September 21, 2010

Bits Bucket For September 21, 2010

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Comment by ACH
2010-09-21 01:47:38

Wall Street made a rise on general buying yesterday. It was up 1.37% on no economic news at all.

Hmm.

Roidy

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-21 03:04:20

Haven’t you heard the news that the Great Recession is over now? Happy Days Are Here Again! Cheer up and buy some stocks, pal…

Comment by palmetto
2010-09-21 05:27:50

“the Great Recession is over now”

And at the same time, it has also been reported that the poverty level in the US is the highest it has been in 50 years.

So which is it? I know, it’s BOTH!

This sort of reporting used to make me angry, until I realized that I wouldn’t get angry over the nonsense that comes out of an lunatic’s mouth. I’d just pity them and put a lot of distance between myself and them. Which is what we should be doing with idiot economists and “experts” and the people who give them a forum (media).

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-09-21 07:15:29

If its over then we don’t have any need for QE-2, do we?

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Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2010-09-21 10:07:32

I think that you can have the end of a recession with no actual recovery. It’s just that there is no V shaped recovery. If we have an L shaped end to the recession, the end of the recession just puts a floor in on the misery. We might not be getting worse, but we’re not getting better. Expect a few years of the current levels of misery.

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Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2010-09-21 07:12:16

Whew (wiping the sweat off my forehead), we dodged THAT bullet! [/sarcasm off]

Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 02:56:39

LOL! ;)

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Comment by denquiry
2010-09-21 07:41:14

Haven’t you heard the news that the Great Recession is over now?
——————————————————————————-
Are the eCONomists that are spouting this the same ones that were clueless about the housing bubble?

Comment by arizonadude
2010-09-21 08:49:00

pop the bubbly!!!

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Comment by In Colorado
2010-09-21 09:04:41

“Are the eCONomists that are spouting this the same ones that were clueless about the housing bubble?”

And aren’t they the same crowd who a few years ago insisted that there was no recession to begin with?

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Comment by Carlos4
2010-09-21 17:12:23

I’m really lucky that the recession ended when it did. God only knows how much more than the $11,500 Zillow knocked off my home’s value this month would have been had we still been in a downturn… Cant wait for next month’s numbers. Cant wait for November, either, you betcha!

 
 
 
Comment by Dale
2010-09-21 08:25:43

“Haven’t you heard the news that the Great Recession is over now? Happy Days Are Here Again!”

…..Wheeew! And just in time for the November elections.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-21 21:46:38

Good time to sell your stocks: Nov 1 or then-about (want to beat the day-before-election-day selloff)…

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Comment by Blue Skye
2010-09-21 09:57:12

Keep in mind that all they are saying is that the fall was broken just there. They are not saying anything about the fact that it was only because the Fed had a leaf blower stuck up our collective behind. They are not saying anything about the saliva covered shark teeth visible chomping beneath the rotten floor boards of our landing. They are not mentioning the blood dripping or the broken bones, just that we hit a landing.

I believe them. I don’t believe this landing in the staircase will hold, much less that up is something we will see next.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-21 03:09:58

The housing recession isn’t over
By Paul R. La Monica, editor at large
September 20, 2010: 1:31 PM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — The worst is over for the housing market — at least according to Wall Street.

Shares of home builder Lennar were up more than 6% Monday after the company reported a stronger-than-expected profit for the third quarter (it reported a loss a year ago) as well as a 14% increase in sales. Other builder stocks moved higher as well.

The S&P Homebuilders ETF, which includes shares of several housing-related stocks, has been rising on hopes that the real estate market has hit bottom.

The news that the recession that began in 2007 officially ended a year ago helped boost stocks too.

But while traders are popping champagne corks, it’s better to take a closer look at the Lennar (LEN) report. The past three months may have been decent, but the future looks less promising.

For the housing market, at least, it doesn’t look like the recession is over just yet.

Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2010-09-21 07:39:24

I hit the wrong comment link. My above comment should have gone here, where it makes sense. Going up there, it doesn’t make shit for sense.

 
 
Comment by combotechie
2010-09-21 03:59:46

Suck them in, shake them out: The Market and the Newmakers working in concert in shaking money from the Lemming tree.

Next week the news stories will all be downers and the Market will drop and today’s buyers will then become sellers.

Look for the magic ten-thousand level of the DOW to be continuously milked for months and years as the pros do their thing.

The efficent parasite allows the host to live. The efficent stock market and the efficent casino (but I repeat myself) take the host’s money in chunks rather than all at once, thus it keeps all-important hope alive.

Comment by Blue Skye
2010-09-21 05:16:43

The Dow is setting up for the mother of all head and shoulders formations. It could hang up at around 10K until all hope is gone.

 
Comment by 2banana
2010-09-21 05:31:52

It is interesting on how the 10,000 line has become the Maginot Line.

Hey - it is just a number - just like 9786 is just a number. No difference.

I just hope we don’t hear tanks rumbling through Belgium.

Comment by Jim A.
2010-09-21 06:37:11

Arguably, in this analogy, housing is the Ardennes, which is a naturally safe part of the economy and needs no protection and minimal watching over. So while they have protected Wall street, (with the Maginot Line) the panzers have reached the coast, and are preparing to advance on Paris. It is only now dawning on the powers that be that saving Wall Street and the Banksters will not save the economy.

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-09-21 07:01:27

It is only now dawning on the powers that be that saving Wall Street and the Banksters will not save the economy.

They evacuated the banksters from Dunkirk with a flotilla of yachts, and left everyone else behind as a rear guard.

 
Comment by DennisN
2010-09-21 07:31:55

“It is impenetrable.”

- Marshal Petain about the Ardennes

I suppose Ben’s Blog is the Chain Home radar stations.

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2010-09-21 07:47:08

Yep ,they saved the Wall Street Casino .Really, had they allowed nature to take its course all those thieves would of had their
fortunes attacked and you would of seen trials like the
Keating/Lincoln Bank Trial of the 80’s in which they
went after Keating for misrepresentation of securities sold to
the public . Guess when it’s to big to fall the thieves get bailed out .

The Casino can’t even get enough respect to provide mortgage
market funds anymore and we the taxpayers backstop the loss of the only lender in town these days .

But if you look at Japans history they were not able to sustain a stock market rally and they were the first to bring interest rates down to zero and it still didn’t revive their economy .Talk about long term recession in a Country .

I just want to know when the public is going to start talking about the root causes of our loss of jobs and the recession that won’t go away .

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-09-21 07:50:01

Arguably, in this analogy, housing is the Ardennes, which is a naturally safe part of the economy and needs no protection and minimal watching over.

And what will be this analogy’s equivalent of the Battle of the Bulge?

 
Comment by DennisN
2010-09-21 08:41:26

Ron Paul saying “nuts”?

 
Comment by Jim A.
2010-09-21 09:44:15

Arizona slim –That presupposes that someday we’ll have D-Day and a second front.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-09-21 10:00:23

Wall Street = Kampfgruppe Peiper

Flyover/Main Street = Crossroads at Baugnez

J6P = 285th FAOB

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-09-21 10:16:28

Try again….

Banksters = Kampgruppe Peiper

Main Street = Crossroads at Baugnez

J6P = 285th FAOB

Elizabeth Warren = 291st Combat Engineers?

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-09-21 10:44:17

Elizabeth Warren = 291st Combat Engineers?

I like your style, X-GSfixr.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-09-21 12:02:41

I’ve always admired people who can make the right decisions when the SHTF.

A quality we are sorely lacking today.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-09-21 12:08:10

Which is why “Saving Private Ryan” irritated me, especially the last 30 minutes or so.

Our guys didn’t need to hold bridges “at all costs”. We had no problem blowing up bridges in front of enemy advances, because we knew our engineering troops could replace them quickly.

 
Comment by cactus
2010-09-21 12:18:46

I just want to know when the public is going to start talking about the root causes of our loss of jobs and the recession that won’t go away .”

listening to the MSM its all the fault of overly generous public pensions

re-direct the public’s attention away from banks and out-sourcing.

I’m not saying pensions are not screwed up but its a symptom rather than a cause

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 17:16:44

No, no, no! It’s all the fault of unions and po’ people!

 
Comment by CoSpgs4
2010-09-21 18:20:29

The constant “blame outsourcing” meme that is so popular on this board isn’t anywhere near the force that people wish it was.

In California, sure. But not most places around the country.

 
Comment by exeter
2010-09-21 18:47:25

The constant “blame unions” meme that is so popular on this board isn’t anywhere near the force that people wish it was.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 19:04:13

I’m sure the millions of autoworkers, accountants, programmers, textile workers, tech workers, factory workers, etc. who lost their jobs to offshoring all agree with you. :roll:

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-21 21:49:26

“Guess when it’s to big to fall the thieves get bailed out .”

Too-big-to-jail is here, Whiz…

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 03:19:46

Comment by cactus
2010-09-21 12:18:46
I just want to know when the public is going to start talking about the root causes of our loss of jobs and the recession that won’t go away .”

listening to the MSM its all the fault of overly generous public pensions

re-direct the public’s attention away from banks and out-sourcing.

I’m not saying pensions are not screwed up but its a symptom rather than a cause
———————

Exactly right, cactus.

The sheeple are being brainwashed into turning against one another instead of following the money…to the top (which is the cause of our problems).

 
 
 
Comment by denquiry
2010-09-21 07:46:16

Enron accounting methods, front running, HFT. Pray tell. Why the F*CK should I be buying stocks?

Comment by Carl Morris
2010-09-21 08:27:46

You wouldn’t want to be priced out forever?

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Comment by ACH
2010-09-21 11:20:27

“priced out forever”

I’d consider that a fortunate event if I were priced out forever.
Lucky,really. I wouldn’t go broke paying for “it” (houses, gold, stocks, wheat, oil, strippers, hookers, drugs, etc.)

Roidy

 
 
Comment by chilidoggg
2010-09-21 20:37:09

Profit from the coming gigantic bear market in wages, benefits, working conditions, and citizens’ rights!

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Comment by DennisN
2010-09-21 01:52:09

Another Hearst “Castle” is going on the block. Such a deal - marked down from $165 million to “only” $95 million. This may be an HBB record for markdowns in wishing price.

In a sign of the times, the onetime Beverly Hills home of publishing magnate William Randolph Hearst and actress Marion Davies, which was listed for sale briefly three years ago at $165 million, is back on the market at the 2010 price of $95 million. Its owner, attorney-investor Leonard M. Ross, filed for bankruptcy protection last week.

The reduced price is not surprising given the condition of the housing market. Median home prices in Southern California have declined 43% since their peak in 2007, according to MDA DataQuick, matching the price drop reflected on the new listing.

Called Beverly House, the 1920s mansion has had fairy tale moments. John and Jacqueline Kennedy honeymooned there. But it was also used to film scenes from the movie “The Godfather,” including the one in which a horse’s head was found in a bed.

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-09-21 07:09:00

” the 1920s mansion has had fairy tale moments”

In 2007, fruit-pickers had dreams of turning it into a boarding-house paradise for illegal workers.

 
Comment by Doghouse Riley
2010-09-21 09:59:54

Not interested unless it comes with the sled.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2010-09-21 11:50:15

Rosebud.

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 17:19:55

William Randolph Hearst

May he rest in hell.

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2010-09-21 02:03:47

Here’s a new twist on house scavenging, and it’s even worse than stripping out appliances and copper pipe.

Burning down houses so you can return to collect the bricks. I am not making this up.

But the blaze, one of 391 fires at vacant buildings in the city over the past two years, may have had a more sinister cause. Law enforcement officials, politicians and historic preservationists here have concluded that brick thieves are often to blame, deliberately torching buildings to quicken their harvest of St. Louis brick, prized by developers throughout the South for its distinctive character.

“The firemen come and hose them down and shoot all that mortar off with the high-pressure hose,” ….. When a thief goes to pick up the bricks after a fire, “They’re just laying there nice and clean.”

Comment by packman
2010-09-21 06:31:08

“The firemen come and hose them down and shoot all that mortar off with the high-pressure hose,” ….. When a thief goes to pick up the bricks after a fire, “They’re just laying there nice and clean.”

Wow, that must be some really weak mortar. I’ve done this by hand on some bricks, and there was no way you could just spray mortar off the bricks without obliterating the bricks themselves. Perhaps older mortar though…

Along those lines, I actually used some old unmortared bricks like this once (though I didn’t actually burn down any places). When I lived in nothern CA there was a guy near Santa Rosa that collected *everything* - included bricks from the old Roxy theater that had been torn down years ago (at least that’s what she said - not sure if it was true or not). The guy passed away and his wife was selling everything - I picked up a couple thousand for I think 5 cents each or so, and made a neat custom patio out of them. I always wondered how the heck the guy got that mortar off (I had tried it before on some newer bricks, and it was a b****!). I guess older mortar just didn’t stick as much.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-09-21 07:53:11

I’ve been collecting used bricks. They’re going to be used in the patio that will go beneath my cistern(s). (I currently have one cistern in need of installation. I may get a second.)

I can speak from personal experience re: the difficulty of removing mortar from bricks.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 11:30:28

you gotta get the brick really hot, like in an oven. I tried using a torch on the mortar and it doesn’t work well.

bricks are baked at about 2100 F and the components melt together, and they’re heat-proof to that temp.

Mortar, otoh, is only held together by a crystalline bond which included water molecules. If you heat the mortar and evaporate that water, it falls to dust.
Similarly, concrete will fall apart if it becomes perfectly dry.

But, you gotta pretty much heat the whole brick before the mortar gets hot enough.. Most people end up using a hammer and chisel.. and gloves.
what was that movie.. someone like Charles Bronson had a job chiseling mortar from used bricks in the opening scenes..

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 16:05:08

there might be an idea for a new product in there.. nah.. not enough of a market for it..

anyway, you just dehydrate the bricks. The water-bond is pretty strong and a low heat would be needed, but the main thing is to dry the brick (it’s porous and holds a lot of free water) so the mortar can dry out.

hmm.. microwave should do it.. but bricks are huge.. But maybe one at a time..

 
 
 
 
Comment by mikey
2010-09-21 07:16:51

I knew some wannabe idiot investers/flippers that got caught in the 80’s recession with older 4 plex residential and multiple family properties. These places were all low-end slumlord quality and they had no real money or cash besides their day jobs.

The brother of one was a loan officer and the plan was to become paperwork millionaires by purchasing properties, renting them out, collecting rents and using those properties and cash flow to purchase the next ones.

It seemed to be working until the recession and all their tenants began losing their jobs and their tenants began skipping out and walking away. Soon they were very desperate for cash.

One contacted a salvage company and was attempting to get a price for the bricks in one of their empty ratty apartment building…before they had a small insurance fire as per the salvage man. Their was a lot of arson in those days and the salvage company reported the authorities of their plans.

Moral of that story is don’t try to sell the bricks before you burn the place down and collect the insurance money.

:)

 
Comment by DennisN
 
Comment by DennisN
2010-09-21 08:42:59

If I understand the story correctly, it’s the heat from the fire that separates the bricks from the mortar.

Comment by polly
2010-09-21 09:56:06

And since the bricks are made in a kiln, heating them up, shouldn’t be a problem as long as the fire doesn’t get *too* hot and you don’t cool them off too quickly.

 
 
 
Comment by Red Beach
2010-09-21 02:42:15

Debate renews: Dream or nightmare of home ownership?

“To own or not to own” is once again a raging debate in the media. And it’s top of mind among renters wary of getting stuck in a home with declining value, and among existing homeowners trying to sell into a market of skeptical bargain hunters.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/article1122871.ece

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-21 03:00:03

The recession is over, except

* OPINION
* SEPTEMBER 21, 2010

The Recession and the Housing Drag

The more the government tries to prevent prices from finding an equilibrium, the longer it will take for the economy to begin growing again.

By MORTIMER ZUCKERMAN

A decent house has long been a symbol of middle-class American family life. Practically, it has been a secure shelter for the children and provided access to a good public education. And financially, it has been regarded as a safe store of value, a shield against the vagaries of the economy and a long-term retirement asset.

All that seems a distant memory for the millions of American families who must confront the decline in the value of their homes. The pressure to meet mortgage payments on properties that have lost value has been especially shocking for those who have lost their jobs in the Great Recession. Their houses have become a ball and chain, restricting their ability to seek employment elsewhere. They cannot afford to abandon the remaining equity they have in their houses—and they can’t sell in this miserable market.

New home sales, pending home sales, and mortgage applications are down to a 13-year low, despite long-term mortgage rates that plummeted recently to an average 4.3% before rising slightly. New home prices have fallen by an average of 30%. According to David Rosenberg, chief economist at Gluskin Sheff, this has reduced home occupancy cost to 15% of family incomes, down from the conventional 25%.

The fall in house prices has eaten away at the equity Americans have in their homes. About 11 million residential properties have mortgage balances that exceed the home’s value, notes Mr. Rosenberg. And given the total inventory of homes and the shadow inventory of 3.7 million empty (foreclosed) homes, he notes that prices might fall another 5% to 10%. That would leave an estimated 40% of American homeowners with mortgages in excess of the value of their homes.

Disappearing equity invites strategic defaults. Homeowners with negative equity are tempted simply to mail in their keys to their friendly lender even if they can afford the mortgage payment. Yet banks don’t want to take the deflated properties onto their books because they will then have to declare a financial loss and still have to worry about maintaining the properties. Little wonder, according to Mr. Rosenberg, that foreclosure has not been enforced on a quarter of the people who haven’t made a single mortgage payment in the last two years.

A staggering eight million home loans are in some state of delinquency, default or foreclosure, Alan Abelson reported in Barron’s in July. He noted that another eight million homeowners are estimated to have mortgages representing 95% or more of the value of their homes, leaving them with 5% or less equity in their homes and thus vulnerable to further price declines.

Comment by Captain Credit Crunch
2010-09-21 07:55:51

“According to David Rosenberg, chief economist at Gluskin Sheff, this has reduced home occupancy cost to 15% of family incomes, down from the conventional 25%.”

There are numerous $650000 homes in my area that look like a shack and I would NEVER consider paying that much for. With $130000 down, and assuming 1.5% property taxes and $2000 yearly in homeowner’s insurance, the payment comes out to almost $3600 a month. Maybe $3200 a month after taxes are deducted.

15% of our (presumably) gross income, as the author suggests, would be $2500 monthly. Please point me to the homes in my hood that are 15% of my family’s income (either gross or net). I can definitely (and DO) rent here for LESS than $2500 monthly.

They have to be commensurate in quality with our income - - in other words, not a shack. This guy’s smoking crack.

Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 03:27:55

As you know, that’s what we’re seeing here.

Much, much more affordable to remain in our rental.

 
 
Comment by polly
2010-09-21 09:52:10

I barely know where to begin on criticizing this. Perhaps at the beginning.

“And financially, it has been regarded as a safe store of value, a shield against the vagaries of the economy and a long-term retirement asset.”

How long has anyone ever really held this belief? A house, if you can pay it off before retirement, can relieve you of the need to pay rent while retired allowing for a comfortable life with reduced income. Isn’t that what most people really did with their houses? My grandparents on one side and all the great aunts and uncles did. I know that there is this fantasy that everyone was going to sell and move to Florida and Arizona and Arkansas, etc. but were they really? Yes, some did. It is a real lifestyle. But I don’t think the percentage is all that high. At least it isn’t if you are from Ohio or Indiana.

“Their houses have become a ball and chain, restricting their ability to seek employment elsewhere. They cannot afford to abandon the remaining equity they have in their houses—and they can’t sell in this miserable market.”

The second sentence is so full of contradictions it is almost a work of art. What do you mean they can’t afford to abandon the remaining equity? If you have equity you can sell it and take it out in cash (less costs). That isn’t abandoning it - that is realizing it. And why can’t they sell in this miserable market. If you put up the house for a good price someone will buy it in most places. If he is implying that you can’t get “market price” in a bad market, that is just a misunderstanding of the idea of market price. If he is trying to say that they won’t make any money if they sell for what the market price is, then they don’t have any equity. I think (not sure) that he is implying that they can’t afford to sell at market price because they can’t abandon the gains that that will get if they can wait until prices go back up. Very different idea and not at all what he wrote.

“Yet banks don’t want to take the deflated properties onto their books because they will then have to declare a financial loss and still have to worry about maintaining the properties”

Sigh. And we have another person who doesn’t understand that there is little chance that the banks actually have the mortgages of the loans they service on their balance sheets. Not the business model anymore. They don’t foreclose because they get paid for servicing the loan, not informing the bond holders that they now own a house worth 80% of the outstanding balance.

Oh, and on an entirely separate note, he quoted someone who said that traditional cost of occupying a home is 25% of income. Current programs designed to give homeowners a break are pegged to 31% of gross income. Those are unsustainable payments. I know I sounds like a broken record when I say it, but there it is anyway.

Sorry for the rant. I needed it.

Comment by lavi d
2010-09-21 11:16:30

Sorry for the rant. I needed it.

I always appreciate your writing and insight, Polly.

Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 03:29:51

Ditto. Great post, Polly.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-09-21 11:46:47

Current programs designed to give homeowners a break are pegged to 31% of gross income. Those are unsustainable payments.

And didn’t you recently point out that, in your case, 31% of your gross pay is about 66% of your net pay? Talk about an alligator chomping on your money.

Comment by polly
2010-09-21 12:30:25

Yup.

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Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-09-21 12:18:51

Back in the day, everyone wanted to be a landowner, so they didn’t have to “give away” their crop to pay rent. Owning a farm free and clear has merit…….at least you can feed yourself.

Only within the past 40 years or so has this morphed into “homeowner”.

Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 17:30:19

You might want to read up on the Florida housing boom/bust of the 1930s.

Owning your own home has been a much sought after goal since recorded history.

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Comment by jetson_boy
2010-09-21 13:32:22

“I know that there is this fantasy that everyone was going to sell and move to Florida and Arizona and Arkansas, etc. but were they really? Yes, some did. It is a real lifestyle. But I don’t think the percentage is all that high. At least it isn’t if you are from Ohio or Indiana.”

I’ve never understood that line of thinking -especially from people that live in states like Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio. If people like them really want to move to be somewhere warmer… then why not just go ahead and move? Its not like the economy in those states are all that great and many of the same jobs that used to be plentiful in the midwest- like auto manufacturing- have moved down South anyway.

And yes… a LOT of midwesterners move to the South. My folks live in TN and they are getting inundated.

Comment by lavi d
2010-09-21 13:41:46

I’ve never understood that line of thinking -especially from people that live in states like Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio.

For decades, it was the norm for many eastern folk to buy a small shack in Tucson to use in the winter months.

I seem to recall reading not too long ago that many of these “Snowbirds” decided after a while that being near the grandkids year-round was more attractive than a warm winter.

Or maybe that happens when they get older and can’t drive the mo-home any more…

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-09-21 14:04:45

I seem to recall reading not too long ago that many of these “Snowbirds” decided after a while that being near the grandkids year-round was more attractive than a warm winter.

True, true, lavi. Matter of fact, when I was visiting my aunt in VT, I spent a day at the state capitol. Aunt Jean’s a volunteer tour guide there.

While Jean was off giving a tour, I got to talking with the rookie tour guide she was training. She’d recently moved back to VT from FL. Reason: She wanted to be near the kids and grandkids.

 
Comment by polly
2010-09-21 14:14:26

They also wanted to go back to the areas with more medical specialists as they got older.

I have no doubt that folks moved south. I just don’t see that they did it after extracting a few hundred thousand bucks of “nest egg” out of their northern houses. How many people can actually do that who don’t have substantial other savings? It was a nice fantasy during the bubble, but it can’t have been realistic before the bubble. I’d think the more common thing was to take a substantial but not gigantic pension (whether private or public) and take it down south to maintain a standard of living on less income.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-09-21 14:29:11

I’d think the more common thing was to take a substantial but not gigantic pension (whether private or public) and take it down south to maintain a standard of living on less income.

That’s what my mother’s mother did. Until her sister kicked her out of the house in FL.

Then Grandma came up to PA and expected a crash with my family. My mother, who valued her marriage to my father more than having Grandma underfoot and complaining all the time, found her a nearby apartment.

 
 
 
Comment by exeter
2010-09-21 18:42:51

Thank you Polly.

 
 
Comment by Bill In Los Angeles
2010-09-21 20:04:54

Very sad.

Wait. Neither my sisters nor I own real estate.

Not sad.

 
Comment by Foo bar
2010-09-22 05:14:11

> He noted that another eight million homeowners are estimated to have mortgages representing 95% or more of the value of their homes, leaving them with 5% or less equity in their homes and thus vulnerable to further price declines.

The original article in Barron’s says that the banks would be vulnerable (which makes sense; it’s the bank that eat losses if a homeowner is willing to walk away once the house is underwater). Somehow in the translation to Mr. Zuckerman’s article, it became the homeowners who were at risk of going underwater, not the banks. Interesting.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-21 03:17:22

Given that new home sales have dried up to a paltry trickle, I am puzzled by what is driving up home-builder earnings these days?

* LARGE STOCK FOCUS
* SEPTEMBER 21, 2010

Financials, Home Builders Lead Stocks Higher
By KRISTINA PETERSON

Stocks rallied to their highest level in more than four months as encouraging financial and home-builder earnings boosted confidence in the economic recovery.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average surged 145.77 points, or 1.4%, to 10753.62, its highest close since May 13 and its biggest point and percentage gain since Sept. 1. The measure has climbed 7.4% this month, its best September performance to date since 1939.

Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 17:33:01

The system is being gamed for year-end bone-us’s.

Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-21 21:53:10

“bone-us’s”

More like bone-you’s

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-21 03:24:00

WSJ Blogs
MarketBeat
WSJ.com’s inside look at the markets

* Bond Buyers Beware!
* U.S. Stocks Look Peachy Keen, But Euro Spreads Don’t
* September 20, 2010, 9:40 AM ET

Theme of the Week: A Housing Data Hoedown
By Matt Phillips

Besides the Fed rate decision Tuesday, a deluge of housing data hits the market this week. In their always-helpful morning trading note, Credit Suisse market wonks lay out the week’s game plan:

The focus this week is clearly on housing, starting with the NAHB Housing Market Index at 10 a.m., which might set the tone for the subsequent reports. The consensus is looking for a 14 reading, after a 13 in August that was the lowest since March 2009. Tomorrow, aside from the one-day Fed meeting, we also get Housing Starts and Building Permits. No one is expecting any dramatic improvement in the housing data, nor is anyone expecting any further quantitative easing from the Fed (given recent glimmers of hope seen in the figures such as ISM). Wednesday delivers MBA Mortgage Apps and the FHFA House Price Index, not to mention the DOE Oil/Gas inventory results. Thursday brings Jobless Claims, Existing Home Sales, Leading Economic Indicators and RPX Housing Price data. Friday finishes up with more housing info in the form of New Home Sales, as well as Durable Goods numbers.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-21 03:26:46

Homebuilder Confidence in U.S. Held in September at Lowest Level in a Year
By Courtney Schlisserman - Sep 20, 2010 8:48 AM PT

Confidence among U.S. homebuilders in September unexpectedly held at the lowest level in more than a year, showing the housing market remains depressed following the expiration of a government tax credit.

The National Association of Home Builders/Wells Fargo confidence index was unchanged at 13, matching the August reading as the lowest since March 2009, data from the Washington-based group showed today. The gauge was projected to rise to 14, according to the median forecast of 50 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News.

Home sales will be slow to improve as unemployment hovers near 10 percent and foreclosures mount, preventing builders including Hovnanian Enterprises Inc. from taking advantage of record-low mortgage rates. A tax incentive of as much as $8,000 provided only temporary relief for housing, the industry that precipitated the worst recession since the 1930s.

It’s hard to see where the impetus for growth for housing is going to come from,” said David Semmens, an economist at Standard Chartered Bank in New York who forecast the index would be unchanged. “The employment situation keeps people very much on the back foot and remaining in their existing homes.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2010-09-21 08:02:16

Why are the home builders building in a historic oversupply market of foreclosures ?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-09-21 08:17:11

Because they can’t help themselves. Building houses is what they do.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2010-09-21 08:32:51

People keep loaning them money, and therefore the paychecks keep flowing?

Comment by arizonadude
2010-09-21 08:53:00

In some areas like san diego they have kept the distressed inventory off the market.When people get frustrated chasing short sales they say screw it and look at new homes that are easier to buy, close on.

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Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 03:34:20

Yes, there is very little inventory in San Diego (especially low inventory in 2009-early 2010). Builders have been able to build and sell in almost every subdivision.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-21 03:30:41

Official end of recession doesn’t spell relief
Carolyn Said, Chronicle Staff Writer

Tuesday, September 21, 2010

On Monday, an authoritative assembly of economists said the recession that started in December 2007 has been over since June 2009.

That declaration is likely to be cold comfort for Americans seeking jobs, watching savings evaporate and struggling to stave off foreclosure.

Saying the recession has ended “has as much to do with good economics as saccharin does with French cooking,” said Peter Morici, an economics professor at the University of Maryland, who charged that the committee was dominated by Democrats trying to give their party an election-year boost.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-21 03:33:59

Long-term increase in US unemployment ‘possible’, warns OECD

Millions of Americans risk falling out of the job market forever, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) has warned, as it cautioned a full recovery from recession will take years.

By Richard Blackden, US Business Editor
Published: 5:43PM BST 20 Sep 2010

Comment by packman
2010-09-21 06:32:58

The wages (or lack thereof) of our anti-deflation sentiment.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2010-09-21 12:04:24

The public sector layoffs haven’t even started yet, at least not in our area. I did see Buffalo made some announcements. It sounds like the state is planning on some cuts before Jan 1st but its amazing what gets saved at the 11th hour in NY.

Comment by Bill In Los Angeles
2010-09-21 20:09:47

Public sector layoffs are the real harbinger of the end of the economic crisis. They are the last fired and last hired, as the market hires private sector people who pass their probationary periods.

As a consultant, when I go to a new gig, I go through a probationary period. Some managers don’t admit it. Sometimes they give you three months of probation, sometimes 2 weeks. If you don’t demonstrate that you can fit in and handle the statement of work, you are out.

I’m used to it. Millions of people of all ages will have to go through what I have become accustomed to for then years as an engineering consultant.

This will be good for America. Builds character.

 
 
 
Comment by Yensoy
2010-09-21 04:00:37

Just a passing thought…

You might be following the news that things are a bit heated between Japan and China. Also you might have seen the recent surge in the Japanese yen that is ringing alarm bells in Tokyo.

Now do you consider it plausible that the yen is being manipulated by China to stir the pot? I don’t have the sequence or causality worked out but the correlation is striking.

Comment by warlock
2010-09-21 06:46:14

Correlation does not mean causation - and in any case, it’s a much interesting situation than that. If you look at the M2 figures for Japan versus USA or China, you’ll see that that the total quantity of their currency has hardly expanded at all, whilst the US’s has doubled in 10 years, and China’s has quadrupled in 10.

In other words Japan has a stable money supply, while nobody else does. This puts their Central Bank Intervention in a slightly different light i suspect.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-09-21 04:27:16

I have always been amazed at the moron shopping masses that will line up or camp out for a piece of plastic crap. They are well trained, so what will be the “must” have throw away toy for the little chidrens this year.

Cuteness likely to rule the holiday toy roost
As holidays near, cute and collectible reign among toys; can they duplicate Zhu Zhu success?

NEW YORK — It’s getting crowded in the race to succeed Zhu Zhu Pets as the next hot holiday toy.

From plush dolls that harmonize to tiny people and animals stored in bubbles in toy vending machines, collectibility and cuteness are off the charts for this year’s toys.

But with so many toys vying to win “Most Adorable,” it remains to be seen if any will duplicate the runaway success of the Zhu Zhu Pets, toy hamsters that squeak, zoom around on wheels and sell for just $10.

For toy sellers, making the right picks early is crucial so they have the right mixture of toys at the right prices to lure gift givers to buy. The right bet can mean the difference between being in stock or out of the year’s must-have playthings in a season that can account for the bulk of a toy retailer’s annual profit.

Toys R Us, which came out with its “hot toy” list on Tuesday, is betting on a few contenders for the cute crown. Those include Blip Toys’ Squinkies, tiny figures that fit inside a toy dispensing machines and come in 16 packs for $10; Mattel Inc.’s $12.99 Sing-a-ma-jigs, colorful plush dolls that harmonize; and $19.99 Pillow Pets, stuffed animals that convert into pillows.

Comment by packman
2010-09-21 06:35:27

It’s the pandering-to-our-children mindset that’s been prevalent in the U.S. for about 30 years now.

My first awareness of it was with cabbage patch kids.

Comment by REhobbyist
2010-09-21 15:07:19

I’m sorry, guys, but fads have been around forever. How about the Charleston and raccoon coats in the 20’s? zoot suits in the 40’s? I had to have a Barbie doll in 1960.

The difference back then was that I only got one Barbie doll to last me for my entire childhood. Nowadays you have to have a whole collection of them.

 
Comment by Bill In Los Angeles
2010-09-21 20:11:48

Thanks Packman for saying something long on my mind for the last three decades but I did not find the words:

“pandering-to-our-children mindset”

Says it all.

 
 
Comment by oxide
2010-09-21 07:05:59

Gone are the days when families got a REAL pet under Christmas tree, in a box with holes in it. I guess our schedules are too busy to just plain get a dog.

Comment by mikey
2010-09-21 07:40:05

Gone are the days when families got a REAL pet under Christmas tree, in a box with holes in it. I guess our schedules are too busy to just plain get a dog.”

Dogs, cats, horses and even hamsters will be looking for new homes in this recession. Going to be rough on our once beloved critter friends. They can be expensive.

My BIL is a large and small animal veterinarian and is in touch with other vets. They see a lot of people that can no longer afford to medical care and upkeep of many critters and they frquently ask him and my sister to help with placement of them in good homes.

It’s so much better that they ask for assistance rather than abandoning them along side of the road or something.

Comment by In Montana
2010-09-21 08:53:53

Plenty of pets as far as I can see. I’ve gone door to door in the new developments of Tyvex crapshacks on tiny lots, with no fence, and couldn’t believe how many of these families were keeping multiple LARGE dogs. What’s up with that?? Is it “for the children” or what?

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-09-21 09:01:20

Plenty of pets as far as I can see. I’ve gone door to door in the new developments of Tyvex crapshacks on tiny lots, with no fence, and couldn’t believe how many of these families were keeping multiple LARGE dogs. What’s up with that?? Is it “for the children” or what?

It’s a way of intimidating others. This is accomplished via incessant barking, and plenty of it, and woe to you if you should try to speak with these people about controlling the noise.

However, we in the peace-and-quiet movement are finding ways to fight back. Learn how at BarkingDogs.net.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2010-09-21 10:32:48

I’m also seeing a lot of pets. Of course that doesn’t mean that people aren’t cutting back on trips to the vet or buying HeartGuard pills for their dogs.

 
Comment by Bill In Los Angeles
2010-09-21 20:15:33

AzSlim (my kind of gal),

Not only chronic barking dogs, but the “Cheney’s first name”-heads who drive Harleys make my blood boil.

 
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2010-09-21 23:12:35

The multiple large dogs may be former homeowners.

 
 
 
Comment by lavi d
2010-09-21 09:50:23

Gone are the days when families got a REAL pet under Christmas tree, in a box with holes in it. I guess our schedules are too busy to just plain get a dog.

I’d rather the idiots abandon a robot than a real dog, though when they get tired of it.

 
Comment by REhobbyist
2010-09-21 15:12:44

No, pets like cats and dogs are more popular than ever. But people don’t consider how much it costs to keep a pet. Just like they don’t think about how much it costs to stop at Starbucks everyday.

Comment by Bill In Los Angeles
2010-09-21 20:23:45

I am no PETA type of guy, but I hate it when people abuse pets. I hate it when they abandon them. I saw a note the other day posted on the bulletin board at my apartment building here in L.A. about kittens found in a burlap bag in the nearby park. Asking for a home.

My rant is that if you want a pet, you better consider several issues: You have to be stationary for your job. It’s very hard to move every year and have to find a place that accepts pets. If your job is outsourcable or if you are on shakey ground for getting a salary cut or a layoff, you better not have a pet. No excuses - you really do know if you are valuable for the company or not.

Next, you better have an income stream of $500 per month to cover major pet ills. They can happen. An Italian greyhound has skinny legs, for example. They get lots of problems with their “toothpick” legs, costing hundreds of dollars. You better be prepared.

Having a pet is a very responsible thing and all the costs better be thought about. The same people who don’t think pets ever get sick are the same people who think they will never have to worry about paying maintenance on their houses.

That is my rant. Too many idiots in America.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-21 04:40:44

Sept. 21, 2010, 12:01 a.m. EDT

Believe it or not
Commentary: If this is a recovery, what will the next recession be like?
By Irwin Kellner, MarketWatch

PORT WASHINGTON, N.Y. (MarketWatch) — The umpire of the business cycle has called the recession over but the players want to review the tape.

According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, the U.S. economy stopped falling in June of 2009. This implies that business conditions bottomed out some 15 months ago and have been improving ever since. See full story on NBER.

Hello? The real world would beg to differ with this call. If what we have experienced since June 2009 is a recovery, many would shudder to think what the next recession will be like.

The man or woman on the street views the economy through the prism of jobs. What they see depresses them.

Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2010-09-21 08:17:35

We are being told that the odds of falling into another recession (that is, if you are one of those delusional economists that believe this one is over) is 25%. Hell, the odds of killing yourself playing Russian Roulette are lower. Looks like another recession is just around the corner.

 
Comment by DinOR
2010-09-21 11:15:11

“but the players want to review the tape”

Get that Tivo I sent cha’ Irwin? ( Oh… given his age that’s understandable, and accurate! )

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2010-09-21 05:14:49

The Entitlement Bubble: The Bust Is Going to Be a Nightmare (Worse than the Housing Bubble?)
National Review | 09/17/2010 | Kevin Williamson

The first and most obvious thing is that in much of the real world, liabilities of that type are defined as debt, as your favorite corporate accountant will tell you. One of the reasons that American companies started filing all those unhappy financial restatements after the passage of Obamacare was that they had a whole lot of new, measurable, real-world financial liabilities, and they are obliged to include those in their disclosures. As one of our commentators answered the above criticism:

Many promises to pay are categorized as debt according to GAAP and accounting body authorities. If government were required to report like public companies a lot of the promises would show as debt. So if you don’t believe that GAAP correctly classifies debt and that the thousands of SEC filings are wrong it’s your prerogative, but you’d better keep your day job and not become a CPA or one responsible to produce SEC financials.

Maybe you object to the word “debt,” but it’s still $100 trillion or so on the wrong side of the balance sheet.

Here’s the problem: Those “paper losses” were preceded by “paper profits,” meaning people thought that they had an extra $100,000 in assets, and they made consumption, borrowing, investment, saving, and working decisions accordingly. The simplest illustration: Your $100,000 house, which is paid for, has gone up to $200,000 on the market at the top of the bubble. If you took out a $50,000 home-equity loan against 100 percent equity in your (at the time) $200,000 house, you still had $150,000 of equity, no mortgage, $50,000 in cash, and a $50,000 equity loan to pay off. If the market value of your house crashes back to $100,000, you still have no mortgage, $50,000 in cash, and a $50,000 loan to pay off, and the same house; you haven’t really lost anything (other than opportunity cost), since the house is still worth what you paid for it; and you only make your paper losses real if you sell the house while the market is down.

But anybody who thinks your financial situation hasn’t changed is nuts. Your equity debt has gone from 25 percent of the value of your house to 50 percent. Your credit profile has changed. Any other debts have just become significantly larger relative to the value of your biggest asset. (And your other assets, like your 401(k), probably are not in great shape, either.)

Whatever you’d planned to do with that $50,000, you probably are going to think twice about doing. If it was straight-up consumption, you’ll probably forgo the bass boat and pay back your loan. If it was for home improvements, why sink another $50,000 into a house that’s worth half of what it was, making a $150,000 investment in a $100,000 house? Your economic decisions will change.

Which brings us back to the entitlements. It’s easy to say: Well, we’ll just raise the retirement age, or cut benefits, or means-test them, or raise taxes on the wealthy who receive them (which amounts to means-testing, but Democrats like that version better). And, yes, that probably is what we will do, eventually. But that does not get us out of the economic pickle: People have been making decisions for years and years — decisions about saving, investing, consuming, working, and retiring — based at least in some part on what are almost certainly faulty assumptions about what sort of Social Security, Medicare, and other benefits they will receive when they retire. When those disappear, a lot of consumption is going to have to be forgone — and a lot of capital dedicated to producing those goods and services for consumption will be massively devalued. Businesses will have to retrench, probably in a way that is more disruptive and more expensive than the housing-bubble recession necessitated.

Comment by rms
2010-09-21 06:42:19

Sure is nice to have zero revolving debt, mortgage prepaid through 01-MAR-2011 with $25,700.00 balance due.

Comment by REhobbyist
2010-09-21 15:21:55

nice, rms. Pat yourself on the back. :-)

Comment by rms
2010-09-21 17:30:42

Thanks for the kudos. FWIW, I’m supporting a family of four on one income in a suburban middle-class lifestyle complete with medical, dental and vision benefits — out of pocket!

My 401k is underfunded though, so I’ve got to stoke that once the house is paid in full. But five years out, the “nut-to-crunch” will be my daughter’s college tuition. She’s bright, and has always been a 3.9+ student who reads, speaks and writes in English and German. I’ll eat dog food to see her through the gauntlet.

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Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 17:41:54

Good for you.

My parents decided I should eat dog food instead of going to college.

 
 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2010-09-21 07:15:24

People have been making decisions for years and years — decisions about saving, investing, consuming, working, and retiring — based at least in some part on what are almost certainly faulty assumptions about what sort of Social Security, Medicare, and other benefits they will receive when they retire.

All the retirement calculators I’ve seen include a little box for Social Security, which the calculator will to the rest of your monthly retirement income. I put a “0″ in that little box, and so does every half-awake person under the age of 40.

I’m planning on a podunk retirement.

Comment by Bill In Los Angeles
2010-09-21 20:27:17

The easiest thing to do was to base your savings on thinking that there will NOT be any social security or medicare for you after you retire. That’s been my mindset since my 30s. This made my life easier, as I was determined to save more and spend less than my contemporary.

Marrriage and kids were too expensive in this planning.

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2010-09-21 07:58:16

People have been making decisions for years and years — decisions about saving, investing, consuming, working, and retiring — based at least in some part on what are almost certainly faulty assumptions about what sort of Social Security, Medicare, and other benefits they will receive when they retire.

Yeah like me who is getting screwed by super low interest rates on savings. I sweated the planning decisions for decades and still things didn’t work out right.

Comment by Blue Skye
2010-09-21 08:03:04

You and I are not so screwed as those paying interest on their accumulations.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2010-09-21 08:12:11

You are not as screwed as someone paying interest on their massive accumulations.

Comment by Blue Skye
2010-09-21 09:59:00

I guess that error message didn’t mean what I thought it meant.

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Comment by DinOR
2010-09-21 11:20:44

Blue Skye,

LOL! Yeah, wasn’t sure myself? Dennis has a point though, of course we could always just fatten up on triple B neg. paper..?

By the by, I really must object to the term Obama-care. It’s just such a distortion. It seems to imply ( post-passage ) like he was the only guy in America that was pulling for it? ( No Sarc )

Like Joe Walsh was fond of saying “You bought it, You name it!” With “supporters” like that ( who could afford enemies? )

 
 
 
 
Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 03:44:40

Very good post, 2banana.

I think this is going to play out big-time in the next few years, and this includes all the public sector workers who have been able to spend most of their earnings because they were relying on their pensions for retirement.

IMHO, those benefits are going to be slashed in the coming years, and the employees are going to have to pay more from their current wages for those reduced benefits. I think this is going to be the next big deflationary wave.

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2010-09-21 05:17:19

Time Magazine Cover Story Says You Should Never Buy A House Again

Business Insider | 09/13/2010 | Jeff Matthews

The stock market may be dragging, but home prices are soaring, fueling a national obsession with real estate. Your house is now your piggy bank.

—“Home Sweet Home,” Time Magazine, June 2005

Buying a house is supposed to make us better citizens, better investors and better off. But that American Dream may well be a fantasy.

—“The Case Against Homeownership,” Time Magazine, September 2010

..

The Cover Story of all Cover Stories, as any investor with grey hair will tell you, is the fabled “Death of Equities” BusinessWeek cover story from August 13, 1979 (“How inflation is destroying the stock market”),

Comment by oxide
2010-09-21 10:18:21

I copied the Home Sweet Home article from the library to give to a co-worker. Dang, what a puff piece!! But they did CYA with a little sidbar: “The case for renting.”

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 17:45:13

No doubt someone is reading this blog and is using the “when the MSM says not to buy house, it’s the bottom” technique, because the truth is, it’s still going to be few more years.

Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 03:46:01

Agreed.

 
 
Comment by bungalowball
2010-09-21 18:04:39

Perhaps it is a ploy to get people to want to buy houses… It has been printed in many places that the “time to buy” will be when magazines like this start doing articles about housing being permanently dead. Perhaps Time simply decided to comply…

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-21 21:58:14

“The Case Against Homeownership,” Time Magazine, September 2010

Time to buy = 2012, allowing a lag for this cover story to permeate the sheeples’ subconscious?

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-09-21 05:31:51

Fed to ponder whether bolder action needed
Fed wrestles with whether bolder action is needed to strengthen economy.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Federal Reserve policymakers are wrestling with what additional steps — if any — should be taken to strengthen the plodding economy and drive down near double-digit unemployment.

Lots of lively debate is expected at Tuesday’s meeting. But few expect any major programs to be unveiled. Instead, many will be looking to see if the Fed offers new clues about the timing of any new aid and what changes in the economy would trigger such a move. To give the Fed extra time for discussions, Tuesday’s meeting is scheduled to start around 8 a.m. — earlier than when it has two-day sessions.

There are differing views on the Fed’s main policymaking group — the Federal Open Markets Committee — about what should be done. And some pressure is off after a few mildly positive economic reports showed the pace of layoffs has slowed, shoppers’ appetites to spend has picked up and factory production is growing.

The reports have helped to ease concerns about the economy slipping back into a new recession, giving the Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke and his colleagues a little breathing room.

Comment by tj
2010-09-21 09:53:25

Fed wrestles with whether bolder action is needed to strengthen economy.

they mean to say.. “fed wrestles with whether ‘dumber’ action is needed to strengthen the economy.

they don’t seem to understand that the fed can only try to provide a stable currency to help the economy. anything else is BS.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-09-21 05:33:08

Bank of America Said to Fire as Many as 400 Employees

Bank of America Corp. , the largest U.S. bank by assets, is firing as many as 400 employees in its global banking and markets division after a management review, according to a person briefed on the matter.

Bank of America Corp., the largest U.S. lender by assets, is firing as many as 400 employees in its global banking and markets division as revenue from trading and advising clients declines, a person briefed on the matter said.

The moves follow a review led by Thomas Montag, the former Goldman Sachs Group Inc. partner who joined the Charlotte, North Carolina-based bank through the purchase of Merrill Lynch & Co. in 2009. Employees ranging in seniority from managing directors to junior analysts will be affected by immediate dismissals, the person said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the decision hasn’t been publicly announced.

Comment by combotechie
2010-09-21 05:44:36

“… as revenue from trading and advising clients declines …”

Ah, yes. Good news abounds. The Market is shedding itself of fluff and getting back to basics.

Ummm … bargains will be everywhere - for those who have the money, that is.

 
Comment by packman
2010-09-21 05:59:36

No offense, but not sure if company with 283,000 employees laying off 400 is really newsworthy.

But then I come from the telecom world, where we had 80,000-employee companies like Nortel and Lucent whacking 10,000 at a time, until they lost 70% of their workforce within about 3 years.

Just trying to keep it in perspective.

Comment by combotechie
2010-09-21 06:05:36

It’s the trend that is worth noting. The trend for the financials is pointing down.

It used to be the financials were adding to their ranks, now they’re doing some subtracting.

The turn is at hand. These major trends don’t turn on a dime. But once these major trends turn …

Comment by packman
2010-09-21 06:13:46

Perhaps. Are they really cutting back though, or is this just a one-time dead wood firing? The use of the term “fired” and “after management review” makes it seem like the latter - i.e. not a cost-cutting measure.

BofA had $3.1B in profit the past two quarters - not usually a company in cost-cutting mode.

Perhaps they’re seeing a bad quarter now though.

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Comment by combotechie
2010-09-21 06:17:44

“BofA had $3.1B if profits the past two quarters.”

The miracle of borrowing from the gov at zero percent and loaning back to the gov at three percent.

For this they need 283,000 employees?

 
Comment by packman
2010-09-21 06:24:49

I’d say more the miracle of having your toxic mortgage assets bought by the Fed/GSE’s.

How much are they really making in treasuries? I know we’ve commented about the “borrow at zero, loan at X” treasury thing before - but I’m not sure that’s actually a huge sum. Per the FDIC all financial institutions have a sum total of about $100B in treasuries; so BofA’s share is probably on the order of $10B let’s say, at most. At 3% per year that’s only $75M per quarter. Their total revenue is 500x that.

 
 
Comment by combotechie
2010-09-21 06:13:52

Yesterday there were reports of Wall Street suffering declines in trading volume.

Oh, the pain! Less volume means less chunks stripped from the hides of lemming investors.

And there’s yet more pain to come! The horror, the horror!

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Comment by ACH
2010-09-21 07:37:28

Declines in trading volume on a 137 point rally?

That which cannot be sustained, won’t be.

Roidy

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2010-09-21 05:39:19

“Quite frankly, I’m exhausted. I’m exhausted of defending you, defending your administration, defending the mantle of change that I voted for, and deeply disappointed with where we are right now. I have been told that I voted for a man who said he was going to change things in a meaningful way for the middle class. I’m one of those people. And I’m waiting, sir. I’m waiting. I — I don’t feel it yet … Is this my new reality?”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYQ8sxTsllk

Comment by WT Economist
2010-09-21 06:53:07

He promised health care reform; dithered and then passed a muddle that won’t provide benefits for years.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-09-21 07:56:59

Tell me about it. I’ve been trying to get better insurance — at a price I can afford — for years.

But, in my 50-plus age bracket, such a thing is all but impossible. ‘Bout all there is out there are those high-deductible policies with monthly premiums that rival my mortgage payment.

Reform, my arse.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2010-09-21 08:21:49

Tell me about it Arizona Slim ,those health policies are junk .If the
Federal Government and Health Care Companies think those policies are anything but non-coverage for a high price they are mistaken .

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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 09:18:51

But…ahhemm….

We have the best MEDICAL care in the world.
Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Florida)

World’s Best Medical Care? NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html

(The United States) scored poorly in coordinating the care of chronically ill patients, in protecting the safety of patients, and in meeting their needs and preferences, which drove our overall quality rating down to last place. American doctors and hospitals kill patients through surgical and medical mistakes more often than their counterparts in other industrialized nations.

Many Americans are under the delusion that we have “the best health care system in the world,”… That may be true at many top medical centers. But the disturbing truth is that this country lags well behind other advanced nations in delivering timely and effective care.

France best, US worst in preventable death ranking

WASHINGTON, Jan 8 (Reuters) - France, Japan and Australia rated best and the United States worst in new rankings focusing on preventable deaths due to treatable conditions in 19 leading industrialized nations,

The World Health Organization’s ranking
of the world’s health systems.
1 France 2 Italy

36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

Number of uninsured Americans rises to 50.7 million USA TODAY
A record rise in the number of people without health insurance …More than 50 million people were uninsured last year, almost one in six U.S. residents…The percentage with private insurance was the lowest since the government began keeping data in 1987

US ranks last among 7 countries on health system performance

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-06/cf-url062210.php

Despite having the most expensive health care system, the United States ranks last overall compared to six other industrialized countries—Australia, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom—on measures of health system performance in five areas: quality, efficiency, access to care, equity and the ability to lead long, healthy, productive lives, according to a new Commonwealth Fund report…the U.S. stands out for not getting good value for its health care dollars, ranking last despite spending $7,290 per capita on health care in 2007 compared to the $3,837 spent per capita in the Netherlands, which ranked first overall.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 09:31:09

More from the Article posted above on America’s “best MEDICAL care in the world”

World’s Best Medical Care? NYT

Life and death. In a comparison of five countries, the United States had the …worst for kidney transplants, and almost-worst for liver transplants and colorectal cancer….United States ranked last in years of potential life lost to circulatory diseases, respiratory diseases and diabetes and had the second highest death rate from bronchitis, asthma and emphysema. …it seems likely that the quality of care delivered was a significant contributor.

…many Americans hold surprisingly negative views of their health care system. …only 40 percent of Americans were satisfied with the nation’s health care system, placing us 14th out of 17 countries… American attitudes stand out as the most negative, with a third of the adults surveyed calling for rebuilding the entire system, compared with only 13 percent who feel that way in Britain and 14 percent in Canada.

…Americans face higher out-of-pocket costs than citizens elsewhere, are less apt to have a long-term doctor, less able to see a doctor on the same day when sick, and less apt to get their questions answered or receive clear instructions from a doctor.

…Shockingly, despite our vaunted prowess in computers, software and the Internet, much of our health care system is still operating in the dark ages of paper records and handwritten scrawls. American primary care doctors lag years behind doctors in other advanced nations …This makes it harder to coordinate care, spot errors and adhere to standard clinical guidelines.

We tend to think that our very best medical centers are the best in the world. But whether this is a realistic assessment or merely a cultural preference for the home team is difficult to say.

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Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 03:56:12

Gosh, Rio. It can’t be! The “capitalists” keep telling us how great our healthcare system is!

/snark

I strongly favor universal healthcare for all, with a private cash/insurance option for those who choose to pay for it. What we have isn’t working, and what Obama did with his reform was throw us under the bus and give more $$$ to the insurance companies.

 
 
 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2010-09-21 07:13:11

Clearly racist. What appears to be a black woman is actually a laid-off construction worker in drag.

Comment by jeff saturday
2010-09-21 14:55:07

“Clearly racist. What appears to be a black woman is actually a laid-off construction worker in drag.”

If that was not a black woman who was a government employee that voted for the big O but someone else who fit a different criteria we would probably know all about the back taxes she had not payed, the child support that had not been payed bad credit cards and the eggs she threw at the neighbors house on hackers night Oct 30 when she was 11 years old by now. Maybe if her name was something like like Joe.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 15:23:13

“Clearly racist. What appears to be a black woman is actually a laid-off construction worker in drag.”

A funny comment from that video:

solo1y: I’ve never seen so many racist conservative schmucks rushing to defend a black person. Something great came from this video.

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Comment by salinasron
2010-09-21 12:46:43

“I have been told that I voted for a man who said he was going to change things in a meaningful way for the middle class. ”

Some how I missed the word ‘meaningful way’, I only heard that people ‘hoped for change’ and from where I sit they got what they wished for. I think we ought to vote him back in in 2012 so they get more of what they wished for and then maybe we’ll get a sense of reality back in this country.

Comment by lavi d
2010-09-21 13:25:12

…then maybe we’ll get a sense of reality back in this country.

I wonder how many times we’ll have to flip back and forth between parties before that happens…

It’s like constantly twisting the knob on a two-channel TV hoping for something better to be on.

Comment by Carl Morris
2010-09-21 14:39:43

Nice. Having grown up in a 3-channel house, that does capture the feeling quite well.

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Comment by MightyMike
2010-09-21 19:01:49

I recently got cable TV after not having it for 9 years. I was actually getting my TV from an old school antenna. So I went from having 12 channels to about 70. It’s amazing how often I can surf through all 70 channels and find nothing to watch. Like a lot of people on this blog, I don’t watch much TV, but there’s usually about hour at night where I’m not quite tired enough to go to bed, but too tired to do much of anything except stare at the TV.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2010-09-21 05:49:39

Ron Paul

This past week the administration announced its choice for the first credit czar at the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. This bureau was created as part of the supposed Wall Street reform bill recently passed by Congress. This new bureau, which represents nothing more than another layer of useless Washington bureaucracy, will be housed within the Federal Reserve– one of the most anti-consumer institutions in Washington.

The truth is that this new bureau is just more of the same ineffective and damaging regulation we typically get from a crisis. Just as the FDA serves big pharmaceutical companies, not patients, and just as the SEC serves Wall Street, not investors, this agency will end up serving the banks. All regulatory agencies eventually become co-opted by the industries they regulate, and they become chiefly concerned with restricting the entry of new competitors and protecting market share for the big players. This new bureau is not likely to straighten out Wall Street, so much as it will instill a false sense of security in the public about banking and investing again.

 
Comment by packman
2010-09-21 05:56:00

Late last night:

Comment by tj
2010-09-20 21:12:10

I’m still looking for the buying power of the dollar to INCREASE as the amount of dollars continue to disappear into Puffville

nothing reduces the amount of dollars already in existence. the amount of dollars in existence has been steadily climbing since dollar were created.

if i’m wrong you should be able to show me some kind of proof, like a valid authentic graph that shows a decline in the number of dollars. i say that there has never been a reduction of dollars in existence in all of history. not even the great depression.

Here you go, tj. Note the M3 YoY reduction for about the past year (YoY less than 0).

There is no official publication of M3 - the SGS site is about the closest thing, as far as I know. There used to be an official M3 published by the Fed, but they stopped publishing it years ago, and SGS picked up with what was supposed to be the same methodology.

So yes - something can reduce the number of dollars in existence - that being loan paybacks, which are the opposite of money creation in a fractional reserve lending system. Loan loss writeoffs also reduce the amount of money in existence.

Comment by tj
2010-09-21 10:15:53

ah, mi amigo Packman!

thank you for taking the time to address my concern.

money supply does not equal dollars in existence.

money supply includes assets like stocks. but stocks are not dollars. you have to trade your dollars to get stocks. so the giant pool of dollars is unaffected by transactions within the pool.

nothing destroys dollars except by accident like fire, or the dollars aboard a ship sinking in the ocean.

you are one of the bright lights here Packman. i have learned from your posts. you have an open mind and if you give me a chance, i think i can prove to you that dollars in existence never get destroyed…

Comment by packman
2010-09-21 11:07:13

Let’s take this as a starting point:

Bank A has a current reserve ratio of 5:1. Requirements stipulate 10:1, so they have some padding.

Customer B comes along, and wants to build a house. Bank A loans him $100,000 for his mortgage; let’s say it’s 100% LTV for simplicity sake. It takes the bank’s reserve ratio down some, but still is OK.

Customer B pays the builder $100,000, and the builder builds customer B’s house.

$100,000 was just created, and put out into the general economy, was it not?

Comment by tj
2010-09-21 11:19:02

dollars in existence do become greater over time. i’m arguing that they never get destroyed, or become less in number..

give me an example where you think dollars get destroyed and i will try to explain how it is that they do not.

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Comment by packman
2010-09-21 12:17:05

OK well - assuming that you agree that in the above scenario $100,000 gets created (let me know if you don’t).

Step 2 - person B has a skill - say programming. He creates a killer app, and sells it to the homebuilder for exactly $100,000.

Person B then uses that $100,000 to pay off his mortgage.

$100,000 was just destroyed.

 
Comment by tj
2010-09-21 13:54:59

the debt was repaid or wiped out, but the dollars remain in existence. the creditor has them.

someone once asked me what would happen to the dollars in existence if the government suddenly shut down the stockmarket. i told him that no dollars would be destroyed.. the dollars in existence would remain the same. he didn’t believe me. but i demonstrated in an example that nothing happens to dollars when the market goes down. in the end he admitted that it was true.

in your example the dollars just go back to the lender as they should. the lender can spend them or lend them out again if he wishes. the dollars in existence are unaffected.

sorry the responses take so long to appear. i don’t know why they don’t show up right away. perhaps you are having the same trouble?

 
Comment by packman
2010-09-21 14:18:38

the creditor has them.

No it (the bank) doesn’t. It never did have them until it created them to loan them out. When the loan was returned, they were destroyed.

You need to learn about fractional reserve lending.

Let me suggest this video.

 
Comment by tj
2010-09-21 15:52:12

newly created dollars from the FED have to be exchanged for something of value before they themselves have any value. in your example they are given in exchange for a loan. the loan has given the dollars value.

dollars aren’t really money. they represent money. money is imaginary and as such it can’t be printed. but it is money that gives currency its value. neither money nor currency is destroyed when a loan gets repaid. the only thing ‘destroyed’ is the debt of the loan. it just means that a transaction has been completed. the value of the money through currency endures.

people think that debt is money and so when debt is repaid or extinguished, the money is too. but it isn’t. debt being money is only one side of the transaction. money is also an asset. the government’s debt is the currency holder’s asset.

only the loan gets wiped out. the currency or dollars are still in circulation even if they are in a bank vault, they are still considered to be in circulation. even if they are 1s and 0s in your bank account, they are still representing the value of money and are still in circulation.

no one’s bank accounts get reduced in any way when loans get repaid. the amount of currency in the world doesn’t get reduced. if that were true, then we’d all soon be penniless.

these videos are spreading dogma. their claims aren’t true.

currency can be created without banks and was created without banks in the early days. people, as you know, used to use goats or pigs or ears of corn as currency. they represented value and didn’t need debt to be brought into existence. they were brought into existence through savings. they represented the money of the farmer. his labor and skill. and they could be exchanged for other goods or currencies or for labor.

debt is just an intermediary part of an exchange between two parties. the period of debt can be very short or long depending on the agreement. when the debt is satisfied the transaction is complete. but as always, the currency and it’s value remain intact.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 04:03:19

If the reserve requirements are increased after the loan is paid back, then there will be fewer dollars to loan back into existence, no?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by skroodle
2010-09-21 05:59:22

UK Proposes All Paychecks Go to the State First

The UK’s tax collection agency is putting forth a proposal that all employers send employee paychecks to the government, after which the government would deduct what it deems as the appropriate tax and pay the employees by bank transfer.

The proposal by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC) stresses the need for employers to provide real-time information to the government so that it can monitor all payments and make a better assessment of whether the correct tax is being paid.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/39265847

Comment by rms
2010-09-21 06:49:02

All subjects(n.) must bend the knee.

Comment by rainmayun
2010-09-21 07:31:26

Looks more to me like they are bending at the waist.

 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2010-09-21 06:57:36

Why didn’t Obama think of this?

Comment by CrackerJim
2010-09-21 07:07:41

Shhhhh!

 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 07:38:08

“Why did you deduct so much?”

Well, Mr. Sheeple, there were those 2 overdue parking tickets. And you’ve owed your mother 500 pounds for several years. She happened to give us a call.. we’ve made an arrangement. Wonderful woman, your mother.”

 
Comment by DennisN
2010-09-21 08:29:27

From each according to their abilities to each according to their needs….

Comment by varelse
2010-09-21 09:56:47

to each according to how bad the pols feel they need to buy your vote

 
 
Comment by varelse
2010-09-21 09:55:42

Coming soon nto an America near you.

 
Comment by salinasron
2010-09-21 12:54:44

“The UK’s tax collection agency is putting forth a proposal that all employers send employee paychecks to the government, after which the government would deduct what it deems as the appropriate tax and pay the employees by bank transfer.”

This just made my day. Almost spilled the coffee. This forebodes just how precarious the world economic system
is at this juncture.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 17:57:05

A recent poll showed that 65% of all Brits want to retire… in another country.

Current stats also show that a large percentage of Brits have to look for jobs overseas. Have. To.

This is the future of America.

 
 
Comment by packman
2010-09-21 06:18:04

Big development near me - One Loudoun facing foreclosure.

There has been tons of road work done already relating to this project, including a very expensive interchange that’s just now being completed. The development was required to put up most of this money up front; it appears what happened is they just didn’t get enough commercial/retail contracts to make up the debt on the back end.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-09-21 06:25:21

This doesn’t bode well for the automakers, or for houses built in outer suburbs.

Generation Y Giving Cars a Pass
The generation gap is a growing, long-term headache for automakers.

By Jim Ostroff

Motorists aged 21 to 30 now account for 14% of miles driven, down from 21% in 1995.

They’re more apt to ride mass transit to work and use car sharing services — pioneered by Zipcar — for longer trips. And car sharing choices are expanding, with car rental firms moving into the market, making it convenient for young folks to rent with hourly rates and easy insurance. Connect by Hertz, for example, is rolling out its car sharing services in the New York metropolitan area, with plans to eventually expand them to around 40 college campuses nationwide.

“It’s a matter of mind-set far more than affordability,” says William Draves, president of Learning Resources Network, an association that studies consumer trends and provides education and training services.

“This generation focuses its buying on computers, BlackBerrys, music and software and views commuting a few hours by car a huge productivity waste when they can work using PDAs while taking the bus and train,” says Draves.

Moreover, in survey after survey, Gen Yers say that they believe cars are damaging to the environment. Even hybrid electric vehicles don’t seem to be changing young consumers’ attitudes much.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2010-09-21 07:18:36

I have a nephew turning 16, and although he has his permit, and occasionally will drive with his folks to the store or the like, he shows no real interest in getting his license, much less in getting his own car. I’m told this is a common trait of his generation.

When my generation (x) turned 16, we were waiting for the doors to open at the drivers testing office on the first day we were allowed to take the test. Getting your license was your ticket to adulthood and the world.

Is it really just the internet etc that has caused this sea change in attitudes? We could talk to each other incessantly on the land-line phone, if we wanted to. And we often did. But that wasn’t enough back then. At some point you wanted to actually touch the girl you’d been chatting up for hours, for one. Is this desire, too, gone?

Comment by WT Economist
2010-09-21 07:27:20

No, just the money. They can’t afford cars.

Gen Y is, on average, poorer than Gen X.

Which is poorer than my generation, the second half of the baby boom.

Which is poorer than the first half of the baby boom, the last generation to be richer than the one before.

Much of the loss of well being for my generation has been in future well being in old age — the elimination of pensions and retiree health care, the raiding of Social Security, the cancellation of employer 401K matches.

By the time they got around to Gen Y, they were eliminating a lot of the pay too.

Comment by DF
2010-09-21 07:48:59

It might be that cars are more of an aggravation too. Traffic’s gotten worse over the years in a lot of metro areas, so that makes driving less fun/more stressful. I don’t know if it’s gotten worse, but parking can be a bit PITA too, both from a money and aggravation standpoint.

Also, the productivity side of things is a big deal. You can do work on the bus/train, but if you’re driving, you have to focus on not getting into an accident and not getting pulled over for accidentally speeding.

But I’d agree with the money thing a lot. My father and father-in-law were pretty much broke when they were my age but they had lots of junk cars that they messed around with. It seems harder to do that today, with safety/emissions laws and such (I grew up in NJ, and you’d fail a safety inspection for merely a crack in your windshield). Also, you need better tools/better skills to work on cars than you did in the past (more precise tolerances on parts, tighter engine bays, more electronics, etc.).

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Comment by DennisN
2010-09-21 08:35:29

Basically it’s a lot more expensive to be poor these days.

Back in the GD, you could piece together a jalopy for next to nothing. There was plenty of bare land around and nobody mined too much if you got some scrap lumber together and built a shanty.

You can’t do this anymore. Vehicles have to pass government safety and smog checks so your jalopy would be impounded. Dwellings have to pass building codes in all manners so that shanty would be condemned and knocked down by government bulldozers.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-09-21 10:30:56

A little OT, but…amusing.

My middle daughter has a really low-cut blouse she calls her “road-trip shirt”. In case she gets pulled over for speeding. That, and learning how to cry on cue.

Has been busted twice for doing 80 plus on I-70. No tickets yet.

Says “If I have these things, I might as well get some use out of them….”

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 04:11:35

Oh lordy, GS! :)

How do you handle it?

 
 
Comment by cactus
2010-09-21 12:48:39

WT Economist

have you read “the fourth turning ” it pretty much spells out exactly what you just said about generations and wealth

you probably could skip reading the book you already figured it out. we are in a Crisis or winter cycle of the 4 cycles. maybe we will live to see a spring ? I also am a late boomer born in 1960. late for everything. I did sell my overpriced Townhome at the peak 2006 so I finally “jumped” ranks to pull ahead of the mass of boomers figuring they will all sort of move in a large pack towards retirement. maybe that’s the crisis a total bankrupcy of government promises to retiring workers? they sent SS while it was in surplus and now they will cut, cut cut and make old folks feel lucky to get anything at all.

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Comment by PortlandDad
2010-09-21 21:34:19

cactus, you just mixed my two favorite forums! Like chocolate in peanut butter, the hbb and fourthturning.

I am a steadfast lurker at both sites, and I love you all from Rio to wmbz. Thanks everyone.

 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2010-09-21 13:18:25

I agree with WT Economist.

Once they have money, Gen Y really spends. People in their 20s I work with have Lexus cars.

I’m a boomer too frugal to get a car costing over $21,000, but I can change from frugal to spender when my investment income gets high enough. Haven’t determined the point yet.

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Comment by ann gogh
2010-09-21 08:05:38

In my town all the young men are still using skateboards to get around. some of them have goatees so they are at least 20.
As a dog owner I am keenly aware of these new shakeboard gangs. it’s all over.

Comment by Spook
2010-09-21 09:09:18

Don’t forget motorcycles. I know there is a bias against them in the U.S; but in Europe they are considered a legitimate form of “serious” transportation and not just recreation/fun… we had to wage a fight to get on the HOV lanes.

(((shakin my head)))

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Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-09-21 10:25:01

Every time I think about buying a bike, the next thing I hear is about some bike-owning acquaintanace of mine getting killed/seriously injured by some blue-hair pulling out in front of them.

My avionics crew chief at one of my former jobs had to lay his bike down for that reason……saved his life, but busted the “balls” of both femurs in his pelvis……..double hip joint replacements, one of which had to be done again. 18 months out of work, and barely mobile when he got back. Another guy is in a wheelchair.

Skill, talent and good judgement sometimes doesn’t matter.

 
Comment by Spook
2010-09-21 10:32:08

“Skill, talent and good judgement sometimes doesn’t matter.”

You can always convert to Islam, or something else…

 
 
 
Comment by AmazingRuss
2010-09-21 08:42:41

“When my generation (x) turned 16, we were waiting for the doors to open at the drivers testing office on the first day we were allowed to take the test. Getting your license was your ticket to adulthood and the world.”

Driving used to be a way to get out of parental oversight. Now with ubiquitous cell phones, there’s really no escape. I remember a nightmare I had back then, where I was cruising the drag with my friends and heard a phone ring. I looked down between the seats and there was one of those wall mount kitchen phones there. I picked it up, and it was my dad, wondering what the hell I was doing. My dream self told him that I was driving around with 6 other kids in the car, smoking dope and drinking beer, and then I woke up in a sweat.

About the time I left high school, the cops were already shutting down cruising venues and parking lot hangouts all over the country. No doubt they made the world a safer place, but it killed the social scene that was built on all that. I guess all the texting stuff has stepped in to fill the void. I’m glad I got to experience the car scene though. Some of my favorite memories were made there. I’m also glad I didn’t get killed or maimed… quite a few my friends did.

The new way is safer and more efficient, and I think the kids probably enjoy it just as much, not having known it any other way.

Comment by Carl Morris
2010-09-21 08:59:31

Driving used to be a way to get out of parental oversight.

That’s true. I don’t think that on average the kids are trying as hard to get away from their parents these days. I suspect that’s because the parents now are all about providing them with a safe, comfortable place to fool around. If the parents are “cool” with your scene, what’s to run from?

Cars and cruising and all that were just ways to spend more time around the opposite sex…if they’re already in your bedroom, what’s the point?

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Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 04:14:32

Funny, but probably true, Carl.

 
 
 
Comment by In Montana
2010-09-21 09:02:39

Got a step who’s 25 and still doesn’t have his DL. He used to brag about how he was going to get a big 350 dually pickup, but now seems to be fine with taking the bus or riding a bike instead - with his non-driving wife in tow.

 
Comment by ahansen
2010-09-21 09:43:25

I’m seeing long distance courtships with infrequent (but intense,) visits amongst the kids I know. Now in their mid-twenties, these guys exhibited a similar non-interest in learning to drive, purchasing and maintaining a vehicle etc. in their teens.

The difference?

Options. And necessity.

Interporn is rife and easy and a lot less trouble than taking time away from studies, job, or videogames. It can also be enjoyed simultaneously with other online activities and conversations–a boon to those juggling multiple relationships in diminished free time.

Telephones require a physical presence at a specific site and time–much harder to arrange– and they require an actual commitment, of sorts, by both parties. Vocal conversation, besides requiring improvisational and listening skills, presents a haphazard way to court when texting and instant messaging are so easily available and far more convenient.

Cars are expensive, (employment opportunities for these kids are something of a joke right now–as is tuition,) cars represent a time and energy suck, IE; a pain to drive when you could be online checking out the latest MMA stats, and cars are easy to procure from friends and ‘rents if one is absolutely necessary to attend to one’s um, needs.
So why bother?

Cars for teens are about privacy and isolation from parental units. With today’s communications, that can be accomplished with nothing more than a laptop. (The electronic type, anyway….)

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-09-21 11:12:17

Agreed, this story is about more than social mobility. There’s a fundamental rethinking about self-image that’s going on nowadays. Younger people seem to be making a conscious choice about what’s most important to them…and no surprise - it differs from what was important to their parents.

Not only does this not bode well for auto makers, it doesn’t bode well for the hopebuilders. There appears to be a premium placed on mobility - which of course is nothing new. Fifty years ago owning a car was just the ticket for a youth on the go - today car (and house) ownership is viewed more as a restriction. Car sharing and flexible rental housing ought to do quite well if current trends continue.

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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 11:24:15

Agreed, this story is about more than social mobility. There’s a fundamental rethinking about self-image that’s going on nowadays. Younger people seem to be making a conscious choice about what’s most important to them…and no surprise - it differs from what was important to their parents.

Yes it is deeper. And the establishment had better start throwing some bones to American citizens before the establishment gets dis-established.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-09-21 11:51:23

Agreed, this story is about more than social mobility. There’s a fundamental rethinking about self-image that’s going on nowadays.

As mentioned here before, I spent a good chunk of my twenties and thirties aboard a bicycle. I was exploring all 50 of the United States and some of Canada as well. Finally achieved my goal of bagging every one of These United States when I 34 years old.

Among other things, this experience left me with a rather jaded view of materialism and how it relates to my own life. When I was out there on the bike, all I needed was right there with me — food, clothing, housing (a tent and sleeping bag), entertainment (a book or two, my harmonica, and a journal), and tools.

When I came back into civilization and had to deal with my fellow Americans, most often at work, I was amazed at how they would knock themselves out to pay for cars, houses, and all the stuff that went in them. I just couldn’t get into that game. And they couldn’t understand why I was so uninterested in it.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 04:18:19

It sounds like such a good time, AZ Slim. What fun it must have been! :)

 
 
Comment by Dale
2010-09-21 17:09:33

“….cars represent a time and energy suck.”

Yeah, but they used to also represent pride of ownership as well as responsibility for maintaining them. Not sure a lot of kids now even know how to change the oil.

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Comment by In Colorado
2010-09-21 14:25:45

“I have a nephew turning 16, and although he has his permit, and occasionally will drive with his folks to the store or the like, he shows no real interest in getting his license, much less in getting his own car”

Not my kids! All chomped at the bit to get their DL, the youngest is counting down the days until he gets to trade in his permit for a real DL.

 
Comment by REhobbyist
2010-09-21 15:33:09

My niece didn’t want to drive - her parents forced her to get her license when she was 20. But they didn’t want her driving when she was in high school anyway.

My sons, who are now 25 and 22, couldn’t wait to start driving. The younger one was at the DMV the Monday after he turned 16 to get his license. I was less than enthusiastic, and he had two accidents and a speeding ticket in the following 22 months before he went to college.

Either way the parents lose. -)

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-09-21 07:54:34

That story was indeed a breath of fresh air. For those that don’t live in cities, let me tell ya, biking has taken off in a big way. Four years ago I started biking to work and sold off my car a year later. Bike traffic has markedly increased over the past few years - to the point where I pass as many bikes as cars some mornings.

This is great because it’s change at the hands of individuals, not from government policy. It’s people taking charge of their lives and making free choices to break from the environmentally and economically unsustainable postwar mold. Sure, maybe it’s forced on some - but it takes a lot of conviction to bike instead of drive and the enthusiasm and energy of many of these bikers suggests that no one is forcing them.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-09-21 08:22:21

This is great because it’s change at the hands of individuals, not from government policy.

And, say what you will about bicyclists, but we are quite proud of our individuality. As for enthusiasm and energy, it’s what we bring to life, not just bicycling.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-09-21 10:07:17

The Chinese are buying cars and becoming the biggest market for cars in the world. With import restrictions on cars not made in China, of course.

While we are moving back to bikes.

Comment by packman
2010-09-21 10:15:28

With import restrictions on cars not made in China, of course.

Actually China is a huge export market for GM (Buick in particular, interestingly - I saw a ton of Buicks there when I was there two years ago), as well as for Germany.

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Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-09-21 12:27:05

Yeah, at the cost of forming a “partnership” with the government at the end of a shotgun.

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2010-09-21 10:30:10

Funny how protectionism works so well for the ChiComs.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-09-21 11:20:55

It’s not all bad, there’s just a reshuffling of priorities going on is all. If anything, this should be better for aviation than for car makers. The kids really seem to place a lot of value on global travel nowadays.

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Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-09-21 13:43:18

The decamping of the General Aviation OEMs to China and Mexico is in progress as we speak.

Wire harnesses got moved a long time ago. Bombardier is doing all their carbon fiber stuff in Mexico as we speak. Hawker Beech and Cessna are holding the outsourcing club over the heads of their respective bargaining units during the current contract negotiations………and the IAM in Wichita has never had the clout that the UAW has had in Michigan. Kansas is a “Right to Work” state, union membership is optional.

When I started at my former OEM employer in 1979, I was making $6.63/hour, and health insurance was “free”

Using the government’s own inflation calculator (which probably fudges the inflation numbers), $6.63 in 2010 equals $19.94/hour.

Starting pay for my job now is $13.00/hour. Plus, you get to pay higher copays, and premiums for your insurance. And the state sales tax has doubled. And FICA payments went up……..etc.

And yet, according to Business Conventional Wisdom, it costs too much to hire people in the USA.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 04:21:37

Starting pay for my job now is $13.00/hour.

If this is true for your current job, I’m absolutely stunned. IMHO, you should be making at least double that. Wow. :(

 
 
Comment by ACH
2010-09-21 11:31:36

I like to ride my bike. I keep looking at the overstuffed types who are always riding in cars, touring a parking lot to get a place “close to the door”, and just ‘a hammerin’ that buffet line. I am 6′ 0″ and weighed 175 lbs at 18 yrs. I weight 181 lbs at 53 years. Besides, I save money when I ride to work which is about 5 times a week at 5 miles each way.

America needs more everyday exercise in the course of our lives. We’d be much thinner if we did.

Roidy

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2010-09-21 17:07:00

That’s so true Roidy. Lifestyle is everything. If one works their exercise into their daily routine the benefits stay with them for life - as you well know.

There are all kinds of benefits in this news about Gen Y, it’s just too bad not all them are immediately measurable and obvious - otherwise even more folks might be on board.

 
 
 
Comment by rms
2010-09-21 12:11:03

“Sure, maybe it’s forced on some - but it takes a lot of conviction to bike instead of drive and the enthusiasm and energy of many of these bikers suggests that no one is forcing them.”

Just rained the past couple of days; I really dreaded having to drive to work rather than pedal. Funny, I haven’t even spent $20 for fuel this past spring, summer and fall combined. Unfortunately, the cycling season has about 45-days remaining until everything freezes up here in Washington’s Columbia Basin.

Comment by Claire
2010-09-21 21:27:34

If you are like my husband you have had to buy tires and new chains instead which aren’t cheap! Mind you he cycles the long route to work (60 miles instead of 5 if he drives)

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Comment by Timmy Boy
2010-09-22 03:04:29

I just got back from Spain… & let me tell you…

Whenever I got to Europe… I end up losing at least 5 lbs… just from all the WALKING required to get around.. to the subways… up & down the subway stairs… walking to bars & retaurants.

Even tho I always eat more cheese, bread & oil when in Europe.. I always feel more healthy just from the necessary walking & stairclimbing required to get around.

I NEVER miss having a car there!!!

Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 04:24:00

A friend of mine said the same thing about her trip to Europe.

She, too, ate tons of bread and cheese, but realized after she got back to the U.S. that she had lost a lot of weight from all the walking.

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Comment by measton
2010-09-21 09:05:20

It’s a matter of mind-set far more than affordability,” says William Draves, president of Learning Resources Network, an association that studies consumer trends and provides education and training services.

No I’d say it’s all about affordability.
I had a car as soon as I turned 18, started saving from about age 12. Of course I lived in the country. My much younger sister is 25 and has no car she walks, rides, takes the bus, or on rare occ takes my car. She saves a ton of money this way. As energy prices rise you will see much more of this.

 
Comment by lavi d
2010-09-21 11:47:09

Generation Y Giving Cars a Pass

This is fascinating.

A large shift (ha) away from the “car culture” in America, would be an astounding development.

Comment by Carl Morris
2010-09-21 12:55:43

I have a vague memory of the late 70s when the economy generally sucked and insurance and gas were high and everybody was worried about the environment, and it seemed like car culture was dying. Then gas got cheaper and the economy seemed to be getting better and it came roaring back. Wouldn’t be shocked to see that cycle at least once more in my life. If history repeats itself expect to see 2010-11? ZR1 Vettes and that sort of thing cheap for a few years, and then worth a million dollars when it all comes back.

Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-09-21 13:46:32

Government is funding a lot of activity not related to transportation by various fuel taxes, etc. Including subsidizing mass transport.

Wonder whats going to happen when they kill the auto “golden goose”?

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Comment by Carl Morris
2010-09-21 14:46:33

Wonder whats going to happen when they kill the auto “golden goose”?

If all the people who used to make and sell and finance autos find something else productive to do, nothing bad will happen, we’ll just be a society with priorities other than cars. If they choose to sit unproductively and consume and wait to die (or that’s their only option) then we’ll be in a world of hurt. Same with the housing industry rejects right now. They need to be used productively or bad things will happen. The question is, what as a society would we most benefit from them doing? What do we have to do to get them started doing it? Or has it not been invented yet?

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-09-21 15:52:43

I’m not talking about people. I’m talking about all of the government fees and taxes that governments have been slapping on, for the “privlege” of operating a motor vehicle.

When the cars go away, so does the revenue generated from user fees and fuel taxes. Not to mention the “penalties” associated with traffic tickets.

And no, taxing the crap out of wind turbines and bicycle tires ain’t gonna compensate.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2010-09-21 15:56:23

Good points, but I’m confident in our leaders’ abilities to find new ways to extract revenue from the populace if their previous source dries up.

 
 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 17:58:41

You can’t buy a new car on min wage. Hell, you can’t even buy a used car on min wage.

 
 
Comment by packman
2010-09-21 06:50:48

Re: the “end of the recession”: I present quite possibly one of the funniest pics of 2010.

(not my work)

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-09-21 07:03:32

LOL Palmy!

Comment by palmetto
2010-09-21 07:42:48

You mean “LOL Packman!”

It’s a great photo, I meant to comment on it myself.

I get you and packman mixed up all the time, pressboard. I dunno why, but I loves you guys.

 
 
Comment by packman
2010-09-21 08:52:44

It appears it’s been moved. new link

 
 
Comment by clark
2010-09-21 07:00:29

I read, The End of the World As We Know It? I Doubt It, by Prof. Dom Armentano

In it he says, “In this recession, massive price declines and foreclosures in real estate, both residential and commercial, have done the job that they were intended to do: they have brought actual “supply” more closely into coordination with real “demand. Entrepreneurial opportunities now abound and the improvement in personal and commercial balance sheets and the increase in real savings set the stage for some economic improvement. ”

I doubt the doubter.

Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 18:03:03

Let me know when the median income reaches $332,000 instead $54K.

That’s where it should be to have just kept with inflation since 1965.

Comment by packman
2010-09-21 18:08:50

So your belief is that saying the same wrong information over and over again will somehow make it come true?

(Look at the responses the last time you stated this incorrect info.)

Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 19:06:56

I’m sure the Census Bureau just pulled those numbers out of thin air. :roll:

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Comment by packman
2010-09-21 19:35:08

Census bureau 1965 median household income: $6,900.
Census bureau 2009 median household income: $49,777.
change of 621%.

CPI:
1965: 31.8
2009: 215.9
change of 578%.

Your data source is wrong, or else you’re misreading it.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2010-09-21 07:01:00

My fix:

Increase taxes on all government jobs to 50% of gross income.

Cuts for private sector jobs.

Incentive would be not to work for the government.

Comment by arizonadude
2010-09-21 07:12:03

My dad always said all the crappy workers end up in govt.

Comment by palmetto
2010-09-21 07:48:12

Not all government workers are crappy. Back in the day when I wuz a contractor to local Florida goobermints, I worked with some very fine people who were in local government and they worked very hard.

I don’t like the fact of government workers making 1/3 to twice as much as private sector folks and hoovering up lots of bennies at taxpayer expense, but in my neck of the woods, local government functions surprisingly well and it couldn’t if it didn’t have decent people. Of course, you’ll usually find that a department runs on the backs of a couple of hard working folks who make the loafs look good. But I see that in the private sector, too.

Comment by arizonadude
2010-09-21 08:55:39

Im sure there are. just saying that back in the day the govt sector was not the place to be.It was employer of last resort.When on one else would hire you they would.

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Comment by X-GSfixr
2010-09-21 10:11:39

And, do we really want government workers paid so poorly that bribes become an acceptable means of supplementing their income?

We’re becoming a Supply Side Banana Republic.

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Comment by pressboardbox
2010-09-21 10:57:34

Bribes are not already an acceptable means of income for government workers? No matter how much you pay them, this will always be the case.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 04:29:21

Respectfully disagree, presssboardbox. While there might always be some form of corruption, I think the day-to-day govt workers are actually quite hard working and honest. In my experience, the are at least equal to, if not better than, their private sector counterparts.

 
 
Comment by ragerunner
2010-09-21 10:32:55

Take out fire and police, remove the federal works from the equation and see what the local government staff makes. Its at best equal with the private sector and may actually still be lower.

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Comment by Captain Credit Crunch
2010-09-21 08:09:44

I heard that “good enough for government work” once had a positive connotation, like, “Wow, that’s outstanding enough to be government work.”

Comment by Blue Skye
2010-09-21 09:21:32

It was also: “Good enough for a government job” meaning a project one does for one’s self on company time.

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Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 18:05:05

Private federal contractor employees outnumber regular federal employees.

 
 
Comment by norcal_tenant
2010-09-21 07:20:50

Lower mortgage rates. Headed for 2.5 %?

As to options for juicing up economic growth, Bernanke indicated a preference to launch a new program to buy large amounts of government debt. Such a move would be designed to lower already low rates on mortgages, corporate loans and other debt. The idea behind that is to entice people and businesses to spend more, which would strengthen the economy and lower unemployment.

From Yahoo Financial News

Comment by pressboardbox
2010-09-21 07:45:07

As to options for juicing economic growth, Bernanke indicated a preference to lauch a new program to buy everything in sight from everyone on the planet, leaving no resource unpurchased by the Fed. People would be left to wander aimlessly, greedily carrying tremendous bundles of cash with them until they eventually expire from hunger, thirst, and exhaustion.

 
Comment by exeter
2010-09-21 07:49:06

When we get to 0% WITH tight lending, I’m might consider it.

You got a long way to go Bennie.

PS…… You suck.

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2010-09-21 08:35:10

I think I made the wild ass guess/prediction last week that this would be the next move of the powers that be .

Comment by exeter
2010-09-21 09:00:01

I’m beginning to believe the same HW. I mean think about it. Consider everything they’ve done so far. They’ll stop at nothing. I’ve joked with wife about zero mortgage paper but wasn’t ever really serious. I am now.

Comment by norcal_tenant
2010-09-21 20:25:32

Low mortgage rates is the only enticement I can think of that will keep people buying, even in the setting of declining real estate values

I figured this out for fun, 100K financed over 30 year w. 0% interest is $278 a month.

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Comment by packman
2010-09-21 09:07:55

So basically the goal is to make houses affordable to everyone, as long as they’re paid for the by the government.

I seem to recall a similar plan launched in the early 1900’s in some other really big country, and that perhaps didn’t work out so well.

 
Comment by Timmy Boy
2010-09-22 03:10:46

By LOWERING interest rates… Bernake & Co. are FORGETTING that many elderly people LIVE on INTEREST earned from their savings.

He is in fact… LOWERING their spendable income.

He then does not understand… why people AREN’T SPENDING?!?*%?

WTF???

Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 04:32:03

This is a very good point that is never made for some reason.

Where is the AARP in all of this? They should have been lobbying all along for the Fed to raise interest rates. Elderly people are really hurting with this ridiculous ZIRP policy.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-09-21 07:23:17

Housing Starts Unexpectedly Rise 10.5%- AP

Home construction increased last month and applications for building permits also grew. But the gains were driven mainly by apartment and condominium construction, not the much larger single-family homes sector.

Comment by Albuquerquedan
2010-09-21 08:48:01

I think that his is good news for most people on this board. I believe it means because houses are still overpriced, builders can actually make money selling houses due to the price it costs them to build them compared to the market price . Housing prices will not rise and probably fall until it is cheaper to buy existing houses then to buy new ones. Since land is falling that may be a while. When I bought my house in Feb. in NM I was shocked by the difference between what I could buy a new house for and what delusional buyers wanted for there existing houses. Since they were newly constructed too, it was not a case that the existing houses were better built.

Comment by Albuquerquedan
2010-09-21 08:53:12

I need to check words such as their and than before I post. BTW, does anyone know when the 2010 census figures will be available. It will be truly interesting to see how the housing crash has impacted migration in America.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-09-21 09:03:51

Don’t want to wait for the census stats? Here are two ideas:

1. I think that U-Haul rental stats would provide a picture of how the DIY crowd is moving about the USA.

2. Not to mention sales figures from national moving companies like Allied.

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Comment by PortlandDad
2010-09-21 12:09:16

Census figures are released at the end of December.

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Comment by cactus
2010-09-21 12:51:37

I think they are mostly building apartments now

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-21 22:11:18

“…apartment and condominium construction…”

Great news here for the FBs living in houses financed by unaffordable mortgages, as they will have cheaper housing options going forward, and for fence sitters who might some day want to buy single-family homes, who will have even more inventory than expected thanks to the relief valve of new apartments and condominiums priced affordably for those who have defaulted on their mortgages.

 
 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2010-09-21 07:46:35

I was expecting someone to post this.

Comment by DennisN
2010-09-21 08:38:23

Someone did.

 
Comment by pressboardbox
2010-09-21 10:59:57

I unexpectedly posted in the wrong box.

 
 
Comment by Rancher
2010-09-21 08:21:43

Home buyers can once again purchase a home using FHA financing with a zero down payment.

Previous zero down payment FHA loan programs were funded by seller contributions funneled through a nonprofit group which then donated the down payment to the purchaser. These seller-financed down payment programs were terminated in 2008 after the FHA experienced default rates three times higher than when buyers made a cash down payment.

The innovative zero down payment FHA home purchase program was recently introduced by The Lending Company of Phoenix, Arizona. In order to meet the FHA required 3.5% down payment, the borrower receives a 2.5% gift from a non-profit organization and the remaining 1% can be gifted from a family member.

The Lending Company notes that the program is not a seller-paid down-payment assistance program. To further reduce the amount of cash required by the purchaser, the seller is encouraged to provide seller concessions to cover closing costs. A borrower receiving both gift funds and seller concessions can potentially purchase a home without putting any cash into the transaction.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2010-09-21 08:39:47

I guess that loan program is better than the down payment required to rent . Maybe they should just go back to giving you a car if you buy a
house .

Comment by Albuquerquedan
2010-09-21 08:54:17

At least they had somewhere to live when they lost their overpriced house.

 
 
Comment by polly
2010-09-21 15:45:41

Where does the non-profit get the money? If is isn’t from the seller of the house, I’m betting the funds they have available are very, very, very limited.

 
Comment by pismoclam
2010-09-21 18:06:54

This was the scheme promoted by Maxine Waters, Obama and Barney Frank. Called ‘Nehemia’ loans. Just like the ‘No No’ loans of a few years back.60% default rates within 3 years.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 04:36:14

Oh no! I was so happy when those programs were terminated.

As if 3.5% FHA loans weren’t bad enough (and don’t get me started on “seller concessions”). This is very, very bad news.

The market will not be able to heal until all the weak hands have been shaken out. Why is the govt encouraging wave after wave of foreclosures? Don’t they realize what they’re doing?

 
 
Comment by seen it all
2010-09-21 09:23:55

I didn’t realize that the sinkhole problem was so pervasive.
(could swallow insurerers)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703305004575504143442161532.html

Comment by Kim
2010-09-21 10:34:56

Wow, its a good thing they have a three car garage!

;)

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 18:20:03

That’s what happens when you pump all the water out.

 
 
Comment by Faraway
2010-09-21 09:38:51

The recession may be over, but the depression is just getting started. Note the 2-year change in median family income:

“But Georgia’s whopping 13.1% loss of $6,710 to $44,696, made it the biggest loser.”

SOURCE: http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/16/news/economy/Americas_wealthiest_states/index.htm?section=money_latest

A trend in motion…

Comment by In Colorado
2010-09-21 10:25:58

“But Georgia’s whopping 13.1% loss of $6,710 to $44,696, made it the biggest loser.”

But, but Eddie said that this is a Garden Varierty recession and that everyone has pockets full of cash to spend.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 11:02:33

..Only 12 states, plus the District of Columbia, recorded income gains compared with their 2006 and 2007 averages.

I wonder if any States experienced household income increases
all through the Great Depression.

 
Comment by AmazingRuss
2010-09-21 11:13:43

Eddie is long gone. Marching around with some teabaggers, no doubt.

Comment by REhobbyist
2010-09-21 15:38:19

No AmazingRuss, he was here dissing his mother in law over the weekend. She writes checks.

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Comment by measton
2010-09-21 10:02:18

ROME (AFP) – Italian prosecutors launched an investigation into the Vatican bank’s top executives on Tuesday for allegedly violating anti money laundering legislation, triggering a quick rebuttal by the Vatican.

Prosecutors ordered the seizure of 23 million euros (30 million dollars) belonging to the the Istituto per le Opere di Religione (IOR) and opened an inquiry against chairman Ettore Gotti Tedeschi and another top executive.

I guess Blankfein the CEO of GS was right when he said he was doing God’s work?

Whay does the vatican have a bank?

Ah religion

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 10:34:49

why does it have a bank? Vatican City is a sovereign country.. it’s got everything.

The unique, non-commercial economy is supported financially by the sale of postage stamps and tourist mementos, fees for admission to museums, and the sale of publications.[34] Other industries include printing, the production of mosaics and the manufacture of staff uniforms.

The Vatican also conducts worldwide financial activities, having its own bank, Istituto per le Opere di Religione (also known as the Vatican Bank, and with the acronym IOR). This bank has an ATM with instructions in Latin, possibly the only such ATM in the world.

Comment by DennisN
2010-09-21 11:11:41

Back in the old days it was even a formidible military power.

Many critics pan it, but I really am fond of “The Agony and the Ecstasy” with Rex Harrison playing the part of a very worldly Pope Julius II.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 11:41:33

i don’t especially like Rex Harrison’s style.. good movie though.

lets see..
in 1965 it was up against.. The Sound of Music and Doctor Zhivago.

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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 10:08:18

There’s this cool site with a bunch of Tea Party slogans. Some are really quite good and meaningful. Some need a little editing:

We’re mad as hell and we’re not gonna take it anymore!!! we don’t know why…

I want my country back quacked!

We Are Not Tolerant of Treason!

Stop the Voter Frauds Broads!

If We Compromise Our Principles, There’s Nothing Worth Fighting For Big Money Involved

If You Don’t Understand This Protest, You Must Have Attended Government Grad Schools.

When You Stand for Nothing,You’ll Fall for Anything Freedomworks

Take Care of Our Seniors - They Made Our Country Great Broke

Americans Are Compassionate - We Can Take Care of Our Own Locally Kind

Socialist Corporatist Utopia: the Elite Party While the Slaves Work

Liberalism Masterbation is a Mental Disorder

GOP Leaders, You We Are the Problem! We Don’t Want Moderates.

Let It Not Be Said That We Did Nothing!

The Nazis Were Socialists Misunderstood

Oh, How I Miss You, President Reagan! Joseph McCarthy

Congress: If Your Health Plan Is So Great, Why Exempt Yourselves? Can’t We Have It?

CO2 Is Not a Pollutant! (it’s a puppy)

I’m a Conservative, Law-Abiding American and Obama calls me an Extremist! my Wife Says I’m Boring.

Sometimes You Need a Carter Before Prophylactic Or You Get a Reagan

Save the Dollar Too big to Fail.

First, We Protest…(Then we go to Applebees)

They’re Making Us Pay for Our Own Destruction Healthcare!

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 10:43:52

wow.. this tea party thing is really threatening to a whole lot of people..

How would I join this movement?

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 11:29:25

wow.. this tea party thing is really threatening to a whole lot of people..

Maybe especially threatening to the Republican Party, long term.

How would I join this movement?

Here: But you should hurry.

http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Comment by WT Economist
2010-09-21 12:19:34

The Tea Party doesn’t seem to be living up to my hopes of being internally consistent Republicans, and ditching the “something for nothing” fiscal hypocrisy and bigotry of the past 30 years.

Instead it seems to be doubling down on it. Cut taxes! Hands off my Medicare!

But then again, what is the Tea Party? To have a movement, you need people. And lots of the people with time to participate in a movement are a little nuts. So things seem to run off the rails in short order. Only those primarly interested in working the system for self interest seem to keep it together.

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Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 18:26:23

That’s because they are nothing but a front org with shadow backing by the Repubs in order to dilute the votes in the next elections and provide a way to compromise some former Repubs who were asking rather pointed and embarrassing questions.

 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 12:38:51

they need someone to clean up that web page. It’s really bloated. And gimme a plain background. Keep it simple.

i dunno.. Seems like there’s little to “join” except a mailing list to be notified of events. i might send a couple bucks anonymously..

And the blog over there is same as here.. same topics.. same opinions about the economy.. but there’s more variety here.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-09-21 13:25:19

they need someone to clean up that web page. It’s really bloated. And gimme a plain background. Keep it simple.

Compare this site with something like, oh, Obama’s 2008 campaign sites, and you have more evidence to back up the argument that the far right doesn’t know how to use the Internet to organize.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 15:53:14

…the far right doesn’t know how to use the Internet to organize.

I think it’s got something to do with which side of the brain dominates..

From reading some of that TPP page, i get the impression that it’s 100% donations.. like zero salaries and nobody gets paid for anything.

 
 
 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2010-09-21 10:52:04

The problem with today’s right wing: Reagan promised lower taxes and more spending on them, and they demand it! Cut “those people,” whoever they are.

Take Care of Our Seniors - They Made Our Country Broke

Exactly. And they were never willing to take care of those coming after, unlike prior generations of seniors. Those that made our country great are dead and gone.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 11:04:35

Who will future younger generations blame their problems on? You, probably.

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2010-09-21 11:54:31

Because?

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 12:15:44

because.. Because we inherit both the good and the bad, but nobody cares about the good stuff.

It’s the bad we inherit that sticks out in our minds and bothers us.

 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2010-09-21 12:10:23

There will be some in the next generation who can be thankful to their parents for preparing them to be agile and adaptable to changing circumstances.

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Comment by WT Economist
2010-09-21 12:16:25

If they become smart enough to realize what is going on.

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Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 18:29:49

Grow up.

The seniors had no more say in how things turned out than you did. They had their money and jobs stolen and taken away just like everyone else.

It was Wall St. and NOBODY else but Wall St. and their sock puppets that made the mess we’re in.

Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 04:43:38

+1

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Comment by evildoc
2010-09-21 20:35:01

Hmmm…

The humor will be funnier still when they take Congress in few weeks.

 
 
Comment by edgar
2010-09-21 12:09:06

1. Nibblin on free-rent sponge cake
Watchin the banks fake
Their books when the defaults
Rise with the price of oil
Strummin my six-string
On my leased porch swing
Smell those tempers they’re beginnin’ to boil
Wastin’ away again in deadabeataville
Searching for my lost sense of fair play
Some people claim that there’s a banker to blame
But I know it’s nobody’s fault
I don’t know the treason
Why did I pay here all season
Nothin to show but McMansaboo
It’s a real beauty
A mexican cutie
How it got here I haven’t a clue
Wastin’ away again in deadabeataville
Searching for my lost sense of fair play
Some people claim that there’s a banker to blame
Now I think
Hell, it could be my fault…

apologies to jimmy buffett

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-09-21 12:20:25

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/09/bell-officials-arrested-as-prosecutors-are-set-to-file-criminal-charges.html

Breaking News: Eight officials in Bell, California, have been arrested in connection with their huge municipal salaries.

I call on all my HBB brethren & sisteren to rally around these embattled, devoted municipal officials, who were merely compensating themselves according to their arduous civic duties of this near-bankrupt crap-hole of a town. And following the example of the raptor capitalists on Wall Street, who are rewarded with obscene bonuses from taxpayer dollars rather than being subjected to perp walks.

Comment by Big V
2010-09-21 13:02:31

Why do none of these people have Anglo-sounding last names? They all sound Italian or Hispanic. I wonder if illegal voting (by illegal immigrants with fake social security numbers, for instance) had anything to do with it.

In light of the efforts we’ve seen to force Hispanic candidates to office (such as cumulative voting in a recent scandal), I think this story has special significance. It’s not PC to be racist, but is it really wise to select people who COME FROM A CULTURE OF CORRUPTION into office, based on their cultural background?

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-09-21 13:44:15

Mexico-style political corruption in the US?! Nooooooo…couldn’t be.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 14:06:35

why…

…As of the census[32] of 2000, there were 36,664 people, 8,918 households, and 7,615 families residing in the city.

blah blah blah…

… 90.90% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.

Comment by Big V
2010-09-21 14:12:15

Yeah, I wonder how many of them got there illegaly. There is a good reason why our immigration policy is designed not to let toooooo many people in from just one race/culture/country/whatever.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 16:19:07

the “good reason” is to be fair.

It’s not because some race or ethnic group or religion or any other subset of mankind is prone to criminality.

 
Comment by Big V
2010-09-21 17:35:04

That’s not what I said, Joe.

 
Comment by Big V
2010-09-21 17:39:24

Oh, and another thing - “The reason” is to prevent our political and economic systems from being over-run by people who want to play a different game, whatever that game may be.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 18:17:56

..to let toooooo many people in from just one race..

one (1) race.. / culture.. etc.

ok.. it’s not what you meant, but it is what you said.

 
Comment by Big V
2010-09-21 19:14:28

I did not say anything about a tendency toward criminality.

 
 
 
 
Comment by fisher
2010-09-21 15:57:27

That SOB in the picture is going to do the perp *waddle*. Boss Hawg.

 
 
Comment by Big V
2010-09-21 13:04:43

House prices are stupid.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2010-09-21 13:45:32

No. The people who pay them are stupid.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-09-21 13:19:19

Exactly what did the Fed’l Reserve Open Market Committee say today?

“The committee will continue to monitor the economic outlook and financial developments and is prepared to provide additional accommodation if needed to support the economic recovery and to return inflation, over time, to levels consistent with its mandate.” 9.21.10

< Translation: We’re prepared to create billions more dollars out of thin air to get the economy going again. We want more inflation than we have now. It is our mandate, dating back to 1913, to keep the economy on an expansionary course - - no matter what it takes.

Comment by butters
2010-09-21 13:23:03

Not sure what happened to stocks at the closing? It shoot up right after Benny’s anoucements.

Comment by packman
2010-09-21 13:33:26

And then went right back down to “no change”.

Meanwhile the $ plummeted, and stayed down.

Says a bit.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-09-21 13:22:19

Cessna cuts 700 more jobs
Wichita Business Journal

Textron Inc., the parent-company of Cessna Aircraft Co. announced Tuesday it would be laying off workers at the Wichita-based aircraft maker.

Textron plans to cut 700 jobs at Cessna.

The move comes after the company secured a seven-year work contract with the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers this past weekend.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 14:13:29

the company secured a seven-year work contract with the International Association of Machinists..

yesterday’s article about Harley said something similar. They had to hammer out a deal with the union(s?) before the layoffs could happen. Alternative was closing the Fl plant, iirc.

 
Comment by Chris M
2010-09-21 14:15:53

Unions cause outsourcing.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 14:32:44

Unions cause outsourcing.

Germany has strong Unions and strong manufacturing.

Brazil has strong Unions and strong manufacturing.

The difference is that they have more “patriotic” policies that PROTECT their people and jobs more than they protect Billionaires.

I think there is someone on this board who can explain how government protected and Unionized Brazilian Embraer (one of the largest aircraft manufacturers in the world) has affected US aircraft manufacturer workers.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-09-21 14:35:08

I think there is someone on this board who can explain how government protected and Unionized Brazilian Embraer (one of the largest aircraft manufacturers in the world) has affected US aircraft manufacturer workers.

For one thing, Embraer makes a good plane.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 15:30:44

Germany? Brazil? You like to compare the USA with other countries but there is no comparison.

The average full time wage in the USA is highest except for Luxembourg.
Germany ranks 13th.
Brazil is somewhere below the top 24 countries.

#2 - United States 49,483 (PPP - Purchasing power parity)
#24 - Poland 15,446 (PPP)

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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 16:13:07

Germany? Brazil? You like to compare the USA with other countries but there is no comparison.

Sure there is. Germany’s doing fine. Especially since they’ve had to integrate their Eastern Brothers. This has skewed their income down but it is catching up. I know Germans who’ve lived in America. Most would not trade their German standard of living with the USA’s.

Germany is one of the countries with the highest standard of living in the world. According to the UN’s HDI Index, Germany is one of the most developed countries in the world in terms of life expectancy, degree of literacy and per-capita income. The healthcare system enables comprehensive medical care, whereby the social security systems of the statutory health insurances, care and accident insurance and unemployment support protect people against existential risks.

http://www.tatsachen-ueber-deutschland.de/en/society/content/glossary08.html?type=1&no_cache=1

The average full time wage in the USA is highest except for Luxembourg.

Full time wages? Hmmmm. And OK but American averages are skewed by the winner take all highest earners which don’t exist as much in Germany. We also have higher out of pocket expenses such as healthcare, retirements and disability insurance and unemployment so we need to make a lot more. We also worry about that stuff a lot more. That takes a stressful toll on American’s piece of mind.

As far as Brazil, many middle class, most upper middle class and for sure the lower-upper class Brazilians have higher standards of living than most Americans in the same classes. But I’m not talking about “stuff” as much as I’m talking about job security, lower stress about healthcare, retirements, time off, vacations, down time and fun time with friends and family.

USA does have bigger SUV’s and better and cheaper bling though.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 16:36:10

I find it perplexing that we Americans are so self-certain in our “uniqueness” and “specialness” and in our exalted opinion of our failed economic system.

Americans have nothing to learn from countries who have done certain things lately better than us? Nothing? We can’t learn from ANY OTHER COUNTRY? We can’t compare? Why?

Because we’re number 1? Because it’s different here?

I beg to differ.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 17:14:50

“uniqueness” and “specialness”?

I’m only saying the countries are TOO DIFFERENT to make comparisons.

The high wages in the USA makes Brazil an attractive prospect for them to outsource to.
Doesn’t that fact alone screw up any meaningful comparison of their relative tendencies to outsource??

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 17:48:32

I’m only saying the countries are TOO DIFFERENT to make comparisons.

The high wages in the USA makes Brazil an attractive prospect for them to outsource to.

Actually Brazil is not a low cost producer in comparison to “low cost” producers. Not at all. That’s one of the reasons that Brazil “protects” it’s market. They really don’t make a full-on effort to be a “low-cost” producer. (It’s takes too much time and effort, people get mad and for what? Besides, they see their employees at the beach on the weekends)

For a lot of products, it’s as cheap to manufacture them in the USA to sell in the USA. There are hardly any Brazilian made consumer items sold in the USA.

I have experience in this subject.

Strategic, very high value added products such as aircraft is a more complicated subject.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 18:58:12

Actually Brazil is not a low cost producer in comparison to “low cost” producers…

yeah.. probably a little cheaper to produce in Biafra.

Hey Rio..
lets just tell the voices in our heads to shut up, and take 5 seconds to actually research something..

lets type “outsource to brazil” into Google and see what pops up.

bingo..

Brazil aims to be outsourcing giant

By Todd Benson
The New York Times

WEDNESDAY, MAY 18, 2005
From: http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/05/17/business/outsource.php

..On a recent trip to California, Luiz Fernando Furlan, the Brazilian trade minister, went out of his way to plug his country as the next stop in the global rush for software services and information technology.

http://www.paradigma.com.br/leiamais/en/outsourcing-brazil/view

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 19:31:36

Brazil aims to be outsourcing giant…
yeah.. probably a little cheaper to produce in Biafra.

LOL, “aims to be” I “aim to be” a lot of things…..

Biafra? Gosh. You are ignorant about Brazil. I am not.

As far as Brazil being “the next software center”?

1. I don’t see it and you won’t understand why.
2. USA won’t pursue it after their first experience.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2010-09-21 15:46:41

“Germany has strong Unions and strong manufacturing.
Brazil has strong Unions and strong manufacturing.
The difference is that they have more “patriotic” policies that PROTECT their people and jobs more than they protect Billionaires.
I think there is someone on this board who can explain how government protected and Unionized Brazilian Embraer (one of the largest aircraft manufacturers in the world) has affected US aircraft manufacturer workers.”

Well done. Nutjobs hate facts.

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Comment by Chris M
2010-09-21 20:01:25

Well done. Nutjobs hate facts.

Is that all you have to add? How about a show of hands. Let’s see a post from everyone on this blog who thinks unions are the way of the future, and a good thing for the USA?

 
Comment by rms
2010-09-21 23:31:15

U.S. Pharmacists have a very strong union.

 
Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 04:50:10

Raises hand.

Unions are a thin barrier between our lifestyle and the lifestyle of those in “third world” countries.

If unions go down, we all go down.

 
Comment by exeter
2010-09-22 04:52:48

Like I said…. nutjobs hate facts and will always run from them.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2010-09-21 13:23:40

Abbott Labs to Cut 3,000 Jobs in Integration of Solvay Unit

Abbott Laboratories said it would cut 3% of its work force in one of the largest layoff announcements in its history, as it tries to wring savings from its recent acquisition of Solvay’s pharmaceutical unit.

The Abbott Park, Ill., maker of drugs and medical products had avoided the large-scale cost-cutting measures taken in recent years by rival drug companies that have faced more severe patent expirations and other pressures, though Abbott has made occasional small cutbacks. Abbott has seen revenue and profits grow steadily thanks to rising sales of the anti-inflammatory drug Humira and other products.

 
Comment by wmbz
2010-09-21 13:25:32

Investors seeing farmland as safer bet than stocks
Wary of fluctuations on Wall Street, more wealthy Americans, private funds and foreigners are putting money into parcels of cornfields, fruit orchards and other U.S. agricultural products.
Los Angeles Times

Reporting from Kern County, Calif. — As investors tire of Wall Street’s roller coaster, more of them are plowing their money into land farmland.

Few people understand this shift better than farm manager Carl Evers.

On a recent morning, Evers steered his pickup truck through a Central California almond grove, his drawling sales pitch at the ready. Evers is co-founder of Farmland Management Services, which runs about 30,000 acres of nut groves, fruit orchards and wine grape vines for a Boston investment firm. Sunburned and stocky, tugging down his wide-brimmed hat, he talked about how farmland and the food it produces is the safer bet these troubled days.

“You want to throw your money into something you can’t touch?” said Evers, 50. “Or do you want to put your money here, into soil and sun, into food that feeds people around the world?”

It’s the fourth time this year Evers has wandered through these trees and given his spiel to pension fund managers, hedge-fund operators and hungry investors on behalf of Hancock Agricultural Investment Group. He’s reeled it off many more times over the phone.

Comment by Big V
2010-09-21 13:50:48

Yes! I knew that would happen. Who on this blog doesn’t remember me knowing that was gonna happen? See guys, it always works out in the long run, as long as peeps are free to choose their own investments.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-21 22:14:31

“Wary of fluctuations on Wall Street, more wealthy Americans, private funds and foreigners are putting money into parcels of cornfields, fruit orchards and other U.S. agricultural products.”

Never been a better time to dollar-cost average into stocks, as many others are avoiding the stock market like the plague.

 
Comment by rms
2010-09-21 23:27:36

“Investors seeing farmland as safer bet than stocks”

California farms rely on an ample supply of Mexicans and cheap water free of the delta smelt; both incendiary issues.

 
Comment by ahansen
2010-09-22 00:30:17

Kern Kounty Farm Land Bubble about to burst–what with massive water distribution cut-backs, ag taxes not disclosed upfront, far fewer farm-workers around to harvest, crappy growing season this year with those weird weather fluctuations becoming more and more common, depleted soils, EPA lawsuits, failed hybrid nut trees, radioactive landfills leaking into water table– oh, and the bees. Not gonna get much of a crop without the bees, eh Evers?

The investment now is in unassailable water rights. Not the land dependent upon them. Oh, and in the distribution routes–IE: rail lines.

 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2010-09-21 13:42:57

1. Do you think the economy will enter a double-dip recession?

Yes: 23%

No: 32%

I don’t care what economists say. The recession isn’t over: 45%

****************
Heh, heh, the media mouthpieces are losing control. The smoke and mirrors aren’t working anymore.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/20/news/economy/double_dip_economists_survey/index.htm

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 14:35:05

Three of the more bearish economists put the risk of a double-dip as high as 40%.
[snip]
Not everyone is so pessimistic. Another two economists put the risk at only 5% and a third sees no chance of a double-dip recession at all.

so here we have an “economist” who thinks ther’s no chance? An economist? Zero chance?

Take that guy’s pocket protector away and make him sit in the corner..

 
Comment by rms
2010-09-21 23:18:35

“I don’t care what economists say.”

Neither do I; such a dishonest and flaky profession.

 
 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 14:10:57

It gives me no pleasure to tout Brazil but I do it for comparison and contrast purposes. The America “free-market system” is shot yet the Tea-Party closes ranks to support Billionaire “job creators” (yea, job creators in China)

Brazil has serious trade protectionist policies, strong unions, strong job protection laws, 30 days vacation, attempted “universal” healthcare and a “Socialist” president with a 4th grade education. But they are growing fast and they have lifted 35 million souls out of poverty the past 8 years.

Brazil jobs squeeze could pressure wages higher

http://www.onepakistan.com/finance/news/world-business-news/8129-Brazil-jobs-squeeze-could-pressure-wages-higher.html

June Brazil’s unemployment fell to 7 percent, just over half that of from a recent 2004 high and among the lowest rates since the government began using its current methodology in 2002.That’s a stark contrast to countries such as the United States, with its 9.5 percent unemployment rate, aggravated by chronic long-term joblessness. Brazil’s economy created 1,655,116 new payroll jobs in the first seven months of 2010, according to official figures. The United States, with a population about 50 percent greater than Brazil’s, added just 654,000 jobs to non-farm payrolls over the same period.

The U.S. figures were skewed upwards by temporary jobs for the once-in-a-decade census taking. When adjusted for inflation, wages in Brazil stagnated or even slipped in the early part of the last decade. But monthly salaries have climbed for the past five years. The average paycheck in June 2010 was more than 18 percent bigger than in June 2005,

Unlike still-gloomy labor markets in the United States and parts of Europe, workers looking for jobs in Brazil can find options just by walking down a street. (I know, there’s a joke there somewhere)

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 15:07:01

There’s nothing to be learned by comparing the USA to Brazil. It’s like comparing China to Germany, or Ireland to Australia.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 16:18:19

There’s nothing to be learned by comparing the USA to Brazil.

Of course there is. What is to be learned is what many might have just learned by me comparing them.

Nothing to see here, move along…….?

Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 16:22:01

yeah… well a person can pick and choose the subject, and at the same time pick the results..

lets compare the two countries based on .. i dunno.. How about their relative activities in the transatlantic slave trade?

lets see.. Brazil.. the last country in the world to outlaw slavery?

hmm.. not a good start..

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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 16:41:28

yeah… well a person can pick and choose the subject, and at the same time pick the results..

Wrong: I picked the subject: Brazil: Protectionism, Strong Unions and labor laws etc.

But I didn’t pick the results: (just reporting them) 8% growth rate, 35 million entering middle class, rising pay, dropping unemployment, strong manufacturing, trade surplus

Similar with the Germany subject.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 17:03:34

Pesky dang facts again!

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 17:09:58

8% growth rate, 35 million entering middle class..

That’s great if you compare Brazil today with Brazil yesterday. Brazil is progressing in the right directions.

There is no point and no need to compare Brazil with anyone or anything else. It’s like keeping up with the Joneses.. who gives a #$%@$.. and what does it matter.

As far as economic growth rate, there’s no meaningful comparison between USA and Brazil.

A huge business has a really hard time growing further. It has matured.. while a small business has all the room in the world to grow. You can’t compare growth rate unless both businesses were the same size at the beginning of the comparison’s time period…

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 18:07:31

As far as economic growth rate, there’s no meaningful comparison between USA and Brazil….A huge business (USA) has a really hard time growing further. It has matured.

No, because first of all, America’s “wealth” HAS grown immensely, and faster than Brazil’s. In addition, America is NOT a business. We are a country. That distinction has been blurred and discounted (for selfish benefit)
by the super rich who control our politics and media.

What is important and just, is for America to share the wealth created in a more equal and egalitarian manner. Protecting our jobs is a no-brainer part of that.

This is the point. We’ve shafted the majority to benefit a tiny minority.

That is a difference that comparisons between countries illustrate.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 18:13:51

..This is the point. We’ve shafted the majority to benefit a tiny minority…

And that is your constant mantra. It is NO ACCIDENT that you picked certain statistics that support your foregone conclusion.

as i said before:
yeah… well a person can pick and choose the subject, and at the same time pick the results.. and I was absolutely correct in this instance.

i should have known better than to waste time with you..

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 18:14:48

‘I once said, “greed is good”. Now it seems its legal.’

Wall Street 2

 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 18:42:05

So joey, you admit that you are going to ignore the facts?

We certainly appreciate your honesty. :lol:

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 18:53:46

i should have known better than to waste time with you..

Woa,…. OK

Than maybe you should have known…

If you can’t bring it than maybe you shouldn’t waste our time.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 19:03:35

then then then

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2010-09-21 19:04:33

ecofeco.. i haven’t ignored any facts. I’ve ignored rio’s conclusions. They aren’t worth the cyber-ink he wastes on them.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 19:11:04

It is NO ACCIDENT that you picked certain statistics that support your foregone conclusion.

Well..now that you put it that way….

Maybe it’s “no accident” that I can’t find statistics that support your erroneous Cato/Heritage warped conclusions either.

 
Comment by exeter
2010-09-21 19:15:49

Did you expect a rational discussion with RunJoeyRun?

Ideologues do not have the capacity to engage in rational discussions. Their ideology always gets in the way.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 19:21:45

Maybe it’s “no accident” that I can’t find statistics that support erroneous Cato/Heritage warped conclusions either.

……because they’re aren’t any…….

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-09-21 19:33:16

I’ve ignored rio’s conclusions. They aren’t worth the cyber-ink he wastes on them.

No, they just scare your little world and I know why.

 
 
Comment by CA renter
2010-09-22 04:53:48

Thank you for yet another enlightening post, Rio.

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Comment by In Colorado
2010-09-21 15:34:25

“Brazil has serious trade protectionist policies”

Everybody has “serious trade protectionist policies” except the US and a few other free trade idolators.

I also wonder which index the Brazilian UE rate is more comparable to: U3 or U6? I’m guessing U6. If that is correct then its 7% vs 17%.

Comment by exeter
2010-09-21 18:38:28

RunJoeyRun!

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2010-09-21 18:39:16

“…workers looking for jobs in Brazil can find options just by walking down a street.”

I remember when it was like that in Texas in the 1970s. You could quit your living wage job and have another one before the end of the day.

No exaggeration.

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2010-09-21 18:35:20

A new infrastructure report finds that 6 of the top 10 worst locally maintained roads are in California. San Jose leads the nation in percentages of crummy roads with 64% of its roads being crummy.

Percent of city streets and freeways in poor condition:
1. San Jose (64 percent)
2. Los Angeles (63 percent)
3. Honolulu (62 percent)
4. Concord (58 percent)
5. San Francisco-Oakland (58 percent)
6. New Orleans (55 percent)
7. New York (53 percent)
8. San Diego (50 percent)
9. Indio-Palm Springs (47 percent)
10. Baltimore (46 percent) </i.

Note that I consider #4 to be Concord CA, not Concord MA.

Comment by DennisN
 
Comment by Bill In Los Angeles
2010-09-21 21:20:48

I believe it. The LA street I drive mostly to work (two and a half miles) has been paved smooth - and it took over eighteen fricking months to do the job (unions). But the last quarter mile is hell. I keep thinking of one of the directors of the company I consult to who recently bought an $88,000 Porsche - if he ever drives that stretch of road where I drive my $21,000 ( 7 years ago - now probably $10,000) Toyota.

In contrast, in Ahwatukee, AZ the roads have been nice and smooth. yet somehow in early summer they decided they need to repave the roads. Now that must have been porkbarrel to try to reward Harry Mitchell (DemonCrap) for voting in line with The One.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-21 22:20:30

A watched pot never boils.

Sept. 22, 2010, 12:01 a.m. EDT
Housing isn’t close to stabilizing
Commentary: Shadow inventory paints a more dismal outlook
By Keith Jurow

BRIDGEPORT, Conn. (MarketWatch) — Much has been written about the so-called “shadow inventory” since the term was first coined a few years ago.

Some analysts and commentators have argued about whether it even exists. Let’s take an in-depth look at this shadow inventory and see whether it really is a threat to housing markets around the country.

Shadow inventory defined

Rather than joining the dispute about what the term actually means, I’ll simply define it in this way: The “Shadow Inventory” is comprised of all those distressed residential properties (other than MLS listings) which we know will almost certainly be coming onto the market in the not-too-distant future.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-22 03:48:46

Try not to catch yerself a falling knife, in either the stock or housing markets.

Recession’s end is already priced into stock markets

By Adam Shell, USA TODAY

NEW YORK — Just because the Great Recession has been officially declared dead doesn’t guarantee that stock prices will shoot straight up in the months ahead.

Sure, it’s good news that the National Bureau of Economic Research said Monday that the recession that began in December 2007 officially ended in June 2009. But that doesn’t add up to an “all-clear signal” for investors, says John Stoltzfus, senior market strategist at Ticonderoga Securities.

The reason: The NBER’s declaration that the recession is over is a “lagging indicator.” In other words, it is old news to investors. Many Wall Street firms, as far back as the summer of 2009, were issuing reports saying the trough came in June 2009.

Comment by Carl Morris
2010-09-22 08:19:14

Yup. So what happens when the recession unexpectedly fails to end? Do we just stagnate forever waiting for what already priced in to come to pass, or do we eventually undo the “pricing in” process?

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-09-22 03:54:00

Top Economic Adviser Larry Summers Leaves Obama White House
Washington : VA : USA | Sep 21, 2010

What’s going on? Another one bites the dust on the Obama Economic team. Senior White House Economic Adviser Larry Summers returns to his job at Harvard at the end of the year. Could be a good thing.

New York Times reports:

“Lawrence H. Summers, who for nearly two years has been the architect of President Obama’s economic policies, is leaving the White House at the end of the year, the White House has announced.”

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2010-09-22 03:57:36

Romania needs to borrow $7.9 billion in 2011

The Associated Press
Posted: 6:47 a.m. Wednesday, Sept. 22, 2010

BUCHAREST, Romania — Romania needs to borrow almost euro6 billions ($7.9 billion) next year to cover its budget deficit and plans to sign a new deal with the International Monetary Fund in 2011 to shore up the ailing economy, the president said.

On Wednesday, authorities said some 5,000 people had gathered to protest in the capital of Bucharest against wage cuts and other austerity measures. They were demanding the government increases salaries to the 2009 level and stop layoffs of public workers.

Authorities slashed public sector wages and hiked sales tax to reduce the budget deficit, as the International Monetary Fund requested.

Romania needed euro20 billion (US$26 billion) in bailout loans from the IMF, the European Union and the World Bank in 2009. Part of the funds helped pay state wages and pensions last year, when the country’s economy shrank by 7.1 percent.

President Traian Basescu said the country still needed help with its finances.

 
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