Bits Bucket For October 18, 2010
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The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
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Good morning. I got in from W. Mass last night. For those of you that live in the area, it is stunningly gorgeous. My new goal in life is to become a professor a Westfield State. A gas station there had about 40% of its floor space devoted to the owners Warhammer table. I guess real estate isn’t that expensive!
What is a “Warhammer table”?
Google “warhammer scuba” and click the first link to be enlightened.
Dude! I am *not* going to be your dive buddy.
But the red snappers love it!
It’s a very different game when you play it on a big enough table. It can actually be interesting.
It’s a very different game when you play it on a big enough table.
That’s what Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld discovered.
+1…Good one Alpha…
LOL!!
“For those of you that live in the area, it is stunningly gorgeous.”
You will be eating those words very soon my friend. The winters are dreadfully cold and long. The spring doesn’t arrive until the end of May.
Yes indeed. I still remember a business trip where the Wednesday morning after Labor Day I had to scrape frost off the rental car windshield before I could head out.
Maybe, exeter, but redbeard must realize that (though he is from Florida.) Sometimes you just feel it when a place is right for you. I remember when a couple of friends of mine who were life-long Californians (she from Ventura, he from Burlingame) decided that they wanted to move to Iowa about 25 years ago. I thought they were crazy at the time, since I had just moved from Michigan to California. They are still there, raised their children there and have no intention of moving back.
Whoops, redbeach, not redbeard. Apologies to him and Akira Kurosawa (loved that movie.)
Read Ethan Frome (Edith Wharton) before you make up your mind.
This winter will be the coldest in 1000 years. Global warming, the urban myth and hoax.
One of the prettiest sights in Alexandria bay is the day after an ice storm. Everything in the path of an ice storm gets covered with ice crystals. It is quite beautiful imho. We are indeed having a nice warm gradual leaf change season.
Is that with the power on or off for 2 weeks?
I am usually driving thru towards Montreal or Ottawa for business so the power in my car is definitely on. The day following the ice storm weather is usually clear and sunny and is the perfect time to gaze at a crystal city in amazement. This usually happens in Waretown thru Thousand islands during the January and February months.
It is also lovely when your car has been left outside overnight.
Red Beach = Muggy?
No, but I miss Muggy.
From a Maine House, a National Foreclosure Freeze
DENMARK, Me. — The house that set off the national furor over faulty foreclosures is blue-gray and weathered. The porch is piled with furniture and knickknacks awaiting the next yard sale. In the driveway is a busted pickup truck. No one who lives there is going anywhere anytime soon.
Nicolle Bradbury bought this house seven years ago for $75,000, a major step up from the trailer she had been living in with her family. But she lost her job and the $474 monthly mortgage payment became difficult, then impossible.
It should have been a routine foreclosure, with Mrs. Bradbury joining the anonymous millions quietly dispossessed since the recession began. But she was savvy enough to contact a nonprofit group, Pine Tree Legal Assistance, where for once in her 38 years, she caught a break.
Her file was pulled, more or less at random, by Thomas A. Cox, a retired lawyer who volunteers at Pine Tree. He happened to know something about foreclosures because when he worked for a bank he did them all the time. Twenty years later, he had switched sides and, he says, was trying to make amends.
http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/111040/from-a-maine-house-a-national-foreclosure-freeze?mod=realestate-buy
‘If Mrs. Bradbury is not quite victorious, she is still in her house, and for her that is the only thing that counts. If she can get her pickup fixed, she will go back to looking for a job. ‘I am not leaving,’ she said this week, standing out on her front lawn, the autumn splendor spread all around her. ‘We have nowhere to go.’
The ‘national furor’, the ‘autumn splendor’ ’switching sides and trying to make amends.’
Wow, this all makes such a good story, like little Timmy who fell down the well. Except it’s a buncha BS, as foreclosures are at record levels. Guess what Mrs. Bradbury? Unless you can pay for the house, better get some boxes.
Sounds like the number of foreclosures next year may turn out ‘higher than expected’?
Who’s going to move in, though. That’s what I want to know. Are there enough credit-worthy buyers willing and able to pay for these places. And if not, what would be wrong with giving Mrs. Bradbury a loan mod and letting her stay.
“And if not, what would be wrong with giving Mrs. Bradbury a loan mod and letting her stay.”
1) If the word gets out this deal is available, lots of other cash-strapped home owners will try to qualify.
“Are there enough credit-worthy buyers willing and able to pay for these places.”
2) The question is whether there is one buyer who is more credit-worthy than Mrs. Bradbury, who will step up within a reasonable period of time and show themselves to be willing and able to pay more for the place than Mrs. Bradbury would have been able to pay after a loan modification that would have kept her in the house. Perhaps you are ignoring the timing factor in your assumptions: Once the lender takes possession of REO, time is on their side as regards when to sell it.
If the word gets out this deal is available, lots of other cash-strapped home owners will try to qualify.
And what’s wrong with that??
Once the lender takes possession of REO, time is on their side as regards when to sell it.
Why couldn’t time be on their side anyway? She should say to the lender, I will move out when you find a buyer who will pay a price that is acceptable to you. However, I should be able to bid higher than that buyer if I want. And if the buyer is an investor, I should have a chance to negotiate a rental rate so I can stay.
The point is, with all the hassles of moving, it’s much better if she can stay in the house if at all possible.
The point is, with all the hassles of moving, it’s much better if she can stay in the house if at all possible.
What are you advocating a business model run by a social welfare committee?
“The point is, with all the hassles of moving, it’s much better if she can stay in the house if at all possible.”
Huh? I have moved my family 4 times in five years since moving to Florida. Does you “Keep America Convenient!” plan only apply to “owners?”
Take your logic and place it in that there descending handbasket.
“And what’s wrong with that??”
Why should home owners be a protected class? Is it because they are wealthy, while renters are poor? I thought the whole Democratic platform was all about helping the poor, so I find it odd when I hear people advocating all these policies to help wealthy home owners while letting renters fend for themselves.
What are you advocating a business model run by a social welfare committee?
Not at all. I’m saying there is no value to anyone in evicting this woman if the house is just going to stay vacant for a long time. The foreclosure system should recognize this obvious fact.
“The foreclosure system should recognize this obvious fact.”
Given the sanctity of private contracts between borrower and lender, why shouldn’t the lender have full discretion of how to dispose (or not dispose) of the property if the borrower defaults. Why should the rules be rewritten to overrule lender discretion in this case?
I have no problem with lender discretion, but shareholders (and the public, which charters banks) should be able to demand answers as to why the banks are irrationally holding so many units vacant. If the only reasons are to disguise losses and inflate bonuses, then the banks should be dissolved and have their charters revoked.
I find it odd when I hear people advocating all these policies to help wealthy home owners while letting renters fend for themselves.
I have nothing against renters. I made it clear that one of Mrs. Bradbury’s options should be to BECOME a renter.
I have no problem with lender discretion, but shareholders (and the public, which charters banks) should be able to demand answers as to why the banks are irrationally holding so many units vacant. If the only reasons are to disguise losses and inflate bonuses, then the banks should be dissolved and have their charters revoked.
Hear, hear!
Holding so many units vacant is a sure way to ensure that they’ll become even more rundown. Which means that it will be even harder to sell them for whatever fantasy price the banks think they can get.
“If the only reasons are to disguise losses and inflate bonuses, then the banks should be dissolved and have their charters revoked.”
Now I catch your drift.
I believe the question of whether banks are colluding on efforts to withhold supply from the markets is another important one. So far as I am aware, collusion among private domestic U.S. firms is illegal. Perhaps it is different in the banking sector, given that over half the sector is owned by five or so Wall Street Megabanks?
But her current payment is only $474/month. If the combined income of her, her disabled husband, and her 16-year-old son doesn’t permit her to pay it, it sounds hopeless to me. Maybe they’re out in the boonies where there aren’t any McDonald’s nearby where they can work.
Good point. And the rents can’t be much less that $474 anyway.
No job = zero income. Nothing is affordable on zero income. There are tens of millions of people with ZERO income in this country. Let us thank those responsible for this hideous dearth of jobs. The fact that a woman cannot afford a mortgage payment of less than $500 shows how bad things have gotten in this country. But, at least the bankers are still getting their bonuses, and buying new yachts. That’s important for our society.
But, at least the bankers are still getting their bonuses, and buying new yachts. That’s important for our society.
we’ re going tochange all that 2 weeks fromm tomorrow!#&
And the beautiful thing for the GOP is that as the situation continues to go downhill they can blame everything on Obama.
No job = zero income. Nothing is affordable on zero income.
She should tell the bank, hey, if you give me a job, I can afford the mortgage.
“That’s important for our society.”
More broadly, that’s important for financial oligarchs all over the planet.
Also, if she is unemployed, then saving enough for a deposit on a rental would be impossible. Living in cars is not the answer.
I don’t know. A lot of cars are nicer than my apartment. They cost less and most have A/C.
But on the flip side, the bathroom leaves a bit to be desired.
“…the bathroom leaves a bit to be desired.”
Stick to Chevron stations.
Delusion sells better than reality.
Ben, go easy on Mr. Cox, for he and his brethren are helping to uncover some interesting facts about the housing bubble; for example it is becoming clear that the bankers created MERS as part of a scheme to circumvent the need to file papers with county governments for the purpose of shirking filing fees and facilitating the process of slicing, dicing and pooling mortgages and then selling them as mortgage backed securities. In other words, they set out to create a privatized, unregulated, shadow land title system. But instead of being a paragon of free market efficiency, the system they created is proving to be a morass of shoddy paperwork, lost documents and outright fraud. It will take a decade or more to sort all this out. Mr. Cox is simply helping to shine some much needed light.
+1 George. And I must say that your comments are the most concise, well-worded, and fact-filled I’ve seen in years. I’ve saved this comment as a textbook example of a well-written paragraph.
And there’s something else I was wondering the other day: are individual mortgages kept intact within the MBS, or are houses sliced and diced too? For example, if you have a security with say, 3 houses worth $100K, $200K, and $300K, can you sell 6 separate $100K shares? It’s clear that an investor owns title to a full $100K house, but who owns title to the $300K house? And what happens when the $300K house forecloses and is worth $200K?
I guess the banks counted on all the houses being liquidated into fungible dollars, but that’s not quite legal, because somebody has to own title to a whole house.
Kinda reminds me of those divorcing couples who saw the dog in half.
I’m sure that the shareholders of the MBS each own an undivided interest in ALL of the mortgages in the group. The concept of undivided interest is common in real estate law. When several unmarried people get together and buy a house, they generally take title as tennants-in-common, where they each have an undivided interest in the entire house. They can’t point to one side of the house and say “that’s my side of the house”. Rather they each have a share of the entire house.
If the MBS forecloses on one of the mortgages, the shareholders presumably take title to the REO as tennants-in-common.
I don’t think that’s right at all. I did some work on CMO’s in the 90s and there were any number of ways payments could be sliced and diced within a loan. The loans got pooled and then split up into “tranches”, and different tranches got different payments depending on the pre-payments within the pool. If there was a default, the guarantor paid off the loan and that counted as a pre-payment from the standpoint of the investors.
I read that some loans’ interest and principal repayments were separated and sold to different entities.
I have posed this question before so forgive me, I have never gotten an answer.
If wanted to buy a particular mortgage, not just any, but the mortgage of a particular address (grandma’s house say) and it was wrapped up in a sliced and diced MBS, would it be possible to tease it out to sell it?
In a word, no. You’d have to get the permission of all the banks and MBS holders and unwind the whole thing.
‘a morass of shoddy paperwork, lost documents and outright fraud’
That’s the stuff of a national furor, alright. Forget about wars started on false pretenses, or a seriously fragile economy. By god, these guys were signing stuff without reading it! (Let’s forget about all the FBs who didn’t read the loan docs, though, huh?)
‘It will take a decade or more to sort all this out’
This is the stuff that gets me about this so-called story. (It’s been there all along, but anyway). One, nobody cares. I mention it to people in the foreclosure biz and they don’t even know about it. We’re all too busy foreclosing houses. Which brings up Two: it hasn’t had any real effect. There is so much in the pipeline, they can make some halt somewhere in the stream and tell that to the public, and there’s still plenty to foreclose on. This is what happened in the 2008-09 moratorium, which was much broader. And did you miss my comment about the guy I was working with that had his house foreclosed by BOA just this past week?
OMG, somebody call the wall street journal, this moratorium is a sham, they are still kicking little old ladies out into the street! Somehow, I don’t expect the press to call and pursue this revelation of mine; they’re having too much fun going on about autumn splendor and all that.
Three; I took some RE law courses in college. We would do things on the tests, like decision trees for who has title. These would involve everything you could think of; generational this and that, fraud, lost documents, everything. The upshot of it was, and we were told this directly; the system is set up to establish clear title no matter what.
You won’t even remember this happened in ten years, and I’ll bet the medias’ typical attention span will wear off on this thing pretty soon. Meanwhile, did you hear that the past quarter was the highest for foreclosures ever? Did you know there’s an election on and DC hasn’t made it clear what will happen with the GSE’s? There’s been a complete turn around on the shadow inventory and the banks are starting to dump this stuff? Things are afoot that have a huge bearing on how long this bubble will go on, and what the price of houses will be in the near future.
So does that mean that my little MBS security can only be sold in increments of $300K?
The question is this, as I see it: Is all the proper ‘paperwork’ out there, and the banks were just rushing things along too fast?
Or is there no proper ‘paperwork’ backing up the claims of ownership?
If it’s the former, then yes, this is a pretty small story.
If it’s the latter, then this is a huge story.
I’m not sure we’ve found out which one it is yet. I, for one, am loath to take the banksters word for it that they’ve got all the proper documentation. They haven’t been too honest with us thus far.
“There’s been a complete turn around on the shadow inventory and the banks are starting to dump this stuff?”
Do you have an idea of what caused this to turn around?
That’s easy, Skye. The inventory wants to come out of the shadows! They are tired of being treated like second-class housing. They have taken to the streets, signs flapping in the wind…
You mean we have to treat them like they are equal? When will the madness stop?
My question for you, Ben is: are you seeing all those foreclosed houses come onto the market (mls), or are they just adding to the monstrous shadow inventory? There is a lot of land and houses which seem to be sitting idle, that I am aware of, and I wonder if this is the case everywhere, and how long this can go on (perhaps forever with the tricky accounting all the banks engage in).
“…the system is set up to establish clear title no matter what.”
A most important detail to know; thanks Ben…
‘are you seeing all those foreclosed houses come onto the market’
Most definitely. The BOA foreclosure I mentioned was listed one day after the trustee sale. Two years ago, the sale at the courthouse steps (which is the formality of actual foreclosure) would have been postponed over and over.
“‘are you seeing all those foreclosed houses come onto the market’
Most definitely.”
And are you seeing those foreclosed houses getting quickly snapped up? If yes, who is snapping them?
Things are afoot that have a huge bearing on how long this bubble will go on, and what the price of houses will be in the near future.
you got my attention Ben
‘foreclosed houses getting quickly snapped up’
They were selling quickly during the tax credit, and still move fairly fast. The thing is, they are purposefully priced under market, so if someone really wants a house, it’s a much better deal. Of course, in 6 months or a year, they’ll be priced under that market too, but most people aren’t really aware of the big picure or where this is all headed. I will say that there are only so many buyers at any given point, and one reason I think the lenders are bringing so many houses to market is they sense the REO buyer urgency is gone. IOW, they’ve been stealing buyers from the future.
Although I found it interesting that a volunteer, 66-year-old attorney is asking for and got $27,000 in fees. Old ways die hard. Unless he’s planning to donate it to the foundation for which he volunteers.
He probably will donate the fee award and I wouldn’t be surprised if he stated his intent when he requested fees. Judges tend to be sympathetic to fee requests when the attorney is volunteering their services to a legal aid organization &the money will go back to them.
Since this guy worked for the dark side earlier in his career, he’s probably having a blast representing the very same people he once steamrolled. I used to work for a firm that went after nonpaying hospital patients but after I left there and volunteered for the legal aid panel, I’d have loads of fun turning the tables on the hospital attorneys.
I tell ya…Its one thing to be stealth about staying in your home, not paying for anything except utilities and some people who openly brag about it…No honor…No ethics…No dignity…
or No Insight?
If a few repairs on an old pickup truck is truly all that is standing in the way of her keeping the house, Acorn might consider stepping up and footing the mechanics bill.
I wonder if banks would consider doing leasebacks to FBs in highly impacted areas where a listing is likely to sit cuz there is 20 identical ones already foreclosed on and for sale and empty?
How does this formula help anyone: The trustee’s sale happens, property likely goes back to the bank, the property added to their lengthy list of REO, ex-owner evicted, and prop sits in an acute state of disrepair for many months. Noone buys it, no money comes in, and perfectly fine property gets damaged from neglect, prices fall. Seems like this formula would be awful for the bank’s balance sheet to me.
During the potentially long duration during which the bank has it up for sale, certain FB’s still occupying house may actually be helpful to the banks, keeping the home in decent shape, paying market rent versus bank receiving nothing. At least enough $$ from the lease back could balance out the carrying costs for the bank, and the REO would then not be a drain, property values would be better preserved, IMO.
Then FB may not be peeved, and knowing they were rightfully foreclosed on, but treated decently, they may tend to leave the custom blinds, the dishwasher, the oven, etc. in place. The place sells more quickly, for more $$, because its in better shape than those who left with a chip (of damaged drywall) on their shoulder. Bank scratches FB’s back, FB returns favor, home eventually sells for more not to mention it cash flowed for the bank after foreclosure.
I remember HBB predicting this exact scenario happening, especially with taxpayer-backed FHA/Fannie/Freddie loans. I understand the value of such a program, but the moral hazard REALLY peeves me. Can these FB’s even afford the “market rent” on the McMansions they’ve been buying, or will they get a Section 8 subsidy so they can continue to live with their fancy granite countertops that they could never buy in a normal market? Will they continue to drive the Escalade they bought with their HELOC? (After all, it doesn’t matter whether the empty house used to contain a responsibel FB or a high-livin’ HELOC-er.) And are WE going to subsidize this?
So who fixes the toilet when it breaks? Sure, the banks could hire a property management firm, but dang if the banks couldn’t properly service their loans who would want them for a landlord?
“I wonder if banks would consider doing leasebacks to FBs in highly impacted areas where a listing is likely to sit cuz there is 20 identical ones already foreclosed on and for sale and empty?”
IIRC, Fannie May was working on a program like that. In this woman’s case, however, she has no job, ergo no income even for rent.
‘they may tend to leave the custom blinds, the dishwasher, the oven, etc. in place’
This is routine, cash-for-keys, and I’ve handed over the check to both ‘owners’ and renters. But they want them out by a certain date.
‘The place sells more quickly’ if it is vacant and cleaned up a bit. Nobody wants to show/look at a house with the FBs sitting on the couch.
That reminds me of that scene in Closing Escrow, where the realtor says he never breathes in through his nose when he first walks in a house, cuz most stink.
“How does this formula help anyone: The trustee’s sale happens, property likely goes back to the bank, the property added to their lengthy list of REO, ex-owner evicted, and prop sits in an acute state of disrepair for many months. Noone buys it, no money comes in, and perfectly fine property gets damaged from neglect, prices fall. Seems like this formula would be awful for the bank’s balance sheet to me.”
How about lowering the f***ing price so it sells? Is it that hard to comprehend? Every single REO will sell immediately if it’s priced right. The banks are delusional, trying to make a market which doesn’t exist. They need to cut the price until it sells, period.
Don’t BORGART that JOINT my friend pass it over to me. Some have liberal ideas in California prop 19 on the ballot. To forsclose or not to forclose that is the question.
Er, roger, have you been sampling the weed?
Luxury sales rebound to pre-crisis levels
Luxury sales forecast to surge 10 percent this year as wealthy Americans replenish wardrobes
MILAN (AP) — The luxury sector is rebounding better-than-expected this year thanks in large part to wealthy Americans replenishing their wardrobes after a year of self-denial and nouveau riche Chinese indulging in a worldwide spending spree, according to a new study released Monday.
Sales of designer clothes, fine leather goods, jewelry, watches and other indulgences around the globe is forecast to surge 10 percent to euro168 billion ($236.7 billion) in 2010, recovering from a disastrous 2009 when sales declined 8 percent to euro153 billion, Bain & Co. said in its annual review of the sector commissioned by Italy’s Fondazione Altagamma association of high-end producers.
“It is really impressive how customers have rebounded in their approach to these purchases, in particular in the United States and in Europe,” said Bain partner and luxury goods expert Claudia D’Arpizio.
Sales in the U.S. market were up by 12 percent, compared with 6 percent growth in Europe and 22 percent growth in Asia, Bain said.
Leather goods, the only category to hold steady during last year’s dramatic declines, is expected to grow by 16 percent to euro43 billion, while apparel, the leading sector, grew by 8 percent to euro45 billion.
The holiday season will solidify the results, and Bain is allowing for a final tally of 9 percent growth for modest increases and 11 percent if shoppers come out strong. Growth will cool in 2011 to 3 percent to 5 percent due to the likely continued lowering of the dollar against the euro and the strength of this year’s sales.
On a different note, our state fair is setting attendance records, and the crowds are spending at record levels also. I guess everyone knows that the little recession is over and it’s back to blowing money as fast as you can.
Get rid of those worth less and less dollars!
State Fair in October ??
Texas state fair just ended yesterday.
It is in Texas, IIRC. Not sure where else.
Maybe he means the Renaissance Faires? I went to one this fall and the place was mobbed. At $25 a pop. Maybe Eddie was right?
Cheaper than a plane ticket.
The NYS fair in August set attendance records this year too.
But, there was just a blurb on about more and more airlines reducing, or eliminating altogether, their first class and business class cabins. The airlines say that peoples’ demand for the lowest fares possible mean those seats aren’t getting filled (at least at the prices the airlines want to fill them - mile upgrades are cute for the traveler but they don’t put kerosene in the wings)
As for the story at hand, gee whiz it leads to a conundrum. While it would be nice to use it as part of the recovery spin, it probably isn’t something the regular Joe cares to hear right now.
“As for the story at hand, gee whiz it leads to a conundrum. While it would be nice to use it as part of the recovery spin, it probably isn’t something the regular Joe cares to hear right now.”
I seem to recall reading similar stories during previous recessions, where it was explained that the wealthy were usually unaffected by recessions.
While luxury car sales might be holding up, the aggregate car market is still weak, limping along at 11-12 million per year.
Nobody actually buys First class seats (not domestic FC anyway), those seats are only really there for the frequent flyers (as a perk); eliminating them would remove the “loyalty” that the FFers have to a particular airline over another airline (why would “status” matter anymore?). So, I seriously doubt that the legacy carriers will be pulling them out anytime soon.
Now the discount carriers? I don’t think that many of them have FC at all today, if they pulled them all, it still wouldn’t make much of a difference. The discount carriers are almost universally avoided by business travelers (because there’s no way to become “elite” on those airlines), so the loss of that revenue would make little/no difference anyway.
But for the legacy/long haul carriers? I think pulling FC would be suicide; they would then compete (for business travel) only on the basis of price (and routing/times), there would be no more “loyal flier” in the fleet.
While your argument makes a lot of sense in the context of the previous decade, these are usually uncertain times and some airlines seem to be wondering if extra coach capacity might not be more lucrative than consumer loyalty. ( btw, while working for a legacy airline, we were told at orientation that people will switch their “loyalty” for as little as a $1 fare difference)
Besides, the scaling back, or even removal, of FC and Biz is a down and dirty way to increase capacity on the cheap. It’s a heckuva lot cheaper than adding planes.
“some airlines seem to be wondering if extra coach capacity might not be more lucrative than consumer loyalty”
It won’t be. They might think it will be, but, without FC, they all have become Southwest/Sprit (and the other LC carriers) and will only be able to compete on price. Business travelers spend thousands of dollars (extra) per year to fly their preferred airline; if there’s no “carrot” anymore, they will just all go to the cheapest and most direct airline. Planes can’t (or almost can’t) fly if everyone is buying cheap fares, most of the carriers depend on business travel (which is far more price insensitive) paying 2-3X what they could pay if they flew other carriers (in some situations) to stay afloat.
AA/USAir/Continental, etc cannot compete with LUV/Spirit/JetBlue on price. Even removing FC wouldn’t get them there; their entire business model needs to change to more closely resemble the 2nd tier carriers (emphasize direct flight, no hub/spoke model/etc).
I’d shoot myself (well, not really, but I’d stop flying) if I had to use a economy carrier for my business travel. I’ll fly them for pleasure but doing 100K of business travel a year in coach on Southwest (with the cattle call boarding) would be a career ending event for me.
Love your sense of entitlement!
My company flies coach. Period. And as a shareholder, I appreciate that.
Try being a defense contractor and flying MAC….
Potential..
If you’re talking to me (I’m not sure), then you’re not flying enough to understand the system. I have only purchased a FC ticket once (EVER) in my entire life. I’ve done 60+ flights this year, probably only 2-3 of them in coach. ALL of those flights this year were on coach tickets that were upgraded, I can’t book FC through my company (who can?), but, when flying a legacy carrier, once you fly enough, you’re almost always in FC regardless of the ticket you actually book.
However, if you fly a discount carrier, this isn’t an option. And that’s what I’m talking about, the difference in price between a discounted legacy carrier compared to a “discount airline” fare.
My point is, for those who fly all the time, the FC seats are the only real carrot left. Take them away, and then you’ve got no more “loyalty” program that’s worth the paper it’s printed on.
Sometimes I pay for FC. Every once in awhile the difference between coach and FC is just a few bucks - and sooo worth it.
Domestic First Class is complete joke, especially compared to what it was ten years ago. Business class on any over-water flight makes domestic “first class” look pathetic.
Ex:
Couldn’t agree more. Domestic FC is almost never paid for though (see my post above), where long haul FC is almost always paid for. So, if you’re going to pay 5K for a ticket to England, it darn well better be special!
I really think that domestic FC is to keep those who fly a ton from going postal and killing themselves. It’s a perk for the pain they have to endure, not something that you’d actually pay more for. I always kind of chuckle when people say “must be nice” (or something like that) when I’m boarded in domestic FC. Yes, it’s nicer than your seat. But the only way you get here is to fly WAY too much and deal with so much BS that it makes my head hurt to even think about it. So, yes, it’s nice. But it would be even NICER to be at home not traveling at all (which is where I’d be if I didn’t have to travel for work)!
Busineses stopped buying 1st/business seats. Remember the fuor over GM/Chrysler CEOs flying private jets to DC to ask for a bailout? Wall Street took notice.
My company only allows business class on long haul flights and all business travel us booked through an agency they hired. Traveler’s preferences secondary, if considered at all.
Delta is hiring 1000 new employees. I flew last week on Southwest. Both ways the plane was about 85-90% full. And this was flying out Tues and coming back Weds, the two slowest days of the week for business travel.
The last time I flew on Southwest the plane was about 80% empty. It made for quick deplaning once we reached our destination.
Kidding aside the real question is not how Delta or Southwest are doing. The real question is how is the overall airline industry doing in the US. Judging by the overall ancient fleet (average aircraft age is what? 15+ years) I would say that happy days aren’t here.
Perhaps someone has some statistics?
I took four Southwest flights last week. The itinerary:
Phoenix-Denver
Denver-Detroit
Detroit-Chicago
Chicago-Phoenix
All four flights were full.
Green shoots!
Flights are cheap (ish) right now. I just bought a round trip NYC to San Fran for $259. Not too bad.
My wife and I want to go to Japan again for New Year celebration, but it is way higher this year. Any tips?
Obama’s going to get smacked for this one. “This is what the rich did with their bail-out money” etc. Of course the bail-out crossed party lines.
~Peter Berkowitz, writing in the Wall Street Journal, sums up the TEA Party.
“Born in response to President Obama’s self-declared desire to fundamentally change America, the tea party movement has made its central goals abundantly clear. Activists and the sizeable swath of voters who sympathize with them want to reduce the massively ballooning national debt, cut runaway federal spending, keep taxes in check, reinvigorate the economy, and block the expansion of the state into citizens’ lives.
“In other words, the tea party movement is inspired above all by a commitment to limited government. And that does distinguish it from the competition.”
~ Liberals Cannot Understand the TEA Party.
The Tea Party wants their medicare, wants their social security, wants strong defense spending, and wants smaller government, smaller deficits, and less taxes. That these desires are mutually impossible has once again been hidden from them by convincing them that cracking down on welfare queens and ’socialism’ will bring about their desired goals. Which, of course, it won’t.
In other words, the Tea Party is just the Republican base, being misguided as usual. Their temporary realization that they’d been played for fools by their own party leaders has been successfully papered over by the mama grizzlies and glen becks, and the false belief that they’re part of some new, revolutionary movement. (There are also a few independents and libertarians in the movement, who mistakenly think their time has come, when they’re really just being herded in along with the usual sheep.)
and the false belief that they’re part of some new, revolutionary movement ??
Exactly…Same wall with new wallpaper…Same social agenda…
Of course liberals don’t understand. In their twisted view, anyone who doesn’t want the govt to run every single aspect of their life makes no sense. It is incomprehensible to a liberal that some people just want to be left the hell alone by the govt and live their lives.
It also doesn’t matter what liberals think. In 2 weeks from tomorrow what they think won’t mean much anymore.
Keep telling yourself that TardBoi.
Remember, don’t believe anyone who’s on commission; and, don’t vote for any incumbant !!!
So 2008 Hope and Change was a new movement. But 2010 is some sort of new wallpaper? I see.
I thought conservatism and the GOP died in 2008. That’s what the MSM and HBB kept telling me. Funny how that turned out eh?
What will BHO run on in 2012? More Hope? More change? Change the Hope? Hope for Change? Change to Hope? Hopey, Changey? The possibilities are endless. You can fool the masses once, I don’t think it’ll work again. Lots of those 20 year old Kool Aid drinkers who slobbered all the way to the ballot box in 2008 will be 24 year old unemployed in 2012. They may have a different take.
He’ll run on top of and over you……. again. lmao.
interesting article about the roots of the TP;
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/10/18/101018fa_fact_wilentz
“~ Liberals Cannot Understand the TEA Party.”
I’m not sure anyone does, including the Tea Partiers, who want reduced taxes but yet support expensive wars while waving signs that say “Leave my SS and Medicare alone”.
Funny how when it benefits them socialism is OK. Or maybe they don’t even think of Social Security or Medicare as socialism?
Most Tea Party supporters are not pro war. Wars increase government size and spending.
They’re pro war as long as it means killing brown people.
LOL!
I know we love to see racism everywhere, but I don’t think it’s deserved in many cases including this one. If you want to generalize I think it’s more like “They’re pro war as long as it means killing people they have a grudge against”. 9/11 created a big grudge, but so did Saddam’s behavior after his “unconditional surrender”. The biggest grudge of all may be Iran in 1979…which means I won’t be shocked if we end up there even if it makes no sense in today’s world.
Our young friend worked in a local grocery store over the summer before going to college in Richmond, VA. He said he was talking to a customer about his kid sister having a tea party. A lady farther back in line went to management and turned him in for talking about racist tea party political stuff. His manager thought it was hilarious.
It’s the Anger phase. Not supposed to have solutions. A living organism without a head. Waiting for a little man with a Napoleon complex who screams and spits into the microphone to give them a cohesive policy.
Shudder…
Ross Perot?
Waiting for a little “TrueRogue™” Sarah The Barracuda with a
NapoleonCSA (Confederate States of Alaska) complex who screams and spits into the microphone to give them a cohesive “TruePatriot™ / TruePurity™” policy.“Sarah Palin said,…”
“Sarah Palin said,…”
“Sarah Palin said,…”
Has their “TrueGoal™” changed?:
Previous Presidential Precedent Political spoils: “I wanna be “The Decider!””
Or how good blue-collar manufacturers/farmers can allow their jobs to be offshored/insourced, and then call it “god’s will.”
Liberals understand the Tea Party just fine, at least in an intellectual sense. If there were a test on Tea Party beliefs, then most libs would score an A. But libs disagree so much with their hypocritical tenets, their internal contradictions, and their unquestioning faith in what the corporate-owned media feeds them as a narrative, that, yes, liberals “can’t understand” how tea-partiers can be so flippin’ BLIND.
“hypocritical tenets, their internal contradictions, and their unquestioning faith in what the corporate-owned media feeds them as a narrative”
Thank the ever lovin God that all such have been shoved into the John Birch Society so that the rest of us sane people can carry on with Truth.
I watched the Glenn Beck Tea Party rally online (ok, I was stuck in bed that day) and I was struck at the religious overtones and how much of it was tied to troop support. It is not a libertarian movement, more of a cultural phenomenon. And I don’t think the average tea partier is half as thoughtful as wmbz.
I don’t find many of those in my own party to be overly “thoughtful”.
That’s a good obs. Hijacking grass roots ideas is a staple tactic of party wonks/hacks. If one party could hijack the anti-war movement for a boost in the polls - why can’t the other do the same with the tea party?
In both cases the initial good intentions of the core adherents are swamped with other, often contradictory, ideologies and their collective frustration grows. Meanwhile the established party machines live to run another day.
edge,
Uh… ‘how’ long have people in this country been clamoring for a Third Party? At least as long as I’ve been alive ( 51 yrs. ) Did we ‘really’ think this entity would have all it’s ducks in a row from inception?
Things borne of anger often do seem disjointed from the outset, storm and later take form. I have no idea what or ‘if’ the TP will become. But I suppose backing off and giving them some air would be too much to ask?
If they slanted toward the Left ( would have to endure the same level of bile? ) Let’s take a step back here.
Things borne of anger often do seem disjointed from the outset, storm and later take form. I have no idea what or ‘if’ the TP will become. But I suppose backing off and giving them some air would be too much to ask?
Here’s some good air.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y
Tea Party peoples are intelegent., There is now way they can be misled by bigmoney and as the lady says at 0.53 John Wayne and Joseph McCarthy were right and that at 4:22 I learned “BarakObama” translates to “Antichrist” in the Bible. I think under Hebrews.
And we don’t need no stinkin Zars.
If you make fun of people less intelligent than yourself, you have narrowed your field considerably.
If you make fun of people less intelligent than yourself, you have narrowed your field considerably.
I’m sorry iffin I offended you.
No, I was sure you weren’t making fun of me.
No, I was sure you weren’t making fun of me.
Good. Self-esteem is important for everyone.
Then you’ll like these Tea Party interviews. I learned a lot. Especially at 2:01 about the Obama plan gonna send us a $50 check for “the blue end of life pill” to end our life if we get sick.
And at 2:50 where the 67 year old Medicare recipient rails against “socialized” medicine.
And at 7:53 where we learn where the Tea Partiers get all their news.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pilG7PCV448
“And at 2:50 where the 67 year old Medicare recipient rails against “socialized” medicine. ”
This would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic. Maybe she thinks that Medicare is provided by corporate America.
Or maybe they don’t even think of Social Security or Medicare as socialism?
Well, they’re a little confused about it themselves. From a New York Times story on the Tea Party:
“And nearly three-quarters of those who favor smaller government said they would prefer it even if it meant spending on domestic programs would be cut.
But in follow-up interviews, Tea Party supporters said they did not want to cut Medicare or Social Security — the biggest domestic programs, suggesting instead a focus on “waste.”
Some defended being on Social Security while fighting big government by saying that since they had paid into the system, they deserved the benefits.
Others could not explain the contradiction.
“That’s a conundrum, isn’t it?” asked Jodine White, 62, of Rocklin, Calif. “I don’t know what to say. Maybe I don’t want smaller government. I guess I want smaller government and my Social Security.” She added, “I didn’t look at it from the perspective of losing things I need. I think I’ve changed my mind.”
“Just don’t throw my tea into the harbor.”
committing to specific entitlement cuts, pre-election is political suicide. the liberals will be shouting from the rooftops that the blanks want to cut your social security while we on the left are committed to preserving it. the fact that the math doesn’t work out or that the trust fund was embezzled will not get the press.
focus on waist as well as reversing the increasing spending is a pre-election starting point, it doesn’t mean it is all we have.
suggesting that those close to or already dependent on ss and medicare need to have their benefits preserved is then twisted (as it is in posts above) as being pro-socialism. entitlment fix will happen one way or another, better to phase it in then to depend on QE2,3, … to eliminate the value of the promised dollars.
painting the tea-party as pro-war is missing the head on the nail as well. as well as the mis-characterized quotes above we heard george will argue to the shock/horrer of the abc news panel that the tea-party influence was a positive. will supports terminating the war, i do, many that think like do as well.
i read no mention above about the tea-party’s focus on the federal govt living within the enumerated powers of the constitution.
Yep, and the Medicare provision is listed in the Constitution right next after the article establishing the Air Force.
“Some defended being on Social Security while fighting big government by saying that since they had paid into the system, they deserved the benefits.”
But if they want cuts in Social Security and Medicare, those cuts should occur immediately, not just be applied down the road to future beneficiaries. They should at least have to experience the wisdom of their decisions rather than simply putting the worst impacts on others.
Those retiring now will likely get a much greater return relative to funds paid into the system than those that entered the labor force from the mid-1980’s on, even if benefits or the retirement age aren’t changed.
I am69,and participate in both SS&MC and will gladly give both up in return for ???
Perhaps the freedom to live the rest of my life without government’s stupidity. Fat chance.
Better be something.there is no free lunch.
they don’t think it’s socialism because they paid into the system.
to some extent…they are right…to some extent.
i’m close to retirement age, ss was sold to me as a mandatory investment into a retirement trust-fund at the cost of 14+% of most of my earnings.
i didn’t support the looting of the fund, nor the loss of value of my dollars. as ss became socialism it also became a failed policy.
SS has ALWAYS been a pay as you go socialist system. Its modest surpluses have always been absconded and spent by the Federal Government, no matter who was in charge. Its not a traditional pension plan and never has been.
It was obvious to us 40 years ago that our contributions were paying the benefits of our grandmothers. No one thought our money was being saved up somewhere.
Hey retards…. SS is a risk pool, just like homeowners insurance or auto insurance. But don’t ask me… refer to the actuary tables yourself.
You need a conversation with Dan Webster on the socialism boogeymen but let me help you.
The primary fundamental of “socialism” is worker ownership of production capacity. There isn’t a nation on the globe that’s further from that fundamental than the US. And no… there is no wiggle room on this one. The productive capacity was offshored over the last 30 years. It’s not even on this continent anymore.
Nice try though.
exeter,
If you’re referring to In Colorado and Blue Skye as “retards” I’d really rather you didn’t. Two of the more sensible voices here and I’ve always valued their opinions. Calm down, please.
You calm down and *think*. By virtue of the fact the Colorado or Blue don’t float daily hobgoblins on the blog, it should be evident who I’m talking to.
thanks for the personal insult
“You calm down”
I don’t care ‘who’ it was directed at. It’s just not cordial. Why is it you’re just miserable unless you’re “locking horns” w/ someone/everyone?
Supposing asking you to look at things other than thru the lens of defending your party at all costs 24/7 is just too much to ask. Seriously, chill.
Exeter: “The primary fundamental of “socialism” is worker ownership of (the means of) production.
Thank you.
One of the things that also really drives me crazy is how so many people confuse political systems VS. economic systems.
for example, you can have:
socialism + democracy
socialism + fascism
capitalism + democracy
capitalism + fascism
Why is this so hard to grasp???
“thanks for the personal insult”
I’m happy to see you accept the truth as an insult.
Here’s your typical T-Pardee type……
http://tinyurl.com/25ynfbx
So sad…. so pathetic…. so ignorant.
Stooping kind of low with that, don’t you think?
a liberal who uses the word “retard” in such a derogatory fashion thinks the palin supporter is ignorant.
I wish Ben would step into these little political pissing matches. I’ve been on and off this blog (mostly as a lurker) since 2005 and I’m really getting put off by the personal sniping. There are still good information and insights to be found here but the petty bitchiness has really got to go.
Let me ask this - this blog has been visible [to me] for five years now. I’ve seen a few people make some money by acting on said insight but by and large I see no real “results” from all the time invested here. I think most of us agree that fairly major upheavals are still in the intermediate or even near future. Why don’t you guys turn your energies toward charting a course of action for how to profit. Remember that great fortunes are made in times of crisis, and Liberal or Conservative I think anyone on this blog would like to see other readers doing well (like many did when Countrywide and friends melted down).
‘great fortunes are made in times of crisis’
Some of us are working on that, but I for one am limited to what I can say online. But yes, there’s some serious bucks to be made.
I’ve seen a few people make some money by acting on said insight but by and large I see no real “results” from all the time invested here.
Some of the results are invisible, in the form of money not lost. When it comes to making a great fortune, I don’t have the confidence that I understand things well enough to even attempt it. I’m just trying to avoid losing my 401(k).
i have not lost much if anything…i have save a couple hundred grand by NOT buying a house in 2006.
“Some of the results are invisible, in the form of money not lost.”
That was my thought, exactly. Along those lines, we could discuss:
1) Not underwater on a money pit.
2) Positive net worth.
3) Saw it coming and assumed crash position before landing.
Etc etc etc…
I have a personal hunch that most of the really big money has been made by the TBTF banks which can get zero-interest loans on their gambling chips. Individual middle-class households, against whom the playing field is systemically tilted, do well to survive financially during times like these.
but mr. market get’s even with everyone…by taking my wife’s job.
I did ok, and much of the credit is due to this blog. That’s why Mr. Jones is in my “Free Beer for Life” club.
“…by taking my wife’s job…”
Our household income similarly declined (but luckily we have a portfolio of employment activities…)
‘great fortunes are made in times of crisis’
Some of us are working on that
A conversation between my $million big brother & ol’ Hwy is forthwith “coming soon!”
BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! (fpss™)
&
BWAHAHAHicHAHAHicHAHAHAHAHicHAHAHic* (DennisN™)
Ho ho, hah hah, hehehehehehe, BwaHaHaAhHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! (Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower™)
Don’t be fooled by the ‘big government’ argument. These Tea Partiers are factions of the same Republicans who want to corporatize everything. They fund the party, send out the loud crazy people and pull the strings of ‘government can’t do anything’. They are not anti-government, they are pro-profits. There is money to be made in everything, from SS to schools to highways. Less government = more corporatization = profits.
don’t forget the tea party is removing republicans from primaries as well as threatening democrats. your claim that we are minions of republicans who want to corporatize everything isn’t true, can you support that?
less govt = more freedom
less govt = more small buisness
less govt = more opportunity
more profit = more prosperity
the movement isn’t trying to move from big govt to big corporations, it is trying to move towards our roots, limited govt and maximized freedom.
You are minions of the Republicans, and its a shame.
Just so we are clear, which Tea Party are you associated with? People forget there are two: The Ron Paul LIbertarian movement, and the Santelli “Poor us baby boomers - we got screwed! Lets cut Government, but not SS or Medicare! And dont cut defense spending, lets keep nation building in Iraq and Afghanistan, but not pass TARP to build our own nation” Party.
The fact you’d have more of a following if you had a simple primary message of “cut taxes and spending”. Hell, I’d sign up today! But when you hear the secondary argument of the “Birthers” or the “Death Panels” or the “BP Shakedown” it gets tiresome.
I listen to some liberal msm but msnbc is beyond where I go. I don’t listen to Santelli.
I don’t agree that there are 2 groups of tea party people but I do like Ron and Rand Pual.
I do want to abolish the FED and see an audit as a first step.
I don’t agree that the tea party is about corporate interest and funding. Do you think that corporate money should only be donated to Democrates and progressive Republicans?
I don’t agree that the tea party is about corporate interest and funding.
Vive la révolution!
Frank Rich NYTimes
There’s just one element missing from these snapshots of America’s ostensibly spontaneous and leaderless populist uprising: the sugar daddies who are bankrolling it, and have been doing so since well before the “death panel” warm-up acts of last summer. Three heavy hitters rule. You’ve heard of one of them, Rupert Murdoch. The other two, the brothers David and Charles Koch, are even richer, with a combined wealth exceeded only by that of Bill Gates and Warren Buffett among Americans. But even those carrying the Kochs’ banner may not know who these brothers are.
Their self-interested and at times radical agendas, like Murdoch’s, go well beyond, and sometimes counter to, the interests of those who serve as spear carriers in the political pageants hawked on Fox News. The country will be in for quite a ride should these potentates gain power, and given the recession-battered electorate’s unchecked anger and the Obama White House’s unfocused political strategy, they might.
All three tycoons are the latest incarnation of what the historian Kim Phillips-Fein labeled “Invisible Hands” in her prescient 2009 book of that title: those corporate players who have financed the far right ever since the du Pont brothers spawned the American Liberty League in 1934 to bring down F.D.R. You can draw a straight line from the Liberty League’s crusade against the New Deal “socialism” of Social Security, the Securities and Exchange Commission and child labor laws to the John Birch Society-Barry Goldwater assault on J.F.K. and Medicare to the Koch-Murdoch-backed juggernaut against our “socialist” president.
I love how much the tea party movement infuriates liberals. On Nov 2 I will be watching msnbc. Should be more fun than the Super Bowl watching Chrissie Matthews, Kweefie Olberdork and the rest of them spin away the onslaught.
I think a good drinking game will be a shot each time the word racist is used. After all, anyone who doesn’t subscribe to the socialism of Obama must be a klansman.
“a shot each time” LOL
Any idea how smashed you’d be? No seriously, I don’t think half the TP crowd ‘knows’ necessarily ‘what’ precisely it is they’re angry about?
When you’re getting the shaft from all angles, I guess you have to start somewhere? And I don’t know where all the angst comes from either. Were Dem’s thinking in ‘08 that we’d effectively be (1) Party Rule? Certainly sounds that way….
“don’t forget the tea party is removing republicans from primaries as well as threatening democrats. your claim that we are minions of republicans who want to corporatize everything isn’t true, can you support that?”
Time will tell how these “Mavericky” candidates will behave once elected.
As for “more profit = more prosperity” the Fortune 500 have been kicking butt for the past decade, yet the prosperity doesn’t seem to trickle down. Heck, HP cut it employee’s pay across the board while it was making handsome multi-billion dollar profits.
“the movement isn’t trying to move from big govt to big corporations, it is trying to move towards our roots, limited govt and maximized freedom.”
We know that’s what you guys believe, but some of us have our doubts about this actually happening. Our local “Mavericky” GOP congressional candidate (who might upset the Dem incumbent) sounds like a George W Bush retread when he actually gets down to details: tax cuts for the rich, defend free trade, support for the wars, etc.
Yeah…I listened to him yesterday on Meet The Press…He is a mirror image of Bush maybe even more like Cheney…
He has foot in mouth disease, but we’ll likely soon call him “Senator Buck.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1010/43716.html
You’re so under the tea-party spell that you don’t even know you’re under the spell. The tea-party is removing establishment republicans and replacing them with either established minions (Rubio) or puppets (O Donnell). Your tea-party leaders are quietly backed by corporate money. Who do you think is paying for all these expensive TV ads? The unemployed worker with the stars-and-stripes t-shirt who can’t afford even a Don’t-Tread-On-Me flag? The senior citizens riding on Medicare-paid scooters?
And less government gave us less regulations, which gave us the too-big-to-fail monopolies, which got us all into this mess. You really think small business will survive in such an environment?
And all this profit-driven prosperity is NOT going to the minions, can’t you see that?
“You really think small business will survive in such an environment?”
Good question, no seriously. I don’t know. I know it ‘can’ and HAS in Oregon for decades! We have like what, (2) F-500 companies?
Who knows, perhaps in the New Normal a great many ( former ) powerhouse states can look and feel just like Oregon too? But that would require rolling up our sleeves and getting our hands dirty so it’s just easier to plug into a Gov./ Fortune 500 employer.
If the TP is so inconsequential to begin with, why all you ppl trippin’?
less corporate govt = more freedom
less corporate govt = more small buisness
less corporate govt = more opportunity
more profit = more prosperity
But when you’re entire movement is funded by corporate interests, which the tea party is in fact directly funded by corporations, you’re the same vote-against-your-own-economic-interests fools.
These Tea Partiers are factions of the same Republicans who want to corporatize everything.
Written in “Palin Red” lipstick:
GOPOFC&CC = “The Grand Old Pimp of “Fiscal Conservatives” & “Compassionate Conservatives””
The label on the “TrueAnger™” PeeParty tea toadlers dance dress given to them by the ““TruePurity™” repubican establishment” reads:
“Used & Abused Inc.”
(Designed by: “kick’em-to-the-curb” Inc.)
(Imported from Glenbeckinstan)
“… the sizeable swath of voters who sympathize with them want to reduce the massively ballooning national debt, cut runaway federal spending, keep taxes in check, reinvigorate the economy, and block the expansion of the state into citizens’ lives.”
So where was this “sizable swath” in 2004, when Vice President Dick Cheney told then Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill that “Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter”?
Funny they seem to have been sleeping from 2001-2008 and only woke up on January 20, 2009.
Funny they seem to have been sleeping from 2001-2008 and only woke up on January 20, 2009.
Now,…now they’re full of “TrueAnger!™”
“He’s not from Hawaii!” / “He’s not a “TrueEvangelicalChristian™””
Cheney-Shrub Legacy Effect #3: “We left y’all with the worst POS economy in 80 years…see ya!”
+1. The deficit squawkers squawk a little less when I bring this up…
and block the expansion of the state into citizens’ lives.
If this is the Republican party without its nose in reproductive and gay rights, I’m all for it.
Not so fast, the tea party people want what they want, and don’t want to pay for it.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/210904?RS_show_page=0
“~Peter Berkowitz, writing in the Wall Street Journal, sums up the TEA Party.”
I could have described the tea party movement with a bit more brevity. They are anti-progressive.
Got Liberty?
Foreclosure Freeze Could Drag Down Property Values, Housing Chief Warns ~ Fox News
Housing Secretary Shaun Donovan said Sunday that a national freeze on foreclosures would “do far more harm than good,” pushing back against those calling for a blanket moratorium following claims that lenders may have used faulty paperwork to evict homeowners.
Donovan called the alleged corner-cutting “shameful” in a column published Sunday, days after attorneys general in all 50 states opened probes into the matter. He backed banks that have imposed “voluntary moratoria” but stopped short of supporting a broader ban.
“A national, blanket moratorium on all foreclosure sales would do far more harm than good — hurting homeowners and homebuyers alike at a time when foreclosed homes make up 25 percent of home sales,” Donovan wrote in his Huffington Post column.
Donovan explained that a blanket freeze could block first-time homebuyers from entering the market while ensuring that foreclosed homes stay vacant and drag down home prices in surrounding neighborhoods.
“Right now, families who have watched their home values decline over the last few years want nothing more than homebuyers … to buy the vacant homes in their neighborhoods,” he wrote.
So what’s his solution?
In this article (the link below), the author seems to think that the bought-n-paid for congresscritters will make it all go away for the bankers.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/39686897
Nice find ejohn…What I don’t quite understand about this mess is why does the homeowner feel they have any rights at all if they are in default ??
“Foreclosure Freeze Could Drag Down Property Values”
And maybe, given somewhere north of 10 million homes sitting vacant and recent U.S. household formation down by over seventy percent from where it was over the 2002-2007 period, property values will go down no matter what is done with foreclosures from here on out.
“… property values will go down no matter what is done with foreclosures from here on out.”
… and as the property values go down a lot of borrowed money backed by these values will go down with them.
Poooooooof.
Thanks for adding the Combostastic corollary.
Exactly. The PTB aren’t overly concerned that J6pk might get kicked out of their house for not paying the mortgage. But they’re very concerned that THEIR money might disappear as a result. They were quite literally banking on j6pk REFIing and paying off the mortgage early, even though many of them didn’t really realize that was the bet they were making.
Partially at least. Yes, they were counting on them to Refi. No, they were not counting on them to pay it off early.
What they’re supposed to do is refi, get back on their feet, and then take out an even larger loan as soon as possible. Right now the fall out centers around the loans that already happened - but what of the damage caused by the loans that might never be made?
“the loans that might never be made”
haha. The vampire without blood. What to do?
What they’re supposed to do is refi, get back on their feet, and then take out an even larger loan as soon as possible…
…so that the brokers can collect their fee, based on % of the loan amount, up-front of course.
As for actually paying back the actual loan for an actual 30 years according to the amort sched… “uh, what’s that? By then I’ll have made my pile, spent my pile, and been buried in a pile. What do I care?”
No, they were not counting on them to pay it off early.
umm… REFIing IS paying it off early. The earlier loan is Paid Off, just the same as if the house was sold. Now arguably, that’s part of the problem that we had during the bubble. Falling rates led to many cash out REFIs. And even though a cash out REFI can be an indication of a borrower unable to live within their means letting debt spiral out of control, to the original lender it is simply a loan that was paid off early, even if they were the ones giving the FB the new loan.
Yes, but in the collective experience refi activity almost always led to additional loan activity on the part of borrowers during the boom. Also, the fees are not to be discounted here. The banks perfected the art of making FBs pay money to save money. In such a climate any kind of activity, even refis which paid off the original mortgages, was pursued by the banks.
Just talked to another co-worker. He moved here from Texas, had a house built here, and is now trying to sell his smaller old home. He bought the old house over 15 years ago for less than $100K, and it’s well-kept and well-sited near a good elementary school. He spent a lot of vacation time doing regular mantainence and staging. Yet, he can’t seem to sell it and now is considering renting it out even though he doesn’t want to be a landlord.
Why can’t he sell, I asked? Sounds like a great starter for a young family. His answer was that the only people even looking at houses are hunting for investment foreclosures for a moderate flip; it seems they have no interest in normal transactions.
I find it hard to believe him. I guess in parts of Texas, foreclosures must be selling for a song if $100K is too much for a house that isn’t a fixer-upper. Makes me wonder why he can’t (won’t?) drop the price just to get rid of it, rather than resorting to renting. He surely won’t be losing much money on it after 15 years. And doesn’t strike me as the HELOC’ing type.
Perhaps it is only your assumption that he is trying to sell at or below $100K. Maybe he thinks that would be giving it away.
If “all” the prospects are scavenger flippers, who would they be selling to?
This is what I don’t quite get. To me, making a clean break with maybe a small loss seems much more pleasant than being a long-distance landlord. So he’s either more proud than i thought, or he needs the money.
I guess this brand of bottom feeders is working on a logner time scale. In 2-3 years there will be more young families and smart-money will start buying again.
Due to unusual circumstances I was exposed to a TV show yesterday about a guy busting his butt for a couple months to fill his house with newish stuff from Home Depot or such getting it ready to sell. In the next scene, the realator is telling him the house price depends on square footage, as if she didn’t notice the “improvements”, and that he should be ready to bring $5K to the closing. The look on his face was priceless.
“he should be ready to bring $5K to the closing”
She was softening the blow too. By “5K”, she means $15K+.
And yet, the shows on HGTV instructing the viewer that you MUST improve your house’s curb appeal, repaint and recarpet every room, get rid of that hideous old wallpaper etc.etc. in order to sell it just continue to multiply.
Those HGTV shows have nothing to do with selling the house and everything to do with decorating; ie product placement. Does it really matter if the occupants will be the present owners or potential owners? Heck no! The brainless HGTV hosts are going shopping!!!
That said, the fact that staged houses sell faster and at a higher price than unstaged houses never ceases to amaze me! There is a sucker born every minute. You could buy your own paint and carpet for very little money and not have to pay PITI on it for the next 30 years.
It’s hard to come to grips with the reality that the house you have lived in for many years is worth no more than what you paid for it.
Well then he needs to man up and put on his big-boy boxers.
I rent. The “houses” I’ve been living in are worth nothing to me.
It’s that famous old homeowner attitude at work: “I’m not going to GIVE it away!”
Texas is an big state with lots of dieing small towns where houses are less than $100k. In many of them, the school district is the top employer, and teachers don’t want to live right across the street from a school.
Sure it’s a relatively low price for a house, but if there are no jobs, who’s gonna buy it?
As we’ve learned in NY, this can go on for the better part of a century very easily.
Wow! That sounds just like NY. JUST LIKE IT.
And all this time I thought TX was a boom state.
Those jobs that were created are all low pay service jobs and state/county government jobs.
Parts of the major cities in Texas are booming. I was just in Galveston, and two large condo properties that were beachfront and wrecked by the last hurricane were completely disposed of over the week that I was there.
It’s funny to walk past a place on Sunday and say “Some of those ceiling fans and couches still look usable. Wanna scale that fence later and check it out?” and come back next Sunday and find the place gone.
Half of the jobs that were created in the US over the past 12 months were created in Texas.
If there’s anyplace that’s going to boom, it’s Texas.
There’s almost always* a price that it will sell for. But that price may well be less than what he paid for it, and less than the replacement cost. If there is a sufficient supply of foreclosures that are in decent shape (and some of them are), why would somebody pay ~20% more? I’m thinking that this is an indication that those people looking to flip foreclosures are in for a world of hurt when they try to sell. Yes, when foreclosures are a relative rarity, buying ‘em and flipping them can sometimes work, although it’s pretty risky. But when they’re common?
*barring title problems or toxic waste.
* OCTOBER 18, 2010, 5:04 A.M. ET
HK Shares End Down As Financial Firms Fall On US Foreclosure Concerns
HONG KONG (Dow Jones)–Hong Kong shares ended lower Monday, as concerns about a foreclosure crisis hitting U.S. mortgage servicers following the regulator’s examination of foreclosure practices took a toll on Hong Kong-listed banks.
The blue-chip Hang Seng Index fell 288.25 points, or 1.2%, to 23,469.38 after trading between 23,467.45 and 23,716.48 during the session.
…
“Friday, all the bank stocks were down in the U.S. because of the foreclosure issue, and that was the main theme today,” said Jackson Wong, an investment manager at Tanrich Securities. “I don’t think the positive market trend has reversed yet though,” he added.
…
If pension funds have vanished from the stock market in droves, then who is in, most recently pushing it up from 10K to 11K?
The Wall Street Journal
Pension Funds Flee Stocks in Search of Less-Risky Bets
By E.S. BROWNING
After making the same kinds of investment blunders as many individuals, corporate pension funds now are seeking the same remedies: fleeing stocks for the perceived safety of bonds.
A growing number of pension managers are concluding their pursuit of maximum returns was a mistake, interviews with managers and consultants show. Instead, many funds are trying to achieve stable returns that more or less keep pace with the plan’s obligations.
Corporate pension plans loaded up on stocks in the booming 1990s and had almost 70% of their money in them by the mid-2000s, a pattern similar to individuals’. By this July, pension plans as a group had cut their stock exposure to 45%, according to the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College. Many say the trend will continue.
Their caution damages a pillar of stock investing. With individuals also currently reducing their exposure to stocks, the market is left increasingly in the hands of investors such as hedge funds that often trade rapidly, contributing to volatility. The pullback could be one reason the stock market has been choppy this year.
Some of the cutbacks at pension funds are the result of losses during the financial crisis. In a trend that began slowly in the 2000-2002 bear market and gained momentum when stocks took another dive in 2008, corporate pension managers have begun concluding that loading up on stocks in search of high returns was a fool’s errand. Corporate plans saw the value of the stocks they held at the market peak in October 2007 decline by about $1 trillion through early March 2009, according to the Center for Retirement Research.
“This was a slap in the face, definitely,” for the pension world, says Ron Barin, chief investment officer for pension investments at Alcoa Inc. “Risk was never really a big part of the equation, and it really should have been.”
More recently, the May 6 “flash crash,” when the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 700 points in eight minutes before rebounding, further spooked some fund managers, sowing concerns about the role computers and high-frequency trading now play in the stock market.
…
So even pension fund managers, theoretically seasoned professionals, have been scared away from the stock market by the ‘flash crash’ and high-frequency trading. And yet there’s still no real movement to end such market manipulation. That is the product of regulatory and legislative capture.
Oh, but I forgot, corporations are people, and money is speech. (And that is the product of judicial capture. They’ve run the table.)
You know, if money equals speech, then why is it illegal to attempt to bribe a cop when I’m getting a ticket?
I mean, I’m just ‘talking’ to him, right?
He will probably “talk” back.
In less honest countries than ours, the rule is that you ALWAYS bribe cops, because they’re significantly cheaper than judges.
yep…it’s always just the evil corporations.
CalPERS has no political influence whatsoever.
gag me with a spoon.
I think the problems arise when each side requires looking at it in black and white, we’re good/you’re bad. It’s really much more complex w/varying degrees of sin on both sides.
“Their caution damages a pillar of stock investing.”
Bring it on! I want more damage. More damage means lower stock prices.
Don’t buy them when they’re hot, buy them when they’re not.
“… fleeing stocks for the perceived safety of bonds.”
Bonds are paying close to nothing. These pension funds are structured to earn … what? eight percent maybe?. They’re not going to get eight percent from bonds.
But if they are not going to earn what they thought they were going to earn and if they still have to pay out a lot of promised money to pensioners - money that they aren’t earning - then … well then something is going to have to give.
Any ideas as to what this something might be?
“Any ideas as to what this something might be?”
Yes, but I’d rather not go there. Let’s keep the discussion on something pleasant, like home foreclosures.
“… but I’d rather not go there.”
You don’t have to go there, it will come to you. It will be making house calls.
I’m trying to make sure my immunizations are up to date.
Not all the lemmings go off the cliff. The lemmings that don’t go off the cliff get to pick from what the lemmings that do go over the cliff leave behind.
“Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.”
“my immunizations are up to date”
I’ve heard rumor that all the unused toxic H1N1 shots from last years scam are just blended into the current batch. Recycle.
If you think H1N1 was a “scam,” then you should thank the hard-working people at the WHO and CDC, along with local governments in Mexico City.
The World Hysterics Organization was my personal pick. Follow the money.
One reason I want to retire is that I won’t be forced to get anymore shots that I don’t want. I have to sign a waiver to avoid getting a flu shot every fall. Last year I was required to get a swine flu shot - was told I couldn’t see patients without it. They also told me that if I didn’t get the regular flu shot I would be required to wear a mask in the clinic. I agreed to wear the mask. Then they “changed their minds” when I showed up with a mask on and I wasn’t required to wear it after all. LOL. I hate being told what to do if it doesn’t make sense.
Your wallet.
Pension funds are screwed all over. Look at this graph posted at The Economist about the funding - or lack thereof - of the New Jersey fire and police pension fund.
http://media.economist.com/images/images-magazine/2010/10/16/bb/20101016_bbc445.gif
The whisper word on CA state pensions is that they are $500 bn in the hole.
The corporations will shed their pension obligations in bankruptcy. And of course this will make the problem worse because of the pension funds of OTHER companies that had stock in those corporations. As for local governments, it could be that the likely bankruptcy of Harrisburg is just the first in a long line of banckruptcies.
Will “Foreclosure-gate” Cost the Banks Billions?
Posted by Stephen Gandel Monday, October 18, 2010 at 6:00 am
The banks’ tab from the housing bust is set to get a lot bigger.
In the past few weeks, state attorneys general and lawyers representing borrowers in danger of losing their homes have uncovered a number of certainly dubious, potentially fraudulent, practices relating to the way banks have been processing foreclosures. On Sunday HUD Secretary Shawn Donovan told Huffington Post, “The recent revelations about foreclosure processing — that some banks may be repossessing the homes of families improperly — has rightly outraged the American people. The notion that many of the very same institutions that helped cause this housing crisis may well be making it worse is not only frustrating — it’s shameful.”
The revelations, which include lost documents and lying on court records, started to surface in mid-September. But a month after the start of “Foreclosure-gate” (some people are now calling them fraudclosures) and it’s still not clear how bad or how big this scandal really is. But what is clear is that Foreclosure-gate will end up resulting in huge new losses for the banks, potentially tens of billions. Here’s how:
So just how bad is “Foreclosure gate?”
…
Can they really do this?
In Fed Shift, Bernanke Says He Wants More Inflation
Posted by Stephen Gandel Friday, October 15, 2010 at 10:18 am
Bernanke is tilting toward boosting inflation (Jason Reed/REUTERS)
Ever since the 1970s, one of the key jobs of the US Federal Reserve has been to fight inflation. Now, it seems the Fed is embarking on a path to resurrect its old foe.
On Friday morning, at a conference on Fed policy in Boston, Fed chairman Ben Bernanke made the case that the US central bank needs to do more to boost the economy. For Fed watchers this was expected. Unemployment remains high and the US recovery seems to be slowing. Bernanke’s plan is to use central bank funds to buy up long-term Treasuries and other bonds in an effort to drive interest rates down, and lower borrowing costs for consumers and companies. And Bernanke is indicating, as expected, that the Fed will most likely act on that plan when it meets again in early November.
The real surprise in Friday’s speech was how much the Fed chairman talked about inflation, and why it may be too low. No one likes rising prices. But he Fed’s move to boost inflation may make a lot of sense right now.
…
No one likes rising prices. But he Fed’s move to boost inflation may make a lot of sense right now.
it makes no sense. the only thing we get from inflation is poorer..
I had thought foreclosures were a result of people who couldn’t pay their mortgages giving their homes back to the bank, but now I learn from this used home seller that it is about whether people are “watching” and “grabbing deals.” I stand corrected.
business
Areas that avoided foreclosure mess earlier may be taking hit now
By Margaret Jackson
The Denver Post
Posted: 10/17/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT
Homes in metro Denver neighborhoods that previously appeared insulated from the housing crisis are seeing a decline in prices as foreclosures and short sales tick up. Meanwhile, those communities that were hit hardest are showing signs of improvement.
While foreclosures and short sales — known collectively as “distressed sales” — still make up a larger share of the market in lower-priced neighborhoods, the slight decline in those sales is expected to help prices there stabilize.
“If you’re in a neighborhood where the number of distressed sales is increasing, it’s going to push prices down,” said Lon Welsh, managing broker of Your Castle Real Estate. “If you’re in a neighborhood where the number of distressed sales is declining, you should see values improving.”
An analysis of Metrolist data by Your Castle showed that homes priced at $461,000 or more saw the distressed sales increase from 12 percent of the total volume in the first quarter of 2008 to 17 percent in the second quarter of 2010.
Meanwhile, 69 percent of homes sold in the $95,000-$149,000 price range during the second quarter of this year were distressed, down from 84 percent of the total in the first quarter of 2008.
Overall, sales of distressed homes accounted for 42 percent of the market from January through June this year, down from 49 percent during the same period a year ago.
The movement of distressed sales into the higher-end market is putting noticeable pressure on prices in the luxury market.
Luxury real estate specialist Edie Marks has dropped the price on several homes, including the one at 11 Blackmer Road in Cherry Hills Village. The 14,657-square-foot home started at nearly $8 million. She recently put it under contract for just over $2 million.
Marks predicts that the deals people are finding as a result of short sales ultimately will result in fewer foreclosures in the upper-end market.
“People are watching,” she said. “They know what the deals are, and they’re starting to grab them. That’s what’s going to prevent us from having more foreclosures.”
…
Abandoned luxury homes certainly do serve to blight the rest of the neighborhood!
Paradise Valley targets owners of abandoned luxury homes
by Diana Balazs - Oct. 7, 2010 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic
The struggling real-estate market is not only hurting Paradise Valley’s budget, it’s threatening to tarnish the town’s image as one of the toniest places to live in Arizona.
In May, officials identified 19 homes that were violating town property codes. They included abandoned or foreclosed residences with weeds in the yards and green swimming pools, and existing and new homes with unfinished construction and expired building permits.
The effort by the town to take action against property-code violators comes as the median home price in Paradise Valley’s ZIP code of 85253 has dropped 19 percent since 2009 to $1.68 million. Earlier this month, the town ranked 78th on a Forbes magazine list of America’s most expensive ZIP codes. Two years ago, 85253 was No. 34; last year it was No. 60.
The town has an expected $2.5 million budget shortfall, and with construction sales-tax revenue down, officials are looking for ways to raise revenue. Paradise Valley has 283 homes listed for sale at more than $1 million, and 34 of them are distressed properties such as pre-foreclosures and short sales, real-estate agents say.
Eva Cutro, Paradise Valley’s planning and building director, said officials were surprised to see the problem properties scattered throughout the town.
“We thought maybe there was one section of the town that would be hit hard, but it was all over,” she said. “A lot of it was construction that was halted, but some of it is just existing homes that have been left to deteriorate.”
…
So they hit them with a fine.
The fine becomes a lien when it’s not paid.
The lien will only hurt the chances of selling the property, so it will languish - and rot away - for a longer period of time.
The struggling real-estate market is not only hurting Paradise Valley’s budget, it’s threatening to tarnish the town’s image as one of the toniest places to live in Arizona.
Paradise Village
Qualified? Home lenders saying not so fast
Credit grinds to halt as well-heeled borrowers have to slog through process ~ Reuters
“What I had thought would be a fairly straightforward loan application turned into the Inquisition,” says Ginny Shipe.
NEW YORK — When Ginny Shipe decided to buy a new home earlier this year, she was calmly confident her experience as an industry insider, her stellar credit rating and debt-free status would make it a snap.
She could not have been more wrong. The process was as arduous as it was protracted. Eventually, Shipe had to move out of her old home and couch surf with friends while she waited, and waited, for approval.
“What I had thought would be a fairly straightforward loan application turned into the Inquisition,” she said in her office in downtown Chicago.
Two years after the depths of the financial crisis, the pendulum is still swinging away from the days of supereasy credit, when bankers required almost no proof that a customer would be able to repay a loan. Before the housing market crashed, even industry insiders ridiculed certain popular mortgages as “NINJas” — “no income, no job loans.”
Banks are a lot pickier today. To protect themselves from defaults, they have sharply increased underwriting requirements — and paperwork — needed to get a loan. They’ve adopted less agreeable views on credit cards and other forms of revolving debt, investor properties and income history.
There must be something missing from Ms. Shipe’s package, like, income history? I wonder if, as an “industry insider” she has any investor properties?
“There must be something missing from Ms. Shipe’s package”
Sounds like she is missing a large down payment.
I think it’s lender dependent too. I watched a young friend apply simultaneously to Wells Fargo and BofA last spring - BofA had “preapproved” him. Wells Fargo funded the loan 20 days after application; BofA never came through. The BofA loan officer said he was frustrated, but never told him why he didn’t get the house loan.
Double-edged sword of housing aid
Are home retention programs worth the small payback?
By Steve Bergsman
October 14, 2010
You can hear the drums beating in the distance on President Obama’s network of initiatives to get the housing market stabilized.
While the Home Affordable Modification Program, Home Affordable Foreclosure Alternatives Program and all the other federal initiatives were needed back in 2008 and 2009 to prop up a decimated housing market, it might be time to bring all these layers of complexity to a conclusion.
It’s not only that HAMP and all its brethren have been expensive, but it’s been apparent for a long time now that these programs are not really working out very well. Despite best intentions, as of August, fewer than 500,000 borrowers have successfully made it through the HAMP trial phase and the number of people falling out of the program is increasing.
One can argue that all of these programs aimed at keeping people in their homes were flawed in design, and that is the administration’s fault; or that the programs were fairly basic in concept but the lenders in an extremely passive-aggressive manner simply couldn’t — or wouldn’t!! — put these initiatives into gear.
But that doesn’t get to the heart of the matter, which is: Four years into the real estate downturn and two years into home retention efforts, it might be time let market forces take over again.
…
In The Dallas Area, High-End Homes Are Experiencing The Highest Growth In Foreclosures
Published on: Thursday, September 30, 2010
Foreclosures of million dollar luxury homes in the Dallas area had the highest rate of increase over the past year. The second highest rate of increase was for homes that are less than $100,000, while foreclosures of mid-priced homes actually declined. See the following article from HousingWire for more on this.
Affordable housing valued at $200,000 or less accounted for 80% of the foreclosure auction postings in Dallas-Fort Worth so far this year, but luxury homes also saw one of the biggest percentage gain in postings over the past year, according to a new housing study.
…
HBB predicted this. Why would you continue to pay a jumbo loan when the house is less than jumbo priced? These people can afford to rent a nice place and wait until their credit improves.
Meh, I suspect that the actual rate of foreclosure is pretty low. But the “biggest percentage gain,” simply means that the wealthy took longer to burn through their reserves than the poorer folkes did.
Why does the MSM persistently equate improved affordability with “bad” and declining affordability with “good”? To my jaundiced eyes, declining home prices during a period when many folks are out of work and few are qualified to buy is a sign that markets continue performing well, despite the many efforts to shackle and chain them.
High-priced neighborhoods now seeing declines
by J. Craig Anderson - Oct. 17, 2010 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic
Geography and price have been key factors in how the market’s epic downturn has played out across metro Phoenix.
Ever since home values peaked in 2005 and 2006, the timing and pace of price readjustments have been specific to each community.
The latest Valley Home Values data, provided by Phoenix-based Information Market, tells the story of how those price changes continued to evolve through the first eight months of the year.
The data reveal pockets of relatively steep price declines in more expensive neighborhoods, bolstering analysts’ suspicions that higher-priced homes would follow the downward trajectory seen in lower-priced communities in 2008 and 2009.
For example, the median home price fell about 14 percent in Paradise Valley - the Phoenix area’s most expensive residential community - from Jan. 1 to Aug. 31. It was the second-biggest decline among cities and towns.
The most dramatic median-price drop for a community during the period measured was in Waddell, an upscale West Valley community along the eastern border of White Tank Mountain Regional Park. Home prices there fell about 21 percent.
Even Tempe, which had experienced relatively mild price decreases during the slump’s first two years, has been among the five worst-performing markets this year, with the median sale price falling more than 9 percent.
…
Let’s wager Mr. Bear:
Hwy’s x1 Oktoberfest beer wager: “There are more $1+ million dollar homes, than there are buyers willing to pay $1+ millions for a home.”
Double-down side wager: “…near the coast 0-8 miles or inland anywhere from 9 -1250 miles”
“Why does the MSM persistently equate improved affordability with “bad” and declining affordability with “good”?”
I think we already established why. The banksters want us to pay our entire incomes to them in the form on interest payments. You can’t do that if your house is affordable.
I always thought “stand-up guy” referred to comedians, but I learn from this article that it can also apply to star athletes in foreclosure on houses they can afford.
Ex-Kings star Martin gets default notice on Rocklin home
Share
By Phillip Reese
preese@sacbee.com
Published: Friday, Oct. 15, 2010 - 12:00 am | Page 1B
Last Modified: Saturday, Oct. 16, 2010 - 11:53 am
The housing bust has claimed another King.
A bank has issued a notice of default to former Kings basketball star Kevin Martin – the first step in foreclosing on his million-dollar Rocklin home. The notice comes just a few months after former Kings basketball star Ron Artest finalized a short sale on his Loomis property.
Martin’s attorney, Michael Hackard, said a foreclosure probably won’t happen. Like a lot of homeowners, Hackard said, Martin has been tangling with his bank as he pursues a short sale on the home.
“He always wants to do the right thing,” Hackard said. “He’s a stand-up guy.”
…
Pffffft, pro athletes can’t handle money even in the best of times.
He paid 1.9 million in 2007. At the time he was about 21 years old. He had bad advice. I think I would walk away to save a million. He doesn’t need the credit because he has millions. Hopefully he has a better advisor now.
I wonder if the NBA does a credit-check to determine if its employees are qualified…
My sister lives in Rocklin. It’s not a ritzy place. A $1.9 million place there must be the most expensive place in town.
“He doesn’t need the credit because he has millions.”
Under what conditions? Certainly not in the case of unsecured loans. So long as the collateral can be collected and sold for more than the amount loaned to him, I guess there is no problem.
market pulse
Industrial production falls in September, marking its first drop after six months of gains
Oct. 18, 2010, 9:15 a.m. EDT
Industrial production drops 0.2% in September
By Steve Goldstein
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - Industrial production slipped in September, the first drop after six months of gains, according to data released by the Federal Reserve on Monday. Production slipped 0.2% compared to August, though it’s up 5.4% from the prior-year September. Economists polled by MarketWatch expected a 0.2% monthly increase.
…
This is cool.
Is the Market Ready to Roll Over? These Signs Say Yes
By CHARLES HUGH SMITH Posted 11:30 AM 10/18/10
The U.S. stock market has been on a tear since Sept. 1, but technical caution flags are now appearing in the charts. They’re signaling that the market may be about to roll over.
For a technical snapshot, let’s turn to one of the more reliable indicators, the VIX Volatility Index, and then examine charts of three key indexes: the broad-based S&P 500 (SPX), the big-tech-dominated Nasdaq 100 ($NDX) and a widely known exchange-traded fund, Financial Select Sector SPDR Fund ETF (XLF).
The VIX operates as one end of a see-saw, with equities on the other end. When stocks are rising to new highs, the VIX is plumbing the depth; when stock are cratering, the VIX shoots up.
This is clearly visible in the chart: The VIX spiked to 80+ during the global financial meltdown of late 2008 and then fell to lows around 15 at the market’s high point in late April, 2010.
…
The “Golden Cross” says the opposite. S&P 500’s 50-day moving average recently “crossed” above the 200-day moving average.
Investopedia explains Golden Cross:
“As long-term indicators carry more weight, the Golden Cross indicates a bull market on the horizon and is reinforced by high trading volumes. Additionally, the long-term moving average becomes the new support level in the rising market.
“Technicians might see this cross as a sign that the market has turned in favor of the stock.”
Will we see Dow 12,000 by YE10 as Eddie predicted?
“Will we see Dow 12,000 by YE10 as Eddie predicted?”
Given the realities of incipient QE2, ever-high volatility, and the market’s propensity to rally on bad news, I frankly see no reason it won’t go to 12K by year end.
Hmmmm…. now that all of you are convinced Dow 12K is a reality, I may have to re-evaluate. My contrarian indicator is basically do whatever the HBB majority opinion says to do.
Please increase the frequency of your posts.
Like I’ve said before in jest, Yellowstone could erupt or an asteroid could hit the earth and the stockmarket would find a silver lining to rally after.
Stop watching that pot, I want my mac-n-cheese darnit!
These people never learn, but I guess I will nonetheless try again:
IF YOU CAN’T FIND A BUYER, REDUCE YOUR ASKING PRICE AND TRY AGAIN.
There is only one reason people can’t sell their homes, not eleven, and that one reason is that the price is above what the market will bear. Any other purported reason is a red herring.
The Eleven Reasons People Can’t Sell Their Homes
Posted: October 15, 2010 at 3:48 pm
The environment for home sales becomes more difficult with each passing month. Some estimates put 11 million mortgages, about 20% of the US total, underwater, meaning that homeowners owe their banks more than the underlying properties are worth. Home repossessions reached more than 100,000 for the first time in September. Rising foreclosures rates continue to further depress housing prices.
The federal government let its tax benefit for homeowners expire in April and has not renewed it since them. The program did boost sales earlier this year. Shoppers must now face a market without the credit in which many home prices continue to fall.
The clamor over flawed foreclosure paperwork and robo-signers could further chill the housing market. People who might buy have bought a home in foreclosure will now worry about obtaining proper documentation and effective transfer of title.
24/7 Wall St. talked spoke with experts at real estate research firms, Zillow.com and RealtyTrac to find the best way to sell a home. We also interviewed management from the National Association of Realtors, a number of real estate brokers, banks managers and elected officials in affluent communities. What emerged from these conversations and our research is the following: successful home sellers often do the same small number of things correctly. Often, these tactics are often the difference between finding a buyer and not.
…
“Often, these tactics are often the…”
The guy who wrote this (not PB) must work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
LOL, still, I’ve spent a lot of time agonizing over this. Most of us were brought up to believe “Price Cures All”. It’s just part of who we are, what we believe.
But when I gaze out at the wasteland, I’m starting to wonder if there’s ANY price that can cure this glut? Right now I’m thinking “second home” etc. like I’m thinking root canal?
colonoscopy.
Lunch with a realtor?
“I’m starting to wonder if there’s ANY price that can cure this glut?”
Oh yes there is — it’s called ‘fair market value’ and the PTB don’t want the markets to go there, out of fear the banking system will collapse.
Professor Bear,
Probably. The PTB gets what the PTB wants! My point though is that right now, it doesn’t -matter- what they want.
Cocktail chatter is infinitely more about how to get ‘rid’ of the RE exposure they already… have! Least at the parties ‘I’ go to? Any talk of bottom feeding/taking the plunge is met w/ rolled eyes.
I myself often redundantly say the same thing twice.
Maybe he lives in the Sahara Desert.
Or in the La Brea Tar Pit.
And likes his roast beef sandwich with au jus.
And his apple pie a la mode with ice cream.
It would seam times have come full circle.
“Our present condition is, Legislation without law; wisdom without a plan; a constitution without a name;”
Thomas Paine 1776
Analysis: Foreclosure logjam hits housing, broader economy
Reuters | 10/18/2010 | Corbett B. Daly and Helen Chernikoff
The fragile U.S. economy will probably sustain another blow as a result of the latest housing market crisis.
Amid allegations of wrongful evictions, lenders such as Ally Financial’s GMAC, JPMorgan Chase & Co and Bank of America Corp have halted at least some of their foreclosures in process, creating a bottleneck that has the potential to restrain both bank lending and consumer spending.
The U.S. recession came to an official end in June of 2009, but it has yet to sustain a meaningful recovery, as unemployment persists above 9.5 percent.
“This creates a headwind for a more substantive recovery in housing and the economy as a whole,” said economist Diane Swonk of Mesirow Financial of the slowing foreclosure pipeline.
Housing seems to be ceding the once-crucial role it played in the U.S. economy.
In the second quarter of 2010, it accounted for 15.3 percent of the country’s gross domestic product, down from 18.5 percent at its peak in 2005, according to the National Association of Home Builders.
While the sector could once be counted on to lead the nation out of recessions, that too has changed, said Karl Case, co-creator of the Case-Shiller home price index.
And now all 50 U.S. states have started joint investigation of the mortgage industry
The result of all the halted foreclosures, both explicit and unofficial, is a de facto national moratorium, said Guy Cecala, publisher of Inside Mortgage Finance, an industry newsletter.
“We have the traditional holiday foreclosure moratorium coming up so if this just drags on for another month or so, it will be January” before bank repossessions start happening again, Cecala said.
market pulse
Oct. 18, 2010, 9:57 a.m. EDT
Oct. NAHB index climbs 3 points to 16
By Steve Goldstein
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - Builder confidence rose for the first time in October in five months, according to a report released Monday that nonetheless showed conditions at a weak level. The National Association of Home Builders/Wells Fargo housing market index rose 3 points to 16 in October to bring the gauge to the same level as June. Economists polled by MarketWatch expected the gauge to remain stuck at 13. All three of the index’s components — current sales conditions, sales expectations and traffic of prospective buyers — rose. The report measures confidence in the market for newly built, single-family homes, and any number over 50 indicates that more builders view conditions as good than poor. The housing market index hasn’t been above 50 since April 2006.
288 new homes were sold in the 3rd quarter in sacramento county.Business is booming.
It doesn’t take much to spark a Wall Street rally these days. How a diffusion index level of 16 qualifies as “optimism” when any level below 50 ordinarily suggests pessimism is a mystery which I shall have to ponder.
Stocks build some steam
FINANCIALS
U.S. equities get a little lift from a report showing optimism in the home-builder sector.
I suppose that it was “better than expected”
Saturday the inflation deflation argument hinged on the belief that the system will do what will benefit the rich. Both sides used this to argue inflation vs deflation. The thesis is only partially correct. The system will do what is in the best interests of the banking elite and well connected. It seems to me that over the last year banks have been selling mbs to FED and GSE’s and hording treasuries and cash. This would suggest that deflation is the goal and consolidation of power.
Jefferson didn’t say the rich would own everything via a series of inflation and deflationary cycles he said banks and bankers would.
At the end of this many who considered themselves elite and well connected will find that they too were thrown to the wolves.
The bigger the ship, the smaller the lifeboats?
“At the end of this many who considered themselves elite and well connected will find that they too were thrown to the wolves.”
Correct. Just ask a bunch of former car dealership owners who had their gold mines taken away from them by GM or Chrysler. And in some cases by Mr Market himself. We’ve had two local dealers, one who had a 6 brand franchise, go belly up in the past year. I’m sure those guys thought they were members of the wealthy elite when in reality, by Davos standards, they were mere minnows and not sharks.
he foreclosure crisis that seems on the brink of spinning out of control may be the decisive nudge that pushes the U.S. into a double-dip recession. Banks that have only just begun to recover from the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression are about to find themselves in straitjackets.
As was the case during the aftermath to Hurricane Katrina, Washington seems not up to the task. Instead of facing the problem head-on, President Barack Obama has mostly deferred to state attorneys general. This is a terrible time for Obama to finally discover the virtue of federal restraint.
Delayed foreclosures and litigation regarding how they are carried out might cost U.S. lenders $10 billion, according to one new estimate. Questions could be raised about any foreclosed property, and the only thing between banks and a humungous legal fiasco is the possibility that trial lawyers and state attorneys general will show restraint. Ask tobacco companies how that might work out. Attorneys general are opening widespread investigations, and trial lawyers might tie banks in knots, holding out for fat class-action settlements.
While lines are forming to take a pound of flesh from the banks, their real-estate activities are all but frozen. It will be difficult for lenders to make decisions about future loans with their capital positions so fundamentally in question.
The next pound of flesh????????????? Yes the poor banks. How about the 20# of flesh they’ve taken from the US.
I don’t see any articles on housing values going up or down in the local media in Greenville or Columbia, SC. They have not done one story about the robo-signers even though one law firm has done 80% of the foreclosures in SC.
There has never been an article on the bank problems in SC even though the financials are on the FDIC website. I have tried and tried to get the papers to do some storied but not interest whatever.
My gut feeling is that they can only do crimes now as then they get a police report and the reports does nothing except perhaps run a spell check. The press has played a big role in this housing bubble and now the resultant foreclosure fraud. That role has been to print nothing.
Local media is for the truly under-informed and willfully ignorant. Internet or be ignorant.
“My gut feeling is that they can only do crimes now as then they get a police report and the reports does nothing except perhaps run a spell check.”
Wrecks in which no one is hurt are now making the front page of our local rag. No mention of housing prices going down OR up. Of course, the entire county’s economy where I live is practically based on the second home market. That means the rags up here are about 90% dependent on their RE ads. Believe it or not, I get most of the county’s honest housing statistics from a realtor friend of mine who sends out a fairly regular update to people on her mailing list.
Ins. Guy, The State paper is just about completely useless. They don’t have any true reporters or journalists. They are note takers, that print mainly ‘feel good’ stories, or stories about evil payday lenders robbing poor folks. That and gamecock football front page damn near everyday.
We’ll never ever get any in depth investigations into to the RE, bank, mortgage &foreclosure boondoggle. Not by our fish-wrap, sad but true.
The Denver Post should be renamed The Broncos Report, cuz it’s all Broncos all the time, even when they stink to high heaven. And when its not the Broncos they are fretting over whether Carmelo Anthony is going to leave the Nuggets.
Meanwhile median household income in Colorado had dropped 10% during the past 10 years, and all that story got was a single column article that was buried in the business section.
But why should we worry about things that matter> Tim Tebow is a Bronco! Yeehaw!
Why do people go into journalism then? There is no reporting just rehashing of accident reports or plicy reports. Just kinda sad. I guess we need to get a South Carolina Blog going.
Unfortunately many papers mandate multiple stories by any one journalist every day. Add to that weekend stories, going to meetings, etc…and very little “real” reporting gets done. Only the very large papers can afford to keep on writers who can take days, weeks or even months to work on a story. For the thousands of other papers spread across the country, not so much.
Well the other alternative is a daily dose of housing and real estate porn, like we have here in northern CA.
SFGate, San Francisco’s online edition of our city rag SF Chronicle, runs a story DAILY on some million dollar home and it’s fabulousness.
Pshaw.
Bonds: the next big short
“The bond market is the biggest bubble in financial markets worldwide, in our opinion. Investors around the world are worried about the state of financial markets and therefore believe that government bonds represent a safe haven. These investors will receive the most enormous shock on two accounts. Firstly, no government will be able to repay the debts outstanding. So there will either be government defaults, moratoria, or money printing that totally destroys the value of the bonds. Secondly, interest rates are likely to go up significantly to at least 10–15%, totally destroying the value of the bonds.”
http://tinyurl.com/2as2tvj
Noticed silver bids were pulled in Asian trading resulting in a 50 cent drop. This tiny dip was bought with a vengeance. The Asians are buying metals hand over fist.
Americans…what is silver?
Vengeful buying?
Converting evermore worth less US IOU’s into silver, gold, base metals with extreme prejudice.
Keep a few of those greenbacks just for insurance will you lint? They might become collector’s items.
I don’t know if Lint is right or wrong, but if investing in cash was the smartest move, he would be out of a job.
“The Asians are buying metals hand over fist.”
It just seems like there’s a huge set up in the works here. Does anyone else get the feeling, that maybe a few too many people are letting the future of Uncle Buck get a little too predictable?
You think there is a pool shark in the game aiming to turn some pockets inside out?
Nah, I just can’t help but wonder who is on the other side of all these trades - who would get hurt and who would get off the hook?
That, and I still think our boyz are craftier than their boyz.
The dollar has near 100% of its buying power since 1913. There is your set up.
Another perspective: the international bankers that own the private federal reserve have confiscated near 100% of the buying power of the buck. Surely we can be marks and know it? If so then protect yourself and exchange debt notes for precious metals on the big violent sell offs.
This is such nonsense. The dollar has not lost its value in relative terms.
If I have $1 in 1913 and it costs $1 to buy X I am no worse off if in 2010 I have $100 and it costs $100 to buy X.
Do you honestly believe that the purchasing power of Americans with dollars was better in 1913 than today? It’s ludicrous. You sound ridiculous with these Ron Paul talking points.
My understanding is that the purchasing power (real value) of gold has held fairly steady through the years. Let’s compare prices in 1913 versus now:
Dollar price of 1 oz of gold:
1913 $18.92
2010 $1,373
Percentage change in value of dollar in terms of gold:
(18.92/1373-1)*100 = -98.6%
Eddie is correct: The dollar has not lost 100% of its purchasing power since 1913.
Reference:
HISTORICAL GOLD PRICES- 1833 to Present
Paging packman: Wanna graph some gold prices? (From the above reference, except the 2009-2010 data points are the closing prices on October 19 of the respective years; feel free to use better data if you have it!)
1959 35.1
1960 35.27
1961 35.25
1962 35.23
1963 35.09
1964 35.1
1965 35.12
1966 35.13
1967 34.95
1968 39.31
1969 41.28
1970 36.02
1971 40.62
1972 58.42
1973 97.39
1974 154
1975 160.86
1976 124.74
1977 147.84
1978 193.4
1979 306
1980 615
1981 460
1982 376
1983 424
1984 361
1985 317
1986 368
1987 447
1988 437
1989 381
1990 383.51
1991 362.11
1992 343.82
1993 359.77
1994 384
1995 383.79
1996 387.81
1997 331.02
1998 294.24
1999 278.98
2000 279.11
2001 271.04
2002 309.73
2003 363.38
2004 409.72
2005 444.74
2006 603.46
2007 695.39
2008 871.96
2009 1075
2010 1375
Even better data: Goes all the way back, and includes gold price in logs. The graph in logs suggests a most interesting history of monetary adjustment, and suggests we are currently in the middle of a permanent devaluation of the dollar.
Year ln(Price) Price ($)
1833-49* 2.940747965 18.93
1850 2.940747965 18.93
1851 2.940747965 18.93
1852 2.940747965 18.93
1853 2.940747965 18.93
1854 2.940747965 18.93
1855 2.940747965 18.93
1856 2.940747965 18.93
1857 2.940747965 18.93
1858 2.940747965 18.93
1859 2.940747965 18.93
1860 2.940747965 18.93
1861 2.940747965 18.93
1862 2.940747965 18.93
1863 2.940747965 18.93
1864 2.940747965 18.93
1865 2.940747965 18.93
1866 2.940747965 18.93
1867 2.940747965 18.93
1868 2.940747965 18.93
1869 2.940747965 18.93
1870 2.940747965 18.93
1871 2.940747965 18.93
1872 2.941276088 18.94
1873 2.941276088 18.94
1874 2.941276088 18.94
1875 2.941276088 18.94
1876 2.941276088 18.94
1877 2.941276088 18.94
1878 2.941276088 18.94
1879 2.941276088 18.94
1880 2.941276088 18.94
1881 2.941276088 18.94
1882 2.941276088 18.94
1883 2.941276088 18.94
1884 2.941276088 18.94
1885 2.941276088 18.94
1886 2.941276088 18.94
1887 2.941276088 18.94
1888 2.941276088 18.94
1889 2.940747965 18.93
1890 2.941276088 18.94
1891 2.942331497 18.96
1892 2.942331497 18.96
1893 2.942331497 18.96
1894 2.941276088 18.94
1895 2.940747965 18.93
1896 2.943385793 18.98
1897 2.943385793 18.98
1898 2.943385793 18.98
1899 2.941276088 18.94
1900 2.942331497 18.96
1901 2.943385793 18.98
1902 2.942858784 18.97
1903 2.941803932 18.95
1904 2.942331497 18.96
1905 2.940219564 18.92
1906 2.939161922 18.9
1907 2.941276088 18.94
1908 2.941803932 18.95
1909 2.942331497 18.96
1910 2.940219564 18.92
1911 2.940219564 18.92
1912 2.940747965 18.93
1913 2.940219564 18.92
1914 2.943912525 18.99
1915 2.943912525 18.99
1916 2.943912525 18.99
1917 2.943912525 18.99
1918 2.943912525 18.99
1919 2.993229143 19.95
1920 3.02916705 20.68
1921 3.02431973 20.58
1922 3.028199464 20.66
1923 3.059645599 21.32
1924 3.029650492 20.69
1925 3.027230941 20.64
1926 3.026746327 20.63
1927 3.027230941 20.64
1928 3.028199464 20.66
1929 3.026746327 20.63
1930 3.027715319 20.65
1931 2.836736542 17.06
1932 3.029650492 20.69
1933 3.270708974 26.33
1934 3.546451461 34.69
1935 3.550766152 34.84
1936 3.551626861 34.87
1937 3.549329989 34.79
1938 3.551053137 34.85
1939 3.538637791 34.42
1940 3.521938999 33.85
1941 3.521938999 33.85
1942 3.521938999 33.85
1943 3.521938999 33.85
1944 3.521938999 33.85
1945 3.54702783 34.71
1946 3.54702783 34.71
1947 3.54702783 34.71
1948 3.54702783 34.71
1949 3.456001174 31.69
1950 3.54731589 34.72
1951 3.54731589 34.72
1952 3.543853682 34.6
1953 3.550766152 34.84
1954 3.556490266 35.04
1955 3.556204837 35.03
1956 3.555062306 34.99
1957 3.553918469 34.95
1958 3.55820113 35.1
1959 3.55820113 35.1
1960 3.563032744 35.27
1961 3.562465529 35.25
1962 3.561897992 35.23
1963 3.55791619 35.09
1964 3.55820113 35.1
1965 3.558770769 35.12
1966 3.559055466 35.13
1967 3.553918469 34.95
1968 3.671478939 39.31
1969 3.720378121 41.28
1970 3.58407434 36.02
1971 3.704260556 40.62
1972 4.067658297 58.42
1973 4.578723536 97.39
1974 5.036952602 154
1975 5.080534421 160.86
1976 4.826231571 124.74
1977 4.996130608 147.84
1978 5.264760583 193.4
1979 5.723585102 306
1980 6.421622268 615
1981 6.131226489 460
1982 5.929589143 376
1983 6.049733455 424
1984 5.888877958 361
1985 5.758901774 317
1986 5.908082938 368
1987 6.102558595 447
1988 6.079933195 437
1989 5.942799375 381
1990 5.949365696 383.51
1991 5.891948033 362.11
1992 5.840118265 343.82
1993 5.885464938 359.77
1994 5.950642553 384
1995 5.950095528 383.79
1996 5.960515529 387.81
1997 5.802178797 331.02
1998 5.684395761 294.24
1999 5.631140095 278.98
2000 5.631605969 279.11
2001 5.602266411 271.04
2002 5.73570095 309.73
2003 5.895449119 363.38
2004 6.015474 409.72
2005 6.097489842 444.74
2006 6.402679758 603.46
2007 6.544472839 695.39
2008 6.770743551 871.96
2009 6.980075941 1075
2010 7.22620901 1375
1999-2010 = “Up up and away” for gold prices.
Good luck selling $1400 gold to broke people.
Victims of robo-signing scandal won’t get their homes back
cnnmoney
Is this the break that millions of people have been hoping for?
Evidence continues to mount that major banks flouted their own foreclosure procedures — and possibly the law — when repossessing homes from owners who fell behind on payments.
And that begs the question: Can owners who were wrongfully evicted take their home back? What if a new owner has already bought the place and moved in?
That’s the messy scenario that lawyers, banks and hordes of ex-homeowners are facing, after revelations that loan servicer employees might have signed off on documents without a proper review, a process dubbed “robo-signing.”
Experts say that very few homeowners will ever get their houses back. The possible exception: The handful of people who were wrongfully swept up by the mortgage tsunami, despite the fact that they were current on their payments.
But getting a judge to unwind a foreclosure is tough.
“The law imposes a very heavy burden on those seeking to attack final court judgments,” says Robert Lawless, a professor at the University of Illinois College of Law.
If a court does rule a foreclosure invalid, either because the lender didn’t have the paperwork in order or because the mortgage was not actually in default, a home’s title will revert to the original owner, even if the property has since been purchased by a third party.
So where does that leave the original homeowners? It’s difficult to say, because this is truly uncharted territory, and because foreclosures are subject to state laws, which vary widely.
But one thing is clear: If the original homeowner doesn’t have the cash to catch up on the mortgage, the lender will restart the foreclosure process and, with the paperwork in order this time, repossess the house.
“The bottom line is that for the vast majority of these cases it’s just going to delay the inevitable,” said George Craft, a Texas based real estate attorney.
says Robert Lawless, a professor at the University of Illinois College of Law.
Only on HBB…
Another moron who doesn’t know what “begs the question” means.
Thanks for bringing this up, Montana. The phrase “begs the question” is never used correctly anymore.
http://begthequestion.info/
If a court does rule a foreclosure invalid, either because the lender didn’t have the paperwork in order or because the mortgage was not actually in default, a home’s title will revert to the original owner, even if the property has since been purchased by a third party.
So why would ANYONE buy a foreclosured property? The risk is high you could lose your ALL your money.
Hilton workers in Chicago start 3-day strike
CHICAGO(AP) – Hundreds of Hilton Chicago Hotel workers started a three-day strike Saturday that union officials say is in protest of the hotel chain’s efforts to “lock workers into cheap recession contracts.”
Unite Here Local 1 spokeswoman Annemarie Strassel told The Associated Press workers began striking in Chicago early Saturday and won’t return to their jobs until early Tuesday. The union represents about 600 workers at the Hilton Chicago downtown.
Strassel said the employees have joined striking workers in San Francisco, who went out Wednesday, and in Honolulu, who went out Thursday. The Chicago workers include housekeepers, dishwashers, cooks, bell staff and food servers.
“Hilton wants to lock workers into cheap recession contracts even as the hotels rebound,” she said early Sunday in a phone interview. “Workers simply want a share in the recovery.”
The AP could not immediately reach hotel officials. But Hilton Chicago told the Chicago Tribune that the hotel is “operating as normal.”
France Asks Airlines to Cut Flights Ahead of Strikes
Well, Viva le France! The French have brought their nation to a standstill over the government wanting to change the the retirement age by a few years. The French are angry and justly so because the government made a promise to them, the French people worked their lives towards that promise and now the French Government, as wrecked by their private central bank as the rest of the world, wants to reneg on the deal! The French people are right and the government is wrong.
Meanwhile here in America, it is becoming apparent that the entire financial system from Wall Street on down is corrupt and crooked, gorged on the wealth from inflated real-estate prices and fraudulent mortgage-backed securities, aided by the US Government which repealed Glass-Steagal to turn the nation’s economy into a giant casino, then dangled an $8000 tax credit in front of new homeowners to lure in the borderline mortgages Wall Street and DC are trying to dump the blame on today. And Americans are doing …. nothing.
France is making America look like a bunch of pansies.
-mike rivero
whatreallyhappened dot com
Meanwhile here in America, it is becoming apparent that the entire financial system from Wall Street on down is corrupt and crooked, gorged on the wealth from inflated real-estate prices and fraudulent mortgage-backed securities, aided by the US Government which repealed Glass-Steagal to turn the nation’s economy into a giant casino, then dangled an $8000 tax credit in front of new homeowners to lure in the borderline mortgages Wall Street and DC are trying to dump the blame on today.
And Americans are doing …. nothing.
Nothing?? Yea right. He wishes. You just wait until 2 weeks from tomorrow when we vote the Republicans back in power to right all the wrongs listed above.
Freedom ain’t free when I want my cuontry back because you want to confizcate producers money to give to lazy moochers in a utopia where people think they are entitled to a job that pays some money when they work hard like socialists don’t.
Oh yea, I remember also_ And bring back preyer in school because of the Constetution says Gays should not marry in the Military or have abortions out of wed-lock/ God Bless our Real Americans who were born here a long time ago and we need lower taxes (
All public schools are funded by threat of force /confiscation of property owners. All public school employees are welfare recipients because their pay is 100% tax funded.
It seems that you advocate forced redistribution of wealth socialism/statism.
All public schools areThe United States Military is funded by threat of force /confiscation of property owners. Allpublic school employeessoldiers are welfare recipients because their pay is 100% tax funded.It seems that you advocate forced redistribution of wealth socialism/statism. And Neo-con Imperialism
I have no respect for the US soldier..none. US soldiers know the evil they do around the world at the massive detriment to all things American and human. You bet the American soldier is a welfare funded killer.
I have no respect for the US soldier..none.
Thanks for posting this, it will help me to know how much credibility to assign your future posts.
Thank you for posting your jingosim. It will not mean one iota to your credibility regarding future posts. Credibility will rest upon the position not the position giver.
Note that you provided no rejoinder. Perhaps you are less than convicted in your position?
War expenditures and the disregard for fundamental law will ultimately bankrupt America and relieve Americans of all their rights.
At the least you can look to the soldier for his contribution to the destruction of America and of humanity. Sure the politician shares the blame but without seriously ignorant soldiers the politician is nothing.
I judge soldiers as individuals. Why is that jingoism? No rejoinder seemed worth making toward a blanket statement like yours. I agree with your concerns, but I don’t blame the soldier for the things he can’t control. You control the politicians more than he does.
A soldier refusing to fight in Iraq strikes fear in the hearts of politicians see Lt. Watada.
Remember a voter always votes for government ergo the government has nothing to worry about.
“but I don’t blame the soldier for the things he can’t control.”
Except that they volunteered. Had they been drafted I could understand the sentiment.
“United States Military is funded by threat of force /confiscation of property owners. All soldiers are welfare recipients because their pay is 100% tax funded.”
Funny how that’s never a problem. Carte Blanche for the military, but when its about education or healthcare money is too tight to mention.
I wish others would make different choices all the time. It’s still quite a leap from there to I have no respect for [insert other people] ..none.. I’ve been close enough to their job before to have some empathy for the difficulty of some of their decisions.
“Except that they volunteered. Had they been drafted I could understand the sentiment.”
I can’t. A drafted man can still refuse to serve in the wholesale killing of people.
A free man can always say “NO”.
What the hell are they putting in the coffee down there?
What the hell are they putting in the coffee down there?
LOL. Real sugar. Not the high-fructose government corn stuff you all are lucky enough to get up there. In everything.
Do you drive a sugar ethanol car, Rio?
“Do you drive a sugar ethanol car, Rio?”
I’ll bet it’s a sweet ride.
Give a new meaning to the expression “rum runner”.
Do you drive a sugar ethanol car, Rio?
Do you drive a “sugar” in an ethanol car, Rio?
Do you drive a “sugar” in an ethanol car, Rio?
Now that’s funny!
“What the hell are they putting in the coffee down there?”
Progressive beans.
“I want my country back because you want to confizcate producers money to give to lazy moochers in a utopia where people think they are entitled to a job that pays some money when they work hard like socialists don’t.”
You have just described your dislike of theses traits:lazy, moocher,socialist living on taxes. All of these traits describe politicians.
Then you proceed to state your intention of voting for said politicians.
Up is down?
Up is down?
If you think that’s wild, get a load of this…down here, they’re going into SUMMER and the toilets flush BACKWARDS!
Bidet? Or something seriously unhygenic?
nah, merely centripetality in play.
lint, Rio is demonstrating his/her sick sense of humor.
You have just described your dislike of theses traits:lazy, moocher,socialist living on taxes. All of these traits describe politicians.
From: “The King & I” :
“You have just described your dislike of theses traits: lazy, moocher,socialist living on taxes. All of these traits describe people who could give a shasta about the people who watch their kids , wash their car, invest their money, plan their vacation, deliver their furniture, tend to their horses, cats, dogs, frogs, hamsters, crickets,…etc.etc,etc.”
Production in U.S. Unexpectedly Falls for First Time in a Year
Production in the U.S. unexpectedly dropped in September for the first time in more than a year, evidence of the slowdown in growth that is concerning some Federal Reserve policy makers.
Output at factories, mines and utilities fell 0.2 percent, the first decline since the recession ended in June 2009, according to figures from the Fed today. Another report showed builders were less pessimistic than projected this month.
Slackening production means it will take longer for the economy to make a dent in the excess capacity that is containing prices and prompting Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke to consider additional monetary stimulus. Improving demand from overseas and gains in business investment indicate orders at manufacturers like Alcoa Inc. will not weaken much more.
“It’s just not the kind of pace we need to create jobs and make inroads into reducing unused capacity and reduce unemployment,” said John Ryding, chief economist at RDQ Economics LLC in New York. “It is encouraging to see a little more optimism on the housing side, which might mean the sector is starting to stabilize.”
U.S. Homebuilder Confidence Rose Four-Month High in October
Housing construction will be slow to recover after the end of a home buyers’ tax credit and as foreclosures flood the market with cheaper homes.
Confidence among U.S. homebuilders rose in October to the highest level in four months, a sign residential construction is stabilizing at depressed levels.
The National Association of Home Builders/Wells Fargo confidence index increased to 16, exceeding the most optimistic forecast in a Bloomberg News survey, from 13 the prior month, data from the Washington-based group showed today. The gauge was projected to rise to 14, according to the median estimate in the Bloomberg survey.
Housing construction will be slow to recover after the end of a home buyers’ tax credit and as foreclosures flood the market with cheaper homes. Unemployment near a 26-year high of 10.1 percent is making it difficult for Americans to take advantage of the lowest mortgage rates on record.
“It is encouraging to see a little more optimism on the housing side, which might mean the sector is starting to stabilize,” said John Ryding, chief economist at RDQ Economics LLC in New York.
I may have said it before on this blog (sorry if I am repeating myself), but bank-owned lots and teardowns in my area have come down enough that we could pretty much build for less than the asking prices of similar existing homes. Also, there aren’t very many spec homes on the market at all compared to a year or two ago. So I can see why homebuilders might be feeling more confident.
Fear of being unable to find a builder who can stay solvent for the duration of our project is one big factor holding us back from building right now.
Fed and Oil Fuel Talk of Demand Destruction
October 18, 2010 MarketWatch
As crude oil edged dangerously closer to $85 a barrel over the past few weeks, the buzz in oil trading pits and among a number of market strategists is increasingly about potential “demand destruction,” or the impact this might have on retrenched consumers and an already weakening economy.
Ironically, of course, crude’s more than 11% rally in September, and further gains so far this month, are largely symptoms of the Federal Reserve’s determination to help the U.S. economy avoid deflation by pumping more dollars into the system.
By itself, a weakening U.S. currency helps boost commodities, most of which are dollar-denominated. In addition, over the past two years, near-zero interest rates and the Fed’s so-called quantitative easing measures have fueled a carry trade: Investors have borrowed cheap and cheapening dollars to buy assets such as stocks and commodities.
Since June, the dollar index, which pits the U.S. unit against major currencies, has slumped 16%. The slide intensified in September, with the dollar losing 9% in the month as it became clearer that the Fed would soon provide further stimulus.
As a result, crude oil earlier this month returned convincingly above $80 a barrel and continues to head higher.
Energy analysts say the move is not driven by fundamentals.
And there is the inflation deflation debate in a nut shell.
Hey Harry hows that getting us out the hole thing working out? I’m sure the jobless in Nevada appreciate all of the ‘hard’ work, you’ve been doing.
The women running against this douche bag may be a nut, but I hope she kicks his creepy azz.
~ Harry Reid: Obama “Like The Chilean Miners”
“It was like the Chilean miners, but he, being the man he is, rolled up his sleeves and said ‘I am going to get us out of this hole,’” Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) said in Las Vegas on Sunday.
If that mine were in Nevada, Obama would have
a) imposed a ban on mining
b) refused help from foreign countries with the knowledge and resources required to get the miners out
c) commissioned a 6 months study by the EPA to determine if rescuing the miners would hurt a cactus
d) blames everyone but himself for the failure of getting the miners out
e) prime time speech where he talks about the evils of mining
f) continued to play golf and vacation
one out of six.
nationalize banks…check
nationalize auto….check
nationalize health care…check
institute lifetime unemployment benefits as a new “right”…check
next up…ban cell phone use whole driving. Because as we all know that is the most pressing concern for the country right now.
“Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood has heightened his rhetoric in the distracted driving debate, proposing in an interview with Bloomberg that an outright ban on cell phone use in vehicles may be appropriate.
He said drivers are distracted by any in-vehicle gadget use, even the hands-free kind, and research may lead him to encourage states to ban the devices from cars, according to the report.
“I don’t want people talking on phones, having them up to their ear or texting while they’re driving,” LaHood said the interview. “We need a lot better research on other distractions.”
Typical anti-business rhetoric once again from the WH. What LaHood would know if he ever had a non-govt job in his life, is that people work in the car often. They make sales calls. They call into conference calls. Millions of people conduct day to day business while on the go. But why should that matter? Govt knows what’s best for us.
“I don’t want people talking on phones, having them up to their ear or texting while they’re driving,” LaHood said the interview. “We need a lot better research on other distractions.”
It’s all about what czar LaHood wants, besides it’s for the chidrens.We just need to wrap the whole country in an air bag.
I will say that one report out states that texting while driving now causes more “accidents” than drunk driving, and I do believe that. There are some major retards on the road.
nationalize banks…check
Last time I checked the TBTF banks were still privately owned. You can even buy stock in them.
nationalize auto….check
Really? Even if we were to consider GM as “Nationalized” its only a small fragment of the automobile market.
nationalize health care…check
OK, this is disingenous even by your standards. Let’s see now … there is no public option, doctors do not work for the government, most hospitals are privately owned, ditto with big pharma. What part of the system was “nationalized” again? Where is the National Heath System?
“Millions of people conduct day to day business while on the go. But why should that matter? Govt knows what’s best for us.”
Uh, maybe because its dangerous? I wish I had a dollar for everytime some yahoo yammering or texting on a cell phone has nearly crashed into me. And we had a tragedy in my own little burg where some clueless “mover and shaker” ran over and killed a child while “conducting business” behind the wheel. The imbecile wasn’t even aware that she hit the child and drove away. Fortunately there were witnesses and she was busted.
Eddie = Phelps family = Operating in an alternate reality.
I’ve begun treating Eddie’s post the same way as Phelps family protests…….like roadkill. Momentarily distasteful/disgusting as you pass by, but soon fading away in your rear view mirror.
As the Topeka locals have learned, it is best to ignore them.
From now on according to Colorado no more eating in cars since at some point someone somewhere cut someone else off while eating something. Same for
drinking a soda
listening to music
having a conversation with a passenger
having kids in the back seat arguing
looking for street signs when trying to find an address
looking for a gas station
Basically from now on the only thing anyone is allowed to do is stare straight ahead and remain silent while driving.
GM is owned by Obama and his cronies in the unions. If you don’t consider that as nationalization, I don’t know what you think nationalization is.
Banks may be privately owned but they are so regulated they are de facto owned by the govt.
If the govt dictates to insurance companies who they have to accept and what benefits they have to pay, those companies are not insurance companies. They are government agencies.
Insurance companies analyze risk and issue poliies based on the risk. Obamacare does not allow risk to be a factor anymore. Everyone has to be accepted regardless of ability to pay, health risks or any other factor. That’s not insurance. That’s a public utility run by and regulated by the govt. You don’t need a “Department of National Health” to have the same effect as one.
GM is owned by Obama and his cronies in the unions. If you don’t consider that as nationalization, I don’t know what you think nationalization is. Banks may be privately owned but they are so regulated they are de facto owned by the govt.
If you don’t think that is not nationalization I know what you think nationalization is, isn’t.
Kids are pretty distracting in cars, can we ban those too?
Maybe there shouldn’t be any radios in cars either.
If 99 wks is your personal life expectancy, eddie, then we all can be grateful.
Isn’t this good news? Who needs those of us in the middle class. All we need are the upper class rich and the dependent poor folk.Sounds like a politicians dream.
How the Middle Class Is Shrinking
usnews
Woodstock. The moon landing. The escalating war in Vietnam. The year 1969 was momentous enough, yet in retrospect it seems to have represented one additional pivot point in U.S. history: the high-water mark for the middle class.
As America limps to the end of the first decade of the 21st century, the middle class that once formed its core strength seems to be in tatters. The manufacturing jobs that once helped millions get ahead have been in sharp decline for a decade, and now number one-third less than they did in 2000, despite a growing population. Wages have fallen as jobs have migrated overseas, with the typical family’s income, after inflation, down 5 percent since 2000. News headlines warn that the middle class is becoming “extinct” or being “wiped out of existence.” Elizabeth Warren, the head of the government’s new financial watchdog agency, has been warning of a middle-class meltdown for a decade, and said recently that “the system is broken and it’s crushing families all across this country.”
In 1969 - New Jersey (F*cken NEW JERSEY) had NO income tax, a 5% slaes tax and very affordable property taxes. It was a LOW TAX state.
What also happened in 1969???? Public employees were allowed to unionize and the rape of the taxpayer began.
In 1969 I was working for room and board plus $17.50 per week and tips in the mountains of Maine. Six days on out of seven. Summer job, but still.
My dad was an exec in NYC and he lived in a 1200 ft2 ranch in NJ and owned one car. Mom did a lot of DIY stuff to make life good. They had no debt.
If that is the middle class Ms. Warren wants to save, I think the bus already left the station.
The manufacturing jobs that once helped millions get ahead have been in sharp decline for a decade, and now number one-third less than they did in 2000, despite a growing population.
This is a becoming a REAL disaster. Economically and National Security-wise.
Wages have fallen as jobs have migrated overseas, with the typical family’s income, after inflation, down 5 percent since 2000. News headlines warn that the middle class is becoming “extinct” or being “wiped out of existence.”
Are our politicians and large Corporations traitors?
“Are our politicians and large corporations traitors?”
Q. Why did the scorpion sting the frog?
A. Because that’s what scorpions do.
AMT ALARM: Without a ‘Patch,’ Millions Could See Taxes Soar
SPECIAL: If lame-duck Congress doesn’t take action to enact changes in the Alternative Minimum Tax — originally aimed at just 155 rich Americans — as many as 25 million taxpayers could see their tax burden jump.
This is a done deal. The upper middle class is all they have left to squeeze. The elite own the gov. The poor have no money. The middle class are now poor.
Take a tip from Willy Sutton: Go to where the money is.
“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
- Thomas Jefferson
Clueless Barry sez…
Fear Driving Voters to GOP, Obama Says
As voters turn increasingly more to Republican candidates in midterms, the president says Americans are so ’scared’ they’re not thinking straight — and it’s driving them from Democrats
“Fear Driving Voters to GOP, Obama Says”
You know you’re a loser when you turn to the bible thumping GOP for help. “You’ve cum [sic] to right place, my son. hehe.”
The best vote is NOT for an incumbent!
That’s all they have left. Their policies are complete failures. Their lies have been exposed. They can’t run on their record. So they resort to calling the voters stupid. I hope they keep it up. Nothing like being told you’re a moron by Barry to get you to vote for him in 2012, eh libs?
I was thinking that the GOP giving Sarah Palin the nod would be sufficient to ensure Obama’s reelection.
If the GOP is stupid enough to give her the nod, then Barry is a shoe in. One of the GOP’s big problems is all they trot out are retreads.
The GOP will probably do what it did back in 1996: Offer a can’t-win ticket like Dole-Kemp. Or the 1964 Goldwater ticket.
“Offer a can’t-win ticket like Dole-Kemp. Or the 1964 Goldwater ticket”.
It would come as no surprise they seem to live in a disconnect like some many of the D.C. denizens.
Once upon a time there was this guy from California. He was an actor. An actor!! Lots of talk about him running for president as a Republican. And lots of liberals salivating at that since he had no chance in hell of winning.
We all know how that turned out.
While I’m no great fan of Palin I would love to see her as prez. Just to be able to say President Sarah Palin to liberals for 4 years and see the disgust in their eyes would all be worth it.
While I’m no great fan of Palin I would love to see her as prez.
Me too. But I’m a long term thinker.
Eddie,
You act like there wouldn’t be disgust in Republican’s eyes if Sarah became Prez. I can’t tell you the number of people I know that switched parties because of her and the Republican so called leaders.
Well you know what REALLY happens when your policies are complete failures? You get Obama, Pelosi and Reid.
This one is for Combo…keep that money flowing!
On Monday October 18, 2010, 1:06 pm EDT
CHICAGO (Reuters) - Homeowners are likely to wait until the value of their property drops well below what they owe on their homes before walking away from their debts, researchers at the San Francisco Fed said on Monday.
While it might seem reasonable to expect mortgage defaults the moment property values dip below borrowings, homeowners typically stay in their homes until long after that point, the researchers said in the latest issue of the bank’s Economic Letter.
“House price changes alone are not the sole predictor of default,” wrote John Krainer, a senior economist at the San Francisco Fed, and Stephen LeRoy, a professor emeritus at the University of California, Santa Barbara, and a visiting scholar at the San Francisco Fed. “The rational default point is below the ‘underwater’ point where house price equals the remaining loan balance, and depends on prospects for future house price appreciation and borrower default costs.”
If homeowners believe their houses will regain lost value, or if they perceive big disadvantages from defaulting like the expense of moving or a lower credit rating, they will try to hold on to their homes, the researchers said.
“The rational default point is below the ‘underwater’ point where house price equals the remaining loan balance, and depends on prospects for future house price appreciation and borrower default costs.”
Future house price appreciation is key. This is why, among other reasons, our economic leaders will do whatever is in their power to ensure that hopes for future home price appreciation remain stoked.
“This one is for you Combo …keep that money flowing!”
Support the NAR, the taxpayer’s best friend.
Clipped from the Agora 5min. forecast…
“We would love to see $100 a barrel,” said the head of Libya’s national oil company last week at an OPEC meeting in Vienna. Because the U.S. dollar has been so weak lately, “we’re losing real income.”
Venezuela’s oil minister agreed, saying the “real price” of oil is about $20 above the current $82.
We don’t know whether the ministers can will their way to a higher price. But we do know a lot of interesting things happen if they do. Hard-to-access projects that aren’t economically viable at $60 a barrel — deep-water off Brazil and Canadian tar sands come to mind — suddenly become lucrative at $100-plus.
Higher oil prices also mark an “X” on a geological surveyor’s map of the North Pole.
“We think it is imperative to keep the Arctic as a zone of peace,” declared Russia’s Prime Minister Vladimir Putin last month. The venue: A Moscow summit of all five powers bordering the Arctic — Russia, the United States, Canada, Denmark (via Greenland) and Norway.
Up to a quarter of the world’s untapped oil and gas resources may lie beneath the Arctic. The purpose of the summit? To hash out which portions of the Arctic belong to which country. Russia claims a mountain range that lies beneath the water — the Lomonosov Ridge — is a natural extension of Siberia’s continental shelf.
To underscore the point, Russia staked its claim in 2007 by planting a Russian flag made of titanium under the North Pole. The other powers were not amused.
On that “zone of peace” idea… “In a competition for resources,” reads a strategy document signed by Russian president Dmitry Medvedev in 2008, “it cannot be ruled out that military force could be used to resolve emerging problems that could destroy the balance of forces near the borders of Russia and her allies.”
So there’s a quiet military buildup in the Arctic. “Russia is planning to create a new northern frontier guards service to control the northern coast, which now looks suddenly vulnerable,” says Andrei Ivanov with the Institute of World Economy and International Relations, a Russian government think tank.
“Right now, it’s covered with ice, but if the ice caps melt, it will be uncontrolled, and any ship capable of navigating there could reach any point on our coastline. We know that Canada and the U.S. are facing a similar challenge.”
..Up to a quarter of the world’s untapped oil and gas resources may lie beneath the Arctic.
shadow oil inventory..
Fascinating, wmbz. I wonder if the North Pole will be the natural boundary for the countries concerned. Who’da thunk that global warming could produce this effect?
From the NYT
PEOPLE often remember the past with exaggerated fondness. Sometimes, however, important aspects of life really were better in the old days.
During the three decades after World War II, for example, incomes in the United States rose rapidly and at about the same rate — almost 3 percent a year — for people at all income levels. America had an economically vibrant middle class. Roads and bridges were well maintained, and impressive new infrastructure was being built. People were optimistic.
By contrast, during the last three decades the economy has grown much more slowly, and our infrastructure has fallen into grave disrepair. Most troubling, all significant income growth has been concentrated at the top of the scale. The share of total income going to the top 1 percent of earners, which stood at 8.9 percent in 1976, rose to 23.5 percent by 2007, but during the same period, the average inflation-adjusted hourly wage declined by more than 7 percent.
“During the three decades after World War II, for example, incomes in the United States rose rapidly and at about the same rate — almost 3 percent a year — for people at all income levels.”
The Baby Boom demographic bubble will be seen as America’s halcyon days through the lens of the rear-view mirror.
in 1995 you had to work 40 hours (or more) to earn enough money to buy a computer. Today it takes about one day.
ahh.. the good old days..
ahh.. the good old days..
I miss them too.
Health Insurance Premiums Up 131% in Last Ten Years
Read more: http://money.blogs.time.com/2009/09/16/health-insurance-premiums-up-131-in-last-ten-years/#ixzz12kGtRjrD
Today, the average cost of a family health insurance offered by an employer is $13,375. That’s up 131% over the last decade—a period in which inflation rose only 28%. And one estimate says that if costs continue on their current trajectory, premiums will go up another 166% in the decade ahead.
The data was collected by the Kaiser Family Foundation and comes via USA Today:
http://money.blogs.time.com/2009/09/16/health-insurance-premiums-up-131-in-last-ten-years/#ixzz12kGg0AEH
That’s up 131% over the last decade—a period in which inflation rose only 28%.
The above says it all. And to me, it spells B-U-B-B-L-E.
specious argument..
The health care prices are totally manipulated.
“in 1995 you had to work 40 hours (or more) to earn enough money to buy a computer. Today it takes about one day.”
Let’s see … a typical PC with a monitor or a middle of the road laptop fetch about $700 these days.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t know too many people who make $700 a day,
Let’s lower the bar and stick with entry level boxes that cost $500. Multiply that times 5 days (40 hours of work) and you have $2500.
PCs did not cost $2500 in 1995. Maybe a high end one, but even way back then the average machines were under $1000. Now 1985 … maybe.
But so what if they are cheaper now? More important things have gone way up.
So what if things are cheaper?
It means that people can be “wealthier” without increased income.
It means that people can be “wealthier” without increased income.
Important things are not cheaper. Toasters, DVD players and workers are cheaper while the cost of important things like education, health-care, insurance, and housing have become much more expensive the past 30 years. While income has gone down for the middle-class and the top 1%’s income has risen from 9% to 24%.
And Joey and Eddie defends this. Why? You tell me. But I think I know.
rio..
You lovingly embrace anything that suits your agenda, including the government’s fanciful formula for “adjusting for inflation”.
How often do you buy a computer? How often do you buy or pay for health insurance? How often do you pay for food?
Well, I guess buying a computer a day helps keep the popups and spyware away.
rio..
You lovingly embrace anything that suits your agenda, including the government’s fanciful formula for “adjusting for inflation”.
Joey,
Wrong: But on the other hand, you don’t know what you’re doing or talking about. The past 30 years of American economic reality, and decline of the middle-class prove this.
I embrace common sense that could help the American people. I am an American patriot before I am a proven failure “free-market”, Cato Institute, Heritage Foundation talking-point lackey. That’s my fortune and choice.
You, on the other hand, are turning your back on your people in favor of fraudulent theories that hurt most of your own countrymen but greatly enrich a very few.
Live with it maybe, but feel guilty about defending it.
If anything, the gov’t underreports inflation.
But I agree with Rio. So what if PCs are cheaper? It doesn’t do much good when the basics go through the roof and wages collapse.
I swear you guys won’t be happy until everyone in the US is working for minimum wage.
rio.. you got all the answers and should have no problem with this one:
Exactly what is the “middle class”?
Exactly what is the “middle class”?
From where you may have come from, but from where your children may have a hard time remaining.
figures..
You claim the middle class is shrinking, and can’t even define it. It’s just more of the left’s class warfare propaganda.
..I embrace common sense that could help the American people..
You leftists can help the American people by leaving us alone. Go “help” the Brazilian people.
You claim the middle class is shrinking, and can’t even define it.
I just defined it. You just didn’t like the answer. I wouldn’t either if I didn’t have a good response as you don’t and can’t.
You leftists can help the American people by leaving us alone.
This is where you lackeys for the uber-rich traitors are wrong. My kind are not leftists. How can one be a leftist if they fight for the hard workers of their countries? We are not looking for a handout. We are not looking for charity. You twist and pervert economic and social concepts to the benefit of those who have all.
No. What we are looking for is a country that treats hard work and patriotism with the respect that we and our forefathers have shown our country.
You have forsaken your people for you mammon. Sleep well.
can help the American people by leaving us alone.
I know. I scare you as I should.
I scare liars and apologists for traitors who have ripped-off my American citizen brothers and sisters. Your bastardization of capitalism is proving to fail America.
Sorry.
Deal with it better than calling names. Or maybe you can’t.
The share of total income going to the top 1 percent of earners, which stood at 8.9 percent in 1976, rose to 23.5 percent by 2007, but during the same period, the average inflation-adjusted hourly wage declined by more than 7 percent.
But….
“TrueHaskell™” = “But, but, but…”
Smead Closes Plant in McGregor, Texas, Forcing 139 Out of Jobs
SUGAR LAND–Researched by Industrial Info Resources (Sugar Land, Texas)–Paper products company Smead Manufacturing (Hastings, Minnesota) recently announced the closing of its 181,000-square-foot production and distribution plant in McGregor, Texas, which is 15 miles southwest of Waco. Since 1971, Smead has produced office folders and other organizational products in McGregor.
Office folders.. now there’s an indispensable product. How will we live without them?
I bought a box of file pockets two or three years ago. I’m still not finished with it.
Same goes for stationery. Takes me years to use that stuff up too.
Multiply me by a few million other home-based business types, and the office supply industry has a real big problem.
I found some carbon paper if anyone needs it.
Office foldersDecent American Jobs.. now there’s an indispensable product. How will we live without them?ok.. if you feel that strongly about it..
You now own that company, rio. It’s up to you to produce office folders and keep those people working.
You’re smart. I know you’ll find a way to do it..
You now own that company, rio. It’s up to you to produce office folders and keep those people working.
You’re smart. I know you’ll find a way to do it..
The owner can’t in many cases. Rational trade protectionism could.
rational.. protectionism..
OK.. that does it. You had your chance.
I’m taking that company away from you and giving it to a deserving entrepreneur..
“I’m taking that company away from you and giving it to a deserving entrepreneur..”
Who will offshore it to China.
Neither protectionist policies nor offshoring will revive the market for buggy whips or for office folders. Those products are dead.
Things change.
It’s not easy, but people gotta put some serious thought into their employment situation. If one’s job security depends on a decline in the utility of computers, it’s days are numbered.
I’m taking that company away from you and giving it to a deserving entrepreneur..
You and yours don’t have the ability to take jack from me, and you never will.
Those products are dead.
So are your failed attempts at economic theory.
rio.. Theorize all you like.. it’s relatively harmless… but leave the actual running of businesses to people who know how.
Those products are dead. Yes, circle of life and all that. The problem isn’t so much that we’re not making as many file folders any more, it’s that we’re not making memory chips (arguably their replacement) either.
but leave the actual running of businesses to people who know how.
Joey,
You are getting boring and predictable.
I’ve run my own businesses since I graduated university.
I wonder if you’ve ever done either. If you have done either, I wonder if you ever benefited your country’s people.
The problem …it’s that we’re not making memory chips
that’s one way to look at it.
..but maybe the problem is that while we have taken a large step into the future, one foot remains planted back in the manufacturing world… and we can’t (or don’t want to) lift it.
WTH has the fed been doing? I’d say they were “acting” all over the economy.
Federal Reserve urged to act on economy ~ Washington
A senior member of the Federal Reserve has warned that the US economy is in a “liquidity trap” and signaled support for more action to boost the recovery.
Charles Evans, president of the Chicago Fed, said that “in my opinion, much more policy accommodation is appropriate today” because “the US economy is best described as being in a bona fide liquidity trap”, a point where ultra-low interest rates and high savings rates conspire to make monetary policy ineffective.
Speaking in Boston on Saturday, he said the Fed should consider using a temporary target for the level of prices instead of the rate of inflation in order to drag the economy out the trap by convincing businesses and consumers to stop saving and start investing and spending.
Such a move would be in addition to a fresh asset purchase programme, or quantitative easing, now under consideration.
“I think there are special circumstances when price-level targeting would be a helpful complement to our current and prospective strategies,” Mr Evans said.
A target for prices is one way the Fed could try to persuade the public that inflation will recover in future and thereby stimulate the economy.
I’ll believe they are serious when the helicopter drops fall on American cities instead of on Wall Street.
Lincoln Is `Very Bullish’ on Commercial Real Estate
Lincoln National Corp., the insurer that repaid a $950 million U.S. bailout, said it’s seeking to make more commercial real estate loans after the company’s portfolio weathered the economic slump.
“We’re very bullish on the asset class,” Chief Financial Officer Frederick Crawford said today at an industry conference in Baltimore. The Radnor, Pennsylvania-based insurer’s confidence is based on a “longer-term” basis, Crawford said.
Life insurers extend loans to property owners as part of their investment strategy. MetLife Inc., the biggest U.S. life insurer, and No. 2 Prudential Financial Inc. said this year there may be opportunities to invest in commercial real estate. Lincoln had about $6.9 billion in commercial mortgages as of June 30, and borrowers were current on 99 percent of their loans, the company said in a filing in August.
“We’ve seen little in the way of deterioration in our underlying portfolio,” Crawford said in an interview after his discussion on a panel with other investment managers. “We have an appetite to lend more. But finding assets that fit with our underwriting standards is very difficult” as lenders compete for business, Crawford said.
..But finding assets that fit with our underwriting standards is very difficult”..
Maybe that’s because the value of commercial real estate (or a CRE loan) has little to do with real estate and everything to do with the success of the particular business which occupies it.
Hey, everybody! I just enjoyed a brief trip to the Phoenix, AZ area, and then to the Midwest. Four quick observations:
1. While I was visiting the Phoenix area, a couple of newspaper articles caught my eye. One said that almost half the local home sales were foreclosures. Another reported a downturn in revenue for Apollo Group, which is the parent company of the University of Phoenix. Enrollments are down from what they were in what the paper termed the depth of the recession.
2. Airports I went through were all jam-packed — Phoenix, Denver, Detroit, and Chicago. Planes were full too.
3. My visit to the Ann Arbor area was sort of a tale of two cities. Around the U-M campus, lots of hustle, bustle, and construction. A few blocks away, the city was looking a bit more run-down. I visited an Ann Arbor friend whose office sits across the street from an abandoned condo conversion project. And it was every bit as abandoned when I saw my friend three years ago.
Eek! My brain’s still on vacation. I miscounted the number of observations. It’s three, not four.
And Michigan got their asses kicked by Iowa. Sorry.
Ee-gads! It was painful to watch how bad Michigan’s defense was.
And, sorry to say, the decline of our once fearsome D isn’t entirely Rich Rodriguez’s fault. The trouble began during the Lloyd Carr years.
OTOH, I liked the look of the expanded stadium. And the pregame tailgate at gubernatorial candidate Rick Snyder’s RV was pretty cool. I signed his bus.
Apple Smashes Estimates- AP
Apple says its fourth-quarter net income soared 70 percent on staggering sales of iPhones and iPads.
Apple also projects an exceptional X-Mas buying season, orders are stacked up!Buy now or be priced out forever.
Anyone catch the “eye” phone episode on Futurama?
I hear the Max-iPad is soon to be released.
Looks like there’s a little “selling the news” thing going on with AAPL this evening.
i really detest all the fricken proprietary Apple crap and this is one instance where my feelings override my desire to make money.
I’ll never buy AAPL or any of their products if i can help it.
I’m starting to look at ways to replace my current computer. Desktop with a tower CPU that still runs fine, even though it’s five years old.
The idea of a laptop with lots of RAM, using Ubuntu as the O/S, is really tempting. I’d pair it with a flat panel monitor.
I never owned a laptop, but I finally bought an Acer netbook for traveling. It’s got the same basic specs as my slower desktop (1.66 ghz) and runs Win7 with no problem. $200. Weight 2 pounds.
When plugged into this monitor it could replace the desktop box. Probably want to use a USB keyboard for convenience..
Plus it’s got built-in wifi, and I’ve set up a wireless network. GPS dongle tells me where I am, and runs MS Streets and Trips, which is nice when on the road.
Personally, i wouldn’t go with linux. Software availability is one reason. Learning a new OS is the other.
I’ll never buy AAPL or any of their products if i can help it.
And they don’t need you to.
It’s a mite out of character for you to come to the defense of these multinational corporations..
“And they don’t need you to”
is a defense?
I’ll come to the defense of the multinational corporations…
They are fattening my 401k.
Anyone who invests in stocks for the long run in their 401k and hates them urinates in his own beer.
Anyone who invests in stocks for the long run in their 401k and hates them urinates in his own beer.
You’re kind of right about that.
Maybe that’s why I like to drink whiskey.
Beanie-babies were all the rage once, too.
Apple Smashes Estimates- AP
Apple says its fourth-quarter net income soared 70 percent on staggering sales of iPhones and iPads.
Would now be a good time to examine the the 1,000 shares I buried in 1991?
I think most positively so…
How come no one here bought appl when it was cheaper? Things that make you go hm….
I did one thing right, bought Apple when it was $60. Yay!
My daughter and I have made some observations while shopping: TJ Maxx and Marshall’s: jam packed with lines at the register. Had the environment of prestorm food shopping. Carousell Mall (ha ha ha) w/it 100s of chain stores echoy and empty. Although it was dinner time on a football Sunday. I never saw that stop people before though. Game Stop had the only line I saw there. The 3rd floor was eerily empty.
I bought a few shirts at Old Navy yesterday. It was pretty quiet.
The stores in Rio are very full. 70% of the stuff in the stores is made in Brazil. The stuff costs about 100% more than the cheap Chinese stuff in the USA however, Brazil has lots of industrial production and 35 million Brazilians have joined the middle class the past 12 years out of a population of 190 million. Houses are clean, neat and sparse.
I guess they like jobs more than cheap stuff.
I keep trying to tell them that cheap stuff is rad but they look at me like I’m talking dumb stuff.
I guess they didn’t get Joey’s and Eddie’s talking points.
Eddie attended a workshop for snobs and arrogant douchebags and the class was 95% full and had a waiting list. No recession signs at all.
On yesterday’s flight back to Phoenix, I sat near a guy who’s supervising the finish carpentry on this baby boutique.
Now, I dunno about you, but I don’t know if my parents would have been caught dead in a baby boutique. After all, what they’d buy there would have been obsolete in a year or so. (I was an only child, so there was no one to hand my baby stuff down to.)
AZ,
Aren’t all clothes obsolete in a year or two? Whether you buy them at a boutique or at Walmart, in 2 years most clothes are out of style.
in 2 years most clothes are out of style.
For you maybe however most substantial people’s self-worth is derived from more than other’s perception of their wardrobe.
I may be arrogant. But that’s only because I’m right about everything.
I may be arrogant. But that’s only because I’m right about everything.
“This f@!king Guy!,” Jon Stewart.
“TrueHaskell™” = “But, but, but…that’s only because I’m right about everything”
“hoc tui splat!” (In Montana™)
I don’t give a sheeeeeeeeeyat! fpss
BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! (fpss™)
&
BWAHAHAHicHAHAHicHAHAHAHAHicHAHAHic* (DennisN™)
&
Ho ho, hah hah, hehehehehehe, BwaHaHaAhHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! (Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower™)
Bumper sticker: “It’s hard to humble when you’re always right”.
“It’s hard to always be right when you lie a lot.”
Heh. I treat your sort regularly. Always fun.
Small-time bankster busted for making “straw loans” to herself:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/10/18/1770959/mooresville-banker-charged-with.html
Fed extends a helping hand to Hilton Hotels and takes over malls across the country – The Federal Reserve clandestine bailout of the $3 trillion commercial real estate industry. South Florida apartment building prices down 52 percent from peak.
If you think residential real estate is having problems, you should shift your gaze to the mammoth issues confronting commercial real estate. Little is mentioned about commercial real estate (CRE) in the mainstream media yet this is a $3 trillion market (or twice the annual GDP of Texas).
http://tinyurl.com/29qfjtl
“In other words, many banks would fail today if they had to mark to market the value fo their CRE debt.”
Saving the banks, it’s all about saving the banks.
$3 trillion.. What’s to be gained by exaggerating the Fed’s CRE holdings?
Of the $29 Billion in Bear Stearns collateral, only $5.5 billion is commercial loans, which has depreciated to about $4.4 billion, a potential loss of $1 billion or so.
The Oklahoma City mall was in debt for $77 mill, and is for sale for about $24 million.
Hilton Hotels got something like $180 million. How much is the Hilton empire worth?
Bank of America starts thaw in foreclosure freeze- AP
The pace of U.S. home foreclosures may not slow much after all. Bank of America said Monday that it plans to resume seizing more than 100,000 homes in 23 states next week. It said it has a legal right to foreclose despite accusations that documents used in the process were flawed.
Not much a surprise around these parts, huh?
Alan Zibel, AP Real Estate Writer, On Monday October 18, 2010, 7:24 pm
WASHINGTON (AP) — The pace of U.S. home foreclosures may not slow much after all.
Bank of America said Monday that it plans to resume seizing more than 100,000 homes in 23 states next week. It said it has a legal right to foreclose despite accusations that documents used in the process were flawed.
That was fast! Seems Ben’s real-world perspective was right on target as regards the much feared foreclosure slowdown.
Does this mean the Foreclosure Fairy won’t leave the deed to the house under anyone’s pillow?
Sounds like it. But I nonetheless expect at least some underwater borrowers to stop making payments due to high hopes for a visit from the Foreclosure Fairy, based on recent news accounts.
Dang, all fantasies dashed.
First Santa Claus.
Next Easter Bunny.
Tooth Fairy.
Now you are going after the foreclosure fairy?
“…going after the foreclosure fairy…”
Is ‘don’t ask / don’t tell’ an option in this case?
The Financial Times of London
Geithner denies US bid to weaken dollar
By Alan Beattie in Washington and Jonathan Wheatley in São Paulo
Published: October 19 2010 00:33 | Last updated: October 19 2010 00:33
Finance ministers have tried to calm tensions in foreign exchange markets, with the US Treasury secretary denying that Washington is deliberately weakening the dollar and Brazil increasing blocks on inflows of capital.
The interventions come amid concerns among policymakers that disputes over exchange rate policy could escalate into a full-blown currency war.
Speaking at a meeting in California on Monday, Tim Geithner, Treasury secretary, denied that the US was trying to devalue the dollar to boost its economy.
“It is very important for people to understand that the United States of America and no country around the world can devalue its way to prosperity and competitiveness,” he said. “It is not a viable, feasible strategy and we will not engage in it.”
On Monday Brazil announced it was again increasing a tax on foreign purchases of domestic bonds, intended to calm destabilising inflows.
Guido Mantega, the finance minister who recently warned that the world could be in a “currency war”, said a tax on fixed income investment by foreigners, which was increased from 2 per cent to 4 per cent on October 4, would be increased again to 6 per cent. In addition, collateral deposits required in such investments – also only in the case of foreigners – would be taxed at a new rate of 6 per cent instead of 0.38 per cent.
Some emerging market countries including Brazil have blamed the prospect of super-loose monetary policy in the US for putting upward pressure on their currencies. The Federal Reserve has recently signalled that it is moving towards “quantitative easing”, or pushing more money out into the financial markets.
Meanwhile the US continues to point at China’s intervention to hold down the renminbi as the source of significant current account imbalances.
The issues will be discussed by finance ministers and central bank governors from the G20 countries in a meeting this weekend in South Korea. But Brazil on Monday said that neither Mr Mantega nor Henrique Meirelles, central bank president, would be attending the meeting.
…
“It is not a viable, feasible strategy and we will not engage in it.”
But wouldn’t QE2 jawboning have essentially the same effect?
I guess Stiglitz isn’t seeking a term on the FOMC.
The Financial Times of London
It is folly to place all our trust in the Fed
By Joseph Stiglitz
Published: October 18 2010 23:37 | Last updated: October 18 2010 23:37
In certain circles, it has become fashionable to argue that monetary policy is a superior instrument to fiscal policy – more predictable, faster, without the adverse long-term consequences brought on by greater indebtedness. Indeed, some advocates wax so enthusiastic that they support recent drives for austerity in many European countries, arguing that if there are untoward effects they can be undone by monetary policy. Whatever the merits of this position in general, it is nonsense in current economic circumstances.
A quarter-century ago proponents of monetary policy argued, with equal fervour, in favour of monetarism: the most reliable intervention in the economy was to maintain a steady rate of growth in the money supply. Few would hold that now, as the velocity of circulation turned out to be less constant than the monetarists anticipated. Countries seduced by apparent certainties of monetarism found themselves in a highly uncertain world.
Traditionally, monetary authorities focus policy around setting the short-term government interest rate. But, leaving aside the fact that with interest rates near zero there is little room for manoeuvre, the impact on the real economy of changes in the interest rate remains highly uncertain. The fundamental reason should be obvious: what matters for most companies (or consumers) is not the nominal interest rate but the availability of funds and the terms that borrowers have to pay. Those variables are not determined by the central bank. The US Federal Reserve may make funds available to banks at close to zero interest rates, but if the banks make those funds available to small and medium-sized enterprises at all, it is at a much higher rate.
Indeed, in the last US recession, the Fed’s lowering interest rates did stimulate the economy, but in a way that was disastrous in the long term. Companies did not respond to low rates by increasing investment. Monetary policy (accompanied by inadequate regulation) stimulated the economy largely by inflating a housing bubble, which fuelled a consumption boom.
It should be obvious that monetary policy has not worked to get the economy out of its current doldrums. The best that can be said is that it prevented matters from getting worse. So monetary authorities have turned to quantitative easing. Even most advocates of monetary policy agree the impact of this is uncertain. What they seldom note, though, are the potential long-term costs. The Fed has bought more than a trillion dollars of mortgages and long-term bonds, the value of which will fall when the economy recovers – precisely the reason why no one in the private sector is interested. The government may pretend that it has not experienced a capital loss because, unlike banks, it does not have to use mark-to-market accounting. But no one should be fooled.
…
Keynes being proved right again. It won’t be the last time…
“The government may pretend that it has not experienced a capital loss because, unlike banks, it does not have to use mark-to-market accounting.”
Banks are now required to use mark-to-market accounting? That’s certainly news to me.
Even if business law has a clear path to assign title, I am wondering to what party that path leads. Certainly not to somebody who has stopped paying the mortgage, but what about banks versus investors? And how about loans that were sliced and diced, then sold all over? How does one allocate losses, especially when the collateral sits in the form of REO with an indeterminate market value?
It seems like an unusual amount of uncertainty remains, even with a clear path to establish who holds title.
* HOMES
* OCTOBER 19, 2010
On Foreclosures, BofA Has Explaining to Do
By DAVID REILLY
Both J.P. Morgan Chase and Citigroup managed to play down the foreclosure debacle during recent earnings reports. Bank of America can’t afford to do the same when it reports third-quarter results Tuesday.
Bank of America has been at the center of the mortgage storm since it halted foreclosures earlier this month in all 50 states because of faulty affidavits. It has the largest mortgage-servicing arm among big banks and also could be on the hook for problems with loans originated by Countrywide Financial, which it bought in 2008. Its shares were hit hardest during last week’s selloff of big bank stocks.
On Monday, the bank started to try to calm markets, saying it would amend documents in 102,000 foreclosure actions, expects less than 30,000 foreclosure-sale delays and will restart foreclosure proceedings later this month in 23 states.
But Bank of America also has to address investors’ biggest concern—whether the foreclosure issues reflect deeper problems with loans’ legal status. If that were the case, banks could face a big risk from private investors demanding repurchases of securitized mortgage bonds.
…
Witness: Signatures Were Faked At Foreclosure Firm
by The Associated Press
ORLANDO, Fla. October 18, 2010, 05:10 pm ET
The office manager at a Florida law firm under investigation for fabricating foreclosure documents would sign her name to 1,000 files a day without reviewing them and would allow paralegals to sign her name for her when she got tired, her former secretary said in a deposition released Monday.
Cheryl Salmons, office manager at the law offices of David Stern, would sign 500 files in the morning and another 500 files in the afternoon without reviewing them and with no witnesses, said former assistant Kelly Scott in a deposition released by the Florida attorney general’s office.
The files were laid out on a conference room table for Salmons to sign, the former secretary said.
“She doesn’t review them. She just looks,” Scott said. “The paper is going to be in the top folder so it’s visible to her, and she knows exactly where she has to put her signature.”
Paralegals would then collect the files and swap them with each other, signing them as witnesses even though they had already been notarized and executed, Scott said.
Salmons allowed some paralegals to sign her name for her, said the former assistant, who worked at the firm for a year in 2008.
“Most of the time she was very tired, exhausted from signing her name numerous times per day,” Scott said. “You have to understand it was more than 500 files that she is signing morning and afternoon.”
…
“Most of the time she was very tired, exhausted from signing her name numerous times per day,” Scott said.
WTF!? Hasn’t anyone at BAC heard of an invention called the rubber stamp? Never mind the law suits over improper foreclosures, these guys better watch out for a class action suit for carpal tunnel.
…without reviewing them and with no witnesses, said former assistant Kelly Scott in a deposition released by the Florida attorney general’s office…
I gaze into my crystal ball .. and see an article written one month from today:
“The Florida Atty General’s office has been accused of robo-signing tens of thousands of court documents regarding the robo-signing of tens of thousands of foreclosure documents.”
“The Florida Atty General’s office has been accused of robo-signing tens of thousands of court documents regarding the robo-signing of tens of thousands of foreclosure documents.”
Now why would that be necessary given that there were only five or so robo-signing Megabanks?
Only the top 5% of households actually gained enough income to match the rise in housing costs since 1975.
http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/are-the-rich-getting-richer-the-data-says-yes/19356546/
…One factor in this financial decline that’s rarely noted is that housing has risen greatly in cost, even when adjusted for inflation. The average home price in 1975 was $158,000 when calculated in 2008 dollars. The average (mean) house price in December 2008 was $301,200 — almost twice the 1975 cost (90.7% higher).
huh? 2008? This guy is using bubble prices as a basis for his 5% conclusion?
Only the top 5% of households actually gained enough income to match the rise in housing costs since 1975.
Joey and Eddie see nothing wrong with this. They actually have no concern with their fellow Americans. To them, there is no country. There is no history of our forefathers fighting for rights, for opportunity and for protections against the rawer forms of exploitation.
To them there is no exploitation nor greed, for how can there even be greed when in fact, to them, greed is “good” and to be worshiped on the alter of “free-markets”? And our decline is inevitable to them right? Do you read what they espouse?
I mean honorable, decent paying jobs are equal to buggy whip manufacturing to them right? Have they not made themselves clear? Have not the Republicans and a lot of Democrat fakers made this clear to us?
They might actually feebly defend this fact and call me names after my post but they are continually and logically weak in their failed arguments. How could they not be? It’s not even a practical question anymore.
The past 30 years of the decline in the American way of life have proven this. It’s not theory anymore, it’s proven.
rio.. At least read the article and the linked page, and digest them..
..Though many decry the decline of manufacturing in the U.S., it’s really low-value manufacturing that has been squeezed out. High-value manufacturing (semiconductors, telecom equipment and energy equipment, for example) is actually on the rise (link).
——
If the trend continues, which it hopefully will, low value, low wage manufacturing jobs are not in our future, and nobody with any sense will shed a tear over it.
If the trend continues, which it hopefully will, low value, low wage manufacturing jobs are not in our future, and nobody with any sense will shed a tear over it.
Don’t give me that BS, twisted Cato Institute failed logic lie.
Don’t tell me that it is not important for America to produce shirts, chairs, desks, carpet, speakers, nails, hammers, saws, toys, coffee tables, DVDs, pencils, pens, paper, guitars, pillows, fans, levels, faucets, sinks, plates, rugs, sheets, pillow cases, luggage, brief cases, hats, caps, bras, panties, drapes, watches, tables, glasses, forks, socks, underwear, tile, screws, picture frames, electric outlets, tires, mirrors, windows, hinges, lights, etc etc.
Low value? Like 90% of the things we use in our daily lives are low value?
Give me a big fat break with that BS.
..Like 90% of the things we use in our daily lives are low value?
I’d say it’s closer to 99.9%.
Low value? Like those offshored computer science jobs? That is soooo early 90’s. “Oooh, we’re all gonna be an *information* economy now.. just retrain”. Since you demand definitions, please define “high value”. Hedgefund analyst? I don’t see why those smart little wogs can’t do that too, and for less.
well… Computer science is not exactly manufacturing.
I suppose a “high value” skill or job can be defined as something which cannot be profitably outsourced to the slave labor countries.
“A 2009 survey found that 30% of American households earning $100,000 or more a year are living paycheck to paycheck, compared to about 60% of all U.S. households who are living without much of a financial cushion.”
People are smart. (snort)
How is it that THIRTY-PERCENT of U.S. households earning ONE-HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS OR MORE are LIVING PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK? Is common sense really all that scarce?
We are truly a nation full of dumb sh1ts.
Brainwashed dumbsh1ts. The propaganda sea we swim in everyday is amazing… and the enthusiasm which my fellow citizens… er … consumers dunk their heads in and snorff up still more of the cool aid flavored waters just makes me sad.
The accidental devaluation?
Geithner vows U.S. will not devalue dollar
By Jim Christie and David Lawder | October 18, 2010 9:08 PM EDT
U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner vowed on Monday that the United States would not devalue the dollar for export advantage, saying no country could weaken its currency to gain economic health.
“It is not going to happen in this country.” Geithner told Silicon Valley business leaders of devaluing the dollar.
…
OK, so back to the discussion on establishing title to foreclosure homes when the debt was sliced, diced and sold to all corners of the globe as MBS.
1. Suppose the Wall Street investment banks who securitized the debt structured it so the investors were only entitled to the payment stream, not the foreclosed collateral.
2. Suppose the default rate on the payments turned out ‘much higher than expected.’
3. Suppose the Fed indiscriminately snapped up MBS in order to save the banking system.
4. Suppose the value of lots of the MBS the Fed bought was actually much lower than expected, thanks to the decision of banks to retain title.
Would banks get to reclaim title to the underlying houses, leaving the Fed holding the bag on the collapsed MBS? Would it even matter, given that the Fed could paper over the collapse with a balance sheet expansion, perhaps bolstered by a sudden move to slap a federal guarantee on the (collapsed) payment stream?
I’m having a hard time figuring out the rules, given they can be changed while the game is in progress.
* HOMES
* OCTOBER 19, 2010
Banks Restart Foreclosures
BofA and GMAC Lift Their Freeze in a Counterattack Against Allegations of Fraud
By JESSICA SILVER-GREENBERG, ROBBIE WHELAN and DAN FITZPATRICK
Two major lenders at the center of the foreclosure crisis took steps Monday to put the mess behind them by restarting home seizures that were frozen by documentation concerns.
Bank of America Corp. reopened more than 100,000 foreclosure actions, declaring that it had found no significant problems in its procedures for seizing homes. GMAC Mortgage, a lender and loan servicer, said that it also is pushing ahead with an unspecified number of foreclosures that came under intense pressure.
Bank of America prepared to restart 102,000 pending foreclosure actions where court approval is required, applying new signatures to documents in 23 states. Rick Brooks discusses. Also, Elizabeth Bernstein discusses the various ways men, women, strangers and family members apologize.
Monday’s moves are part of a growing counterattack by lenders scrambling to stem a financial and political threat over allegations that certain employees signed hundreds of documents a day without carefully reviewing their contents when foreclosing on homes.
Bank of America, the nation’s largest bank in assets, which imposed on Oct. 8 a nationwide moratorium on the sale of foreclosed homes, said it has begun preparing new affidavits for pending foreclosures in 23 states where a judge’s approval is required. The paperwork will be submitted to courts by next Monday, and foreclosure sales will resume in those states starting in November, according to the bank.
Journal Community
“This is an important first step in debunking speculation that the mortgage market is severely flawed,” said Bank of America spokesman James Mahoney. More details will be disclosed when the company reports quarterly results Tuesday.
…
Real Estate Prof. Susan Wachter of University of Pennsylvania
Monday, October 18, 2010
TOM HUDSON: From ninja loans, those so-called no income, no job needed home mortgages written at the height of housing bubble, to today’s robo signing foreclosure document mess is something broke with the way the home mortgage system works in America? Susan Wachter is a professor of real estate at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania and she joins us tonight from Philadelphia. Professor, welcome to NIGHTLY BUSINESS REPORT. Nice to see you.
SUSAN WACHTER, REAL ESTATE PROFESSOR, WHARTON: Pleasure to be here.
HUDSON: So is the U.S. home mortgage system broken today?
WACHTER: Yes, Tom it is broken. The foreclosure documentation crisis is just one more example of a system that is, in fact, broken.
HUDSON: One of the reasons why you say it’s broken and what exactly is broken is the loss of control that has happened in the mortgage market. Control by whom? Who lost control?
WACHTER: Underwriters, lenders, securitizers across the board. There is a lack of control and a partial lack of control reflects a lack of oversight as well by regulators.
HUDSON: Talk about that second point in terms of the lack of oversight, because it is usually seen as mortgages are regulated at the state level, that there is not a lot of Federal oversight. Ought there be?
WACHTER: Absolutely there needs to be. The systemic risk that is generated is not a state-by-state, although I’m not saying there shouldn’t be state oversight as well. It is clearly in this case and very well can be going forward nationwide, so there needs to be oversight by regulators that are able to see the entire markets, Federal regulators.
HUDSON: I want to ask you about how to rebuild confidence but do you think it ought to be part of the new consumer financial products commission where that kind of oversight lies?
WACHTER: That could very well be there, absolutely.
HUDSON: Let’s take a look at some of your ideas to rebuild the mortgage system. You first say keep securitization. This is the idea that banks can tell mortgages into the secondary market and allow them to be securitized with mortgage-backed securities. Why do you think it is important to keep this system in place?
WACHTER: Securitization is necessary and worked for decades. Without securitization we won’t have a long-term fixed-rate mortgage. Now is not the time to rely only on short-term adjust (ph) rate mortgages because that puts the homeowner, the borrower facing interest rate risks that they can’t really deal with. Interest rates eventually are likely to go up and we will have another crisis. So we need securitization, but we need a securitization system that is transparent and where there are controls and oversight.
HUDSON: You talk about more transparency as well as an idea to rebuild confidence in the mortgage system. Transparency how and provided by whom by the home buyer, by the lender?
WACHTER: By the lender and by the securitizer. Information needs to be available, provided for mortgages and for mortgage-backed securities by both lenders, originators and securitizers in ways that can be analyzed by investors and overseen by regulators.
…
* ECONOMY
* OCTOBER 19, 2010
Industrial Output Dips
By JUSTIN LAHART
America’s industrial output fell last month for the first time in over a year, in the latest sign that the manufacturing boom that has helped bolster the U.S. economy is subsiding.
Industrial production, the combined output of the nation’s factories, mines and utilities, fell 0.2% in September from August, the Federal Reserve reported Monday—the first decline since June 2009.
Much of the decline was driven by a 1.9% drop in utilities’ output, largely the consequence of less air-conditioning use after a scorching summer. But a 0.2% decline in factory production pointed to continued slowing in the manufacturing sector.
“If it was just one month that showed this weakness, it wouldn’t be a concern,” said Daiwa Capital Markets economist Michael Moran. “But over the past four months, there’s been a clear easing trend in manufacturing.”
…