Bits Bucket For September 17, 2010
Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
About Me
Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
To donate by mail, or to otherwise contact this blogger, please send emails to: thehousingbubble@gmail.com
PayPal is a secure online payment method which accepts ALL major credit cards.
Links
-
January 2025 M T W T F S S « Sep 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Photo Submission: hbbphotos@gmail.com
View the HBB Photo Gallery *updated 4/13/2008
LMFAO!!! I’m sure we will be getting a “global climate disruption” czar very soon. Team Barry…we’re on it since day one! Party on Garth! What a sick joke.
White House: Global Warming Out, ‘Global Climate Disruption’ In.
News Wire
From the administration that brought you “man-caused disaster” and “overseas contingency operation,” another terminology change is in the pipeline.
The White House wants the public to start using the term “global climate disruption” in place of “global warming” — fearing the latter term oversimplifies the problem and makes it sound less dangerous than it really is.
White House science adviser John Holdren urged people to start using the phrase during a speech last week in Oslo, echoing a plea he made three years earlier. Holdren said global warming is a “dangerous misnomer” for a problem far more complicated than a rise in temperature.
Isn’t toning down the rhetoric counterproductive in the global hyperventilation scheme?
Indeed. The “Throw Everything at the Wall and Hope Something Sticks” routine.
I can think of one thing that sticks to walls when thrown, and you wouldn’t want to have to smell it.
The funny thing is “Global Climate Disruption” is apparently supposed to sound more alarming that “Global Warming”. Seems to me it’s less. Pretty much everyone’s aware that there are significant climate disruptions all the time (in geologic terms), thus Disruption seems to be a benign term itself.
Seems like “Global Singeing” or “Global Man-Screwing-It-All-Up” or “Global Every-House-Underwater” would be more appropriate in generate the desired response.
But if the universe is expanding, we are slowly getting further from the sun and we will eventually all freeze. Maybe we can keep it going for a few more years with this global warming thing.
How soon? I’m 61, do I need to worry?
61…..Hmmm, I think you will be OK.
How about a climate bubble?
IF - there is a climate bubble does that mean only the top 1% of Americans will feel 95% of the heat?
If we have a climate bubble does that mean that anyone who actually believed a weather forecast and then got wet or sufferred frostbite will have the US Taxpayers pay all of their medical bills and dry cleaning? Or if you chose to live in a trailer in Kansas and it attracted a tornado will the government tell the banks and insurance companies to make you whole again? Of course the banks and insurere will ignore the gov …
“Or if you chose to live in a trailer in Kansas and it attracted a tornado…”
We could have lots fewer twisters if people living in Tornado Alley would simply avoid residing in trailers.
All we really need to combat “climate change” is a good engineering approach.
Factoid one: there was a period of climate cooling from the late 1940’s through the early 1960’s, presumably caused by extensive above ground nuclear testing. This stopped with the partial test ban treaty in 1963.
Factoid two: there are short periods of climate cooling associated with major volcanic eruptions. The most recent was after Mt. Pinatubo blew in 1991, but a larger and well-documented one was when Krakatoa blew in 1883.
The engineering solution is simple: use nuclear weapons to re-ignite dormant volcanos. Problem solved.
Fighting fire with fire. Do you trust them with matches?
I guess it depends upon who “them” is….
Factoid one: there was a period of climate cooling from the late 1940’s through the early 1960’s, presumably caused by extensive above ground nuclear testing. This stopped with the partial test ban treaty in 1963.
Never heard this. Link?
(And LOL at “nuke volcanoes” idea - sounds like a good one! However it’ll never fly with the REIC, since it probably would actually result in more land creation.)
It also has the benefit of being relatively cheap, as the nukes have been paid for.
“Instead of building newer and bigger weapons of mass destruction, we should think about getting more use out of the one’s we’ve got.”
- Jack Handey
Another Little Ice Age would help the flagging real estate market. There would be less and less exposed land. I think the climate is just about recovered from the last one, so maybe the timing is right for another significant Icelandic volcanic event. Not so good for those downwind.
Not sure the net, but actually ice ages do the opposite in many places - they expose land that otherwise would be unexposed. The Bering Land Bridge (probably how humans migrated to North America, during the last ice age) being a famous example.
Dennis,
I like your thinking.
Fact is the earth has been having it’s climate “disrupted” long before man had the ability to cause pollution in rivers, smog in the air or anything else.
I am so sick of everything being a disaster that we have to take care “right now” otherwise we’re gonna die. I hate to tell ya’ll, but we’re all in the process of dying anyway. The question is, What’s on the other side of our death???
Party on dudes and duddettes, thank God it’s Friday!
Lip
“I am so sick of everything being a disaster that we have to take care “right now” otherwise we’re gonna die.”
And what’s worse…the solution always seems to be a new tax.
And what’s worse…the solution always seems to be a new tax.
But only for those evil rich people who have jobs…
But only for those evil rich people who have jobs…
Hey now - some poor people have jobs too. They just go home every night with 30 lashes, since the rich people can’t stand the fact they have to pay them $7.25 an hour.
(Or at least they would, if OSHA wasn’t watching out for them.)
“But only for those evil rich people who have jobs…”
You’re confusing the wealthy elite with wage slaves such as yourself again…
“Fact is the earth has been having it’s climate “disrupted” long before man had the ability to cause pollution in rivers, smog in the air or anything else.” That’s really awful logic if you stop to think about it for more than a nanosecond.
People: don’t confuse your dislike of potential taxation or cap ‘n’ trade or whatever as a palliative to climate change (or whatever you want to call it) with the scientific reality of climate change itself. They are two separate issues.
And geoengineering is not the answer, IMO; I don’t care what Ken Caldiera spouts. We are geoengineering right now, and it’s not looking too good.
Great idea on the volcanoes though. Ever here of the “year without a summer”? Anyone remember the “Bad Idea” jeans SNL commercial?
Through the actions of a collection of half-wits with their heads in the sand and knee-jerk, anti-science talking points on their brains and their sand-flecked heads up their tailpipes, we slouch ever closer to Gomorrah.
MrBubble
PS: “What’s on the other side of our death???” Never forget that the answer could be: nothing at all. Seems hubris to think that there would be have to be something, but that, of course, is just an opinion. And everybody’s got one.
I suspect that this is not a dress rehearsal.
Whatever works to spend your tax money and enact central control over your life, right?!
Meanwhile, light bulb manufacturing jobs are being shipped overseas (China, specifically) due to these same enviro-whackjobs.
And the Tea Party elects candidates worried about masturbation.
Not to make light of this grave danger to our republic, but if you combine masturbation with exhibitionism you get politics.
Bullseye!
True on that, at least in your part of the country.
I don’t see many Tea Partiers worry about such trivial, non-matters nationwide. Thank goodness.
No, she’s in Delaware. My part of the country has the guy who wants to repeal the civil rights laws.
You mean racial preference/quota laws and one-man, 16-vote laws?
“one-man, 16-vote laws”?
What are those?
I am glad that NASA is going to be in charge of Muslim Relations!
You mean racial preference/quota laws and one-man, 16-vote laws?
No, Rand Paul just thinks that private establishments should have the right to discriminate based on race, creed, color, whatever.
No, Rand Paul just thinks that private establishments should have the right to discriminate based on race, creed, color, whatever.
Why shouldn’t they?
Individuals discriminate on all kinds of factors day in and day out. Should we not be able to?
Why are some characteristics okay to discriminate on, but others aren’t?
No, Rand Paul just thinks that private establishments should have the right to discriminate based on race, creed, color, whatever.
They want their country back.
Why shouldn’t they?
Well, we tried it, and it was a disaster. And South Africa tried it more recently, and it was again a disaster. If you’re incapable of imagining why, then I strongly suggest you read up on our and their experiences with it.
Your problem, drumminJ, is you’re all philosophy, no history. You think you’ve discovered a ‘new way’, and you don’t realize it’s an old dead-end.
Why are some characteristics okay to discriminate on, but others aren’t?
Why should it be OK to discriminate because of race?
No, Rand Paul just thinks that private establishments should have the right to discriminate based on race, creed, color, whatever.
I wish we could get to discriminating on skill and experience and ability levels. I know, just a pipe dream.
Well, we tried it, and it was a disaster.
How was discrimination by PRIVATE individuals and organizations a disaster?
I have a feeling you’re thinking about times and places where the government discriminated, not so much private orgs/individuals.
“They want their country back”
?
Oh… you mean what’s ‘left’ of it? I gotcha’. Right, any time someone that happens to be white has a desire to re-center the debate they’re afraid of their majority slipping away.
Read that article too. Debunked out of the gate. Thanks for sharing.
Why should it be OK to discriminate because of race?
I think we’re (once again) failing to see the distinction between something being OK vs. something being allowed by the government. I don’t see above where drumminj said it was OK - he just said private establishments should have the right to.
That’s something progressives just don’t seem to get about libertarians. They don’t think the government should allow things that are “not OK”. Problem is that “not OK” tends to be very objective.
Personally on this I disagree with drumminj - I think that in this case allowing an establishment, even if it’s private, to discriminate based on race does violate a person’s fundamental right of equal opportunity, and as such is counter to constitutional principles.
(And yes I know many of the constitution’s authors had slaves. It’s not that they didn’t believe what they were writing - it’s that back then though they basically just didn’t view blacks as people, and thus didn’t see them as subject to the same rights. They/we learned and know better now.)
Oh… you mean what’s ‘left’ of it? I gotcha’. Right, any time someone that happens to be white has a desire to re-center the debate they’re afraid of their majority slipping away. Read that article too. Debunked out of the gate. Thanks for sharing.
Please explain to me how the Tea Partiers are NOT afraid of their majority slipping away. Are they not trying to defend their “majority” by rallying their troops in the democratic process by affecting elections?
Please debunk.
You’re welcome.
Debunk?
I realize you’re in a different time zone/country/universe but uh… they are not ‘all’ WHITE by any stretch! I think I’ve had about enough creative license from you today.
Stay Ex-Pat Bro!
I don’t see a problem…people do this all the time…If Its a Private business, club not open to the general public…what is the big deal?
———————————–
No, Rand Paul just thinks that private establishments should have the right to discriminate based on race, creed, color, whatever.
they are not ‘all’ WHITE by any stretch! I think I’ve had about enough creative license from you today. Stay Ex-Pat Bro!
Who said they were “all white”. You’re the one who brought up “white”.
However the Tea Party is mostly white, older, easily led and kind of chunky.
“Bro?”
Packman, I think maybe you mixed up your words a bit?
They don’t think the government should allow things that are “not OK”. Problem is that “not OK” tends to be very objective.
I assume you mean libertarians don’t think the government should DISALLOW things simply because they’re “not OK”. And also that “not OK” is subjective, not objective?
Personally on this I disagree with drumminj - I think that in this case allowing an establishment, even if it’s private, to discriminate based on race does violate a person’s fundamental right of equal opportunity, and as such is counter to constitutional principles.
So what are the attributes on which discrimination is a violation of the right of equal opportunity? What about one’s freedom of association?
(BTW, thank you for disagreeing with me in a productive way rather than attacking me personally)
I think we’re (once again) failing to see the distinction between something being OK vs. something being allowed by the government. I don’t see above where drumminj said it was OK - he just said private establishments should have the right to.
Right..
However the Tea Party is mostly white, older, easily led and kind of chunky
“TrueAnger™” PeeParty tea toadlers:
“Sarah Palin said,…”
“Sarah Palin said,…”
“Sarah Palin said,…”
Has their “TrueGoal™” changed?:
Precedent Presidential Political spoils: “I’m the Decider!”
Of course, we all could dwell in the nuances of everything political that’s gonna cause America to implode in the “short-term”.
That’s something progressives just don’t seem to get about libertarians. They don’t think the government should allow things that are “not OK”. Problem is that “not OK” tends to be very objective.
Thanks for the belly-laugh, I get your point even though you garbled the making of it.
Correct me if I/m wrong, but weren’t you and many other of the libertarians around here opposed to the government allowing the so-called Ground Zero Mosque? I almost swear I remember you saying they shouldn’t permit the zoning change. Don’t the muslims have a constitutional right to have a mosque there, even if some think it’s “not OK”? (And I almost think I remember you being opposed to gay marriage, too, no? Don’t they have a right to get married even if you think it’s not OK? I think St. Ron Paul is against that, too.)
And you guys yammer about how we don’t need things like environmental and financial regulations, because the threat of people suing will keep the corporations on their best behavior (laughable in itself). But I seem to remember you, packman, and drumminj, early on in the oil spill, cheerleading about how this or that group of people shouldn’t be allowed to sue.
Quite frankly, you guys are hypocrites.
What we progressives do get about most libertarians is that they demand all their Constitutional rights (and then some), but aren’t so generous about giving them out to others. You guys think you see the world with a clear vision, but you’re blind to your own contradictions.
You’re a lot like religious fundamentalists, thinking you’re following the bible/constitution to a ‘T’, but reading and interpreting it so selectively that it’s almost laughable to those of us not wearing your ideological blinders.
Yes I meant subjective, not objective.
Re:
So what are the attributes on which discrimination is a violation of the right of equal opportunity? What about one’s freedom of association?
Seems like any attribute that in and of itself doesn’t affect the person’s ability to do whatever function they’re trying to do. Like for instance an engineering firm not wanting to hire black people. Skin color has no bearing on the ability of someone to be an engineer.
How was discrimination by PRIVATE individuals and organizations a disaster?
Well, for one thing, amongst many, black people couldn’t travel freely about the country, because in some places there was no where they could eat or sleep. So it made it rather hard for them to engage in the economy.
You really should bone up on history a little, drumminj. You may come to question some of your naive beliefs.
Well, for one thing, amongst many, black people couldn’t travel freely about the country, because in some places there was no where they could eat or sleep. So it made it rather hard for them to engage in the economy.
Which directly affected the first husband of one of my neighbors. He was black. And a track star.
In one town where he competed, no hotel would lodge him. That really stung him. It also motivated him to go out and cross the finish line first. And he did.
But I seem to remember you, packman, and drumminj, early on in the oil spill, cheerleading about how this or that group of people shouldn’t be allowed to sue.
Quite frankly, you guys are hypocrites.
rather than slander us here, perhaps you should use lavi’s search engine to try to back up your statements…
And maybe you should read up on what a strawman argument is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman
I’m a hypocrite because you say I held a position in the past that I never did. I bet you got an ‘A’ in debate class…
Seems like any attribute that in and of itself doesn’t affect the person’s ability to do whatever function they’re trying to do. Like for instance an engineering firm not wanting to hire black people.
Let me ask a question…
Should it be illegal for an individual to discriminate on this business? So anyone who chooses not to go into a restaurant because it’s owned by asians, or keep money in a bank because it’s owned by rich white guys is breaking the law?
If not, why should the law be different for individuals who are providing the service rather than those who are buying it?
You really should bone up on history a little, drumminj.
You assume I’m ignorant of history, rather than not knowing, a priori, what you consider “a disaster”. That’s a mistake on your part.
black people couldn’t travel freely about the country, because in some places there was no where they could eat or sleep.
That’s a short-term problem. That’s a huge opportunity for a business - owned by anyone of any race, creed, gender - to cater to that under-served market. I don’t consider that a “disaster”…it would right itself on its own in short order.
I think you all are missing the point between public and private…
Fox example Co_ops here have been notorious for never telling you why you cant buy the apartment you fell in love with.
Its a private company…they don’t have to tell… same with a lot of organizations If you went AWOL& burned the American Flag during ‘Nam should the VFW be forced to have you as a member?
——————-
black people couldn’t travel freely about the country, because in some places there was no where they could eat or sleep.
Drumminj- Do you deny you made such statements, or are you just challenging me to search them. We both know they’re there, yours especially, I remember. I’ll find them if you like, then what? I’ve lost the link for the search engine, I notice you didn’t provide it.
in response to my point that black people couldn’t move freely about the country
That’s a short-term problem. That’s a huge opportunity for a business - owned by anyone of any race, creed, gender - to cater to that under-served market.
Once again, your naivete and lack of historical knowledge is almost shocking. Do you think that the local PTB is going to let some out-of-town black dude open a hotel on main street?
If it’s such a great business opportunity why didn’t anybody seize on it during the the 100 years before we passed the (get ready for it) civil rights laws that Rand Paul opposes. Hmm?? Great business opportunity, just sitting there for 100 years. Strangely, no one took advantage of it. Why could that be?
Once again, your naivete and lack of historical knowledge is almost shocking.
Where have I shown any lack of historical knowledge? I’ve said nothing of how things were or were not. My historical knowledge isn’t relevant.
Do you think that the local PTB is going to let some out-of-town black dude open a hotel on main street?
That’s not an issue with a private enterprise’s ability to associate freely..that’s a problem with the government discriminating, no? That’s not what we’re talking about, and I’ve made no statement that the government should be able to. Simply private individuals. Are you saying that the “disaster” was due to the government’s behavior, then, rather than private entities?
And yes, I am very much disputing I made any statements for or against people suing BP. I assume that you’ll admit you were wrong when you search and can’t find any statements to back up your claim?
inksex dot com is the search site.
Look at the ethical trouble the members of the black caucus are having. Pushing the cCommunity Reinvestment Act, that’s what got us in this housing bubble!!!
Pushing the cCommunity Reinvestment Act, that’s what got us in this housing bubble!!!
Have you done the math? Looked at the percentage of houses that are underwater/lost and what they were sold at initially?
And what percentage could have possibly been influenced by the CRE?
I’d say by your blanket statement above that you have not.
Who shall I vote? The guy who said we have to bomb Pakistan or the gal who says I should not masturbate?
Really a tough choice……
Well… the govt. wants to control everything else. Why not the weather.
Well… the govt. wants to control everything else.
Maybe, however if the government wanted to control everything, then why have they not controlled the outflow of American jobs?
They did. It wasn’t easy.
What makes you think they haven’t?
What makes you think they haven’t?
Because since we’ve lost so many jobs, what is the reason if they have?
Because since we’ve lost so many jobs
Really?
It seems to me that the two lowest periods of unemployment in the past 40 years, 2000 and 2006, have occurred after all this outsourcing has happened.
Being that we lost all those jobs due to outsourcing, please explain this thing that makes no sense, to me at least.
I’m not trying to propose that there aren’t millions of jobs that have been lost to outsourcing. What I am proposing is that there simply isn’t a net loss.
Now - whether or not it’s appropriate for this shift is another matter. However the government hasn’t really delved into that so much; that’s very subjective and doesn’t have much impact on votes. What they care about is that bottom line U3 number, which very much does impact votes. Being that it stayed low all through the outsourcing period - they had zero interest in stopping the outsourcing.
In other words - they did control it - simply by allowing it freely (to certain places, via international trade agreements), whereas it wasn’t as freely allowed before.
It seems to me that the two lowest periods of unemployment in the past 40 years, 2000 and 2006, have occurred after all this outsourcing has happened.
Being that we lost all those jobs due to outsourcing, please explain this thing that makes no sense, to me at least.
I’m not trying to propose that there aren’t millions of jobs that have been lost to outsourcing. What I am proposing is that there simply isn’t a net loss.
Your missing a huge point. The quality of jobs and income produced from jobs. A Wal-mart or MerryMaid job is not all that.
Net jobs that pay poverty wages are not a substitute for the quality of jobs lost.
In other words - they did control it - simply by allowing it freely (to certain places, via international trade agreements), whereas it wasn’t as freely allowed before.
So the assumption is that they “did control it”.
If they did control it and allow the gutting of our well-paying jobs base to the detriment of the middle-class, then WHY did they do it?
It seems to me that the two lowest periods of unemployment in the past 40 years, 2000 and 2006, have occurred after all this outsourcing has happened.
Being that we lost all those jobs due to outsourcing, please explain this thing that makes no sense, to me at least.
Well, we had this thing called a ‘housing bubble’…
You can’t very well outsource overseas contracting to build houses, which is what happened during those years. I don’t think using that as an example works.
Most of whom are laid off now or working in another field.
We also had a bubble in cashier’s jobs and Wall Street sausage stuffers.
Your missing a huge point. The quality of jobs and income produced from jobs. A Wal-mart or MerryMaid job is not all that.
Net jobs that pay poverty wages are not a substitute for the quality of jobs lost.
Disagree completely. While some good jobs (speaking subjectively) have been outsourced - the vast majority were crappy blue-collar manufacturing jobs.
The WalMart and MerryMaid jobs had nothing to do with outsourcing - those jobs would have existed either way.
Regarding your theory that the outsourced jobs were replaced with lower-paying jobs - all the data (GDP, wage, etc. data) say otherwise.
I do agree, however, that the housing bubble in fact did contribute to outsourcing. It allowed people who did lose their manufacturing jobs to get new jobs in the new bubble - as realtors, construction workers, etc. However this all the more points out that the outsourcing was in part due to government control - vis a vis causing the housing bubble itself. If the bubble didn’t exist, prices on goods and services wouldn’t have gone up as much as they did, and people would have been more willing and able to live with with less raises and/or pay cuts in order to keep their manufacturing jobs here.
Disagree completely. While some good jobs (speaking subjectively) have been outsourced - the vast majority were crappy blue-collar manufacturing jobs.
No: Manufacturing jobs pay better in general than service/retail jobs. Blue collar jobs are a cornerstone of the lower middle class.
When manufacturing jobs began leaving the U.S., no-think economists gave their assurances that this was a good thing. Grimy jobs that required little education would be replaced with new high-tech service jobs requiring university degrees. The American work force would be elevated. The U.S. would do the innovating, design, engineering, financing and marketing, and poor countries such as China would manufacture the goods that Americans invented. High-tech services were touted as the new source of value-added that would keep the American economy preeminent in the world.
The assurances that economists gave made no sense. If it pays corporations to ship out high value-added manufacturing jobs, it pays them to ship out high value-added service jobs. And that is exactly what U.S. corporations have done.
Allbusiness dot com
Regarding your theory that the outsourced jobs were replaced with lower-paying jobs - all the data (GDP, wage, etc. data) say otherwise.
Wrong: Median wages have remained stagnant since about 1972 while costs of living have risen sharply while the richest 1/10 of 1% have thrived.
In the 21st century, the American people have been placed on a path that can only end in a substantial reduction in U.S. living standards for every American except the corporate elite, who earn tens of millions of dollars in bonuses by excluding Americans from the production of the goods and services that they consume. Allbusiness dot com
“Disagree completely. While some good jobs (speaking subjectively) have been outsourced - the vast majority were crappy blue-collar manufacturing jobs. “
Those crappy blue collar jobs paid better than service and retail jobs and still do… when you can find one.
And let’s not forget many white collars jobs got offshored as well.
Where ARE you getting your disinformation?
Regarding your theory that the outsourced jobs were replaced with lower-paying jobs - all the data (GDP, wage, etc. data) say otherwise. It seems to me that the two lowest periods of unemployment in the past 40 years, 2000 and 2006, have occurred after all this outsourcing has happened.
Isn’t it true that a lot of the jobs “created” in 2000 thru 2006 were cut from the same false cloth - debt?
Mortgage brokers, real-estate agents, construction workers (craftsmen like tile-setters, masons, architects, landscape designers) who owned their own businesses all made substantial incomes during the housing boom.
I can’t tell you how many gigantic houses I’ve seen with a couple of trucks out front with signs like “So-and-So’s Cabinetry/Concrete/Pergraniteel” painted on them.
Wrong: Median wages have remained stagnant since about 1972
Would love to see some data backing up that statement.
In other words - BS.
I don’t disagree that the discrepancy between low-wage and high-wage has grown. But there’s no way that median wages are the same now as they were in 1972, not even close.
Don’t forget we had a bubble in all manner of consumer goods fueled by the Heloc/credit card bubble. Lots of that stuff wasn’t produced overseas (boats & RV’s for example), and the intermediary functions, distribution, selling and delivery all created huge numbers of reasonably well paying jobs.
Alas, however, it is all unsustainable because it was not driven by real wage grtowth but by ever increasing borrowing.
My theory is that without a bubble the “normal” unemployment rate will be somewhere around 8%, best case. If that is not a recipe for social unrest, I don’t know what is.
But there’s no way that median wages are the same now as they were in 1972, not even close. In other words - BS.
Right Packman… It is BS what they did. It’s even worse because in 1972, we got benefits and pensions and heathcare and vacations and sick leave and downtime and personal time and bosses who cared about their workers and no drug tests and ……..
Between 1972 and 1993, the average hourly wage dropped from $20.06 to $16.82 in 2008 dollars. Since 1993, the average hourly wage has regained only a part of the ground lost, rising to $18.52. Adjusted for inflation, the average wage in 2008 was still lower than it was in 1979.
extremeinequality dot org
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics, Current Employment Statistics, Average Hourly Earnings in 1982 Dollars. Converted to 2008 dollars with CPI-U. Compiled by Tower Street Research.
And some icing:
The downturn that some have dubbed the “Great Recession” has trimmed the typical household’s income significantly, new Census data show, following years of stagnant wage growth that made the past decade the worst for American families in at least half a century.
The inflation-adjusted income of the median household—smack in the middle of the populace—fell 4.8% between 2000 and 2009, even worse than the 1970s, when median income rose 1.9% despite high unemployment and inflation. Between 2007 and 2009, incomes fell 4.2%. Wall Street Journal
But there’s no way that median wages are the same now as they were in 1972, not even close.
No way Jose?
Would love to see some data backing up that statement.
With like numbers?
http://extremeinequality.org/?page_id=8
(bottom of page)
USA Average hourly earnings:
1964 $17.54
1972 $20.06
1979 $18.76
1993 $16.82
2008 $18.52
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics, Current Employment Statistics, Average Hourly Earnings in 1982 Dollars. Converted to 2008 dollars with CPI-U.
Data compiled by
Chris Hartman, Tower Street Research
http://www.towerstreet.net
http://extremeinequality.org/?page_id=8
I don’t disagree that the discrepancy between low-wage and high-wage has grown. But there’s no way that median wages are the same now as they were in 1972, not even close.
Stagnate in terms of not keeping up with inflation.
From 1965 48K to present 54K. According to Toms’ Inflation Calculator, that figure would have to 332K to just stay even with inflation from 1965 to present. OUCH.
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?get_gallerynr=120
Do you think we make this stuff up?
Seriously?
Eco, that chart is already adjusted for inflation. That’s why the title is “Real Median Household Income…” $48K was a lot of money in 1965. No way was that the median in 1965 dollars.
See my response in Saturday’s thread…
Point:
1. The Tea Party rails against total government control. Fine.
Why now? a. The main reason: Because we are in an economic structural depression and people are not feeling too good right now. They are mad.
Why? b. Because we don’t have enough decent paying jobs.
Why? c. Our economy was gutted and outsourced to the benefit of the super-rich.
Therefore: If the Tea-Party is correct that the government controls everything including the gutting and outsourcing of our economy then:
WHY IS THIS NOT THE CENTRAL ISSUE ON THEIR AGENDA? Why are they not screaming for JOBS, and higher WAGES and protectionism? Is this issue not more important than any issue we are facing? They want the government “out of their way”. How bout the government IN THE WAY of jobs leaving?
Or why does the Tea-Party not rail against the Patriot Act? Why? Dang, they even dress up like Ben Franklin and stuff with funny tri-point patriot hats. Patriots? Do they know what those “Don’t tread on me” flags mean?”
Yea man, they are real freedom fighters fighting for the rich-mans tax breaks while people like them are being manipulated at the same time they are being thrown under the bus.
Are they stupid?
Are they stupid?
Is this a trick question?
Actually, they are a Repub front.
White House: Global Warming Out, ‘Global Climate Disruption’ In.
I prefer “Global Weirding”
LOL!
This thread leaves no doubt in my mind why this country is in trouble.
“Magnets, how do they work?”
- ICP
Beguiling, mystical, magnetic force was the spark that started Einstein on the path to a Nobel prize. Age 5 or 6, if I remember correctly.
Manufacturing in Philadelphia Area Shrank This Month
Manufacturing in the Philadelphia region unexpectedly contracted in September for a second month as orders and sales declined.
The Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia’s general economic index rose to minus 0.7 this month from minus 7.7 in August. Readings less than zero signal contraction in the area covering eastern Pennsylvania, southern New Jersey and Delaware. The median estimate of economists surveyed by Bloomberg News projected the gauge would turn positive.
Less inventory rebuilding and consumers constrained by unemployment hovering close to 10 percent may slow factories, which led the economy out of the worst recession in seven decades. At the same time, growing economies in Asia and Latin America may help keep U.S. assembly lines moving.
So what can the punk TTT and the weak team Barry do about it? Not one damn thing, but talk, and talk is the only thing “they” can do. It does make them and the masses think they have the power though.
U.S. Steps Up Criticism of China’s Practices
Timothy F. Geithner urged China to allow “significant, sustained appreciation” of its currency.
But the election year anger from lawmakers seemed to surpass even Mr. Geithner’s tougher posture. Lawmakers expressed impatience with the administration’s familiar reliance on persuasion and negotiation, saying such tactics had yielded little.
In Beijing, a spokeswoman for the Foreign Ministry said that China would not respond to pressure and that a revaluation of the currency, the renminbi, would do little to affect the United States trade deficit with China. But the renminbi strengthened by 0.27 percent to end trading at 6.72 per dollar Thursday as the government appeared to belatedly permit the greater currency flexibility it had promised in June.
TTT and crew could have made a stand in April, and they didn’t. They painted themselves into corner. So another six months passed and the hole just got deeper still.
You borrow sixteen Yuan, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Barry don’t you call me ’cause I can’t go
I owe my soul to the Chinamen’s store
Good one!
That’s the thing so many forget, the China-man is propping US up! Along with our friends in Japan. Gotta love all this “Globalization”
TTT and company have no bullets in their six shooter. Except for “tough” talk.
Geitner is full-fledge member of the Political Class. Need I say more?
Might be worth mentioning that, like his predecessor, he is not an economist.
Yes. And it might be worth repeating at this point that, again, Geitner is a member of the Political Class.
One need not know what you are doing to be a member of that class.
When in doubt, assume that the politician is lying. Maybe this is just posturing for the appraoching tarrif war, which I suspect would collapse the renminbi.
Jawboning and rhetoric is progress considering the official weak remnibi policy of the the previous administration.
I think you’ve hit upon a keen insight.
It’s coming….. it’s just a matter of time and can’t happen soon enough.
IIRC, Chinese made goods really burst onto the scene in my neck of the woods (major metro market) when president #41 was in office. Perhaps the fall of the Soviet Union was the catalyst, at least to some degree? That and of course the trade agreements preceeding NAFTA.
Anyway, our “prosperity” of ~1992~2005 was very much dependent on those cheap goods. Early on in the 90s I read quite a few articles that tried to expose the dependence of president #42’s illusion of perpetual prosperity on said cheap goods. Not many listened. Now the game is up, which way forward?
IMHO, no one in the political class has the answers because unwinding that paradigm is going to cause a lot of pain to a lot of powerful people, for example the REIC.
+1
The fall of the Soviet Union as the catalyst would seem 7-10 years premature, as the USSR didn’t dissolve until 1991.
If I remember correctly, the Chinese began to enter North American markets via Mexico, about the same time as maquiadoras (sp) were established along the U.S.-Mexico border. The Japanese may also have forced open some supply chains that the Chinese took advantage of.
The day the power brokers decided to put the fate of America in the hands of Global forces was the day that the script was written for the undoing of The American Way .Maybe if everyone played by the same rules it might of made sense ,but giving away a job and manufacturing base that was the envy of the World , this was pure insanity. The American people should stage a American job walk-out/strike in
rebellion.We didn’t elect these Politicians to commit treason did we?
What could be a greater duty of a elected official than to protect the Countrymen/Countrywomen from invasion and loss of opportunity for the pursuit of happiness . The World today is more insecure and unjust
because of the acts of these madmen .
Belated crocodile tears. I dont remember any sympathy for the plight of the “rust belt”. The left coast gleefully accepted massive imports and outsourcing as a boon to its economy, the right coast thrived on bogus finance and the sale of our mfg base. Fast forward 25 years and the boon has turned into a boondoggle. Now, hardened by decades of hollowing out, flylover country has little sympathy for the collapse of the rest of you. We’re almost used to it. Keep a good eye on the Ohio vote in 46 days. You’ll get a good taste of what you’re in for in 2012.
Keep a good eye on the Ohio vote in 46 days. You’ll get a good taste of what you’re in for in 2012.
More Nutballs?
Old saying…..”Talk is cheap.”
Sheesh wmbz
You’re up already, bright eyed and bushy tailed and I haven’t even milked the cows yet.
“Out of my way danged you lazy sleepy-headed rooster !”
Always get up around 5AM EST. No cows to milk here, but there are cats to feed. Long day ahead moving furniture, one of my favorite things to do.
I am babysitting a mellow black lab this for this weekend. His other friend(owner) is on the way to the DC today.
Dog couldn’t care less, as long as he has a person that loves him and his food dish still rattles, he is Happy.
He is sitting on my foot as I type.
Thanks, mikey, for showing up. The earlier posts were harshing my California mellow. Lots of anger this morning. My little black mutt is buried in a blanket next to me, with just her nose visible. If I peek inside, her big eyes stare at me. Since I’ve been sick, she doesn’t leave my side, and she doesn’t bug me to play with her. Dogs are smart.
Take care. Critters are good for you.
Never let the know-nothing circle jerks harsh your mellow. Think of them as clowns, jumping into a big ‘me too’ pile, hoping that will somehow make their wrongness right. Then it’s actually amusing to watch. Kind of like a dog park.
Beats me, but the cats have already protested about a late breakfast.
Simultaneous posting about cats…..
Hey!
Maybe the PPT actually consists of the world-wide conspiracy of cats to take over!
I suspect that happened a long while ago.
It did. Toxoplasma gondii.
OMG — now this is symbiosis, folks: The parasite that infects the rat as a primary host somehow draws it towards to scent of the secondary host predator to facilitate its ingestion.
And I’ve always wondered why my MIL was so outgoing!
Toxoplasmosis
T. gondii infections have the ability to change the behavior of rats and mice, making them drawn to, rather than fearful of, the scent of cats. This effect is advantageous to the parasite, which will be able to sexually reproduce if its host is eaten by a cat.[11] The infection is highly precise, as it does not affect a rat’s other fears such as the fear of open spaces or of unfamiliar smelling food.
Studies have also shown behavioral changes in humans, including slower reaction times and a sixfold increased risk of traffic accidents among infected males[12], as well as links to schizophrenia including hallucinations and reckless behavior[13]. Additionally, studies of students and conscript soldiers in the Czech Republic in the mid-1990s highlighted the fact that infected people showed different personality traits to uninfected people—and that differences were observed between the genders. Infected women were more likely to become more outgoing and showed signs of higher intelligence, while men became aggressive, jealous and suspicious.
conspiracy of cats to take over!
‘To’ take over? They already have. The cleaner of the litter box is obviously not the one in charge.
I have an all black kitty whose name is “Condoleezza”. She I’m sure is planning to be the mistress of the world pretty soon. She already has her attack plans for commie birds and muslim mice.
She already has her attack plans for..
Chihuahua’s on mopeds with a duct taped throttle?
That’s an awesome name for a cat!
Only 5% of Laid-Off Californians Have Found New Jobs
California this year has gained back just 5.4% of the jobs it lost during the recession. Increased hiring in the temporary workforce and in industries such as retail and tourism have barely made a dent in a state hit by far larger job cuts in print media and telecommunications, according to the UCLA Anderson Forecast’s third-quarter presentation this week.
About 70,000 new jobs have been created in the most populous U.S. state through the first six months of the year, compared to the 1.3 million during the two years leading up to the end of 2009, the Anderson report said. About a sixth of this year’s new jobs were in temporary staffing, with smaller gains in industries such as retail, education and logistics, said Jerry Nickelsburg, senior economist at the UCLA Anderson Forecast, in a presentation in Los Angeles on Sept. 15.
“It’s barely perceptible growth, and that’s still a problem,” said Nickelsburg. “We have a long way to go.”
How much money did California get as part of the stimulus? How much taxpayer money did it cost to get each person a job?
Any stats?
How much money did California get as part of the stimulus? How much taxpayer money did it cost to get each person a job?
Maybe about the same as the taxpayer money spent for each Iraqi civilian’s collateral-damage death. I reckon.
“I reckon”
Perfect analogy. Ah… the credit card w/ no limit. It just keeps on giving!
Ah… the credit card w/ no limit. It just keeps on giving!
As it should and shall…
Sir.., it’s been declined… ( do you have another? )
Yeah, Rio, no parallel. Thanks for playing.
Yeah, Rio, no parallel. Thanks for playing.
Wrong. It has a parallel that can be drawn when biased idealogs constantly put down one party for spending money on social programs when their touted party spends money on war, destruction and killing people. (and bailing out the rich)
Here’s Ron Paul drawing a parallel. Thanks in advance maybe for thinking.
Ron Paul chastises at GOP conference: Conservatives ‘like the empire’ rawstory dot com
Texas Rep. Ron Paul proved once again Saturday that his politics continue to divide the Republican Party.
He was met with both disapproval and applause during the Southern Republican Leadership Conference for describing conservatives as hypocritical when they call for a return to Constitutional values while supporting foreign wars.
“The conservatives and the liberals, they both like to spend,” Paul said, according to Think Progress. “Conservatives spend money on different things. They like embassies, and they like occupation. They like the empire. They like to be in 135 countries and 700 bases.
They like to be in 135 countries and 700 bases
It’s either us or,…China. heeheehehee
Hey, why can’t Australia/Sweden take over foreign “quiet man / big stick” global policing for awhile? America needs a rest.
From the Pew Center:
CA got between $500 and $750 per capita (between $19 and $28.5 billion), in the same range as UT, CO, OK, IA, MI, KY, TN, LA, MS, AL, WV, MD, DE, NY, RI, MA, NH, ME, HI on a per capita basis.
Those who got more than that category are: WA, ID, MT, WY, ND, SC, NM, SC, VT, AK…mainly small population states, which skews the numbers.
If you believe that there would have been NO additional job losses without the stimulus, then the cost of the 70k jobs was between about $270k and $407k apiece, and I have a wonderful piece of oceanfront property to sell you…
As usual, no good data on how many additional jobs would have been lost in the absence of any stimulus.
I’d be interested to see what the same numbers are for other states…anyone have similar jobs data for any other state? I’m happy to do the math.
My first thought was that the $$$ actually went to prop up failing govts and school districts - or was that not allowed?
Wrong - it only went to prop up the failing govt and school pensions.
vickthebrickv,
Right,
Bailing Out Local Gov’s=Good.
Bailing Out Wall Street=Bad.
“We have a long way to go.”
Sounds encouraging.
“California this year has gained back just 5.4% of the jobs it lost during the recession.”
That strikes me as a very optimistic way to spin this data—considering that each month on that order are still being lost as well.
How is that “gained back”???
Weren’t many of the CA job losses concentrated in FIRE? As in, Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate?
Methinks that economic sector’s shrinking, and will be for some time.
Construction was a big job loser. 2009 was the lowest housing construction number on record, and to emphasize just how low that number was, if it doubled for 2010, then 2010 would be the second lowest on record.
And in case people are wondering, 2004 and 2005 were the highest starts in the decade as a bit over 200,000 homes per year for each of those years–NOT the highest on record for CA (not even close). 2009 was 36k.
While in the 90’s (where there was dramatic underbuilding), no single year was more than about 165k, most were under 100k, in the 80’s, every year from 1984-1989 was more than 224k homes, each more than the peak 2 years in the 00’s (with one year in the 80’s reaching over 300k). In the 70’s, 7 of 10 years were well over 200k. In the 60’s, 5 of 10 years were over 200k. From ‘54-’59, 4 of 6 years were over 200k.
In case people want to see the data, it’s here (http://www.cbia.org/go/cbia/?LinkServID=FE5ED931-F09E-44C7-96836630388F21F7&showMeta=0).
The construction sector won’t be shrinking…it has already shrunk.
The construction sector won’t be shrinking…it has already shrunk.
There’s a lot more to finance, insurance, and real estate than the construction sector.
Cases in point: We’re seeing signs that the number of real estate agents is going down. Further decreases are anticipated. There also have been massive layoffs at major banks and financial companies. With more to come.
This week the rates offered by lenders on 15-year fixed-rate loans averaged 3.82%, Freddie Mac reported Thursday. That was down slightly from 3.83% last week and the lowest in the 19 years that the mortgage finance giant has tracked such loans.
The average rate on 30-year fixed-rate loans was 4.37%, up a bit from its record low of 4.32% two weeks ago, according to Freddie Mac’s weekly survey.
For many people, another reason to choose a 15-year term is that they’ve lost confidence in their other investments, such as stocks and bonds, said Stevenson Ranch mortgage banker Fred Arnold, who refinanced Richards’ loan.
“If their retirement income and savings fall short, they at least can count on their mortgage being paid off earlier,” he said.
Baby boomers nearing retirement, who may recall 16% mortgage rates when inflation peaked in the early 1980s, are especially drawn to the 15-year loans, said Brad Blackwell, national sales manager at Wells Fargo Home Mortgage.
“They’re thinking … ‘I like the fact that there’s a ‘3′ at the front of the interest rate,’ ” Blackwell said.
It’s a good sign that people are actually thinking about eventually paying off the mortgage.
Linkey
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-refinance-20100917,0,4880556.story
“It’s a good sign that people are actually thinking about eventually paying off the mortgage.”
Rather shocking if this holds for Coastal Cali buyers, in light of the exorbitant principle balances new buyers are still offering to (eventually) repay. Perhaps folks are looking to the late-1970s as a guide to where we are soon headed? Or is it that only rich people are buying now, just like before the bubble burst?
“If their retirement income and savings fall short, they at least can count on their mortgage being paid off earlier,” he said………..
I doubt most of you have been tracking the latest scam of the Obama redistribution programs, the 401k and IRA heist.
I had heard about this some months back, but, as usual, the “NEWS” media don’t report important stories. Their too busy covering what some pervert from Hollywood is doing.
Well, it seems that the Department of Labor began hearings a few days back to try and figure out how to provide “Lifetime Retirement Accounts”, much similar to Social Security by taking money out of our accounts and substituting some type of Government Bonds that would pay us back over many years.
The excuse for this is that we don’t know how to properly invest our money and that most people loose money in their accounts because the don’t properly manage them. So, the government needs to take care of this for us.
As I have written a number of times in the past, I suspect that the government will “means test” our Social Security contributions when it comes time for us to collect and if we have any personal retirement money, then we won’t need as much in Social Security.
That way, they can give retirements to illegal aliens who got here at age 40, got made legal at age 45, and contribute about 15 years, a minimum payment, and receive, at age 60, a FULL payment retirement, equivalent to what I have paid in over the past 45 years. Since i have “saved” money, then i don’t really need all my money.
That’s only fair, isn’t it. They will take my money and give it to their newest class of “voters” for government benefits.
I suggest you all look into this latest Obama robbery plan. IF you have retirement money, he wants it. They already stole the retirement plans in Venezuela, so there’s international “precidente”.
IF you have retirement money, he wants it.
Things may not play out like you fear, Diogenes, but I have the same fear you do, and feel there’s a big risk of 401ks and Roths being attacked - either the taxation rules changing, or something like you describe.
As such, I withdrew all contributions to my Roth this year. I haven’t yet decided to cash out the gains, or my rollover IRA. Probably should consider that, before the new cap gains taxes go into effect. (cue BiLA
drumminj,
Good point, and this may be an equal part that those opting for 15 Yr. mortgages no longer have faith their PUBLIC pension is as ’secure’ as they once imagined.
( I always love econ. commentary from MB’s, don’t you? )
Got a link for that? I googled and found this, which seems to be a different take from yours.
http://tinyurl.com/2dwl2ae
ok what I’m seeing is the admin trying to get the private companies to offer annuities…not quite the nose in the camel’s tent yet.
http://tinyurl.com/2blaqh7
Let’s parse the article you found and see what they are saying:
(And remember the PELOSI tactic, we need to pass the Bill so you can know what’s in the Bill, so don’t believe anything they say).
….. encourage use of annuity payouts in employer-sponsored retirement plans is unlikely to become a regulatory requirement, Phyllis Borzi, assistant secretary of labor for the Employee Benefits Security Administration, said Tuesday.
She said that requiring retirement plans to offer an annuity payout as an investment option was a “last resort, after every voluntary thing we could consider.” (I suspect we will see this Last Resort. The excuse will be that the Administrators refused to comply voluntarily.)
“We would like to work with the private sector to see how we can best encourage people to offer some form of lifetime income stream as an option,” Ms. Borzi said.
This is a meeting with TREASURY DEPARTMENT> They are talking about providing ANNUITIES as a last resort. Bullshit. The government needs to sell us BONDS to float their wasteful spending. What is a bond………well it’s a form of annuity. You give us this much now and we’ll pay you this much in the future. To simplify it, we’ll make annual payments………….Done.
The government gets our money, we get Tbills with an annuity payment.
It’s just like the financial “reform” package and the “healthcare” bills. We still haven’t figured out everything they do to us. None of it to the benefit of average Americans.
I don’t like Treasury folks holding meetings to figure out how best to “fix” America’s retirement plans. It smells really fishy.
Just because some “mainstream” propaganda rag hasn’t spelled it out for you in plain English doesn’t mean this is a “talking group” to help the government provide better services to the Retirement Plan administrators. Why do any plan administrators need input from the Treasury?? And what business is it of theirs??? Think about it real hard.
“I don’t like Treasury folks holding meetings to figure out how best to “fix” America’s retirement plans.”
I don’t either. What I hate is when they get the media chiming in with the “something needs to be done!” stories. Then the legislation comes along.
Been trying to pay attention to this danger since that gal testified in Congress about govt annuities 2 years ago..
Sounds like a bunch of nothing to me. You ‘parsed’ the article- and found nothing that supported your point about them seizing anyone’s retirement accounts, so you just made a bunch of crap up.
I’ve always heard that its actually only the past 10-15 years that actually really count towards your social security. Not sure that’s true, but it sure seems like it. So those immigrants who worked from 45 up until retirement are entitled to those benefits.
So what’s the bet on the DOW? Can Eddie 12,000 be right? With all the good news pouring out each day. Just this morning the radio news reports that the IT sector is going great guns and investors are enjoying the news.
We have more folks living in poverty than since the 60’s the WH says we are on the right track. Times are interesting indeed.
“Can Eddie 12,000 be right?”
The stock market has proven extremely volatile as of late, and upside volatility, perhaps coupled with ‘worse than expected’ dollar weakness could make Eddie look like a prophet.
The question is when will the Dow hit 12k, not if it will.
If November creates gridlock, then I think we could very well see 12k by year-end.
My money is on continued ranging between 9,500 and 11,000 though. The economy will continue to bumble along.
Anything is possible, but I’m still expecting lower by the end of the year. Between now and then…who knows?
Through my own less-is-more exodus, I live on less than half of the defined poverty level. Yet my standard of living is several multiples of that of my grandparents in their day. Actually, I think my standard of living is better than those I know who need a $100K churn just to keep their balance on the bleeding edge. The difference, in my mind, is debt service.
Yesterday I watched an ABC clip on “poverty” which ended with the apalled blond lady recommending that we all give to food banks.
Do you have any tips on how to live “cheap but good” (besides being debt free)?
Of course!
Wegman’s has screamin deals on NY Strip steak in family paks.
Lakewood Niagra is a pleasant and affordable alternative to Glenora Riesling.
Replacing the Carter AFBs with new Edelbrocks increased my gas mileage over 10%. Motoring at no-wake speed increases mileage over 3x.
With LED all aboard, I can anchor out for several days on a battery charge.
Pistacio nuts are cheaper online than at the store in town. So are dried porcini mushrooms.
I could go on……
I ride a bicycle to work and have one old car for trips out of town.
My house has 1,500 square feet with no garage. It is a brick rowhouse, so it doesn’t have to be painted.
We have an electronic timed theromostat, and solar panels. We just got a room air conditioner this year, due to the hottest summer in NYC history, but we only used it two days — ceiling fans instead.
We cook meals from scratch, except for restaurant meals on special occasions, and we eat little meat. (Were we in the suburbs, we might try a garden, but I’m not good at it so we’d likely lose money).
No cable, just regular over the air TV. We read a lot. I might get a Kindle. The internet is one of the few “middle class must haves” they have come up with that is actually worth it.
We used to vacation in a tent at state parks. We’ll see what is left of them given the collapse of public services.
The concept of the middle class being uplifted by wages to the
point that they would be a powerful force in Politics to the point where the Rich might not get their way all the time was a good thing until………………
WT, I love to garden, and have all the tools, but the choice to live on my boat makes much of a garden impractical. I’d say you are not likely to lose money gardening if you keep it as simple as your other activities. It is the easiest way to cut out taxes and toxins. My alternative to gardening is fishing.
And he uses matches, instead of a cigarette lighter, to light the fuses on the dynamite when he goes fishing…….
Like the joke about the game warden who wants to go fishing with the guy who always limits out on fish when no one else can catch any. The guy lights a stick of dynamite and throws it over the side of the boat. The game warden go crazy on him. He lights another stick of dynamite and hands it to the game warden and says, “Well, are you going to talk all day or fish?”
I’d say you are not likely to lose money gardening if you keep it as simple as your other activities.
I lost money this year, I’m sure. But since I rent a house, I built a raised box, and had to buy the lumber and the soil. However, if you amortize the cost over more than a year, I’m sure I’d come out ahead.
Of course it would help if I was more successful at growing things, too. The weather and the rabbits and aphids conspired against me this year.
Drummin, you are looking a gift horse in the mouth. Get out your .22 and snag those rabbits. Quite tasty.
My #1 tip is when you are renting look for an older landlord in a 2 family house, there is a good chance the house is paid for so renting it will be a lot cheaper over the years because he wont need to raise it every year.
#2 yes WT the high speed internet is my lifeline, without it I would have had to move in my moms basement. Its my main source of any income. so the $100 a month I pay verizon for unlimited calling and DSL on a landline…is a must have.
#3 cable? odd way of looking at it…It might have been a way to get a few jobs over the last 2-3 years, when interviewing for a job or dealing with people what do you really have to talk about? I could have discussed the latest Desperate Housewives show on one job interview…and maybe landed that job….
WHAT you don’t watch TV….are you some kind of weirdo?
—————————————————–
do you have any tips on how to live “cheap but good” (besides being debt free)?
Pick up a copy of “The Cheapskates Next Door”. I got the library copy (too cheap to pay for it). Some good tips, some very impractical tips and some very funy ancedotes.
Ahhh, a book title after my own heart. I just reserved The Cheapskate Next Door at the library.
We have more folks living in poverty than since the 60’s the WH says we are on the right track. Times are interesting indeed……….
I saw that story, too.
But what are the demographics that lead to this fact?
20 to 30 million illegals from down south have migrated here. Many have dropped off new “Americans” as anchor babies. How many new “Americans” are in this poverty story? How many are children??
I am sure the Pew Hispanic Center, or La Raza can come up with the numbers.
We have let millions of poor people cross our borders and set themselves up at our tables, our clinics and our schools. Most of the new students around many parts of Florida are “hispanic” and don’t speak English. Is this the reason for the numbers reported??
I realize they are trying to say the economy is the cause, but I think there is much more at work in the numbers. We are more like Mexico, now. So that’s good, right? Multiculturalism and all that crap. Welcome the new poverty.
On the newscast they said that 48 million were living below the poverty line. I think those figures are a under estimate at this point .
I think you are probably right. Let’s just use unemployment. There are about 15 million (officially) unemployed. That includes me. We know these are all adults. There more probably closer to 25 million, if we take the ones the government drops off the roles.
But given just that official numbers of each one is supporting just one other person, that is 30 million living in poverty at a minimum.
Remember, it’s based on family unit size and income. Add in the illegals with “American” children and you can easily get over 40 million. But, by comparison, poverty here in the USA is a higher living standard than most other countries have in an average income (on a world-wide basis).
I believe this year I am officially living below the poverty level as my income has been very low.
I also don’t know if that was “people” or “Americans”. If it’s people living in America, then the numbers are too low. Most illegals would qualify as living in poverty and they compose at least half that number.
Diogenes, I’m sorry to hear that you can’t find work. What kind of work do you do?
But given just that official numbers of each one is supporting just one other person, that is 30 million living in poverty at a minimum.
You’re making the assumption that every unemployed person (and their family) are living in poverty. I’m not sure that’s valid?
“But, by comparison, poverty here in the USA is a higher living standard than most other countries “
Uh… no. Poverty here is far worse than all the other 1st world nations.
You really have never been that poor or you would have never said such a thing.
“You’re making the assumption that every unemployed person (and their family) are living in poverty. I’m not sure that’s valid?”
Correct. It’s not.
In fact, most people living in poverty are the working poor.
In fact, most people living in poverty are the working poor.
That’s irrelevant to my comment, however certainly worth considering when evaluating Diogenes stats.
“That’s irrelevant to my comment, however certainly worth considering when evaluating Diogenes stats.”
Say what? It DIRECTLY addresses, and ANSWERS your comment.
What’s the old saying? “If you don’t like the answer, don’t ask the question?”
Say what? It DIRECTLY addresses, and ANSWERS your comment.
no, actually, it doesn’t.
My comment was questioning whether all those unemployed are living in poverty.
Your comment stated that there are many living in poverty who are working.
If you evaluate the two, you’ll realize my comment is restricted to those not working. Yours is restricted to those that are.
How are the two related again? They’re mutually exclusive, in fact.
You cannot compartmentalize the issue. That is a dissembling trick and disingenuous.
WHO the poor are IS the question you asked. And most of the poor are the working poor.
Those that aren’t working yet are not poor are irrelevant. Because obviously, there ARE people who are not working who are not poor and they were NOT counted.
You cannot compartmentalize the issue. That is a dissembling trick and disingenuous.
WHO the poor are IS the question you asked. And most of the poor are the working poor.
I’m not trying any trick. I was questioning the assumption he was making. Don’t try to tell me what question I asked - it’s clear as day, documented on this forum. I’ll even quote the text for you:
You’re making the assumption that every unemployed person (and their family) are living in poverty. I’m not sure that’s valid?
If you want to misinterpret my statement, go nuts. But don’t try to tell me what I did or didn’t say, or what I really meant. I guarantee you I know that far better than you do.
Seriously. Stop trying to start an argument where there isn’t one.
On the newscast they said that 48 million were living below the poverty line. I think those figures are a under estimate at this point .
They are. They consider poverty a single person making about 10.5 K per year but full time min. wage makes about 14K per year.
14K per year with no health insurance, pension or benefits.
However, 23 of 25 of the most expensive houses in Hawaii are owned by “finance” Wall Street types so it’s all good.
Who owns the other two?
“of the most expensive”
( Will wonders ever cease! ) Sheesh, what IS it today!?
Sheesh, what IS it today!?
Reality check Friday.
Yeah, while we’re checking in on ‘reality’ it was YOUR source, and YOUR quote. Think for a minute, would have expected that 23 of 25 the most expensive homes would belong to ‘poorest’ of Hawaiians?
Dude, really.
Yeah, while we’re checking in on ‘reality’ it was YOUR source, and YOUR quote. Think for a minute, would have expected that 23 of 25 the most expensive homes would belong to ‘poorest’ of Hawaiians?
“Dude Really”?
Many of your posts are hard to figure out due to your writing style but I think you are trying to point out that poor people don’t own expensive houses. OK fine . But you miss the point
I was trying to point out that the FIRE Sector Economy parasites “own” our country. I tried to post the article but it did not come up.
Go ogle :
What The 25 Most Expensive Homes” Reveal About the U.S. Economy
They actually own 19 of the 25.
Dude, really.
We have an abnormal, and sick wealth distribution in the USA.
The 25 Most Expensive Homes in Hawaii” that unintentionally revealed the true nature of the U.S. economy.
What might surprise anyone who still clings to the quaint belief that America’s great wealth is generated from actually producing goods or services of global value is who owns the vast majority of these villas: investment bankers and hedge fund managers.
In years past, the list would probably have been dominated by people who made fortunes in energy, technology or some innovative business with global reach.
Financial parasites, in contrast, skim fortunes from the real economy. Hedge funds are restricted to the top 2% or so of U.S. households, so the gains skimmed from manipulation and speculation act to further concentrate the already high concentrations of wealth in the U.S.
One of he two is a software entreprenuer, the other a wealthy Japanese worman who would not reveal the source of her wealth.
If only we could get them all into the loans that would get them into houses, the poor wouldn’t be poor no more.
Something like that has been tried in Arizona. And it doesn’t have a promising future. Data points from today’s fishwrap:
Arizona is now No. 2 in poverty
Jobless rate for Arizona is highest in 27 years
BTW, since the 1980s, our economy has been based on building houses for people who are going to come here and sell houses. And, sorry to say, that ain’t working anymore.
“building houses for people who are going to come here and sell houses”
LOL! Sure you don’t mean Oregon? ( Well said Slim )
Arizona is now No. 2 in poverty
No worries mate Slim, in ’bout 6 months AZ will be #1 for state taxpayer supplied non-citizen-tent-city-catch-’em-hold-’em-feed-’em populations.
Now moving on to AZ State revenue/income streams, looks like the care-free-highway state won’t be needin’ ANY federal “that’s-spending-not-stimulus” funds to pour into their economy, (’ceptin’ of course all those local taco/tamale/burrito eating Federal agents) brought in to lasso up even more tent-city residents.
How can anyone seriously complain? Look what the USofA got for $15 million! (OK, so they’re not mirror citizen images of Canadians, but at least we have x2 oceans for our other National borders!)
There’s that word again: Gold! Gold! Gold!
Mexican–American War:
In the U.S., the conflict is often referred to as the Mexican War and sometimes as the U.S.–Mexican War. In Mexico, terms for it include (primera) intervención estadounidense en México ((first) American intervention in Mexico), invasión estadounidense de México (American Invasion of Mexico), and guerra del 47 (The War of ‘47).
Territorial expansion of the United States to the Pacific coast was the goal of President James K. Polk, the leader of the Democratic Party. However, the war was highly controversial in the U.S., with the Whig Party and anti-slavery elements strongly opposed. The major consequence of the war was the Mexican Cession of the territories of California and New Mexico to the United States in exchange for $15 million. In addition, the United States forgave debt owed by the Mexican government to U.S. citizens. Mexico accepted the Rio Grande as its national border, and the loss of Texas. Meanwhile gold was discovered in California, which immediately became an international magnet for the California Gold Rush.
The Mexican/ American War was also the war that U.S. Grant cut his teeth on.
In the U.S., the conflict is often referred to as the Mexican War and sometimes as the U.S.–Mexican War.
Don’t parts of the South refer to it as “The Mexican War of Aggression”?
BTW, since the 1980s, our economy has been based on building houses for people who are going to come here and sell houses
I lived in Tucson from ‘83 to ‘05. I liked to say, “Carpenters and masons building houses for plumbers and electricians”
Are you assuming that “owning” a house with negative equity makes on less poor? Probably not.
Unless you figure the “free rent” you get by not paying the mortgage that the government guaranteed. Then we can do what government bureaucrats like to do………..impute an income from the unpaid rent.
If they were supposed to pay $800 a month and didn’t pay anything, and they could rent the house for $600 a month, then they have an imputed income of 600 x 12 or $7200 annually.
Using government analysis, they have also relieved themselves of an 800 a month debt, so by not paying, it’s like getting another $9600 annual in additional “income”.
Since we have increased their income by $17,000 annually, they are no longer poor and should qualify for a Fannie Mae loan on a new house, since their financial circumstances have now changed by not paying on their prior obligations. This will allow us to give them a 125% LTV on a new place, thereby increasing their annual income at least $25,000 on a 100,000 house…………..They are now “middle class”. Is this a great country or what? Bernie Madoff would be proud of us.
Way to pick up the ball and run with it, glad you’re not playing for the bad guys!
“If only we could get them all into the loans that would get them into houses, the poor wouldn’t be poor no more.”
Yet the wealthy are the new leaders in defaults.
We are more like Mexico, now. So that’s good, right?
MulticulturalismTAX CUTS FOR THE RICH and all that crap. Welcome the new poverty.If it was all tax cuts for the rich we wouldn’t have all this hooplah over extending the middle class tax cuts.
If it was all tax cuts for the rich…..
Is it always “all or nothing”?
So what’s the bet on the DOW? Can Eddie 12,000 be right? With all the good news pouring out each day.
See, that’s why ol’ Hwy is just plain whacked, ignoring Haskell & the DOW & many other “thangs”.
For instance, just yesterday I sold 10,000 coconuts @ $12.49 (previously acquired at $9.98) But then, it was my foolish risk in believing that America would still be in existence after spending 17 days bareboating in Aitutaki.
(Hwy anxiously glances Northward to the Forest fire burning directly 5 miles away, wondering what the day will bring…)
Another day to live & pray…
Official federal poverty definitions of annual income.
1 $10,830
2 14,570
3 18,310
4 22,050
5 25,790
6 29,530
7 33,270
8 37,010
In reality, if you are single and making less than 20k, you are living in poverty. The same x2 factor goes right on up the line.
So as usual, along with everything else the PTB and MSM tell us, the REAL poverty situation is a lot worse than is being presented.
so are retired folks living in poverty? If they have no income, but are living off savings?
Seems like a bogus metric to me.
If they are retired then they are probably either drawing from their savings, pension or living off some type of investments or various combinations.
The table is not about income, but about what is considered the min amount to be able to live on no matter how one acquired it. And it’s WAY off by a factor x2.
The table is not about income
Then why is the table header “Official federal poverty definitions of annual income. “
I’m confused?
The table is not about income, but about what is considered the min amount to be able to live on no matter how one acquired it.
But the government calls it “income.” As in “money you get from somewhere to pay your bills.” Whether born rich or not.
what is considered the min amount to be able to live on no matter how one acquired it.
That’s fair. So consider it in the context of the government’s statistics regarding the # of people living below the poverty line.
Do you think they look at tax returns and gross income? Or do you think they go through the effort of figuring out who’s retired and drawing on savings, and thus has money available to them to live off of?
I would imagine the former. Which is why I made the statement about those who are retired, living off savings, and why I question any statistic about the %/# of people living “in poverty”. Without that being well-defined, it really is pointless to talk about it, whether it needs to be fixed, and how to fix it.
wmbz,
“The Stock Market is a computer game.”
true.
Roidy
…and it’s rigged.
Rep. Frank backs higher Fannie, Freddie loan limits
Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:28pm EDT
By Corbett B. Daly
WASHINGTON, Sept 15 (Reuters) - Congress should extend increased loan limits on mortgages backed by Fannie Mae (FNMA.OB) and Freddie Mac (FMCC.OB) that are set to expire at year end, the powerful chairman of the House Financial Service Committee said on Wednesday.
“I hope we do do it before we adjourn” for the congressional recess ahead of the November 2 mid-term elections, Democratic Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts Democrat said at a hearing on the future of housing finance.
“If we allow this to expire at the end of the year, it will be impossible to finance homes in most parts of Los Angeles and certain other major cities … and we will see a double dip recession,” Representative Brad Sherman, a California Democrat, said at the hearing.
The higher limits, which vary by region, top out at $729,750 for single family homes in the most expensive parts of the country, except for Alaska and Hawaii, which have higher limits. Previously the cap was $417,000.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1520082220100915 - 63k
Barney Frank–the only person I have ever voted against. I get to do it again Nov 2. Maybe it will work this time.
Good luck.
Please God take that man out of office .
Voted against Barney Frank every time for 17 years. Obviously it never worked but I’ll cross my fingers. Gotta tell you, some of my MA FB friends were still extoling his “virtues” recently so I’ve steeled myself for the usual results.
“Maybe it will work this time.”
G*d, we can only hope. A more clueless enabler of the disaster is almost impossible to find.
As a fellow Mas-shole I feel your pain. But sorry, no, we’re stuck with Barney for the forseeable future.
How do folks from the Midwest feel about helping their California brethren buy $730,000+ luxury housing during the Great Recession? I have to wonder whether this is a really popular idea in the recession-weary Heartland.
My other question is whether there are any end-users to speak of who are currently qualified and interested in buying in that price range. Let’s agree to not pretend that a huge number of new California buyers are rich enough to afford a home priced in the $730,000+ price range, as many seemed eager to assume before the bubble popped. Can there be any more than a minuscule number of qualified and interested potential buyers for a maxuscule number of homes formerly priced at that level? If not, why not bump up the GSE limit to, say, $7,250,000? So long as people have to qualify by traditional standards, the conforming loan cap should have little macroeconomic effect.
“How do folks from the Midwest feel about helping their California brethren buy $730,000+ luxury housing during the Great Recession? I have to wonder whether this is a really popular idea in the recession-weary Heartland.”
Ask in December while they’re shoveling snow from the driveway.
I think I will ask my sister, proud owner of two homes in the Midwest, both attractively priced below $300,000, when I see her next month.
proud owner of two homes in the Midwest, both attractively priced below $300,000
Being that the Midwest goes From Grand Forks ND, down to Topeka KS, and South to Dalhart TX…I say at <$300,000 she might need a extra knife sharpener this xmas.
If she lives in the Midwest, her houses should be less than $200,000 each. PBear, living in Rancho Bernardo has contaminated your pricing ability.
“PBear, living in Rancho Bernardo has contaminated your pricing ability.”
Oh no — she bought a home on Lake St. Louis right at the peak of the bubble for nearly $300K — year-end 2006, in fact, right at the very point when subprime began its craptacular collapse. Her hubby also talked her into ignoring her big brother’s sage advice to get out of the contract (more accurately, he strong-armed her into going back in after she followed my advice to walk away from it).
“craptacular collapse”
Tankxs Mr. Bear
Did I mention BIL is a GM assembly line worker who fortuitously enjoys doing home renovation work as a hobby?
flyover country….we’re not supposed to care what they think.
You never did 30 years ago. Now, you get to live your nightmare while we watch from our lawn chairs.
“How do folks from the Midwest feel about helping their California brethren buy $730,000+ luxury housing during the Great Recession? I have to wonder whether this is a really popular idea in the recession-weary Heartland.”
Well, for that kind of money, I sure hope that the Fools are at least getting 40 acres and a mule with their Pig in a Poke…Ooops, 730k luxury shack.
Funny ,the day they raised the loan limits to over 700k on F&F was the day I knew they were going to bail out the Banks/Wall Street and transfer the junk to Freddie and Fannie and they would become the only lender in town .It became so clear to me at that moment what the plan was .I just think they thought it would only crash 25% instead of 50 or 60% as it turned out .
“It became so clear to me at that moment what the plan was .”
Sounds like a moment of clarity; too few experience it.
In 2006, I visit my sister who lived in the greater LA area. Lived in a house that on a good day would have sold for $150K, here in BFE.
Sat in her kitchen, and heard her swear on a stack of Bibles her place was worth $750K, and would be worth over a million bucks in five years, at which time she was going to sell it to put her kids thru college, and retire.
(”Smug” doesn’t begin to cover her attitude….let’s just say that she was never shy about letting us know how much smarter California residents were compared to us Neanderthals/knuckle-draggers in the rest of the country)
It was then that I decided that they must teach a completely different type of math in California.
BTW……she sold the LA place last year (after being a landlord for 3 years). Haven’t heard whether it sold for a million bucks or not.
Maybe you could look it up and let us know! (Many states have real estate transactions available on the web through the assessor’s office.)
Even beyond the expected price slump, my guess is that if she had three years of renters in there, it lost value rapidly, as the wear and tear piled up!
Zillow might show what it sold for.
LA County does make housing sales transactions public. Just need to know the address.
I have a story that is the reverse of that. My Mom and aunt came out from the New England coast to visit. They both started taking jealous swipes about how it must be nice to be “rich” and own a big house. I told them because I’d looked them both up prior to the conversation that their homes may be smaller but they were still worth more than mine and any time they wanted to drop everything, leave all their connections and friends to come out here the way we did, they could have a house like this too.
(Crickets….and the sulking and jealousy continued all week…..Ick.)
I heard a long time that Southern Californians tend to be more optimistic about their careers, the economy, and living conditions in their region than other people of their regions. It’s supposedly something about the great climate, the educational institutions and the diversified economy from being one of the top three U.S. metro areas.
It’s no surprise as I park my 2003 Toyota economy car near late model SUVs, BMWs, Lexus’s, Infiniti’s, and Audis in my parking garage or at work. These people I live with and work with tend to buy more than they can afford. Even renters.
Southern Californians are different. I’m like a stranger in a strange land. I speak the same accent but certainly don’t spend like them.
LOL, Bill. I remember when we moved to southern California. I was in the operating room and one of the nurses asked me, “what do you drive?” I didn’t understand the question, and after awhile said, “a car?” Then the nurses and anesthesiologist started talking about what model of BMW they owned. Pretty funny.
BTW, we’ve decided to buy that little condo for my son. Negotiations with the bank were fun. We lowballed $10,000 below asking, and the bank countered us at $2000 increments three times. We kept countering the same price. Finally the listing agent said they couldn’t do it. We said that was ok - we were willing to wait until prices fell further this winter. That same night the bank accepted our offer. There is a chance that we could lose money in the long run, if my son doesn’t want to stay in Sacramento. But it’s a sweet little place - the bank painted it and put in new carpet, and it has a nice washer/dryer. It also has a pool and workout room, so my other son and his girlfriend are already planning to spend time there.
Bill, in a land that has a history of killer earthquakes, wildfires and mudslides, you have to be an optimist, if for no other reason than to close both eyes and go to sleep at night.
(Bill works in CA all week — sleeps in AZ all weekends)
One of the things that convinced me that the RE situation in San Jose/Silicon Valley was FUBAR was the number of Ferarris parked in the carports of nondescript apartments complexes.
People could afford Ferarris, but they couldn’t afford a house.
I was in the operating room and one of the nurses asked me, “what do you drive?” I didn’t understand the question, and after awhile said, “a car?”
Good thing I wasn’t in that OR. If I replied with the fact that I don’t have a car and get around by bicycle, the crash cart would have been needed.
I can just picture it! Thanks for the image.
Were they all used Ferraris? They start around $150k, and they expect you to pay that off in 5 or 6 years, not 30. I’m pretty sure there’s no place in the world that housing is generally THAT expensive.
Maybe a car was a greater sign of wealth than a house for that particular group. Of course, at least there’s a glimmer of hope that a house can go up in value. Not so with a modern Ferrari.
How do you know they can’t afford those cars? Until or unless they are repo’d, they can.
Funny story.
I was working at this law firm and had to visit a client - a Silicon Valley startup. The inhouse counsel was complaining about the size of our bill when I said “gee, nobody at our firm drives a 550 Maranello” (I’d seen one in the parking lot). He didn’t even miss a beat, “Oh, that’s the CFO’s car.”
The price of Ferraris goes all over the map. Used 328’s can be had for low $20K prices.
“It’s no surprise as I park my 2003 Toyota economy car near late model SUVs, BMWs, Lexus’s, Infiniti’s, and Audis in my parking garage or at work. These people I live with and work with tend to buy more than they can afford.”
Any idea how many of these luxury vehicles are leased (aka “Puttin’ on the Ritz”)?
Can there be any more than a minuscule number of qualified and interested potential buyers for a maxuscule number of homes formerly priced at that level?’
if they can buy and flip for a profit with no money down every strawberry picker and coffee clerk would be in on it
but I guess that was yesterday
How do folks from the Midwest feel about helping their California brethren buy $730,000+ luxury housing during the Great Recession?
They don’t feel that bad actually. Their houses cost 1/3 as much, their schools are better, everything is cheaper and their income is only about 20% lower than Californians.
estimating source: US Census Bureau
Deflection. The question wasn’t about how Midwesterners feel in general - it was how they feel about this one specific thing.
Personally, I abhor it (though I’m not a Midwesterner).
Packman, despite our comments yesterday about the likely inevitability of Fannie/Freddie continuing, I would love for them to be out of the business completely.
As a Californian who could get one of those large loans, I would prefer that such loans are not available–the homes that I would be looking to buy would drop further in price, and since I’m not looking to price a home to a payment (I intend on being debt free far faster than 30 years), I prefer to pay a higher interest rate on a lower principal balance.
However, my gut is that any desires to eliminate the $730k limit is a hope and a prayer.
Deflection.
No, it was reflection.
The question wasn’t about how Midwesterners feel in general - it was how they feel about this one specific thing.
And this “one specific thing” might be too specifically unimportant for most Mid-Westerners to feel anything about.
How do Californian’s feel subsidizing vast swaths of the Mid-West Agriculture industry? I don’t hear too much whining about that.
Last I looked Californians and Kansans were both Americans.
Who is subsidizing who anyway?
The governor said California deserved the federal help because the state sends far more tax money to Washington than it receives in return. ”
Wall Street Journal
Rio,
No actually they whine about endlessly, you just don’t have to be exposed to it as an ex-pat. CA’s are never remiss to wield their economic clout.
In ways you could say that California was Too Big To Fail.
How do Californian’s feel subsidizing vast swaths of the Mid-West Agriculture industry? I don’t hear too much whining about that.
I used to “whine” about it all the time when I lived in California. But then again I didn’t work in California’s vast ag industry either.
How about we just call ALL subsidies bad, and be done with it?
No actually they whine about endlessly, you just don’t have to be exposed to it as an ex-pat. CA’s are never remiss to wield their economic clout.
I lived in California from 1986 until 2008. LA and the Bay Area. But granted, maybe my group of friends weren’t big whiners.
CA agriculture is heavily subsidised as well. In fact, CA gets a federal milk/cheese subsidy based on how far they are from Wisconsin.
What’s really funny is that my friends back in California think by my moving to Idaho that I now live “in the midwest”.
I guess they’ve never heard if the Rockies.
What’s really funny is that my friends back in California think by my moving to Idaho that I now live “in the midwest”.
Or “back east”.
A lot of my friends find it hard to believe there’s almost no Mexican food in Rio. Anywhere.
I must admit that when I was in Guatemala with the army I was surprised that nothing seemed “Mexican”. Ended up eating a lot of fruit and lobster :-).
IIRC they do eat tortillas in Guatemala.
I don’t know if they do in some of the poor areas, but didn’t see a lot of that in the Camino Real. When the locals fed us it was almost always chicken and rice with whatever you call that rice kool-aide stuff.
Stop the insanity!
The above remark was in response to the posts about Barney Frank’s blind knee jerk response to always prop up housing.
Exactly how the place I sold in 05 was resold in 2010
Short sales leave margin for fraud
By Kimberly Miller Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 4:39 p.m. Tuesday, Sept. 14, 2010
A national financial consulting firm has warned that the real estate market is increasingly vulnerable to a new kind of mortgage fraud based on manipulating short sales.
According to a study released last month by the Santa Ana, Calif.-based company CoreLogic, short sale scams are likely to increase nationally as a new federal foreclosure prevention program to speed such transactions gathers steam and home values remain low.
“As the government has pressured us to do short sales faster, we don’t have time to check them out,” said Anthony DiMarco, executive vice president for government affairs for the Florida Bankers Association. “The bad guys know how to defraud the system and will rush in to do it.”
•How a short sale scam may work
An agent is hired to short sell a home where the borrower owes $150,000 on the mortgage. A family offers $120,000 for the home. The agent contacts an investor, who makes a $100,000 offer. Only the lower offer is submitted and the bank accepts and sells to the investor. The investor immediately flips the home, selling to the family for $120,000.
My old place they owed $205,000 the investor payed $50,000 and sold it for $72,000 1 week later.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/money/real-estate/short-sales-leave-margin-for-fraud-915772.html - 84k
An agent is hired to short sell a home where the borrower owes $150,000 on the mortgage. A family offers $120,000 for the home. The agent contacts an investor, who makes a $100,000 offer. Only the lower offer is submitted and the bank accepts and sells to the investor. The investor immediately flips the home, selling to the family for $120,000.
That’s not much different from how the front-running works in high-frequency trading. I guess stuff like that’s only legal if you’re super-rich.
Not in any way to condone what takes place with HFT, but we’re talking milli-seconds and fractions of pennies. Thus far ( much to all our disappointment ) the issue hasn’t been addressed ‘yet’. My understanding is that it will shortly.
Is it that hard to imagine that the realtwhore took a ’split’ w/ the investor along with his finder’s fee/commission? And again, all of this on the taxpayer’s dime ( backstop, whichever you prefer )
In the end, there really is no comparison between the two activities.
Both use inside/advance price information to slip in the middle and steal a cut.
This fraud is fairly obvious to detect (if one is looking). The scam artist, in this case, is the real estate agent. You’d think that the other agents would want to see such agents de-licensed, if only to reduce the competition.
Anyone planning to make offers on houses may want to insist on making the listing agent get the seller’s signature acknowledging the offer was submitted. The standard contract in many states already has a line for such purpose, but from what I gather from the offers I’ve submitted, its hardly ever used unless the buyer insists upon it. It wouldn’t reduce the fraud 100%, but it would cut it down some.
This fraud is precisely what realtors are doing with PhoneyMae houses. Phoney establishes a minimum price and the scumbucket realtor gets the float between the minimum and transaction price.
Yeah…some crazy stuff going on with these short sale games.
Their RE agent wants 220k, the banksters want 215k from me on their counter-offer and my origional offer still stands at 195k…Take it or leave it Big Boyz…
Step right up and place your bets folks!
Will the heavily favored REIC professional gang blow mighty mikey off like a piece of cheap belly button lint or will the rank amateur be on his way to owning a Headache Homestead on Misty Morning Lane, USA for $54.5 sq ft by midnight Sept 24, 2010 ?
Come on HBB Pro’s …place your bets in this wacky crap shoot called RE gambling !!
OK, Mikey. Since you’re not worried about dust bunnies and you’ll have a moat, I put my money on you living in that oversized house. When I retire I’ll come to your HBB party in the Dells!
Way to go REhobbyist
I would be about an 1 hour from there via the freeway if I get it. If I can afford to funish this shack by the time these evil banksters are done with me, you guys will have a place to crash.
I have never stopped in the Dells when I to the MN-Canadian border heading home. Home is 500 miles away from here, I usually drive by night, grab gas, 2-3 Slim Jim’s and a Dr Pepper at Eau Claire and drive on. I’m just casually walk in the door and ask my Mom, “What’s for breakfast?” like I never left. That usually suprises her.
My old place they owed $205,000 the investor payed $50,000 and sold it for $72,000 1 week later.
I forgot to add it was sold to the same couple who bought it in 05. They were not married and the woman bought it the first time and the man bought it the second . They both still live there, with a much lower mortgage payment and much lower taxes.
F&F has a rule now that the house can’t be resold for 3 months after
purchase . They are trying to do away with double escrows or flipping while the RE opportunist are peddling the process of different forms of flipping or double escrows on late night TV.
Flipping or double escrowing is a form of middleman activity in that you take a piece of the pie in a short time without doing anything ,much like a day trader with stocks ..
I read that they had that rule and then changed that rule so flipping could occur due to sales being slow.
wait a minute..
I’m a “family” and offer the “seller” $150K.
Then, some stranger (investor) says to me “Congratulations. Offer accepted! I will sell you the house for $150K.
ummm.. i gotta ask myself why I’m not buying the house from the original seller.. no? What happened to the seller?
When the Real Estate Industrial Complex didn’t get punished and
restricted for their out right fraud during the Boom ,they came back with the same old shit ,but this time with the new sucker being F&F and the taxpayer.This is the moral hazard that is playing out as it always does when you don’t purge and punish .
If you’re just dealing with a Realtwhore…you may not even meet the family, would you?? The first place I bought I never saw the seller until closing..little old Polish guy, I just saw him after he signed and left the office.
So the Realtors could probably handle all of it without the buyer really knowing who did what.
thats true of course, but a short sale is one of those.. what do they call it.. I forget. It’s not a “normal sale”. It’s like a 3-way trade and it gets a lot of scrutiny.
Title company, lenders.. Nobody want’s to get ripped off in any mildly complex deal, where the opportunities to rip someone off are multiplied.
I would think someone is gonna notice a sudden change of ownership half way through a sale!
but there are other ways.. sneakier ways.. just depends on one’s tolerance for risking jail time.
A house in Gilbert, AZ was purchased from the bank for $400K. Then a month later put on the market for $525,000 and is currently under contract. It looks like the UHS that had the listing was able to get it from the bank for the 400K because public records show it in their name (husband and wife) and no mortgage. My wife was interested in the house until I told her what was up with it. Funny things going on with these houses these days.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6446-S-Honor-Ct-Gilbert-AZ-85298/58758885_zpid/
Boy that place sure has changed since I rode my motorcicle through that town back in 1993:
18 acres? / Gilbert?
$ Monthly payment: $2089.00
Bedrooms: 6
Bathrooms: 4.5
Sqft: 4,432
Lot size: 784,080 sq ft / 18.00 acres
lot to offer compared to what you’d get in say,…San Francisco!
‘Mohammed Day’ cartoonist has gone into hiding
By Associated Press
Friday, September 17, 2010 - Updated 10 hours ago
SEATTLE — A Seattle cartoonist who became the target of a death threat with a satirical piece called “Everybody Draw Mohammed Day” has gone into hiding on the advice of the FBI.
Seattle Weekly editor-in-chief Mark D. Fefer announced in Wednesday’s issue that Molly Norris’ comic would no longer appear in the paper.
Fefer wrote that the FBI advised Norris to move, change her name and wipe away her identity because of a religious edict issued this summer that threatened her life.
“She is, in effect, being put in a witness-protection program — except, as she notes, without the government picking up the tab,” Fefer wrote. He told The Associated Press on Thursday that he had nothing further to say because it’s a sensitive situation
The FBI also declined to comment Thursday. David Gomez, the FBI’s special agent in charge of counterterrorism in Seattle, told the New York Daily News in July that the agency was doing everything it could to protect individuals on a fatwa list issued by Yemeni-American cleric Anwar al-Awlaki.
Awlaki said in the June issue of English-language Muslim youth magazine “Inspire” that Norris is a “prime target” who should reside in “Hellfire.”
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/west/view/20100916seattle_cartoonist_goes_into_hiding
What about our Florida pastor?
I sense the quaint Western notion of unlimited “Freedom of Speech” is under severe test.
Anti-American Protests Turn Deadly in Afghanistan
Adam Trunell
Two were killed and several injured in anti-American protests in Afghanistan, where thousands turned out to demonstrate against a cancelled Islamic holy book burning by U.S. Pastor Terry Jones.
afghan_protests_size_big
The notion of Koran burning ignites more than just a media firestorm in Afghanistan. (Photo: Ahmad Masood/Reuters)
Jones scrapped his “Burn a Koran Day” event scheduled for the 9th anniversary of 9/11, but his flip-flop failed to stem a wave of backlash in the Muslim world.
An estimated 10,000 people flooded the streets of Kabul on Wednesday to shout down Afghan President Hamid Karzai’s government and the U.S. just two days before parlimentary elections, which are widely seen as a test for the struggling democracy.
The Taliban has threatened to disrupt voting and is expected to seize onto the anti-government sentiment surging across the country.
Demonstrating against something that didn’t happen… hmmm… I can’t think of a more productive use of one’s short time on this earth. And in terms of Afghanistan life expectancies, its VERY short.
It’s quite problematic for a country whose citizens have a long life expectancy to wage war on a battle-hardened enemy whose citizens face a short life-expectancy (i.e., nothing to lose).
If I knew how I would put out a fatwa on Pastor Jones’ mustache.
“Awlaki said in the June issue of English-language Muslim youth magazine “Inspire” that Norris is a “prime target” who should reside in “Hellfire.”
What kind of youth magazine is this anyway? Do they sponsor a Soap Box Derby where they blow the go carts up instead of racing them down a hill?
And we’re supposed to show “tolerance” for these kinds of views? When only one side practices “tolerance,” it’s called “surrender.”
Walk softly, but carry a big stick.
– Theodore Roosevelt –
“Shazam!-Islam-is-gonna-be-democracy-any-day-now!”
- Cheney-Shrub -
Walk softly, but carry a big stick of dynamite
-Anwar Al-Awlaki-
This newspaper and Comedy Central are Cowards.
I feel sorry for her. She spoke up in defense of free speech, and now she has lost her freedom completely. I hope that she can somehow keep her job.
Look on the bright side! It might give her the opportunity to get that extreme make-over every girl secretly wants!
Now I understand the source of your name, wit.
So who exactly is in control here?
Maybe she’s living with the guy who made the P-iss Christ?
Wait, nobody has threatened to kill him……
No, we right-wingnuts only wanted to pull Maplethorp’s government grants. He was never on anyone’s hit-list.
I’m thinking of writing him and asking him to photograph a Koran in a bucket of pig shit. I’m willing to let my tax dollars fund that “performace art”.
You stole my thought! We could ultimately save the government money* and test our Freedom of Speech rights in a one-shot!!
* Once the fatwah played out, Maplethorp would be unable to apply for any more gov’t grants.
“Maybe she’s living with the guy who made the P-iss Christ?
Wait, nobody has threatened to kill him……”
Yes. They did. And vandalized the exhibit twice.
In order to have progress , some real producing jobs have to be formed . And not producing houses . Working for the government , and health care are the 2 best paying professions , and the most secure . Something is not right about that equation , especially once they put those 2 together , as it is headed now .
With an aging Baby Boom population, health care is going to remain a lucrative growth industry for decades to come, any way it is governed (or not).
“With an aging Baby Boom population, health care is going to remain a lucrative growth industry for decades to come, any way it is governed (or not).”
Not if Medicare has to cut back payouts to remain solvent.
PB
If the health care is not employer based, there are a lot of unemployed or underemployed boomers, who are now paying for individual plans (or not). Eventually, many will not have any until Medicare, and may not even be able to afford the the co-pays at that time.
Health care is headed for a reality check, imho. We’re paying $16K/yr (2 adults), and we’re not that old and generally healthy. All hell is going to break lose. 78M boomers in the wild west of health care. That ought to be interesting.
I have “The Generational Storm” on my bookshelf, which addresses this issue and SS.
“loose”, not lose -mentalpause moment. Excuse me.
Does the Health Care Industry think it can exact 12 to 16k out of the average family under 65 while 48 million can’t pay because of poverty ,while 78 million Boomers are looking toward the cheaper Medicare?
Just add up the numbers and you will have to agree that the final blow will be the Employers dropping coverage because
of inability to afford the cost of coverage or greed .
In the Politicians quest to please the Monopolies it never appears that sustainability is considered .Oh I forgot ,thats why you are forced to pay under penalty in the near future .Prediction :Shitty health policies will be sold that won’t cover shit and the Industry will get a freebie.
What cheaper Medicare?
Health care is headed for a reality check, imho.
I think so too.
As mentioned earlier, I’ve been pretty much forced to become a health care bargain shopper. Couldn’t afford the high-priced doctors and dentists anymore.
I haven’t been to Mexico for dental care yet, but, since I need some fillings, I may well do that.
I know that there are health clinics in Tijuana that cater to San Diegans. I’ll bet there are some in Nogales. Pharmaceuticals are often cheaper there too.
Make of note about Planet Hospital in Calabasas, So Ca, a medical tourism firm.They might even do referrals for dental work. (website)
Everyone I know who’s used their services loves them.
health care is going to remain a lucrative growth industry for decades to come
Only if somebody pays for it.
“With an aging Baby Boom population, health care is going to remain a lucrative growth industry for decades to come, any way it is governed (or not).”
Only for the executives, most doctors and medical supply companies. For everyone else, not so much.
Nurses work far too many hours for the pay. 60-70hr a week. Contrary to anecdotal stories, most nurses don’t make anywhere near 100K. Many hospitals bring in H1B nurses and treat them like crap.
At home caregivers make just slightly more than min wage. Yeah, I want someone who’s poor taking care of grandma… at her house!
Support techs have extreme volatility in wages and job security.
A VERY LARGE & FAMOUS teaching hospital in my region just cut wages 15% across the board.
So can we drop this false assumption now?
Heheh..everyone looking for a sure thing.
Which is why the PTB get away with doing whatever they please.
Of course they don’t respect us. Why should they?
Well.. we could start manufacturing stuff again. Pick whatever products and flood the world with them, undercutting whatever countries currently produce the products, and destroy their manufacturing base, if not their economies.
Factories, raw materials, wages.. all business costs would be subsidized by our government so wages are high and the business makes money.
It won’t cost much.. billions perhaps.. won’t take too long.. a couple years maybe.
Then, once we control the market(s), raise prices to a profitable level and remove govt support.
But things aren’t bad enough where we would even consider doing that.. yet.
But things aren’t bad enough where we would even consider doing that.. yet.
Maybe we should do something. We’re getting our butts whipped badly.
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/u.s.-is-%22losing-badly%22-but-can-win-war-vs.-state-sponsored-capitalism-pat-choate-says-535399.html?tickers=^GPSC,^DJI,FXI,EWJ,TBT,EWT,EWY
U.S. Is “Losing Badly” But Can Win War vs. State-Sponsored Capitalism, Pat Choate Says
And according to Choate, market capitalism is “losing badly” to state-owned enterprises, most notably in China and Japan, but also Korea, Taiwan and parts of Europe.
“What we have seen in industry after industry where the U.S. comes up against these corporations — apparel, textiles, consumer electronics, steel, machine tools - a privately-owned firm cannot compete with what is a state-owned firm,” he says.
Call a TO! Most major trade agreements, including NAFTA and the WTO, have provisions in which member countries can say “we’re going to have a timeout from our obligations under the trade regime until we bring our balance of payments back,” says Choate, who argues the U.S. should do just that.
Keep China in Check: “What I advocate is to set a goal to balance our trade account,” he says. “We can do that with series of simple tariffs. And I would urge we take on [China's] manipulation of their currency and put a 40% or 50% tariff [on Chinese goods] and bring it down as the Chinese balance out their currency and don’t use it as a predatory tool.”
I think many Americans unfairly demonize globalism when it’s we who are to blame.
Globalism is a game. Other countries use every trick and strategy in the book to win the game. They even cheat. They use 100% of their abilities and cunning..
America plays the game like a n00b.. Plays half-heartedly.. Acts as though it doesn’t really want to win.. Pulls it’s punches.. has sympathy for it’s opponents.
Globalism:
America plays the game like a n00b.. Plays half-heartedly.. Acts as though it doesn’t really want to win.. Pulls it’s punches.. has sympathy for it’s opponents.
No, I think we DO play globalism to win, however, we play to win for the top 1/10 of 1% of the American population.
The oligarchs have a stranglehold on America and American’s minds.
Globalism is NOT a game. It has deadly serious consequences for those not of the top 1%.
It’s called “geopolitics” and to badly paraphrase and old saying, “Geopolitics is not a game to be played by someone like you.”
Life is a game.. to paraphrase another old saying.
“Factories, raw materials, wages.. all business costs would be subsidized by our government so wages are high and the business makes money.”
We already do. Except for the wages part.
WASHINGTON | Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:54pm EDT
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Most U.S. and foreign corporations doing business in the United States avoid paying any federal income taxes, despite trillions of dollars worth of sales, a government study released on Tuesday said.
The Government Accountability Office said 72 percent of all foreign corporations and about 57 percent of U.S. companies doing business in the United States paid no federal income taxes for at least one year between 1998 and 2005.
More than half of foreign companies and about 42 percent of U.S. companies paid no U.S. income taxes for two or more years in that period, the report said.
During that time corporate sales in the United States totaled $2.5 trillion, according to Democratic Sens. Carl Levin of Michigan and Byron Dorgan of North Dakota, who requested the GAO study.
The report did not name any companies. The GAO said corporations escaped paying federal income taxes for a variety of reasons including operating losses, tax credits and an ability to use transactions within the company to shift income to low tax countries.
ok.. you wanna hijack the thread and talk taxes.. fine.
Tax law is what it is.
If corporations can legally avoid paying taxes, they will, just as you or anyone else would.
I have a question about corporate taxes..
A corporation makes money and pays tax on whatever profits are taxable.
Shareholders are the company’s owners. That profit belongs to them, and they paid the tax.
When those after-tax corporate profits are actually distributed to the owners, are those dollars taxed again as personal income?
How about tax breaks for companies that send our job offshore?
How about companies that are given tax breaks AND infrastructure improvements to move their operations?
The large corps get more subsidies and break than anyone else on this planet, already. And they want still more.
TAX BREAKS ARE SUBSIDIES.
please.. Tax breaks? Taxes, minor cost of doing business in the first place, are reduced a little? Big freakin deal.
If some foreign society (or just another US State) appreciates jobs, wealth, growth, opportunity, and prosperity and all the other things business offers more than you do, and they make it more profitable for business to set up shop there, then business will go there. Like water flowing downhill.
Wave goodbye.
Now that you’re aware of this fact, you have no excuse for letting business and jobs slip away from you.
When will America’s leaders catch on to Fidel’s simple, if belated, insight?
Fidel: ‘Cuban Model Doesn’t Even Work For Us Anymore’
Sep 8 2010, 12:00 PM ET
There were many odd things about my recent Havana stopover (apart from the dolphin show, which I’ll get to shortly), but one of the most unusual was Fidel Castro’s level of self-reflection. I only have limited experience with Communist autocrats (I have more experience with non-Communist autocrats) but it seemed truly striking that Castro was willing to admit that he misplayed his hand at a crucial moment in the Cuban Missile Crisis (you can read about what he said toward the end of my previous post - but he said, in so many words, that he regrets asking Khruschev to nuke the U.S.).
…
“The Cuban model doesn’t even work for us anymore,” he said.
This struck me as the mother of all Emily Litella moments. Did the leader of the Revolution just say, in essence, “Never mind”?
I asked Julia to interpret this stunning statement for me. She said, “He wasn’t rejecting the ideas of the Revolution. I took it to be an acknowledgment that under ‘the Cuban model’ the state has much too big a role in the economic life of the country.”
…
When will America’s leaders catch on to Fidel’s simple, if belated, insight?
What American leaders are in favor of communism? Or is that some lame McCarthyism?
Did you even bother to read and think for ten seconds about my post before making your orthogonal response?
It’s OK — it is early.
I read it twice. Looked like knee-jerk McCarthyism to me, both times.
You’re going to have to explain that one to me too. Are you saying Castro is being McCarthyist?
(scratches head)
Maybe I missed something. But if Fidel said, “The Cuban model doesn’t even work for us anymore,” and Julia was correct in her assertion that, “He wasn’t rejecting the ideas of the Revolution. I took it to be an acknowledgment that under ‘the Cuban model’ the state has much too big a role in the economic life of the country,” then isn’t Fidel admitting that he has learned the hard way that too much top-down, command-and-control governance spoils the economy, a lesson which some times seems lost on American leaders?
Castro says communism doesn’t work. You ask when America’s leaders will recognize this insight. If you’re comparing our degree of gov involvement in the economy to that of communism, that’s an absurd, McCarthyesque comparison.
Got it, and I know — I was exaggerating. But I get frustrated with governmental intervention in local housing markets in order to save East Coast banks’ from their bad gambling debt. What is the rationale for government intervention in private goods markets? I must have slept through economics class the day they covered that topic.
It’s all about the Political Class once again, Professor.
The rationale is that you’re a peon who knows little. A peon that needs to be managed and fleeced. Get it now?
“What is the rationale for government intervention in private goods markets?”
The girl gives a passionate kiss on boy A’s lips
The same girl sticks her tongue passionately in boy B’s ear
Who does the girl really care about?
“Who does the girl really care about?”
Been reading Nietzsche again, Hwy?
“Ultimately one loves one’s desire, not the desired object.”
– Friedrich Nietzsche –
Beyond Good and Evil
But then what did the bachelor Nietzsche understand about the positive-sum game of symbiosis?
Silly Bear, it was a trick question…
answer: herself
Valentine:
“That man that hath a tongue, I say is no man,
If with his tongue he cannot win a woman.”
The Two Gentlemen of Verona (III, i, 104-105)
Whilst Obama claims not to be a communist, at least one of his his immediate forebears was an avowed communist. Stated so, in fact.
The guy running against O’Donnell in Delaware (Cooms?) stated he was a Marxist. Said so years ago. Don’t know if he still has such leanings. His policy statements would certainly lead one to believe that.
Whether released to the market in a flood or a trickle, shadow inventory will weigh on U.S. home prices for years to come.
Going down
Relief is years away: report
By PAUL THARP
Last Updated: 4:24 AM, September 16, 2010
Posted: 2:06 AM, September 16, 2010
The drop in US home prices — which are already down 28 percent since 2006 — could languish until 2013 as a massive 12 million homes in a shadow inventory still have to clear through the system.
Shadow inventory, which are homes in mortgage default or those already foreclosed upon but not yet on the market, will keep values from recovering as they drip back onto the market, experts said.
“Whether it’s the sidelines, shadow or current inventory, the issue is there’s more supply than demand,” Oliver Chang, a US housing strategist with Morgan Stanley told Bloomberg News, which first reported on the data supplied by his firm as well as Moody’s Analytics, Fannie Mae and Barclays.
One in five home sellers in New York City had to cut their price in September to get a deal, one survey found.
The size and effect of the shadow inventory was one of several bleak housing reports released yesterday, with each pointing to continued weakness in the real estate sector.
The value of the nation’s homes could drop by as much as 15 percent in the next two years on the way to a new bottom, and remain stuck there at least three years, according to a report by Morgan Stanley.
…
Housing will become more affordable, than stay affordable.
Next, on to the bad news.
I’ve been a Monogamist several times.
I’ve been a polygamist once (prenuptially speaking).
Linky linky Schmendrik.;)
“Whilst Obama claims not to be a communist, at least one of his his immediate forebears was an avowed communist. Stated so, in fact.”
Whiskey Bottles Quotes: From Joe “CoSpgs4″ McCarthy’s House on Un American Slur and Innuenedo Trials.
Sober UP !!
This article sort of explains it..
It seems that since America has no Marxist party, after his conversion in Kenya he came back and joined the Democrat Party.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36726.html
Whilst Obama claims not to be a communist, at least one of his his immediate forebears was an avowed communist.
Preach it, and look what UberLiberal “Forbes” tries to propagandize.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/26/obama-bush-paulson-ayn-rand-opinions-columnists-tea-parties.html
Obama Loves The Rich
The president is no socialist. If anything, he’s an oligarch.
The tax protests are over and folks aren’t picketing the homes of AIG traders anymore. Barack Obama’s approval ratings remain high at 60.8% as measured by the Real Clear Politics average. Still, all the major polls tracked by Real Clear have majorities saying that the country is headed in the wrong direction, and Obama’s opposition is hardening around the question of the president’s socialist tendencies.
Are America’s most productive citizens being asked to care for the dispossessed? Are the winners forced to part with the spoils so that the society’s losers can coast through the recession? Is work being punished, are achievements scorned? Do we all have to revert into precocious high-schoolers and go back to underlining and dog-earing Ayn Rand novels and annoying our ex-hippie mothers?
No, no we don’t. Obama’s no socialist. An observer from Mars would think the man’s a downright oligarch. While the “angry white men” movement assembles into tea parties, the real anger should be felt by those on the left who have so far watched the president continue to follow an economic rescue plan that was outlined by George Bush and Hank Paulson. The only thing that Obama has socialized are the losses incurred by Wall Street’s major banks like Citigroup ( C - news - people ) and Bank of America ( BAC - news - people ) and, through the government’s continued willingness to write checks to AIG ( AIG - news - people ), foreign financial firms like Société Générale and Deutsche Bank ( DB - news - people ).
gnore Obama’s critics who throw the “socialism” word around. Obama is a thoroughly middle of the road Democrat with an exceedingly mainstream view of business and economics. He believes in using economic policy to stimulate functioning markets.
If Obama’s recovery plan works, the winners will be the executives at the richest and most powerful financial institutions in the world. There’s so much ire about the idea that one taxpayer might be asked to subsidize the failing mortgage of another but, in truth (and in the best case scenario) all taxpayers should look back at Obama’s actions in a few years and realize that what they really subsidized were the profits and ambitions of a radically wealthy elite. New Orleans hasn’t been rebuilt, but the government is hard at work on Greenwich, Conn., and Abu Dhabi.
Obamalil’ Opie is a thoroughly middle of the road Democrat with an exceedingly mainstream view of business and economics. He believes in using economic policy to stimulate functioning markets.Not to mention Ad nauseam: “(Non-Hawaiian) Kenyan-Muslim”
Narcissist, pure and simple.
Per Wiki, “Narcissism is the personality trait of egotism, vanity, conceit, or simple selfishness. Applied to a social group, it is sometimes used to denote elitism or an indifference to the plight of others.
The name “narcissism” was coined by Freud after Narcissus who in Greek myth was a pathologically self-absorbed young man who fell in love with his own reflection in a pool. Freud believed that some narcissism is an essential part of all of us from birth.[1] Andrew P. Morrison claims that, in adults, a reasonable amount of healthy narcissism allows the individual’s perception of his needs to be balanced in relation to others.[2]”
So the question I have, when will the Wiki definition include a photo of BHO???
Seems like “narcissist” is amateur shrink diagnosis of the hour. So many are deemed “narcissistic” that it has lost most its meaning. About like in the 1960s and 70s when everyone was “insecure.”
I found this link.
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/71754
Apparently when Coons was in college he was a Young Republican and worked for Reagan and a Delaware Republican senator. By the time he graduated he had registered Democrat. He jokingly referred to himself as a “bearded Marxist” in an article he wrote at age 21, but he sounds like a pretty mainstream Democrat to me.
Sounds like the Republican machine is trying to counter the dirt about O’Donnell.
What American leaders are in favor of communism?
The ones that promote the confiscation and redistribution of wealth?
What American leaders are in favor of communism?
The ones that promote the confiscation and redistribution of wealth?
By your implication, the Business Roundtable, Chamber of Commerce, super-rich and CEO’s are Communist because they have all promoted the confiscation and redistribution of wealth from the poor and middle-class and redistributed it to the wealthiest of the wealthy.
The wealth redistribution figures don’t lie but rich liars and their acolytes figure.
rio..
How does a business “confiscate” your wealth without your permission and cooperation? Don’t you have to buy something before they can get their paws on your money?
And don’t tell me they use govt-commies to confiscate it for them, or we’re back to square one.
How does a business “confiscate” your wealth without your permission and cooperation? Don’t you have to buy something before they can get their paws on your money?
No. I’m talking about regressive taxes, stagnating wages, outsourcing jobs, illegal immigration and elimination of benefits, pensions and health-care.
Not just buying stuff.
rio…
Government creates the atmosphere. Business responds.
Just as water seeks the lowest level, business seeks the lowest operating costs.
If government does not create and/or enforce illegal immigration laws, and does not prosecute businesses that hire them, the practice will continue.
If we the people enjoy low priced services and goods, and do not petition our government to enforce immigration laws, then we are to “blame”.
Business is just a money making machine. We (and our government) are at the controls, guiding it’s speed and direction.
rio…
Government creates the atmosphere. Business responds.
Yes in the past. But not today.
Today:
Government responds only to Business to create the atmosphere.
government responds only to business? You expect anyone to swallow THAT??
lordy lord..
government responds only to business? You expect anyone to swallow THAT??
Maybe not all of it. But I would expect most of it.
Thats right Joey…. those that unlocked the front door of the US Treasury and looked the other way while the corporate elite absconded with our money.
Who were they again?
I think it was these guys:
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Harry S Truman
Dwight D. Eisenhower
John F. Kennedy
Lyndon B. Johnson
Richard Nixon
Gerald Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
George Bush
Bill Clinton
George W. Bush
Barack Obama
You need to pare down that list to the supply side thugs.
Hint: Post 1980
I have to say - I have never seen anyone with such blinders on as you exeter.
Mutual sentiment my friend.
I think that this is just a move to unload their deadwood on the USA.
So Wall St. didn’t create the credit liquidity crisis and thus the current non-depression? Knowingly sell bad securities? Deliberately use insider information every day? Rig their trading programs? Lie about their Level 3 assets? Offshore millions of our jobs?
And let’s not forget the highest poverty rate in 51 years.
Shall I continue?
ecofeco ….I agree with everything your saying and I think your one of the smartest guys in the barn . There is a concerted effort on the part of the culprits to this disaster to distract the people from the real causes and real solutions to this nightmare. When they can get the middle class to scream to not tax the rich you know some pretty serious brainwashing is going on .
I have talked to unemployed people with children who are a few months away from being homeless and they have used up all savings and buffers .
Does it make sense that we have this high of a poverty rate and
unemployment rate so the Fat Cats can survive and flourish ?The Churches won’t be able to respond to this many cases either if anybody thinks that charities can take care of this many long term unemployed .
Watching the drama play out isn’t any fun ,besides I don’t like popcorn anymore .
Ahhh…the good old days:
Britain’s child slaves: They started at 4am, lived off acorns and had nails put through their ears for shoddy work. Yet, says a new book, their misery helped forge Britain
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1312764/Britains-child-slaves-New-book-says-misery-helped-forge-Britain.html
Nails in ears? Has Foxconn heard of this?
The holiday shopping orgy is only two months away and darn it if those new iGadgets don’t make it to the shelves on time!
Still bumpin’ along the bottom after all these years since the housing market first bottomed out? I have only one thing to say to “high end” Bay Area real estate investors trying to exploit those great deals: Try not to catch yourself a falling knife.
Housing cool down
By Eve Mitchell
Contra Costa Times
Posted: 09/16/2010 03:29:33 PM PDT
Updated: 09/16/2010 05:09:04 PM PDT
Bay Area home sales took a hit for the second straight month as demand from potential buyers cooled in response to concerns about job security and uncertainties about where the housing market is going.
“I’ve noticed a slowdown in the market in the last six weeks across the entire Bay Area. Although interest rates are at an all-time low, buyers are hesitant to pull the trigger, ” said Linnette Edwards, an associate broker in the East Bay with Prudential California Realty.
Lenders also are tightening loan standards, both for conventional and Federal Housing Administration loans, she noted.
The market for higher-end homes is slowing and prices are coming down, she said.
“I would anticipate that the high-end market is coming down in value. To what extent is unknown. “… As an investor, you can get some great values,” Edwards said.
Last month’s sales volume was the lowest for any August since 1992. DataQuick began tracking housing in 1988. Still, August sales avoided the cliff drop that occurred in July, when sales plummeted 19.1 percent from June and 22.8 percent from July 2009. That decline largely was response to the expiration of federal income-tax credits for first-time buyers and repeat buyers, the report said.
About 6,700 new and existing single-family houses and condominiums closed escrow in the nine-county Bay Area in August. That was a 1.1 percent drop from July and a 10.9 percent decline from August 2009, San Diego-based MDA DataQuick reported Thursday.
The Bay Area median sales price in August was $385,000, or 4.2 percent lower than July but up 6.9 percent from a year ago, the report said. While prices have risen on a year-to-year basis for 11 straight months, they no longer are following a pattern of double-digit increases that began in November and ended in June.
The median price for this year peaked at $410,000 in May and June. That is still far below the $665,000 peak for home prices recorded in June and July 2007.
In August, 37 percent of Bay Area home sales were priced at $500,000 and above, a slight increase from 35.9 percent in August 2009. Over the past 10 years, however, a monthly average of 45.2 percent of homes sold for $500,000 or more.
In Alameda County, 1,351 homes changed hands, a 12.2 percent drop from a year ago, while the median price of $360,000 was up 5.9 percent. In Contra Costa County, 1,397 homes closed escrow, down 12 percent from a year ago, while the median price of $278,000 was up 6.3 percent.
The number of homes sold in August is down from a year ago in part because there are fewer, lower-priced foreclosures on the market, said Robin Dickson, executive vice president of J. Rockcliff Realtors, and manager of the company’s Pleasanton and Livermore offices.
Bay Area foreclosure resales accounted for 26.7 percent of existing homes sales in August, down from 34.3 percent of a year ago.
“Units are down, but dollar volume is substantially up. Prices have actually stabilized somewhat. We have (fewer) units because we don’t have the foreclosures coming to the market,” Dickson said. “We are skipping along the bottom. ”
…
The banksters really have Main Street America by the balls now. It must be nice for some players in the economy (banks and those who own them) to be able to get zero-percent interest loans from the Fed, providing virtually unlimited power over others who don’t qualify for ZIRP lending.
More employee-assistance calls seek housing aid
A “bank foreclosure sale” sign is posted in front of a townhouse in August 2010 in Los Angeles. Banks repossessed homes at a near record pace, driving up foreclosures.
By Kevork Djansezian, Getty Images
By Sharon Jayson, USA TODAY
Housing problems have for the first time replaced child care as the No. 1 subject of employee-assistance calls, a new report says.
Of more than 25,000 calls from January to June 2010, 41% were related to moving. Of those, 77% sought help finding an apartment, and two-thirds of those seeking apartments said it was “foreclosure related,” according to ComPsych, which has tracked employee-assistance calls since 1984. The company, which provides employee-assistance programs to 13,000 organizations with 33 million workers worldwide, will release the report Thursday.
Child care, which has always been at the top of the list, declined from 43% of calls in the first half of 2008 to 32% in that period this year. The moving category increased by 14% in six months.
…
Perhaps I’m hopelessly old school, but sharing any bit of one’s personal financial business with any branch of one’s employer sounds like a bad move. Yeah, yeah - there’s supposed to be some confidentiality with those EAP thingies - ok, whatever.
Still if makes me cringe because it further blurs the lines between lender, borrower, and employer. May we see the day when the “in” thing to do is to have one’s bank (lender) fully insert themseleves into the employee-employer relationship under the guise of “consumer protection”? Maybe banks will act as trustee for the employee’s wages even? Doling out enough little tidbits to allow the employee to buy the latest iGadget?
The “company store” theme has been circulating here the past couple days, IMHO that’s a spot on description of where this is heading. Full circle in one century.
“Perhaps I’m hopelessly old school, but sharing any bit of one’s personal financial business with any branch of one’s employer sounds like a bad move.”
I suppose that long-term rent-free ‘owners’ who are suddenly forced to move out by Megabank, Inc’s eviction crew may face an employment-disrupting effort to find affordable rental housing?
You do know a credit check is now SOP for employment and has been for almost 2 decades, right?
In theory, more stringent rules about ones’ credit if one is trying to get or maintain a certain level of security clearance.
In practice, I know of one such person who basically was upside down in his $600,000 house. Somehow bailed out of it and now he and his family live in a mobile home. He still drives his Mercedes, presumably bought with his HELOC. He is by no means a valuable employee - scatterbrained and very hard to understand since he was born in Asia. Sometime I will be told how he slipped through the cracks.
How about the evidence that was reported that some Health Insurance Companies have applied pressure on Companies
regarding health risks and age prejudice regarding Health Coverage . In other words, because of employer related health costs a new prejudice emerged in the hiring of older workers .
When I think of how many years were spent and how many battles were fought to remove prejudice from the workplace and now the gains are crumbling .
Carrie Ann…….. spill the beans sister.
Can’t but I should really keep a journal to share some of these nutty details later.
REHobbyist–
If you’re reading this, please know that I am sending you tons ‘o good thoughts today. Personally, I think you should use this time as an excuse to read Jonathon Franzen’s newest– and hang in there girl.
Best,
a
Thank you, ahensen! I haven’t read any of his work, but I’ll download one on my Kindle today.
How are you doing? Are you out and about again?
“Wedding bells ring sooner for women in places where single ladies are scarce, according to a new study of metropolitan areas in America.
Where single women are rare, women marry earlier, researchers reported Aug. 4 in the journal Evolutionary Psychology. The shift may be because the ladies have more men to choose from, while the men have extra motivation to put a ring on it.
“Women are basically getting snapped up, because the guys want to get her before somebody else does,” study author Daniel Kruger, an evolutionary psychologist at the University of Michigan, told LiveScience. ”
Makes about as much sense as “snapping up” a foreclosure if you ask me….
Get married now, or be priced out forever!
It now takes a college professor to understand these things?
Oh. My. God. We’re screwed.
“Where single women are rare, women marry earlier, researchers reported Aug. 4 in the journal Evolutionary Psychology. The shift may be because the ladies have more men to choose from, while the men have extra motivation to put a ring on it.”
Were the authors dyslexic? Certainly they intended to say, ‘Where women marry earlier, single women are rare.’
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama is naming Elizabeth Warren a special adviser to oversee creation of a new consumer protection bureau, dodging a fight with Senate Republicans who view her as too critical of Wall Street to be confirmed as the agency’s chief.
One step forward, just waiting for the two steps back.
Saying your a fan of Warren, this bureau, or both?
Warren
Maybe your right and she is just playing the same role Volker played.
One thing that’ll be interesting to watch with this bureau is the legal implications. Since it’s under the Federal Reserve it technically isn’t a government agency. What will this mean with regards to the rules it creates? What if a “rogue” bank simply doesn’t want to abide by these rules - will it be possible for the government to take legal action?
I’m surprised nobody on high is concerned that there might be a conflict of interest between the Fed’s efforts to help banks and Warren’s efforts to help consumers, especially when banks are roaming the land evicting debt-beat home owners.
Yes.
Which is why her job will be all bark and no bite. However the purpose will have been served - make the consumer feel good, knowing that they’re being safely protected by the “government” watchdog.
Progressives will end up being as disappointed in the work she does as they have been with Obama’s constraints (lack thereof) on the Patriot Act. It’ll probably just take longer - after a few years (or decades even) when the next big “unexpected” bubble crashes; and all will be left scratching their heads and saying “I thought this new power was supposed to prevent this. What happened?”.
I’m thinking Elizabeth Warren will simply be Volkered.
+1
This is just great!
My family paid for my tuition b/c I didnt qualify for financial aid, and most of my friends are in the same boat… others had to take students loads, but go ahead! let’s let all these children get to college and apply for financial aid… most of them will qualify b.c of low income + mostly minorities….
Who cares if someone from Iowa wants to study in California? He/she will pay out-of-state tuition… and the children of illegal aliens? They’ll pay in-state tuition.
Who cares about all the people who have done everything right and are hoping for the green card after years and years of waiting? Let’s let the children of illegal to the front of the line….
============
Immigration Update—Dream Act Could Move with Defense Bill
Senate Democrats want to pass a scaled-back immigration measure that would give citizenship to young adults who are in the country illegally. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said this week that he would like to attach the DREAM Act to the FY11 defense authorization bill that will likely be brought to the Senate floor next week.
The DREAM Act would allow young illegal immigrants who were brought to the country when they were minors, and who graduate from a high school in the U.S., to receive citizenship if they go to college or give at least two years of military service
Those who oppose the provision say it is deeper than just a quick solution. Federation for American Immigration Reform Special Projects Director Jack Martin said it is an amnesty measure that does not just target young kids. Martin said that once these young adults have green cards they will then be able to sponsor their parents and siblings to become legal.
——————
There’s a bad joke in there somewhere. A lot of the folks I know who vociferously supported the march to war are also flatly against amnesty, so I’ll have to ask them what they think of the pols affixing one to the other.
I don’t think Harry Reid cares about those people…
He’s trying to get the Hispanic votes in Nevada prior to the mid-term elections to get re-elected.
All those ‘new citizens’ will obviously vote 4 the democrats… they’d better thank the one who gave them a path to citizenship…
It has short-term (re-election) an long-term (more democracts) benefits…
From what I have read few Hispanics bother to naturalize after they get their greencard. Of course that won’t keep them from voting illegally, but since when has that ever been an issue for them?
in the the south we call that “dancin’ with the one that brung ya.”
I still think this whole amnesty thing is about funding the lowest level of the Ponzi in an attempt to prevent SS/Medicare from going broke. When the entire boomer mass is in their retirement years living till 90+ (my in laws are both 80+ and pretty darn spry and engaged) the system will be creaking under the weight of all of us w/o much other place for relief.
One big difference between the current oldsters and the ones to follow: obesity. I wouldn’t be surpised if people living into their 90’s became less common than it is now.
One big difference between the current oldsters and the ones to follow: obesity.
250 lbs is the new 200. I saw a friend in the USA who used to be obese but lost about 50 lbs because he quit drinking. He still wasn’t skinny.
He said he felt better but also felt like a little wimp because he was so much smaller.
I told him to visit Brazil and he’d feel better. Or worse.
I have a lot of interaction w/medical personnel and agree the stories of the general public and their weight are shocking. But there is also a burgeoning group of super athlete 40 somethings. (Ironman set) This subset is doing whatever it takes to slowdown the clock or maybe the fare on the tellie is driving them 1/2 mad and training and setting goals for themselves is the answer.
And then once you’re hanging in that group and you see 70+ year olds doing these challenges you know its a lifestyle you can cling to for quite a while. One of the directors we train under said his programs are exploding.
“I wouldn’t be surpised if people living into their 90’s became less common than it is now.
Most of them won’t make it into their 70s.
Getting citizenship by serving in the military is a very very old concept. A standard way for Filipinos to get US citizenship was to enlist in the Navy. When I was out and about in the Navy as a civilian tech rep, a significant portion of the senior NCOs were Filipinos.
I know a lady whose father assisted the Allies when he was 10 years old. Little Filipino boy running hither and yon. What could possibly be wrong with that?
Well, from the occupying Japanese perspective, there was something wrong with it. My friend’s father was acting as a message courier for the Allies.
Fortunately, he never got caught. ISTR that his WWII role served in good stead when he applied for citizenship in this country.
This morning my husband told me about a young teacher at his high school. She and her husband are both employed, and they bought a house in a Sacramento suburb called Citrus Heights about five years ago. It’s a small house, and they are deeply underwater now. Knowing what I do about that market, the house has probably lost 60% of its 2005 value. They have one baby and would like to have another. Their original plan was to move up to a house in a better school district before their child reached school age. They are contemplating voluntary foreclosure, because they don’t have a hardship. They will consult a real estate attorney before they make any moves. Right now they’re just agonizing over what to do.
the house has probably lost 60% of its 2005 value
Geez, what can possibly be said for their Sit-U-Ation? Stash-the-cash & pack-the-boxes & locate-a-rental,…wait ’till the-last-possible-day to call U-haul.
Flash card #4:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/west/WileE.jpg
Advocate-for-”others”-other-than-themselves: :-/
SellYourHomeForAllitsWorth
8048 Sunrise Bl, Citrus Heights, CA 95610
Hey Packy, see what’s happening on the Emerald Isle today?
Those Euro debt problems are like a globalista’s financial herpes.
Portugal too. Seems Europe has both oral and genital herpes (based on their respective locations relative to the continent).
“The DREAM Act would allow young illegal immigrants who were brought to the country when they were minors, and who graduate from a high school in the U.S., to receive citizenship if they go to college or give at least two years of military service”
Maybe while they’re at it they can clear out the prisons and let them into the military. Makes me proud to be a veteran knowing that MY military is targeted as a dumping ground for people who are unfit to serve and who moist likely have no true allegiance to this country.
One of the handy-people who works on the Arizona Slim Ranch is a Vietnam-era veteran of the USMC officer corps. You talk about a dumping ground — that’s how the draft treated the USMC.
But then, as now, the USMC had standards. She said that she had to discharge 90% of the draftees who were sent her way.
Wasn’t joining the military an alternative to prison for some in the Vietnam era?
“Wasn’t joining the military an alternative to prison for some in the Vietnam era?”
Yes…but refusing to go to Nam could land you in their gov’t pokey.
Sort of a Catch 22 time in America if you weren’t Dick Cheney or you didn’t hit the gate at 98, heading north into Canada.
“…and who graduate from a high school in the U.S….”
I missed that part. With dropout rates at 50+% for illegals and the next 40% barely making it, I don’t think we have to worry about anything.
But am I for it? Hell no! Give that money to citizens first, dammit!
And if you think this is bad, just consider that special programs for immigrants, both legal and illegal, have been going on for at least 30 years that I can remember.
so my Bank of America Checking account had 2 minor child accounts linked for my 2 kids to save there allowance, christmas money etc.
well they noticed they had less than they should in thier accounts turns out the bank decided to charge 5 bucks a month to any accounts under 300 dollars
they were not happy but I think have learned a valuble lesson about banks and who is really in charge of the US
My wife threatened to pull all accounts so I guess we will get our 10 bucks back, until next time and there always is a nest time in “payday nation USA”
in Phoenix I really was ready to dump Bof A for Midfirst bank
I had to watch BofA carefully - lots of errors, mostly in their favor. I left for Crocker Bank years ago, which eventually got folded into Wells Fargo. Wells Fargo doesn’t make arithmetic errors, but I recently got a $20 fee on my checking account and had to call them to reverse it.
I had to watch BofA carefully - lots of errors, mostly in their favor.
You’re supposed to get $200 for that though, right?
(oh wait, that’s when they’re in you’re favor)
They all make all sorts of errors.
One time WF mistyped an acct number and I paid someone else’s CC bill… something over 2K if i recall.
They also allowed someone to make a large purchase at a Target store a thousand miles away, and I got charged for it. I never got to the bottom of that one. After talking to Target security and learning a few details, I feared it might be identity theft. Bank reimbursed me but never explained what actually happened despite my requests.
“well they noticed they had less than they should in thier accounts turns out the bank decided to charge 5 bucks a month to any accounts under 300 dollars”
BB&T tried to pull that crap on a small money market account we had a few years back, money that became our DD’s college savings fund. We stayed long enough to get the money refunded and then we pulled every dime we had on deposit with them. We got treated MUCH better at the credit union across the road.
CUs are not perfect, but they are far, FAR better than banks.
One of the reasons for this is that the banking lobby has been trying to regulate them out of business for decades. This has only served to protect the customers and provide superior service.
While CUs are not invulnerable to failure, their rate of failure is nothing compared to banks and the now defunct Savings & Loan sector.
Big name bank?
SUCKER!
They will screw you every chance they get. Move your acct NOW!
“Governments cannot create wealth by printing money. If they could we wouldn’t have to work”
~Jeff Harding
yeah.. well.. Working doesn’t automatically create wealth either.
Most work creates wealth. It’s just a matter of to whom it accrues.
Really think so? I doubt that.
Lets both make a list and see who’s is longer.
I’ll start.. Housework.
Since you don’t have to pay for a maid, you get to save the money, increasing your wealth.
The bachelor should be admonished that Cleanliness is next to getting some.
Isn’t money saved money earned? If you don’t do your housework yourself, you will have to pay for it. So I think it creates wealth, no?
So I think it creates wealth, no?
I think it more conserves, rather than creates.
Most work creates wealth. It’s just a matter of to whom it accrues.”
haha thats’ right
Nothing “automatically” creates wealth, that’s the problem.
i knew the word “automatically” wasn’t the best word. Thought about “necessarily”.. and “guarantee”.
Govt’s printing money can be one step towards wealth creation. It can be a vital step. It’s possible that wealth can be destroyed if money is not printed.
All in all i wasn’t really impressed with Harding’s quote. It lacks intellectual honesty.
Greece’s economic crisis is creating an unexpected boom for at least one industry.
Banks, stores and companies are hiring security guards, installing alarm systems and renting armored cars as rising hardship leads to an increase in crime. Britain’s G4S Plc and Brink’s Co. of the U.S., along with Pyrsos Security, Greece’s largest domestic private security firm, are winning new clients.
“Here in Greece we never had this situation,” said Sakis Tsaoussis, president of Athens-based Pyrsos, which counts Agricultural Bank SA, Coca-Cola Hellenic Bottling Co. and retailer Inditex SA among customers. “We could walk anywhere. You could sleep with the windows open. Now we are scared.”
Robberies, ranging from street muggings to bank hold-ups and house burglaries, totaled about 80,000 in 2009, up from about 50,000 in 2005, data compiled by ICAP Group’s Athens office show. The increase occurred as the unemployment rate rose to a 10-year high of 11.8 percent and the government and European Union estimate the Greek economy will contract 4 percent this year and 2.6 percent next year.
Security companies might make a good investment
Coming soon to a neighborhood near you, roving hoardes of starving masses.
Interestingly - there was a WaPo article recently showing that crime was down in the U.S. across the board - inexplicably, since normally it’s up during recessions.
Though I would imagine if we get to Greece-like crisis it’ll go up.
Yep, our fiscal austerity programs haven’t started yet.
BINGO
We are handing out unemployment checks that have kept things in check. When those run out and unemployment isn’t any better you’ll see the increase.
I’m already seeing it in my city. Along with a general level of “pissy-ness” everywhere.
When I lived in Pittsburgh during the 1980s, unemployment was up to around 20%. Yet, during this same time, crime was very low.
Why? Because, and this is strictly anecdotal, Pittsburghers looked out for each other. We were sort of like a city of nosy neighbors. And that made it rather difficult to commit crimes and get away with them.
This Greek crime wave is far more likely due to “austerity” measures.
These criminals did not lose their jobs. They had no jobs.
They lost some of their govt bennies..
I suppose they are somewhat organized.. mass demonstrations have occurred.. and this thing might even be deliberately planned and executed.
..The increase occurred as the unemployment rate rose to a 10-year high of 11.8 percent..
That statement makes it sound as though the crime rate and unemployment are tied together.
According to this chart, Greek unemployment was even higher, at 12% eleven years ago. Was there a crime wave at that time?
“Here in Greece we never had this situation,” said Sakis Tsaoussis ….so I guess that answers my question.
http://www.euroekonom.com/graphs-data.php?type=unemployment-greece
———-
And if bad economic times are good for security companies, it should follow that good times offer little opportunity.
According to the (5yr) chart, such was not the case for Brinks. They bubbled along with everything else, and fell as the economy fell.
http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/BCO
Unemployment + loss of benefits +loss in stock market+ belief that banks are saved while Greek citizen is sold up the river.
Exactly. This time the safety net is gone.
nah.. you don’t know that these thugs lost their jobs.
It’s just a bunch of bums that lost their govt bennies.. and if the govt won’t put the squeeze on the distressed working class, they’ll do it themselves.
It’s just a bunch of bums that lost their govt bennies.. and if the govt won’t put the squeeze on the distressed working class, they’ll do it themselves.
We’ll see.
Time to put the bling away or maybe even sell it.
“Keep Your Powder Dry”: Housing Slump Still Not Over, Says Economist David Levy
The housing market took another hit as RealtyTrac reported foreclosures climbed 25% in August vs. the prior year. Last month was actually the worst month for foreclosures since the recession began.
David Levy, chairman of the Jerome Levy Forecasting Center, does not expect the market to pick up anytime soon.
“I think we are seeing a market where, essentially, we have a lot of people still in homes they can’t afford, especially with so many people out of work and with reduced incomes,” Levy says.
If more people are forced to sell, that will contribute to the already huge supply of houses on the market; at 12.5 months, the inventory-to-sales ratio (the amount of time it would take to sell all of the existing homes for sale) is at an all-time high. And the supply of homes for sale (at cut-rate prices) is expected to rise as banks become more desperate to shed their balance sheets of bad loans.
The tax credit for first-time homebuyers ended in April and any positive effects it did have on the housing market have worn off, as evidenced by the huge drop in July home sales.
“We are seeing in a lot of the data a real hangover from that,” says Levy, who does not see a housing recovery happening within the next 12-to-15 months. Deflation will be prevalent and make it difficult to accurately price assets, he says.
“Keep Your Powder Dry”
More than dry, I think people are just trying to keep the powder itself.
The powder has a way of slipping through one’s fingers in times like these. Pretty soon, only those with ready access to free powder seem to have any available.
Friday, September 17, 2010
California budget impasse sets record
Silicon Valley / San Jose Business Journal
There is less attention focused this year on California’s annual budget deadlock but it has just set a record for being late.
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and lawmakers enter the 79th day on Friday without an agreement on how to resolve a $19 billion deficit, breaking a state record set two years ago.
Last year’s impasse produced state-issued IOUs and calls for an overhaul of state government. This year attention has been more focused on the political campaigns of the candidates who will become part of next year’s budget debates when Schwarzenegger gets termed out.
Arguments have hardened on the usual political themes, with Democrats calling for a combination of spending cuts, new taxes and fees, along with a delay in corporate tax breaks. Republicans reject the call for new taxes and fees, calling for more spending cuts and federal assistance.
There is still time, however, to avoid the next potential record on California’s governmental dysfunction timeline, however. The latest that a California budget has been signed is Sept. 23.
On the inflation front . . .
The Consumer Price Index bumped up 0.3 percent last month. Pretty bland until you think - “On an annualized basis that would run to near 4 percent!” We haven’t had anything like that since 2007.
I think you mean 2008.
YOY it is closer to 2%.
Watching the price of corn go through the roof again. Everybody knows PMs hitting highs. Yet there is a gut wrenching tension. Crossroads dead ahead maybe.
REAL inflation is far, far higher than that.
If my store brand can of beans goes from $1 to $1.50, what is that? If the dollar menu goes from $1 to $1.25, what is that? If my store brand of cheese goes from $2 to $3, what is that? If the cheap brand of juice goes from $2 to $2.80, what is that?
It sure isn’t 4%.
How about the REAL IMPORTANT stuff!
A dozen nightcrawlers at WallyWorld now is only 10 nightcrawlers. That is pretty darn close to 20%.
See?!
A carton of 100 12 gauge shotshells was $15 at wallyworld. Last week it was $22.
Bill sets 45-day deadline on lender short sale decisions
www dot reoi dot com/news/bill-sets-45-day-deadline-on-lender-short-sale-decisions
“Real estate brokers who have long complained about the time it takes to complete a short sale now have two U.S. congressmen in their corner who are sponsoring a bill that would require lenders to respond to consumer short sale requests within 45 days.
“The National Association of Realtors (NAR) is supporting the bill, H.R. 6133, “Prompt Decision for Qualification of Short Sale Act of 2010.” It was filed Sept. 15 by U.S. Reps. Robert Andrews (D-N.J.) and Tom Rooney (R-Fla.). The bill was referred to the House Committee on Financial Services on Wednesday.”
Dear FB,
In response yesterday’s request that we cooperate in a “short sale” on your alligator, that request is denied.
Now that we have complied with the new law, we may or may not change our decision, depending on further investigation. Please be patient.
Sincerely, the bank.
Note: Do not respond to this email. Your short-sale request automatically generated this denial, and there is no valid return address.
coworker of mine bought a 1M townhouse at 4.5 to 5 times earnings and a 5 year ARM.
still a long way to go folks.
OTOH, you can regale us with all sorts of gossip over the next five years.
Banker? Lawyer? Doctor?
Oh yes michael, you are going to have to keep us updated on this one.
I know there are other web developers/IT folks who hang out here.
Maybe someone can take advantage of this or pass it on. It’s just a one-month gig, but it can be done remotely.
–
Hi ,
My name is Steve and I’m an IT recruiter at Ramsoft Systems Inc. Our records show that you are an experienced IT professional. I am looking for a consultant with experience as a Web developer. If you have experience in this field, are interested in this position and looking for a new assignment, please review the following requirement and forward your word formatted resume along with your contact information. If you are no longer looking for a new project, but know someone who can benefit from this position, please refer.
Web Designer Can work Remeotely
1 months
Locations: San Diego- CA
Rate : Open
Job Description :
Qualified Candidate Description: Must have current verifiable PMI PMP
· Designs and builds web pages using a variety of graphics software applications, techniques and tools. Designs and develops user interface features, site animation, and special-effects elements. Contributes to the design group’s efforts to enhance the look and feel of the organization’s online offerings.
· Designs the website to support the organization’s strategies and goals relative to external communications.
· Typically requires a college degree in fine arts or graphic design. Requires understanding of web-based technologies and thorough knowledge of HTML, PhotoShop, Illustrator, and/or other design-related applications.;
· Senior Web UX Architect / Chief Designer Requirement for part-time, on-demand web design services. The provider is expected to work remotely.
· The number of hours required can vary from 0 to 25 hours per week depending upon project need, and the provider must be able to supply services on short notice (within 1-3 days of request). Requirements:
· 7+ years in web, graphic, and UX design.
· Ability to take client requirements from wireframes to design drafts to final design artifacts.
· Extensive experience with Adobe Illustrator and Adobe Photoshop.
· Must show demonstrated experience developing cross-site/app design frameworks for high-profile web apps and web sites, and provide multiple client references.
· Must show knowledge of current Web/HTML/CSS/JavaScript technology in recent experience. •Ability to deliver all design components, from wireframes through site-flow, UI element conception and design, color palette, icon palette, and page templates.
· Ability to manage all design aspects of project, from concept, iteration, through final delivery, and provide mechanisms to host and manage client design iteration requests.
· US Citizen.
Regards,
Steve
Ramsoft Systems Inc
Certified: ISO 9001: 2000, MBE
ERP, BI, EAI, E-Business: “Projects & Staffing”
Tel: 248 327 3482, Fax: 248 354 3626
steve@ramsoft.net, http://www.ramsoft.net
IM’s: Steve.reqs@yahoo.com , Steve.ramsoft@gmail.com
“Proudly serving the industry for 17 years”
Best Craigslist story of the day!
Two crooks advertised a really good deal on a laptop, intending to rob whoever showed up. Their bad luck: it was the Ada county (metro Boise) sheriff who showed up.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/09/17/1343839/police-two-robbers-picked-the.html
This is the wrong way to get your picture in the local paper.
“Meet us at midnight at the end of the dirt road you passed a few miles back. There’s a gate at the end. Bring the money.”
“Duh.. ok!
Was that the first time ever they tried that, or was it a repeat performance?
The story says they are up on multiple charges from similar stunts in the past.
Can you say NAR PROPAGANDA? I knew you could.
http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/110685/10-reasons-to-buy-a-home?mod=realestate-buy
UPenn’s Wharton school newsletter article on deflation:
http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=2587
‘Not many economists expect deep, prolonged Depression era-like deflation. But the U.S. and world economies are not emerging from the recession as quickly as many had predicted at the start of the year, and some experts warn that the risk of deflation should be a top concern for policymakers. “I think there’s a reasonable probability we will have deflation in a number of Western countries sometime over the next year or two,” says Wharton finance professor Franklin Allen, who included the United States in that assessment.’
Why not worry about the (potential) complete shutdown of the housing market if home prices are artificially propped up at unaffordable levels? Deflation could be driven by a lack of liquidity in the housing market, due to lofty wishing prices which almost no buyer is willing or able to pay, given gloomy economic circumstances.
As a consequence of a dearth of home sales transactions, demand for a host of complementary goods and services (furniture, appliances, moving vans and services, home decorating, real estate sales assistance, private mortgage banking, home construction, etc) is in the crapper. The money which those working in these industries are not earning results in a dearth of consumption demand which reduces consumer good prices —
Aha! Unaffordable home prices increase the risk of deflation!!!
* HOUSE TALK
* SEPTEMBER 17, 2010, 9:38 A.M. ET
Renter’s Apartment Is Foreclosed
By JUNE FLETCHER
Q: I loved my old apartment, but recently received a notice that it is being foreclosed on. I need to find a new place soon. How can I check out the next landlord to make sure I don’t have to go through the hassle and expense of moving again? And how can I make sure I get my security deposit back from my old landlord?
—Orlando, Fla.
A: I’m sorry to hear that you had to go through that. To protect yourself in the future, once you pinpoint a property you’d like to rent, take some time to check out the landlord, whether it’s a person or a business entity.
…
Global warming should be very good for the value of polar-oriented real estate assets. Too early to invest in Greenland real estate?
(I will kick myself in three decades when the WSJ is running stories of self-made millionaire Greenland real estate investors…)
* THE SATURDAY ESSAY
* SEPTEMBER 18, 2010
Unfreezing Arctic Assets
A bloc of countries above the 45th parallel is poised to dominate the next century. Welcome to the New North.
By LAURENCE C. SMITH
Imagine the Arctic in 2050 as a frigid version of Nevada—an empty landscape dotted with gleaming boom towns. Gas pipelines fan across the tundra, fueling fast-growing cities to the south like Calgary and Moscow, the coveted destinations for millions of global immigrants. It’s a busy web for global commerce, as the world’s ships advance each summer as the seasonal sea ice retreats, or even briefly disappears.
Much of the planet’s northern quarter of latitude, including the Arctic, is poised to undergo tremendous transformation over the next century. As a booming population increases the demand for the Earth’s natural resources, and as lands closer to the equator face the prospect of rising water demand, droughts and other likely changes, the prominence of northern countries will rise along with their projected milder winters.
If Florida coasts become uninsurable and California enters a long-term drought, might people consider moving to Minnesota or Alberta? Will Spaniards eye Sweden? Might Russia one day, its population falling and needful of immigrants, decide a smarter alternative to resurrecting old Soviet plans for a 1,600-mile Siberia-Aral canal is to simply invite former Kazakh and Uzbek cotton farmers to abandon their dusty fields and resettle Siberia, to work in the gas fields?
…
On and on down the road to serfdom we march along in grim lockstep while the Fed-funded banksters get richer and richer.
* ECONOMY
* SEPTEMBER 17, 2010
Lost Decade for Family Income
By CONOR DOUGHERTY And SARA MURRAY
The downturn that some have dubbed the “Great Recession” has trimmed the typical household’s income significantly, new Census data show, following years of stagnant wage growth that made the past decade the worst for American families in at least half a century.
Conor Dougherty and Mark Whitehouse discuss two sides of America’s strained economy: a poverty rate that has climbed to its highest level since 1994 and the increasing income volatility among the rich.
The bureau’s annual snapshot of American living standards also found that the fraction of Americans living in poverty rose sharply to 14.3% from 13.2% in 2008—the highest since 1994. Some 43.6 million Americans were living below the official poverty threshold, but the measure doesn’t fully capture the panoply of government antipoverty measures.
The inflation-adjusted income of the median household—smack in the middle of the populace—fell 4.8% between 2000 and 2009, even worse than the 1970s, when median income rose 1.9% despite high unemployment and inflation. Between 2007 and 2009, incomes fell 4.2%.
“It’s going to be a long, hard slog back to what most Americans think of as normalcy or prosperous times,” said Nicholas Eberstadt, a political economist at the right-leaning American Enterprise Institute.
…
Dumbocratic FB story… how wonderful for a politician to provide such an exemplary tale of financial folly for others who might otherwise catch themselves falling knives!
Moua finds message in foreclosure woes
Others in her position ‘are not alone’
By Dave Orrick
dorrick@pioneerpress.com
Updated: 09/17/2010 11:44:27 PM CDT
State Sen. Mee Moua on Friday sought to use her family’s foreclosure experience as the basis of a message for others going through the process.
“There are many families who will be following this story who have lost homes or will soon lose homes to foreclosure,” said Moua, who moved out of her parents’ foreclosed house in St. Paul in June. “I want them to know that if they are feeling alone and afraid, they need to know that I understand and that they are not alone in facing these difficult times.”
Citing a figure estimating Minnesota home foreclosures at 62,000, the Democrat, who is not seeking re-election, said of her family, “Sadly, we are hardly unique in the America of 2010.”
In 2005, Moua, her husband and their three children moved into a Highwood neighborhood home her parents bought for $800,000 with a plan to pool their incomes to pay for it. By Sept. 2009, they owed $720,000 on the home, which had fallen below $500,000 in value, and were more than $18,000 behind on payments, according to Ramsey County records.
When the bank foreclosed on the house late last year, the Mouas moved in with relatives across the street. The house was sold last week for $379,000.
Moua called a news conference to field questions from other media on the story, reported exclusively in Friday’s Pioneer Press.
She opened by asserting that neither she nor her family is homeless. It was a reference to a headline in Friday’s Pioneer Press, which described her as “homeless.”
…
This sucker’s trending down!
Foreclosures climb again
Cape Coral-Fort Myers saw the greatest month-to-month jump nationwide in July; numbers up 21 percent over June
By DREW WINCHESTER, dwinchester@breezenewspapers.com
POSTED: September 18, 2010
Online foreclosure website Realtytrac reported the Cape Coral/Fort Myers area saw a 21 percent jump in foreclosure filings between June and July this year, and a 10 percent increase between July and August, despite a 9 percent decrease year over year.
Lee County Clerk of Courts Charlie Green said the data is not entirely accurate nor does it tell the entire story, as foreclosure filings as a whole have been “trending downward” steadily over the last year.
While slight increases might be seen month to month, he said, overall, Lee County’s foreclosure inventory isn’t the behemoth it once was.
“We’re getting them out of the pipeline,” Green said. “January of this year is the only month so far that we’ve taken in more then we’ve disposed of.”
According to Green, 929 foreclosures were filed in June of this year, 778 in July, 865 in August.
June 2009 there were 1,653 foreclosure filings, 1,903 for July, and 1,626 for August.
Though the county had 865 foreclosure filings in August, Green said, they were able to dispose of 2,610.
“It’s going to go up and down some month to month, but thank God it’s trending down,” Green said.
…
Foreclosure filings in Hawaii set record
September 17, 2010
HONOLULU (AP) - A new report out this week says the number of foreclosure filings in Hawaii hit an all-time high of 1,629 in August.
According to the foreclosure listing firm RealtyTrac Inc., Hawaii had the 10th-highest foreclosure rate in the nation last month, with filings equating to one for every 315 households in the state.
Hawaii’s old high of 1,534 filings was set in December. Last month’s record is 87 percent above the 869 foreclosure filings in August 2009.
Maui County again had the highest rate of the state’s four counties at one filing per 187 households with a total of 353. By ZIP code, Kihei topped the list with 121 foreclosures, followed by Lahaina with 94.
The Big Island had the next-worst county rate at one per 205 households for a total of 353. Kauai had 87 filings, or one per 342 households.
Oahu had the most foreclosures at 800, but the lowest rate at one for every 421 households.
Nevada posted the highest foreclosure rate in the nation, with one in every 84 households receiving a notice. That’s 4.5 times the national average.
Home Seizures Hit Record High
By Max Fisher | September 16, 2010 10:00am
Home Seizures Hit Record High Getty Images
The number of U.S. homes seized by banks reached 95,364 in August, the highest monthly figure on record since analysts began tracking the number in 2005. That’s a 25 percent increase from the August 2009 figure. In recent weeks, the housing market has declined so precipitously that some experts have suggested the end of housing as an investment. Here’s what journalists and experts have to say about the latest record-breaking bad news.
…
‘American dream’ a rude awakening
Unable to make the payments, Mee Moua’s parents lost the St. Paul house where the legislator also lived.
By RANDY FURST, Star Tribune
Last update: September 17, 2010 - 11:43 PM
Minnesota Sen. Mee Moua called the upscale home where she lived on St. Paul’s east side the fulfillment of the American dream.
On Friday she acknowledged that the dream came crashing down after the legislative session ended this spring, when the home went into foreclosure and was sold.
The house, which had an adjustable-rate mortgage, was owned by Moua’s parents, and Moua and her husband were renters who contributed to the mortgage payments, she said. But her husband, who was in real estate, left the business because of the declining housing market, which added to the family’s inability to make the payments.
“Like many Americans, when the housing bubble collapsed in 2007, the market conditions under which we bought the house didn’t work anymore,” Moua said. “In the end, my parents could not make the payments, the mortgage company wouldn’t modify the loan and the mortgage company foreclosed.”
…
Home Seizures Hit Record High
By Max Fisher | September 16, 2010 10:00am
The number of U.S. homes seized by banks reached 95,364 in August, the highest monthly figure on record since analysts began tracking the number in 2005. That’s a 25 percent increase from the August 2009 figure. In recent weeks, the housing market has declined so precipitously that some experts have suggested the end of housing as an investment. Here’s what journalists and experts have to say about the latest record-breaking bad news.
…
Fan & Fred = Cinderella’s fugly sisters.
Kanjorski Bashes Fannie and Freddie’s ‘Reckless Risk-Taking’
Published: Friday, 17 Sep 2010 | 12:45 PM ET
Uncle Sam’s ugly, unmarriable children, Fannie and Freddie already have a mountain of misery and challenges and their problems are about to get bigger as signs of the softening real estate market and anticipated foreclosures are expected to climb and continue.
The troubled twins have already reclaimed nearly as many of the homes as they did in 2009 and the year isn’t over yet.
Today I went across the aisle to speak with Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D) Pennsylvania, Chairman of the Capital Markets Subcommittee to ask him his solutions on what to do with Fannie and Freddie.
…
Renters, don’t put your neck on the line until strategic defaults down down and get priced in along with other components of shadow inventory (banks desperately selling REO short, etc…).
Abandoning a Home Loan Is Acceptable to 36% of Americans, Pew Survey Finds
By John Gittelsohn - Sep 15, 2010 12:00 PM PT
More than one-third of Americans say it’s acceptable under some circumstances to stop paying a mortgage and walk away from the home, a survey by the Pew Research Center found.
While 59 percent of those surveyed said it’s “unacceptable” to abandon a home loan, 19 percent said it was “acceptable” and another 17 percent said it depends on the circumstances, an answer that wasn’t on the survey, said Rich Morin, a Pew Research senior editor in Washington. Of the respondents, 63 percent own homes and 31 percent are renters.
“We all know the percentage of people who walked away has been increasing,” Morin said in a telephone interview. “Whether that builds sympathy or resentment, I think, remains to be seen.”
Homeowners are struggling with their mortgages amid job losses and the worst housing crash since the Great Depression. About 14.4 percent of home loans were delinquent or in foreclosure at the end of June, the Mortgage Bankers Association reported Aug. 26.
U.S. unemployment was 9.6 percent in August, near a 26-year high. Home prices in 20 cities are down 28 percent from their 2006 peak, according to the S&P/Case-Shiller index of property values.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the largest U.S. mortgage- finance companies, and their regulator, the Federal Housing Finance Agency, “are concerned about borrowers who have an ability to pay but who choose to default on their mortgages,” FHFA acting director Edward DeMarco told a Congressional subcommittee hearing today. “Strategic defaults not only result in increased losses for taxpayers, but also have a deleterious effect on neighborhoods,” he said.
Strategic Defaults Rise
About 12 percent of residential-loan defaults in February were strategic, meaning homeowners decided not to make payments even though they could afford to, New York-based Morgan Stanley said in an April 29 report. The rate was about 4 percent in mid- 2007.
…
“More than one-third of Americans say it’s acceptable under some circumstances to stop paying a mortgage and walk away from the home, a survey by the Pew Research Center found.”
I know that in a lot of cases it is by far the best thing to do financially. I was taught by my father and listened to football coaches talking about other people saying that once you quit the first time it becomes a lot easier to quit the second and so on. I just wonder if this will become a nation of quitters? Ah, I made a bad deal hell with it, it doesn`t matter everybody else does it. Another thing I wasn`t taught by my dad but read somewhere that if you have to justify something you are also wrong. Maybe like “the bank overloaned me”.