The Housing Bubble

My husband was a grad school TA for engineering humanities at Michigan. His mission was to teach guys (back then there were few women in engineering) how to read critically and write. They covered varied literature, art and film. Worthwhile material for anybody. Most of them felt that it was one of their hardest classes. Doesn’t hurt to expand a young person’s horizons.

My favorite classes at Michigan were in art history. I can’t draw, but I love paintings and sculpture. I learned a lot and whenever I take a vacation I visit art museums. Those classes I took have enhanced my enjoyment of art for nearly 40 years.

When I was doing chemo and radation last fall I signed up for an online jazz piano class at CC. It was great. Only had to go in for a 5-minute performance quiz each week - my husband drove me when I was sickest. I’m taking the second semester now. A wonderful contrast to seeing patients and doing surgery. And expanding this older person’s horizons.

+1, Oxide

Also, when I was in engineering school, they came up with a good idea, which was to use those humanities courses to ensure that the students had decent writing skills, which are necessary to many careers in science and engineering.

My husband was a grad school TA for engineering humanities at Michigan. His mission was to teach guys (back then there were few women in engineering) how to read critically and write. They covered varied literature, art and film. Worthwhile material for anybody. Most of them felt that it was one of their hardest classes. Doesn’t hurt to expand a young person’s horizons.

I remember those engineering humanities classes. My U-M engineering classmates complained bitterly about them. After all, those guys (and, yes, most of them were guys back then) wanted to study all engineering! all the time!

What made me envious was that the EH classes were much better than what we were offered in LS&A (the liberal arts part of the U-M).

“use those humanities courses to ensure that the students had decent writing skills”
13 years of public schools weren’t sufficient to teach decent writing skills? Sad indeed.
Look I am not saying to exclude scientists from those classes, it should be a personal choice. Personally I would prefer not to suffer through the agony of having to take another writing or scultpture class and be charged an exorbitant amount of $$ for it.
As for “isolating” students or geeking out, that’s a personal choice as well. I had plenty of personal interaction while delivering pizzas or at college parties.
Now if you have a rich daddy footing the bill it might be pleasant to spend some extra time in college. If you have to work odd jobs to pay your own way not so much.

As for “isolating” students or geeking out, that’s a personal choice as well. I had plenty of personal interaction while delivering pizzas or at college parties.

Here’s what I think and I have both hard science and liberal arts degrees and have had extensive contact with both types of fine people. And I am speaking of course in gross generalities and I do respect both groups equally.

A liberal arts degree, although of not much valued these days, does give one a broader perspective of the big world than does a hard science or technical degree.

Many scientist types, bean counters and engineers seem to be missing something when it comes to understanding how the human condition plays roles in cause and effect. Many times they come to conclusions that pay no heed to history, context or human behavior which is a mistake because human behavior, society, politics and even economics cannot be boiled down to math and science alone.

On the other hand, many liberal arts people lack important math skills and the ability to analyze and think problems through in a scientific manner.

But hey, no one’s perfect.

grad school TA for engineering humanities’

they should teach Chinese to engineering students so they can speak to their boss

“It depends on the school and the major”

Exactly. I don’t see how transferring from CC for the last two years works if you’re in CS, engineering, even premed, where you have to hit the ground running taking the right courses from freshman year (after taking the right courses in HS), or else you can’t take the next year’s required courses. eg chemistry to organic chem, CS fundamentals to machine language or whatever they’re doing nowadays.

Instead, what I see is people making up all the coursework they blew off in HS then starting as freshmen at the 4-yr college. Or, majoring in liberal arts where the ordering of classes doesn’t matter a much.

Many scientist types, bean counters and engineers seem to be missing something when it comes to understanding how the human condition plays roles in cause and effect.”

True none of my co-workers could understand in 2005 that we were on the verge of a housing bubble bust

And they are very smart in math as most electrical Engineers are. The Chinese ones seemed most fooled by the housing run-up and speculated like crazy. Good thing they make alot of money.

To answer Montana, premed requires a year of calculus, a year of chemistry, a year of organic chemistry, a year of physics, and a host of biology classes. You can get all of this in two years of community college. Seriously.

“…..engineers seem to be missing something when it comes to understanding how the human condition plays roles….”

Poster on the wall in the prototype/experimental hangar at (at least) one of the Wichita bizjet OEM.

“There comes a time when it is necessary to kill the engineers, and start production”

“There comes a time when it is necessary to kill the engineers, and start production”

Or, as my mother would say to my father when he was thinking of all sorts of complications to any sort of project around the house: Would you stop engineering it to death and just do it?

A young defense engineering friend in Lancaster, CA saw the Germans on the television chipping away the concrete at the Brandenburg gates; it didn’t register. His older cohorts quickly accessed the market value of their homes, knocked off 15-20%, and put them on the market–sold! Within months defense funding was slashed, jobs were lost by the thousands, and my friend was stuck for twelve years while the fannie and freddie homes were sold to HUD for section 8 families, and the area’s crime exploded. Said friend is much wiser and less trusting these days.

Within months defense funding was slashed, jobs were lost by the thousands, and my friend was stuck for twelve years while the fannie and freddie homes were sold to HUD for section 8 families, and the area’s crime exploded. Said friend is much wiser and less trusting these days.

Which is why studying history and economics is very important. And you don’t have to do this in school — all you need is a library card.

To answer Montana, premed requires a year of calculus

Ugg….brings back painful memories. I was a TA in the math department at UC San Diego back in the 1970’s. The biggest headache was teaching calculus sessions to a bunch of mostly pre-meds. They always came to me with the sob story of “I’ve got to get an A in calculus to get into medical school!!!!”

Some guys physically threatened me. Then there was the “girl with the unbuttoning blouse” who came by office hours. She was wearing one of those blouses with more than a dozen buttons down the front. After the other students had left, every time I turned around from the chalkboard she had yet another button unbuttoned. Oy Veh.

“You can get all of this in two years of community college. ”

yes I don’t know why I brought up those, since those are basic requirements for a lot of majors..but are you going to get engineering or pharmacy core classes in the typical city college? Of course where I am, the course offerings are pretty limited and change quickly if there is not enough demand or students just can’t cut it.

It just seemed to me that in any school, it is a lot easier to put together a lib arts schedule than a hard science major, and even harder when transferring.

“every time I turned around from the chalkboard she had yet another button unbuttoned”

Note to self: Get job teaching calculus to pre-med students.

Toughest course for me was physical chemistry. All the others were a breeze.

I think you meant to say “don’t need a HS diploma to attend a JC”.

My ghetto HS in San Jose didn’t offer AP calculus, so I had to take calculus at night at the local JC during my HS senior year. It might be good to consider doing away with AP classes and have the students just take them at the local JC.

What would be the benefit of that? In any case, most high school students can take AP classes for college credit (English 1, History 1, etc) or take classes accredited by the college while in high school.

Dropping out of high school and getting a GED seems like a good way to shoot yourself in the foot for any scholarships you might be eligible for. Not only that, you’d be younger than most of the people in JuCo, and have very little in common with them, which for most people is not a good recipe for success.

I believe that a number of states don’t allow you to take the GED before your regular high school class would graduate. In other words, if you want to have a high school diploma early, you have to graduate from your actual high school early by earning enough credits to qualify for one. Taking 6 major subjects a year and maybe a class or two in summer school should do it.

In my high school, the kids who wanted to graduate early had to double up in English and gym since MA required 4 years of both. They got the rest of their credits by doubling up in math (geometry and algebra II was the easiest combination, algebra II and trig/pre-calc was a little harder but doable) and science. If you were engineering inclined, some of the college bound kids took mechanical drawing as a 5 day a week class, though it was not considered a pre-college class and brought down your class rank.

The average instructor at a JC may be better qualified than a HS teacher for such subjects. And the HS students will benefit from the more mature attitude of the JC students.

Nowadays high schools are stressed to teach the dummies, so any high-achievers get short-shrift there.

I’m hearing that the AP courses in high school are getting a bit dumbed down, and graduates are arriving at college still unable to cope with college level math, for example. Apparently parent demand for AP due to competition and anxiety does not guarantee true college-level content.

CC’s aren’t much of a bargain in the Centennial state. Its about 4K per year. Cheaper than CU or CSU but its not $500 per semester.

I know you guys really care about bristol’s new pad in az:

My prediction: She won’t be there very long. Why? Because the place will attract curiosity seekers like nobody’s business. That’s bound to go over like a rock with the neighbors.

Then there’s the security risk aspect. This place is a lot less secure than, say, the estate from which the Lindbergh baby was kidnapped. (That estate was in a remote area and a good distance from the street. It shouldn’t have been too difficult to spot an intruder.)

the place will attract curiosity seekers ??

Curious to see what ??

“Curious to see what ??”

Her ugly, generic, stucco snout-house.

He complained about his time in community college, saying: “I’m paying cash money to take the same classes I could have taken FOR FREE in high school.”

Sounds like he’s one of those who really did get an education at the CC.

I took calculus and spherical trig in my senior
year because that’s all that was offered.

I have come to believe that about 60% of the kids who cycle through the college probably shouldn’t be there and probably don’t really want to be there. The problem is there really isn’t anywhere else for them to be, so the second tier colleges and universities become warehouses.

The non-traditional students, typically working adults, are a different matter entirely. They are generally highly motivated and eager to learn even when the subject matter is difficult.

Agreed on both points, Spokaneman.

Here in Tucson, I’ve met a number of University of Arizona students who, truth be told, would rather be doing something else. But they were told that they should go to college, so here they are.

OTOH, the older, non-traditional students just absolutely blow the doors off the UA. Especially the military vets. They’re that good. And motivated.

My daughter attends Gonzaga. You wouldn’t be instructing there, would you?

Nope.

He said that he taught at public university. Isn’t Gonzaga a Catholic school?

Preach it on the second chances, RE!

Case in point from mine own high school days: I had an art classmate who was a real goofball. To the point where we wondered what in the Sam Hill he was even doing in the art program.

Well, he went off to one of PA’s state colleges, Kutztown. That was known as the artsy school for artsy artists. More than a few of us wondered what he would be doing there.

Becoming a very serious painter was the answer. He’s been a professional artist for something like 25 years, and I could go on and on.

Methinks that getting out of high school and into the adult world, starting with college, forced him to buckle down and get serious. That and marrying another one of my classmates. Let’s just say that the goofball act wouldn’t get very far with her.

“This discussion reminds me of how the US is the land of second chances. My Japanese cousins’ path in life was determined by their performance on college entrance exams.”

There is even a special word for those who fail to pass the exams and cram to try again next year: “ronin”.

There was a very popular manga/anime series about that: Love Hina.

I know a couple single moms who got pretty big grants and dropped their classes and kept the money.

A long time ago I bought a 1966 Gibson ES-335 with part of my grant money. (My friend thought it was hilarious) But I did finish school.

I’m not sure I’d put faith in any claims from a website selling penny stock tips.

99 weeks (of UI) and nothing to show for it
—————————————————————-
One could also make that case against a lot of colleges.

do you not have to “prove” you are looking for a job anymore?

I know of 4 people who are late into their 99 weeks of unemployment and not one of them is making any effort whatsover to find any type of work.

one basically lives in a shack “down by the river” and smokes pot and drinks beer.

I know of 4 people who are late into their 99 weeks of unemployment and not one of them is making any effort whatsover to find any type of work.

I’ve heard it said that a lot of the long-term unemployed used to work somewhere in the REIC. And, unless they were tradespeople, they have no salable skills.

You don’t have to prove you are actually looking for work. You have to affirm that you are by checking a box on the on-line for that you use to report that you are still unemployed.

If you want to require people to “prove” they are really looking for work, you will have to hire someone for the unemployed people to report to who will listen to and review the proof and then sometimes tell that person that they don’t qualify for unemployment for the last week or two because they didn’t try hard enough. How many folks are up for funding that little project?

isn’t that how it worked in Seinfeld?

And some Dem’s in Congress are already looking for ways to extend the 99 week limit.

You don’t have to prove you are actually looking for work. You have to affirm that you are by checking a box on the on-line for that you use to report that you are still unemployed.

Theoretically there are random audits - at least that’s what the State of Texas led me to believe, but I never actually got audited.

Which is good, as I accidentally deleted my electronic job-searching log. Oops

“do you not have to “prove” you are looking for a job anymore?”

Apparently not. Last time I collected, I had to put down three places I’d tried, with contact info, and I assumed someone could check on me. But that was in the 1970s.

Here in WA state, both times I got laid off (2002, 2008) and was on unemployment, I did get audited once during each of my two 6-month-long periods on UI. I had to show contact information for at least three potential places of employment per week, and I believe that these requirements are still in place.

The STUPID thing is, WA state unemployment department only communicates with you via snail mail, and I have a private mailbox that I sometimes only check once per week. I missed my in-office audit appointment because of this and had to forfeit that week’s benefits. I even appealed this to a state administrative judge and was denied.

Why they couldn’t send an email, text message, or a plain-ol’ automated phone message to let you know that you need to come in is beyond me.

Harvard Law.

+5 REhobbyist!

Thanks a lot folks. I will apply and hopefully I can get in using affirmative action.

Or undergrad at Columbia.

I will apply and hopefully I can get in using affirmative action.

What will help you stay in?

well, I dunno. I’m not really that smart but I am an excellent teleprompter reader. But if I did get in I would copy wall streets modus operandi of BS and greed and DC’s modus operandi of smoke and mirrors.

ROTF, LMAO

Everybody’s missing the point.

-All the jobs that are left in the US require a college degree.

-All the votech jobs are being outsourced. The ones that haven’t don’t pay $hit.

That’s why you have people attending college, instead of going to votech.

“-All the votech jobs are being outsourced. The ones that haven’t don’t pay $hit.”

Young girls pay up to $10,000 (or more) to learn how to cut and dye hair and end up working at chain hair salons for $10/hr (or even less).

Nice huh?

Young girls pay up to $10,000 (or more) to learn how to cut and dye hair and end up working at chain hair salons for $10/hr (or even less).

There’s a meritocracy in this field, just like any other.

Ever noticed how, in every town, there is *the* salon? As in, you’d better be good if you even want to be considered for admission to their staff. (Yes, this comment sounds like I’m describing getting into an elite college. And that’s my intention, 100%.)

Any-hoo, the good people are never, ever hurting for work. But the trick is that you have to be good, and that means keeping up with trends in the field, practicing your skills, learning from the top pros, etc.

Graphic Design. And he found a job! Thirty years ago he would have probably majored in fine arts. Now there are lots of opportunities for designers. Who knew?

Now there are lots of opportunities for designers. Who knew?

Indeed there are. What kind of design does he do?

Reason for my question: I’m always looking for good subcontractors. And, if he’s related to REHobbyist, I *know* he has a work ethic.

I guess in my mind wages were the numerator and housing prices the denominator…not sure why. I guess I like it when a singularity is a good thing rather than a bad thing.

“I guess I like it when a singularity is a good thing rather than a bad thing.”

Not only that, but as any good RealtWhore will tell you, housing prices will never go to zero in Upper East Flyoverville, because everyone wants to live there. (Well, maybe not Detroit, but…)

“It took 15 years for house prices to stop falling.”

Do others find it odd how the MSM continually gives the serial bottom callers brigade a pass on examples of long periods of housing price declines, such as the one in Texas you reference, or the current example from Japan (1990-2011 and counting)?
What is so frightening about empirical evidence that so many self-proclaimed ‘experts’ feel comfortable ignoring it?

Funding and media attention?

Housing in Texas keep rising all through the 1980s and only collapsed from the S&L disaster, the first effect of which were felt here before the rest of the country.

It took approx 4 years for the market to bottom and another 2 before prices started rising again.

If you could afford to buy a house around 1993-5, you would have been able to double your money by 1999. By 2005, you could triple it. You could quadruple your money IN ONE YEAR by doing a teardown and then building townhouses on the same lot.

Buy for 100K, sell for almost half million one year later. Do four of those and never have to work a day job again.

I would say in some areas we are only into our 4th or 5th year of falling prices. The Bay Area for example.

In Colorado out in the distant bubble burbs we’re 6 years into it, but in the middle of Boulder we’re only one year into it…if that. It was “different here” for a LONG time.

No

I’m leaning to your interpretation, though I find the statement poorly worded.

Speaking of wording, what kind of shoots and leaves were you eating? I’m partial to Romaine myself.

I wasn’t referring to ‘eating shoots and leaves,’ but rather to what pandas normally do at a cafe: They eat the sandwich they ordered, fire a couple of shots into the air, then leave the building (”large animal that eats, shoots and leaves”).

Poorly worded??

(sorry, just ribbin’ ya…you are correct. That comma saved your grammatic patootie. )

Eats Chutes & Ladders

Just for the record, the original joke involved a panda in a bordello….

I caused quite a scene in the bank when I marched across the hush-hush bank right up to the loan officer screaming “WHERE’S MY SEVEN PERCENT? I WANT MY SEVEN PERCENT!”

And here we are all these years later…a whole group of “screaming seven-percenters” :-).

Great story Oxy!!!!

I almost peed in my dress LOL, oxide.

Did you and your dad get told not to come back? LOL

I remember being the same way when I found out that my insurance money wouldn’t be refunded if I never made a claim and canceled or were canceled because of a missed payment.

I’m still that way. I HATE paying for something and getting nothing in return. Most people would call that theft.

ecofeco
OTOH if the premiums were so darn high, having insurance takes care of the oh chit moments. I understand your position, but I’ve had those moments, and glad I had insurance.

I’ve wondered what would happen if my ins. co. lost a boat of money in Derivatives. Would I see my claim paid?

Only twice in my life have I had to make an insurance claim, but there were more times when I didn’t have insurance and needed it, but didn’t have the money.

I realize I’m the exception and not the rule and I’m glad I had insurance for those 2 times, but I would dearly love to have those THOUSANDS of dollars back in my pocket right now from the other times I didn’t make a claim.

Because I don’t have insurance again and it would be cheaper to pay out of pocket for what I need than to pay the insurance premiums.

I would dearly love to have those THOUSANDS of dollars back in my pocket right now from the other times I didn’t make a claim.

You’re always welcome to self-insure. In that case you would have those thousands of dollars.

Just don’t go looking for anyone to cover you if you can’t cover your own medical/auto/whatever bills.

I’ve been “self insured” for over a decade.. as in, can’t afford ANY insurance, thank you very much.

And after I complained, they DID properly credit it as an additional principal payment.

I like money but sometimes I don’t pay much attention to it like when I paid off my student loans.

My monthly payment was $150 but I sent in about $300 a month until one day it was paid off. But what was happening? Was the extra coming off the principal?

Maybe I should have done it differently but hey, it’s done.

Yesterday someone posted an article about how people were buying with cash as a sign that investors were scooping up real estate.

Nope

People can’t earn anything on safe investments and they figure I’ll just pay off my loan or buy this house for cash. If you’re a rich retired investor this may give you more confort than investing in the market or treasuries even if you are early. You’ve locked down living expenses.

“You’ve locked down living expenses.”
measton, you’ve got that right.

In 2010 our house money earned $243- dollars in interest. (That makes me sick.) A mortgage is 5%. (FICO’s 825)

If we pay what my target is, the Property Taxes will be $370/mo (the first year) and will probably stay there or go down as home prices decline.

We’re a no loan purchase. One thing I’ve learned from older family members, is to have a house paid off by your 65th B-Day.

That’s a good way to do it, Awaiting, but not everyone has that choice.

ecofeco
So true. We sold 2 homes already in our lifetime, and socked it away during this bubble, which has taken years of life enjoyment from us. We rent a dump, drive old cars, and live quite frugal, and have been hammered by this economy and some other issues. Life hasn’t been a cake walk, but hey, we’re tough.

I haven’t had a home mortgage in a long time, but I thought I read somewhere that banks were starting to put prepayment or yield maintenance penalties into home mortgages similar to what you would find in a commercial loan. Is this true? That would be a real bummer to pay the loan off early and get hit with a penalty.

If they are, then you would have to be an idiot to sign and not shop around more.

Our niece is a welfare queen. She’s pretty, educated, and loves her surrogate husband, our govt’s monthly check. Children without marriage, is her modus operandi.

Our niece is a welfare queen.

And it sounds like you try very hard to be polite when you’re around her. Not that such a thing is easy.

Sort of like how I have to bite my tongue when dealing with my REIC-ster relatives.

IMHO crowd insanity is addictive for those people who have a weak identity. These are the people who subvert their personal egos to the collective ego of the herd.

They are lemmings.

They are lemmings religious.

Oh, and here I thought they were NFL fans.

Hey, nycdj, you should add this to your act:

” in which staged footage was shown with lemmings jumping into certain death after faked scenes of mass migration… they did not jump off the cliff, but were in fact launched off the cliff using a turntable.”

Ooooo, Davis! One of my favorite bicycling cities!

That it is! But some take their bikes out on the county roads that connect Davis with Woodland. The “bike lane” on these CRs is about two inches wide. Speed limit 55, and alot of trucks. It’s do-able if the trucks are only going one direction. Of course, often they aren’t. Very dangerous I’d think, but no fatalities that I’m aware of.

Hey, neighbor Pete. I live in Sac.

But some take their bikes out on the county roads that connect Davis with Woodland. The “bike lane” on these CRs is about two inches wide.

Yeah, I know.

When I left Davis (in 1981), I headed over to Vacaville. And darn if it didn’t start raining. As in, really coming down!

At one point, I was riding through a low spot of road, and it was completely covered with water. I must have hit the CA equivalent of a lunar crater. The ultimate pothole. Almost capsized my bicycle.

“Hey, neighbor Pete. I live in Sac.”

Wow, small world. I actually just moved from Davis to Woodland. My wife works in Sac, so we pondered moving out there. Some really affordable homes, it was tempting. Interesting differences between Woodland and Davis. Only 8 miles from each other and the $400,000 home in Davis is under $200,000 in Woodland.

I’m a Sac native and proud UC Davis alumni, but live in the other half of California now.

The town was anti-student back then, but I don’t know what it is like now. As students we used to joke that UC Davis could just have easily been UC Dixon.

Here in the OC, the market has definitely turned south since summer. New home developments are not sold out and they have started offering commissions to brokers again. Saw this movie in 2007. I think the ending will be similar but don’t think it will be as gory. Trying to hold out a little longer to see if the trend will continue before buying a house.

“The town was anti-student back then, but I don’t know what it is like now. As students we used to joke that UC Davis could just have easily been UC Dixon.”

That’s funny. Actually, I would call it pro-student today, if you don’t include rent prices. There are 30,000 students here now (if you include grad students), and so much of the regular population is tied in some way to the university. No animosity in either direction. Much of the town is opposed to the University’s plans to build a massive housing complex off of hwy 113, that’s about it.

Wasn’t the plan for most CA homeowners on the coast? Wasn’t the plan to sell the house when they reached retirement and move to one of the neighboring states?

Wasn’t the plan to sell the house when they reached retirement and move to one of the neighboring states?

Yeah, this one. And we were supposed to get all warm and fuzzy when they came here, started foo-foo businesses funded by their CA home equity, and proclaimed that the universe would take care of them.

They liked to move here and warn us that Cali was crazy, and it would be a shame to ruin this place like that.

Then stop posting it. It’s really that simple.

that was funny

Elvis was a truck driver before he became famous.

“Elvis was a truck driver before he became famous.”

I think that he drove the “uncool” kind of truck, a delivery van. Still, I could see him driving one of those 4 door, 400HP, 6000 lb “commutter” vehicles that get 12 mpg.

Putting on a sweater when it’s cold is so lame!

Well, I must be crippled, because I just donned my second sweater of the morning.

Putting on a sweater when it’s cold is so lame!

I just turned the AC off, turned on the fan and took off my socks.

I forgot about the AC. The one day last summer that I wanted to use it, the landlords happened to be around. I mentioned that I was thinking about turning it on and the woman looked at me like I had two heads and said, “There’s no AC.” She didn’t say “idiot”, but I heard it. No AC for us (by design)!

MrBubble

Jimmy Carter will look like a prophet after Saudi Oil production collapses. People will look back and remember Reagan removing solar panels on the tax payer dime just to make a statement that he didn’t believe in alternative energy or energy conservation.

Sorry measton, I don’t think they will. They’ll just think of Carter asking us to sacrifice by putting on a gay sweater, and Reagan allowing us to bully people on the highway in an SUV while keeping the kiddies quiet with a DVD player.

People will look back and remember Reagan removing solar panels on the tax payer dime just to make a statement that he didn’t believe in alternative energy or energy conservation.

Yes, there was that aspect of the story.

However, those panels were originally installed to provide hot water for the White House kitchen. And the kitchen staff complained because they didn’t work very well.

…and it would of cost the taxpayers alot more to put in ones that did work.

ho hum…round and round we go.

The time for leadership on that issue was just after September 11th. I was aching for it to happen at the time. Then we were told to go shopping. My heart died a little that day.

Me and mine too.

The time for leadership on that issue was just after September 11th. I was aching for it to happen at the time. Then we were told to go shopping.

Not only were we told to go shopping, we were also told to take a trip! On a plane!

Contrast that with FDR’s “Call to Sacrifice” speech.

“Not only were we told to go shopping, we were also told to take a trip! On a plane!”

Go to Disneyworld! IIRC dubya literally said that.

After 911, a friend of mine did look into going to Disneyworld, thinking she could get a price break, but nope, Uncle Roy was as greedy as ever. She didn’t go.

“After 911, a friend of mine did look into going to Disneyworld, thinking she could get a price break, but nope, Uncle Roy was as greedy as ever. She didn’t go.”

Wasn’t that when they introduced the “dine for free” plan? It has expanded quite a bit now and from what I have heard its offered for over half the calendar year.

Of course better deals are found “off property”.

Me too, Polly. I knew then something was very, very wrong with our government.

**********************
“The time for leadership on that issue was just after September 11th. I was aching for it to happen at the time. Then we were told to go shopping. My heart died a little that day.”

“….but in Brazil.”

That’s something I’ve long respected about Brazil. They managed to sustain some longer-term thinking on energy independence, in an era of increasingly short-term thinking.

Sugar cane ethanol! Efficient where corn isn’t. Can we grow sugar cane in mainland USA?

Can ethanol be made cost effectively from sugar beets?

We used to grow a lot sugar cane here. It’s just that it was cheaper to farm it (grow, harvest, process) somewhere else.

“Overseas” somewhere else.

I think switchgrass is now being touted as the best source of biofuel. It’s native, grows on marginal land, and doesn’t need a lot of water and fertilizer. Many claim hemp is still superior, but of course that opens another can of worms.

+1

I make a point of finding the non plastic crap. It can be hard though. If you want a non plastic vacuum cleaner you might have to buy a Kirby or an Electrolux.

“non plastic vacuum cleaner you might have to buy a Kirby or an Electrolux”

Had my first Old School moment last weekend while purchasing a vacuum on the weekend (Olive Garden…if there’s time). I was promised that our new German vacuum will be the one used the clean the room in which we are waked when we both snuff it. The Miele Titan. What’s up, sucka?

MrBubble

PS: It was expensive, but we went the “buy quality once” route, and it got the best reviews for a cannister style. With the HEPA filter, it can also be used as an air purifier for the baby room, if desired. Don’t like have to throw away bags, but our cheaper bagless vacuum wouldn’t clean even though I washed and scrubbed the filter with a toothbrush regularly and the Dyson was out of our price range.

Plastic has been indicated as a pseudo estrogen, and a cause of high estrogen levels in women, leading to a Breast Cancer Diagnosis. I tossed out my plastic kitchen stuff and replaced it with glass. Besides, glass is more eloquent.

Besides, glass is more eloquent.

Uh-oh! Talking glass!

I wanted to buy some baby socks the other day. $5.99 for four pairs at Marshall’s. Problem was they were in a big plastic box display with little plastic feet to fill them out. It looked cute, but I couldn’t believe such a waste of plastic for four pairs of baby socks.

Here’s a tip: Don’t add any bright lighting inside your cabinets, or you’ll be sad at how poorly your dishwasher works when you look at your glass dishes.

Paper packaging was one of the main causes of nearly destroying our national forests.

Most of our wood now comes from Canada, where they are also now seeing unsustainable levels of logging.

I’m no tree hugger, but the numbers don’t lie. The human race is depleting its resources.

Fresh water. Fish. Wood. Arable land. Oil. All are in critical trouble.

Paper packaging was one of the main causes of nearly destroying our national forests.

That’s only an issue if the fedgov sells logging rights to those lands.

That problem is easily solved - don’t log national forests, or have a good logging policy in place.

We now have good logging polices in place, but it put a lot of people out work in the NW.

But they were going to be out of work anyway AND the resources would have been gone for a century.

IIRC, we have approx 2 million acres in pine tree production farms in this country now, with the number increasing every year.

We now have good logging polices in place, but it put a lot of people out work in the NW.

I was amazed when I first moved up to the Seattle area and drove around the Olympic Peninsula. Seeing recently logged areas, and then others with signs saying they were last logged 30 years ago…It’s good they rotate and limit the scope of things, but still sad to be driving through national forest land and see a clean-cut parcel.

It is kind of cool seeing all the baby trees sticking up, though.

I guess its starting to finally sink in for some people: It’s raining knives!

‘it had to be satire’

IMO, it doesn’t matter if it was or not, but rather did it reflect the thinking back then. I literally would be asked by reporters what I thought of this blogs ‘rebuttal’ to the HBB. I had never even looked at it, so I could answer.

But as far as the numbers; remember what people were saying when coastal CA prices went to their peak; that these houses would be worth 10 times that in X number of years? When Miami condos planned for empty lots sold and re-sold up over $1000/sq ft? And the talk about ‘landed aristocracy’ versus ‘bitter renters’, that was common-place and was repeated in the media over and over.

Yes, the reporting and dialog a few years back was THAT insane. It’s a mania, there is no other way to describe it. Some places it’s peaked, in others it goes on. And we still have a part of the population, govt and media who want to keep that madness alive.

“IMO, it doesn’t matter if it was or not, but rather did it reflect the thinking back then.”

Absolutely. Which is why at first I thought it was for real.

“IMO, it doesn’t matter if it was or not, but rather did it reflect the thinking back then.”

True. These words on that blog summed up the times:
Financing is no problem. Habla espanol. Bad credit? No credit? Legally dead? No matter what you say he will say he can put you in a home. He has homes for all payment levels. No income needed.

You DO NOT jack around with astronauts.

So Loughner was a Tea Partier?

Yes, but not before a lot of the blogosphere did the “right-click and save image” thing.

Got to love Freedom of (Politically Correct) Speech.

Got to love Freedom of (Politically Correct) Speech.

Come on nickpapageorgio, Put your politics aside for a bit. I’m sure you don’t condone that kind of “free-speech”.

“Don’t just retreat, RELOAD” Then putting gun sights over districts. And moron, fascist ilk calling for “second amendment solutions” “We need to take out Harry Reid.”

Who admires that kind of “free speech” nickpapageorgio?

Do you? I don’t. But I think it makes some wack-jobs feel like real tough guys. You know, kind of gun toting, 90 IQ, corn pone, red-neck edgy. Nice huh?

People who like that stuff are not the norm in America.

Constitutional free speech does not and never did and never was meant to authorize treason or provoke violence.

You CANNOT make threats and claim “freedom of speech.” It was, is and always will be illegal. The only reason hate radio got a pass was because they were well connected.

Umm….Unless you are in elementary school, you do know that individuals are responsible for their own actions. Also, I get tired of pointing out the fact that the Tucson shooter was an anarchist leftist. You can cherry pick statements from left wing politicians containing far more venom and violent undertones…I guess they don’t count.

You are now at around ~$16+ for the week. Vs $10 for TV dinners? And it’s hot?

If you’re doing that comparison and taking it being hot into consideration, don’t forget to add in the cost of the microwave as well as the electricity (the latter is likely negligible, but still a consideration). Fridge/freezer is required for either.

Food storage and prep is moot and a wash.

Company microwave. Free. Refrigerator. Who doesn’t have one? Prep time? Longer for the sandwich.

Personally, there comes a point where it’s simply not cost effective to micro-account manage.

2? I can only eat one.

And while I LOVE lasagna, it’s not as nutritious.

Only one? They’re like 300 calories!

Our lasagna is a bit more nutritious since we add spinach and home-roasted red peppers.

Enough with the “I can eat cheap” bragging.

If my life depends on my cooking skills, I might as well put a bullet in my head right now, and bypass the slow death by food poisoning.

I hate cooking. The only reason I did it before was because it cost a lot less, when I had kids (and their teenage boyfriends) hanging around the house.

Now the girls are (mostly) out of the house, I work until 6-7pm most nights, and I don’t save much money by cooking at home.

Cooking (to me) is like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer. It feels so good when you stop.

But I wash my hair with beer.

the world wide interweb told me 53.1 percent of the voting age population showed up.

Oops! I stand corrected. I meant to say that less than half the eligible electorate voted for Reagan in 1984.

I can recall quite a bit of commentary over the (for the time) low voter turnout in the 1984 election. To the point that Gil- Scott Herron released a song called “B Movie.” It started with Gil saying, “The first thing I’d like to say is mandate, my @ss.”

“The Revolution Will Not Be Televised”

I loved “B Movie” as well. Really sticks it to the neocons.

“The Revolution Will Not Be Televised”

I loved “B Movie” as well. Really sticks it to the neocons.

I was working in a food co-op in Pittsburgh when that song came out. Everyone working in the store was expected to deejay a killer set of music during their shift. Competition to get on the turntable was fierce.

And let me tell you, “B Movie” was a real customer-pleaser.

That was 53.1% of eligible voters, not voting age population.

link?