Built On A Basis Of A Dream
It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “The heart of Home Affordable Modification Program (HAMP) is that banks receiving $75 billion dollars in federal stimulus money through the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) are expected to use the money specifically to help homeowners modify their mortgages to an amount within their budgets, given their current situations. Homeowners who have tried the program are saying it doesn’t work, and at least two Northwest Georgia families are calling the program ‘a sham.’ Both said they are worse off now than before participating.”
“Dan and Lisa Capetto of Acworth thought the house was a good investment and would sell well when they were ready to ’scale back,’ as many people do after children leave home. The Capettos found out they were ‘unapproved’ for the HAMP in April. Mrs. Capetto said if they lose this house, they couldn’t buy another because their credit has plummeted under this program. ‘Had I known this was going to screw everything up, I never would have done this,’ Capetto said.”
“Paula Milton, who has a home in Canton, said she had a similar experience. She and her husband bought their home in 2006 as an investment. ‘We expected it would have a good bit of equity,’ she said. ‘It went the opposite way and we’re underwater $35,000.’”
“Her immediate solution to avoid foreclosure was to find a credit card and take out the cash needed to satisfy Wells Fargo. Mrs. Milton is left with a bad taste for the ‘change’ promised in Obama’s campaign. ‘We’re good people. There are people going bankrupt and getting out of all of it. There’s got to be something for us,’ she said.”
“Citing business and real estate debts, Former Jacksonville Jaguars quarterback Mark Brunell filed for protection under bankruptcy laws on June 25 in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Middle District of Florida. Brunell listed assets of $5.5 million and liabilities of $24.7 million. ‘Mark’s filing is an unfortunate sign of the times and just how broad a reach the current economic downturn and collapse in the real estate market have been,’ said his attorney, Michael Freed.”
“Nina LaFleur with the LaFleur Law Firm in St. Augustine: ‘I have many clients who own 20, 30 or even 50 rental houses. The rent is not sufficient to pay the mortgages, the banks will not renegotiate the loans and the properties are not selling. It is interesting to note that the rents never covered the mortgage payments. They never cash-flowed. A couple of years ago, folks would just pull the equity out of one house in order to pay for all the others. They were always counting on property values to continue rising. Now the properties are all under water and many renters are not paying. In many cases, the owners have not made a mortgage payment for over a year, but it is only now that the banks are initiating foreclosure proceedings. That is when they come to see me. Or they wait until they have depleted all their savings and retirement accounts, hoping that things will turn around.’”
“In Minnesota, 2010 bankruptcy filings through the end of May were up 11.6 percent from a year earlier, totaling 9,596 — the highest level in 10 years of recorded data. ‘The economy is finally starting to catch up with people,’ said Richard Pearson, a bankruptcy attorney in New Brighton. ‘This recession has hit the middle class more than any others I’ve seen.’”
“Many of his clients have been people earning $100,000 or more, often having worked as real estate agents, builders, remodelers and financiers during the height of the real estate boom. ‘Things will pop back,’ he said. ‘But a lot of people won’t be making what they made before.’”
“One week after an auction of waterfront condos at Pier Homes, prices for the remaining 22 units in the Baltimore luxury development have been reset, starting at $625,000. The new prices, like the units that sold last week, are well below the original asking prices of well over $1 million per unit, said Jon Gollinger, East Coast president of the Boston-based auctioneers that will handle sales at the complex.”
“Sales at the Pier Homes development had been nearly idle for a couple of years. Units were listed for up to $1.9 million, yet even the location on the city’s picturesque and colorful waterfront could not spark interest, as two-thirds of the complex had remained vacant. ‘The face of the new market is for the most part similar to who bought at the auction,’ Gollinger said. ‘The remaining units are not going to sell below the auction prices.’”
“Price cuts in Chicago’s condo market are nothing new, particularly downtown. Other buildings conducted auctions and then set new prices for the remaining units, based on the auctions. The size and scope of the decreases vary. The constant, though, is lenders’ efforts to jump-start stalled sales in new buildings. ‘Every development has a different circumstance, depending on if it has a lender that’s coming to reality,’ said @Properties agent George Schultz. ‘Every development is financed a different way. But the bottom line is the downward pressure on new construction has come to bear.’”
“A luxury condominium development, once heralded as a forerunner of an anticipated surge of dense residential projects in the commercial core of the Palos Verdes Peninsula, is now on the auction block. Originally priced from $930,000 to $1.7 million, the high-end units at Silver Spur Court are two- and three-bedroom flats and townhomes, ranging from 1,600 square feet to about 2,800 square feet. Starting bids now range from $275,000 to $495,000. A Rolling Hills Estates city official said buyers need to be forewarned about a $11,885 per-unit city parks fee that must be paid before escrow can close.”
“City Councilman Frank Zerunyan, a lawyer who works in real estate development, said he believes Silver Spur Court may have had a fatal flaw from the beginning. ‘I believe these folks built on a basis of a dream more so than on the basis of a marketplace,’ said Zerunyan, who stressed that he appreciated having a high-quality project in his city.”
“Developers of a Battle Mountain ski resort say they have dramatically downsized their proposal. Developers still plan a mix of condos, townhouses and single-family homes but they expect to build far fewer units than the original 1,700 homes proposed. Other changes include fewer ski lifts at the proposed private ski area. Whereas the plan once included more than half a million square feet of commercial space, developers now plan only about a third of that. There will be a coffee shop, ski shop and some ‘chili shacks,’ said Crave Real Estate Principal Dave Kleinkopf.”
“The pain of home foreclosure is spread throughout the region, from the poor communities wracked by unemployment to wealthier ones with empty homes in unfinished subdivisions, according to new data compiled by Southeast Michigan Council of Governments. ‘We deal with this every single day,’ said Frank Vaslo, the mayor of Lincoln Park, where an estimated one in 28 homes is in foreclosure.”
“Neighbors complain about abandoned pools and mosquitoes that spawn there, high weeds and the potential for crime at abandoned homes, Vaslo and others said. High foreclosure rates can be found in just about every corner of Oakland, Macomb and Wayne counties, including some of the most prosperous neighborhoods. ‘It’s happening everywhere,’ said Macomb County real estate manager Don Symons of Real Estate One. ‘It’s in every price range.’”
“Local realtors said one of the bigger challenges in West Islip is continued falling home prices, which is a larger issue for higher priced homes. For example, a home that three years ago was priced at $995,000 is now valued at $795,000. ‘This is an issue not just for the individual homeowner, but also serves to bring down prices of surrounding homes as the banks used comparable sales when doing appraisals,’ said Jamie Winkler, owner of Winkler Real Estate.”
“Also a major issue impacting home sales is sellers being unwilling to alter selling prices to meet current market conditions. Local realtors reported that when sellers received little or no interest in their home at a given price, they are holding steadfast on the price and spending several months attempting to sell their home. ‘Prices are still in a declining position, but many sellers refuse to accept market conditions,’ Winkler said. ‘There are some homes that have been on the market for a year or two. That should never happen.’”
“Along with its production of grass seed, hazelnuts and Christmas trees, Oregon is becoming a national leader of a different kind. The state’s foreclosure rate unexpectedly jumped 20 percent in the first quarter, making it No. 3 in the country. ‘It’s very discouraging,” said Tim Duy, a University of Oregon economics professor. ‘For all those people who said, ‘No, we don’t have a housing bubble,’ well, we did.’”
“Two former officers of failed Integrity Bank today pleaded guilty to fraud. Integrity opened in 2000 and mushroomed to $1 billion in assets thanks to lending in Georgia’s once white hot housing market. The bank trumpeted its Christian-based operating principles. It failed in August 2008. ‘Among the roots of our nation’s financial crisis were criminal acts by bank insiders and major borrowers that contributed to the failures or bailouts of financial institutions previously believed to be secure,’ said U.S. Attorney Sally Quillian Yates in a statement. ‘Today we announce that two of these corrupt insiders here in Atlanta will be trading in their corporate offices for federal prison.’”
“RE: Wildlife travel zone shrinks June 20 article. ‘I guess it has and always will be about the developer and how many homes they can squeeze into the land. With all the knowledge we have about the environment and how development affects everything we touch, you would think we would do the right thing. It’s all about money. Greed. No one is happy with what they have. It always has to be bigger and better.’”
“‘Nothing has been learned from the housing bubble. We are looking forward to building more and more, even when towns and subdivisions are void of people and business. Look at our politicians; they are the ones to blame, but we continue to re-elect them (like we have any choice). However, we need to look at ourselves. Do we learn from our mistakes?’ Kathleen J., New Port Richey”
About that last one…
‘Nothing has been learned from the housing bubble.’
Such frustration is understandable, but alas, this is so far from over. A populace is desperately looking for a quick and tidy closure so that they can “move on”. That’s what is going on right now, and has been for the past year and will probably go on for a while yet.
Mark brunell filing bankruptcy?Cmon here people.the guy makes millions throwing a football around and he’s 25 million in the hole?
People are really working this bankruptcy law.
I’m guessing that like so many other pro athletes he plowed his money into small businesses (restaurants, retail, real estate)that went belly up. Why these bozos don’t just save it in a mutual fund or buy bonds is beyond me. I guess they believed that they could roll their huge salaries into even bigger fortunes.
Here in Tucson, we’re dealing with the wreckage of the Fina Companies. This was a construction company started by former University of Arizona and Buffalo Bills star John Fina.
Being the gal-about-town that I am, I know more than a few people who’ve been in construction for a lot longer than Fina. Matter of fact, I can recall being in one general contractor-friend’s car as we drove past a slow-moving shopping center construction job being run by Fina. My friend’s take on that situation: “They don’t know what they’re doin’.”
Indeed they didn’t.
It’s better to invest in real estate than snort your money up your nose, as is all too common in sportspeople.
The only guy I knew that turned sports money into a real business is Roger Penske. IIUC Penske is now about the biggest truck leasing company in the country.
Arnold Palmer also appears to have invested wisely.
DennisN,
I understand John Elway has done fairly good as well. What do these few standouts have in common? ( They’re squares! )
I understand John Elway has done fairly good as well. What do these few standouts have in common? ( They’re squares! )
Speaking as a fellow Keystone Stater, I can attest to the fact that there are few people who are more square than Arnold Palmer.
Matter of fact, there are quite a few of us squares who hail from PA. We weren’t even hip when we were young — that’s how square we are.
I think Jack Nicklaus needs to be added to this list.
Both Jack and Arnold were managed by the
late Mark McCormack.
All very shrewd businessmen.
“We weren’t even hip when we were young”
And… it’s managed to serve me quite well up until very recently? The Hangover from the Housing Boom feels like the HS Junior that TOLD his friends -not- to go to ‘that’ party/dance/hookah blowout ( and winds up having to smooth things over all the same! )
It’s not just our sense of frugality that’s left us feeling like we’ve missed out on life? It’s a million things. Things H’ Boom Believers didn’t even bother to concern themselves with. Well “I” for one am sick and tired of it.
My former LL ( and failed local banker ) just walked past and since he’s been diagnosed w/ bone cancer has ( apparently ) been forced to cease his daily dose of HGH and MAN has he put on the weight! ( He was real ‘hip’ too ) I mean, if you’ve still got a full head of hair in your 70’s.., why not GO with it!
Your guess is almost exactly right in Brunell’s case. He did own restaurants and retail real estate leased to restaurants, as well as interests in many commercial and condo projects. His biggest mistake was signing personal guarantees on all of the debt of the companies set up by him and his partners on these ventures. If the entities had just defaulted on the loans with no personal guarantees, then he would have been o.k.
If a lawyer advised him to sign the PG’s, stupid lawyer who should be disbarred. If the projects couldn’t be sold to a bank in the crazy underwriting we had in Florida, when hairdressers were getting loans to build strip malls with no PG’s, then they were doomed to fail from day one. When will people with money learn, never, never, never sign a personal guarantee for any reason!
He did what many people of all walks of life did, he made money on his first couple of real estate deals and thought all of them would be gold mines. Because his deals had many more zeros at the end of them than anything most of us would even dream of, it looks worse. He also is the last man left standing on these deals, so the banks are going after him for all of the loans balances, not just deficiencies.
As has been said many times, when you already have enough,why risk it? Safe investments that just generate enough interest/dividends to live off of would have been fine given his earnings from football.
Professional athletes are extremely succeptible to bad investments, even more so than physicians. Out of curiosity, I looked at the Jacksonville paper the day this story broke, and the reporter noted that the majority of Brunell’s liabilities stem from sour real estate deals.
I think Bernie Kosar and Lenny Dykstra also have declared bankruptcy.
Lew Alcindor had a manager that stole millions and millions from him. That was back in the 1980s.
Mike Tyson is said to have pissed away hundreds of millions of dollars. Much of that was liberated by Don King.
I remember former baseball slugger Jack Clark. He went bankrupt within a couple years of his retirement. He lost millions trying to start his own race team. “How do you make a small fortune in race cars?” Start with a large fortune.
I have heard it said that more than 50 percent of the athletes that play pro sports end up broke. Just think of the obstacles. Many come from culturally disadvantaged backgrounds. How many players in the NBA function with the maturity of a juvenile? They are pampered as adolescents and never grow up. They surround themselves with sycophants and hangers-on that have an eye on their wallet at all time. Hey, posses aren’t cheap. They get involved with expensive hobbies such as drugs, traveling and women. How much does Reverend Evander Holyfield pay out for that gaggle of bastard children he has running around? They buy houses that not only cost a fortune but cost a fortune to keep up. They aren’t exactly driving around in a Ford Focus either.
You can also throw in the mental effects of concussions and brain trauma. I believe it was Mike Webster of the Pittsburgh Steelers that lived under a bridge for several years. Some buddies tried to straighten him out. He died young, having suffered massive brain injuries during his career.
I still marvel at the amount of people that just wish they could win the lottery and have all of their problems solved. It would make me laugh if it wasn’t so damn frightening.
NYCityBoy,
Not doubting a word of it, and think most of those cases are fairly well documented.., but they also provide the perfect crutch.
Nicolas Cage would have the world believe he’s pretty shrewd too. Now that ( his One-man-housing-bubble ) has come apart at the seams, yes, it was his mgr’s fault!
It’s long been a way for celebs to have their cake and eat it too, then plead ignorance when their own lifestyle becomes their own undoing. They can muster empathy at the same time and sort of “reconnect” w/ their fans. Look! I got screwed by the man too!
Sports Illustrated did a great piece on athlete caveat emptor a few years ago. In one example, baseball player Torii Hunter invested $70,000 in a company that would manufacture inflatable rafts to be placed under pieces of furniture. In the event of a flood, the user would pump air into the rafts, which then would float the furniture to safety.
http://tinyurl.com/ljxmt4
Wrong analysis. The economy is sooooo bad that even those making (or who made) good money or have substantial assets must now file. The law hasn’t been altered since Congress made the changes of 2005 so the only difference now is the economy.
This guy may be a knucklehead but the fact that he qualifies to file says nothing about the law. There are strict means-testing controls which dictate whether someone can file or not. Every case is different. However, approximately 90+% of those who qualified under the old law can still file under the new.
I’m seeing an interesting landscape emerge whereby people who refuse to take ANY risk in life are throwing rocks at the parades of those who are doing very poorly (and need some sort of aid) AND those who are powering through the depression and doing well.
Especially in these horrible times, those who will prosper are those who take risks and (in my view) work for themselves. They, therefore, are in control of their own fate.
Especially in these horrible times, those who will prosper are those who take risks and (in my view) work for themselves. They, therefore, are in control of their own fate.
Right on, BKlawyer. The key part of the above is that when you are in control of your fate, you have to take action.
You can’t blame your inaction on The Economy. The Economy is what it is. It’s up to you to say, “This is as good as it gets, so it’s time for me to get going.”
In defense of those who “….don’t take any risks….”
It’s not that some of us don’t want to “take risks”. Us old- fashioned folks don’t want to assume any “risk” that we can’t afford to pay the bill on, if things go south.
But we were all losers, because as Harry Callahan put it, “A man’s got to know his limitations”. Nobody can make any money trying to sell stuff to us (financially) conservative losers. So huge sums have been flushed down the toilet by idiots reinforcing each others bull$hit.
We paid the price for this crap on the way up (in inflated housing prices, Wall Street speculation on stocks and commodities, listening to people telling us how stupid we were by not buying 8-9 spec properties, etc.) and now we’re paying the price on the way down (unemployment, bail-outs for the “risk-takers”, government that pigged out on property taxes generated by bubble prices, and now wants to jack up taxes).
“Sympathy” for “risk-takers” is just a word in Webster’s between “$hit” and “spyhilis”, as far as I’m concerned
government that pigged out
Don’t forget that the banksters Corporate Monopolies/lobbyists paid the CONgress/SINate to change the laws over the past 10+ years allowing them to dismantle the Glass-Steagal (sp?)Act in 1999 which allows for ALL banks, big and small to utilize their proprietary software programs to not “Day trade” but second by second trade all the money they get and got via the Tarp that W originally put through then this other one too. Using all the funds that are supposed to go to people and biz that need to borrow, just is NOT there, because it is legalized gambling that is going on, second by second and we do not see it.
But it is there.
‘Mericans don’t know it, won’t read about it either and it will continue to devastate the economy.
Now that isn’t saying that folks have a responsibility, but the Corporate Monopoly Dictatorship governing our “elected/selected” members rules all.
No, X-G, you’re not following me. I’m not saying “have sympathy” for the guys who bought 8 condos or that now is the time to buy 8 condos. It just becomes easy after a while to say “what a moroon!” (per Bugs Bunny) to the poor who had/have no clue and the used-to-be-rich (now poor) who made stupid choices when, in the rear view mirror, we were all prophets. In fact, there is a new dynamic and it’s time to leave the other stuff behind and go forward and be prosperous DESPITE what our Govt. is doing for/to us.
The biggest change I’ve noted in my bankruptcy practice over the past 19 years has been the increase in the amount of CC debt. Back in the early 90s, most folks in chapter 7 cases had about 10K owed on CCs. Now I routinely get people with 60-70K, and my office record is a (get this, folks) “financial advisor” who racked up 95 large just on cards. He told that he did so in order to appear successful to his clients. I sympathize for the poor saps who entrusted him with their life savings.
I once joked that I would waive the filing fee ($299) once someone broke through the 100 thousand barrier as though it was some unattainable goal. But just as the 4 minute mile and the speed of sound were eventually shattered, I’m sure it’s just a matter of time before I get my first six figure CC case.
I once joked that I would waive the filing fee ($299) once someone broke through the 100 thousand barrier as though it was some unattainable goal. But just as the 4 minute mile and the speed of sound were eventually shattered, I’m sure it’s just a matter of time before I get my first six figure CC case.
I am SO glad that my tea mug is resting peacefully on its coaster. Or else you’d be owing me a new monitor and keyboard.
“…just a matter of time before I get my first six figure CC case.”
Forbes ran a piece a couple of years ago about CC debt in San Diego, CA and Miami, FL. Some of the families cited were north of $100k on their cards, and the general consensus was that the cost of living in these two cities had outpaced the ability of middle-class earners with two good incomes to raise their families without sinking in CC debt.
Of course many people feel entitled to live near family regardless of the financial risks involved, and a $40k automobile (one for him, one for her) is a gawd given right.
“That is when they come to see me. Or they wait until they have depleted all their savings and retirement accounts, hoping that things will turn around.”
I wonder how much of our economy - how much spending - has been due to people depleting their savings and retirement accounts hoping things will turn around. That’s what the governments’ agenda is all about, IMO, their agenda is to keep hope alive and keep spending up.
But once the source of the hope-inspired spending - savings and retirement accounts - have been depleted just what is going to be the source of future spending?
The second economic down-leg awaits.
I know quite a few people, many who were employed in the REIC who fit this description perfectly. Burning through savings while hoping for a miraculous economic turnaround and a return to the days of easy money selling houses and mortgages. They refuse to accept that those days in the past were an aberration, an anomaly, that now only the highly skilled can earn more than 100K per year.
If the MSM thinks that BK filings are high now, they should just wait until these people begin to hit the wall en masse.
Sadly, I think that at least as much spending is people burning through their credit rather than their savings.
But once the credit and the savings have been burned through, then what?
IMO much of current spending/investment is knifecatcher money, money spent by buy-the-dip folks who think of this downturn in temporary liquidity crisis terms rather than longer-lasting structural debt-destruction terms. Once these knifecatchers are forced to “get it” then these free-spending knifectchers will become stingy cash-hoarders. That’s when the economy, which is seventy-percent based on consumption spending, will really begin to slow.
Unfortunately this knife-catcher cash is just enough for a down payment. They are raiding their $15K checking account + $8K tax incentive to put 10% down on a $250K house. It’s a VERY expensive game of kick-the-can down the road, to the point where the can itself is nearly disintegrated and we’re running out of actual road. Their eventual blowout will be the last of the down-bounces along the bottom, ~ 2015.
You’re on quite the role this morning, Combo. This is no time to be a “volunteer” with one’s cash.
Of course the counter argument is that we are poised for another period akin to 1983-2006. To which I respond, everyone and their brother is counting on that very scenario. Soooo, if the crowd is looking one way…
“I wonder how much of our economy - how much spending - has been due to people depleting their savings and retirement accounts hoping things will turn around.”
That question has been searing through my head all year too! I’d love to be able to know the truth - but learning the answer requires the passage of time. By the time we find out we might be living in an entirely different set of circumstances.
Oh, and you hit the nail on the head regarding the gov’t agenda concerning savings. To those choosing to commit their resources this early in the game - be forewarned - the gov’t will drop you like an ugly girlfriend once they’ve gotten what they want. Yeah you takers of the $8,000 - I’m lookin’ at you!
But once the source of the hope-inspired spending - savings and retirement accounts - have been depleted just what is going to be the source of future spending?
An interesting question. Will they fire up the printing presses and literally hand out money to the masses? Will they provide huge tax credits for buying cars and appliances (to the tune of subsidizing the purchases by 50%)?
Granted, our “allies” want us to embrace “austerity”, so who knows what’s going to happen?
But in the end the bitter truth will prevail: Jobs do matter. Jobs that create goods and services of tangible value (especially goods and services that are tradeable, that can be exported), as opposed to the parasite jobs where people create nothing of true value but collect huge commissions for BS work.
If our allies wanted us to embrace austerity they would stop loaning us money.
They want us to buy their product and decapitate our manufacturing.
“I wonder how much of our economy - how much spending - has been due to people depleting their savings and retirement accounts hoping things will turn around. That’s what the governments’ agenda is all about, IMO, their agenda is to keep hope alive and keep spending up.”
Yeah, that and not making a house payment frees up a sizable amount of cash too.
Yeah, that and not making a house payment frees up a sizable amount of cash too.
A recent issue of Business Week and, a few weeks after that, a televised Meredith Whitney interview, noted the above.
Keep paying on credit cards for food, etc daily requirements than “under water homes” that will never be paid for as there is already another 50% drop from here by Schuller, and other experts. What a mess our Home buyers belief that” buy now before the prices go up more” by the preachers of good faith. Taxpayers will pay for the sins of the banks big time for their mistakes as private federal reserve prints money out of thin air and gives to the banks.
Another bail out coming soon? Yes. Stock market crashes and Now need a another new bail out to save us all. Common sense out the window!
“tis but a flesh wound”
“I guess it has and always will be about the developer and how many homes they can squeeze into the land.”
Ain’t that the truth. Montgomery County, just outside DC, has a large Agricultural Preserve, which is probably the only thing that saved it from being paved over with canyons of townhomes. Local pols* do allow little developments, for example on one field. I had occasion to drive through one once. And that one field is packed with cheap Attached Product — no room for trees, of course. Ironically enough, the homes are attached, but the signs advertise “Detached garages!” Yeah, the garages are lined along the back alley, and separated from the houses…by about 4 feet of lawn, not enough to even play hopscotch. Why did they even bother? I would rather have a breezeway/mudroom that a little lawn.
——–
— for homes and strip malls.
* I’m sure the local pols really wanted to develop, but thank god the building stopped before they had time to dismantle the Ag Preserve. It had gotten so bad in other counties, and in NorthernVA that people were clamoring to sell off the Civil War battlefields — like Bull Run and Antietam
My cousin bought a house at the edge of suburbia in Leesburg, VA a few years ago(near bubble top). He knows how I feel about RE, but I pointed out that the bright side of the RE bust is that the giant open field next to his property isn’t likely to be developed any time soon. Of course at the family reunion the other week he slyly asked me whether I thought that RE prices were going to turn around. HE pretty much knows how I feel, but his wife apparantly wants sell and move up to a nicer house already.
If I had a cousin like yours, the potential entertainment via torture would be too much to resist.
Hey, ex, I can top that. One of my three cousins is a (gasp!) Realtor.
And, last summer, when I was visiting my aunt and one of her sons (another of the three cousins), very little was said about Steve other than to note his very expensive tastes.
Are these your relatives in VT? Hehhh…. I’m sure Steve is challenged at the moment in financing his “expensive tastes” in VT.
Are these your relatives in VT? Hehhh…. I’m sure Steve is challenged at the moment in financing his “expensive tastes” in VT.
My VT relatives are not the types who are interested in expensive stuff. Far from it. That’s why Steve (who isn’t in VT) gets so much notice for his pricey tastes.
AZ… I was being presumptuous. My apologies. Historically, we VT natives have been known to be frugal but generous yet the current crop of imports in VT are exactly what your cousin is like…. snobbish, label chasing, bank slaves. Very unlike what VT folks are known for.
Sadly, HE’S not the idiot, just trying to stay married and living in the same house as his kids. When he spend almost a year trying to sell his house in CA (before he bought in Leesburg) I said “Just lower the price, there’s ALWAYS a price that you can sell if for tomorrow if you want to,” his response was, “Tell that to my wife.” Amusingly, during that time, he was crashing with my parents while is family was elsewhere. And my parents are pretty liberal, and he’s pretty conservative. So whenever we went out somewhere, it was ALWAYS a politcal discussion because he was too polite to argue with people who were putting him up, so he had hours of “arguing with liberals,” that he had to do or his head would explode.
So he’s a deluded LoanOwner and braindead main stream media palinite to boot.
Please introduce us….. lmao.
Yeah, his wife and him both like Palin. Unlike my other cousin who lives in Alaska. He’s NOT economicly naive but I suspec that his wife may be.
HAMP is a scam. Those 75 billion are going toward those three-month mods. How many are going to be permanent? Very few. It’s easy to answer my dead-horse “Refinance into WHAT” question for a three month time frame, but not for 25-30 years.
And soon we’ll have “victims” feigning innocence that they Didn’t Know the payment would go up after three months, the same sad-sack theatre as they did for the NINJA loan that got them into this mess. Only this time they can blame it on Obama.
Hey, it was ALWAYS about triage. And to the surprise of just about nobody around here, there aren’t very many people in the area between “beyond saving” and “don’t need saving.” And while I wouldn’t say that it’s not worth trying to help those in that sweet spot, the costs of this show that it was a VERY inefficient way of doing so. It all comes down the the commonly held belief that we’re suffering from liquidity problems that can be fixed by a bit of “extend and pretend,” not fundamental balance sheet issues that are merely made worse by that tactic.
‘I have many clients who own 20, 30 or even 50 rental houses. The rent is not sufficient to pay the mortgages, the banks will not renegotiate the loans and the properties are not selling. It is interesting to note that the rents never covered the mortgage payments. They never cash-flowed.”
Then they weren’t rental homes in the first place, they were speculative investments.
A “rental” home that doesn’t cash flow is not unique to the housing bubble, IMO. At one time I thought I might become a landlord and own a rental property or two for a little cash flow. That was the point, some cash flow. And I was shocked, I tell you, shocked how many properties were touted as good rental investments that didn’t cash flow. When I questioned the realtors about this, they shrugged and mumbled something about “future appreciation” and the possiblity of raising the rents. Why would I want to pay out of pocket for the privilege of having the headaches of landlording? Never made sense to me.
Yeah me too, I would say, I can’t see how this works out…better see my cpa…I thought maybe it was in the depreciation writeoff. LOL
In Montana,
Nothing says the death of a potential sale to a realtwhore quite like “I’d better check with my CPA”!
They of course know it will -never- stand up to the scrutiny and generally speaking the knee-jerk response of nearly all CPA’s is to respond “No”. But it never stops them trying?
When all else fails they’ll blather on about tax advantages and such. Sad truth is.., buying into a REIT often doesn’t make a whole lot more sense?
The quickest way to get rid of a scammer is to say, “I’ll need to run this past my accountant/attorney.”
My preferred line: “Y’know, before I go ahead with this, I’d like to talk with my attorney and my accountant. If they have any questions for you, they’ll get in touch.”
Next scene: Scammer’s burning rubber to get as far away from Slim as possible.
“Better call Saul!”
When I first moved to Miami in late ‘06 I was renting a 2/2 for $1400. The house was for sale @ $385K. With mortgage + insurance + taxes that would have come to a grand total of about $3200/month. Maybe a great bargain for the mathematically challenged but not for me. In 3/09 I ended up buying a nicer place in foreclosure for $109K….and I still wonder if that was a smart move. Instead of paying a landlord I am priviledged to fund the out of control spending of the local municipality. Miami Shores even had to lay off their full time tennis instructor and his 3 assistants. You know times are hard when the city needs to let the tennis instructor go.
“Miami Shores even had to lay off their full time tennis instructor and his 3 assistants. You know times are hard when the city needs to let the tennis instructor go.”
What, there is no tennis instructor union?
Mike, similar story here. Been renting a 3000 sq ft home 5/4 with pool for about 1/2 the cost of owning for 3 years. Every year when the lease is up for renewal the owner asks if I want to buy. I just laugh.
In the last 3 years the owner has replaced/repaired
New roof- 40k
New tile- 6k
Pool resurfaced- 4k
New A/C 4k
New toilets- 500
New Dishwasher- 500
New Water Heater 500
various repairs- 2000
And the best, when I first moved in, they were asking almost 600k for the house and 2800 rent. I negotiated it to 2500, then renegotiated it down to 2000 as the market softened. Taxes are 6k a year. Insurance 5k. HOA 1k.
I figure even at today’s prices of mid 300k’s, the monthly nut to “own” this house would be 3500-4k a month, and pray the value doesn’t continue to fall. All of my friends and family that thought I was a fool in 2007 for not buying before I was priced out now think I’m a genius for not buying then. Plus, I don’t have to worry about upkeep other than the basics. I went to Home Depot for the first time in 6 months last week. When I owned one of my many homes, I was in there every weekend for something. I seriously don’t see a valid reason to buy anytime soon, unless a super deal comes up at 50% off market price
Regarding rentals, I’ve owned a few of them as well, and they were nothing but nightmares. The money made on the rental cash flow never outweighed the upkeep, damage, and bs I had to put up with. I agree with many here, how the hell do you buy a rental that is NEGATIVE cash flow? Not one property I have looked at in the past 4 years will positive cash flow. Not one. My case is a perfect example. Rentals are going for about 50% of the cost to own.
Add to that, there is going to be another wave of foreclosures and a next leg down in prices. I would not want to own right now for these and many other reasons.
40k for a new roof????
Did that include gold plated gutters and down spouts?
Not too hard to figure out. You can’t put up shingle, ( Love those HOA’s)
3000 Sq ft + 600 for the garage= 3600 sq ft S barrel tile + plywood+ gutters. Just under 38k. That’s what happens when you have a 20 year old roof and don’t address the roof leak for year. The underlying wood gets rotted and you have to replace it. We told them a year ago but they kept putting it off. Now in addition to the new roof, they have to address the water stains on the inside ceilings and the water damage on a wall.
But the purpose of the HOA fees is to pay for all exterior mainenance? No?
Many HOA fees are only for limited things. Our sub’s HOA only covers maintenance on commons landscaping and fences that border on commons areas, plus irrigation pump maintenance and electricity - that sort of thing. Roads are covered by the county. Everything else is borne by the individual homeowners.
Annual dues - $300.
No, many HOAs are detached single-family homes, the owners are responsible for the exteriors, the HOA just takes care of the common area streets and front-yard landscaping. We just had our “starter” home painted for 2K, the advantage of not living in a McMansion.
And a lot of these new landlords are STILL speculating, because I have yet to see these people budget for the typical repairs you mention above.
no trips to home depot (PRICELESS) as a 5 yr renter , i remember the weekend trips to the depot the honey do list,i have not had one of those for 5 years as long as grass is cut wife is happy no expensive projects,weekend free for golf and surfing…
‘I have many clients who own 20, 30 or even 50 rental houses.’
Ho ho, hah hah, hehehehehehe, BwaHaHaAhHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Yours is an evil laugh.
And how did this person QUALIFY for 50 houses? I’d love to see the loan applications for those.
No fraud here folks.
Maybe they got loans from the good Christian folks at Integrity Bank. Why is it that the people most public about their piety are also some of the biggest crooks?
It’s all about Identity Politics. You saw the same thing in a lot of minority communities: people who could “speak the language” were automatically trusted.
You saw the same thing in a lot of minority communities: people who could “speak the language” were automatically trusted.
Oh, brother, did that happen here in Tucson, Oh, did it ever.
snake charmer,
I had never heard of this bank until traveling this week and saw their billboards and tv ads. Your comments echo what I said to my wife.
I think there is a specially hot place in the eternal fire for people who use their “supposed religiousness” to con and harm others. Unfortunately, these cases seem to be escalating in number and dollar amounts of the fraud.
I wouldn’t put $20 in a bank that advertises the way they do.
After my ‘investment’ house burned down (owned a rented out home in LA) and I had to rebuild, I used contents $ to buy 2 condos at $20k each and then got approved for a $70k home as well. The Fraud contractor who was rebuilding the home, said he would buy the 2 condos from me at my cost. I was so durn nervous, and got out of the escrow for the 70k house. I thought, OMG how am I to pay for all of this if my tenants are bad. Turns out this being 95, even then I could qualify at the bank for up to 10 mortgages at my minor pay range. It shocked me then.
Still doesn’t make sense to me either.
Perhaps those of us who grew up in the fiat money era are conditions to think in terms of inflation, and factor it into future cash flows. But what about downside risk, and the value of yoru time? You’d at least want the property to be cash flow neutral to positive up front.
Even in commercial real estate, going in cap rates dropped to silly lows. But at least they didn’t fall below zero.
To those who wish to get into the joys of rental housing, I suggest doing what I did.
Check a copy of Leigh Robinson’s book, Landlording, out of the library. Read it slowly and carefully, from cover to cover. It’s about 400 pages and they’re 8.5″ x 11″, so this will take you some time.
If you still want to be a landlord after reading this book, you may have a chance. But, if you’re like me, you may realize that landlording’s just not for you. And that’s a very good thing to realize.
It looks like our investment girl at wealthisgood.blogspot.com has bought her 4th or 5th rental property. She was born with a silverspoon in her mouth and invests grandpa’s money that he gave her as part of his retirement strategy. All her tennants are section 8 who drive mercedes and jaguars.
—–“Nina LaFleur with the LaFleur Law Firm in St. Augustine: ‘I have many clients who own 20, 30 or even 50 rental houses. The rent is not sufficient to pay the mortgages,—–
Buh buh buh but I don’t understand…
If someone “owns” something, how can he have a mortgage on it? I own my shoes… i don’t have to worry about rent covering payments?
Ahhhh the tragedy of the abuse of the word “own” in the realtard world.
If only they stopped calling 22 yo engaged couples taking mortgage on $600k properties with nothing in bank and whilst having $40 incomes… home”owners”… perhaps the healing could begin
I would argue that if you are a debt-slave, you do not actually “own” your shoes either. Still, it humors the slaves to say that they own things, if not themselves.
I have no debt.
Hard working evildoc, $300k wage slave at very high stress hospital work. $900/mo apartment. Paid off 250hp Honda Accord 2004 V-6 couple. Admittedly eat out most of time running $600-800/month. Really nothing else. Save a fair bunch.
Pretty sure I own my shoes, but I am amenable to counter arguments.
I own my shoes too!
I own my shoes, but I lease the laces.
My soles have been rehabbed several x. Upkeep on these things is HIGH, maybe I SHOULD rent them?!
““Her immediate solution to avoid foreclosure was to find a credit card and take out the cash needed to satisfy Wells Fargo.”
Ironically, this might be a GOOD idea. $35K can be overcome. That is, IF Paula has the good sense break even on the house, wash her hands of homemoanership for good, and rent FAR FAR below her means. They could probably pay off $10K of the cc debt just from downsizing the house goodies and furnishing the aparmtment like those model rooms in the IKEA store. If she and her husband can keep their jobs (in Canton!), and they scrimp, they might be able to pay off the cc debt in 3-4 years. That’s the kind of news story I’d like to see — an honest couple honestly working their way out of debt.
“If she and her husband can keep their jobs (in Canton!).” Canton is a suburb of Atlanta.
“If she and her husband can keep their jobs.”
And, if so, can keep their wages up.
If they can keep wages and benifits up.
Don’t forget benifits; Benifits act as another form of wages.
Ifs and buts, candy and nuts.
edge,
Not to get too OT but has your Gov. lost his mind? Here you have a state that’s on the verge of insolvency and Quinn’s giving ‘raises’ to his staff?
Dude, what up?
I really had higher hopes for Quinn (he’s an outsider, etc) but he’s gotten sucked into the same garbage that our state has been dealing with since time immemorial. It’s a race to see which state is worst off (CA, NJ, IL) but we have such the wonderful combination of incompetents and fraudsters that I’d like to claim victory. I’ll vote 3rd party again but we’ll have either Quinn or a real weak dopey Republican named Brady running the state. And then, bankruptcy? 300% tax increase? All of the above?Can’t wait!
DinOR, sadly that stuff is going on all through our state/muni gov’ts. I’m sure lots here have local examples that they can cite - even in these precarious times.
There’s not much that strikes fear in the heart of a bureaucrat. Well, there are a few things but it’s best for me to shut up now.
This is another of my pet-peeve news stories that leaves out the state. Even going to the original story means you have to poke around on the website to figure out what state they are reporting from. To me “Canton” means Canton, Ohio, unless otherwise specified.
“Paula Milton . .. and her husband bought their home in 2006 as an investment. ‘We expected it would have a good bit of equity,’ she said. ‘It went the opposite way and we’re underwater $35,000.’ Mrs. Milton is left with a bad taste for the ‘change’ promised in Obama’s campaign. ‘We’re good people.”
This piece of . . . thinks my taxes should go up to make her whole for bad and reckless investments on the basis she is “good people,” but God forbid I ask her to cover my losses. “Good” is not the adjective I would use in describing her.
Yep. Good or Evil is irrelevant. Foolhardy or risk-averse is the question. I get somewhat tired of “prosperity gospel” type who seem to think that if they bet everything on black, somehow God us supposed to be obliged to make the ball land there. Look I’m not in favor of kicking the unfortunate or stupid forever when they’re down. At a fundamental level that is why we HAVE bankruptcy laws. It is by design unpleasent and painful, but it is supposed to enable people to come out on the other side, rather than leaving them in thrall to the bankers, who after all made the equally unfortunate or stupid decision to lend them the money in the first place.
Its interesting how people fear bankruptcy because “they won’t have any credit”.
Isn’t that what got them into trouble in the first place?
How may Casey-esque RE fraudsters will make the journey from “I can’t declare bankruptcy,” to “I wish I could declare bankruptcy.”
get somewhat tired of “prosperity gospel” type who seem to think that if they bet everything on black, somehow God us supposed to be obliged to make the ball land there.
And to think that, in the Episcopal churches my family went to, I heard that you weren’t supposed to make deals with God.
Making deals with god reminds me of the end of the film called The End starring Burt Reynolds.
“Fifty percent, Lord! I’m talking gross!” LOL
“Dan and Lisa Capetto of Acworth thought the house was a good investment and would sell well when they were ready to ’scale back,’ as many people do after children leave home.”
How does this logic work out when multiplied across millions of soon-to-be empty-nester baby boom generation households?
I read a few articles that indicated that unemployment was highest among recent grads. The bottom rung on the housing ladder has seen their parents stress over falling prices, and don’t have stable high paying jobs. How can the ponzi scheme continue?
“tis mearly a pin prick”
Step kid just got offered post phd grad a science teaching position at HS. And I too thought it was going to be difficult for him. Looks like these kids are never ever going to experience life. But then again, lots of kids from wealthy families never ever experience the idea of managing money or working hard for something.
I need to reread Kiyosaki’s books- lol
“How does this logic work out when multiplied across millions of soon-to-be empty-nester”
Uh… good question! Why hadn’t more considered this when chasing their slice of the American Dream ( read getting someone ‘else’ to fund your retirement )
Dent had been banging on this since the mid-90’s. Evidently the book didn’t sell all that well.
At some level it doesn’t really matter how much the boomers have saved in aggreage for their retirements. The SS trust fund, the 401(k)s, the savings accounts, the money invested in stocks and bonds all represent claims to the production of those who are still working. As I’ve said before we don’t have warehouses of Depends, nurses, Caprice Clasics, and golf club memberships. Almost all of the goods and services consumed by retirees will be produced by people still working. More money saved mostly means that the tide of money flowing into Wall Street when the boomers are working and flow out after they retire is bigger. Rather than productiviey improving plant and material, most of the money seems to have funded financial “innovations” which seem to be fancy ways of creating the illusion that lending money at ever greater DTI ratios was actually “safe investing.” So there seems to be little economic reason to believe that companies that were invested in will be worth more in real terms when the BB cohort takes the money out than when they put it in.
Jim A,
Well.., that about sums it up now doesn’t it! Yeah, and for the most part, it doesn’t appear to me that boomers had the slightest design to in any way curtail that consumption?
Personally, I’m thinking one of the most important “assets” one can acquire toward a well funded retirement is an ample wine cellar!
Methinks that widespread retirement is on its way out.
Arizona Slim,
And for the life of me, I couldn’t figure it out? When I worked for the old FleetBoston, I had access to over 18,000 client relationships and save for a few noteworthy IRA’s.., SELDOM did you see an acct. balance over $500k!
Try more like $50k. Many in the client-base lived in pricey NW Portland where property taxes typically run a grand a month. NONE of it added up? Mind you, all this -before- Real Estate went in the toilet.
This.., in a supposed affluent community.
yeah it amazes me how many people think that having ~1 years salary saved up will be of any noticeable help in retirement. My rough, back of the envelope calculations show that with SS, Federal Employee Retirement System payments and a paid off house, I need something like 500k saved up. So I’m boggled by people over 50 with ~30 years left on their mortgages, no pension, and no significant retirement savings, who anticipate retirement at 62.
Jim A,
Nothing short of maddening! As I recall, you’re SINGLE ( right? ) You’d be surprised how many -couples- seem to want to believe that 500k *between* them will not only suffice, but leave room for plenty of ‘nice’ to haves.
Moreover, in so many cases the $’s they had in their various inv. accounts never really amounted to anything more than “parking” the cash!
Nearly every DIME of that was earmarked for even further adventures and seldom if EVER did I see them materialize. Virtually all of it went into funding lifestyle! One time we had two middle-aged siblings foaming at the mouth over like $200k in Boeing shares and they sat across the table from me like it was all the money in the world!
Portland has little dreams. We’re so surrounded by poverty on all sides even modest sums seem totally out of scale. I have friends that call on 401k plans and for each PLAN over $500k ( there’s a -dozen- guys calling on it! )
the SS fund is going to be completely dismantled by the CONgress/SINate who do not even pay into it.
HOW is that Possible?
Why do ‘mericans allow these crooks to make decisions based on Corporate Monopolies wants?
The single most underestimated change vector in this country is demographics.
“Paula Milton, who has a home in Canton, said she had a similar experience. She and her husband bought their home in 2006 as an investment. ‘We expected it would have a good bit of equity,’ she said. ‘It went the opposite way and we’re underwater $35,000.’”
Now I know you scumbag realtors and drowning LoanOwners are reading but you should print this snippet and post it on your fridge. And if you forget it, I’ll be there to remind you every time you LIE to a sucker by telling them a house is an “investment”.
Yes….. I will be there reminding you all.
house is an “investment”.
I know several of those ’scumbag realtors/loanowners who absolutely do not ascribe to that premise, nor do they tell clients that.
But I don’t know em all.
Just a few.
I don’t hang out with the other kind. ewwwww.
Paula Milton
“She and her husband bought their home in 2006 as an investment. ‘We expected it would have a good bit of equity,’ she said. ‘It went the opposite way and we’re underwater $35,000.”
“Mrs. Milton is left with a bad taste for the ‘change’ promised in Obama’s campaign. ‘We’re good people.”
“There’s got to be something for us,’ she said.”
What! You expected your investment would have a good bit of equity and it went the opposite way! Now you are $35k underwater! You were promised ‘change’! You have a bad taste in your mouth! You`re good people? There’s got to be something for you?
How about this Paula, some mouthwash and a trailer park where other good people live that have made really bad decisions. That would be something for you, and it would also be a change.
If I ever get to meet Obama, I’ll ask him if he has two tens for a twenty. If he can break my twenty, well, that’s change I can believe in.
Hey, I bought a mutual fund as as investment and it’s LOST money! So where’s my bailout?
“Her immediate solution to avoid foreclosure was to find a credit card and take out the cash needed to satisfy Wells Fargo. Mrs. Milton is left with a bad taste for the ‘change’ promised in Obama’s campaign. ‘We’re good people. There are people going bankrupt and getting out of all of it. There’s got to be something for us,’ she said.”
Where is my FREE money? Where is my something for nothing? The government OWES us.
2banana,
I ask myself that everyday. When you compare the attitudes toward losses sustained during the dot.com boom to the HB ( we looked downright stoic! )
How has it come to pass that our mentality toward Risk ( and whom should foot the bill? ) has changed so much in such a short time?
O-B-A-M-A and government’s encouragement of homebuying as form of financial security. Remember Obama wasn’t elected based on ability and/or achievement, but on a platform of screwing hardworking, responsible people to divert cashflows to the lazy and/or reckless.
You have to admit that this mentality has been cheered on by several administrations, or have we forgotten about the “ownership society”.
The Banksters and the REIC in general like it this way.
And just to remind you:
The republican congress and GW Bush promulgated and made law:
the American Dream Low Downpayment Act
the Zero Down Payment Act
In addition during the period of time that the restrictions on F&F were eased there was a REPUBLICAN MAJORITY in both the House and Senate. Republican Congressman Phil Gramm and the Gramm, Leach, Blilley bill eliminated the Glass Steagal restrictions on banks making risky investments with depositors monies and allowed banks to diversify and act as brokers and investment banks. Clinton had to sign the bill as there being a republican majority he could not successfully veto it.
And don’t forget Reagan’s contribution to the housing troubles, he deregulated the S&L’s which led to them making tremendously bad bets in commercial real estate speculation. That cost the US taxpayer $160 BILLION IN 1980′S dollars.
Bush and a decade of Republican controlled Senate and House left us with a near depression, high unemployment, a $200 Billion surplus squandered into a $1.3 TRILLION deficit, 2 wars, and complete deregulation and lack of oversight of the oil business and ultimately the price of oil tripling in his 8 years in office, etc, etc. . Go look up the statistics and see for yourself.
Obviously the work of those you mention was unfinished. The new team is doing their best to get it across the goal line.
Maybe so but there is no need to run from facts.
Clinton had to sign the bill as there being a republican majority he could not successfully veto it.
It is OK to rant. But this line is just pure propoganda.
Had to sign it? Like a gun and a blue dress was in his face?
You do know that to over ride a veto take 2/3 of both the house and the senate (something the republicans NEVER had).
I didn’t expect you to come up with anything substantive or to refute the facts so your response is predictable.
Exeter,
Is there anything in your view that isn’t the fault of Republicans?
Last time i checked a D was in the white house since 2008 and Congress has been controlled by the D’s since 2006. Facts is facts. Unemployment was 5% when Bush left. Obama promised no more than 8% with his trillions in Keynsian spending. We are bumping on 10%. Obama had clear majorities in both houses for over a year. Time to put on the big boy pants and take some ownership for this administration’s mistakes and poor policy.
No worries though, as come November you won’t have to worry about blaming everyone else. The grown ups will be back running the show.
Much as I think history will show that the crooks of the past decade were pikers compared to the crooks of the last year, I doubt that the “grownups” will be in control after November.
Where have all the grownups gone, long time passing…..
Blue Skye,
You mean grownups ( other than on ‘this’ Blog? ) Love ta’ meet ‘em!
Right! I think Exeter makes some decent points as usual but when any of us go down a path of stringing together various and disparate points, it can be easy to get in trouble?
One thing I’ll never get, and Wars aren’t exactly ‘cheap’ are they? But what’s the assertion here? If we were at total peace (ha! ) that there’d be infinitely more money to pump into HAMP! To keep afloat the very FB’s we despise so much!?
Price of Oil. Price of rice.., not sure I see a connection there. One could assert that at $10 a barrel ( late 90’s ) that THAT was a total anomaly! That said, even though I’m fairly certain a good many seats will change hands in November, I’m -equally- confident very little will change in terms of problem solving? Just fresh faces we’ll learn to hate in no time at all.
“Last time i checked a D was in the white house since 2008 and Congress has been controlled by the D’s since 2006. Facts is facts. Unemployment was 5% when Bush left. Obama promised no more than 8% with his trillions in Keynsian spending. We are bumping on 10%. Obama had clear majorities in both houses for over a year. Time to put on the big boy pants and take some ownership for this administration’s mistakes and poor policy.
No worries though, as come November you won’t have to worry about blaming everyone else. The grown ups will be back running the show.”
————————————————————————–
You’re correct. Facts are facts but you didn’t post any. You’re opinions mean little to us here.
Bush inherited a 4% unemployment rate(and falling), $200 billion cash surplus and a world at peace. Bush left office in 2008 with a 7.6%(and skyrocketing) unemployment rate, $1.3 TRILLION deficit for 2008 alone and two failed wars.
Now those are the plain, verifiable, facts. It’s history. Now you’re entitled to have your opinions but the facts will always be the facts.
And yes there will be a surprise in November but not the way you think.
“…The grown ups will be back running the show.”
Hopefully the TruePatriot™” / Anti-Slavery / TrueIndustrialist™ / Anti-communist / Fiscal Conserative / Compassionate Conservative TrueDoNothing™ / TrueObstructionists™ / TrueGridLokers™/ TrueBeliever’s™ / TrueDeceiver’s ™ / TrueHypocrite™ / TruePatriot™ / TruePurity™
… can chew pretzels now without getting a black eye.
BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! (fpss™)
Interesting…no one here remembers when the dot.com bubble blew up…:(
SMF,
No jive. Why does it never arise unless it’s some vague “historic reference” if only to prove the poster’s point “that we’ve learned very little”? And then only to immediately conclude they were identical events and then compact the chronology to such a compressed state you’d think the South China Sea, Tulip, Dot.Com and Housing Boom all took place in the same decade?
Really starting to annoy me. And FWIW, we really need to put the brakes on where using/abusing the term “Failed” is concerned. Great way to vent and show our frustration ( whatever the source ) but it’s gotten so out of hand it might as well be considered profanity.
Sorry, if “I” want what ‘you’ got, all I need to do is hastily label it/you/the program/president/little league coach as “failed” and instantly confers ‘ownership’ from your hands to mine! I must admit it’s highly effective ( why else would we USE IT so damned often? )
The truth is, few things in this life are “failed”. At least not -totally- as is intended 99.9% of the time. Just… STOP!
Then extend that same apologetic excuse making to the current president. Or be forever known as an apologist for the Nixon/Palinites.
Why should we extend it?
The problem is debt, and Obama has made the debt problems worse, not better.
(something the republicans NEVER had). BULLSneeze Bullsneeze.
93 the CONgress/SINate became majority republican.
So, although I am not pleased with Nafta and 1999 reversal of Glass-Steagall Act during BC’s admin, it was ruled by the republican COn/Sin group. But yes, the ball is being pulled over the goal line, primarily because Corporate Monopoly is RULING and paying off All but a few of those in office.
“Remember Obama wasn’t elected based on ability and/or achievement, but on a platform of screwing hardworking, responsible people to divert cashflows to the lazy and/or reckless.”
Obama isn’t any than his predecessor they both screwed hardworking responsible people to bailout the rich.
I would agree with that, but at least he was honest about who he wanted to screw to pay for it. McCain had the exact same plans, but was mum about where the money was going to come from.
Yawn!
And one has to wonder exactly what the Republicans solution would have been. Likely no different.
Maybe it is just me, but I consider the taking of money from big business and big banking to be blatant corruption. The system is corrupt. As long as the system remains unreformed, the Party labels mean nothing. The blowing of Party trumpets is really a shame, a side show, a waste, a distraction, while the house burns down.
Ya might all want to rethink Reagans initial tax reductions to the wealthiest. And so it continued….
What! Peggy Joseph was wrong?
“I never thought this day would happen. I won’t have to work on puttin’ gas in my car. I won’t have to work at payin’ my mortgage. You know. If I help him [Obama], he’s gonna help me.”
We all have “her” money. The less we spend, however, the less there is available for the likes of her. This is high time to mesh personal beliefs with personal (financial) behavior. More than ever, our dollars are our true votes.
Ex, you have that right for sure.
And the 1999 reversal of the Glass- Steagall act to allow banks of all sizes to become dens of gambling just like the gambling INVESTMENT banks, but this time the banks are using our money/taxes to own proprietary software that allows them to do ‘daytrading’ but by the SECOND BY SECOND approach, not a Day long approach. POOF there goes our monies.
The other part of voting is if everyone voted.
“Her immediate solution to avoid foreclosure was to find a credit card and take out the cash needed to satisfy Wells Fargo. Mrs. Milton is left with a bad taste for the ‘change’ promised in Obama’s campaign. ‘We’re good people. There are people going bankrupt and getting out of all of it. There’s got to be something for us,’ she said.”
Don’t worry your pretty little head, Mrs. Milton—there is a bankruptcy in your future as well, so there _IS_ something for you…
Incidentally, running up credit-card debt (recourse) to pay down a no-recourse loan might qualify as one of the more foolish things one could do in these times… But the BK will absolve you of that as well, so I suppose it probably doesn’t matter.
Running up the cards within 90 days prior to filing BK can trigger a presumption of nondishargeability under 11 USC 523(a)(2(C).
Good reminder, goirishgohoosiers…
The New York Times: rich are defaulting at a higher rate than the poor.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/09/business/economy/09rich.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper
“More than one in seven homeowners with loans in excess of a million dollars are seriously delinquent, according to data compiled for The New York Times by the real estate analytics firm CoreLogic. By contrast, homeowners with less lavish housing are much more likely to keep writing checks to their lender. About one in 12 mortgages below the million-dollar mark is delinquent.”
Hmmm, they are measuring “the rich” by the size of the mortgage, not considering that perhaps one problem is that not all the people who who got $million mortgages in the bubble were “rich.”
“Though it is hard to prove, the CoreLogic data suggest that many of the well-to-do are purposely dumping their financially draining properties, just as they would any sour investment. ‘The rich are different: they are more ruthless,’ said Sam Khater, CoreLogic’s senior economist.”
I like how they mention the average price of a home in Los Altos CA is about $1.5 million, then show photos of places WAY ABOVE that average.
A friend of mine owns a $1.5 million house in Los Altos. It’s just a modest 3/2.5 on a 1/4 acre lot.
DennisN,
I’d have advised your friend to SELL! ( but… I imagine you’ve already tried that? )
More to the point, and this was the first article I read this AM, is that, the entire TOWN of.. Waterloo, IA could default and not cause the damage a handful of these jumbo loans will!
Or.. Guttenberg? Just earlier this week there was a collective nixing of my audacity to suggest we cordon off these high dollah’ dead zones and I hope you all now see ‘why’!
1 in 7! You’ve GOT to be kidding me? And folks, I hope I won’t get any argument that we’re still very much in the early going? How many Flyover FC’s does it take to = (1) Los Altos Strategic Default!? ( Work that out amongst yourselves )
D, I didn’t understand your suggestion of “cordoning off” certain areas at all. What good would that do? The credit-market was global and seems to have affected ALL areas. Further, the market is fundamentally interconnected between these areas and other areas—demand shifts from one area to another based on pricing. Trying to manage localized distortion strikes me as an exercise in futility and waste.
Prime,
Don’t buy into the MBS-Securitization Go-round. They’d have us believe they really don’t ‘know’ or can’t prove where these things have been shuffled off to so we’ll get off their backs!
( The truth is, no one wants stick out right about now? )
Do you mean to tell me these JUMBO Loans were written and now we can’t ‘find’ whom the $2 mil. is owed ‘to’? C’mon. I can tell you’re still not convinced. Ok, so assuming these “just fell through the cracks” please tell me we at least know who the ‘loanowner’ is!
We’re not talking about some blue collar guy that drained his/her 401k to catch up on the arrears on a 150k loan, are we! This is/’should’ be High Profile thit. But we’ve continued to treat as nothing more than a starter/fixer default. When are we going to wake up here!?
I tend to agree with you, D, that these high-value loans have a much higher probability of the homeowner/loanowner being pursued for recourse on the shortage after foreclosure (for those in recourse states, at least).
But I still don’t understand your “cordoning off” suggestion. What would that really entail? Can you elaborate?
He paid $1.4 million in May 2000 so current Zillow price of $1.6 million isn’t too bad. Zillow says it was “worth” $1.8 million in late 2007/early 2008.
He got married late - to a widow - when both were in their mid-40’s. Both owned houses on their own so they sold them and put the cash into the Los Altos place. I think it’s mostly paid off. He’s worked at Lockheed since the mid-1970’s and is about the only person in my cohort that has an honest-to-god pension coming. He’s able to retire now and draw $80K+ a year forever.
“He’s able to retire now and draw $80K+ a year forever.”
Or he may draw $80K+ a year only until the PBGC takes over his pension, and then he might be $15-20K/yr.
A pension isn’t what it used to be, depending on the company’s health, prospects, and willingness to screw over their retireees.
Very good point Prime -is-Contained . Nobody is safe from
being screwed over now . Really ,can a retired person set up any obligations with the knowledge that they might have their income cut at any time ?
“Rich” to the NYT and obama means anyone earning over $40,000 with exceptions to all public union workers (who deserve every penny they get).
But if you just work a little harder, maybe you’ll earn $40k/yr and be rich to sez the pandering gop’er.
2, no it is $250,000.
But I feel screwed all the time when I get my paycheck.
“when sellers received little or no interest in their home at a given price, they are holding steadfast on the price”
These people are not “sellers”. They are wishful thinkers.
They are wishful thinkers.
I like the term “future bankrupt home sellers” because they are not going to give the house away…
“Paula Milton, who has a home in Canton, said she had a similar experience. She and her husband bought their home in 2006 as an investment. ‘We expected it would have a good bit of equity,’ she said. ‘It went the opposite way and we’re underwater $35,000.’”
“Her immediate solution to avoid foreclosure was to find a credit card and take out the cash needed to satisfy Wells Fargo. Mrs. Milton is left with a bad taste for the ‘change’ promised in Obama’s campaign. ‘We’re good people. There are people going bankrupt and getting out of all of it. There’s got to be something for us,’ she said.”
Hmmmm….I’m sure I must have an investment that’s lost $35k in value since 2006. I expected it would have a ‘good bit of equity’ by now, too. SO….where’s MY bailout?
“Built on the basis of a dream” + “A dream is a wish your heart makes” = “Baloon payment angioplasty.”
Nice, Jim…
That reminds me of one of my favorite Simpsons quotes:
Homer: “And that’s it right?”
Salesman: “Yup, oh then after your final monthly payment there’s
the CBP, or Crippling Balloon Payment.”
Homer: “Yeah, but that’s not for a while, right?”
Salesman: “Right!”
I noted above that we were on vacation this week. We are in the Mid-South visiting the in-laws. To add insult to injury, our security company called and said the back door alarm and motion detectors were going off. Some a$$hole decided to kick the back door down and help himself. Looks like he mainly got one nice necklace of my wife’s and some cheap costume jewelry. Dropped the diamond tennis bracelet that she forgot to bring with her - it was worth big bucks - when the alarm scared him.
We have a dog who would bark and cause a racket on normal days, but with us out of town for the week, she is at the kennel. Kids are freaked out about going home, as is Mrs. Hotty Toddy).
We’ll see what else is missing on Saturday. A good friend secured the door for us and is keeping an eye on the house till tomorrow.
Has anyone tried security cameras? Our neighborhood has had an increasing amount of smash and grabs as unemployment in bordering areas has continued to rise. Not sure how to combat this. People have no fear of getting caught, or shot, anymore. Suggestions?
Hot:
We cat sit when people are out of town like you …..we go into their homes feed play with the kitties…and I am amazed at how many laptops, hard drives and other valuables are just laying around in full view..eg prescription pills. My Landlord told me when he goes to his other house locks up all the wife’s jewelry and other valuable stuff in his safe.