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Can someone please explain again how the ’second amendment solution’ isn’t a call to violence? Because I don’t think everybody is getting the message.
The first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence is a call for eternal vigilance against big government. The second amendment guarantees we have the other nine in the bill of rights.
So when, after losing an election or a vote, the losing party starts shouting about a second amendment solution, they’re just proclaiming that they believe in the Constitution?
I never heard about this “second amendment solution,” I am confident most people did not hear about it either. Relax.
The solution is eventual revolution. Thomas Jefferson said as much in the D of I. It will happen spontaneously when people had enough of big government. There will be a lot of government employees, some elected officials too, who will leave government out of disgust and join in the libertarian revolution. It could be decades from now, but will be inevitable. Unfortunately there could be bloodshed. Hope not, but libertarians are ardent believers in justice and retaliatory (as opposed to initiated) force.
Here Bile…. Just so you can stop playing stupid with everyone here.
Second Amendment Remedies Come To Life”
http://tinyurl.com/282vdu9
Can someone please explain again how the ’second amendment solution’ isn’t a call to violence?
Alpha is just regurgitating something he read somewhere else as I saw the same question being asked in a number of other forums yesterday. Either that or Alpha is turning out to be quite the drama queen.
A “second amendment remedy” is precisely and explicitly a call to arms.
Nice try though.
A “second amendment remedy” is precisely and explicitly a call to arms.
Why is the second amendment remedy being brought up? Is it because of the shooting? More drama? Should they outlaw guns in Arizona? The shooter was an advocate of gold. Sounds like he was a Ron Paul follower. How would this equate to a tea party follower? Are tea party followers now a bunch of dissenters and as such should follow the government’s lead? Why did they cancel next week’s vote on health care?
Nice try though.
It wasn’t the second amendment remedy that caused the shooting. It was the …..wait for it….. Internet. Perhaps it’s time to reign in the Internet.
FBI Director Robert Mueller reiterated that it was still “premature” to say why Loughner targeted Giffords. But he acknowledged the vast amount of inflammatory rhetoric on the internet had made it more difficult for law enforcement agencies to identify and track potential threats.
“The ubiquitous nature of the internet means that not only threats, but hate speech and other inciteful speech is much more readily available to individuals than quite clearly it was eight or ten or fifteen years ago,” Mueller said. “That absolutely presents a challenge for us, particularly when it results in what would be lone wolves or lone offenders undertaking attacks.”
Her Dad sure didn’t pull any punches when he was quoted as saying…
“The congresswoman’s father Spencer Gifford, 75, was rushing to the hospital when asked if his 40-year-old daughter had any enemies.
“Yeah,” he told The Post. “The whole Tea Party.”
He added that politicians constantly faced danger.
“They always get threat[ened],” Gifford said, sobbing. “We don’t really have any information. The police department was supposed to call us but they didn’t.”
Hasn’t Sarah Palin wrapped herself in the Tea Party mantle? Don’t let her outward appearance fool you — the hockey mom is bulldog ugly inside.
See? Her father knows precisely who is responsible for his daughters attempted murder. The Tear Party better known as the American Taliban. Their record of their followers making threats, showing up armed to the teeth at “rallies” and Tear Party candidates coaxing their crazy conspiracy driven followers take violent action against duly elected officials is well documented. Now it has happened.
exeter,
Are you saying that they (anyone associated with the Tea Party) are all guilty of murder? You know this? Seems rather Nazi like thinking.
Ask Congresswoman Gifford’s father. He’s been personally affected by TearParty/Nazi-like thinking.
(anyone associated with the Tea Party) are all guilty of murder ??
Exeter is likely not suggesting that but, If you are a tea party member and you embrace instead of condemn the vitriol that comes from the so called “leaders” of the party (Palin/Beck) then I would tend to agree with Exeter’s statement…
“Their record of their followers making threats, showing up armed to the teeth at “rallies” and Tear Party candidates coaxing their crazy conspiracy driven followers take violent action against duly elected officials is well documented.”
Where is this “documented”?
I saw one story of a black man carrying a firearm over his shoulder that made the national press as “evidence” that the tea party movement was a bunch of right-wing radical nuts.
What record of making threats, and being “armed to the teeth”, do you have, other than fantasy stories you spread amongst your friends?
There’s this internets thingy called google. It’s your friend. There’s even something called journalism and it’s found just about anywhere except on Fox news. Try it sometime.
—-Ask Congresswoman Gifford’s father. He’s been personally affected by TearParty/Nazi-like thinking.—-
is someon e who is “personally affected” and in grief qualified to give an analysis, or does he speak but from grief and rage.
Is the 20 year old killer’s embrace of the Communist Manifesto proof of his membership in the Tea Party?
Exeter seems to be very McCarthy-ish here. No?
Exeter is hysterical.
Is my diligent study of the Old Testament proof of me being jewish?
You’re way out there. Waaaay out.
It’s not your reading that we are commenting on, it’s your conclusions and your ranting.
Don’t take my word for it. READ Giffords fathers words.
“The congresswoman’s father Spencer Gifford, 75, was rushing to the hospital when asked if his 40-year-old daughter had any enemies.
“Yeah,” he told The Post. “The whole Tea Party.”
Below is an excellent article re the insane killer with a lot of personal quotes. No where did he profess any love/devotion for Palin/Rush or the Tea Party.
Cut and paste to read.
http://azdailysun (dot) com/news/local/state-and-regional/article_663d67a8-0e82-569b-a2fe-46306174e1fe.html
Below is an excellent article re the insane killer with a lot of personal quotes. No where did he profess any love/devotion for Palin/Rush or the Tea Party.
Who cares what that nutball said or who he loves Rancher?
Are you defending the “targeting”, “reloading” and violent symbolism used by the Tea-Party, Palin and Rush?
Are you?
Well the Arizona star just posted the authorities cleared the older man of interest. He is just a cabbie who gave Loughner a ride. So once again it looks as though this is all about a lone nut job gunman who enjoys pot and the Communist Manifesto, hey - commonality with excreter!
The loonies railing against all those groups and individual pundits Loughner never even mention should be embarrassed about their jump to conclusions. By the way, also they just announced he is faced with five federal charges, including murder of a federal judge. From his web sites, he seemed to expect to die anyway. Someone should have intervened years ago to euthanize the punk.
So once again it looks as though this is all about a lone nut job gunman
Who cares if the nutball acted alone bill? Who cares what his politics were?
Are you defending the “targeting”, “reloading” and violent symbolism used by the Tea-Party, Palin and Rush?
Are you?
I posted once here today I reject the Tea Party and Sara Palin. Get a brain. I am illustrating merely that your tie of Loughner to the TP and Palin is as much sense as blaming Adam Sandler for the death of Abraham Lincoln.
IAW, I am ROTFLMFAO at the bunch of you for your lack of reasoning. I had better reasoning by the time I was ten years old.
they just announced he is faced with five federal charges, including murder of a federal judge
All animals are equal. Some are just more equal than others.
I am illustrating merely that your tie of Loughner to the TP and Palin is as much sense as blaming Adam Sandler for the death of Abraham Lincoln.
I never tied Loughner to the TP or Palin. Mine was a greater point therefore it is no wonder that you missed it. Your rigid “number’s” and linear type thinking combined with preconceived, erroneous notions misses many poster’s subtle points.
My today’s greater point repeated by cut and paste:
…there are nuts.
Violent rhetoric and symbolism will affect nuts of any party.
Violent rhetoric and symbolism should not be used by any of our 2 political parties.
But violent rhetoric and symbolism were used by the GOP. They thought it was patriotically “edgie” in a warped way.
They are desperately running from this fact but they can’t hide from it.
So bill, do you disagree with any of the above and why?
Go easy on exeter. He’s carrying around a lot of guilt.
Alpha, you’re quite right, not everybody is getting it…
“During his campaign effort to unseat Giffords in November, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event.
“I don’t see the connection,” between the fundraisers featuring weapons and Saturday’s shooting, said John Ellinwood, Kelly’s spokesman. “I don’t know this person, we cannot find any records that he was associated with the campaign in any way. I just don’t see the connection.”
“We don’t have proof yet that this was political, but the odds are that it was. She’s been the target of violence before. And for those wondering why a Blue Dog Democrat, the kind Republicans might be able to work with, might be a target, the answer is that she’s a Democrat who survived what was otherwise a GOP sweep in Arizona, precisely because the Republicans nominated a Tea Party activist. (Her father says that “the whole Tea Party” was her enemy.) And yes, she was on Sarah Palin’s infamous “crosshairs” list.”- Krugman, NY Times
People use violent symbolism that has the potential to inspire nut cases but when they “can’t find any records he was associated with the campaign” they can’t see any connection or conceive how others might find it similar to falsely shouting fire in a crowded theater.
I am confused. I caught parts of the media coverage yesterday. I didn’t know her party affiliation, but based on her support of the new Arizona immigration law, as portrayed by the MSM on the TV last night, and her various other “conservative” positions they were presenting, I thought she was a Republican. I was simply amazed that the Democrats were so generous in their support for her, even Cathy Castor here in Florida, and Obama making a speech. I was touched by their concern for the other side.
Are you saying she is a Democrat? It’s not the impression I got from the press. They never did say.
I must also believe, now, that in spite of the coverage, she did NOT support the Arizona law for dealing with illegal aliens, but most likely opposed it. Should have known whatever was on the TV was misleading. It always is.
I’ll do some googling this morning to get to the bottom of this.
She is a moderate Democrat. Calls herself a Blue Dog. She is in favor of much better border enforcement, but the NY Times article says she opposes the new Arizona Law. Just as a side note, since she isn’t in the Arizona legislature, her opposition is indicative of her thinking but is irrelevant on a practical level.
The biggest misstatement that was propagated through most of the coverage yesterday was that she was responding to commands AFTER her surgery. I listened to the doc, and he said she was responding to commands before the surgery when she was first brought in. He explicitly stated that she was still under anesthesia at time he gave the conference. I think someone played a partial clip for Dr. Sanjay Gupta who then said that responding to commands after the surgery was a good sign and everyone just kept quoting him instead of the actual doctor. A producer should have caught that one. That is their job.
fer cryin’ out loud. Oh, yeah, let’s get it started how it’s always someone else’s fault. I’m not persuaded to go out and shoot someone by photos of military gear and M-16s, are you? Clearly, the guy was disturbed and had been for a long time.
Maybe the guy is just a nut.
Hinkley (another nut) shot President Reagan because he was in love with Jodie Foster.
Does one really expect of find a reasonable explanation for what drives a nut to do what nuts do?
He gives the appearance of someone who’s not happy with the way things are.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHoaZaLbqB4
Many people are not happy with the way things are. They work in positive fashion- some even vote- to make things better.
Just saying the use of firearm phraseology and symbolism shows a lack of fore sight, understanding, and intelligence.
We are sorely lacking in mature political discourse on all sides.
Palin controversy after Giffords shooting
In this Oct. 23, 2010 file photo, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin speaks to supporters at a Republican National Committee rally in Orlando, Fla. (AP Photo/John Raoux, File)
Posted: 01/08/2011
Last Updated: 9 hours and 6 minutes ago
PHOENIX - The shooting of Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords has prompted an outpouring of sympathy from politicians, including Sarah Palin.
…
But just months ago, Giffords’ support of the health care bill drew sharp criticism from politicians like Palin, who listed Giffords’ seat as one of the top “targets” in the midterm elections .
…
Just saying the use of firearm phraseology and symbolism shows a lack of fore sight, understanding, and intelligence.
Would you say that of anyone who uses firearm/war terminology in their metaphors, whether written, spoken, or illustrated?
Do a google news search for the term “targeted”. Or “crosshairs”. Or “in sights.” Or “war on “.
It’s a pervasive metaphor/colloquialism. SarahPAC isn’t even slightly unique in this regard.
It’s a pervasive metaphor/colloquialism. SarahPAC isn’t even slightly unique in this regard.
All that matters now is that in much of the public’s mind….
she owns it.
But just months ago, Giffords’ support of the health care bill drew sharp criticism from politicians like Palin, who listed Giffords’ seat as one of the top “targets” in the midterm elections .
PBear, are you making any commentary here (implicity), or just sharing the article?
Just because someone opposes another’s position doesn’t mean they wish them ill, or don’t wish them to get better should they fall ill, so I’m not sure I see the significance of these two things, as your quote seems to imply.
It may turn out that there’s a connection in all this (so far I’ve not heard of one…no proof that the shooter was involved in the tea party and that the SarahPAC map inspired him, and moreover, that the map was intended as a call to physical violence), but I really can’t help but feel that people are totally overreacting to the use of the term “target”, in light of this event.
Such terminology/phraseology is used EVERYWHERE. I’m sure it’s used in Obama campaign literature (as well as McCain and any other politician). I can find numerous cases of certain democratic organizations “targetting” the republicans who voted against the stimulus bill, etc, etc. It’s pervasive in politics. I don’t see how one can somehow present it as some insidious phraseology when it comes to SarahPAC, yet yet every other usage is innocent? Simply based on the word choice.
but I really can’t help but feel that people are totally overreacting to the use of the term “target”, in light of this event.
You should just get used to it. Really. You’re not going to be able to change people’s observations of reality and their rational conclusions. It’s counterproductive to your cause to try.
All that matters now is that in much of the public’s mind….
she owns it.
I agree this is an issue, but those of us who realize it’s common could inject rationality into the discourse, helping to stop those reacting irrationally.
Facts are important.
You’re not going to be able to change people’s observations of reality and their rational conclusions.
Wow, nice underhanded approach to the discussion. So you’re saying it’s rational to completely ignore the fact that it’s common terminology, and to vilify someone who uses it because an unconnected 3rd party takes some action?
So you’re saying it’s rational to completely ignore the fact that it’s common terminology, and to vilify someone who uses it because an unconnected 3rd party takes some action?
Please get real.
There is only one faction that uses that type of inflammatory symbolism in combination with their being identified with firearms, the second amendment, violent rhetoric, violent wars, being told by Palin to “don’t retreat but to RELOAD”, putting bull’s eyes on political “targets” and bringing guns to “political” gatherings.
Do you expect people to believe your feeble argument or their own “lying” eyes?
Verily.
Rio now gives “proof” that liking Jodi Foster is the cause of violence against leaders.
Do you expect people to believe your feeble argument
Any my argument is feeble, how, exactly? And what is my argument?
So, please correct me if I’m mis-characterizing your points:
1) If you happen to be a gun-owner or hunt, then using the term “targeting” has a different meaning than if you don’t own a gun and hunt?
2) “Don’t retreat but reload” means that you should assassinate people rather than as another way of saying “stand tall, don’t retreat”?
3) Bringing a gun (which is completely legal, by the way) to a political event in support of the 2nd amendment/protesting gun restrictions is a threat, and not possibly a demonstration of the rights they’re protesting in support of? I guess people protesting to support the 1st amendment shouldn’t bring any signs or say anything, then?
Some people live different lifestyles than you, Rio. They have different common phrases. You should try stepping back and evaluating what they say from their point of view, rather than imposing your own. “City folk” and those who live a rural life that involves self-reliance, hunting for sustenance and protecting oneself and livestock from predators might just use gun/hunting terminology in everyday conversations because it’s actually part of their daily life!!
Rio now gives “proof” that liking Jodi Foster is the cause of violence against leaders.
evildoc,
Show me one of my posts in the context of a post I was answering that could lead you to make such a stupid remark.
You can’t and if you do I will answer it and reveal you as logically flawed again.
Those who like Jodi Foster tried to kill a leader.
Proof Proof Proof it is bad to like Jodi Foster.
cheers
Your evildoc
Proof Proof Proof it is bad to like Jodi Foster.
Now that was really intelligent evildoc. And it proved my point.
“PBear, are you making any commentary here (implicity), or just sharing the article?”
I was sharing the article in the hopes that others could conclude for themselves the depths of shasta our country will find itself if Sarah Palin ever makes it to the White House. Does that clear it up for you? I clearly recall what my 80+ year old mother had to say when McCain selected her as his running mate: ‘She scares me.’
“SarahPAC isn’t even slightly unique in this regard.”
I call bullshasta on that. Kindly post evidence that any other modern candidate for a position in the White House has used the cross hairs of a gun in campaign materials targeting political opponents, or retract your statement.
So, please correct me if I’m mis-characterizing your points:
You miss the whole point. The deal is again:
There is only one faction that uses “targeting” and “reloading” of inflammatory symbolism in combination with their being identified with firearms, the second amendment, violent rhetoric, violent wars, being told by Palin to “don’t retreat but to RELOAD”, putting bull’s eyes on political “targets” and bringing guns to “political” gatherings.
Why are you “shocked, shocked” that most thinking people DO consider that kind of crap inflammatory?
You own it.
City folk” and those who live a rural life
You talk jive when it comes to me. You don’t know my background. I would bet I can out-shoot 98% of this board’s posters. Don’t give me your “city folk” “country-boy” cornballisims.
‘It may turn out that there’s a connection in all this (so far I’ve not heard of one…no proof that the shooter was involved in the tea party and that the SarahPAC map inspired him, and moreover, that the map was intended as a call to physical violence), but I really can’t help but feel that people are totally overreacting to the use of the term “target”, in light of this event.’
Based on what I know today, I don’t believe there is any kind directed action by the Tea Partiers to hire local community college dropout nut jobs to target their political opponents.
But there is a more subtle issue here which you seem to miss: Showing your political opponents’ congressional districts in the site of a gun has the potential to legitimize heinous acts such as yesterday’s massacre in the minds of unstable individuals. That is why I find Sarah Palin’s choice of metaphor to be evidential of poor judgment. Moreover, I see it as part of a pattern which suggests our nation would be at great risk if she ever succeeds in rising to power. Given the politically volatile times in which we live, this is a risk which I do not take lightly.
Haven’t you heard? Everyone is a predator and we need to be armed to the teeth to hang out at bars or dine in restaurants, and if we aren’t in love with guns we are against freedom. What is it about the 2nd amendment that brings out all the Neanderthals? What would Freud say?
And No, I could care less if you want an arsenal in your house, go for it. What I do object to is the mentality that it’s normal to pack a loaded gun to go shopping at a grocery store in suburbia. That has nothing to do with preserving our freedom against government tyranny. It’s a fetish.
Kindly post evidence that any other modern candidate for a position in the White House has used the cross hairs of a gun in campaign materials targeting political opponents, or retract your statement.
You’ll see no such retraction. First off, it’s the PAC, not necessarily Sarah herself (they may be one in the same, I’m not sure). Secondly, the targets were on congressional districts, not political opponents. Thirdly, I do not see a difference between using the word “targeting” and using an illustration that means the same thing. I’m guessing you do - that’s your prerogative, I suppose, but I’d love to hear how the illustration is fundamentally worse than the words being spoken.
And I’m happy to provide plenty of examples of republicans, democrats, charitable orgs, etc, using gun terminology in their operations.
BTW - Palin is not a candidate for the White House. In fact she holds no political office at the moment, and is not officially running for any either.
“I could care less if you want an arsenal in your house, go for it.”
You don’t perchance live next door to the Serbian fellow who had a home bomb factory, do you? I don’t mind neighbors who own firearms; makes me feel safer, in fact. It’s the bomb factory guys who scare me.
We’ve got plenty of Tea Party nutjobs around her.
A bunch of them have this attitude like “If we don’t get our way, it’s time to start shooting, because we are justified in overthrowing this tyrannical government”.
And what if the majority isn’t buying in to turning back the governmental and societal clock back to 1890? Well, obviously you aren’t smart enough to understand. And besides, they think that a total societal meltdown will be a win-win situation for them.
Fortunately, when it comes to actually starting an armed revolution, they are mostly bulldog mouth and puppydog ass.
Words mean something. If they didn’t, why are they all dumping all their websites with all this “put the Liberals in your crosshairs” language?
Rio, it’s no point trying to have a discourse with you when you refuse to address the actual subject being discussed or the statements I actually make. If you want to take terms and slogans out of context, be my guest. If you want to put words in my mouth and construct a strawman argument, be my guest.
I made the mistake of thinking you were actually up for a legitimate and honest discussion on the subject.
why are they all dumping all their websites with all this “put the Liberals in your crosshairs” language?
Neither of us can claim to know what they’re thinking, but is everyone really unwilling to consider it’s simply a metaphor?
I made the mistake of thinking you were actually up for a legitimate and honest discussion on the subject.
No, obviously your mistake was thinking you were up for one.
— Per Rio Now that was really intelligent evildoc. And it proved my point.—
That Rio, like so many, doesn’t get it is proof of my point.
Remember, Jodi Foster worship was at the root of this act today
…Rio now gives “proof” that liking Jodi Foster is the cause of violence against leaders.
evildoc,
As I said before, Show me one of my posts in the context of a post I was answering that could lead you to make such a stupid remark.
You will not answer this directly because you know I will answer you and you will again be made to look foolish.
So just do yourself a favor and retort with another vapid Jodi Foster post.
Because remember, you’re a DOCTOR, not an effective debater.
…Rio now gives “proof” that liking Jodi Foster is the cause of violence against leaders.
…Rio now gives “proof” that liking Jodi Foster is the cause of violence against leaders.
You’re wise knowing your limitations when directly debating me doc. You have experience in this subject.
No go rent Taxi Driver and relax.
…Rio now gives “proof” that liking Jodi Foster is the cause of violence against leaders.
Hmmm… this is relaxing
…Rio now gives “proof” that liking Jodi Foster is the cause of violence against leaders.
Hey doc, I like it!
Your new style of slash and burn posting of one sentence nonsense works better for you because you don’t reveal enough to look totally foolish.
It’s only when you try to formulate complete paragraphs with complex ideas that you get in over your head.
No, obviously your mistake was thinking you were up for one.
I know you are but what am I?
I know you are but what am I?
Funny, but late.
I guess I just don’t have the dedication to be a true HBB pro :-).
“Because remember, you’re a DOCTOR, not an effective debater.”
I’ll give one point for the Trek reference. Nice!
Anyway, if we’re to take the two sides of this argument and break it down….
Seems one side’s major point is that Sarah Palin and the Tea Party play fast and loose with irresponsible gun-related political metaphors for political gain. True!
Seems the other side’s major point is that Sarah Palin and the
Tea Party should not be held responsible for the actions of some nut who may or may not have gotten a rush from said political imagery (cross-hairs, etc), and who may or may not agree with the TP’s politics. Also true.
And I’d guess that party #2 (evildoc, drumminj, bill in Tampa et al) would probably agree that the imagery used in Sarah’s map, given her political power, was ill-advised–and they’d say it on this forum if those on the other side weren’t needlessly implying that this was either planned or foreseeable.
Stop being reasonable, it will ruin the fun for everyone.
I’m not persuaded to go out and shoot someone by photos of military gear and M-16s, are you?
No, but we’re not nuts.
But there are nuts.
Violent rhetoric and symbolism will affect nuts of any party.
Violent rhetoric and symbolism should not be used by any of our 2 political parties.
But violent rhetoric and symbolism were used by the GOP. They thought it was patriotically “edgie” in a warped way.
They are desperately running from this fact but they can’t hide from it.
If he did attend tea party events, watch fox, beck etc
Then not blaming them for this event is like not blaming Osama bin Ladin for 9/11 and other terrorist events.
that’s the most ridiculous argument i have ever heard. no one in those “groups” you have identified as the enemy has advocated gunning down opponents.
Osama Bin has advocated killing us by any means they can. Since he and his followers live on the other side of the world, I don’t even give a hoot what Osama Bin says. The problem here was letting his “followers” enter into our country. Freely.
Our “homeland security” department still does, while strip searching American Citizens, looking for some clue about what they might could possibly do with a pin-knife or a set of nail clippers.
People, under our system of laws, are responsible for their own actions. Even is someone advocates violence, the ultimate person responsible is the perpetrator.
There are lots of Realtors who advocated buying houses at the top of the housing boom. Are they responsible because so many morons did? If so, then the BK FB’s should be suing them, not the banks.
+ A-bunch RIO…….Spot On….
“Osama Bin has advocated ”
Osama Bin? You do know that isn’t just a first and middle name like Billy Bob, right? Bin means “son of” in Arabic. The Hebrew cognate is “ben.”
Showing your political opponents’ congressional districts in the site of a gun has the potential to legitimize heinous acts such as yesterday’s massacre in the minds of unstable individuals.
Do you feel that’s not the case when democrats say they’re “targeting” republicans that voted against the stimulus package? If so, please clarify why one has that potential and the other doesn’t, because I’m failing to see how you (or others) are making this distinction.
So, if a Muslim creates a website featuring a map with the location of various Christian churches around the U.S. marked with mushroom clouds, that’d be just fine with all of those defending Palin’s crosshairs, right? I mean, that’s just innocent symbolism, right? People talk about “nuking” the opposition in everyday speech. Nobody would be concerned.
So, if a Muslim creates a website featuring a map with the location of various Christian churches around the U.S. marked with mushroom clouds, that’d be just fine with all of those defending Palin’s crosshairs, right? I mean, that’s just innocent symbolism, right?
Yes, of course, because “mushroom” and “mushrooming” is just a “generic term” used by a lot of Muslim agronomists and “country-folk” farmers in their everyday “awe shucks”, corn-pone type language.
For example, rural Muslims putting a mushroom cloud on the Christian church’s locations could just mean that the church’s membership is “mushrooming” as in getting bigger.
That’s all.
So, if a Muslim creates a website featuring a map with the location of various Christian churches around the U.S. marked with mushroom clouds
I think that would be more akin to having the gun sights on the faces of the congress members, rather than on their districts, given that you can’t really “shoot” a district/geographic location with a gun. I also don’t think the term “nuking” is as pervasive as the terms “targeting” or “have sights set on”, etc.
But still an interesting hypothetical to consider.
Amendment 1:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Most Americans do not realize that the freedom of speech, when exercised, is the most powerful check against tyranny. Sure guns can check a bad government until the people are so stupid as to fear and love the tyranny as is now the case in America.
American government with the consent(tacit) of Americans is attempting to dominate and destroy the planet and has demonstrated that Americans themselves are mere cattle to fund the process. Americans imprison themselves at 2.5M incarcerated and desire to imprison and intimidate the globe.
Freedom and natural rights are being(have been) outlawed. Only outlaws dare assume they are at liberty.
All you supporters of US troops and American domination really have not thought things through.
The troops will impose the will of the controlling psychos upon you as has been repeatedly demonstrated inside and outside America.
You are building your cages and gallows.
We are guaranteed the right to free speech but we are not guaranteed the right to be heard. You can say or write all you want but we don’t have to hear or read any of it.
Amazing to watch the financial implosion and the unrest that comes with it. This may truly become a summer of discontent. The fabric of America is quickly unravelling into little bands give-mes’ rather then uniting to patch to holes for all.
It is my opinion, that the firms that take off negative comments about UHS, or negative employee or ex-employee comments on the internet are obstructing free speech. I use to frequent a “job venting” website, where I read both sides, but now not one negative comment is left. Same thing for UHS reviews. What’s up with that?
“Reputation Defender” my arse. Many deserve their reputations!
It is my opinion, that the firms that take off negative comments about UHS, or negative employee or ex-employee comments on the internet are obstructing free speech.
While that’s certainly unfortunate, the first amendment applies to the government restricting speech, not private entities. Especially if it’s using their property (ie their website/forums/etc).
Regardless, I agree that the scrubbing of negative comments is a huge disservice to all. Whether it’s product reviews on amazon, reviews on yelp, etc. But this is where the free market comes into play - avoid the sites that scrub negative comments, and patronize those that don’t.
lint:
I am probably not the first person to tell you this, but I think you need to see a counselor. I think you should go to a counselor and say “A lot of people have been telling me that they think I should see a professional”. The counselor may be able to help you figure out why so many people keep saying this to you.
Can someone please explain again how the ’second amendment solution’ isn’t a call to violence?
No. But then again I don’t like to lie or look stupid.
Sure you argue like one.
Sure you argue like one.
?? lol “Sure I argue like one”??
Here’s a free piece of advice butters. (and it’s funny too)
If you’re going to imply someone is stupid, do it in a properly constructed sentence. Otherwise you resemble the implication.
Why can’t people rebel against things in a intelligent manner .Look at Gandi and Martin Luther King .Taking your business
elsewhere or boycotting is a effective peaceful method .Voting is suppose to
be a method of making your voice count . Certainly the right of
free speech to state your opinion is a right that people would not want to lose just because a certain percentage abuse it .
Some of the symbols of guns and things like that could cause a
mad hatter to get the wrong idea ,for that matter a bizarre
Movie that Hollywood holds the right to produce could cause a nut to reek violence .
A number of years ago the POPE came to American and he made a speech and he warned Hollywood in essence that it was important what
they were producing and they better think about the influences
they have on people.
When you have large segments of the population dissatisfied with the state of affairs of the Nation it does have the potential
of people rebelling in a violent manner . Look at some of the violence that has broken out in other Countries over things like
cut backs and schools raising prices .
Nobody that is normal wants violence .People are uptight right now and it’s a condition that can put unstable people over the edge .Murder is a violation of law ,pure and simple ,but group leaders have to
send a message of peaceful assembly ,and I think they do for most part ,but any nut can take symbols the wrong way .
Even Homeowners destroying their property by putting cement
down the drain is a form of unlawful anger and rebellion . A lot of laws have been violated in reaction to this financial contraction and murder is the worse .
The Bankers/Wall Streeters/Politicians in their Ivory towers were playing with fire,as were the Corporations ,when they in essence betrayed the American people . Its a very serious issue
because your talking about peoples lives and people don’t like to starve .
There is the potential for violent protest, but that is not acceptable . I can’t say how bad things will get ,some people on this blog have been predicting pitchforks and things like that .
Do we really know how bad things might get in the future .
Law and order has broken down to some extent when the rule of law isn’t enforced or just enforced on certain segments . The immigration laws haven’t even been enforced for years now .
People have not taken Moral Hazard serious enough .
Any nut at any time can go crazy ,but the potential for group
rage is there .The potential for crime to increase is there ,we
talk about this all the time on this blog .When you think about all the BS talk going on our there in which different factions
keep trying to blame other factions for the state of affairs today
and you have the arguments over who is going to pay that might not be Justice ,its just a potential for uncontrolled group rage .
Thats why I always wanted real solutions ,not just kicking the can down the road and people suffering in the meantime unjustly ,the innocent .
Just my 2 cents and just a opinion .
” A Society that does not render Justice in a fair and Just manner is doomed to fail .” ( author unknown )
“If you’re going to imply someone is stupid, do it in a properly constructed sentence. Otherwise you resemble the implication.”
ZZZZIIIIIIINNNNGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!
for what it’s worth:
i posed the following question to my brother. he has 15+ year experience with the FBI. he’s been involved with 3 serial killer cases (2 of them confessed to him) and has experience with criminal profiling. i called him today,
me: “so..what do you think?”.
him: “about what?”
me: “about the attempted political assassination of a sitting u.s. congresswoman.”
him: “a political assassination?” “congressmen don’t really hold that much power do they?”
me: “i guess not…what do you think though.”
him: “i read something about it. anyone who would walk up in a crowded place and kill a bunch of people is pretty crazy. now if he was sitting in window with a high powered rifle and scope and made some effort to get away, then you would probably have something. but more likely than not…the guy is just a wackjob.”
me: “oh…”
him: “i don’t know much about it though”
DISCLAIMER: my brother is in no way involved in this investigation and my post does NOT mean to imply that he is in anyway.
One of the scariest statistics I remember from medical school is that 1% of the world population is clinically diagnosable as Schizophrenic. Multiply that by a US population of 350 million and that means we have 3.5 million among us who are potentially dangerous to themselves or others at all times. In my experience, many of these people prefer not to take their medication. Granted, at any given time many of them are in prison or institutionalized, but an incident like this is bound to happen now and then.
As a mental health professional recently commented on another blog, those suffering from severe mental health issues are far more likely to be the victims of violence than its perpetrators. And that excludes self-harm.
3.5 million “potentials” actually translates to a very few “actuals.” Just to keep it in proportion.
I think your brother is right.
The entire list of neocon cheerleaders use violent rhetoric EVERY DAY.
Along with thinly veiled racism and outright lies.
Period.
It was determined long ago that even though you have freedom of speech, you WILL be held responsible for shouting “fire” in a crowded theater if people are hurt. But as usual, the neocons think the rules are for everyone but themselves.
Ask the former daytime TV talk show host who got sued and damn near arrested after one of her “guests” killed another “guest,” how that works.
“Can someone please explain again how the ’second amendment solution’ isn’t a call to violence? Because I don’t think everybody is getting the message.”
I was wondering how long it would take for the Soros crowd to start blaming guns, didn’t even take 24 hours.
I blame the vitriol coming out of places like moveon.org and the daily kos for stoking the flames of this hippy nut job. I submit to you that the revolutionary left is much more likely to blow a gasket and perpetrate violence due to their irrational and emotional attachment to all things political.
As for the second amendment, I am a 13 year ccw holder in Arizona, I will take responsibility for my own safety. Will you?
I was wondering how long it would take for the Soros crowd to start blaming guns, didn’t even take 24 hours.
You’re missing the greater point. From what I see and read, being critical of nutjobs who spout ’second amendment solutions’ is not being critical of guns insomuch as being critical of nutjobs.
Remember, guns don’t kill. People kill.
The “Soros crowd?”
Seriously? Seriously?
wow
And a ccw?
Nope, no irony here folks.
It boggles my mind to read this small-minded, petty arguing; in an attempt to politicize an event that had very little to do with politics. This kid was clearly mentally disturbed….did any of you watch all of his youtube posts? Talk about fractured thoughts, none of which sounds remotely like that tea party platform. It doesn’t sound like liberal-progressive thought either.
To sit here and try to connect this to Palin’s cross hairs? Why aren’t you connecting it to Obama’s “bringing a gun to a knife fight” comments regarding political in-fighting? You people are all grasping at straws here.
Seriously, the liberal-conservative chasm is growing wider by the day in our society. This is a real problem.
Attend some Tea Party gatherings, ryan.
What you’ll find is a group of people from a variety of backgrounds (including political backgrounds) who are intent on small government and individual liberty.
Few people on this board are interested in either of those.
This includes several who repeatedly praise Ron Paul, but have conveniently ignored the fact that his son Rand now serves in Kentucky. This is because the Tea Party is largely responsible for his win. And they hate that. Why? Because they’re actually liberals.
This dude is 50 and looks 60 but “his terms could only be extended 30 years instead of 40 years.” and ” FHA reimbursed Wells Fargo for the $220,000 unpaid principal” It`s all cr@p!
Mortgage modifications daunting for homeowners
By MATT VOLZ The Associated Press
Posted: 11:22 a.m. Saturday, Jan. 8, 2011
HELENA, Mont. — Laverl “Nick” Nicholson used to look out of his kitchen window at the weeping willows that mark the burial place of two of his daughters. Then a debilitating car wreck left him unable to pay the $220,000 he owed on his northwestern Montana home.
He tried for a year and a half to lower his mortgage payments through a loan modification, but the government-insured loan that he took out three years ago came with restrictions. The best the bank could offer him was a reduction of $124 per month, leaving Nicholson with a $1,585 payment that he still couldn’t afford.
The bank foreclosed last April, forcing him to move next door into a mobile home on two of the original property’s 10 acres that he had given his daughter a few years before.
Today, the house near the small town of Thompson Falls is being sold in a sealed-bid process by the Department of Housing and Urban Development. The asking price: $87,000.
Foreclosure proceedings began and it became necessary for Nicholson to seek mortgage relief, but the FHA-loan modification terms were limited. Loan servicer Wells Fargo was only able to offer him a 5.375 percent interest rate, the going market rate, and unlike non-FHA loans, his terms could only be extended 30 years instead of 40 years.
The offer would have dropped Nicholson’s payments from $1,709 to $1,585.71. He asked for additional relief that would have lowered his payments to under $1,000 a month. He was denied.
The bank filed a claim with the FHA, which provides insurance on loans made by approved lenders. FHA reimbursed Wells Fargo for the $220,000 unpaid principal and approved expenses.
That left the federal government to unload the house for about a third of Nicholson’s unpaid principal.
“Who’s going to eat the difference between $220,000 and $87,000?” said Julie Hope, a counselor for NeighborWorks Montana, a nonprofit housing group helping Nicholson. “The lender’s out of it because they’ve turned in their claim on it and gotten their money.”
FHA says it’s costing the taxpayers nothing because the money used to pay the claims comes from the mortgage insurance payments by the homeowners who borrow under the program.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/08/AR2011010801809.html -
Another sob story. Gee, the guy “refinances” and takes out 268,000 for a failed business. Now he wants to keep the house, too, or get the government to reduce the payment to about a grand a month. The problem I see here, and is not clear in the very slanted story is that the foreclosure took WAY TOO LONG. IF the foreclosure had happened after 3 to 6 months of non-payment, then the liquidation could have happened much more quickly and the difference between what was owed and what it’s worth would be much less.
If he had been trying to “refinance” for a year and a half, I must assume he probably refused to make payments during that time period also, since the story says he could not afford the payments.
Cry me a river. I’ve made bad investments, too. I just didn’t borrow against my house to do them. IF I did, then it would be my loss.
The Washington Post wouldn’t fly down here to cry for me.
Must be a short news week.
The real thing that the MSM still never points out, is that doing a cash out refinance is the economic equivalent of selling your house and buying it back at the higher price. He sold his house - close to the top of the market, evidently. Then he bought it back at a much higher price. Except for blowing the profits, the guy did well with his real estate investment. Of course, if he hadn’t blown the money he might have been worth suing to get the cash back, but that is another story all together.
Exactly polly.
He blew the borrowed money and “The lender’s out of it because they’ve turned in their claim on it and gotten their money.” And now “FHA says it’s costing the taxpayers nothing because the money used to pay the claims comes from the mortgage insurance payments by the homeowners who borrow under the program.” That would be a lot of money in mortgage insurance. It all stinks. So who is going to pay for it when these new borrowers go under?
Not sure if anyone posted this about the retired Santee couple that recently died, they burned their house down in a murder/suicide. The husband was upset that he couldn’t get a loan modification. They had refinanced their 5-bedroom home for almost $600K. This is madness.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jan/03/santee-couple-whose-home-burned-down-were-financia/
I did not know to qualify for help under gov loan mod program, homeowner had to demonstrate they had the funds to dedicate 31% of their income to the home loan payment.
That’s got to be a real damper on resale - having the FB right next door to you in a trailer.
Comment on the PB Post from this article.
I applied for a modification in 10/09 following a denial for a refinance due to being UPSIDE DOWN. I had never been late on my mortgage, but met the criteria for the HAMP program due to loss of income. I was first turned down twice for bogus reasons; I was approved after going through NACA. MY payment was cut in HALF.
I am not ashamed of needing to be modified;it is tragic that the Banks have made it a hellish process and the public is so resentful and vile of those in need of a modification.
Modified
11:15 AM, 1/9/2011
“hellish process” likely the root cause of 60 year old SD man killing wife/himself simply because he was 100K underwater on a home loan. Both were recently employed teachers and still workforce viable. People need to place their mental health above everything and know when to walk away.
I doubt there are enough insurance payments out there to cover all the claims. Here’s the thing - When you get insurance, you are usually required to meet certain standards. For instance, when making a claim for mortgage insurance, shouldn’t you be required to demonstrate that proper underwriting standards were used?
scam scam scam scam scam scam scam scam scam scam scam
Does California really need over 500 agencies, boards and commissions?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_California_state_agencies
If California was its own country, it would be the 8th largest economy in the world. Would anyone blink about it, then?
But it’s not. It just thinks it is.
The irony is , that here was ,( Note the was, as she’ll maybe live , but her serving days are surely over as a politician) a congressperson that could work with about any segment of people for the good of the country , over the narrow minded special interests .
A loss for AZ and the USA
A tragedy, to be sure.
As a gun owner, although I have not fired one of them for as long as I can remember, other than his constitutional right to own one I question why a 22 year old needs a 9MM Glock handgun…
Exactly. I have a few blue barreled artillery pieces for knocking down 4 legged species.
When a grown man says he needs an arsenal of sidearms and packs iron and displays it in public “for protection”, I really have to wonder if he is really a man.
The police here do that all the time! I knew they were just girly-men (and menly-girls)! Some departments also dress up in these intimidating dark uniforms with their weapons hanging off their belts! Who are they trying to scare? What personal defect are they trying to compensate for?
Oh, and as far as violent rhetoric… “War on Poverty” anyone? Seems like “warfare” is the favorite term to use for all government propaganda meisters when they want to appoint a “czar” to protect us from the “enemy”.
Conflating a publicly compensated and sworn peace officer with right wing hate group thug isn’t going to work either.
Well, they’re both just as intimidating. Weapons on the hip and all. I thought that was your original point?
I have nothing to fear thus no reason to pack iron.
I envy your piece of mind. May I regale you with a personal anecdote about fear and intimidation? It happened just last week in the wee hours of New Years Day. My friend needed a ride to his home after returning to Albuquerque from holiday travels, so I was driving around the city at 0200, which I have not done in over a decade. I do not normally drive on this day nor on New Year’s Eve, not even to buy groceries because of the massive police presence that is deployed with the stated purpose of controlling drunk driving. This includes very well publicized saturation patrols, extensive roadblocks and checkpoints etc. Since I cannot “say my ABC’s” backwards even when stone sober, I avoid travel during this period because I *fear* being subjected to a field sobriety test at a roadblock… and failing. I *fear* police roadblocks in general. It gives me a creepy feeling… like the wrong guys won WWII. Anyway, the streets of Albuquerque were completely and utterly deserted! Apparently, the authorities have gotten their point across to the citizens. I drove downtown from the outskirts of the city and saw only a handful of vehicles, most of them police units. I saw no pedestrians at all. It was eerie, like some Hollywood post apocalyptic environment! This was New Year’s Eve/Day! Anyway, I delivered my friend to his residence without incident. When I checked the news later that morning I learned there had been a single fatality: a 19 year old pedestrian crossing the street had been run over and killed by a police vehicle, one of those roving saturation patrols. That kid must have been one of the only people on the street and he still managed to get run over by one of our duly sworn peace officers. True story. Anyway, I’ve never seen packs of armed hate group thugs around here so I don’t fear them, but there are plenty of other things to fear, at least in this part of the country.
According to the shooter’s own web postings, he admired the works of Karl Marx. Not Tea Party mentality. Of course for hard case liberals, anyone who doen’t fully agree with them must be a racist, gun-toting Bible -clinging redneck anarchist. Such is their DELUSION, as exiter is so fond of saying.
Gabby Gifford more closely resembled a Republican Representative than a Democrat in what she spoke about and voted for.
An article on The Seatle Examiner.com had this to say:
The mass political assassination attack in Tucson, AZ on Saturday January 8, 2011 that as of 2:44 pm pst had left six people dead and eighteen shot were shot during the attack has a marked MKULTRA profile, and of suppression of drug cartel investigation and of expansion the U.S. space program as one of its effects.
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was reported in grave condition and in surgery at University Medical Center in Tucson, after the shooting in a Safeway supermarket parking lot.
One news report states,
“The suspect in the shooting of Congresswoman Giffords and others, Jared Loughner, posted a You Tube video three weeks ago indicating that “in a few days, you know I’m conscience dreaming!” as well as a MySpace post saying goodbye to friends.
“According to MSNBC, “Police say the shooter was in custody, and was identified by people familiar with the investigation as Jared Loughner, 22. Pima County Sheriff’s officials said he used a pistol to carry out the shooting spree. U.S. officials who provided his name to the AP spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release it publicly.”
“In a You Tube video attributed to Jared Lee Loughner, which was posted approximately about three weeks ago, Loughner states, in part:
“This video is my introduction to you! My favorite activity is conscience dreaming: the greatest inspiration for my political business information. Some of you don’t dream – sadly.
“In conclusion, my ambition – is for informing literate dreamers about a new currency; in a few days, you know I’m conscience dreaming! Thank you!
“The MSNBC report also indicates that federal law enforcement officials were analyzing Loughner’s MySpace page after the shooting incident. According to MSNBC, “The MySpace page, which was removed within minutes of the gunman being identified by U.S. officials, included a mysterious ‘Goodbye friends’ message published hours before the shooting and exhorted his friends to ‘Please don’t be mad at me.”
The author speculates that Loughner was the product of goverment mind coexperiments.
All I know is that if anyone’s reason for this attempt was to further divide and polarize this country, so far, they have had some success.
I live in Mesa, the 3rd largest city in Arizona. Tucson is the second largest. I have never witnessed any Tea Party people suggesting violence here. You wouldn’t be aware there was ANY “Tea Party” membership in AZ lately if the national media didn’t mention it. Personally i’m an independent voter.
No, no, the shooter was a right winger but it just feels like it must be so. Like when right wingers shot JFK, and stuff.
“…informing literate dreamers about a new currency…”
Is he a gold bug?
“According to the shooter’s own web postings,”
Wrong. According to YOU. And I like how you twist Giffords party affiliation to suit your conspiracy theory.
It just doesn’t get any better than that. lmao.
Hey bear,
Is there some reason that you are broadcasting your ignorance regarding basic monetary knowledge?
You not a silver bug? Well then welcome to the “i just lost 74% of my wealth in 2010″ club.
Yeah, he listed the Communist Manifesto as a book he read. He also listed Mein Kampf, and an Ayn Rand work. You can’t single out one book mentioned and claim that this guy was a left winger. He appears to be a nutjob. Nice try.
It was only a matter of time until the left wing revolutionaries convinced some nut job to go on a killing spree. I think it may be time to tone down the rhetoric.
Starting at 14 (maybe even 13?) my dad let me wander, with other armed friends, in a farm valley with a 16 gauge semi-auto shotgun, firing both deer and buck shot within 100 yards of a residential neighborhood.
We never had any problems, because none of us were nuts.
Same here. I carried my Dad’s 12-gauge break-open shotgun down the streets of Town and Country here in Tampa. My high school buddy carried his 22 rifle. We’d go out into the wooded areas, not yet developed and spend a few hours shooting targets. I shot a couple of rattle-snakes. A sheriff’s deputy would drive by and didn’t care that we were carrying “firearms”.
We weren’t threatening anyone. It wasn’t a big deal.
It wasn’t until one of my friends joined the Navy a couple years later, and came back. He built pipe bombs and shaved the firing pins off our 22 rifles, with added clips. Then when we went to do some practice, we had an automatic weapon and could completely obliterate old abandoned cars. I used to just put holes through them with 00 buckshot. The pipe bombs did a whole new type of damage. Quite an awakening for a young man. He really enjoyed the big explosion. He was a nut. I haven’t seen him in over 30 years, but heard he had some type of cancer. I don’t know if he is even still living.
But then, he was a uniformed soldier and they’re helping to fight for freedom. right? Blowing stuff up is their job.
Since I cannot “say my ABC’s” backwards even when stone sober, I avoid travel during this period because I *fear* being subjected to a field sobriety test at a roadblock… and failing.
This is almost funny. When asked to do this,
tell them you couldn’t do it sober. A long term
friend in the Oregon State Police told me that
anyone who tries, usually has been drinking.
When you are asked to do this, tell them that
and laugh.
Well, yeah, it is funny… as long as you aren’t standing on the tarmac in the cold with a bunch of people in dark uniforms with guns shining a spotlight on your face. Kind of nightmarish actually. I don’t know about Oregon, but I’m pretty sure laughing and telling jokes at a DUI roadblock would have unpleasant consequences in Albuquerque. I don’t plan on testing the theory!
There’s a song to sing the alphabet backwards. It isn’t trivially easy since you keep doubting yourself and thinking you might have missed one, but it isn’t that hard.
I wonder how many cops can recite the alphabet backwards, or would even notice if you transposed a few letters as long as you did it quickly.
“but her serving days are surely over as a politician)”
Why? Brain injuries are strange. There can be a lot of visible damage and fairly little impairment. There can be almost no visible damange and lots of impairment. It is too early to tell whether she is going to be able to remain in Congress.
“but her serving days are surely over as a politician)”
“Why? Brain injuries are strange.”
I have seen quite a few brain dead politicians in my time.
This is a tragedy for the victims, no doubt, but lot of the talk has been way over the top imo. People somehow connecting this to the tea party. Some calling, for the umpteenth time, for the repeal of the second amendment. The decline of a civilized democracy, etc.
My take is this. Anybody calling for the repeal of the second amendment is at the very least misinformed. This country was founded on violence. Don’t think for one second that the base code in your brain stem has somehow “evolved” into one of universal love for mankind. I wish that was the case but it’s not. If you don’t believe me, walk down a busy street somewhere and punch a total stranger in the face. You will see this person go back 100,000 years right before your very eyes. People are being slaughtered around the globe on a daily basis. Bottom line, slaves don’t own guns, free men (& women) own guns. Look at every maniacal dictator (Stalin, Pol Pot, Amin, Hitler) throughout history, besides being nuts, what is one common denominator. Gun confiscation.It really is that simple.
As for civilized democracy. When the PTB continually ram laws down our throats, even when there is overwhelming support against said measure, how is that a representative democracy? There has been a disconnect between what we want, for the most part, and what the PTB want for quite some time imo.
The shooter is very likely a person with serious mental health issues (no sh*t sherlock). But to say his actions were suggested by others actions or suggestions is really not the point imo. First off all I don’t agree with that. More importantly is where do you draw the line away from personal accountability? Little Johhny or little Suzy played a video game when they were a child and that’s why he/she slaughtered all those people. I don’t know how many times I have heard of some serial killer blaming his upbringing for their demonic acts. Makes me sick. Even though these killers are reprehensible scum, I do have a sliver of respect for those that forgo any trial and plead guilty knowing full well they are getting an appointment with Ol’ Sparky. There have been a couple that I can recall.
Rant off.
‘where do you draw the line away from personal accountability’
‘One of the five U.S. soldiers accused of murdering Afghan civilians in a grisly case now unfolding in Washington state sent Facebook messages to his father early this year in which he claimed to be mortified that his fellow soldiers had purposely killed a civilian. “Well, it was two guys who did it actually killed the dude (sic) but the whole platoon knew about it,” Winfield wrote to his father. “Theres (sic) no one in this platoon that agrees this is wrong.”
http://mobile.salon.com/politics/war_room/2010/10/01/facebook_messages_afghanistan/index.html
‘I didn’t think of Iraqis as humans,’ says U.S. soldier who raped 14-year-old girl before killing her and her family’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340207/I-didnt-think-Iraqis-humans-says-U-S-soldier-raped-14-year-old-girl-killing-her-family.html#ixzz1AYd0LKuX
‘A peek inside any airport bookstore will tell you that Americans want to read about vampires this summer…As usual, the military is developing a similar obsession, but not vampires. With the Army, it’s zombies. Dog-eared copies of Max Brooks’ World War Z, a first person account of the Great Zombie War, and his definitive undead-fighting manual, The Zombie Survival Guide, are found wherever soldiers relax and oil their weapons.’
‘One soldier showed me a huge, razor-sharp Nepalese Ghurka knife that weighed about seven pounds — a lot of extra weight to carry on patrol. He explained that because killing zombies required a decapitating or skull-crushing blow, there was simply no better tool for fighting the undead in close quarters. As uniforms and body armor become more and more covered in Velcro, Zombie Hunter patches have become hot sellers for tactical suppliers. At the German Post Exchange at Kandahar Airfield, that patch is continually sold out.’
http://dispatches.globalpost.com/2010/08/20/hunting-zombies-in-afghanistan/
‘Before there were Tea Partiers, there was Sarah Palin. The summer before John McCain put the Alaska governor on the ticket, she had been “discovered” on a Weekly Standard sponsored summer cruise to Alaska. She hosted Standard editor Bill Kristol and others at a luncheon in the state capitol, where she impressed them as a raw political talent. Kristol’s subsequent touting elevated her onto McCain’s vice presidential short list. One AEI staffer described Palin as a “project,” adding “[s]he’s bright and she’s a blank page. She’s going places and it’s worth going there with her.”
‘For the neoconservatives, this alliance has paid off. Palin has become neoconservatism’s reliable vector into the Tea Party world. She reliably echoes neoconservative talking points about war with Iran. When addressing the Tea Party Convention in Nashville last February, she hit neocon talking points…Wearing an Israeli flag pin’
‘Even David Frum, the prominent neoconservative writer and Iraq war enthusiast who has expressed deep skepticism regarding Palin and the Tea Party, praised the foreign policy segments of her speech…Live blogging her talk, Frum tellingly observed that Tea Partiers sat on their hands during these segments: “Interesting — no applause for sanctions on Iran. No applause for Palin’s speculation that democracies keep the peace.”
http://original.antiwar.com/scott-mcconnell/2010/11/11/how-the-neocons-are-co-opting-the-tea-party/
‘People say that time heals, but the Abu Rahmah family feels as though it is living in a recurring nightmare from which there is no respite. Their nightmare is set in the West Bank village of Bil’in, which has been cut into pieces by Israel’s “separation” wall. All six Abu Rahmah siblings were non-violent activists - only four of them are left.’
‘Their tale begins in July 2008, when one of them, Ashraf, was detained by Israeli soldiers in the nearby village of Ni’lin. The soldiers tied him up, blindfolded him and, as their commander watched, shot him in the foot at close range with a rubber-coated steel bullet.’
‘I also recalled how on that fateful afternoon, Bassem had joined the other villagers and activists at the centre of Bil’in as they chanted slogans and began to walk towards the village’s annexed land. As always, Bassem was initially at the back of the crowd, trying to finish a conversation before the march began…As he walked past me, told me, as he always did, to be careful and warned my friend to look out for me during the protest. Bassem’s family were devastated by his death, so when I heard about the death of his sister, Jawaher, a few days ago. Jawaher died on New Year’s Eve as a result of inhaling teargas at the village’s weekly protest.’
‘There has been some speculation over the type of teargas used on that day, with other activists emphasising the large quantity and unusually strong effect it had on them.’
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/01/20111513358119488.html
‘The fall of the Soviet Union initiated a new passage of American identity. Then the 9/11 War took us a long way down the road to journey’s end. This passage is also a migration. America has not simply abandoned one collective identity for another; we have become a different people, a different idea.’
‘Our sacrosanct national narrative of ‘redeemer nation’ has been rewritten into a perverse story of a chosen people beleaguered and a civilization beset by barbarism…While official banners still trumpet American altruism, our own spoken words, daily spun into the network ether of contemporary human consciousness, betray our true intent.’
‘Our actions even speak so much louder. Daily our implacable national energies destroy yet more little bits of human society, no longer in the name of their salvation, but rather for our sake to defend the homeland.’
http://www.kosmosjournal.org/kjo2/library/kosmos-articles/dark-lord.shtml
Your point being…
The troops are onto the zombie thing? I’ll be dipped! Must be the zeitgeist. They have special zombie targets at our local range and I do hear a lot of people saying (presumably in jest) that they bought such and such a weapon for the Zombie Apocalypse, and so on. Didn’t know the meme had spread to our combat troops, but it makes sense I guess. “World War Z” is an excellent piece of work by the way, for you fiction lovers out there. Full of wry and very dark social commentary embedded in a nasty horror novel written in the manner of Studs Terkel’s work like The Good War.
They have special zombie targets at our local range and I do hear a lot of people saying (presumably in jest) that they bought such and such a weapon for the Zombie Apocalypse, and so on
I think that’s because most people are judged as crazy if they think there’s a chance our society could face unrest in the future that would necessitate being able to defend oneself against the masses. You know, kind of like the folks that congregate here were considered crazy (still are?) for thinking that housing prices might fall.
When people learn I have a 12 gauge shotgun under my bed, they usually ask “why”. If I answer honestly - that I’d rather have the means to defend my life and loved ones should I need it, then to end up in a place where I need it and don’t have it - they tend to shake their head dismissively and think I’m being negative. However, if I mention preparing for the zombie apocalypse, they chuckle.
For some reason, the absurd answer is acceptable. The reasonable one is not. Go figure.
Also, many people think a shotgun is overkill and judge for that. Nevermind the fact it’s an ideal home defense gun as there’s less risk of over-penetration and thus reduced risk of collateral damage, whereas with a handgun, if you miss, any bullet with stopping power will likely make a visit to the neighbors (and perhaps the neighbors’ neighbors).
That indoor range I mentioned eventually had to put scatterguns on their no-no list. Too destructive to the range fixtures.
No matter. I don’t like to practice constantly with the 12 anyway… too destructive to my poor shoulder!
When people learn I have a 12 gauge shotgun under my bed, they usually ask “why”. If I answer honestly - that I’d rather have the means to defend my life and loved ones should I need it, then to end up in a place where I need it and don’t have it - they tend to shake their head dismissively and think I’m being negative.
Tell them it’s no different from having a fire extinguisher. You never expect to (and probably never will) use a fire extinguisher, either, but it’s good to have them around “just in case”. It usually opens up a person’s mind just a little bit when they see it in this light.
Tell them it’s no different from having a fire extinguisher.
I’ve used similar analogies, but that’s a good one. I’ll use it in the future.
MV,
I also compare it to buckling one’s seatbelt when you go driving. The chances of getting into a wreck on any particular day are vanishingly small, so why buckle up? Doesn’t that make you “paranoid”?
I always buckle my seatbelt. I keep tools, jumper cables, and a shovel in my truck. I always carry emergency supplies when I go out in the wilderness. I have a fire extinguisher in my kitchen and in my garage. And I have various firearms available in case something happens.
Oh waiter, I`ll have what SV guy ordered.
“Why? Brain injuries are strange. There can be a lot of visible damage and fairly little impairment. There can be almost no visible damange and lots of impairment. It is too early to tell whether she is going to be able to remain in Congress.”
I am very familiar with brain injuries as when I was 17, my younger sister at the age of 16 was a front seat passenger in a vehicle involved in a head-on collision. She was wearing a lap belt, and her head hit the A-pillar, crushing her skull at the right frontal lobe, and mangling her face. The paramedics found her with her brain exposed to the air, some of it laying on the asphalt as she was slumped out of the vehicle. The doctors, with much effort, removed almost her entire right frontal lobe in an attempt to save her life.
After months and months of ups and downs, comatose in the ICU, she awoke. Slowly. Over time, as she learned to talk again, it became clear that there was almost nothing about her that was the same. Most of her memory was gone, she had lost all emotion, had horrific behavioral problems as well as numerous physical problems, and was basically a young child again, but lacking severely in many areas. I’m not sure saving her life was the right thing, to be honest, as the quality was severely compromised. I know she would have never wanted that sort of life for herself. She went on to die in another tragic accident. Her life was quite sad.
Oh my goodness, Grizzly! I am so sorry to hear about your sister’s very sad life. I hope you and she got to have at least a little joy together after her initial accident.
Not a listing of the day, but a decent house in a decent neighborhood (if I can say that without being branded a racist) that has appeared to return to mid 90`s pricing without short sale or foreclosure. I have seen a couple of these recently.
3912 Lighthouse Dr Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410
$120,000 Price Reduced
3 Bed 2 Bath 1,942 Sq Ft
Pool features: Pool is 24 x 11, Inground, Screened
•Status: Contingency
Days on site 208 days
———————————————————————–
Property Appraiser
Jul-1993 07825/0225 $115,000 WARRANTY DEED
3912 LIGHTHOUSE DR
PALM BEACH GARDENS FL 33410 5630
Great news!
After another 30% nominal drop in prices, it might make sense for young families to once again think about buying in San Diego.
Rent vs. own ratio to flip in 2011?
Posted by Nin-Hai Tseng, writer-reporter
January 4, 2011 1:41 pm
Many Americans are content to rent after witnessing the crumbling housing market in recent years. But with rents on the rise and home prices continuing to fall, a reversal is in sight.
It wasn’t hard for many homeowners to bid adieu to 2010. It was the year where, in many metropolitan areas across the country, rents surged as home prices fell, leading a growing chorus of skeptics to question the so-called American Dream of homeownership.
Perhaps not surprisingly, it makes more financial sense to rent than buy today in many U.S. cities, according to the latest data from Moody’s Analytics. After declining during the depths of the latest recession, prices for rentals nationwide increased modestly by about 3% in 2010, partly driven by a record number of homeowners looking for new digs after foreclosing on their homes. In Moody’s latest list of rent ratios (which is the price of a typical home divided by the annual cost of renting that home) for 54 U.S. metropolitan areas, 39 fell into the ‘better to rent’ category — roughly the same level it’s been for the past year.
But that may finally be about to change. … This would be a positive development, as a healthy housing market typically puts renting and owning at more equal footing.
…
A few factors will be at play. For one, home prices are expected to fall further, with some economists expecting a 15% to 30% drop this year. This might be bad news for household finances and current homeowners fearing that their most prized asset stands to lose more in value. On the flip side, this makes homes more affordable and might finally spur more home sales, especially at a time when the rate of home construction has been the lowest since before the Second World War.
…
Hi PB,
For me (renter), I don’t so much look at cost of house. Cost of home is fixed value - easy to run numbers against. My concern is the property taxes wild card/ white elephant in the room. States/County assessor does not need an increase in home values to raise property taxes. I recall reading several cases where home values have declined but the home’s property tax increased this past year.
Say i am 55, looking to buy a home to retire/croak in. I will die at 90, or 35 years from now.
I buy 400K home. Current annual prop taxes are $3800. 35 years X $3,800 is 133000 without any prop tax increase figured in. What would be total prop tax cost if we assume ave 8% prop tax increase each year? Add that total prop tax cost after 35 years to initial 400K investment, plus new roof at year 20, new furnace, landscaping and it will always be cheaper to rent regardless of how low the initial cost of home goes if you assume declining to stable home equity gains for next 25 - 30 years as most here do.
In California, we have a 2% cap on property tax increases per year. All thanks to Prop 13.
This is a must in any state, IMHO. Having volatile property tax increases is just as bad as having “exploding” adjustable-rate mortages.
Between rising rents, millions of homes held off the market due to bank foot dragging, and a record dearth of construction, I forecast a housing supply squeeze, accompanied by rising homelessness.
U.S. apartment vacancies dip as rents rise
By Lily Leung, UNION-TRIBUNE
Friday, January 7, 2011 at 12:19 p.m.
More Americans are renting, a sign of continuing economic distress that’s also seen in San Diego County.
Nationwide, the rate of apartment vacancies dipped to 6.6 percent in the fourth quarter from 8 percent during the same time one year ago, marking a two-year low, said Bloomberg News this week. The data is from Reis Inc., a property-research company.
Numbers from the San Diego County Apartment Association show the same downward trend in the region. The vacancy rate fell to 4.6 percent in the fall from 5.0 percent the previous year. The association surveys 25 major apartment owners and managers twice a year, in the fall and spring.
As more rentals filled up, rents rose across the U.S. and San Diego County. In the U.S., the average monthly rent rose to $986 from $964 year-over-year, a 2.2 percent increase. In the county, rent increase ranged 1 percent to 4.4 percent in the fall.
Some local experts believe demand and prices for rentals will likely continue through 2011 and even beyond because of an already limited housing supply, the lack of new building and an upcoming wave of foreclosures. (We heard a similar forecast from local economists last month. Read that here.)
…
This definitely has me worried. Rent is certainly going up, and I know of a few houses that have been foreclosed on, but nothing is happening to them (people have moved out, apparently, but homes are not being put up for sale).
When will this ever end????
I realize the Fed assures us inflation is contained, but doesn’t the BLS treat rents as the price of housing, and isn’t housing something like 30%+ of consumption spending these days? Just sayin’…
Apartment Vacancies in U.S. Decline to Two-Year Low, Extending a Recovery
By Hui-yong Yu - Jan 5, 2011 9:01 PM PT
U.S. apartment vacancies fell to a two-year low in the fourth quarter and rents rose, extending a market recovery that began in early 2010, property research firm Reis Inc. said.
The national apartment vacancy rate dropped to 6.6 percent from 8 percent a year earlier and from 7.1 percent in the third quarter, the New York-based company said in a report today. It was the lowest since 2008’s third quarter, when the rate was 6.2 percent, according to Reis.
Apartment occupancies have risen as a surge in home foreclosures forced many people to lease apartments. While the 951,000 jobs added to U.S. payrolls from January to November is a fraction of the 8.4 million lost during the recession, “it is far better than the situation in early to mid-2009, when the nation was terminating hundreds of thousands of jobs per month,” Reis said.
Effective rents, or what tenants actually pay, rose to an average $986 a month from $964 a year earlier and $981 in the prior quarter, Reis said. Landlords’ asking rents also climbed, to $1,042 from $1,026 a year earlier and $1,037 in the third quarter, according to the report.
“Despite tepid economic growth and an anemic recovery in the labor market, households appear to be returning in droves to the rental market,” Ryan Severino, a Reis economist, said in the report. “The fact that effective rent increases kept pace with asking rents implies that concession packages are likely no longer increasing.”
…
“Clearly, the guy was disturbed and had been for a long time.”
A long time? Wasn’t he 22 yrs old or something?
Just another frustrated or disturbed 22 year old white male with a semi-auto gun, who was subjected to MSM inflammatory TV and radio political commentaries, photos and propaganda most of his young life who just happened to have a grudge of some sort.
The hateful nature and the dangerous political “entertainment” atmosphere of this Nation’s politics has primed a whole herd of these tripwire kids and adults.
I’m just suprised that this sort of thing hasn’t happened sooner to a political figure or an opposition notable with all the hate and rhetoric generated and even tolerated out there.
Ooops!!!
(Oh Ben…KINDLY scrub or delete all of my old light-hearted and fiery comments about the need for blindfolds, posts and firing squads around Wall St and DC before I get into some sort of trouble)
Yeah, his embrace of Communist Manifesto proves his right wing nutsiness.
Most nuts are angry about something.
Hinkley shot a President to impress Jodi Foster, thus proving Jodi Foster to be an evil cause. Right. I get it.
The fact that he “read” any book proves he’s nuts.
In case you haven’t heard, kids don’t read books anymore. At least the kids out here in Flyover, Red State, USA.
By the time I was 21, I had read Mein Kampf, and the Turner Diaries (my father’s hidden copy).
I’d also read The Grapes of Wrath, Joseph Heller and Richard Wright.
Good thing I didn’t go bat-$hit crazy and open up with my AR-15, because the Liberals and the Tea Partier types wouldn’t know whether to $hit or go blind.
Books are weapons, loaded with dangerous ideas. That’s why they burn books… to protect the children.
It’s sad, actually. When I went to high school, we had classes like “Modern Novel” (where I read Steinbeck, Richard Wright, Joseph Heller, etc), and another class (that I can’t recall the name of) where we read Heinlein, Kafka, Asimov, Robert Bloch, Bradberry, etc. A novel/book a week, test/discussion on Friday. The Science Fiction “Final” was writing a sci-fi short story.
They don’t do that anymore……all they do is teach to the NCLB test. You can go completely thru high school now, without being required to READ a single book.
Even if a real book is assigned, say something by Mark Twain, some of the new editions coming out have had the “objectionable content” such as politically incorrect language edited out. To me, that is much, much worse than just banning a book. Down the memory hole, eh? It wasn’t the conservatives that butchered Twain for containing the “N word”. The desire to control the access to ideas as well as weapons isn’t limited to one political party. Are you listening, exeter?
“…who was subjected to MSM inflammatory TV and radio political commentaries, photos and propaganda most of his young life…”
Most remarkably, there are some Palinites posting here who don’t seem to get this connection!
I don’t know that anyone of HBB is a “Palinite”, however any random being happens to define such a thing.
But many get the MSM/MSN connection to hatred of people who favor less gov’t.
Interesting. No?
Joseph Goebbels was once a Communist, but he dropped that to join up with Hitler’s Nazi party. For people like that, ideology takes second place to POWER over other people. Goebbels went with the winner.
This kid who did the shooting probably didn’t care so much about ideology but rather wanted to make a direct expression of power by force of arms.
If the guy did attend Tea Party Events watch Fox and Rush and Beck
then not blaming them for this shooting is like
not blaming Osama bin Ladin for 9/11 etc.
Yes this was an unstable individual, ie his anger and mind were easily steared to shooting these people with images and terms that saturate Fox, rush, and Beck. These people foam at the mouth, use terms like facist communist Nazi takeover to describe a public health care option (ignoring that medicare and the va are already socialized medicine) You have Palin with targets and talking about reloading to take out political enemies, and this congressmans Tea Pary opponent actually asking his followers to come and shoot an M-16.
Get in their face!
If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun!
Which is not a call to violence, but a refusal to be bullied by violence.
By violence, nonetheless.
But somehow “targeting” a congressional seat for a pick is a call for violence, right?
Reagan as a sitting president got shot. I was too young back then to remember if the republicans blamed on Tip O’Neal or Jimmy Carter?
A couple of tweeter comments:
Comment 1:
One former high school friend Tweeted about knowing the accused gunman:
“He was a pot head and into rock, like Hendrix, The Doors, Anti-Flag,” she wrote. “I haven’t seen him in person since 2007 in a sign language class. As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal and oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy. He had a lot of friends until he got alcohol poisoning in 2006 and dropped out of school. Mainly a loner, very philosophical.”
Comment 2 posted regarding the You Tube video:
“He is a member of racist conservative groups who believes that whites should take back America. Read this murderer’s history before you make excuses for him.
Many of us smoke pot…to feel better,relax,be able to eat;if you’re on chemo,for instance.God created it for a purpose.He knew we’d need it.And,I,for one,will be relieved when we get rid of that ignorant,missleading,antiquated,old law that makes it illegal.”
If you,personally,don’t care for it,then fine.Leave it alone.But get out of the way of the people who are in favor of it.Don’t worry..it doesn’t cause murders,erratic driving…etc..that’s just b.s. propaganda!
God created it for a purpose
I don’t think anyone has tried this argument to get the folks wearing red jerseys to vote for legalization. Sounds like it could have legs
I always thought JC was sittin’ around the last supper table passin’ few J’s…some of that wacky weed was used in the writin’ of the scriptures.
I don’t know about that. God created pork, shrimp, and lobster, but according to the Bible we aren’t supposed to partake in those wonderful foods either.
God created pork, shrimp, and lobster, but according to the Bible we aren’t supposed to partake in those wonderful foods either
And this seems to disprove the notion that god is benevolent. Those are some tasty foods!!!
mmmm, bacon…..
What if the kid liked Jodi Foster?
What if the kid liked Jodi Foster?
As much as you seem to?
please provide evidence that I like Jodi Foster
Obsessed, for sure.
Rio obsessed?
Verily
Interesting article from the NYTimes entitled “Is Law School a Losing Game?”
from the article:
Mr. Wallerstein, who can’t afford to pay down interest and thus watches the outstanding loan balance grow, is in roughly the same financial hell as people who bought more home than they could afford during the real estate boom. But creditors can’t foreclose on him because he didn’t spend the money on a house.
He spent it on a law degree. And from every angle, this now looks like a catastrophic investment.
Link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html
From further on in the article (which, so far, is mostly about the schools gaming their US News and World Report rankings):
WHEN Mr. Wallerstein started at Thomas Jefferson, he was in no mood for austerity. He borrowed so much that before the start of his first semester he nearly put a down payment on a $350,000 two-bedroom, two-bath condo, figuring that the investment would earn a profit by the time he graduated. He was ready to ink the deal until a rep at the mortgage giant Countrywide asked if his employer at the time — a trade magazine publisher in New Jersey — would write a letter falsely stating that he was moving to San Diego for work.
“We were on a three-way call with my real estate agent and I said I didn’t feel comfortable with that,” he says. “The Countrywide guy chuckled and said, ‘Everyone lies on their mortgage application.’ ”
And another gem:
“This idea of exceptionalism — I don’t know if it’s a thing with millennials, or what,” she says, referring to the generation now in its 20s. “Even if you tell them the bottom has fallen out of the legal market, they’re all convinced that none of the bad stuff will happen to them. It’s a serious, life-altering decision, going to law school, and you’re dealing with a lot of naïve students who have never had jobs, never paid real bills.”
This has always struck me as being one of the scariest things about going to law school. Once a student decides to enroll they are in for a bundle. Most law degree programs are 3 years on a full time basis and only has value upon completion.
If they decide after the first semester that law school and the legal profession are not right for them then they’ve already dropped a fortune.
This has always struck me as being one of the scariest things about going to law school. Once a student decides to enroll they are in for a bundle. Most law degree programs are 3 years on a full time basis and only has value upon completion.
Yep - that’s why I decided against going to law school after being an engineer for years. Even though I’d likely be happier in the end, when you take the cost of law school, the lost wages for those 3 years, and the reality of the income I’d make *not* working for a big time firm in NYC, it just doesn’t pencil out in any way, shape, or form. I can take that ~$500k and buy happiness with it, rather than spend it changing careers.
But the difference here is that I actually through through all these realities. It sounds like Mr. Wallerstein didn’t.
When the USSR collapsed in 1991, my career as a defense engineer was put in doubt. So I cashed in my IRA money and put myself through law school 1993-1996. Passed the CA bar and the USPTO registration exam. Got a gig in a law firm as a patent attorney paying high 5 figures. Did a lateral to get a little over $100K. Used this to get an in-house counsel job at a major tech firm for $150K.
This worked for me during that time frame. Back when I started, patent attorneys were in such demand that they could depend upon landing a job at graduation. Such is not the case anymore. Too many out-of-work engineers did the same thing I did. Plus corporations that wanted huge patent portfolios and didn’t particularly demand quality found they could outsource the drafting of applications and office actions to English speaking patent engineers in India for pennies. All the US counsel needed to do was to review the drafts, make a few corrections, and then file them with the USPTO under his own name and registration number.
Just like the housing bubble, it’s all a matter of timing. Going to law school has been declining as a desirable career path for decades now. It didn’t just fall off a cliff in the last year or so.
So I cashed in my IRA money and put myself through law school 1993-1996.
Yeah, I originally had typed that I had thought about doing a “DennisN” but figured I shouldn’t pull you into this in any way
Honestly, I admire your choice to re-invent yourself at such a late stage of your professional career. I wish I could convince myself to do the same.
Well it was easier for me than it would have been for others. I owned a house in San Jose with about 50% equity and manageable payments. I had no wife or kids. I had about 2 decades worth of IRA money saved up - and when you have no other income, that 10% penalty upon cashing it in is the only tax liability. I took out a HELOC just in case, although I never tapped it. I graduated with no student loan debt and a job in hand.
Going back to school at age 40 was fun. I felt sorry for my classmates, who considered law school as endless toil. Coming from 17 years of endless toil as a Silicon Valley engineer, it was more like a vacation to me. I consider my 3 years in law school as a sabbatical from work.
I never saw the movie “The Paper Chase” until after I had graduated from law school. I laughed all the way through it. The professor in the film was a cream puff compared with some I had studied under!
Great story, DennisN, and it sounds like you’ve done very well for yourself!
It’s good to hear a success story about someone who changed careers at ~40. Not easy to do, but definitely a good decision for you.
Thanks for sharing your story.
Even worse - the JD only has value upon passing the bar exam.
When I went to law school, there were quite a few “academic success program” (ASP) students enrolled. This was the euphamism for students of color whose GPA and LSAT were nowhere good enough for regular admissions. These poor suckers langished at the bottom of their class even with lots of free tutuoring and hand-holding during exams. They would graduate with a boat load of debt.
Then came the CA bar exam. The hand-holding wasn’t there any longer - they were on their own. NONE of the two dozen ASP passed the CA bar. Consequently, none got legal jobs.
My law school refused to comment on this. The CA bar doesn’t make public the list of those who flunked: only the list of those who passed. But by taking the list of my graduating class (passed out at graduation) and crossing off the names of those on the passing list, I uncovered the sordid truth about the ASP students.
“If they decide after the first semester that law school and the legal profession are not right for them then they’ve already dropped a fortune.”
Here in CA I’ve known a lot of people who attended private law schools (very low cost) at night school. After the first year they took the mini-bar and if they failed that ended their law school training. I don’t know if things have changed but in the 70’s I knew a woman who did the typing, etc for her husbands law practice. She took the bar and passed and never attended law school.
The ABA and state bars are clamping down on the “alternative” paths to getting a law license. Years ago you only needed an LLB (2 years) to take the bar - now it’s the JD (3 years).
CA is unique in that they have some schools that can’t get ABA accredidation but get “CA only” accredidation from the CA bar. These IIUC aren’t exactly even “low cost” nowadays. Plus they are not recognized by ANY other state bar so you are locked into CA practice - e.g. in a high cost of living state.
Note that the US News rankings only rate ABA acredited schools. The wag in me says that these CA acredited schools are in the “fifth quartile” on that US News listing.
Fifth quartile = +20% or is it +25% -
The “Law School is a bad investment” stories are a conspiracy by the banksters.
Fewer lawyers = fewer fraud investigators and prosecuters = fewer banksters in the hoosegow = fewer class action/civil lawsuits.
Prove it isn’t true.
And the last bit:
Unless, somehow, the debt just goes away. Another of Mr. Wallerstein’s techniques for remaining cool in a serious financial pickle: believe that the pickle might somehow disappear.
“Bank bailouts, company bailouts — I don’t know, we’re the generation of bailouts,” he says in a hallway during a break from his Peak Discovery job. “And like, this debt of mine is just sort of, it’s a little illusory. I feel like at some point, I’ll negotiate it away, or they won’t collect it.”
He gives a slight shrug and a smile as he heads back to work. “It could be worse,” he says. “It’s not like they can put me jail.”
I think he is correct. Few years from now we will bail these guys out. And this is why we will never have a austerity in this country. 2 wrongs don’t make it right but if you had already bailed out the rich people, there’s no way you could mess with the few hundreds dollars Grandma gets every month.
I have a better idea. Let’s call the “bailouts” a big mistake, and start looking at insider trading and government support of Banksters as fraud and criminal. Let’s demand we get all the money back, and FORECLOSE on the Banksters. Put Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein out on the street and confiscate all their property. Then we won’t need to bailout Grandma, too.
Let’s stop the ponzi-finance of the Big Banks and break them up under ANTI-Trust legislation. If they are “too big to fail” they are too big.
Instead our “leaders” have done just the opposite. They have crushed the small banks and surrendered their assets the Big 5.
Let’s cut them up and put their managers who mismanaged them out of a job.
That’s what needs to be done.
As for this crook, he should be put in jail for a couple of years and ordered to pay back every single dime….
That’s what I find the most frustrating about this. The statute of limitations hasn’t run out on this stuff. But from all appearances, nobody from the bankster community is ever going to pay a fine, much less actually go to jail.
Rip off the food stamp program for a few hundred bucks, go to jail. Rip off anyone and everyone for hundreds of billions, retire in style on Grand Cayman.
+1
He gives a slight shrug and a smile as he heads back to work. “It could be worse,” he says. “It’s not like they can put me jail.”
Another crook with a Law Degree. And, au contraire, FRAUD is a criminal offense, and LYING on a mortgage applications is FRAUD.
I doubt he will be prosecuted because too many people have been smoking pot and fill up our jail cells. This cum bag has done much more harm to us than any pot smoker and is running around free.
It galls me.
Where did you read that he committed fraud on a mortgage application? It said quite specifically in the part I clipped above that he said he wasn’t comfortable lying on the mortgage application. It was the Countrywide employee who said it was standard practice. If you read the article, you will find that he didn’t buy the townhouse.
If you read the article, you fill find that…..
Fine. Thanks….that’s just great…..
So now we have to actually read the articles before we venomously lash out?
skimmed the article briefly…..Instead, Mr. Wallerstein rented a spacious apartment. He also spent a month studying in the South of France and a month in Prague — all on borrowed money. There were cost-of-living loans, and tuition of about $33,000 a year. Later came a $15,000 loan to cover months of studying for the bar.
Today, his best guess is that he should be sending $2,000 to $3,000 a month in total, to lenders that include Wells Fargo, Citibank and Sallie Mae.
I was thinking these loans were based on RE refi’s….That after getting the money to put up on a new house, he spent the money instead. My error. He is just a serial borrower, with no intention of repaying the debts. Since the loans are unsecured, he will probably get away with it. The Banks will pass his debts onto us, via the FED.
“Avoid this overpriced sewer pit as if your life depended on it,” writes the anonymous author of the blog Third Tier Reality — a reference to the second-to-bottom tier of the U.S. News rankings — in a typically scatological review. “Unless, of course, you think that you will be better off with $110k-$190k in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for a degree that qualifies you to wait tables at the Battery Park Bar and Lounge.”
I don’t think non-dischargable means very much. I’ve seen student loan debtors go decades without repaying their loans.
It follows them around on their credit reports, i guess, but doesn’t really seem to get “collected”.
Had it been a “secured” loan, which RE is, the holder of lien could claim his property to repay the debt. We’ve seen a lot of that lately. I doubt his college education gets paid.
I paid all my student loans within 3 years of graduation. I didn’t borrow much, and I considered my promise to pay an obligation that I should work off as soon as possible. I was told I was foolish because they were “low interest” loans……
I was told I was foolish because they were “low interest” loans……
Heheh. I remember that. The interest rate was so good, if you were smart you would borrow to the hilt and invest it in the stock market!
“It was the Countrywide employee who said it was standard practice.”
What? I thought it was the FBs who forced the lenders to accept liar applications?
Well, just thank god is was a little known and non-influential company like Countrywide.
Oh wait…
“Toning Down The Rhetoric” Means Obeying Big Government
Despite the fact that Jared Lee Loughner was a psychotic loner with “left-wing” beliefs according to those who knew him, the establishment has hastily exploited yesterday’s tragic shooting in Tucson to demonize conservatives, libertarians and gun owners while ordering Americans to “tone down the rhetoric,” which is nothing more than a euphemism for stifling dissent and coercing people to roll over on Obamacare, bailouts and whatever big government is preparing to unleash next.
On this, I agree. It is all about giving undue blame to non-leftist groups in an attempt to quell dissent, even though there is no evidence the shooter is right wing. The evidence is only in the fantasies and wishes of the loony left. They run the media, so they are making lies to their hearts’ content.
I refuse to stop being vigilant toward big government. In fact the media reaction only emboldens me.
There are two groups: the government and everyone else.
The government despises and requires the people(cattle) in order to live and prosper as non-productive parasites.
Note that Ayn Rand is being associated with the shooter.
I love Rand’s work more than ever and the government’s current reaction goes a long way in supporting her work.
In fact the media reaction only emboldens me.
We can see that. Your writings today and yesterday do appear a bit over-”emboldenedly” slightly out of sorts. A bit off. Partially in light of your past post’s “disdain” of the Tea-Party’s and far right’s threat to personal liberty. I would say either you believe in something or you don’t.
It is odd that now that some heat is rightfully being thrown their way for their irresponsible use of violent symbolism that you’ve come such a flailing, strident defense of the anti-libertarian far right. Something doesn’t reconcile.
You’ve begun to lack even more coherence. It appears now that you would support the anti-liberty Tea-Party and the loony right because they might tear down the government which you see as anti-liberty as well which makes me wonder if your views have any real anchors other than your overriding fear of the “left”.
some heat is rightfully being thrown their way for their irresponsible use of violent symbolism
Are you willing to level this same criticism towards the democrat orgs that said they were targetting the republicans that voted against the stimulus bill?
If not, what’s the defining factor(s) that makes one irresponsible and the other not?
Are you willing to level this same criticism towards the democrat orgs that said they were targetting the republicans that voted against the stimulus bill?
If not, what’s the defining factor(s) that makes one irresponsible and the other not?
The commons sense of this:
There is only one faction that uses that type of inflammatory symbolism in combination with their being identified with firearms, the second amendment, violent rhetoric, violent wars, being told by Palin to “don’t retreat but to RELOAD”, putting bull’s eyes on political “targets” and bringing guns to “political” gatherings.
Now you can’t tell me this makes no difference in degree.
There is only one faction that uses that type of inflammatory symbolism in combination with their being identified with firearms
What difference does it make what they’re *identified* with?
Are you really saying that one who openly supports the 2nd amendment can’t use the term “target”, yet someone opposed to the 2nd amendment can?
What difference does it make what they’re *identified* with?
You really are this clueless?
You really are this clueless?
and we’re back to a personal attack rather than rational discourse. Well done.
and we’re back to a personal attack rather than rational discourse. Well done.
Not attacking, just condensing your debate form and apparent thinking on this issue into a single word.
You do appear clueless to any rational argument that goes against your narrow viewpoint. See my “mushroom” analogy above.
That you cannot grasp how thinking Americans can find the Tea-party’s violent symbolism abhorrent, sick and inflammatory is evidence to your cluelessness on how many rational people perceive the obvious.
Liking Jodi Foster encourages attempted murder of leaders.
OK. We get it.
No I don’t join groups, especially the tea Party. I certainly do not like Sara Palin or Glenn Beck, and I started disliking the Tea Party when those two crammed “Christian nation” into it’s purpose. I am just saying there is no evidence at all so far from the shooter’s YouTube or myspace sites that support the right wing, the tea party, Sara plain, or Glenn Beck. The only delusional people are you, excreter, and the socialist gun-grabbing establishment.
I am just saying there is no evidence at all so far from the shooter’s YouTube or myspace sites that support the right wing,
That’s not all you are “just saying” in your past 2 days of incoherent rambling.
gun-grabbing establishment
Show me anywhere where I have said anything against gun ownership or do certain delusions lead you to believe I ever did?
Bile, your ramblings are incoherent beyond measure. You’re flailing and you need a new playbook. “Gungrabbing socialists”? LMAO.
Why is it you’re so afraid that a grown man needs to tote a gun in public? Whatchya fraid’ of Bile?
Notice 5 “unimportant” people and one “important” federal judge were gunned down? What is wrong with 6 people who’s families loved them?
I see this all the time a cop, firefighter, teacher, politician etc are victims - really big deal. Regular person - not so much!
This is how the press has been used to raise hero status to the government types while further degrading our status as citizens.
Right on, GH. People are killed in random and not-so-random violent incidents all the time, every day, 24/7. Including incidents of multiple murder.
I also found this aspect of the reporting particularly vile. The elites of this country don’t even consider us individual sheep… more like krill.
Yeah, I noticed that too. And the fact that he shot like 11 other ppl besides Gifford just goes to show that this was not a politically motivated crime. He is a schizophrenic. Like many schizophrenics, he was overtaken by delusions of grandeur. Without the mental capacity to make sense of the world’s cognitive inputs, he became convinced that it was his job to right the perceived (and popularly discussed) wrongs of the world.
Five or six people have been murdered by an untreated victim of sever mental illness, and all we want to go on about is left vs right.
Pundits are going all-out to ascribe political motives to this guy, or suggest he was actuated by some of the over-the-top political rhetoric, but what seems clear is that he was not in his right mind.
One aspect almost nobody has commented on was how it took 30 minutes for an ambulance to arrive at the scene. From what I understand, Tuson has a “public private partnership” providing ambulance service, which is another way of saying corporations make bank by selling overpriced and underperforming services and infrastruction (such as toll roads) to municipalities. Private prisons operate along the same lines. As usual, greed and excess profits trump all else.
I refuse to stop being vigilant toward big government.
Bill, I’m with you, and I do wish your vigilance would include voting.
I refuse to stop being vigilant toward big corporatism.
Then we can assume you don’t own any stocks. S & P 500 gain over the last 34 years was an annualized 10%. enjoy your canned dog food when you retire (if you retire). No other investment has done better than stocks in corporations over the long term.
“S & P 500 gain over the last 34 years was an annualized 10%”
And over the last 10 years it was zero. And they still are priced high by historic standards.
IMHO, “toning down the rhetoric” is not the same as being quiet. I think you can speak up without being incendiary.
Massive Silver Withdrawals From The Comex
We witnessed a massive withdrawal of silver unprecedented in the history of the comex. First there was a smallish 6507 oz of silver deposited to two customers, one being 497 oz and the other 6010 oz). But just look at the huge withdrawals:
Four customers (not dealers) withdrew a total of 1,019,310 oz from the comex vaults. This is real silver leaving from 4 registered vaults. The individual withdrawals are: 579,081, 30,380, 399,994 and 9855 oz.
“Gold has become again the world reserve currency. It is just that few realize the transition has already taken place. For the past 11 years every major currency has fallen in value versus gold from 13 to 20 percent annually. Versus silver, the figures range from 17 to 25 percent. This is a clear-cut ominous trend of a flight away from all currencies to gold and silver and quite a flight to safety. This movement by worldwide investors cannot be ignored. There obviously are many people that see what we see and in that process are dumping currencies for gold and silver related assets. Unfortunately, Americans are far behind in these changes with only 2% of the population participating. Ladies and gentlemen the second stage of the gold and silver bull market has just begun. Prices have fallen from their highs, what a great time to buy. ”
http://news.goldseek.com/InternationalForecaster/1294594200.php
Doesn’t ‘currency’ refer to a unit of exchange that households routinely use for the goods they buy and sell? I can’t say that I have EVER, and I repeat, EVER, seen anyone pay for anything with gold coin. But perhaps my experience is somehow unique.
Maybe I am in the dark, but I simply don’t grasp what the gold bugs are talking about when they refer to the Precious™ as a “currency.”
Your serious lack of knowledge on this subject does not make gold a non-currency.
Gold is a currency first and foremost for the last several thousand years.
The myopic masses are expected to see their brief experiment with debt based currency as the only currency hence your comment. You have been clearly duped by the fed reserve.
All central banks hold gold as currency for currency purposes. The paper US dollar began its life as a warehouse receipt.
Prof bear really should devote a bit of time learning about his own monetary system.
Wake up.
“what a great time to buy”
Sounds like a sales pitch.
“The danger isn’t that Big Brother may storm the castle gates. The danger is that Americans don’t realize that he is already inside the castle walls.”
~ Wayne LaPierre
Heh… Wayne LaPierre, senior cheerleader for the profit protection racket better known as NRA. Not much different that the profit protection racket for NAR.
Ditto AFSCME, AARP, Common Cause, etc.
Just tryin’ to be more inclusive.
And the distinction is that none of them advocate the use of deadly force.
The Jodi Foster fan member did use deadly force.
Ban Jodi Foster, while still there is time.
Running schmendrik. Nothing new there.
And thus Excreter loses again
Its all about targeting dissenters in America so that there isn’t any at all.
American Renaissance Denies DHS Charges, Any Affiliation With Shooter
A DHS memo obtained by Fox News suggested strong suspicion linking Jared Loughner, the man accused in the Tucson shooting on Saturday, to what it called an “anti-ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government) and anti-semitic” group known as American Renaissance.
In an effort to counter those charges, the head of the organization responded directly to Fox News’ James Rosen on Sunday.
Jared Taylor called DHS’ views “scurrilous” and took especial issue with the reference to his group being “anti-ZOG.”
A DHS memo obtained by Fox News suggested strong suspicion linking Jared Loughner, the man accused in the Tucson shooting on Saturday, to what it called an “anti-ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government) and anti-semitic” group known as American Renaissance……..
What “memo”?
who wrote it? to whom was it sent? Was the DHS tracking this guman? what is their position with DHS? What is their involvement with this case? any? who knows?
Maybe, a Jew working for DHS, who hates the American Renaissance group, wrote a note to a buddy in another department and said:
It wouldn’t surprise me to find the this Loughner guy was part of the American Renaissance group. I would suspect he was, because he was an anti-government kook.
Then someone forwards the note to FOX news.
Now you have someone with DHS writing a “memo” that this guy is tied to the other group. who knows?
It’s all just story-telling. I’m really sick of “informed sources” tell ABC news that……. or “someone close to the adminstration” has informed CBS that……….
Here it’s a MEMO obtained by FOX “suggest suspicion”…….
It’s like reading Pravda. In fact, Pravda probably has more substance to their claims.
For like the first… oh… 45-60 minutes after this incident, DC news radio (usually, pretty good) was reporting that the congresswoman was dead. Then, they upgraded her condition to alive. I got utterly fed up with the coverage at that point. I’m checking in every so often, but it’s just the same claptrap over and over.
I think he’s a plant from the FED.
He loved gold, so I am sure there will be a massive sell of gold in coming weeks.
Your posts are getting kind of weird.
But you don’t mention the even weirder excreter posts?
” . . . I am sure there will be a massive sell of gold in coming weeks.”
I hope so, I’ve been waiting for a dip to add to the stash.
butters:
The massive sell-off of gold has already begun. I’m sure it will not reverse over the “coming weeks”. You do realize that the US government keeps 80% of its reserves in gold, right?
You and lint are two peas in a pod. And CoSprings too.
Funny you say that, BigV, as I am the only person I’ve seen thus far on this board that agrees with your take on medical insurance.
Medical costs would indeed be much less now had there never been corporate/government involvement in the insurance industry. Too bad individuals haven’t always paid for insurance directly out-of-pocket.
Yeah, I’m also a Tea Partier. If you need a reason to place me in “that” group, feel free to use that fact. Whatever floats your boat.
AMICUS BRIEF FILED FOR LANDMARK MASSACHUSETTES CASES IBANEZ & LaRACE EXPOSES FORECLOSURE FRAUD
This is without question the most important decision so far in the war against the unlawful and fraudulent conduct of the originators, securitizers, out-source-providers, default servicers, and their so-called lawyers! The Judge articulates the business models we are dealing with better than anyone has done in any opinion, article or brief. I am sure your work contributed greatly to the education of the court and for that you should be highly commended. This Judge really and truly got it! It is the perfect outline of the transactional requirements and debunks every bogus argument that the other side has been advancing for year”.
Webmaster’s Commentary:
This Massachusetts State Supreme Court Decision is far bigger news than the Arizona shooting. The wounding of a congresswoman, tragic as it is, does not affect our daily lives. But this court decision, which may set the precedent that invalidates million and millions of fraudulent foreclosures, impacts every community in the nation.
The bankers do not want you paying attention to this court ruling.
The bankers are desperate not to see identical lawsuits and identical decisions start to appear in the other 49 states.
The Federal Government took your jobs to make it easy for the banks to take your homes to bail themselves out of the fraudulent mortgage-backed security scandal. Now the banks have been caught in even more fraud. The wheels are coming off the foreclosure wagon, and how lucky for the bankers the media has another story to stay obsessed with this weekend!
Please forward the story of the Massachusetts State Supreme Court Decision to all your friends and networks. Tell them this is what affects their lives.
“News is what someone wants to suppress. Everything else is advertising”.
former NBC news President Rubin Frank
‘The Federal Government took your jobs to make it easy for the banks to take your homes to bail themselves out of the fraudulent mortgage-backed security scandal. Now the banks have been caught in even more fraud.’
This is the root of why this is a non-issue:
‘What would happen if scores of people who had lost their homes to foreclosure somehow persuaded a judge to overturn the proceedings? Could they somehow win back the rights to their homes, free and clear of any mortgage?’
‘On Oct. 1, Old Republic National Title Insurance Company released a notice forbidding any agents or employees to issue new policies on homes that had been recently foreclosed by GMAC Mortgage or Chase.’
‘Clearly, the title insurer was also worried about a situation in which untold numbers of former homeowners have their foreclosures overturned. At that point, those individuals might claim the right to take back their old homes…’
‘… but they’d also be responsible for, say, a $400,000 loan on a home that is worth half that.’
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/09/your-money/mortgages/09money.html?_r=1
I’m still waiting to see the outcome of the house I “bought” in October that was a FREDDIE MAC foreclosure. As I previously posted, they canceled the sale due to prior occupant filing a suit to reclaim the house. According to the neighbors, she borrowed 180,000 to “buy” the house in 2005 or 6. Hadn’t paid the mortgage in more than a year since before foreclosure. It is less than 800 sq. ft.
Average construction. I contracted in the mid 60’s.
I drove by yesterday. Still apparently vacant.
The “owner” thinks she can get it back under reduced terms, I am sure. Would anyone in their right mind pay 180,000 for a 25 year old block house of less than 800 s.f.? No carport, no garage, no special features. Plain house. I am going to look at another near by today. It is 1200 S.f., 15 years older, recently reduced to $54,900. Let’s see 10,000 less money. Bigger house. Hummm?
Needs some work, but not trashed.
All these DEFAULTERs want the house, without the payment. They were, after all, cheated by the bank who loaned them the full amount of money they applied for, and after getting the house at the price they were willing to pay (outbidding me every time), they are now unwilling to pay the money they borrowed.
I only wish we had a LOSER PAY court system. It would stop a lot of these stupid claims.
I made a lot of “design” reno’s on the other house so have an emotional attachment having mentally moved in and remodeled.
The banksters have screwed up the paperwork so bad, that it could take 20 years to figure out who REALLY “owns” the house. Any property that has changed hands or been refinanced since 2000-2001 is suspect.
Unlsee the law is once again thrown under the bus, for the sake of “expediency”
It’s almost to the point where I’m kicking myself for not going out and buying a nice McMansion in 2006-2007, and not making a payment on it.
It makes me wonder if it is possible to ever get ahead in the USA in the current climate, without gaming the system.
“It makes me wonder if it is possible to ever get ahead in the USA in the current climate, without gaming the system.”
Only if you’re very lucky.
I’m fooked them.
But I already suspected that……
I think the banks could very easily furnish documentation proving they have the right to foreclose. They don’t have to own the mortgage to foreclose, they only have to own the servicing rights. IMO, the reason they are not providing these documents up front is that they are afraid the courts might notice other unsavory details in the paperwork, such as noncontractual underwriting practices or multiple assignments of the same mortgage.
When will they start prosecuting those who said they could afford the mtge payments , but lied?
Those loan officers already lost their jobs with Countrywide.
Here’s a TearParty “leader” advocating violence using firearms.
“I pray to God that this revolt is one that we can handle with a ballot. Because if we can’t handle [it] with a ballot, God forbid what comes next. If it isn’t a ballot, at some point it will be a bullet.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbKt82tFovE
Now that the hate rhetoric has fully manifested itself and crystallized in the warped mind of one of it’s followers, POS who run these organizations like the Tear Party, Palin, Dick Armey and other corporate funded greed heads are lawyering up. As they should.
Just a warning for you who advocate or cheerlead the overthrow of the US govt and threaten duly elected officials….. watch your step.
How quickly we have forgotten the rhetoric of the Black Panthers, SDS, Weather Underground, etc.
I’m happy to inform you that those organizations have nothing to do with the execution of U.S. District Judge John Roll and attempted murder of Congresswoman Giffords.
Your opinion is meaningless. Last night you claimed the shooter is ex-military.
didn’t think the tea party liked the communist manifesto though
I don’t care much for the extreme conservatism/authoritarianism but I read Mein Kampf.
Did you embrace it.
Too, does liking Jodi Foster indicate one wishes to behave like Mr. Hinkley?
Again…. just because I study the Old Testament doesn’t mean I adhere to the jewish faith.
Get it yet?
No.
Gifford was shot because of Jodi Foster.
We get it.
heh.
Ok so you’re running from the failed manifesto argument. Please provide some reasonable defense for your gunman/TearParty patriot.
No you didn’t address the Commie Manifesto thing. There was nothing to address. Reading and Embracing are different things. You responded with a Straw Man. As usual.
Ban Jodi Foster Fans while there is still time!!!!!
(Like the exclamations. I’m borrowing from the left. Next it’ll be all caps). Heh hah.
“If it isn’t a ballot, at some point it will be a bullet.”
I hope these people are feeling deeply ashamed today of their folly.
Right , the potential for nut cakes to act was just in the air . In fact
for some reason I cancelled a trip I was gong to take to Arizona and I couldn’t understand why I was doing it .
Didn’t everybody feel like something like this was going to happen eventually with all the heated debate and extreme symbolism going
on . We have had people murdering their spouses claiming the cause was the economy .
Yeah, like the environmentalists whose wacko brought bombs to the Discovery Channel building.
Or the Jodi Fan who shoot politicians.
Or Zeus for a lightning storm.
Or last week’s snowstorm being BECAUSE OF Global Warming.
This Board is pretty shallow today. Y’all starting to sound like the MSM we used to mock
Who the h3ll is this guy and what is the deal with Jodie Foster?
Even the HBB has fruitcakes.
Remember PAlien’s “Take back the 20″ crusade that superimposed gun scope crosshairs on congressional districts including Congresswoman Giffords? Well PAlien took it down minutes after Congresswoman Giffords attempted execution by one of her followers. PAlien, Armey, Judson Phillips and other assorted TearParty knuts are running scared and lawyering up.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5050/5336322495_c803bb1ca4_b.jpg
Why not post which other congressional districts they show in the cross hairs so we can track the success of Palin’s movement going forward?
Click provided above.
Is Law School a Losing Game?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?_r=1&ref=business&pagewanted=all
WHEN Mr. Wallerstein started at Thomas Jefferson, he was in no mood for austerity. He borrowed so much that before the start of his first semester he nearly put a down payment on a $350,000 two-bedroom, two-bath condo, figuring that the investment would earn a profit by the time he graduated. He was ready to ink the deal until a rep at the mortgage giant Countrywide asked if his employer at the time — a trade magazine publisher in New Jersey — would write a letter falsely stating that he was moving to San Diego for work.
“We were on a three-way call with my real estate agent and I said I didn’t feel comfortable with that,” he says. “The Countrywide guy chuckled and said, ‘Everyone lies on their mortgage application.’ ”
Yeah, his embrace of Communist Manifesto proves his right wing nutsiness.
Most nuts are angry about something.
Hinkley shot a President to impress Jodi Foster, thus proving Jodi Foster to be an evil cause. Right. I get it.
Weird.
Mein Kampf was also on his favorites list.
He was nuts, and maybe when all the noise dies down we’ll hear why he shot those people.
Noted in Yahoo today:
Police: 2 dead, 4 hurt in Baltimore club shooting.
Thus proving that dislike of night clubs encourages violence.
Palin hates night clubs, so there you go…..
Some people on this blog are already working overtime doing the same.
Politico: Dems Want To Blame Tea Partyers:
One veteran Democratic operative, who blames overheated rhetoric for the shooting, said President Barack Obama should carefully but forcefully do what his predecessor did. They need to deftly pin this on the tea partiers,” said the Democrat. “Just like the Clinton White House deftly pinned the Oklahoma City bombing on the militia and anti-government people.”
So Obama’s political gains are what matter in this murder fest?
Go… figure…
“Dems Want To Blame Tea Partyers”
1. I’m not a ‘Dem.’
2. I’m not sure that the fact she tried to hijack the Tea Party movement qualifies Sarah Palin as a ‘Tea Partyer.’
3. I hope you don’t suggest that posting informative articles showing how Sarah Palin’s web site put Gifford’s congressional district into the cross hairs of a gun site equates to ‘blaming her’ for what happened.
4. Stupid is as stupid does.
1. It wasn’t meant to you. But it’s clear that how politicos from left and right will spin tragedies to their likings.
2. Palin is a low hangin fruit. She is a dumb b!tch. Don’t get all the fascination lefties has with her.
3. Isn’t it akin to blaming ACDC or Marilyn Manson for their lyrics? I don’t get the gun talk either. It’s way overdone IMO. But more than Palin’s rhetoric, we should focus on a country and it’s leaders who have no problem proposing violence and wars against some foreign land without any reason or sense. And sadly that goes for Ms. Giffords as well. Turns out she was a war loving politician.
4. Right back at ya!
“4. Right back at ya!”
Maybe I wasn’t clear, but when I said ’stupid is as stupid does,’ I was referring to politicians putting their opponents into the cross hairs of gun sites. If you are trying to suggest that my pointing this out somehow reflects on my own stupidity, then that is certainly your First Amendment right to do so, but kindly don’t depict me as the target of your gun.
No. Right back at ya! = I AGREE
Funny you mentioned it I don’t even own a gun. Never fired one either. I remember cleaning Great Gradpa’s relic guns as a kid. Thankfully, none of them fired.
My next big purchase would most likely be a golden gun. Two birds with one bullet or something like that.
” Palin is a low hangin fruit. She is a dumb b!tch. Don’t get all the fascination lefties has with her.”
I don’t get the fascination righties have with her, either. She sure is able to pull people in to rallies. That is probably at the root of lefties fascination. Her influence combined with her apparent lack of knowledge is disturbing.
—4. Stupid is as stupid does.—-
Substituting bromides and platitudes for serious discourse rarely is helpful.
Clearly this whole thing stems from Jodi Foster fandom
evildoc
I was just trying to humor y’all. I could have just been blunt, and written:
4. Sarah Palin is a maroon.
Sure, drag Bugs Bunny into this.
Maybe the shooter liked HIM as a kid
“…pinned the Oklahoma City bombing on the militia and anti-government people.”
I remember my coworkers that day jumping to the conclusion that Iranian terrorists had some how infiltrated Oklahoma City’s federal building to plant a bomb. They surprised, though unrepentant, when word came out that a U.S. military veteran had carried out the act.
That’s why it’s wise to wait for all the details to come out.
On the other hand, a close friend and I correctly deduced the 9/11 attacks were a coordinated terrorist action the morning they were happening. We had some sharp disagreements with colleagues who thought it was some kind of isolated rogue action. We were self-righteously smug when media reports later confirmed our hunches…
That’s right. McVeigh was a bonafide, white separatist, anti-government, extreme conservative.
And the Discovery Channel Bomber was an left wing environmentalist.
And Unablabber was left wing.
And JFK’s assassin.
and… so?
Who is pro-government?
Anyone?
Hello?
Well, Polly, excreter, rio, grizzly, Eco, oxide, alpha, measton…
Me? Pro gov?
Because I like clean water, safe food, safe buildings, safe cars, safe roads, safe machinery, being paid for work performed, protection from criminals, and clean air?
Yeah, I guess so.
How that’s Wall St./FIRE sector free market thing working for you?
We have this Bankster-inspired economic Chernobyl to illustrate the folly of letting the “free-market regulate itself”.
Might I suggest that if we didn’t have government around to do a reasonable job of doing everything on Eco’s list, that we would have to DIY, which leaves a lot less time available for actually going to a job, much less any other kind of activity?
Read some stories about life on the High Plains, circa 1865-70. They lived in an Ayn Rand dreamland.
Call me a big puss, but I kinda like living in the 21st Century.
If you love the government parasites then why don’t you fund them and let the rest of us have property rights and ownership.
What is mine is not yours. You want a road? Then pay for it yourself.
If you love the government parasites then why don’t you fund them and let the rest of us have property rights and ownership.
If thats what you want you only need move south of the border. Property taxes are negigible, and so are income taxes. Most decent highways are toll roads, while most neighborhood streets resemble the surface of the moon.
“Pay for it yourself”
I already do, and I’m not bitching about it. Do I think the government wastes money? Sure. But I’m not going to take my ball and go home.
I’d really like it if we set aside some nice little tropical island for all the Lunatic Fringe/Lint’s World/Don’t-need-government-for- nothing types to move to……..no taxes, no government.
You could even sell the TV rights. Call it “Survivor:Lords of the Flies”
Another clue for the “pay as you go” crowd.
NOBODY will work for you, at least anyone that has a choice. Why? Because you would constantly be bitching about paying too much, and getting crappy service. No matter what kind of service you get, or what you paid.
I know a guy who is looking for someone to sue (the mechanic or the shop that repaired his airplane) everytime something breaks on his airplane. And he wonders why he can’t get his airplane fixed.
So he cons/strong arms his non-trained, non licensed PILOT to fix it. (”I’m paying you to get me where I want to go…..if you can’t do it, I’ll fire you and find someone else who will”). This works, until the first time it doesn’t.
Lint this is a free country and you are free to not use those services.
But you won’t, will you?
Hypocrisy, how does it work?
Here’s a thought: there are still plenty of countries just the way you would like. YOU should move there. Let us know how long you live.
Hypocrisy, how does it work?
hate to break it to you but it’s not hypocrisy if he’s already paid for those services.
Count me among pro-government. We need government to do the things we can’t do individually.
And I am content to contribute my share to the government through taxes. I contribute my taxes to the CDC, NIH, SEC, EPA. Someone else can contribute to the wars.
It snowed more last week than it did last year on this week, thus “proving” Anthropogenic Global Warming.
Stop upending the climate change alarmists’ doomsday scenario! Anyway, if it snowed more than usual, that is probably connected somehow to global warming, don’tcha think?
Yah, and if it snowed less than usual it also would have been connected to global warming. Also if it had snowed the same…
Doc, say it with me slowly. After all, they ARE big words.
Asynchronous oscillation of a disturbed dynamic equilibrium system.
Ask someone to help to help you with the hard ones if you need to.
Doc, say it with me slowly. After all, they ARE big words….Asynchronous oscillation of a disturbed dynamic equilibrium system.
Do it doc, cuz Jodie Foster likes big words.
—Do it doc, cuz Jodie Foster likes big words.—
Thus again proving my point.
I love this board.
Thus again proving my point…I love this board.
doc,
I don’t believe you doc, I think your ego would love to love this board but you are not looking so good today.
For example, please explain “your (Jodie Foster) point” to us all and how my theme today “proves your point”.
My quoted theme that you says proves your “point”:
…there are nuts.
Violent rhetoric and symbolism will affect nuts of any party.
Violent rhetoric and symbolism should not be used by any of our 2 political parties.
But violent rhetoric and symbolism were used by the GOP. They thought it was patriotically “edgie” in a warped way.
They are desperately running from this fact but they can’t hide from it.
—For example, please explain “your (Jodie Foster) point” to us all and how my theme today “proves your point”.—-
It’s in the thread. You can read?
It’s in the thread. You can read?
There is nothing there doc. You know it. We know it. For the third time:
Please explain “your (Jodie Foster) point” to us all and how my theme today “proves your point”.
My quoted theme that you says proves your “point”:
…there are nuts.
Violent rhetoric and symbolism will affect nuts of any party.
Violent rhetoric and symbolism should not be used by any of our 2 political parties.
But violent rhetoric and symbolism were used by the GOP. They thought it was patriotically “edgie” in a warped way.
They are desperately running from this fact but they can’t hide from it.
Must be inspired by Jodi Foster.
Ooooh… we wish to exchange funky woids.
That could be fun.
I love a “problem” in which less, more and same proves the problem.
Never mind that even if the problem were true, it is merely an unsolvable substitute for the real problem.
Fun stuff.
Nothing to be ashamed of. Many people are able to lead productive lives never learning how string complex concepts together.
Some of them even become professionals. Well, sort of.
“…how TO string…”
mmm hmmm…..
ecofeco proves his own point… about only himself.
Funstuff.
heh hah
ecofeco proves his own point… about only himself.
Funstuff.
heh hah
Because of of a missing word in a quickly typed truth? This is what you’re hanging your hat on?
You need serious reflection doc, and I’m being generous.
As long as we squelch the Jodi Foster Fan Club, no doubt this will never happen again
I sincerely hope you aren’t licensed to practice.
Who knew this guy was a follower of Palin and Tea Party since 2007?
New York Times:
Another former high school classmate said that Mr. Loughner may have met Representative Giffords, who was shot in the head outside the Safeway supermarket, several years ago.
“As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy,” the former classmate, Caitie Parker, wrote in a series of Twitter feeds Saturday. “I haven’t seen him since ’07 though. He became very reclusive.”
“He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in ’07, asked her a question & he told me she was ‘stupid & unintelligent,’ ” she wrote.
‘…stupid & unintelligent,…’
Take it from a community college dropout…
Seriously though, have you heard anything intelligent from any politician lately?
They just babble their talking points all the time. Listening to a politician is a lot like listening to a sports star.
Especially since he enrolled in a “pre-algebra” class at Pima CC. Good heavens, what did he do in high school?
Flunked out of pre-algebra? (Aside: I used to teach a community college math class to this type…)
Did they ever ask “how am I going to use this in REAL LIFE”? lol
Community college is a great deal if you can ignore the detritus that shows up there.
“Community college is a great deal if you can ignore the detritus that shows up there.”
Agreed. I even felt like my students were getting a great deal when I was their instructor. Now my sister, who is actually much better than I am at teaching community college math students, is providing a good deal to her students. Much to her credit, she actually requires the students to learn the subject she teaches in order to pass her course.
Talking of intelligence, here’s an awesome article.
The Disadvantages of an Elite Education
http://theamericanscholar dot org/the-disadvantages-of-an-elite-education/
The world that produced John Kerry and George Bush is indeed giving us our next generation of leaders. The kid who’s loading up on AP courses junior year or editing three campus publications while double-majoring, the kid whom everyone wants at their college or law school but no one wants in their classroom, the kid who doesn’t have a minute to breathe, let alone think, will soon be running a corporation or an institution or a government. She will have many achievements but little experience, great success but no vision. The disadvantage of an elite education is that it’s given us the elite we have, and the elite we’re going to have.
That is an excellent article!
““So are you saying that we’re all just, like, really excellent sheep?” ”
It gives me a little more peace about my son’s choice of writing and philosophy. He bemoans his classmates who major in Business. He recognizes that they are pursuing vocational education at college. I have no idea how he will make a living, but thanks to my folks, he has the luxury of pursuing the education he wants without incurring staggering debt.
Houses still cost too much.
Now look at what you did. Excreter will start blaming the HBB for yesterday’s shootings.
Stop flailing Bile. It’s unbecoming of an extremist.
Bile isn’t flailing.
He is cheerfully mocking you. Doing good job too
I think excreter is disappointed now that the authorities cleared the 40ish “man of interest. ” excreter wants a vast right wing conspiracy. Hmm…where did I hear that phrase before?
Here’s a nice San Diego county home for you, from the low $100’s:
$115,000 (last list price)
44482 Calexico Ave
Jacumba, CA 91934
Beds: 2 On Redfin: 1091 days
Baths: 1 Year Built: 1959
Sq.Ft.: 988 Lot Size: 0.25 a
$/Sq.Ft.: $116 MLS#: 082003733
Status: Active
Last Sale: -
1091 days
I am in SE Florida. Do you think if I walk to San Diego it will still be available? Shouldn`t take me more than a hundred days or so.
Something tells me you will be disappointed if you walk all the way to San Diego in order to take possession on that house…
“All done over” How cute! Newbie-crack? NAR, wake up!
“The rent is too damn high.”
Who knew that guy was a genius?
The Rent’s too damn high
The 9 year old girl who was killed yesterday was born September 11, 2001
Yeah I was stunned when I read that.
Born on a day of ideological fundamentalism. Died at the hands of a ideological fundamentalist.
Yeah. That Communist Manifesto thing again…
heh
Maybe some people become violent because they become fed up with a constant stream of LIES from their government:
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama sees a clear and encouraging trend on the economy, citing fresh reports showing private-sector job growth and lower unemployment.
He used his weekly radio and Internet address Saturday to discuss the latest economic news and press for bipartisan action in the newly divided Congress on measures to spur growth. Obama presented the December jobs report in a positive light even though it fell short of what economists had been looking for and even though the drop in unemployment came partly because some people stopped looking for work.
The private sector added 103,000 new jobs in December and the unemployment rate fell from 9.8 percent to 9.4 percent.
“Now, we know that these numbers can bounce around from month to month. But the trend is clear,” said the president, whose 2012 re-election prospects may well hinge on the condition of the economy.
“We saw 12 straight months of private sector job growth — the first time that’s been true since 2006,” he said. The economy added 1.3 million jobs last year. And each quarter was stronger than the last, which means the pace of hiring is picking up, he said.
Oh yes, everything is improving SO MUCH, as in unemployment numbers; when half the people who want to work but are unemployed are simply NOT COUNTED, because it would be too embarrassing to the Govt.
Or as in when we are told there is NO INFLATON, because we don’t count food or energy costs, because it would be too embarrassing to the Govt.
Or as in when we are told we can’t secure our own border, because it would not be politically “correct” and we just can’t have that, because it would be too embarrassing to the Govt.
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act” -George Orwell
No, it would be too embarrassing to the corporations who raise prices, layoff citizens but hire cheaper illegals aliens.
The gov is just their frontman/scapegoat to distract the naive from the real culprits.
Just flipped through the pages of the SD Union-Tribune’s Sunday real estate listings. Here are my observations:
1) There is no shortage of high end stuff on the market relative to paltry demand.
2) Some of it is priced much lower than it would have been a few years back (e.g. Point Loma corner lot home w/ below ground pool, hot tub and fire pit, priced “on the range” from $650,000 - $825,000; would not have listed below $1m in 2006).
3) The stupid range pricing is still in vogue (why would anyone offer $825K if they knew they could get it for $650K?).
4) There are also plenty of mispriced houses; qualified buyers could easily overpay by hundreds of thousands of dollars if they don’t do their homework, as many sellers are still pricing off 2006 price levels.
“The stupid range pricing is still in vogue (why would anyone offer $825K if they knew they could get it for $650K?).”
Since the Christmas holiday is behind us I’ve seen more than few over-the-top wishing prices. That’s when I turn to my DH and declare “bank owned”.
I would think the banks would price under market, as I keep reading how they want to quickly unload REO inventory off their books…
Fannie Mae is reinstating down payment requirements in a long overdue effort to restore sanity to the mortgage lending business. Cry me a river! There has never been a better time to rent; deal with it!
P.S. If the Obama proposals for GSE reform come with the opportunity to provide public comment, please post a link here if you are aware of one (and I will do the same).
Even with great credit and big down payment, home loans will cost more in 2011
By Kenneth R. Harney
Saturday, January 8, 2011; 12:00 PM
Here’s mortgage giant Fannie Mae’s sobering New Year’s greeting for home buyers and refinancers in 2011: Give me more money. If you want a loan this year, you’re going to have to pay more - thousands of dollars more in some cases - even if you have stellar credit scores and bundles of cash handy for a down payment. Things could get much worse if your scores have been sagging with the economy and you don’t have much money up front.
In a Dec. 23 memo to lenders in its network, Fannie announced that it has decided to impose a new schedule of higher add-on fees, similar to what Freddie Mac, the other huge congressionally chartered mortgage investor, rolled out to jeers from the real estate industry just before Thanksgiving.
Both corporations have required massive federal financial infusions, estimated at close to $150 billion, since the housing market began deteriorating, and they now operate under a federal “conservatorship” arrangement. The Obama administration plans to submit long-promised proposals to Congress this month on what to do with the two - phase them out, restructure them, privatize one or both of them, or implement other solutions.
…
Not really wanting to rehash a discussion from yesterday, but there’s a point to be made…….and I’m the guy to make it.
When discussing food stamp recipients, please banish the phrase “…..they were driving a car a lot nicer than mine…..” from the discussion.
You guys are all the time bragging about how you are still driving 15-20 year old cars. Nothing wrong with that, but the fact of the matter is that about 98% of the population has cars that “are nicer than yours”.
I am selling my cars to buy food. Is it OK if I say they were driving a car and I don`t even own one?
Nothing wrong with that, but the fact of the matter is that about 98% of the population has cars that “are nicer than yours”.
Thanks for the laugh :-).
For the record, the fixr’s stable consists of car’s from the following model years: 1973 (3ea, one of which is currently drivable and registered), two 2001’s and my daughter’s 2002 and 2003s. All from the Big 3.
By the logic shown by some, I should have sold them all, and burned all my savings before I took a dime of unemployment from the state last year. Never mind the fact that I’ve worked pretty much continuously since 1973.
But that’s why I’m such a parasite, I suppose. I felt “entitled” to unemployment checks, after paying into the system for 37 years.
Did you ever buy that Corvette?
No……..my daughters convinced me that buying it would scream “Middle Aged divorcee having a midlife crisis”.
Still……..I could have bought it, worked the few little cosmetic issues it had, and probably made a couple thousand bucks selling it next spring.
I can add it the the list of “cars I shoulda bought” ……like the running, driving Plymouth Superbird for $1500……or the 1969 Dodge Super Bee
440-6pak, 4 speed & Dana 60, 50K miles for $6000…….or the 1963 “Split Window” Vette for $5000……or my buddy’s 1968 Z/28 Camaro for $2500…..or the 1969 SS 396 Chevelle for $900….or my buddy’s “Nr Norm’s” supercharged 1972 340 Demon.
I could have swung all of these purchases, but it would have required that I stick my neck out a little bit financially, at the time.
Post must have dissappeared.
No. The daughter’s convinced me it would scream “Middle-aged, Mid-Life Crisis” Guy…..
That, and they sold it.
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that nowadays, you can buy a bunch of 5-10 year old, fairly low mileage, high-end cars for less than a new Kia or Mini?
The trick is to not have it as your “daily driver”. You can fix them either “quick” or “relatively cheap”. Pick one.
I’m thinking 2000-2002 Jag XK8 coupe…….or a mid-90s BMW 840i
I am very tempted.
I long have loved the look of the XK-8. 1998 can be had for $13k. How much fun.
But, not yet. This evildoc has pulled extra hours at hospital for years, saving cash in (yeah, nothing is safe, i know) FDIC insured accounts paying little. Waiting out the mess.
One day…
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that nowadays, you can buy a bunch of 5-10 year old, fairly low mileage, high-end cars for less than a new Kia or Mini?
Yes. That’s why my wife is driving a Mercedes now.
saving cash in (yeah, nothing is safe, i know) FDIC insured accounts paying little.
You could have made 75% in 2010 with all your cash in silver.
You will have another chance. Unlikely you will take it.
Fox has not made silver ownership cool yet.
The only thing I’m worried about on both is the “Nikasil” bores in the engine blocks. But I suppose you can always find a salvage engine and sleeve it. That, and any electronically controlled auto transmissions.
The trick is figuring out what kind of car will be popular at the Barrett Jackson auction in 2025-2030. Pick the right car, and you may be able to drive 20 years for free.
Actually, I’d think about buying a late model Cessna 182 right now, if I could ever get a full time job again. They are selling at about a 50% discount from 2007 prices. Get everyone in the family their pilots license, then sell it when the market picks up in a few years.
The PERFECT investment for the current economy and state of the union:
Silver Bullets.
Coors sells them in convenient 6, 12, and 18 packs
Forgot about those……The OTHER Silver bullets.
Do they work on Zombies?
No……..my daughters convinced me that buying it would scream “Middle Aged divorcee having a midlife crisis”.
Brazilians male and female, accept and understand the male mid-life crisis more than Americans do.
They also have in place certain social and legalized avenues to mitigate it.
Corvettes are usually not part of it because they are way too expensive for most.
I would buy the car I wanted if and when I wanted it. (if I could afford it)
For the record, I don`t think people who lose their jobs should not receive unemployment while they are looking for a job as it seems like you were Mr. X-GSfixr, I don`t think families that need assistance buying food should not receive it and I think people who can`t afford housing should receive help.
However, I am in my second rental house since 2005 where the LL has collected rent and not payed the mortgage, I personally know of several others doing the same thing. The first neighborhood had 2 gentleman on full SS disability and had been for years, who were about my age and just as healthy as I am. There was a lawyer in that neighborhood who told me he was going to stop making his mortgage payment (even though he could afford it) because he payed $300k for a house that was only worth $200k (and much less now) and another lawyer had advised him to do this to get a loan mod. I know of many people who have been living in their house for going on 3 years without making a payment. And believe it or not I see people get free groceries who are obviously scamming. Now what I have not said is I also see people who get that assistance that obviously do need the help.
I am 51 years old and I made over $65k once in my life, I am trying to finish raising 3 daughters and I have never worked for anyone besides myself who payed for my health insurance. I have never been foreclosed on, evicted or had anything repossessed. I have always busted my @ss and payed my bills and my taxes while trying to give my kids what they need.
Sure, put the banksters and wall street crooks in jail, fine with me. But that`s not where I live and that`s not what I see around me. I see a lot of people as capable as I am and in some cases much more capable milking the system every chance they get.
Hate to break the bad news, but you are NEVER done raising daughters.
But I know what you are saying. A lot of the differences on this board are arguments about who should the law go after first. …..the crooks who play the system, or the crooks who designed the system?
My view is that you have to start at the top and work down.
“My view is that you have to start at the top and work down.”
I am fond of what Patton said when he was asked. General, what would you do if you found your army between the Germans and the Russians? Patton replied “I would attack in both directions”
We’d need unlimited resources to attack in both directions.
I’m looking at the Reduction-in-stealing/cost ratio.
“No. The daughter’s convinced me it would scream “Middle-aged, Mid-Life Crisis” Guy…..”
“That, and they sold it.”
I wanted a corvette since I was a kid and a cabinet guy I know who was going through a divorce a couple of years ago was selling his for about $8k. Couple of problems for me too, not much of a family or work vehicle not to mention it was a real b@tch to get in and out of at my age and degree of beatupedness. But some day soon I hope to have a mid-life crisis.
Yeah, that 94 was a PITA to get in and out of. The C5s aren’t much better. The 68-82s are a lot better in that regard
One of my mental exercise rattling around in my head is to find a NON-numbers matching 1972-78 (a lot cheaper), then replace the drivetrain with a mid-90s port fuel injected LT-1, with a Tremec 5/6 speed. Will run better than new, and get decent gas mileage.
Being a kid in the 70s, nothing looks cheesier to me now than a plastic (fibreglass?) bumper C3. It might be a good choice for what you want, but I’d never be able to get over that. We always drooled over the C2s, though.
Who is pro-American government?
Anyone?
Hello?
We have met the government, and they are us. From what country are you posting, by the way?
“We have met the government, and they are us.”
No, it’s not. Would the bailouts have happened if that were the case?
For more info on who is the government, see something everyone should see:
America’s Ruling Class — And the Perils of Revolution - at spectator.org
The Only way to fight them is to, “Opt Out” the non-violent way.
BTW, I’ve seen store keepers that accept gold, and many stores accept silver. I just saw a video about a grocer that does.
Point taken — let me restate that: “We have met the government, and they are a tiny minority of us with about 99% of the bank.”
Good question, ProBear.
If it’s a choice between Wall St. or the gov (and those seem to be the only 2 available these days), I guess I would have to pick the trillion dollar crook, Wall St.
After all, it takes great skill to steal that much money and give absolutely noting back in exchange. And that’s what we admire most in this country, skilled crooks. (the amateurs go into government)
Arizona Chief U.S. District Judge John M. Roll Killed in Tucson Attack
Tags:
John McCarthy Roll, Arizona’s chief federal trial judge, was slain Saturday morning in the gun attack in Tucson which gravely wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz. At least five others were killed in the attack, and as many as 12 more were wounded.
whatreallyhappened Webmaster’s Commentary:
Anyone besides me notice that the media’s focus is entirely on the wounded congresswoman while ignoring all the dead people? As of this writing, Loughner hasn’t said whether it was the judge or the Congresswoman who was the intended target. The judge did have enemies, mostly from his supporting of illegal immigrants suing homeowners who shot at them.
I wondered about this until Eric Cantor put a hold on Congress and the ADL started screaming about anti-Semitics being behind the attack. That is when the light went on. Congresswoman Giffords is Jewish!
Remember back when Columbia crashed? The media lionized Israel’s passenger on the shuttle (same man who had flown the raid that bombed Iraq’s power station) to the exclusion of all the other crew members. It was almost sickening to see the US media making a hero out of Ilian Ramon and treating the other victims of the Columbia disaster as if they were background scenery only.
We are apparently seeing the same again today. A wounded Congresswoman takes the center stage, while the people actually killed are relegated to the status of a footnote!
Don’t be gettin’ uppity!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/09/jared-lee-loughner-rightwing-rants
–>The tone of Loughner’s rantings is almost exclusively conservative and anti-government, with echoes of the populist campaigning of the Tea Party movement. “Don’t trust the government listener!” he said in one video, accusing Washington of mind control and brainwashing.
The US constitution, the bible of the Tea Parties, features heavily, as does the suggestion that the federal government is acting against the text. “You don’t have to accept the federalist laws. Read the United States of America constitution to apprehend all of the current treasonous laws.”<—
So this TearParty wingnut is another strict constitutional constructionist in name(not that he actually read or understand it). During eight years under President Bush, conservatives/future teabaggers treated the Constitution like it was just a goddamned piece of paper; ever since President Obama took office, they’ve come to see it as an object worthy of fetishization. Hypocrites.
I think he might have liked Jodi Foster
When will his copy of “Catcher in the Rye” surface???
Nut shooter was rejected by army. No military background there.
Also just got handed five federal charges, including murder of a federal judge. Can you say ” lethal injection?”
Turns out the man of interest was just a cabbie who drove the killer to the scene. Authorities cleared him.
But but but… what if the cabby likes the Tea Party????
“But but but… what if the cabby likes the Tea Party????”
Regardless, the rifle crosshair poster came down and now her aids and the right wing talking heads are trying to spin them as merely innocent “surveyor’s symbols”
Like it or not, a young nut may have delivered this awful message but doesn’t she and her little TP friends own the Infamy to the Palin Crosshair Massacre.
You Betcha’ n’
Maybe he likes Jodi Foster…
Maybe he likes Jodi Foster…
maybe it’s time to give that one a rest? You’re just vomiting all over the thread at this point.
As long as excreter will vomit, someone needs to vomit back.
stop talking about jodi foster
As long as excreter will vomit, someone needs to vomit back.
so we should all drink ipecac then?
:: goes to get his Gallagher protective sheeting… ::
The shooter “stiffed” the cabbie, which is why the cabbie followed him into the Safeway store.
So he got something for nothing?
That decides it……he must have been a liberal.
If he was a Tea-Partier, he would have cashed his Social Security check, or his paycheck from his government job, then paid for it.
The federal government does not have the death penalty. Only states do.
Millions of victims would disagree.
???
The federal government does not have the death penalty. Only states do.
Which state executed Timothy McVeigh?
Did he have a recorded background of mental illness or crime? If so, how did he get a gun?
Left Wing quotes, from the PRES? Who knew?
Do these encourage violence too?
** Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun” ** Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!” ** Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!” ** Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard” ** Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“ ** Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat” ** Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.” ** Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.” ** Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”
Rush Limbaugh. Every single day.
Game. Set. Match.
Quit while you’re behind.
So, you equate Obama with Rush?
Looks like overtime, heh hah.
Looks like overtime, heh hah.
evildoc, (heh hah??)
Man…. I’ll bet 90% of the doctors reading this board wish you never let people know you were a doctor.
Man… I’ll just bet you are used to losing bets.
Heh, hah.
Regards
Your Evildoc
Little bit of different between “fight” metaphors that every cheerleader squad uses, and terms embracing the imagery of semi-automatic weapons, doncha think?
“Bring a gun”. charming metaphor.
You weanies continue to err, attributing his action today to a political group with whom you disagree, instead of recognizing it is because of the Jodie Foster Fanclub.
You weanies continue to err, attributing his action today to a political group with whom you disagree, instead of recognizing it is because of the Jodie Foster Fanclub.
evildoc,
I wonder if someone reading your today’s postings with their inherent strangeness, twisting of other’s points, hostility, warped logic and an obsession with a Jodie Foster point that has yet to be explained in plain English, well I wonder if they would feel comfortable with you as their medical doctor. I would not even if I generally agreed with your politics.
And in light of my pondering above, I wonder why you would choose the name “evildoc”.
You win, I’m a Weenie, you’re an EvilDoc.
Has anyone heard from ArizonaSlim?
AzSlim probably does not venture much into northwest Tucson where the killer struck. she would have to ride her bike up either Oracle Road or Campbell or go way west and circle around to bike up Ina. Oracle and Campbell are not only hills, but the auto traffic is very heavy and the road shoulders are narrow. I lived for a year on north Oracle Rd and for three years on Ina. The little upscale strip mall where the shootings occurred is at the southeast corner of Oracle and Ina. Up in the Catalina Foothills.
ArizonaSlim seems to bike around the university area.
I finally watched the TV news on this, ABC, CNN, CBS. It all is so weird to me. Also that the snootier lived in a house probably a mile from my apartment where my girlfriend and I lived. Seeing Safeway on the networks, knowing that even Fidel Castro commented on events there, again all bizarre.
Snootier = shooter
Thank you.
I sent her an email yesterday after the shooting, but have not heard back from her.
She is politically involved in Democratic issues, and it would not be unusual for her to have showed up at the meeting. So far only those who died have been identified by name, not those who were only wounded. So I’m not happy about that situation.
I think she is a regular volunteer on tucson community radio. I called station KXCI. They said they would have likely heard if somebody/volunteer was involved and have not heard anything like that. Not sure if I have the station right though.
She says she volunteers at KXCI on her linkedin page, so that’s the right station.
A longtime friend of Jared Lee Loughner, the suspect in custody following the murder of six people in an apparent assassination attempt on Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, said there was a mysterious, significant change in him a year before the shooting.
When she heard news reports of Loughner’s arrest in connection with the deadly attack, she said, “I was shocked, but I believed it was him.”
According to court documents released today, authorities discovered a safe in Loughner’s home with a thank you letter from Giffords for attending a Congress on Your Corner event in 2007 — the same kind of event Loughner allegedly assaulted Saturday. Another envelope said “I planned ahead,” “My assassination” and “Giffords” and bore what appears to be Loughner’s signature, the documents said.
Shan said she became friends with Loughner the day the two graduated from high school and also had class together at Pima Community College in 2007. She said the two would hang out often after class but lost touch after the semester ended until they reconnected in the summer of 2010 when, Shan said, Loughner acted radically different.
“I don’t know might have caused him to change, but from the way he was talking to me [online]… you can see. It was just questions and questions and random, weird questions that didn’t go together,” she said. “He wanted to know everything… He would just trip out.
“I don’t know why it didn’t jump out at me, like, ‘Hey, something’s wrong.”
Shan last spoke to Loughner in October, after he was suspended and dropped out of school and before he purchased a semi-automatic handgun from a gunshop in Tucson. But she said while Loughner was “anti-government,” he was never violent and never mentioned plans to buy a gun.
When he was suspended from Pima Community College, the school sent a letter to Loughner’s parents stating that if Loughner wished to return to the school, he would have to “obtain a mental health clearance indicating, in the opinion of a mental health professional, his presence at the College does not present a danger to himself or others,” the school said in a statement.
The school said Loughner had as many as five run-ins with campus police for “classroom and library disruptions,” and was suspended after college police discovered a YouTube video apparently created by Loughner in which he claimed the college is “illegal.” Rather than return to school, Loughner dropped out, the statement said.
One Pima Community College student, who had a poetry class with Loughner later in his college career, said he would often act “wildly inappropriate.”
“One day [Loughner] started making comments about terrorism and laughing about killing the baby,” classmate Don Coorough told ABC News, referring to a discussion about abortions. “The rest of us were looking at him in shock … I thought this young man was troubled.”
Another classmate, Lydian Ali, recalled the incident as well.
“A girl had written a poem about an abortion. It was very emotional and she was teary eyed and he said something about strapping a bomb to the fetus and making a baby bomber,” Ali said.
Prima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, who only identified the shooter as a 22-year-old white male, said the evidence online and information they’ve received from two schools that Loughner attended led him to believe the gunman was “unstable.”
“There’s reason to believe that this individual may have a mental issue,” Dupnik told reporters today. “I’m not a psychiatrist so I have no reason to believe the person was insane. Was he unstable? I would agree with that.”
Leave it to psycopaths like KRUGMAN to try to leave this on a right-wing doorstep. Unstable slacker from Poetry class goes off deep end - liberals see Tea Party boogeyman.
Good riddance, Sentence Terminator…
No Legal Recourse to Governor’s Actions
Posted: Sunday, January 9, 2011 3:25 pm
by Will Carless
Former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s last-minute order to commute the prison sentence of convicted felon Esteban Nuñez was met with angry fatalism by commentators and voters around the state.
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The economics profession has come a long way since the days when Alan Greenspan abolished the system of regulations which prevented bankers from legally stealing from the rest of us.
Most oddly, Ben Bernanke, the economist most responsible for U.S. bank regulation, was not quoted anywhere in this article.
* U.S. NEWS
* JANUARY 9, 2011, 9:13 P.M. ET
More Bank Reforms Needed, Economists Say
By MARK WHITEHOUSE
DENVER—Global financial reforms that have drawn howls from bankers aren’t nearly enough to avert another disaster, said academic economists gathered here for the annual meeting of the American Economic Association.
In recent months, regulators around the world have taken steps toward ensuring banks are able to weather tough times. New international rules will require big global banks to hold more equity to protect their depositors and other creditors. In the U.S., lawmakers have adopted measures intended to rein in risk at big banks and keep closer tabs on potential threats throughout the financial system.
Over the past few days, though, economists here offered a litany of reasons why the reforms fall short. Among their concerns: The new capital requirements aren’t tough or simple enough, there is too much uncertainty about how governments will deal with distress at the biggest lenders, and little has been done to prevent the kind of crisis that could occur if trouble broke out at many smaller institutions, such as hedge funds.
“I just don’t think we’re doing what we need to do,” said Anat Admati, a finance professor at Stanford University. “We’ve allowed bankers to confuse us into keeping things pretty much the same.”
Bank-capital levels are one of the economists’ primary concerns. Bankers have lamented new requirements that the largest global institutions hold common equity equal to at least 7% of their assets, compared with current standards of as little as 2%, saying the rules will stunt economic growth by increasing the cost of lending.
Ms. Admati and other economists, though, see no good reason why banks can’t have equity levels as high as 50%, arguing that the benefits of a stronger system far outweigh any costs.
Banks prefer taking on debt to raising equity, economists say, largely because governments have regularly stepped in to rescue debt holders in times of crisis. That has made borrowing unnaturally cheap—a perverse incentive that would fade if banks had enough equity to make bailouts unnecessary.
“The balance of argumentation leans in the direction of asking not why we should have more capital but why we don’t,” said Andrew Haldane, executive director for financial stability at the Bank of England.
John Cochrane, a professor at the University of Chicago who also consults for hedge funds, said new rules in the U.S. aggravate the problem by providing authorities with too much discretion in deciding whether to save big banks that get into trouble.
“The incentive for the banks is to be as big, as systemically dangerous as possible” so the government will have no choice but to bail them out, he said.
The U.S. reforms also didn’t extend to giant government-controlled mortgage firms Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which many economists say present a threat by taking on massive obligations and encouraging American homeowners to do the same. Both rank among the largest financial institutions in the world.
“Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should be euthanized as soon as possible,” said Simon Johnson of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. “These are very dangerous institutions.”
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* ECONOMY
* JANUARY 10, 2011
Hotel Mirrors Detroit’s Woes
As Auto Industry Recovers, Shuttered ‘Pontch’ Underscores City’s Long Road Ahead
By JEFF BENNETT
DETROIT—The auto show that begins this week gives Detroit the chance to show off a hometown industry on the mend and a downtown flush with upscale hotel rooms.
Fully renovated in 2007 then shuttered in 2009, the steel-and-glass former Hotel Pontchartrain stands across the street from the Cobo Center convention hall as a conspicuous symbol of Detroit’s stunted redevelopment efforts.
But many conventioneers’ image of Detroit may be shaped by the dark and vacant former Hotel Pontchartrain, directly across from the Cobo Center convention hall. Fully renovated in 2007 then shuttered in 2009, the steel-and-glass hotel stands as a conspicuous symbol of Detroit’s stunted redevelopment efforts.
For 18 months, the hotel known as “the Pontch” has been in limbo. A 2009 bankruptcy filing staved off a bank foreclosure, just as the hotel’s lender itself went into receivership. Since then, its owner, Shubh Hotels LLC of Boca Raton, Fla., has been battling a court-appointed receiver over unpaid utility bills and security bills, which were only sorted out earlier this week. A white piece of paper with the words “Temporarily Closed Due to Repairs” is taped on the windows near the entrance of its two lobbies.
On Tuesday, Shubh will ask a U.S. Bankruptcy Court judge in Florida for permission to borrow up to $5 million to make repairs on the 357-room hotel and reopen it as soon as March, said Susan Lasky, Shubh’s attorney. “They had hoped to be open in time for the auto show but it didn’t work out,” she said. If the judge denies that request, the property will likely be foreclosed on, making a sale possible.
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