Bits Bucket For November 23, 2010
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The Housing Bubble
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1. bankster 161 up, 13 down
A portmanteau or blend word derived from combining “banker” and “gangster.” Usually referred to in the plural form “banksters” to refer to a predatory element within the financial services industry, such as those offering “too good to be true” adjustable mortgage rates for home buyers
“The banksters just foreclosed on my mom’s Mcmansion, and now she’s living in her SUV.”
moneylender loanshark usurer shylock scammer
by Neil Ogism Mar 5, 2008 share this
2. Bankster 87 up, 21 down
A portmanteau of the words “banker” and “gangster.” These are intergral to the capitalist system. While the nightly news might have you believe that young black and latino men with 9mm’s are the biggest threat to your life, banksters are far more dangerous. While a gangster might steal your posessions with a knife or a gun, a bankster will steal your possesiions with a pen, paper and “legal” (read “unjust”)
mumbo-jumbo snakeoil bullshit.
Bankster: Any member of the financial services industry; primarilly interested with the welfare of the capitalist class and their lackeys.
bankster gangster capitalist asshole douchebag
by muigikalash Mar 23, 2009 share this
3. Bankster 56 up, 4 down
A portmanteau of “banker” and “gangster”, popularized by (among others) the economist Murray N. Rothbard, used by him to attack what he held to be the inherently fraudulent nature of Fractional-Reserve banking (as opposed to 100% gold reserve banking, which he defended as the only honest form of banking). Frequently used in reference to The Fed.
In more recent popular usage, often refers in a vague way to the forces of “Wall Street”, or to those persons in the financial services industry who grow rich despite the continued impoverishment of those who depend on their services, and despite their apparent inability to succeed in business without constant government assistance.
“The Fed is an organized cartel of banksters, who are creating inflation, ripping off the public, destroying the savings of the average American.”
“The banksters crashed the economy, but thanks to generous federal bailouts, they won’t have to sacrifice their fat bonuses.”
shylock loanshark cartel the fed gangster corporate fat cat
by Dano2 Feb 15, 2010 share this
And here I thought the term came from “huckster”.
Portmanteau??
Isn’t he related to Passepartout?
Jackie Chan or Cantinflas?
It threw me too, since I remember reading about portmanteaus in Little Women and Sherlock Holmes. But here you are:
portmanteau (pɔːtˈmæntəʊ) — n , pl -teaus , -teaux
1. (formerly) a large travelling case made of stiff leather, esp one hinged at the back so as to open out into two compartments
2. ( modifier ) embodying several uses or qualities: the heroine is a portmanteau figure of all the virtues
[C16: from French: cloak carrier, from porter to carry + manteau cloak, mantle ]
My favorite portmanteau is “snide” + “sarcastic” = “snark.”
Portmanteau’s meaning is also explained during the explication of The Jabberwocky, “brillig” being an example. OlyGirl would so have appreciated that one.
“The Fed is an organized cartel of banksters, who are creating inflation, ripping off the public, destroying the savings of the average American.”
Imagine what things would be like if the Fed hadn’t saved all of us.
LOL. I love how that author simultaneously and efficiently uses the word in a sentence for context while also appearing to grind his/her axe.
The Fed is the problem, not the solution. It’s like a junkie asking a drug dealer for help with recovery.
LOL- Is that from the urban dictionary? There are some really funny usages of words there.
Can I say “usages?” I think I should have said word usage.
Portmanteau of portmanteaux
Infomercial
spokesmodel
refudiate
You forgot “misunderestimate”.
Tho’ comely, our Georgie was more a puppet than a bona fide spokesmodel, neh?
We could probably do a good one for Rove, though….
Banksta - slang, use:
“It’s GOOD to be the Banksta!”
While the nightly news might have you believe that young black and latino men with 9mm’s are the biggest threat to your life, banksters are far more dangerous.
When the kids threaten you with 9mms the cops are on YOUR side. When it’s the banksters, don’t count on the cops for help. In fact they’re likely to help throw you out if your money is gone.
Page last updated at 17:11 GMT, Friday, 30 January 2009
Banker + gangster = bankster
A POINT OF VIEW
It seems timely to resurrect this Americanism from the 1930s - one of many evocative words the United States has contributed to the English language, says Harold Evans.
Americans are pretty good at adding words to the English language. We owe them pin-up girls, highbrows, killjoys, stooges, hobos, drop-outs, shills, bobby-soxers, hijackers, do-gooders and hitchhikers who thumb a ride.
The Americanisms are so much more concise and vivid. Instead of saying “sorry we’re late but drivers ahead of us slowed us down when they craned their necks to look at a crash” you can say “we were held up by rubberneckers”.
Words pop in and out of our language as social conditions change. The American gangster, which is still with us, has been around as a noun and a reality since 1896 according to my Shorter Oxford, but it seems to have dropped another Americanism from the 1930s and I think now is the time to revive it.
The word is bankster, derived by a marriage of banker and gangster.
Crowds gathered in Wall St as news of the 1929 crash spread
Stunned crowds gathered on Wall St as news of the 1929 crash spread
It was coined, as far as I can deduce, by an American immigrant, a fiery Sicilian-born lawyer by the name of Ferdinand Pecora. He was the chief counsel to the US Senate Committee on Banking set up in the early 30s to probe the origins of the Crash of 1929.
He exposed quite a lot of the Wall Street practices that Harvard’s Professor William Z Ripley had condemned in 1928. The believable Ripley called them - get ready for these Americanisms - “prestidigitation, double-shuffling, honey-fugling, hornswoggling and skullduggery”.
The professor had vainly tried to warn President Calvin Coolidge that Wall Street was full of gas and was bound to blow up. To great discomfort all round, Pecora identified Coolidge himself, by then out of office, as one of those who’d been in on the honey-fugling.
The great banking house of JP Morgan had the president on a “preferred list” by which the bank’s influential friends were given a chance to buy stock at half price. Shall we say, they made out like bandits?
Today the term bankster perfectly fits Bernard Madoff, whose crooked Ponzi scheme lost $50 billion of what the trade calls OPM - other people’s money - invested with him.
…
“prestidigitation, double-shuffling, honey-fugling, hornswoggling and skullduggery”
Ripley’s ‘Believe-it-or-not’? It is some how heartening to hear that incredulous professors were trying to call the authorities’ attention to Wall Street scam operations back in the 1920s as well as in the recent episode.
November 23, 2010 It’s not the Great Recession, It’s the Great Bank Robbery
Economists: The Unholy Priests of the Banksters
by Gabriel Donohoe
Global Research, November 3, 2010
“Political Economists,” according to Stephen Zarlenga in The Lost Science Of Money, “became the priesthood of the new Bank aristocracy, often serving as a propaganda apparatus to whitewash the monetary power structure. They put forward false ideas and smoke screens on the nature of money, primitive concepts that help entrench the bankers.”
Zarlenga blames the wreckage of the world economy on “the financial establishment and their economists” and describes the latter as being the mouthpieces of the ‘Money Power’. The reason why the corrupt system of modern banking has endured for so long despite its abysmal performance is because professional economists almost never point the finger at the banksters nor do they ever challenge the fraudulence of private, debt-based money creation or the outrageous deceit of fractional reserve lending.
Economists are schooled in bank-funded university economics departments where they are thoroughly indoctrinated in monetary theories. The Money Power ensures that economists are methodically trained in economic language and thought and are programmed to spout the official, approved version. Manipulation is the name of the game and contentious issues are ignored or distorted. Proper evaluation of the history and function of banking is never allowed because that would throw up some very unsettling truths. Zarlenga compares political economists to medieval doctors “who theorized on how the body worked, but never dared to dissect the body and find out what was actually happening.”
…
So we should add them to the actuaries, appraisers, accountants, brokers, budget analysts, bond raters, etc. who had to lie to benefit those raking it in to keep their jobs?
If you look at one field at a time, you miss the big picture.
“Theodoric of York…….Medieval Economist”
“Maybe we were wrong about the New paradigm…..that financial chicanery shouldn’t be a growth industry…..Maybe manufacturing is important, and that a strong Middle Class creates stability, and is why we are different than the Banana Republics……..
Naaaaaah…….Time for some bloodletting”
True dat. It takes a much larger village than the economists’ camp to keep Wall Street scams afloat.
Can we do a “War on Banksters” instead of a “War on Terror”? The terror war is getting old and we never seem to get our hands on the “evil-doers”, plus we are sick of taking our shoes off.
Osama Ben Bernanke?
“Osama Ben Bernanke?”
Expect Bernanks to call it quits soon…he needs some lead time to get out of town…not like he’s got Balls of Steel or anything.
Goldman bin Sachs
J P bin Morgan
From the article:
“When asked about a single cause of severe econonomic depressions, Dr. Friedman responded:
‘I know of no severe depression, in any country or in any time, that was not accompanied by a sharp decline in the stock of money, and equally of no sharp decline in the stock of money that was not accompanied by a severe depression.’”
Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
This time its different, Silly.
What if that decline in the stock of money is actually a decline in the stock of future money? i.e. The debt that is so large that no amount of future labor will pay off that debt? The “sharp” part comes in when everybody realizes it in one moment of clarity, and subsequently go into a panic.
If a debt is so large that no amount of future labor will pay off that debt then that means the debt doesn’t get paid off.
This is a no-brainer of a statement that has dire consequences for those who are are on the wrong end of this debt.
But for those who are NOT on the wrong end of this debt but are instead are at the correct end of other debt that WILL be paid off then the consequences will not be dire at all because as the money that is associated with the bad debt gets destroyed the money that is associated with the good debt will increase in its buying power.
The trick for the investor is determining which debt will get destroyed and which debt will survive destruction.
But the problem is the bad debts now are being monetized in full on the backs of the taxpayers.
But the problem is the bad debts now are being monetized in full on the backs of the taxpayers.
Or does that make those the good debts?
That sounds pretty stupid to me. The money stock was the same before and after. The amount in circulation shifted as people saved more and did not put it into circulation.
Printing more money just devalues the current stock of money.
Another moron. Oh, that’s a redundancy Moronic Economist.
Perhaps Bernanke And Geithner Should Try Acting?
Politics / Central Banks Nov 20, 2010 - 06:49 AM
By: Richard_J_Greene
When Ronald Reagan became President of the United States some people were surprised that an actor could reach such a high level of government service. Do you think maybe it could work in reverse and that these two in government “service”, Ben Bernanke and Timothy Geithner, could make it in the acting business? They certainly have had some on the job training and I guess you could say their ongoing screen tests have passed with flying colors.
Most recently, Geithner stated, “It is very important for people to understand that the United States of America and no country around the world can devalue their way to prosperity, to (be) competitive” and “It is not a viable strategy and we will not engage in it.” His ability to voice these words with a straight face, admittedly, was most impressive yet the fact that the Federal Reserve has been employing this strategy for the past 97 years with the American people remaining oblivious, take a little away from his performance. Apparently Americans believe professional wrestling is the real deal also. Yet Geithner has every reason to remain optimistic because if the American people ever wise up Geithner’s performance before Chinese college students should still give him hope. When Geithner proclaimed in a speech to Chinese university students that the US believes in a strong dollar policy they literally laughed him off the stage which bodes well for Geithner’s possibilities as a comedic actor. He could easily be the next Steve Martin or John Candy. Maybe even Abbott & Costello as Bernanke has shown outstanding ability as a straight man.
…
Pinoccio had a knack for keeping a straight face.
He certainly had a wooden expression.
He had a stiff upper lip as well.
The nose made for a real “poker” face.
Geithner could star in “Elf 2.”
Numbers don’t add up to housing recovery
Three reports issued Monday paint a grim picture of the Chicago area’s foreclosure crisis
By Mary Ellen Podmolik, Tribune reporter
8:05 p.m. CST, November 22, 2010
Three reports issued Monday paint a grim picture of the Chicago area’s foreclosure crisis and signal that the local housing market’s recovery continues to bump along the bottom.
The uncertainty is likely to become more evident Tuesday, when the Illinois Association of Realtors reports existing-home sales for October. Preliminary figures show that sales of single-family homes and condos in the Chicago area fell about 14 percent in October from September, and that sales of distressed properties fell more than 22 percent from the previous month, according to data from the Chicago Association of Realtors.
Given the current sales volume, it would take the Chicago area 16 months to sell the traditional and distressed inventory on the market. That doesn’t include the so-called shadow inventory of homes with delinquent mortgages, those in foreclosure and homes that have been repossessed by banks but have not been listed for sale.
“The picture is just a mess,” said Geoffrey Hewings, director of the University of Illinois’ regional economic applications laboratory. “The next few months are not going to be good.”
…
The September decline in sales here was indeed large, and while those numbers are for the metro area they were slightly larger for the city proper. The gap between the prices of the distressed sales and the prices on the regular sales seems to still be growing.
Locally there’s this stubborn belief that distressed sales still don’t count as comps. This is especially humorous to observe in the condos - where one unit might sell after foreclosure for a low price but all the remaining for sale units miraculously maintain their “values”. Once that’s finally broken prices should be ready to move again - towards normalization that is.
Locally there’s this stubborn belief that distressed sales still don’t count as comps.
This is a big reason I track the market so closely - so I have my own comps to provide to anyone involved from the listing agents and sellers to the appraisor (when the time comes). I will not rely on agents to cherry-pick for me.
“Locally there’s this stubborn belief that distressed sales still don’t count as comps.”
Makes sense to me, as the REIC obviously wants everyone to continue believing that ‘real estate always goes up,’ in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
PB
I think this comment got lost in posting.
There seems to be an MLS switch-a-thon going on if there are county and regional board MLS’s, that they can “toggle” properties back and forth from, to hide DOM, REO’s, price reductions, and misc. redos. San Diego might have one as well. This a new mo by the thugs. I’ve caught some great tries (in hiding DOM’s and REO’s) but my notebook caught them.
REO’s usually are hidden by an Asset Management or R E Broker name. Sometimes I see a known REO, not even disclosed as such.
“This is a big reason I track the market so closely…”
What data source do you use to get past the REIC’s upwardly biased statistics?
PB
Local Boards MLS and County MLS (So Ca)have had listings being flipped back and forth to avoid disclosure of DOM. Big game. They are hiding REO’s this way too.
I set up a notebook, and print out homes of interest, tracking them, so when they disappear and come back on I have a reference. It’s got price declines, DOM games, and so forth. It’s a micro game imho.
“I set up a notebook, and print out homes of interest, tracking them, so when they disappear and come back on I have a reference. It’s got price declines, DOM games, and so forth. It’s a micro game imho.”
I’ve thought about doing something along these lines. Trying to figure out how much of the local market I want to ‘bite off’ in my research. It might be worth the effort from here going forward, as all indications suggest the shadow inventory tsunami is beginning to overwhelm efforts to hide elephants under rugs…
I thought Redfin or Ziprealty already did that, but I may be wrong.
“I set up a notebook, and print out homes of interest, tracking them, so when they disappear and come back on I have a reference. It’s got price declines, DOM games, and so forth. It’s a micro game imho.”
Similar set-up here. I use a 4″ 3-ring binder. I pull a lot of info from the county’s Recorder of Deeds web site. I also use the assessors web site and the GIS system.
Kim-
You’re a smart lady. I’ve sat in classes that teach “cherry picking”, and the majority of Agents have the deer in the headlight look. *Add role playing and overcoming objectives, and I needed a puke bag. Oh, and they truly don’t appreciate/like Engineers (analytical mind). I’m married to an EE.
*Evidently, they can’t rely on their critical thinking skills.
Silicone boobs trumps critical thinking at any time.
“Overcoming objectives”?
Objections?
Silicone wins over silicon?
See, I told ya.
Locally there’s this stubborn belief that distressed sales still don’t count as comps ??
Thats because it is harder to track (more time invested) and pertinent details about the sale cannot be obtained such as, what improvements (or lack there-of) have been made to the property or were there any seller concessions that are not reflected in the price such as, $10,000. credit towards closing costs or repairs…
The appraisers depend almost exclusively on data from the local MLS for their information because pertinent information is provided within the listing or they can call the parties (brokers) directly and be able to ask questions about the sale….
It is so interesting that the housing market transactions seem consist of this: “How much does this place cost?” “How much ya got?”
When dealing with SFH of varying vintage and construction it probably is a bit tricky. But, I primarily follow condoze and in the case of new construction especially it’s puzzling that the pricing connection isn’t made more often.
There are cases where units in the same building, and the same tier have wildly disparate pricing. Sure, the FB can rip out the kitchen - but come on! Some of the deltas are downright laughable. Who would pay $200k more just to avoid replacing the kitchen fixtures - heck, must yups seem to remodel in any case?!
“Locally there’s this stubborn belief that distressed sales still don’t count as comps.”
LOL, wait til these folks try to refi
FYI, 40+ months, with month 1 in November 2010, would get us out to at least the end of February 2014, shortly after the 2014 Souper Bowl.
Fitch: Shadow Inventory Will Take 40+ Months To Clear
in News > Mortgage Servicing
by John Clapp on Thursday 04 November 2010
The non-agency shadow inventory will take more than 40 months to clear, according to projections from Fitch Ratings. The ratings firm pegs the shadow inventory for non-agency residential mortgage-backed security (RMBS) loans at 1.5 million. For all loans, the total is closer to 7 million.
Fitch - which defines shadow inventory as the total number of delinquent loans, foreclosures and bank-owned properties - notes that fallout from foreclosure affidavit defects will elongate liquidation timelines and cause further buildup.
“Due to the heightened scrutiny surrounding the documentation in judicial-foreclosure states, it is expected that the rate of completed foreclosures will further slow notably in those areas,” Fitch analysts Grant Bailey, Diane Pendley and Rui Pereira write in an RMBS report. “However, the timelines for both judicial and nonjudicial foreclosures could be affected as servicers and regulators reassess procedures.”
…
‘Shadow’ supply of 2.1 million homes potentially looms
November 22, 2010 | 2:20 pm
A supply of 2.1 million homes poised for foreclosure or delinquency potentially looms over the nation’s housing market, according to data released Monday.
This “shadow inventory” of residential real estate — in which the property is either in foreclosure, has a loan 90 days past due or has been taken back by a lender and is not listed for sale — stood at an eight-month supply at the end of August, according to the Santa Ana mortgage research firm CoreLogic, which released the data. That was an increase from 1.9 million, a five-month supply, a year earlier.
The total number of U.S. properties listed for sale at the end of August plus the unlisted shadow inventory was 6.3 million, representing a 23-month supply of homes, according to CoreLogic, more than three times the amount considered healthy by economists.
“The weak demand for housing is significantly increasing the risk of further price declines in the housing market,” CoreLogic chief economist Mark Fleming said. “This is being exacerbated by a significant and growing shadow inventory that is likely to persist for some time.”
…
Who will we have to bail out next? Britain pays out billions as Ireland implodes
By James Chapman
Last updated at 7:32 AM on 23rd November 2010
* Irish PM refuses to stand down but WILL call New Year election
* George Osborne faces dissent from his own back benches
* Euro sinks as bailout fails to ease fears about the debt contagion
* Banking shares crash as Irish coalition government implodes
* Demonstrators take to the streets of Dublin and clash with police
Britain is in danger of being sucked into yet more multi-billion-pound EU rescue packages as the Irish bailout threatens to spiral out of control.
Under the terms of a deal signed by Alistair Darling after Labour lost the May election, the UK can be required to offer guarantees to other EU countries until 2013.
So if the chaos continues to spread through Europe, we could have to bankroll other ‘basket-case’ economies such as Portugal and even Spain.
…
I hope Ireland will do as Iceland did. It’s not too late. Tell the EU to go and shove it. Then Britsh, German, French and US banks will be stuck with the bad debt. Maybe the outrage level in those countries will hit flood stage and other governments will be forced to throw the banksters under the bus….wishful thinking…
Got Gold?
I though that in the Iceland “incident” the governments of Germany, Britain, etc. bailed out their own banks who had Iceland bonds and then expected Iceland to pay them back. Iceland basically said that they had not agreed to pay them back and didn’t feel like it.
At least, that is how I remember it.
This time, they are making sure that Ireland agrees to the bail out ahead of time by making it a restructuring and giving the rescuers the ability to dictate austerity measures going forward. As near as I can tell, Ireland has already blinked when it comes to the Iceland option, mostly because the real Iceland option was never on the table.
Iceland has their own currency, unlike Ireland.
Ireland could print their own currency. It starts with a printer…
But Iceland didn’t have to go to the printer. They may have. I haven’t checked recently, but they didn’t have to. What they did was default - they refused to pay back the governments that bailed out their own banks who held Iceland debt. That is a default. And just fine as the other governments didn’t get Iceland to promise to pay before they did their own bailouts.
The Krona went from 50 to 180 per USD.
That would mean an increase in the number of Krona’s or a decrease in USD, right?
Either way it makes imports more expensive and exports cheaper which is something that can’t happen in Ireland.
There are a lot of ways to drown: the ocean, a lake, a deep puddle, the bathtub, etc.
But there is a difference. And telling everyone that you aren’t paying your debt is different than purposefully deflating your currency so you can pay it back with (insert currency here) that are worth much less. You might get to the currency deflation anyway, and you are sure going to find it harder to borrow after either event, but they are different.
For example, defaulting is more honest.
I am proposing that Ireland default THEN print their own money to trade within the country. If they need to import anything, they could barter for it. Straight exports would bring in outside currency which could be exchanged for local money and vice-versa for foreign money necessary for import purchases. No banks, just money changing centers.
Well since the banks had greater losses that the total reserves of the central bank, there wasn’t much real choice.
If they need to import anything? That’s a laugh. They have to import everything except forpotatoes, root vegetables and whiskey.
Hope there’s not another potato famine.
I wonder how the hell they got that $51 billion trade surplus in 2009….
Right, that’s what Iceland did. Basically they said what our banks do is not our problem. If you were dumb enough to lend them money its your problem.
Ireland foolishly agreed to back their banks, that’s why they’re in trouble now. Conceivably the new government could go back on that promise. It would cause some disruptions in the financial markets but Ireland wouldn’t be any worse off than they are now. It would also set in motion a very important learning process; don’t loan out money just because you think the taxpayer will bail you out.
“Iceland basically said that they had not agreed to pay them back and didn’t feel like it.”
LOL. I like it.
Iceland has its own currency, the Krona (not to be confused with Hawaiian coffee). The Euro-ties of Ireland makes them dance to the strings of new masters.
During WWII Churchill was concerned about typos in important military messages, and therefore insisted that Iceland and Ireland be spelled thusly in official telegrams:
Iceland(C)
Ireland(R)
During WWII Churchill was concerned about typos in important military messages, and therefore insisted that Iceland and Ireland be spelled thusly in official telegrams:
Iceland(C)
Ireland(R)
That Winston. Always a step ahead.
“Got Gold?”
Gold is for cash hating nutjobs, besides look at how it is suffering from negative deflation!
Trust in the Fed, they know what they are doing.
“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident.”
I do respect the assembled knowledge and opinions of the various members of this community. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why so many are skeptical of gold as true money. I do believe many “professional” managers are naturally opposed to gold as it runs contrary to sound investment philosophy - no earnings, it also does not take an investment guru charging big fees to buy a bunch of coins or shares of GLD. I only take comfort that with so many disbelievers there is no way gold is in “bubble” territory.
I do believe many “professional” managers are naturally opposed to gold as it runs contrary to sound investment philosophy - no earnings, it also does not take an investment guru charging big fees to buy a bunch of coins or shares of GLD. I only take comfort that with so many disbelievers there is no way gold is in “bubble” territory.
Absolutely, except that GLD is only for short-term holding. If you have read the prospectus and aren’t afraid that there may be marshmallows in the vaults instead of gold, you aren’t paying attention.
I would have thought that someone who was a plan fiduciary for retirement funds would not be trying to buy a failed start-up ski resort, but what do I know.
Tamarack is a “planned destination ski/summer resort” about 2 hours drive north from Boise. It was a pie-in-the-sky concept dreamed up by John-Pierre Buttplug.
Hutcheson, who oversees pensions and other retirement investment plans, formed Green Valley Holdings in August with Larry Givens, owner of Givens Construction, a Boise-based homebuilding and remodeling company, according to records filed with the Secretary of State.
Hutcheson, 40, said he and his partners have no experience in the ski and resort business but intend to hire enough people who do to help turn around the resort and boost the local economy in towns like Donnelly and Cascade that have struggled since the shutdown……
Professionally, Hutcheson describes himself on websites and in articles as an independent fiduciary, or a consultant hired to provide advice on pension plans, endowments and other institutional investments. In July, he testified before Congress on ways to protect retirement investments and pension funds.
It isn’t clear to me where the money is coming from. Is it Hutchenson’s own cash, or fund money he manages?
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/11/22/1427957/new-company-makes-40-million-bid.html
Maybe he’ll buy Yellowstone Club and Bitterroot Resort too.
I always thought that if you set out to design the absolute worst business model you could devise, you would likely end up with a ski resort operation.
Huge capital investment, extremenly dependent on mother nature, very short revenue period, extremely cyclical, highly subject to litigation etc, etc. Throw in not being close to a major population center (sorry Boise) and it seems like a good way to make a small fortune (out of a large one.)
There are a number of ski areas around Spokane, and every one has gone bankrupt once or twice.
What’s worse, the Stowe Mountain Resort in Stowe, VT is owned by…
…AIG.
I thought it was owned by Maria von Trapp’s family.
That’s the Trapp Family Lodge. Which is still owned by the “Sound of Music” family.
Throw in the fact of Tamarack’s competition.
There’s a decent ski resort right in Boise - Bogus Basin.
There’s already a better ski resort a few miles from Tamarack - Brundage.
There’s already a world-class destination ski resort for those wanting to fly into Idaho - Sun Valley.
“It isn’t clear to me where the money is coming from. Is it Hutchenson’s own cash, or fund money he manages?”
Is this a trick question? Do you really think this guy would ever use his own money for anything?
As for the ski resort, more proof the elite do not live in the same world as everyone else. It may or may not work. But it’s still incredibly stupid in this current economic situation.
korean war,
we have 28,000 troops there and we are committed to supporting our ally.
we are getting sucked into ww3 to aid a country that won’t allow us to sell them cars.
obamma must have forgot to apologize to someone.
Bah, as long as it doesn’t interfere with Black Friday we’re all good.
We can’t even run our own Country and enforce the Rule of Law and
we think we can Control this big old World .
Yea, we are letting the mexicans overrun our country and Kicking our $sses. And them N. Koreans are a helluva lot tougher than the mexicans.
How do they compare with Afghans (note Afghansitan’s nick name: “Graveyard of empires”)?
Afghans themselves aren’t the problem. It’s the rough terrain of the country itself.
And I’m a little young to know this for sure, but I thought that it wasn’t the Afghans who turned back the Soviets, it was the Afghans-with-American-help, which is something quite different.
?
The Brits had a few problems in those mountains, too.
The Russians were kicking azz in Afghanistan, as long as they could fly their Mi-24s.
Things changed when the “Stinger” AA missiles started zapping the Mi-24s.
ISTR that the mujahadin actually prefered the blowpipe to the stinger.
The Stingers still made a serious contribution to changing the game.
Oxide,
Actually, it was American Assets, Osama bin Laden and the Taliban that ran the Soviets back out of Chechnya. And Dan Rather. Don’t forget Dan Rather.
The US State Department financed the Tora Bora cave complex (which ObL then developed as a headquarters,) AND set up the Madrassa school system to ensure a whole generation of committed young fighters against Soviet attempts to…wait for it…control the oil supply from the Caspian down to Oman via a pipeline through Afghanistan.
Funny how that worked out.
Don’t know about cars but the US runs a nice protection racket in Asia. Read Russ Winter’s blog for a full explanation but basically the way it works is that US provides security in return for the countries in the region (South Korea, Japan, Taiwan) buying copious amounts of US debt which, as we all know, they have no hopes of redeeming.
I was just mentioning this to my carpool this morning.
Didn’t WWII help pull the US out of the depression?
The plan ??
WWIII takes all Korean manufacturing off line. The dollar goes through the roof. Banksters in the US full of dollars then buy up the pieces of the collapsing Asian economies. US manufacturing increases as asian competition is taken off line. Asian countries borrow large amounts to rebuild their countries.
You do know that SEA makes the majority of computer chips?
“we are getting sucked into ww3 to aid a country that won’t allow us to sell them cars.”
You could look at it as Noko being China’s proxy and SoKo being the US proxy. I vote we cede SoKo to China. Screw Hyundai.
Absolutely this is a proxy situation. It’s been a while since the big boys had the gumption to go head to head.
Didn’t we discuss a war breaking out someplace last week?
Sounds like we may have found a way out of Afghanistan & Iraq.
How does the Korean kerfuffle get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan?
It gives a great reason to pull troops out of The Middle East and move them to Korea. (we had no choice, N Korea was invading!)
Plus, Americans can only pay attention to one war at a time.
Well uh… seems nobody ever “shut-off” the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan yet, either!
We might end up with five or six wars all on the back burner one day.
I rarely agree with you, Cobalt, but I think you’re on the money here. We’ll keep collecting conflicts until we’re so stretched thin we’re worthless in any theater. Maybe then Mexico will decide to annex southern california, arizona, and texas.
Don’t give Washington any ideas…..
Like keeping a half dozen little “police actions/interventions” going, that can be pulled off the burner when they need a crisis.
Worked for Clinton (cruise missile attacks whenever the talk about stained Gap dresses was drawing too much attention).
“Maybe then Mexico will decide to annex southern california, arizona, and texas.”
Silly me, I thought they already did.
Troop pull out of Iraq is proceeding on schedule.
Google it.
I meant officially. They already have “La Raza” in place in most of those areas. If they take Los Angles, they’ll have 40% of the world’s supply of plastic surgeons.
WHAT WOULD WE DO?
obamma must have forgot to apologize to someone ??
From what I heard, Obama refused to “compromise” on a trade agreement that the SK already agreed to…In other words, he stood his ground…
SK and USA are currently conducting massive war games.
This is thought to be the cause in conjunction with Pyongyang statement “… to launch additional strikes, and accused South Korea and the United States of planning to invade North Korea…” in reference to the joint Hoguk military exercises currently under way in different locations across South Korea.
N&S Korea are still technically at war. Some non-communist North Koreans are eating grass soup while their Royal Communist Tyrants develop expensive nuke weaponry. Meanwhile, we pick up the South Korean defense tab while UN soldiers are out banging refugee chicks.
That United Nations thang is working out just dandy.
As long as they keep them New-cue-Lor missiles away from Wall Street…
Why would they need them? They already have “weapons of mass financial destruction.”
It’s a “police action” not a war.
“police action” is cheaper. no VA bennies that way.
“police action” is cheaper. no VA bennies that way.
It is my understanding that Korean War vets did get the full war bennies of the GI Bill. My father sure did.
“It is my understanding that Korean War vets did get the full war bennies of the GI Bill. My father sure did.”
Yep. 3 years in Kum Chee land and 50 years of VA benefits for “serving.” The math is even better than The Socialist inSecurity scheme. The VA should be in as good a shape as the SS administration when 9 years of Iraq/Afghanistan vets start hitting it with various desert disorders.
Picture Osama Bin Nakee in camo shovelling greenbacks out of a AH-1W Super Cobra.
It is war. The current military status of the Koreas is “a cease fire.”
World clashes in war, finances, weather patterns, commodities; no black swan here!
There has never been a better time to hide your dollars under the mattress!
There has never been a better time for denial.
There has never been a better time for real money.
I’m starting to replenish my down payment fund and am wondering when to actually start thinking about looking.
1. How long do people think it will take to flush out this foreclosure and bank mess? i.e. Do we have any bottom callers in the house?
2. When home prices really do bottom out — I don’t mean rock bottom, I mean stabilize ± 7% — how long are they expected to bounce along the bottom?
3. I’m guessing a good time would be two years from now, especially in my area, Where The Jobs Are. Besides, I want to wait until after Obama is re-elected. I don’t want to emigrate to Canada to escape Sister Sarah..
I’m in the same boat. I’ve, more or less, decided that I’m holding out until the interest rates go above 7%. If that never happens we are in trouble.
I know that in my area, Boston Suburbs, we aren’t close to bottom. I was playing on ZipRealty and Craigslist last week and found two places for sale and one for rent in the same complex. According to assessments, they were about the same value. To buy a “glorious two bedroom 1 1/2 bath condo” with no down payment came to $3100 month with taxes and condo fees. The rental price was $1800 a month. I passed this information to the wife and B-I-L, thinking they too would find it absurd. The B-I-L responded with an email informing me that it was only a bad idea to buy if I expected prices to go down as he made six figures on his condo in 4 years. I held my tongue.
Oops, I meant house prices waffling within ± 7%, which IMO is a bounce along the bottom.
Although, interest rates at 7% would drop us down to the boucing bottom, and FAST. Ditto for requiring a 10% down payment.
I do find it amusing that many people tend to regard a 7 % mortgage interest as some sort of crazy insane high rate from the Carter administration. In reality when I bought in 1999 my mortgage was in the 7 % range, and that wasn’t an unusual rate for a 30 yr FRM with 20% down. So yes, I agree that since insane high prices followed crazy low rates, sane rates just might bring sane prices. That said, there is a large percentage of the population and therefore politicians which don’t want to see either, so it could take a while.
A lot of people are stuck paying 7% because they cant refinance, bummer.A good stimulous package would help address that problem and free up some money for people to spend at walmart.
“A lot of people are stuck paying 7% because they cant refinance, bummer.A good stimulous package would help address that problem and free up some money for people to spend at walmart.”
The so called “August Surprise”?
Arizona dude - only if they agreed to a 7 % mortgage. Just about anybody who got a mortgage as I did when the 30yr FRMs were were around 7 % could have refinanced to a much lower fixed rate. So what’s left are those people who agreed to ARMs with some pretty ugly premiums over the index rate. For the most part we’re talking about people whose credit was so bad that they had no business buying a house at that time, or so credulous that they fell for the “You can just refinance next year,” line.
I have a news article from the early 2000s, which stated that mortgage rates at 7% were very low and would not last. This was from the paper’s real estate section.
Ponder the implications.
My very first mortgage back in 1989 had a 10.5% interest rate. I thought that was a good deal because a year earlier mortgage rates were in the 13% range. And that was after eight years of Saint Ronnie. Hell, I remember pulling 7% interest on my checking account back in the mid-80s.
Remember when you could make money by not
paying your taxes on time and using the float?
1969, I bought a piece of property in Mammoth Lakes thinking that someday, in the far far distant future, I would build and retire there. I was thrilled to get a subsidized interest rate from the owner…8.5%
!983, bought my first “real” house. 1st mortgage, 10.2%. Second was 14%. (With 25% down.) Try servicing a five-figure monthly nut on a six-figure house. I learned the meaning of FB in a big hurry when Corporatamerica began downsizing its first generation of female middle management….
“glorious two bedroom 1 1/2 bath condo” with no down payment came to $3100 month with taxes and condo fees. The rental price was $1800 a month.
$1800 a month means that the condo price should be ~$200K.
$3100 a month means that the condo price IS uspwards of $400K.
What is this, 2005?
And tell your B-I-L to knock it off with the schadenfreude, and if $400K is such a great price, then why doesn’t he use his windfall — gained through his “hard work” no doubt — to buy more condos and sell them for a 6-figure profit? Dare him. Double-dog DARE him.
Dang….you’re right. I should have said “You buy it and I’ll rent it from you at 1800.” I never think of these things.
hobo:
that sounds like the almost dark luzzyrie kondos here in long island city …they even state this stupid fact on their website (rental $2200 mo)…..but they do have a nice view of Manhattan
===================================
came to $3100 month with taxes and condo fees. The rental price was $1800 a month. I
Keep in mind that the bottom is going to vary not just by geographic area, but also by market segment. Certainly the low end has fallen MUCH more quickly than the mid to upper end in most areas. I think that in my, working class neighborhood we’re actually close to bottom, at leat in terms of actual sale prices and not wishful listing prices. And in places and market segments where there is now a huge oversupply*, the bottom may be very low indeed. I think that real prices will bounce along within the ± 7% range for AT LEAST 5 years, and perhaps a decade or more, although since prices tend to lag, a period of abrupt very high inflation could take them out of that range.
*I’m thinking of condos in Florida or Las Vegas, although SFHs in older working class neighborhods of the rust belt probably also qualify.
“until after Obama”
quack quack
Two time periods:
B.O. Before Obama
A.D. After Denial
As there are many parallels with the S&L disaster, I would use that a rough guideline. That was ~ 6 years.
But at least another year is certain. If you happen to miss the bottom, you will still be fine by being on the early side of the upswing.
Deposition: Countrywide Never Sent Mortgage Notes to Trust; Mortgage-Backed Securities in Question
By: David Dayen Sunday November 21, 2010 12:01 pm
Christine at Foreclosure Industry gives her 10 reasons why the MERS problem cannot be fixed by legislation, and it’s a pretty good list. I would add that it’s simply not the only problem, or even the biggest problem, that the banks have. Of far bigger importance is the possibility that the trustees for the mortgage-backed securities they created never secured the assets from the originators. If the notes never transferred to the trust, there’s no way to retroactively do that now; the trusts are governed by very specific pooling at servicing agreements that for the most part give the trust 90 days to transfer all the required assets. You cannot transfer the loan after it’s slipped into default, 3 or 4 years after setting up the trust. It violates the laws and contracts under which the investors purchased the securities.
Now we have documented evidence, beyond anecdote, that Countrywide, one of the largest subprime lenders, which securitized almost all of the loans they made, never sent the notes to the trust. In a deposition provided to a US Bankruptcy Court in the District of New Jersey, Linda DeMartini, a supervisor for Bank of America Home Loans (BofA bought Countrywide in 2008), admitted that the original notes never transferred from Countrywide into the trusts.
The new allonge was signed by Sharon Mason, Vice President of Countrywide Home Loans, Inc., in the Bankruptcy Risk Litigation Management Department. Linda DeMartini, a supervisor and operational team leader for the Litigation Management Department for BAC Home Loans Servicing L.P. (“BAC Servicing” V testified that the new allonge was prepared in anticipation of this litigation, and that it was signed several weeks before the trial by Sharon Mason.)
As to the location of the note, Ms. DeMartini testified that to her knowledge, the original note never left the possession of Countrywide, and that the original note appears to have been transferred to Countrywide’s foreclosure unit, as evidenced by internal FedEx tracking numbers. She also confirmed that the new allonge had not been attached or otherwise affixed to the note. She testified further that it was customary for Countrywide to maintain possession of the original note and related loan documents.
This is an enormous deal. If Countrywide never gave up possession of the note, then the trust has no standing to foreclose whatsoever. It also means that investors in the MBS don’t actually have securities backed by mortgages. The “allonge” appears to be an effort to clear up this situation, and it was signed years after the fact, well past the deadline of the pooling and servicing agreement, and not even affixed to the note as required by law.
This is a deposition from one supervisor, but it could mean that all mortgage pools that Countrywide sold are suspect. That would amount to perhaps hundreds of billions of dollars in MBS. And the law appears to be air-tight on this, and not governed by the Constitution but New York trust law and the specifics of the pooling and servicing agreement.
Now, tell me again how the banks are planning to get out of this.
“Countrywide Never Sent Mortgage Notes to Trust; Mortgage-Backed Securities in Question”
This is an awesome development! Does anyone have an estimate of how much robo-signing would be required to forge all the documents that might be missing?
And did they get an investment bank involved in the securitization/selling of the bonds and if so did that investment bank have any obligation anywhere along the line to do due diligence about the contents of the trust (like when they did their SEC filings).
Spectacular doesn’t even begin to cover the possibilities of this. I told you guys to be patient.
Why would do something like this - not transfer to the trust?
Seems like a paperwork kind of thing. What benefit would Countrywide have gotten from not doing it?
As my contracts professor once said, if you think something is insignificant, keep adding zeros to it until you feel better.
That is to say, if it seems trivial to do it once, think about doing it hundreds of thousands of times. Since everyone was content to behave as IF the legal requirements had been met, they never bothered. And then the bottom fell out. Oops.
Like I’ve said before, nobody ever reads the maintenance logs until AFTER the plane goes down.
This is an enormous deal. If Countrywide never gave up possession of the note, then the trust has no standing to foreclose whatsoever. It also means that investors in the MBS don’t actually have securities backed by mortgages. The “allonge” appears to be an effort to clear up this situation, and it was signed years after the fact, well past the deadline of the pooling and servicing agreement, and not even affixed to the note as required by law.
This is a deposition from one supervisor, but it could mean that all mortgage pools that Countrywide sold are suspect. That would amount to perhaps hundreds of billions of dollars in MBS. And the law appears to be air-tight on this, and not governed by the Constitution but New York trust law and the specifics of the pooling and servicing agreement.
Now, tell me again how the banks are planning to get out of this.
I smell the smoke of a smoking gun.
I see the spatter from a gaping head wound to go with your smoke from the smoking gun.
I used to call it the smoking memo, but that was only once and we couldn’t figure out how to get a copy of it legally (this was a piece of paper dumped in a box that someone’s employee had taken with him from a previous employer), so it didn’t help much.
Then again, this isn’t so much a smoking memo but a smoking empty paper trail.
By the way, these standards may vay wildly from originator to originator. Catching Countrywide doesn’t mean they all did it. But they might have….
There is an old saying, “The leader sets the pace.”
I figured the states would be going after the banks. After all how much did the banks stiff states by not paying real estate transfer fees?
Not to mention local governments. I think a lot of them also charge fees on real estate transfers.
Shirking a tax is the pinnacle of virtue in AynRandAmerica.
Taxes are for mouth-breathers!
Does this mean that BAC’s purchase of Countrywide was a good investment as Countrywide still owns all of these MBS? I’m sure the lawyers will have something to say on this.
It CERTAINLY means that they haven’t set aside enough money for legal council.
It depends, measton. If BaC owns Countrywide, and Countryside didn’t physically pass it up the food chain like they thought, then Countrywide, ie BaC, now owns a cubic buttload of foreclosing debt, backed up with abandoned and rotting collateral. This is worse than Jarndyce vs. Jarndyce…
Speculation is that BoA is going down. Hard. That this is the final straw.
This could also come back to bite Mozilo. Even though he skated earlier problems by just paying a huge fine, this brings whole new deal to his door.
Where is this story from? I Googled on big chunks of the text but came up empty..Memeorandum and Firedoglake supposedly had it but all I got was a list of breaking stories.
Ah, found it though the byline..
http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/11/21/deposition-countrywide-never-sent-mortgage-notes-to-trust-mortgage-backed-securities-in-question/
David Dayen’s FireDogLake coverage of this issue has been excellent.
Countrywide Never Sent Mortgage Notes to Trust…..It violates the laws and contracts under which the investors purchased the securities….And the law appears to be air-tight on this,
Do or will laws still apply to these entities?
Wow.
Now how long before they find a way to blame this on the subprime borrowers? Next week?
Lawmaker Questions Legal Fees for Ex-Execs at Fannie, Freddie. November 22, 2010, 5:53 PM ET.
At a hearing last week of the Financial Services Committee, Mr. DeMarco said that money has been advanced to several former executives to help pay for legal representation, but his testimony was cut off before he had provided much detail.
In the letter, the lawmaker said he wants disclosure of legal expenses for the defense of all former top Fannie and Freddie executives for pending class action, shareholder or other law suits. It names former Fannie executives Franklin Raines, Timothy Howard and Leanne Spencer, all of whom were part of the entity’s senior leadership team during the accounting scandal that beset the mortgage giant in 2004.
A spokeswoman for the FHFA said the agency had received the letter and would respond shortly.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/11/22/lawmaker-questions-legal-fees-for-ex-execs-at-fannie-freddie/
HR3808- might be retroactive law pending that addresses the foreclosure
illegal transfers . (A couple of web sites are saying it has clauses in it that
would solve the problem for Banks : don’t know haven’t read it )
Not more than a couple of days after I said that the Fat Cats should be taxed 20% of their accumulated wealth of billions to pay down the
debt Warren Buffet said words in the news in essence saying : High end
people should pay higher taxes ,we have had it good ,trickle down economics hasn’t worked ,etc, etc.
While I admire Mr Buffet telling the truth ,he should of gone further and
said that the Government should go back and tax a Windfall retroactive
tax for a 10 to 15 year heist . It’s the heist that needs to come back to
the Government coffers .The Fat Cats of Industry and Banking left this
Country in ruins along with gutting out the job and tax base . If Mr Buffet
feels good about the Fat Cats of Industry throwing people into abject poverty by their acts in the last few decades by saying he is willing to pay higher taxes now ,who is he kidding ,they already got away with the heist .
While I admire Mr Buffet telling the truth ,he should of gone further and
said that the Government should go back and tax a Windfall retroactive
tax for a 10 to 15 year heist . It’s the heist that needs to come back to
the Government coffers
BINGO - Lost in GS wallowing about how they didn’t make that much money during the crash is the fact that they made money hand over fist before the crash. A retroactive windfall profits tax needs to be enacted.
Warren has said things like this before… He’s been saying for years that he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary!
Why wouldn’t he? How could he not? The law, his accountants, shareholders and BOD won’t let him.
Buffett just made 20 billion this year but you’ll pay more tax. He gave his to Gates’ foundation. Warren, get real! He’s been a suck up to Obama and didn’t have to get rid of his derivitives. Remember when he ‘helped’ the Governator in Ca. Said that Ca should get rid of Prop 13 protection. Buffett RIP.
News: M1 Tanks being sent to Afghanistan
Anyone ever seen “The Beast”? 1988 film about a soviet tank that gets lost in Afghanistan. Excellent film.
Rent it if you haven’t seen it.
I liked it. I’m just wondering how they GOT them there. Did the truck them through Pakistan? (difficult politically and from a security standpoint) Or did they Fly them in? (Technically quite difficult, although theoretically possible, I think)
You can fly an Abrams in a C-17 or TWO Abrams in a C-5.
ISTR that the range of those aircraft is GREATLY reduced however.
They fly from Germany to one of the former Russian republics with no vowels.
to one of the former Russian republics with no vowels.
We should ask them if they want to buy some vowels. We could print a bunch.
But there ARE vowels in Carjackistan.
In flight refueling.
n flight refueling.
One of my friends is a retired USAF F-15 pilot.
His wife once took a picture of his plane being refueled in flight. She was on a KC-135.
Pretty impressive maneuver, that in-flight refueling.
And we’re the best at it in the world.
Hospitals must smoke crack or something!
I had an accident last week and ended up at the ER. No ambulance needed.
I was there for about 3 hours; all they did was ensuring I didn’t suffer a concussion/stroke, cleaned the wounds, and stitched two cuts.
I got CT scans performed as well as some blood work done. I also received some morphine for the pain.
The hospital’s bill + doctor’s? almost 17k
Thankfully, I have insurance, but the amount is ridiculous.
You were probably one of the few that day at the ER who actually paid the bill.
Tha does seem high. When I had my gall bladder removed last year the total bill was something like 5-6K. Of course I had that done at an outpatient clinic(in and out in 3 hours)
Yup… a few have to pay everyone else’s bill
“Yup… a few have to pay everyone else’s bill”
This is one of the things I don`t understand about the Health care Bill. One of the arguments I heard was “we are paying for these people already” (the uninsured) So, if we were paying for them already and still are as Brett`s ER visit indicates. Why are health insurance rates going up on top of that?
Why are health insurance rates going up on top of that?
Because insurances companies can raise rates. It’s that simple.
“Because insurances companies can raise rates. It’s that simple.”
O.K. then why aren`t ER visits going down?
And because the non payers aren’t covered yet.
Why are health insurance rates going up on top of that?
———————————————————————
Them czars and death panels don’t work for scratch.
Don’t forget that parts of the Health Care LAW haven’t kicked in yet!
Geez, it’s as plain as day. Health insurance companies are making hay while the sun shines, just as the credit card companies did. Not because the LAW told them to, not yet. And if they raise rates high enough, not only do they get their nice profit now, they may foment some rebellion *cough*repeal*cough* against the Health Care LAW.
They need to be careful though; it could backfire if they overdo the greed. If there’s enough public outrage, Congress could sic the industry with a public option. And then watch out.
They need to be careful though; it could backfire if they overdo the greed. If there’s enough public outrage, Congress could sic the industry with a public option. And then watch out.
Watch the state of Vermont. Single payer’s a priority of Governor-Elect Shumlin. And there’s widespread support among the people of VT, including members of mine own family.
A non-profit single insurer is the way to go. The broader the risk pool, the better.
Private insurance will still stick around. I’m sure a majority of people who have insurance today would keep supplemental private insurance. Just like many medicare eligible patients have supplemental insurance.
The majority of persons covered under employer based health care are in “self funded medical plans” whereby the employer ultimately pays the costs of the employee’s health care based on actual costs incurred. The Third Party Administrator (TPA) generally takes a 14% or so upcharge on the actual costs incurred. Many TPA’s are also indemnity insurance providers. But, as a rule, only relatively small companies, say 150 employees or less buy indemnity plans. Individual coverage is also typically an indemnity plan.
The point being is that increases in health care “premiums” are generally more the result of excess utilization, new and more expensive medical procedures, and the refusal of the American public to take any responsibility for wellness than it is insurance companies just raising premiums to extract more profit. I’m not saying that insurance companies are without fault, but when we fuss about the increasing cost of health care, we need to look directly into the mirror.
Arguably this is part of the problem. It is effectively impossible to self-insure oneself because of the necessity to have an insurance company that is able to negotiate rates.
They have too much power… it’s kind of ridiculous there’s a two tier system: regular folks vs insurance companies.
In addition, I have no idea why rates are so high… how does a hospital come up with 17k in fees for such a short stay and limited services?
“how does a hospital come up with 17k in fees for such a short stay and limited services”
Because it can.
ding ding ding.
People can’t* really walk away from an ER or doctor’s office the way they would walk away from, say, a car dealership. The health insurance industry knows this and prices their services accordingly. If it’s not exactly free-market competition, then IMO the free market shouldn’t handle it, at least not without heavy regulation.
—————–
*Technically they can, and they do, every day. Our health care is already rationed, it’s self-rationed. The question is, “can” the American people just sit by and let their fellow man suffer in pain? Answer: probably yes. I guess as long as it’s the Great Unwashed Lazy Folks Who Choose Not To Buy Insurance who self-ration and suffer, that’s okay.
If they know you have money then get ready for the shaft.
“If it’s not exactly free-market competition, then IMO the free market shouldn’t handle it, at least not without heavy regulation.”
And that’s the problem, it’s not a free market. I can’t hang a shingle on my front door that says “In Colorado, Medicine Man”.
They have a monopoly. And there are a lot of people who feed at that trough.
Monopoly for them.
Free market for you.
+1 denquiry
Exactly.
Brett,
What is the insurance company rate for that $17K? I had some x-rays a few weeks ago and I think the rack rate was close to $1000. Insurance price was $90 and change.
They haven’t approved all charges yet; I don’t know for sure, but it’ll keep u posted.
just wait for obamacare to kick in.things will be better I’m sure.
if you are insured, you will always receive a EOB, explanation of benefits, from your insurance company itemizing the charges incurred, the undiscounted cost of each charge and the negotiated cost of each charge. Everyone should carefully review every EOB. It is a great primer on where medical care dollars go.
The uninsured have no advocate. The insured pay nowhere near the $17K.
It is really the uninsured that pay their bills that cover the cost for the uninsured that do not. Insurance companies, medicare, medicaid, Tri-Care etc. beat the actual rates down so far that they really do not subsidize the uninsured to any great extent.
You were probably paying everyone else’s bills too.
Your insurance probably paid half that amount.
The hospital writes off all the non payers 17k a pop. Those with cash get raked over the coals.
Insurance industry puts the fear of GOD into anyone thinking about not getting health insurance. Everyone wins??
Half? Less than that. The $90 vs. about $1000 I posted above was the total price allowed by the insurance company that the hospital agreed to in the reimbursement contract. I was still in my deductible amount, so that $90 is the whole thing, not a co-pay.
I saw the same. A friend had a baby a year ago and required his wife to be hospitalized for extra couple of days. The hospital bill was $13000, the insurance company was able to lower the bill to mere $2300. From that day on, I see doctors and hospitals as the root problem in this whole fiasco.
You’re kidding of course about Obama anything being less costly.
60% to 80% depending on the procedure is the norm.
No. It isn’t.
60% to 80% discount off of “rack rate”. I’ve been involved in corporate health plans for 20 years so have seen this first hand. Maybe different for Government health plans, but thats about right for private insurers.
I had a Carotid Enderectormy a few years back. Gross bill was rigth at $34K actual paid by the insurance company and me around $13K. 62% discount.
It varies wildly. It varies too much to say anything is the norm. The Chargemaster rate is essentially just the first step in a negotiation and no one has gotten to “good faith” negotiating yet.
I have talked to the people who represent the major hospital advocacy groups about this.
There are very few things that can be said overall: 1) hospitals start further away from the number they will eventually accept from a powerful health insurance plan than doctors, 2) medicare pays less than private insurance, but hospitals still make money off medicare patients, 3) medicaid pays a lot less than medicare, but a lot of hospitals can still make money off of medicaid patients. Anything else is made up. Oh, and in Maryland, even 1, 2 and 3 don’t apply. The state tells hospitals what they can charge.
I wonder if you could sue, arguing the hospital was attempting to defraud, charging you a higher amount that someone else for the same service?
We basically self insure now our rates crossed the $1,500 a month line and we simply cannot afford this amount, but I see no reason I should be singled out for higher fees because I pay cash.
Insurance is not the answer to health care. Worse when we did have insurance we felt we were paying so much we should be getting our moneys worth and I know we visited the doctor more often for minor colds etc than we would have done.
Insurance is not the answer to health care. Worse when we did have insurance we felt we were paying so much we should be getting our moneys worth and I know we visited the doctor more often for minor colds etc than we would have done.
I’m currently reading a book called The Mendacity of Hope. It’s about the promises of the Obama candidacy vs. what he’s actually done as president.
Right now, I’m working my way through the part about the health insurance reform bill, which pretty much leaves the current system intact. And gives the insurance industry quite the bailout in the form of 30 million new customers.
The author, former Harper’s editor Roger Hodge, says that the bill fails because of a fundamental problem, and that is that health isn’t insurable. Why not? Because we all get sick. And even the most honest and ethical of insurance companies makes money by denying claims.
And even the most honest and ethical of insurance companies makes money by denying claims.
But should it matter who denies the claims, insurance companies or the government? How can we be certain that if insurance company denies the claims, it’s for the wrong reason and government does it, it’s for the right reason?
Insurance companies are 100% focused on the dollar. Little is done in terms of cost benefit. They throw up road blocks to legitimate care in the hope that doctors will get frustrated or patients will give up and just pay the bill. They delay payments to infinity. They are often a black box in terms of reasoning for coverage vs non coverage.
The ideal gov system would be based on cost benefit analysis and would cover only those things that meet a certain threshold. This would be understandable to drug makers doctors and patients. If something is marginal in terms of efficacy drug companies would have to decide to lower the price or just depend on those with private insurance. Many would lower the price.
The system we have now encourages drug and device manufacturers to price their drugs to the moon, they know that medicare can’t argue with them, they usually give patients with a big deductable a kickback so they don’t get mad and so that the MD orders the drug. Hospitals bill huge rates and then accept a fraction of that from insurance companies.
The gov system would be better, with a private system for those that want the bells and whistles. The evidence for this is overwhelming. Socialized systems cost 50% less and delivers similar outcomes. The gov system should have massive investment in research to prove a tx is effective and how effective it is. There are a ton of treatments that are not proven but are performed again and again. If an MD rec a tx like this the pt would have the option to pay out of pocket or to join a study to answer the question.
Insurance companies are 100% focused on the dollar. Little is done in terms of cost benefit. They throw up road blocks to legitimate care in the hope that doctors will get frustrated or patients will give up and just pay the bill. They delay payments to infinity. They are often a black box in terms of reasoning for coverage vs non coverage
And they just got ripped a new one on “Democracy Now.” Wendell Potter and Michael Moore were on today’s show with Amy Goodman.
The reason your bill is $17K is probably because of all the services of the ER, which you didn’t need. But there is often no alternative.
My daughter injured her ankle badly. We just wanted to make sure it wasn’t broken, and if it was, make sure it was taken care of. We didn’t want to go to the ER, because we knew it would be a massive hassle and we knew it wasn’t an emergency.
After several hours we were unable to find an alternative. Our doctor told us to go to the ER. They told us she had a broken ankle, and put on a temporary cast. When were finally able to get in to see an orthopedist, we found out it was a high ankle sprain, not broken, so the ER visit was worth less than nothing.
Are you insured? Hospitals (well all medical practicioners) charge the uninsured 3 to 4 times as much for services as the do the insured.
My doc sent a snot sample to the lab, which had an old insurance company for me on file, and the snot diagnosis (uninsured) was $400.00. Rebilled to my current insurance company, a little over $100. Criminal in my mind.
I had to take a six mile ride in a private ambulance last year, that ride alone was nearly $2,000.
the insurance company will neogoiate the bill down to probably about 1.5K
the hospital might want you to pay the rest I don’t think you have to depends on what the insurance compny has worked out with the hospital
its like a flea market seller wants 30K you offer 20 bucks
If you have insurance and the provider is “in network” the provider is contractually obligatged to accept the negotiated rate with the insurance company, they cannot come back to you for any discounts negotiated by the insurance company.
“Out of network” may be a totally different animal.
Check out the hospital and doctor billing toward the end of the year. They are trying to make their nut for bonuses and such.
oh yeah blood on the streets:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/11/23/1939037/condo-dispute-turns-deadly-on.html
“The son had been living in the unit for years without paying, said M. Keith Marshall, an attorney for the father.”
“Police knocked and announced their intention”
“The door burst open and the man inside started firing. The shooter emptied his .357 revolver,”
Articles on paying your mortgage being bad for the economy, people saying I was overloaned, NACA telling people “it`s not your fault” broken chain of title, IMHO giving people the idea that they can stay in their “home” forever and not pay for it being their legal right. The longer it goes, the uglier the end is going to be.
Puh-leese. The guy was obviously mentally ill or strung out on drugs.
So what kind of heat does Ben Jones pack?
Yeah, Ben, what kind of heat? And when you visit Tucson, let’s go out to the shooting range and fire off a few rounds.
PS: The above invitation is extended to any other HBB-ers who’d like to practice their Second Amendment rights at the range.
Technically, blood in the hallways.
Glad to hear the cops were okay.
Woman who told Obama she was ‘exhausted’ loses job
WASHINGTON – The woman who told President Barack Obama that she was “exhausted” from defending him and his economic policies and waiting for the change she expected after voting for him has another reason to be put out: She’s lost her job.
Velma Hart, the chief financial officer for Am Vets, a veteran services organization based in Maryland, said Monday in an interview with CNBC that she was laid off as part of the nonprofit’s effort to cut expenses.
“I want to focus on the positive and be optimistic,” said Hart, who lives in Upper Marlboro, Md. “And assume that somehow things will work out, that there’s an opportunity out there with Velma’s name on it that’s right around the corner.”
Am Vets executive director Jim King told The Washington Post that the nonprofit was looking for ways to survive financially.
“It’s not anything she did,” King told the Post for a story that appeared online Monday. “She got bit by the same snake that has bit a lot of people. It was a move to cut our bottom line.”
In September, during a town hall-style meeting on the economy televised by CNBC, Hart told Obama: “Quite frankly, I’m exhausted. Exhausted of defending you, defending your administration, defending the man for change I voted for, and deeply disappointed with where we are right now.”
Hart said that the recession had taken an enormous toll on her family and left her and her husband worried about their finances. “And quite frankly, Mr. President, I need you to answer honestly,” she said, “Is this my new reality?”
Obama responded, in part: “As I said before, times are tough for everybody right now. So I understand your frustration.” He went on to cite examples of administration policies that he argued were helping families cope financially.
“Woman who told Obama she was ‘exhausted’ loses job”
Now she has 99 weeks to get some rest.
99 weeks, hell she has the rest of her life to collect if they keep extending it.
To get 99 weeks she needed to be laid off two years ago.
26 is all she we most likely get today.
“To get 99 weeks she needed to be laid off two years ago.”
“26 is all she we most likely get today.”
Well then, she can save all that energy from not having to defend Obama and his economic policies.
Uh, I was under the impression that wasn’t being offered anymore.
I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that you still get 99 weeks. The debate was if that should be extended even longer.
I saw this on the Calif unemployement website:
“It is now possible that the maximum amount of benefits available will be pared back to the regular 26 weeks of UI benefits offered by each state.”
http://www.edd.ca.gov/unemployment/Federal_Unemployment_Insurance_Extensions.htm
Am Vets executive director Jim King told The Washington Post that the nonprofit was looking for ways to survive financially.
As are a lot of nonprofits. There’s a big shakeout going on in the nonprofit world.
Have you seen salaries of some of the non profit CEO’s? Man, they have learned well from WallStreet and for profit CEO’s. It’s a racket just like most private businesses these days.
Excluding most small businesses.
Have you seen salaries of some of the non profit CEO’s? Man, they have learned well from WallStreet and for profit CEO’s. It’s a racket just like most private businesses these days.
I worked in a local nonprofit where the big boyz at the top made six-figure salaries. Meanwhile, down in the steerage section of the ship, we peons were eating vegetarian food and shopping at yard sales. And, every year at Christmas, there were people in the office who got care packages from their church.
Nonprofit is just a different way of doing the books. Instead of profits, high salaries.
Some of them are.
I call those “non-profiteers” to distinguish them for actual charities.
The hospital system for which I work is “not-for-profit”. Its high level admins. make in the high 6 figures, and the CEO got $5 million last year. It’s infuriating. The place seems to be run by beancounters for their own personal enrichment.
Non-profs are biggest scam going.
She needs to embrace “Hope and Change.”
Hope evaporated. Change is all she has in her pocket.
Damn. That won’t pay the mortgage or put gas in my car.
I think she will get another job. She was obviously very bright and well-spoken, and willing, even though she supports him, to speak truth to Obama’s power.
She spoke truth to the power. Not a quality today’s employers look for IMO.
I think she will get another job as well. But because she is now well known and has made “connections, not for any of the other reasons.
Where in the word change is implied for the better?
“I want to focus on the positive and be optimistic,” said Hart, who lives in Upper Marlboro, Md. “And assume that somehow things will work out, that there’s an opportunity out there with Velma’s name on it that’s right around the corner.”
She should look into a job solving mysteries. And maybe riding around in a hippy van. And wearing a short orange skirt.
Maybe she should quit blaming Obama and ask why the Repubs voted against ending tax breaks for offshoring jobs?
FBI raids three hedge-fund firms
When is the FBI going to raid the Federal Reserve?
That’s going to take an angry mob of taxpayers, not the FBI.
The only thing the FBI raids is barbershops and donut shops.
A brief and anecdotal touchstone on inflation:
My dear wife noted to me that at the 99 cent store the dozen eggs had suddenly turned into only 8 eggs. (no they aren’t Chinese eggs)
So we have here either 33% inflation through repackaging, or elimination of a loss leader, or a desire by the company to increase profit margin during a recession.
Which of the three is the most likely case?
You obviously did not get the memo from the Ministry of Propaganda: A dozen has always been eight of something.
Glorious news, the egg ration has increased from six to eight.
+ 10 !!!
double plus good!
Wall street dozen.
Or as the old saying has it, “four of one, half-dozen of the other.”
They are trying to game you.Same thing happened w/ dryers ice cream, cans of tuna etc.They make the product smaller hoping you wont notice and you continue to pay the same price.
Yogurts. I thought those things came in 6 oz cups, but now they are mostly 4 oz.
And they originally came in 8 ounce cups. They changed it to 6 ounces and convinced consumers that it was a good way to eliminate temptation while on a “diet.”
Of course the most cost-effective is to buy the 32-ounce (or larger) tub and portion it out into your own damn containers, but that’s too much work.
Thanks but I don’t eat dairy anymore. Lately living a mostly dairy free life for myself.
This is “monetization of debt” directly translated into reduced purchasing power.
This is classic inflation being packaged as something else.
+1 CB, IMHO.
“Of course the most cost-effective is to buy the 32-ounce (or larger) tub and portion it out into your own damn containers, but that’s too much work.”
I apologize for the one-upsmanship (sp?), but there’s an even cheaper way: make it yourself from raw milk. You get the cream cap and everything! As funky as you (it) wanna (to) be.
They make the product smaller hoping you wont notice and you continue to pay the same price.
Like Bras
Like Bras
Oops I wasn’t finished, I meant to say:
Like Brasil does. All the food here is in small packages.
It was funnier when you were talking about bras. Like strippers forgoing implants in this downturn.
But that would count as DEflation, right?
Everywhere it is smaller. US has the largest portion of any place I have been to. Only in USA, if you add 50 cents, you could double the size of your fries.
To be brutally honest, bras are one of the few units of women’s clothing which hasn’t changed its sizing regime. 36 inches is still 36 inches. Dresses and pants however, all moved down a size. 1960’s size 8 is now a size 6, 4 in business suits.
1960’s size 8 is now a size 6, 4 in business suits.
Tell me about it! I have size 8 pants that need to be taken in — they’re way too big.
I notice that Wal Mart charges more for XXL and even more for XXXL. Or, do they charge less for “normal sizes”?
“I notice that Wal Mart charges more for XXL and even more for XXXL. Or, do they charge less for “normal sizes”?”
Fabric prices are through the roof. I guess it has to do with cotton prices going to record highs, but it seems the synthetic fabrics also went along for the ride. So yeah, more yardage = more $$$.
When I was in college I made my own clothes because it was cheaper to buy fabric. Nowadays the only reason to sew is as an expensive hobby.
The bag of cranberries I bought yesterday weighed only 12 ounces. I could swear they used to be 1-pound bags.
A good measure is the cookbooks. Cookbooks older than a decade or so based their recipes on the sizes of the day. I have a recipe for a one-pound bag of cranberries, so your memory is correct.
And how do you make a recipe that calls for a 16 ounce can of something when now everything is 14.5 ounces?
Damn you, fractions!
IIRC, that’s a chinese dozen or a free trade dozen,.
No, just a “metric dozen”.
I’m glad someone else noticed the food inflation. According to the Food Institute, Turkey was 79 cents a pound last Thanksgiving and this year it is $1.05 per pound on average. Costco not too long ago sold Atlantic Farmed Salmon for $5.99 a pound and now it is $7.99 a pound. Also look at the price of milk at your local store.
Oh yeah, the dollar is maintaining its value just fine….against crap nobody really needs like a new McMansion.
Try buying a heritage breed. Ouch! The Black Spanish that we got last year really hurt me in the wallet. But food really should cost more as a percentage of disposable income, IMO.
“According to the Food Institute, Turkey was 79 cents a pound last Thanksgiving and this year it is $1.05 per pound on average.”
My local grocery tried to get $1.79/lb. for Butterball. That plan worked out very, very well for the competition! By my next visit, they had lowered the price considerably.
I’ve been mentioning it since last year. Was told I was hallucinating.
Actually, it did depend on your region. But my region experienced, on avg, 50% inflation at the grocery store.
I’ll be going to a farmer’s market tomorrow. Buy a weeks’ worth of veges for $10.
dude, that’s deflation! Just ask the experts around here.
market pulse
Nov. 23, 2010, 10:00 a.m. EST
October existing-home sales fall 2.2%
By Steve Goldstein
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - Sales of existing homes fell 2.2% in October, according to a report released Tuesday, with activity remaining mired near record lows as worries over prices, a glut of foreclosed properties, restrictive credit and high unemployment combine to weigh on the market. The National Association of Realtors reported that sales fell to a seasonally-adjusted annualized rate of 4.43 million after a 10% pick-up in September. Year-over-year, sales fell 25.9%.
…
The NAR wants both high volume and high prices. They’re doing all they can to keep prices high. I just heard on DC news radio that locally, they’re succeeding fabulously - DC (DC-metro single family home prices are up 8% - but I don’t know if it’s YOY or month to month).
But - with prices high, volume remains low. I wonder when the NAR will break - lose enough revenue, to keep their purchased politicians doing their bidding. Of course, the politicians will keep doing what’s best for the highest bidder, not what’s best for the people. But when the politicians move on to servicing their other johns, it will be interesting to see what happens to the massive housing price supports in place.
“The NAR wants both high volume and high prices.”
I have to assume most NAR members are too ignorant to realize the general incompatibility of high volume and high prices.
As they say, “Politics breeds strange bedfellows.”
Frank Defends Bernanke, `Appalled’ By Republican Criticism of Fed Chairman
By Steve Matthews and Margaret Brennan - Nov 22, 2010 4:43 PM PT
Nov. 22 (Bloomberg) — Barney Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, said he’s “appalled” by Republicans who he said have sided with some foreign central banks in criticizing Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke.
“I was appalled to see a group of Republican economists from the Bush and Reagan administration” arguing against the Fed’s asset-purchase program. “Republicans are joining the central bank of China in attacking Bernanke. This is really distressing to me.”
Frank, who spoke in an interview today on Bloomberg Television’s “In Business with Margaret Brennan,” called the Fed program to purchase $600 billion in assets through June “a very reasonable thing” that isn’t fueling inflation, as Republican critics contend.
A group of 23, including former Republican government officials and economists, published a letter to Bernanke urging him to halt the expansion of monetary stimulus because it risks an inflation surge. Separately, John Boehner, nominated to be the next House speaker, and three other Republicans leaders last week sent Bernanke a letter expressing “deep concerns” about a policy they said risked weakening the dollar and fueling asset bubbles.
…
It’s interesting how democrats are acting like conservatives. They are just too happy with status-quo.
Conversely, Republicans appear interested in sidelining (Republican) Bernanke as an agent of hope and change in the economy, in order to focus attention on the effects of Obama’s economic policies.
Agree. They are making some noise about the Fed, but it’s mostly noise, nothing will happen. What ticks me off about the pubies is they are still so beholden to WallStreet and Big Businesses even with all the evidence out there.
He’s surprised? By the same group that voted against ending tax breaks for offshoring jobs?
Really?
Korean tensions are great for The Precious™, not so good for Eddie’s “DJIA = 12K by year-end” prediction.
However, DJIA = 11K or bust looks set to hold, at least for now.
This is ugly — no way to paint lipstick on this pig. Baby Il has to start a hot war to prove he is worthy of assuming the mantle of North Korean dictatorship.
AM Report: North Korea Fires Artillery at South
Nov. 23, 2010
The North fired artillery rockets at a South Korean island near a disputed border area, killing two South Korean marines and sending civilians fleeing in a dramatic escalation of tensions. Evan Ramstad, Neal Lipschutz and Dave Kansas discuss. Also, Farnaz Fassihi talks about the move by Iran’s parliament, later blocked by the nation’s supreme leader, to impeach President Ahmadinejad.
Lobbing shells across the DMZ is sadly pretty common in Korea. They had just finished a similar session when I was working up at the DMZ in 1982. The press covered it as “small arms fire across the DMZ”, but I thought it was a strange definition of “small arms” to include light artillery.
However, one of these days the NORKs will find that China is no longer backstopping them. Then things may really change in a short time.
However, one of these days the NORKs will find that China is no longer backstopping them. Then things may really change in a short time.
I think that China’s NK backstop will be sacrificed in favor of its commercial interests. After all, there’s nothing worse than backing the aggressions of a rouge state like NK, and greatly annoying your international customer base in the process.
Such an annoyance could motivate the U.S. to do things like (gasp!) restore its manufacturing base and (ack!) reduce its trade deficit.
“Sorry, China, we can’t buy any more of your consumer goods because we have to fund a military build-up.” Do you think that would get China’s attention?
The Chinese army could roll over NK in a few days. Tacair support from US bases in ROK and aircraft carriers. Heavy US and Russian bombers from bases in Russia and Japan. But it would basically be a Chinese operation.
The Chinese army could roll over NK in a few days.
So could ours.
What I think will happen is a mass exodus from NK into China and SK. After all, NK’s people are so hungry they’ve been reduced to eating grass.
Then there will be an international refugee crisis. Which will be handled by (ack!) the UN.
Yes, we could END them. But it is also true that the norks can turn Seoul into a smoking ruin within the first hour or two. Even if they didn’t use their nukes.
Jim,
Threatening to destroy Seoul would work as blackmail against the US.
But would the Chinese give a damn?
There are approx. 28,000 U.S. troops in South Korea and we’re allowed to export 1 car to Korea for every 52 cars we import from them. Sounds about right.
bigtime short sqeeze in PCLN. Shattner is laughing all the way to the bank.
Chipolte seems pretty ridiculous at >200/share.How hard is it to build a business making burritos?One of buffets investing tools is to look for businesses that are hard to duplicate such as the rails.
For some reason I think the big boys are setting up people once again.They will start shorting this market and run it into the ground again.Then they will buy it up again when panic is in the air.
Chipotle already has a competitor: QDoba
I have eaten at QDoba - is very close to Chipotle.
I like both restaurants food. Decent price for alot of food. Usually split a $6.50 burrito with the wife and feel really full.
Dont like Chipotle as an investment here though.
For some reason I think the big boys are setting up people once again.They will start shorting this market and run it into the ground again.Then they will buy it up again when panic is in the air.”
the reason is because thats what they do like carnival barker’s
Can anyone who thinks they understand what is so special about DJIA = 11K please explain the magic support the market enjoys at this level? (I don’t mean to invite Eddie back to the HBB by asking this question…)
* Crickets *
Ummm….
Breach!
I still think it is a good time to buy the dip, as I have no doubt the market will end the day above 11K; Eddie could probably assure us of this if only he were still posting.
Dow Jones Industrial Average 10,999
Change -179.60 -1.61%
Volume 64.51m
Nov 23, 2010 11:31 a.m.
buy the dip, cramer said stocks are undervalued.
Cramer’s advice is overvalued.
cramer stoopid?
LOTS of fighter planes seen and heard flying overhead today…
I’m sure it is just coincidental to the Korean situation, though.
Rule number one of staying out of the political fray: Keep your mouth shut, in order to avoid insertion of roving foot.
Fed Adopts Political Tactics on Critics
By SEWELL CHAN
Published: November 22, 2010
WASHINGTON — Faced with unusually sharp ideological attacks after its latest bid to stimulate the economy, the Federal Reserve now faces a challenge far removed from the conduct of monetary policy: how to defend itself in a hyperpartisan environment without becoming overtly political.
…
I’ve been so busy following politics that I never watch cnbc and just skim HBB, but are there any homes with equity left in america and is that what’s causing the banks to suffer so much? No helocs no commissions? nobody can afford a new kitchen so no new loans. the banks are too stubborn to rewrite loans so no new loans. I have two friends in sd who bought in ‘06 both are walking away.
“…are there any homes with equity left in america…”
There are lots of homes bought pre-2000 with mostly or entirely paid-off mortgages. The negative equity problem has to do with two recent developments:
1) The Fed-funded post-1997 explosion and post-2006 collapse of U.S. housing prices.
2) The miracle of home equity ATM wealth effects.
Yep. The sad thing is that even as average house prices increased during the bubble, average equity went DOWN. The road to debtor hell was paved with HELOCs and REFIs.
Yep. Didn’t Alan Greenspan refer to this as the home-equity wealth effect?
debt = wealth.
IIRC, that before that, we had the 401k dot-com wealth effect.
You mean nobody would have bought all those Hummers and flat-screens without all that “equity-cheese”?
We bought in 2001, paid down a 15 year mortgage while people called us fools because we should have gone the 30 year route and invested the difference in the stock market instead because the whole tech bubble deal was a blip and the stock market otherwise Always Goes Up. Had about $150K in equity this year and a good regional economic picture, (ie. less than 8% unemployment now and the Department of Defense moving a couple large groups of people here in FY 2011) so decided it was okay to get a $40K HELOC and do some remodeling before the Green Berets show up and made contractor prices get expensive around here again.
But then we’ve done all our home-related lending with our local credit union (which sadly keeps 99% of the loans they originate, so no free house because of a missing mortgage note for us!) and not a big national bank.
HOUSING
Casting a longer ’shadow’
The so-called shadow inventory of U.S. homes reaches 2.1 million units as of August.
Thousands of people are collecting free rent every month.I wonder how much of an impact this stealth stimulous package has had on the economy?The guy next to us hasnt made a payment in about 3 years.Everyday the ups man shows up with a package.So he in spending some money but not with the banks.
I think this guy was renting and then quit paying the homeowner once he found out house is in foreclosure.The homeowner doesnt appear to want to spend the money to evict him.He doesnt have water on in the house.This water company requires the homeowner to have it in thier name only.So as the renter or squatter he cant get the water on.PG&e allows anyone to turn on the power so the electric is on.
Virtual “bomb factory” found at home, prosecutors say
Home’s renter pleaded not guilty to 28 charges involving explosive devices
By Kristina Davis, UNION-TRIBUNE
J. Harry Jones, UNION-TRIBUNE
Originally published November 22, 2010 at 1:19 p.m., updated November 22, 2010 at 7:20 p.m.
VISTA — A North County man who prosecutors allege turned his rental home into a virtual “bomb factory” by manufacturing a large amount of highly dangerous and volatile homemade explosives pleaded not guilty Monday to a host of charges and was ordered held on $5 million bail.
…
What ever happened to the right to bear arms? Let the NRA on this one.
Hockett prohibited the news media from publishing photographs of Jakubec’s face from Monday’s arraignment, saying there are “identity issues” as part of the ongoing investigation.
That sounds very weird.
Nov. 23, 2010, 11:15 a.m. EST
Problem banks grow to 860 in third quarter, says FDIC
Banks report profit of $14.5 billion, down from previous quarter
See? This dude says it’s different here.
PDG sees no Brazil real estate bubble
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AL3V720101122
Brazil’s largest real estate developer, sees no risk of a bubble in the country’s housing market despite surging sales and a red-hot economy.
…With Brazil growing at its fastest pace in almost three decades and a burgeoning middle class taking out loans and mortgages at a record pace, real estate prices are soaring in Latin America’s largest economy and stoking fears of a bubble in the making.
But in a country where the mortgage market is still in its infancy and millions of people are becoming bona fide consumers for the first time, Grabowsky stressed that demand, not speculation, was driving the boom.
“It’s far from a bubble,” he said. “This is real demand, it’s people buying their house for the first time, to live in it.”
…Developers in Brazil launched on average 100,000 to 200,000 housing units a year in the 1990s and have grown to 800,000 now. By comparison, with a much smaller population, Mexico’s real estate market has between 700,000 and 1 million units a year,
SHOCKING! Yun predicted sales will steadily improve
October home sales down nationwide
By Kimberly Miller Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 6:27 a.m. Tuesday, Nov. 23, 2010
Sales of existing homes declined nationwide in October, following two months of strong gains and as the lingering affects of a foreclosure moratorium continue to cloud transactions.
“The housing market is experiencing an uneven recovery, and a temporary foreclosure stoppage in some states is liekly to have held back a number of completed sales,” said Lawrence Yun, chief economist for the National Association of Realtors. “Still, sales activity is clearly off the bottom and is attmepting to settle into normal sustainable levels.”
Yun predicted sales will steadily improve, partly because affordability is at an all time high with the national average commitment interest rate on a 30-year conventional loan falling to a record low of 4.23 percent in October from 4.35 perceint in September. The rate was 4.95 percent in October 2009.
COMMENTS
prices have to go much lower as mortgages going forward will be based on income,assets,and credit scores..where most people dont qualify..common sense..homes are still too expensive…shadow inventory still waiting to hit mkt..high end homes are praying to find a sucker to pay of their mortgage and HELOC..a MESS.
Reality still hasnt hit for most..house prices are going down more,housing expenses and taxes are going up..keep looking to sell at 700k when worth 400k..good luck deadbeats!
mike
10:39 AM, 11/23/2010
Sales are down..you actually need an income! How about a good credit score! Or how about some money in the bank! But wait..lets buy that overpriced house in Versailles surrounded by mortgage fraud so ican impress my friends! OR how about that overpriced house in Olympia..surrounded by crime,squatters,and deadbeats.wow its selling at 500k when it was priced at 1mm! oops only worth 300k as all made up #s..Or how about many in Paddock Park NOW trying to sell..oops too late.big reductions+overpriced
pete
10:46 AM, 11/23/2010
Survey Says Foreclosure Mess Prompts Homebuyers to Avoid REOs and Distressed Properties
http://nationalmortgageprofessional.com/news22012/survey-says-foreclosure-mess-prompts-homebuyers-avoid-reos-and-distressed-properties
Of course. Who in their right mind buys ANY property where the ownership is in dispute and cannot be resolved in a reseaonble amount of time?
Interesting, a ‘For Rent’ sign just went up across the street from me on a house that closed last May. I wonder how many people “bought” a house just to get $8k cash? Are there any residency requirements after the fact, and if so, who is on that?
ISTR that the mortgage rates for investment properties were/are a lot higher than they are for residential. In addition, property tax rates are also higher.
You have to stay in the house for 2 years or you owe the $8K back
and yes … it has to be your main residence, so technically you cannot rent it out.
If it’s not the main residence, and it’s less than a year after the closing, I’d say we have a case o’ tax fraud right here in River City. And here’s how to report it, per the IRS.
So I wonder who is going to police this? IRS?
They can if we report the suspected fraud. See my link above.
Three years
Does the above mean that you have to stay in the house for three years or you have to give the $8k tax credit back?
Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Coming Wave of Foreclosure Buybacks
By Peter G. Miller -Realty Trac Article
After two years in exile Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are returning to center stage, ready to battle with the nation’s lenders. The fight isn’t over championship belts or gold medals, instead we’ll find out who really owns foreclosure losses worth billions of dollars.
The unfolding war has significant implications for both foreclosure buyers and property owners in general. If mortgage investors start winning court battles, lenders will be forced to dump accounting fictions and show real losses. At that point there’s little reason to hold foreclosed properties off the marketplace, hoping for higher prices. Instead, there will be a rush to dump distressed properties and accelerate short sales.
The “good” news — a term to be used cautiously — is that once foreclosure inventories fall, markets can then stabilize and in some areas home values might actually begin to rise.
http://ht.ly/3bDMA
If mortgage investors start winning court battles, lenders will be forced to dump accounting fictions and show real losses. At that point there’s little reason to hold foreclosed properties off the marketplace, hoping for higher prices. Instead, there will be a rush to dump distressed properties and accelerate short sales.
Lookie-lookie! Price discovery at long last!
We can only hope.
Geez, this stuff is getting ridiculous. WTF is wrong with the TSA.
“A retired special education teacher on his way to a wedding in Orlando, Fla., said he was left humiliated, crying and covered with his own urine after an enhanced pat-down by TSA officers recently at Detroit Metropolitan Airport. Sawyer is a bladder cancer survivor who now wears a urostomy bag, which collects his urine from a stoma, or opening in his abdomen.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40291856/ns/travel-news/
Here is an AWESOME article from the late David Foster Wallace on the subject:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/11/just-asking/6288/
“…What are the effects on the American idea of Guantánamo, Abu Ghraib, PATRIOT Acts I and II, warrantless surveillance, Executive Order 13233, corporate contractors performing military functions, the Military Commissions Act, NSPD 51, etc., etc”
I think we all know that answer to that one. How nice that the “right” is finally beginning to see the light and fight the same TSA blue shirts they inflicted upon us way back when.
Now if we could just banish forever the term “homeland,” (as in “homeland security,) and all its grotty expansionist Nazi implications, and concentrate on cleaning up our own backyard, we might be able to get our act back together in time for the next manufactured crisis. (Oops. Is that a Chinese sub firing missiles off the coast of California– at rush hour?)
A plate of Freedom Fries would get you back in the spirit, a!
You have problem with Corporate Communist Capitalism©®™, comrade?
BTW, my solution to this problem: pass gas when being patted down.
Can’t pass security? Pass gas!
Forward it to a friend!
National “Toot on TSA Day!”
Awarding and Rewarding the Socially Worthless Sociopaths
What Good Is Wall Street?
Much of what investment bankers do is socially worthless.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/11/29/101129fa_fact_cassidy#ixzz168C8G8O0
A few months ago, I came across an announcement that Citigroup, the parent company of Citibank, was to be honored, along with its chief executive, Vikram Pandit, for “Advancing the Field of Asset Building in America.” This seemed akin to, say, saluting BP for services to the environment or praising Facebook for its commitment to privacy.
During the past decade, Citi has become synonymous with financial misjudgment, reckless lending, and gargantuan losses: what might be termed asset denuding rather than asset building. In late 2008, the sprawling firm might well have collapsed but for a government bailout. Even today the U.S. taxpayer is Citigroup’s largest shareholder.
The award ceremony took place on September 23rd in Washington, D.C.,
Just in case I haven’t said it often enough over the past few weeks, all IPOs should be dutch auctions held over the internet. All of them.
There might be some small reason to have sales guys for bonds, but I doubt it. With the right lawyers, e-bay/craigs list/google could take over from Goldman/Morgan/et al.
ISTR that eBay had a dutch auction service. Probably still does.
“Just in case I haven’t said it often enough over the past few weeks, all IPOs should be dutch auctions held over the internet. All of them.”
While we are at it, stock orders should be filled first-come, first-served, and not be based on size (largest orders filled first).
Polly has started a useful discussion of roles traditionally served by banks which could be automated.
Please continue…
Ain’t Corporate Communist Capitalism©®™ great?
Florida housing market continues to tank:
http://media.living.net/releases/Economic%20Factors%20Impact%20Florida’s%20Housing%20Market%20in%20Oct%202010.htm
“Meanwhile, in the year-to-year comparison for existing home sales, a total of 11,888 single-family existing homes sold statewide last month compared to 14,980 homes sold in October 2009 for a decrease of 21 percent. Florida’s median existing-home sales price in October was $136,600; a year earlier, it was $140,900 for a 3 percent decrease. The median is the midpoint; half the homes sold for more, half for less. “
The “bank” has countered my offer and I have countered their counter. Fingers crossed…
If they counter again, counter lower than your original offer.
I wouldn’t counter. I would tell them, “I appreciate your time, but that is all I can offer at this time so I’m going to let me offer expire. I’d like to keep the lines open, so please call me in the future if your situation changes.”
Your phone will ring in two weeks.
Good luck.
Fed lowers outlook for economy through 2011, citing worse than expected growth
WASHINGTON (AP) — Federal Reserve officials have become more pessimistic in their economic outlook through next year and have lowered their forecast for growth.
The economy will grow only 2.4 percent to 2.5 percent this year, Fed officials said Tuesday in an updated forecast. That’s down sharply from a previous projection of 3 percent to 3.5 percent. Next year, the economy will expand by 3 percent to 3.6 percent, the Fed said, also much lower than its June forecast.
Fed officials project that unemployment won’t change much this year, averaging between 9.5 percent and 9.7 percent. The current unemployment rate is 9.6 percent. Progress in reducing unemployment has been “disappointingly slow,” the central bank said, according to the minutes of its Nov. 2-3 meeting.
The darker view helps explain why the Fed decided at its meeting earlier this month to launch another round of stimulus. The central bank plans to buy $600 billion in Treasury bonds over the next eight months in an effort to lower interest rates and spur more spending.
Maybe that’s because the Repubs voted against ending tax breaks for offshoring jobs.
Article links on Yahoo’s “Real Estate” page:
Home Winterizing Tips That Work
Why the Housing-Market Recession Isn’t Over
Why Homeownership Can Still Pay Off
Buy a Retirement Home for Under $600 a Month
10 Cities in the U.S. With the Most Millionaires
5 Costly Things That Can Happen to Your Home
Best Places to Live in America, 2010 Edition
Tips on Buying a Home — at a $100,000 Discount
Best Places for the Rich and Single
I particularly like the juxtaposition of the ones I bolded.
One of Robert Heinlein’s characters said (about another topic, but…) “If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks, please. Cash and in small bills.”
Test
Op-Ed Columnist
There Will Be Blood
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: November 22, 2010
Former Senator Alan Simpson is a Very Serious Person. He must be — after all, President Obama appointed him as co-chairman of a special commission on deficit reduction.
So here’s what the very serious Mr. Simpson said on Friday: “I can’t wait for the blood bath in April. … When debt limit time comes, they’re going to look around and say, ‘What in the hell do we do now? We’ve got guys who will not approve the debt limit extension unless we give ’em a piece of meat, real meat,’ ” meaning spending cuts. “And boy, the blood bath will be extraordinary,” he continued.
Think of Mr. Simpson’s blood lust as one more piece of evidence that our nation is in much worse shape, much closer to a political breakdown, than most people realize.
…
Tuesday, November 23, 2010
What are banks supposed to do?
Author John Cassidy.
In his book “How Markets Fail,” now in paperback, John Cassidy argues that the crash of 2008 was evidence that markets are not self-correcting and that Wall Street needs to get back to reality — and reform itself. Tess Vigeland talks to the author.
—————————————————————-
…
Vigeland: So I’d like to ask you a question that will seem oh so obvious, but I think perhaps isn’t anymore, which is: What is a bank supposed to be?
CASSIDY: Well that’s a very good question. I mean, in the old days, banks were supposed to be places where people placed their deposits and then the banker took that money and lent it to a local firm somewhere to invest in factory, or a new building or whatever. The bank was basically a financial intermediary; they’d take money from some people and lend it to other people.
Vigeland: But yet you talk at length here about how banks aren’t just lending money anymore; they’re basically huge trading operations. And the question is whether that helps anyone but them, right?
CASSIDY: You see what’s happened over the last 20 or 30 years is Wall Street and the banking system have morphed together, so giant banks like Citigroup and Bank of America and Wells Fargo — they’re banks in the old sense but they’re also banks in the new sense: they’re investment banks, they do a lot of trading. In fact the vast majority of the money they make comes from trading securities, which is more to do with shuffling around assets that already exist, rather than financing the building of new factories and the creation of new firms.
Vigeland: One of the folks you interviewed was Paul Woolley at the London School of Economics, and boy, the quote he gave you really stood out for me. He told you that the banks are like a cancer that will eventually take over the entire economic body. Does financial reform do anything real to prevent that?
CASSIDY: Well we’ll see, won’t we, going forward. What Paul is referring to is the fact that if you think about banks, what are they supposed to do? They’re supposed to raise money for people; they’re like agents. If you think for writing as an agent who raises the money for him to write a book. So they deserve an agency fee. Now the average agent gets 10 or 15 percent, and if you look back over history, that’s about what banks got. They took about 10 or 15 percent of the profits of the entire economy. What happened the past 10 or 15 years is, their agencies fees went up enormously. So in 2006 for example, they were taking about 35, more than a third of the entire profits in the economy. The banks exist to facilitate investment and prosperity on behalf of everybody else. But what’s happened over the last 20 or 30 years is, and in some sense the rest of the economy, is working for the banks. They’re extracting rent from the rest of the economy and they’re just become far too big. I think most economists would agree with that.
…
The banks exist to facilitate investment and prosperity on behalf of everybody else. But what’s happened over the last 20 or 30 years is, and in some sense the rest of the economy, is working for the banks. They’re extracting rent from the rest of the economy and they’re just become…
…giant vampire squids….
This should not stand.
Looking on the bright side, at least some people in high places are finally catching on. The questions are (1) how to expand limited awareness into mass awareness, and (2) how to translate mass awareness into political action.
Please, please, please Gawd, expand this probe to include great vampire squids within its scope…
* MUTUAL FUNDS
* NOVEMBER 23, 2010
Trading Inquiry Widens to Big Firms
By JENNY STRASBURG, MICHAEL ROTHFELD And STEVE EDER
Federal authorities, intensifying an insider-trading investigation, are demanding trading and other information from some of the nation’s most powerful investment firms.
Hedge-fund giants SAC Capital Advisors and Citadel LLC, big mutual-fund company Janus Capital Group Inc. and Wellington Management Co., one of the nation’s biggest institutional-investment firms, have received subpoenas from the Manhattan U.S. Attorney’s office seeking trading, communications and other data as part of a broad criminal investigation, according to people familiar with the matter.
…
* EUROPE BUSINESS NEWS
* NOVEMBER 23, 2010
Fears of Domino Effect Pervade Europe
Loss of Confidence Extends From Ireland to Spain, Portugal; Bond Spreads Widen as Euro Tumbles
By TOM LAURICELLA, STEPHEN FIDLER and MARK GONGLOFF
Contagion once again emerged in Europe as investors turned from Ireland’s debt crisis and set their sights on Portugal and Spain.
Both Spanish and Portuguese bond prices fell sharply Tuesday, and the yields above German bunds rose to records. The euro slid below $1.34 for the first time in two months, though part of the weakness came as investors turned to the safe-haven status of the U.S. dollar after North Korean artillery attacks on South Korea.
“People that are betting on contagion are probably making the right bet here,” said David Gilmore, a strategist at Foreign Exchange Analytics. “There’s not really anything to stop the markets from pushing the next domino over.”
…
State Foreclosure Probe Talks Include Mortgage Investors Urging Quick Deal
By Margaret Cronin Fisk and David McLaughlin - Nov 23, 2010 9:01
Mortgage-backed securities holders are pushing for a resolution of a 50-state probe of foreclosure practices, attorneys general in Iowa and Arizona said as talks with lenders and servicers expand to include investors.
“The mortgage backed securities are worth pennies on the dollar, so any kind of recovery would be better,” Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard said in an interview. Owners of mortgage-backed securities are “one of the players urging a resolution,” he said. State officials have begun informal talks with some investors, Iowa Attorney General Tom Miller said.
All 50 U.S. states are investigating whether banks and loan servicers used false documents and signatures to justify hundreds of thousands of foreclosures. The probe, announced Oct. 13, came after JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Ally Financial Inc.’s GMAC mortgage unit said they would stop repossessions in 23 states where courts supervise home seizures and Bank of America Corp., the largest U.S. lender, froze foreclosures nationwide.
The probe has since widened to include other mortgage practices, with attorneys general suggesting any potential resolution should include improving the loan modification process, barring foreclosures when people are modifying loans and creating a general fund to compensate homeowners who may have been victims of wrongful foreclosures.
“Robosigning was the straw that broke the camel’s back,” Goddard said, referring to the practice of loan servicer employees signing thousands of documents without determining if they were accurate. “It was proof positive that it wasn’t just in one state and virtually every financial institution was complicit.”
…
Foreclosure process ‘must be fixed,’ Treasury official says
Thousands of foreclosures are put on hold
During the housing boom, millions of homeowners got easy access to mortgages. Now, some mortgage lenders and government officials have taken action after discovering that many mortgage documents were mishandled.
By Brady Dennis
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, November 23, 2010; 10:18 PM
A top Treasury Department official said Tuesday that federal investigators looking into problems with mortgage foreclosures throughout the country have found widespread and “inexcusable” breakdowns in basic controls in the foreclosure process.
“These problems must be fixed,” Assistant Treasury Secretary Michael Barr told members of the Financial Stability Oversight Council, the newly formed panel of regulators responsible for identifying potential risks to the financial system.
The extensive foreclosure problems - which range from flawed and fraudulent paperwork to questions about improper or incomplete loan transfers - first surfaced in September when large firms such as Bank of America and Ally Financial abruptly halted foreclosures.
…
“Step right up, folks! Get your red hot foreclosure homes, right here!!
Foreclosures of U.S. Homes Fell 36% After Freeze, Lender Processing Says
By John Gittelsohn - Nov 23, 2010 2:01 PM
The number of U.S. homes seized by banks tumbled more than a third in October after loan servicers imposed a moratorium to probe whether repossessions were properly conducted, according to Lender Processing Services Inc.
Banks took over 79,886 homes, down 36 percent from a record 124,051 in September and the lowest number since May 2009, the Jacksonville, Florida-based real estate data company said in a report today. Lender Processing bases its figures on information collected from loan servicers at the time of foreclosure.
Bank-owned homes are among the most affordable real estate and a drop in their numbers may keep some homebuyers out of the market, said Sean O’Toole, chief executive officer of ForeclosureRadar.com, a real estate service in Discovery Bay, California, that tracks foreclosure sales in five western states. Sales of existing homes fell 2.2 percent in October, according to a National Association of Realtors report today.
“If there are many fewer, it could have an impact on one of the hottest selling segments,” O’Toole said in a telephone interview.
…
“(1) how to expand limited awareness into mass awareness, and (2) how to translate mass awareness into political action.”
When they get a, “military boot on their big fat bottoms” is when they’ll get awareness, and not a moment sooner.
Or, to put it another way, when the sucker is attached to their faces and they can feel the pain, That is when they’ll notice and try to take action.
Course that Russian fella of years gone by seems to indicate it’s too late at that point to do a dang thing except deal with the pain of ripping the sucker off, probably resulting in a total loss, … well, lets ask the Russians how this works out?
Or maybe individuals standing up for themselves can fight it off in a peaceful manner? I suppose anything is possible, but the odds…
The Russian, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, I couldn’t think of the name, but the story, oh boy, not pretty.
And that post of mine might not make any sense without the post that was eaten which addressed the answer to the questions, how to expand limited awareness into mass awareness, and how to translate mass awareness into political action.
Pain is the answer.
Pain from the sucker of the vampire squid.
Nothing else will do.