Bits Bucket for January 8, 2011
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
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Own a Home? Here’s Some Cash
Since the benefits to society of owning a home are hazy, you might conclude that individual families should be left alone to decide whether to rent or buy. Yet Washington throws more than $100 billion a year in tax breaks and subsidies at buyers through the mortgage-interest and property-tax deductions, the capital-gains exclusion and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which help keep home loans cheaper than they would be otherwise.
None of this is particularly fair: there are no blanket subsidies for the tens of millions of American families that rent either because they choose to or because they have to. Nor are these tax breaks efficient economic policy. In 2001 the Congressional Budget Office estimated that only half the benefit of the government’s implicit backing of mortgages through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was passed along to borrowers in the form of lower rates. The other half went to the companies’ shareholders and to banks as higher profits.
…
Congresswoman Shot During Public Event in Tucson
“The condition of the congresswoman, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, a Democrat, remained unclear. She was taken to University Medical Center in Tucson, the trauma center for the area, about 10 miles away.
CNN quoted a public information officer as saying that 12 people had been injured in all. ”
At a Safeway.
Sorry for hijaking the thread, but this seemed important enough to put near the top.
Polly
Death always works in this country….so Now maybe the Big OH will not take anymore vacations and congress will really try and solve our problems….we can only Hope
Remember Sarah Palin’s controversial website map where Plain put crosshairs over 20 districts where she wanted the Republican to win? Giffords (AZ-8) was one of the 20.
takebackthe20 dot com
Well OX:
Bernake just threw us all under a bus yesterday, stating it will be 5 years before we get back to normal employment.
I think more then a few people would not be able to hold on that long.
Plus we were predicting ghetto violence anyway…maybe its not going to be limited to the underclass.
…Palin put crosshairs over 20 districts…
I guess the maverick hockey mom who likes to hunt has her free speech rights?
Blood on her hands:
http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/15645
Let’s hope we have seen the last of this kind of campaign slogan:
…
Now that someone has acted out in violence towards Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, it is safe to assume that it derailed any chance at Sarah Palin winning an election for the White House.
Palin endorsed Jesse Kelly, who ran against Giffords, who used the tagline:
“Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly.”
…
“Bernake just threw us all under a bus yesterday,…”
How does providing a candid assessment of the employment situation equate to ‘throwing us under the bus’? Do you believe the Fed controls all the levers to make the U.S. economy dance like a puppet at the end of a string?
It was just some 22 year old nut job, Palin had nothing to do with it.
I want nothing to do with Sarah Palin, but to read these comments right after the shooting and before anyone knows what happened is very troubling. Some of you need to go out and get some exercise…the Knee Jerk does not burn enough calories.
Clearly the guy that did this was mad as a hatter. That said, it was irresponsible as hell of Palin to use that kind of imagery, when there was and is a clear potential for some loon to confuse rhetorical excess for marching orders.
Ive seen plenty of protest pictures of Bush painted with a bulls eye. This cr@p is never one sided.
I want nothing to do with Sarah Palin,
Good choice now.
Clearly the guy that did this was mad as a hatter. That said, it was irresponsible as hell of Palin to use that kind of imagery, when there was and is a clear potential for some loon to confuse rhetorical excess for marching orders.
Good point Sammy. Words do matter and the loon right’s words appeal to other loons lately no matter what their problems or politics.
“When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous,” the sheriff said.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/08/shooting-suspects-apparent-youtube-video/#ixzz1AVYLVyjc
Bear:
Yes it was honest and basically hopeless. He has no clue what to do. Not a dime to the “people” why cant QE2 be for lowering credit card interest rates for 2-3 years?
hey maybe increase the monthly food stamp allowances, lower the income requirements so i can get some….
Hey what about spending a few bucks here in NYC tolls and subway fares went up 15-20%
Co Ed just raised its base price for reading meters by $4 a month and my Landlord had them put outside so now we pay $20 a month with fees and taxes to use $5 worth of gas each month….
Help for every stinking idiot homeowner who gambled on housing, and not even a little tax rebate for renters?
Sorry Bear…..1/2 of the first bailouts went to foreign banks…..
This just felt like a sucker punch to me
—————————————-
“Bernake just threw us all under a bus yesterday,
I am going to back off and say that my heart goes out to all of the victims and their families. I heard the nine year old girl was taken there by her parents to let her see how democracy works…how f’n sad is that.
Be careful out there, make an extra effort to watch your surroundings, look people in the eye and fight for your life!
Conflicting reports about whether she’s alive or not. One report said she was in surgery.
In andy case, she was holding a public meeting in a Safeway and someone walked up and shot her point blank in the head, along with some of her staff.
This does not sound like a random shooting spree.
I bet it was DeNiro. He’s got a history.
She is out of surgery and a doc just said he is as hopeful as can be in the circumstances about recovery. Bullet went through one side of her head. Before surgery she was responding to some commands.
I’ve heard 18 people were hit. The “ear witness” said he heard 15 to 20 shots. Whoever this guy was, it seems that he was fairly accurate.
Just read that her surgeon is very optimistic of congresswoman Giffords recovery. Sadly the same surgeon said a young girl was killed in the sooting. I read she was nine years old. Suspect is caught and is 22 years old white male.
Beware of angry young white males in an era of poor employment prospects.
CNN and NYT reporting suspect’s name is Jared Lee Laughner.
last name may be Loughner.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he was a Tea Party nutjob seeing how she’s a Democrat.
Judging from some of his ravings about grammar and mind control, he sounds like a classic nutjob. They’re also saying he’s a military vet who served in Afghanistan. Some of the guys coming back from there and Iraq have some serious, serious mental and personality disorders.
“Jared”
A Book of Mormon stories name?
Beware of angry young white males in an era of poor employment prospects.
Yup, like somebody said it’s not the haves or have nots you need to watch out for, it’s the “used to haves”. Even if all they had before was hope and expectations.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if he was a Tea Party nutjob seeing how she’s a Democrat.”
No surprise at all. TeaParty=American Taliban.
One of the most sickening aspects of this, aside from the human tragedy, is that Rep. Giffords was engaging in one of the most important and time-honored traditions in a representative democracy: meeting with her constituents and having a forum for two-way communication of concerns. That is essential to a healthy democracy, no matter what your political persuasion. Already, we’ve seen the sorry spectacle of attendees shrieking abuse at elected officials, rather than raising concerns or grievances in a civil and restrained manner. Now such forums could be canceled altogether or subject to such intrusive security that it dissuades ordinary citizens from attending. This is a sad, sad day for America.
Well said, Sammy. It is hard for representative democracy to thrive in an environment where public servants can get gunned down when meeting their constituents in broad daylight.
Another incident that makes me wonder what this whorl is coming to. But then I distinctly remember the assassination of John Lennon, the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan. Those were around 30 years ago. Then JFK in 1963. This ugliness is normal. Too many sickos, but the world has had them for dozens of generations. excreter will remind us of Adolph Hitler but will never mention Mao, Pol Pot, or Stalin in the same disgust ( why?) or will never mention them at all.
“This ugliness is normal.”
Though fortunately rare, similar to sex crimes. I found my thoughts drifting back to Chelsea King today as I sat watching my son play his basketball game at the park where she was murdered about a year ago.
This profile of Ms. Giffords really brings home the tragedy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09profileweb.html?hp
Here is supporting evidence for my serial assertion that the mortgage interest deduction amounts to welfare for the wealthy:
…
The mortgage-interest tax deduction provides an even sharper case study. Nearly half the people in the 2010 Fannie Mae survey said tax benefits were a “major reason” to buy a house. Yet the mortgage-interest deduction isn’t even claimed by many homeowners. To get it, you have to itemize on your taxes, and more than a third of homeowners don’t. The bulk of the benefit goes to wealthier households that probably wouldn’t have trouble buying a home without the deduction. According to a 2010 analysis by James Poterba of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Todd Sinai of the University of Pennsylvania, the 2.8 million homeowning families with an annual income of more than $250,000 save $15 billion a year thanks to the deduction. Meanwhile, the 19 million families making from $40,000 to $75,000 save $10 billion. For those middle-class households, the average annual tax break is worth $542, or $1.48 a day. Are legions of middle-class families able to buy houses because they save $542 a year? Doubtful. The U.K. got rid of its mortgage-interest deduction years ago, and its homeownership rate is still higher than that of the U.S.
More unsettling yet is the way the mortgage-interest tax deduction entices people to borrow big: you get the deduction for the interest on the loan, not for owning the house or paying down the debt. Sinai, a self-described “pro-ownership guy,” recalls how his accountant once suggested he buy a larger house in order to get a better deduction. “I nearly bit his head off,” says the normally mild-mannered economist. “We conflate the idea of homeownership with extravagance.”
…
“For those middle-class households, the average annual tax break is worth $542, or $1.48 a day”.
Honestly I don’t know how this deduction works. $542.00 dollars would not entice me to buy a house, but if it’s there I will take it.
How long has this been in play?
It’s been 15+ years since I “owned” a house but I do not recall this deduction. It may have been, I just don’t recall it. Of course I never have done my taxes myself, always had someone else do them. I stink at math and paper work.
“Honestly I don’t know how this deduction works.”
Depends on how you define “works”…
Making housing more affordable, no.
Persuading people to buy for the “illusion” of a tax benefit, yes.
In Canada they only give you a mortgage write off if its a income property yet in Canada they still purchase houses .
I’m beginning to see just how bogus the tax structures are . I have seen real estate agents computing the tax savings just on the gross loan amount and taking 25 to 30 % of that and saying that will be the savings . I went to a open house one time and marketers were actually putting these sort of assertions on paper as if this was the real cost of ownership after the tax write off .
I have NEVER understood the “logic” that most people use. I have tried many statements to counteract the “I have to maximize my deductions,” falacy:
” Why don’t you shop around for the highest interest rate then, you’ll be able to deduct more?”
“If you pay less interest, you can donate the different to charity. Wouldn’t you rather give money to charity than to the bank?”
“I’d rather pay taxes on interest I’m getting than deduct taxes on interest I’m paying.”
I have to conclude that people put annual money in a different part of their mental accounting than monthly money. They may have an intellectual understanding of the correlation, but at some level $100/mo extra on the mortgage seems like less than $300/yr on their taxes.
“Honestly I don’t know how this deduction works”
And that’s the point. It’s a sales tool for the RE establishment for most middle income homeowners. They don’t understand how it works, and they think they will be saving 1000’s in taxes. For the upper-middle earners, it really is a big break; my RE taxes alone get me over the STD deduction.
But I really hate the way this is “perverted” by the RE establishment, they make families buying 200K homes believe they are getting some huge tax break by buying. With a 200K home, filing married, you’ll be lucky to “save” more than a grand or so a year. With a 500K home, the math is vastly different, you could save 10K a year; depending on what else you have that can be deducted, and what tax bracket you’re in.
If I had to guess, I’d say that if you “forced” people to explain their understanding of it (they would resist as they would immediately know from the question that you think they don’t understand), many would say that instead of paying rent and income taxes, an owner pays the mortgage instead of taxes - that one offsets the other. Same thing for property taxes. This, of course is completely false. In addition to misunderstanding the difference between a deduction and credit, they are completely missing that the value only kicks in once their deductions exceed their standard, unitemized deduction.
I blame this to some extent on Turbotax and H&R Block, et al. The software is tremendously helpful to people with even slightly complex taxes (sole proprietors with any capital expenses needing amortization, people who regularly trade stocks or bonds outside a tax deferred account, etc.), but for an employee with no other income exept a savings account and no deductions beyond mortgage interest, state/local taxes plus charitable donations and perhaps a credit or two, the advantage of the software is minimal. I do my very simple taxes by hand. The infomation gleaned, especially how much more in deductions would kick me over into AMT-land is invaluable. If people with these delusions about the mortgage intrest deduction had to go through 3 or 4 hours of adding and substracting and comparing, only to find that the mortgage interest shows up NOWHERE on their final form, they would figure it out very quickly.
“…they make families buying 200K homes believe they are getting some huge tax break by buying.”
“Of course I never have done my taxes myself, always had someone else do them. I stink at math and paper work.”
The CPA who has done my taxes for years always said you never buy a house for the deduction and always pay it off as quickly as possible. She even got amortization tables and suggested things like with each payment write an additional check for the next months principle or make 13 payments in a year, etc.
Doing taxes isn’t about math, though there is certainly paperwork involved. It is almost entirely about reading and following directions. World’s biggest word problem for a class of 11 year olds (since all the math involved is addition, subtraction, multiplication, a little division perhaps and maybe one or two applications of percents).
The mortgage interest deduction was the main reason I became a mortgage payer in 1990. My income took a 16% leap earlier that year from (drum roll) $30,000. I just earned my MSCS that May. I got the deduction but my PITI was $950 per month. I also paid extra for maintenance. My previous rent was $450. I was a mathematician who did not do the math. I look back and laugh and grieve at the same time. I would have had much more freedom in my early 30s had I not done the house emotional trap. And that is why in 2003-2007 I was very aware of hundreds of thousands of people repeating the emotional mistake of mine some fifteen years earlier. Education does not give you wisdom. Experience does. Thanks for your post!
20% down and $950 PITI translates to a ~$90K house.
Your income was $35K.
That’s 2.5x income. Doable, but pushing it. Was this the typical pricing at the time? To achieve that ratio around here, I would need to buy either a f’in floating box of air (condo), or count on a 1 hour commute for a townhouse.
My first house was $23,000 on a $16K income, circa 1978. People just went crazy since then.
My first house was $109K on a $24K income in 1981. And yes we went crazy since 1978.
My first house was a custom built 2000 sq.ft. house that was built in 1950 and sold for $31K. I bought if from a feuding divorcing couple (RE and ICU nurse) for $31K the day it came on the market. I put $6K down. My PI payment was $205 a month. Combined income with wife was $60K.
Second house was purchased in 1985 (2260 sq.ft.) from a couple relocating who needed to sell. They asked for $183K and I got it for $131K on a VA (they payed $6K for my loan).
Well my salary increased to $34,000 or $35,000 that mid-summer. House price was $98,000. Get this: I wanted a bigger house, (which in retrospect I did not need). The real estate agent convinced me not to spend more. She said I simply could not afford it but maybe in five years. What changed in the level of integrity of RE agents 15 years later? The houseI did get was actually too big anyway!
Bill,
I was fortunate enough to have an econ prof over fifteen years ago explain the reason the MID provided little benefit to anyone except for high earners. I don’t think I would have figured that out on my own.
This reminds me of why I think the “efficient market hypothesis” is bunk. Even relatively simple financial calculations (at least for an engineer, mathematician or economist) are not automatic; they take time and effort to understand. I have known very bright, well-educated people who took the easy way out of agreeing with mass delusion (e.g. “real estate always goes up”) rather than the road less traveled of considered judgment (”is it possible for a household earning $30,000 a year to pay off a $700,000 mortgage?”). The advantage (or lack thereof) of the MID fits this category: It is easily understood by anyone who passed high school algebra once you put some numbers in a spreadsheet, though I doubt my wife, who is plenty smart and who turns the Turbo Tax crank on our annual tax filing, would be able to do the comparison without my guidance.
I am a capitalist and I hate to admit it but your debunking of the “efficient market hypothesis” makes sense. Maybe it just fails for emotional material things though. A house “of your own” is every married woman’s dream, a secure world where her husband furnishes income and shelter. Emotional for a man too. Being a mortgage slave makes a man appear stable and a woman should find that attractive. Security. It has been too long, but I don ‘t remember if I was trying to appear stable for hopes of charming the women back then. I did date a lot, but most did not know beforehand that I was a mortgage slave!
“every married woman.” Bill, your idea of “every married woman” dates back to the 1950s. The married woman of 2011 is just as likely to work as her husband, and make just as much money. In my case, my husband wasn’t working at the time we bought our first house, and my husband was more anxious to buy one than I was.
“Being a mortgage slave makes a man appear stable and a woman should find that attractive.”
Even the whupped wuss in the ‘Suzanne researched it’ commercial? Any woman who is attracted to this kind of dimwit should be avoided like the plague.
I think America was a much better place when we had stay at home moms and a working-class guy on a modest salary could buy a decent house in a decent neighborhood and raise his kids without being a debt slave. Just my opinion.
Me too. But was that just a temporary thing due to our competitors getting trashed in 1944-1945?
They want us to pay a dollar to save 30 cents. Anyone who goes deeper in debt in order to “pay less in taxes” is an idiot.
The MID is a huge scam that just forces us to borrow more. It will be a glorious day if they ever get rid of it. Oh, and housing would probably become **more affordable** (read: lower prices) if they got rid of it…which is why it will never happen.
Agree on all points. And shame on me for my distant past mistake. My parents did not want me to buy that house!
“The MID is a huge scam that just forces us to borrow more.”
“… forces us to borrow more.”
It may ENTICE us to borrow more but it doesn’t FORCE anybody to do anything.
It’s the “shoes on sale” argument. Wife comes home with $100 shoes she paid $75 for and insists that she “saved” $25. She would have saved more by not shopping in the first place.
(Oh, but she NEEDED those shoes.)
What’s contributed to the decline in the value of the MID for so many is the rise of the standard deduction.
2009 $10,400/$5,700 married/single
2004 $9,700/$4,850 married/single
1997 $6,900/$4,150 married/single
1990 $5,450/$3,250 married/single
(So far I haven’t found a simple table of historical standard deduction values. )
It would be interesting to get some data on whether the MID has declined in value to most people over the years. Maybe at one time it was much more valuable for the average taxpayer.
“What’s contributed to the decline in the value of the MID for so many is the rise of the standard deduction.”
Very good point, Dennis. Other things equal, the higher the standard deduction, the less chance the MID (claimed by filling out a Schedule A) will provide much of a benefit to a homeowner. But don’t think for a minute that will keep any Used Home Seller from using the mortgage interest deduction as a selling point!
Maybe I’m a bit of a nerd or a geek, but I love my HP-12C financial calculator. I’ve had it since around 1987 and it’s a great tool for cipherin’ the situations I come across on a regular basis.
GEEK!!!
You probably love its reverse-polish-notation as well…
(p.s. me too…)
Hey nerdnuts- who are you callin’ a geek?
You’re right. Once you get used to the rpn you never want to go back!
You guys are making me yearn for my fancy old slide rule…the ultimate geek calculator. I may shop around for one, as I think it would be a great way for my kids to get their brains around the magic of logarithms.
I think they sell them at ThinkGeek. I have my grandfather’s old pocket sliderule, though I believe he had several. I think it might be ivory.
“I have my grandfather’s old pocket sliderule, though I believe he had several.”
Awesome, polly!
I also have/had one of my grandfather’s old slide-rules; unfortunately, I haven’t seen it in a long time and can’t put hands on it right now. Hope I didn’t lose it somewhere along the way… I hope no one tossed it when I wasn’t looking!
Here’s another article on the MID from all the way back in 2006 - and in the NY Times to boot.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/05/magazine/305deduction.1.html?pagewanted=print
Since the great migration to the suburbs also occurred after World War II, I assumed that the interest deduction was of a similar postwar vintage. Over the years, it has become an American folk legend: the government invented the mortgage-interest deduction to help people buy their own homes, and the level of homeownership has risen ever since.
What part of the legend is true? Basically, none of it.
Economists don’t agree on much, but they do agree on this: the interest deduction doesn’t do a thing for homeownership rates. If you eliminated the deduction tomorrow, America would have the same number of homeowners, the same social networks, the same number of gardens.
Obama Eyeing Internet ID for Americans:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501465_162-20027837-501465.html
If Big Brother is not already watching you, then it is only a matter of time.
A dumb idea that isn’t going to work. Sounds like somebody’s pet project over at Commerce.
Besides, you already have an Internet ID. It’s called an IP address. And it can be traced right back to your house by any compentent Network tech. No super-secret black ops required.
The best security step they could take would be to retire IP4 and go all IP6.
Take a wild guess what’s holding them back? (hint: “free market”)
Consumers boost borrowing in November for second straight month, but use of credit remains low.
WASHINGTON (AP) — Americans increased the amount of money they borrowed in November, mostly to buy cars and attend college. But the second straight month of gains barely raised consumer credit above its lowest point in four years.
Consumer debt rose $1.3 billion in November, the Federal Reserve said Friday. That follows a revised $7 billion increase in October.
The increase pushed overall borrowing to an annual rate of $2.4 trillion. That’s not much higher than the $2.39 trillion rate from September — the lowest point since January 2007. It’s 6.9 percent below the $2.58 trillion high point hit in July 2008.
The figures are not adjusted for inflation.
Credit cards are great as long as you pay no interest or annual fees. I can imagine spending more time writing checks or driving to an ATM daily if it weren’t for credit cards. I like getting double miles. And I do use my air miles.
If I am still in Tampa in 2012 I will use all those miles up. That is eight round trips on blackout days, 17 on non-blackout days.
Dave Ramsey is wrong about credit cards. His flawed reasoning is this: since some people have problems with credit cards, all people do. His other flawed reasoning of course is his assumption that each of his callers is either a Christian or a Jew. He is a bastadge!
“Dave Ramsey is wrong about credit cards. His flawed reasoning is this: since some people have problems with credit cards, all people do.”
Couldn’t agree more. I spend ~100K a year on my CC, and I’ve never paid a dime of interest to the issuing company. I fly all the time for free (because of the miles accumulation) and have much better airline “perks” than I would without the card. It’s a huge win for me; I’m guessing that using that card saves me a few thousand bucks every year (in tickets that I don’t have to buy).
However, if you start paying interest on that 100K in purchases?!? You’ll lose all the benefits in about 1 month.
We don’t fly but we do travel and our points pay for nice hotel suites when meeting up out of town with the kids for vacations. A whole week in SD last year at no room cost for 7 people.
“I spend ~100K a year on my CC, and I’ve never paid a dime of interest to the issuing company.”
Wow, you must be doing the St. Bart scene!
We churn about $30k/yr on our cards for groceries, fuel, meals, etc., and that’s for a family of four. I pay our cards to zero every weekend–part of my weekly routine.
Most of my CC expenses are for business travel, I don’t spend 100K a year on my CC personally.
I’d love to be in that financial situation, but, not to look a gift horse, I’m far better off than many, and very thankful for that situation.
I let my balance carry as long as humanly possible, I pay it on the due date, and typically, not a day before. Anything to maximize the value of the card to me (because the card I use isn’t free, I feel a need to try to get all I can out of it).
I’d love to get to the 250K a year spend necessary for the Centurion card; it’s stupid expensive, but, for me, it would probably be worth it (although the 7500 dollar fee would be pretty darn painful). The perks are outrageous, you’re immediately elite on most airlines (mid tier elite, which is certainly better than “dirt” status) and with just about every hotel (much less important, but still, not bad). I’d probably do it if I could get to that level of spend..
“Credit cards are great as long as you pay no interest or annual fees.”
Spot on, Bill! The trick is to find the card which gives you the most frequent flyer miles or other incentive to use it, but also charges you no fees so long as you always pay off the balance… and then to always pay off the balance.
This is not the current problem with the cards. The problem is that wages have been pressed down hard along with rising unemployment, and folks like you who had previously ALWAYS paid the cards in full, find themselves running out of cash during a long period of unemployment and then resorting to credit as a last resort. Some get work and pay off the cards, others do not. Those who do not default demonstrating the false notion cards are safe if used responsibly.
They make it sound like it’s a bad thing when people don’t dig themselves deeper and deeper in debt.
God forbid people actually buy things with *wages* instead of *debt.* The bankers couldn’t own us, then, so we can’t have any of that!
I thought debt was wealth?
Credit raises the price of products for everyone . The people who are smart enough to just take the perks and not pay the interest are the people that don’t get caught in the lure ,the trap .
It’s amazing when you think about how the Industry started out
with letting people put items on lay-a-way to this big multi billion
dollar business of putting people into debt up to their eyeballs .The 30 year loan was another changed that allowed industry to increase the prices and foster homeownership .How about the car loans that went from shorter terms to 5 or 6 year notes so they could rationalize the higher prices .
Industry couldn’t charge the prices they charge if people just bought products based on their income and saving the money first before they buy .
The whole bizarre system started breaking down when Industry got greedy and decided they didn’t want to increase wages and outsourcing was the name of the game .
Everything goes to the heart of how prices were determined to begin with and what forces are breaking down those formulas .
The middle class was the target group (because of the numbers )
and they are the group that is feeling the most pain by this current contraction that would be a Depression is not for the
interference trying to keep the broken down systems alive . The natural course would be major deflation ,but your going to get
inflation instead eventually .
Another great post, Wiz.
“Consumers boost borrowing in November for second straight month, but use of credit remains low.”
Maybe the banks will get the message they are overcharging consumers for the privileges of credit and will lower their prices (aka interest rates) accordingly in order to attract more customers.
I zeroed out my Chase CC because I despise them (they swallowed up my previous bank) and they are falling all over themselves sending me Cash Back incentives, which have proven to only cause people to spend more money. Earth to Chase, reduce my damn interest rate (which they jacked to 15%), and I’ll be back. 6% like I get with AE would be a start.
They’ve tried to lure us back w/0% offers after jacking our account (w/ my Fico in high 700s and DH w/800s) up to 16%. We pay our card off every flipping month. I cancelled. And no they won’t be getting me back.
Remember we pay 1-3% over the price of every retail purchase we make just for the priviledge of the option of a cc purchase. That represents how much retailers hike up prices after they pay Visa/Mastercard for their relationship.
US jobs report an ‘utter mess’ ~ Financial Times ~
Markets hoped that December’s payroll report would mark a breakthrough for the US economy’s recovery, with a surge in private job creation towards 200,000 – a level that would finally put a dent in the unemployment rate.
Instead they got a murky mixture of a report, prompting one economist, Rob Carnell of ING Bank, to call it an “utter mess” and question why markets focus so much on payrolls at all.
The problem is that the monthly payrolls report contains two different measures – a survey of households and a survey of employers – and in December they pointed in different directions.
The employment survey, the normal focus of attention, showed overall growth in payrolls of only 103,000. That was well below expectations, especially after a disappointing November report and a remarkably high estimate from private- sector payroll processor ADP earlier this week.
~ Clipped from The Wall Street Journal
Although the jobless rate dropped substantially to 9.4% in December from 9.8% a month earlier, the Labor Department said Friday, employers increased payrolls by only 103,000. Economists say that is barely enough to keep up with natural growth in the labor force. Much faster employment and enduring job gains—on the order of 200,000 jobs a month—are needed for lasting improvement.
The decline in the jobless rate, paradoxically, was partly a sign of economic weakness—many people have given up on finding jobs, and thus were not counted as unemployed. Some 8.4 million jobs were shed during the recession, and in 2010 just 1.1 million were added.
At December’s pace, it would take 70 months—or until late 2016—to make up for the rest of the jobs lost.
Meanwhile, the number of employed dropped 250,000.
0.4% is NOT substantial.
But thanks for trying to make us feel better, Pravda St.
I think those scrutinizing month-to-month changes are exaggerating the accuracy of the data.
And once the Republicans gut funding for statistical agencies (why should the party of the rich want the rest to be told things are bad for many people, not just for them because it is all their fault) that accuracy will go down.
The first thing Reagan did when he took office was to change the way unemployment was reported.
Voila’! Unemployment went down. A MIRACLE OF SUPPLY SIDE ECONOMICS!
Well my on the street report is most spammers have quit bothering us on CL…i used to get 40-50+ “job” offers a week….unlimited income we are expanding all over america…the sky is the limit type jobs
Now I get maybe 2 a day….
“…and question why markets focus so much on payrolls at all.”
Wow! Here’s a guy that’s overpaid.
It’s a “consumer based economy” Rob. And guess what a consumer based economy needs to functions? Yeah, more stupid economists.
Food stamp applications skyrocket in South Florida
Nearly 1 million South Floridians need food stamps to get by — an increase of almost 200,000 in the last year alone.
That jump is more than the entire population of Fort Lauderdale.
“It’s been a steady increase occurring every month for the last three, four years,” said Florida Department of Children & Families spokesman Joe Follick. “It’s obviously dramatic.”
Numbers released Friday show that in April 2007, before widespread layoffs and record unemployment levels, 422,233 people in Broward, Palm Beach and Miami-Dade counties received food stamps. By December 2010, that number more than doubled to 965,823.
“Nearly 1 million South Floridians need food stamps to get by”
I would bet 250,000 need food stamps and 1 million receive food stamps. As I have said here before, every week I see people use the food stamp card while talking on a nicer cell phone than I have and take their free groceries and load them into a new or nearly new vehicle that is much nicer than what I drive. Not to mention the articles that I have posted about several mom and pop stores in WPB who have been busted for giving FS recipients 30 cents on the dollar or cigarettes for their food stamps to the tune of hundreds of thousands of $ each. And that`s just the ones they caught.
Jeff would that be a certain minority… shhhh we cant ask those questions of them….it would skew the numbers, land them in an overcrowded jail…or get Al Sharpton involved
while talking on a nicer cell phone than I have and take their free groceries and load them into a new or nearly new vehicle
Still demonizing Black people I see…..Even though 80 percent of Florida’s population is either White or Latino.
http://www.fedstats.gov/qf/states/12000.html
I grow tired of coming to this blog to get relevant information,and instead read racial and ethnic tirades from individuals such as Jeff Saturday and aNYCdj. I guess all of America’s problems would just go away if the darkies just got themselves inline. Its never White peoples fault, you know, THEY are causing Americans problems (lazy black people, illegal Mexicans, Muslim terrorists, and now the Chinese….)
Thats funny cause every time I read about some wallstreet guy, sleazy Banker, or corrupt politician messing the people of this country over the associated picture always shows some WHITE GUY.
MK:
When you have Proof it is other then black I would be the first to apologize.
Sometimes its not demonizing or racism..it’s just the truth.
“When you have Proof it is other then black I would be the first to apologize.”
Where is YOUR proof that they are Black?!? And no, your OBSERVATIONS do not count as fact.
As I have said here before, every week I see people use the food stamp card while talking on a nicer cell phone than I have and take their free groceries and load them into a new or nearly new vehicle that is much nicer than what I drive.
Yeah, you do bang that drum a lot. One question though- How do you perceive that these people are using food stamps? It’s just a card you swipe, indistinguishable from any other card. Are you just assuming some people, who perhaps ‘look’ a ‘certain way’ are on food stamps? Or are you Mr. Eagle Eye, who can spot different card types from across a grocery store?
I can never tell who’s using food stamps, and I don’t believe all these stories about people who ’see’ someone using food stamps while buying steaks or talking on expensive cell phones. You can’t tell how they’re paying.
No my eyes are not that sharp. They don`t have to be, when someone swipes a card and then pays $8.37 in cash for the same amount of groceries that cost me $150.00 it`s a pretty good sign. Not to mention the more than occasionally the check out girl has to explain items that they picked up that could not be payed for by the card. Now I`m not sure but I don`t think MasterCard has a policy that lets you charge everything besides a big bag of dog food and a deli roasted chicken.
Just the other day I used a gift card at a grocery store, and then paid the remaining amount in cash. Wouldn’t I be counted as a food stamp user under your system?
And how are you seeing the amounts of other people’s grocery totals? Do you squeeze past your cart and crane your head around behind them and peek? I can’t see the totals of the people in front of me. Do you have strange check-out lines where you live?
I’m sorry, but I think the vast majority of ‘food stamp stories’ are apocryphal, including yours. Especially now with the new swipe cards. Just more Koch-and-bull.
“And how are you seeing the amounts of other people’s grocery totals?”
No, I am seeing what they put on the counter to be rung up, bagged and put back in their cart. But you may be right, there may be large amounts of gift cards in South Florida that week after week pay for everything but Pet food and other items that can`t be purchased with food stamps. By the way, who was that special someone who gave you a gift card for the grocery store?
And how are you seeing the amounts of other people’s grocery totals?
I can never tell who’s using food stamps.
Anyone who regularly goes grocery shopping knows roughly what a shopping cart containing $150 in mostly food looks like. It’s not rocket science. My significant other and I could care less as to whether someone’s using food stamps (E.g. EBT cards) other than the delay they sometimes cause us in getting through the checkout. The telltale signs for food stamp usage include someone paying cash for certain items, leaving a few items behind or asking their kids to put some items back because the items don’t fall within the food stamp guidelines (E.g. the deli roasted chicken is a good example as I’ve seen this particular item called out on multiple occasions). All of this generally occurs after watching some uncomfortable dialogue between the customer and the cashier.
I had uncomfortable dialog w/the cashier the other day. My credit card was declined. And my bankcard was in another jacket. CC was declined because they put a hold on it after I charged less than a dollar on my credit card which was the balance after buying something online w/a gift card. Once I told them yes that was a legit charge, the card was taken off hold. While having that discussion w/the cashier, I had just come from the gym. I wonder if some one w/their nose in the air thought I was on food stamps or struggling. In fact I have no debt with a solid amount of savings in several places.
Ah, and then I remembered the money in my wallet which I usually don’t bother carrying and paid all cash for all my groceries.
I wonder if some one w/their nose in the air thought I was on food stamps or struggling.
Yes, you would have been labeled a food stamp user.
Food stamp fraud sweep nets 62
South Florida Business Journal
Date: Thursday, November 18, 2010, 2:36pm EST
More than 60 welfare recipients in Palm Beach County have been rounded up in what authorities dubbed Operation Easy Money.
The arrests follow an 18-month investigation in which public assistance recipients are alleged to have obtained cash from government-issued electronic benefit transfer cards, which are only to be used to buy approved food staples, according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
In April 2009, the operators of Billy’s Market in Belle Glade were arrested on theft and fraud charges. That prompted a further investigation, which led to Thursday’s roundup.
Store employees would ring through a transaction that indicated the purchase of food, but then give cash back to the food stamp recipients and keep some for themselves. In most cases, little or no food was bought.
The transaction amounts ranged from $2,000 to more than $14,000, and it is believed the entire scheme cost the federal program an estimated $300,000 over a three-year period.
Sixty-one of those charged are from Palm Beach County; one is from Tampa.
Of course, this has nothing to do with the type of ‘abuse’ you seem to be witnessing everywhere. Good straw man, though.
Now they need to go out and round up all the plutocrats on Wall Street who got TARP funds after committing massive fraud in the MBS racket.
“Are you just assuming some people, who perhaps ‘look’ a ‘certain way’ are on food stamps?”
Isn’t it a bit early in this thread to pull out the racist card?
Yeah, why did you do it?
“Jeff would that be a certain minority… shhhh we cant ask those questions of them….it would skew the numbers, land them in an overcrowded jail…or get Al Sharpton involved”
Hmm…What race card would this be???? Of course, there were no racial implications in what was previously stated.
I saw no mention of race in what Jeff posted—only in the replies that others posted in response to him. I quoted alpha’s response specifically because I had seen no mention of such from Jeff.
Now aNYCdj’s response, that’s a different subject—if you want to jump on him for it, I have no problem with that.
But if you’re going to pull out the racist card, at least wait until someone says something the could be construed as racist.
Complaining about food-stamp fraud is not racist, since the vast majority of food-stamp recipients are white.
MK
Like it or not black people have been given passes on a lot of things…and not asking where they got the iphone and how they can afford it while getting food stamps or other assistance is a valid question to ask
I noticed as a dj black people never got sued by the RIAA for Illegally downloading music. Or selling the hard-drives full of mp3s on ebay.
“Like it or not black people have been given passes on a lot of things…and not asking where they got the iphone and how they can afford it while getting food stamps or other assistance is a valid question to ask
I noticed as a dj black people never got sued by the RIAA for Illegally downloading music. Or selling the hard-drives full of mp3s on ebay.”
I really don’t know where to start in responding to your racist comments. How would YOU know someone is on public assistance, or are you making to assumption that Black person = welfare recipient?!?
How do YOU know that NO Black person has ever been sued for illegally downloading music or selling stole goods on Ebay? ARE YOU A LAWYER? DO YOU REVIEW CASE LAW?? Are you really saying that Law enforcement is giving Black people a pass on breaking crime on the internet?? Unlike you, I can always provide evidence for what I say, and it has been proven OVER and OVER again that Black people are put in jail for the same crimes that White people are given a pass on:
http://www.sentencingproject.org/pdfs/racialdisparity.pdf
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/sp/disparity.pdf
Suspect Arrested for defrauding U.S. Taxpayers of over 1 million dollar through food stamp fraud
Posted: Dec 17, 2010 9:20 AM
by Katie Durio
Daprince was an authorized retailer under the name of Da Store/Dr. Restaurant, mailing address 630 W. Prien Lake Road, Suite B-157, Lake Charles, LA, 70601. Daprince owed a Taco Truck in which he used as a “prop” to engage in fictional transactions with customers that purported to be eligible food items. Daprince would not use the Taco truck, but actually utilize his personal vehicle to conduct fraudulent transactions. He would meet customers at various public locations and he would swipe their Louisiana Purchase card for their maximum value, which varied, and give them only a minimum portion. He would in turn receive full reimbursement from the State via the USDA for the maximum value on the card he swiped, therefore, obtaining a substantial profit. This money is strictly funded by the U.S. Tax Payers and meant for those in need within the U.S.D.A. food stamp program.
Daprince is 45 yrs old from South Carolina and has resided in the State of New York
http://www.katc.com/news/suspect-arrested-for-defrauding-u-s-taxpayers-of-over-1-million-dollar-through-food-stamp-fraud/ - 124k
Again, this has nothing to do with the supposed food stamp abuse you were complaining about- that of people living large while being on food stamps. These are just organized criminal activities, like much of what goes on in Wall Street.
Oops- I read your original post and saw that you were complaining about both those who live large on food stamps, and about food stamp fraud, so I retract my straw man accusation.
But I still don’t believe the ‘food stamp stories’. And you now why? In my experience, it’s always my conservative friends who regularly witness these supposed activities. Either they’re exceptionally observant, and should all be either high-priced private investigators or CIA agents, or else it’s just the same old tall-tales being swapped back-and-forth by True Believers. I’m pretty sure it’s the latter.
I agree alpha-sloth . Its a form of fraud that people think they are entitled to in keeping their standard of living up in the New World
of how to fleece the government like the rich fleece the masses as well as the Government .
” A Society that does not render Justice in a fair and just manner is doomed to fail . “……. ( I think this quote came from “ART OF WAR ” . I just don’t remember where I originally read it ).
A Society that allows the rich to fleece us and than is shocked and dismayed when the fleeced resort to petty crimes is unaware
of the moral hazard of rigged and stacked decks for the winners
of the rigged systems .
OK, ‘Nearly 1 million South Floridians need food stamps to get by” and they are all very deserving people who are down on their luck and would never abuse any system. Happy?
Did I mention that I live in Palm Beach County?
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/blotter - 40k -
“A Society that allows the rich to fleece us and than is shocked and dismayed when the fleeced resort to petty crimes is unaware of the moral hazard of rigged and stacked decks for the winners of the rigged systems .”
Exactly. And it’s not just the petty crimes we’re supposed to get angry about, but apparently even not looking sufficiently ‘poor’ while using food stamps is a Major Problem.
Billions are stolen from us by the banksters’ crony-crapitalism and I’m supposed to be outraged that a food stamp recipient can afford a cell phone.
” so I retract my straw man accusation.”
Don`t do that! If I`m the straw man the Wizard might give me new brain. By the way, I think the “banksters” and Angel Mozilos of the world should be in jail. I don`t think people should be living in houses for years without paying the mortgage. I think we could have the strongest military in the world with half of the money we spend and if you look at my original post I would bet that 250,000 in South Florida need and should receive food stamps. I am not going to argue, but if you shop every week at the Winn Dixie grocery store at I95 and Indiantown Rd. in Jupiter Fl. you would see the same thing I do.
In any case, anecdotal experience is just that, anecdotal. Maybe in your neck of the woods there’s lots of fraud. Or maybe its just your bias is showing.
Anyway, if you’re going to claim that 75% of foodstamp recipients are cheats then you need better proof than “I see them in the supermarket” if you want to persuade others to your point of view.
I don’t like crime on any level from the top to the bottom and
organized crime is horrible ,but people will start resorting to petty crimes to maintain their standard of living ,or cheating on taxes is another form of it, in reaction to a stacked deck against them and
knowledge that the rich get away with it .It’s the moral hazard of a unjust Society and the Rule of Law only being applied to certain
segments of the population and not to others . I don’t justify it
I just understand it .
If the corruption continues they just have to come up with more laws and eventually we turn into a police state because everyone
is corrupted .
Ok , I realize now I went off on a left curve with this debate ,but
my gut feeling (with no proof ) is that more people actually do
qualify for this food stamp program because of long term unemployment and the economy,but there is always a up tick in fraud in government hand outs. Look at what happened during the
Northridge Earthquake and the Katrina aftermath frauds .Look at all the fraud that has gone on in reaction the the bust of the Housing Bubble .
” Or maybe its just your bias is showing.”
My shorts aren`t ripped, my bias shouldn`t be showing.
Any opinion has some bias mixed up in it and it really boils down to
the ongoing arguments about how wealth is distributed . The age old battle and arguments regarding the haves and the have nots.
I have bias toward the worker bees (middle class /upper middle class ) ,no question about it .
I don’t like crime on any level from the top to the bottom and organized crime is horrible ,but people will start resorting to petty crimes to maintain their standard of living ,or cheating on taxes is another form of it, in reaction to a stacked deck against them and
knowledge that the rich get away with it.
And I don’t like it when people start rationalizing away crime, whether it is committed by Wall Street grifters or street punks or unemployed breadwinners. Moral hazard gives impetus to societal breakdown.
Exactly my point in the above post Sammy ,these crimes from top
to bottom will eventually result in social breakdown and the need
for a police State .
You know when you think about it ,had it not been for the consumer
Society for the last 80 years the people would of made total different choices . We went from Kings having Subjects to Banks having debtors .
Its all designed to put the most amount of cash possible in the fewest amount of hands these days .The middle class got a break for a number of years ,only to be slowly hoodwinked out of that balance of power that allowed them to get ahead .
I only watch the news to see the BS the elite are peddling these days .
They have to get the masses to go along with their programs and never mind who the winners or losers are . The People should take their power back that they have always had ,had it not been for the
brainwashing .It was a slow gradual process to arrive at where we are
today .
In the 50’s we were warned about the possibility of a Military/Industrial takeover by the President of the USA at that time .
What a wise military man who could see where our weakness
lied .
It’s all smoke and mirrors with calls now to screw any class below the top 15% . They keep the tax breaks for the highest class ,the percentage that got the greatest breaks for years and had the greatest advantages by the systems to reap the most benefits by the stacked decks . The new power party passed tax breaks for outsourcing in Sept and they can look us in the face and say they are out for the People .
The Politicians have allowed the formation of a Medical Monopoly with all the price fixing to the point that health premiums cost more than rent for a healthy person and they dare talk about free markets when it’s rigged and isn’t Capitalism as they claim .
If everybody went and cancelled their health insurance policy in open rebellion they would most likely immediately pass laws forcing people to buy coverage just to keep the corrupt system alive .
Why not price fixing by the Government on health care rather than price fixing to the up side by the monopolies . At least price fixing by the Government would save a lot of lives .Or why not total capitalism with health care and than you will see the prices cash because the whole system prices is based on Government supplements and Insurance system scams and monopolies ? Somebody is getting rich off this fleecing and you just can’t accept the bogus argument that new
medical research and the new age machines are the culprits . They raised prices as high as 39% in one year in a recession ….you know those Insurance
Companies, the ones that they say are free market capitalism .
What is sick is in spite of the breakdown of the rigged systems ,these
clowns still want to create policy that keeps the stacked deck alive and kicking and try to say it’s just a matter of taking more from the peons and how can they object to the price we want them to pay .
Ask not what the rich can do for you ,but what you can do for the rich .
prices crash….. not prices cash …you know what i was trying to say …right .
Again, bravo.
“take their free groceries and load them into a new or nearly new vehicle that is much nicer than what I drive.”
Assuming that their cars are much nicer than what you drive, I doubt many of those cars were paid in full with cash. Somebody had to approve the loans for them, and I suspect their owners are up to their eyeballs in debt, and that some are driving those cars until the day they are repoped by the bank.
““take their free groceries and load them into a new or nearly new vehicle that is much nicer than what I drive.”
And I see them loading their groceries into 15 year old beaters.
I think a lot of these anecdotes are apocyphal as alpha-sloth said.
You would bet wrong Jeff. But I’d be glad to take your money.
If you think food stamps are easy to get, go down and apply.
‘an increase of almost 200,000 in the last year alone’
Kind-of a new twist on that old “1,000 people moving to Florida each day” line.
I stopped by our local food bank to see if that was something I could help out. 90% of the cars in the lot were newer and more expensive than mine. There were some needy-looking people, but many also looked like they sniffed out a freebie and would rather have someone else pay for some of their food items so they don’t have to cancel their satellite TV.
I’ll wait till I find a needy family that’s worthy of being helped.
Might it be that those people were laid off, former members of the middle class who are trying to get by with their UE checks?
I’ve volunteered at places like this and I did not see the gleaming luxury cars pull up. I saw a lot of beaters with people who looked pretty down on their luck.
Naw, couldn’t be! It’s not like this recession has the longest period of long term unemployment since the Depression, now is it?!
Oh wait…
This debate reminds me why most of my donations go to my favorite no-kill animal shelter. No question there that the recipients are truly needy.
Occasionally I donate some food to our church’s food bank; I take it on faith that their intake staff is careful in their screening responsibilities.
I’ve been to a few food banks in my area (volunteering/donations) and they are VERY careful with their screening.
Do you know why? Because times are tough for them as well.
Those damn poor people always living high on the hog….. riiiiiiiiiiiight. If it’s such a great living, trade places with them……
No takers?
Thought so.
Bye-Bye, PCs and Laptops
Smart phones and tablets will soon handle the majority of our personal computing needs. ~ Las Vegas
As inflection points go, the Consumer Electronics Show that kicked off yesterday couldn’t be sending a clearer signal: The era of the personal computer is drawing to a close. For an industry gathering that once showcased each new generation of desktop and laptop, this year’s show is buzzing with every imaginable flavor of tablet, smart phone and mobile appliance. Welcome to the age of mobile computing.
While personal computers are not going to disappear altogether, the trend lines are clear. Gartner, the market research company, predicts that by 2013 the number of smart phones will surpass PCs
Question?? Someone posted this past week, (perhaps DennisN) about satalight internet service. I have heard of it just wondering if anyone here has it and what they think of it. If I could get away from Time Warner I would in a heart beat. Thanks
Not me - I use Clear WiMax.
Not satellite. Clear Wire. If you can get it in your area, get it. As fast or faster than cable. Unlimited use.
Get the USB modem and you can use it on your PC and then take it with you for your laptop… anywhere in the country there is Clear.
My smartphone and my iPad are all I need to keep in touch with what is important in my world. I keep my Dell Studio in Phoenix. The lighter you travel (the fewer possessions) the more freedom you have. Would probably save $3,000 in twelve months if I buy a used civic for driving around Tampa. But the small hassles of red tape, convincing Florida that my address is at a hotel, and other bureaucratic headaches make me enjoy renting the cheapest late model car I can find. Also I am starting to work overtime. After taxes, the overtime I get in a week make up for nearly three weeks of car rental.
I have one suitcase and a carry-on duffel bag here. That is all I ever want to keep here and add nothing else.
I’m not giving up my laptop, thank you. I can type very fast on it, and anything smaller would cramp my typing style.
Exactly. And my monitor stays in one place rather than moving.
One thing that might work is some kind of dock, like they have for I-Pods, so the I-Pad could be used with a keypad and monitor.
I have no interest surfing the interent on a smart phone.There are times I want to get away from it all and not be connected to anyone.
Exactly. And then there’s that.
My business is Internet related and even I don’t want to be connected 24/7.
‘Smart phones and tablets will soon handle the majority of our personal computing needs…As inflection points go, the Consumer Electronics Show that kicked off yesterday couldn’t be sending a clearer signal’
Oh, boy. Reporters fly out to Vegas and sit around with a bunch of goofs using their thumbs to miss-pel words and tell us how the world will work. I’m not saying there isn’t some truth to what they’re saying, just that it’s getting ahead of itself.
I use two wireless cards (cuz the coverage areas vary so much) for business. I have to have them. Do they increase my productivity? Absolutely. And I have a blackberry, which combines a phone with email. I spend most of my time driving or in a house with no electricity. (I had one person tell me I was the only person he knows that actually needs this sort of internet mobility). Time will tell how useful it all is. Prices are coming down, the wireless networks are getting broader and faster every day.
About most of the smart phones and tablets. They aren’t web based. They’re app based. I looked at the i-pad and the Samsung tablet the other day. I can’t practically moderate this blog with one. IMO, they are really cool toys, but just toys. This brings up something Lavi mentioned yesterday; building apps. It is worrisome that designing stuff like this is considered an industry. We have the highest unemployment in modern history here in the US. Apps and gadgets are fun, but nothing to hang our economic hat on. I noted yesterday that the Associated Press was talking about how many jobs a new house ‘creates’. Yeah, for a few weeks! And Bernanke also was discussing the ‘threat’ lower house prices mean for the ‘recovery’.
The word that keeps coming to my mind is delusion. We can kick the can down the road forever. We can build an economy on electronic toys made in China. We can force the world to our will, using a military paid for with borrowed money!
I know a guy who was in Iraq a couple of years ago; a tank mechanic in the marines. He told me he spent 50 hours of maintenance for every hour a tank would run. Now I read that Groupon turned down many $billions in a buy-out. That Facebook is ‘valued’ at $50 billion.
My point is, the tank is real. The cell phones are everywhere. The internet did change the way we live. But everything isn’t quite what it seems these days.
“And Bernanke also was discussing the ‘threat’ lower house prices mean for the ‘recovery’.”
Lower prices mean more people can become stable. No jobs will be created until the backlog of supply is worked off but the buyers will have more disposable income and that translates into buying power. At that time we will need tighter credit to protect free spending idiots from themselves.
I know a guy who was in Iraq a couple of years ago; a tank mechanic in the marines. He told me he spent 50 hours of maintenance for every hour a tank would run. And the just canceled Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle (an amphibious APC) had nearly TWICE the horsepower of an Abrams tank. So imagine what the figures would have been for that one.
Well at least with apps, most of the labor involved is here in the US. If you can export enough of ‘em, at a high enough price they could help with the trade deficit. The gadgets however, are manufactured overseas. But really, neither hardware or software employ enough Americans to get the American economy going. This is a real blindspot by the powers that be. Individual companies are trying to maximize profit, but this DOESN’T really help the overall economy if they don’t employ enough people to buy products. Instead of the (workers=>make finished products worth more than the raw materials=>earn wages=>buy finished products) virtous circle, an increasing percentage of the economy relys on (consumers=>borrow money=>buy stuff made elsewhere=>profits are lent to consumers).
‘the buyers will have more disposable income’
This what I call making lemonade out of the housing bubble lemon.
I’m not saying lower house prices will fix everything; our financial problems are too deep for that. But house prices are going lower no matter what anybody says or does. We might as well get the advantages that come with it.
Ben, I think the subfield I am in, out of software, is very important. It is semi-commercial. But again, everyone else can say their field is important.
Cancer researchers, surgeons, teachers, acrobats (kidding), now those are very important. I would say the US soldier is very important, but only if that soldier stays in the US and it’s territories.
‘everyone else can say their field is important’
There’s no question that apps are useful, and I’m sure that app designers will make a good living at it. These devices are a big part of peoples lives; just look around in public these days and most people at least glance at their ‘phone’ all the time.
What I’m getting at is delusion all around us. Even many homeless people in the US have cell phones now. I read that in Mumbai, families living in shanty towns often have more than one cell phone, but almost none have running water! What level of prosperity/productivity do these things signify?
“We can force the world to our will, using a military paid for with borrowed money!”
+1
I think CES is becoming somewhat irrelevant anyway, so I don’t know if I’d predict the future based on what’s being shown there:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/news/4341522
Also, electronics companies might be getting desperate in the sense that consumer electronics is a maturing industry and there’s not a lot of real growth segments in it (last year, everyone was making a big deal about 3D TV, but you don’t see huge numbers of people snapping up 3D TV sets), so everyone just follows whatever the cool trend du jour is. This year it’s tablets, so everyone’s peddling tablets. Next year…who knows?
“There’s no question that apps are useful, and I’m sure that app designers will make a good living at it. These devices are a big part of peoples lives; just look around in public these days and most people at least glance at their ‘phone’ all the time.”
Not me Ben.
I’m not nearly IMPORTANT enough to have a cell phone attached to my belly button!
Shessh…and I wonder why the IMPORTANT people…don’t call ?
“Lower prices mean more people can become stable.”
I don’t expect the Fed to mention this any time soon, as they are basically in Wall Street’s pocket, and financially stable U.S. households would potentially reduce Wall Street’s future profitability.
But then on the flip side, if plankton dies, so do whales. It must be tough for the FOMC to figure out how to make as much money as possible for the Wall Street parasites without killing off the hosts.
PB, there is an ad at the top of this page about maling your iPad into a mini notebook with a keyboard. Zaggmate. I gave a keyboard with the iPad to a sister for the Winter solstice celebration.
“I can type very fast on it”
Thats one of the main reasons this story is bull$hit. Not everyone wants to thumb type, texting I can see, writing a document…not.
“Smart phones and tablets will soon handle the majority of our personal computing needs.”
No way, unless we stop doing a lot of the things we’re doing now. While these devices can be incredibly useful when mobile, there are still significant coverage gaps and enough gaps even in big cities to be really irritating. And beyond the coverage gaps, it doesn’t take a tremendous amount of audio streaming to push you past the monthly data caps for “unlimited” service, for example. For some applications, image or video editing for example, you need a lap top at a minimum and preferably a desk top.
Sometimes I just want to get away and not be connected to the internet.It gives me time to think.
I think someone wants to keep people distracted with football games and mindless tv and social media.
I am so deep into internet that my world would be weird without being online during any 24 hour period. Internet made my life way better when I took advantage of information at my fingertips. That is what it is all about. You find a report that interests you, then you do deep research and take advantage of that information. I probably would be living in Tucson, working at the same company I worked at in 2000, earning $90,000 annually, married to that phd Kuwati, and she would be the main breadwinner. Yeah, not necessarily a and thing, but…
Sounds like I’m the alternate universe version of you Bill. And I just got laid off from that job :-). But I wouldn’t trade being a family guy for anything.
The Consumer Electronics Show is just that, a *show*. Companies bring what is new to the show. If there isn’t much there by way of normally powered laptops and desktops, that means they are mature products and except for getting a little faster/cheaper,there isn’t much new to see.
It is in no way an indication of what the majority of computing will be done on. It is just an indication of what they need to explain before they can hope to sell it.
The reporter is a moron.
“The reporter is a moron.”
Ya think?
“unless we stop doing a lot of the things we’re doing now”
True. Developers, programmers, anybody doing audio/video production and editing, graphics design, or working with complex spreadsheets isn’t going to do those things on a tabet no matter how cool it is.
Having said that, though, I did get an Ipad a couple of months ago (it was a gift–I wouldn’t have bought it). I work as a sys admin for a medium sized company, and took the Ipad with me on a trip to Chicago last month. Normally I take my laptop, but this time I decided to see if I could get by with just the tablet. With built in Cisco VPN client, an RDP app, and a telnet app it let me connect to work and do everything I needed to do. The only downside was that it’s a WiFi only Ipad, which meant that at O’Hare I would have had to pay for connectivity, and at the hotel where I was staying the only available WiFi was in the lobby. On the plus side, the bar was also in the lobby…
I did the same sort of experiment, except with my android phone, for a short trip to Las Vegas and Arizona the week of Thanksgiving. I left the lap top behind.
The not-so-good:
- I found out that my “unlimited” wireless on T-Mobile was less than unlimited, full speed - such as it is - to 5 GB, then severely throttled to slower than the slowest dial-up (I now use the sleep feature on streaming audio to keep the usage in check). Not unlimited beyond 5 GB, but effectively so in all but the best coverage areas.
- Wireless coverage is good and fast only in parts of major cities, marginal in-between, and non-existant elsewhere.
The good:
- I was able to keep up with email as needed.
- I was able to find a good Cuban restaurant in Las Vegas on Yelp after I found out how dreadful some of the buffets have become.
- I discovered the World Newspaper app is quite useful for accessing a wide variety of news sources from around the world, much easier than using a browser on a phone to access many of those same sources.
The only major thing I might have done that I couldn’t have done on the smart phone was image editing, but I wouldn’t have done that on the lap top anyway and I had internet connectivity more places with the smart phone than I would have had with the lap top, notwithstanding the capped T-Mobile service.
And as an aside on Las Vegas, the new City Center is stunning, though I’m still not sure how commercially viable it is.
I discovered the World Newspaper app is quite useful for accessing a wide variety of news sources from around the world, much easier than using a browser on a phone to access many of those same sources.
That’s the biggest thing I’ve had to get used to when I go somewhere with the iPhone and no laptop. The PC-era browser paradigm doesn’t really work on the phone. If there’s something you regularly read/do on the web using a browser, the key to doing it on the phone is to get an app dedicated to that one thing. For example, if I really needed to keep up with the HBB on a phone, I’d needed a dedicated HBB app to make the experience worthwhile. And that’s what Ben needs to be able to moderate it from a phone.
The death of the PC has been announced every year since about 1995. Sorry, but I’m not posting to the HBB from my smart phone, nor do I intend to, when I’ve got this gorgeous 21″ screen and a powerhouse PC.
I still love writing windows apps in Visual C++ and C. Now I have to get c# and I think it is free. You are right about the monitor, but I have one at work that is 21″
“Smart phones and tablets will soon handle the majority of our personal computing needs.”
Uh… no. Smart phones and tablets still have huge workflow and network compatibility problems and tiny screens still, and will always, suck.
Not to mention they’re overpriced. Ex: why would I buy a netbook when I can get a more powerful laptop for almost the same price?
I read the hbb on my android now. I prefer it for regular web browsing.
Peanuts, popcorn, red hots getcha red hots, beer here, getcha ice cold beer here, step right up we gotcha
“Hurry! It won`t last” Listing of the day.
9192 VILLA PALMA Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33418
$199,000 Price Reduced
4 Bed 2 Bath 2,419 Sq Ft
Drum Roll…………..
Days on site 706 days
Jeff — You are an inspiration to bubble sitters! Based on your lead, I am going to start posting some listings of SD homes that sit on the market forever and never sell. For instance:
Virginia Way (Unable to map) $4,900,000
La Jolla, CA 92037
Beds: 1 On Redfin: 899 days
Baths: 1 Year Built: 1952
Sq.Ft.: 1,133 Lot Size: -
$/Sq.Ft.: $4,325 MLS#: 080051930
Status: Active
Last Sale: -
Listing: Prudential California Realty
This could be Housing Bubble Poker!
I`ll see your 706 days on the market, and raise you 193 days. I`m out, UNTIL TOMOROW!
You have to admit you will have a hard time beating the time on the market for a 1 br, 1 bath, 1133 sq ft, 1952 vintage home priced to sell at $4.9 million. I don’t believe there are enough boxes of money and buckets of stupid on the planet to find a buyer willing to take that offer.
That`s a Royal Flush.
I enjoy these occasional post on these houses in Florida Jeff….Thanks…
Can the GOP stop out-of-control deficit spending? Not likely!
“The true conservatives and Tea Party true believers who gave the GOP its victory in November have won a single major engagement in a long war whose outcome remains very much in doubt.
“After all, FDR’s New Deal was never repealed. It was confirmed by President Eisenhower. Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society was never repealed. It was consolidated by Richard Nixon. Even Ronald Reagan conceded that he had failed to control federal spending, though he cut taxes and regulations. Then came Bush I and Bush II, both of whom were, in Fred Barnes’ description, ‘Big Government Conservatives.’ ”
~ Deficits Forever?
> As far as I can tell the voters of the USA are still pretty evenly divided. More than half of them believe “the rich” should share much more of their largess with the have-nots and that a governing class should manage people’s affairs so that everyone is treated “fairly.” The other half resists that idea but is inconsistent in its demands for freedom and liberty. The Tea Partier whose sign read “Cut government, but leave my Medicare alone!” exemplifies the schizophrenia among many political conservatives.
2011 will supply a steady stream of opinion diversity that will keep bloggers and other commentators in a high dudgeon.
“Deficits don’t matter.”
These words from a rather gullible Presidential type betray the true power locus in DC.
Money printed out of thin air and loaned to the American people at interest. Deficits matter to whomever is collecting that interest.
Can the GOP stop out-of-control deficit spending? Not likely!
They always say that they want to reduce spending, but they never do it. Reagan, the messiah of the Republicans, did a lot of talking about it during the years he was on the rubber chicken circuit. However, when he took office, he did the opposite. He made some cuts to things like school lunches and disability benefits to veterans, programs of no concern to his wealthy backers. On the other hand, he engaged in massive increases in military spending, which dwarfed the cuts made in social programs. (They also, by the way, included massive waste and fraud far beyond anything in the food stamp program, though not visible at your local supermarket.)
Now, the current crop of GOP members of Congress, addled by angry, confused “Tea Party” sentiment, claim that they want to cut the federal budget massively. When asked for specifics, they generally mention small cuts to small programs that don’t amount to much. I turned on Fox News for a few minutes this morning. That clown Michelle Bachmann was crowing about the vote of the House of Representatives to reduce its own budget by 5%. She didn’t mention how much that amounted to, but it’s got to be peanuts in the grand scheme of things.
I think part of the problem is they have no clue as to the relative cost of some programs - very small for some domestic programs, much larger for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan much less the much larger military budget, or the differences between some possible cost savings versus revenues from various tax policies.
They tend to vote to eliminate or sharply reduce programs they don’t like, programs that typically don’t cost much in relative terms, and support tax policies that end up reducing revenues far more than any cuts to the programs they don’t like.
Instead of reading the parts of the Constitution they like, maybe they should take a basic math course.
I recall hearing Reagan more than once saying he is not cutting spending, but cutting the rate of spending increases. I gave him credit for being honest, but yeah, government spending bloated during his terms. BRAC occurred under Clinton. We need another BRAC. We need real cuts in military spending. Gates is proposing cuts in the increase of spending - sounding like Reagan- and then no increases after 2015. Granted, inflation may then help to cut down the amount of defense spending in the budget after 2015. But note it is cyclic. We will have to ramp up military spending again in 2020 perhaps. We cannot afford to defend America, and that is scary. In China, there are 24 million more young men than women of child-bearing age. Those men are angry and have no mate to calm down their aggressive tendencies. That is scary. I hope to be out in some northern Mojave desert place before they invade. I would have boxes of ammo on my hilltop and be able to pick off enough invaders before they plug me.
As a follow up, my point is that for nearly a decade, America has been spending hundreds of billions on wars in other countries. All we needed was a one year battle in Afghanistan and Pakistan, then nuke ‘em and leave in October 2002. Save the billions for defending Americans IN America!
Bill, at the same time, you call for a return of the troops stateside, tout de suite. Where would you put them? Do you really want hundreds of thousands of well disciplined soldiers casting about on their own in this economy, which has brought seasoned men to their knees, and reduced otherwise normal civilians to suicide or senseless bloodshed?
Sorry, but this is about as well thought out as your assertion that in the event of civil riots, you’d depend on the po-leece to come to your rescue.
We do well when we anticipate the chain of unintended consequences arising from our dogmatic pronouncements.
Why
NewtonFama was wrongP.S. I believe the propensity for momentum to carry whole economies off track becomes much worse with pro-cyclical central banking policy pushing the pedal to the metal as the bus picks up speed.
Why Newton was wrong
Theory says that the past performance of share prices is no guide to the future. Practice says otherwise
Momentum in financial markets
Jan 6th 2011 | from PRINT EDITION
WHAT goes up must come down. It is natural to assume that the law of gravity should also apply in financial markets. After all, isn’t the oldest piece of investment advice to buy low and sell high? But in 2010 European investors would have prospered by following a different rule. Anyone who bought the best-performing stocks of the previous year would have enjoyed returns more than 12 percentage points higher than someone who bought 2009’s worst performers.
This was not unusual. Since the 1980s academic studies have repeatedly shown that, on average, shares that have performed well in the recent past continue to do so for some time. Longer-term studies have confirmed that this “momentum” effect has been observable for much of the past century. Nor is the phenomenon confined to the stockmarket. Commodity prices and currencies are remarkably persistent, rising or falling for long periods.
The momentum effect drives a juggernaut through one of the tenets of finance theory, the efficient-market hypothesis. In its strongest form this states that past price movements should give no useful information about the future. Investors should have no logical reason to have preferred the winners of 2009 to the losers; both should be fairly priced already.
…
If markets are rational, as the efficient-market hypothesis assumed, then they will allocate capital to its most productive uses. But the momentum effect suggests that an irrationality might be at work; investors could be buying shares (and commodities) just because they have risen in price.
That would help explain why bubbles are created and why professional investors ended up allocating capital to dotcom companies with no earnings and business plans written on the back of a cigarette packet. Momentum can carry whole economies off track.
“But the momentum effect suggests that an irrationality might be at work; investors could be buying shares (and commodities) just because they have risen in price.”
A case of Price equals Value. If investors (and I use that term loosely) feels that a rising price translates into a rising value then they will be enticed to buy because of the rising price and hence their buying will add to the price (and thus add to the value).
This works until it doesn’t. It worked with tulips, with Beanie Babies, with real estate - then it suddenly stopped working.
The Price equals Value concept destroys the lemmings’ bank accounts but this destruction sets up excellent buying opportunities for those who are somehow able to attach fundamentals to the mesurement of value rather than just the price. IMHO.
What Price fluctuations do - and do very well at times - is offer a buyer enormous discounts from value as measured by fundamentals (as opposed to being measured by price).
If one can determine the fundamental value of something, say a stock, then all he has to do is to wait uniil the price of whatever it is he is interested in drops well below its fundamental value, then buy it. If it never drops below this fundamental value then he will never buy it.
This concept works well if one is not forced to buy whatever it is that is being offered for sale. It doesn’t work at all if one HAS to buy what is offered for sale.
This is looking at things from the buying end; Now let’s take a look at things from the selling end:
If one HAS to sell a non-necessity to raise cash for necessities then he is at the mercy of whoever it its that has THE CASH to buy but not THE NEED to buy.
If a person HAS to sell his stocks to raise cash then he is going to have to sell at the going price - he can’t afford to wait for better prices. But the buyer CAN wait for better prices; he can wait for as long as it takes because he enjoys the position of one who doesn’t have to buy, a position opposite of the one who has to sell.
Thus cash in trying times (such as now) - when matched with patience - is king.
This waiting to buy when the price is right and refusing to buy when it is not right works well for the individual investor who has the choice of buying or not buying, but it doesn’t work very well for the money manager who has to “perform” in order to keep his job.
There is a time for cash, but it is hard to justify to a lemming that he should be in cash when he is being charged a big fee for “performing”. Being in cash is something a lemming can do on his own, he doesn’t have to fork over big bucks to somebody else for that to happen.
So that means lemming money indirectly finds its way into chasing up the price of whatever it is that happens to be in vogue at any given moment.
I agree Combotechie. I have to admit that I just used some of my cash (with Ben’s help) to buy a property that cash-flows like a maniac (or it would cash flow if I had a mortgage anyway, which I don’t).
That’s awesome, Big V! Let us know how that goes for you…
“…sets up excellent buying opportunities for those who are somehow able to attach fundamentals to the measurement of value…”
It also comes into handy knowing when your friendly neighborhood Used Home Seller is blowing smoke in your eyes, and being capable of sitting on your hands when a lender is offering to loan you enough money to sink your family finances.
“I can calculate the movement of the stars, but not the madness of men” . Sir Isaac Newton in reference to the South Seas bubble. Early on, I argued that quantum, rather than classical mechanics is a better analogy for the RE market. No house really HAS a price until a sale (or observation) has been made. Rather there is an “expectation value” or estimate. When we look at large number of sales we can look at the mean, but that is NOT a perfect predictor of any individual sale.
“Rather there is an “expectation value” or estimate.”
Very true. The complicating factor is that so many things are tied to that expectation value for real estate.
And this is a Bayesian (subjective), not classical, statistical expectation as without a simple random sample of identical home sales conducted under identical conditions, classical statistics does not have any means to come up with an expected value. No two home sales are ever identical with respect to either the quality of the homes, market conditions, or bargaining skills of the buyer and the seller.
Prof, if you read this, can you give me a simple(ish,) one paragraph explanation of Baysian inference?
I’ve asked the guy who wrote the textbook, and he couldn’t do it. Can you? Is it truly mathematically possible to quantify human behavior into a statistically predictive model?
“…quantum, rather than classical mechanics is a better analogy for the RE market…”
Good insight. This gets especially interesting when a market collapse virtually shuts down transactions volume in some areas. How do you properly value a home when there are no recent comps?
And maybe you also stumbled upon the reason Sir Isaac Newton lost so much money in the second leg down of the South Sea Bubble: Back then, classical (aka Newtonian) mechanics was the only game in town, as quantum theory was not invented until Newton had moved on to accompany the other stars in the heavens.
“I can calculate the movement of the stars, but not the madness of men” . Sir Isaac Newton in reference to the South Seas bubble.
Someone needs to introduce him to Hari Seldon.
“But the momentum effect suggests that an irrationality might be at work; investors could be buying shares (and commodities) just because they have risen in price.”
There is another possible explanation: that the markets are slow to recognize the full improved future value of a stock. Some participants may notice it sooner, and some later; this could lead to a rise over the course of that time period.
In other words, rather than the later increase in stock price being driven by people chasing the rise in price (e.g. momentum) , the price rice could be produced by the delay recognition of the improved value.
I would argue that this explanation is at least as likely, but this explanation does not seem to support the drum that this author obviously wanted to bang on.
There is only one economic theory you need to know:
He who has the gold, makes the rules, but nature cannot be bought.
The rest is academic pedantry.
No truer words said ecofeco .
Posted this late last night. If coaches can`t afford to live there,(except for possibly the head football and basketball coaches) what about the rest of us peons that aren`t worth millions?
Stanford Athletics
Coaches’ Housing Fund
Ask any successful college athlete, “Who has been the most significant influence on your career?” The answer will probably include the name of a coach. A coach not only sets the tone and standard for an entire team, but also shapes the overall college experience of each studentathlete.
That is why the coach is a team’s most important recruit.
Stanford’s intercollegiate athletic program, arguably the best in the nation, attracts some of the country’s most respected coaches. Unfortunately, many head and assistant coaches struggle to enter the increasingly expensive housing market in the Bay Area, currently the most costly surrounding any Division I school (“Attracting Valuable
Coaches to the Priciest College Town,” The New York Times,
November 10, 2007). Living in one of the nation’s most vibrant economic and cultural regions affords myriad benefits not found at other universities, but it presents a real challenge for Cardinal athletics.
Every year, Stanford loses talented coaches who, despite competitive salaries, cannot afford to buy local homes for their families. They pursue opportunities in more affordable areas, sometimes coaching teams against which the Cardinal competes. Sought-after coaches have declined offers from Stanford simply because of the cost of housing.
The athletic department has discussed possible solutions to this dilemma for a number of years, but was unable to make real progress due to limited resources. Now, during The
Stanford Challenge, the university has established the Coaches’ Housing Fund (CHF).
To make this possible, Stanford seeks $40 million for the CHF, the proceeds from which
shall be used for the following purposes:
1. Buying Local Homes
Through the CHF , the athletic department seeks to acquire a combination of 6 to 10 single-family detached homes and 6 to 10 condominiums in the Stanford area. These dwellings may be purchased by the department using CHF funds or given to the department by donors for the benefit of the CHF. Such dwellings will be made available to head and assistant coaches for rent at affordable rates. In addition to providing immediate housing, the use of affordable department rentals will allow coaches to save toward the purchase of their own homes.
2. Building On-Campus Housing The CHF will also enable the athletic department to build an on-campus housing development comprising 19 three-bedroom, single-family homes of approximately 2,000 square feet each and 3 twin homes (6 dwellings of approximately 1,800 square feet each). This development will be located along El Camino Real between Serra Street and Stanford Avenue, at the edge of Escondido Village on Olmsted Road. Construction is scheduled to begin in summer 2008, and it is anticipated that some of the homes will be ready for occupancy by early 2009. Homes in the Olmsted development will be made available to coaches and staff at affordable rental rates. Again, affordable department housing also helps coaches save for homes of their own.
3. Helping Coaches Buy
In addition to the purchase and construction of homes, the CHF will allow the athletic department to create a transition fund to help coaches buy their own homes. For example,
after a successful coach has lived in an athletic department-owned condominium for three years, she might be offered a retention bonus from the CHF to assist with a down
payment on a home of her own. In addition, the CHF will allow the athletic department to offer low-interest or forgivable housing loans to coaches.
http://giving.stanford.edu/get/file/g2sdoc/CoachesHousingFund.pdf -
Maybe they can rent a closet like the japanese do?
Jeff,
Stanford has a huge endowment. They can manage their own ecosystem internally.
But the point is the article is clear. This is an issue that hits every area of the country. I can remember talking to my father about this years ago (how can the grocery store clerks, etc, afford to live here?). Most can’t and the result was the explosion of commuter communities located on the periphery of the bay area. While this enabled many to buy homes, I personally know quite a few who did, it also creates somewhat of a trap imo. That trap, outside of the standard debt trap, is spending sometimes four or more hours a day in your car. Outside of the costs associated with purchasing and maintaining your car is the physical and mental toll driving takes out of you. To be clear, if I was forced to make the decision of renting locally or owning in the periphery, I would take a hard look at owning and sacrificing my own time for the sake of my family’s.
I feel damn fortunate that I don’t have to make that choice.
It’s the choice we have made — to live closer to work and rent, rather than buy a very nice house far away from employment.
The most precious commodity: time.
This would seem to be a much bigger issue if the cost of renting and owning were both similar and quite high.
With the football head coach vacancy at Michigan, it was noted that this is the dream job of SDSU’s Brady Hoke. It was also noted that after two years he still hadn’t bought a house in San Diego with the implication that he wasn’t planning on staying long. Given the continued large cost differences between owning and renting, that seems to be a smart move regardless of his eventual career moves.
Again I ask, “How much a Stanford coach make?”
What do you call a deer with no eyes?
No eye deer.
What do you call a deer with no eyes and no legs?
Still no eye deer.
Bob.
A pair of trunks.
I don’t know, but it sure would be fun to tip one (just kidding).
WikiLeaks
I`m glad my Wiki doesn`t Leak.
“In the present case, the Japanese have the biggest public debt in the world - at 200% of GDP. Already, they’re using almost 60% of their tax revenues just to pay the interest on the debt. How do they pay government expenses? They borrow more money!
“This is not a healthy situation for the holders of Japanese Government Bonds (JGBs). They’ve got to expect that sometime in the next ten years the government is going to run out of money…or investors will run out of confidence…and interest rates will rise. When they do, bond prices will fall…probably collapse…and JGB holders will lose beaucoup yen.
“There is no way that this crazy system of government finance can continue.”
~ Bill Bonner
Republicans Take Aim At President’s ‘Czars’
House GOP ready a bill ordering Congress to cut funding for so-called White House czars and the offices they oversee, forcing Obama to seek Senate approval to reinstate them.
“Republicans Take Aim At President’s ‘Czars’
House GOP ready a bill ordering Congress to cut funding for so-called White House czars and the offices they oversee, forcing Obama to seek Senate approval to reinstate them.”
I personally despise both parties of our political system but I would love to see the repub’s tell O to jam the whole czar system.
Yesterday I was in the lobby of a fairly secure data center. In this lobby was a television tuned to one of the MSM news shows. The talking heads were going on about the repub’s reading of the constitution on the floor. I mentioned to a complete stranger who was watching said television that when they were done reading it they would crunch it up and throw it in the trash. He responded in kind. This tiny sample size still gives me hope that the herd is waking up.
I heard they were skipping certain unsavory parts of the Constitution, in their reading, even though they act like it’s a sacred text.
The “czar” mentality speaks volumes about a CIC’s attitude towards democratic governance.
“The “czar” mentality speaks volumes about a CIC’s attitude towards democratic governance.”
Not necessarily. He’s hardly the first to use that term. Perhaps he left the term in place because many people are comfortable with it and he’s chosen to fight his battles elsewhere.
Fair enough. But it nonetheless bothers me deeply that our government has evolved into one where a bunch of “czars” pulling this or that political lever from behind the scenes serves as an excuse for democratic governance.
Remind me who started and coined the phrase of “czars” for the Whitehouse?
I think it begins with an “R” and ends with “eagan.” And he was Democrat, right?
Dumbocrat
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-08/florida-arizona-banks-seized-by-regulators-in-first-u-s-failures-of-2011.html
Anyone want to start a pool on how big the failed bank dead pool will be in 2011?
So will the IMF, BB, the euro zone etc. be able to print up some food if it does indeed get worse around the world. People tend to act up when their stomachs are empty.
Item: A global scare in food prices
With drought and flood clobbering harvests, forecasters see significant food price increases in 2011
World food prices are back at levels last seen during the 2008 food crisis, when riots spurred bans on food exports in the most afflicted countries. The question now is whether the price surge of late 2010 will spill into 2011.
The U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization’s index of world food prices rose 32 percent in the second half of 2010, topping the peak of June 2008. Low rainfall in Russia, Kazakhstan, Europe, and South America parched crops, while floods in Canada inundated them. China’s growth spurred record demand for sugar and soybeans.
I had occasion to walk past the IMF building in DC this week. Every outside access had a rent a cop on patrol. Not leaning against a wall or a bike rack and looking bored, but seriously threat assessing every person who strolled by including yours truely who is about as physically intimidating as a kitten these days. The World Bank didn’t seem to have any more guards than usual. Neither did the stretch of Pennsylvania Ave that goes past the White House.
I have never seen that before and that is not an uncommon walk for me. It was weird.
Makes sense. A congresswoman was shot in AZ this morning.
Banksters are way ahead of politicians when it comes to protection.
Are you insinuating a bank was behind the Congresswoman’s murder? If so, on what evidence do you suggest this?
No I was saying banksters know how to protect themselves by hiring private security guards and such. Politicians not so much. The risk is from the crazies for both banksters and politicians. I can only hope that it’s not a trend.
Sad to hear that she is dead now. When I posted she was only injured.
“Fox News reported that she’d been shot point-blank in the head. Giffords had been staging a “Congress on Your Corner” event outside a Safeway grocery store.”
“The suspect was described by witnesses as a young man in his late teens or early 20s. He has been taken into custody.”
This is disgusting. Getting rid of political representatives you don’t like through assassination is never right. This is yet another very sad day for America.
“This is disgusting. Getting rid of political representatives you don’t like through assassination is never right. This is yet another very sad day for America.”
You mean Tear Party activist, conservative and and failed republican candidate Sharon Angle’s comment that “*we* need to take second amendment remedies” when it comes to elected officials was wrong?
Very interesting observation, polly. Thanks for sharing it.
Maybe its time to stop paying fasrmers to not grow food?
Shouldn’t the news that the Fed may need to continue QE ‘longer than expected’ favor gold?
Summary Box: Gold Dips on Weak Jobs Report
The Associated Press
January 7, 2011 (AP)
GOLD SLIPS: Gold dipped on a disappointing jobs report and comments from the Federal Reserve chairman, who said the government’s bond-buying program is still needed because unemployment could remain high for another five years.
…
New year, old problem: Jim Zortman notes that the Tournament of Roses float that broke down during the parade and had to be towed was the float that won the Governor’s Award for “Best Depiction of Life in California.” Could it be a jinx, he wonders, recalling that last year’s Governor’s Award winning float suffered the same fate. Maybe, though, it’s just another indication of the current condition of California …
LOL
This is a promising development. The more the courts decide whether to assign bagholder status to banks or to FBs, the less risk the bad gambling debt will get externalized to nonparties to the reckless gambles.
Banks Lose Pivotal Massachusetts Foreclosure Case
By Thom Weidlich - Jan 7, 2011 9:01 PM PT
US Bancorp and Wells Fargo & Co. lost a foreclosure case in Massachusetts’s highest court that will guide lower courts in that state and may influence others in the clash between bank practices and state real estate law. The Photographer: Noah Berger/Bloomberg
U.S. Bancorp and Wells Fargo & Co., in a ruling that drove down bank stocks, lost a foreclosure case before Massachusetts’s highest court that will guide lower courts in that state and may influence others in bank disputes involving state real-estate law.
The state Supreme Judicial Court yesterday upheld a judge’s decision saying two foreclosures were invalid because the banks didn’t prove they owned the mortgages, which he said were transferred into two mortgage-backed trusts without the recipients’ being named.
Joshua Rosner, an analyst at the New York-based research firm Graham Fisher & Co., called the decision “a landmark ruling” showing that at least in Massachusetts a mortgage “must name the assignee to be valid.”
“This is likely to open the floodgates to more suits in Massachusetts and strengthens cases in other states,” Rosner said.
“We agree with the judge that the plaintiffs, who were not the original mortgagees, failed to make the required showing that they were the holders of the mortgages at the time of foreclosure,” Justice Ralph D. Gants wrote for a unanimous court.
…
Also of note:
“The court rejected the banks’ request to apply the decision only to future foreclosures if they lost. It does that when it makes a big change in the law, which it didn’t do here, it said.” “All that has changed is the plaintiffs’ apparent failure to abide by those principles and requirements” in the law “in the rush to sell mortgage-backed securities,” Gants wrote.
Wouldn’t his mean there would be recourse on previous foreclosures that were improperly done?
“Wouldn’t his mean there would be recourse on previous foreclosures that were improperly done?”
Here’s to hoping Megabank, Inc faces ‘larger than expected’ losses on this court decision.
Hmmmm… if the banks can’t foreclose then they have to, they have to what?, have to keep the houses and keep the mortgages on their books? Is this such a bad thing for the banks, this keeping houses and mortgages on their books?
If the banks are “forced” to keep the houses and the mortgages then they are also “forced” to keep the houses off the market.
Keeping houses from being sold into an already saturated housing market does not punish the banks, it aids them. It aids them because it helps keep the (cough) value of their RE holdings from taking the price hits they deserve.
The approach the banks seem to want is to keep houses vacant and off the market. That’s a lose-lose all around.
While those houses would still be off the market, that they’re still occupied should put downward pricing pressure (at least as far as rents) on the remaining housing, and keeping the houses occupied could reduce deterioration somewhat.
Eventually, the issues of ownership and losses are going to have to be resolved. I’m just not sure how or when.
A senator just shot in the head . What !
Congresswoman, 6 Others, Killed By Gunman
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and six others died after a gunman opened fire at a public event on Saturday, the Pima County, Ariz., sheriff’s office confirms.
…
So explain why it is we want to allow concealed weapons in public places, including bars? And don’t tell me guns don’t kill people. I was at a nice restaurant recently and one woman had a Beretta strapped to her ankle, a bunch of us peeked under the table, made for a very anxious meal. Are concealed weapons the new tattoos, meant to confer some edgy, kickass attitude? The right to bear arms was meant to protect us from the government, not as an act of aggression against our fellow citizens in peaceful situations. They just had to burn down a guy’s house not far from here because it was loaded with weapons, bombs and chemicals, and threatened to blow up the neighborhood. This is out of control….
So you can shoot back.
What’s the old saying? “Never show up to a gunfight with a knife.”
Not sure I follow you….. Shoot back at what? The waitress, my fellow diners? I’ll stick with using a knife at a restaurant.
“So explain why it is we want to allow concealed weapons in public places, including bars?”
So people can defend themselves, duh.
The,”we want to allow” part means you don’t believe in freedom and you identify with those who would make others defenseless in the face of predators.
Wow, that still doesn’t make sense. I guess I’m too freedom loving to assume everyone is a predator. Been to plenty of bars as a single gal and never needed a gun to protect myself. Never crossed my mind. Guess I hang out with a different crowd….Paranoia may destroy you. duh.
This is a terrible tragedy; hopefully the Congresswoman, who was initially reported dead, will survive.
January 8, 2011
Arizona Rep. Giffords Shot At Public Event In Tucson
by NPR Staff
A gunman opened fire Saturday onto a crowd at a public event held by Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson, Ariz., critically injuring the congresswoman and killing at least five people.
The dead included U.S. District Judge John Roll, U.S. Marshal for Arizona David Gonzales told The Associated Press. Giffords, who was shot in the head, was among at least 13 people injured, according to the Pima County, Ariz., sheriff’s office.
President Obama, in a statement, said “we know that some have passed away” and that Giffords was “gravely wounded.”
NPR and other news organizations reported earlier Saturday that Giffords had died. NPR member station KJZZ in Phoenix reported the congresswoman and six others had been killed by the gunman.
…
—————————————————————————-
About Gabrielle Giffords
Personal
* Born: June 8, 1970, in Tucson
* Family: Married to Mark Kelly, a Navy pilot and astronaut with NASA; two children
* Home: Tucson, Ariz.
* Religion: Jewish
Career
* U.S. House Representative, elected 2006
* State senator, Arizona 2002-05
* State representative, Arizona 2000-02
* CEO El Campo Tire 1997-00
* Price Waterhouse Coopers 1996-97
Education
* Scripps College, BA, 1993
* Cornell University, MS, 1996
* Fulbright Scholar in Mexico, 1996
Her fellow Arizona congressman, Republican Jeff Flake, reached Saturday on his way to the hospital recalled that he had last spoken with Giffords on the House floor during this week’s swearing-in ceremony.
“We have a fairly small delegation and we’ve met often,” he said of Giffords, who in November beat back a tough challenge from a Tea Party-endorsed opponent.
“She got re-elected because she’s tenacious,” Flake said. “There was a very strong headwind against all Democrats and people did not expect her to come back to Congress.
“But she was tireless,” he said. “Others may have held back after things happen — like the damage to her office. She was fearless.”
Flake said emotions have been running high in Arizona over issues, including immigration.
“That’s obviously an issue that is a very passionate one for a lot of people,” he said.
In a statement released by his office, House Speaker John Boehner said he was “horrified by the senseless attack on Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and members of her staff. An attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve….this is a sad day for our country.”
…
Mass Shooting in Az , Gabrielle Giffords (Dem ) Congresswomen shot in the head ..three to
six other are dead .The Congresswomen has died . It was a public event .
Representative Giffords shot in Arizona, gunman held
18 minutes ago
WASHINGTON — Representative Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona was shot in the head while holding a public event in Tucson, Fox News and National Public Radio reported on Saturday.
Fox said 11 other people were shot when an unidentified gunman ran up and began shooting indiscriminately as Giffords addressed supporters.
Giffords was shot point blank in the head, Fox said.
The network said the gunman was in custody.
Giffords, 40, a Democrat, is married to U.S. astronaut Mark Kelly. She took office in January 2007, emphasizing issues such as immigration reform, embryonic stem-cell research, alternative energy sources and a higher minimum wage.
(Reporting by Roberta Rampton, editing by Anthony Boadle)
Oh wow. Tragic. Geez. Gabrielle Giffords was a big name. What is this world coming to?
Point blank??
Looks like a political assassin or a personal grudge. Not a work of a crazy IMO. We will find out soon.
Gabrielle Giffords alive in critical condition.
I dont think they know at this point, conflicting reports.
(Tinfoil hat tag on)
If it were a political assassin, don’t you think his or her employers would require the hired gun to make whack job statements about gold backing the currency and such to throw the authorities off the trail?
(Tinfoil hat tag off)
AZSlim is politically active; hope she’s not there.
I sent her an email inquiring about her health….
This is “too close to home” - it was at a Safeway grocery store at Ina and Oracle roads where I would get groceries when I lived in the area ten years ago. I still do business in that strip mall. Geez.
Ok ,the story keeps changing . They are saying the Congresswomen is in surgery ,so she isn’t dead yet ,but . 5 others
killed . FBI has taken over the investigation .Sorry about what I first said but I was just repeating the boob tube who got it wrong . That
news station said they made a error .
Here’s the local paper’s story, which is being updated from time to time.
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/article_88b4b436-1b53-11e0-8354-001cc4c002e0.html?mode=story
A quote from Giffords from a year and a half ago….
“When you represent a district that includes the homes of the O.K Corral and Tombstone, ‘The Town Too Tough to Die,’ nothing’s a surprise out in Cochise County,” Giffords said during an August 2009 meeting with the Arizona Republic Editorial Board.
Federal judge John Roll killed in the attack. He allowed a civil-rights lawsuit brought by illegal immigrants against an Arizona rancher to move forward in 2009. He received death threats for this.
For all we know, this guy could have been the target.
I think “point blank” and “target” usually go hand in hand.
Court rules against banks in pivotal mortgage case
By Christine Stapleton Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 9:41 a.m. Saturday, Jan. 8, 2011
The highest court in Massachusetts ruled against two of the nation’s largest lenders on Friday in a widely watched case that could have serious implications for banks that foreclose on homes without proving they own the mortgages.
The Supreme Judicial Court affirmed a lower court judge’s ruling invalidating two mortgage foreclosure sales because U.S. Bancorp and Wells Fargo did not prove that they owned the mortgages at the time of foreclosure.
Friday’s news quickly made its way to the monthly lunch gathering of two dozen Palm Beach County foreclosure defense lawyers.
“It’s a big deal, a really big deal,” said Joann Hennessey, a foreclosure defense lawyer who attended the luncheon at the offices of Palm Beach County Legal Aid. “It basically states what we have been saying all along: You have to have standing.”
In a concurring opinion, Justice Robert Cordy cited what he called the “utter carelessness” with which the banks documented the titles to their assets.
“There is no dispute that the mortgagors of the properties in question had defaulted on their obligations,” Cordy wrote. “Before commencing such an action, however, the holder of an assigned mortgage needs to take care to ensure that his legal paperwork is in order.”
OK shes not dead ,the first report was wrong .
The shooter had a lot to say about the lack of gold backing of the dollar and things like that …..wait until you see what his complaints were .
URL?
Pulled. All his online accounts have been shut down.
No, the YouTube stuff was still up. I don’t have the URL but I did see his blurb about an alternative currency - gold. His YouTube stuff was all text. Also comments about mind control and the illiteracy rate in the 8 th district. Note George Soros is into gold, so gold is certainly not a right wing province. But give me a break, a 22 year old is too young to develop a coherent political philosophy, whether left, right, or libertarian. It takes years. Jared Loughner is simply a nut job, no matter what his politics.
The congresswoman dips not even left wing. She is a blue dog democrat.
Dips = is
It looks like just a total young nut cake was the shooter and he acted alone .
5 youtube videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHoaZaLbqB4
hmmm…. he has all the hallmarks of an anti-government, anti-fed, ANTI GnOP type. No solutions, no answers, just NO. Much like the rest of the know-nothings.
Does anyone recall a fellow who used to post here under the name Flat? He frequently asserted that home prices drop to the range of 100-120 times monthly rent on comparable properties at least once a decade. Now it seems qualified buyers are passing up the opportunity now available in some local markets to buy at this price level (e.g. $100,000 / $925 = 108).
Perhaps they suspect that with 10 million or so homes lurking in shadow inventory soon to hit the market, housing prices might have farther to fall before reaching a firm bottom?
* WEEKEND INVESTOR
* JANUARY 8, 2011
Still Renting After All These Years
The Trend Toward Rentals Shows No Signs of Easing—Even Among Those Who Could Easily Afford to Buy a Home
By M.P. MCQUEEN
Mortgage rates are near historic lows and homes are more affordable than they have been in memory. Yet some five years after the housing bust began, many people who could easily afford to buy are still choosing to rent.
…
Amanda Oberhausen of Alpharetta, Ga., near Atlanta, was enticed by low prices and incentives for first-time home buyers, and dipped her toe in the market last summer and fall. She looked at two-bedroom, 2½-bath townhouses—much like the one she was renting—selling for $100,000 to $150,000.
But as an account manager for a company that helps repossess printing equipment at defunct businesses, the 26-year-old couldn’t shake her concerns about job security and whether she would be able to sell if she had to relocate. Ultimately, after looking at four or five homes, some of them foreclosures and short sales, she decided to keep her $925-a-month rental.
“I started thinking about buying because homes were so cheap, but I couldn’t commit,” Ms. Oberhausen says. “I was just too nervous.”
…
It’s nice to be at the leading edge of a trend by a five-year lead time!
You might be joking, but I was royally unhappy that I couldn’t profit from the S&L disaster rebound.
“… the 26 year-old couldn’t shake her concerns about job security and whether she would be able to sell if she had to relocate.”
It wasn’t the PRICE that kept her from buying, it was the fear of becoming LOCKED-IN that kept her from buying.
If this is the case for many prospective buyers - this fear of becoming locked-in and not being able to relocate to meet employment requirements - then the risk premium of buying rises and hence the price of this risk factor also rises which means the price of the houses has to fall further than otherwise to compensate for this rise in the price of the ownership risk factor.
If there is a widespread premium put on mobility then it would be logical for the the cost of renting to be higher than the cost of buying.
Which means that it would be logical for ppl to become landlords.
I think you may have identified the reason so many smart San Diegans are landlords…
nah.
Smart cookie for not committing.
A federal judge and 9 year old child dead. A duly elected US congresswoman lie on her death bed. All because of a rightwing tea party nutjob worked up into a frenzy by your friends like Boehner, Armey, Palin, Angle, etc.
Are you happy now?
George Soros is a gold bug and certainly not right wing. Prove to me how the 22 year old is right wing.
1. Exeter - you are wacko nut job.
2. You don’t even have any facts - yet will blame anyone whom you disagree with for this tragedy. What kind of hate is in your heart?
3. Reports now state the shooter was an atheist whose FAVORITE books are Mein Kopf, The Communist Manifesto, and We The Living. He also posted on his youtube page that his favorite video was of an American flag burning.
4. The shooter is not even close to being a conservative, tea partier or Republican. In fact - you could easily make the case he is a hard core leftist.
5. In the next day or two as more facts come out - you will need to issue this entire board an apology for your hate inspired post.
+1
Excreter apologize for his rabid biased politics? Never.
Also the shooter is shown in one Arizona Star photo in 2010 where he volunteered at a book event. I thought leftist elites said all right wing people are too dumb to 1) volunteer and 2) to promote reading! Excreter, please ’splain this.
exeter - WHERE IS THE APOLOGY???
————————
Accused Tucson Gunman Described as ‘Pot-smoking Loner’
KTLA
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-jared-lee-loughner-profile,0,3468158.story
TUSCON, Ariz ( KTLA) — Jared Lee Loughner, the alleged Tucson gunman, was described Saturday as a politically radical loner. Now an internet trail emerged in which he apparently railed against the US government and told friends: “Please don’t be mad at me”.
There are unconfirmed reports that 22 year old Jared Lee Loughner once met with Rep. Giffords in 2007. A former high school friend said that he had often talked about meeting and talking with the congresswoman.
Arizona court records show Loughner has twice been charged with previous offenses. The first, in October 2007, related to the possession of drug paraphernalia. It was unclear what the second, a year later, related to. Both charges were dismissed after Loughner completed a “diversion program”.
People who knew him described him as philosophical, a person who read a lot of books. On his YouTube page, Loughner listed among his favorite books “The Communist Manifesto,” “Siddhartha,” “The Old Man And The Sea,” “Gulliver’s Travels,” “Mein Kampf,” “The Republic” and “Meno.”
One former high school friend Tweeted about knowing the accused gunman: “He was a pot head and into rock, like Hendrix, The Doors, Anti-Flag,” she wrote. “I haven’t seen him in person since 2007 in a sign language class. As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal and oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy. He had a lot of friends until he got alcohol poisoning in 2006 and dropped out of school. Mainly a loner, very philosophical.”
“Please don’t be mad at me”.
What a whining Jack Ass.
“He was a pot head and into rock, like Hendrix, The Doors, Anti-Flag,”
“The Communist Manifesto,”
What part of the “tea party” is that anyway? Did they open a new branch I didn`t hear about? Doesn`t matter whether he was a right wing or left wing nut, a 9 year old kid is gone, among others. He deserves the death penalty.
Another unstable bonafide Tear Party nut.
More facts just coming out -
The shooter worked for the congresswomen for re-election.
Looks like he was mad that the congresswomen voted against Pelosi as the House Speaker.
Your apology???
2Banana:
The singular of the word “women” is “woman”.
Also I went to the az star net web site. Found an article about the shooter. Among his favorite books are “The Communist Manifesto,” “Mein Kampf,” “animal Farm,” “We The Living.”
So which is he you bozo? Left wing whacko or right wing nut job? Oh never mind, you only see the world through red colored glasses.
The shooter is just a mad hatter . This shooter wacko was ranting online about dreams and all kind of weird stuff including a complaint that the year was wrong .
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_91db5db4-1b74-11e0-ba23-001cc4c002e0.html
Where is the evidence the nut is either right wing or left wing in the link above? Excreter you are an elitist, so maybe you can guide us.
Looks like Jared Loughner (the shooter) is gay.
Wonder what exeter’s reaction would be to a anti-gay hate rant and blaming all homosexuals for this shooting type posting?
APOLOGY???
exeter - You are a coward.
An atheist who hated military? That’s not the tea party I knew.
But Bile maintained he’s anti-tea party for years. Now look who’s first to come their defense…… what a phoney.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110108/ts_afp/germanypollutionenvironmentfoodagriculture
German animal feed (and meat products) contaminated with dioxin. Aren’t factory farming & food cartels grand?
So who is going to turn in their guns when the government decides to make owning them a felony?
Anyone out there pro-government?
They will have to take my gun out of my cold gray hands, then they can have it.
Now they are saying that they are looking for a second man in the shooting
and it was a older man . I don’t know if it’s just a party that knew something
or if they believe there was a second man . The authorities are saying that
they think the Congresswomen was the Target .
The shooter was rejected from going into the service but they won’t say
why .
It was probably just the kid who picked up on the tone that a federal judge received death threats and some people did not like Giffords. Therefore, by twisted reasoning, he went to shoot them. 22 is too young to be political, as you can see in the link above, no evidence of which politics. OTOH, an accomplice may have used a disturbed nutcase to do a political assassination without making it seem political. But there is no evidence of that. Only the whacko nut jobs make those assumptions!
Hitler was a catholic. Stalin was a jew.
Who is still a catholic? Who still practices Judaism?
Both mass murderers and staunch anti-gunners.
‘Who is still a catholic? Who still practices Judaism?’
I think they’re both dead.
Stalin was a Georgian. He attended a Georgian Orthodox seminary as a teenager. Trotsky was Jewish and Lenin was part Jewish. You must have gotten them confused.
Neither of them atheists.
Public officials increasingly at risk
By Chuck Raasch, Gannett National Writer
WASHINGTON — Even before Saturday’s tragic shooting in Arizona that left Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., gravely wounded and a federal judge and at least five others dead, there were signs that threats to public officials were on the rise.
The threats and Saturday’s horrific violence come at a time when many Americans, in the midst of heated debates over important issues, also demand that their members of Congress be available to them. Giffords was doing that in a “Congress on the corner” gathering Saturday at a Tucson grocery store, when a gunman opened fire.
…
Lint …do you really think they are going to take away all guns because of
a nut cake shooting people at a public event . Look at the nut shooters
at post offices ,at schools ,at fast food restaurants .
I don’t know if there is going to be a increase in events like this because there are more nut cakes out there ,but there are a lot of influences that
are causing these sort of events that have nothing to do with the method that is used such as a gun .
“If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an_out_right_ban, picking up every one of them… ‘Mr. and Mrs. America, turn ‘em all in,’ I would have done it. I_could_not do that. The votes weren’t here.”
–U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein, CBS-TV’s “60 Minutes,” February 5, 1995
Lint …do you really think they are going to take away all guns because of
a nut cake shooting people at a public event .’
Ever heard of the Brady bill and slippery slope boil the frog?
Realty Q&A
Jan. 7, 2011, 12:01 a.m. EST
Underwater on the house — and close to retirement
Before mailing in the keys, talk to a housing counselor for help
By Lew Sichelman
Realty Q&A is a weekly column in which Lew Sichelman, a nationally syndicated columnist who has been covering the housing market for more than 35 years, responds to readers’ questions on real estate.
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Question: I would appreciate your help on this topic. I have read various articles on MarketWatch that you have written and have been looking for more detailed information. My wife and I own a home in California that is underwater. We owe about $950,000 and it is now valued, if it went to foreclosure, at around $650,000.
We are both 62, still working, and have already purchased retirement homes in Oregon and in Hawaii before our California home collapsed in value. We rent the retirement homes at break-even. We are willing to rent in the area we work for the next several years until retirement.
If we mail in the keys, I don’t want to lose everything else. I think I should talk to a bankruptcy attorney before we do. Is this the right adviser to speak with or can you recommend someone else? —J.H.
…
We are both 62, still working, and have already purchased retirement homes in Oregon and in Hawaii before our California home collapsed in value. We rent the retirement homes at break-even. We are willing to rent in the area we work for the next several years until retirement.
Why do I feel no pity for these fools?
Why do I think they took out massive amounts of equity from an almost paid off CA house to build not ONE but TWO retirement homes?
And these will be the people demanding a bailout.
They will benefit twice if the Fed succeeds in turning around housing price deflation.
I have no pity for them either. Laughter though, and a lot of that.
If this kid is a wacko then what are the mass murdering, mass raping, and mass stealing US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan?
It is interesting that the posters on this board waste no time in condeming an American killing and shooting Americans for no logical reason yet none of you can say same about the psycho US trtoops doing the same thing and much worse abroad.
Americans are so lame. What an embarrassment.
If this kid is a wacko then what are the mass murdering, mass raping, and mass stealing US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Do you have any EVIDENCE of the above or are you just talking out you ass?
Try to get out of you parent’s basement more.
Oh, please. The USA conducts wars of roses not bombs.
In your dream, buddy! Get a foking clue?
Oh look…another typical American in abject denial. Do you actually believe that the feds in the middle east are not committing mass mureder? Americans kill their own without any hesitation.
Lint, what are you talking about? He was mentally ill. We can glean that from his YouTube posts. It’s just a shame this wasn’t noticed and treated earlier.
Yes, there are other wackos too. Some of them are raping and murdering people in Iraq and Afghanistan. How does that make this particular incident any less disturbing?
Posters get upity about this gunman yet refuse to address the exact same thing being perpetrated in the mid east by American nut jobs.
Now that these military psychos are coming home and murdering Americans it is becoming concerning? Payback is a what?
ZYou troop supporters honestly believe that US soldiers will NOT blow your head clean off when order to do so for oh….whatever reason?
That I even bring this up is cause for an government goon visit?
Americans truly are pathetic slaves living in abject fear of their own moronic government.
Get back to work so yas can pay your perpetual war taxes…hyperinflation and ultra high confiscatory taxes will take the rest.
He’s former military and a gun knut which begets the question;
What makes a grown man so afraid of everything around him that he needs guns? What is this pathology?
“What makes a grown man so afraid of everything around him that he needs guns?”
pathology?
How about desire to live.
How about a desire Not to be a victim.
You don’t live in a bad neighborhood, or read websites like ProLiberate much, do you?
That should be, Pro Libertate.
How about a Meth house next door and a gang hangout across the street, and scared to even walk at 10pm to the 7-11 3 blocks away…without getting mugged or have the house broken into….just for some toilet paper
Excreter was born with a gold spoon. Probably went to private white only leftist schools like Amy Carter did when fat lips Jimmy was destroying America in the late 1970s and pushing for integration. so it is obvious excreter sees no need for guns to protect himself. He has been in a sheltered and pampered life all his life. Of course on the other side, you see most people who grew up in lower middle class become libertarian or anything but leftwing. All it takes is to observe recipients of welfare and housing assistance.
Give us the link to prove he was in the military Mr. Nutcase.
Ironic is that you you are probably pro military which is obviously a huge supporter of guns and murder.
“It is interesting that the posters on this board waste no time in condeming an American killing and shooting Americans for no logical reason yet none of you can say same about the psycho US trtoops doing the same thing and much worse abroad.”
“Americans are so lame. What an embarrassment.”
If I was an FBI agent and I saw a rant like that, I would take a long hard look at you. If you will excuse me I am going to say a prayer for the victims of this tragedy, our troops in harms way and go to bed. I have to get up early tomorrow, I am going to the range to zero my AK47. Good night.
P.S.
You spelled condeming and trtoops wrong.
The Latest U.S. Military Secret: Drop Weapons
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/73758.html
Not so nice little video.
If I was an FBI agent and I saw a rant like that, I would take a long hard look at you.”
Which proves my point.
Americans love the police state and desire it to be much more aggressive toward their own.
No one hates America like Americans.
You support psychos pretending to be US troops. You are a nut job.
Why not say a prayer for the victims of the US soldiers instead you nut?
Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals
RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)
Linky?
“…condeming an American killing and shooting Americans for no logical reason…”
Get help, fast…
Jared Lee Loughner; the renaissance of extreme conservatism and end result of PAlienites and corporate interests whipping up dumb folks into a frenzy.
You are just as nutty as the shooter. It is obvious you brand him right wing yet any person other than you can easily see he was just politically ignorant of left-right. You dig yourself into a deeper hole and all of us just laugh at your lunacy.
Running and denying Jared’s bonafide Tear Party status doesn’t do much to change that fact Bile.
You are just as nutty as the shooter…..You dig yourself into a deeper hole and all of us just laugh at your lunacy.
bill,
I think you’d be happier with yourself later by just calming down a bit.
Beware of new zombie bank fees:
How to slay new checking account fees
As bank fees rise like zombies on your checking account, slay new charges by making direct deposits, keeping minimum balances or swiping your card more.
By Blake Ellis, staff reporter
January 8, 2011: 2:29 PM ET
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) — It’s like Night of the Living Dead: Every time the feds kill off a set of fees, they come back to life — just in slightly different forms.
Chase said that on Feb. 8 it will be enrolling new customers in a new Total Checking account and charging them a $12 monthly maintenance fee.
Similarly, Bank of America announced that by the end of the year it would restructure its checking accounts and implement new monthly fees, ranging from $8.95 to $25. And unless you analyze its four new checking offerings carefully to find the one that best fits your spending habits, you could end up paying anywhere between $100 and $300 extra in fees per year.
“I think it’s a fact that there’s a new economic reality and regulations,” said Susan Faulkner, Bank of America’s deposits and card product executive.
…
It looks as though the housing market may face a dearth of buyers as well as homes for sale this year, suggesting a possible bottoming out of transactions volume. Eventually the glut of homes in mortgage default will come back on the market, driving prices down to the bottom, but this is looking increasingly likely to happen some time after 2011.
Facing Scrutiny, Banks Slow Pace of Foreclosures
By DAVID STREITFELD
Published: January 8, 2011
PHOENIX — An array of federal and state investigations into the way banks foreclose on delinquent homeowners has contributed to a sharp slowdown in foreclosures across the country, especially in hard-hit cities like this one.
Over the last several months, some banks have been reluctant to seize homes from distressed borrowers, economists and government officials say, as they face scrutiny from regulators and the prospect of sanctions when investigations wrap up in the coming weeks and months.
The Obama administration, in its most recent housing report, said foreclosure activity fell 21 percent in November from October, the biggest monthly decline in five years. Here in Phoenix, foreclosures fell by more than a third in the same period, reflected in the severe drop in foreclosed homes being auctioned on the courthouse plaza.
“There’s no product, just nothing to buy,” complained Sean Waak, an agent for investors, during a recent auction.
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