood and an unhappy electorate,” said Democratic pollster Peter Hart, who conducts the Journal/NBC poll with GOP pollster Bill McInturff. “The voters, I think, are just looking for change, and that means bad news for incumbents and in particular for the Democrats.”
Mr. McInturff said voters’ feelings, typically set by June in any election year, are being hardened by frustration over the economy and the oil spill. “It would take an enormous and seismic event to change the drift of these powerful forces before November,” he said.
Mr. McInturff added that any “little, faint signs” in the spring that voters were adopting a more optimistic outlook have now been “squished by feelings from this oil spill.”
For Democrats, the results underscore the potential for major losses in November. Both parties have been forced to contend with an anti-establishment wave this year. But Republicans, through strong fund raising and candidate recruitment, have put enough seats in play in the House and Senate to give the GOP a realistic shot at winning control of both chambers.
Support for Mr. Obama and his party is declining among centrist, independent voters. But, more ominous for the president, some in his base also are souring, with 17% of Democrats disapproving of Mr. Obama’s job performance, the highest level of his presidency.
Approval for Mr. Obama has dropped among Hispanics, too, along with small-town residents, white women and seniors. African-Americans remain the firmest part of Mr. Obama’s base, with 91% approving of his job performance.
…
“For the first time, more people disapprove of Mr. Obama’s job performance than approve . . . The voters, I think, are just looking for change.” LOL. It amazes, and scares, me that it takes the average American so long to spot a bs artist. No wonder we are in the mess we are in.
“No wonder we are in the mess we are in.”
The solution is on its way: “The results show ‘a really ugly mood and an unhappy electorate’ …both parties have been forced to contend with an anti-establishment wave this year.”
It’s time to throw the old bums out and replace them with some new ones.
Yeah, those pols made Americans borrow billions to spend more than they earned, and CEOs loot their companies.
I’ve come to decide that their actions actually reflect majority American values at this time. They aren’t leaders, they are followers.
I have to agree with you … as sad as this is
You are correct.
Which way is the wind blowing?
Because people are STUPID, and think the evil rich “owe” them “free” stuff, so they vote for big eared gas bags that promise them “free” stuff. However for some, reality sets in at some point.
“Because people are STUPID, and think the evil rich “owe” them “free” stuff, so they vote for big eared gas bags that promise them “free” stuff.”
The truly “evil” rich should be compensating others for the damage they have done which is considerable.
And the evil rich have convinced an entire group of chronically underemployed people that they too will be rich someday……. and are dumb enough to believe it. But the truth is something entirely different. These people were born into wage slavery and will die wage slaves.
Right WMBZ?
The truly “evil” rich should be compensating others for the damage they have done which is considerable.”
Some upper 1% are NEVER effected by Main St., sometimes get a “spanking” from Wall St., but carry on just the same…seems only a taste of “Divine Intervention” has any effect on their behavior.
Particular South Carolinans, slavery, pigs, its all there:
Other proponents, like John Stuart Mill, argue a qualitative approach. Mill believed that there can be different levels of pleasure - higher quality pleasure is better than lower quality pleasure. Mill also argues that simpler beings (he often refers to pigs) have an easier access to the simpler pleasures; since they do not see other aspects of life, they can simply indulge in their lower pleasures. The more elaborate beings tend to spend more thought on other matters and hence lessen the time for simple pleasure. It is therefore more difficult for them to indulge in such “simple pleasures” in the same manner.
“LOL. It amazes, and scares, me that it takes the average American so long to spot a bs artist.”
Cheney-Shrub…8 years… of… “Shazam-Islam-is-now-Democracy” / “reduce taxes for the wealthy” while “no-bid-supplying” x2 foreign Wars / and leaving the American economy in the worst financial condition in over 80 years?…
I’m not amazed or scared in the least, in fact, I think the Average Amercian needs a good lesson in reduced hedonism. Of course the way things are currently, you have to have something of value to be reduced in order to be “humbled” and I’m not talking about items from Wal-Fart.
I think the Average Amercian needs a good lesson in reduced hedonism.
“Reduced hedonism” — is it the New Black?
Well, it is a color match for this contemporary dress suit: “Price reduced”
Reduced hedonism?
Man, I can just picture certain people wandering aimlessly w/o their products to define them. How will they know who they are and what their purpose is in life w/o their collection of fashion forward and approval seeking logos. Dude, you’re just asking way too much.
(ok, my mil says from afar I look just like one of them….till I open my mouth but that’s just my sports gear : ) )
Don’t be a hater, dude.
Hedonism is purposeful - wine, women, and song! What we have running rampant is materialism - the competitive hoarding of plastic crap and square footage. Please don’t confuse the two!
Signed,
A devout hedonist
Haterade = wasted “vital energy,…FPSS can “insert” a comment at this juncture.
No confusion, just reminds of some Epicurean (Lutheran-Methodist + some sex) friends I know:
Epicureanism:
Epicureanism is a system of philosophy based upon the teachings of Epicurus (c. 341–c. 270 BC), founded around 307 BC. Epicurus was an atomic materialist, following in the steps of Democritus. His materialism led him to a general attack on superstition and divine intervention. Following Aristippus—about whom very little is known—Epicurus believed that the greatest good was to seek modest pleasures in order to attain a state of tranquility and freedom from fear (ataraxia) as well as absence of bodily pain (aponia) through knowledge of the workings of the world and the limits of our desires. The combination of these two states is supposed to constitute happiness in its highest form. Although Epicureanism is a form of hedonism, insofar as it declares pleasure as the sole intrinsic good, its conception of absence of pain as the greatest pleasure and its advocacy of a simple life make it different from “hedonism” as it is commonly understood.
Epicurus
In the Epicurean view, the highest pleasure (tranquility and freedom from fear) was obtained by knowledge, friendship and living a virtuous and temperate life. He lauded the enjoyment of simple pleasures, by which he meant abstaining from bodily desires, such as sex and appetites, verging on asceticism. He argued that when eating, one should not eat too richly, for it could lead to dissatisfaction later, such as the grim realization that one could not afford such delicacies in the future. Likewise, sex could lead to increased lust and dissatisfaction with the sexual partner. Epicurus did not articulate a broad system of social ethics that has survived.
“LOL. It amazes, and scares, me that it takes the average American so long to spot a bs artist.”
Why should you be amazed? I mean look how long Bush was able to bs the average American. He pulled a pretty good con in his day.
Hey sister.
All presidents are BS artists. They are puppets. Marionette strings, yo. Bilderberg runs it. And the man, and stuff.
I wish I could articulate this better, but I have always believed if every ballot for every public office voters were offered voters the choice “none of the above” then our government would improve over time.
My reasoning is that if we offered voters this choice then more people would take the time to come to the polls to express their opinions. It would also give politicians a reality check.
Right on, Bubba. One gets a bit weary of being offered a choice between sh*t and sh*t on toast.
I believe the options were perfectly described by Matt Stone and Trey Parker…. Vote for a Sh*t Sandwich or a Giant Douche.
Choose between excrement or a hygienic rinse? I’ll go with the giant douche and leave the turd sandwich for others.
By the way, douche is the Spanish word for shower.
Little known fact that I feel obliged to point out when the topic arises:
Douches cause yeast infections.
Not surprising that all the douche companies also sell yeast-infection cures. You can thank me later, thanks.
By the way, douche is the Spanish word for shower.
The word you’re looking for is ducha.
“Douche” is French.
Kinda fitting, considering their current President. But I digress.
…. the evil of two lessers!
I wish I could articulate this better, but I have always believed if every ballot for every public office voters were offered voters the choice “none of the above” then our government would improve over time … It would also give politicians a reality check.
I don’t disagree with any of that thinking, but I’m left to wonder what would happen when, inevitably, “None Of The Above” captured a majority or plurality of the vote.
Would the seat devolve to the incumbent? Would there be a series of runoffs? Would the seat be placed into “receivership”? Would KBR or Halliburton win a no-bid contract to provide appropriate political services?
Good points, ET. I imagine that none of the above would sweep almost every election as disafffected voters would turn out in great numbers.
Perhaps instead of calling it “none of the above”, maybe it should be called a registered abstained vote. It would show that the voter cared enough to come out and vote, but neither candidate captured their ballot.
It leads to the possibility of never electing anyone to a position.
Which might not be a bad thing. Especially if we insisted congress and other gov bodies aren’t allowed to act without a quorum.
What would really happen, though, is you’d get some appointee or person who it falls to to run the place trying to keep the position by smearing everybody in the next round of voting so he or she can maintain their non-elected position.
They would maybe do like the Brits and combine their offices. The third party (?) will opt to choose one side or the other with stipulations. Eventually common sense will prevail.
… what would happen when, inevitably, “None Of The Above” captured a majority or plurality of the vote.
I think that is what may be happening right now (starting a couple of years ago)
Maybe Uncle Opie should try to make just one problem better, just one.
We all know he was given a financial mess, but “most” of his solutions have only contributed to more chaos.
Come to think of it, what problem has gotten better???
If he wants to stay in power he has to forget about his Saul Alinsky-ite way of thinking, but alas, I don’t think that’s possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Alinsky
Now there’s a fella I’d like to see share a bag of pretzels with Shrub.
When work is done without talking, people say: “we did it!” Lao Tzu
Saul:
“Not at any time. I’ve never joined any organization—not even the ones I’ve organized myself. I prize my own independence too much. And philosophically, I could never accept any rigid dogma or ideology, whether it’s Christianity or Marxism. One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as ‘that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you’re right.’ If you don’t have that, if you think you’ve got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated. The greatest crimes in history have been perpetrated by such religious and political and racial fanatics, from the persecutions of the Inquisition on down to Communist purges and Nazi genocide.”
Nor did he have much respect for mainstream political leaders who tried to interfere with growing black-white unity during the difficult years of the Great Depression. In Alinsky’s opinion, new voices and new values were being heard in the U.S., and “people began citing John Donne’s ‘No man is an island,’” he said. He observed that the hardship affecting all classes of the population was causing them to start “banding together to improve their lives,” and discovering how much in common they really had with their fellow man. He stated during an interview a few of the causes for his active organizing in black communities:
“Negroes were being lynched regularly in the South as the first stirrings of black opposition began to be felt, and many of the white civil rights organizers and labor agitators who had started to work with them were tarred, feathered, castrated—or killed. Most Southern politicians were members of the Ku Klux Klan and had no compunction about boasting of it.”
Alinsky described his plans in 1972 to begin to organize the White middle class across America, and the necessity of that project. He believed that what President Richard Nixon and Vice-President Spiro Agnew called “The Silent Majority” was living in frustration and despair, worried about their future, and ripe for a turn to radical social change, to become politically-active citizens. He feared the middle class could be driven to a right-wing viewpoint, “making them ripe for the plucking by some guy on horseback promising a return to the vanished verities of yesterday.” His stated motive: “I love this goddamn country, and we’re going to take it back.”
Can’t help wondering what the Republicans would have done. I suspect not too much different.
Why would you wonder with 8 immediate previous years record staring you in the face?
What logical and rational person would expect an economic recovery in a matter of a few years? Years? It will probably be a decade or more.
Remember, Bush and his cronies were in office eight-years. The nightmare lasted eight long years.
When do Americans want their problems solved? Now! Not tomorrow. Not next week. Not next month. Now! Sorry! Sometimes life doesn’t work out as you planned. You know, life isn’t always a bowl of cherries. I hate to break the news to you.
Americans want instant everything. A microwave to cook food in a few seconds. A Viagra pill for an instant erection. A laxative for an instant you-know-what.
I’m so sorry Obama hasn’t been able to turn Bush’s failed policies around in a few short months. Life should be painless and worry-free. We all deserve the good life.
“I’m so sorry Obama hasn’t been able to turn Bush’s failed policies around in a few short months.”
Yeah, but he doesn’t have to put them on steroids, either.
Obama is way in over his head. I can’t even bring myself to hate the guy, like I did Bush. Sometimes I feel desperately sorry for O, but more so for the US.
Maybe Obama should take steroids. I’ve heard it promotes testicle growth. And Obama needs b***s to stand up to these crazy Republicans.
I have mixed emotions about Obama. He has great charisma but that’s not going to make much of a dent solving our problems. He seems to be a bit aloof and regal.
I think many Republicans are envious and jealous of Obama’s great gifts and they want to see him fail. To the detriment of our country.
I think Obama is in over his head but not to the degree George W. Bush was. At least Obama has more smarts. But I have questioned some of his decisions. I think he’s been trying to accomplish too much too fast.
And Obama needs b***s to stand up to these crazy Republicans.
By ‘crazy republicans’ you mean the democrat-controlled house and senate, right?
Zachary,
No roids for Obama, his balls will shrink further!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabolic_steroid#Adverse_effects
Are you sure about that? I’ll be asking a few questions.
I’ll put the ball in my shrink’s court next week when I see him. These psychiatrists are smart guys.
He’s got the balls, but his party doesn’t.
With friends like those, who needs enemies?
“Obama is way in over his head. I can’t even bring myself to hate the guy, like I did Bush. Sometimes I feel desperately sorry for O, but more so for the US.”
So why can’t you hate him? Because he’s democrat and he’s good looking? I can’t even believe I’m saying this because well, I really, really hated Bush but Bush wasn’t responsible for the mess he inherited either. The stock market crashed under Clinton and we were going into a recession when Bush took over. Bush is responsible for the housing bubble and making the mess he inherited 10 times worse. Just like Obama is responsible for the mess he is making now. Obama’s handling of the disaster in the Gulf is even worse than Bush’s handling of Katrina. Meet the new boss same as the old boss. They just keep blowing one bubble after another but you know what despite Obama’s best efforts that ain’t working anymore.
I think Obama is in over his head but not to the degree George W. Bush was. At least Obama has more smarts.
Well it will be hard to tell as apparently all his transcripts from college are “locked down”. Everyone thought John Kerry was such an intellect until they compared his college trancripts to Bush’s.
Obama’s stance on taxes, health care reform, financial reform, cap and trade and immigation have magnified the problem immensely. It has nothing to do with failing to work magic, and everything to do with taking deliberate action to destroy our Country and our standard of living. Meanwhile he spends the majority of the day playing basketball and golf, and planning for parties and celebrity appearances, while his wife goes on lavish shopping sprees. When a major crisis hits he just curses and points fingers rather than devote any time to actual solutions.
Yeah. Thank god Wall St. didn’t bring us to the brink of total world destruction! And the medical industrial complex was finally lowering prices. And our energy industry was becoming more safe and efficient.
Oh wait…
A comedian’s take on Viagra:
Ritalin for the male genitlia!
He went on: dude you don’t need Viagra, you’re bored. Develop some creativity.
“dude you don’t need Viagra, you’re bored. Develop some creativity.”
Ha, I hadn’t thought of Rash Limpbaughs for months now, dang you.
Now, Rash Limpbaugh has a reason as to why he’s carrying Viagra if he’s detained by airport security again.
Why would a single man such as Rush be carrying Viagra? I don’t get it. Conservative, moral guys like Rash don’t mess around.
Now he has a reason. A wifey.
“Now, Rash Limpbaugh has a reason as to why he’s carrying Viagra if he’s detained by airport security again”
Perhaps, but he’s still gonna have to xplain why the bottle has Larry King’s name on it, right?
Remember, Bush and his cronies were in office eight-years. The nightmare lasted eight long years.
Yes. Clearly it’s all Bush’s fault..
::rolls eyes::
All????
Okay, let’s make it 99.99999999 percent Bush’s fault.
There’s a reason I post it thus: Cheney-Shrub
I blame the Communists…Yes the Communists.
Communism can not flourish with the big Capitalist Giant USA in business. The only way that system has a chance is if everyone is communist. For years they have been infiltrating schools/universities, the media, unions, prisons, and all departments of government at all levels. They slowly poison the minds of the young and the poor and sabotage our Republic from within. They disguise themselves as Progressives and mask their true intentions with calls for social justice. Capitalism is the enemy they say. True capitalism died long ago and has gradually been chiseled down to the current corrupt quasi-socialist system we see today…and if the progressives are successful, our system will implode and we will be ripe for the kill.
Don’t look now, gold bugs, but The Precious™ is suddenly dropping like Wile E. Coyote holding the anvil the road runner just handed him as he fell over the edge of the cliff. I have seldom seen such a steep downwards trajectory in an asset price.
But don’t worry — the gold price always goes up, in the long run.
Your “gold is in a death spiral” posts every few months, for years now, are a little tiring.
But it’s so much fun to bait the gold bugs that I can’t resist. Just wait until the panic subsides and gold starts dropping like a rock — I can’t wait!
The other part is that since real estate trolls have largely gone extinct as a human sub-species, there are few other true believers on the HBB to pester aside from the gold bug set.
“since real estate trolls have largely gone extinct as a human sub-species”
Let’s do a RE cockroach test: drop some $8,000 tax credits crumbs on the “get stucco” floor, turn off the lights, and see see how many show up!
Hence the name “Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower” or a shorter version “Sh*t Disturber”
Wish it would go down so I could buy the dip.
Give it twenty years…
He does not bother me. Nor Combotechie. As they have been predicting gold to drop like a rock, it’s been going the opposite, about 30% over a year ago, for example.
12% of my holdings in “the precious” is enough for me.
This sounds like what people were saying about real estate in 2004. At this rate it will be at $2000 an ounce in a couple years. Gold only goes up.
That’s why I hold to 12% only! Got 34% of my assets in government securities to hedge against precious metals.
I wonder at what point people will find gold not a worthwhile investment/speculation. The higher the price, the harder it will be to find new buyers. The higher the price, then less likely high returns are possible. What I mean is that at $1000/oz a 20% return is $200. At $2000/oz a $200 increase is only a 10% return. For a high return to continue over years, this gets more and more ridiculous sounding. Give this 5 years and you have 3000/oz gold. I just think a lot of it is speculation and a lack of a new bubble to run after. People will look at gold as something that is too late in the game or a played out speculation. Sure it would have been great to get in at $500 or 800/oz, but not $2000 or $3000. That may be too much risk for the perceived reward.
I guess then going from $35 per ounce in the early 70s to $800 per ounce in 1980, a 22-fold increase, was amazing back then. And It took 30 more years to get over $1200 per ounce.
Or if you want to start with $270 per ounce in 2001 and go through the same 22-fold increase as in the 70s, the price would be over $6,000 per ounce at the top of the bubble.
That’s if all gold bubble are similar.
Greenspan is thinking we are going the way of Greece. Yahoo’s Tech Ticker today mentioned a similar warning. If you think the US will go the way of Greece, where their spot price of gold is $1700 per ounce priced in US dollars, you’d want to hang onto gold.
You could say that gold had a 22 fold increase, but what happened after that?
Reduced to a 7-fold increase over a 30 year period - poor, compared to the S&P 500 index. But then ballooned back to where it is a 35-fold increase in nearly 40 years.
Very educational. Shows that in the long term, patience is very rewarding.
I will never understand why people that don’t like or have even a slight understanding of gold pay any attention to it. Just makes no sense, of course these same folks are the ones that said it would be back down below $800.00 by now. It’s okay to be clueless but it’s not really wise to advertise it.
Even us stoopid people like to keep an eye open.
I, in turn, will never understand people who take blog posts at face value. And it does strike me how true believers in The Precious™, in light of their cleverness in recognizing its unique value as a special investment class, get a mite touchy whenever anybody dares to question their wisdom.
It recalls to mind discussions of religion with my wife into which I have occasionally stumbled over the years.
I can’t wait until gold makes it’s big fall so I can read your “I told you so” post. You’ve had many years to perfect it so it must be really good.
FB, the irony is that gold is setting up for a breakout to the upside. Don’t you gold defenders even look at what is happening? Of course it may not happen, but gold is not falling off a cliff.
I would welcome a near term drop. It would be an excellent time to reload the wagon.
Precious™ is dropping again, OH MY!
by that you mean it’s at $1245/oz, off it’s recent high of $1262?
SELL! SELL! SELL!
This is great news, as there will be less need for interest rates to build in a credit default risk premium if those who feel A-OK about walking away from their mortgage obligations are kept out of the mortgage market for a very long period of time. Further, it will be much easier to restart the private market for loanable funds if investors need not worry about people who have no qualms about stiffing creditors.
* LOANS & CREDIT
* JUNE 24, 2010
Fannie Set to Penalize Defaulters
By NICK TIMIRAOS
Fannie Mae said Wednesday it would “lock out” borrowers from getting a new loan for seven years if they default on a mortgage they could afford to pay.
The move represents the latest effort by the mortgage industry to prevent a new wave of losses that could result if more borrowers who can afford their monthly payments instead opt to “strategically” default on loans, because they owe far more than their homes are worth.
“Walking away from a mortgage is bad for borrowers and bad for communities, and our approach is meant to deter the disturbing trend toward strategic defaulting,” said Terence Edwards, Fannie’s executive vice president for credit portfolio management.
The government-owned mortgage-finance titan also said it planned to step up legal actions to pursue deficiency judgments in states that allow lenders to go after borrowers’ other assets. In addition, Fannie said it would instruct its lender partners to monitor delinquent loans owned by Fannie, and recommend cases that warrant attention.
Fannie’s move comes amid greater concern that it has become socially acceptable for borrowers to stop paying their loans, and that such a shift could exacerbate the housing bust. Those worries are particularly acute in Arizona, Nevada, Florida and other hard-hit housing markets where it could take years for borrowers to return to positive equity.
Nearly one in four homeowners with a mortgage is underwater, or owes more than their home is worth, according to CoreLogic, a real-estate data firm. A Morgan Stanley report estimated that around 12% of all mortgage defaults in February were strategic.
In 2008, Fannie revised to five years from four the period that borrowers with a foreclosure must wait before they are eligible for a new loan.
Under the new rules, the five-year waiting period is eliminated. Borrowers who can’t document “extenuating circumstances” or show that they made an effort with their lender to avoid foreclosure will have to wait seven years to get a new loan; those who can demonstrate hardship or attempted a workout with their lender may have to wait only three years.
Its smaller sibling, Freddie Mac, also requires borrowers with a foreclosure to wait at least five years. Foreclosures can stay on a credit report for up to seven years.
…
Its like saying: “If you shoot me in the head, I will not let you play with my gun anymore.”
Seven years really isn’t all that punitive IMO.
Seven years sounds perfect to me.
1) It will enable those who walked away from homes they could not afford to buy the time to get their financial houses into order again; they can most likely even save up a downpayment over seven years if future home ownership is among their financial goals.
2) It will enable lenders to reduce the interest rate they charge prospective customers, which will include a lower percentage than before of people who are comfortable with summarily walking away from their debt obligations.
3) It will encourage savers to supply money to the market for loanable funds, thanks to lower risk of default.
4) It will provide a seven-year window for people who did not walk away from their mortgages to buy a home (if they are into that sort of thing) without competition from others who are happy to borrow large sums of money they don’t intend to repay unless it proves convenient to do so.
If it seems like I am a bit steamed about this issue, perhaps that is a reflection of a couple of under-30 types I have talked with over the past two weeks who told me about close friend (well, boyfriend in one case) or relative (brother) who strategically defaulted.
Both of the debtbeats were real estate investors.
“Both of the debtbeats were real estate investors.”
“…who keeled at that scared “altar”: “Cash, …from a SINGLE transaction” you may kiss the bride.
Seven years……Dad lost money on a house in 1960. He lived another 45 years and never wanted to have a mortgage again, ever. A whole generation of “buyers” is getting flushed.
Sounds good to me. I was already flushed as early as 2005, though I did not recognize it at the time. This is a natural part of the correction to get the housing sector back into line with the rest of the American economy. It will take a few years for the economy to weather this adjustment.
“expect delays…work ahead!”
“The move represents the latest effort by the mortgage industry to prevent a new wave of losses…”
“Latest effort”, lol.
They should start numbering these “efforts”: Effort #1, Effort #2, …
Or have a catagory called Effort Of The Week.
““Walking away from a mortgage is bad for borrowers and bad for communities, and our approach is meant to deter the disturbing trend toward strategic defaulting,” ”
Giving a mortgage to someone who can’t afford it is bad for borrowers and bad for communities, but we’re going to keep on doing it to continue the disturbing trend toward strategic defaulting,
from the post…
“those who can demonstrate hardship or attempted a workout with their lender may have to wait only three years.”
So there’se the out for Fanny. Come 3 years from now, they can define ‘hardship’ and ‘attempted workout’ anyway they want. Suddenly they have re-activated a slew of borrowers.
“those who can demonstrate hardship or attempted a workout with their lender may have to wait only three years.”
Right..so if you’re *smart* about it, you get dinged for 7 years. But if you’re simply a bad credit risk due to not having enough income to cover your debts, only 3 years.
Makes perfect sense. Really.
Well, wouldn’t their credit report have done just that anyway? In California, bad debt is on your report for 7 years. Its even longer in some states.
This is a headline at CNN money this morning.
Nevermind that housing is in the tank. They are trying to get as many housing suckers as they can to start borrowing!
http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/24/news/economy/mortgage_lending/index.htm
Where is this going to lead?
“Where is going to lead?”
Probably to more bank failures. Remember, the guys at the top making these decisions are the same guys that screwed up so royally in the past.
Peeling another layer off the onion, another sign to hold one’s cash tightly. No one said this was going to be easy.
Also remember that if bank failures become sufficiently wide spread, the guys at the top get bailed out. So they may as well take the riskiest possible gambles with the largest rewards if they win and the largest potential losses if others lose.
Does this mean they think the shadow inventory will be coming online at markdown prices?
They must understand the recent bump up in purchases was due to the tax credit, unless they know there’s more government new and improved ultraspiked kool-aid to come.
You probably all posted about this yesterday but for California (from the Mercury News): U.S. approves $700 million plan to aid California homeowners.
Not that it will go far - but programs include:
Up to six months of mortgage assistance for homeowners who have lost their jobs, with a cap of $1,500 monthly
Assistance for homeowners who owe past-due payments, with a required match by the mortgage lender or the borrower, with a cap of $15,000
Mortgage principal reduction for underwater borrowers, those who owe significantly more on their loans than their homes are worth. Details have not been announced, but the goal is to work with lenders to get principal balances to “market levels,” according to the Keep Your Home website.
“Transition” assistance for those who can’t afford to stay in their homes, are completing a short sale or signing the home over to the lender in lieu of foreclosure and must move to other housing.
Step:
I said this last year…they just have to give everybody a $2000 reduction on their credit card balance…and a lot of people will go out and charge it back up….immediate stimulus…no funny games of guvmint or the banks keeping the money …they cant, one day I wake up and I owe $2000 less…
$2,000 times say 50,000,000 cards equals…..$100 billion…chump change to the trillions we just spent for the next few years
I do this every month, pay off the balance and then charge it back up. It is fun!
If I let the government make that play for me, they’d have to tax me twice as much to make it happen. That wouldn’t be so much fun. If they taxed me to pay yours, well, I’d be out of the game and you’d buy stuff that I wouldn’t have any fun with. No thanks.
Blue:
Trust me i’m nowhere near my limit….I’m frugal..always been.
But it seems to me what a direct way to get a stimulus to the people. BurrNakee said drop money from helicopters…well most people have at least 1 card.
It will never happen beyond a possible small token, because you and I are not actually significant political entities in this game. I don’t see the word “bank” in your title or mine.
The $2,000 per person/credit card is a better option than giving money to the banks, but a worse option than doing nothing.
Maybe they see the economy tanking, deflation taking hold, long rates coming down significantly dropping fixed rate mortgages to new all time lows, and want to gear up for the prepay wave that results. New mortgages can be made without home sales.
The bank is also shifting to a branch-based lending strategy because it found that these mortgages are much less likely to default. And the bank sees a need in these markets.
Wow, mortgages underwritten by people who’s job depends on how well the mortgages perform have fewer defaults than a third party mortgage broker who’s paid by volume?
STOP THE FRIGGIN’ PRESSES!
The core issue behind this whole financial crisis was separating lenders from repayment risk.
If you can make a loan, package it, and sell it off to the taxpayer (Fannie/Freddie) for a healthy sum, and wipe your hands of it, you’re going to be interested in signing as many people up for loans as you can.
The core issue, and I hear virtually no one talking about it.
I think the core issue is “housing always goes up”. When everybody believes that, everybody believes there is no risk.
Lead?
With real UE at 17%, nowhere.
World Faces ‘More Economic Problems,’ Investor Jim Rogers Says
(Bloomberg) — The world will have “more economic problems” because it depends on “too much debt and too much consumption,” investor Jim Rogers said.
“I’m short stocks and long commodities,” Rogers said by phone from Hong Kong today. “America of all things they think the solution to too much debt and too much consumption is more debt and more consumption. Which means they are going to print even more money.”
What else can we do? We’ve pretty much offshored all income generating assets to Asia.
Some days ago someone here asked why was it important to keep manufacturing here in the US.
The answer is quite simple.
First of all, not everyone who works at a factory is a knuckle dragging, overpaid simian. There are managers, industrial engineers, maintenance people, supply chain jobs, shipping and receiving, warehouse jobs, etc. Send the factory overseas and those jobs will go with them.
Once the factory is gone, other functions follow it. Tooling, design work, accounting, R&D and marketing eventually follow the factory to wherever it goes.
And of course, there is the multiplier effect. Once the factory and its affiliated jobs are gone less money is spent locally which affects Main St businesses, the local tax base, etc.
“First of all, not everyone who works at a factory is a knuckle dragging, overpaid simian.”
We’ll have none of that un’Murikan commie talk around here Mister!
Barry needs to check with his pal to see how its done . . .
Venezuela to nationalize U.S. firm’s oil rigs
Reuters ~ Jun 24,
CARACAS (Reuters) – Venezuela will nationalize a fleet of oil rigs belonging to U.S. company Helmerich and Payne, the latest takeover in a push to socialism as President Hugo Chavez struggles with lower oil output and a recession.
A former soldier inspired by Cuba’s Fidel Castro, Chavez has made energy nationalization the linchpin in his ‘revolution’. He has also taken over assets in telecommunications, power, steel and banking.
The 11 drilling rigs have been idled for months following a dispute over pending payments by the OPEC member’s state oil company PDVSA. Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez said on Wednesday the rigs, the Oklahoma-based company’s entire Venezuelan fleet, were being nationalized to bring them back into production.
My, what a surprise.
Other presidents in America history would have a thing to say or do something about this.
Unfortunately, the current occupier of the WH will like study and copy these tactics.
You mean sending our sons and daughters to fight another war to protect the interests of the super rich, many of whom are not even Americans?
At one point in our history, protecting the rich’s interests meant protecting our own interests but w/globalization and outsourcing of labor, not so much.
Go study where lyrics “Shores of Tripoli” came from in the the Marine’s Corps Hymn
So, just to be clear, you’re advocating starting a third war? Wars are expensive, you know? Don’t you moan about how much the gov is spending in your other posts?
Hard to be a ’small government’ fiscal conservative and advocate sending our troops to fight multiple overseas wars, but you’re not alone in this hypocrisy.
Just like the conservatives who demand to know why the government hasn’t fixed the oil spill yet. Shouldn’t ‘free enterprise’ fix it? I thought government was the problem, not the problem solver. I thought it was the welfare queens who cried for ‘Uncle Sugar’ to make everything right. Looks like the pot has been calling the kettle black, so to speak.
I don’t know what you’re trying to say, Sloth.
I would note that “free enterprise” is trying to “fix it”, but it’s not getting the chance because the union-loving Prez won’t waive the Jones Act. And let me be straight when I say “free enterprise”. I just mean free; free help. Countries with skimmers and super tankers are offering free help and being turned down because of the Jones act. What’s going on with that? Bush waived it quickly during Katrina so cruise ships could come in to port and help, didn’t he? Was that bad?
From the LATimes:
“Q: Did the Jones Act prevent the U.S. from immediately accepting the assistance?
A: The administration and Allen say the Jones Act has not prevented the response team from accepting the offers to the help in a timely fashion. In a June 11 press briefing, Allen said “we are more than willing to consider Jones Act waivers” and noted that foreign vessels were being used. A statement issued June 18 said that 15 foreign-flagged vessels were involved in the cleanup and none required Jones Act waivers.
That’s in part because of a specific exemption in the act that can allow for the use of foreign “oil spill response vessels,” said H. Clayton Cook, a Washington attorney and expert on the Jones Act.
“That takes care of your skimmers and your oil spill vessels,” he said.
Cook, a Republican, said there has been longstanding opposition to the act, which many see as protectionist and a bow to unions, but there is no evidence that Jones Act is standing in the way of the cleanup. “This is being used for political purposes. It’s a classic red herring.”
Many on this blog bemoan the off-shoring of manufacturing jobs. The end of the Jones Act would mean no American shipyards and no American owned vessels (tugboats, barges, tankers) as the foreign owners of shipyards and shipping companies pay slave wages, especially in Asia and Central and South America. If all you care about is low prices,great. If we have none of our own shipyards and everything has to be done out of the country, the trade deficit goes up as we pay other countries to do things we can do. Also,do we want other countries, friend or foe,to build our ships for the Navy?
Many marine companies are non-union. My company employs 115 highly paid, very skilled,non-union employees who make a good living and average about 15 years with the company.
Also, any politician that tells you there are not US flagged boats and barges available is full of it. We have made available to as many state and local officials as we can meet over 50 large barges from our fleet and 25 tugboats and pushboats, as well as cranes and other needed equipment. Our competitors have done so as well. We have also notified the BP/Federal task force of our assets. The locals have been blocked from doing anything on their own, even threatened under federal emergency laws,so they are just watching their communities get ruined. BP and the feds don’t know what to do and BP doesn’t want to spend the money. They’ve done enough to make it look like they are trying for the media, but they could do much more.
If I was any local official, I would ignore the feds and do whatever I thought was right. Much of it won’t work, but doing nothing isn’t the answer. Any oil we can keep off the land is that much less to clean up.
+1 HottyToddy and alpha sloth
I guess it’s all in your sources. Try using Google with these terms:
holland ships oil cleanup jones act
I trust a lot more of what I read there than some guy answering questions for the LA Times.
It also seems like in most cases when the government is accepting help, it’s transferring any technology it can and turning boats away. “Give me your equipment and we’ll do it ourselves”.
But I give up. God himself couldn’t convince you, Excreter or ecofeco of anything. I’ve never seen a more self-righteous bunch in my life. Well maybe my aunt and her religion, but I digress.
I hope Helmerich follows good German tradition and has plenty of concrete on board, just to inflict a tiny bit of Payne.
Those on the right should also comment on how a Chavez get’s elected. Could it be that massive wealth concentration via manipulation of gov eventually get’s the masses angry.
Chavez didn’t happen in a vacume.
vacuum.
And the other part of the story that isn’t being told is that oil companies refused to pay their Venezuelan taxes and had been warned their operations would be confiscated.
For years.
Thank god we don’t do those kind of socialeest/commie things here with the IRS.
Oh wait…
And yes, Love him or hate, Chavez is the people’s “champion” (whether real or not) and he didn’t get that way because people were bored with their easy life.
As I have said here before, wait until the Chinese start nationalizing our ‘joint venture’ factories in china once they realize they’re not getting their money.
Years ago, at a Tucson post office, I met up with a fellow who said that he tried to open a Coca-Cola bottling plant in China. Shanghai, I believe. And he lost it.
From what he said, I gathered that the Chinese government took it over. Don’t know if what they were bottling was still called Coke, but this guy was definitely not involved anymore.
The corporations have been giving away all of our mfg AND tech base since the 1980s.
I STILL blame cocaine and disco from the 1970s. (I was there. And Raygun, of course)
Drip, drip, drip….
Nortel wants to dump retirees
Nortel told the federal judge in Delaware who is overseeing the bankruptcy proceedings that the retiree benefits are costing the company $2 million a month. As of Sept. 1, Nortel wants to cut off retirees’ medical coverage, prescription drug coverage, long-term disability and life insurance.
The move will almost certainly increase medical costs for the retirees and their families, who had been promised Nortel-subsidized health care coverage for life. In some cases Nortel was subsidizing nearly half the cost of medical coverage for its former employees.
Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/06/23/546757/nortel-wants-to-dump-retirees.html#ixzz0rlzEL100
“The move will almost certainly increase medical costs for the retirees and their families, who had been promised Nortel-subsidized health coverage for life.”
Promises, promises: Easy to make, tough to keep. And many more broken promises are yet to come.
Cash …
Multiply by 10,000 for all the cities and states that have even more insane pension and retiree health care costs are just about bankrupt
Looks like a few folks might fall off that mythical condo-hunting bus that’s circling the nation, somewhere out there in the ether, ready to pounce on condos from Panama City to Boise.
I was wondering how many retirees will find themselves moving to a reduced lifestyle (and selling those items they’d planned on keeping) than they’d originally planned as they’re nickled and dimed from every facet of life.
Besides the several million already there?
Nice. Earn your pension only to be told, “SUCKA!”
Ben,
I’m really looking forward to this thread/visit, as I am a potential buyer in Montgomery County, MD. Don’t forget to swing by the store and pick up one of those count up hand clickers - you’ll need that to count how many times people will say “There is no bubble here and houses are going through the roof!”
DC Metro may have the high paying jobs, but people always ignore the $13 Trillion dollar gorilla in the room. These jobs are built on our debt, and sooner or later we as Americans have to face this problem.
I don’t know, I see empty RE all over the place. I’ve got some reversion pics from Inner Harbor that’ll be up later this morning and I’m about to hit the streets of MD to see what I find.
If yor’ hair-of-the-dog stimulus don’ work, yo can try soaking yerself in a whole tub full o’ moonshine…dat’ shor to make you feel better…
Looking Back, The Fed Never Cut Enough
Posted: June 24, 2010 at 4:23 am
24/7 Wall St Real Time 500
The housing market is in trouble, and perhaps enough trouble that it will be the one sector of the economy that will face a double-dip recession. The idea that housing is related to unemployment is finally in vogue, as it should be. The HAMP plan did not work for several reasons, among them that borrowers faced the often Byzantine bureaucracies at the government and the banks. A rising population of part-time workers with no benefits, high consumer credit, and the record number of homes worse less than their outstanding loans added to the program’s woes.
…
A number of press reports out after the Federal Open Market Committee notes were released said that the Fed is “out of ammunition.” That is hardly the case.
N. Gregory Mankiw, a professor of economics at Harvard, suggested a year ago that the Fed should move interest rates below zero. That would allow it to underwrite an economic expansion. Banks could borrow money at $1 and pay back 99 cents. The Fed could add a negative interest rate program to another round of aggressive mortgage paper purchases and probably push mortgage rates to 2%. Businesses could borrow without the need to pay significant interest. These actions might begin to free up enough liquidity more than offset a host of problems in the economy.
…
Instead of just pushing on the string they want to just throw the whole spool down the hall?
Denial runs strong with the PTB. It’s over, boyz.
My guess is that this is exactly what is coming. People continue to buy long term treasuries for a reason. Even China continues to buy.
No one would dare question the Keynesian wisdom of N. Gregory Mankiw (unless they were really cantankerous, that is…).
Ha, Mr. Bear, you just brought back an ol’ tune from Hwy’s cobwebs: “God’s Own Drunk” by Zimmay Buffett….Tankxs!
God’s Own Drunk
By: Lord Buckley
1974
“Well, like I explained to y’all before I ain’t no drinkin’ man. I tried it once, and it got me highly irregular and I swore I’d never do it again. But I promised my brother-in-law that I’d go up and watch his still while he went into town to vote.
It was up there on the mountain where the map said it would be. Friends let me tell you one thing though, it wadn’t no ordinary still. It stood up that mountainside like… like a huge golden opal.
God’s yellar moon was a’ shinin’ on the cool clear evenin’, God’s little lanterns just a’ twinklin’ on and off in the heavens and, like I explained to you once before, I ain’t no drinkin’ man, But, temptation got the best of me, and I took a slash… (wshew!… woah…) That yellar whiskey runnin’ down my throat like honeydew vine water, and I took another slash. Took another and another and another. ‘fore you knew it I’d downed one whole jug o’ that shit and commenced to get hot flashes.
Goosepimples was runnin’ up and down my body and a feelin’ came over me like, somethin’ I’d never experienced before, It’s like, like I was in love,
(”why don’t we have a little love Mike [Utley]“)
In love for the first time, with anything that moved… animate, in-animate it didn’t matter. It’s like there’s a great neon sign flashin’ on and off in my brain sayin, “Jimmy Buffett there’ a great day a comin’…” ‘Cause I was drunk.
Now I wadn’t, uh, knee-crawlin’, slip-slidin’, reggy-youngin’, commode-huggin’ drunk, I was God’s own drunk, and a fearless man; And that’s when I first saw the bear.
He was a Kodiak lookin’ fella ’bout 19 feet tall he rambled up over the hill ’spectin’ me to do one of two things: flip or fly, I didn’t do either one. It hung him up. He starts sniffin’ ’round my body tryin’ to smell fear, but he ain’t gonna smell no fear, ’cause I’m God’s own drunk and a fearless man. It hung him up. He looked me right in my eyes and my eyes was a lot redder than his was. It hung him up.
So I approached him and I said, “Mr. Bear, I love every hair on your 27 acre body. I know you got a lotta friends over there on the other side of the hill. There’s ole’ Rear Bear, Tall Bear, Freddy Bear, Kelly Jair, Relly Bear, Smelly the Bear, Smokey the Bear, Pokey the Bear; I want you to go back over there tonight and tell ‘em I’m feelin’ right. You tell ‘em I love each and every one of ‘em like a brother and a sister; but if they give me any trouble tonight, I’m gonna run every Goddamned one of ‘em off the hill.”
He took two steps backwards and didn’t know what to think. Neither did I, but, being charitable and cautious, well hell, I approached him again. I said, “Mr. Bear, you know in the eyes of the Lord, we’re both beasts when it comes right down to it. So I want you to be my buddy, ‘Buddy Bear.’” So I took ole’ Buddy Bear by his island sized paw and I led him over to the still. Now he’s a’ sniffin’ around that thing ’cause he’s smellin’ somethin’ good. I gave him one of them jugs of honeydew vine water, he downed it upright, (looked like one of them damn bears in the circus sippin’ sasparilly in the moonlight.) I gave him another and another and another ‘fore I knew it, he’d downed eight of ‘em and commenced to do the “bear dance.” Two sniffs, a snort, a fly, a turn and a grunt; and it was so simple like the jitterbug it plumb evaded me.
And we worked ourselves into a tumultuous uproar and I’s awful tired, went over to the hillside, and I laid down, went to sleep, slept for four hours, and dreamt me some tremulous dreams And when I woke up, Oh, there was God’s yellar moon a’ shinin’ on the clear cool evenin’. And God’s little lanterns just a’ twinklin’ on and off in the heavens, And my buddy the bear was a’ missin’… yeah, you want to know somethin’ else friends and neighbors, so was that still.
Spoken:
“That’s a take. Wait, could uh…..you missed it?”
As I see it, you have several monopolies (the Health Care Industry ) charging prices that would BK any Company eventually and the answer is to dump the benefits for the worker . Doesn’t anybody feel like the costs of the benefits
are artificial and price fixed to begin with ?
I was looking at health insurance quotes the other day for the hell of it and
they have raised the costs and lowered the benefits . The problem is all the monopolies are tied into each other and in the final analysis the answer is to screw the worker . The balance scales are lopsided right now and the bums in Congress keep screwing the worker in the final analysis .
Pay more, get less. It’s the new American way. Applies to taxes, too.
IMHO, three dee tee vee and movies came out just in time.
And jobs.
Work more, get less. Or just plain work less and get less.
No no no
We have a free market in medicine.
Cue laugh track!
Where????
The one place that insurance and government does NOT touch the medical field.
Cosmetic surgery.
For example, Lasik eye surgery ten years ago cost about $10,000 for both eyes.
Today, with better results, the cost for Lasik is about $4,000.
Nuff said.
2banana: the problem with your example, 2banana, is that cosmetic surgery is not medical care. It’s cosmetic.
You saying a boob job had nothing to do with medical?
The trouble with cosmetic procedures is that they have infiltrated practices that once served people with true medical needs.
Take dermatology, for example. Here in Tucson, in the sun-drenched Southwest, many practices have gone this direction. Which means that, if you need to have your skin checked for pre-cancerous lesions, you are now a second class citizen. The “smooth the wrinkles” crowd is much more important than you are.
This trend isn’t unique to Tucson. It’s nationwide. NYT did a story on it a year or two ago.
Last time I went to a dermatologist the idiot sat across the room with me fully clothed in long sleeves and pants and told me she knew my skin was fine. The waiting room was one long advertisement for cosmetic procedures and I’d obviously gotten by their filtering system. She couldn’t get me out of the room fast enough.
I can one-up both of you, YAY!
Last time I went to a derm, the guy was a very dark-skinned person from some other country. His skin was very smooth, like he was getting weekly facials or something. I was sent in by my primary care lady because she thought I should get a digital image taken of my freckles. The purpose was to go back every year and get another image taken, then have a computer scan the two images and check for differences. This is how they screen for skin cancer these days in freckley people. So, I ask the derm about it and he says he’s never heard of such a procedure. He explains to me that any freckle that isn’t “round and smooth on the edges” is likely to turn into cancer. I’ve never seen a freckle that’s round and smooth on the edges. I think those are called “moles”. So then he says that I’ll probably get skin cancer because of my freckles. I’m like “Yeah, that’s why my primary sent me to you”. He didn’t get it. Offered me a facial.
The trouble with cosmetic procedures is that they have infiltrated practices that once served people with true medical needs.
Tell me about it. I went to a dermatologist here in Vegas for mild rosacea. He asked me what I thought caused it - I said I thought it was the water, because it started after I moved here. He laughed and proscribed Finacea which, lo and behold, is an acid that (among other things) clears pores of hard water deposits - D’oh!
I got the distinct impression that he just wasn’t very interested in my case because I wasn’t there for a lift or tuck or implant - ads, pamphlets and videos for which crammed the waiting room.
And, is it possible to find a dentist who just does teeth and doesn’t try to hard-sell you whitening and straightening?
Sheesh.
Now that is funny….and sad.
I am a dermatologist who did my residency in Tucson. Don’t practice there, though. The derms practicing there for the most part are a bunch of narcissists! I perform no cosmetic procedures. I just broke down and put a cheap LCD TV in the waiting room of my office. I haven’t accepted new patients without a doctor’s referral for many years. My business model is obviously not threatened with a lot of competition. By the way, I get all my dental care in Mexico.
“….cost about $10,000 for both eyes….”
As I recall, about half of that ten grand was licensing fees from the guys that built the Lasik equipment. Payable for every procedure done, for 3-5 years(?) after delivery of the equipment.
The drop in price is due to the expiration of the license.
The price in Canada is typically less than $1500 for both eyes. I’ve had it done up there twice. They explained that in Canada they do not pay the royalty on the Machine explaining a big part of the lower price.
They explained that in Canada they do not pay the royalty on the Machine explaining a big part of the lower price.
Wouldn’t this support the argument that Canadian health care is subsidized by those in the US?
Without the royalty fees, would this technology have been developed in the first place?
Without the royalty fees, would this technology have been developed in the first place?
Ha! Invented by a Spaniard in Columbia, further major development in the USSR(!) during the 70s.
Medical advancements come from all over the world- even from commies. It’s a myth that we alone make medical advancements, and without our medical R&D, the world would still be applying leeches.
Medical advancements come from all over the world- even from commies. It’s a myth that we alone make medical advancements, and without our medical R&D, the world would still be applying leeches.
Seconded.
Medical advancements come from all over the world- even from commies.
All kinds of inventions are made all over. Many good ones never see the light of day. Why? No way to bring it to market - lack of capital, etc.
The ability to charge a premium - as supported by the US patent system (let’s ignore software and business method patents for now) as well as the capitalist system in the US provide enough upside potential that capital holders are willing to make the investment.
Take away that upside, and I think you’ll find that those with the money will just take their 5% risk free return, rather than risk losing it all for a modest gain.
My significant other had thyroid cancer 11 years ago. The cancer was removed, however, after numerous treatments (the last one occurred 3 years ago) they were still finding traces of thyroid cells in her system.
She recently had a checkup and they found additional traces of thyroid cells in her system. Doctor wants her to get two additional tests that are no longer covered by the insurance company. The estimates for the tests are $7,000 and the doctor is recommending the tests be performed once a year.
She’s had the same insurance company for about 20 years and has slowly watched as the costs the of the procedures skyrocket while the insurance companies reduce the benefits.
Any idea on how much are the tests in Mexico?
Ordinary tests like blood tests an xrays are dirt cheap in Mexico. The ones done with fancy gear like MRIs, etc, not so much.
Get your tests done in India. Even Insurance companies are sending patients to India now. It is a country with really good doctors and hospitals. A friend of mine went there for a bypass surgery, and paid $5,000 for the whole surgery including hotel stay in a 5 star hotel for a week. The hospital he mentioned was Escorts Heart Institute in Delhi. Similar surgery in US would cost at least 60K.
Yup, more globalization. Globalization sounded great to the wealthy when only “low-class manufacturing fools” were getting off-shored. Now it’s happening to doctors, and soon the executives will be off-shored. Every off-shored employee is an off-shored customer, see?
As long as policy dictates it, everyone will essentially be “forced” to go along. Can’t get the surgery done in the US because you can’t get a job that pays that much.
Yep. I remember blue collar workers being ostracized because they were making more than $10hr in the 1980s when they began offshoring.
Now the white collar sheep are finding out for whom the bell really tolled.
Payback’s a… surprise, ain’t it?!
Planet Hospital (website) is a medical tourism firm with high reviews by patients. It’s located down the freeway, in Calabasas, So Ca.
Methinks that the air is starting to come out of the health care bubble. Something about more and more people having to pay directly, rather than having “insurance” do it for them, and they can’t afford the lofty prices at the doctor’s and dentist’s office.
Any way to invest in those standalone clinics that are popping up in drugstores? Methinks that sector is about to grow, if it isn’t already.
I’d also like to see some sort of standalone place where you can get your teeth cleaned and have a quick check. At lower cost than a dentist’s office, of course. Shopping centers and/or malls would seem like a good place to have these.
Does “Medical Tests” & “Medical Treatment” & “Medical Billing” have any growth possibilities in a world of 6+ Billion humans?
From the 2010 movie remake, The Graduate: “Two words: “Think Medical”"
You would be wrong. While the growth is there, so is the constant undermining of wages. Just like everything else.
About everybody I know who has been laid off is going back to school for jobs in the health care industry. After all, everybody knows that with all the Baby boomers retiring, health care demand is going way up, and there is a “shortage of health care professionals”….
Anyone with a lick of common sense can see where this train wreck is heading.
This is what is the most frustrating thing for me to deal with. People would rather believe the BS coming out of the MSM, and the politician’s and our so-called “business leaders” talking points, and not what their lyin’ eyes should be telling them.
Yep. We’ve both been around long enough to see that wages in the health industry are going to collapse.
Just like they have for every single job out there except the FIRE sector.
“Any way to invest in those standalone clinics that are popping up in drugstores? Methinks that sector is about to grow, if it isn’t already.”
You could buy the drug store’s stock (CVS, etc.). I’m sure they profit somehow, even if its just from collecting rent on the space and perhaps increased prescriptions being filled at their location.
I’m with you on these clinics, though. They’re long overdue.
I’d also like to see some sort of standalone place where you can get your teeth cleaned and have a quick check.
Chain dental shops are appearing. One we have out here is called “Comfort Dental”. It’s way cheaper than “regular” dentists. Of course, unlike the dentist I “fired” recently, they don’t have huge, sumptuous rooms with built in fishtanks and plasma screens on the ceiling. But then again, they charge less than 1/2 of what the old dentists charges.
Of course, unlike the dentist I “fired” recently, they don’t have huge, sumptuous rooms with built in fishtanks and plasma screens on the ceiling. But then again, they charge less than 1/2 of what the old dentists charges.
You just described the office of my former dentist (Dr. Pricey) to a tee. She had a fishtank in the lobby, but, after the showcase remodeling job, the tank disappeared. Nifty-cool works of art (which had no labels beneath saying who the artists were) replaced it.
And, speaking as someone who works in the creative fields and competes against ad agencies and design firms with oh-so-cool studios at oh-so-expensive addresses, this is a real sore spot for me. To put it mildly, decor and image are expensive. And it’s the clientele that’s paying for it.
“The problem is all the monopolies are tied into each other”
The FIRE economy (finance, insurance, real estate) is the basis of all bubbles and is based on loose and hightly liquid credit. When liquidity dries up, all industries who feed at the loose credit trough will contract.
I’ve previously told the stories of the dermatologist and dentist I used to patronize. Earlier in the 2000s, both had re-oriented their practices toward cosmetic procedures.
Oh, yes, they still did plain vanilla stuff like checkups, but it became pretty obvious that the checkup crowd had fallen into the ranks of second class citizenship. And, at both places, the costs had gone up substantially.
So I ditched the dermatologist in favor of a physician assistant who’s closer to home and doesn’t cop a huge, condescending attitude if you’re of modest means. And I dumped the dentist in favor of a clinic at our local community college. Where the welcome is the warmest I’ve experienced in decades.
After I left, both sent at least one entreaty to try to get me to make an appointment again. Sorry, folks, but I’m gone. You cranked your prices way up there and treated my modest medical and dental checkup needs like they were second class. Now it’s payback time.
Amen sister biker!
I noticed the same but haven’t been able to find an alternative. I could drop $750 in one 3 person visit but they couldn’t afford enough staff to deal w/filing my insurance claim. I did get about $25/person in dental oriented gift premiums I really could have done without though.
It’s called FIRE. Finance Insurance Real Estate, and yes, their entire reason for existence is to screw over everyone.
Mortgage rates sink to lowest level on record
By ALAN ZIBEL The Associated Press
Posted: 10:08 a.m. Thursday, June 24, 2010
WASHINGTON — Mortgage rates fell this week to the lowest level on record, giving consumers added incentive to lock in low payments on home purchases and refinancings.
Mortgage company Freddie Mac said Thursday that the average rate for 30-year fixed loans sank to 4.69 percent, from 4.75 percent last week.
That’s the lowest since Freddie Mac began tracking rates in 1971. The previous record of 4.71 percent was set in December. Rates for 15-year and five-year mortgages also hit lows.
Mortgage rates have fallen over the past two months. Investors wary of the European debt crisis and the turbulent stock market have shifted money into the safety of Treasury bonds, driving down yields. Mortgage rates tend to track the yields on long-term Treasury debt.
This article gets straight to the reasons the gambling sector needs to be calved away from the banking sector. Sound banking practices are simply too boring and unprofitable for high-stakes gamblers to practice. Trying to encourage this would be about as fruitful as telling your son who wants to be the drummer in a rock band that he has to take violin lessons.
* WRITING ON THE WALL
* JUNE 24, 2010
Wall Street Sees ‘Boring Old Banking’ and Winces
Poor Banking Results Are Expected
* By DAVID WEIDNER
On Wednesday, Barclays Capital blew up its second-quarter earnings estimate for Goldman Sachs Group Inc., cutting it by more than 63%, the latest move in what’s been a slash and burn few weeks for analysts covering big banks and broker dealers.
Estimates are down. Business is not good. By many accounts, financial institutions are due for a lackluster, if not disappointing, earnings season. Some of the lost momentum is due to a slowdown, some due to the fact we’re moving on from the depths of the financial crisis, making comparisons a tougher beat.
But there’s something bigger at work too: the go-to business lines that fueled big profits during the last decade have dried up and may not be coming back for a while.
Against long odds and lobbyists, Wall Street’s glory days of massive profits may be over. “Bob” or “boring old banking” is back. What’s more, if reform has its intended effect, Bob could turn from a Wall Street tourist to a full-time resident.
In other words: you better get used to it.
…
I personally know one of the 15,000 South Floridians who received a
permanent loan modification. They have not made a mortgage payment since they received it four months ago.
More than 15,000 South Floridians receive permanent loan modifications
by Kim Miller
The Obama administration released its May report for the Making Home Affordable loan modification program today showing that about 15,050 borrowers in Palm Beach, Miami-Dade and Broward counties have received a permanent monthly payment reduction.
But nearly 429,700 homeowners nationwide have been cancelled from the program, mostly after initial income claims to earn a trial modification could not be verified, said Treasury Department officials this morning.
The number of cancelled trial modifications was just 155,173 in April.
I personally know one of the 15,000 South Floridians who received a permanent loan modification.
as long as they vote Dem come Nov, it was worth it…
CNN (IIRC) reported yesterday that 50% of mortgage modifications fail. My first thought was, “Why is this news?” - it had been reported months ago. Then I remembered that the old stat was something like 40%.
The numbers of walk-aways are increasing.
So is unemployment and underemployment.
You know the old saying, “No money, no honey.”
(So, Hwy ponders who would be left in the US Gov’t had this “law” been applied to all branches of our democracy since 1989?)
History and case law:
Since at least 1941, particularly in the 1970s and 1980s, and prior to 1987, the courts had interpreted the mail fraud and wire fraud statutes as criminalizing not only schemes to defraud victims of money and property, but also schemes to defraud victims of intangible rights such as the “honest services” of a public official. In 1987, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled in McNally v. United States that the mail fraud and wire fraud statutes pertained strictly to schemes to defraud victims of tangible property, including money.
In 1988, Congress enacted a new law that specifically criminalized schemes to defraud victims of “the intangible right of honest services.”
AP News:
WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court has sided with former Enron CEO Jeffrey Skilling in limiting the use of a federal fraud law that has been a favorite of white-collar crime prosecutors.
The court said Thursday that the “honest services” law could not be used in convicting Skilling for his role in the collapse of Enron
But the justices, in an opinion by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, said prosecutors may continue to seek honest services fraud convictions in cases where they put forward evidence that defendants accepted bribes or kickbacks.
“Because Skilling’s misconduct entailed no bribe or kickback,” Ginsburg said, “he did not conspire to commit honest-services fraud under our confined construction” of the law.
I guess increasing the value of your stock and options is not considered a bribe or motivation????
It’s a great time to be a CEO in this country.
You have all the wealth
You have all the political power
You have the courts siding with you
Game set match.
Are we not repeating the gilded age?
Yes. We are. I’ve been trying to explain this to people since 1990s.
100 years of progress have been almost completely undone.
I’m following the Supreme Court rulings these past few years. Quite favorable to big business and the rich. Just like the Supreme Court rulings were in the mid 1800’s to the early 1900’s.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The U.S. Supreme Court set aside on Thursday the convictions of former media baron Conrad Black and two ex-colleagues for defrauding shareholders of one-time newspaper publishing giant Hollinger International Inc.
The justices sent the case back to a U.S. appeals court in Chicago for further proceedings. The Canadian-born Black, who had been a member of Britain’s House of Lords, has been in a U.S. prison since March 2008, when he began serving a 6-1/2-year sentence for fraud and obstruction of justice.
Besides Black, who was Hollinger’s former chairman and chief executive, the ruling also involved John Boultbee, the one-time executive vice president and chief financial officer, and Mark Kipnis, the former corporate counsel and secretary.
A jury in Chicago found the three executives guilty of fraud involving payments of $5.5 million they received from a Hollinger subsidiary. Hollinger was once the world’s third-largest publisher of English-language newspapers.
A U.S. court of appeals upheld the convictions, but the Supreme Court set aside that ruling.
If you want to know where the money for immigration reform and citizenship for all illegals comes from. Here it is.
NEW YORK – Chief executives of several major corporations, including Hewlett-Packard, Boeing, Disney and News Corp., are joining Mayor Michael Bloomberg to form a coalition advocating for immigration reform — including a path to legal status for all undocumented immigrants now in the United States.
It’s all about undercutting labor and deviding the electorate.
Hwy stands by his Jan 1st resolution motto:
Motto for 2010: “Keep Americans safe…protect CORPORATIONS!”
I keep looking in my line for Senator McSame, waiting, waiting…he must be busy reviewing job applications for maids/landscape/cooks for x7 property maintenance duties back in ARIZONA…
Chief executives of several major corporations, including Hewlett-Packard, Boeing, Disney and News Corp., are joining Mayor Michael Bloomberg to form a coalition advocating for immigration reform — including a path to legal status for all undocumented immigrants now in the United States.
Maybe those companies might want to start paying some taxes here before telling us how to run our immigration policy and further undercutting wages of American workers. But I guess none of that matters if you have the Supreme Court in your hip pocket.
An interesting tidbit that I learned in B school while earning my worthless MBA (at least my employer paid for it) was that the “world of business” considers the nation-state to be a quaint and obsolete concept. One prof even predicted that some of the younger whipper snappers would live to see a world where countries no longer exist. When asked what would take their place, he replied “corporations”.
I knew that years ago. Business doesn’t care where it is; it isn’t “patriotic” unless it’s a local fixed business of course, or if flag-waving is good for the bottom line. Just sayin.
Just more downward pressure on wages. Another part of the massive socioeconomic shifts going on nowadays worldwide.
On one hand, you have a whole bunch of people praying for inflation, so they can pay back borrowed money with devalued currency.
On the other hand, you have the real world, where there are all kinds of deflationary pressures, and the ROI on just about everything is low, compared to the risk you are exposing your investments to.
I wish I knew how this was all going to turn out. In the meantime, I’m heading back to the bunker.
I’m starting to think that the best play is not to look too hard for answers. There’s too many scams as too many people are fighting over too little money. While it sounds like a cop out to just say hold tight and let it ride - such advice doesn’t cost a penny. And it’s probably the only advice that for which one can say that.
IMO, we’ve been living in a scam economy since about 1985, where the ROI doing scams started being a lot better than actually doing something productive.
Governments didn’t mind the scam economy, because it was paying for a lot of things the governments thought was more important (like various overseas military adventures, social engineering thru the tax code, etc)
It seems like we reached some kind of tipping point in 2008-2009, when the number of people earning livings off of scams exceeded the number of people doing honest work for a living.
What in hell does that get them? I know IT wants Indian HB-1 programmers, but they can do that in India. I don’t get it. Cheap labor for Disney World?
These CEOs must be up all night worrying that there are still middle class Americans earning a living wage.
I just got an e-mail from one of those Indian IT shops. They’d be charging me 10 bucks an hour, but lemme tell you something. I’ve gone this route before. It wasn’t an experience that I’d care to repeat.
The lesson I learned is that it’s better to use Stateside subcontractors. There’s less of a language barrier, and they’re much more used to the American “I want it yesterday!” mentality.
Yeah my company tried to work with TATA and it was a big PITA. Trying to explain a very specific app for a very narrow market to some generic programmers on the other side of the world..meh.
Yeah, we’ve heard this story before, back in 1986.
We believed the problem was addressed. But we were naive, and believed that if something was against the law, then it was government’s job to enforce it.
Back then, the illegal advocates got amnesty. The people who wanted some kind of control over illegal immigration, got some laws that nobody bothers to enforce. IOW, the illegals got something of real value, while everybody else got empty promises.
So now the politicians are caught between a rock and a hard place. The people that bankroll them want “immigration reform/amnesty”, but if they support that, the people that actually elect them will be at their front door with pichforks and torches.
“Trust” is hard to get back, when you’ve made careers out of weaseling- wording your way out of every tough decision.
Why import Mexicans? Chinese work 80 hours a week for $50. That should get labor cost in line. Better yet, just bring back slavery and indentured servitude, like if you can’t pay your mortgage…that’s the ticket.
Two warnings to fellow HBBers. On CNBC the talk has already begun on more credits for new home debtors. When a gentlemen from the CATO institute got his time to argue against the credits the feed started getting bad and then just went to color bar test pattern! I don’t believe in conspiracies but talk about bad timing.
Once the common sense economics of inflating asset prices hiding stagnate wages, incomes being the only thing that should determine housing prices, all the problems caused by preventing home prices from falling…
…CNBC must be getting angry phone calls they said it was thunderstorms…. OOOOOOOOOOOOK so rerun the debate on letting housing prices fall.
I need to write down the name of the CATO talking head.
No need for a conspiracy theory, just remember who the audience is:
When in 1969 the US landed the first person on the moon, Americans went hysterical in complaints to the broadcasting network, seems that the live feed interrupted the weekly prime-time TV showing of Batman,… for many years it was a media record.
I watched the moon walk with my great Uncle in Kansas, who kept uttering repeatedly, “They made this in Hollywood. Men cannot walk on the moon.”
I called CNBC and they said they are going to put the video online, should be up tomorrow. Click on my name to connect to the Street Signs URL and watch the housing price video tomorrow or possibly later today. CATO is on the ball!
A lot of posters here hate CATO. They don’t know anything about CATO, but they hate it because they heard it’s pure Republican (it is not).
The Cato Institute is libertarian. And it has a way of infuriating Republicans and Democrats.
here is the direct link to the video click on my name or for those who want to see the link before click on it: http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1529576219&play=1
may take awhile for it to get through the filter
“And it has a way of infuriating Republicans and Democrats.”
My kind of think tank!
“My kind of think tank!”
Took the words right out of my mouth!
We all know that the $8,000 handout for “first time home buyers” has a 50% fraud rate (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126010317&ft=1&f=1003)
Today CBS news reported that over a thousand of these handouts were paid to people who are incarcerated!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/23/national/main6610942.shtml
Polly - can you e-mail me at sd.re.b at hotmail dot com?
Thanks!
I mistakenly posted the following in the Maryland thread - so let’s try again.
I haven’t posted for a long time but still keep up with the HBB. We live in NW Bexar County (San Antonio Metro) in a nice area that went crazy in 2005. One house on our street built in 2008 is in foreclosure and inhabited by several extended family members of the builder.
Across the street, a builder wannabe, borrowing $325K, erected a hideous McMansion in 2005 - it never sold so he and his wife moved in around 2007. They previously lived in a house appraised by BCAD for $90K.
He managed an apt. complex for a year or so but lost that job a couple of months ago. He spends his days holed up in the house with occasional forays of drunkenly navigating down the driveway to his mailbox wearing only boxer shorts (not a pretty sight for a man that age and physique). I would feel pity except I remember my anger back in 2005 watching beautiful mature trees hauled off, listening to incessant jackhammering, and knowing that the place was not going to sell. All so unnecessary. I remember posting indignantly about the situation back in 2006, 2007. So that’s where it is now. I see a another foreclosure in the works.
Anyway, a question. Does the IRS still forgive deficiency judgments/shortfalls? It seems that it was “forgiving” there for a while.
“Does the IRS still forgive deficiency judgments/shortfalls?”
On the Federal level, yes (at least through the end of this year). States have their own rules, but not too many are forgiving (yet), though many have talked about it.
Buy now, or face higher interest rates forever!
* MARKETS
* JUNE 24, 2010, 1:11 P.M. ET
The Wall Street Journal
Mortgage Rates Fall to Record Lows
By NATHAN BECKER
Mortgage rates fell slightly the past week, with three of the four rates Freddie Mac tracks—including the 30-year fixed-rate—falling to record lows, according to Freddie’s weekly survey of mortgage rates.
The rates on all but one-year adjustable-rate mortgages hit the lowest point since Freddie began tracking them—1971 for the 30-year loans, 1991 for 15-year fixed and 2005 for 5-year adjustables. The one-year set yet another 6-year low in the latest week.
The declines come amid a continued rally in the Treasurys market, which pushes the debt’s yields down. Mortgage rates generally track yields.
The 30-year fixed-rate mortgage averaged 4.69% for the week ended Thursday, down from the prior week’s 4.75% average and 5.42% a year ago. Rates on 15-year fixed dropped to 4.13% from 4.2% and 4.87%, respectively.
Five-year Treasury-indexed hybrid adjustable-rate mortgages averaged 3.84%, lower than the week earlier’s 3.89% and 4.99% a year ago. One-year Treasury-indexed ARMs were 3.77%, down from 3.82% and 4.93%, respectively.
To obtain the rates, the 15-year fixed-rate mortgages required payment of an average 0.6 point and the others required an average 0.7 point. A point is 1% of the mortgage amount, charged as prepaid interest.
…
Update on the Tucson mortgage guy’s murder: Suspect (who got away on a bicycle) is still at large.
I think he and the bicycle have been out of town for quite some time. He probably pedaled away from the murder scene, then shipped himself and the bike to some other location. Since we’re so close to the Mexican border, it’s possible that he left the country.
But, hey, what do I know. I’m just a bubble-blogger with an imagination.
Chick-fil-A dipping sauce, yum-yum,…oh, attending a christian business meeting…odd time & place to gun someone down.
Here’s some backgrounder on the real estate scheme. Methinks the perp was some R2O renter who paid above-market rent in hopes of owning. And then he wasn’t able to own. Very few of them were.
Wow, that took some kinda of thought…rip off x3 sources of fraud victims with a SINGLE TRANSACTION. Really ought to make each act a felony, that’ll get’em to x3 strikes right quickly.
“Silverstein and other co-defendants then solicited rent-to-own buyers to enter into purchase agreements for homes for which they could not qualify. Eventually, investors no longer received rental amounts sufficient to cover the amount of the investors’ increasing mortgage payments. Consequently, many of these homes were foreclosed, causing harm to the investors,lenders and rent-to-own home buyers. Defendants profited from this scheme by collecting fees and commissions.”
And that would make him different from the banks, how?
www dot guardian dot co dot uk/world/2010/jun/24/greece-islands-sale-save-economy?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&ts2=1
Greece is selling and long term leasing some of its islands.
This is all part of the plan
States will be weekend
The elite will own all natural resources and land.
The US gov has been selling national park land over the last decade as well. I believe Arizona did a sale lease back option on major gov buildings. Expect to see more toll roads as highways and parking meters are sold off.
Again I ask you
Why is it that a Chavez get’s elected?
This is it. Privatize and concentrate the gains socialize the monetary and environmental losses.
When enough people feel that they don’t have any say in the system, and any control over their economic well being you start to see Chavez types get elected riots
Typical for this attention starved clown, I guarantee Barry hasn’t read the nearly 2,000 page document, hasn’t a clue what’s in it.
Obama Claims Victory in Financial Overhaul Deal- AP
President Barack Obama declared victory Friday after congressional negotiators reached a dawn agreement on a sweeping overhaul of rules overseeing Wall Street.