They’ve Lost Faith In What They Knew
It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “The end of federal tax credits may have cooled real estate sales in cities across the nation — but not in the District, at least not when it comes to condos. ‘The demand is just too high and the supply too low. Developers are pursuing deals for conversion,’ said Mark Wellborn, editor-in-chief of an online guide to purchasing homes and condos in the D.C. area. ‘Buyers are prone to think that regardless of how good something is, something better is just around the corner. In the D.C. market, if something good comes along, and you don’t jump on it, it will be gone before you have the chance to reconsider.’”
“Lined up, camping out, thousands of homeowners from accross the nation are looking for relief at this housing fair in Washington. Delvenus Sanders from Bowie, Maryland is one of them. Sanders: ‘We’ve been struggling…we’re juggling other bills around to kind of get that paid. but it’s getting to a point where we can’t continue to do that. And we want to get help now before we get too far behind and end up losing our house.’”
“About one quarter of all real estate transactions in Park City involve distressed properties. The median sale price for a home in Park City proper is now $1,125,000 down 37 percent. The developments near the ski resort saw buyers who put deposits down during the boom years but were reliant on bank financing that didn’t come after the recession started. The area has also seen the worst cases of foreclosure because people bought overvalued property and went ‘underwater’ on the mortgages quickly, said Park City Board of Realtors president Mark Seltenrich.”
“This kind of unwise buying was widespread because Park City real estate was so hot that people bought property simply because they could. ‘At the very height of the market, the value of a property was that it was for sale…people wanted to get in at all costs,’ he said.”
“Home foreclosure activity has skyrocketed in Santa Fe County in the first half of 2010, according to RealtyTrac. Foreclosures are especially affecting higher-end properties as just six $1 million-plus homes have been selling each month in the county. For instance, said Peter Kahn, a broker who last summer predicted a foreclosure wave in Santa Fe, there was a $1.2 million home in Las Campanas that needs about $100,000 of work but now has a price tag of $479,000. ‘Last month, two homes sold in Las Campanas and there are 140 on the market,’ he added.”
“Jason Miller, of Milan Realty, said he thinks the high-end market is in worse shape than many realize, and is not close to recovering. He also said that the many builders, unable to sell their castles, are renting them, instead. This has created a ’shadow market’ that is not being counted, but will soon hit the market, further depressing prices.”
“Miller said that some areas, such as Ravenna and Colorado Country Club, ‘are looking at 60 percent haircuts from their peak. When sellers do come down in price on the higher end, it will compress prices down the food chain. When a $1.3 million home sells for $1 million, the old $1 million homes needs to drop to $800,000 to compensate.’”
“Nearly three years after construction liens brought progress at Hayden’s Lake Village subdivision to an abrupt halt, 72 building lots on the town’s south side are back on the market for a combined $2 million. Outgoing Hayden Town Manager Russ Martin said when the project came apart, it was sudden and bewildering. ‘During a three-week period in the summer of ’07, the town went, ‘What happened?’ and ‘Where did it go?’ Martin said.”
“Nearly one-third of all home sales on the Lane County marketplace this spring were either short sales or foreclosures, according to RealtyTrac. The share of distressed sales is consistent at the state and national levels. ‘We’ve never had this many foreclosures at one time,’ said Fred Chamberlin, mortgage broker at the Alpine Mortgage Planning Eugene office. ‘It’s a whole different ball game. And needless to say it’s skewing the market.’”
“Home foreclosures in Honolulu shot up more than 70 percent during the first half of this year. ‘Those numbers are consistent with what we’re seeing in our office,’ said local foreclosure attorney Chris Goodwin. ‘We’re seeing no signs of stabilization in the number of foreclosure based on our experience.’”
“Across the state, there were 35,217 foreclosures filed in the first six months of 2010. Olin Davis, chief credit officer for East Carolina Bank that operates in 13 counties in Eastern North Carolina, said he’s seen increases in foreclosure filings across the region that followed ‘exponential growth’ in real estate investment during a five-year period starting in 2000. ‘A lot of people wanted to have second homes on the water, or have an investment property,’ he said. ‘They felt like if I’m on the river, on the sound, on the beach, no matter what happens to the economy, my real estate value would never decline.’”
“But after the housing bubble burst, some investors ‘just didn’t have the wherewithal to continue,’ he said, and they walked away from their investments.”
“Mohammad Valadan’s was the sixth foreclosure suit to hit a unit owner in 1620 S. Michigan this year, Circuit Court of Cook County records show. The seventh foreclosed on a mortgage taken out by Romelia Montoya, a Cicero resident. As was the ninth. Montoya said she closed on two units in 1620 S. Michigan in 2007, hoping to eventually resell them. She soon had them rented out. Even when both were occupied — the tenants were gone by October 2009 — the finances were difficult. The tenants’ combined rent of $2,400 didn’t cover her two mortgages, which ran to approximately $3,600 each month.”
“‘The plan was to refinance and that didn’t happen, and my cash reserves went away,’ Montoya said. The economic crisis and struggles of the housing market blindsided her. ‘For years you figured the bottom’s going to drop, the bottom’s going to drop and it never did … and then it dropped,’ Montoya said.”
“Some owners, court records show, seem to have given up paying their mortgages almost immediately after taking out loans. A man who in September 2007 had taken out a loan valued at $284,800 for a condo in 1720 S. Michigan had paid off less than $300 on the principal by November 2009. Another buyer in the same building had not paid a single cent toward his $326,619 mortgage 13 months after the mortgage was recorded.”
“Valadan, who said he has hired an assistant to bargain with his lender, is still hoping for the best. In spite of the problems he has experienced with his South Loop unit, the property remained, he said, ‘a good investment.’”
“Government cash didn’t help John Foley and Cindy Case sell their house before the federal home buyer’s tax credit expired at the end of April, so the couple…hosted a backyard party with food and an open bar, invited the neighbors and professional contractors — in case potential buyers had questions about remodeling. To top it off, they’re offering their own $8,000 rebate on the $675,000 home. But in the hour and a half that a reporter attended the two-hour party, no prospective buyers showed.”
“Foley, a professional marketer, attributes the pullback on incentives to an all-out surrender. ‘Everybody has had a hard time selling,’ he said. ‘It doesn’t mean you stop. It’s almost as if people, including sellers and Realtors, have given up. They’ve lost faith in what they knew.’”
“How many homeowners have been sitting on the sidelines during the housing downturn, waiting for massive price plunges to pass? Over the past year, there’s been plenty of speculation about if and when banks will begin to list more foreclosed homes for sale. But these sidelined sellers represent another potential source of ’shadow’ inventory.”
“Karen Wiese decided to hold off on selling the six-bedroom home in suburban Sacramento, Calif., that her husband built five years ago after prices first softened. The home wasn’t getting any offers at the $1.1 million asking price, so she and her husband, a homebuilder, took it off the market and decided to live there for two years. They figured the market would recover quickly. Last week, she put the home on the market for $639,000. ‘We don’t even know if we’ll get a looker,’ says Ms. Wiese.”
“Jose Vega of Pittsburg has seen the foreclosure crisis up close from three different perspectives. He gave 7 On Your Side a unique glimpse on the personal toll the housing meltdown is taking. Vega is a Bay Area realtor. He first saw the foreclosure crisis through the eyes of his clients and then his children. One day he found his daughter crying. Many of his children’s friends were moving away in the middle of the night, their parents so embarrassed by foreclosure they could not bear to say goodbye.”
“Vega now finds himself having to prepare his 6-year-old and 9-year-old children to losing their house in Pittsburg. Vega says he no longer fears losing his home because he says they can take his house, but not his home. ‘See, that’s different. That’s mine. I make my home. My wife and my children and me together make a home. They can’t take that from us,’ he says.”
“I like the Case Shiller report and I am happy that they compile it, but it looks backwards, and I’m interested in looking forward,” Niederman said. “Traffic through homes is a leading indicator and one we are following closely.”
The number of ppl looking at homes is a leading indicator with respect to where the market is headed headed? I might understand some excitement about increased contracts v. closings as a leading indicator, but ppl looking? Give me a break.
In the same article: “There is far more money available for so-called jumbo loans – that is, mortgages above $417,000 – and at much lower rates. A Wells Fargo banker last week addressed Kentwood brokers and said that jumbo rates now are available at 5 percent for qualified buyers, compared with 6.125 percent a year earlier. On a million-dollar mortgage, that translates to a savings in principal and interest of about $720 a month. If a person owned the homes for seven years, which in the past was considered the typical holding period for a home, that saves a buyer more than $60,000 a year. “That provides a real incentive for someone to buy,” Niederman said. “And that is $60,000 that is tax free. If you were thinking of buying a home in the next year or two, and you can afford it, it probably makes sense to buy now to take advantage of depressed home prices and low rates.””
All that savings with a 1.125 drop? Hmmmm. If you want to play this math game, what happens to the expected sales price when during that 7 year period (which is actually closer to 5 - but screw facts) when interest rates rise 3% plus to get closer to historic norms. You better love the home, your spouse and your secure job, cause you just might end living there for a very long time.
I think he meant a savings of $60k over the 7 years, not per year. One would have to hope they were smart enough to lock into a fixed rate then and not a variable, right?
Even if they lock in, the problem still lies in the new buyer pool. It’s only worth what the then current buyer pool is willing (or able) to pay. Low rates are good if you do not move. If you do move it creates issues down the road if you are trying to sell in a high interest rate environment. I do not think they sell assumable mortgages anymore, at least it is not standard practice.
…but ppl looking?….
Next thing you know the “leading indicator” will
be cars the slow down to read the For Sale sign.
No, I think the leading indicator will be tubes of cookie dough sold for making that ‘homey’ smell.
“…It’s almost as if people, including sellers and Realtors, have given up. They’ve lost faith in what they knew.”
The sweet sweet “tulip” nectar:
American “earned wealth” = The single transaction / deposit.
Qualifications & Requirements (minimum):
A PROFESSIONAL license & high I.Q. & a shiny car…(exhibiting uncompromising business ETHICS is deal closer)
Hwy….Any word from Ahansen ??
I bumped into a younger RE agent from Madison, WI while at lunch in my local watering hole yesterday. She was here on personal business and I let her talk.
Evidently she made some nice EZ money during the boom but things are not going so good now. She stated that her outfit has tons of listings but she isn’t making sales or moving anything especially with the higher priced homes and she poured out story her finanical and recent divorce woes.
Said she’s been spending time and effort putting up signs, contracting some video home tours for the internet and doing all the busy work in her power to keep her current listing clients happy.
I mentioned that RE agents still make money and sales whether the market is going up or down. Not now she says, it appears that the tax incentives have stolen forward sales on lower end and good inventory and she’s stuck with junk and high priced POS that nobody can move. Then, while thinking, she went into kind of a daze and said “I’ve got to make a sale..I’ve got to make a sale.”
She went on to say that she had no education, was used to the big money and she had a 7 year old boy. It appeared that she was scared and stressed about her RE future.
“How I going to raise a 7 year old boy if I have to take a $10 an hour job?”
She gave me her business card with her cell number.
This young lady was very well dressed, pretty and quite intelligent and I said to myself, this gal may not make 100k this year but I seriously doubt if this one is going to starve.
There ARE strip clubs in Madison, so she’ll not starve.
They need to stop taking listings at ‘wishing prices’.
During the boom they strongarmed the buyers. Now they need to strongarm the sellers.
sfbb,
And for the life of me ( I just can’t feature that? ) I mean ( oh, not the stripping part ) but isn’t it just natural? They certainly had no qualms about beating BUYERS to death w/ bidding war tactics!?
Why is NAR so timid about turning the tables on sellers? If you’re starving to death ( and basically a mercinary ANY way ) what’s the diff?
Because a lot of agents also own real estate?
Seriously, if you take the TV shows at face value, the first rule of a good drug dealer is never to sniff/smoke/shoot up/use the merchandise. I’d think the same thing should apply to any high risk enterprise where lots of sales are essential to making money. Don’t become dependent on owning the stuff you are supposed to be selling.
Exactly DinOr. This issue haunts me every time I hear UHS belaboring their “dead” market. The are completely disconnected from the fact that they’d have loads of transactions if prices were much lower.
sfbubblebuyer…I know all that stuff!
I also know never to argue or be mean to a girl. Especially a pretty one. If you’re nice to them, maybe they’ll bake you some cookies someday.
I have her cell number, a fairly fast car and I’ve been known to drift through the Madison area on occassion. I also know what she booze she likes and who knows, maybe a steak could save this poor, misguided girl’s life sometime.
Just make sure you have your track shoes on if her kid starts calling you ‘daddy’.
This young lady was very well dressed, pretty and quite intelligent
But did she have a nice rack?
Yeah…lets hope Obahhma care stops the unnecessary insurance paid breast reductions…like about 95% of them.
‘A lot of people wanted to have second homes on the water, or have an investment property,’ he said. ‘They felt like if I’m on the river, on the sound, on the beach, no matter what happens to the economy, my real estate value would never decline.’”
The insurance rates in coastal North Carolina have begun to climb and they will climb for years. Throw in the large windstorm deductibles of 3% or 5% and the next storm will cause many, many abandoned properties. All these properties will need emergency maintenance or they will just rot away in the moisture and the sun.
And the Fed’s will have to raise the flood rates and raise the deductible on that. And where is the money going to come from to put sand back on the beaches. All the nonsense is starting to end.
As John Dean once said to Richard Nixon, “It just had to stop.”
“They felt like if I’m on the river, on the sound, on the beach, no matter what happens to the economy, my real estate value would never decline.” That makes no sense. I assume there was already a waterfront premium built in. The beta on discretionary/luxury purchases should be higher in changing economic times, not lower.
insurance rates in coastal North Carolina have begun to climb and they will climb for years. Throw in the large windstorm deductibles of 3% or 5% ??
And the cost of Home ownership continues to rise…Our utility bills here are going through the roof…It was costing me $90. per month for a vacant rental…
“And the cost of Home ownership continues to rise…Our utility bills here are going through the roof…It was costing me $90. per month for a vacant rental…”
Don’t forget the parcel taxes that are being added on to property tax bills…whatever “savings” have been realized from lower assessments are going out the window with 5 year, 10 year add ons for this, that & the other.
“All these properties will need emergency maintenance or they will just rot away in the moisture and the sun.”
So many people don’t realize how salt literally will eat a house away. Imagine what salt used in winters does to cars. Translate that to houses and you get the picture.
Vega says he no longer fears losing his home because he says they can take his house, but not his home. ‘See, that’s different. That’s mine. I make my home. My wife and my children and me together make a home. They can’t take that from us,’
Why does this sound so queer coming from the mouth of an agent? Maybe because the agents told so many renters over the years that they could/would not have a “home” until they bought?
A moment of lucidity and honesty when looking down the barrel….. and that’s what it takes for most people. The key is holding onto that moment when things begin to look better.
edge,
Notice he is also starting his own “interfaith” church and become something of an activist. Seems Chase offered… him a mod but evidently it wasn’t to his liking?
Anyone here know what Median is in Pittsburg, CA? Just curious.
TV articles can be hard to follow, but I think the loan mod is in question.
‘Many of his children’s friends were moving away in the middle of the night, their parents so embarrassed by foreclosure they could not bear to say goodbye’
As I’ve been pointing out, yes some FBs live in the place for years without paying, but the great majority take off and the house sits there for months/years.
Come to think of it, the last place we owned was one of those — an East Bay condo, in fact. By all evidence, it sat vacant and in dilapidated condition for some time until someone got serious about selling it and fixed it up to livable condition just before we bought it.
know what Median is in Pittsburg, CA?
Not sure really but I suspect that area is getting hammered with forclosures…
Pittsburg CA is one of those “fringe commute” towns on the edge of the SF bay area. It’s up the river from already-declared-bankruptcy Vallejo almost to where-the-heck-is-Antioch?
DennisN,
Our in-laws lived there back in the 80’s ( prior to moving to Ft. Bragg ) and… I don’t recall their referring to it ‘fondly’?
It a terrible way to live. I know people who commute to the bay area from those cities and routinely spend 3 hours a day in the car, and 4-5 on a bad traffic day.
What’s worse is that after 15+ years of just 10 hrs. a week commuting to PDX and back ( I figure I could have at least had a Masters )
The human toll.
I just checked the map….Antioch is so far up the river that it’s halfway from SF to Sacramento.
Antioch is billed as a ‘commuter town’ but I seriously question the sanity of anyone who believes that.
I DO know people who manage longish commutes on the trains, and do work on the way in and out on their laptops, so their ‘in the office’ day is about 7 hours, with an hour of commute work on either side.
Zillow says average price in Pittsburg was $470K in 2006 and is now down to $180K. Ouch.
Pittsburg / Antioch CA is the new ghetto. Lots of stuff there got rented to section 8, and once you get enough of that in a neighborhood then you reach a tipping point.
once you get enough of that in a neighborhood then you reach a tipping point ??
Precisely….A friend & I have talked about this in one particular location in Campbell Ca…There are a few streets of apartments that have been completely taken over….If you could somehow snap your fingers and vacate the entire area the fair market rent giving its great location would go up by 50%…
Dave,
You must mean those few blocks on Union Avenue between the Pruneyard and Bascom Ave.
They figure on crime reports and have for many years.
I think Pittsburg is out in the sticks. What an awful commute, and a crappy community. Brentwood, Anioch, Pittsburg are all far and full of foreclosures or displaced gang bangers. Sadly, with the “boom” even towns that were crappy on paper became overpriced.
I had to represent my company in a small claims case in Pittsburg a few years ago. It’s a dump and it’s 2 hours from anywhere you’d actually want to be. Makes Oakland look good in comparison.
“Jose Vega of Pittsburg has seen the foreclosure crisis up close from three different perspectives.”
Three strikes and you’re out.
“…Vega says he no longer fears losing his home because he says they can take his house, but not his home.”
Sounds like he is well-prepared for a future stint as a renter.
I wouldn’t rent to him.
‘Some owners, court records show, seem to have given up paying their mortgages almost immediately after taking out loans. A man who in September 2007 had taken out a loan valued at $284,800 for a condo in 1720 S. Michigan had paid off less than $300 on the principal by November 2009. Another buyer in the same building had not paid a single cent toward his $326,619 mortgage 13 months after the mortgage was recorded’
Perhaps our politicians can devise a loan modification incentive for these folks?
I remember one of the biggest HS moments in this whole thing was when ‘first payment defaults’ exploded. IIRC it happened to Countrywide initially.
Ben,
What makes that especially interesting is the timing of that event. In retrospect ( Sept. 2007 didn’t look all that freaking bad? ) Sure, the Credit Crunch was now well upon us.., but that shouldn’t have colored the opinions or actions of a borrower that just GOT a loan!
I’m… not sure how to feel about any of that? They don’t qualify as bottom feeders but can’t exactly describe them as momentum players either. Then again, some ppl take credit simply b/c it was offered. Anyone w/ insight as to what their possible motivation might be please feel free to expound on that.
Weren’t/aren’t most of the first payment/no payment defaults straw buyers for people repeatedly flipping the same large pile of properties back and forth taking money out of the bank each time until the music stopped?
I can’t imagine banks still falling for that in large quantities in 2009, but apparently they did.
sfbb,
Certainly Ben has documented cases of that happening and I believe they were particularly -acute- where condoze were involved.
I just don’t think it can account for all of it though by any stretch? Then again, there were still ppl doing margin trades in their ETrade acct. in late 2000! My guess is that a good many of them ( obviously ) couldn’t face the music and didn’t want The Game to end? If only more of you just believed!
It sounds like they are basing their conclusion on the difference between initial balance and default balance. The conclusion is not valid.
Remember, people who paid timely for years on I/O mortgages did not pay down a cent of principal; that’s not the same as not paying on the mortgage at all—e.g. first payment defaults.
About that $1.2 mil, now $479K house in Santa Fe - it needs $100K in repairs????? What happened - the pipes burst? A LOT of pipes? Extremely bad construction that is falling apart? It just strikes me as odd that any house that someone I suppose at one point bought for $1.2 mil would need that expensive/extensive repair work.
I do a little rehab work and I think it probably can be chalked up to this; it’s expensive to fix what wasn’t done right in the first place. And who’s going to take that on when this is the case:
‘Last month, two homes sold in Las Campanas and there are 140 on the market’
That is 5.8 years of inventory. If the shadow inventory is twice what is listed in the MSL, then make that 17.5 years of inventory.
Watch an episode of Holmes on Homes. I’d think the costs go up rapidly if you have to rip everything back down to studs, re-do all the vapor barriers, fix all the wiring, add insulation where none was included, etc.
A little research on this Las Campanas HB poster child shows that people living there had - at least in late 2007 - major complaints of noise as a result of Santa Fe airport flight patterns in that area. I’m guessing it is still annoying the buyers who so longed for the wide open spaces, peace and quiet, all that good stuff.
Their website sure looks purty. Snark.
The tenants’ combined rent of $2,400 didn’t cover her two mortgages, which ran to approximately $3,600 each month.”
OK, people, first rule of investing…
If it’s not positive, it’s NOT an investment.
You mean.., Cash Flow ‘positive’? We’ll have none of that!
Right, we were paying $850 a month ( suburban Portland, OR ) for a lugjery upscale condo. When I worked downtown I paid around $400 a mo. to park my CAR! ( So it looked like a good deal to me? )
The downside of tape-worming your LL’s a-hole is that eventually you kill the ‘host’. Ask me how I ‘know’ that?
Oh and just btw ( in a -major- step toward Bubble Anger recovery ) I was cleaning out a few file cabinets in the office and was finally able to part w/ the news clippings and regulatory agency findings on our local FAILED banker.
For ‘me’ it was a genuine milestone. Filled about 1/4th of our recycling bin though?
Geez I can park in manhattan for less then that and get an unlimited monthly metrocard too……..even with the 18+% parking tax added.
Of course not in midtown or where NYCboy lives.
“To top it off, they’re offering their own $8,000 rebate on the $675,000 home.”
This just made my mind reel.
Let’s assume, hypothetically, that the buyer was paying cash. Nobody would take this deal. Your house would be valued at $8,000 too high, so you’ll be overpaying on property tax, and the seller would have more capital gains to report. They buyer, if this transaction were done legally, may have to pay income tax on that $8,00.
If the buyer has a mortgage, then the bank is, one way or another, financing the seller’s payback. I’m sure the mortgage agreement prohibits this. And the buyer will paying back this $8,000 with a 30-year loan and ultimately be paying $20,000 or so for it.
It looks like the US has made the decision to perish as a nation rather than fix its insane fixation on keeping real estate unaffordably high and on bailing out the dickheads who participated in the bubble.