So Many People With So Many Losses
It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “Eleven condo buyers at Vancouver’s controversial Olympic Village want to back out of their pre-sale deals. The buyers put down deposits of between $60,000 and $300,000 for False Creek condos priced from a low of $550,000 to units that sold in the millions of dollars. They’re being asked to close their deals by the end of the month. The unhappy buyers say washers and dryers haven’t been installed in their units, and the $5,000 electric fireplaces aren’t working properly. Lawyer Bryan Baynham said his clients don’t want to move into the suites any more — and they want their deposits back. ‘Once you lose faith in a project, people say ‘I just don’t want to be there’,’ Baynham told The Province. ‘It’s a whole series of things. Nothing seems to go right with this project.’”
“Only one lot has sold in a controversial Winona subdivision, two years after the parcels went on sale. Thirteen of 14 lots remain empty in the first phase of Cobblestone Creek, a development in Pleasant Valley. The first phase of lots went on the market in the fall of 2008 — just as it was plunging, developer Jason Phillips said. ‘It’s been a bit of a long haul,’ he said. ‘Either the market turns around or the the world completely ends, so it’s got to turn around.’”
“Scott Katzer owes about $200,000 more than his Fort Lauderdale home is worth. Unable to sell anytime soon, he wants to reduce his monthly mortgage payment by refinancing to a lower interest rate. Katzer doesn’t qualify under a government refinancing program because the value of his home is so much lower than what he owes. Private lenders turn him down for the same reason. Katzer bought his home for $460,000 in 2006, but he estimates it’s now worth in the $250,000 range.”
“The Mortgage Intervention Strategy could help neighborhoods like Dave Rakszawski’s near Lantana, Fla. At least two houses on his block alone have fallen into foreclosure in recent months. He’d like to see owners get the aid they need so the community of split-level homes can recover. But he questions whether borrowers qualifying for the state mortgage payments will be motivated to find jobs that allow them to leave the program after 18 months.”
“‘Is that person going to benefit by it, or a year and a half from now are they going to say, ‘I still can’t afford it anyway’?’ he asked. ‘Even if they’re given more time, some people really will have no intention of making it work. It’ll just be a free place to live for 18 months.’”
“President Barack Obama says that no matter how much the government spends, some people still won’t be able to afford their mortgages and will lose their homes. There are still underlying problems in the housing market, the president said, in part because ’some people just got too much house for their salary.’”
“Congress, at the eleventh hour, passes an extension of the closing date on the home buyer tax credit. It was supposed to expire at midnight last night. The powerful troika of Realtors, builders and mortgage bankers pushed full speed ahead, rallying the troops. I can’t tell you how many calls we got here in the CNBC DC bureau from Realtors claiming there would be ‘rioting in the streets’ (I’m not kidding, and that was a Connecticut Realtor…), and PR reps for industry types offering endless ‘experts’ to discuss the ‘vital’ need for the extension. You can imagine what was going on a block up from my office on Capitol Hill.”
“‘Certainly we have been talking to more people in the past number of years than ever before,’ admits NAR’s chief economist Lawrence Yun. ‘We are fortunate in terms of members of Congress willing to listen to our members.’ ‘We have worked for over a year on a model [for Fannie and Freddie] that we introduced late last year, and its gotten really a very good reception,’ says the Mortgage Bankers Association’s CEO John Courson. ‘We have been with the administration, we have been to the hill, other trade associations, consumer groups, in fact, I must say not to be too immodest, but there have been a number of plans that have come out since then, that look very similar to ours.’”
“U.S. Rep. James P. McGovern, D-Worcester, said minutes after he voted for the stand-alone bill yesterday that extending the tax credit deadline for those who were in a contract by the end of April will help stabilize a long-suffering estate market. ‘We have a soft real estate market. Extending it can boost sales of homes, and it makes it more affordable,’ he said.”
“Barry Bluestone, dean of Northeastern University’s Dukakis Center for Urban and Regional Policy, said the tax credits helped stabilize the slumping housing market and brought some buyers into the market who would otherwise not have participated. ‘I’ve been arguing that we need something to prop up the housing market that’s not expensive for the government,’ he said.”
“‘Extending the deadline would be beneficial to those homebuyers caught up in the long short-sale process, but it’s not going to sell more homes,’ said Nick Krautter, principal broker with the Keller Williams Realty office in central Portland.”
“Krautter believes extending the deadline has more to do with the upcoming midterm elections than anything else. ‘It seems more like electioneering than a solution to fixing the housing market.’”
“Nearly 27 percent of all Manatee homes sold during the first quarter were foreclosures, RealtyTrac said in a quarterly report. In Sarasota County, foreclosures accounted for 36 percent of all first-quarter 2010 sales. The Florida average was 38.7 percent, the sixth-highest rate nationally. The U.S. rate was 31 percent, led by three states — Arizona, California and Nevada — where foreclosures were more than half of all sales.”
“Kathy Marlowe, whose Kathy Marlowe & Associates Realty in Sarasota specializes in foreclosures, said foreclosure prices are falling partly because of the properties’ deteriorated conditions. ‘Some of these homes have been sitting for one, two, or three years vacant and no one is taking care of them,’ she said.”
“For years, the 8,000-square-foot mansion in suburban Seattle sat vacant and for sale, the price gradually coming down from $5.8 million to $3.3 million. One day in June, a 30-year-old woman, a man and two children took down the for-sale signs, changed the locks, moved in and declared it their home. They didn’t actually buy the house, or even rent it. They just moved in and declared it their house.”
“Jill Lane, who was arrested on a charge of trespassing after two weeks in the house, is not contrite, The Seattle Times’ Danny Westneat reports. Not only did she try to take over the mansion, with its wine cellar, home theater, six bedrooms and nine baths, she has staked a claim to 10 other bank-owned houses in the Seattle area.”
“‘Banks do whatever they want and nobody holds them accountable,’ Lane told Westneat by phone from Disneyland, where she went on vacation after she was released by the police. ‘It makes me ill to see what the banks are doing. They aren’t using their bailout money to help anyone. So I’m standing up for the people who are being brutalized by banks every day.’”
“While Dallas-Fort Worth foreclosure filing volumes have declined in recent months from 2009 levels, they are still at near-record highs. More distressed properties could still come onto the market and lower values. ‘The market may be able to sustain reasonably well without credit – we’ll have to wait and see on that one,’ said economist James Gaines of the Real Estate Center at Texas A&M University. ‘Market inventory is in reasonably good shape, but we don’t have any data on hidden or shadow inventory in the market.’”
“Redlands-based economist John Husing said there are plenty of positive indicators suggesting the Inland economy is starting to pull itself out of a freefall that led to one of the worst unemployment rates in the nation. The problem is, all the good news comes with a ‘but’, he said during an event organized by the Temecula Valley Chamber of Commerce. One ‘but’ concerns the housing market. While the number of default notices issued to homeowners behind on their mortgages is declining, a ’shadow inventory’ of potential foreclosures is blunting the recovery, Husing said.”
“More than two of every three Merced County homes sold this year have been either bank owned or ’short sales’ to avoid foreclosure, just-released statistics show. e numbers, and at substantial discounts,” said James Saccacio, RealtyTrac’s CEO, said lenders this year have been repossessing record levels of American homes. ‘It will be interesting to watch how they will manage the inventory levels of distressed properties on the market in order to prevent more dramatic price deterioration,’ Saccacio said.”
“New and completed foreclosures in Chesterfield County are at high points, yet real-estate and mortgage professionals remain optimistic that a turnaround is coming soon, but not in the immediate future. A Chesterfield official who logs completed foreclosures into the county books reports numbers are mirroring figures not seen since the early 1980s. ‘“It’s going to get worse before it gets better,’ said Mary Virginia Harris, owner of Harris Realty in Chester.”
“Harris and Jerry Mabry, president of Village Bank Mortgage Co., both point to the loss of jobs by homeowners as a leading cause of foreclosures. Mabry noted that was not the case three years ago, when a faltering economy hit the housing industry quite hard. Back then, he said, people were buying houses for which they were not financially qualified.”
“‘They were using so many exotic types of loans,’ Mabry said, citing stated-asset loans as an example. With a stated-asset loan, the lender asks the customer how much money he or she has saved, then makes the loan based on that amount. ‘Back then, just about anyone could get a loan,’ Mabry said.”
“A real estate investment trust, last week purchased Annapolis Roads, a 282-unit apartment complex off Edgewood Road. Economist Anirban Basu of Sage Policy Group Inc. in Baltimore said deals like these may foreshadow an emerging trend. ‘Many are being forced to sell their assets because of short-term financial considerations. They really don’t want to sell at low prices,’ Basu said. ‘But in a situation where there is no buyer, that project would lose its value even more quickly and the losses from financiers would be even greater.’”
“At The Landing at Spa Creek, Lexin Capital will take over where Triton Real Estate Partners left off, converting the apartments to condominiums. In 2005, Triton bought the property for $36 million. The developer, however, ran out of money before the conversion of all the units to condos could be completed. Triton filed for bankruptcy in February 2007. Fidelity Real Estate Growth Fund, the primary lender, foreclosed a few months later.”
“More recently AmTrust Bank, another creditor, acquired the property, but last December the Office of Thrift Supervision closed the bank. ‘It’s so sad, really,’ Metin Negrin, president of Lexin Capital said of the property’s past. ‘So many people with so many losses.’”
“Jeremy Grantham pricked, if not the housing bubble itself, then at least the bubble that property market spruikers live in, with the quip that: ‘Bubbles have quite a few things in common but housing bubbles have a spectacular thing in common, and that is every one of them is considered unique and different.’”
“How true that is. Before Japan’s bubble burst in 1990, we heard that Japan was different: the ‘Rising Sun’ was eclipsing the USA and house prices reflected this growing wealth (and—didn’t you know? —there was a land shortage in Tokyo!). Before the USA’s bubble burst, there were land shortages in all the States with price bubbles—especially California. There were probably even Tulip shortages in Amsterdam, four centuries ago.”
“Those other bubbles duly burst, despite their ‘unique’ characteristics, under the weight of the same force: too much debt was taken on by speculators seduced by the groupthink that house prices always rise. When the rise in house prices made the entry costs for new players prohibitive, debt stopped growing and house prices collapsed.”
“Any doubt that borrowed money is what has driven house prices into the stratosphere in Australia is dispelled by the data: despite all the hooey about Australian lenders being more responsible than those in the USA, mortgage debt in Australia rose three times faster since 1990. Having started with a mortgage debt to GDP ratio that was just 40 per cent of America’s, we now have a higher ratio than the USA — and ours is still increasing while theirs is clearly falling.”
“Notice however that our ratio was lower than the USA’s—and was falling too—before the government brought in the First Home Vendors Boost. As it has always done, that government intervention in the market set off a price bubble—the government in this sense is as responsible for the house price bubble as the banks are.”
“The boost caused the number of buyers to explode last year, and now the number is fizzing. Actual demand (and that’s people with cash in their hands to buy now, not the hypothetical future demand concepts touted by the property spruikers) is therefore falling below actual supply. As the stock of unsold houses mounts up, it is only a matter of time before the bubble bursts.”
Give it UP for Jill Lane! Yoo-hoo! You go gurl.
And then to top it off she concludes by going to Disneyland. Too bad she’s already married. Jill, I’ll write you in prison!
XOXOXO
Well somebody DID catch her. But some houses have been abandoned more completely. What are the chances that somebody could simply move into a bando and then take adverse posession?
So I’m standing up for the people who are being brutalized by banks every day…by going to Disneyland!
Sounds more like she is just a parasite that wants and excuse for being a deadbeat. I’d like to live in a mansion, too, but then, I don’t feel that someone should “give me” one.
I was astounded by the hyperbole, though. “Brutalized”??
Really? Has the bank sent out a goon squad to batter the woman?
Perhaps they should.
I would approve.
No offense guys, but I think you’re all missing the point?
Any woman brazen enough to pull a stunt like ‘that’ off.., well let’s just say ( can you -imagine- what she must be like in bed!? )
Sorry! ( Casual Friday, please to excuse )
She’d probably be inclined to try out her neighbor’s bed as well. And any other bed she could tumble into.
Thanks, but no. I don’t fancy repeated trips for Q-Tipping, if you catch my drift.
Thanks, but no. I don’t fancy repeated trips for Q-Tipping, if you catch my drift.
Drift gotten. A former boss once regaled me with the story of his Q-Tipping. Made me very glad that I’m not a guy.
“repeated trips for Q-Tipping” LOL!
Yeah, probably right. Watched “Extract” ( Mike Judge, Beavis & Butt-head etc. ) and thought it hysterical. Every character was cutting whatever corners they felt were nec. to get ahead in life. Consequences be damned. If you haven’t seen it, laughs from start to finish.
Is that related to cow-tipping?
Is that related to cow-tipping?
No, it’s related to STD testing. Not terribly fun for either gender, but especially not for the fellas.
I often wonder if the people who squat in McMansions can actually afford the gas and electricity bill? I’m assuming they do turn on the power?
potential buyer,
Precisely Sir. Now let’s delve into what the property TAXES and upkeep must be on a love palace like that? What, 10 grand a month? Hello.
I’ve had some fun w/ this at Jill’s expense but given her actions shouldn’t she have been born with a name like… Star or Peace or something? 70’s are over babe.
I wonder whether she’s related to Jack la Lane.
It’s almost impossible to get utilities turned on without proof of legal residence. You can get by with a propane BBQ for cooking and a gasoline generator for minimal power, and perhaps burn wood in a real fireplace. Water should be the real problem - hard to live without running water.
I remember living in San Jose after the 1989 earthquake. Our neighborhood - with all electric kitchens - was without power for a couple of days. I had a long line of mothers at my house using my propane BBQ to heat up baby bottles along with other cooking chores. My camping ice chests preserved all the expensive items in my freezer/refer.
Related to Jack la Lane? I think his mother’s maiden name was Dumbbell.
Jill’s maiden name was Dumbbell. Dumbbell isn’t a common name so there must be a connection.
I don’t think she’s a parasite. She’s got two kids, so if her hubby isn’t paying the bills, then he’s the parasite here. Would you approve of a good man-beating in this case, or only a good girl-beating? In front of the kids too?
She’s just a squatter dude, there are tons of them by now.
I’d say more an opportunist than anything? There were tons of them on the upswing of this thing too. Didn’t much care for them either.
It’s just that her/his/their -response- to all this seemed so well rehearsed. Nothing we haven’t predicted here a thousand times. She’s gutsy, I’ll hand her that.
But it was just a week or so a FL poster ( w/ a LL in CT IIRC ) was pondering same. In case he’s reading ( ‘this’ is where it ended up )
We’re still here, difference is we didn’t move in after it was empty and for sale, we just haven’t moved out yet.
Jill went from one fantasyland in King County, Washington to another fantasyland in Orange County, California.
I’m still waiting for Paul and Jan Crouch’s mansion in Newport Beach to be foreclosed. Talk about FANTASYLAND!!! I’m moving in just as soon it’s vacant.
For years, the 8,000-square-foot mansion in suburban Seattle sat vacant and for sale, the price gradually coming down from $5.8 million to $3.3 million. One day in June, a 30-year-old woman, a man and two children took down the for-sale signs, changed the locks, moved in and declared it their home. They didn’t actually buy the house, or even rent it. They just moved in and declared it their house.
somebody was watching, called the cops and they were thrown out but what if instead they moved in to a $0.3 million house? Nobody’s watching, the mortgage documents sit in a drawer somewhere maybe. Betcha it’s happening.
The point is housing-in-dispute has a limited shelf life. I’m thinking a year maybe two where the borrower just mails in the keys and doesn’t do any damage. I suppose somewhere a well dressed man, representing the interests of the lending institution sits down at a computer screen to check on Real Estate Owned. He sighs and goes out for a coffee.
From the original post:
“Kathy Marlowe, whose Kathy Marlowe & Associates Realty in Sarasota specializes in foreclosures, said foreclosure prices are falling partly because of the properties’ deteriorated conditions. ‘Some of these homes have been sitting for one, two, or three years vacant and no one is taking care of them,’ she said.”
To which we’ve all been saying:
Yup, if a house just sits there with no one taking care of it, well, by golly, it will deteriorate. Something about entropy. (Remember than from physics class?)
For a good case in point, look at Ben’s recent Housing Bubble Blog Tour photos.
Oh, one more thing: $5k for a fireplace? Yipes!
More to the point: $5K for an ELECTRIC fireplace. A real fireplace should burn wood or maybe natural gas and provide heat at a rate cheaper than electricity, and should require proper external venting.
Ah, the hub is putting one in right now - a new gas fireplace. Cost about $2000 I think. And it doesn’t even need electricity to start up, unlike the stupid pellet stove we got 5 years ago for the basement and don’t use anymore.
My gas furnace requires electricity to operate. I’ve considered a pellet stove as a backup for when the power goes out, but quickly realized that they too require electricity to operate. Too bad - someone needs to design a pellet stove that can run on a wind-up spring without need for electricity.
DennisN,
Our “Jamestown” had a battery back-up, but only had like a 12 hr. cycle. People, a kerosene htr. in those instances is the way to go! Boils water too.
I have one. Light it with the BBQ lighter, sit back and enjoy. Its great! But must remember to dust it before winter sets in…………..lol
My place here in Boise has a gas fireplace with pilot light. All you have to do is flip a switch and voila!
Oh… I’ll exercise my option to categorize this in the same ‘buyer’s remorse’ from SDGreg’s La Jolla link from yesterday. How damned hard could it be to have a washer and dryer hooked up?
Or should they have put those in ‘first’ while the sheetrock was still going up? ‘Any’ excuse is a ‘good’ excuse when yer’ underwater.
The flabbergasting thing about all these FBs is that here they are - they’ve borrowed up to a million dollars - and then worry about a missing washer/dryer combo that costs what, maybe $1500 tops?
Egad. The lunacy of it all….
No kidding $5K for a fireplace? What the heck does it do for that sort of money? I just recently bought a not bad condition minivan, an entire automobile, for $1,500. No air conditioning but it starts like a champ. FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS for an overgrown electric heater? WTF??
Thanks for posting, Slim. On photo #38, the “G” and the “O” are missing from the metal “Wellington” sign. What do you want to bet that some gangbanger punk took ‘em for “O.G.” or “Original Gangsta”?
‘Either the market turns around or the the world completely ends, so it’s got to turn around.’
This guy posits a false dichotomy then makes an axiom of his conclusion. Talk about an odd sense of logic.
By the way, this article brings up a topic that annoys me in a national blog like this one. This is small towns whose newspaper doesn’t mention - or buries - the state they are in. “Winona” sounded to me like a small town in AZ or TX. Turns out it’s in MN.
Dennis–That’s one of my pet peeves as well that so many online newspapers don’t mention the state or sometimes even the city they’re in.
The Winona article mentioned a Pleasant Valley. I’m sure there are hundreds of Pleasant Valleys across the country.
In Boise, the ironically-named Pleasant Valley Road extends south of the airport to the state prison.
and California has a prison named Pleasant Valley State Prison. It’s located near Coalinga, Ca. Long before the prison was built I spent a summer earning money for college in Coalinga. The highschool kids decorated the oil pumper thingies just outside of town - giant grasshoppers, pink poodles, whatever, bobbing up and down pumping oil.
His world has ended. It was a world of easy-finance-multiple-house-flipping-endless-commissions-and-high-end-purchases-with-virtually-no-effort-in-an-endless-stream-of-easy-money.
That’s his world. He doesn’t understand working for a living or not getting a big pile of money by trading houses.
Here’s a clue: The house flipping game is over. Get a real job, if you can.
Yah, when I read that classy line, I laughed.
His currently defined perception of the world might end, or the housing industry will recover. I’m betting on the former.
This guy doesn’t realize just how out of touch with Reality he really is.
In a way, i do sympathize with the guy. After all, the Banksters on Wallstreet got to game the system and turn massive profits by selling fraudulent securities. When their game was coming to an end, our Secretary of the Treasury and Federal Reserve (not ours, a private cartel) got together and kept their game going, passing their losses on to us, the taxpayers of the US of A.
So, i can see, it would be only fair for people playing the same game of financial shenanigans should expect their government to come to their rescue. It’s only fair, after all.
Haven’t heard much from the Goldman Suchs boys and the rest of the crooks lately. Where’s the investigations into the frauds>??
The investigators are going after the small fry, while the big ones get away. Supposedly not enough evidence to indict the big ones.
Didn’t it just get harder with the RATS (Roberts, Alito, Thomas, Scalia) on the Supreme Court making it harder to prosecute fraud and letting some big crooks of the hook (Skilling of Enron, e.g.)?
“Either every commentator on this blog sends me $1,000 today, or the world will end.”
I love it.
Waitaminute - these people put $60k+ down on a condo, and want to back out over a few hundred bucks worth of laundry machines? Something tells me they don’t feel the Olympic Village is quite the *investment* they originally thought it would be, and are looking for anything to get away.
I think Canadians are just starting to realize what is in store for them. “But it’s different here (but what if it’s not), but I want my free money (but what if prices crash), but, but, but…” The smart ones will get out now, the rest of them will be living in igloos in a few short years.
Nex up, Australia and China.
I think Canadians are just starting to realize what is in store for them.
I’m a Canadian. Right now most Canadian don’t realize what’s in store.
My sisters and I sold the house in T.O. (Toronto) in March. Thank God.
As long as Molson is in store, everything’s good, eh?
(Sorry, I couldn’t resist).
Good for you 45.
President Barack Obama says that no matter how much the government spends, some people still won’t be able to afford their mortgages and will lose their homes. There are still underlying problems in the housing market, the president said, in part because “some people just got too much house for their salary.”
Just wanted to repeat that.
Not so much “too much house”, but too little house for someone else’s money!
I am surprised to hear something sensible come out of that man’s mouth with regard to the housing collapse.
sfbb,
I… dunno’, had it been McCain would he have said the day after being sworn in, “Half of you’s is just plain fooked!”?
This is the language of a controlled crash. When a pilot has to ditch it, no matter how low he believes their percentages of survivability, you still place your tray in the upright and locked position.
I’m not saying McCain would have been any better. In fact, he PROBABLY would have been worse. I’m just saying I’m surprised Obama would even hint at any homeowner not being victims, much less come out and flat out say an entire subsection of them have no business owning those houses and have no business getting a bailout.
I’m GLAD he finally said it. I’m just surprised those words came out of that mouth.
Yeah, I’ll admit to being kind of down on the O-man.
But, like sfbubblebuyer, I’m GLAD he finally said it. Perhaps he’s finally having a rendezvous with housing market reality.
sfbb/Slim,
Right ( it’s the first step toward recovery ) No I’m serious. We can fret things privately to ourselves for an eternity, but sometimes, just saying them OUT LOUD is a huge… relief!
When you arrive at the scene of a car accident you don’t blurt out, “Dude you’re spurting blood -everywhere-, I don’t think you’re gonna’ make it!”
He could have made that public a little ‘earlier’ IMO. Read the blogs… don’t fear… them!
OK. The next step in this coming of age is for him to say: Banks lent out money that could never be repaid. It just cannot be repaid.
Next next step:
“The government encouraged banks to lend sums of money which enabled households to buy homes they could not afford.”
Two Fridays ago I drove up to the Sawtooths to go hiking. I got skunked: with all the recent rains here the trails were all too marshy to hike. It took me over an hour to cover 1/2 mile since the trail was covered on average with 6″ of water. So I took to long road back to Boise via Sun Valley.
Lots of RE for sale signs lining hwy 75 through Sun Valley/Ketchum. More than I’ve ever seen before, and generally on large mansion-estates on good size pieces of land. Driving south from the northern parts of town to downtown Ketchum, I’d guess that one of every three places had a for sale sign out front along the highway. That’s just an incredible number.
DennisN,
Why don’t they just list the homes *not* For Sale?
Sorry to hear you guys are slogging your way thru Spring ( wait, it’s almost the 4th! ) just as we are here. Wore short sleeves for “casual Friday” and had to turn back for a jacket and hat. Barely 50 and drizzling here.
I’ve done that drive many times over the last 12 years, but it’s been awhile. Might be time for a road trip! I still maintain I had the best sushi in Ketchum. It was fresh and all I could eat for an hour for $20. I ate all I could in 20 minutes. And I still wonder what isotopes I caught while going through INEL. Amazing that 1/3 are for sale. And let me guess, they’re still 30-50% overpriced?
There’s probably more radiation risk in the Tri-cities area of WA than near the ID national labs.
The Experimental Breeder Reactor No. I (1951 - 1963) is now displayed outside in a parking lot for visitors. You can walk right up to it. I guess that means it must be safe: the government says so.
https://inlportal.inl.gov/portal/server.pt/community/community_outreach/265/ebr-1_tours
OMG, look at that website. Needs a redesign.
BTW, Slim’s in the process of becoming a federal contractor. Seems that the feds need a bit of help on the Web front, if this site is any indication.
I’m going to attempt to hike to the summit of Borah later this summer, and plan to altitude-acclimatize in Ketchum beforehand. It will be my first time in Idaho. I will post a Floridian’s perspective when I get home.
Buy or borrow Tom Lopez’s book Idaho: A Climbing Guide. It’s the classic guide to mountaineering in Idaho.
Ketchum is at 2,840 feet, even lower than Boise. Borah peak is at 12,662 feet, so hanging around Ketchum won’t help you much. Maybe a day or two camping at McKay (5,900 feet) or Arco (5,325 feet) might be more helpful.
Lopez says this of the SW ridge (standard easiest ascent): “The route climbs more than 5,400 feet in less than 4.5 miles….”
I’m a hiker/climber myself, but that’s one hell of a steep climb! Hmmm…I like me some challenges.
I started hitting the stair machine after reading an internet trip report that compared the ascent to the ridgeline to three straight hours on the stairmaster. I’ve done some arduous day hikes in the mountains before, but this one, while not the longest, will be one of the steepest.
I do plan to spend the night before in Mackay, which is closer to the trailhead.
See correction on Ketchum’s elevation below.
Link http://www.idahoaclimbingguide.com/
Since you have never been to Idaho before, I suggest this DVD as the best available overview of the state.
http://www.amazon.com/Idaho-Aerial-Tapestry-PBS-None/dp/B002IGHX3G
It was compiled by the local PBS affiliate.
How low can prices go?
Using the S&P/Case-Shiller index as his guide, Suttmeier suggests homes across the country could lose half their value. “If it gets back, like stocks, back to the 1999-2000 levels, that’s another 50% down in home prices,” he says. ”
sounds good to me
I was kinda hoping for 96-97, but I wouldn’t toss 99-00 outta bed!
in phoenix they are at 1996 prices!
Steve Moyer is saying home values to decline to 1974-1982 levels.
I’ve yet to post a link, you can check it out at Safehaven dot com.
I suddenly feel the urge to drive a Pinto.
“We have a soft real estate market. Extending it can boost sales of homes, and it makes it more affordable.”
“I’ve been arguing that we need something to prop up the housing market that’s not expensive for the government.”
Ben, did you use a filter that looked for “stupidest Massachusetts housing quotes”?
Developer Jason Phillips said, ‘It’s been a bit of a long haul, either the market turns around or the the world completely ends, so it’s got to turn around.’
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
The cozy little green-bux-crappin-unicorn fastasy world this guy used to live in, is now smashed to smithereens.
Major upside-downness, misery and most likely bankruptcy, coming up quick for Developer Philips. Welcome to the brave new world of “housing reverts to the mean, then overshoots”, sport!
“There are still underlying problems in the housing market, the president said, in part because “some people just got too much house for their salary.”
Obama made his comments in response to a question Wednesday at a town hall event.
He said that Wall Street overhaul legislation pending in Congress would help with regulations to ensure that people don’t get “tricked” into buying homes they can’t afford.”
HMMM….When people make foolish decisions, or commit mortgage fraud they’ve been “tricked”.
This is a dangerous line of reasoning to go down. If Americans aren’t smart enough to make these decisions, then how much freedom should the average American be allowed?
(The right way to fix this would be to mandate 20% downpayments for government subsidized loans, but we seem to be going in the opposite direction.)
Of course they’ve been tricked! And they need the government’s help to ensure they aren’t “tricked” again.
As our Beltway pals know plenty about tricks, perhaps we should listen to what they advise, then do the exact opposite.
we at this blog have always said prices will come back to pre-bubble levels,here looking to 1990 prices again soon……………………i love peoples reaction when i say this,they roll thire eyes just like they did when i said we are in a bubble..
maybe if the cost to build could come close to that, but i doubt it except in extreme cases where the house is tear down or has serious problems. house prices in many areas are way below the cost to build them, i see new home building come to almost a complete halt. then we will be under building for a growing population. I never buy at the top, but also never expect it to fall to my dream price on the downside either. prices here in phoenix are at 1996 prices although it will not be a remodelled house. many in decent areas for 70-90k but not scottsdale of course , some with little work needed. others need extensive work. I bought my first house for 82k and put about 20k into it for a complete remodel with me doing most of the work. my cost now is 300/month for all my living costs and have 4x the space compared to my studio apartments. so, i could have waited and looked for a better deal, but i liked the style of this house and paid cash. i have been waiting to see what happens now that the credit expired and sales are dropping as i expected. prices went up 20k due to the credit over the year since i bought. so, they should fall back to what i paid and hopefully more! i’ll buy an investment house when i find the right deal close to where i am now….and it will be cash too! NO BANK LOAN FOR ME!
“Certainly we have been talking to more people in the past number of years than ever before,” admits NAR’s chief economist Lawrence Yun. “We are fortunate in terms of members of Congress willing to listen to our members.”
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When are members of Congress going to listen to people who don’t favor the distortion of housing prices? I guess we’re unfortunate that way.
When you show up with a suitcase of cash, your congressman will listen.
I wonder if Jill and her family had a nice profile article, with pictures of the mansion’s rooms, in the Sunday homes section.
My paper has a big spread every Sunday usually profiling couples, often times childess couples, and their 11,000-square-foot house which took three-years to build.
Or it’s about their mountain second- home with only 6,000-square feet.
I get so tired of reading these ostentatious articles. It really sickens my stomach when these affluent folks have the gaul to show off their priceless trinkets and wealth when so many people are homeless and hurting financially.
The articles sometimes mention their working and recreational lifestyle routines down to the exact hour they leave the big city and return from their mountain cottage. Cottage? Sure! Six-thousand- square-feet. Why would anyone want to divulge that kind of information.
I trust these affluent folks relish and get some type of inner satisfaction from their perceived “A-list” status. I’m so jealous and envious. NOT!
Back in the bubble days these showy articles didn’t seem to attract so much attention. Some, but not as much as today. The homes’ section of the paper used to be 30 or so pages. Now, it’s barely in the double digits.
Hey DennisN - Sun Valley/Ketchum is at 6000 feet.
You’re right….my travel atlas has an error in it. Ketchum according to other sources is at 5,821 - 5,853 feet elevation.
“When you show up with a suitcase of cash, your congressman will listen.”
Not even then. It’s bigger than that now.