Yep, we got the downpour, too. Sun’s out now, though, and the relentless heat is cranking up. Really weird summer heat, not as much rain as we usually have.
Read something interesting on the net yesterday evening about the loop current in the Gulf. It’s considered the engine of the Gulf Stream and one scientific organization claims it is “frozen” and not flowing, possibly as a result of the BP oil spill, causing weird weather related phenomena.
However, we’re being told how “safe” Florida seafood is, so everyone get out there and chow down. Be sure to order it with a side of the neurotoxin Corexit.
Yeah there was a thunderstorm in Ahwatukee overnight. Still a big puddle in the drainage ditch next to Sun Ray park. Could hear the rain over the roar of my A/C last night but did not bother to get out of bed until 5:00 a.m.
The weather-sameness of San Diego would drive me absolutely nuts, scdave. Seriously.
Glad you like it though! Somebody has to live there.
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Comment by SD Renter
2010-08-22 08:56:48
Yes-SD really sucks when it’s sunny and 75.
2 hours from Snowboarding. 15 minutes from the ocean.(at least where Ilive)
Comment by In Colorado
2010-08-22 09:34:08
Its only 75 if you live west of I-5. For everyone else it’s much, much hotter than that. I speak from experience.
The mild winters are nice though.
Comment by CoSpgs4
2010-08-22 09:54:04
That’s great that you like it.
I wouldn’t like it. Very predictable. Very boring.
There are many places in the Rockies where you can drive 30 minutes in May/June and go skiing. AND have variety at home, too.
Sunshine all the time is depressing.
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2010-08-22 09:55:07
I, too, am bothered by incessant sun and a lack of inclement weather. I’m reminded of Oly’s “I love rain, I love rain, I love rain!” chants.
Comment by In Colorado
2010-08-22 10:10:56
“Sunshine all the time is depressing.”
Another “dirty secret” in San Diego is that its often hazy, especially on the coast where its cooler.
And all that sunshine doesn’t do you that much good when you’re stuck in traffic on either 78, i5, i15, i805, i8,52 or 168 at rush hour.
Comment by CoSpgs4
2010-08-22 10:22:23
I hear ya. I’m a fan of changeable weather conditions - adds spice and interest to a day. Clouds, lightning, torrential rain and SNOW are neat. I love wind, too.
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2010-08-22 11:53:10
That’s why I like living on the SF Peninsula. Just the right amount of sun, wind, rain, and fog (well we certainly have had a lot of fog this summer)
There are places with four seasons yet amenable to being active outdoors year-round. That’s one of the reasons I love the Seattle area - hiking, kayaking, sailing in the warm weather. Hiking, kiing, snowshoeing in the cold.
“There are places with four seasons yet amenable to being active outdoors year-round.”
Indeed, not everyplace with 4 seasons is like Minnesota.
As for San Diego’s great weather I found myself spending a lot of time indoors because it was often too hot. I get outdoors more here in the Centennial state than I did in San Diego.
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2010-08-22 10:24:44
I’m moving to SoCal when I become homeless.
Comment by scdave
2010-08-22 10:43:05
lot of time indoors because it was often too hot ??
Rarely is it to hot or to cold where I live (95051)…I have lived in the Northwest…I have lived in the South East….To extreme for me…
Comment by In Montana
2010-08-22 11:38:41
Yeah I’ve lived in Las Vegas and Dallas and you basically just lived indoors there. In LV I would sometimes go to Lake Mead around 7 am after working graveyard. That was kinda nice. Or in Dallas go out to Lake Ray Hubbard or Cedar Creek and swim with the water mocs.
Leasing a new tool for mansions that aren’t selling
Phoenix Business Journal
As luxury home values in the Phoenix market continue to slide — some are down by 50 percent or more from three years ago — dozens of mansions sit vacant in Paradise Valley and other chic spots.
Now, some real estate brokers are learning the ins and outs of lease-option agreements to keep the local residential market from freezing up again.
“It requires much legal documentation, but … we see this as a way to save the community,” said Ann Heins, a broker who specializes in distressed property sales with her husband, Ralph.
After a brief lift in the marketplace, many local real estate professionals think there is more room for home values to fall, particularly in the high-end market.
The lease option is a way to get somebody into the house with a vested interest in maintaining it until the market turns around.
I don’t believe that’s possible. I have paid a lot more than that into Social Security and Medicaid and a bunch of other programs. I know a whole lot of people that have been paying in for nearly as long as me.
That’s over 40 years. So some of us must be on the plus side. Right?
I expect to get this back when I retire in about 10 years.
How could we possibly owe more when we haven’t taken anything back out yet??? This can’t be right. Tell me it isn’t true.
What happened to my retirement funds????
As others have pointed out, this is NOT a particularly logical way to measure government debt because we don’t pay for ANYTHING on a per-capita basis. Since I don’t pay the same ammount of taxes as either Bill Gates, my ten year old niece, or that homeless guy sleeping on a grate, it doesn’t really illuminate things to assume that we’re going to held responsible to this debt equally. It would tell us more to if we compared the debt with income tax receipts, and said for every $1,000 of income taxes, you were responsible for servicing $x ammount of debt. To be clear I’m NOT making a MORAL argument, simply pointing out that since in reality we DON’T pay interest on the debt equally, it doesn’t make much sense to assume equal shares on the principal. Of course even this sort of measure is off because there are OTHER federal taxes, like capital gains and corporate income taxes.
Just a hypothesizing here: suppose an individual refuses to pay taxes based on that he never voted for any lawmaker that spent money unconstitutionally. Result is jail.
Now suppose millions of people exempted like crazy and refused to pay taxes? There are not enough resources to detain them. But the creditor countries, China or Japan, could invade the U.S. And confiscate property.
“But the creditor countries, China or Japan, could invade the U.S. And confiscate property.”
Which would probably be destroyed by their invasion. And besides, Japan has no army worth mentioning.
If anyone will confiscate, it will be Mexico. They know how to invade. 20 million of their troops are already here. We even celebrate their holidays with parades.
ShoreBank of Chicago Said to Be Closed Today by FDIC
The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. will shut down ShoreBank Corp., according to people with direct knowledge of the matter.
ShoreBank Corp., the Chicago lender operating under a Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. cease-and- desist order for 13 months, will be shut and most of its assets will be bought by Urban Partnership Bank, two people with direct knowledge of the matter said.
Urban Partnership, created to make the acquisition, will keep branches in Chicago, Cleveland and Detroit and continue to focus on low-income communities, the people said, speaking anonymously because the matter is private. Urban Partnership will have Tier 1 capital of at least 8 percent and its chief executive officer will be William Farrow, a former executive at the Chicago Board of Trade and Bank One Corp., they said.
“The good news is that the bank, under this new management, will still be there and serving the South Side community,” said Dory Rand, president of the Chicago-based Woodstock Institute, a non-profit that studies community lending. “They have made the South Side a decent place to live and work and do business.”
Home Sales Probably Plunged and Goods Orders Rose as U.S. Recovery Slowed
Home sales probably plunged in July, and orders for long-lasting goods climbed for the first time in three months as the U.S. strained to sustain the recovery from the worst recession since the 1930s, economists said before reports this week.
Purchases of new and existing houses dropped 12 percent to a 5.01 million annual pace, the lowest since March 2009, according to the median forecast of 54 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News. Durable-goods bookings climbed 3 percent last month, the survey showed.
“The economy is stuck in a rut,” said Russell Price, a senior economist at Ameriprise Financial Inc. in Detroit. “We lost the momentum in the second quarter and now we’re really struggling to regain any momentum at all.”
Can momentum be regained? Once momentum is lost it has to be re-created. But I don’t see how it is regained. These senior economists don’t seem to know much about anything. Which is why they’re economists I suppose.
“The economy is stuck in a rut,” said Russell Price = a depression
Face it, this is a depression. Yeah, we’ve seen the fireworks, the dramatic stock swan dive, the bankruptcies and foreclosures, the headline grabbing layoffs. But I’ll argue that in and of themselves those do not make a depression. It is the DURATION of the downturn that makes such events into depressions.
The question now is which way forward? With so many still looking to the past for answers they are at the same time dragging this out. Meanwhile people simply are not prepared for a long term period of being “stuck in a rut”. Example: that story about the 401k hardship withdrawls. For every houseowner that is being “saved” - there is another liquidating what little remained of his/her savings.
It’s laughable really, so much talk about “saving” people and the real net effect of current policies is a slow grinding widespread impoverishment.
The question now is which way forward? You are not paying attention. We are going “forward”. That’s the new Obama sales-pitch, talking point for his party. If you want to go forward you put the car in (D), and if you want to go backward, you put it in (R).
We can’t get out of the ditch because the Republicans are dragging us back,(even though they control both branches of Congress and the Presidency) as the Democrats are pulling us out.
So you see, we are going forward. It’s just that the driver is Blind and Hearing Impaired and has absolutely no idea where we are going (maybe over a cliff)…..but, we are moving “forward”.
You forgot the tires are flat, the battery is dead, there’s no gas in the tank, it’s raining and the top is down, and the Democratic horse hitched to the front bumper just died.
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Comment by Ol'Bubba
2010-08-22 07:40:43
Rancher- I’m surprised at you. You should know better: that’s not a horse, it’s a jackass.
Comment by Rancher
2010-08-22 07:43:29
Sorry about the slip. My second cup will help
as the brain cells start aligning up in the right
direction. That second glass of wine last night really screwed the pooch.
Comment by scdave
2010-08-22 09:13:05
That second glass of wine last night really screwed the pooch ??
Feeling the same myself after my youngest 30th birthday party last night…I can barely move…
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-08-22 15:48:58
“That second glass of wine last night really screwed the pooch.”
Maybe you aren’t drinking enough wine often enough?
Unknown - this stint with the edge will be 2 years old next month.
We may in fact be in a depression, but our inexpensive entertainment options (TV, radio, Internet, etc.) are cushioning the blow. Now, if there weren’t mind-numbing entertainment options available today, what is happening now might seem considerably more dire.
Depressions aren’t just economic in nature. They’re sociological, too.
The end of the federal homebuyer tax credit left its mark on Washoe County’s housing market in July, as sales of existing homes saw double-digit decreases.
Washoe posted 406 unit sales of existing single-family homes for the month, down 32 percent from June and 21 percent from July 2009, according to the latest report from the Reno/Sparks Association of Realtors. The sales numbers do not include condominiums, townhomes, manufactured and modular houses and new homes.
The decrease follows a five-year high for sales in the previous month, as many buyers scrambled to meet the homebuyer tax credit’s initial June 30 closing deadline. The deadline to close was ultimately extended to the end of September.
“Realistically, we were expecting a decrease in actual closed sales for July,” said Ken Amundson, president of Reno/Sparks Realtors Association. “Anywhere from 50 to 100 sales in June would have occurred in July without the pressure to meet that deadline.”
New pending sales and contracts written in July remain consistent with the activity seen in the previous three months, which is good news, Amundson said, adding that the trend points to continued stabilization in the market.
For now, the impact of the tax credit isn’t expected to fully dissipate until the end of the new closing deadline. But given signs of stabilization in the market, Washoe should be fine even without such homebuying programs, Amundson said.
Median price was a positive for the Washoe housing market, posting a 6 percent increase to $180,000. It is the fourth increase in median price in the last six months.
Although median pricing continues to bounce along the bottom, the fact that sale prices aren’t seeing the same freefall that followed the housing bubble’s collapse is a sign that the market is stabilizing, said Brian Kaiser, a housing and real estate analyst with the University of Nevada, Reno’s Center for Regional Studies.
…
I don’t want to say too much on the net because this is a work in progress and it’s a small world but the owner of the short sale that I just made an offer on Saturday was a well respected Agr/Product related business owner for about 30 years.
He struggled 3 years big time before he before he bit the dust. He kept the house is perfect but financially, he is destroyed. Nearly a year delinquent on property taxes with penalties due by Aug 31. Newer roof , furnace, appliances, damned near everything and he can’t even pay he taxes and he and his RE agent are trying to pimp bids and offers as a short sale. Heck, I’ll nibble.
Between a few years of really crazy FSBO DreamPrice of attempts and an RE agent that told him his house was worth 300k range, he is at the mercy of me and the lenders unless this RE agent pulls a a qualified golden rabbit or a bigger idiot than me out of the hat.
You want a quick and dirty SS offer from me, I’m cash and you and the people on your end pay me a discount to me for that too. Plenty of houses out there and a lot more and cheaper are coming.
A larger competitor just walked in with gov’t assistance and took over his business operation. Sad but no my problem.
It’s really rough out there in the business world but if I can get his really nice house (3578 fin. sq ft) from the lenders at or about $55 sq ft…. I will if I can.
It’s all business and this bitter renter just hopped off of the fence to see what’s for lunch.
They probably won’t sell to me as they claim it’s only 4% commission and their agent/broker/lender want it all if it can be sold to the NGF. They’d just love write up and put an overpaying Fanny/Freddy/FHA 30yr j6pack and wife into it. Already tried to pull that duel agency crap.
It’s really kind of big for me but I like solid brick houses, fireplaces, lots of elbow room and I’m gonna buy a go-cart to zoom around in if I get bored in the winter and can’t afford to heat the damned behemoth.
I do have lots of farm friends 30 miles away so they can drop off a 1/2 cord of oak whenever I give them heads up. As far as funishing the place, my little sister pipes up with her solution. Fly her in, march me, dog and my housemouse out the door, gasoline and torch the current place with everything in it and give her at least 60k to start to go furniture shopping.
Yeaah, Right…damned girl still owes me money from when she used to cheat me when we were kids !!
I will need a much larger Samsung HDTV home theater system for downstairs and some at least two decent brown leather couches, and matching chairs with foot rests. Plus at least 3 complete bedroom sets with all the junk and trimming. Plus…hey this stupid house stuff could get a little expensive in a hurry…Booze, need lots and lots of bar booze. Hey, I already have that. Plus…two beat up metal folding chairs in the living room for relatives, LDS and tourists.
mikey places a little tin cup at HBB door with a large “Please Donate” sign and hopes they reject my offer so I can go to Cape St. Jacque, Vung Tau, Vietnam fo 10 days and eat great big, fat, safe shrimp this winter.
Those midwest prices just blow me away. You’re getting a beautiful brick rancher of almost 4k square feet at $55 per foot, yet the hardest hit areas in the west, with nearly 15% UE, are seeing hordes of speculators jumping in at more than $100 per foot. Methinks there’s still massive pain in store for the likes of NV, AZ, CA, OR, WA, ID, UT, etc.
I don’t have a link where they were asking 300k fsbo dream price anymore but I do have a link with photos where they were asking 279,900 FSBO in 2006.
If my short sale falls through, I will post it so we can all laugh at me almost getting trapped in a big stupid house.
If I really have to pay for this sucker at less or near Short Sale asking price, I’ll quietly crawl away in shame and nobody on HBB will ever know where I’m hiding because I will still have paid too damned much for it.
Visa, BofA join forces on mobile payments
San Francisco Business Times
Visa Inc. and Bank of America Corp. announced a joint pilot project that would allow consumers to use their smart-phones to make purchases.
The pilot teams San Francisco-based Visa, the world’s largest payment processor, with BofA, the nation’s largest bank. Initially to be tested in the New York metropolitan area, people selected for the trial could use their phones as virtual debit cards: after installing a chip, when making a purchase they could pass their phone near a point-of-sale device and money would be automatically be moved from their bank account.
The tie-up between the two titans potentially creates a dominant contender in the race to turn mobile phones into payment devices — but it’s already a crowded field, as Reuters pointed out: Visa is getting ready to run a similar pilot with US Bancorp. BofA has its own mobile trials under way, while Verizon Wireless, AT&T, T-Mobile USA and Discover Financial Services are also working on a similar joint venture.
Bloomberg reports At Least Half of Shanghai, Beijing Flats Are Vacant
At least half of the apartments in Shanghai and Beijing are empty, the China Daily reported today, citing an online investigation by volunteers conducted in 100 Chinese cities.
About 51 percent of Shanghai apartments, 66 percent of Beijing flats and more than 70 percent of units in Hainan are vacant, according to the survey, based on counting the number of apartments observed to have no lights on at night. It was conducted on more than 1,000 real-estate projects and was organized by news website Sina.com., according to the report.
“Investors and speculators are the owners of the vacant houses” as they wait to sell their properties at an appropriate time, said Lu Qilin, a Shanghai-based researcher at Uwin. “It’s important for the government to introduce more measures to curb speculation.”
Anyone who thinks China does not have a property bubble is in Fantasyland.
ah, yes, the great Paper Tiger. Something tells me China’s not in as great shape as the MSM, pundits and propaganda mongers would have you believe.
I read something yesterday about how students in China can’t write by hand. They use computers. If asked for a handwritten note, they can’t do it without great effort, if at all.
How many glyphs are there in the chinese “Alphabet”. Aren’t there thousands? At least the Japanese have alternatives to Kanji (Hiragana, Katakana and Romanji)
Those are brave volunteers, my hat is off to them. Helping to pull aside the curtain hiding the truth behind the “Truebamboolie” has earned them no friends in Beijing or on Wall Street I’m sure.
50%? Holy Kung Pao Chicken! Iguess we’ll soon see China’s own version of “extend and pretend” coming soon, along with a hefty shadow inventory while the high rises continue to sprout like mushrooms.
And I have no doubt that Miss Li Wong researched this. Everyone one in China knows that real estate only goes up and that there won’t be a crash because “it’s different here in China.”
And remember, never look to closely at the chicken itself.
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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2010-08-22 15:23:32
I am reminded of a Chinese restaurant I used to go to back in college. I ordered House Chow Mein, and could not identify the greasy meat. I am convinced it was cat. I never ate there again. In fact, I don’t much like Chinese food anymore.
Comment by Dave of the North
2010-08-22 17:55:29
House Chow Mein? You mis-read the menu, it was Horse Chow Mein…
I read a articile a while back that claimed that it was just not worth the hassle of renting out the unit. Keep in mind that they can’t do 5% down, they have to invest 20-40% down. Even with that, the appreciation was anticipated (ya i know) was so great that rent was relatively minor consideration.
I wonder what percentage of apts would be dark at any given time of night in a fully occupied building. I would think 20%, maybe? Much more the later it gets. (That still leaves a lot of empties, though.)
Demonstrators in West Palm Beach march against Arizona-style immigration law
By Andrew Marra Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 6:59 p.m. Saturday, Aug. 21, 2010
2006 My son was killed by a drunk Guatemalan, driving with no lic. no car insurence and 12 passagers in the van with him. when the driver hit my son on his bike, his head went one way and the body the other. The driver and all the the passagers,but one fleed the crime area. The other was to drunk to know what had happen. when asked by WPPD, he said i dont speak no english. Til this day nothing was done about my only child murder. So i say treate them like you treate us. Lock them up!!!!!!
tonia
8:27 AM, 8/22/2010 HEY GRINGOS:
AMERIKA BELONGS TO US, NOT TO YOU.
WE WILL RECLAIM THE LANDS YOU STOLE FROM US AND SHIP YOU BACK TO EUROPA WHERE YOU BELONG.
My daughter started college this week(stayed local..doesn’t want student loans when she is done)…she is now one of 25,000 there. As I looked around at the campus..stared at the line going around the building for the financial aid office….knowing what unemployment has been for the last 2 years…other than bagging groceries..Where are all these people going to find jobs in their field of study?…And how are they going to afford to move forward with an average of 30-80K in debt in four years?…the future for the job market looks bleaker and bleaker as each month goes by….
I keep meeting parents whose kids have graduated and they are 1)boomeranged(back with mom and dad) 2)still unemployed 3)back in school hoping a Master’s will help or market recovers and 4)working at high school level employment jobs…
My daughter’s logic is that she will probably have to relocate in order to get employment in her field of study and doesn’t want to be hampered with loan payments if she has to rent her first place. She also stated that it would be torture to be “on her own for 4 years” only to return home to “mom and dad.”
Where did these kids you speak of go to college? I’m guessing No Name State U?
This is the problem. Everyone goes to college because there is a college in every town these days. Some colleges have open admissions. Have a pulse? Congrats you’ve been accepted. And 1/2 of them can’t even write a coherent sentence, yet they are “college graduates”. A college degree is useless from a degree mill like that.
My advice to anyone in high school is: unless you can get into a Top 50 college, don’t bother.
“My advice to anyone in high school is: unless you can get into a Top 50 college, don’t bother.”
FWIW I know people with Ivy League degrees who are underemployed and I know young people with degrees from University of Wyoming, University of Colorado, Colorado State and University of Northern Colorado who are gainfully employed in their fields of study.
Are you more likely to succeed if you attend Yale as opposed to Mesa State College? Sure. But I know people who graduate from Mesa State who where able to find jobs.
Mesa state median starting salary: $36,100. That is $18 an hour.
You think spending 4 years in college is worth making $18 upon graduation? I don’t. There are lots of jobs that require no college that will pay $18 an hour. Why spend 4 years no working, and paying tuition to graduate with an $18 an hour job? It is ridiculous. And exactly the point I was trying to make.
Why you even attempt to flatter yourseIf with your self-perceived intellect is beyond me Eddie…
I was visiting a professor and her family this weekend. Her department’s internship program and graduate job placement is still going strong. She works primarily with IT and Engineering kids. The job fairs and on-campus recruiters aren’t what they used to be but they’re doing okay.
You might walk out of college with an engineering degree or something tucked under your arm but you’re really still a freakin’ “glorifed technican” until someone or company really trains you to function on the job or on your own.
They actually have better placements than many bigger name schools. Grounded businesses want educated and proven trainable workers and not high priced big school Prima Donna’s with sheepskins, especially in austerity and recession.
Smart businesses still contact her and her “no-name” university looking for sharp kids. Why ? These kids are NOT in love with themselves and their BS degrees. They want to and expect to work for a living and not to coast on the name of their university.
Because 96% of the kids in the system are from Wisconsin and if they DON’T have it yet, their professors have always have tried to instill good mid-west work ethics as well as provide a good quality basic college education for the price.
I have sometimes hung around with our her and our old Admissions Dean for HS Engineering Placement Testing. My kid walked out after testing and he just said. “Dad, there are some really smart kids in that room”. He could have gone college just about anywhere.
Her oldest starts this Fall…the university math department has no friends or favorites and is, as always, merciless and takes NO prisoners.
I have known her since she was a college freshman. She is one terrific, hard working woman and I was very proud when she got her Phd. She earned it and still does every year at a one of your so-called “no-name” colleges. The kids, parents and business contacts really appreciate her and I would venture to say she has a lot more friends in this world than you EVER will Eddie.
Eddie, you have said some pretty dumb things on HBB in your short time here, but this has to rank as the dumbest of the dumb statements I have heard on HBB, EVER, the 3 1/2 years I have been here.
I went to a no-name state school, famous for Guardsman shooting at students in May of 1970, and while I don’t have a Yale or Harvard diploma my program has a great reputation in my field. (Without the strangling student loans also)
Bill and Sean and cougar and everyone else who graduated from No Name U. Good for you. Exceptions to the rule.
After 15 years the median income for a Dartmouth grad is $129K.
Compare that to oh I dunno U of Wyoming since it was mentioned above, $80K
$129K vs. $80K. Yeah you’re right, there is no difference whatsoever. Unless you enjoy earning an extra $49K a year, then there may be just a teenie tiny bit of a difference.
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Comment by butters
2010-08-22 18:28:51
Dartmouth grads will most likely work in Northeast. Hence the higher salary.
Wyoming grads will mostly work in WY. Hence the lower salary.
80K in WY is still way better than 129K in NYC.
Comment by knockwurst
2010-08-22 19:44:39
Eddie, your math changed. You said nonamers only earn 18 bucks per hour. That’s not 80K a year, which is a decent salary in most of the US. I guess you didn’t study accounting in New Haven, eh?
Bill I believe you are some sort of IT contractor, yes? You would have done as well with or without a degree. IT work is about the skills you have, not your pedigree. If I hire someone to write some code I don’t care if he graduated middle school, I care if he can write code.
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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-08-22 21:25:18
$191,000 by the end of this year from January 1. Same last year but with a big tax break. Over $200k in 2008 and over $240k in 2007. Over $200k in 2006 also.
And I’m no IT guy. IT guys are involved in managing user accounts. They do not write software for embedded systems. They certainly do not analyze requirements for embedded systems, nor do they perform such software design.
I’m not a data base engineer either. I don’t do SQL.
There are so many different areas of software you are ignorant about.
You are too young to be aware that you develop good engineering methodology over time. With time you learn not to say “it works,” but be skeptical and be dam sure it works. As a contractor, that’s a given.
I did not tell you about all the mathematics I took in my undergraduate career. Happens that the texts were the same used by the Ivy league schools. Now you may be a non-technical type, but I tell you one thing: If you can solve the math problems that the Ivy leaguers can solve, and you are a state U student, that places you on an equal footing.
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-08-22 21:29:38
Eddie, you care if he can write code. But how do you prove that he can? I met people who have credentials up the ying yang who cannot write code.
But writing code is one thing. Getting it to do the task intended is another thing. A major thing you don’t know about. Proper testing with the hardware is the bottom line. And even that does not catch all the problems. Communication with system engineers and Integration Testers and Hardware is crucial. Requirements can change in the coding phase and then you have to find a very low cost way to make the changes that are necessary. It’s all about skill and experience, yes, but all this comes from having analytical skills you get in solving toy problems in college. It does not matter if it’s Ivy or State U.
Of course Eddie is wrong. He’s swallowed the hype of “top 50″ schools that just by attending, you’re part of an elite demographic and everyone else is headed for serfdom. Now that the “elite” have mucked up the Western World’s finances beyond repair, they’re attempting to disavow responsibility for the TEOWAWKI which is within smelling distance. Until then, the Eddies will blame the mess on others, hoping that those others dont come looking for them to square up accounts. Watch for serfs up coming to your state soon.
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Comment by cougar91
2010-08-22 18:24:52
>Bill and Sean and cougar and everyone else who graduated from No Name U. Good for you. Exceptions to the rule.
After 15 years the median income for a Dartmouth grad is $129K.
Compare that to oh I dunno U of Wyoming since it was mentioned above, $80K
$129K vs. $80K. Yeah you’re right, there is no difference whatsoever. Unless you enjoy earning an extra $49K a year, then there may be just a teenie tiny bit of a difference.
I didn’t say anything about no difference between earning powers of graduates of an average school vs. a top tier school. Empirical evidence refutes any denial of such.
My objection is to your broad statement that unless you got into a top 50 college, don’t even bother. I can also show you empirical evidence of earning disparities between HS grad and an average college grad.
Why do you put so little thought into your postings?
But I disagree with you..funny had a guy I know who was a “mortgage broker” during the good ole days who had dropped out of college. He said, “Look at me I am a SUCCESS STORY without college!”..fast forward today…he is a car salesman and the McMansion is gone…
No saying that college will make you success story..but I would not want to be in this world today, competing for a job..without that piece of paper…
by the way she is going to a great state school(which she had to QUALIFY TO GET IN)..”Not a for profit advertise at night private college.”
Misty - some unsolicated feedback; use what is helpful.
ON LIVING AT HOME - Wise idea. Take this year by year. I assume that you’ve discussed with your daughter that while maybe she stays home for Year 1, if she really wants to be independent, she can always move out for Year 2. It’s never an all-or-nothing game.
MASTER’S DEGREE - Don’t pursue it as a means to land a first job. A huge waste of money - and time. And opportunities. I have numerous friends in HR, and they immediately deep-six all applicants with a masters degree. They don’t even get considered. Their thinking is that the applicants will be overly trained/educated, or will feel entitled. Headhunters now are telling candidates not to mention their master’s degree either on paper or during interviews.
Instead, your daughter should get a part time job with a professional-type organization while in college and stick with it. If they pay minimum wage, fine. Show tenacity on the job, and an interest in picking up valuable and portable skills. She should look for ways to parlay her initial duties into something more within that organization.
Remember that 20-year-olds have lots of energy in spades. Regimented schedules are good. Daughter will find plenty of opportunity to socialize/party even if her schedule is regimented. She has ENERGY.
RELOCATION - You better believe it! If your daughter wants to land a job upon graduation, she needs to be willing to go almost anywhere. To do that, keep debt levels way down. She’ll also need to be willing to rent for a while. Renting doesn’t mean your unsuccessful. Instead, it means you aren’t trapped. Tell her to stay nimble.
Lots of folk even today can’t find a job because they can’t or won’t move.
Excellent advise CoSpgs4…..May I add, my daughter was advised by the professors at her University not to pursue her Masters until she worked post graduate for at least four years preferably five or six…
YES - that is correct. Spending another $30-50K on a masters that you may never use (because you’ve switched into a different field after graduation) is lunacy.
Your daughter’s professors gave wonderful advice. You need to live your career before you know anything. If you still like what you are doing after 4-6 years of doing it, THEN pursue a masters.
Send those professors a card, or give them a call to thank them.
If a person is willing to work they can get a job as a teaching or research assistant while pursuing the masters degree. It is additional work besides your coursework, but covers tuition and provides enough to live on modestly. In essence, pursuing your degree IS your job. And with the commercial economy how it is, hiding out in academia for a little while is not a bad way to go right now. Why pay for something they will pay you for?
Yes, I told her it was a option for her to move out in year two is she so wanted and live at school(we can afford the dorms)…her comment was that she would consider that as a serious option so long as it didn’ REQUIRE her to get into debt…
In regards to finding a PT job in field she is doing that right now…another reason why she is reluctant to leave…we are fortunate enough that she has learned the value of budgeting by the way we live our lives and knows that because of this she can afford to take job that may not give her the pay she would desire but definitely “priceless” experience…
Thank you for the advice..it is wonderful to see someone so young develope a quick understanding how a few years of “financial obligations” can affect the next 20 years…
It shocked me how many people..young and older..were standing in the line..by the way we visited the college about 4 times before registration and each time the line was the same..
Mostly due to demographics, Bill. Those born in the 1970s were fewer in number; hence, their relative success in finding high-paying jobs easily. Fewer bodies = less competition.
I agree Bill..this is not a normal economy..boomers are working longer…college grads are competing against people with 5-10 years of solid experience….
In the late 1970s to mid 1980s there was a glut of software types and a glut of engineers. I spent eight years off and on in a state university, not knowing what I wanted to major in. I finally admitted I was best at math and got out in 1985. Great timing, as the jobs were starting to be plentiful.
Yes, don’t get any student loan and I hope your daughter goes into a technical field. A MS will help. I do not regret getting my MSCS.
Friends graduated from UCSB in 1992. Still have student loan balances of around 100k between the two. She got a masters in Archeology (not digging that, or much else–she sell real estate; she sells sea shells by the seashore). He got an eminently more useful degree in geography GIS specialist. Worked for himself until clients not paying their invoices landed him in trouble. He sees california as largely boarded up once you escape the coast in his mapping travails.
But student loans, deferred ad nauseum as they have been, just are not going away. Only know that the products that they have really raised, their children, always been a priority for the wife, are wonderful priceless beings. I graduated initially in a pre-law program in 1992, and I am astounded that 18 years later students loans still haunt this couple.
i would also like to take this space to answer a few questions thrown my way yesterday.
Have I liked “playing” at real estate investing?
To dustball or whoever your moniker was; Stating that not moving out of my wifes unit while we await foreclosure just making us more of the problem may be a bit misguided. Staying or leaving will not change the auction date, so why not keep the place up and not let vagrants in, gaurd against freezing pipes this fall, etc? Sure we would like a little more time here, but we are willing to leave whenever the bank asks us to, when she no longer is owner of record occupying her owner occupied mortgage. Maybe that I took a bit of cash that was left over and purchased a home with it before the mortgage ate it all may peeve you but I would do it again cuz it will lower our monthly nut, not having a mortgage against our home.
Has “playing” at real estate investing been fun for me? Yes! After getting the only loan I ever had (wife has one now, tho she is not paying after three years and 160k real money in down and monthlies). Originally I put 60k down, earned by vegetable brokering and direct sales, on coastal real estate in 1995, in order to get a granny flat above a 3/2 to live in affordably. I did not foresee this home becoming a million dollar house, but it sure was fun to sell it!
This “playing” has allowed us no worries about money until now, allowed us to raise our children in a two parent household. i got to run a small business renting out a 3/2 to students while the four of us squeezed into 440 sq feet unit cuz the larger pad brought in PITI plus; “playing” landlord to students and later to folks in Bend was rewarding in the sense of learning about running a business, and the pitfalls of being a sometimes absentee landlord.
Tangible financial gains; I only got a paid off car and truck and one paid off home to show for it.
The intangibles; I ran a business as landlord for over a decade. Got to see why most people don’t like it much. I know enough about real estate to sell it for a small fee of say 6%. It is “funner” when you are selling your own property though. Who cares if you have to pay 10k to mitigate for toxic mold when you are making 500k on a deal? Being at home with children and having money to go to school and become a teacher; that was fun. DIY projects when selling homes–fun! Surfing for 15 years–when friends were surfing net or cubicle monkeys–way fun.
so we are renting out my paid for starter home while we await my wife’s foreclosure, is that what you take issue with?? Dont know what to tell you, wife not eligble for Obama’s brainstorming programs such as Cash for Keys if we leave. So we are being legitimally incentivized to stay in our home and keep it nice until the bell tolls for us! Sorry if I hijacked the student loan thread, please feel free to carry on like I never said/wrote a word.
‘Has “playing” at real estate investing been fun for me? Yes!’
Back in 2005-06, when a lot of stories ran through this blog about people living it up on the housing bubble, I began to form a personal theory about how it would unwind. I was living in a bubble crazy part of the world, where californians were buying million dollar houses sight -unseen, celebrities were building mega-mansions they rarely visited, and so-so local players were making a lot of money. It dawned on me that wealth wasn’t being created by all these activities, and that if I was right about the mania, it would have to be paid back, written off, or eaten by somebody at some point.
Keep in mind that many posters that have drifted by over the years weren’t renters that had never owned a house. Lots of folks had sold their place and many here including me were happy for them. But that doesn’t change the fact that the profits they took had to come from somewhere, and the economic carnage around us is the result.
Another huge problem about the housing bubble sits squarely in front of us today; that this mania diverted resources from productive parts of the economy for so long that we now find ourselves at a loss for jobs and it will take possibly decades to make that up, if we ever do.
I’m not blaming you for surfing for years while others were actually working for a living. I’m just saying that all this ‘playing’, which millions of people in the US did for a long time, has to be paid for, with interest.
“It dawned on me that wealth wasn’t being created by all these activities, and that if I was right about the mania, it would have to be paid back, written off, or eaten by somebody at some point.”
Any recent insights on how far out into the future this repayment phase will extend, and on whose backs the bulk of the burden will land?
I am thinking our children may be the ultimate bagholders; I am encouraging all of mine to study foreign languages…
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Comment by Rancher
2010-08-22 10:48:56
Here’s what bothers me. Where are the small business producers? Where are the small machine shops that used to produce widgets? Where are all the cabinet shops?
We drove 7k miles and four weeks going to and from Florida a month ago, traveling the
smaller routes, visiting smaller towns, skirting the major cities as much as possible.
What we saw was a swath of economic destruction that shocked my wife. Town after town, 25k-50k in population, dark windows everywhere, shops closed, small
factories shuttered, main streets empty.
We are not producing anything anymore.
And until we do, we aren’t coming back.
To come back, we have to lower wages to
bring down the price of goods, and when
you do that, no one will be able to afford
the products. An endless merry-go-round
of deflation.
‘we have to lower wages to
bring down the price of goods, and when
you do that, no one will be able to afford
the products’
The housing/stock bubbles didn’t happen in a vacuum, so a lot of long-term factors like globalism and military adventurism have fed a situation that doesn’t have easy solutions. But in the short term, there is some lemonade to be made out of the housing lemons. Namely, for most of us the biggest single expense is housing, and there isn’t any reason that cheap housing can’t be had by all. That would free up resources and make us more competitive.
Comment by CoSpgs4
2010-08-22 11:20:55
You’re only now THINKING that today’s 25-50 year-olds are going to be the bagholders?
Where have you been? For the past 20 years, people born from 1955 to 1970 have been making a lot of noise about how their standard of living will be in life-long decline, only to end in a bankrupt Social Security. Real wages for recent college graduates have declined for 25 years! Meanwhile, your generation’s dual-income, six figure household incomes have made everything you obtained out-of-reach for 100 million people younger than you.
See any problems there?
You’ve listened to those born after 1955 whine for the past 20 years. Don’t say you haven’t heard them. It’s been non-stop. You heard it, but ignored it, likely considering such people as unenlightened brats. Because God knows, those born after 1955 are doltish incompetents. SAT scores say so, don’t you know.
Odd that it’s taken your generation until now to realize that their irritating “whining” is fully justified.
You should thank your lucky stars that Gen-X doesn’t riot in the streets a la the 1960s. People of your generation would take it on the chin. Physically speaking.
Ironic, isn’t it? Your generation’s moralistic platitudes have bankrupted succeeding generations.
Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-08-22 11:23:00
Everybody know there’s no money to be made making stuff. You can make a lot more money in financial services. Manufacturing is where all those losers that don’t understand finance go.
Not only have the manufacturers been wiped out, but so have all those little mom and pop shops that provide subassemblies, tooling, components. etc. All that little stuff that makes the big stuff possible.
We have set ourselves up so that any “stimulus program” we create results in half of money being sent overseas, because you can’t buy it here anymore.
Comment by scdave
2010-08-22 11:29:28
Thats exactly what I see in my Motor Home travels Rancher…But to Ben’s point, if the cost of housing declines to the point where it is easily affordable that does free up resources for more productive means…
Comment by CoSpgs4
2010-08-22 11:32:10
A grass-roots effort at building bartering off-line exchanges also would help free up resources.
The government can’t tax transactions it is not aware of.
Being more competitive also necessitates that the American people put a stranglehold on your larcenous Political Class.
If you have to do without, so should they.
Comment by DennisN
2010-08-22 11:35:28
One of the synergies that made Silicon Valley famous was all of the “little mom and pop shops that provide subassemblies, tooling, components. etc. ” there that startups could turn to for making prototypes and limited production runs. Those small fab shops are going away. CAD is getting so good that prototypes can now be made elsewhere. Hence one more reason for SV to exist is draining away.
Comment by Rancher
2010-08-22 12:11:21
Well, yes and no.
Years ago I built widgets and thingamajigs.
I was having a 16 cavity injection mold being designed and the prevailing wisdom was to have it made overseas, specifically for this application, Taiwan. So before committing to anything, I visited 14 large and small custom molding houses throughout CA and found that what was thought to be true wasn’t.
It seems that, yes, initially the bids were much lower than domestic, but it turns out
that it took longer and ended up costing more because of the frequent trips back and
forth from here to Taiwan.
As it was, it took four re-works of the mold
before everything worked as I wanted it to,
and that was here.
This was after I had had three models done
at 10x scale by sterolithography to actually
work with the parts to see if my theories were correct in the design.
As far as I can see, it is getting cheaper every year to make things here, and we do
have the tooling and the talent to do so.
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-08-22 12:14:27
“Namely, for most of us the biggest single expense is housing, and there isn’t any reason that cheap housing can’t be had by all. That would free up resources and make us more competitive.”
That reminds me of something I was thinking about just this morning. I am wondering if Detroit might accidentally turn out to be one of the first American cities to recover during the Housing Bubble’s aftermath, as their housing prices have already reached affordable levels.
By contrast, California’s economy is likely to remain stuck in the toilet for much longer, due to home prices which are propped up on a quasi-permanently-high plateau.
I doubt it, same with Camden NJ Gary IN Oakland….we saw here in Harlem a big decline, until people of another color decided to buy brownstones the city was selling for $1…..
That is the key to somehow get YOUR kids to invest in Detroit………then others will follow
Umm, no, not long time readers here. If you’d been around in the old days, you would know that we beat that horse to death, dug it up a few times and beat it some more. I don’t remember anything constructive coming from it either.
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-08-22 14:06:13
You should thank your lucky stars that Gen-X doesn’t riot in the streets a la the 1960s.
Slacker riot! Let’s go! Gabba gabba hey! (I’m gonna be a little late, though…it’s my TV night. And I gotta wait til mom gets home with the car;-)
Comment by Eddie
2010-08-22 16:05:36
Why don’t small companies make widgets anymore?
Because the US business environment is hostile to it. You have unions, osha, epa, workers comp, liability inusrance, upcoming ObamaCare costs, fica. And that’s before you pay income tax on the meager profits you might make after going through the regulations.
In China you have….wages and some bribes. No unions, no osha, no minimum wage, no ObamaCare. None of it.
It’s really not hard to understand.
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2010-08-22 17:11:52
“Because the US business environment is hostile to it. You have unions, osha, epa, workers comp, liability inusrance, upcoming ObamaCare costs, fica. And that’s before you pay income tax on the meager profits you might make after going through the regulations.”
Pure, unfettered horsesh!t. It’s because of poorly designed trade agreements and tax laws which allow US companies to take advantage of exceedingly cheap labor overseas. Wake up, troll.
To come back, we have to lower wages to
bring down the price of goods, and when
you do that, no one will be able to afford
the products. An endless merry-go-round
of deflation.
Exactly. There had to come a day when the rising vector of prices crossed the falling vector of wages.
If we are not at that point now, we will be the next time.
“Keep in mind that many posters that have drifted by over the years weren’t renters that had never owned a house. Lots of folks had sold their place and many here including me were happy for them. But that doesn’t change the fact that the profits they took had to come from somewhere, and the economic carnage around us is the result.”
Fantastic post, Ben. Especially salient IMO is the above.
Slowly, people older than 55 are starting to realize that they profited mightily off the backs of their juniors. It’s amazing how long it’s taking then to “get it.”
Those who can’t sell their $500K + McMansions after 1-4 years of trying are understanding the scenario first. Very few people their junior have anywhere near the income or assets to buy such hedonism-driven monstrosities.
And with things like Fannie/Freddie, ObamaCare, Cap & Trade either on the horizon or proposed, the few number of people that could buy today won’t be able to tomorrow.
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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-08-22 15:55:53
Your post reminds me once again why the Fed needs to create more inflation in order to reflate the bubble. Otherwise, those on fixed pensions will enjoy the fruits of deflation while younger generations go jobless, underhoused and hungry, which would be unfair.
Intergenerational reallocation from old to young seems the only way forward.
Comment by Carlos4
2010-08-22 17:29:02
You’re converging with Aladinsane….. better late than never.
The profits we took were from people who secured 0 down loans which we never partook of. they stole furniture and bolted down stuff and then foreclosed. While surfing it up, my wife and I continued to sell vegetables, albeit with the kids, and having hours that consisted of 4 10 hour days.
This allowed me to accrue the down and live the life for a few years, sorry for portraying myself as a surf BUM. I always worked until my back discs gave out on me, and since my insurance refused the surgery I had after the fact, and I could pay the docs cash for the procedure on my cervical spine. Now the insurance refuses to pay for FDA approved drugs claiming that their mixture of non-endorsed generics are just as good. Never mind I had tried those already. So medical costs for our family continue to be 20k per year out of pocket, we are scrambling to make ends meet, and granted the gains we made were at the expense of others, there exist deeper pockets clamboring for every penny we have. So I will take my paid off house and use it to live in in case we need to use it as a financial shelter.
Thank you Ben for this blog. I prefer lurking but see no need to hide from my personal interaction and gain/loss profile with this bubble. And selling at the top did not stop us from having our pants down when we doubled down, so it is now someone else’s turn to make some gain on us.
Glad we don’t have student loans, it is good to be 100k ahead than 100k behind given I still have a marketable skill from a bottom 50 college (Eastern Oregon U. teaching cred.) and I am studying Spanish hard to find a niche as a teacher cuz jobs are not hanging like summer peaches!
Until ownership actually transfers to the bank, you are probably responsible for any injuries that might happen on the property. It makes sense to me to stay there until the auction.
Then again, perhaps that is one factor not two, as the boomers inflated stock prices (like everything else during their lives) in the buying phase, leading to poor performance when selling, especially since the generations behind them, now buying, are poorer.
This story likely is written by a boomer, who thinks the world stops with them. What nonsense.
There are plenty of people worldwide to more than support stock growth. Several hundreds of millions, if not billions, would invest if their governments and fellow abettors weren’t so corrupt.
Once individual investors begin feeling that won’t be fleeced by those in charge, the markets will come back.
“Once individual investors begin feeling that won’t be fleeced by those in charge, the markets will come back.”
I agree with you that there is a general distrust of the markets. Flash crashes contribute to this. Small investors are competing against computer programs and institutions that have teams of people who can spend 24 hours a day watching the markets. This is one reason I opposed privatization of SS. There are only so many things in which one person can be expert. If I hire experts, then some of my profits go to pay them for the same advice they are giving everyone else. And I still have to watch them to be sure they aren’t ripping me off.
Also from the article:
“According to the Investment Company Institute, which surveys 4,000 households annually, the appetite for stock market risk among American investors of all ages has been declining steadily since it peaked around 2001, and the change is most pronounced in the under-35 age group.”
I wonder how much is risk aversion vs simply not having the cash/too busy paying off student loans.
BTW, your anti-boomer screed is tiresome. You have some insights to contribute and I appreciate them. In the end, the boomers are just a big bunch of individuals each trying to maximize their lives based on their own priorities. Isn’t that what the free marketers are always saying we should do?
Wait four years for the locust swarm to pass. Then buy what they sold. Gotta be loaded with cash in the meantime. eight years for real estate, four years for stocks, four years for technical college degree. I profited by postponing my college graduation and by staying out of the RE bubble when my boomer friends were laughing at me for refusing to become a FB.
“As Argentina goes, so goes America in the race to see which country will go down in history as the worst kleptocracy”.
“As we see here, Argentina, jumping the gun on what Americans can anticipate with the newly announced deal between Google and Verizon; is consolidating power in the Internet space”. ~Clipped from Max Kieser.
Argentina orders Internet provider shut down
BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) - Argentina’s government on Friday ordered the closure one of the nation’s three leading Internet providers, demanding that Grupo Clarin immediately inform “each and every one” of its more than 1 million customers that they have 90 days to find new ways of getting online.
The order says Grupo Clarin—which has grown through mergers to become one of Latin America’s leading media companies—illegally absorbed the Fibertel company through its Cablevision subsidiary in January 2009 because it failed to obtain prior approval from the commerce secretary.
Cablevision denied that Friday, citing a previous approval obtained in 2003, and planned to appeal, accusing the government of continuing a campaign to stifle opposition viewpoints.
President Cristina Fernandez has made dismantling Grupo Clarin a priority of her government. A new law that has been challenged in court would force the company to break apart in a drive to dissolve media monopolies.
Edward Hanway, the former CEO of CIGNA was provided with a retirement package worth $110.9 million, paid for by the excessive and unnecessarily high insurance premiums billed to CIGNA’s policy holders.
Medical bankruptcies now account for more than one half of all personal bankruptcies filed in the U.S. each year. However, the excessive out-of-pocket costs have become leading contributors to America’s one million medical bankruptcies reported each year. Keep in mind that medical bankruptcy is virtually unheard of outside of the U.S.
Amazingly, according to medical researchers at Harvard, between 50 to 78% of all medical bankruptcies are filed by individuals who actually had full health insurance.
That means that co-payments and other out-of-pocket costs alone are enough to wipe out the savings of millions of Americans who purchased health insurance as a financial shield.
Once you examine all of the data, it’s easy to see that America’s health insurance system doesn’t provide real insurance. It’s really a very costly system of pre-paid medical that sticks you with a large chunk of the bill when you really need medical care the most.
While millions of Americans continue to struggle with the consequences of the most colossal and fraudulent transfer of wealth in world history, health insurance companies continue to ratchet down their vice of control over the nation’s healthcare system, with double-digit increases in premiums and soaring payouts to industry executives. Indeed, profits from the nation’s largest health insurers are soaring.
During the first half of 2010, health insurers’ profits on average soared by more than 20%. Leading the pack was Aetna, with earnings skyrocketing to more than 40% in the second quarter of 2010 versus a year earlier.
According to reports from the seven largest health insurers’, the proportion of premium dollars spent on medical care (known as the Medical Loss Ratio, or MLR) in recent quarters has declined by a significant amount. CIGNA led the way with a 6.4% reduction in the second quarter of this year, down from 85.2% to 78.8% MLR. This year-over-year decline in MLR is unprecedented.
Sadly, America’s tightly controlled corporate media monopoly has convinced the vast majority of Americans to think they have a democracy, and that “things will be better when the republicans (or democrats) are in office.”
President Obama’s healthcare reform requires health insurers to provide higher quality care at lower administrative costs. According to the new law, health insurers will be required to spend 80 to 85% of policy holders’ premium (the MLR) on medical care.
However, because Obama failed to mandate (a badly needed system of) federal regulation for the entire insurance industry, it’s up to each state insurance commission to draft the specific regulations pertaining to the insurance portion of the law.
We are now seeing health insurers play the same game mastered by the credit card industry. As the new healthcare law draws closer to implementation, insurers have raised the administrative costs while lowering the premium dollars to be spent on medical care (MLR) so as to “grandfather” the system when it comes time for the new guidelines to be made.
“That means that co-payments and other out-of-pocket costs alone are enough to wipe out the savings of millions of Americans who purchased health insurance as a financial shield.”
That doesn’t follow. There could be credit card debt, auto debt. HELOC debt, then a medical problem shows up and it’s the last straw. There are usually lots of reasons for a BK, though calling it medical sounds better than the other.
Election Deadlock May Weaken Australian Dollar as Investors Avoid Stocks
Australia’s dollar may fall and equities investors may look to other markets after the nation’s federal election failed to deliver a majority government for the first time in 70 years, according to market analysts.
With the expiration of the $8K first time buyer federal tax credit behind us and the $10K first time buyer CA state tax credit expiration soon to come, I don’t know how these flippers expect to make a profit by purchasing foreclosure homes now, unless by investing sweat equity into homes which have started to fall apart due to sitting vacant too long. If that is what they are doing, then I say, “Happy flippin’ to ya”…
Squeezing out amateurs, private equity funds and wealthy individuals are buying distressed properties at public auctions, refurbishing them and selling them for quick profits.
August 20, 2010
By Walter Hamilton and Alejandro Lazo, Los Angeles Times
Hoping there are big profits to be made in the aftermath of California’s housing collapse, professional investors are flocking to the business of buying foreclosed homes at distressed prices.
The investors, primarily private equity funds and groups of wealthy individuals, purchase the homes at public auctions, which are held daily on the steps of local courthouses. They refurbish the properties and try to sell them for quick profits.
…
People addicted to the proposition that unless you are getting a 10-15% ROI, you are “losing” money. Preserving cash in an economic environment like we have today is for losers.
There is something puzzling about the whole idea of investors snapping up foreclosures well before the housing market has even bottomed out, isn’t there?
I’ve been to a to few auctions and let me tell you, by the time the bidding is done, nobody a got a deal. You could go to one every week for months and you MIGHT find a deal.
I’ve also remodeled and help flip a few houses and unless you get the property for literally pennies on the dollar, you won’t make money.
Those 2 factors alone are what makes the article smell fishy. If I had to guess, I would say it’s just outright propaganda.
Housing Can Find a Home Without Fannie, Freddie: Caroline Baum
Bloomberg Opinion ~ Caroline Baum
You are President Barack Obama, and your Summer of Recovery is looking like most lawns in the Northeast.
You succeeded in getting a financial reform bill through Congress, with many of the rules to be delivered in the future. But you have yet to address those malefactors of the mortgage market, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which are bleeding cash — almost $150 billion since the government seized them two years ago. What do you do?
1. Let Nancy Pelosi figure it out.
2. Let Barney Frank figure it out.
3. Appoint a blue-ribbon commission to come up with options.
4. Convene a conference featuring a big-name panel of experts, give it a lot of advance hype, and hold a public hearing where the panelists can look appropriately serious as they talk amongst themselves.
Obama chose No. 4. Anyone interested in the proceedings could hear opening remarks from Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan, the co-hosts. Then came two panel discussions before the attendees left for working breakout lunches. The menu wasn’t included on the agenda.
The public got a bird’s-eye view into the process when the government should be focused on principles.
To its credit, Treasury asked all the right questions when it sought public input on reforming housing finance in April. What is the proper role for government? Should that role vary depending on the segment of the market? What can we learn from other countries, such as Canada, that escaped the ravages of the housing boom/bust?
Poor Return
The answers to those questions are a sticking point for any reform. It’s fair to say the participants agreed on only two things: 1) the government’s involvement in 90 percent of mortgage originations is too big; and 2) Fannie and Freddie can’t remain quasi-private, quasi-public entities.
Treasury and HUD didn’t need to stage a conference to learn the U.S. isn’t getting its money’s worth from the substantial housing subsidy it provides, as Moody’s Analytics chief economist Mark Zandi told the audience. Or that those subsidies channel resources to housing that could go to more productive areas of the economy. Or that the country can no longer afford them.
BAE Systems to lay off 124 at western Pa. plant
The Associated Press
UNIONTOWN, Pa. — Defense contractor BAE Systems plans to lay off 124 workers - half of the work force - at its western Pennsylvania plant beginning in mid-October.
The company Friday attributed the Fayette County layoffs to a decline in military spending.
BAE mostly builds Bradley Fighting Vehicles at the North Union Township plant. Spokesman Randy Coble said the military’s demand for the plant’s services was greatest about two years ago, at the peak of the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.
A required notice filed with the state says BAE will lay off 53 workers in October, 63 in December and eight in January. Most of those to be laid off are production line employees. The company, which has a larger plant in York County, separately laid off 11 people this week.
After steadily rising for several months, Peninsula home sales plummeted to near-historic lows in July as demand remained tepid and the federal homebuyer tax credits that had helped caffeinate the marketplace in the past year finally went away.
San Mateo County saw 463 sales of single-family resale homes, the lowest for a July in 20 years. In Santa Clara County, the 1,159 single-family resale homes that closed escrow represented a drop of 24.3 percent from the 1,531 sold a year earlier, making this the second-slowest July since 1990, according to figures released Thursday by the real estate information service MDA DataQuick.
And even though median prices rose in July from a year earlier, with a 7.2 percent rise in San Mateo County and an 8 percent increase in Santa Clara County, there are signs that recent home-price appreciation is losing steam. DataQuick’s sales figures for new and existing homes in the Bay Area show that the most recent price increase is the lowest in 10 months of steady gains.
Various factors helped pull down sales, but the loss of the federal tax credit made the drop especially dramatic, and DataQuick President John Walsh said his numbers hint at continued cloudiness in a real estate market being hammered by stubbornly high unemployment, meager job growth and tight credit.
“Some potential buyers, including those who held off until the tax credits expired, will take their time to assess market conditions, searching for signs of renewed price cuts,” said Walsh. “Depending on the economy and other factors, that might be what some of them find, especially in areas with a growing number of homes for sale — particularly distressed properties.”
…
Residential sales in July fell 27.8% from last year as the market heads forward without the homebuyer tax credit, according to the real estate brokerage chain RE/MAX.
In July, home sales fell 30% from June. The homebuyer tax credit, which gave a $8,000 to first-time homebuyers and $6,500 to existing ones, had an April 30 deadline to sign a sales contract. Double-digit drops have been common since. Pending home sales plummeted 30% in May, according to the National Association of Realtors (NAR). Two weeks after the credit expired, mortgage applications dropped 27.1%, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA).
RE/MAX surveyed closed transactions reported to multiple listing services (MLS) in 54 metropolitan areas. In each, sales were down from last year. July home sales in Houston dropped 25% from last year, according to the Houston Association of Realtors (HAR).
“With the expiration of the tax credit, home sales are making a serious correction, and it may take a couple of months for sales to find their footing,” according to the report.
Bill Gassett, a real estate agent with RE/MAX Executive Realty in Hopkinton, Mass. said even though he’s had a great year — thanks to some good fortune in securing quality listings — showings are beginning to slow.
“There certainly has been a slow down since the tax credit expired though. I have been fortunate in that I have had some very nice listings in attractive price points where there is not a lot of inventory,” Gassett said. “The amount of showings has decreased substantially over the last few months across the board in all price points.”
Gassett added, though, that REO buyers, usually investors, may not be concerned with a tax credit.
Despite the drop in sales, prices have remained level. The median sales price for July was $212,524, still 1.3% more than last year and only a 0.5% dip from the previous month. The highest climb came in San Francisco, where prices increased 16% — a trend the Northern California market’s seen across multiple indices. Prices in Boston rose 10%, and Honolulu climbed 9% from last year.
…
Related Stories
* Home sales in Houston fall 25% from last year: HAR
* Pending Home Sales Plummet 30% with Tax Credit Gone: NAR
* Pending Home Sales Up Again as Homebuyer Tax Credit Expires: NAR
* April Existing Home Sales Surge Ahead of Tax Credit Deadline
Oh no. “Obviously” the housing market cannot stand on its own two feet without myriad government subsidies, which will soon have to be reinstated in order to keep the flow of campaign finance coming in from the REIC.
You would be surprised at how many other industries would be unable to stand on their own without massive tax breaks and other government “incentives.”
That’s Fine with me….the sooner the better……throw the deadbeat bums out
Its the squatting in your “home” that is getting me so angry…sure it was fun to hear the stories a last year on this board of the peeps in FloorRiddah…not paying for 2 years..but now its way beyond just giving us the middle finger
Could a similar scenario play out some time soon in FL or CA? One can always hope…
The Financial Times
Greeks sell their yachts to avoid tax investigations
By Kerin Hope in Athens
Published: August 22 2010 16:18 | Last updated: August 22 2010 16:18
“For sale” signs have appeared on a handful of gleaming Italian-made power boats and luxury motor-yachts after a team from SDOE, Greece’s financial police, visited the crowded Alimos marina near Athens.
Other yacht owners are trying to sell their craft by word of mouth as SDOE steps up a crackdown on tax evasion by high-earning Greeks.
“Make some discreet enquiries and you’ll find plenty of sellers,” said a marine technician who asked not to be named, gesturing towards a large vessel flying a Cayman Islands flag.
With first-half budget revenues lagging behind projections, the finance ministry is trying to boost tax inflows by attacking “lifestyle” tax evasion.
Last week it set a target of collecting at least €2.5bn this year in fines and back taxes owed by thousands of Greeks who “forgot” to declare ownership of yachts, swimming pools and luxury cars on their annual tax return.
“Among the big-ticket items were power boats costing up to €1.5m,” said Theodoros Floratos, a SDOE official co-ordinating the investigation of yacht owners.
…
Roots of sales-tax hike lie in city pension increases Key votes in 1996 and 2002 boosted top 20 pensions by 176 percent
By Danielle Cervantes, UNION-TRIBUNE
Craig Gustafson, UNION-TRIBUNE
Saturday, August 21, 2010 at 11:36 p.m.
COMING MONDAY: Who are San Diego’s top 20 pensioners, and what would their pensions have been without key city votes in 1996 and 2002?
The push for a half-cent increase to San Diego’s sales tax has just begun, but it actually goes back to past decisions by city leaders who chose short-term political expediency over the long-term interests of taxpayers.
The deals struck by labor leaders and city officials in 1996 and 2002 created a financial windfall for thousands of city workers, some of whom enjoy double or triple the pensions they would have under the previous program, according to an analysis of pension records by The Watchdog.
For example, the highest-paid retiree in the city’s pension system, former Assistant City Attorney Eugene Gordon, would have been due an annual benefit of roughly $64,600 after his 34 service years if city leaders hadn’t significantly increased retirement benefits.
Instead, bumped-up pension formulas entitled him to more than $155,000 annually when he retired in 2008. Factor in cost-of-living adjustments and special add-on programs approved by past city administrations and his current annual take is about $187,000.
To put that in perspective, a private retiree would need a nest egg of $3.8 million earning 5 percent a year to produce an income stream to equal $187,000 in the first year, plus 2 percent annual cost-of-living adjustments the city allows.
That person would be out of money after 30 years, whereas the city pension is in place for life.
The Watchdog reviewed data for Gordon and the city’s other 19 top pensioners. It found that, on average, pension boosts and programs approved by the city made them eligible for pensions 176 percent higher than they would have been.
…
METHODOLOGY
The Watchdog analysis included information about the pensions of 4,153 current service retirees and survivors, provided by the San Diego Employees’ Retirement System (excluding disability pensions). The data consisted of monthly allowances paid in February and was annualized for yearly figures.
The analysis arrived at three key data points:
Current pension: For the current benefit, no extrapolation was necessary. The Watchdog used data for actual payments issued by the retirement system that may include cost-of-living adjustments; payouts from city programs such as the Deferred Retirement Option Plan, or DROP; and credit from a program in which employees purchase credit for years they did not work. Overall figures in the story regarding pension trends and averages are based on this data.
Initial pension benefit: This figure was calculated to show an expected pension benefit with enhanced pension formulas and programs in effect at the time all top 20 pensioners retired. It was calculated using highest salary, years of service, age at retirement and a pension multiplier, all supplied by retirement officials. Because of the way the data was released, the estimates include purchased service credits but not payments from the DROP program, which allows employees to collect pension money in a special account before they retire. Individual circumstances are not captured in the analysis, which was designed to illustrate the scope of the benefit changes.
What that benefit would have been without key city votes: For the estimate of how the initial allowance would have differed without the 1996 and 2002 benefit boosts, the analysis used salary, service years and age at retirement and then applied the lower pension multipliers that were in effect until 1997. Again, individual circumstances and decisions about matters such as beneficiary payments would have changed actual payouts in a way that is not reflected in the data or the analysis.
To calculate pensions with and without the 1996 and 2002 votes, the newspaper was provided the highest one-month salary for the top 20 pensioners, a figure that was annualized to estimate the highest one-year salary. For the top 20 pensioners who were enrolled in DROP, the year of retirement was calculated per retirement system practices as the entry into the program, not the actual year that work stopped.
Each pensioner’s date of birth was not provided, although month of birth was. Therefore, a small number of retirement ages used in the analysis may be off by one year. For the top 20, a date of birth was determined using other public records.
Individual circumstances that may have affected initial payout — and estimated payout without key city votes — include lawsuit settlement groups, beneficiary options, tax law and employee contribution levels.
Finally, to figure the estimated nest egg that a private citizen would need to match the top city pensioner’s income, The Watchdog relied on the expertise of Jon Beyrer of Blankinship & Foster.
Journalism that upholds the public trust, regularly
These raises were justified at the time because of “the cost of living in California” (which includes the cost of putting a roof over your head).
We all now know that those costs were way out of whack, due to the housing Ponzi scheme.
Adjustments in pensions are totally justified. Grown-ups would take a look around and do something pro-active, instead of having a solution rammed down their throats. Of course, that will never happen.
Coming soon to cities/counties/ states near you: Strategic bankruptcies by same, to “renegotiate” their pension liabilities.
San Diego has Bankruptcy written all over it. Math just does not work. Cost of retirements, loans, etc far in the red. Put on a happy face with rose glasses and everything will be just fine!
The Great San Diego Pension Grab worked out fabulously for the cream of the current crop of retirees. Too bad the city government, including the future generation of San Diego City Workers, has to get hosed as a result.
…
• More than 450 city retirees, or about one in 10, have annual pensions above $80,000. That puts them in the top 1 percent of all Americans in retirement income.
…
In large part because of the 1996 and 2002 benefit increases, the city’s annual pension payment has grown.
In 2002, it was $54 million, or 7 percent of the operating budget.
Currently, the payment is $232 million, or 21 percent of the operating budget.
By 2025, it’s projected to be $512 million, or nearly 47 percent of the operating budget, if no changes are made to pensions or budgets.
…
“By 2025, it’s projected to be $512 million, or nearly 47 percent of the operating budget, if no changes are made to pensions or budgets.”
Is it realistic to believe that San Diego could allocate 47 percent of its operating budget to pension contributions, or is this merely a polite way of saying that either the city is bankrupt, the pension is busted, or both?
Inflation would solve these problems without the need for unpleasantness like bankruptcy. I refer of course to WAGE INFLATION.
The big problem is that we are seeing wage deflation, which is amplifying the retirement issue, as tax revenues are falling, and the guaranteed payments are effectively growing.
I know a retired cop in NV in his early to mid 50’s who is pulling down over $70k annually in retirement checks and I think his top title was Sargent. This guy could live another 30 years. The situation is totally unsustainable.
I would not object if he is really really retired. he should have to prove each year by his income tax that he has no other jobs…..otherwise he should not collect till 65 at the least.
Oh, he’s most definitely working another job. But, even if he wasn’t, paying every retired cop $70k+ in NV just isn’t going to work out when the taxpayer footing the bill is making half that.
Obama Administration Defends Lackluster Foreclosure Programs; Says Interest Rates Will Remain Low To Help Housing Market
First Posted: 08-20-10 10:18 AM | Updated: 08-20-10 10:18 AM
The official touted the ever-growing pipeline of homes likely to enter foreclosure as a success in the administration’s fight to stem the rising tide of home foreclosures. It’s taking longer for homes to enter foreclosure, and it’s taking longer to evict homeowners once they enter foreclosure. The so-called “shadow inventory” of homes — those with severely delinquent mortgages, in foreclosure or already repossessed that have not yet been put on the market — has significantly grown since the administration took office and is estimated to range from 5 to 7 million homes. Through June, borrowers in foreclosure have been delinquent for an average of 461 days before being evicted from their homes, according to Jacksonville, Fla.-based data provider Lender Processing Services.
That’s a good thing, the official said, because it gives the market time to absorb these homes gradually — without leading to a dramatic drop in home prices. While analysts disagree — prices will decline when those homes flood the market, which many, like Mark Hanson, a housing industry analyst based in California, believe to be a virtual certainty — the official pointed to the futures market where traders are betting that home prices will remain stable through the fall of 2014.
“…the official pointed to the futures market where traders are betting that home prices will remain stable through the fall of 2014.”
Do these ‘traders’ potentially include governments with unlimited financial fire power and an objective of convincing everyone that home prices have stopped declining?
I applaud the U-T’s move towards objective reporting on the San Diego real estate picture, away from cheerleading. This is a sea change from the approach during the bubble years.
Each week the Business section will ask its panel of economists to weigh in on an economic issue of issue to San Diegans. They’ll answer yes or no, up or down or give a neutral response. Sometimes they might be unavailable to participate.
If you have a question you’d like them to address, send it to roger.showley@uniontrib.com. Feel free to add your comments, as well.
This week’s question: In light of the latest MDA DataQuick figures showing sales down in July and prices slightly up from June:
Do you think San Diego’s housing market – prices and sales – will fall between now and the year’s end in the wake of the end to federal and state tax rebates?
Has there ever previously been an 80 percent collapse in CA home construction over a five-year period? I’m thinking maybe during the 1930s, but probably not since.
Homebuilding output in California declined more sharply than previously indicated, according to a construction industry report today.
…
The downfall of the California housing industry last year was worse than previously reported, according to a key industry report released Wednesday.
In 2009, new home construction in California contributed $13.8 billion to the state’s economy and employed nearly 77,000 workers, according to an updated study by the California Homebuilding Foundation and Center for Strategic Economic Research. That’s half a billion dollars less than the groups reported earlier this year.
… The industry’s output has dropped 80 percent over the past five years, representing a loss of tens of billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of jobs. At its peak in 2005, the housing industry generated $67.7 billion dollars and 487,000 jobs.
The report shows that the impact of the decline in housing went far beyond the construction industry. Every dollar spent on new housing construction in California generates another 80 cents in total economic activity and that each job created through residential construction supports an additional 1.2 jobs, according to the report.
“The downturn in building activity has also generated a considerable decline in all of the sectors that supply goods and services to the construction industry as well as those that benefit from workers spending their wages,” said Ryan Sharp, director of the economic research center.
…
Yesterday morning (a Saturday), a pipe started leaking that goes to my bathroom which was soaking the carpet in the master bedroom closet.
I had a wedding to go to, so I stopped by the resident manager’s apartment (yes, I rent), who promptly got on taking care of things. The plumber is here right now (on a Sunday) fixing it–he just went outside since it looks like the problem is more severe than he originally though.
Just another one of the joys of renting… I don’t even want to think about how much major repairs cost to get done on a Sunday, nor having to worry about replacing water soaked carpets.
Matter of fact, I put in an online request last evening to get maintenance to fix my A/C which was leakingbagain - happened three weeks ago. Maintenance came in at 10:00 this morning and fixed it. Hopefully no more problem till next summer. I love renting from a large corporation (equity residential, coast to coast apartments) - very carefree living!
Plumbing’s fixed — $28 a day on rent is a *great* deal, especially when I remember how much it cost to get my septic tank fixed in the dead of winter when it decided to back up (with the ground frozen). (Oh, and that $28/day includes water, hot water, trash, etc.)
I know PB warned about the “bond bubble” yesterday and some also chimed in with agreement. However here is the counter-argument from someone who has a lot of the credibility in the economic blogsphere (The Pragmatic Capitalist, who got all the big macro econo calls correctly the at least the last 5 years I have read him/her):
There is increasing chatter of the great “bond bubble” as U.S. Treasury bonds surge ever higher and deflation fears rise. This is just one more myth that has persisted in recent years (decades really) due to mass misconception of the way the bond market actually operates and this propensity to label everything as a “bubble”.
……………
There is ever increasing chatter of a bubble in the U.S. bond market. This idea of a bubble has become pervasive due to the myth that the U.S. government bond market can and will collapse under mounting fiscal burdens and the idea that bonds are “expensive” when compared to other assets.
Over the years investors have become increasingly concerned about the risk of sovereign default in the United States. China officially “hates” us. Alan Greenspan is frightened that the bond vigilantes are merely sleeping. Jeff Gundlach is worried that the United States is already insolvent. But are these concerns justified?
Ignore the experts, and answer some questions for yourself:
1) How often have current conditions in the Treasury bond market, including the levels of interest rates and the yield spread between the short- and long-ends of the yield curve, ever existed before?
2) What typically happens after asset prices go parabolic on thinning volumes?
THINK, PEOPLE — DON’T TAKE THE EXPERTS’ WORD FOR IT!
“Some market participants have gone so far as to compare the U.S. bond market to the Nasdaq bubble. This is simply not a fair comparison. The Nasdaq declined 90% from peak to trough. If you buy a 10 year government bond and hold it to maturity you will receive your principle back in full in addition to the coupon payments. If inflation jumps from the currently low levels to 5% you will be sacrificing 2.5% per year in real terms. Certainly not a winning pick, but nowhere near what the apocalyptic results of the Nasdaq bubble were. “
I think one of the author’s points was that a bubble, by definition, pops with severe consequences for its investors. He then points out that the worst case scenario with treasuries is you make less than inflation, which would only be devastating in a hyper-inflationary scenario. So calling it a bubble is misleading.
“He then points out that the worst case scenario with treasuries is you make less than inflation, which would only be devastating in a hyper-inflationary scenario.”
Either I miss the point, or he is wrong. Suppose, for instance, that inflation turned out to be ‘higher than expected’ over the next 30 years — say, seven percent annual on average instead of zero-to-negative. If you bought a 30-year bond at a yield of, say, four percent, then later learned that inflation was running at seven percent per year, you would be losing about three percent of the value of your investment each year — no big deal, right?
Except that, due to the magic of compounding, a three percent annual loss translates into a loss of 50 percent over a 24 year period (you know, the rule of 72?… 72/3 = 24) and a loss of ((1/1.03)^30-1)*100 = 59 percent of the principle value of your investment over thirty years.
Once the inflation cat was out of the bag and priced into yields, it would not be possible to sell your Treasurys without incurring a large capital loss.
Ask anyone who held long-term Treasurys during the latter-half of the 1970s if you don’t believe this could happen. No hyper-inflation is necessary.
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by cougar91
2010-08-22 16:15:25
>Except that, due to the magic of compounding, a three percent annual loss translates into a loss of 50 percent over a 24 year period (you know, the rule of 72?… 72/3 = 24) and a loss of ((1/1.03)^30-1)*100 = 59 percent of the principle value of your investment over thirty years.
You are talking about loss “after inflation”, certainly not in “principle value”. You never lose your principle in a bond investment unless the issuer defaults. And also I doubt very much inflation will hold steady in your example over the course of a 30 years bond held from issuance to maturity.
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-08-22 17:47:16
“And also I doubt very much inflation will hold steady in your example over the course of a 30 years bond held from issuance to maturity.”
You misquoted me; I said “on average,” not that inflation would “hold steady.”
All it takes is a a decade worth of double-digit inflation to offset many years of low inflation to get to a seven percent average over thirty years. For instance, suppose inflation was at 4% on average for twenty years out of thirty; if the (geometric) mean was 13.3% for the remaining ten years, the average over the entire period would be 7%.
If the above description qualifies as “hyperinflation” in your terminology, then I guess I agree with you.
Comment by cougar91
2010-08-22 18:37:21
Using your reasoning, then the following is also possible: some years of deflation, some years of low inflation, and a bout of high inflation over the life of the long bond. If this happens then you may not lose any money at all in the end on that bond. It all depends on how many years of each scenario take hold.
Look, I don’t know what’s going to happen going forward but to me a bubble is formed by greed, not by fear (the bond trade). Can bond be overpriced when inflation is higher than expected down the road? Yeap. But it won’t be anything close to a bubble in RE or a bubble in stocks.
BTW, I have no long position in bonds myself, except foreign currency bonds unhedged.
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-08-22 18:38:02
All it takes is a a decade worth of double-digit inflation
Have we ever had double digit inflation for 10 out of 30 years in American history?
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-08-22 18:44:24
“Have we ever had double digit inflation for 10 out of 30 years in American history?”
My example got you a 59 percent real loss on holding 30-year T-bonds. Milder scenarios (e.g. double-digit inflation for less than 10 years) will get you a lower, but still substantial, loss (e.g. 30 percent).
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-08-22 20:14:54
But your 59 percent loss example calls for economic conditions that have never occurred in our history. Your milder examples, which are perhaps more likely, result in losses that are manageable over time.
A 30 percent loss over 30 years isn’t a popped bubble, it’s a bad investment. That was the author’s point. He wasn’t saying treasuries were a good investment, he was saying they don’t appear to be in a bubble unless you believe we’re about to experience unprecedented inflation.
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-08-22 20:48:08
“A 30 percent loss over 30 years isn’t a popped bubble, it’s a bad investment.”
Our perspectives are clearly orthogonal. I don’t expect some kind of smooth loss over thirty years, but rather the same sort of expectations shock that ended the tech stock bubble and the housing bubble and the beanie baby bubble to end the bond market bubble.
You have worn out my patience to discuss this further. I suggest you read the article in the current edition of The Economist on this topic or research what happened to the value of Treasurys over the 1975-1982 period if you are sincerely interested in educating yourself.
Or, if you are feeling mathematically inclined, run the numbers: Look at the value of a 30-yr Treasury at a 4 pct yield compared to its value at, say, a 7 pct yield. You can use MS Excel to compare the value of a $1000 face value 30-yr Treasury paying 4 percent coupons (= 2% every six months + $1000 at the end of 30 years), valued at 7% semi-annually compounded. Just type in this formula:
=-PV(0.04/2,60,1000*0.04/2,1000) (= $1000.00)
This shows that the present value of $1000 paid in 30 years with 4% interest compounded semiannually ($1000*.04/2) and discounted at 4% semiannually (0.04/2) over 60 semi-annual periods is $1000.
Now run the scenario with interest rates at 7% — not at all unusually high by historic standards, and far below the 14% level reached by 1982 when Volcker was at the Fed:
=-PV(0.07/2,60,1000*0.04/2,1000)
Note the only change in the formula is that I am now discounting at 7% compounded semiannually (0.07/2) instead of 4%. The answer is $625.83, implying a 36.4% loss
( 100*($1000-$626)/$1000 ).
And what the heck — why not run the numbers on the full Volcker, just in case this time is not different after all:
=-PV(0.14/2,60,1000*0.04/2,1000)
The answer w/ an increase in T-bond yields to 14% is $298.04 — a loss of over 70% for anyone unfortunate enough to have to sell at that point, with the alternative to take the after-inflation value of coupon payments and lump sum repayment of principle after 30 years. Those who owned long-term bonds over the 1975-1982 period were creamed either way.
Any questions?
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-08-23 05:09:53
from the article:
“For example, the worst 12-month return for U.S. bonds since 1926 was –9.2%, while the worst 12-month return for U.S. stocks was –67.6% (12 months ended
June 1932).”
Losing 9.2% in a year is a bad investment, not a bubble popping.
Whenever I read something like this, I find myself yearning to know the financial position of the author. If I were trying to unload a lot of Treasurys onto greater fools, I would be sure to do so under cover of a “No bubble here” propaganda message.
This author, as far as I can tell, is a single person and no Bill Gross of Pimco. The only scenarios where hyperinflation can occur are:
1) The Fed were successful in not just reflating, but grossly reflating the economy.
2) Bond vigilante / buyer strike.
Both of these scenarios have been explained in painful details by that author as highly unlikely. He further points out that even after the greatest monetary easing and stimulus we are staring right in the abyss of deflation right now, so all the inflationistas have been dead wrong. USA is aka like Japan. Look at how low and how much lower the Japan long bonds have gotten 20 years after their housing bubble burst.
Frankly I do not know if this is right or wrong, but his arguments are concise and uses historical precedents.
Ten years ago, one of America’s leading economists delivered a stinging critique of the Bank of Japan, Japan’s equivalent of the Federal Reserve, titled “Japanese Monetary Policy: A Case of Self-Induced Paralysis?” With only a few changes in wording, the critique applies to the Fed today.
At the time, the Bank of Japan faced a situation broadly similar to that facing the Fed now. The economy was deeply depressed and showed few signs of improvement, and one might have expected the bank to take forceful action. But short-term interest rates — the usual tool of monetary policy — were near zero and could go no lower. And the Bank of Japan used that fact as an excuse to do no more.
That was malfeasance, declared the eminent U.S. economist: “Far from being powerless, the Bank of Japan could achieve a great deal if it were willing to abandon its excessive caution and its defensive response to criticism.” He rebuked officials hiding “behind minor institutional or technical difficulties in order to avoid taking action.”
Who was that tough-talking economist? Ben Bernanke, now the chairman of the Federal Reserve. So why is the Bernanke Fed being just as passive now as the Bank of Japan was a decade ago?
…
Santa Cruz Sentinel
Jeffrey Scharf, Everybody’s Business: Fannie and Freddie played a role in financial crisis
Posted: 08/22/2010 01:30:07 AM PDT
“Fannie and Freddie were allowed to build up substantial portfolios of mortgage-backed securities, which rose to a level of more than $1.6 trillion dollars at their peak, without the financial resources to cover potential losses…. [This was made possible by] the toxic combination of a perceived guarantee by the government and an absence of effective oversight. [Fannie and Freddie] were not the sole causes of the crisis, but they made the financial crisis worse. And they resulted in huge losses for the taxpayer.”
– Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, speaking at the “Conference on the Future of Housing Finance
At long last, a ranking government official has come close to recognizing the central role of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the government in the financial crisis.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were originally government agencies similar to today’s FHA. For a modest fee, a mortgage originator could pay Fannie or Freddie to guarantee loan payments if a borrower defaulted. To make sure that defaults would be uncommon, Fannie and Freddie enforced what came to be “conforming” lending standards — down payments of at least 20 percent and documented income approximately three times annual principal, interest and taxes.
In time, Fannie and Freddie became publicly traded companies although they retained federal charters subjecting them to oversight by politically appointed directors and Congressional directives. These charters gave
significant advantages over their private competitors — Fannie and Freddie were exempt from state and local taxes, did not have to file financial reports or offering documents with the SEC, and were allowed to operate with much greater leverage and less capital than banks. Most importantly, Fannie and Freddie were perceived as having the financial backing of the United States Government although legally they did not.
Things were going reasonably well until Fannie and Freddie expanded into the business of buying mortgages. With lower funding costs and other advantages, Fannie and Freddie were able to marginalize their competitors and amass the $1.6 trillion of mortgage-backed securities cited by Geithner.
Even this might have been OK had Congress not given the companies lending quotas that induced the companies to lower mortgage lending standards. The frenzy of sub-prime lending followed. As more and more buyers “qualified” for loans, home buying demand accelerated driving prices ever upward. Rising prices made it appear that lower lending standards did not increase losses thereby creating the rationale for still lower standards.
When the bubble burst, Fannie and Freddie were broke. The government could have allowed the companies to go into bankruptcy with losses absorbed by bondholders such as China, Pimco and others who took their chances on non-government guaranteed debt and lost. Instead, as it did in so many other cases, the government made good on the debt and stuck taxpayers with losses that are expected to reach $300 billion.
One might think that the best way to prevent a recurrence of this disaster would be to put Fannie and Freddie into run-off and get the government out of the mortgage business. Geithner takes a different view, “As I have said in the past, I believe there is a strong case to be made for a carefully designed guarantee in a reformed system, with the objective of providing a measure of stability in access to mortgages, even in future economic downturns.”
Well, we had a carefully designed system and it was overthrown to suit political purposes. To quote President Barack Obama quoting Albert Einstein, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
“At long last, a ranking government official has come close to recognizing the central role of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the government in the financial crisis.”
I guess it would never have happened if a government official hadn’t recognized it?
My sympathies, too, SanFranciscoBayAreaGal. I missed the sad news, but I remember you saying your mother was sick a while ago. At least she is at peace, now. Remember the good times, there’s no better way to honor someone.
SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
I too, send my condolences to you in the passing of your mom. Evidently, she left good memories as her legacy. You’re such a great gal, no doubt you came from good stock. She’ll always be part of you. Hugs sent your way in cyberspace.
(It feels surreal, doesn’t it? Have patience with yourself.)
The first warning about the possible bankruptcy of the town of Vallejo, California, was reported by the Associated Press on February 28, 2008, when Councilwoman Stephanie Gomes said, “Our financial situation is getting worse every single day. No city or private person wants to declare bankruptcy, but if you’re facing insolvency, you have no choice but to seek protection.”
Marci Fritz, vice president of the California Foundation for Fiscal Responsibility, blamed the action on promises made earlier by the council to the city’s employees concerning salaries and retirement benefits that the city no longer can afford. According to Fritz, these were promises made during economically flush times, and were due to the city council’s unrealistic expectations that those times would continue indefinitely. She said, “It’s a nightmare for city governments because they have to continue to pay these benefits that were granted when they had extra money from real estate and sales tax[es].”
Vallejo, a city of 120,000 across the bay from San Francisco, faced a $9 million budget shortfall at the time, owing to soaring payroll costs for its firefighters and police officers whose pay and pension costs make up almost 80 percent of the city’s budget. Those pay packages were negotiated with the unions representing those workers, and were necessary, according to spokesmen for the city, to be competitive with surrounding towns.
In May of 2008, the council voted 7-0 to declare Chapter 9 bankruptcy to “reorganize its finances,” which meant attempting to break the promises it had made earlier to the unions through the bankruptcy court. By this time, the budget shortfall had increased from $9 million to $15 million, despite efforts to cut expenses for museums, public works, senior centers, and libraries. The bankruptcy process allows the judge to void the union contracts, which essentially forces the city workers to accept a pay package that the city can afford, in light of declining tax revenues. But city employees weren’t the only ones at risk: The city had sold tax-exempt general obligation bonds whose interest payments would also be reduced or even eliminated. With an annual budget of $80 million, the city owed $53 million to those bondholders, and another $220 million in unfunded pension and retirement health benefits, totaling more than three times the city’s annual revenues.
When Judge Michael McManus determined that labor contracts can be broken in the Chapter 9 bankruptcy, union spokesmen said this set a dangerous precedent for other cities and townships in similar trouble to “do a Vallejo.” However, because of a binding arbitration clause inserted into the city charter in 1970, unions were able to renegotiate another contract with the city and, starting in July, 2010, police officers are getting a seven-percent pay raise. New Vallejo Councilwoman Marti Brown was appalled: “No one is getting a 7 percent increase, even in cities not in bankruptcy.” This raise takes place when the city’s budget has decreased from over $80 million in 2008 to just over $63 million in 2010.
The city of Maywood, California, took a different approach to its fiscal difficulties. On July 1, 2010, everyone on the payroll was fired. The Los Angeles Times said that by laying off an estimated 100 workers and contracting the remaining essential services such as finance, rec-ords management, parks and recreation, and street maintenance to a nearby town, Maywood would save the city $165,000 a year. On July 1, “We will become a 100 percent contracted city,” said interim City Manager Angela Spaccia.
San Diego is considering bankruptcy as a result of a report by the San Diego Grand Jury that “such a step could help the city cut its onerous retirement and health benefits.” At present the city has an unfunded pension obligation of $2.2 billion and another unfunded retiree healthcare liability of $1.3 billion. And MoneyNews said that San Diego is the fifth major city in the state to consider such a move, along with Los Angeles.
The recent exposure by the Los Angeles Times of the outrageous salary and retirement benefits being provided by Bell City to its City Manager and Chief of Police confirms the attitude of entitlement and disregard for fiscal responsibility that appears to be rampant in cities across the state and the country.
Papering Over Problems
All of this is putting the state of California on the “verge of system failure,” warns Jean Ross, executive director of the California Budget Project. With an annual budget of about $125 billion, California faces a $19 billion shortfall this year, and an expected $37 billion gap next year. But that’s just the tip of the iceberg. A recent Stanford University study concluded that the state’s pension fund is short by roughly $500 billion. The study urged Governor Schwarzenegger “to inject $360 billion into its public benefit systems … [just to] have an 80 percent chance of meeting 80 percent of [the state’s] obligations over the next 16 years.”
…
BEIJING (Caixin Online) — In the wake of a barrage of bad economic data, the yield on two-year U.S. Treasury notes has tumbled to 0.5% and the 10-year note to 2.8%, almost reaching the levels after Lehman’s collapse. Pundits in the U.S. and other Western countries are talking about deflation again.
The decline in the consumer price index for the past three months gives this view ammunition. The Fed is coming under pressure to resume quantitative easing (QE). In anticipation of the Fed resuming QE — nicknamed “QE 2″ — the dollar has declined quickly by 10% from its recent high. Both the Treasury and currency markets have already priced in “QE 2.”
The Fed just downgraded the U.S.’s economic outlook and decided to reinvest its proceeds from its huge mortgage-bond holdings in Treasurys. It is not quite “QE 2,” as it doesn’t involve additional QE, just maintaining the past liquidity injection. But it leaves much for the market to imagine.
…
Pension reform revolution is coming. Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa can either ride the wave or get crushed by it.
Posted: 08/22/2010 09:18:22 AM PDT
THERE’S a rebellion brewing. The gaping disparity between private sector and public sector workers’ pay and benefits has fueled an uprising that is playing out across California and the country. And nowhere is this disconnect more apparent than in publicly funded retirement plans.
Weak-kneed politicians have created a system of haves and have-nots - the haves are public employees with generous, guaranteed pensions, no matter the state of their pension fund. The have-nots are the private sector workers, who have taken a hit on both sides of the equation; they lost value on their own retirement plans and then have to fork over more taxpayer dollars to keep public employee pensions secure.
Finally, politicians have picked up on the public fury and are beginning the process of reform.
At least seven states have required existing or new public employees to pay more toward their retirement; Colorado and Minnesota legislators even took the unprecedented step cutting promised cost-of-living increases for retirees. Bakersfield and San Jose officials put measures on the November ballot designed to roll back pension benefits for public employees. And voters in San Francisco and Menlo Park bypassed reluctant elected officials and collected enough signatures to qualify their own pension reform initiatives.
And can you blame them? While Average Joes suffer stagnant wages and punch the clock until until 66 or so, they see friends or family members -
police officers, firefighters, city workers - retire at 50 or 55 with generous monthly checks, sometimes as much as 90 percent of their best-paid year of work, and free health care for life.
Over the last month, we’ve called on Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa to tackle the city’s key issues. As part of that, we asked readers to tell us what is the No. 1 problem Villaraigosa should tackle. Overwhelmingly, the most frequent answer was employee pension and pay reform.
They ask how city leaders and workers can defend a system that requires taxpayers to spend $1.4 billion this year to fund city retirees’ pension and health care, while programs for the unpensioned poor are cut, current workers are laid off, libraries close an extra day each week and infrastructure is allowed to crumble. Retiree obligations are projected to cost $2.2 billion by 2015.
Their outrage is more than just pension envy. The foul economy has exposed fundamental flaws in the promises Los Angeles has made to its workers. They are simply unsustainable.
Pensions will eventually bankrupt Los Angeles if not dealt with soon. Villaraigosa must do more than tinker with the budget. He must use the small window of opportunity opened by the economic downfall and the public disgust over government salaries to force through full pension reform within the year. In so doing, not only will he set Los Angeles on the path to long-term sustainability, he will make the city a model for pension reform around the country.
…
California passed a gas tax last week to help make up for its nearly $20 billion budget gap, the latest in a series of measures to right the state’s teetering economy. The country of Greece is in even worse shape, with accumulated debt higher than 110 percent of GDP, set to reach 125 percent this year. Can a state declare bankruptcy? Can a country?
No and no. Chapter 9 of the U.S. bankruptcy code allows individuals and municipalities (cities, towns, villages, etc.) to declare bankruptcy. But that doesn’t include states. (The statute defines “municipality” as a “political subdivision or public agency or instrumentality of a State”—that is, not a state itself.) For one thing, states are said to have sovereign immunity, as protected by the 11th Amendment, which means they can’t be sued. In other words, they don’t need any protection from angry creditors who would take them to court for failing to pay their debts. As a result, states can simply borrow money ad infinitum.
Say the state can’t make its debt payments, and no one will lend it any more money. In that case, the federal government can step in and put the state into receivership. This would involve the assignment of an accountant to manage the state’s debt, overseen by a judge. It would be a lot like bankruptcy, except instead of following a structured set of steps—informing creditors, appointing creditors’ committees, a 120-day window to file a plan, etc.—a receiver has the authority to force creditors to renegotiate loans in a speedy fashion. However, the accountant in charge would not have the power to make decisions about the state’s budget, such as which programs needed to be cut and which taxes had to be raised. (No state has ever gone into receivership.)
…
New data suggests that mortgage fraud—which got tougher to pull off after the collapse of the U.S. real estate market—is returning in a big way.
Data prepared for The Wall Street Journal by research firm CoreLogic, examining about seven million home loans made by hundreds of lenders, show that losses from mortgage fraud—ranging from falsified credit reports to identity theft—rose 17% last year after declining 57% in the two years after its 2006 peak.
In 2009, $14 billion in loans, or about 0.7% of all mortgage loans made in the U.S., were originated with fraudulent application data.
The figures are a fraction of the mortgage market, but the increase is sharp.
CoreLogic, which tracks fraud only by mortgage value, examines about 7 million loans each year using a proprietary computer program that detects discrepancies in loan documents and predicts the likelihood of fraud. The real losses to banks won’t be known for several years when banks are forced to write off the value of the loans’ value.
New data suggest losses from mortgage fraud nationwide rose 17% last year. Above, a view of Las Vegas, where home prices have fallen.
Some of CoreLogic’s profits come from selling market research to lenders aiming to cut losses from mortgage fraud.
Investigators and lenders say they are seeing a similar upswing in fraud.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation in June indicted a Phoenix man for mail and wire fraud among other alleged crimes when the agency says he tried to steal a house from his landlord. Also in June, federal prosecutors in New Jersey charged 29 defendants—including 12 real-estate agents, four mortgage consultants, an appraiser, a bank employee and a mortgage broker—with wire fraud in an alleged scheme involving 17 properties in the state and losses of $5.5 million.
“Even though we have certain compliance measures in place, people will adapt whatever scheme,” said Sharon Ormsby, the FBI’s section chief for financial crimes. “It doesn’t matter if the market is going up or down.”
…
The Obama administration’s loan-modification program appears to be running out of eligible borrowers who can qualify for restructured loans.
The number of homeowners who began government-sponsored loan-modifications in July grew by the slowest rate since the program began nearly 18 months ago and was dwarfed by the number of borrowers whose modifications were canceled.
Half of the 1.3 million modifications that have been extended to borrowers have been canceled since the program began, and around one-third, or around 422,000 borrowers, have received permanent loan modifications.
So far, the Home Affordable Modification Program, or HAMP, has helped hold back the shadow inventory of more than seven million loans that are delinquent or in some stage of foreclosure, which has helped home prices to stabilize over the past year.
In July, nearly 17,000 new trial modifications were started. More than five times as many borrowers saw their reduced-payment programs canceled, either because they failed to make payments, didn’t provide necessary financial documents, or didn’t meet qualification guidelines.
Still, it isn’t clear how many of those borrowers will ultimately go through foreclosure. Among the top eight mortgage-servicing companies, around half of all borrowers who exit the government program end up receiving a modification or become current; just 15% are in some stage of foreclosure.
Under HAMP, lenders receive incentives to help troubled borrowers avoid foreclosure by reducing their mortgage payments through a combination of a longer term and a lower interest rate. Homeowners must make at least three “trial” payments before the modification can become permanent.
In an effort to scale up the program quickly, officials initially prodded banks to begin trial modifications without obtaining supporting documents to make sure borrowers were eligible. That has produced a high rate of modifications that are ultimately canceled, and the Treasury Department earlier this year began requiring banks to qualify borrowers before beginning the trials.
The Treasury warned on Friday that cancellations will exceed the number of new modifications for the next few months as banks “clear their backlog of aged trials.”
Officials said it was unfair to write off HAMP as a failure because they say it has forced the mortgage industry to focus its efforts to provide sustainable loan modifications.
“This program has actually been transforming the mortgage-servicing industry,” said Herbert Allison, assistant Treasury secretary.
…
Credit-Card Rates Climb Levels Hit Nine-Year High as New Rules Limiting Penalty Fees Help Fuel Rise
By RUTH SIMON
Interest rates continue to tumble for the U.S. Treasury, companies and home buyers alike. But for a large portion of 381 million U.S. credit-card accounts, borrowing rates have been moving only one way: up.
And average rates are likely to climb further in the near future.
New credit-card rules that took effect Sunday limit banks’ ability to charge penalty fees. They come on top of rule changes earlier this year restricting issuers’ ability to adjust rates on the fly. Issuers responded by pushing card rates to their highest level in nine years.
In the second quarter, the average interest rate on existing cards reached 14.7%, up from 13.1% a year earlier, according to research firm Synovate, a unit of Aegis Group PLC. That was the highest level since 2001.
Those figures look especially stark when measuring the gap between the prime rate—the benchmark against which card rates are set—and average credit-card rates. The current difference of 11.45 percentage points is the largest in at least 22 years, Synovate estimates.
By comparison, the spread between 10-year Treasurys and a standard 30-year fixed-rate mortgage is just 1.93 percentage points, near historical averages, according to mortgage-data provider HSH Associates.
…
Wall Street employees about to return from the summer doldrums have something new to worry about: their jobs.
The weak economy, volatile markets, regulatory upheaval and changes in how traders and investment bankers are paid are starting to trigger job cuts that could reverse a recent rebound in overall employment levels at banks and securities firms.
While the firings so far add up to a tiny slice of all Wall Street jobs, companies and analysts say deeper cuts are looming unless business revs up soon. “When push comes to shove, Wall Street firms are erring on the side of caution,” says Michael Franzino, head of the global financial-services practice at executive-search firm Korn/Ferry International in New York.
Barclays Capital, the investment-banking unit of Barclays PLC, has eliminated about 400 jobs, most of them back-office positions. Credit Suisse Group AG has warned its staff that the Swiss bank might trim 75 positions from its London office.
And other firms are contemplating cuts as they look at their bonus pools for 2010 amid sluggish securities sales and trading. The outlook for merger activity also remains cloudy despite last week’s surge in deal making to its highest level since December 2009.
Some firms say that the recent job cuts are routine and that they will continue to hire people for roles that are especially important. Other companies are continuing to expand the businesses they entered as financial markets recovered last summer.
Nomura Holdings Inc.’s Nomura Securities unit has hired more than 600 people since March 2009 and is going ahead with plans to hire at least 300 employees by next March.
But even Wall Street firms that have been in hiring mode are completing those moves. UBS AG Chief Executive Oswald Grübel said last month that the “rebuilding of our fixed income is nearly completed,” referring to the addition of 300 employees to the Swiss bank’s fixed-income operations since 2009.
“The focus is now on execution and how can we increase revenue and client business,” he said.
…
Unfortunately, the events of 9/11/01 will be forever associated in the minds of Americans with the actions of the Islamic terrorists who flew the planes. It is hard to understand why so much of the world is mystified regarding America’s heated debate over building an Islamic center at Ground Zero of the 9/11 attack. Certainly there are plenty of other locations around New York City which would provide suitable alternatives without providing such a painful reminder of the religious affiliation of the 9/11 perpetrators?
It is pretty clear at this point that this issue will stay alive for at least the next two years as a 2012 presidential campaign issue.
Islamic center debate stupefies Muslim world
The heated debate across America over construction of an Islamic center near Ground Zero is reverberating across the globe, with the …
By Borzou Daragahi
Los Angeles Times
New York police on Sunday separate demonstrators — for, left, and against the construction of an Islamic center near Ground Zero. No physical clashes were reported, but nose-to-nose confrontations were plentiful. Opponents appeared to outnumber supporters.
Enlarge this photo
DON EMMERT / AFP/GETTY IMAGES
New York police on Sunday separate demonstrators — for, left, and against the construction of an Islamic center near Ground Zero. No physical clashes were reported, but nose-to-nose confrontations were plentiful. Opponents appeared to outnumber supporters.
BEIRUT — The heated debate across America over construction of an Islamic community center near Ground Zero is reverberating around the globe, with the potential of creating a black eye for the United States.
Many Muslims abroad are miffed by the debate, largely conducted by non-Muslims, that has grown so loud as to become a topic of discussion on talk shows and newspapers from Bali to Bahrain, from Baghdad to Berlin. The proposed Cordoba House has become a symbol of America’s fraught relations with the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims.
“Rejecting this has become like rejecting Islam itself,” said Ahmad Moussalli, a professor of Islamic Studies at the American University of Beirut. “The United States has historically been distinguished by its tolerance, whereas Europe, France, Belgium and Holland have been among those who have rejected the symbolism of Islam. Embracing it will be positively viewed in the Islamic world.”
…
Without getting into the underlying calculations, this story strikes me as highly implausible on the face of it.
For starters, why did they pick the scenario values of 60 percent and 63 percent drops in Chinese housing prices?
And it seems highly unlikely that while a 60 percent drop in housing prices would have no noticeable effect in the default rate on Chinese home loans, a 63 percent drop in prices would some how be catastrophic.
China property plunge would barely dent CCB
BEIJING | Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:13pm EDT
BEIJING Aug 23 (Reuters) - If housing prices in China plummeted by 60 percent, there would be no noticeable increase in the default rate on loans issued by China Construction Bank (CCB), a newspaper report reported on Monday.
CCB (601939.SS), China’s biggest lender to home buyers, would only suffer a clear rise in defaults if property prices tumbled by 63 percent, the 21st Century Business Herald reported, citing an unnamed source who is close to the bank.
…
Related News
* UPDATE 2-China’s CCB Q2 net up 20 pct, beats forecasts
Sun, Aug 22 2010
* China’s CCB posts 20 percent rise in Q2 net profit
Sun, Aug 22 2010
* China bank property stress test finds risk: report
Sat, Aug 21 2010
* China bank property stress test finds risk - paper
Sat, Aug 21 2010
* UPDATE 2-China tries to soothe fears about local debt
Thu, Aug 19 2010
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Raining here in Bradenton, Fl at 8:30AM.
Yep, we got the downpour, too. Sun’s out now, though, and the relentless heat is cranking up. Really weird summer heat, not as much rain as we usually have.
Read something interesting on the net yesterday evening about the loop current in the Gulf. It’s considered the engine of the Gulf Stream and one scientific organization claims it is “frozen” and not flowing, possibly as a result of the BP oil spill, causing weird weather related phenomena.
However, we’re being told how “safe” Florida seafood is, so everyone get out there and chow down. Be sure to order it with a side of the neurotoxin Corexit.
Raining here in Mesa last night. Just a lttle thunderstorm activity. Yesterday’s high was 107.
Right now 84 with 53 % humidity.
I notice the Scientists have now confessed about the peek-a-boo 75% oil gone bye-bye lie from the White House.
Baroke O’Bummer’s popularity plunges to record lows and it’s never been a better time to buy a house according to the Realtwhore Industry.
Happy happy joy joy
Yeah there was a thunderstorm in Ahwatukee overnight. Still a big puddle in the drainage ditch next to Sun Ray park. Could hear the rain over the roar of my A/C last night but did not bother to get out of bed until 5:00 a.m.
It’s been pouring down here since 6 am. it’s stopping now. but i expect more will be coming…………..another lovely day in the subtropics.
Clear sky’s and 74 degrees here….
The weather-sameness of San Diego would drive me absolutely nuts, scdave. Seriously.
Glad you like it though! Somebody has to live there.
Yes-SD really sucks when it’s sunny and 75.
2 hours from Snowboarding. 15 minutes from the ocean.(at least where Ilive)
Its only 75 if you live west of I-5. For everyone else it’s much, much hotter than that. I speak from experience.
The mild winters are nice though.
That’s great that you like it.
I wouldn’t like it. Very predictable. Very boring.
There are many places in the Rockies where you can drive 30 minutes in May/June and go skiing. AND have variety at home, too.
Sunshine all the time is depressing.
I, too, am bothered by incessant sun and a lack of inclement weather. I’m reminded of Oly’s “I love rain, I love rain, I love rain!” chants.
“Sunshine all the time is depressing.”
Another “dirty secret” in San Diego is that its often hazy, especially on the coast where its cooler.
And all that sunshine doesn’t do you that much good when you’re stuck in traffic on either 78, i5, i15, i805, i8,52 or 168 at rush hour.
I hear ya. I’m a fan of changeable weather conditions - adds spice and interest to a day. Clouds, lightning, torrential rain and SNOW are neat. I love wind, too.
That’s why I like living on the SF Peninsula. Just the right amount of sun, wind, rain, and fog (well we certainly have had a lot of fog this summer)
I am a outdoor guy…Indoors suffocates me…I do understand the perspective in the pleasure of four seasons…Just not my cup of tea….
I am a outdoor guy…Indoors suffocates me…
There are places with four seasons yet amenable to being active outdoors year-round. That’s one of the reasons I love the Seattle area - hiking, kayaking, sailing in the warm weather. Hiking, kiing, snowshoeing in the cold.
Hiking,
kiingskiing, snowshoeing in the cold.“There are places with four seasons yet amenable to being active outdoors year-round.”
Indeed, not everyplace with 4 seasons is like Minnesota.
As for San Diego’s great weather I found myself spending a lot of time indoors because it was often too hot. I get outdoors more here in the Centennial state than I did in San Diego.
I’m moving to SoCal when I become homeless.
lot of time indoors because it was often too hot ??
Rarely is it to hot or to cold where I live (95051)…I have lived in the Northwest…I have lived in the South East….To extreme for me…
Yeah I’ve lived in Las Vegas and Dallas and you basically just lived indoors there. In LV I would sometimes go to Lake Mead around 7 am after working graveyard. That was kinda nice. Or in Dallas go out to Lake Ray Hubbard or Cedar Creek and swim with the water mocs.
I wish it was raining here. It’s been 100+f for 3 weeks with at least another week forecasted.
Leasing a new tool for mansions that aren’t selling
Phoenix Business Journal
As luxury home values in the Phoenix market continue to slide — some are down by 50 percent or more from three years ago — dozens of mansions sit vacant in Paradise Valley and other chic spots.
Now, some real estate brokers are learning the ins and outs of lease-option agreements to keep the local residential market from freezing up again.
“It requires much legal documentation, but … we see this as a way to save the community,” said Ann Heins, a broker who specializes in distressed property sales with her husband, Ralph.
After a brief lift in the marketplace, many local real estate professionals think there is more room for home values to fall, particularly in the high-end market.
The lease option is a way to get somebody into the house with a vested interest in maintaining it until the market turns around.
The only time we did a leas option, we got screwed by the builder. We paid him, he didn’t pay the bank. Can you say foreclosure?
Not that it matters…
USA DEBT: $13,310,379,000,000.00
$44,000 PER CITIZEN…
I don’t believe that’s possible. I have paid a lot more than that into Social Security and Medicaid and a bunch of other programs. I know a whole lot of people that have been paying in for nearly as long as me.
That’s over 40 years. So some of us must be on the plus side. Right?
I expect to get this back when I retire in about 10 years.
How could we possibly owe more when we haven’t taken anything back out yet??? This can’t be right. Tell me it isn’t true.
What happened to my retirement funds????
It’s gone!
If the Catfood Commission gets its way, you will have to retire later, and get less Social Security benefits.
“if the Catfood Commission gets its way. . .”
“Catfood Commission”
Love it!
“Catfood Commission”
Love it!
It’s good to eat cat!
That’s OK, the State Department is arranging with China to organize citizen labor units to work off the debt.
According to Rancher’s post further down - the housing for those work brigades is already in place!
As others have pointed out, this is NOT a particularly logical way to measure government debt because we don’t pay for ANYTHING on a per-capita basis. Since I don’t pay the same ammount of taxes as either Bill Gates, my ten year old niece, or that homeless guy sleeping on a grate, it doesn’t really illuminate things to assume that we’re going to held responsible to this debt equally. It would tell us more to if we compared the debt with income tax receipts, and said for every $1,000 of income taxes, you were responsible for servicing $x ammount of debt. To be clear I’m NOT making a MORAL argument, simply pointing out that since in reality we DON’T pay interest on the debt equally, it doesn’t make much sense to assume equal shares on the principal. Of course even this sort of measure is off because there are OTHER federal taxes, like capital gains and corporate income taxes.
Nice summary Jim A….
Don’t worry wmbz…The great grandkids will pay it off….
Just a hypothesizing here: suppose an individual refuses to pay taxes based on that he never voted for any lawmaker that spent money unconstitutionally. Result is jail.
Now suppose millions of people exempted like crazy and refused to pay taxes? There are not enough resources to detain them. But the creditor countries, China or Japan, could invade the U.S. And confiscate property.
But what if we had flying monkeys attack them? Hypothetically.
Like in the Wizard of Oz?
Like in the Wizard of Oz?
Why do you have to cheapen it? Are you jealous of my ‘outside of the box’ thinking?
“Why do you have to cheapen it?”
The Wizard of Oz is the only place I recall seeing monkeys fly.
Flying pigs is another story entirely — just look how fast LA home prices were going up circa 2003, for example — maybe 23 percent a year?
But what if we had flying monkeys attack them? Hypothetically.
pretty funny
“But the creditor countries, China or Japan, could invade the U.S. And confiscate property.”
Which would probably be destroyed by their invasion. And besides, Japan has no army worth mentioning.
If anyone will confiscate, it will be Mexico. They know how to invade. 20 million of their troops are already here. We even celebrate their holidays with parades.
“The great grandkids will pay it off….”
In inflated dollars
ShoreBank of Chicago Said to Be Closed Today by FDIC
The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. will shut down ShoreBank Corp., according to people with direct knowledge of the matter.
ShoreBank Corp., the Chicago lender operating under a Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. cease-and- desist order for 13 months, will be shut and most of its assets will be bought by Urban Partnership Bank, two people with direct knowledge of the matter said.
Urban Partnership, created to make the acquisition, will keep branches in Chicago, Cleveland and Detroit and continue to focus on low-income communities, the people said, speaking anonymously because the matter is private. Urban Partnership will have Tier 1 capital of at least 8 percent and its chief executive officer will be William Farrow, a former executive at the Chicago Board of Trade and Bank One Corp., they said.
“The good news is that the bank, under this new management, will still be there and serving the South Side community,” said Dory Rand, president of the Chicago-based Woodstock Institute, a non-profit that studies community lending. “They have made the South Side a decent place to live and work and do business.”
Home Sales Probably Plunged and Goods Orders Rose as U.S. Recovery Slowed
Home sales probably plunged in July, and orders for long-lasting goods climbed for the first time in three months as the U.S. strained to sustain the recovery from the worst recession since the 1930s, economists said before reports this week.
Purchases of new and existing houses dropped 12 percent to a 5.01 million annual pace, the lowest since March 2009, according to the median forecast of 54 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News. Durable-goods bookings climbed 3 percent last month, the survey showed.
“The economy is stuck in a rut,” said Russell Price, a senior economist at Ameriprise Financial Inc. in Detroit. “We lost the momentum in the second quarter and now we’re really struggling to regain any momentum at all.”
“Home sales probably plunged in July,”
What’s this “probably” business? That’s got to be about the third time in recent weeks that I’ve seen this word in a business or financial article.
Can momentum be regained? Once momentum is lost it has to be re-created. But I don’t see how it is regained. These senior economists don’t seem to know much about anything. Which is why they’re economists I suppose.
Once momentum is lost it has to be re-created. But I don’t see how it is regained ??
Oh common EdE…You are not jumping off the 12000 DOW wagon are you ??
I thought he predicted dow 12,000 by the end of August ?
“These senior economists don’t seem to know much about anything.”
Do you have any idea how many of these know-nothing economists are with you on your DJIA = 12K prediction by year-end 2010?
Just curious whether you are out there on a limb all by yourself, or if you have good company.
I’m just trying to imagine what could possibly be the impetus for DOW 12000 this year.
GOP sweep of Congress - ?
“I’m just trying to imagine what could possibly be the impetus for DOW 12000 this year.”
Massive devaluation of the dollar should do it…
Can they? Clearly. Will they? TBD.
“Massive devaluation of the dollar should do it…”
This reminds me of a joke that made the rounds in Mexico during the big inflation years of the early 80’s.
The joke went something like “Most Mexican dreamt of becoming millionaires. Little did they know that their dreams would come true.”
This was when it would take 9000 pesos to buy one US dollar, when a few years before it just took 20 pesos.
“The economy is stuck in a rut,” said Russell Price = a depression
Face it, this is a depression. Yeah, we’ve seen the fireworks, the dramatic stock swan dive, the bankruptcies and foreclosures, the headline grabbing layoffs. But I’ll argue that in and of themselves those do not make a depression. It is the DURATION of the downturn that makes such events into depressions.
The question now is which way forward? With so many still looking to the past for answers they are at the same time dragging this out. Meanwhile people simply are not prepared for a long term period of being “stuck in a rut”. Example: that story about the 401k hardship withdrawls. For every houseowner that is being “saved” - there is another liquidating what little remained of his/her savings.
It’s laughable really, so much talk about “saving” people and the real net effect of current policies is a slow grinding widespread impoverishment.
The question now is which way forward? You are not paying attention. We are going “forward”. That’s the new Obama sales-pitch, talking point for his party. If you want to go forward you put the car in (D), and if you want to go backward, you put it in (R).
We can’t get out of the ditch because the Republicans are dragging us back,(even though they control both branches of Congress and the Presidency) as the Democrats are pulling us out.
So you see, we are going forward. It’s just that the driver is Blind and Hearing Impaired and has absolutely no idea where we are going (maybe over a cliff)…..but, we are moving “forward”.
You forgot the tires are flat, the battery is dead, there’s no gas in the tank, it’s raining and the top is down, and the Democratic horse hitched to the front bumper just died.
Rancher- I’m surprised at you. You should know better: that’s not a horse, it’s a jackass.
Sorry about the slip. My second cup will help
as the brain cells start aligning up in the right
direction. That second glass of wine last night really screwed the pooch.
That second glass of wine last night really screwed the pooch ??
Feeling the same myself after my youngest 30th birthday party last night…I can barely move…
“That second glass of wine last night really screwed the pooch.”
Maybe you aren’t drinking enough wine often enough?
bbbbbbut bbbbbbut bbbbbbut
BUSH.
Unknown - this stint with the edge will be 2 years old next month.
We may in fact be in a depression, but our inexpensive entertainment options (TV, radio, Internet, etc.) are cushioning the blow. Now, if there weren’t mind-numbing entertainment options available today, what is happening now might seem considerably more dire.
Depressions aren’t just economic in nature. They’re sociological, too.
Summed it up nicely Ejohn…
Real Estate: Homebuyer credit causes drop in sales
By Jason Hidalgo • jhidalgo@rgj.com • August 21, 2010
The end of the federal homebuyer tax credit left its mark on Washoe County’s housing market in July, as sales of existing homes saw double-digit decreases.
Washoe posted 406 unit sales of existing single-family homes for the month, down 32 percent from June and 21 percent from July 2009, according to the latest report from the Reno/Sparks Association of Realtors. The sales numbers do not include condominiums, townhomes, manufactured and modular houses and new homes.
The decrease follows a five-year high for sales in the previous month, as many buyers scrambled to meet the homebuyer tax credit’s initial June 30 closing deadline. The deadline to close was ultimately extended to the end of September.
“Realistically, we were expecting a decrease in actual closed sales for July,” said Ken Amundson, president of Reno/Sparks Realtors Association. “Anywhere from 50 to 100 sales in June would have occurred in July without the pressure to meet that deadline.”
New pending sales and contracts written in July remain consistent with the activity seen in the previous three months, which is good news, Amundson said, adding that the trend points to continued stabilization in the market.
For now, the impact of the tax credit isn’t expected to fully dissipate until the end of the new closing deadline. But given signs of stabilization in the market, Washoe should be fine even without such homebuying programs, Amundson said.
Median price was a positive for the Washoe housing market, posting a 6 percent increase to $180,000. It is the fourth increase in median price in the last six months.
Although median pricing continues to bounce along the bottom, the fact that sale prices aren’t seeing the same freefall that followed the housing bubble’s collapse is a sign that the market is stabilizing, said Brian Kaiser, a housing and real estate analyst with the University of Nevada, Reno’s Center for Regional Studies.
…
I don’t want to say too much on the net because this is a work in progress and it’s a small world but the owner of the short sale that I just made an offer on Saturday was a well respected Agr/Product related business owner for about 30 years.
He struggled 3 years big time before he before he bit the dust. He kept the house is perfect but financially, he is destroyed. Nearly a year delinquent on property taxes with penalties due by Aug 31. Newer roof , furnace, appliances, damned near everything and he can’t even pay he taxes and he and his RE agent are trying to pimp bids and offers as a short sale. Heck, I’ll nibble.
Between a few years of really crazy FSBO DreamPrice of attempts and an RE agent that told him his house was worth 300k range, he is at the mercy of me and the lenders unless this RE agent pulls a a qualified golden rabbit or a bigger idiot than me out of the hat.
You want a quick and dirty SS offer from me, I’m cash and you and the people on your end pay me a discount to me for that too. Plenty of houses out there and a lot more and cheaper are coming.
A larger competitor just walked in with gov’t assistance and took over his business operation. Sad but no my problem.
It’s really rough out there in the business world but if I can get his really nice house (3578 fin. sq ft) from the lenders at or about $55 sq ft…. I will if I can.
It’s all business and this bitter renter just hopped off of the fence to see what’s for lunch.
You go mikey. Keep up informed.
Thanks,
They probably won’t sell to me as they claim it’s only 4% commission and their agent/broker/lender want it all if it can be sold to the NGF. They’d just love write up and put an overpaying Fanny/Freddy/FHA 30yr j6pack and wife into it. Already tried to pull that duel agency crap.
It’s really kind of big for me but I like solid brick houses, fireplaces, lots of elbow room and I’m gonna buy a go-cart to zoom around in if I get bored in the winter and can’t afford to heat the damned behemoth.
I do have lots of farm friends 30 miles away so they can drop off a 1/2 cord of oak whenever I give them heads up. As far as funishing the place, my little sister pipes up with her solution. Fly her in, march me, dog and my housemouse out the door, gasoline and torch the current place with everything in it and give her at least 60k to start to go furniture shopping.
Yeaah, Right…damned girl still owes me money from when she used to cheat me when we were kids !!
I will need a much larger Samsung HDTV home theater system for downstairs and some at least two decent brown leather couches, and matching chairs with foot rests. Plus at least 3 complete bedroom sets with all the junk and trimming. Plus…hey this stupid house stuff could get a little expensive in a hurry…Booze, need lots and lots of bar booze. Hey, I already have that. Plus…two beat up metal folding chairs in the living room for relatives, LDS and tourists.
mikey places a little tin cup at HBB door with a large “Please Donate” sign and hopes they reject my offer so I can go to Cape St. Jacque, Vung Tau, Vietnam fo 10 days and eat great big, fat, safe shrimp this winter.
Shun!! (just kidding)
Those midwest prices just blow me away. You’re getting a beautiful brick rancher of almost 4k square feet at $55 per foot, yet the hardest hit areas in the west, with nearly 15% UE, are seeing hordes of speculators jumping in at more than $100 per foot. Methinks there’s still massive pain in store for the likes of NV, AZ, CA, OR, WA, ID, UT, etc.
I don’t have a link where they were asking 300k fsbo dream price anymore but I do have a link with photos where they were asking 279,900 FSBO in 2006.
If my short sale falls through, I will post it so we can all laugh at me almost getting trapped in a big stupid house.
If I really have to pay for this sucker at less or near Short Sale asking price, I’ll quietly crawl away in shame and nobody on HBB will ever know where I’m hiding because I will still have paid too damned much for it.
Visa, BofA join forces on mobile payments
San Francisco Business Times
Visa Inc. and Bank of America Corp. announced a joint pilot project that would allow consumers to use their smart-phones to make purchases.
The pilot teams San Francisco-based Visa, the world’s largest payment processor, with BofA, the nation’s largest bank. Initially to be tested in the New York metropolitan area, people selected for the trial could use their phones as virtual debit cards: after installing a chip, when making a purchase they could pass their phone near a point-of-sale device and money would be automatically be moved from their bank account.
The tie-up between the two titans potentially creates a dominant contender in the race to turn mobile phones into payment devices — but it’s already a crowded field, as Reuters pointed out: Visa is getting ready to run a similar pilot with US Bancorp. BofA has its own mobile trials under way, while Verizon Wireless, AT&T, T-Mobile USA and Discover Financial Services are also working on a similar joint venture.
Bloomberg reports At Least Half of Shanghai, Beijing Flats Are Vacant
At least half of the apartments in Shanghai and Beijing are empty, the China Daily reported today, citing an online investigation by volunteers conducted in 100 Chinese cities.
About 51 percent of Shanghai apartments, 66 percent of Beijing flats and more than 70 percent of units in Hainan are vacant, according to the survey, based on counting the number of apartments observed to have no lights on at night. It was conducted on more than 1,000 real-estate projects and was organized by news website Sina.com., according to the report.
“Investors and speculators are the owners of the vacant houses” as they wait to sell their properties at an appropriate time, said Lu Qilin, a Shanghai-based researcher at Uwin. “It’s important for the government to introduce more measures to curb speculation.”
Anyone who thinks China does not have a property bubble is in Fantasyland.
ah, yes, the great Paper Tiger. Something tells me China’s not in as great shape as the MSM, pundits and propaganda mongers would have you believe.
I read something yesterday about how students in China can’t write by hand. They use computers. If asked for a handwritten note, they can’t do it without great effort, if at all.
How many glyphs are there in the chinese “Alphabet”. Aren’t there thousands? At least the Japanese have alternatives to Kanji (Hiragana, Katakana and Romanji)
And this is supposed to be surprising? It was as predictable as night follows day.
Those are brave volunteers, my hat is off to them. Helping to pull aside the curtain hiding the truth behind the “Truebamboolie” has earned them no friends in Beijing or on Wall Street I’m sure.
“Truebamboolie”
Coffee on the keyboard…
50%? Holy Kung Pao Chicken! Iguess we’ll soon see China’s own version of “extend and pretend” coming soon, along with a hefty shadow inventory while the high rises continue to sprout like mushrooms.
And I have no doubt that Miss Li Wong researched this. Everyone one in China knows that real estate only goes up and that there won’t be a crash because “it’s different here in China.”
50%? Holy Kung Pao Chicken!
Laughing so hard I can barely type…. :)
“Holy Kung Pao Chicken!”
And remember, never look to closely at the chicken itself.
I am reminded of a Chinese restaurant I used to go to back in college. I ordered House Chow Mein, and could not identify the greasy meat. I am convinced it was cat. I never ate there again. In fact, I don’t much like Chinese food anymore.
House Chow Mein? You mis-read the menu, it was Horse Chow Mein…
I find this hard to believe, with so many people from rural China wanting to move to the city that they have internal passports.
One of two things must be true.
The flats could be rented, but not at a rent that tenants could afford and that is also high enough to pay debts.
The tenants are there, but too poor to afford much electricity.
I read a articile a while back that claimed that it was just not worth the hassle of renting out the unit. Keep in mind that they can’t do 5% down, they have to invest 20-40% down. Even with that, the appreciation was anticipated (ya i know) was so great that rent was relatively minor consideration.
They should try open houses with balloons and fresh-baked cookies. That’s what worked really well here.
Fresh baked Fortune cookies I imagine??
Exscept those are an American invention, like chimichangas.
I wonder what percentage of apts would be dark at any given time of night in a fully occupied building. I would think 20%, maybe? Much more the later it gets. (That still leaves a lot of empties, though.)
Someone here linked to a story a few months ago that their Class A office space is just as empty.
Hot topic. A couple of comments from
Demonstrators in West Palm Beach march against Arizona-style immigration law
By Andrew Marra Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 6:59 p.m. Saturday, Aug. 21, 2010
2006 My son was killed by a drunk Guatemalan, driving with no lic. no car insurence and 12 passagers in the van with him. when the driver hit my son on his bike, his head went one way and the body the other. The driver and all the the passagers,but one fleed the crime area. The other was to drunk to know what had happen. when asked by WPPD, he said i dont speak no english. Til this day nothing was done about my only child murder. So i say treate them like you treate us. Lock them up!!!!!!
tonia
8:27 AM, 8/22/2010 HEY GRINGOS:
AMERIKA BELONGS TO US, NOT TO YOU.
WE WILL RECLAIM THE LANDS YOU STOLE FROM US AND SHIP YOU BACK TO EUROPA WHERE YOU BELONG.
ASTA LAVISTA BABY..
ASTA LAVISTA
JoseO
8:14 AM, 8/22/2010
JoseO is either a fraud or illiterate in his native tongue: It’s “Hasta la vista” not “Asta lavista”.
My daughter started college this week(stayed local..doesn’t want student loans when she is done)…she is now one of 25,000 there. As I looked around at the campus..stared at the line going around the building for the financial aid office….knowing what unemployment has been for the last 2 years…other than bagging groceries..Where are all these people going to find jobs in their field of study?…And how are they going to afford to move forward with an average of 30-80K in debt in four years?…the future for the job market looks bleaker and bleaker as each month goes by….
I keep meeting parents whose kids have graduated and they are 1)boomeranged(back with mom and dad) 2)still unemployed 3)back in school hoping a Master’s will help or market recovers and 4)working at high school level employment jobs…
My daughter’s logic is that she will probably have to relocate in order to get employment in her field of study and doesn’t want to be hampered with loan payments if she has to rent her first place. She also stated that it would be torture to be “on her own for 4 years” only to return home to “mom and dad.”
Where did these kids you speak of go to college? I’m guessing No Name State U?
This is the problem. Everyone goes to college because there is a college in every town these days. Some colleges have open admissions. Have a pulse? Congrats you’ve been accepted. And 1/2 of them can’t even write a coherent sentence, yet they are “college graduates”. A college degree is useless from a degree mill like that.
My advice to anyone in high school is: unless you can get into a Top 50 college, don’t bother.
My advice to anyone in high school is: unless you can get into a Top 50 college, don’t bother ??
You are such a Dim Wit Eddie…Please, for the sake of the children, don’t have any…
“My advice to anyone in high school is: unless you can get into a Top 50 college, don’t bother.”
FWIW I know people with Ivy League degrees who are underemployed and I know young people with degrees from University of Wyoming, University of Colorado, Colorado State and University of Northern Colorado who are gainfully employed in their fields of study.
Are you more likely to succeed if you attend Yale as opposed to Mesa State College? Sure. But I know people who graduate from Mesa State who where able to find jobs.
Mesa state median starting salary: $36,100. That is $18 an hour.
You think spending 4 years in college is worth making $18 upon graduation? I don’t. There are lots of jobs that require no college that will pay $18 an hour. Why spend 4 years no working, and paying tuition to graduate with an $18 an hour job? It is ridiculous. And exactly the point I was trying to make.
No, there aren’t. They were all outsourced.
Actually, that’s hyperbole. They do exist, but it such limited numbers compared to years past as to be unobtainable for even those who are qualified.
Why you even attempt to flatter yourseIf with your self-perceived intellect is beyond me Eddie…
I was visiting a professor and her family this weekend. Her department’s internship program and graduate job placement is still going strong. She works primarily with IT and Engineering kids. The job fairs and on-campus recruiters aren’t what they used to be but they’re doing okay.
You might walk out of college with an engineering degree or something tucked under your arm but you’re really still a freakin’ “glorifed technican” until someone or company really trains you to function on the job or on your own.
They actually have better placements than many bigger name schools. Grounded businesses want educated and proven trainable workers and not high priced big school Prima Donna’s with sheepskins, especially in austerity and recession.
Smart businesses still contact her and her “no-name” university looking for sharp kids. Why ? These kids are NOT in love with themselves and their BS degrees. They want to and expect to work for a living and not to coast on the name of their university.
Because 96% of the kids in the system are from Wisconsin and if they DON’T have it yet, their professors have always have tried to instill good mid-west work ethics as well as provide a good quality basic college education for the price.
I have sometimes hung around with our her and our old Admissions Dean for HS Engineering Placement Testing. My kid walked out after testing and he just said. “Dad, there are some really smart kids in that room”. He could have gone college just about anywhere.
Her oldest starts this Fall…the university math department has no friends or favorites and is, as always, merciless and takes NO prisoners.
I have known her since she was a college freshman. She is one terrific, hard working woman and I was very proud when she got her Phd. She earned it and still does every year at a one of your so-called “no-name” colleges. The kids, parents and business contacts really appreciate her and I would venture to say she has a lot more friends in this world than you EVER will Eddie.
Proud graduate of sNo
Eddie, you have said some pretty dumb things on HBB in your short time here, but this has to rank as the dumbest of the dumb statements I have heard on HBB, EVER, the 3 1/2 years I have been here.
Signed,
No-Name-State-U Grad Doing Just Fine Thank You.
No-Name-State-U Grad too
Whiskey Tech Alumni
Top 50 according to who? US News? USA Today?
I went to a no-name state school, famous for Guardsman shooting at students in May of 1970, and while I don’t have a Yale or Harvard diploma my program has a great reputation in my field. (Without the strangling student loans also)
Sean, you must be an architect.
I’ve done very well from my state university degrees. At least my tax forms state so. Eddie, you are wrong.
Bill and Sean and cougar and everyone else who graduated from No Name U. Good for you. Exceptions to the rule.
After 15 years the median income for a Dartmouth grad is $129K.
Compare that to oh I dunno U of Wyoming since it was mentioned above, $80K
$129K vs. $80K. Yeah you’re right, there is no difference whatsoever. Unless you enjoy earning an extra $49K a year, then there may be just a teenie tiny bit of a difference.
Dartmouth grads will most likely work in Northeast. Hence the higher salary.
Wyoming grads will mostly work in WY. Hence the lower salary.
80K in WY is still way better than 129K in NYC.
Eddie, your math changed. You said nonamers only earn 18 bucks per hour. That’s not 80K a year, which is a decent salary in most of the US. I guess you didn’t study accounting in New Haven, eh?
Bill I believe you are some sort of IT contractor, yes? You would have done as well with or without a degree. IT work is about the skills you have, not your pedigree. If I hire someone to write some code I don’t care if he graduated middle school, I care if he can write code.
$191,000 by the end of this year from January 1. Same last year but with a big tax break. Over $200k in 2008 and over $240k in 2007. Over $200k in 2006 also.
And I’m no IT guy. IT guys are involved in managing user accounts. They do not write software for embedded systems. They certainly do not analyze requirements for embedded systems, nor do they perform such software design.
I’m not a data base engineer either. I don’t do SQL.
There are so many different areas of software you are ignorant about.
You are too young to be aware that you develop good engineering methodology over time. With time you learn not to say “it works,” but be skeptical and be dam sure it works. As a contractor, that’s a given.
I did not tell you about all the mathematics I took in my undergraduate career. Happens that the texts were the same used by the Ivy league schools. Now you may be a non-technical type, but I tell you one thing: If you can solve the math problems that the Ivy leaguers can solve, and you are a state U student, that places you on an equal footing.
Eddie, you care if he can write code. But how do you prove that he can? I met people who have credentials up the ying yang who cannot write code.
But writing code is one thing. Getting it to do the task intended is another thing. A major thing you don’t know about. Proper testing with the hardware is the bottom line. And even that does not catch all the problems. Communication with system engineers and Integration Testers and Hardware is crucial. Requirements can change in the coding phase and then you have to find a very low cost way to make the changes that are necessary. It’s all about skill and experience, yes, but all this comes from having analytical skills you get in solving toy problems in college. It does not matter if it’s Ivy or State U.
Of course Eddie is wrong. He’s swallowed the hype of “top 50″ schools that just by attending, you’re part of an elite demographic and everyone else is headed for serfdom. Now that the “elite” have mucked up the Western World’s finances beyond repair, they’re attempting to disavow responsibility for the TEOWAWKI which is within smelling distance. Until then, the Eddies will blame the mess on others, hoping that those others dont come looking for them to square up accounts. Watch for serfs up coming to your state soon.
>Bill and Sean and cougar and everyone else who graduated from No Name U. Good for you. Exceptions to the rule.
After 15 years the median income for a Dartmouth grad is $129K.
Compare that to oh I dunno U of Wyoming since it was mentioned above, $80K
$129K vs. $80K. Yeah you’re right, there is no difference whatsoever. Unless you enjoy earning an extra $49K a year, then there may be just a teenie tiny bit of a difference.
I didn’t say anything about no difference between earning powers of graduates of an average school vs. a top tier school. Empirical evidence refutes any denial of such.
My objection is to your broad statement that unless you got into a top 50 college, don’t even bother. I can also show you empirical evidence of earning disparities between HS grad and an average college grad.
Why do you put so little thought into your postings?
Sorry Eddie..
But I disagree with you..funny had a guy I know who was a “mortgage broker” during the good ole days who had dropped out of college. He said, “Look at me I am a SUCCESS STORY without college!”..fast forward today…he is a car salesman and the McMansion is gone…
No saying that college will make you success story..but I would not want to be in this world today, competing for a job..without that piece of paper…
by the way she is going to a great state school(which she had to QUALIFY TO GET IN)..”Not a for profit advertise at night private college.”
Misty - some unsolicated feedback; use what is helpful.
ON LIVING AT HOME - Wise idea. Take this year by year. I assume that you’ve discussed with your daughter that while maybe she stays home for Year 1, if she really wants to be independent, she can always move out for Year 2. It’s never an all-or-nothing game.
MASTER’S DEGREE - Don’t pursue it as a means to land a first job. A huge waste of money - and time. And opportunities. I have numerous friends in HR, and they immediately deep-six all applicants with a masters degree. They don’t even get considered. Their thinking is that the applicants will be overly trained/educated, or will feel entitled. Headhunters now are telling candidates not to mention their master’s degree either on paper or during interviews.
Instead, your daughter should get a part time job with a professional-type organization while in college and stick with it. If they pay minimum wage, fine. Show tenacity on the job, and an interest in picking up valuable and portable skills. She should look for ways to parlay her initial duties into something more within that organization.
Remember that 20-year-olds have lots of energy in spades. Regimented schedules are good. Daughter will find plenty of opportunity to socialize/party even if her schedule is regimented. She has ENERGY.
RELOCATION - You better believe it! If your daughter wants to land a job upon graduation, she needs to be willing to go almost anywhere. To do that, keep debt levels way down. She’ll also need to be willing to rent for a while. Renting doesn’t mean your unsuccessful. Instead, it means you aren’t trapped. Tell her to stay nimble.
Lots of folk even today can’t find a job because they can’t or won’t move.
Excellent advise CoSpgs4…..May I add, my daughter was advised by the professors at her University not to pursue her Masters until she worked post graduate for at least four years preferably five or six…
YES - that is correct. Spending another $30-50K on a masters that you may never use (because you’ve switched into a different field after graduation) is lunacy.
Your daughter’s professors gave wonderful advice. You need to live your career before you know anything. If you still like what you are doing after 4-6 years of doing it, THEN pursue a masters.
Send those professors a card, or give them a call to thank them.
If a person is willing to work they can get a job as a teaching or research assistant while pursuing the masters degree. It is additional work besides your coursework, but covers tuition and provides enough to live on modestly. In essence, pursuing your degree IS your job. And with the commercial economy how it is, hiding out in academia for a little while is not a bad way to go right now. Why pay for something they will pay you for?
Thanks for the advice..CoSpg4
Yes, I told her it was a option for her to move out in year two is she so wanted and live at school(we can afford the dorms)…her comment was that she would consider that as a serious option so long as it didn’ REQUIRE her to get into debt…
In regards to finding a PT job in field she is doing that right now…another reason why she is reluctant to leave…we are fortunate enough that she has learned the value of budgeting by the way we live our lives and knows that because of this she can afford to take job that may not give her the pay she would desire but definitely “priceless” experience…
Thank you for the advice..it is wonderful to see someone so young develope a quick understanding how a few years of “financial obligations” can affect the next 20 years…
Sounds as if they all could get jobs helping run the finacial-aid office…
It shocked me how many people..young and older..were standing in the line..by the way we visited the college about 4 times before registration and each time the line was the same..
Misty, don’t forget that people die and people retire. In a “normal” economy most of those grads would become the replacements. But now?
My wife an I feel very fortunate that none of ours, who are all in their 30’s, ever boomeranged back home.
Mostly due to demographics, Bill. Those born in the 1970s were fewer in number; hence, their relative success in finding high-paying jobs easily. Fewer bodies = less competition.
Mostly due to demographics ??
To some degree yes…But off shoring/out sourcing has been the the big change…
I agree Bill..this is not a normal economy..boomers are working longer…college grads are competing against people with 5-10 years of solid experience….
In the late 1970s to mid 1980s there was a glut of software types and a glut of engineers. I spent eight years off and on in a state university, not knowing what I wanted to major in. I finally admitted I was best at math and got out in 1985. Great timing, as the jobs were starting to be plentiful.
Yes, don’t get any student loan and I hope your daughter goes into a technical field. A MS will help. I do not regret getting my MSCS.
Friends graduated from UCSB in 1992. Still have student loan balances of around 100k between the two. She got a masters in Archeology (not digging that, or much else–she sell real estate; she sells sea shells by the seashore). He got an eminently more useful degree in geography GIS specialist. Worked for himself until clients not paying their invoices landed him in trouble. He sees california as largely boarded up once you escape the coast in his mapping travails.
But student loans, deferred ad nauseum as they have been, just are not going away. Only know that the products that they have really raised, their children, always been a priority for the wife, are wonderful priceless beings. I graduated initially in a pre-law program in 1992, and I am astounded that 18 years later students loans still haunt this couple.
i would also like to take this space to answer a few questions thrown my way yesterday.
Have I liked “playing” at real estate investing?
To dustball or whoever your moniker was; Stating that not moving out of my wifes unit while we await foreclosure just making us more of the problem may be a bit misguided. Staying or leaving will not change the auction date, so why not keep the place up and not let vagrants in, gaurd against freezing pipes this fall, etc? Sure we would like a little more time here, but we are willing to leave whenever the bank asks us to, when she no longer is owner of record occupying her owner occupied mortgage. Maybe that I took a bit of cash that was left over and purchased a home with it before the mortgage ate it all may peeve you but I would do it again cuz it will lower our monthly nut, not having a mortgage against our home.
Has “playing” at real estate investing been fun for me? Yes! After getting the only loan I ever had (wife has one now, tho she is not paying after three years and 160k real money in down and monthlies). Originally I put 60k down, earned by vegetable brokering and direct sales, on coastal real estate in 1995, in order to get a granny flat above a 3/2 to live in affordably. I did not foresee this home becoming a million dollar house, but it sure was fun to sell it!
This “playing” has allowed us no worries about money until now, allowed us to raise our children in a two parent household. i got to run a small business renting out a 3/2 to students while the four of us squeezed into 440 sq feet unit cuz the larger pad brought in PITI plus; “playing” landlord to students and later to folks in Bend was rewarding in the sense of learning about running a business, and the pitfalls of being a sometimes absentee landlord.
Tangible financial gains; I only got a paid off car and truck and one paid off home to show for it.
The intangibles; I ran a business as landlord for over a decade. Got to see why most people don’t like it much. I know enough about real estate to sell it for a small fee of say 6%. It is “funner” when you are selling your own property though. Who cares if you have to pay 10k to mitigate for toxic mold when you are making 500k on a deal? Being at home with children and having money to go to school and become a teacher; that was fun. DIY projects when selling homes–fun! Surfing for 15 years–when friends were surfing net or cubicle monkeys–way fun.
so we are renting out my paid for starter home while we await my wife’s foreclosure, is that what you take issue with?? Dont know what to tell you, wife not eligble for Obama’s brainstorming programs such as Cash for Keys if we leave. So we are being legitimally incentivized to stay in our home and keep it nice until the bell tolls for us! Sorry if I hijacked the student loan thread, please feel free to carry on like I never said/wrote a word.
The greed of the hippie generation has guaranteed that those two “kids” born in 1970 will be paying off those student loans no time soon.
Maybe by 2030 - the time when those kids are 60 and when the hippie generation is no longer alive to collect - they’ll be able to pay off those loans.
Provided they aren’t broke from paying for the hippie generation’s medical care.
The Altruism of the Hippie Era. Grand, ain’t it?
So the hippies took over Wall St. and corporate boardrooms?
I think I missed that one.
If not hippies, progressives have certainly taken over WallStreet and corporate boardrooms.
‘Has “playing” at real estate investing been fun for me? Yes!’
Back in 2005-06, when a lot of stories ran through this blog about people living it up on the housing bubble, I began to form a personal theory about how it would unwind. I was living in a bubble crazy part of the world, where californians were buying million dollar houses sight -unseen, celebrities were building mega-mansions they rarely visited, and so-so local players were making a lot of money. It dawned on me that wealth wasn’t being created by all these activities, and that if I was right about the mania, it would have to be paid back, written off, or eaten by somebody at some point.
Keep in mind that many posters that have drifted by over the years weren’t renters that had never owned a house. Lots of folks had sold their place and many here including me were happy for them. But that doesn’t change the fact that the profits they took had to come from somewhere, and the economic carnage around us is the result.
Another huge problem about the housing bubble sits squarely in front of us today; that this mania diverted resources from productive parts of the economy for so long that we now find ourselves at a loss for jobs and it will take possibly decades to make that up, if we ever do.
I’m not blaming you for surfing for years while others were actually working for a living. I’m just saying that all this ‘playing’, which millions of people in the US did for a long time, has to be paid for, with interest.
Spot on Ben….
“It dawned on me that wealth wasn’t being created by all these activities, and that if I was right about the mania, it would have to be paid back, written off, or eaten by somebody at some point.”
Any recent insights on how far out into the future this repayment phase will extend, and on whose backs the bulk of the burden will land?
I am thinking our children may be the ultimate bagholders; I am encouraging all of mine to study foreign languages…
Here’s what bothers me. Where are the small business producers? Where are the small machine shops that used to produce widgets? Where are all the cabinet shops?
We drove 7k miles and four weeks going to and from Florida a month ago, traveling the
smaller routes, visiting smaller towns, skirting the major cities as much as possible.
What we saw was a swath of economic destruction that shocked my wife. Town after town, 25k-50k in population, dark windows everywhere, shops closed, small
factories shuttered, main streets empty.
We are not producing anything anymore.
And until we do, we aren’t coming back.
To come back, we have to lower wages to
bring down the price of goods, and when
you do that, no one will be able to afford
the products. An endless merry-go-round
of deflation.
‘we have to lower wages to
bring down the price of goods, and when
you do that, no one will be able to afford
the products’
The housing/stock bubbles didn’t happen in a vacuum, so a lot of long-term factors like globalism and military adventurism have fed a situation that doesn’t have easy solutions. But in the short term, there is some lemonade to be made out of the housing lemons. Namely, for most of us the biggest single expense is housing, and there isn’t any reason that cheap housing can’t be had by all. That would free up resources and make us more competitive.
You’re only now THINKING that today’s 25-50 year-olds are going to be the bagholders?
Where have you been? For the past 20 years, people born from 1955 to 1970 have been making a lot of noise about how their standard of living will be in life-long decline, only to end in a bankrupt Social Security. Real wages for recent college graduates have declined for 25 years! Meanwhile, your generation’s dual-income, six figure household incomes have made everything you obtained out-of-reach for 100 million people younger than you.
See any problems there?
You’ve listened to those born after 1955 whine for the past 20 years. Don’t say you haven’t heard them. It’s been non-stop. You heard it, but ignored it, likely considering such people as unenlightened brats. Because God knows, those born after 1955 are doltish incompetents. SAT scores say so, don’t you know.
Odd that it’s taken your generation until now to realize that their irritating “whining” is fully justified.
You should thank your lucky stars that Gen-X doesn’t riot in the streets a la the 1960s. People of your generation would take it on the chin. Physically speaking.
Ironic, isn’t it? Your generation’s moralistic platitudes have bankrupted succeeding generations.
Everybody know there’s no money to be made making stuff. You can make a lot more money in financial services. Manufacturing is where all those losers that don’t understand finance go.
Not only have the manufacturers been wiped out, but so have all those little mom and pop shops that provide subassemblies, tooling, components. etc. All that little stuff that makes the big stuff possible.
We have set ourselves up so that any “stimulus program” we create results in half of money being sent overseas, because you can’t buy it here anymore.
Thats exactly what I see in my Motor Home travels Rancher…But to Ben’s point, if the cost of housing declines to the point where it is easily affordable that does free up resources for more productive means…
A grass-roots effort at building bartering off-line exchanges also would help free up resources.
The government can’t tax transactions it is not aware of.
Being more competitive also necessitates that the American people put a stranglehold on your larcenous Political Class.
If you have to do without, so should they.
One of the synergies that made Silicon Valley famous was all of the “little mom and pop shops that provide subassemblies, tooling, components. etc. ” there that startups could turn to for making prototypes and limited production runs. Those small fab shops are going away. CAD is getting so good that prototypes can now be made elsewhere. Hence one more reason for SV to exist is draining away.
Well, yes and no.
Years ago I built widgets and thingamajigs.
I was having a 16 cavity injection mold being designed and the prevailing wisdom was to have it made overseas, specifically for this application, Taiwan. So before committing to anything, I visited 14 large and small custom molding houses throughout CA and found that what was thought to be true wasn’t.
It seems that, yes, initially the bids were much lower than domestic, but it turns out
that it took longer and ended up costing more because of the frequent trips back and
forth from here to Taiwan.
As it was, it took four re-works of the mold
before everything worked as I wanted it to,
and that was here.
This was after I had had three models done
at 10x scale by sterolithography to actually
work with the parts to see if my theories were correct in the design.
As far as I can see, it is getting cheaper every year to make things here, and we do
have the tooling and the talent to do so.
“Namely, for most of us the biggest single expense is housing, and there isn’t any reason that cheap housing can’t be had by all. That would free up resources and make us more competitive.”
That reminds me of something I was thinking about just this morning. I am wondering if Detroit might accidentally turn out to be one of the first American cities to recover during the Housing Bubble’s aftermath, as their housing prices have already reached affordable levels.
By contrast, California’s economy is likely to remain stuck in the toilet for much longer, due to home prices which are propped up on a quasi-permanently-high plateau.
Let’s compare notes on this conjecture come 2030.
Professor:
I doubt it, same with Camden NJ Gary IN Oakland….we saw here in Harlem a big decline, until people of another color decided to buy brownstones the city was selling for $1…..
That is the key to somehow get YOUR kids to invest in Detroit………then others will follow
‘You’re only now THINKING that’
Umm, no, not long time readers here. If you’d been around in the old days, you would know that we beat that horse to death, dug it up a few times and beat it some more. I don’t remember anything constructive coming from it either.
You should thank your lucky stars that Gen-X doesn’t riot in the streets a la the 1960s.
Slacker riot! Let’s go! Gabba gabba hey! (I’m gonna be a little late, though…it’s my TV night. And I gotta wait til mom gets home with the car;-)
Why don’t small companies make widgets anymore?
Because the US business environment is hostile to it. You have unions, osha, epa, workers comp, liability inusrance, upcoming ObamaCare costs, fica. And that’s before you pay income tax on the meager profits you might make after going through the regulations.
In China you have….wages and some bribes. No unions, no osha, no minimum wage, no ObamaCare. None of it.
It’s really not hard to understand.
“Because the US business environment is hostile to it. You have unions, osha, epa, workers comp, liability inusrance, upcoming ObamaCare costs, fica. And that’s before you pay income tax on the meager profits you might make after going through the regulations.”
Pure, unfettered horsesh!t. It’s because of poorly designed trade agreements and tax laws which allow US companies to take advantage of exceedingly cheap labor overseas. Wake up, troll.
To come back, we have to lower wages to
bring down the price of goods, and when
you do that, no one will be able to afford
the products. An endless merry-go-round
of deflation.
Exactly. There had to come a day when the rising vector of prices crossed the falling vector of wages.
If we are not at that point now, we will be the next time.
“Keep in mind that many posters that have drifted by over the years weren’t renters that had never owned a house. Lots of folks had sold their place and many here including me were happy for them. But that doesn’t change the fact that the profits they took had to come from somewhere, and the economic carnage around us is the result.”
Fantastic post, Ben. Especially salient IMO is the above.
Slowly, people older than 55 are starting to realize that they profited mightily off the backs of their juniors. It’s amazing how long it’s taking then to “get it.”
Those who can’t sell their $500K + McMansions after 1-4 years of trying are understanding the scenario first. Very few people their junior have anywhere near the income or assets to buy such hedonism-driven monstrosities.
And with things like Fannie/Freddie, ObamaCare, Cap & Trade either on the horizon or proposed, the few number of people that could buy today won’t be able to tomorrow.
Your post reminds me once again why the Fed needs to create more inflation in order to reflate the bubble. Otherwise, those on fixed pensions will enjoy the fruits of deflation while younger generations go jobless, underhoused and hungry, which would be unfair.
Intergenerational reallocation from old to young seems the only way forward.
You’re converging with Aladinsane….. better late than never.
The profits we took were from people who secured 0 down loans which we never partook of. they stole furniture and bolted down stuff and then foreclosed. While surfing it up, my wife and I continued to sell vegetables, albeit with the kids, and having hours that consisted of 4 10 hour days.
This allowed me to accrue the down and live the life for a few years, sorry for portraying myself as a surf BUM. I always worked until my back discs gave out on me, and since my insurance refused the surgery I had after the fact, and I could pay the docs cash for the procedure on my cervical spine. Now the insurance refuses to pay for FDA approved drugs claiming that their mixture of non-endorsed generics are just as good. Never mind I had tried those already. So medical costs for our family continue to be 20k per year out of pocket, we are scrambling to make ends meet, and granted the gains we made were at the expense of others, there exist deeper pockets clamboring for every penny we have. So I will take my paid off house and use it to live in in case we need to use it as a financial shelter.
Thank you Ben for this blog. I prefer lurking but see no need to hide from my personal interaction and gain/loss profile with this bubble. And selling at the top did not stop us from having our pants down when we doubled down, so it is now someone else’s turn to make some gain on us.
Glad we don’t have student loans, it is good to be 100k ahead than 100k behind given I still have a marketable skill from a bottom 50 college (Eastern Oregon U. teaching cred.) and I am studying Spanish hard to find a niche as a teacher cuz jobs are not hanging like summer peaches!
Until ownership actually transfers to the bank, you are probably responsible for any injuries that might happen on the property. It makes sense to me to stay there until the auction.
New York Times: individual investors fleeing stocks, due to poor performance and the baby boomer selloff.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/business/22invest.html?hp
Then again, perhaps that is one factor not two, as the boomers inflated stock prices (like everything else during their lives) in the buying phase, leading to poor performance when selling, especially since the generations behind them, now buying, are poorer.
More b.s. from the NYT.
This story likely is written by a boomer, who thinks the world stops with them. What nonsense.
There are plenty of people worldwide to more than support stock growth. Several hundreds of millions, if not billions, would invest if their governments and fellow abettors weren’t so corrupt.
Once individual investors begin feeling that won’t be fleeced by those in charge, the markets will come back.
“Once individual investors begin feeling that won’t be fleeced by those in charge, the markets will come back.”
I agree with you that there is a general distrust of the markets. Flash crashes contribute to this. Small investors are competing against computer programs and institutions that have teams of people who can spend 24 hours a day watching the markets. This is one reason I opposed privatization of SS. There are only so many things in which one person can be expert. If I hire experts, then some of my profits go to pay them for the same advice they are giving everyone else. And I still have to watch them to be sure they aren’t ripping me off.
Also from the article:
“According to the Investment Company Institute, which surveys 4,000 households annually, the appetite for stock market risk among American investors of all ages has been declining steadily since it peaked around 2001, and the change is most pronounced in the under-35 age group.”
I wonder how much is risk aversion vs simply not having the cash/too busy paying off student loans.
BTW, your anti-boomer screed is tiresome. You have some insights to contribute and I appreciate them. In the end, the boomers are just a big bunch of individuals each trying to maximize their lives based on their own priorities. Isn’t that what the free marketers are always saying we should do?
Wait four years for the locust swarm to pass. Then buy what they sold. Gotta be loaded with cash in the meantime. eight years for real estate, four years for stocks, four years for technical college degree. I profited by postponing my college graduation and by staying out of the RE bubble when my boomer friends were laughing at me for refusing to become a FB.
“As Argentina goes, so goes America in the race to see which country will go down in history as the worst kleptocracy”.
“As we see here, Argentina, jumping the gun on what Americans can anticipate with the newly announced deal between Google and Verizon; is consolidating power in the Internet space”. ~Clipped from Max Kieser.
Argentina orders Internet provider shut down
BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) - Argentina’s government on Friday ordered the closure one of the nation’s three leading Internet providers, demanding that Grupo Clarin immediately inform “each and every one” of its more than 1 million customers that they have 90 days to find new ways of getting online.
The order says Grupo Clarin—which has grown through mergers to become one of Latin America’s leading media companies—illegally absorbed the Fibertel company through its Cablevision subsidiary in January 2009 because it failed to obtain prior approval from the commerce secretary.
Cablevision denied that Friday, citing a previous approval obtained in 2003, and planned to appeal, accusing the government of continuing a campaign to stifle opposition viewpoints.
President Cristina Fernandez has made dismantling Grupo Clarin a priority of her government. A new law that has been challenged in court would force the company to break apart in a drive to dissolve media monopolies.
America’s Healthcare
Edward Hanway, the former CEO of CIGNA was provided with a retirement package worth $110.9 million, paid for by the excessive and unnecessarily high insurance premiums billed to CIGNA’s policy holders.
Medical bankruptcies now account for more than one half of all personal bankruptcies filed in the U.S. each year. However, the excessive out-of-pocket costs have become leading contributors to America’s one million medical bankruptcies reported each year. Keep in mind that medical bankruptcy is virtually unheard of outside of the U.S.
Amazingly, according to medical researchers at Harvard, between 50 to 78% of all medical bankruptcies are filed by individuals who actually had full health insurance.
That means that co-payments and other out-of-pocket costs alone are enough to wipe out the savings of millions of Americans who purchased health insurance as a financial shield.
Once you examine all of the data, it’s easy to see that America’s health insurance system doesn’t provide real insurance. It’s really a very costly system of pre-paid medical that sticks you with a large chunk of the bill when you really need medical care the most.
While millions of Americans continue to struggle with the consequences of the most colossal and fraudulent transfer of wealth in world history, health insurance companies continue to ratchet down their vice of control over the nation’s healthcare system, with double-digit increases in premiums and soaring payouts to industry executives. Indeed, profits from the nation’s largest health insurers are soaring.
During the first half of 2010, health insurers’ profits on average soared by more than 20%. Leading the pack was Aetna, with earnings skyrocketing to more than 40% in the second quarter of 2010 versus a year earlier.
According to reports from the seven largest health insurers’, the proportion of premium dollars spent on medical care (known as the Medical Loss Ratio, or MLR) in recent quarters has declined by a significant amount. CIGNA led the way with a 6.4% reduction in the second quarter of this year, down from 85.2% to 78.8% MLR. This year-over-year decline in MLR is unprecedented.
Sadly, America’s tightly controlled corporate media monopoly has convinced the vast majority of Americans to think they have a democracy, and that “things will be better when the republicans (or democrats) are in office.”
President Obama’s healthcare reform requires health insurers to provide higher quality care at lower administrative costs. According to the new law, health insurers will be required to spend 80 to 85% of policy holders’ premium (the MLR) on medical care.
However, because Obama failed to mandate (a badly needed system of) federal regulation for the entire insurance industry, it’s up to each state insurance commission to draft the specific regulations pertaining to the insurance portion of the law.
We are now seeing health insurers play the same game mastered by the credit card industry. As the new healthcare law draws closer to implementation, insurers have raised the administrative costs while lowering the premium dollars to be spent on medical care (MLR) so as to “grandfather” the system when it comes time for the new guidelines to be made.
“That means that co-payments and other out-of-pocket costs alone are enough to wipe out the savings of millions of Americans who purchased health insurance as a financial shield.”
That doesn’t follow. There could be credit card debt, auto debt. HELOC debt, then a medical problem shows up and it’s the last straw. There are usually lots of reasons for a BK, though calling it medical sounds better than the other.
It’s called a medical bankruptcy when the debt is the majority of total household debt.
That’s the difference.
Election Deadlock May Weaken Australian Dollar as Investors Avoid Stocks
Australia’s dollar may fall and equities investors may look to other markets after the nation’s federal election failed to deliver a majority government for the first time in 70 years, according to market analysts.
With the expiration of the $8K first time buyer federal tax credit behind us and the $10K first time buyer CA state tax credit expiration soon to come, I don’t know how these flippers expect to make a profit by purchasing foreclosure homes now, unless by investing sweat equity into homes which have started to fall apart due to sitting vacant too long. If that is what they are doing, then I say, “Happy flippin’ to ya”…
Professional investors move into flipping foreclosed homes
Squeezing out amateurs, private equity funds and wealthy individuals are buying distressed properties at public auctions, refurbishing them and selling them for quick profits.
August 20, 2010
By Walter Hamilton and Alejandro Lazo, Los Angeles Times
Hoping there are big profits to be made in the aftermath of California’s housing collapse, professional investors are flocking to the business of buying foreclosed homes at distressed prices.
The investors, primarily private equity funds and groups of wealthy individuals, purchase the homes at public auctions, which are held daily on the steps of local courthouses. They refurbish the properties and try to sell them for quick profits.
…
“Professional Investors”
People addicted to the proposition that unless you are getting a 10-15% ROI, you are “losing” money. Preserving cash in an economic environment like we have today is for losers.
So the bubble chasing continues.
I can’t help but think that if this was shooting fish in a barrel why aren’t the banks doing this themselves?
There is something puzzling about the whole idea of investors snapping up foreclosures well before the housing market has even bottomed out, isn’t there?
Yes, there is something very strange about this.
I’ve been to a to few auctions and let me tell you, by the time the bidding is done, nobody a got a deal. You could go to one every week for months and you MIGHT find a deal.
I’ve also remodeled and help flip a few houses and unless you get the property for literally pennies on the dollar, you won’t make money.
Those 2 factors alone are what makes the article smell fishy. If I had to guess, I would say it’s just outright propaganda.
Housing Can Find a Home Without Fannie, Freddie: Caroline Baum
Bloomberg Opinion ~ Caroline Baum
You are President Barack Obama, and your Summer of Recovery is looking like most lawns in the Northeast.
You succeeded in getting a financial reform bill through Congress, with many of the rules to be delivered in the future. But you have yet to address those malefactors of the mortgage market, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which are bleeding cash — almost $150 billion since the government seized them two years ago. What do you do?
1. Let Nancy Pelosi figure it out.
2. Let Barney Frank figure it out.
3. Appoint a blue-ribbon commission to come up with options.
4. Convene a conference featuring a big-name panel of experts, give it a lot of advance hype, and hold a public hearing where the panelists can look appropriately serious as they talk amongst themselves.
Obama chose No. 4. Anyone interested in the proceedings could hear opening remarks from Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan, the co-hosts. Then came two panel discussions before the attendees left for working breakout lunches. The menu wasn’t included on the agenda.
The public got a bird’s-eye view into the process when the government should be focused on principles.
To its credit, Treasury asked all the right questions when it sought public input on reforming housing finance in April. What is the proper role for government? Should that role vary depending on the segment of the market? What can we learn from other countries, such as Canada, that escaped the ravages of the housing boom/bust?
Poor Return
The answers to those questions are a sticking point for any reform. It’s fair to say the participants agreed on only two things: 1) the government’s involvement in 90 percent of mortgage originations is too big; and 2) Fannie and Freddie can’t remain quasi-private, quasi-public entities.
Treasury and HUD didn’t need to stage a conference to learn the U.S. isn’t getting its money’s worth from the substantial housing subsidy it provides, as Moody’s Analytics chief economist Mark Zandi told the audience. Or that those subsidies channel resources to housing that could go to more productive areas of the economy. Or that the country can no longer afford them.
BAE Systems to lay off 124 at western Pa. plant
The Associated Press
UNIONTOWN, Pa. — Defense contractor BAE Systems plans to lay off 124 workers - half of the work force - at its western Pennsylvania plant beginning in mid-October.
The company Friday attributed the Fayette County layoffs to a decline in military spending.
BAE mostly builds Bradley Fighting Vehicles at the North Union Township plant. Spokesman Randy Coble said the military’s demand for the plant’s services was greatest about two years ago, at the peak of the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.
A required notice filed with the state says BAE will lay off 53 workers in October, 63 in December and eight in January. Most of those to be laid off are production line employees. The company, which has a larger plant in York County, separately laid off 11 people this week.
Peninsula home sales plunge in July
By Patrick May
Posted: 08/19/2010 05:56:15 PM PDT
After steadily rising for several months, Peninsula home sales plummeted to near-historic lows in July as demand remained tepid and the federal homebuyer tax credits that had helped caffeinate the marketplace in the past year finally went away.
San Mateo County saw 463 sales of single-family resale homes, the lowest for a July in 20 years. In Santa Clara County, the 1,159 single-family resale homes that closed escrow represented a drop of 24.3 percent from the 1,531 sold a year earlier, making this the second-slowest July since 1990, according to figures released Thursday by the real estate information service MDA DataQuick.
And even though median prices rose in July from a year earlier, with a 7.2 percent rise in San Mateo County and an 8 percent increase in Santa Clara County, there are signs that recent home-price appreciation is losing steam. DataQuick’s sales figures for new and existing homes in the Bay Area show that the most recent price increase is the lowest in 10 months of steady gains.
Various factors helped pull down sales, but the loss of the federal tax credit made the drop especially dramatic, and DataQuick President John Walsh said his numbers hint at continued cloudiness in a real estate market being hammered by stubbornly high unemployment, meager job growth and tight credit.
“Some potential buyers, including those who held off until the tax credits expired, will take their time to assess market conditions, searching for signs of renewed price cuts,” said Walsh. “Depending on the economy and other factors, that might be what some of them find, especially in areas with a growing number of homes for sale — particularly distressed properties.”
…
With tax credit in rearview, July home sales fall 27% from last year
* by Jon Prior
* 11:59 AM August 19, 2010
Residential sales in July fell 27.8% from last year as the market heads forward without the homebuyer tax credit, according to the real estate brokerage chain RE/MAX.
In July, home sales fell 30% from June. The homebuyer tax credit, which gave a $8,000 to first-time homebuyers and $6,500 to existing ones, had an April 30 deadline to sign a sales contract. Double-digit drops have been common since. Pending home sales plummeted 30% in May, according to the National Association of Realtors (NAR). Two weeks after the credit expired, mortgage applications dropped 27.1%, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA).
RE/MAX surveyed closed transactions reported to multiple listing services (MLS) in 54 metropolitan areas. In each, sales were down from last year. July home sales in Houston dropped 25% from last year, according to the Houston Association of Realtors (HAR).
“With the expiration of the tax credit, home sales are making a serious correction, and it may take a couple of months for sales to find their footing,” according to the report.
Bill Gassett, a real estate agent with RE/MAX Executive Realty in Hopkinton, Mass. said even though he’s had a great year — thanks to some good fortune in securing quality listings — showings are beginning to slow.
“There certainly has been a slow down since the tax credit expired though. I have been fortunate in that I have had some very nice listings in attractive price points where there is not a lot of inventory,” Gassett said. “The amount of showings has decreased substantially over the last few months across the board in all price points.”
Gassett added, though, that REO buyers, usually investors, may not be concerned with a tax credit.
Despite the drop in sales, prices have remained level. The median sales price for July was $212,524, still 1.3% more than last year and only a 0.5% dip from the previous month. The highest climb came in San Francisco, where prices increased 16% — a trend the Northern California market’s seen across multiple indices. Prices in Boston rose 10%, and Honolulu climbed 9% from last year.
…
Related Stories
* Home sales in Houston fall 25% from last year: HAR
* Pending Home Sales Plummet 30% with Tax Credit Gone: NAR
* Pending Home Sales Up Again as Homebuyer Tax Credit Expires: NAR
* April Existing Home Sales Surge Ahead of Tax Credit Deadline
I don’t think we have seen the last of the tax credits for homebuyers.
Oh no. “Obviously” the housing market cannot stand on its own two feet without myriad government subsidies, which will soon have to be reinstated in order to keep the flow of campaign finance coming in from the REIC.
You would be surprised at how many other industries would be unable to stand on their own without massive tax breaks and other government “incentives.”
Why should RE be any different?
And not a Dime to help forestall evictions for renters….yes hope and change … glad he is enjoying himself on the golf course while America burns
What I’ve heard through the grapevine out here in Larimer County is that lenders are foreclosing on delinquent mortages and evicting the occupants.
That’s Fine with me….the sooner the better……throw the deadbeat bums out
Its the squatting in your “home” that is getting me so angry…sure it was fun to hear the stories a last year on this board of the peeps in FloorRiddah…not paying for 2 years..but now its way beyond just giving us the middle finger
Could a similar scenario play out some time soon in FL or CA? One can always hope…
The Financial Times
Greeks sell their yachts to avoid tax investigations
By Kerin Hope in Athens
Published: August 22 2010 16:18 | Last updated: August 22 2010 16:18
“For sale” signs have appeared on a handful of gleaming Italian-made power boats and luxury motor-yachts after a team from SDOE, Greece’s financial police, visited the crowded Alimos marina near Athens.
Other yacht owners are trying to sell their craft by word of mouth as SDOE steps up a crackdown on tax evasion by high-earning Greeks.
“Make some discreet enquiries and you’ll find plenty of sellers,” said a marine technician who asked not to be named, gesturing towards a large vessel flying a Cayman Islands flag.
With first-half budget revenues lagging behind projections, the finance ministry is trying to boost tax inflows by attacking “lifestyle” tax evasion.
Last week it set a target of collecting at least €2.5bn this year in fines and back taxes owed by thousands of Greeks who “forgot” to declare ownership of yachts, swimming pools and luxury cars on their annual tax return.
“Among the big-ticket items were power boats costing up to €1.5m,” said Theodoros Floratos, a SDOE official co-ordinating the investigation of yacht owners.
…
Roots of sales-tax hike lie in city pension increases
Key votes in 1996 and 2002 boosted top 20 pensions by 176 percent
By Danielle Cervantes, UNION-TRIBUNE
Craig Gustafson, UNION-TRIBUNE
Saturday, August 21, 2010 at 11:36 p.m.
COMING MONDAY: Who are San Diego’s top 20 pensioners, and what would their pensions have been without key city votes in 1996 and 2002?
The push for a half-cent increase to San Diego’s sales tax has just begun, but it actually goes back to past decisions by city leaders who chose short-term political expediency over the long-term interests of taxpayers.
The deals struck by labor leaders and city officials in 1996 and 2002 created a financial windfall for thousands of city workers, some of whom enjoy double or triple the pensions they would have under the previous program, according to an analysis of pension records by The Watchdog.
For example, the highest-paid retiree in the city’s pension system, former Assistant City Attorney Eugene Gordon, would have been due an annual benefit of roughly $64,600 after his 34 service years if city leaders hadn’t significantly increased retirement benefits.
Instead, bumped-up pension formulas entitled him to more than $155,000 annually when he retired in 2008. Factor in cost-of-living adjustments and special add-on programs approved by past city administrations and his current annual take is about $187,000.
To put that in perspective, a private retiree would need a nest egg of $3.8 million earning 5 percent a year to produce an income stream to equal $187,000 in the first year, plus 2 percent annual cost-of-living adjustments the city allows.
That person would be out of money after 30 years, whereas the city pension is in place for life.
The Watchdog reviewed data for Gordon and the city’s other 19 top pensioners. It found that, on average, pension boosts and programs approved by the city made them eligible for pensions 176 percent higher than they would have been.
…
METHODOLOGY
The Watchdog analysis included information about the pensions of 4,153 current service retirees and survivors, provided by the San Diego Employees’ Retirement System (excluding disability pensions). The data consisted of monthly allowances paid in February and was annualized for yearly figures.
The analysis arrived at three key data points:
Current pension: For the current benefit, no extrapolation was necessary. The Watchdog used data for actual payments issued by the retirement system that may include cost-of-living adjustments; payouts from city programs such as the Deferred Retirement Option Plan, or DROP; and credit from a program in which employees purchase credit for years they did not work. Overall figures in the story regarding pension trends and averages are based on this data.
Initial pension benefit: This figure was calculated to show an expected pension benefit with enhanced pension formulas and programs in effect at the time all top 20 pensioners retired. It was calculated using highest salary, years of service, age at retirement and a pension multiplier, all supplied by retirement officials. Because of the way the data was released, the estimates include purchased service credits but not payments from the DROP program, which allows employees to collect pension money in a special account before they retire. Individual circumstances are not captured in the analysis, which was designed to illustrate the scope of the benefit changes.
What that benefit would have been without key city votes: For the estimate of how the initial allowance would have differed without the 1996 and 2002 benefit boosts, the analysis used salary, service years and age at retirement and then applied the lower pension multipliers that were in effect until 1997. Again, individual circumstances and decisions about matters such as beneficiary payments would have changed actual payouts in a way that is not reflected in the data or the analysis.
To calculate pensions with and without the 1996 and 2002 votes, the newspaper was provided the highest one-month salary for the top 20 pensioners, a figure that was annualized to estimate the highest one-year salary. For the top 20 pensioners who were enrolled in DROP, the year of retirement was calculated per retirement system practices as the entry into the program, not the actual year that work stopped.
Each pensioner’s date of birth was not provided, although month of birth was. Therefore, a small number of retirement ages used in the analysis may be off by one year. For the top 20, a date of birth was determined using other public records.
Individual circumstances that may have affected initial payout — and estimated payout without key city votes — include lawsuit settlement groups, beneficiary options, tax law and employee contribution levels.
Finally, to figure the estimated nest egg that a private citizen would need to match the top city pensioner’s income, The Watchdog relied on the expertise of Jon Beyrer of Blankinship & Foster.
Journalism that upholds the public trust, regularly
Call 619-293-2275. Fax 619-260-5094.
E-mail watchdog@uniontrib.com.
These raises were justified at the time because of “the cost of living in California” (which includes the cost of putting a roof over your head).
We all now know that those costs were way out of whack, due to the housing Ponzi scheme.
Adjustments in pensions are totally justified. Grown-ups would take a look around and do something pro-active, instead of having a solution rammed down their throats. Of course, that will never happen.
Coming soon to cities/counties/ states near you: Strategic bankruptcies by same, to “renegotiate” their pension liabilities.
San Diego has Bankruptcy written all over it. Math just does not work. Cost of retirements, loans, etc far in the red. Put on a happy face with rose glasses and everything will be just fine!
It’s OK, the great weather will make up for it.
The Great San Diego Pension Grab worked out fabulously for the cream of the current crop of retirees. Too bad the city government, including the future generation of San Diego City Workers, has to get hosed as a result.
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• More than 450 city retirees, or about one in 10, have annual pensions above $80,000. That puts them in the top 1 percent of all Americans in retirement income.
…
In large part because of the 1996 and 2002 benefit increases, the city’s annual pension payment has grown.
In 2002, it was $54 million, or 7 percent of the operating budget.
Currently, the payment is $232 million, or 21 percent of the operating budget.
By 2025, it’s projected to be $512 million, or nearly 47 percent of the operating budget, if no changes are made to pensions or budgets.
…
“By 2025, it’s projected to be $512 million, or nearly 47 percent of the operating budget, if no changes are made to pensions or budgets.”
Is it realistic to believe that San Diego could allocate 47 percent of its operating budget to pension contributions, or is this merely a polite way of saying that either the city is bankrupt, the pension is busted, or both?
Inflation would solve these problems without the need for unpleasantness like bankruptcy. I refer of course to WAGE INFLATION.
The big problem is that we are seeing wage deflation, which is amplifying the retirement issue, as tax revenues are falling, and the guaranteed payments are effectively growing.
I know a retired cop in NV in his early to mid 50’s who is pulling down over $70k annually in retirement checks and I think his top title was Sargent. This guy could live another 30 years. The situation is totally unsustainable.
Grizzly:
I would not object if he is really really retired. he should have to prove each year by his income tax that he has no other jobs…..otherwise he should not collect till 65 at the least.
Oh, he’s most definitely working another job. But, even if he wasn’t, paying every retired cop $70k+ in NV just isn’t going to work out when the taxpayer footing the bill is making half that.
Well, if it`s a good thing then it`s O.K.
Obama Administration Defends Lackluster Foreclosure Programs; Says Interest Rates Will Remain Low To Help Housing Market
First Posted: 08-20-10 10:18 AM | Updated: 08-20-10 10:18 AM
The official touted the ever-growing pipeline of homes likely to enter foreclosure as a success in the administration’s fight to stem the rising tide of home foreclosures. It’s taking longer for homes to enter foreclosure, and it’s taking longer to evict homeowners once they enter foreclosure. The so-called “shadow inventory” of homes — those with severely delinquent mortgages, in foreclosure or already repossessed that have not yet been put on the market — has significantly grown since the administration took office and is estimated to range from 5 to 7 million homes. Through June, borrowers in foreclosure have been delinquent for an average of 461 days before being evicted from their homes, according to Jacksonville, Fla.-based data provider Lender Processing Services.
That’s a good thing, the official said, because it gives the market time to absorb these homes gradually — without leading to a dramatic drop in home prices. While analysts disagree — prices will decline when those homes flood the market, which many, like Mark Hanson, a housing industry analyst based in California, believe to be a virtual certainty — the official pointed to the futures market where traders are betting that home prices will remain stable through the fall of 2014.
the official pointed to the futures market where traders are betting that home prices will remain stable through the fall of 2014.
Interesting.
“…the official pointed to the futures market where traders are betting that home prices will remain stable through the fall of 2014.”
Do these ‘traders’ potentially include governments with unlimited financial fire power and an objective of convincing everyone that home prices have stopped declining?
Possibly. If so, it would make a good bet to get on the other side of, no?
I applaud the U-T’s move towards objective reporting on the San Diego real estate picture, away from cheerleading. This is a sea change from the approach during the bubble years.
U-T EconoMeter
Housing prices and sales: Where are they headed?
Panelists weigh in on the next 6 months
By Roger Showley, UNION-TRIBUNE
Saturday, August 21, 2010 at 3:52 p.m.
Introducing our weekly U-T EconoMeter:
Each week the Business section will ask its panel of economists to weigh in on an economic issue of issue to San Diegans. They’ll answer yes or no, up or down or give a neutral response. Sometimes they might be unavailable to participate.
If you have a question you’d like them to address, send it to roger.showley@uniontrib.com. Feel free to add your comments, as well.
This week’s question: In light of the latest MDA DataQuick figures showing sales down in July and prices slightly up from June:
Do you think San Diego’s housing market – prices and sales – will fall between now and the year’s end in the wake of the end to federal and state tax rebates?
* Results:
* Yes - 4
* No - 2
* Neutral - 1
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Has there ever previously been an 80 percent collapse in CA home construction over a five-year period? I’m thinking maybe during the 1930s, but probably not since.
Business
Home construction output worse than reported
But homebuilding still added $14 billion in California last year
By Dean Calbreath, UNION-TRIBUNE
Wednesday, August 18, 2010 at 3:01 p.m.
Homebuilding output in California declined more sharply than previously indicated, according to a construction industry report today.
…
The downfall of the California housing industry last year was worse than previously reported, according to a key industry report released Wednesday.
In 2009, new home construction in California contributed $13.8 billion to the state’s economy and employed nearly 77,000 workers, according to an updated study by the California Homebuilding Foundation and Center for Strategic Economic Research. That’s half a billion dollars less than the groups reported earlier this year.
…
The industry’s output has dropped 80 percent over the past five years, representing a loss of tens of billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of jobs. At its peak in 2005, the housing industry generated $67.7 billion dollars and 487,000 jobs.
The report shows that the impact of the decline in housing went far beyond the construction industry. Every dollar spent on new housing construction in California generates another 80 cents in total economic activity and that each job created through residential construction supports an additional 1.2 jobs, according to the report.
“The downturn in building activity has also generated a considerable decline in all of the sectors that supply goods and services to the construction industry as well as those that benefit from workers spending their wages,” said Ryan Sharp, director of the economic research center.
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Yesterday morning (a Saturday), a pipe started leaking that goes to my bathroom which was soaking the carpet in the master bedroom closet.
I had a wedding to go to, so I stopped by the resident manager’s apartment (yes, I rent), who promptly got on taking care of things. The plumber is here right now (on a Sunday) fixing it–he just went outside since it looks like the problem is more severe than he originally though.
Just another one of the joys of renting… I don’t even want to think about how much major repairs cost to get done on a Sunday, nor having to worry about replacing water soaked carpets.
Matter of fact, I put in an online request last evening to get maintenance to fix my A/C which was leakingbagain - happened three weeks ago. Maintenance came in at 10:00 this morning and fixed it. Hopefully no more problem till next summer. I love renting from a large corporation (equity residential, coast to coast apartments) - very carefree living!
Spending half my spare time doing house maintenance/upkeep is definitely something I don’t miss.
Plumbing’s fixed — $28 a day on rent is a *great* deal, especially when I remember how much it cost to get my septic tank fixed in the dead of winter when it decided to back up (with the ground frozen). (Oh, and that $28/day includes water, hot water, trash, etc.)
I know PB warned about the “bond bubble” yesterday and some also chimed in with agreement. However here is the counter-argument from someone who has a lot of the credibility in the economic blogsphere (The Pragmatic Capitalist, who got all the big macro econo calls correctly the at least the last 5 years I have read him/her):
http://pragcap.com/the-myth-of-the-great-bond-bubble
THE MYTH OF THE GREAT BOND “BUBBLE”
There is increasing chatter of the great “bond bubble” as U.S. Treasury bonds surge ever higher and deflation fears rise. This is just one more myth that has persisted in recent years (decades really) due to mass misconception of the way the bond market actually operates and this propensity to label everything as a “bubble”.
……………
There is ever increasing chatter of a bubble in the U.S. bond market. This idea of a bubble has become pervasive due to the myth that the U.S. government bond market can and will collapse under mounting fiscal burdens and the idea that bonds are “expensive” when compared to other assets.
Over the years investors have become increasingly concerned about the risk of sovereign default in the United States. China officially “hates” us. Alan Greenspan is frightened that the bond vigilantes are merely sleeping. Jeff Gundlach is worried that the United States is already insolvent. But are these concerns justified?
Bubble symptom numero uno:
DENIAL BY EXPERTS THAT THERE IS A BUBBLE.
Ignore the experts, and answer some questions for yourself:
1) How often have current conditions in the Treasury bond market, including the levels of interest rates and the yield spread between the short- and long-ends of the yield curve, ever existed before?
2) What typically happens after asset prices go parabolic on thinning volumes?
THINK, PEOPLE — DON’T TAKE THE EXPERTS’ WORD FOR IT!
But the author makes this good point:
“Some market participants have gone so far as to compare the U.S. bond market to the Nasdaq bubble. This is simply not a fair comparison. The Nasdaq declined 90% from peak to trough. If you buy a 10 year government bond and hold it to maturity you will receive your principle back in full in addition to the coupon payments. If inflation jumps from the currently low levels to 5% you will be sacrificing 2.5% per year in real terms. Certainly not a winning pick, but nowhere near what the apocalyptic results of the Nasdaq bubble were. “
“If inflation jumps from the currently low levels to 5% you will be sacrificing 2.5% per year in real terms.”
What if inflation jumps from currently low levels (like during the early 1960s) to double-digit levels like during the WIN years (late 1970s)?
What will stop that from happening again?
‘…this propensity to label everything as a “bubble”.’
Strawman miscaricature duly noted…
I think one of the author’s points was that a bubble, by definition, pops with severe consequences for its investors. He then points out that the worst case scenario with treasuries is you make less than inflation, which would only be devastating in a hyper-inflationary scenario. So calling it a bubble is misleading.
“He then points out that the worst case scenario with treasuries is you make less than inflation, which would only be devastating in a hyper-inflationary scenario.”
Either I miss the point, or he is wrong. Suppose, for instance, that inflation turned out to be ‘higher than expected’ over the next 30 years — say, seven percent annual on average instead of zero-to-negative. If you bought a 30-year bond at a yield of, say, four percent, then later learned that inflation was running at seven percent per year, you would be losing about three percent of the value of your investment each year — no big deal, right?
Except that, due to the magic of compounding, a three percent annual loss translates into a loss of 50 percent over a 24 year period (you know, the rule of 72?… 72/3 = 24) and a loss of ((1/1.03)^30-1)*100 = 59 percent of the principle value of your investment over thirty years.
Once the inflation cat was out of the bag and priced into yields, it would not be possible to sell your Treasurys without incurring a large capital loss.
Ask anyone who held long-term Treasurys during the latter-half of the 1970s if you don’t believe this could happen. No hyper-inflation is necessary.
>Except that, due to the magic of compounding, a three percent annual loss translates into a loss of 50 percent over a 24 year period (you know, the rule of 72?… 72/3 = 24) and a loss of ((1/1.03)^30-1)*100 = 59 percent of the principle value of your investment over thirty years.
You are talking about loss “after inflation”, certainly not in “principle value”. You never lose your principle in a bond investment unless the issuer defaults. And also I doubt very much inflation will hold steady in your example over the course of a 30 years bond held from issuance to maturity.
“And also I doubt very much inflation will hold steady in your example over the course of a 30 years bond held from issuance to maturity.”
You misquoted me; I said “on average,” not that inflation would “hold steady.”
All it takes is a a decade worth of double-digit inflation to offset many years of low inflation to get to a seven percent average over thirty years. For instance, suppose inflation was at 4% on average for twenty years out of thirty; if the (geometric) mean was 13.3% for the remaining ten years, the average over the entire period would be 7%.
If the above description qualifies as “hyperinflation” in your terminology, then I guess I agree with you.
Using your reasoning, then the following is also possible: some years of deflation, some years of low inflation, and a bout of high inflation over the life of the long bond. If this happens then you may not lose any money at all in the end on that bond. It all depends on how many years of each scenario take hold.
Look, I don’t know what’s going to happen going forward but to me a bubble is formed by greed, not by fear (the bond trade). Can bond be overpriced when inflation is higher than expected down the road? Yeap. But it won’t be anything close to a bubble in RE or a bubble in stocks.
BTW, I have no long position in bonds myself, except foreign currency bonds unhedged.
All it takes is a a decade worth of double-digit inflation
Have we ever had double digit inflation for 10 out of 30 years in American history?
“Have we ever had double digit inflation for 10 out of 30 years in American history?”
My example got you a 59 percent real loss on holding 30-year T-bonds. Milder scenarios (e.g. double-digit inflation for less than 10 years) will get you a lower, but still substantial, loss (e.g. 30 percent).
But your 59 percent loss example calls for economic conditions that have never occurred in our history. Your milder examples, which are perhaps more likely, result in losses that are manageable over time.
A 30 percent loss over 30 years isn’t a popped bubble, it’s a bad investment. That was the author’s point. He wasn’t saying treasuries were a good investment, he was saying they don’t appear to be in a bubble unless you believe we’re about to experience unprecedented inflation.
“A 30 percent loss over 30 years isn’t a popped bubble, it’s a bad investment.”
Our perspectives are clearly orthogonal. I don’t expect some kind of smooth loss over thirty years, but rather the same sort of expectations shock that ended the tech stock bubble and the housing bubble and the beanie baby bubble to end the bond market bubble.
You have worn out my patience to discuss this further. I suggest you read the article in the current edition of The Economist on this topic or research what happened to the value of Treasurys over the 1975-1982 period if you are sincerely interested in educating yourself.
Or, if you are feeling mathematically inclined, run the numbers: Look at the value of a 30-yr Treasury at a 4 pct yield compared to its value at, say, a 7 pct yield. You can use MS Excel to compare the value of a $1000 face value 30-yr Treasury paying 4 percent coupons (= 2% every six months + $1000 at the end of 30 years), valued at 7% semi-annually compounded. Just type in this formula:
=-PV(0.04/2,60,1000*0.04/2,1000) (= $1000.00)
This shows that the present value of $1000 paid in 30 years with 4% interest compounded semiannually ($1000*.04/2) and discounted at 4% semiannually (0.04/2) over 60 semi-annual periods is $1000.
Now run the scenario with interest rates at 7% — not at all unusually high by historic standards, and far below the 14% level reached by 1982 when Volcker was at the Fed:
=-PV(0.07/2,60,1000*0.04/2,1000)
Note the only change in the formula is that I am now discounting at 7% compounded semiannually (0.07/2) instead of 4%. The answer is $625.83, implying a 36.4% loss
( 100*($1000-$626)/$1000 ).
And what the heck — why not run the numbers on the full Volcker, just in case this time is not different after all:
=-PV(0.14/2,60,1000*0.04/2,1000)
The answer w/ an increase in T-bond yields to 14% is $298.04 — a loss of over 70% for anyone unfortunate enough to have to sell at that point, with the alternative to take the after-inflation value of coupon payments and lump sum repayment of principle after 30 years. Those who owned long-term bonds over the 1975-1982 period were creamed either way.
Any questions?
from the article:
“For example, the worst 12-month return for U.S. bonds since 1926 was –9.2%, while the worst 12-month return for U.S. stocks was –67.6% (12 months ended
June 1932).”
Losing 9.2% in a year is a bad investment, not a bubble popping.
Whenever I read something like this, I find myself yearning to know the financial position of the author. If I were trying to unload a lot of Treasurys onto greater fools, I would be sure to do so under cover of a “No bubble here” propaganda message.
This author, as far as I can tell, is a single person and no Bill Gross of Pimco. The only scenarios where hyperinflation can occur are:
1) The Fed were successful in not just reflating, but grossly reflating the economy.
2) Bond vigilante / buyer strike.
Both of these scenarios have been explained in painful details by that author as highly unlikely. He further points out that even after the greatest monetary easing and stimulus we are staring right in the abyss of deflation right now, so all the inflationistas have been dead wrong. USA is aka like Japan. Look at how low and how much lower the Japan long bonds have gotten 20 years after their housing bubble burst.
Frankly I do not know if this is right or wrong, but his arguments are concise and uses historical precedents.
“Look at how low and how much lower the Japan long bonds have gotten 20 years after their housing bubble burst.”
Deflation is to Bernanke as kryptonite is to Superman.
I have to assume it is different in Japan, which has endured 20 years of deflation so far…
Op-Ed Columnist
Paralysis at the Fed
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: August 12, 2010
Ten years ago, one of America’s leading economists delivered a stinging critique of the Bank of Japan, Japan’s equivalent of the Federal Reserve, titled “Japanese Monetary Policy: A Case of Self-Induced Paralysis?” With only a few changes in wording, the critique applies to the Fed today.
At the time, the Bank of Japan faced a situation broadly similar to that facing the Fed now. The economy was deeply depressed and showed few signs of improvement, and one might have expected the bank to take forceful action. But short-term interest rates — the usual tool of monetary policy — were near zero and could go no lower. And the Bank of Japan used that fact as an excuse to do no more.
That was malfeasance, declared the eminent U.S. economist: “Far from being powerless, the Bank of Japan could achieve a great deal if it were willing to abandon its excessive caution and its defensive response to criticism.” He rebuked officials hiding “behind minor institutional or technical difficulties in order to avoid taking action.”
Who was that tough-talking economist? Ben Bernanke, now the chairman of the Federal Reserve. So why is the Bernanke Fed being just as passive now as the Bank of Japan was a decade ago?
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I’m on a plane somewhere over Minneapolis, reading the HBB. Life is good. Although, I’m wondering if this much access is really in my best interest!
Safe travels!
Thanks! Still kinda strange reading you guys in real time like this!
Still up there? I fly out of phoenix in forty minutes. One hour flight. WiFi $4:00. No thanks.
Santa Cruz Sentinel
Jeffrey Scharf, Everybody’s Business: Fannie and Freddie played a role in financial crisis
Posted: 08/22/2010 01:30:07 AM PDT
“Fannie and Freddie were allowed to build up substantial portfolios of mortgage-backed securities, which rose to a level of more than $1.6 trillion dollars at their peak, without the financial resources to cover potential losses…. [This was made possible by] the toxic combination of a perceived guarantee by the government and an absence of effective oversight. [Fannie and Freddie] were not the sole causes of the crisis, but they made the financial crisis worse. And they resulted in huge losses for the taxpayer.”
– Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, speaking at the “Conference on the Future of Housing Finance
At long last, a ranking government official has come close to recognizing the central role of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the government in the financial crisis.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were originally government agencies similar to today’s FHA. For a modest fee, a mortgage originator could pay Fannie or Freddie to guarantee loan payments if a borrower defaulted. To make sure that defaults would be uncommon, Fannie and Freddie enforced what came to be “conforming” lending standards — down payments of at least 20 percent and documented income approximately three times annual principal, interest and taxes.
In time, Fannie and Freddie became publicly traded companies although they retained federal charters subjecting them to oversight by politically appointed directors and Congressional directives. These charters gave
significant advantages over their private competitors — Fannie and Freddie were exempt from state and local taxes, did not have to file financial reports or offering documents with the SEC, and were allowed to operate with much greater leverage and less capital than banks. Most importantly, Fannie and Freddie were perceived as having the financial backing of the United States Government although legally they did not.
Things were going reasonably well until Fannie and Freddie expanded into the business of buying mortgages. With lower funding costs and other advantages, Fannie and Freddie were able to marginalize their competitors and amass the $1.6 trillion of mortgage-backed securities cited by Geithner.
Even this might have been OK had Congress not given the companies lending quotas that induced the companies to lower mortgage lending standards. The frenzy of sub-prime lending followed. As more and more buyers “qualified” for loans, home buying demand accelerated driving prices ever upward. Rising prices made it appear that lower lending standards did not increase losses thereby creating the rationale for still lower standards.
When the bubble burst, Fannie and Freddie were broke. The government could have allowed the companies to go into bankruptcy with losses absorbed by bondholders such as China, Pimco and others who took their chances on non-government guaranteed debt and lost. Instead, as it did in so many other cases, the government made good on the debt and stuck taxpayers with losses that are expected to reach $300 billion.
One might think that the best way to prevent a recurrence of this disaster would be to put Fannie and Freddie into run-off and get the government out of the mortgage business. Geithner takes a different view, “As I have said in the past, I believe there is a strong case to be made for a carefully designed guarantee in a reformed system, with the objective of providing a measure of stability in access to mortgages, even in future economic downturns.”
Well, we had a carefully designed system and it was overthrown to suit political purposes. To quote President Barack Obama quoting Albert Einstein, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
“At long last, a ranking government official has come close to recognizing the central role of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the government in the financial crisis.”
I guess it would never have happened if a government official hadn’t recognized it?
Did it happen in any other countries? I guess they all have Fannies, too.
They still don’t want to recognize that the real problem is asset backed securities.
Back online after most of a week of vacation.
SanFranciscoBayAreaGal: so very sorry to hear about your loss… Your mom sounded like an amazing person, and you were truly blessed to have her.
My sympathies, too, SanFranciscoBayAreaGal. I missed the sad news, but I remember you saying your mother was sick a while ago. At least she is at peace, now. Remember the good times, there’s no better way to honor someone.
alpha,
Thank you for your kind words. You are so right about remembering the good times. That is what she would want all of us to do.
Prime,
Thank you for your kind words. I do feel truly blessed.
Sorry to hear that SF Gal. Stay strong and positive.
SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
I too, send my condolences to you in the passing of your mom. Evidently, she left good memories as her legacy. You’re such a great gal, no doubt you came from good stock. She’ll always be part of you. Hugs sent your way in cyberspace.
(It feels surreal, doesn’t it? Have patience with yourself.)
It’s great to know that belief in magic has not died out in 21st Century California.
Conjuring Magic To Cover States’ Debts: Fiscal Reality Sets In
Written by Bob Adelmann
Thursday, 19 August 2010 07:00
The first warning about the possible bankruptcy of the town of Vallejo, California, was reported by the Associated Press on February 28, 2008, when Councilwoman Stephanie Gomes said, “Our financial situation is getting worse every single day. No city or private person wants to declare bankruptcy, but if you’re facing insolvency, you have no choice but to seek protection.”
Marci Fritz, vice president of the California Foundation for Fiscal Responsibility, blamed the action on promises made earlier by the council to the city’s employees concerning salaries and retirement benefits that the city no longer can afford. According to Fritz, these were promises made during economically flush times, and were due to the city council’s unrealistic expectations that those times would continue indefinitely. She said, “It’s a nightmare for city governments because they have to continue to pay these benefits that were granted when they had extra money from real estate and sales tax[es].”
Vallejo, a city of 120,000 across the bay from San Francisco, faced a $9 million budget shortfall at the time, owing to soaring payroll costs for its firefighters and police officers whose pay and pension costs make up almost 80 percent of the city’s budget. Those pay packages were negotiated with the unions representing those workers, and were necessary, according to spokesmen for the city, to be competitive with surrounding towns.
In May of 2008, the council voted 7-0 to declare Chapter 9 bankruptcy to “reorganize its finances,” which meant attempting to break the promises it had made earlier to the unions through the bankruptcy court. By this time, the budget shortfall had increased from $9 million to $15 million, despite efforts to cut expenses for museums, public works, senior centers, and libraries. The bankruptcy process allows the judge to void the union contracts, which essentially forces the city workers to accept a pay package that the city can afford, in light of declining tax revenues. But city employees weren’t the only ones at risk: The city had sold tax-exempt general obligation bonds whose interest payments would also be reduced or even eliminated. With an annual budget of $80 million, the city owed $53 million to those bondholders, and another $220 million in unfunded pension and retirement health benefits, totaling more than three times the city’s annual revenues.
When Judge Michael McManus determined that labor contracts can be broken in the Chapter 9 bankruptcy, union spokesmen said this set a dangerous precedent for other cities and townships in similar trouble to “do a Vallejo.” However, because of a binding arbitration clause inserted into the city charter in 1970, unions were able to renegotiate another contract with the city and, starting in July, 2010, police officers are getting a seven-percent pay raise. New Vallejo Councilwoman Marti Brown was appalled: “No one is getting a 7 percent increase, even in cities not in bankruptcy.” This raise takes place when the city’s budget has decreased from over $80 million in 2008 to just over $63 million in 2010.
The city of Maywood, California, took a different approach to its fiscal difficulties. On July 1, 2010, everyone on the payroll was fired. The Los Angeles Times said that by laying off an estimated 100 workers and contracting the remaining essential services such as finance, rec-ords management, parks and recreation, and street maintenance to a nearby town, Maywood would save the city $165,000 a year. On July 1, “We will become a 100 percent contracted city,” said interim City Manager Angela Spaccia.
San Diego is considering bankruptcy as a result of a report by the San Diego Grand Jury that “such a step could help the city cut its onerous retirement and health benefits.” At present the city has an unfunded pension obligation of $2.2 billion and another unfunded retiree healthcare liability of $1.3 billion. And MoneyNews said that San Diego is the fifth major city in the state to consider such a move, along with Los Angeles.
The recent exposure by the Los Angeles Times of the outrageous salary and retirement benefits being provided by Bell City to its City Manager and Chief of Police confirms the attitude of entitlement and disregard for fiscal responsibility that appears to be rampant in cities across the state and the country.
Papering Over Problems
All of this is putting the state of California on the “verge of system failure,” warns Jean Ross, executive director of the California Budget Project. With an annual budget of about $125 billion, California faces a $19 billion shortfall this year, and an expected $37 billion gap next year. But that’s just the tip of the iceberg. A recent Stanford University study concluded that the state’s pension fund is short by roughly $500 billion. The study urged Governor Schwarzenegger “to inject $360 billion into its public benefit systems … [just to] have an 80 percent chance of meeting 80 percent of [the state’s] obligations over the next 16 years.”
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Aug. 22, 2010, 8:25 p.m. EDT
Inflation, not deflation, Mr. Bernanke
Commentary: World divides into ice-cold and red-hot economies
By Andy Xie
BEIJING (Caixin Online) — In the wake of a barrage of bad economic data, the yield on two-year U.S. Treasury notes has tumbled to 0.5% and the 10-year note to 2.8%, almost reaching the levels after Lehman’s collapse. Pundits in the U.S. and other Western countries are talking about deflation again.
The decline in the consumer price index for the past three months gives this view ammunition. The Fed is coming under pressure to resume quantitative easing (QE). In anticipation of the Fed resuming QE — nicknamed “QE 2″ — the dollar has declined quickly by 10% from its recent high. Both the Treasury and currency markets have already priced in “QE 2.”
The Fed just downgraded the U.S.’s economic outlook and decided to reinvest its proceeds from its huge mortgage-bond holdings in Treasurys. It is not quite “QE 2,” as it doesn’t involve additional QE, just maintaining the past liquidity injection. But it leaves much for the market to imagine.
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Pension reform revolution is coming. Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa can either ride the wave or get crushed by it.
Posted: 08/22/2010 09:18:22 AM PDT
THERE’S a rebellion brewing. The gaping disparity between private sector and public sector workers’ pay and benefits has fueled an uprising that is playing out across California and the country. And nowhere is this disconnect more apparent than in publicly funded retirement plans.
Weak-kneed politicians have created a system of haves and have-nots - the haves are public employees with generous, guaranteed pensions, no matter the state of their pension fund. The have-nots are the private sector workers, who have taken a hit on both sides of the equation; they lost value on their own retirement plans and then have to fork over more taxpayer dollars to keep public employee pensions secure.
Finally, politicians have picked up on the public fury and are beginning the process of reform.
At least seven states have required existing or new public employees to pay more toward their retirement; Colorado and Minnesota legislators even took the unprecedented step cutting promised cost-of-living increases for retirees. Bakersfield and San Jose officials put measures on the November ballot designed to roll back pension benefits for public employees. And voters in San Francisco and Menlo Park bypassed reluctant elected officials and collected enough signatures to qualify their own pension reform initiatives.
And can you blame them? While Average Joes suffer stagnant wages and punch the clock until until 66 or so, they see friends or family members -
police officers, firefighters, city workers - retire at 50 or 55 with generous monthly checks, sometimes as much as 90 percent of their best-paid year of work, and free health care for life.
Over the last month, we’ve called on Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa to tackle the city’s key issues. As part of that, we asked readers to tell us what is the No. 1 problem Villaraigosa should tackle. Overwhelmingly, the most frequent answer was employee pension and pay reform.
They ask how city leaders and workers can defend a system that requires taxpayers to spend $1.4 billion this year to fund city retirees’ pension and health care, while programs for the unpensioned poor are cut, current workers are laid off, libraries close an extra day each week and infrastructure is allowed to crumble. Retiree obligations are projected to cost $2.2 billion by 2015.
Their outrage is more than just pension envy. The foul economy has exposed fundamental flaws in the promises Los Angeles has made to its workers. They are simply unsustainable.
Pensions will eventually bankrupt Los Angeles if not dealt with soon. Villaraigosa must do more than tinker with the budget. He must use the small window of opportunity opened by the economic downfall and the public disgust over government salaries to force through full pension reform within the year. In so doing, not only will he set Los Angeles on the path to long-term sustainability, he will make the city a model for pension reform around the country.
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Though this article is already five months old, it seems somehow still pertinent.
Can California Declare Bankruptcy? What about Greece?
By Christopher Beam
Posted Monday, March 8, 2010, at 5:01 PM ET
California passed a gas tax last week to help make up for its nearly $20 billion budget gap, the latest in a series of measures to right the state’s teetering economy. The country of Greece is in even worse shape, with accumulated debt higher than 110 percent of GDP, set to reach 125 percent this year. Can a state declare bankruptcy? Can a country?
No and no. Chapter 9 of the U.S. bankruptcy code allows individuals and municipalities (cities, towns, villages, etc.) to declare bankruptcy. But that doesn’t include states. (The statute defines “municipality” as a “political subdivision or public agency or instrumentality of a State”—that is, not a state itself.) For one thing, states are said to have sovereign immunity, as protected by the 11th Amendment, which means they can’t be sued. In other words, they don’t need any protection from angry creditors who would take them to court for failing to pay their debts. As a result, states can simply borrow money ad infinitum.
Say the state can’t make its debt payments, and no one will lend it any more money. In that case, the federal government can step in and put the state into receivership. This would involve the assignment of an accountant to manage the state’s debt, overseen by a judge. It would be a lot like bankruptcy, except instead of following a structured set of steps—informing creditors, appointing creditors’ committees, a 120-day window to file a plan, etc.—a receiver has the authority to force creditors to renegotiate loans in a speedy fashion. However, the accountant in charge would not have the power to make decisions about the state’s budget, such as which programs needed to be cut and which taxes had to be raised. (No state has ever gone into receivership.)
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This news should be good for Keynesians who favor broken window economic stimulus over any sign of a slow down.
* REAL ESTATE
* AUGUST 23, 2010
Mortgage Fraud Is Rising, With a Twist
Adopting to Tighter Rules After Collapse, Scammers Turn to More Complex Plots
By ROBBIE WHELAN
New data suggests that mortgage fraud—which got tougher to pull off after the collapse of the U.S. real estate market—is returning in a big way.
Data prepared for The Wall Street Journal by research firm CoreLogic, examining about seven million home loans made by hundreds of lenders, show that losses from mortgage fraud—ranging from falsified credit reports to identity theft—rose 17% last year after declining 57% in the two years after its 2006 peak.
In 2009, $14 billion in loans, or about 0.7% of all mortgage loans made in the U.S., were originated with fraudulent application data.
The figures are a fraction of the mortgage market, but the increase is sharp.
CoreLogic, which tracks fraud only by mortgage value, examines about 7 million loans each year using a proprietary computer program that detects discrepancies in loan documents and predicts the likelihood of fraud. The real losses to banks won’t be known for several years when banks are forced to write off the value of the loans’ value.
New data suggest losses from mortgage fraud nationwide rose 17% last year. Above, a view of Las Vegas, where home prices have fallen.
Some of CoreLogic’s profits come from selling market research to lenders aiming to cut losses from mortgage fraud.
Investigators and lenders say they are seeing a similar upswing in fraud.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation in June indicted a Phoenix man for mail and wire fraud among other alleged crimes when the agency says he tried to steal a house from his landlord. Also in June, federal prosecutors in New Jersey charged 29 defendants—including 12 real-estate agents, four mortgage consultants, an appraiser, a bank employee and a mortgage broker—with wire fraud in an alleged scheme involving 17 properties in the state and losses of $5.5 million.
“Even though we have certain compliance measures in place, people will adapt whatever scheme,” said Sharon Ormsby, the FBI’s section chief for financial crimes. “It doesn’t matter if the market is going up or down.”
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Program to Modify Loans Loses Steam
By NICK TIMIRAOS
The Obama administration’s loan-modification program appears to be running out of eligible borrowers who can qualify for restructured loans.
The number of homeowners who began government-sponsored loan-modifications in July grew by the slowest rate since the program began nearly 18 months ago and was dwarfed by the number of borrowers whose modifications were canceled.
Half of the 1.3 million modifications that have been extended to borrowers have been canceled since the program began, and around one-third, or around 422,000 borrowers, have received permanent loan modifications.
So far, the Home Affordable Modification Program, or HAMP, has helped hold back the shadow inventory of more than seven million loans that are delinquent or in some stage of foreclosure, which has helped home prices to stabilize over the past year.
In July, nearly 17,000 new trial modifications were started. More than five times as many borrowers saw their reduced-payment programs canceled, either because they failed to make payments, didn’t provide necessary financial documents, or didn’t meet qualification guidelines.
Still, it isn’t clear how many of those borrowers will ultimately go through foreclosure. Among the top eight mortgage-servicing companies, around half of all borrowers who exit the government program end up receiving a modification or become current; just 15% are in some stage of foreclosure.
Under HAMP, lenders receive incentives to help troubled borrowers avoid foreclosure by reducing their mortgage payments through a combination of a longer term and a lower interest rate. Homeowners must make at least three “trial” payments before the modification can become permanent.
In an effort to scale up the program quickly, officials initially prodded banks to begin trial modifications without obtaining supporting documents to make sure borrowers were eligible. That has produced a high rate of modifications that are ultimately canceled, and the Treasury Department earlier this year began requiring banks to qualify borrowers before beginning the trials.
The Treasury warned on Friday that cancellations will exceed the number of new modifications for the next few months as banks “clear their backlog of aged trials.”
Officials said it was unfair to write off HAMP as a failure because they say it has forced the mortgage industry to focus its efforts to provide sustainable loan modifications.
“This program has actually been transforming the mortgage-servicing industry,” said Herbert Allison, assistant Treasury secretary.
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* BUSINESS
* AUGUST 23, 2010
Credit-Card Rates Climb
Levels Hit Nine-Year High as New Rules Limiting Penalty Fees Help Fuel Rise
By RUTH SIMON
Interest rates continue to tumble for the U.S. Treasury, companies and home buyers alike. But for a large portion of 381 million U.S. credit-card accounts, borrowing rates have been moving only one way: up.
And average rates are likely to climb further in the near future.
New credit-card rules that took effect Sunday limit banks’ ability to charge penalty fees. They come on top of rule changes earlier this year restricting issuers’ ability to adjust rates on the fly. Issuers responded by pushing card rates to their highest level in nine years.
In the second quarter, the average interest rate on existing cards reached 14.7%, up from 13.1% a year earlier, according to research firm Synovate, a unit of Aegis Group PLC. That was the highest level since 2001.
Those figures look especially stark when measuring the gap between the prime rate—the benchmark against which card rates are set—and average credit-card rates. The current difference of 11.45 percentage points is the largest in at least 22 years, Synovate estimates.
By comparison, the spread between 10-year Treasurys and a standard 30-year fixed-rate mortgage is just 1.93 percentage points, near historical averages, according to mortgage-data provider HSH Associates.
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“The focus is now on execution…”
Sounds quite unpleasant.
* BUSINESS
* AUGUST 22, 2010
Hiring Spree Gets Long in the Tooth
By LIZ RAPPAPORT And CARRICK MOLLENKAMP
Wall Street employees about to return from the summer doldrums have something new to worry about: their jobs.
The weak economy, volatile markets, regulatory upheaval and changes in how traders and investment bankers are paid are starting to trigger job cuts that could reverse a recent rebound in overall employment levels at banks and securities firms.
While the firings so far add up to a tiny slice of all Wall Street jobs, companies and analysts say deeper cuts are looming unless business revs up soon. “When push comes to shove, Wall Street firms are erring on the side of caution,” says Michael Franzino, head of the global financial-services practice at executive-search firm Korn/Ferry International in New York.
Barclays Capital, the investment-banking unit of Barclays PLC, has eliminated about 400 jobs, most of them back-office positions. Credit Suisse Group AG has warned its staff that the Swiss bank might trim 75 positions from its London office.
And other firms are contemplating cuts as they look at their bonus pools for 2010 amid sluggish securities sales and trading. The outlook for merger activity also remains cloudy despite last week’s surge in deal making to its highest level since December 2009.
Some firms say that the recent job cuts are routine and that they will continue to hire people for roles that are especially important. Other companies are continuing to expand the businesses they entered as financial markets recovered last summer.
Nomura Holdings Inc.’s Nomura Securities unit has hired more than 600 people since March 2009 and is going ahead with plans to hire at least 300 employees by next March.
But even Wall Street firms that have been in hiring mode are completing those moves. UBS AG Chief Executive Oswald Grübel said last month that the “rebuilding of our fixed income is nearly completed,” referring to the addition of 300 employees to the Swiss bank’s fixed-income operations since 2009.
“The focus is now on execution and how can we increase revenue and client business,” he said.
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Unfortunately, the events of 9/11/01 will be forever associated in the minds of Americans with the actions of the Islamic terrorists who flew the planes. It is hard to understand why so much of the world is mystified regarding America’s heated debate over building an Islamic center at Ground Zero of the 9/11 attack. Certainly there are plenty of other locations around New York City which would provide suitable alternatives without providing such a painful reminder of the religious affiliation of the 9/11 perpetrators?
It is pretty clear at this point that this issue will stay alive for at least the next two years as a 2012 presidential campaign issue.
Islamic center debate stupefies Muslim world
The heated debate across America over construction of an Islamic center near Ground Zero is reverberating across the globe, with the …
By Borzou Daragahi
Los Angeles Times
New York police on Sunday separate demonstrators — for, left, and against the construction of an Islamic center near Ground Zero. No physical clashes were reported, but nose-to-nose confrontations were plentiful. Opponents appeared to outnumber supporters.
Enlarge this photo
DON EMMERT / AFP/GETTY IMAGES
New York police on Sunday separate demonstrators — for, left, and against the construction of an Islamic center near Ground Zero. No physical clashes were reported, but nose-to-nose confrontations were plentiful. Opponents appeared to outnumber supporters.
BEIRUT — The heated debate across America over construction of an Islamic community center near Ground Zero is reverberating around the globe, with the potential of creating a black eye for the United States.
Many Muslims abroad are miffed by the debate, largely conducted by non-Muslims, that has grown so loud as to become a topic of discussion on talk shows and newspapers from Bali to Bahrain, from Baghdad to Berlin. The proposed Cordoba House has become a symbol of America’s fraught relations with the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims.
“Rejecting this has become like rejecting Islam itself,” said Ahmad Moussalli, a professor of Islamic Studies at the American University of Beirut. “The United States has historically been distinguished by its tolerance, whereas Europe, France, Belgium and Holland have been among those who have rejected the symbolism of Islam. Embracing it will be positively viewed in the Islamic world.”
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I for one, really don’t care what an intolerant philosophy thinks.
Without getting into the underlying calculations, this story strikes me as highly implausible on the face of it.
For starters, why did they pick the scenario values of 60 percent and 63 percent drops in Chinese housing prices?
And it seems highly unlikely that while a 60 percent drop in housing prices would have no noticeable effect in the default rate on Chinese home loans, a 63 percent drop in prices would some how be catastrophic.
China property plunge would barely dent CCB
BEIJING | Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:13pm EDT
BEIJING Aug 23 (Reuters) - If housing prices in China plummeted by 60 percent, there would be no noticeable increase in the default rate on loans issued by China Construction Bank (CCB), a newspaper report reported on Monday.
CCB (601939.SS), China’s biggest lender to home buyers, would only suffer a clear rise in defaults if property prices tumbled by 63 percent, the 21st Century Business Herald reported, citing an unnamed source who is close to the bank.
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