August 15, 2010

Bits Bucket For August 15, 2010

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280 Comments »

Comment by Eddie
2010-08-15 06:33:00

The peasants continue to understand what is happening and are not buying the lies anymore. The “I strongly support the 9/11 mosque” speech should have him in the 30s soon enough.

Latest polls this week on The O’s approval

Gallup 43%
Rasmussen 46%
Fox News 43%

Comment by Rancher
2010-08-15 06:49:11

PANAMA CITY, Florida (Reuters) – President Barack Obama on Saturday backed off remarks that appeared to endorse a proposed Muslim cultural center near the site of the September 11, 2001, attacks in New York City, saying he only supported the organizers’ right to build it.

Kinda like trying to put the toothpaste back in the
tube…….shaking my head.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 08:44:45

I’m not happy about the mosque thing, however:

What American constitutional basis provides grounds for a US president be against the mosque?

What precedential basis of American law would be grounds for a US president or politician to be against the mosque?

Is not President Obama’s position on the mosque the position of a strict constitutional constructionalist?

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 09:06:49

What American constitutional basis provides grounds for a US president to be against the mosque?

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Comment by In Montana
2010-08-15 09:18:45

None, but as a leader he may express his opinion, which may have some moral suasion. It is natural to ask the president what he thinks of this or that, especially if it is somehow related to the old Twin Towers site. I don’t think anyone’s expecting him to pull some legal strings.

Perhaps you’ve been out of the country too long.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 09:52:28

Perhaps you’ve been out of the country too long.

Perhaps you should live abroad for awhile. It gives one an important education in contrasting systems of government, economies and cultural values.

And I have not “lost touch” with America as you tried to imply to discredit my constitutional point of view on this subject.

I have spent 4 of the past 10 months in the USA.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-08-15 11:59:36

Maybe it’s because I don’t develop my opinions from what I see on Fox News, but he was making the point that there was no legal justification for banning the construction.

Now if only Muslims would understand that building a mosque in that particular location is not good public relations.

But just like, abortion, gay marriage, and gays in the military, it’s not about doing the right thing, it’s about rubbing other people’s noses in your “rights”.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 12:24:55

+ 1, X

 
Comment by mikey
2010-08-15 13:53:41

Have you noticed how some Americans LOVE to turn some incidents, symbols, tragedy and death into their own personal Shrines, Causes and even their Life’ work ?

I can see the immediate family or friends leaving a few flowers or even a Teddy Bear near a highway mile marker or a building but…sheesh…people.

Next thing it’s on Faux News, we have a pilgrimage scheduled, they’re knee deep in roses from Argentina and people are crying for a Consitutional Ammendment banning a curve in the road or death to someone on life support.

Meanwhile, other great incidents, tragedies, deaths or causes are completely lost, forgotten or ignored?

Where is my National Shrine to the Great American “Freedom Fry ?”

Anyone seen my Chinese damaged EP-3 spyplane that we almost went to war over in the Smithsonian Museum?

Where are the marches in Rememberance for those Once Mighty Important little lapel flags ?

Where are the flowers form Argentina at the base of that long granite wall with the list of the WMD’s that almost ate the World?

How soon we forget, Oh fickle MSM, spinmisters and demi-god builders..How soon we forget !!

Hey wait…some muslim guys want to build a mosque near ground zero. Let’s unite the nation and stop that $hit.

You’re suffering from Shrine and Cause PTSD and disassociating from reality America … Get a life and move on.

Ooops!…did he say Move On ?…better organize an extra protest march for that, it’s been a slow summer.

Don’t cry for me Argentina, it’s not that I’m insensitive, it’s just that we’re back in the All American Shrine and Cause business AGAIN !!

:)

 
Comment by nickpapageorgio
2010-08-15 14:25:49

I like Greg Gutfeld’s idea of building a gay bar right next door to the mosque.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2010-08-15 17:29:22

an a lesbian one on the other side …with a big sign NO Burkas allowed!

 
Comment by exeter
2010-08-15 17:41:44

It’s good to see your a vocal supporter of gay rights. It’s about time you’ve seen the error in your thinking.

 
Comment by pismoclam
2010-08-15 18:23:48

Greg or one of his guests sugessted a name - ‘The Flaming Camel’ ! Right on. Barney Frank and his buddies could hang out there. hahaha

 
Comment by nickpapageorgio
2010-08-15 23:46:41

“It’s good to see your a vocal supporter of gay rights.”

I don’t know how I got mixed in with the moral majority exeter. I am a gambler, a drinker and an avid Maiden fan. Just not a big fan of communists…gay or straight.

 
Comment by exeter
2010-08-16 05:15:57

Those who frequent houses of worship are communist now?

It’s time to lay off the sauce that you admittedly indulge in.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2010-08-16 09:13:37

IIUC, there are 3 gay bars surrounding the mosque currently existing at that site.

 
Comment by nickpapageorgio
2010-08-16 12:39:08

“you admittedly indulge in”

In moderation of course.

 
Comment by exeter
2010-08-16 14:31:49

Those who frequent houses of worship are communist now?

 
Comment by nickpapageorgio
2010-08-16 17:20:22

No, my anti communist statement reflected my broader political views…not really related to the topic at hand. Sorry.

But, I will say there does seem to be an incestuous relationship between the religious left (collective salvationists) and American communists. I also have a feeling the global communists are at best sypathetic to and at worst directly supporting some Radical Islamic groups such as Hamas.

 
Comment by exeter
2010-08-17 06:24:43

But, I will say there does seem to be an incestuous relationship between the religious right (collective authoritarians) and American corporatists. I also have a feeling the global ccorporatists are at best sypathetic to and at worst directly supporting some Radical Islamic groups such as Hamas.

See how that works?

Now stay on topic.

 
 
 
Comment by GH
2010-08-15 09:26:44

Obama COULD have expressed his concern - mirroring the concern of most Americans about the lack of sensitivity in placing a large mosque around the corner from the twin towers site (even though the constitution strictly permits it) rather than coming out in support of it.

This is not about religious freedom, but about common sense and respect.

Enough said!

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 09:44:36

This is not about religious freedom, but about common sense and respect.

Respect for the constitution right?

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Comment by GH
2010-08-15 20:57:20

Disrespect those that lost their lives. Our constitution DOES allow disrespect. Why not build a Mosque on the twin towers site?

 
Comment by GH
2010-08-15 21:35:30

I think more to the point,no one here is suggesting the land owners not build a mosque if that is what they desire, or for that matter if another nearby land owner builds a smelly pork barbecue and so on.

The issue is not the constitution, but the lack of sensitivity to those that lost thier lives on 09/11/2001 to a group of islamic terrorists. I certainly did not expect our president to express ANY other view if he had one at all. I do not believe these are really the values we cherish in America.

I am also curious WHO these land owners are and how long they have held this land. It would not surpirse me at all if this was not being funded by Bin Ladens people behind the scenes just to twist the knife!

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-08-15 11:59:06

So Constitutional freedoms are OK only insofar as they do not offend “common sense and respect.” Or do not show a “lack of sensitivity.”

Our political elites and their MSM propagandists have conditioned you well.

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Comment by varelse
2010-08-15 12:53:44

I think the point some people are missing is that you can be against the building of the mosque while still aknowledging the property owner’s legal and constitutional right to build it there. To criticize the decision to build it there is not to say we should take away their right to do so.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-08-15 15:30:48

Well said. Personally, I find building a mosque at that site to be appallingly inappropriate and polarizing. However, respect for propery rights is one of the most fundamental, and endangered, liberties we nominally still have. We would all be better served if the President and other senior government officials kept their opinions on the matter to themselves.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 20:29:45

“We would all be better served if the President and other senior government officials kept their opinions on the matter to themselves.”

The President would be better served if the President and other senior government officials kept their opinions on the matter to themselves. Is the guy trying to commit political suicide?

 
 
 
Comment by CrackerJim
2010-08-15 16:32:47

I don’t think President Obama should have commented in any way on this issue. His opinion is not required and it does no good. His remarks only served to create polarization which may have been his motive.

Comment by CoSpgs4
2010-08-15 17:18:58

That is correct, CrackerJim.

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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 18:50:03

I don’t think President Obama should have commented in any way on this issue.

Of course he should comment on this issue. He’s the President of the United States who is sworn to uphold the constitution regardless of the situation or the fact that he’s a Christian, a neo-liberal Democrat or a slick politician. Deal with it. He won. He will comment.

This was a sensitive issue covering, religion, deaths, destruction, tragedy, war, the constitution and politics and the President shouldn’t comment on it?

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 20:32:12

“…the President shouldn’t comment on it?”

We’ll see how his poll numbers shape up going forward…

 
 
 
 
Comment by arizonadude
2010-08-15 06:57:08

I saw larry king friday night and he had willie nelson.Willie said he still wonders how those buildings at ground zero fell from the plane crash alone.

Comment by Eddie
2010-08-15 07:01:13

After you smoke that much pot your brain doesn’t work too well anymore. I think living in Austin for an extended period of time has the same effect.

Comment by Ben Jones
2010-08-15 08:37:28

’smoke that much pot your brain doesn’t work… living in Austin’

You don’t have to have an opinion on the subject matter to recognize someone trying to attack the messenger. I recall that this blog was dismissed in a similar manner. We were called crazy, and just about every other name in the book. To this day, the idea of a housing bubble is ignored, to the detriment of public policy, IMO.

Back in college, I was ordered out of ‘free speech’ areas for handing out ‘unapproved’ leaflets. I’ve done long interviews with major news publications that editors killed and which never saw the light of day. So be it. But if one values freedom, public discourse, etc, tolerating views one doesn’t agree with is a small price to pay. I often find myself disagreeing with much of what is said here, but that’s the nature of a free society.

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Comment by In Montana
2010-08-15 09:21:47

Attacking the messenger? That implies the message is true, if unwelcome. I can see that about the housing bubble but about 9/11? Umm, no.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2010-08-15 11:06:03

‘Attacking the messenger? That implies the message is true’

No it doesn’t. What do statements about smoking pot and living in Austin have to do with September 11th 2001?

BTW Nelson lives in Dripping Springs, not Austin. It’s not even the same county. I lived in Hays county for many years, and even though its politics are dominated by Baptists, it is also one of the most tolerant places one could live. Pretty refreshing contrast if you ask me.

I lived in Austin for a while too, and it’s a very politically/socially vocal bunch. Although I disagreed with a lot of people who lived there, there was a common comfort in being able to speak freely. (Try that in much of the world and you might find yourself in prison). At the root of free speech is the idea that no one has the final say on what is truth and isn’t. I’ll take that over the alternative any day.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-08-15 12:05:56

From “V’s” unauthorized television address to the people of London living under a totalitarian dictatorship in the prophetic 2006 movie “V for Vendetta”:

“…Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn’t there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who’s to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you’re looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn’t be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense.”

 
Comment by varelse
2010-08-15 12:57:02

Ben, please do not insist on equating the HHB with 9/11 conspiracy theorists. It’s an analogy that does nobody any good.

We may all be crazy but us HBBers are crazy in a good way, 9/11 “truthers”, not so much. ;)

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 15:47:28

“At the root of free speech is the idea that no one has the final say on what is truth and isn’t. I’ll take that over the alternative any day.”

Are America’s national leaders on board with the notion that free speech is a basic constitutional right, and a fundamental ingredient in the democratic system of government for which the founding fathers of our country risked their lives, and which most Americans deeply cherish? When I hear the pronouncements out of the MSM megaphones wielded by the likes of Bernanke and Geithner, I have serious doubts that our basic freedoms are safe from demagoguery.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2010-08-15 16:28:29

‘do not insist on equating the HHB with 9/11 conspiracy theorists’

That’s not what I did, and I’d appreciate it if you don’t try to put words in my mouth. It goes something like this; I may not like what you say, but I’ll defend your right to say it. Is that clear enough?

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2010-08-16 04:06:44

You are a good man Ben…..I had a beautiful view of the towers from my living room window in queens, and i was out on the hwy taking pictures as it was burning and falling….

I still get real sad when i look at the pictures i took.

Almost 9 years and we have really started to lock down America…I’m sick and tired of announcements on the subway that large bags and backpacks can be searched by police…and that we have treated our citizens like terrorists and refuse to admit racial and ethic profiling really does work…

 
 
Comment by roger
2010-08-15 11:06:28

It could tax your memory also

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Comment by combotechie
2010-08-15 07:17:36

It wasn’t just the plane crashes, it was the intense heat of the fires fueled by fully-loaded aircraft fuel tanks that destroyed the structural integrity of buildings’ ferro-cemet skeleton.

At least that’s how I understand it. A few years ago a gasoline tanker truck wrecked and blew up under a freeway overpass in L.A. They had to shut down the freeway and replace the overpass even though it was still standing after the fires were put out because the intense heat destroyed the overpass’s internal strength and it couldn’t be trusted to carry traffic.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-08-15 08:26:49

Same thing happened on I-80 in New Jersey a few years before I lived there. The crash of a tanker truck or dump truck was so fiery it destroyed a lot of the surrounding structure of the freeway - cement, rebar, and whatever else. Even strong material loses its strength after it takes a severe enough amount of stress that it was not designed to take.

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Comment by DennisN
2010-08-15 08:53:45

Same thing happened in Oakland a year or so ago: a dumb driver went through a curve on an overpass too fast and dumped his rig full of gasoline. The fire damage required rebuilding the overpass.

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Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2010-08-15 09:29:43

I’ll give you the short version, then i really need to get some work done today:

The towers were built as an innovative structural system, removing all the inner columns typically found in high-rise construction, and placing more columns on the exterior. The entire outside shell of the building was composed of structural support columns, interlaced with glass.

The flooring spanned from the outside columns to the interior elevator shafts. The spans were typically longer than previously constructed, another innovation. The concrete decks were supported by steel beams. The beams were attached to the columns and shafts by bolted angle-irons. When the floors were completed, the entire undersides were sprayed with adhesive fire-retardant foam. It was a standard practice at the time.

When the planes impacted the buildings, the impact that did not destroy the exterior support columns, created substantial damage to the surrounding fire-retardant (shock and vibration).
Recovered pieces showed bare metal where the foam was knocked away.
Steel loses 50% of its strength at about 800 degrees. At 1100 it’s gone. The raging fire below the remaining upper floors weakened the support structures causing the floors to sag and the connections to the walls and support columns gave way. Once a single floor collapsed onto the remaining lower floors, the whole system simply pancaked one atop the other till there was nothing left but a pile of debris.
This is not a mystery. It’s just a dynamic failure caused by excessive heat.
I have seen demonstrations by supposedly educated engineers trying to claim this type of collapse is not possible. The models they used do not in any way replicate the type of construction used here. I can debunk most of them.
Personally, I watched the buildings ablaze from my office, which had a television in the conference room. I was surprised they stood up as long as they did, and that the upper floors didn’t collapse soon after their lower support structure was removed. Buildings are not designed for aircraft impact.

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Comment by exeter
2010-08-15 11:38:20

The fireproofing isn’t foam. Historically it was asbestos and then went to a cementitious mixture with perlite that is sprayed on(more like splattered on) primary and secondary framework after asbestos was proven to be carcinogenic. Anyways, the $hit always falls off the steel over time.

Also, I’m fairly certain there was no W steel supporting the Q deck floor slabs in the WTC. They were all open web steel joists. No beams.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-08-15 12:11:49

I ran into some of the 9/11 “truthers” who seemed to gravitate to the Ron Paul 2008 campaign. Not a normal person in the bunch. They proclaim their commitment to “truth” but what they mean is anything that supposedly validates their conspiracy theories.

 
Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2010-08-15 13:19:45

I supported Ron Paul, and still do. He is the only candidate that stands for Constitution government and the destruction of the Federal Reserve ponzi scheme.
It’s gone on for nearly 100 years now. It’s time to kill the beast and restore sound money.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-08-15 15:46:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s_IUwwGq-A

I supported and still support RP as well. His “what if” speech to the Wall Street marionettes in Congress was brilliant. You’ll never hear anything like this come out of the mouths of the corporate-appointed, media-anointed Republicrat hollow men who the lobotomized sheeple once again fell for. How’s that hope & change working out for you?

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-08-15 19:44:44

I still like Ron Paul and his son Rand Paul. While there have been bits and pieces of stuff like “truthists” in his camp, that does not mean Austrian economics is automatically debunked. Same way with those who hate Obama. I can say one nice thing about Barack - he does not shove religion at us and that is extremely important to me.

See? I can also be non-partisan. We know (once again) who on this blog can say no wrong about Tweedle Dee and no right about Tweedle Dumber don’t we? Windbags.

 
 
 
Comment by pmseatac
2010-08-15 13:06:51

A 767 is a very large, heavy widebody airliner. The 767s used in the attack had just taken off so they had a lot of fuel. They hit the buildings at near-cruising speed, not approach speed.
What is actually amazing is that the buildings did not collapse immediately from the tremendous energy of the initial impacts and explosions. It is a testament to the solid design and construction of the buildings that they lasted as long as they did.

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2010-08-15 07:18:20

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”

If the gov’t can ban a mosque (or in this case a community center) then it can ban any church.

Careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Comment by SUGuy
2010-08-15 07:53:04

My mother was in the North Tower working on the 23rd floor. She got out fine but lost 8 of her co workers. From that experience and research I have discovered that Islam and peace do not go hand in hand.

Comment by skroodle
2010-08-15 08:31:00

Remember, nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition!

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Comment by In Colorado
2010-08-15 09:13:10

Correct, those of us who claim to be Christ’s followers have plenty of skeletons in our own closets.

Matthew 7:3-5

” 3″Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”

 
Comment by SUGuy
2010-08-15 09:33:50

Can someone give a real example of peace and Islam anywhere in the world for the last 500 years? Please don’t wrap yourself and hide behind the bible.

 
Comment by exeter
2010-08-15 10:32:51

I prefer the the US Constitution but thank you anyways.

 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-08-15 09:41:01

From that experience and research I have discovered that Islam…

Islam is the second-largest religion in the world and arguably the fastest growing religion in the world.

With about 1.57 billion Muslims comprising about 23% of the world’s population

“Ignore the poor” is a recruitment tool. Often followed by this human phenomena: “…find the poor and shape their education”

The notion of sustaining a Nation of “We the People, of the people, for the people, by the people” based on Liberty & Law is not in the “fundamentalist” foundations of ALL the earths Gov’t & humans.

“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

Emma Lazarus, 1883

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 20:25:45

“From that experience and research I have discovered that Islam and peace do not go hand in hand.”

The number of times I have agreed with Eddie on a blog post is vanishingly small, but I share his concern over the tacit message that is sent if America lets Islam gain a foothold at Ground Zero, where a small group of its adherents committed a great atrocity on American soil. I am sorry if I seem atypically prejudiced here, but I fail to be able to separate the actors from the religion which inspired them to act. Our government leaders seem to be in a state of collective denial over the religious and national identities of the 9/11 perpetrators.

Out of respect for 3000+ innocent people who died on September 11, 2001, I hope our nation’s citizenry raises their collective voices on this issue, as I would rather not have Ground Zero follow the course of certain Middle Eastern cites which serve as Islamic shrines for the battles they commemorate. Let’s not whitewash the history of what really happened in some kind of irrationally tolerant Democratic Grand Kabuki Dance.

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Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2010-08-15 08:25:41

RE-read your own sentence: CONGRESS shall make no law…..
Congress hasn’t. This Amendment was strictly placed upon Congress to prevent the establisment of a national religion, such as was done under the King.
Local and State governments can make any rules they want that don’t conflict with the constitution.
I would say the City of New York could place whatever restrictions on construction they would like, including the placement of “religious” buildings.

Comment by skroodle
2010-08-15 08:39:44

Funny how nobody is outrages about the Mosque they built inside the Pentagon. Its almost like the talking heads on the radio and tv are looking for some sorta wedge issue.

Navy imam Chaplain Abuhena M. Saifulislam lifted his voice to God as he called to prayer more than 100 Department of Defense employees Monday at a celebration of Ramadan at the Pentagon.

God is most great, sang the lieutenant commander and Islamic leader, in Arabic, as iftar — the end of the daily fast began.

Uniformed military personnel, civilians and family members faced Mecca and knelt on adorned prayer rugs chanting their prayers in quiet invocation to Allah.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2007/oct/3/pentagon-observes32muslim-holy-month/print/

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Comment by Carlos4
2010-08-15 12:15:00

Just another brick in the wall….

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-08-15 12:48:59

Its almost like the talking heads on the radio and tv are looking for some sorta wedge issue.

Ya think?

 
Comment by combotechie
2010-08-15 14:51:50

Wedge issue = an increase in ratings.

In the entertainment biz it’s all about ratings.

 
 
Comment by scdave
2010-08-15 08:41:49

Zoning laws and the General plan govern don’t they ?? If the zoning allows the mosque or church then it can be built…Basic tenant in private property rights…

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Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2010-08-15 09:05:08

Zoning laws and the General plan govern don’t they ??
Absolutely not.
Governments can change them, at will.
My house sits next to what was a vacate property owned by the City of Tampa when i built it. Shortly thereafter, the City traded that property with one the current owner had.
The owner decided to use the property for recycling concrete, requiring dumping and CRUSHING of concrete debris. You can’t imagine the noise and dust it creates.
I filed dozens of complaints with EPA, city council, building and zoning, etc. After 2 years, it was decided he did not have proper zoning. A temporary halt was ordered.
Long story short………city council voted to rezone the property adjacent to my house to HEAVY INDUSTRIAL, so that the owner could continue operations for which thousands of acres of property are currently zoned in East Hillsborough County. None of them located near a residence. They did make him put up an ugly steel panel fence. I have live with this nuisance for 10 years. The owner has gotten rich. I have paid the price.
He didn’t have the zoning he needed, but he got it.

 
Comment by scdave
2010-08-15 09:30:58

He didn’t have the zoning he needed, but he got it ??

Your just sustaining my point…The city could have shut the plant down but instead re-zoned it….It also a function of the “General Plan”…

Many properties are “zoned” inconsistent with the General Plan due to long standing zoning and General Plan amendments that occur over time…The General plan is the “Master” arbitrator…If you conform to the general plan its most likely a done deal…In your example, they may have not had the zoning but the General plan could have showed the area as “Heavy Industrial”…

I will offer you a example…A little grocery store & Bar across the street from me as a child.. Zoning allowed the store & bar..However, over time the general plan changed converting the entire area to residential..The long time owners of the store & bar wanted to remodel it extensively..The city said no because it was a “Non-Conforming use”…A existing zoning inconsistent with the general plan ..So, although the city could not revoke the long standing zoning they “could” limit its ability to grow or improve because it was a non-conforming use… Ultimately the owners tore it down and built multi family apartments that were consistent with the General plan..

 
Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2010-08-15 09:39:43

The general zoning was for low industrial/manufacturing. I knew that when i bought my property. the entire tract showing this zoning was VACANT. The local codes also require buffer zones, mitigation, and various protections of adjoining property owners when properties are put into conflicting uses.
None of this was done, and the City ignored it.
The usage was NOT in comformance with the general plan, but it was profitable for the owner.
City Councils are a great way to collect graft. Just a quiet little meeting before the public hearing. A luncheon to discuss the merits of the plan………….
In short, American governments are as corrupt as any on the planet. It’s just a matter of who gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2010-08-15 09:08:44

This Amendment was strictly placed upon Congress to prevent the establisment of a national religion

You conveniently overlooked the second part “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”

Just saying that if we allow the government to prohibit religions because they are unpopular, then we shouldn’t be surprised when our religions are also banned.

I would say the City of New York could place whatever restrictions on construction they would like, including the placement of “religious” buildings.

True, they can pass zoning laws. But these zoning laws can’t discriminate against one religion while giving others a pass. Is there a zoning law against religious community centers in that area? Are there already churches and synagogues in that area?

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Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2010-08-15 09:32:10

I did not conveniently overlook anything. Again. the amendments are restrictions on LAWS passed by CONGRESS.
Congress has passed no such law.
What law has congress passed restricting the free exercise of religion?

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-08-15 13:13:41

Again. the amendments are restrictions on LAWS passed by CONGRESS.

And those laws supercede all other laws, sate and local. As we find in the CONSTITUTION:

(from wikipedia)
According to the Supremacy Clause (Article VI, clause 2) of the United States Constitution,

… the Laws of the United States … shall be the supreme Law of the Land; … any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.

As the Supreme Court stated in Altria Group v. Good, 555 U.S. ___ (2008), a federal law that conflicts with a state law will trump, or “preempt”, that state law:

Consistent with that command, we have long recognized that state laws that conflict with federal law are “without effect.” Maryland v. Louisiana, 451 U. S. 725, 746 (1981)

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-08-15 13:20:03

The idea that state and local laws can overrule federal laws was a basic tenet of people who supported Jim Crow laws. The reasoning was that ‘the federal gov may give you a bunch of fancy rights, but down here in Georgia/South Carolina/California(yes!)/wherever, we gots some different laws for you, boy’.

One can see the obvious danger in allowing some local-yokel law to supercede your constitutional rights.

 
 
 
Comment by rms
2010-08-15 09:12:07

The middle eastern countries have a long history of western meddling, and it hasn’t been for the benefit its people. Those in charge play empire, and average citizens suffer the consequences.

 
Comment by DennisN
2010-08-15 09:18:44

The government was successful at banning polygamy in the LDS church, and successully prosecuted the murderers of LDS apostates. Why should the Muslims expect anything better if they cross the line into criminal behavior?

Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-08-15 12:52:53

Did the gov ban LDS churches from certain areas, or just prosecute the crimes? Terrorism is against the law, building a mosque two blocks from ground zero isn’t.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 20:42:06

The feds were on the verge of declaring war on Utah (Deseret at the time) in the late 1800s over the polygamy issue, and Missouri’s governor Boggs placed an extermination order on Mormons which was only removed from the state legal code within the past quarter century. I would say an extermination order is a bit stronger than a ban on building churches in a certain area, wouldn’t you?

 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 08:51:57

I realize that Islam claims to be a religion of peace; nonetheless, endorsing the construction of a mosque at Ground Zero seems to send a very questionable message. Do any of the posters here know the breakdown of religious affiliations of the 9/11 attackers?

Comment by DennisN
2010-08-15 08:55:13

Last I read they were members of the Wahabi sect and Saudi citizens.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 09:39:22

Hence we are prosecuting wars on Afghanistan and Iraq, which although Islamic nations, are apparently quite distinct from Saudi Arabia, where the 9/11 terrorists originated.

Nonetheless, in the interest of showing that Islam is not collectively to blame for the 9/11 attacks, the idea of building an Islamic center a couple of blocks from Ground Zero is met with vocal endorsement from the top.

Am I out of line, or is there a disturbing inconsistency here?

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Comment by mikey
2010-08-15 11:30:40

“Am I out of line, or is there a disturbing inconsistency here?”

Nah CIB, you’re fine.

The entire world is insane and 3 degrees out of plumb.

I noticed and figured it all out yesterday when I stopped for a traffic light.

;)

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-08-15 13:02:48

Am I out of line, or is there a disturbing inconsistency here?

There may be inconsistency in fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that are really wars against a form of Islam that is based and funded in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, but where is the inconsistency in following the constitution and not forbidding a mosque anywhere near ground zero?

 
 
 
Comment by AmazingRuss
2010-08-15 11:10:28

I don’t know about religious affiliations, but I do know that they were all men. Therefore we owe it to the people that died in that building to ensure that no men’s rooms are constructed within 5 miles of the site.

Gender of peace, indeed.

Comment by exeter
2010-08-15 11:20:28

Nice Russ.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 09:02:48

“Fox News 43%”

Is that poll fair and balanced?

Comment by scdave
2010-08-15 09:33:51

Yes to the pols that listen to it…

 
Comment by CoSpgs4
2010-08-15 17:39:21

More so than what often is printed in The Economist.

Not even the NYT promoted Obama so heavily.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 09:52:19

The Economist/YouGov Poll
Sample 1000 General Population Respondents
Conducted August 7-10, 2010
Margin of Error +/- 3.6%

3. Which of these is the most important issue for you?
The war in Iraq . . .1%
The economy . . .39%
Immigration . . . 6%
The environment . . .5%
Terrorism . . . 4%
Gay rights . . .3%
Education . . .6%
Health care . . . 15%
Social security . . .10%
The budget deficit . . .5%
The war in Afghanistan . . .2%
Taxes . . . 3%

4. Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling his job as President?
Strongly approve . . . 20%
Somewhat approve . . . 25%
Somewhat disapprove . . . 12%
Strongly disapprove . . .36%
Not sure . . . 7%

Comment by Happy2bHeard
2010-08-15 20:03:49

Only 3% care about taxes.

 
 
Comment by mikey
2010-08-15 10:33:44

“The peasants…!?!”

Sheesh…Baron von Eddie, who died and made you the Pumpkin Overlord of the unwashed masses ?

:)

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 15:52:56

“Pumpkin”

Is that a short form of Potemkin?

 
 
Comment by exeter
2010-08-15 11:24:07

Peasants?

Still waging that worn-out GOP class warfare huh EddieTard?

 
Comment by Jerry
2010-08-15 13:45:05

Amen!

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 17:07:03

The mosque is already there. And it’s about a block AWAY from GZ.

All they want to do is remodel and expand. In property they already own.

Get a life people.

 
 
Comment by Spook
2010-08-15 06:43:20

The mosque issue is a non story; typical soft nooz, cost nothing to produce, very “NPRish”.

They should instead do a story on photo enforcement technology as revenue generation for state and local governments.

Comment by Eddie
2010-08-15 06:57:58

Islamists kill 3000 people. Then islamists want to build shrine honoring the killers. President says A-OK. And that’s a non-story to you?

And put aside all the pretense of religious freedom. This is nothing to do with building a mosque. There are hundreds of locations in NYC where a new mosque could be built. This is a political act meant to show dominance.

Just remember the great mosques in Jerusalem and Constantinople (Instanbul) were built on formerly religious Christian locations. This what Islam does. Conquer, then build mosque on important sites of the conquered.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-08-15 07:30:21

It’s curious that you’re so upset by this, Ed. As someone who portrays himself as a big fan of making a buck - I would think you’d see this for the distraction it is. After all, bankers/capitalists don’t bother themselves with politics, national borders, religion or any such boundaries/constraints. This is all a big yawn for them.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-08-15 07:34:44

Very true. If you have a net worth of over $10,000,000, a good portion of it is in other countries, perhaps Singapore, Hong Kong, Costa Rica. When you are wealthy enough, you consider yourself a world citizen and tsk tsk at the petty games between nations. The rest of us are held captive by the voters who put wealth redistributors in office. The wealthy know how to protect their wealth from the predators, so the predators are left to redistribute the wealth (what’s left) of the middle class.

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Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2010-08-15 08:34:52

The wealthy know how to protect their wealth from the predators, so the predators are left to redistribute the wealth (what’s left) of the middle class……
Your comment reminded me of something i read recently concerning the “Financial Reform” bill that was celebrated by the Obama Administration. As I understand, the big banks still get to keep their games going, and the big rule changes effected small banks and small companies.
As many of us are considering moving into other currencies and other countries to try and hold onto some of our money, they put banking restrictions in the Bill, making it almost impossible to transfer your money to a foreign bank (i was thinking Panama), and even are requiring the FOREIGN BANKS to siphon off a 30% charge, much like they siphon off 30% when you close a 401k prior to retirement withdrawals.
I can’t remember the exact details. Perhaps someone here is up on the 2000 page financial “SALVATION” package.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 09:41:47

The rest of us are held captive by the voters who put wealth redistributors in office. The wealthy know how to protect their wealth from the predators, so the predators are left to redistribute the wealth Bill in Los Angeles

Dang. It’s Sunday but…..What’s up with you Bill? Wassssssuppppppp??!! Your points don’t jibe with the facts, with the NUMBERS. It’s math dude and the math doesn’t jibe with mindlessly parroting “Atlas got Punk’d” high school level pseudo-philosophy buzzwords.

Redistribute wealth? From where to where? Predators? Who are the predators? Who is redistributing wealth to whom? How can you defend your position of wealth being “redistributed” to the poor? How? You will not because you can not because the wealth is being redistributed to the RICH blood sucking parasites.

Can I hear a parrot?

The Wealth Gap and the Collapse of the U.S.

http://www.chrismartenson.com/forum/wealth-gap-and-collapse-us/24520
A report issued last fall by the Paris-based Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) revealed that the United States has the third worst level of income inequality and poverty among the group’s 30 member states. Only Mexico and Turkey ranked higher in those categories.

The US also ranked among the worst in OECD countries in regard to the length of time people remain “poverty entrapped.” 7% of the US population remain “ persistently poor.” The US also ranks among the worst countries in “inequality of opportunity.”

The current global economic crisis has surely worsened those numbers.

Not since 1929 has the gap between rich and poor been so egregious. Back in 1929, two hundred of the biggest corporations controlled 50% of the nation’s corporate wealth. In 1928, the top 1% of the population had incomes 650% greater that the bottom 10% of Americans. During the early part of the 1900’s, relaxed regulation allowed corporations and investment houses to expand and consolidate into too-big-to fail megaliths. Sound familiar?

According to the Drum Major Institute’s 2006 Injustice Index, the ratio of the average U.S. CEO annual pay to minimum wage worker’s is 821:1 whereas twenty years ago the ratio was 40:1. The richest 0.1% are vanishing off the chart because it would take a bar graph that stretched out of the building to represent them on a societal wealth distribution chart. Below is a chart spanning from 1910 to 2005 which represents the wages in the Financial Sector compared to all other sectors.

Racial wealth gap quadruples in 20 years

http://www.peoplesworld.org/racial-wealth-gap-quadruples-in-20-years/

Unregulated capitalism is even worse, particularly for black and brown citizens and immigrants who suffer the additional burden of systemic racial, ethnic and gender discrimination.

So says a new study by Brandeis University’s Institute on Assets and Social Policy. The study shows a dramatic quadrupling of the wealth gap between African American and their white counterparts in the two decades since 1984.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 17:13:14

There’s those damn pesky facts again.

 
Comment by josemanolo
2010-08-15 19:03:41

rio, stop ruining the discussion.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 19:07:11

rio, stop ruining the discussion. with facts.

 
 
 
Comment by Carlos4
2010-08-15 12:29:28

I’ll bet not 10 percent know the true significance of the date of the Twin Towers destruction; it marks the date of Western Europe’s defeat of Muslims at the gates of Vienna. Look it up, understand that battle’s significance. Ask any educated Muslim. What? You have Muslim friends and they never told you?

 
Comment by neuromance
2010-08-15 12:30:41

Islamists kill 3000 people. Then islamists want to build shrine honoring the killers. President says A-OK. And that’s a non-story to you?

This really seems like a textbook troll:

1) I have heard nowhere that the mosque will be built in order to “honor the hijackers”.

2) Obama did not support buildling a “shrine to the hijackers”.

Now, I personally don’t support the mosque because 1) it will encourage foreign jihadists, knowing that a mosque was built at the site of a great victory, and 2) It’s incredibly inappropriate. It is about a hundred yards (47-51 Park Place) away from an attack carried out, by Islamic radicals in the name of Islam, that killed 3000 people. It would be like Christian extremists slaughtering 3000 people and destroying a landmark in Syria, then a developer deciding to build a church at the site. Just amazingly insensitive and inappropriate.

But, I don’t think we need to “add details” to the existing issue which are inaccurate.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 17:10:44

Agin, the mosque is already there. And it’s about a block AWAY from GZ.

All they want to do is remodel and expand. In property they already own.

A shrine? Put down the redneck neocon crack pipe and step away.

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-08-15 07:24:19

Cover for TTT’s rumored August 17th FB jubilee?

 
Comment by nickpapageorgio
2010-08-15 14:27:21

“They should instead do a story on photo enforcement technology as revenue generation for state and local governments.”

+1

 
 
Comment by Sarah
2010-08-15 06:47:30

He couldn’t have done more to destroy the economy, jobs and our long-term standard of living if he tried, but many on here are still are lost sheep. So focused on housing they don’t see the forest for the trees and believing whatever the media tells them. We currently have the scariest monster for a President this Country has ever seen, and they let him through the front door. 100000X worse than your local drug dealer or pedophile. He has always had one mission his entire life. To bully, use and exploit others. He dreams of millions of slaves and a devastated economic landscape. His flute doesnt work on me. I am educated and informed.

Comment by Rancher
2010-08-15 07:13:41

“The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president.”

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-08-15 07:24:44

Also the same thing can be said in regard to the Congress. The Congress is not the problem, the ones who punched the cards to elect the congress are the problem. The voters are the destroyers of America.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2010-08-15 09:36:12

Candidates are created of special interest money, money that’s not coming from the people.

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-08-15 15:18:53

His flute doesnt work on me. I am educated and informed.

Is this satire?

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-08-15 17:49:21

Special interests did not punch the cards.

 
 
 
Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2010-08-15 08:49:20

As much as most of the white community are on to the fascist world view of our glorious leader……he still has about 96% support of the “black community”. What does this tell you?
It tells me that all black people see the purpose of government is to “redistribute” the wealth. It is the real commentary of racism in America.
If you watch the “transformation” of towns from white to black, such as Detroit, or New Orleans, you will see a greater and greater emphasis on government programs and higher tax burdens. “White flight”, the evidence of racism is simply hard working people trying to escape the burdens of a government seeking to relieve them of their money to support more and more “social” services and support programs for “minorities”.
When the working and middle classes vacate, there is nothing left to do but increase the tax burden on the remaining, until the town collapses. City councils vote themselves pay-raises and benefits. Vote the citizens free housing, food and ‘healthcare’.
That is the great divide in America.
This “post racial” President has really made it clear to all just how divided this country really is.
Almost universal support by the black population. Clearly this is racism. We need to put an end to black racism, some how.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 10:57:06

As much as most of the white community are on to the fascist world view of our glorious leader……he still has about 96% support of the “black community”. What does this tell you?

It tells me that all black people see the purpose of government is to “redistribute” the wealth. It is the real commentary of racism in America.

Really now? Let’s think about that…..and about the real wealth redistributing going on.

Are you sure THIS might not be the “real commentary of racism in America”?

Racial wealth gap quadruples in 20 years

http://www.peoplesworld.org/racial-wealth-gap-quadruples-in-20-years/

Unregulated capitalism is even worse, particularly for black and brown citizens and immigrants who suffer the additional burden of systemic racial, ethnic and gender discrimination.

So says a new study by Brandeis University’s Institute on Assets and Social Policy. The study shows a dramatic quadrupling of the wealth gap between African American and their white counterparts in the two decades since 1984.

The study tracked median wealth between whites and blacks.”The greatest wealth produced in this period accrues primarily to highest income whites,” says the study. This group was the chief beneficiariy of Republican tax cuts.

Significantly this economic racism affects African Americans across class lines, which saw almost no wealth increase even among higher income brackets. “The study found that even as white families saw their financial assets grow from a median value of $22,000 in 1984 to $100,000 in 2007, black families experienced only the slightest growth in wealth during this same period,” continues the LA Times.

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Comment by Nudge
2010-08-15 18:51:06

Oops, those pesky facts again.

You’ve got to appreciate the way corporate-owned media in this country can so thoroughly distract the sheeple with various forms of “oh my, look, it’s the Goodyear blimp!” (stem cell rights, gay marriage, now this mosque thing) while the ownership class continues to manipulate the government to its own advantage and to our detriment.

Guess the meaning of that “man behind the curtain” scene in Oz was lost on many :(

 
 
Comment by Sarah
2010-08-15 11:22:58

I agree that he has a very sick relationship with the black community. He knows he wont be questioned by them and exploits them to their fullest. He is cancer within that has become very malignant. He uses race as both a crutch and a hammer - a tool for unabashed abuse. Unfortunately they believe what he says without understanding the ultimate consequences of his devastating actions. Obama is worse than the KKK because blacks know not to trust the KKK.

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Comment by rosie
2010-08-15 07:33:45

Sarah, Sarah Palin, is that you? Cool, I didn’t know you were a fan of the good ol’ HBB.

 
Comment by scdave
2010-08-15 08:00:44

You all are squealing like stuck pigs…

I LOVE IT…

You were riding high in the saddle when the decider was in charge and blissfully looked the other way while that criminal enterprise started elective wars and did nothing to prevent this country from being set up for its biggest recession since the GD…

Then you offer what as a alternative McCain & Palin…And your surprised that Obama won ?? Anybody could have won against the two morons you offered…Any wonder why the republican party has lost all credibility….

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-08-15 08:22:26

Good point. The 2008 election was automatically lost by the Republicans when their outlet Fox News shut out Ron Paul and when they put John McCain as the nominee. That reminded me of the mid-90s when they had Bob Dole (who has the McSame wimpy style) as the nominee. I could tell right away that Clinton would beat the Republicans.

I’m no conspiracy theorist, but those two instances make you think that the Republicans purposely set themselves up to lose.

Again it’s that mechanical horse race in Robin Williams’ “Popeye” that the characters were betting on, that is the perfect analogy to voting, American style. Some machinery seems to be behind it all.

Comment by In Montana
2010-08-15 09:42:55

Ron Paul wasn’t all that popular outside his base. I did a lot of calling to Republicans and he didn’t seem to register at all with them. I thought I’d find at least one fan. Unfortunately, people are not smart! They are STUPID and usually say the support the one whose name is most familiar, so naturally attentionwhore McCain’s name came up the most.

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-08-15 15:48:50

The Republican base are retards. Something like a quarter of them literally believe that Obama is the anti-Christ.

 
 
Comment by denquiry
2010-08-15 12:41:53

the republicans, under the great decider, ransacked and looted the treasury and wanted a democrat to be the fall guy for their crooked and nefarious deeds. the republican insiders knew very well what they were doing by nominating mccain. and the dems and repubs suck wall street’s d**k so it really doesn’t matter who runs the show. between govt and goldman sach’s we’re all going to see another great depression or perhaps have already entered into one.

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Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-08-15 09:13:44

You all are squealing like stuck pigs…

I LOVE IT…

You were riding high in your “blazing” saddles :-)

“TrueHaskell™” / “TrueSpooky™” / “SarahMe™” of “Downers Grove”, Il

WATCH OUT!…IT”S an AMBUSH lil’ Opie!

“…the “Posse” is a-comin’ and theys is a Truly Angry son!… the “TruePurity™” “TrueAnger™” PeeParty tea toadlers have…“recruited and incredibly diverse army of thugs (characterized by The conniving State Attorney General Hedley Lamarr as ideally consisting of):
“rustlers, cutthroats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperadoes, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, half-wits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswagglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass kickers, shit kickers - and Methodists” (…in addition to nearly every other kind of stock MUrDoch’s “True Chupacabra™” Faux News villain) into an ambush against ya.

“TrueAnger™” mud-rakers missed the “TrueCost™” economic road signs:

1. http://b.saaraa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/rd-sign-e1267828047806.jpg

+

2. http://www.boston.com/news/globe/west/WileE.jpg

BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! (fpss™)

&

Ho ho, hah hah, hehehehehehe, BwaHaHaAhHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! (Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower™)

 
Comment by exeter
2010-08-15 18:49:28

“You were riding high in the saddle when the decider was in charge and blissfully looked the other way while that criminal enterprise started elective wars and did nothing to prevent this country from being set up for its biggest recession since the GD…”

And then have the audacity to suggest that killing 700,000 human beings on the other side of the planet is somehow excusible, noble and honorable.

Wingnuts are so friggin’ disgusting and rotten to the core. Despicable.

 
 
Comment by SV guy
2010-08-15 08:04:05

Step #1 in any meaningful transformation of our nation requires us to

ELIMINATE THE FEDERAL RESERVE.

Everything else is merely background noise (relatively speaking).

Comment by Kerk
2010-08-15 08:34:45

The payer makes the rules.

There was a time when the people paid their representatives, and hence they would make the rules. Not anymore. The Fed uses their notes to buy influence. They pay, and the payee falls in line. People can elect whoever they like, but without changing the structure of payer/payee, nothing will change.

It doesn’t matter who makes the laws. What matters is who owns the authority to pay those who make the laws. When direct taxes had to be apportioned with no authority for legal tender laws except for states to use gold or silver (no authority for the general gov’t to make legal tender laws as determined by the Supreme Court initially), the payer was literally individual citizens.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 09:04:41

“The Fed uses their notes to buy influence.”

Money talks, BS walks — even when the money is only the virtual sort created by fiat.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 09:01:50

“ELIMINATE THE FEDERAL RESERVE.”

What then?

I was thinking about this recently: What would happen if the monopoly Federal Reserve, which all Americans recently relearned heavily favors the narrow, rapacious interests of NYC oligopoly banks over the greater good of the rest of the Nation, were eliminated in favor of a more decentralized banking system. Couldn’t Uncle Sam figure out another way to raise taxes for legitimate federal purposes (e.g. military defense) than relying on the Fed’s bubble creation and deflation schemes? A competitive system of regional banks with their own local currencies might be a better way to rebuild America’s economy than relying on the Fed’s central planners to figure out what is best.

Comment by DennisN
2010-08-15 09:24:10

I’m still confused about the Fed structure. Isn’t the Fed already a “decentralized banking system”? There’s the Fed of NY, the Fed of St. Louis, the Fed of SF, and so on.

The 12 Federal Reserve Banks are shown here.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/otherfrb.htm

Is the problem that the local heads just let the Fed chairman abscond with too much authority?

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Comment by Kerk
2010-08-15 09:47:53

“A History of the Greenbacks, V9, Second Series: With special Reference to the Economic Consequences of their Issue 1862-65″; Wesley Clair Mitchell.

“A Monetary History of the United States, 1867-1960″; Milton Friedman and Ann Jacobson Schwartz.

“A Tract on Monetary Reform”; J.M. Keynes.

These books are a starting point for answering that question although there are many others going back many millenia.

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-08-15 15:06:14

A competitive system of regional banks with their own local currencies might be a better way to rebuild America’s economy

Local currencies? Good grief. Didn’t we try that already? Let’s go back to tally sticks.

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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 09:01:11

We currently have the scariest monster for a President this Country has ever seen, He dreams of millions of slaves and a devastated economic landscape. His flute doesnt work on me. I am educated and informed.

It’s more fun to read that with this music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

Comment by scdave
2010-08-15 09:40:09

+1 Rio…LOL…

Comment by mikey
2010-08-15 11:45:54

Me too Rio

+1

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Comment by exeter
2010-08-15 10:41:41

lmao…..Obama Derangement Syndrome is alive and well in the empty skulls of neo-cons.

It’s going to be a hilarious 8 years.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-08-15 11:29:38

Ha Rio,…(you ended my breakfast’s first liquid refreshment, now on to something for sterilization of “possible” food poisoning) Cheers! :-)

 
Comment by varelse
2010-08-15 13:34:20

The left will always be better at “political debate through mockery” than their opposition.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-08-15 21:19:43

“political debate through mockery”

I’m chewin’ a bag of pretzel’s with an ice pack,… thinkin’ of sending the Israelis to bomb Iran as plan A…how can I improve? ;-)

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Comment by mikey
2010-08-15 11:41:45

” I am educated and informed.”

It’s suprising the number of mental patients that make that same claim.

:)

Comment by Sarah
2010-08-15 12:19:28

Mindless name calling. I guess if you dont have facts you have to rely on something. MTV says Obama is cool. He must be.

Comment by exeter
2010-08-15 12:34:45

Yes Obama is cool….. now say it again.

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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 13:00:40

Yes Obama is cool

Dudes….he even looks cool…..

http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=30123

 
Comment by AbsoluteBeginner
2010-08-15 13:17:58

‘Yes Obama is cool….. now say it again.’

LOL

 
Comment by nickpapageorgio
2010-08-15 14:39:46

Just like Che Guevara. Viva la revolution! :roll:

 
Comment by exeter
2010-08-15 16:42:45

HidingBoy,

All your favorite hobgoblins look cool.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-08-15 12:19:45

We currently have the scariest monster for a President this Country has ever seen, and they let him through the front door. 100000X worse than your local drug dealer or pedophile. He has always had one mission his entire life. To bully, use and exploit others. He dreams of millions of slaves and a devastated economic landscape. His flute doesnt work on me. I am educated and informed.

You may be educated and informed, Sarah, but your state of mental health doesn’t seem all that sound.

Comment by Sarah
2010-08-15 12:44:28

My mental health is at issue because I fully understand the impact for the healthcare and financial reform legislation, big government, uncontrolled spending and debt leverage, and increased taxes and charges on US business? Perhaps instead it my knowledge of his political and religous views, and how he uses race, unions and the uninformed? Maybe I expect too much character and integrity? I agree it is scary to know the truth, and sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-08-15 15:56:13

He dreams of millions of slaves and a devastated economic landscape. His flute doesnt work on me.

There are few Obama fans in here, but come on Sarah, do you seriously believe this? Strong opinions are one thing, but demonizing political figures you disagree with is neither appropriate nor helpful. It might be more apt to say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

As far as you and the President’s flute, well, let’s not go there.

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Comment by Sarah
2010-08-15 17:27:39

So are you saying he is ignorant as opposed to acting intentionally? You seem lost. As far as the flute reference, it was to the Pied Piper, but I guess you could only put it into terms you understand.

 
 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 17:15:58

Looks I didn’t get the memo of this being neocon sock puppet day.

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2010-08-15 08:07:45

South Florida property tax appeals on a blistering pace

By Sally Kestin and John Maines
Sun Sentinel
Posted: 9:45 a.m. Sunday, Aug. 15, 2010

The annual tax notices going out this month will bring a double whammy of bad news for many Florida property owners — lower values and higher taxes.

But a small minority will get a break by challenging the county’s value of their homes, businesses and land.

Tax appeals have been pouring into government offices throughout Florida, fueled by the real estate boom and crash and a highly profitable cottage industry of tax representatives. So far this year, Broward and Palm Beach counties have reduced property values by more than $2.5 billion as a result of appeals.

The process is available to all property owners, but less than 5 percent typically file appeals in South Florida. When they win, it means higher taxes, less government services or both for everyone else.

Comment by GH
2010-08-15 09:34:15

When they win, it means higher taxes, less government services or both for everyone else.

No one ever asks the question as to if we can afford the government in it’s current form, only about how essential it is!

I guess the idea is that you should be overpaying your taxes as a civic duty?

Comment by jeff saturday
2010-08-15 09:56:57

I have lived in Palm Beach county since 1984. Owned a place from 1984-2005 and I have rented since. As house prices get close to making sense down here I am looking at houses in Martin County which is just north of Palm Beach County. Much lower taxes, a lot less government growth and corruption from the bubble years.

 
 
 
Comment by skroodle
2010-08-15 08:29:04

This oughta teach him!
Axed by UFT ‘for unionizing’

In a move of stunning hypocrisy, the United Federation of Teachers axed one of its longtime employees — for trying to unionize the powerful labor organization’s own workers, it was charged yesterday.

Jim Callaghan, a veteran writer for the teachers union, told The Post he was booted from his $100,000-a-year job just two months after he informed UFT President Michael Mulgrew that he was trying to unionize some of his co-workers.

“I was fired for trying to start a union at the UFT,” said a dumbfounded Callaghan, who worked for the union’s newsletter and as a speechwriter for union leaders for the past 13 years.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/this_oughta_teach_him_rQamwIU0sNZxyrmyNBxz4L#ixzz0wglGINby

Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)
2010-08-15 09:12:49

It’s funny what happens when the shoe is on the other foot.
Seems they want to be able to fire workers at will…..sort of like getting rid of bad teachers without recourse………hummm.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2010-08-15 09:23:44

All union members are thugs.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 10:03:36

All union members are thugs.

The all or nothing fallacy?

Simplistic thinking, which believes in extremes, pervades society and is indicated by the need to conform and be strict about rules or, on the other extreme, to rebel. The human brain, however, is capable of creative thinking and judgment that span innumerable shades of meaning.

Read more: http://www.faqs.org/abstracts/Literature-writing/The-dark-side-of-Clarkes-Law-The-all-or-nothing-fallacy.html#ixzz0wh9U5PO4

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Comment by mikey
2010-08-15 12:02:20

“All union members are thugs”

Right on Bill.

If I were you, I would stand tall and scream that the top of your lungs at your next visit to an airport.

I’m sure that the all TSA gang, the airline workers as well as the pilots will enjoy and appreciate you as much as I do.

“Would you like coffee, tea or the door at 32,000 feet Mr Bill?”

:)

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Comment by varelse
2010-08-15 13:37:28

The reaction you anticipate seems to indicate that you agree with his assertion.

 
Comment by mikey
2010-08-15 14:08:11

Just reminding him that without all the thugs…it would be a long walk. They even work on city sidewalks, inter-state highways and trains.

 
 
Comment by howiewowie
2010-08-15 13:18:19

Especially firefighters and police.

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Comment by Bill in Carolina
2010-08-15 19:39:01

My comment is essentially identical to exeter’s “all realtors are crooked” statement which he repeats on this site fairly often. But when your side is painted with the same broad brush you seem to take exception. I got a giggle as to how aggressively you all rose to the bait, but after reading the responses I feel I must add the following statement.

All union supporters are stupid thugs.

 
Comment by exeter
2010-08-16 05:08:53

Learn to love union labor. They’re here to stay.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2010-08-15 08:43:45

A few weeks back, after a two hundred plus point DOW rally, Eddie was gloating that it “felt so good to be right” about his DOW 12000 stock market prediction, even though the DOW was nowhere near that level. Last week, the DOW completely reversed course and erased all those gains and then some. By Eddie’s own standards, that would indicate that he was actually wrong. Conveniently, Eddie was nowhere to be found to answer to his folly.

Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 17:20:20

Neocon sock puppets are NOT in touch with reality, let alone accepting responsibility for their mistakes.

Much like any common criminal.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 09:09:44

Scare mongers in the financial journalism community are helping to legitimize a Fed move towards QE2. I note that Japan has endured two straight decades of deflation, yet the two late-vintage Japanese automobiles in my garage run just fine, and so far as I am aware, Japanese living standards, including longevity, are better than America’s.

The Financial Times
Fed needs firepower to zap deflation monster
By James Mackintosh
Published: August 13 2010 20:17 | Last updated: August 13 2010 20:17

Every action film script has the hero running out of bullets at a crucial moment and reaching for whatever weapon comes to hand. Ben Bernanke may not have the pecs of Jean-Claude Van Damme, but the Federal Reserve chairman signalled this week he was willing to bash away with a baseball bat if that is what it takes to keep the economy going.

The US central bank has already cast aside its main weapon, interest rates, having slashed it to zero in the wake of Lehman Brothers’ collapse. On Tuesday, it reloaded its backup, quantitative easing – think Sigourney Weaver switching from pulse rifle to flamethrower in Aliens.

Unfortunately, the markets took the wrong message. Rather than being reassured that the deflation monster had a fight on its hands, investors decided to flee. Bad news on the economy in the US and China and renewed worries about the eurozone’s troubled periphery and European banks made matters worse. The nascent summer rally in equities came to a painful end, bonds rose and market inflation expectations tumbled.

Which raises the vital question: is the Fed firing blanks?

EDITOR’S CHOICE
Funds look to dangers of US deflation - Aug-13
Short View: Fed right to fret about deflation - Aug-12
US recovery doubts move centre stage - Aug-11
Short View: The Bernanke put - Aug-11
Lex: Bond markets - Aug-11
Analysis: Deflationary fears send Treasuries off the charts - Aug-10

Comment by GH
2010-08-15 09:29:44

Sometimes it IS a good idea to yell FIRE in a theater. Like when there is a fire for example.

Call it like it is! our world economy is indebted to the point of bankruptcy and something has to give.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 09:44:06

“Sometimes it IS a good idea to yell FIRE in a theater.”

Much better to calmly address emergency situations, as yelling FIRE can spark a rush to the door, leading to people getting trapped inside or trampling deaths.

On the other hand, ignoring or remaining oblivious to emergencies can result in many getting burned.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-08-15 12:22:28

But if you’re going to panic, it’s a good idea to panic first.

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Comment by SDGreg
2010-08-15 16:23:20

Better to be first with the popcorn refill.

 
 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-08-15 10:19:53

and something has to give. ;-)

Hwy checks “Long-Term” cheat-sheet:

Gold / Oil $75.00+ / Diamonds / milk&honey

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 17:21:55

When in danger and in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

 
 
Comment by scdave
2010-08-15 09:55:58

Must Read;

The Atlantic Home
SUNDAY, AUGUST 15, 2010

How a New Jobless Era Will Transform America

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-08-15 10:40:12

How a New Jobless Era Will Transform America

(among teenagers, for instance, even the narrowest measure of unemployment stood at roughly 27 percent)

Let’s try an experiment:

All you AZ elderly grand parents go out today and buy a push-mower, hand clippers, rake, manual-edger, buy ‘em new…none of this craigs-list bargins deals either (In fact, go to Tru-Value and buy anything with a lil’ American flag on it). Find a bored videogameripodtuned youngin’ in the “hood”… doesn’t even have to be yourin’s own blood related. Have ‘em do your “yard-work”… pay ‘em cash $$, like you do the non-citizens which you currently have under labor contract. Try it for the summer, bring ‘em lemonade when the temp hits 106.

If it works in AZ, we can try it ‘cross the Nation, from Maine to San Diego, from the peach fields of Georgia to the meat processing plant in Omaha. America! Boomers! Disposable Income! Apprenticeship! Cheap-Labor Skills! Youth! Summer! It’ll work! :-)

Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 17:28:56

I spent ALL of my summers from 4th grade until I was 21 mowing other people’s yards for money. With a (gas powered, non height adjustable) push mower. A rotary pole edger and hand clippers, rake and no bags. And people wouldn’t hire me unless the yards were 3 or more inches high and you could no longer see the curb or edges of the sidewalk. You actually had to GUESS where they were.

After I mowed our yard for NO money.

I HATE, HATE, HATE mowing yards, but I’m WAY better than the “pros.”

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Comment by ProperBostonian
2010-08-15 11:39:20

Also recommend “The End of Men” in The Atlantic Monthly. Economically, many men are now falling behind women. The article asks what if postindustrial society is better suited to women and what would that mean to men?

1. During this recession, 3/4 of the 8 million jobs lost were lost by men.
2. For every two men who will receive a B.A. this year, three women will do the same. Some colleges actually practice affirmative action to get more males.

(Apologize if this has already been discussed here.)
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135/

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-08-15 12:24:20

Big V will shortly appear to inform you that all who possess the X chromosome are abusers who deserve unemployment and worse.

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Comment by Spook
2010-08-15 12:32:11

Also recommend “The End of Men” in The Atlantic Monthly. Economically, many men are now falling behind women.

Uh, just until times get “dangerous”; then the value of males will take its rightful place because remember; no men work for free except fathers and husbands.

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Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 17:31:05

There is a huge amount of sexism and ageism in the labor market these days.

I’ve run into both along with outright reverse racism. The EEOC is buried under these new types of complaints.

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Comment by ProperBostonian
2010-08-15 12:03:11

From The Atlantic article: “Robert Reich wrote on his blog that the recovery might actually be shaped like an X (the imagery is elusive, but Reich’s argument was that there can be no recovery until we find an entirely new model of economic growth).”

This was the first thing that came to mind for me, how in the heck can you say a recession is over with 10% unemployment?

Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 17:40:41

It is for the rich, silly.

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Comment by neuromance
2010-08-15 12:38:44

Scare mongers in the financial journalism community are helping to legitimize a Fed move towards QE2.

The politicians and the FIRE sector is dependent on inflation - more people borrow and more people buy houses when there is more inflation. That is the experience of this country. So that seems to be the goal - inflation.

On the other hand, inflation is a double-edged sword. As I’ve heard it put, “Once you jump on the back of the tiger, it is hard to get off without being eaten.” Inflation may be like riding a tiger. Intentionally eroding the population’s wealth so that a few sectors can benefit might not go over so well, politically.

Comment by Weed Wacker
2010-08-15 15:47:57

Intentionally eroding the population’s wealth so that a few sectors can benefit might not go over so well, politically.

Since when?

Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 17:43:56

Right? In fact, history shows it to be the MOST popular form of politics.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 09:14:44

This is where too much discretion and not enough rules will get you. The next Fed-funded too-big-to-fail bailout goes to the U.S. Treasury bond market.

The Financial Times
Short view: The Bernanke put
By James Mackintosh
Published: August 11 2010 20:33 | Last updated: August 11 2010 20:33

The US Federal Reserve has a new policy: the Bernanke put. Unlike the “Greenspan put” – the perception that Alan Greenspan’s Fed would cut rates aggressively to bail out equity markets – the latest move by Ben Bernanke’s Fed benefited bond markets.

Tuesday’s decision was actually rather modest: the Fed will maintain its holdings of Treasuries and mortgage bonds at $2,054bn, rather than slowly shrinking it as bonds mature or borrowers refinance.

This telegraphed the Fed’s concern about the anaemic economy. In addition, the market now believes Mr Bernanke has convinced fellow Fed policymakers to share his deep fear of deflation. To many investors this means future weak economic data will be met by further quantitative easing, printing money to buy assets (good for bonds).

The danger is that this interpretation becomes self-fulfilling. At the very least, Treasury yields are going to react more strongly than in the past to the next set of weak economic data. At worst, the reaction will be so strong – anticipating a full-blown QE2 – that the Fed will have little choice but to act to avoid a disappointment-fuelled sell-off in bonds driving up borrowing rates across the economy.

It is not yet certain that this will be the outcome. But if it comes to pass, it will extend the moral hazard infecting the world financial system into the biggest and most liquid market. That cannot be good news.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-08-15 11:01:19

I’m quite certain that the outcome that Professor Uncertain is prognosticating will leave all of us HBBer’s pondering the outcome of such a certain uncertainty ever manifesting itself it into both an outcome with some sort of certainty and a certainly not an unexpected outcome with some sort of uncertainty. Now, lets all review the economical tenets of “conundrum” …Professor Uncertain, if you would please… :-)

(Hwy50, quietly leaves to brew slightly more certainly good coffee…)

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 11:53:28

All I know for certain is that my affordable Trader Joe’s french roast coffee tasted mighty good today!

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 09:21:52

The Economist
The Democratic left
Disappointed, down, despondent
And not about to rush to the polls in November, either

Aug 12th 2010 | las vegas and Washington, dc

WHY, asks a Democrat leading a training session for fellow activists, doesn’t “Yes we can” work as a slogan any more? “Because we haven’t,” a jaded participant responds. Progressives, as bedrock Democrats like to call themselves, are despondent. The election euphoria of 2008, when their party secured heavy majorities in both chambers of Congress and Barack Obama won the presidency with ease, has deflated so rapidly that analysts are now diagnosing on the left an affliction they ascribed to the Republicans back then: an “enthusiasm gap”.

The present gap is really more of a chasm. Gallup, a pollster, reckons that a mere 28% of Democrats are “very enthusiastic” about voting, compared to 44% of Republicans. By the same token the Pew Research Centre found in June that only 37% of liberal Democrats were “more enthusiastic than usual” about going to the polls, compared with 59% of conservative Republicans. And according to an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll the same month, the categories of voters whose interest in elections has dimmed the most since the last one are liberals and those who voted for Mr Obama (see chart). “You can’t deny the level of disappointment,” says Raul Grijalva, a Democratic representative from Arizona and head of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.

Mr Obama and the Democrats’ leaders in Congress insist that progressives have a lot to be thankful for: the passage this year of universal health care, the fondest of liberal ambitions for decades; a financial-reform act that increases oversight of the wayward bankers who, in the minds of many, were bailed out at humbler workers’ expense; the extension of unemployment benefits in the teeth of vociferous Republican objections, and so on. But doctrinaire Democrats can find fault with all these achievements. Mr Obama’s health-care reform, for example, does not involve a state-owned insurer (“the public option”) designed to keep the private ones honest, as many on the left had wanted. The extension of unemployment benefits was merely the rump of a much more ambitious proposal for a second stimulus package, most of which fell by the wayside. And the scalding of Wall Street’s fat-cats has not gone nearly far enough for many Democrats’ taste.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 10:10:16

(Democrats) Disappointed, down, despondent
And not about to rush to the polls in November, either

Why would a real, populist, pro-working man, anti-corporate Democrat be stoked on Obama anyway?

Why would a real Republican be stoked on the crony-capitalist, religious nutjob Republican party anyway?

Is this stuff a mystery?

Comment by scdave
2010-08-15 10:24:07

+1 again Rio…

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-08-15 11:41:44

(Eye’s Did’nt know they had them thar Sharp’s repeatin’ rifles that far down in South America…dang good eyesight as well) ;-)

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-08-15 12:25:44

+1, Rio. The GOP is morally and intellectually bankrupt. Their only selling point is that they are not Democrats.

Comment by varelse
2010-08-15 13:42:48

That’s a darned good selling point, though!

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Comment by Carlos4
2010-08-15 14:59:10

Keep whistling past the graveyard. Demolibs took over two years ago with a veto proof election. Look at where its gotten us. Financial Armageddon looms, WW3 looks to be a tree trimming away, geezers about to be chucked under the bus. And you think we here in flyover country are going to bend over for another dose? The Obloviator can fly in here 99 times; he’s just losing more votes every time he opens his mouth without a teleprompter. He can forgive the FB’s 100% of their mortgages, it wont change a thing. Keep whistling; the balloons go up in 80 days.

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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 15:22:22

Keep whistling; the balloons go up in 80 days.

LOL, yea dude, we’re gonna get real, this time it’s different, new “hope and change” if Republicans are elected.

What a shell-game, juvenile joke.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-08-15 16:02:36

Seriously. How many times are the sheep and lemmings going to fall for the Republicrat puppet show?

 
Comment by Carlos4
2010-08-15 16:25:07

Talk about smoking the unicorn weed, Obiemeister doesnt have to visit out West much because libodems know that the fumes keeps those mountain sheep pulling their lever; thank God the haze is lifting from the rest of the country, mostly due to the wind created by the Obloviator himself. Hope he visits our state a few more times just to ice the local elections.

 
 
 
Comment by nickpapageorgio
2010-08-15 15:03:41

“Why would a real, populist, pro-working man, anti-corporate Democrat be stoked on Obama anyway?”

Because he is down with the struggle.

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 09:25:38

So long as Frankenbanks have Dr Bernankestein’s steadfast backing, where is the worry about their future survival?

The Economist
Finance after the crisis
Citicorp redux
In the third of our profiles of financial institutions after the crisis, we look at Citigroup, a tarnished American icon

Aug 12th 2010 | NEW YORK

WALTER WRISTON liked to contend that banks needed little capital as long as they were run well. On several occasions since the legendary Citicorp boss retired in 1984, the bank and its successor, Citigroup—created in a merger in 1998—have been caught embarrassingly short of the stuff. The latest blow-up was the nastiest. Enormous mortgage losses confirmed fears that the group, which grew into a gigantic financial supermarket under Sandy Weill, one of Wriston’s successors, had become too complex to manage—a “frankenbank”, as an insider puts it. Citi almost drowned in the red ink. It ended up needing three bail-outs, the last of which saw the government take a 23% stake.

Citi must now show that it can thrive on its own. Critics argue that Vikram Pandit, who took over as chief executive in December 2007, has been too slow to pare Citi’s product offering and tighten its risk culture. To some, his survival owes more to obsequiousness—he rushed do the Obama administration’s bidding on mortgage modifications, for instance—than to managerial talent. Mr Pandit counters that he and his team are far along with what could be the largest bank restructuring ever, and that its fruits are already visible.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 09:29:36

Comment to an article in The Economist on Charles Rangel’s ethics problems:

CA-Oxonian wrote:
Aug 5th 2010 11:06 GMT

Oh my goodness! Members of Congress cheating on their taxes and using taxpayers’ dollars to fund private initiatives? Whatever next? Illicit affairs? Pork-barrel spending? Boondoggles? Who would have thought it possible?

Oh, right, time to wake up and smell the pig manure. Last time I checked, politics in the USA more closely resembled that of Italy than of the Scandinavian countries. So the only question is: why is this old pol being targeted now? Obviously he failed to keep on someone’s good side. Maybe not enough back-scratching or kickbacks to the right places?

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 10:05:28

“…America is flush with cash.”

Where did all that cash come from, so soon after Wall Street banks flushed trillions of dollars down the mortgage securitization toilet? Was it simply created from thin air by the Fed’s balance sheet expansion? If it were possible to spark an economic recovery by (virtually) printing and distributing more money, why doesn’t the Fed simply expand its balance sheet by, say, $200,000 X 300 m = $60 trillion and hand over $200,000 to every deserving American household?

The Economist

The world economy
Joy, pain and double dips
Fear of renewed recession in America is overblown; so is some of the optimism in the euro area

Aug 12th 2010

SELDOM does the United States look at Europe with economic envy. The past few weeks, however, have been one of those rare phases. Concern about America’s stumbling recovery has been rising, just as anxieties about the euro area’s economy have faded. The dollar is the weakling among rich-world currencies (see article). But Americans should take a little heart: it is too soon to despair about their economy. And Europeans should show a little caution: it is too soon to be sure that theirs is firmly back on its feet.

Some forecasters believe that America’s disappointing GDP growth in the second quarter, 2.4% at an annualised rate, could be the start of a slide towards a second recession. One worry is jobs, or the lack of them. American business created only 71,000 in July, too few to match the growth in the population of those of working age and far too few to shorten the queue of unemployed noticeably. Unemployment is stuck at 9.5%, even though corporate America is flush with cash. Companies are still unhelpfully shy of hiring, preferring to squeeze yet more output from fewer people.

Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 17:48:29

“…corporate America is flush with cash.”

…because they have fired so many people, underfunded retirements, gotten HUGE tax greaks and pumped-n-dumped their own stocks and bonds.

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2010-08-15 10:07:30

Interesting article and comment in this week’s Economist.

http://www.economist.com/node/16792858

The Economist was an early bubble critic, both stock and housing. The ultimate free market magazine now says that financial market bubbles have proven not to work for the best, unlike other markets, and need to be restricted.

“Surely there are rational investors who can profit from market booms and panics? There are some but not enough. Such rational beings are simply overwhelmed by the force of the herd.”

“Why not just let the markets rip? Some would say that bubbles tend to coincide with periods of great economic change, such as the development of the railways or the internet. Individual speculators may lose from the resulting busts but society gains from their overoptimistic investments. However, this argument is harder to sustain after the recent bubble in which society ‘gained’ some empty condos in Miami and holiday homes in Spain.”

“The evidence is clear that the clean-up costs after debt-financed bubbles are too high. Central banks and governments do have to intervene when credit growth and asset prices (particularly in property) start dancing their toxic two-step. Asset markets do not work as well as those for consumer goods.”

Here is the interesting comment.

“After the railroad bubble, we had cheap transcontinental shipping. After the telegraph bubble, we cheap transcontinental communication. After the housing bubble, I don’t see why so many people find it so inconceivable that we could have inexpensive residential and commercial housing accommodations (other than the rather large speed bump that many investors’ balance sheets depend on housing retaining as much of its wealth as possible to keep them solvent).”

“One of the larger threats to the continued prosperity of developed economies is the reality that manufacturing and services work can be done in developed economies at a comparable quality for a fraction of the labor costs. When the question is posed as to why workers in developed economies are paid so much more, the typical response is that the cost of living is so much higher. Of course, the cost of living is higher because workers are paid more. An abundant supply of inexpensive housing could be capable of bursting this circular logic, and leaving the workers of developed economies more competitive.”

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 10:44:41

The Economist was an early bubble critic, both stock and housing. The ultimate free market magazine now says that financial market bubbles have proven not to work for the best, unlike other markets, and need to be restricted.

I’m not surprised that it’s a British economic magazine and not an American magazine that would come to this conclusion.

In all my travels and studies I have seen that it is the American model of capitalism that promotes its dogmas with a religious zeal that is mostly absent in other region’s brand of capitalism.

We can see the result of this in our debates and policies regarding, health-care, climate change, outsourcing, globalization and regulation.

An example of how this affects cultural attitudes is when I try to explain to a Brazilian right-wing conservative how the global warming debate is divided down party lines in the USA. The Brazilian will have a hard time understanding how such an important matter could be so politicized along economic and political lines. They just shake their heads in confusion and say lets go to the beach.

Comment by Carlos4
2010-08-15 15:05:44

Bill Clinton would be a right winged conservative in Brazil.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 15:24:44

Bill Clinton would be a right winged conservative in Brazil.

Man, that was ignorant. You should stop. Really.

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Comment by Carlos4
2010-08-15 16:16:00

Go back to the Amazon and burn some more rain forest. Then, ignore the damage, and, come up here and call us ignorant because of your bogus comparisons between our culture and yours. The contention that global warming is just a political argument tells us that your studies have avoided paleo climates and glaciation cycles. Stay in Brazil. Those conservatives that you’re to the left of define you very well.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 16:50:39

Go back to the Amazon and burn some more rain forest. Then, ignore the damage, and, come up here and call us ignorant because of your bogus comparisons between our culture and yours.

LOL! Guffaw, Burp…..excuse me…..

Now; between “our cultures and yours”?

Your last post is based on gross-ignorance of my situation. But it’s not your fault. You’re new or really young maybe.

But when I’m ignorant about stuff, I shut my pie-hole. You should try it. It’s fun! Or at least people wont laugh at you.

I’m American. I was born in Illinois and lived in my good-ol’ USA for 93% of my life.

Now what this “ours” vs “yours” culture thing? Don’t be mad OK? I never burnt no rain-forest any more than any capitalist of the world is responsible for doing.

And we’re having fun here. :)

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-08-15 16:51:41

call us ignorant because of your bogus comparisons between our culture and yours.

Uhh, I believe RioAmericanInBrasil is an American living in Brasil, like his name says.

 
Comment by Carlos4
2010-08-15 18:50:51

Who cares where he was born; he’s a pseudo intellectual spouting Latin commie revolutionary rhetoric. He can go badmouth me in this country because of those who fought and died for his right to do it; try it down there and there’s a 4′ by 6′ ranch waitin’ for him. I said for him to keep his lefty latin pie hole comments to himself; better yet, stay in Brazil. With no scientific proof to back his spouting save a Brandeis University (a hotbed of lefty liberalism/social-justice-at-any-price/white-men-suck mentality) study that rich are getting richer duh moment study, I find that the space he takes up here is a gross waste of bandwidth. Switch the 93/7 to 7/93; better yet, expatriate. He’ll avoid going postal in 79 days.

what a joke)

 
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2010-08-16 00:24:36

Dude - take a chill pill.

 
 
 
Comment by CoSpgs4
2010-08-15 17:46:20

Good thing you don’t live full time in the USA.

Your never ending anti-Americanism would earn you a fat lip. As it should.

Where did you earn the money to live in Brasil anyway? Who did you take advantage of in order to pull it off?

Comment by Happy2bHeard
2010-08-16 00:27:43

So you don’t object to Carlos4’s venomous name-calling. But Rio’s reasoned criticism of issues makes him un-American?

“America - love it or leave it” is so 60s.

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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-16 09:36:51

Who cares where he was born; he’s a pseudo intellectual spouting Latin commie revolutionary rhetoric. Carlos4

Good thing you don’t live full time in the USA. CoSpgs4

I guess Carlos4 and CoSpgs4 are mad at me because I attempt to make valid, cited, sourced, supported points that threaten their narrow thinking. I wish they would debate me rationally instead of going nuttball on me. But look at their two above posts.

Are these the posts one would expect from reasoned, rational, thinking, open-minded people?

Or could they be interpreted as posts from ignorant, potentially violent, closed-minded bigots?

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 10:52:20

“The ultimate free market magazine now says that financial market bubbles have proven not to work for the best, unlike other markets, and need to be restricted.”

We never had a free housing market in the U.S.A. Hence any conclusions about the supposed failure of ‘free housing markets’ based on recent U.S. housing market experience is patently spurious.

Why am I not surprised that the financial journalist community is perfectly comfortable with this glaring flaw in their analysis?

Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-08-15 17:01:13

We never had a free housing market in the U.S.A. Hence any conclusions about the supposed failure of ‘free housing markets’ based on recent U.S. housing market experience is patently spurious.

Good point, but we’ve had a worldwide housing bubble. Do we know the extent of gov involvement in the housing market in countries like Spain, Ireland, China, etc? If they didn’t have the Fannies and the CREs and such, then one could argue that the free market failed in those countries, no? Perhaps the Economist was alluding to these countries too.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 23:38:52

“Do we know the extent of gov involvement in the housing market in countries like Spain, Ireland, China, etc?”

Good question; good research problem; go for it if you are so motivated.

My kneejerk hunch: Those with the greatest degree of govt involvement have the biggest bubbles…

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Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 17:50:02

Damn socialeest commies! They’ve been infiltrated!

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 10:08:22

The Economist
Currencies
Race to the bottom
A weak economy and an active Federal Reserve have driven the dollar down since June. Will that last?

Aug 12th 2010

THREE months ago, when Europe’s debt crisis had markets panicking about sovereign risk, it seemed that all roads led to the dollar. The greenback was rising against the other big global currencies, the yen, pound and euro. Its role as the world’s reserve currency seemed an inestimable advantage when investors were unsure where they could safely park their cash. Within the rich world, America’s economy looked the best of a bad bunch. The stage seemed set for a dollar rally.

How quickly things have changed. On August 11th the dollar fell to a 15-year low against the yen of ¥84.7. It perked up against the euro to $1.29, though that was still much weaker than the $1.19 it reached in early June when euro-revulsion was at its worst (see chart 1). The ground the greenback has lost in recent weeks owes to a run of weaker data about the economy, not least on jobs (see box on the next page). On August 10th the Federal Reserve conceded that the recovery would probably be slower than it had hoped. The Fed kept its main interest rate in a target range of 0-0.25% and stuck to its creed that rates would need to stay low for “an extended period”. In addition the central bank said that it would reinvest the proceeds from the maturing mortgage bonds it owns into government bonds to prevent its balance-sheet (and thus the stock of ready cash) from gradually shrinking.

This modest change in Fed policy was widely expected. It signalled concern about the economy while stopping short of panic measures. That did not stop stockmarkets from slumping the day after the Fed’s statement—perhaps because investors had hoped the central bank would go further and commit itself to a fresh round of asset purchases, or perhaps because they were unnerved by the Fed’s more cautious tone on the economy. But the Fed’s shift still seemed to confirm that it is more minded than other central banks to keep its monetary policy loose, a perception that has contributed to the dollar’s slide and helped America’s exporters. The day before the Fed’s decision, the Bank of Japan kept its monetary policy unchanged. The European Central Bank (ECB) has allowed short-term market interest rates to rise as it withdraws emergency liquidity support from the banking system.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 10:11:58

Fannie Mae brings back no-downpayment mortgages
10:26 am August 6, 2010, by Kyle Wingfield

What could go wrong? From the Washington Independent:

“Buy new with $1,000 down,” the advertisement says, the words resting atop a trim green clapboard house offset by a bright blue sky. “The time has come. Stop wasting rent check after rent check and start building equity in your own home. And with only $1,000 down, affordable monthly payments and no private mortgage insurance required, the dream is closer than you think.”

It sounds too good to be true. But it is true. This offer does not come from a subprime lender, looking to reel in thousands of unqualified and ill-advised homebuyers, only to slap them with add-ons, fees and variable rates. It is not a teaser or a trick. The advertisement references a program initiated by the National Council of State Housing Agencies and Fannie Mae, the taxpayer-backed, government-sponsored enterprise that buys up mortgages from lending banks.

The Federal Housing Authority already offers mortgages for just 3.5 percent down — a program that now accounts for one in five U.S. home loans (link thanks to The Atlantic’s Megan McArdle) — but apparently the geniuses at Fannie Mae didn’t think that was enough of a taxpayer subsidy. Perhaps they were giddy at the prospect that the taxpayer bailout for them and sibling agency Freddie Mac will end up costing “only” $150 billion or so, although Fan alone still has nearly $220 billion in bad loans on its balance sheet.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-08-15 12:09:36

This offer does not come from a subprime lender, looking to reel in thousands of unqualified and ill-advised homebuyers, only to slap them with add-ons, fees and variable rates. It is not a teaser or a trick. The advertisement references a program initiated by the National Council of State Housing Agencies and Fannie Mae

(In regards to the burial disposition of his dead wife’s body)

“Why do you deny to the crow… what you give so willfully to the worm?”

Zhuangzi /Chuang Tsu

 
Comment by Carlos4
2010-08-15 15:10:13

The only thing that might save FB’s would be no monthly payment mortgages. Thats the direction this administration is heading, if only incrementally.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 15:24:07

“The only thing that might save FB’s would be no monthly payment mortgages.”

Aren’t 8 million or so U.S. ‘homeowner’ households in default on their mortgages at this very moment?

Homeownership to decline further, housing analyst predicts
John Burns says demographics, government policy and other factors that once pushed people into buying property are no longer enough.

By Mary Umberger
August 15, 2010

Somewhere, somehow, in the last decade the so-called American Dream seemed to insinuate itself into the Bill of Rights. Government policy, among other factors, pushed homeownership to a lofty 68% of all households.

That was then.

The number has been steadily backsliding in the last couple of years, and housing analyst John Burns says he got “a lot of heat” for his recent report predicting that homeownership would drop below 62% — and maybe further — if the number of “strategic defaulters” who walk away from their underwater mortgages continues to increase, he said.

Homeownership is clearly a value that’s promoted by most politicians,” Burns wrote in the mid-July report. “They are in for a rude awakening, however, and a legacy that they will not be proud of.

Despite some recent initiatives to support more affordable rental housing, “I don’t think the majority of Congress is shifting to favor renting,” he said. “But they do finally realize that not everybody is meant to be a homeowner.”

Affordability, though, is the bright spot.

“In most markets of the country, it’s now the most affordable time to purchase in three decades,” Burns said. “If a lot of people who make $40,000 to $50,000 could come up with a down payment, and if they were convinced that they weren’t going to get laid off, that would be the real positive that would drive housing up.

“I know there are a lot of ‘ifs’ there. It’s true, though.”

If the previous list is supposed to amount to the pluses for homeownership, consider the minuses Burns said were weighing it down:

•Higher immigration levels. Not only do the majority of immigrants not have the money to buy homes, they also are cash-spending consumers who don’t have the credit histories requisite for home buying. They historically rent for five to seven years on average, Burns said.

•Tighter lending policies than in recent years, though they’re still generous by historical standards.

•Catapulting mortgage default rates. Burns estimates that 8 million homeowners aren’t paying their mortgages, and 6 million of those will lose their homes. Government rescue programs aren’t working because homeowners have too much credit card debt, he said.

Burns declined to enter the “when will housing recover” derby.

I do think we’re bouncing along the bottom [of the falling market] here, but we’re clearly bouncing down right now,” he said. “We need job growth and a healthy mortgage market to pull us out of this.”

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 10:18:50

Aug. 15, 2010, 12:01 p.m. EDT
Homebuyers beware: Tougher rules for FHA loans
Consumers face changes to credit scores and borrowing costs

By Jennifer Waters, MarketWatch

CHICAGO (MarketWatch) — Consumers looking for home loans backed by the Federal Housing Administration will face tougher hurdles and higher costs under new legislation and new rules that could take effect as soon as this month.

Higher monthly fees, larger down payments and better credit scores are among the new initiatives intended to insure that the FHA stays solvent. Its reserves, which are used to cover bad loans, plummeted to $3.5 billion at midyear from $19.3 billion in September 2008, according to a report from the Department of Housing and Urban Development.
Remodeling Fannie and Freddie

MarketWatch’s Alistair Barr explains how a replacement for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac might work and what’s at stake, including the value of your home.

Proponents of the measures applaud the FHA’s efforts to preclude the need for a taxpayer bailout, while also stepping up the quality of its insurance portfolio. But critics fear that the moves will stifle an already sluggish recovery in housing and will be most burdensome on first-time home buyers who rely most on the FHA insuring their loans. The FHA backs 30% of all loans outstanding and is on track to insure 1.7 million loans by the end of its fiscal year Sept. 30, according to its recent quarterly report to Congress.

“This wouldn’t be such a big deal if the economy was going well and houses were moving quickly,” said Gibran Nicholas, chairman of CMPS Institute, which trains certified mortgage-planning specialists. “But when you’re talking that the majority of buyers out there are first-time home buyers using FHA financing, now it begins to make a pretty big impact.”

Comment by DennisN
2010-08-15 11:47:55

So it’s OK to tighten up the standards to qualify for a loan - where stupidly loose standards were one of the reasons for the housing bubble. But it’s not OK to raise interest rates above zero - where stupidly low interest rates were another reason for the housing bubble.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-08-15 12:15:39

Toss one back DennisN, (I’ll try to figure out a way to compensate you in the future…) ;-)

Send 14+% membership club card to DennisN

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2010-08-15 20:06:28

I don’t agree with the stupidly low rates either, DennisN, but isn’t your main concern the fact that you’re sitting on over a half million in cash and you’re not getting the return you want? That cash came courtesy of the housing bubble, if I recall correctly, and if low interest rates are the price you have to pay, well, I’m sure others would love to have your problems.

I’d guess you’ve worked hard to get where you are, but you’re doing pretty well in the grand scheme of things- especially since you cashed out to some FB of a painter who had no business qualifying for your overpriced San Jose sh!tshack. At a certain point you’re going to start getting a better return, but you just might have to exercise a little patience and be thankful for your market timing.

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 10:56:58

Education department to boost anti-fraud efforts

* FACTBOX-What is the proposed U.S. education regulation about?
Fri, Aug 13 2010

WASHINGTON | Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:16pm EDT

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The federal government will hire more investigators to prevent fraud by for-profit colleges in such areas as student financial aid, U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan said on Friday.

In a letter to the chairman of a Senate committee on education, Duncan said his department will hire over 60 additional staff to strengthen oversight of schools and increase program reviews of post-secondary institutions by 50 percent each year.

Duncan said his department would conduct undercover investigations of school recruiting practices and is working to improve its anti-fraud data analysis.

The department will also hire a new Chief Customer Experience Officer to oversee consumer protection in its Federal Student Aid division and has asked for additional funding for oversight in its 2011 budget request.

Stocks of for-profit education companies, including bellwether Apollo Group Inc, DeVry Inc and Career Education Corp fell on Friday. The S&P education services index was down almost 5 percent.

The letter followed a hearing by the Senate committee last week where the Government Accountability Office presented its findings from an undercover investigation of for-profit college recruiting activities.

“The unethical and potentially illegal practices uncovered by GAO are unacceptable,” Duncan wrote in the letter.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-08-15 12:19:20

Stocks of for-profit education companies, including bellwether Apollo Group Inc, DeVry Inc and Career Education Corp fell on Friday. The S&P education services index was down almost 5 percent.

BWAHAHAHicHAHAHicHAHAHAHAHicHAHAHic* (DennisN™)

 
 
Comment by Spook
2010-08-15 11:24:38

I think it finally happened. I saw a speed/redlight “photo enforcement unit” that appeared to have been disable/vandalized.

Its a long pole with 3 devices mounted to it. A camera, a radar, and some other device, maybe a transmitter?

Anyway, the camera was pointed at the ground opposite the street and the radar was pointed straight up into the sky.

I doubt the wind did this.

Comment by arizonadude
2010-08-15 11:57:40

I’m surprised it doesnt happen more often actually.

 
Comment by Kim
2010-08-15 12:02:28

My reponse got eaten. Ugg. Sorry if this ends up being a repost.

I am not surprised. This kind of vandalism was bound to happen sooner or later. DH has a couple of coworkers who got fined for being just an inch or so over the line. I have also heard of people who were making perfectly legal right turns, but they did so at just the wrong time; the cameras caught them over the line and the drivers were fined.

In the good old days of ground cameras, a little hairspray on the license plate helped blur the pictures just enough. I wonder if that would work against the pole-mount cameras?

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-08-15 12:28:05

These red light cameras, sold as “safety” measures, have actually been shown to increase accidents due to people slamming on their brakes to avoid tickets, and getting rear-ended.

Comment by Spook
2010-08-15 12:35:55

“people slamming on their brakes to avoid tickets, and getting rear-ended.”

Nothing worse than sitting on a motorcycle at a light and hearing the sound of brakes locking up behind you.

Comment by combotechie
2010-08-15 13:45:45

“Nothing worse than sitting on a motorcycle at a light and hearing the sound of brakes locking up behind you.”

The recorded sound of brakes locking up makes for great fun when played at 150 decibels from one’s car stereo while stuck at a light.

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Comment by Spook
2010-08-15 15:30:20

not funny combo

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-08-15 16:05:20

Motorists who kill and injure motorcyclists and pedestrians through their own carelessness should be banned for life from driving.

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Comment by Spook
2010-08-15 12:38:08

Yeah, because even if you speed up to get through it, you then get a speeding ticket instead of a red light ticket.

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 17:54:41

It wouldn’t be so bad… if they hadn’t also shortened the yellow light.

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2010-08-15 19:59:06

Stickin’ it to The Man. Love it.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2010-08-15 12:00:21

You guys will like this bit of insider mechanical info. I don’t have all the info as it was a quick conversation.

In the past I’ve mentioned discussions I have with a accountant friend of mine from church. “Joe” is an accountant for accountants, back checks books at casinos, knows a few DC and Wall Street banking thugs, etc.

Anyways, this morning he told me of a recent event. A large non-publicly traded builder he does work for was recently contacted by the bank the builder does business with. The bank has an equity stake in 6 model homes the builder constructed. The bank told the builder he had to sell the 6 models or else his credit lines would be cut by 100%. Accountant Joe indicated that the builder is current on his credit lines and there was no reason for it. Accountant Joe made contact through the top of the bank organization to get the low-down. Apparently the bank was directed by the OCC to write the builders spec houses down to zero and take the hit on reserves or force the builder to sell.

This might open up some good discussion to you guys who know banking because I don’t. I don’t know the name of the bank nor do I care.

The builder is pissed off because he had to dump his specs “below market value” and he was “waiting for the market to come back”. I just laughed and said to Account Joe, “the market is going to come back the way he thinks it will….. it’s over… and the OCC did the guy a favor in the long run”.

Anyways, OCC is acting as if they know these shacks aren’t worth a fraction of the asking price, yet Main Street is still completely deluded.

Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 17:57:58

What a mess. I’m surprised he had such a contract that gave the bank that kind of leverage even though he had perfect credit with the bank.

Ouch.

But yeah, the market won’t be back for a few more years.

 
 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 12:22:22

Speaking of ticket cams…

Interesting state Kansas: No front license plates, No motorcycle helmets, 2nd highest state percentage votes for Ross Perot I, Age of consent: 16 years, Beer drinking age: 18 until Feds cracked down, the birthplace of the civil war, John Brown, the “Free-State”, google “Bleeding Kansas”

“Don’t mess with Kansas”?

Kansas citizens have the most economic freedom in the country, according to the Forbes magazine U.S. Economic Freedom Index, which is to be published today. This ranking is largely due to Gov. Sebelius efforts to make state government more efficient.

The study said that if all states were as economically free as Kansas, the average American worker would experience a 4.42% increase, or $1,161 gain, in annual income. Over a 40-year working life, assuming an interest rate of 3%, that would amount to $87,541 in lost income.

http://www.ksdp.org/node/497

Comment by palmetto
2010-08-15 13:02:45

The problem is, you’d have to live in Kansas…

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-08-15 13:10:53

The problem is, you’d have to live in Kansas…

I know, mostly, but far eastern Kansas is wooded with rolling hills of hardwood forests, lots of game, and the population is college educated around Lawrence, Johnson County and KC. Houses are about 3 times income and the cost of living is low. They got cable TV too now.

Comment by Spook
2010-08-15 14:26:20

I know too; personally, I like my crackers salty cause I ain’t got time to beat around the bush with white people. I have no problem with white people saying exactly what they mean; I ain’t interested in paying no lawyer to get around you; don’t waste my time and I won’t waste your time.

You don’t want to interact CONSTRUCTIVLY with me? Thats your loss. Im “tan rested and ready” (just like Nixon) Black people gotta stop begging white people to “include them” in their systems.

Instead we need to seek out those people specifically interested in the production of constructive activity.

According to white people, there was a time when there were no white people on the planet; what were black people doing then?

Exactly!

We were involved in constructive activity (that resulted in the production of white people)

No affirmative action, no “set asides”, no empowerment zones”…

Government programs have made black people LAZY; I know cause Im one of em.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 15:56:41

“We were involved in constructive activity (that resulted in the production of white people)…”

Human evolution in brief…

 
Comment by Spook
2010-08-15 16:39:03

maybe?

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-08-15 21:36:19

Instead we need to seek out those people specifically interested in the production of constructive activity.

Bugs: “eh, the railroad to utarrrr is already completed, what you want an under-ground railroad to China truespooky ?

 
 
Comment by mikey
2010-08-15 14:46:50

I think that I’ve been to Kansas. Isn’t that the state where semi-trucks like to lay on their sides…to hide from the wind?

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Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 18:05:28

:lol:

 
 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 18:11:58

Just looked at Kansas on Google Earth.

Yes, the eastern half IS very nice.

 
 
Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2010-08-15 13:36:50

I hope I don’t come across as a crotchety old geezer when I say this. I grew up on thrift sayings like “A penny saved is a penny earned.” It seems like now our government is telling young people that “A penny borrowed is a penny earned.”

Comment by ecofeco
2010-08-15 20:18:40

It’s called “supply side” economics and it’s been this way since the 1980s.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 20:47:32

Benjamin Franklin Bernanke:

“A dollar printed is a dollar spent.”

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-08-15 21:50:21

“A penny saved is a penny earned.”

I’m tryin’ to relate .01 cents to $1,000,000,000,000.00… I’m seems to be a strugglin’ with the ‘rithmetic…being I’m just a common US taxpayer…(more on one side of the equation than the other). ;-)

 
 
Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2010-08-15 14:25:49

“I recall that this blog was dismissed in a similar manner. We were called crazy, and just about every other name in the book.”

And now many of the cheerleaders for the housing industry have become cheerleaders for the economy, again labeling as nuts us people who say that the the economy, like housing, is heading for hell in a handbasket.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 15:26:50

County’s foreclosure rate second-highest in California
Inland Empire ranks 5th in the United States

Staff and wire reports • August 13, 2010

Riverside County had the second- highest foreclosure rate in the state last month, a real estate tracking firm reported Thursday. The inland region ranked fifth in the nation.

A total 7,068 mortgage default notices, auction sale notices and bank repossessions were recorded in Riverside County in July, Irvine- based RealtyTrac reported.

That’s about 1 in 109 households in some stage of foreclosure. The county was No. 3 statewide the previous month.

New Coachella Valley numbers were unavailable Thursday, but they dropped in June compared to the same period last year.

Riverside County’s foreclosure activity was roughly 3 percent lower than in June and 41 percent below the year-ago level, figures showed.

‘‘Declines in new default notices, which were down on a year-over-year basis for the sixth straight month in July, have been offset by near-record levels of bank repossessions, which increased on a year-over-year basis for the eighth straight month,” RealtyTrac CEO James J. Saccacio said in a statement.

Stanislaus County was No. 1 in the state in July, with 1 in 102 households in default.

San Bernardino County was fourth with 1 in 115, according to RealtyTrac.

Nationally, 325,229 properties slid into foreclosure in July — a 4 percent increase from the prior month but a 10 percent drop compared to July 2009.

Nevada was No. 1, followed by Arizona, Florida, California and Idaho.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 15:33:50

Conyers, Kaptur Bash Fannie for Penalizing Strategic Defaulters
By Annie Lowrey 8/13/10 5:12 PM

This week, Reps. John Conyers (D-Mich.) and Marcy Kaptur (D-Ohio) sent a letter to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and Edward DeMarco, the head of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, asking them to justify Fannie Mae’s policy of penalizing or suing strategic defaulters — those who can pay their mortgage but chose not to.

“We believe that this opaque, overbroad, and punitive policy, as conceived by Fannie Mae, is a poor use of taxpayer dollars and will unnecessarily include individuals who are not choosing to default on their mortgage,” they write. “Furthermore, this policy is one of many which seems to run counter to the national need to stem the tide of foreclosures which are devastating communities across our nation.”

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2010-08-15 20:05:07

So NOT penalizing them would stem strategic defaults? I suppose NOT putting mortgage fraudsters in jail would also stem mortgage fraud.

Watching the liberal brain at work would be entertaining if the problems that were thus created weren’t so damaging.

Comment by Happy2bHeard
2010-08-16 00:47:39

Michigan and Ohio probably have fewer strategic defaulters and more that are due to job loss. Sounds to me like these two may not really understand the concept of strategic defaulters or they think that many of their unlucky constituents are going to be caught in a net meant for others.

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 15:37:02

Some fat cats have quite the flare for outlandish analogies.

A ‘Fat Cat’ Strikes Back
SHANNON STAPLETON

Stephen A. Schwarzman, CEO and co-founder of the Blackstone Group.

President Obama and the business community have been at odds for months. But in July the chairman and cofounder of the Blackstone Group, one of the world’s largest private-equity firms, amped up the rhetoric. Stephen Schwarzman—the leading John McCain supporter in a firm that, in 2008, gave more money to Obama—was addressing board members of a nonprofit organization when he let loose. “It’s a war,” Schwarzman said of the struggle with the administration over increasing taxes on private-equity firms. “It’s like when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939.”

 
Comment by seen it all
2010-08-15 17:54:46

Looks like the Nikkei _japanese stock index- is waking up to a morning spanking down around 1.5%.

More interesting is the futures touching 9000, a price level not seen since may of 2008 and now maybe the edge of the cliff.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 18:07:36

What did the Fed see that they are not telling us? Investors want to know, as they are on the brink of dumping stocks and parking their money under the proverbial mattress.

Comment by seen it all
2010-08-15 18:55:44

Not just the fed, but Cisco’s usually ebullient John Chambers sounded like a chill wind was blowing down his back.

Reading that post by exexter re: Bank ordered liquidations, i wonder if we are getting a seize-up a la fall 2008, or just a painful restructuring.

Either way equities are heading south.

 
 
 
Comment by AbsoluteBeginner
2010-08-15 18:26:50

You think if I asked a realtor whether it is a great time to buy a house they would help me out with a good deal?

 
Comment by cobaltblue
2010-08-15 19:37:12

From Shadow Stats today -

Intensified Economic and Liquidity Crises Continue:

“Economic reporting of this last week indicated that second-quarter GDP may suffer some downside revision (see Trade Deficit section), and that the third-quarter GDP might see renewed quarterly contraction (see Retail Sales section). After a plunge in activity and then a period of bottom-bouncing, with an upside blip from short-lived economic stimulus efforts, the U.S. economy has entered a period of re-intensified contraction. The renewed downturn had been signaled by the annual contraction of real (inflation-adjusted) annual M3 growth, back in December 2009 (see Real Money Supply in Retail Sales section).

With current projections for the federal budget deficit and related U.S. Treasury funding needs, as well the banking system’s solvency tests, all based on underlying assumptions of economic recovery and ongoing growth, the implications of continued economic downturn are horrendous in terms systemic risks and needed systemic liquidity.

Fed Gives Early Signal It Will Debase Currency to Prevent Systemic Collapse and/or Great Deflation. Those predicting deflation have reasons to do so, but I believe they are missing the nature of the U.S. government and central bank. To have a great deflation (in terms of consumer prices for goods and services), there needs to be some form of systemic collapse that helps to implode the money supply. (Issues in terms of inflation/deflation definitions and why collapsing debt does not trigger a quick onset of deflation all are discussed in the Hyperinflation Special Report.)

The Fed and the federal government did everything in their power in 2008 to spend or to create whatever money was needed to prevent systemic collapse, and they prevailed, at least for a brief period. Yet, the same risks face the system in the near future. Despite the relative stability seen in the financial markets and financial system, at present, little has been accomplished fundamentally to help the economy or to provide long-term stability to most of the banking sector. Such should become painfully obvious to the markets in the months ahead, as the economy renews its tumbling and the system reflects the impact of same.

The nature of the Fed and the federal government is to prevent systemic collapse. A collapse is unthinkable; it would mean a complete failure by the Fed and the federal government in their primary functions. Accordingly, irrespective of political or election-year niceties, the Fed and the federal government will spend or create whatever further money is needed to forestall systemic collapse. Faced with devil’s choices — a hyperinflation also leads to systemic collapse — the course of action selected likely will be the one that buys the most time (printing money and hyperinflation).

Due to ongoing structural banking problems, the broad domestic money supply has been in contraction, the economy is turning down again, and the Fed is scared. It signaled that this week when it agreed to start monetizing some Treasury debt. Ultimately, the U.S. dollar should face massive dumping as foreign investors flee dollar-denominated paper assets, and the Fed appears to be doomed ultimately to become lender of last resort for the U.S. Treasury. Such monetization and the flood of dumped foreign-held dollars into the U.S. will lead to higher inflation. As promised by Mr. Bernanke in 2002 (again, see detail in the Hyperinflation report), a central bank always can debase its currency, creating inflation. Critics of that concept offer that the process did not work in Japan, but the Japanese were not out to debase the yen.

As risks for a likely U.S. dollar panic and Treasury debt monetization near — high risk of same in the next six-to-twelve months — the general outlook for the economy and the markets is unchanged. For those with soft assets denominated in U.S. dollars, circumstances continue to suggest looking at actions for long-range wealth preservation. Despite any severe near-term volatility in the markets, physical gold and silver, assets outside the U.S. dollar (such as the Canadian dollar, the Australian dollar and Swiss franc) and assets outside the United States, offer long-term hedges against the severe loss looming in U.S. dollar’s purchasing power. ”

Best Wishes to All from John Williams

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 20:56:49

“Ultimately, the U.S. dollar should face massive dumping as foreign investors flee dollar-denominated paper assets, and the Fed appears to be doomed ultimately to become lender of last resort for the U.S. Treasury. Such monetization and the flood of dumped foreign-held dollars into the U.S. will lead to higher inflation.”

Call me skeptical, but didn’t QE1 already serve to monetize U.S. Treasury debt? So where is our scaremongers’ massive dumping of U.S. dollars by foreign investors, and higher inflation then?

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 20:51:50

* ECONOMY
* AUGUST 16, 2010

Housing Ills Cloud Debate on Fannie
By NICK TIMIRAOS

All year long, the Obama administration has defended its decision to postpone the debate over the fate of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac by arguing that it first needed to put the housing market back on track.

Now, as mortgage-industry executives and government officials prepare to meet for a summit on Tuesday to begin those discussions in earnest, policy makers are facing an unexpected problem: The housing market appears to be stalling.

That will make officials more cautious in considering any dramatic overhaul, because a shaky outlook further underscores the market’s heavy dependence on Fannie and Freddie, which together with the Federal Housing Administration are backstopping nine out of every 10 new loans.

“It pulls the debate in the opposite direction,” said Howard Glaser, an industry consultant. “If we’re stuck in the midst of this semi-permanent housing crisis, the question of the federal role becomes almost intractable.”

Over the past year, housing prices across much of the country began to stabilize as the government spurred sales by providing federal tax credits for home buyers and by holding down mortgage rates. The removal of those supports has exposed lingering weakness, putting renewed pressure on prices.

While mortgage rates are still at record lows, home sales have plunged in the months following the expiration of home-buyer tax credits in April. In July, they dropped 27% in Denver, 42% in Minneapolis and 45% in Milwaukee from a year earlier, according to data from local real-estate brokers’ groups.

Meanwhile, efforts to modify mortgages, which have held potential foreclosures off the market, have fallen short of their goals. In June, the number of homeowners whose government loan modifications were canceled, because they didn’t make their payments or couldn’t provide qualifying documents, was double the number of borrowers who entered the program. If more homes that represent a “shadow supply” of delinquent loans and foreclosures hit the market, home prices could tumble further.

There’s been a feeling in government, which seems to be more pervasive than it was six months ago, that says, ‘We’ve solved this housing problem; let’s move on to Fannie and Freddie,‘” said Laurie Goodman, a senior managing director at mortgage-bond trader Amherst Securities Group LP in New York. “But you haven’t solved this housing problem. We have another round of home prices going down a little more.

Comment by Weed Wacker
2010-08-16 11:28:58

“There’s been a feeling in government, which seems to be more pervasive than it was six months ago,

Government does really seem to be more pervasive that it was six months ago, doesn’t it!

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 21:06:50

Top ten reasons to sell all your stocks and hide the proceeds under your mattress:

* The Wall Street Journal
* ROI
* AUGUST 13, 2010

Is a Crash Coming? Ten Reasons to Be Cautious

* By BRETT ARENDS

Could Wall Street be about to crash again?

This week’s bone-rattlers may be making you wonder.

I don’t make predictions. That’s a sucker’s game. And I’m certainly not doing so now.

But way too many people are way too complacent this summer. Here are 10 reasons to watch out.

1. The market is already expensive.

2. The Fed is getting nervous.

3. Too many people are too bullish.

4. Deflation is already here.

5. People still owe way too much money.

6. The jobs picture is much worse than they’re telling you.

7. Housing remains a disaster.

8. Labor Day is approaching.

9. We’re looking at gridlock in Washington.

10. All sorts of other indicators are flashing amber.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 22:54:51

Great innovation here! Too bad that after tanking for two straight decades, Japan’s economy remains in the toilet.

Feature
SATURDAY, AUGUST 14, 2010
Meet the Maserati of Plumbing

By NEIL A. MARTIN | MORE ARTICLES BY AUTHOR
Japan’s Toto, purveyor of luxe toilets, is changing the privy habits of people around the world. With more innovations in store, its stock could sparkle like the finest of porcelain.

HERE AT Barron’s, we’ve never been picky about toilets. All we ask is that one be nearby when we’re inhaling coffee on deadline nights. The Neorest 550, however, is more than a toilet. Far more. It’s the Maserati of plumbing.

As you approach, the lid rises in greeting. The seat heats up. A catalytic converter snaps to attention, ready to absorb the faintest of unfortunate odors. Then you pick your sound effects—anything from Mozart to simulated toilet flushings to the crash of ocean waves. Folks in the living room may wonder what’s going on in there—but at least they won’t hear something worse. Toward the end, a robotic bidet arm swings into action. We’ll skip the details, except to say that it completes its duties with a warm-air dryer. As you take your leave, the lid closes and the Neorest automatically flushes. Time for the next customer.

Comment by Weed Wacker
2010-08-16 11:43:21

I’ve had the privilege to try that. Very nice! :) Only issue is the thing remembers the settings of the previous user and there are a lot of settings. For instance you can position the bidet arm and its range of motion and how hot the seat gets. Recommended for personal use only.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 23:04:09

It seems to me a better analogy is “rebuilding an airplane after it has crashed, but while it is still burning.”

And I wonder where they get their “real estate is 15 percent of the country’s economy” figure? Pre-bubble years, or during, when real estate was at its all-time unsustainably high share of U.S. economic activity?

Treasury Fixing Mortgage-Finance System Juggles Limitless Bailout, Economy
By Lorraine Woellert - Aug 15, 2010 9:01 PM PT

The U.S. Treasury Department, hosting a summit tomorrow on how to repair the mortgage-finance system, may get a blunt message from stakeholders in an industry tied to 15 percent of the country’s economy: Don’t screw it up.

The system’s size and complexity mean that a wrong move by the Obama administration could restrict credit, drive down home prices, increase foreclosures and slow the economy, housing advocates and industry participants say. At the same time, some lawmakers say it’s time to close government-controlled loan guarantors and halt limitless bailouts.

It’s like building an airplane while you’re still flying it,” said David Ledford, senior vice president of mortgage finance at the National Association of Home Builders in Washington. Housing investments and related services account for 15 percent of gross domestic product, according to the group, ranking the industry second to health care.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 23:11:56

Holy crap! Just when it looked like common sense was about to prevail in the discussion about the deleterious effect of U.S. housing subsidies, there is already movement afoot to restore the home buyer tax credit. We wouldn’t want U.S. housing to become affordable now, would we?

At any rate, calling this a “continuation” is yet another political lie. “Reinstatement” would be the proper term, as the credit expired on April 30, 2010.

I am greatly looking forward to the Republicans’ efforts to turn this housing debacle into political hay. Got popcorn?

Markets, Mortgage matters
Time to end perks for homeowners?
Posted by Scott Van Voorhis
August 13, 2010 10:31 AM

OK, the Republicans are right about one thing.

Despite a lot of hype from the Obama Administration, don’t expect any bold action from the president at this Tuesday’s summit on housing fianance reform.

However, at least in the case of one key facet of the American housing market and middle class life - the mortgage tax credit - that is not such a bad thing.

The housing meltdown is prompting calls for a sweeping evaluation of the federal government’s relationship to the housing market. Check out this pretty extensive piece from USA Today - not bad for a paper designed to look like a TV set.

Anyway, given the mess we are in, that’s only natural.

But to the chagrin of would-be housing market revolutionaries, the Obama Administration is also making clear that any reforms must include the continuation of the mortgage tax credit.

Comment by Weed Wacker
2010-08-16 11:51:20

You sure he isn’t talking about the mortgage interest deduction? The Home Buyer Tax Credit had nothing to do with a mortgage.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-08-15 23:35:44

Merriam-Webster Online Free Dictionary

Main Entry: hare
Pronunciation: \ˈher\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural hare or hares
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English hara; akin to Old High German haso hare, Sanskrit śaśa, Old English hasu gray
Date: before 12th century

: any of various swift long-eared lagomorph mammals (family Leporidae and especially genus Lepus) that are usually solitary or sometimes live in pairs and have the young open-eyed and furred at birth

Main Entry: hare·brained
Pronunciation: \-ˈbrānd\
Function: adjective
Date: 1534

1 : foolish
2 : absurd, ridiculous

Markets, Mortgage matters
Just what we needed, the return of no money down mortgages
Posted by Scott Van Voorhis
August 10, 2010 10:11 AM

Is a little common sense too much to ask from the do-gooder set?

With foreclosure rates spiraling out of control, it would seem an odd time for the federal government and various state housing authorities to be promoting zero-down mortgages.

But that’s apparently what state officials in Massachusetts, Wisconsin and Idaho are doing right now as they team up with troubled federal mortgage giant Fannie Mae to offer so-called “Affordable Advantage” mortgages.

The new initiative lets qualified, lower-income buyers with good credit get a mortgage without even having to meet the already low, 3.5 percent down required on most federally-backed mortgage loans.

Instead, these lucky few are eligible for 100-percent loan to value mortgages. In some cases a token downpayment, such as $1,000, is required.

Defenders of this seemingly hairbrained (SIC) mortgage initiative - now being offered locally by MassHousing - point to the high credit scores of the borrowers. In Wisconsin, the minimum credit score of 680 is required.

Really, how in the world is someone who either can’t scrape together a down payment - or who can only come up with a thousand bucks - a good candidate for homeownership?

Moreover, with no equity in the deal, these newly minted homeowners will almost immediately find themselves stuck with underwater mortgages. Maybe they missed the news over on Beacon Hill and down in Washington, but housing prices and sales are tanking with the end of the home buyer tax credit

Well, given one in four homeowners are now stuck with underwater mortgages, what’s a few more?

 
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