Bits Bucket For September 18, 2010
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The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
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So the other day I was making out a check for some purchases at a local thrift where I’ve been shopping for years. A relatively new clerk tells me in this little wheenie-whiney voice that she needs, in addition to my driver’s license and phone number, a physical address. Other customers are lined up behind me waiting to check out. I told her I’d been shopping there for years and never been asked for it before. She insists, because “she’s had to call other customers who didn’t give her a physical address”. She’s telling me this all bug-eyed and wheenie-whiney.
I said “Really? Oh. My. God. Let me have the check back”. I took the check back, left my crap on the counter and walked out, leaving a trail of customers lined up while she had to call for a manager to void the transaction before she could do anything else.
It was just one of those days, and I was tired of all the small and large indignities that have become more and more a part of everyday life because of globalization, illegal immigration, corporatization, etc. Besides, it’s the HBB’s fault. I had read that post about the guy who had his credit card interest rate jacked up and instead of stopping his payments, went out and charged up the card big time before he did so Citibank would have a larger sum to write off. I thought that was awesome. I was inspired
In my own small way, I just decided to make life a little more difficult for the “man”, returning the favor. Sure, the person was just a clerk and just “doing her job”. At no time was I rude or nasty to her directly (although I did sort of imitate the tone of voice a little). But I have to say it sort of did my heart good to walk out leaving the clerk with a line of customers and unable to check anyone out until the register was cleared.
I’m tired of folks using the excuse of “just doing their job” to make life more difficult or undignified for others, in the service of the corporations. ‘Ef ‘em.
I should add that this particular thrift store is part of a corporate, national “chain” of thrift stores. It sends people to certain stores to hoover up any of the quality donations and re-distributes them to other stores, while stocking the local outlet with new crap from China. I stop there occasionally to see what might have slipped through, but otherwise I would have to drive miles to another store to find things that used to be donated locally and sold locally.
Well, just wait until you and everyone else has to fill out a federal tax form for every transaction greater than $600.
And you thought you are already tired of handing out personal information…
Maybe that is the “tranparency” spoken of in D.C.
Why didn’t you just pay cash?
Yes. Unless Card Check someday disallows the use of cash without record keeping.
Don’t like that prospect? Then vote against it. Or begin bartering, which will be the inevitable response to Card Check.
Then the Feds will ban guns, and take your money using their guns.
I wonder whether that reporting of purchases to the IRS statute will finally trigger a 4th Amendment challenge as an unreasonable search.
And if you don’t fill out the form, the 16,500 new IRS agents in the Healthcare Bill will get you ! Aren’t you glad you voted for hope and change with O ba ma ? NOT
Oh I hate when they stock thrifts with crap from China.
I’m rather surprised that thrift stores take checks. Even my local Applebee’s doesn’t take checks.
The real indignity to me is that they want to TRACK everything I buy because they want you in their little club, to get you to buy stuff on a regular basis.
Example: In the video game Grand Theft Auto, you drive around a video cityscape complete with billboards. When you play online, the billboards advertise real products, and if you play online, the billboards change every month. Good god, our live are already 1984; now we’re turning into Minority Report and Gattaca.
“The real indignity to me is that they want to TRACK everything…”
We just ordered our free Lexis Nexus package on ourselves, as it’s our right (for now) to see CLUE Report, Pre-Employment,Education,Residence, and all reports, the PTB have accumulated. Choice Point, the database Nazis, imho.
I bet between CC records, Association Memberships, etc…, we have no privacy. TMI about us in databases, and I for one don’t like it.
Like combo says, “cash is king”. Use cash and they can’t track you.
Unless Card Check becomes a reality. Then you cannot buy things unless you ARE tracked.
Now THAT should make you feel better, awaiting. The Feds - “If you want to buy that thingy, then you WILL be tracked.” Sweet, eh?
CoSpgs4
We usually pay cash, unless we use the CC for bookkeeping purposes (we own a DBA) which makes it easier. We pay in full each month. I catch your drift, and you’re right.
I don’t appreciate my life and my business stored in a database for a purchase by someone. We should have the right to opt out.
(Evidently, my post got ate-duplicate)
CoSpgs4,
We usually pay cash, but we use our CC for bookeeping purposes for our DBA, and of course pay it in full each month. You’re right cash, and we do for our personal stuff, although CC’s come in handy at times.
I think you should have the right to opt out of databases. We don’t get solicitations because we signed up for the Direct Marketing Assoc.’s opt out option. It should be like that on most database info for sale. It’s NOTB.
Like combo says, “cash is king”. Use cash and they can’t track you.
Plus the credit car companies do not get a cut of your cash transaction.
Credit card companies are the small size vampire squids getting 1-2% out of every transaction.
You pay that 1-2% even when you are paying cash.
It largely not matters what you do, what matters is what the mass of humanity does, and that is credit!
You pay that 1-2% even when you are paying cash.
Not necessarily. Often places offer a cash discount. Many gas stations charge less for cash vs credit (they just don’t advertise it).
But yes, you’re right. In general, it matters what the masses do. Which means that each person who doesn’t use credit puts us closer to lowering costs for all, and starving the banks.
“You pay that 1-2% even when you are paying cash.”
True, but at least the local merchant gets to keep it.
What does ‘card check’ have to do with paying cash? We have to join a union to buy stuff at a store?
Potentially, yes. Especially if it’s alcohol and cigarettes. The idea has been floated - repeatedly - that anyone selling such nefarious items will need to report every transaction (complete with purchasor’s name) to the Federal Government. This is done with a card that’s scanned as would be a credit card. No sales to anyone are allowed without a card being scanned.
Then, if the Feds determine that you - the purchasor - is a problem for whatever reason - you drank more booze that your weekly allowance - your ability to purchase is denied for whatever period of time the Feds think is appropriate.
Imagine if that passes. You could then reasonably expect your food purchases regulated via Card Check, too. Nope - can’t buy that cheese. You’ve had too much cholesterol already. Sorry, can’t buy that cookie, either. You’ve already purchased three this week.
Oh please!
You navel-gazing, middle-Americans have simply never bought enough illegal crap in your life.
I’ve lived just about everywhere where everything from condoms to electronics (not kidding!) were “illegal”.
You can get home delivery for this nonsense if you know what you are doing. You can get home delivery at 4am. (Try that with “milk” sometime!)
I have only a few words for the “doomsday sayers”.
Blow me, blow me raw!
True, but at least the local merchant gets to keep it.
I wonder how much it costs them to handle the cash, though. It wouldn’t surprise me if it were on the order of 1-2%.
“…what matters is what the mass of humanity does…”
Or, Pink Floyd:
“Hanging on in quiet desperation. Is the English way. The time is gone. The song is over…”
palmetto,
Was it the one on Hwy19? I liked that one when I was living there. The one I have here in N. Louisiana smells like old, dead dogs inside. There isn’t anything to buy in this one either. Wait, after hunting season I can get my camo wardrobe replenished.
Don’t get me wrong. I like Louisiana. I do miss Tampa/St.Pete, though.
Roidy
P.S. A quick comment about Barney Frank. I do like his sarcasm, and I wish we had more of that in Congress. What we have are the humorless Republicrats that think Henny “Take my wife, please.” Youngman is the ultimate in edgy, sophisticated humor. Don’t get me wrong. I wouldn’t vote for Barney Frank unless I had no other choice. As an example of that is Senator David “Diapers” Vitter or Representative Alexander. Those are not choices.
P.P.S. I was at a party last night and we decided that Gov. Jindal needs to run for POTUS in 2012. He’s done quite enough for Louisiana, thank you. I’m going to campaign for him. I’d hate to keep him here in Louisiana. That would be so selfish.
smells like old, dead dogs inside
Those stores all smell like that to me.
Sounds like a metro (Washington subway) car to me.
Jindal with Condi as VP since he has limited foreign policy experience.
DennisN: based on your last two days’ posts, I think you should ask Condie out. You might turn out to be the man she has been waiting for!
Here I had been thinking that Condie was one of DennisN’s cats…
It should be clear from the context whether I’m discussing Condi the former secretary of state or her namesake pussycat who bosses me around.
I have found that I can go into a high end store, make a purchase for thousands of dollars and show no id to cash a check. They also barter, wave sales tax, allow payment over an extended time period with no interest and yet I went into to a Kmart years ago that wanted to take a thumb print and photo for a $7 purchase. I don’t think so.
Palmetto, I think I’m in love with you from afar. Are you married? — Miss Watching and Waiting
Romance is in the air today!
Strangers in the blog exchanging rantings
Wond’ring in the blog what were the chances
We’d be sharing love before the thread was through
Something in your post was so inviting
Something in you style was so exciting
Something in my mind told me I must have you
Very strong first line. Keep working on it :-).
Miss Watching and Waiting-
You’re adorable. He’s my type too, but I think I’d be his cougar, not to mention my husband might get a tad upset.
Does means checks are bouncing at thrift stores?
Times are INDEED tough and are getting tougher as the economy increasingly becomes two-tiered.
Cash is king. So is cash flow, such as having a job. Those in the top tier has either cash or a job or both. The bottom tier has neither.
Yep, cash is king. I won’t be shopping there again unless I have a wad of cash on me.
A friend of mine is unable to go on a trip with me because of her cash flow. I was very surprised to hear that. She is sort-of nurse. Her husband has been a government employee for at elast 20 years. They bought their home at least 20 years ago. They have one Toyota which they bought when the very old Corolla pooped out. They are not hurting for income.
However, they have a son in a private college and another in private high school. In 2004 they mentioned in passing that they had refinanced the home. I didn’t ask what type of refinancing they did, but they certainly aren’t part of the Escalade set. Where the heck is the money going? Kids and college are enormously expensive…
I have a 40-year-old engineering co-worker, who probably earns in the neighborhood of $130k per year plus stock compensation, who cannot afford to go out to lunch or even eat in the cafeteria. I wonder if it has anything to do with the $900k house he bought in 2008, at 100% financing. I half expect him to bring a gun to work one day.
And all this poor schlub has to do is Man Up and Rent…..
———–
if it has anything to do with the $900k house he bought in 2008, at 100% financing. I half expect him to bring a gun to work one day.
There are two kinds of people. rich people and people who have kids.
Job? Yep.
Cash? Nope. Disney Corp, Nintendo, Verizon, AT&T, Apple, etc etc etc, have it all. I say nothing to me loverly wife, who signed up for cash-draining monthly subscriptions, took the kids on Disney vacation, and bought them I-touches and a WII system without first asking me whether I thought these were good uses of our limited budget, starts complaining that “we have no money.”
Does anyone know how long it takes to boot a homeowner after a trustees sale?Do you have to go through an eviction process or does the owner have so many days to get out in ca? What about if the house is leased to a tenant?Do they have longer to get out? thx
Only a Calif trust / probate lawyer or RE attorney is qualified to answer questions like that, and I don’t think any of them hang in here.
Well even a deadbeat has to have his day in court, so I would make sure you read all the mail and see if they posted a summons on the door
Well evidently the eviction process is different for a owner vs tenant.With an owner you give a 3 day notice.If they dont leave you have to start eviction process in superior ct where property is located.If there is a bonafide tenant it appears they have to be given 90 day notice.So I imagine some of more desperate people are creating leases to family members to give them more time.Here is a good link for anyone interested.http://hubpages.com/hub/CALIFORNIA-FORECLOSURE-PROCESS
There are plenty of special circumstances that nobody but an active, studious attorney would know about..
Try and evict an elderly tenant in San Francisco.. go ahead.. i dare ya.
Yikes!
We’re good. I max out my 401(K). If it doesn’t show up in my take-home pay, it doesn’t exist in her mind. She can blow the rest and complain all she wants about poverty, so long as I know we have savings to draw on in case of rain.
Answer: get a job! When my husband stayed home and took care of the kids when I was a resident, he never complained about my income, and we lived very frugally. When the kids reached high school, it was time for him to go back to work so we could start to do some serious saving and having some fun.
Job? Yep.
Cash? Nope. Disney Corp, Nintendo, Verizon, AT&T, Apple, etc etc etc, have it all. I say nothing to me loverly wife, who signed up for cash-draining monthly subscriptions, took the kids on Disney vacation, and bought them I-touches and a WII system without first asking me whether I thought these were good uses of our limited budget, starts complaining that “we have no money.”
And if you hanged yourself your epithet wouldn’t say, “Thrifty Hard Working Provider”; no, Madison Avenue would ensure that it would be something like, “Selfish Bastard.”
You mean epitaph.
“You mean epitaph.”
I thought it didn’t look right, but the spell checker didn’t stop. Thanks!
My cardiologist’s wife made him buy a home in ‘07. He knew about this blog and reads it. So many guys are ‘forced’ to get with the program even if they know it’s not right.
I got a flu shot at the Walmart yesterday. The nurse was complaining that her credit card had been stolen. The worst part of the story was the thieves used it to pay off a telephone bill. What ever happened to charging TVs, trips, or cash advances to buy drugs?
Sheesh, times are bad.
Roidy
For a great money people, an operating telephone/cell phone is the Drug of Choice.
Co:
phone and DSL….Not the drug of choice but the only way to make any money to survive and not wind up in my moms basement. It’s a critical necessity.
phone and DSL…It’s a critical necessity ??
I could not function (work wise) without it…
HUH? Paid off a phone bill with a stolen card? That was either the stupidest criminal ever. Or the Walmart flu lady has no idea what she is talking about. The thief might as well have left his/her name and address with the victim.
Happened to me 2 years ago; cashier swiped my debit card info. Long story. Upshot is she paid off a 300 $$ cell phone charge, ordered $200 in flowers (sent to relative’s funeral) and (chutzpaw of chutzpaw) had local pizza shop deliver 10 pizzas for her kid’s birthday party. Police took info, including address from pizza shop manager, but, never did a thing.
Did you press charges? I can understand how police rarely can solve petty crimes, but if they have her name and address and the crime is documented they still did nothing? She got off scott free?
Carlos4
I looked it up once and it is “chutzpah”. IIRC, it’s orgin like many yiddish words is German.
“We’ve traced this stolen CC payment to your phone and address.”
“Stolen? Somebody did pay my phone bill, which was very weird to say the least, but that’s all I know.”
Did you press charges? I can understand how police rarely can solve petty crimes, but if they have her name and address and the crime is documented they still did nothing? She got off scott free?
I imagine this would be up to the bank. He probably got repaid the stolen money and they became the victim.
Um, if the cops actually cared about pursuing criminals, would paying off a telephone bill be a fairly stupid way to use a stolen CC? That would be make it pretty trivial to identify who stole the card.
prime:
It just proves to me that the only discrimination in our legal system is against those who are severely stoooopid.
I recall one bank stick-up where the robber wrote his “put all your bills in a bag” note on the back of one of his pre-printed deposit slips.
The cops were waiting at his apartment when he arrived home.
“I recall one bank stick-up where the robber wrote his “put all your bills in a bag” note on the back of one of his pre-printed deposit slips.”
OMG, that’s _priceless_!
“I recall one bank stick-up where the robber wrote his “put all your bills in a bag” note on the back of one of his pre-printed deposit slips.”
Without GPS and 2 donut shops in route, they never would have found him.
If they used a stolen credit card to pay a personal bill, I guess the investigators don’t have to go far to figure out who did it.
Doesn’t your driver’s license have your “physical” address on it?
I don’t get it Palmy, doesn’t your DL have a physical address on it?
Ooops, Polly beats me by 2 seconds……..
My DL in Ca has a P O Box on it. It’s legal in some states, although you have to declare a physical address to the DMV.
My DL has only a P.O. Box on it. But the P.O. Box requires a physical address. This is AZ. Some places may not have a physical address.
Just make up a fake address, but make it funny. “12…0…..4….3…2….1 South Street…. Court…. Avenue”
Elevation of West Yel lowstone is 6666 ft. just playing with numbers.
Hats off palmy!
Voting with your feet is all some people understand…corporations (i think walmart pays REAL close attention to abandoned shopping carts near the checkouts, talk about lost sales!), countries, employer, partner- biz or personal
i usually do it if the checkout line exceeds my threshold of tolerance
Dude. A check? In 2010?
I don’t get this. My mother in law is the same way. She writes checks for everything. I was at McDonald’s with her. She wrote a check for $4.XX. She doesn’t even have an ATM.
It is so annoying to be stuck behind someone writing a check. Fumble for the checkbook. Write it out. Give licence to clerk. Clerk writes down licence on check. Fumble to put checkbook back in purse. All that vs. swiping an ATM card. And for most merchants if the amount is small, usually under $20, there is no signature or pin required.
And yet so many people still insist on making life more difficult for themselves and those around them.
Being the “yenta” I am, I trained my mother to pay cash for everything, and made her break the check writing insanity, other than her monthly bills. Now she lives by KISS.
Why don’t you criticize your mother-in-law to her face instead of Palmy anonymously, Eddie? It has never occurred to me to ask my 80-year-old mother to stop writing checks, since that is her comfort zone. And you’ll be just as supercilious, if not worse, when you’re old, Eddie.
Lots of people’s comfort zone was a horse and buggy. We move on as technology improves. Well, most of us do anyway. Luckily for us merchants are catching on as well. I see more and more places that have “WE DO NOT ACCEPT CHECKS” signs prominently displayed.
And FWIW I have made my feelings clear to the MIL as well. But she’s an aging California hippie so she’s bound to act like an idiot.
I wonder what she calls you, Eddie.
The bedbug thing has about killed thrift shops for me. I might buy an ashtray, or maybe an all wood table or chair (maybe), but beyond that it’s not worth the risk of infesting my house. And I used to be all about second hand furniture (fortunately I’ve already bought my fill- now I must replace anything new by chucking something old.) I was never that big on second-hand colthes- they kind of gross me out no matter how clean they are. (And all the clothes I find that I like are from back when every guy must have been 5′6″ and 140 pounds.)
How large is an alpha sloth?
I’m with you on the second hand clothes, alpha. I grew up wearing them - my mom bought all our clothes from thrift stores. Once I loaned a shirt to a friend and she pitted it out - nothing got rid of the smell. I shop at discount stores like Nordstrom Rack and Marshall’s, but I just can’t wear second hand anymore.
But I’ve bought furniture, a grand piano,appliances, golf clubs and cars on craigslist.
I loved getting hand me down clothes from my older brother and disliked breaking in new clothes when he and Mom’s washing machine had done all the work.
Don’t know why they call it hand me downs cause I never waited for him to hand over anything. In fact, if he had something really cool, nice or comfortable, he’d have to track me down and physically remove my body from it as he was a pack rat and never wanted to cough up anything voluntarily until it was a rag. After my Mom condemned it for him and gave it to me, he’d always try to steal it back even if it was 2 sizes too small for him.
He was old enough to drive to HS and had a once had a real fit when he spied me in the halls with “the shirt” that he was gonna wear on a date that night with his goddess cheerleader “Paige”. He sic’d 1/2 his football team after me and still didn’t get that shirt that day.
I simply abandoned my little sister, got off the my school bus two stops early, walked home through the desert and asked my Mom if she needed any help that evening…for a change.
We boys shared a room, so our family German Shepard slept with me that night and I made sure that the door was solidly jammed wide open.
Hah! Having brothers certainly teaches one survival skills.
Hey blink, how are you ?
Didn’t you move ?
How large is an alpha sloth?
Apparently a lot larger than people were in the 50s and 60s. I had a friend who owned a retro-clothing store, and I don’t think I ever tried on anything from that period that didn’t fit me like children’s clothes. I’m 6′ standing on my rear paws, 190 pounds, which seems about average nowadays, but I must have been a giant back then- could have played linebacker for the Jets, probably, maybe beaten Ali.
And the shoes. Setting aside the fact that I’m not comfortable in someone’s old shoes, no one seems to have been over a size 7 back in the Good Old Days. I’m a 12, which would limit me to clown shoes from that period.
They clearly suffered from inadequate intake of steroids and growth hormones in their meat and dairy products. And not enough corn.
Zackly. At risk of invoking Godwin’s Law, I’m positive Hitler’s minion’s didn’t get off just ’cause they were “doing their job”. And the mini-mousey-whiney CSR girl who was serving you had crossed over the boundary anyways, and was indocrinated into the silly corporate degree. Aka, too far gone to proclaim innocence.
“I’m tired of folks using the excuse of “just doing their job” to make life more difficult or undignified for others, in the service of the corporations. ‘Ef ‘em.”
Me too. Hate it. But they really have no choice. They either do the stupid crap management/marketing/executives wants or they lose their jobs.
So good for you on being mad at the wrong person.
I hate having to give out my phone number at some transactions. I give a phony one. Good to have one handy.
Tell them your address is 123 Eat $hit Drive.
Seriously I don’t want my daughter telling all the pervs in line and behind the counter at the local thrift where she lives.
Alpha:
Correct me if I/m wrong, but weren’t you and many other of the libertarians around here opposed to the government allowing the so-called Ground Zero Mosque?
And you guys yammer about how we don’t need things like environmental and financial regulations, because the threat of people suing will keep the corporations on their best behavior (laughable in itself). But I seem to remember you, packman, and drumminj, early on in the oil spill, cheerleading about how this or that group of people shouldn’t be allowed to sue.
OK, I will correct you. You’re wrong. Please find such posts. I’ll be waiting.
I think we’re getting to the core of your problem alpha (as well as a couple of other folks on this board). You project hyperbolic beliefs on those you disagree with, and then argue vehemently against those strawman beliefs. Once again - somehow you equate libertarianism with anarchy. It just isn’t so. And in my case (can’t speak for drumminj), you equate me with full-on libertarianism - which once again just isn’t so.
It’s not healthy to wake with such seething emotions.
Yeah, well what amounts to basically slander (given the sum total of of how alpha etc. constantly mischaracterize mine and others’ statements) gets me a bit riled. Perhaps he enjoys it.
LOL- I’ve slandered the good name of ‘packman’. See ya in court!
What happened to freedom of speech, ya libertarian? I told you you guys were stingy with the constitutional rights. Keep ‘em all for yourselves.
So the slander comment was kind of dumb. Nonetheless it gets really tiresome to be mischaracterized constantly. Guess it comes with my “devil’s advocate” style - people see you proposing another side to an issue, and somehow assume that you’re all the way at the other end of the spectrum.
I think we need a group hug. Even you fascists.
Ha ha - now you’re just funnin’.
You commies are so goofy.
Allah’s xxx bookstore and dance club, no Burkas allowed on our hot hot hot babes
Careful, dj—you might be asking for a fatwa…
President Obama and Mayor Bloomberg feel that Muslims have every right to build a mosque in the shadow of ground zero. These leaders are absolutely correct. Similarly, we (the non-Muslim majority) have every right to publish caricatures of Muhammad. Even when the subject of front-page news, a particular cartoon of the prophet was not reprinted because no one wished to offend Islamic sensibilities.
The hoopla over the cartoon blew over in a few weeks. An offensive edifice has the potential to last for centuries. Is it asking too much that Muslims return the favor by showing similar respect and not building their mosque in Manhattan?
RICHARD EBERS
Lake Oswego
Sheesh
I just tell everybody that I’m a hardcore Hedonistic Pagan(Socialist) with a 45 cal. and a very bad attitude and everybody pretty much leaves me alone in here.
I pull mikey’s chain from time to time, but then again I’m much better armed than he is…..
WoW
You GOT the Davy Crockett Weapon System !?!
Nah, damnit. I really wanted one. Friggin Feds have no sense of humor.
But with my Type03 FFL I’ve amassed a collection of about 35 center fire military rifles: mostly 8mm Mauser, 7.62 x 54R Mosin-Nagants, and 30-06 Springfields/M1 Garands. A couple of .308 British Lee-Enfields, Swiss and Austrian Manlichers, and a “Lee Harvey Oswald” Carcano round out the collection.
Mikey seems like an interesting type. I’m almost the same but change “pagan” to “atheist” and “socialist” to “capitalist.” Yes I have the .45, and yes I’m hedonistic.
Please don’t disparage my .45
Alpha is a libertarian? You gotta be joking!
Alpha’s posts appear to me to be hard-core liberal.
I’m a libertarian - which to me doesn’t mean that I’m opposed to all government action, merely that there should be a rebuttable presumption against government action.
‘Hard-core liberal’- I like it, makes me sound dangerous. Maybe I’ll spike my hair.
In some ways, I’m one of the most conservative posters here. I want to save our system, that is, the pre-Reagan revolution system, that made us the wealthiest country in history, with almost everyone actually sharing in the wealth.
It’s the radicals who call for the destruction of our system, to be replaced with their idealized dream- that has never existed in history, and doesn’t exist anywhere now. But we’re assured it’ll be great.
In some ways, I’m one of the most conservative posters here. I want to save our system, that is, the pre-Reagan revolution system, that made us the wealthiest country in history, with almost everyone actually sharing in the wealth.
It’s the radicals who call for the destruction of our system, to be replaced with their idealized dream- that has never existed in history, and doesn’t exist anywhere now. But we’re assured it’ll be great.
Well said.
Well the definition of “conservatism” is someone who wants to conserve. Someone who does not want change. Someone who hates the dynamism of a free society.
The thing America has had for decades is big government. Most people in the two largest political parties want to conserve that big government. By that definition, Obama is a conservative. So are Pat Buchanon, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Barney Frank, etc.
Most people are too blind by their own ideology to not realize this.
By this definition, I’m as liberal as they come - Frederik Bastiat style. I’m a dynamist. The conservatives are stasists.
the pre-Reagan revolution system, that made us the wealthiest country in history
Please provide details as to what these changes would be.
(Noting that we were already the wealthiest country in the world by 1900 - so any changes would have to exclude things that were introduced in the meantime - like the graduated income tax, for instance.)
GDP in 1980 $2.77 Trillion
GDP in 1992 $6.29 Trillion
But you’re right the Reagan revolution was a failure.
Not sure if I buy the GDP number. Didn’t they change how they calculate GDP along the way they did for unemployment?
Noting that we were already the wealthiest country in the world by 1900
Richer than Great Britain by 1900? Maybe…I’d have to see some evidence though. And how many hands held that wealth? That’s an important point about the postWW2 period. We had a huge, prosperous middle class.
But you’re right the Reagan revolution was a failure.
Reagan’s Keynesian spending spree indeed kicked the economy into high gear, but he left it up to the next guys to do the hard part, pay it back:
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
Reagan’s Keynesian
This is probably the first time I am agreeing with you. Still can’t believe that so many so called conservatives look at Reagan as the paragon of fiscal conservatism.
Agree somewhat. Reagen definitely practiced Keynesian spending technically, in the form of deficit spending. However it wasn’t so much to get us out of our economic problems (the non-Keynesian tax cuts were more for that) as it was to take down the Soviet Union, by simply out-spending them in the arms race. It worked (at least by most people’s views). Whether or not it was worth it is left up to the reader.
(But then - we had this discussion the other day.)
I recall Ronald Reagan always mentioned “we’re not cutting spending. We are cutting the rate of increase in spending.” I appreciated his honesty, and he mentioned that same statement several timed during his two terms. However I was puzzled at that remark - how can a so called fiscal conservative be proud to merely slow us down on the road to serfdom instead of reverse course?
Has anyone ever produced any evidence that Reagan et al had a plan to spend the USSR into oblivion? I think it happened unexpectedly and then they decided to claim they planned it. In fact, I believe the CIA admits they were blindsided by it. But it does make a nice tale.
To be honest - I’m not sure. I’ve heard people state that that’s why the S.U. fell, and it makes sense (maybe), but no I haven’t actually heard that it was planned. But then again - if it was planned, would they really say so? Seems like sheer fear is a stronger tactic, in terms of garnering public support.
I read that the S.U. had the volume - sheer numbers - of hardware, but couldn’t shoot straight, while the U.S. had accuracy. The S.U. could not keep up.
OK, I will correct you. You’re wrong. Please find such posts. I’ll be waiting.
I said the same in yesterday’s thread. I’m sure alpha has the integrity to admit he/she is wrong and apologize.
Doohhh! I slept late and missed my homework assignment! (And packman posting on a weekend? I must have really touched a nerve. I don’t even think the Mises Inst. pays overtime! :wink:)
Alright, I’m on it p-man. But it may take a few days, I’ve got ribs on my backyard smoker, and various other weekend chores I’m trying to forget about.
I’ll help you out a bit:
But wait… those seem counter to your argument. Maybe not really helping you out.
I don’t even think the Mises Inst. pays overtime! :wink:)
Mises Institute? You’re not supposed to know about them.
You should not under any circumstances visit their website. Do not read their blog or order any of the books or publications they offer. Never do this.
You will learn way too much, and then I will not be able to show off how much smarter I am than you. This would take away all the fun of posting here. Forget they exist and erase this message from your brain.
Ludwig von Mises:
(to Ayn Rand) “But Atlas Shrugged is not merely a novel. It is also (or may I say: first of all) a cogent analysis of the evils that plague our society, a substantiated rejection of the ideology of our self-styled “intellectuals” and a pitiless unmasking of the insincerity of the policies adopted by governments and political parties. It is a devastating exposure of the “moral cannibals,” the “gigolos of science” and of the “academic prattle” of the makers of the “anti-industrial revolution.” You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you.”
Yup, and of those “betters” and their Grand Ideas, their Thoughts and Times, the kings, emperors, dictators, generals, financiers and petty tyrants who all had that EZ sort of arrogance, they too were expendable in the great scheme of Things and turned into dust, nearly all but forgotten by the masses…just like you.
So you see Ludwig, it all works out in the End !
Forget they exist and erase this message from your brain.
The what, now? Do what? What were we talking about?
No your enemy, and no yourself, and you will never commit a grammatical error, not in a million posts. (Unless ya been drinkin’.)
You will learn way too much
No - some people will not learn, regardless of how the truth is put before them.
Yet some people (e.g. moi) foolishly continue to try.
I admire e.g. moi’s spirit. Is he a frenchman?
Nah.
We’re both apparently quite hard-headed. FWIW - I wouldn’t mind buying you a beer sometime - I’m sure we could find some common ground on the tap list.
(Unless you’re in AA or something)
Oh yeah I drink beer. Sipping on my first batch of pumpkin ale of the season right now. Feels like Fall.
I’ll happily toss one back with you one day. Especially if you’re buying- that’s how we liberals like it. Sharing the wealth and all.
I’ve been accused of hyperbole, but I choose to call it “pointing out the logical result.”
If the current state of the Nation tells us anything, it’s that if there are any loopholes or ambiguity in the law, some people will drive a truck thru them. Then, if they have enough money, can hire criminal and bankruptcy attorneys to avoid paying the price.
We subsidize failure and criminal activity, so we get more of it. I’ve seen up close some of the stupid/criminal things that the idiots in this country do, and the thought of giving them an environment with fewer laws/regulations to operate under scares the crap out of me.
So you believe it’s possible to have an environment with zero loopholes?
I don’t.
Even communism proved to have mega-loopholes - just look at the huge black market systems they had there even during the tightest communist control.
Never, ever forget that “loopholes” includes things that are not prosecuted - including illegal things. We could close every possible legal “loophole” in the system, and it would still be massively corrupt- even moreso in fact, due to people simply doing illegal things and not being prosecuted.
drumminj:
Let me ask a question…
Should it be illegal for an individual to discriminate on this business? So anyone who chooses not to go into a restaurant because it’s owned by asians, or keep money in a bank because it’s owned by rich white guys is breaking the law?
If not, why should the law be different for individuals who are providing the service rather than those who are buying it?
I think the main difference is that:
- In the case of a business, the exchange is a service for money
- In the case of a customer, the exchange is money for a service
Money is ubiquitous. As a business owner, I can get money from anyone in the community - literally every person. However as a customer I can’t get any service from anyone. If I want a banking service, I can’t go to any person in the town and ask for such service - I’m limited to the few people that actually offer that service.
In many cases the choices are down to just one or two (e.g. banks, or dry cleaners, or schools, whatever). If those entities (or sometimes just one entity) discriminate - then I have no opportunity at all to receive that service without actually moving somewhere else - IMO an undue burden.
However the reverse isn’t true. If a given customer refuses to go to a bank because it’s owned by white guys, then usually there are thousands of other customers in that community that that bank can serve.
If not, why should the law be different for individuals who are providing the service rather than those who are buying it?
I think you a beginning to see the fallacy of “discrimination” in a “free society”, and the ridiculous court cases that have evolved promoting “tolerance”, as they call it.
In a Free society, you have the right to “discriminate” against any and all persons whom you so choose, for whatever reason, at any time.
That is what free people do. It doesn’t matter if the reason is race, religion, age, color, attitudes, philosophy or foot size. It’s your right.
That includes and should include all business relations. If you post a sign on the door that says “white only”, it should be your right to do business with white people. If you want to start a club exclusively for men, then you should also be free to do so.
What has transpired with the so-called “civil rights” movement has been a mandate by Courts that these things are “harmful” to minority groups and therefore need to be monitored and stopped by government. In other words, if a bunch of white guys start a club, then women and blacks don’t have the same “opportunities” as the guys in the club. It’s perverted logic, and forces the club members to allow in members they would rather exclude, as free individuals.
As of the business side of this, the problem arises when you are doing a “public service” or providing services for the “public”. This is where the government can intrude in an area that should be left to individuals. They simply say they will not issue you a license to operate a business that is “discriminatory”. Most all businesses require a license, even if it is a license to operate a store. If you are open to the “public”, then you must allow anyone to enter and receive whatever product or service you provide.
In a free society, you should also be allowed to do business with a particular group of people based on whatever standards you wish, but this would require exclusionary licensing, or removal of all licensing altogether. I would be in favor of such, but it is unlikely that the Courts would allow this to occur. They have spent too much time ruling that any “exclusion” is unconstitutional, though I can’t find any such language anywhere in the constitution. You could possibly try to stretch equal treatment under the law to equal service by a service station attendant, but that’s really pushing it.
The Court system doesn’t have any trouble finding such stupid reasoning. After all, we’ve gone from equal treatment under the law to “equal”. We are not equal. We are simply to be treated equally under questions of law, as it should be. The over-reach has up-ended our natural tendencies in civil order, and led to your confusion as to how people should interact in a business relationship.
It’s an interesting question. Glad you thought to post it.
I think the main differentiating thing is a “club” vs. a “business”. The latter’s purpose is to provide a service to the public and generate a profit. The former is a social service, with no implication of providing a service to the public or intention of profit. Thus I think it’s OK to discriminate in the former, not so the latter.
The City of Mesa AZ enacted a no smoking law that extended to bars. One of the bars decided to become a members only private club, where anti-smoking laws would not apply. I forget the details, but you could become a club member if you paid something like a $2.00 membership fee. Oh, and all new members got a coupon for $2.00 off their first purchase.
Packman -
Are you saying that those who provide services to the public are not interested in generating a profit? I disagree wholeheartedly. While not as interested in generating a monetary profit as is a corporation, social services providers are very much interested in profit.
That profit could be in the form of the body politic, glory or in punishment of individuals who strive for monetary profit.
To say that “do-gooders” aren’t interested in profit is to be naive. They, too, need someone else to be the bagholder in order to profit. That’s why everything bad in the world is the fault of corporations and the “military complex”.
Are you saying that those who provide services to the public are not interested in generating a profit?
No - pretty sure I said the opposite.
Perhaps you did say that and I misread it.
Also - I needed to be more clear in the post above. By “service”, I am referring to “social service” specifically. I am not referring to services provided by private industry.
I label all services and manufactured goods offered by the private sector as “products”. “Services” are the domain of tax-supported public policy items in my mind’s eye. We pay for those whether or not we want to consume them as individuals.
That said, my argument is that what I consider to be “services” are driven by the need for profit every bit as much as “products” produced by the private sector.
What one sector considers profit (monetary) and the other considers profit (self-aggrandisement and control of society) are different. But both are profit-driven just the same. Intensely so.
I always find this an interesting question. I can discriminate on whatever basis I like in my private life, but not in my public life.
And why is it legal to discriminate on one basis and not another? I can discriminate on the basis of whether you are fat, ugly, smell bad, drive a crappy car, or have bad credit. I can’t discriminate on your race, religion, (sometimes) age, or (someplaces) sexual orientation.
My favorite case was an O.C. developer that refused to sell to a man because he was a lawyer. Lawyers the developer argued tended to sue, thus represented a business risk. The lawyer sued. The judge agreed. Lawyers it seems are not a protected class.
Hence the Crescent Bar & Grill’s “no lawyers” policy.
http://www.no-lawyers.com/
I am going to have a few beers with you someday at this place DennisN…
That’s awesome, Dennis! I too would love to join you for a beer there one day…
Hey afterward, let’s reconnoiter at this place:
http://www.quietwoman.com/
See their logo on lower bottom right.
Seems to be missing something from that logo (the mouth, maybe?)…
That’s in SoCal….there was a place in San Luis Obispo called “The Silent Woman” with a similar headless logo. I don’t know if it’s still there.
One more, Silent Women Fenway House, in Fennimore, WI. Same logo IIRC.
Boise has a great strip, and DennisN is a fantastic host. Maybe we should plan on a future HBB meetup in Boise?
Count me in Bear…
But you have to pass the test first….
Idaho has a major US Navy submarine base. T/F?
Idaho elected the first Jewish Governor in US history. T/F?
Boise hosts the oldest Jewish congregation west of the Mississippi. T/F?
Idaho’s deepest river canyon is half-again as deep as the Grand Canyon of the Colorado River. T/F?
Idaho’s capitol building is the greenest in the US, being fully heated by geothermal energy. T/F?
Idaho contains the longest undammed river in the lower 48 states. T/F?
Extra credit….
Television was invented by an Idaho farm boy who was inspired to invent raster-scan technology by the plowed furrows on his family farm. T/F?
Arguably the greatest pitcher in baseball history was discovered pitching for the semi-pro team in Weiser, Idaho. T/F?
Stanley, Idaho, gets so cold in the winter that it once recorded a temperature of minus 55 degrees F. T/F?
OK the really hard ones now.
The oldest continuously-inhabited settlement in North and South America - dating back over 10,000 years - is near Fairfield, Idaho. T/F?
The Rothschilds selected the area near Lewiston, Idaho, for their first North American vineyards, ahead of other sites considered in Napa and Sonoma. T/F?
The first city in world history to be powered by atomic energy is Arco, Idaho. T/F?
50 years ago, it was pretty much the opposite. 10-20 years hence, we’ll be moving stridently back in that direction.
Will institutions choose to discriminate based on character or race? Or something else? Maybe we’ll revert back to institutionalized racism. Maybe next time, society will be heavily anti-white and anti-male. Then, three or four decades later, it will all implode again.
Such is the cycle of man.
There is no such cycle. Races have always lived apart, based on geographical location. Nations have been historically based on race. Changes in demographics have normally been by conquering armies. It is only in recent times, where migration is more easily achieved that we have even had to consider these issues.
As for “anti-male”, get real. Males have dominated societies throughout history and still do in most of the world. It is only in western “rich” societies that we have the luxury of letting women have “equality” and preferential treatment. When you are busy eeking out a living, you don’t have time for philosophy.
As for Institutional racism. That is what we have today. anti-male, anti-white, “affirmative action”, government set-asides, minority business benefits, EEOC facism, etc.
The programs to promote “minorities” are endless.
There is racism in my workplace. Asian males against white males who have an affinity for asian females. The asian males where I work get along well with me because I do not chum around with the beautiful young asian female at work that I secretly have the hots for. I’m rewarded for my professionalism by keeping my blinders on. I saw how a white male got hounded out of the place a few years ago because he was picking up on a single asian female there. I heard all the stories from both sides. And it scared me off. One of the asian males was even called into HR. But he’s now too high up for them to ever do anything about this racism.
When you read the pronouncements from Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, etc. in the last couple of years regarding the president, they appear to be attempting to alter the consensus that racism is a bad thing. It should be interesting to see how that develops.
You can Google up that whole topic of the Asian males and there whole reaction to the white guy/Asian woman phenomenon in CA and it’s just fascinating. They never realize that their big problem is that the fact that white women aren’t interested in Asian guys, so they want the Asian women to be racists and not get involved with white guys. Considering the fact that it’s a simple matter of numbers, you would think that these engineers would understand.
What’s interesting about your story is that these Asian guys would actually discriminate in the workplace. Your company’s HR department probably had a seminar explaining how that was illegal, but they don’t care. The other interesting thing about HR people is that they tell you that you can talk to them is you fell that that you’re a victim of discrimination, but if the guilty party is high up enough on the org. chart, HR won’t do much for you.
MM, you told it exactly how it is. Mostly asian males in my company, and yes, some have won top engineer of the year awards. In fact, a group of five are related. In most other companies, nepotism would be discouraged. That’s another thing in the culture. They seriously do have a protection racket going. I basically cannot tell anyone I know about it. In fact, it’s known. Once you get the engineer of the year award, you are immune to most transgressions.
But I do like my pay. Only payroll, HR, and the software manager (part of the Asian nepotist racist gang) know how much my company is charging them (the client) per hour. They don’t know my hourly rate. But I’m earning far more than they are. So I stay humble, continue to park my Toyota economy car next to their Lexus and Infiniti cars, and do my job
Maybe the cute gal will pick up on me sometime. She’s starting to loosen up with me. for the first time.
Well, nepotism exists in every culture. Bushes, Kennedys and let’s not forget the good ol’ boys club and the frat brothers. The latter two may have been the most destructive forces in corporations IMO. I am assuming by Asian you meant people from orient, but the Asian indians also tend to hang out in a pack and hire their kinds most of the time.
Also there’s a significant difference between the asians who were born and raised here and the FOB’s. In general, the latter is more polite, wants to fit in while the former has a chip in his/her shoulders for no reason.
Butters, I’ve seen mostly the other way around. The first generation ones from Vietnam are the ones you should watch out for. Some of these I work with are very decent and I would certainly do a linkedin recommendation for one of them. But most of the ones are manipulative and depend on their network to keep their job. The ones who have been Americanized several generations are by far usually decent people. Only one third generation of Japanese descent I know of is a closet racist.
30 years ago, when I was a cute half-Asian female, I was creeped out by older white guys who had a thing for younger Asian women. They had this look on their faces like I was the answer to some kind of fantasy. Luckily I was married by 22 so it was very easy to deal with. But it was creepy.
I don’t know if there are any young Asian women on this blog who can comment. Mostly middle-aged white guys, I think. Several of whom prefer their women headless.
Interesting topic. I’m a white dude with an Asian wife and have been dumped on a few times for it. Interestingly, never by whites or blacks, just Asians. Viets seem to be the most accepting, I attribute it to the French colonialism. Chinese BY FAR the least. Type in “White guy asian girl” in a youtube search for all the haters, it is truly insane. There are some great parodies on youtube as well about the subject.
Interesting post REHobbyist, but the Asian gal I’m interested in dates older white men. I suppose that’s not creepy to her. I’m told that her ex BF had white hair. I still have brown hair and can pass for 5 years older than her - good genes.
‘Mostly middle-aged white guys, I think. Several of whom prefer their women headless’
‘Rio, are you a man/dude? I thought you were a woman! Of course, I used to think that oxide was a man so I have a poor track record’
Re: Not headless but Brainless…LOL who me…not me…my mom would kill me if I brought home an airhead.
Mostly middle-aged white guys, I think. Several of whom prefer their women headless.
Lawyers it seems are not a protected class.
And that’s the root of the whole thing - the concept of a “protected class”.
But you have hit upon the entire problem with the court based decisions. It is not possible to know the reason that you have decided to “discriminate” for or against another individual.
IF the person you choose not to engage in business is fat, ugly, smelly and black, then you will be sued.
The reason. They are black.
The reason you did not want them in your establishment was they were fat, ugly and smelly. Black had not entered your mind.
You, however, are guilty of Racism and discrimination against this black person.
The only way governments can determine any alleged illegal “discrimination” is by looking at race, gender, age, religion, etc.
The fact that these single determining factors are “visible” is the ONLY telling point of alleged illegal behaviour.
But what about their “character”?? What if they are scumbags??
What if they have poor hygiene?? What about bad habits??
None of this is allowed as a defense. Therefore, society decays.
I was at a bar full of white folks listening to rock music last week. In walked a sloppily dressed black man with pants hanging off his butt, screwed on crooked hat, gold teeth, and disheveled appearance. Attracted, not by the music, but by a room full of attractive white girls, he headed to the dance floor and tried to make his moves. Most of us were annoyed. Unable to attract any of the “ladies”, he eventually left. In a civil society, this man would not have been allowed in the door. He did not belong in this mix of individuals. However, it was a public bar. He was allowed in because no “dress code” was listed, and he was black. A lawsuit on 2 legs. The fact that he was a pig would not make any difference.
So much of “content of his character”. It’s all about the color of their skin.
Maybe He was a PLANT by the Acorn crowd??
I think the main difference is that:
- In the case of a business, the exchange is a service for money
- In the case of a customer, the exchange is money for a service
Point taken. But the root of this discussion is rights that an individual has, correct? So essentially you’re saying the same individual has different rights of association depending on whether they’re providing the service or buying the service?
I just can’t see that kind of distinction. Don’t get me wrong - I understand your point, and can see the argument. I have the right to associate with whom I choose. That doesn’t mean the government has to make everyone I may want to associate with available to me (if so, I’d be having dinner with Natalie Portman tonight!). They just can’t stop me from association with whom I choose (and presumably not force me to associate with those I choose not to).
I see this as a case where one can argue the rights of two people are at odds with each other. I see the government as actively infringing on the rights of an individual and forcing them to consummate a transaction as the greater wrong.
And here’s a hypothetical. A black business owner opens a business in a white community. All the citizens of the community refuse to patronize the business because the owner is black. Is this any different than the business refusing to sell to an individual customer? In this case, should the government compel at least some subset of the population to patronize the business?
BTW, I really like the way packman explained this…
“I see the government as actively infringing on the rights of an individual and forcing them to consummate a transaction as the greater wrong.”
Whenever the rights of two individuals is in conflict, the government has to decide between them. I think a reasonable standard to apply is the less/greater _harm_.
IMHO, clearly an individual who is unable to obtain a needed service (e.g. housing, medical care, etc) in their community is harmed more than a businessman who is not allowed to not provide a needed service.
The distinction (under the law) is that the business is holding itself out as a provider of services to the public. You can’t discriminate against protected classes when you do that. If you advertise, put up a sign, allow most people in the door if they can pay for what they want, etc. you are holding yourself out as a provider of services to the public. In addition, it isn’t that hard to figure out when a business is discriminating that way. Since such a business, by definition, has lots of interactions with the public, you can see a pattern of them refusing service to people with dark skin or Jewish last names or who can’t provide a US passport.
The categories are limited because businesses should be able to discriminate against people who don’t dress apprpriately for the establishment or who are drunk or who verbally abuse other patrons or any number of other reasons including profession. If a business doesn’t discriminate against those people because they are afraid of being sued, they are giving in to fear. That isn’t the law’s problem.
An individual person spending their own money isn’t holding herself out as providing a service to the public. She can discriminate however she likes.
The distinction (under the law) is that the business is holding itself out as a provider of services to the public.
Thanks, Polly. I understand that’s the justification provided in the law…
I think it’s worth discussing WHY that’s different. On a philisophical/moral level. The laws are what they are, but that doesn’t make them right or just (not saying you’ve expressed an opinion either way).
The origin of the doctrine is solidly the commerce clause. The Supremes acknowledged that people who couldn’t get a meal at a restaurant or rent a room in a hotel (or at least couldn’t tell where they would be allowed to do these things) could not participate in interstate commerce. These were the establishments that held themselves out as providing services to the public that were first held to be not allowed to discriminate. I couldn’t give you a summary of the expansion of the doctrine and the laws that added to it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if you could find it laid out in Wikipedia.
Polly: I have a question about the term “protected class”. Don’t the civil rights laws typically ban discrimination on the basis of race, creed, color, and gender, etc. without mentioning specific groups by name? I always thought that the idea that blacks or women are members of protected classes is something that was invented by other groups involved in advising companies how to stay legal, and not something established by law.
No. As far as I know it is right there in the law - the judicial opinions, of course, but that is part of the law. I have really never practised in this area, so my knowledge is limited, but I believe that in order for discrimination against a protected class to be legal, there has to be a compelling government interest in the discrimination. This is called strict scrutiny.
That is why the new ruling about gay marriage was such a big deal. If the judge had used the strict scrutiny doctrine then he would have had to explain why gay people should be a protected class when I don’t know of any other instance in which that has been held on the federal level (state constitutions are a different matter). The judge didn’t do that. He used an ordinary level of scrutiny (basic equal protection level) and put forth findings of fact that indicated the state had no interest at all in refusing to allow it.
Rio:
But there’s no way that median wages are the same now as they were in 1972, not even close.
No way Jose?
Would love to see some data backing up that statement.
With like numbers?
http://extremeinequality.org/?page_id=8
(bottom of page)
USA Average hourly earnings:
1964 $17.54
1972 $20.06
1979 $18.76
1993 $16.82
2008 $18.52
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics, Current Employment Statistics, Average Hourly Earnings in 1982 Dollars. Converted to 2008 dollars with CPI-U.
Data compiled by
Chris Hartman, Tower Street Research
http://www.towerstreet.net
http://extremeinequality.org/?page_id=8
Um… apparently you missed the bolded part.
“Stagnant” means unchanging. If they’re roughly keeping up with inflation (which is up 411% since 1972), then they’re not unchanging, are they?
What i find amazing about this little discussion is that people can look at this, and see the FED is continually destroying the value of their money, and yet, Ron Paul, who has fought the FED for 30 years and tried to END THE FED, is looked upon as a kook. At least, he is presented that way by the “media”.
The current Bernanke formula for “growth” is 2% annual inflation. He hopes to flood the country with enough “new money” to achieve this “target” goal. So far, he isn’t winning, according to government statistics. If he does get there, then we must constantly be making more money to stay even. Our savings are being eaten away by government thievery, and yet, no one really cares.
I guess Americans are resigned to the fact that they will need to work as drones all of their lives, as none can save for any type of retirement or make any long-term plans. Their savings will only be eaten away. So, the best plan is a GOVERNMENT Union job with guaranteed inflation adjustments, early retirement, 100% annual salary at retirement with 20 years of service. All on the backs of the taxpayers…….and “free” healthcare. Is this a great country, or what?
“So, the best plan is a GOVERNMENT Union job with guaranteed inflation adjustments, early retirement, 100% annual salary at retirement with 20 years of service.”
It’s a gig everyone should consider. I know I would if I were unemployed.
Speaking of…… For about 10 years now, we’ve operated under the presumption that we’ll both lose our jobs tomorrow. This has worked well for us… no debt, reasonable pile of $$$ in the bank, retained mobility etc. For me, the expectations from my current employer are next to none…. no salary increases, no consideration, etc. My only expectation is “Thank you Mr. Exeter, it’s been nice”. Yet, I’ve gotten 3.5% salary increases every years since 2007 and yesterday I got a $10k profit sharing check in the mail.
Someday the federal money tap will be shutdown for good but for now I’m celebrating the fact that salary increases and profit sharing is rolling in, even in this environment.
I interpreted Rio to mean that median incomes had not changed in the US in the last 30 years. But the top income earners have had impressive gains.
The study below looks at CEO compensation, which underwent huge increases starting in the mid-1970s. They theorize why it is that during the time period from 1975 to 2001, CEO median pay increased 8% per year (230% during the final time period.) It is also noted that for the past 8 years or so, CEO compensation has not increased (of course, their average compensation is several millions per year.)
Most of us would agree that it’s not fair that the top earners’ pay grows while the average worker’s is stagnant. The game is rigged.
http://www.stanford.edu/~djenter/CEO_Compensation_Survey_March_2010.pdf
I’m not much inclined to defend CEO pay, which I personally believe has reached nauseating levels.
But I do feel compelled to point out that the pay packages of CEOs that make these headlines today are typically those of CEOs running running much larger companies than existing back in the ’60s. With a few more levels between the top and bottom of a company, one should expect more pay disparity.
Converted to 2008 dollars with CPI-U.
Well, that’s problem number one right there. Who here thinks the CPI reflects actual inflation?
Well, who wouldn’t believe the reported numbers? Aren’t the determined by FED economists, so that the FED knows how many more dollars to print, or electronically post to bank balance sheets?
Cowardly Lion: “I do believe in spooks. I do believe in spooks. I do. I do. I do believe……………………”
“Stagnant” means unchanging. If they’re roughly keeping up with inflation (which is up 411% since 1972), then they’re not unchanging, are they?
LOL,
Give me a break Packman. That’s a pitiful comeback. You know darn well inflation is included in all of these types of comparisons. Any that you’ve ever made too. This coming from a stat guy?
You were wrong. Admit it and move on.
Dude - you were the one that made this statement, and I quote:
“Median wages have remained stagnant since about 1972 while costs of living have risen sharply”
That statement clearly implies that you were referring to non-inflation-adjusted wages, does it not? That’s exactly the statement I was responding to.
P.S. ecofeco posted this chart yesterday (apparently intending to promote your point; if so it backfired) - I think it clearly shows that you’re wrong. Not only have median wages been continually rising, but they even been rising relative to inflation over the past 40+ years.
That statement clearly implies that you were referring to non-inflation-adjusted wages, does it not? That’s exactly the statement I was responding to.
Packman, I do not believe you for a second. Only an idiot would even attempt to discuss wages over a 38 year period. I am not and idiot and neither are you.
You’ve been proven wrong by me and now you’re doing the weasel. Keep dancing.
Only an idiot would even attempt to discuss wages over a 38 year period.
Sorry, I was laughing so hard, I forgot to finish my sentence.
Only an idiot would even attempt to discuss wages over a 38 year period ON A NON-INFLATION ADJUSTED BASIS. I am not and idiot and neither are you.
I am not and idiot Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
(ME)
Hey, that’s kind of funny!
Cripes man. The statement above is exactly what I was responding to. I can’t help the fact that you misspoke - I was just disagreeing with it.
So no - I’m not wrong.
If you want to define “stagnant” as “keeping even with inflation”, then fine. However I’d like to see your theory as to why average wages over should exceed inflation. It doesn’t make sense for it to. Where would the money be coming from?
I don’t have time now, but will have to put out some rebuttal stats. The dailykos chart below actually does show wages beating inflation. I’m not sure how that makes the case that they’ve gone down relative to inflation.
1964:
AHETPI 2.50
CPIAUCNS: 30.90
2010:
AHETPI 18.90 (up 656%)
CPIAUCNS: 216.69 (up (up 601%)
So again - wages up higher than inflation.
Tell me again why I’m wrong, even if we cast aside you snafu?
Tell me again why I’m wrong, Packman
Why? You can go back and read. And would it matter?
I’ve proved you were wrong with BLS Stats.
I’ve proved you were wrong with St. Louis Fed stats.
I’ve proved you were wrong with US Census Stats.
I’ve proved you were wrong using Dept. of Labor Stats.
I can prove you’re wrong with dozens of articles and studies.
I can illustrate you’re wrong with a million broken-hearted middle-class busted dreams.
You are wrong that average real wages have risen for the average American over the past 40 years. You should move on.
Also you should think twice before saying someone’s statement is “BS”. It can backfire as it did.
And you are also wrong to think defending your wrongs will enhance your credibility.
Packman, I do not believe you for a second. Only an idiot would even attempt to discuss wages over a 38 year period. I am not and idiot and neither are you.
Rio - I apologize, because that’s the way I did take your statement, and you’re right I shouldn’t have. I was wondering, since I knew you seemed to be an intelligent person. Knowing you live in Brasil, but not knowing for how long, I didn’t know if you were really aware of just how much inflation we’ve had over the past few decades.
Usually the term “stagnant” doesn’t mean relative to inflation - e.g. the word “stagflation” is used to describe an economy that’s stagnant in nominal terms, not in inflation-adjusted terms.
Rio - I apologize, because that’s the way I did take your statement, and you’re right I shouldn’t have.
Thank you for that. I can understand that and accept.
I posted a post before I read this that hasn’t come up yet. It’s not bad but it is before I read this.
Rio, are you a man/dude? I thought you were a woman! Of course, I used to think that oxide was a man so I have a poor track record.
Rio, are you a man/dude? I thought you were a woman!
Hey! First of all, thank you for the inferred compliment.
I’m wondering why did you think I was a gal?
And what has happened that would make you doubt that now?
And you are also wrong to think defending your wrongs will enhance your credibility.
Snoopy: Ain’t that the truth “ChartBoy™”!
Lucy (pounding gravel) : “Order-in-the-court! Order-in-the-court! Order-in-the-court!
This case deals with,…blah,blah, the party of the 1st party claims that…blah,blah, blah,…the party of the 3rd party says that…oh finally, here it is, the case:
The Defendant refered to as “ChartBoy” AKA, (packman) who is represented by his “officer-of-the-court” Sally, makes the following claim:
“So the all time record in home prices, when adjusted for inflation, was hit June of 2000 - five months before Cheney-Shrub were elected.”
The Planitiff (Hwy50) who is represented by his “officer-of-the-court” Snoopy, makes the following counter claim: “You Lie!”
Judge Lucy: “Does the Defendant have any evidence to support his claim”?
After the Judges Chambers meeting:
Woodstock: “He said that ChartBoy is a… #!*%#! & a syphilis lipped puss pocked slimy toad!”
Snoopy: BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! (fpss™)
Hwy 50: BWAHAHAHicHAHAHicHAHAHAHAHicHAHAHic* (DennisN™)
Not only have median wages been continually rising, but they even been rising relative to inflation over the past 40+ years. Packman
Wrong: I proved you wrong yesterday with BLS stats.
Today I’ll prove you wrong with St Louis Fed Stats:
Check out the St Louis Fed Chart in this article
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/5/21/733001/-No-Sustained-Economic-Growth-without-Real-Wage-Growth
As you can easily see, real wage growth essentially stagnated in 1974, and ever since the Reagan revolution, almost all growth from productivity has been vacuumed up by the very top of the income scale.
Wage growth, currently running at about 3% YoY and declining quickly, stinks. In fact, only twice in the last 45 years has there been real wage growth (i.e., in excess of the inflation rate)for more than a year or so: once, in the post-war economic golden era of the 1960s and early 1970s; and again during the tech boom of the 1990s. Here is a graph showing that entire 45 years history (as long as the series exists), comparing wages (in orange) with CPI inflation (in blue):
And for the average Joe:
Average weekly earnings, nonsupervisory workers on non-farm payrolls from 1964-2009 Table B-2 using the Department of Labor Statistics’ inflation calculator to bring average weekly earnings to 2009 US dollars:
1972 $744.79
2009 $616.93
http://thedepression.org.au/?p=1802
Not only have median wages been continually rising, but they even been rising relative to inflation over the past 40+ years. Packman
Good thing you don’t write for this magazine.
Real average earnings have not increased in 50 years BusinessInsider dot com
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#real-average-earnings-have-not-increased-in-50-years-6
Not only have median wages been continually rising, but they even been rising relative to inflation over the past 40+ years. Packman
Wrong: And I’ve proved it with BLS and St. Louis Fed stats. And here’s US Census figures on median men’s income.
39 years of stagnant income
http://www.halfsigma.com/2009/11/39-years-of-stagnant-wages.html
According to the U.S. Census historical income tables, P-2, the median income for males, all races, in 2008 dollars:
1969: $33,380
2008: $33,161
REAL WAGES
http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+and+Benefits:+Real+Wages+%281964-2004%29
1964-2004
Average Weekly Earnings (in 1982 constant dollars)
For all private nonfarm workers
1964 $302.52
2004 $277.57
Yah. Packman is way off on this one. Hope he apologizes
The fact that inflation is grossly understated since 1980, who cares what the BLS states as fact.
They are unchanging then… in every way that matters.
They are unchanged, controlled for the intrinsic devaluation of the currency in all matters.
Or, earnings are unchanged in practical context.
Jeez. Shlubs
They are unchanging then… in every way that matters. Jeez. Shlubs
OK, but that just made me think of something:
Sung to Bob Dylan’s The Times They are a Changing.
Come gather ’round sheeple
Wherever you roam
And admit that your wages
They never have grown
And accept it buffoon
That you really got boned
If your time to you
Is worth savin’
Then you better start swingin’
Or you’ll sink like a stone
For the wages they are un-changin’.
(And this verse unchanged)
Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don’t stand in the doorway
Don’t block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There’s a battle outside ragin’.
It’ll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin’.
BWAHAHAHicHAHAHicHAHAHAHAHicHAHAHic* (DennisN™)
Here’s lookin’ at ya Rio kid aka,…The Brazilian TruthSlayer!
Owner of Riviera Beach company sentenced to 16 months in prison for hiring illegal workers
By Jane Musgrave Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 7:33 p.m. Friday, Sept. 3, 2010
WEST PALM BEACH — The national battle over the government’s inability to stem the tide of illegal immigrants got personal Friday in a federal courtroom.
U.S. District Court Judge Kenneth Marra bristled at the suggestion that the government’s time would be better spent keeping illegal immigrants from entering the country than prosecuting a suburban West Palm Beach man for hiring them. Business people such as Mark David, Marra said, are a big part of the problem.
“One of the reason they come is because people hire them,” Marra said. “If people wouldn’t hire them they wouldn’t be coming in droves.”
And, prosecutors said, the 48-year-old owner of Sun Deck Concrete not only hired illegal immigrants but he paid them more than $2 million under the table, which meant he didn’t pay nearly $480,000 in payroll taxes or worker’s compensation insurance.
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Online
This big time thug, his wife and his gang were into everything from mortgage frauds to murder.
Longtime crime boss could face another life term
By John Diedrich of the Journal Sentinel
Sept. 17, 2010 |(38) Comments
The Preacher’s Mob
The Rise and Fall of a Milwaukee Crime Boss
Go to our special section to read the five-part series on Michael Lock, explore an interactive map and timeline, watch a mini-documentary, listen to audio interrogations and interviews, and more.
Milwaukee crime boss Michael Lock was convicted Friday of running a prostitution ring across the Midwest, adding to a criminal résumé that already included homicide, drug dealing, kidnapping, torture and mortgage fraud.
…Lock, 39, already had been convicted of homicide, kidnapping, drug dealing and mortgage fraud, receiving multiple life terms. He is appealing those convictions, which was partially why prosecutors moved ahead with the prostitution case. Lock will face another life term when sentenced Nov. 22
The also paper ran a series about the motgage frauds, murders and his wife’s daycare ratckets.
What a zoo of criminals and taxpayers will pay for it.
http://tinyurl.com/22lzvaa
No wonder why Obama feels so comfortable in Milwaukee!
“No wonder why Obama feels so comfortable in Milwaukee!”
Yes but Bush, Bud Selig and Tommy Thompson were much more comfortable in the skyboxes in Miller Park with the Milwaukee big wigs.
The all got free Brats, Jim Beam and a purdy GOP balloon.
“…Lock grew up in his grandfather’s church, Unity Gospel House of Prayer, preaching from an early age. His brother Marlon, who is pastor of the church, was in court for part of the trial but was not present for the verdict.”
Insert song: “The only man who could ever love me, was the son of a preacher man…”
Cue Glenbeckinstan and blah,blah,blah, about restoring…
Hwy
LOL on the insert song.
Megan Wheeler: Preacher? Preacher? We love you Preacher… I love you!… Good-bye!
Why isn’t he in jail for 10 years for tax evasion and fraud??
We need to see more of this.
I have a patient who is a “nice lady” rancher in far north California. She has hired illegal workers for many years. One day she asked me if we could provide medical care for one of her employees who has complications of diabetes. He doesn’t have the cash to pay for doctors’ visits and medications, and being illegal, he is ineligible for any indigent services from the county or MediCal. She had the gall to be upset that this situation exists. I wanted to make a citizen’s arrest. But she’s my patient, so I just kept quiet.
I’m sure that she is upset about other illegals, just not hers.
Was she willing to pay for this medical care, or did she want you to provide it for free?
She was not willing to pay - she was trying to refer her employee who had no money and no insurance.
1.2 million Floridians need a job
By Jeff Ostrowski Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Updated: 9:28 p.m. Friday, Sept. 17, 2010
Stymied by the worst job market in decades, Gricel Cruz is making ends meet with a small catering company she runs from her home.
“It has been so hard to find a stable job,” Cruz said.
The West Palm Beach woman lost her management position at Macy’s last year, and she has landed only odd jobs since.
Cruz isn’t alone in her frustration. Nearly 1.2 million Floridians are officially looking for work, and unemployment rates rose in August, the Florida Agency for Workforce Innovation said Friday.
Palm Beach County’s jobless rate climbed to 12.5 percent from 12.3 percent in July. Martin County unemployment increased to 12.6 percent from 12.3 percent. St. Lucie County’s rate rose to 15.6 percent, up from 15.3 percent and fourth-highest among the state’s 67 counties.
The state’s seasonally adjusted jobless rate was 11.7 percent, up from 11.5 percent in July and well above the national average of 9.6 percent. Construction continued to be the state’s worst-performing industry, shedding 5 percent of its jobs over the past year.
OUT OF WORK
- Gary U.S. Bonds
Eight a.m., I’m up and out
at the unemployment agency
All I get is talk
I check the want ads
But there just ain’t nobody hiring
What’s a man supposed to do
When he’s down and out of work
I need a job, I’m out of work
I’m unemployed, I’m out of work
I need a job, I’m out of work
I go to pick my girl up
Her name is Linda Brown
Her Dad invites me in
He tells me to sit down
The small talk that we’re making
Is going pretty smooth
But then he drops a bomb
Son, what do yo do
I’m out of work
I need a job, I’m out of work
I’m unemployed, I’m out of work
I need a job, I’m out of work
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Hey, Mr. President
I know you’ve got the plans
You’re doing all you can now
To help the little man
We’ve got to do our best
To whip that inflation down
Maybe you’ve got a job for me
Just driving you around
These tough times
They’re enough to
Make a man lose his mind
Up there you’ve got a job
But down here below
I’m out of work
I need a job, I’m out of work
I’m unemployed, I’m out of work
I need a job, I’m out of work
If I knew i had up to 99 weeks of UI why would anyone stay?
Plus There are a lot of Macys around the country…someone would hire her.So she will run out her UI and bitterly complain forever
To have gotten the full 99 weeks you would have had to become unemployed 2 years ago.
Become unemployed today and no 99 weeks for you or COBRA subsidy.
Anyone know the details on when you had to become unemployed in order to get the 99wks? After what date could you not qualify?
Regulators close 6 banks in Ga, NJ, Ohio, Wis
By MARCY GORDON, AP
Fri Sep 17, 8:12 pm ET
WASHINGTON – Regulators on Friday shut down three Georgia banks and one each in New Jersey, Ohio and Wisconsin, boosting to 125 the number of U.S. bank failures this year amid the tough economic climate and growing loan defaults.
Georgia, where the meltdown in the real estate market brought an avalanche of soured mortgage loans, has been one of the hardest hit states for bank collapses. The failures of the three banks Friday brought to 14 the number of Georgia banks that have fallen this year. Also high on the list of failure-heavy states are California, Florida and Illinois.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100918/ap_on_bi_ge/us_bank_closures
125/8.5 = 14.7 banks a month. Year end projection:
(125/8.5)*12 = 177 banks down the tubes.
‘Tis a mere flesh wound, given there are thousands of other banks out there.
given there are thousands of other TSTBO banks out there.
TSTBO = guess…
TSTBO means that yes, size does matter.
Roidy
Too Small To Barry O?
Too Screwed To Be Open
An update on my threat to buy a six-unit building. HBB comments were helpful while I was deciding whether to make an offer. The asking price was 97 times gross monthly rent. However, the apartments are rented out with heat included. In Maine. So I subtracted the recent annual fuel-oil cost from the gross annual rent, and offered 100/12 of the result. It happened to be 92% of the asking price. Pretty generous, huh?
The owner countered with 98% of the asking price. I told the agent just to leave my 92% offer on the table for a few weeks. I was quite courteous, saying I wouldn’t argue that the owner’s price was “wrong,” only that I wasn’t prepared to offer more at this time.
It took the owner only six days to change her mind and accept my initial offer.
Next Wednesday comes the building inspector, my last chance to get out of the deal. I say “get out of the deal,” because the acceptance of my initial offer was accompanied by an assertion that the owner would not be inclined to pay for further improvements.
I’m probably softened up by living in Calif half the year. My fellow Calif folks would expect $556K (my offer) to be the price of a central-coast 3×2 SFH with some ocean view; in the Maine case, four of the six units have a broad view of the harbor less than 50 yards away, albeit through telephone wires.
Though many SFH are for rent, this is the only apt. building in town.
One of the difficulties in evaluating your purchase was the lack of detail. I like it a little bit more now than I did before.
Landlording: A Handymanual for Scrupulous Landlords and Landladies Who Do It Themselves
Every Landlord’s Legal Guide
Both of those cover the same material, practical and legal advice…
I haven’t read either one, but we were talking about you behind your back, and what you, the newbie LL might benefit from, and these books came up in conversation.
———
Every Tenant’s Legal Guide… same authors <– you wanna know what the enemy is thinking so maybe read this one too.
Are these the NOLO Press guides?
books..
Search the titles at Amazon.
Hmmm….NOLO even has an offer for a “landlord bundle”.
http://www.nolo.com/products/nolos-landlord-bundle-LLBUN.html
Thanks Joey, that sounds like a good idea.
I dunno if the books mentioned touch on commercial. The many reviews on amazon might mention it. The index might also be available at amazon, if (Take a look inside!) is on the photo at the top.
I’d make inquires about the possibility of getting those telephone (power?) lines and poles moved behind the building, or maybe buried.. unless the frost line is a problem. That’s the kinda guy I am.
What a great opening line, azlender. Very funny! Thanks.
Good luck to you and yours.
Not sure why you would expect the seller to pay for further improvements, unless your inspection really uncovered some big surprise.
It’s an out.
You can say “If you don’t fix “that”, (”that” being something really expensive) the deal is off.
“If you don’t fix “that”, (”that” being something really expensive) the deal is off ??
Its called secondary negotiations…Much of this can be limited by getting inspections before you market the property…I just put a rental home on the market for sale…All the inspections and reports are already done…
I did that when I sold my San Jose house back in 2006. A completed report from a standard inspection vendor was a good firewall in my negotiations. It was $500 well spent.
I don’t see how you’ve limited anything. Can’t the buyer run their own inspection or anything else despite you already doing it…?
Of course you can refuse an offer with a contingency you don’t approve of.. I guess that limits it.
I’ve never understood why I should believe an inspection that was paid for by the seller. Wouldn’t the inspector have a bias to make their true customer (e.g. the seller) happy? And wouldn’t I have no recourse against the inspector for missing anything, since I did not pay them?
Absolutely, Prime. I am using the most thorough inspector in the region and certainly would not be satisfied with a seller-paid inspection.
Can’t the buyer run their own inspection ??
Well sure they can….But if the buyers inspection comes in with more than the sellers inspection then then someone is either lying or incompetent…
I should believe an inspection that was paid for by the seller ??
And why not ?? If its done by a competent independent insured company whats wrong with that ??
Wouldn’t the inspector have a bias to make their true customer (e.g. the seller) happy?
No…Not unless they want to get their a$$es sued off…Besides, its a “third party” agency just like a escrow holder…They have no allegiance or agency to anyone no matter who pays…You could make the same statement about a buyer paying for the inspection and the inspector making things up for the benefit of the buyer…
And wouldn’t I have no recourse against the inspector for missing anything, since I did not pay them ??
No again…The inspection is a opinion based on a “competent” inspection…If you do not trust the opinion, get your own…
Absolutely, Prime. I am using the most thorough inspector in the region and certainly would not be satisfied with a seller-paid inspection ??
Bush$hit…Your assumption is that the sellers inspector is incompetent…So is your inspector the “only” qualified inspector in the area ?? If so, it sounds like a competitive business opportunity for someone who is…
Despite all that, I want my own inspection and I won’t be talked out of it.
Sellers are desperate these days and fraud is running rampant, and I don’t know you from the man in the moon.
Frankly, your seeming resistance to my running an inspection is very suspicious.
And, if my inspection turns up anything that doesn’t meet with my approval, and which you will not negotiate to my satisfaction, the sale is off.
Take the offer.. or leave it.
and another thing.. you are gonna pay for my inspection..
..And i want you to hire an exterminator to get rid of all those rodents.. aka “pet” squirrels… you’ve been feeding and attracting to the property…
I hate those filthy things.
I hope it works out great for you, az_lender!
100x monthly rents certainly makes it sound like a more reasonable deal.
At that pricing, my main reservation would depend on the community: how much will the rental market soften in the next couple of years? That is pretty hard to estimate without a sense of the employment base.
At 100x rents, I would considering buying SFHs in my community to rent out. Unfortunately, prices are still at least twice that here. Even the apartment buildings on the market are at ridiculous wishing prices relative to gross rents.
I wish you the best!
Out of curiousity, how are your mobile loans paying recently? Still in good shape there?
All borrowers still paying perfectly, except for a lady who died last week. Her grandson asked me for a little time to sell the place, and I consented to that. I am certain he can sell it for more than she owed.
Will you manage it yourself azlender, or will you use a resident manager? Best of luck to you.
This whole thing got started because one of my neighbors in the building accosted me in the parking lot saying ,”Oh God, the building’s for sale, I don’t want to be condoized.” And I said, “Don’t worry about it Steven, the building won’t sell.” Only then I found out the price was REASONABLE. So I called up Steven and said, “I’ll buy the building if YOU’ll be the one to answer people’s phone calls about their leaky toilets.” And Steven & his wife said they’d be thrilled to do that. Since I’m not here most of the year. So I’ll give S & his wife a smallish break on their rent. They are just happy that I’m not a Condoizer.
Have a nice day.
New Supply Floods U.S. Housing Market
To the surprise of no one (who was paying attention), the U.S. housing market is once again flooded with excess supply – and worse still, the situation is guaranteed to get much, much worse in the months (and years) ahead.
The situation is very simple: there are no buyers and more “homeowners” than at any time in history are incapable of servicing their mortgages (in other words, they aren’t really home-owners). This means that inventories will go straight up, and prices should go straight down. Of course, as I pointed out in a previous commentary, massive U.S. mortgage-fraud (which is greater today than at the heart of the first U.S. housing-bubble) means that even price-data from the U.S. housing market is hopelessly flawed.
To be specific, fraudulent transactions reporting supposed “price gains” of 1000% and more have totally poisoned this data. As a result, no one is capable of saying exactly how fast U.S. house prices are really falling. Using fraud to lie to Americans is nothing new for the U.S. government – and undoubtedly it considers itself very clever to use mortgage-fraud to feign price-gains in the U.S. housing market.
However, all that is being accomplished is that instead of an horrific crash – which finally results in an equilibrium price-level, the U.S. government continues to delay the real, necessary correction in prices. Instead of this crash being spread over merely five to ten years, the U.S. government is ensuring a full generation of slow, steady decay.
As I remind readers regularly, the U.S. “pension crisis” and $70 trillion in “unfunded liabilities” mean that the pensions and social programs which are supposed to support retiring baby-boomers are grossly and hopelessly under-funded. Recipients (with rare exceptions) will only be receiving pennies on the dollar with respect to these benefits.
Holding no assets other than real estate, retiring baby-boomers have a choice between radically reducing their spending (and standards of living) – which will destroy the U.S. consumer-economy – or, they can dump trillions of dollars of real estate onto the market (i.e. at least 10 million more homes).
http://www.bullionbullscanada.com/ - 142k
“Holding no assets other than real estate, retiring baby-boomers have a choice between radically reducing their spending (and standards of living) – which will destroy the U.S. consumer-economy – or, they can dump trillions of dollars of real estate onto the market (i.e. at least 10 million more homes).”
I vote real estate asset dump over austerity. Give young American families a chance to start out their lives with affordable housing, contribute something to the economy with the college education for which they worked so hard and paid so dearly, and help them pay off those student loans while contributing to the economy. The government-sponsored effort to prop up housing prices is counterproductive, as it keeps both labor and housing market liquidity in a tundra-like state of existence.
BTW, I basically no longer have a dog in the fight, other than a general interest in seeing the U.S. economy eventually recover, as I no longer think of us as a potential home buyer household.
The government is working to dump the real estate into the laps of the “poor”. I don’t recall the program, but one of Obama’s programs has been to give Billions of dollars to cities and counties to clean up the abandoned houses and sell them to the “disadvantaged”.
I got a call from a friend yesterday to tell me of a story he got from Miami from a friend in the housing department of that town…….so this is all second hand and may not be entirely accurate:
City buys abandoned house from bank for 40 cents on the dollar or less. Example was a 500k bubble priced house that the city is now selling to the poor. New price is 175k. That’s not really affordable housing, but they have a new mortgage scam. The loan is broken in 2 parts. The banks carries 100k. The city uses the governments money to offer the 75k at zero interest and minimum payments of $25 per month. The new owner must make the payments for 10 years and stay in the house, then the 75k balance is forgiven, and the new owner gets the house for the balance due to the bank (the 100k part of the loan). This keeps the house occupied and is a direct subsidy to the “underpriviledged”.
The only requirement to qualify: LOW INCOME. That includes illegal aliens and anyone else who can show they have a low income. What a deal. Some of those 500k houses are really nice and well worth more than 100k, and I may even try to get in on this government boondoggle. I just don’t want to live in Miami.
‘…sell them to the “disadvantaged”…’
That’s a fast track to destroying the housing stock. I studied Russian in the early-1980s with a teacher who had recently immigrated to the U.S. from Moscow. She noticed two things about the (inner city) housing stock in her new home in a Midwest City:
1) There was plenty of housing.
2) It was in dilapidated condition.
The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development has done a fantastic job of placing people who have no means to maintain it in housing for which they otherwise would not qualify, resulting in perpetual blight in a large swath of Midwestern cities, and crowding out qualified owners with a plague of crime and blight. At a minimum, the “D” in HUD should be redefined to denote “Destruction.”
Most intriguingly, Mitt Romney’s father was HUD director under Nixon. A sad story in the recent news featured the demolition of his (vacant) childhood home in Detroit. Our government has a long track record of using federal tax dollars to turn perfectly good neighborhoods into slums, but that doesn’t mean it is too late to end the practice.
Didn’t Mitt’s dad get brainwashed about Vietnam?
I basically no longer have a dog in the fight, other than a general interest in seeing the U.S. economy eventually recover, as I no longer think of us as a potential home buyer household.
Welcome fellow club member!
“O, but impatience waiteth on true sorrow.
And see where comes the breeder of my sorrow! ”
“Henry VI, Part III”
BTW, I basically no longer have a dog in the fight, other than a general interest in seeing the U.S. economy eventually recover, as I no longer think of us as a potential home buyer household.
Professor Bare my I ask why are you giving up on buying a house. Inquiring minds want to know?
He lives in Rancho Bernardo - still depressingly high prices.
….the U.S. housing market is once again flooded with excess supply – and worse still, the situation is guaranteed to get much, much worse in the months (and years) ahead…
only a “bullionbull” could call that bad. They can find a dark side on the Sun.
Hmmm, sometimes it all comes down to fairly simple math…
well, the bullionbulls .. aka gold bugs.. are extremely biased, and care about only one thing, in good times or bad: Appreciation of and an increase in the popularity of gold.
Math be damned.. the world is going to hell, and you can take their word for it.
To the surprise of no one (who was paying attention)
Hey you spurred a memory: “Critical thinking skills lesson for a 7 year old”
OK, TY beenie-babies 1992…swap meet/flea market…hundreds to choose from…but my daughter (age 7) desires one particular critter sitting all by it’s “poor lonesome self”, (her description) inside a lonely glass box,… why up high above all the other cute little critters down below.
“How much is the critter in the glass box?”
“Oh, that one’s “special” it’s retired & it’s the only one we have left! $15.00″
(Hwy observes most of the others are $4-6.00 some x2 for $8.00.. we wander about the collection laid out in long rows)
“Hey look at this cute little mongoose, maybe this hummingbird, wouldn’t this cute raccoon befriend your other critters? Hwy pauses…then like a flash of lighting, another lil’ girl shouts: “I’ll want that critter in the glass box!
Uh-ho, danger-Will-Robinson, he who hesitates deals with the broken heart of a 7 year old…too late!
Hwy consoling:”…now don’t worry, there’s other sellers, we’ll find one…”
x3 aisles later, ah ha,…how much for this critter?”
“$10.00 …it’s retired, hard to find…”
“OK, we’ll take it…”
Later, as we were leaving, I directed our exit past the vendor selling the “Special” case encased $15.00 TY, and what type of “critter” do you suppose was inside?
(The look on my Daughter’s face was…priceless!)
Saw an abandoned property here in Lakewood Ranch a few weeks ago. The cage around the pool was locked, and the pool was a dark green algae swamp. Weeds growing thru the pavers around the pool were about 18 inches high and their stems are about 1/2 inch diameter and turning into wood. I think they might be trees! The house next door is for sale, but not yet listed. Agent said seller will probably list it over $600,000. Good luck with that.
I spoke with a loan officer the other day, about stalled foreclosures etc in FL. He said until the bank, or actually Fannie Mae, forecloses, they can’t do a thing to maintain them. Servicers are not in a hurry, since they collect servicing for doing nothing. Fannie is not in a hurry, because taxpayers foot the bill. Result - go ahead and stay in the house rent free Mr. Borrower, no worries!
“Result - go ahead and stay in the house rent free Mr. Borrower, no worries!”
Works great, until it doesn’t.
More employee-assistance calls seek housing aid
A “bank foreclosure sale” sign is posted in front of a townhouse in August 2010 in Los Angeles. Banks repossessed homes at a near record pace, driving up foreclosures.
By Kevork Djansezian, Getty Images
By Sharon Jayson, USA TODAY
Housing problems have for the first time replaced child care as the No. 1 subject of employee-assistance calls, a new report says.
Of more than 25,000 calls from January to June 2010, 41% were related to moving. Of those, 77% sought help finding an apartment, and two-thirds of those seeking apartments said it was “foreclosure related,” according to ComPsych, which has tracked employee-assistance calls since 1984. The company, which provides employee-assistance programs to 13,000 organizations with 33 million workers worldwide, will release the report Thursday.
Child care, which has always been at the top of the list, declined from 43% of calls in the first half of 2008 to 32% in that period this year. The moving category increased by 14% in six months.
…
Shouldn’t voters have a right to know if, say, Goldman Sachs is funding Meg Whitman’s California gubernatorial campaign? That way, California voters could get an idea of how heavily she will favor Wall Street interests over those of California’s citizenry in case she gets elected to the governor’s office.
Obama again slams GOP for holding up campaign finance bill
By Scott Wilson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, September 18, 2010; 6:21 AM
For the second time in a month, President Obama on Saturday used his weekly address to call on Senate Republicans to stop blocking legislation that would require companies, unions and other interest groups to explicitly identify themselves in any campaign advertising they fund.
As the November election nears, Obama has increasingly used his radio and Internet address to make a political statement, and his remarks Saturday echoed a theme he used in a campaign fundraising speech earlier in the week.
He has repeatedly cast a January Supreme Court ruling that, for the first time, allows corporations, unions and other organizations to spend unlimited amounts of money on behalf of candidates as a grave threat to fair elections during a critical midterm campaign season. The address drew an angry response from Republicans, who accused Obama of caring only about his party’s hold on Congress.
“What’s at stake is not just an election,” Obama said in the address. “It’s our democracy itself.”
…
Bear,
You owe me a new keyboard for that post. When
I read the final quote I lost it. You could have at
least warned us what was coming.
I think I’ll frame it.
I like my navel too.
Look, fuzzy stuff!
At the same time, I’d like to see how my tax money is being used to fund political campaigns, particularly at the federal level. I’d bet that quite a bit of federal tax money is funneled toward keeping the Political Class fat and happy, both in D.C. and elsewhere. This is in addition to how campaign money is funneled through banks via crap like TARP.
Theoretically, I have a modicum of control over state taxes might be used to fund campaigns. At the Fed level, I have no say-so at all.
How do you figure you have control at the state level?
Votes. That’s how.
The Great Vampire Squid on the Face of Humanity will figure out a way to reclaim this expense from California’s citizenry if we make the collective error of voting their candidate into office. My wife and I so far plan to cancel out each other’s votes, but perhaps if I send her this article, she will swing my way.
Meg Whitman poster woman for campaign reform
* September 16th, 2010 12:39 pm PT
California gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman has spent over $119 million of her own money in an attempt to buy the office which proves that it is time for elections reform.
As it stands, the former board member of Goldman Sachs has spent more of her own money than any one in any statewide election ever. This stands as further proof that the original concept of a government “of the people, by the people, and for the people” has become perverted. Only those with access to large sums of money can hope to gain access to the political system.
So far, Withman’s personal investment of $119 million amounts to approximately $3.25 for every man, woman, and child in the state of California.
…
Might as well spend it now so her estate taxes will be a lot lower
seems like a lot of rich people will be running in the future just so the guvmint wont get it.
I’m holding “at all hazards” the left flank, Major Bear!
Meg / 2010
Beg / 2011
So far, Withman’s personal investment of $119 million
Telegram for America:
Read my lips…Meg / 2010 only desires to be the Governor of California…she has absolutely no other “Long-Term” political aspirations…stop…really!…stop
Sincerely, Hwy50
Tuesday, October 31, 2006
‘Orgy’ of campaign spending breaks California record
..The governor’s race also is approaching a landmark $130 million. Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Democrat Phil Angelides have spent more than $30 million each so far this year. An additional $40 million was spent by Democrat Steve Westly, who lost to Angelides in the June primary.
The $130 million record was set in 2002 when former Gov. Gray Davis defeated Republicans Bill Simon and Richard Riordan. ..
http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/15481
I dunno what Schwarzenegger spent on his first campaign. A lot.
What terrible mental affliction could delude any of these people into believing they will get a positive a return on the investment?
…Supreme Court ruling that, for the first time, allows corporations, unions and other organizations to spend unlimited amounts of money on behalf of candidates..
unions? Wait a minute.. I did a bit of quick research when this ruling was made and, IIRC, unions were ALWAYS allowed to finance political campaigns.
companies, unions and other interest groups to explicitly identify themselves in any campaign advertising they fund.
The problem is that dollars are fungible. Various contributors all pour money into a pot, from which it is dispersed into various advertising campaigns. Would any TV advert then have to list all 1,000 largest contributors?
It sounds like once the U.S. housing market finally reaches a firm (not squishy) bottom, those who sat out the bubble may have a three-to-four year window to decide whether they might want to buy a home or just keep renting before facing the slightest risk of getting priced out. Would it be better to rent for those three-to-four years of life at the bottom of the housing sea, or to pay interest to the bank? I guess that will depend on whether the Fed’s ‘extended period’ of low interest rates extends that far into the future.
I have to confess that we have lost all interest whatever in buying a home for the moment, but by 2017, who knows?
U.S. home prices face three-year drop as inventory surge looms
By John Gittelsohn and Kathleen M. Howley
Wednesday, September 15, 2010; 12:24 AM
Shadow inventory — the supply of homes in default or foreclosure that may be offered for sale — is preventing prices from bottoming after a 28 percent plunge from 2006, according to analysts from Moody’s Analytics Inc., Fannie Mae, Morgan Stanley and Barclays Plc. Those properties are in addition to houses that are vacant or that may soon be put on the market by owners.
“Whether it’s the sidelined, shadow or current inventory, the issue is there’s more supply than demand,” said Oliver Chang, a U.S. housing strategist with Morgan Stanley in San Francisco. “Once you reach a bottom, it will take three or four years for prices to begin to rise 1 or 2 percent a year.”
…
Drinking and bottom calling don’t mix!
The Truth: Housing Bottom has Arrived…
How you can profit…
By Ian Cooper
Friday, September 17th, 2010
Yep, housing is finally beginning to bottom out…
Well… for the dimwitted.
More than 70% of Americans think now is a good time to buy a home, according to a Fannie Mae survey. And 78% believe home prices have either bottomed or will rise next year.
What are they thinking? Better yet, what are they drinking?
…
It’s gonna be a battle to the death between fantasy and reality. I’m putting my money on reality.
So I take it you are planning to buy a home in the near future then, Joey?
near future? I really doubt that. Reality has a long, tough road ahead.
“…according to a Fannie Mae survey..”
I can’t imagine who has a bigger dog in this fight than does Fannie Mae.
What’s wrong with drinking?
PS :- It’s far from the bottom. That is called incomes.
“What’s wrong with drinking?”
It apparently leads to irrational exuberance, at least in serial bottom callers’ delusional minds.
Pish tosh.
Drink up!
I’ll get my last chemo on Oct. 22. I plan to drink a lot in November, as soon as my taste buds come back.
What will we do with another 12 million homes on the market when there are no buyers? Will the banks have to just give them away? It only seems fair, given that Uncle Sam has been talking for years about providing “affordable housing,” that further efforts to keep prices propped up on a permanently high plateau will soon give way to contrary efforts to allow market forces to bring housing prices back in line with fundamental factors like local incomes.
The frustrating aspect of the recent part of this episode is that many (including a number of HBB posters) pointed out from the beginning that the $8K tax credit was a dumb idea. But that didn’t slow down the political juggernaut that supported it by one bit.
Where are the supporters of the $8K credit now, and are they proud of the financial disaster they have perpetrated on the Rubes who bought homes to capture $8K in short-term stimulus? How about all the advocates in Congress of Affordable Housing, who tempted low-income households to financially hang themselves on hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debt. What were you guys thinking?
Downstate Delaware home prices decline
Sales volume falls across state; most national figures are bleak
By ERIC RUTH • The News Journal • September 17, 2010
The Delaware residential real estate market grew cooler and cooler in most areas last month as summer’s end approached, falling mostly short of levels posted at the same time last year.
Sales prices continued their drop in August across Kent and Sussex counties, though New Castle County saw an 8.2 percent uptick compared with last year. In Sussex, the number of units sold rose 10.8 percent compared with last August, but were off 7 percent in Kent and a sharp 31.8 percent in New Castle County, according to Trend MLS.
The softening market is partly a consequence of federal homebuyers tax credits that expired this spring, which pushed much of the demand into the first half of the year. But sales are also off compared with a year ago, showing that the market’s weakness goes beyond the impact of expired incentives.
Foreclosures across the country continue to set records, contributing to a growing housing supply that ultimately may add as many as 12 million homes to the U.S. market.
…
I addressed this subject of supply of homes with limited demand in a post the other day. With the current conditions you don’t really have a
RE market that resembles fair market value . You either have trapped sellers that want more than the income or rental stats can bear ,or you have a over supply of foreclosures overshooting to unload with prices below true value in a lot of cases ,especially with the low rates .Can you have a viable market when people are in fear of job loss ? Can you have a viable market when a nice house is sitting next to a boarded up house and 30% of the houses are vacant in the neighborhood?
I content that this isn’t a RE market because the prices are all over the board in the same neighborhood .You got one lender holding out you got another lender unloading ,you got another trapped seller setting a price based on what that seller needs to get .
Foreclosure prices will end up sitting the prices and the oversupply of foreclosures is huge
Even if the Lenders unload slowly the market is destroyed for years because people have the perception that prices will decline .You can’t say that a trapped seller that needs to sell but can’t would be considered a seller that really wants to own the property ,but they are distressed . It’s a distressed market where both buyers and sellers are
weak and compromised .In this situation it is impossible to establish
fair market value because all parties have weak hands .
…are they proud of the financial disaster they have perpetrated on the Rubes who bought homes to capture $8K..
Who’s job was it to teach those people how to read, listen, observe, study the subject at hand, and be very careful before making big money commitments?
The point is that the government targeted a program at unsophisticated new home buyers which is likely to put the start of their existence as a U.S. household on an unstable financial footing. Why is Uncle Sam in the business of minting FB’s? Or was it not obvious to those who designed this program what the result would be?
I think they knew what they were doing. The objective was not to help anyone in particular.
Besides, first time buyers are youngest on average and have lots of time to recover. And what do they lose? A few grand in a down payment.
Meanwhile the economic wheels get some much needed grease.
Potential upside from disconnecting zombie GSE feeding tubes (including re-privatization of mortgage lending and elimination of federal loan guarantees):
1) Reduce wasteful government (taxpayer) expenditures on private housing;
2) Increase employment and profits for private providers of housing financial services, such as mortgage bankers and mortgage insurers;
3) Fulfill the long-awaited but elusive promise of Affordable Housing;
4) Put sidelined Realtors and other providers of home sales services back to work, as prices adjust to levels where prospective buyers are willing and able to buy homes again;
5) Stimulate furniture, appliance and other types of sales for industries which serve home buyers;
6) Thaw out frozen liquidity in the national U.S. housing and labor markets.
I see very little downside, especially in light of the potential tax savings. Flippers will get burned, but they obviously understood the risk of that happening, or they wouldn’t be able to make their living as investors.
Rethink signalled on home loan pledge
By Tom Braithwaite in Washington
Published: September 15 2010 21:01 | Last updated: September 15 2010 23:43
The government guarantee that now extends to most of the US housing market could be scaled back as part of a reform effort, officials signalled.
Michael Barr, an assistant Treasury secretary, acknowledged at a congressional hearing on Wednesday there were “potential upsides of having a full privatisation” of government-backed mortgage guarantors, including reducing taxpayers’ risk.
Almost $150bn of public money has been funnelled to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored enterprises that back mortgages, after they were seized by the Bush administration in 2008 to avoid a collapse.
Ed DeMarco, acting director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which regulates the GSEs, told the House financial services committee hearing that it was “reasonable to question whether all conventional mortgages warrant a government guarantee”. He added: “If the government backstop is underpriced, taxpayers eventually may foot the bill again.”
…
THE ANSWER TO A HOUSING RECOVERY: LOWER PRICES
30 August 2010 by TPC
The simple economics behind the situation in housing is beginning to become more apparent as the weeks go by. As we’ve noted for several years now the primary problem in the US housing market remains one of supply and demand. As the jobs market continues to weaken, deflation takes hold of the US economy and the shadow inventory floods the market the math here remains simple enough for an Econ 101 student to understand. In order for the housing market to build a firm foundation that does not require government aid we will need to see a reduction in prices. In a recent research report Merrill Lynch described just how extreme the supply/demand imbalance has become in recent months and years:
More worrisome is the huge increase in shadow inventory that Merrill expects:
…
Now Mr. Bear, I’m certain you know this factoid:
The most sought after Tulip in the days of Tuplipmania (1637) was created as a result of a VIRUS.
Foreclosures in U.S. Hit All-Time High
By Caroline Dobson
Epoch Times Staff Created: Sep 16, 2010 Last Updated: Sep 16, 2010
FORECLOSED: A “bank foreclosure sale” sign is posted in front of townhomes on Aug. 12 in Los Angeles. U.S. banks repossessed homes at a record pace last month.(Kevork Djansezian/Getty Images)
U.S. homes lost to foreclosures have hit an all time high in August. According to RealtyTrac Inc. the number of home repossessions is up 3 percent from July, bringing the total to 95,364 properties, an increase of 25 percent from August 2009.
The Irvine, Calif.-based data provider has been accumulating research since 2006. The firm monitors notices for defaults, scheduled home auctions, and home repossessions—warnings that result in a home ultimately going into foreclosure. One in every 381 housing units received a foreclosure filling in August, according to the report. It appears that the outlook is rather bleak, prompting more pressure on a U.S. housing market recovery, which is impacted by other economic factors. Rising unemployment, volatile consumer confidence, coupled with the federal homebuyer tax incentive concluding in April, are all factors to consider.
U.S. home sales have been dramatically affected, so according to Rick Sharga, a RealtyTrac senior vice president, “these (properties) are going to come to market, but very slowly because nobody wants to overwhelm a soft buyer’s market with too much distressed inventory for fear of what it would do for house prices,” reports AP.
August marks the ninth consecutive increase of homes lost to foreclosure on an annual basis. The last previous high was in May.
…
It appears that the road to getting your Chinese drywall replalced is paved with bad intentions - from the insurance companies.
Complaints about the drywall, or wallboard, which was mostly made in China, first surfaced a few years ago, and hundreds of lawsuits have been filed in state and federal court to recover money to replace it. The federal Consumer Product Safety Commission has received 3,500 complaints about the drywall and says it believes thousands more have not reported the problem.
But so far the relief has been negligible. Most insurance companies have yet to pay a dime. Only a handful of home builders have stepped forward to replace the tainted drywall. Help offered by the government — like encouraging lenders to suspend mortgage payments and reducing property taxes on damaged homes — has not addressed the core problem of replacing the drywall. And Chinese manufacturers have argued that United States courts do not have jurisdiction over them.
Linkey
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/18/business/18drywall.html?hp
I can’t wait to see this.
Wall Street, the sequel
Goldman whacked
Egged on by hedge funds, Oliver Stone turns on Goldman Sachs
Sep 16th 2010 | New York
Dinner jackets are for wimps
TWENTY-THREE years after he first championed greed, Gordon Gekko is back. Michael Douglas reprises his role as the slick-haired financial barbarian in Oliver Stone’s “Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps”, due for release on September 24th.
Half-reformed after prison, Gekko is more anti-hero than villain this time. He is still dazzled by lucre, but also determined to give warning of the dangers of excessive leverage. The real baddies are Bretton James and the securities firm he runs, Churchill Schwartz—perhaps the least disguised fictional name ever. Executives at Goldman Sachs are said to be unamused.
James, played by Josh Brolin, is nothing like Goldman’s top brass. He wields phallic cigars, races superbikes and smashes his copy of Goya’s “Saturn Devouring His Son” on a lamp when fingered for manipulating the share price of a rival firm.
But the script is sprinkled with echoes of Goldman: Churchill Schwartz bets against markets that it makes, including subprime mortgages; its credit-default swaps are bailed out at par; and it has friends at the Treasury. An exposé of the firm, written by Jake Moore, a disillusioned prop trader and the film’s central character, begins: “The first thing you need to know about Churchill Schwartz is that it’s everywhere.” A damning Rolling Stone article on Goldman in 2009 opened with precisely those words, the name apart.
…
Me neither!
I’m OK with greed though. I’m pretty greedy in a rational kinda way if that makes any sense.
Greed is fine, provided there is a functioning government to enforce a rule of law.
It’s Mogadishu, clad in pinstripe suits and nice haircuts.
Might go well with an IFC Indie! (Hwy calculates days ’till this years Thanksgiving-Family-Feast!)
“Coming Soon!”
“Justice is here to kick as$!”
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/movies/2010/09/ifc-buys-rights-to-super-starring-rainn-wilson-ellen-page.html
The Liberace museum is closing because they can’t afford their new mortgage and lack of rent from their strip center:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/18/us/18liberace.html?_r=1&ref=us
Tacky can’t sell in Las Vegas?
Las Vegas is now doomed…..
That’s not the only cultural institution suffering during the Great Recession. I work with a Norwegian researcher who lives across the street from Edward Grieg’s home (now a museum), which had to be recently closed due to a shortage of funds.
I always think of those descending chords that begin Grieg’s piano concerto would be great theme music for the crashing price of houses….
Didn’t they get $100,000 from the Federal government for a new roof? And no, I am not making that up.
I’m making my annual tomato paste.
WOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
It’s nice having cash to buy twenty pounds of heirloom tomatoes.
Life is a banquet but most of the poor s_ckers are starving!
Hey Faster, lets get the NY crew on a radio show with Ben next month…in a nice tribeca loft…..
http://nytalkradio.net
Years ago I canned tomatoes, but I don’t know how to make tomato paste. Do you use olive oil? How many hours does it take? How do you get the consistency - a food processor?
It takes all godda*n day but as I said, the payoff is not now but in February!
You need a food mill, and stellar olive oil, and stellar skimming skills to remove the afore-mentioned olive oil, and all day at a very low heat.
I just crank up the music and the wine.
Here in the dry west it’s more fun to make your own wine. You get about 2 gallons out of 30 lbs. of clusters. Last year was a good vintage here but the winter really killed off the vines. Hence this year I probably won’t make any, unless I can get some grapes cheap. The U of I ag station at Parma has a large planting in Shiraz for testing ag theories, and they don’t use the grapes. Members of the public can harvest for some nominal charge…..
My wine is bottled under the “Chateau Bonnier de La Chappelle” lable, named for the French patriot who shot Admiral Darlan.
BTW, does anyone know how the latest rounds of FB ARMs resets are going? It looks like it’s getting worse.
Roidy
DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As long as the govt keeps rewarding people for defaulting it will only get worse.I keep seeing articles for helping the struggleing homeowner.Why dont they throw a bone to help people paying their bills?
“BTW, does anyone know how the latest rounds of FB ARMs resets are going? It looks like it’s getting worse.”
The longer unemployment stays this high, the more FB’s will be pulled under. I’m starting to think the economy doesn’t need to get worse, it just needs to stay as it is for another two or three years, and a lot more borrowers will be throwing in the towel.
Per the suggestion of several of the HBBers yesterday, I looked up the address of my sis’s place in SoCal, and checked it on Zillow.
As we spoke in 2006, the house was hitting it’s maximum bubble-generated value.
The “Worth a Million Dollars in 2011″, El Casa Costa Too Mucho sold this spring for $450K.
The good news is that they paid $250K for the place in the early 90’s (from a guy who was upside down on it $100K). The bad news is that she used the money to buy TWO places in Texas. HELOC? Don’t know that either, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
So how many people who bought 5, 6, 7 or even 10 or more houses are waiting for the prices to come back before they sell, and will dump if prices don’t recover soon? Enquiring minds want to know…
Grunge is good!
* TRICKS OF THE TRADE
* SEPTEMBER 10, 2010
The Jeans Care Secret: Rarely Wash Them
By CHERYL LU-LIEN TAN
Carl Chiara, director of brand concepts and special projects for Levi Strauss & Co., is among the growing number of jeans enthusiasts who believe in washing them as little as possible.
Mr. Chiara, who says he wears jeans every day in both work and social situations, believes that “the less people wash their jeans, the better their jeans become. Denim really does shape to people’s bodies, and when you wash a jean you lose some of that shape.”
He doesn’t like to put his jeans in a washing machine because agitating the denim makes the fibers on the cotton fabric swell and “bloom.” That in turn causes the yarns to tense up and actually get shorter, shrinking the jeans. This also mars the “open” look of the denim, Mr. Chiara says. The color may fade or change as well.
…
Out of maybe ten, I have a couple pairs of Levis that are over 20 years old that have been washed a million times. Cold water, no bleach.
Bleach is what weakens the fabric. It’s caustic and eats natural fibers. That’s why it feels slimy. It’s dissolving your skin.
But since Levi moved production to Mexico recently, I don’t care much.. Once these are gone, they’re gone. I’ll never buy another pair.
Or you could just wash the jeans and buy a new pair when it dies …
yeah.. buy a new pair and stimulate the economy…
hey!
Now there’s an idea.. Spike the water supply with something that quickly destroys clothing. It’s gotta be non-toxic to humans and dogs..
Cats? meh…
Imagine how much business that’ll generate… but mostly in China..
ah well. no biggee.. most of my ideas suck.. I’m used to it.
Being on the tiny size I can get my Levi’s at the thrift shops, $4.99 tops, less if discount day. I guess a lot of people still don’t know how much 501’s shrink. And yes, I read the discussion on purchasing clothes at thrift shops, but you can’t hurt 501’s.
Bleach is what weakens the fabric. It’s caustic and eats natural fibers. That’s why it feels slimy. It’s dissolving your skin.
I did not know that people use bleach to wash their jeans. Wouldn’t the bleach just bleach out the color of jeans? Bleach is not caustic enough to dissolve your skin especially after the rinse cycle in a washing machine.
well.. pure bleach is not caustic at all… it would be sodium hypochlorite in water. But more or less sodium hydroxide (Drano) is always mixed in with that because the hypochlorite is derived from raw hydroxide.
people bleach levis all the time.. it fades them.
more or less sodium hydroxide (Drano) is always mixed in with that because the hypochlorite is derived from raw hydroxide.
that’s not entirely correct.
Manufacturers want some measure of caustic included to help stabilize the hypochlorite, which spontaneously turns to common table salt fairly quickly.
Old bleach might be little more than salt water. Buy fresh and keep the cap tight.
Ding! There’s the bell.. don’t forget your homework assignments!
The percentage of available chlorine in bleach is about 2.75 percent over a 3 month period even when you start with a 6 percent solution in Clorox. Some companies have developed surfactants that can stabilize sodium hypochlorite but have not been successful at it. I treated and counseled patients with hydroxide burns skin. The skin dissolving with wearing jeans is not science but science fiction.Stick with spewing out garbage that most posters ignore.
who said anything about skin dissolving while wearing jeans?
Household bleach “feels” slimy because the caustic soda component.. aka lye or Drano.. is dissolving the skin. It also attacks natural fibers.. cotton.. even hair. Probably anything organic.
i didn’t mean to offend with the crack about school’s out. I found myself sounding like a Home Ec or chemistry teacher and it seemed to fit.
And I forgot you were one of the med professionals who hang in here. I don’t keep notes.
Had I remembered, the conversation would have taken a different course.. not one guaranteed to please you, but different.
Any chance the Tea Party or any other party will pursue a radical policy of U.S. housing policy reform, given what a complete clusterXXXX our federal policy is?
“…The moment has that all important plausible deniability.”
Sarah Palin Tells Karl Rove Where To Go…
NPR / Categories: Elections September 18, 2010
“…Like picking candidates who can appeal not just to the conservatives but independents and enough Democrats to win elections, which is the point some in the Republican establishment are making.”
“Sarah Palin said…”
“Sarah Palin said…”
“Sarah Palin said…”
Gobble, gobble, chomp, chomp…
meh
Alter Kacker
http://www.yourhome.ca/homes/articlePrint/862717
Why (housing) bubbles aren’t good for you
September 18, 2010
Tony Wong
Business Reporter
Toronto Star
Excerpts from article:
Bubble (verb)
1) A thin film of liquid inflated with air or gas
2) Something that lacks firmness, solidity or reality.
•Merriam-Webster
Bubble. Balloon. Mania.
Anyway you want to describe it, an economic bubble is the bogeyman of financial markets.
Classic economic theory says a bubble is simply an overly rapid expansion of a good or investment followed by a severe contraction, also known as a crash. That’s the not-so-great part.
Bubbles aren’t an unusual occurrence in markets. Just ask the folk who bought Nortel stock at the height of the technology bubble in 2000 at $1,245 a share. The company was worth more than a third of the entire Toronto Stock Exchange before it plummeted to penny stock status, eventually filing for bankruptcy protection.
“When people start using phrases like ‘this time it’s different, or we have a new paradigm, or I better buy now or I won’t be able to afford it,’ then you know you’re in trouble,” says economist Will Dunning.
“The new idea becomes a bubble based on three criteria: excessive leverage, widespread participation and dramatic overvaluation.”
“Everyone said at the time that prices couldn’t go down, that there was only so much land available. It was like brainwashing,” says Yoshikawa. One banker friend ended up buying four condos in downtown Tokyo and almost went bankrupt as a result, he says.
“I was tempted to buy something myself, just because everyone was buying something,” says Yoshikawa. “Now I see many of the same things happening in Canada.”
Most economists have ruled out a U.S.-style housing bust in Canada, particularly because we didn’t have the same volume of sub-prime loans. Tougher mortgage restrictions introduced this year means that risky zero-down, 40-year mortgages are no longer allowed.
Rosenberg, one of the most influential economists, and formerly chief North American economist for Merrill Lynch, says determining if we are in a bubble remains a “close call. If it wasn’t a bubble at the recent peak, then it was one giant-sized sud.”
“In a bubble market you have to find that greater fool, the persons who will always buy that good from you at a higher price,” says CIBC Economist Benjamin Tal.
“In Japan, no one was questioning anything. It was a pure psychological euphoria. That is a key ingredient of a bubble. In this case, Canadians are not that extreme.”
Tell that to frustrated buyers who were caught up in bidding wars earlier this year. Only a few months ago, buyers lined up overnight to be first in line to get condominiums in North York. It was the same scene when buyers camped out at a housing site in Mississauga for three weeks to get first crack at buying a property. Justin Beiber fans could identify.
Canada has more land than the US, and a population smaller than New York and Mumbai combined.
There’s freakin’ land as far as the eye can see!!!
Canada has more land than the US, and a population smaller than New York and Mumbai combined.
There’s freakin’ land as far as the eye can see!!!
Yea, but they ain’t makin’ any more of it.
&
BWAHAHAHicHAHAHicHAHAHAHAHicHAHAHic* (DennisN™)
&
Ho ho, hah hah, hehehehehehe, BwaHaHaAhHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! (Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower™)
Attorney: Octuplet mom is considering welfare
LORI BASHEDA and LOU PONSI /THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER Updated: Sept. 18, 2010 11:28 a.m.
“…Haddadin said Suleman failed to make her $4,060 house payment Sept. 1
Jeff Czech, Suleman’s attorney, confirmed that on Friday, but added: “Nadya’s actually probably going to earn a bunch of money today.”
According to Czech, after the news broke that his client was in financial trouble, two media outlets offered Suleman money for interviews tonight.”
Suleman nearly lost her home earlier this year after failing to make a scheduled balloon payment of $450,000. But Haddadin extended the loan to Oct. 9 as long as she continued to make monthly payments. Czech said the money she hopes to get from the interview tonight will not be enough for that balloon payment.
Czech also said his client is considering welfare.
“We’ve discussed it,” he said. “The last thing she wants to do is go on public aid. But she doesn’t have any future income. A few things fell through for her.”
Plan B:
“…Asked how bad things are, Czech said: “I know that the kids are still eating … But I get calls from her to the affect that things are really, really bad.”
When the news broke today that the mom of 14 was in trouble, Vivid Entertainment put out the word that it was offering her $500,000 to do an adult movie — “one scene for one hour,” TMZ is reporting.
This isn’t the first time Vivid made her an offer. She turned the others down, and told Oprah she would never take it. Czech said she still won’t.”
turned down half a mil.. hmm…
Oh well, Vivid can afford to be patient..
tick.. tock… tick… tock..
but the next offer will be lower.
Only 16 or so years till the real payoff.
8 in a scene, that’s got to be worth something.
Some kids are born lucky..
“Why not me??” you’re asking yourself.. not.
Octopussy!!!!!!!!!!!!