The Housing Bubble

What was the movie where the turned Manhattan into a prison?

Escape From New York

….but who would want to help any of the residents escape?…..

Remember the “Irrational Expectations” speech? AG specifically said in there that asset inflation was something that they should worry about. Too bad they didn’t.

There is talk, and there is action.

‘The prevailing view held that an unemployment rate’s falling below 6 percent would cause inflation. Greenspan believed that the New Economy rendered that assumption moot. In 1995 and 1996 he persuaded his colleagues on the Federal Open Market Committee to leave rates low despite falling unemployment…The bull market roared through his December 1996 speech, in which he warned against “irrational exuberance.” Investors also took heart from Greenspan’s ability to serenely orchestrate bailouts when necessary…He acted as a market whisperer, uttering soothing words into investors’ ears.’

http://www.newsweek.com/2007/09/23/the-greenspan-gospel.html

Well, I don’t think we’ll have to worry about unemployment falling below 6% again anytime in this decade.

They knew - all the clowns in charge knew. The only alternative is that a bunch of relative amateurs (no disrespect intended) somehow figured this Bubble-mess out while nobody in charge saw it. No, they knew, but destroying this nation’s economy was too profitable a chance to pass up.

Absolutely.

Seriously. I don’t mind paying taxes so kids can get a decent breakfast & lunch. For some of them that’s the only good meals they’ll get. Paying taxes to bail out banks, on the other hand, pisses me off.

did you go to a school that had one of these programs? 90% of the kids getting the free meals shouldn’t be getting them.

a “poor” person can game the system just as easily as a billionaire fat cat bankster…it’s human nature.

incidently…i am 41 years old and i eat breakfast maybe once a month during the weekday…have been doing that since i was about eight years old.

Those new immigrants ain’t gonna lern English by demselves now is they?

“did you go to a school that had one of these programs? 90% of the kids getting the free meals shouldn’t be getting them.”

When I was briefly unemployed I looked into this for my kids. The requirements in Colorado were pretty stiff, and we most definitely did not qualify.

Could be upper middle class doesn’t want to pay for poor kids anymore, especially since poor folks have 5 or more kids and rich folks have 1 or 2.

Vote is comming up in CA to extend tax increases to pay for schools and if it doesn’t pass the consequenses are “dire” whatever that means.

Middle class , 85K, family of 4 is just hammered by the dicotomy of the new economy

A kid one of my daughters was dating had an alcoholic mom, and a druggie dad (who recently passed away due to an OD, at age 40)

Until he started hanging around at my place most nights, the only meals he got were school breakfast and lunch.

And for those of you who remember the good old days, when the local grannies ran the kitchens they had at each school, school lunches today are nothing to write home about.

He told me once that he thought his family was “normal”, until he started hanging around our place.

He told me once that he thought his family was “normal”, until he started hanging around our place.

Thanks for being a good person, X.

We need more of them.

It wasn’t until my daughters got into middle and high school that I found out how many fooked up people have kids out here in Flyover. (Note….I called them “people with kids”, not “parents”).

The problems caused by alcohol and drugs are bad enough that it makes me wonder if Saudi Arabia’s answer to the problem isn’t the correct one.

These kids are going to have a tough enough row to hoe, without adding the problems of a substandard education to go on top of it.

Add to that the total lack of people that they can look up to and respect at the local level. The amount of BS that is being fed these kids is mind boggling.

“out here in Flyover.”

Wait, I thought you lived in Miami? I’m confused? (Not stalking! Just trying to keep my geographical filters attached to the correct posters).

Eastern Kansas

The fact that people around here are as fooked up as everywhere else may have led to the confusion.

Funny how they can never find money for education or healthcare, but when the banks demand TRILLIONS of dollars in loans or guarantees, etc., that money literally appears overnight, with hardly any public debate or anything. Why can’t we give that money to schools instead of banks?

That’s sad.

People feel strongly on education issues because we’re all invested in the system.

And also because, when it comes to the public education system, we’re ALL forced to pay for it.

I’m all for people who send kids to school having to pay for it. And then they can decide to have it run however they like - pay the teachers and the admins as much as they want.

But when they’re not the ones paying for it (or are subsidized), well, yeah, we’re all going to have an opinion, and are entitled to one.

“Our best-performing students come from public schools, by a substantial margin…”

Perhaps that is because most of the students come from public schools?

“….ALL forced to pay for it.”

So you are saying that you get NO benefit from living in a country with educated citizens?

I help pay for the Interstate highways in Wyoming, even though I’ve never been to Wyoming. That’s okay though, because I’m receiving a benefit from it, whether I recognize it or not.

Now, if you want to say that a lot of public money is pissed away for various reasons, you will get no argument from me there.

I help pay for the Interstate highways in Wyoming, even though I’ve never been to Wyoming.

I’ve been to WY. And it has very nice roads for such a sparsely populated state.

“Now, if you want to say that a lot of public money is pissed away for various reasons, you will get no argument from me there.”

that’s my point…but no one wants to talk about it.

And of all the money that is (at first glance) pizzed away by local governments, much of it is due to the “unfunded Federal mandates”, generated by BOTH political parties.

The problem is not the schools, it’s the students. There’s only so much the teachers can do. It does not take a genius to teach; in fact I think some of the better teachers were mentally only a few steps ahead of their students so they could relate easily.

The problem is not the schools, it’s the students.

Charles Murray’s book, Real Education: Four Simple Truths for Bringing America’s Schools Back to Reality, makes the following points:

1. Ability varies. (Classic case in point: Michael Jordan and baseball.)

2. Half the children are below average. (In other words, the real world isn’t Lake Wobegon.)

3. There are too many kids going to college. (And a lot of them don’t have the intellectual ability to handle college-level work.)

4. Our nation’s top students aren’t being challenged enough. (Which brings to mind that saying about Harvard: The toughest part is getting in.)

My ex-girlfriend used to teach at a hoi-polloi private school in Salt Lake city. Her background was PE and she was teaching math among other things. Now, she wasn’t a bad teacher and had great communication skills but her background was decidedly not oriented towards other areas.

So much for private schools having the best and most qualified students. And families were paying scads of money for the privilege, and they payed their teaches DIRT. And no bennies. Remember, this was considered one of the BEST private schools in that city.

Whoops meant best qualified teachers not students. I am low on blood sugar - time to eat lunch.

You are spot-on regarding the abysmal pay given to teachers at many private schools, despite the eye-popping tuition. My wife teaches in a public school but many of her friends are now teaching at private schools where the pay and benefits are marginal at best (forget about home ownership on that salary alone).

“Let me give you some insights from my experience as a college administrator. I work at a good private university.

Our best-performing students come from public schools, by a substantial margin. The next best come from private Catholic schools, then private non-religious, and then private other-religious.”

Sir, the only reason why you’re seeing this is that your “good private university” can cherry-pick smart public school kids from charter schools and the relative handful of solid public high schools in rich suburbs. I went to a Catholic high school because the public high school in my hometown was absolute garbage, and it was obvious that my friends who stayed in that public HS were not engaged in nearly as rigorous a program as what my Catholic HS was offering. (Often times, in fact, it seemed as if they essentially had no homework whatsoever - and these kids were carrying good GPAs.) I also spent about half my pre-tertiary education overall in public schools and let me tell ya - the difference is night and day (and this was in one of the “good” school districts in a “desirable” suburb).

If the public schooling was this weak in a “good” district, I absolutely shudder when I think of what must be going on in the “bad” ones. So yes, coming back to your original point - public schooling in this country certainly still is broken.

So we should fix the schools, not do away with them.

So you are saying that you get NO benefit from living in a country with educated citizens?

I’m not saying that. I’m saying that I have a right to speak up and try to change things. Not so much because I’m “invested”, but because I foot the bill.

Yes, arguably I benefit from living in a country with educated citizens. However, that doesn’t mean I feel I (or anyone else) should be compelled to pay for that education.

Just because something provides a benefit doesn’t mean the populace should be compelled to pay for it. I don’t understand why people can’t grasp that concept, realize there are multiple valid points of view, and then try to talk it out and meet somewhere in the center.

“at a hoi-polloi private school’

I think you mean hoity-toity, hoi polloi means ‘the common people’. (Pedantic Man strikes again!)

Pedantic Man further notes that ‘hoi’ means ‘the’, but almost everyone that uses the phrase says ‘the hoi polloi’, which is like saying ‘the la citadelle’, or ‘with au jus’ (usually mispronounced ‘with oh juice’). That last one really pisses Pedantic Man off.

Whoops you’re right again. I’m thinking of hoity-toity or some other bizarre wording. I should have gone to a private school. Damn it.

Just don’t let it happen again, buck-o! I can’t control Pedantic Man when he gets angry.

The country cannot afford both a rising public pension burden and the Fed’s open-ended flow of trillions of dollars to Wall Street to prop up the Ponzi and give the illusion that pension funds are solvent. Wall Street has probably already issued the orders to its Republicrat hirelings: throw the public sector workers under the bus. Nothing can be allowed to interfere with the TBTF banker’s speculation and taxpayer-guarenteed obscene profits. This is going to be a wake-up for life-long Democrats who assumed their slavish devotion and bloc vote to the DNC would be rewarded with something like loyalty.

Paul Craig Roberts has an excellent article about that on Vdare this morning. I’ve posted the link, but it hasn’t shown up yet. And it may not, considering Vdare is labeled a “hate” website, LOL!

PCR is a card-carrying member of the ACLU.

I’m also a card-carrying member of the ACLU, even though I oppose a lot of their stands. No one else in America, especially the so-called Conservatives, are standing up for the Constitution and Civil Liberties.

republicans - austerity for everyone but the banks.

democrats - austerity for no one including the banks.

both polices are doomed to fail. we’re damned if we do folks and damned if we don’t. i’m on the side of the do’s.

“The country cannot afford both a rising public pension burden and the Fed’s open-ended flow of trillions of dollars to Wall Street to prop up the Ponzi and give the illusion that pension funds are solvent.”

Charles Hugh Smith’s book “Survival” is entirely about these two opposing forces’ struggle to maintain the status quo.

great read.

most of us…the forgotten man (woman) are the one’s caught in the middle. it is our toil for which they struggle.

sad.

Serious Query:

Why are the quasi-military public service unions (police and fire fighters,) exempted from the proposed cutbacks?

Why are the traditionally male police and fire unions allowed collective bargaining rights but not the traditionally female teachers, nurses, and office workers unions?

More to the point, why are the National Guard (under State jurisdiction,) not allowed collective bargaining rights if police unions are?

What is the judicial/political/economic reasoning here? Anybody?

Because the banksters and their fluffers need the cops and the firemen to protect their ill-gotten gains. At least for now.

“They came for my neighbor, and I said nothing……..”

ahansen, you ask many good questions I have wondered myself. I don’t understand the hands-off attitude towards military, police, fire especially by “CONservatives”.

As a former military officer I can tell you the wasted $ thrown towards private contractors is obscene. Obscene. Do I need to say it again?

And military pay and benefits are excellent for a “volunteer” military. I chuckle when I hear this expression. Stop-Loss? Ever tried to get out before your commitment is up? The only voluntary part is getting in. Getting out is totally out of one’s control.

As a former military officer I can tell you the wasted $ thrown towards private contractors is obscene. Obscene. Do I need to say it again?

Sir, once is enough, SIR!

“Why are the quasi-military public service unions (police and fire fighters,) exempted from the proposed cutbacks?’

duh…because they’re heroes of course!

“republicans - austerity for everyone but the banks.

democrats - austerity for no one including the banks.”

Excuse me? Last Sept. the Dems tried to pass a bill ending tax breaks for offshoring jobs and pass those tax break to local businesses to hire.

The Repubs defeated it.

Excuse me? Last Sept. the Dems tried to pass a bill ending tax breaks for offshoring jobs and pass those tax break to local businesses to hire.

We get it. We’ve all heard it. No need to repeat it multiple times a day, every day.

Obviously, many here don’t get it.

I think you should keep repeating it, eco.

I feel like Paul Revere, only nobody is listening.

+1. Repeating that truth is important as the wingnuts monotonously repeat their pandering lies.

Stay on’em brother.

Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-02-18 13:20:45
Because the banksters and their fluffers need the cops and the firemen to protect their ill-gotten gains. At least for now.

“They came for my neighbor, and I said nothing……..”
————–

Yep, you’ve nailed it, X-GSfixr.

I don’t know about Palmetto, but my mother worked at a private school for a few years to cover mine and my brother’s tuition and then we homeschooled. Now, I have a job — and no kids. Why the hell should I pay to educate and feed other people’s kids? Especially when, what, 65% of kids are fat. Why should my tax dollars go to pay to feed two out of three meals to kids who are already overfed?

As for public roads, I pay gas taxes and tolls. So, I’m not a free-rider.

“Why the hell should I pay to educate and feed other people’s kids?”

To create future taxpayers instead of future welfare recipients?

I’m a fairly conservative guy, but I agree more with Oxide on this issue.

You should pay for the general education of society because educated societies produces greater amounts of innovation, goods, and services for everyone to consume. When a standard of living rises, you benefit even if indirectly and not through your own children.

The free-lunch issue and fat kids I can see why anyone would question it on the surface. Let’s look at what these kids are eating at home–I bet they don’t get much good nutrition. Cheetos don’t qualify, but that’s what they eat because the 7-11 is the grocery store for a lot of urban kids. The free-lunch program at least gives kids something decent (I agree it could be more nutritious).

To create future taxpayers instead of future welfare recipients?

False choice. Welfare is not a given, and likely those (like me) who don’t think they should be forced to subsidize the education of others’ children also don’t think that taxes should go to welfare (certainly not for all the programs we have now)

The free-lunch issue and fat kids I can see why anyone would question it on the surface. Let’s look at what these kids are eating at home–I bet they don’t get much good nutrition. Cheetos don’t qualify, but that’s what they eat because the 7-11 is the grocery store for a lot of urban kids. The free-lunch program at least gives kids something decent (I agree it could be more nutritious).

I would like to see every school in this country with a garden. Think of all the things the kids could learn — where nutritious food comes from and how to grow it, how to work as a team, and aesthetics. (Who wouldn’t want to have a pretty garden?)

Then there’s science — everything from atmospheric science (when’s it gonna rain?) to botany (will that grow here?).

I could go on and on, but you get the point.

“False choice. Welfare is not a given, and likely those (like me) who don’t think they should be forced to subsidize the education of others’ children also don’t think that taxes should go to welfare (certainly not for all the programs we have now)”

I used to feel that way, but at some point my view changed.

I believe the rationale that got through to me was that there was societal good in having kids be educated rather than uneducated, and so it makes sense for society to pay for it.

Imagine for a minute how much worse shape we would be in with no public schooling available;all of those kids would be doing _something_, and a lot of that something would not be good.

So even if you ignore the future tax-base arguments, the “child care” element of schooling keep those kids from breaking into your house while you are at work. Even just that is a significant societal good.

the “child care” element of schooling keep those kids from breaking into your house while you are at work.

That’s possible, but I think you mis-represent the likely scenario here. Most kids aren’t going to be breaking into houses. Most kids will be out playing, or going to school (that their parents pay for). Or will be watched by their parents at home.

Yes, some will get into trouble. I’ll give you that.

I understand your argument, and understand to some degree. Heck, I’d be quite amenable to parents paying 75% of the cost of their child’s education and us taxpayers picking up the rest.

At the moment I just can’t handle all the money siphoned off of taxpayers “for the children”. It doesn’t matter how much money they have - they always need more, and need to issue bonds to get something RIGHT NOW rather than waiting until they can pay for it without borrowing.

…the “child care” element of schooling keep those kids from breaking into your house while you are at work.

To the west of me is a house with a kid who hasn’t been to school in years. Two years ago, one of her relatives said that she was 15. Which would make her 16 or 17 now.

I’ve shared my concern about her just sitting at home, thumpin’ and bumpin’ to rap, with the neighborhood association officers. Who didn’t give a fig. One of them even said that if she’s 16, she could drop out.

Which means that the window of opportunity may have closed. At least as long as she keeps her nose clean.

She did get busted for drugs back in ‘08, and one of the terms of her probation was that she attend school regularly. And, yes, our local probation officers do check up on kids who are required to go to school. Oh, brother, do they ever.

Nowadays, there’s quite the procession of what appear to be young female relatives bringing babies to visit. I can’t help thinking that she may be getting ideas that, ahem, it might be time to start emulating these gals. Matter of fact, when I saw her the other day, she appears to have been gaining weight around the middle.

This is not to say that having kids at a young age won’t be a motivator for her to shape up and make something of herself. Case in point: I once worked with a lady who had her only child out of wedlock at age 19. Her work ethic lit a fire under everyone else in our office. We didn’t dare slack off in her presence, lest we get a chewing out from her.

However, my former coworker seems to be the exception. I know of many other cases where the babies started coming along early, and we the taxpayers got to pay for the consequences.

I’m often on the fence about whether funding this or funding that is a good choice, and try hard to see the light of which is the better way, individual responsibility, or responsibility of society for the downtrodden. I then realized the entire debate is a false dichotomy. It doesn’t need to be one way or the other to be improved, and more importantly, I’m not the one who should be deciding on the nationwide level. What do I mean?

Simple. Move all these state and federal programs down a level, and push the choices to a more local level. If someone in Arkansas doesn’t like the way we do things in California, it wouldn’t frikkin matter because they wouldn’t be affected by it. And instead of sending taxes to the state to be re-parceled back to the individual counties, just have the counties collect and manage the taxes locally for education.

A friend of mine says this is nonsense because we would raise a bunch of morons in Arkansas who are not taught about evolution and science because there is no federal push for standards. Or, if the state of Arkansas (don’t know why I’m picking on that state) was poor, the citizens wouldn’t get the same services as California citizens.

I say as a citizen with more local power through voting there would be more control to fix problems locally. What do you guys think?

“I would like to see every school in this country with a garden.”

My elementary school and the high school both had gardens. Probably it was a relic of progressive ed of the 1920s, back to nature, manual arts, craftsman movements and all that. I think they took us out there a half dozen times, and a custodian actually took care of it. Maybe by the rock ‘n’ roll era, students were *too bored* with that sort of thing and the ag effort faded away.

BTW this was LA city schools in the 50s.

“What do you guys think?”

Against the Feds? You sound like a terrorist!

You either pay for their education or pay for their welfare… even if it’s prison.

THAT IS a given.

“Why the hell should I pay to educate and feed other people’s kids?”

I see that “Christian” homeschooling wasn’t really Christian now was it?

“Why the hell should I pay to educate and feed other people’s kids?”

Because someday you may be old. And they will be running things….

Meanness begets meanness.

How much? What does your kid want to do and what is he or she capable of doing as an adult?

Very early in life, I decided that I wanted to be an artist. My family wasn’t terribly thrilled about this idea, but I held fast.

Went to public schools with all sorts of cool art classes — drawing, sculpture, design, and photography. Those classes gave me the basic skills from which I now make my living.

Bill the gangbangerthugpimpwantabees would run wild on the streets if they didn’t have to be in school.

The debris of the failure of public education is all around us. Posters here talk about how uneducated the masses are.”

That’s because the stupid parents don’t work with thier kids and expect the teachers to do it all

like the teachers work for them or something like maids clean up my kids.

and the government will give more welfare if you have more kids.

and its not working well so the government decides the poor kids with parents who could care less about home work need to live next to people who do work hard with thier kids in a ” it takes a village” solution. but I notice they don’t mix with their own uber elite kids. different village I guess.

“Bill the gangbangerthugpimpwantabees would run wild on the streets if they didn’t have to be in school.”

So schools are meant to be juvenile detention facilities?

And what about the other 17 hours of the day?

From what I have seen of public education schools, I believe the term “youth facilities” would be more accurately descriptive than “school”.

Public school is a very expensive way to get children educated, and frankly the results are mixed at best.

Smaller and more specialized schools focusing on individual student needs and getting rid of the requirement for $400 McGraw Hill text books would go a long way. Time to get into the new century on education and time for parents and students to realize it is their responsibly to learn, rather than someone else’s responsibility to teach them!

I learned (outside of school) Electronic circuit design, 7 different computer programming languages, Spanish and advanced my math skills substantially beyond what I learned in College. OK, living in South America a few years helped with the Spanish, but even there I actively sought to learn the native language which made my experience there better.

Yeah, the public sector school system is wasteful/inefficient.

So let’s privatize it, and hand it over to all the banksters, who did such a bang-up job with the home mortgage industry.

How many poor folks would educate their children if they had to pay for it themselves? They can barely afford to feed them.

Oh yeah, and while we’re at it, let’s kill support for Planned Parenthood (Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind) and eliminate abortions so poor children will have babies as soon as they are fertile. They won’t be getting sex education in school, so they won’t have any idea of the consequences of sex. If people want their kids to have sex education and family planning services, let them pay for it themselves.

Pretty soon, we will have bands of homeless, beggar children accosting anyone they can find with their hands out. Not long after that,we will have a very large group of angry, ignorant, desparate young people with no hope who have lots of time on their hands for rioting in the streets. We will have slums to rival the cities of any 3rd world nation. Our parks and forests will be stripped of trees as people burn them for heat and cooking. Cholera , TB, and other diseases will be rampant.

Do you really want to live in Haiti? Have those of you advocating the abolishment of the public school system really thought it through?

BTW, I am public school educated, as are my children and grandchildren. There are some fine teachers and good students in the system. I want my descendents to live in a country where everyone has the opportunity for education. An educated populace is fundamental to democracy.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2014249918_apuscongressspending.html

“Thursday night’s action was dominated by a lengthy debate on an amendment by Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind., a strong foe of abortion, to block Planned Parenthood from receiving any federal monies. The organization provides a variety of women’s health services, and its website says abortion is a “safe and legal way to end pregnancy.” “

Many people have no idea who Dickens was and his significance.

Far too many people want to go back to the 19th century.

How many poor folks would educate their children if they had to pay for it themselves? They can barely afford to feed them.

We provide the poor with public transportation vouchers, yet are expected to provide them Rolls Royce costing education that provides used Toyota quality.

The more money we give public school districts, the more they take and the more they demand. It is time to substantially limit what they get, particularly since they have demonstrated more money only results in poorer quality education.

How could money be saved and still provide education to those who are willing to learn? First we could eliminate the expensive McGraw Hill mandated books schools are required to provide. We could bring back volunteer teaching. Think about it all over the world children are being taught without multi billion dollar school district budgets.

What we have today is some kind of perverse boondoggle!

Most of the waste in school systems is created directly by the school board.

School boards are elected.

It doesn’t get any closer to “taking responsibility for you own mess.”

“We could bring back volunteer teaching.”

How are these volunteers supposed to support themselves? When did we have volunteer teachers? I think even one room, prairie schoolhouses were staffed by paid teachers.

Do you really think volunteer teachers will be as good as the ones we have now?

Are you volunteering?

I am not a teacher. My problem with public education is that there is no cost ceiling. We are told pay no matter how expensive, and how heroic teachers are. I am certain in a perfect world where government coffers had trillions upon trillions of dollars then yes pay the good people whatever they want, but in our real world billions are spend with little return on investment. My good parents paid for 4 of us to go to private school (not rich, but middle class). I guess we paid it back after they passed away, but I for one am sure glad they did. Public education is a gift horse and it is time to look it in the mouth!

Thursday night’s action was dominated by a lengthy debate on an amendment by Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind., a strong foe of abortion, to block Planned Parenthood from receiving any federal monies.

Why should they get federal monies?

I agree. And I’m pro-choice and support planned parenthood.

Organizations that provide a public good DO NOT HAVE TO BE GOVERNMENT FUNDED. PP gets a lot of private donations. Workers volunteer at times too (AFAIK). They charge on a sliding scale - those who can pay more, do. Those who can’t don’t.

We don’t need the government to have these organizations.

Seriously. The government is not the solution to every. single. problem.

ISTM that you believe that government should not try to solve any social problem. So you can keep more of your hard earned cash.

I have news for you. Cutting funding for Planned Parenthood will have no effect on your taxes. It may significantly affect crime rates in 20 years as the unplanned children come of age.

Appreciate all your comments here, Happy.
Please send them to your Senators?

Sooooo, happy, how much cashola have you donated to PP lately?

ISTM that you believe that government should not try to solve any social problem. So you can keep more of your hard earned cash.

As a general rule, I don’t think the gov’t should be involved in things. Instead, what I do when I see an organization providing a valued service is that I give them money. That way 1) I cut out the middle man, and 2) no one has to be coerced into funding something just because I personally find it valuable.

Yes, they thought it would be nice for them to sacrifice $3K out of a $70K salary, so that the millionaires could sacrifice $2 million out of $10 million salary.

Too many greedy sob’s don’t get the idea there there is a comfortable threshold,* and after that it’s all show-off. The $70K lib needs that $3K a lot more than the $10 millionaire needs an extra $2 million.

But I understand that you don’t get this. I understand that someday, you too will have $10 million and god forbid someone take that $2 million from you, even if it means starving the $70K middle class down to $40K, down to $20K, while rent and food stay too damn high and suddenly they have to pay for the kids’ schooling on top of it.

————-
*what is that comfortable threshold? I think Obama is in the ballpark with his $250K line in the sand.

“But I understand that you don’t get this.”

Telling someone they are stupid rarely makes your argument more compelling.

Obama’s “line in the sand” is laughable. Way above basic human needs, so far so that the vast majority will feel safe with it, and yet high enough that the smart folks who can pull that much out of this system know he is only joking.

If $250K is so “way above basic human needs,” then why did the Republicans fight tooth and nail (filibuster) to keep the tax breaks for the $250Kers? So that the $250Kers would “create jobs?” Gimme a break.

Yes, they thought it would be nice for them to sacrifice $3K out of a $70K salary, so that the millionaires could sacrifice $2 million out of $10 million salary.

You didn’t address the issue. It’s not sacrifice if you’re not willing to do it unless you can force everyone to do it.

Demonstrate your virtues, and perhaps you can convince me to join. But until then, your words are empty.

Too many greedy sob’s don’t get the idea there there is a comfortable threshold,* and after that it’s all show-off. The $70K lib needs that $3K a lot more than the $10 millionaire needs an extra $2 million.

Let me ignore your personal insults (of course you can’t respond without jabbing at me personally. That would require a level of maturity I understand you don’t have). I *DO* get that. You assume that I need the government to take money from me to help others, and that I’m not willing and capable of doing it myself. And you ignore the whole concept of private property rights.

Fine….I live a comfortable life, so you can take from me to give to someone making $50k a year. But hey, you make $60k a year, so we’ll take $30k fro you and give it to the person making $10k a year with 4 kids. Because hey, your basic needs are met, and you don’t really *need* that money, right?

If you really don’t grasp that point, then I feel sorry for you and for the future of this country.

The money I have? I’ve sacrificed to make it. I sacrificed all along to work hard, study hard, make hard choices, and it’s not always gone my way. And even though you vote to take and redistribute my money, I still give to help others, take care of my family, and continue to save so that I can live comfortably even when life doesn’t go my way.

Millions of others sacrificed as well. Millions who lost their jobs as direct result of fraud and greed.

“Let me ignore your personal insults (of course you can’t respond without jabbing at me personally. That would require a level of maturity I understand you don’t have).”

I’ve never in my in my life observed a sanctimonious whining squealing pseudo victim like you. Never.

Millions of others sacrificed as well. Millions who lost their jobs as direct result of fraud and greed.

and what willing choice did they make to deem that “sacrifice”?

It was me. The stats were from wikipedia:

“Today, there are approximately 80 million Echo Boomers [Gen Y].”

“Seventy-six million American children were born between 1945 and 1964 [baby boomers]”

—
Like I said, demographically, we’re better off than almost any other western nation. And way better off than China and Russia.

+1

I did indeed study science and some engineering subjects in High School.

The guy who analyses your drinking water does not need an engineering degree. The guy who manages your sewage treatment plant does not have any kind of college degree requirement, only the guy who designed it. The judge? and so forth.

Who keeps your power on so you can spin your zydeco? Who analyzes your water for treatment? Who manages the sewage treatment plants? Who argues or judges cases in court? Who programs the stoplights so intersections don’t turn into demolition derby? Who does the complex budgeting? Do I even have to mention the medical field, ALL of which requires post HS training?

Thank you, oxide!

I’m a scientist who pretends to be an engineer. I also took science (and probably engineering, although they didn’t call it that) in high school. And it was far too basic compared to what scientists and engineers do.

In answer to ‘what keeps the power on,” oh yes, they need college degrees. And the judge — I wasn’t referring only to engineering. Law is 7+ years after high school.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-02-18 10:11:25

I did indeed study science and some engineering subjects in High School.

The guy who analyses your drinking water does not need an engineering degree. The guy who manages your sewage treatment plant does not have any kind of college degree requirement, only the guy who designed it. The judge? and so forth.

I used to work at a “poop farm” . The basic requirement for an entry level job ( for a technician ) was at least an associates degree in electronics with five years experience in industrial process control. An engineering degree with emphasis on process control was preferred. In general, technicians are required to have at least a two year degree. In the past, military training could substitute but it seems like the quality of the military training has gone downhill since the early ’90s

If chemistry and trig and calculus and cellular biology isn’t science and engineering, what is?

Is it everything? Of course not. But it is the foundation of everything else.

OK, I supervised technicians who ran the waste water treatment plants in two large scale Chemical plants in my Plant Engineering life. In both cases these guys were technicians, good ones, but not engineers. Small town size plants. I suppose a large city would naturally have an engineer at the wheel on their plant. Our certainly does not.

I know the water/wasterwater operations field all too well. You won’t find a PE in any of them, even in some of the largest municipal plants. In either type facility, basic organic and general chemistry is highly beneficial.

People are indeed getting stupider. The last couple of elections were proof positive of that.

“Maybe because the parents are stressed out because they have no jobs, much less job security?”

Maybe? (I know you meant that as a rhetorical question)

Don’t forget changing demographics and more dual-income households.

I know it’s not P.C. to say this, but having a parent at home to watch over the kids and help with their homework makes a really big difference.

At least your school is not in debt bondage (hopefully) like most of ours are. Practically every district around here built a new school during the bubble years, complete with state of the art flashing message boards at the street. We’ll have that debt service even if we cannot afford books for the kids.

My son takes AP classes, and I have to buy his text books for those classes as there is no school budget to provide them. At the beginning of each semester we are presented with a bill for lab fees and such, usually $100-200

Here’s a (honest) question: what does it cost to educate your son each year? Textbooks, cost of facilities, teacher, etc?

How much do you pay?

If #1 is greater than #2, where does the difference come from?

It costs the state $7000 per year.

Who is funding it? Taxpayers, including me.

I’m not asking for $15,000 per year spending. But if it drops from 7K to 6K, it will have to come out of somewhere.

I’m not asking for $15,000 per year spending. But if it drops from 7K to 6K, it will have to come out of somewhere.

Yes, but if it costs $7k, and you’re paying $300 in direct fees and say $2k in property taxes, you do understand that the other $4700 is coming from somewhere, right? Either other taxpayers (who don’t have kids in school), or else it’s coming from debt issued.

The bottom line is the money isn’t there. I know you get this, but there’s not a magic money tree outside of city hall they use to pick up this difference. Cuts have to be made simply because the money isn’t there - it doesn’t matter what’s in the public interest, or what the majority wants if there simply isn’t any money.

drumminnj,

We homeschool our kids, so don’t get any of that funding, but we are more than happy to pay for other kids’ educations.

It’s a bit short-sighted to suggest that we stop funding public education.

We homeschool our kids, so don’t get any of that funding, but we are more than happy to pay for other kids’ educations.

Kudos to you. I fail to see how that leads to the idea that everyone should be compelled to pay for others kids’ educations.

Bring in the thought police.

Exactly Steve.

Creationism has no place in public school except in a class on theologies and philosophies.

It’s also allowed for some outright historical revisionism.

I dunno. I thought about creationism all the time in biology class. I wanted to creationise the wicked good looking biology teacher really bad.

Interesting. My folks used to chase me outside because I preferred to sit and read all day.

No it has to be both.

The taxpayers are not capable of feeding these 2 monsters at the same time; wallstreet and public/govmnt largesses.

I’m seeing a lot of “cram downs” on the public employees, and absolutely no cram downs on the banksters/multinational corporations/the Top 5%ers.

So what kind of bright idea are the Republitards going to come up with, when the salary cram-down on the public sector is complete, half of the police force and military is on the Mexican drug-lords payroll, and people are migrating FROM the US back to Somalia and Haiti, because it is safer there?

“Oooops! Sorry, we had our head up our ass….”

or “Mission Accomplished”??

I’m seeing a lot of “cram downs” on the public employees, and absolutely no cram downs on the banksters/multinational corporations/the Top 5%ers.

Ignoring the bailouts (which we’re all against), you must be able to see that one is paid for by taxpayers, the other by willing customers, right?

Ignoring the bailouts (which we’re all against), you must be able to see that one is paid for by taxpayers, the other by willing customers, right?

No. We are forced to use the services of the financial industry in the U.S. if we expect to engage in regular transactions. Try keeping all that cash in your house and see what they say if the cops (or whomever) find it. They’ll say you’re a drug dealer or some kind of criminal because there is always the assumption in the MSM (controlled by the elite) that someone with a lot of cash is a criminal.

Not only that, but so many things now require us to use credit or debit cards, etc. We have to have a credit report in order to get hired or rent a house, etc.

BTW, the financial industry has taken TRILLIONS of dollars in backstops and guarantees, yet the workers who actually make our society safer and better are somehow not entitled to what they are owed for **working,** not speculating?

Wrestling match? How about a classic duel? Cap-and-ball pistols at 15 paces.

Can it be at 2 paces? And with machine guns in an enclosed metal box?

Oh I think you’ve got it, ahansen.

I have seen estimates of $2.5 to 3.6 Billions. Not sure where the 137 mil came from? Houdini?
Looks like we should put those guys in charge. What trillion dollars in deficits? It’s only 20 bucks.

No, butters, Houdini has died. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houdini
The $137M figure came from the Governor’s website. But then, you have to read to know this sort of thing.

$2.5-3B is the projected deficit in Medicaid spending over the next decade once federal stimulus funding expires in June. Working people are not the cause of this shortfall, but certain corporate oligarchs are not looking forward to paying their share of the cost of caring for their seasonal and newly-released employees.

Another reason why a single payer health services system is imperative if we are to get these unsustainable costs under control.

The Kochtopus has its tentacles around Wisconsin…

boy did he pick a poor time to pitch a hissy fit.

fishwrap

Photographer Who Took Family Portrait Of Girl Shot In Tucson Suing Media For Using The Photo

More from Tucson’s underbelly.

From the story comments about the photographer:

I don’t know if he was trying to profit off a tragedy so much as fell victim to the ownership mentality. “His” photo was being used without him getting paid and in today’s ownership society, that just isn’t right. He probably feels like he should be getting paid for every use of his photo. So I wouldn’t be so hard on him, he is just expecting what every other content producer expects.

To which I say:

Having a client contract that specifies to whom the rights to a photograph are licensed, and how they are licensed, is SOP for any photographer. I conduct my photographic business the same way.

Didn’t Associated Press sue the guy that turned one if thier photos into the colorful Obama Hope portrait?

Didn’t Associated Press sue the guy that turned one if thier photos into the colorful Obama Hope portrait?

They initiated a suit, which, ISTR, was recently dropped.

And, BTW, the photographer who took the photo that Shepherd Fairey used for creating the image wasn’t an AP employee. He was a freelancer. I think that related to the reason why AP dropped the case. Feel free to correct me on this point.

As for using a photo as the basis of another creation, or including someone else’s creation in your photo, that’s quite the area of litigation. Want to read up on this topic? Head over to Carolyn Wright’s Photo Attorney Blog.

“His” photo was being used without him getting paid and in today’s ownership society, that just isn’t right. He probably feels like he should be getting paid for every use of his photo. So I wouldn’t be so hard on him, he is just expecting what every other content producer expects.

and what copyright law guarantees. Copyright is automatic. Any unauthorized use is then a civil matter (unless over a certain amount). If the copyright is registered with the copyright office prior to infringement, you can sue for statutory damages and easily win.

I had photographs lifted without permission, and used in an advertising campaign. You bet your ass I got in touch with them, and tried to get compensation. I offered a fair invoice amount, and they told me to pound sand. So I brought in the lawyers…

Got 4x what I invoiced them for. And if they would have talked to me beforehand, I probably would have let them use them for free.

Carolyn Wright’s Photo Attorney Blog

Carolyn was the one who helped me with my infringement case, actually. Great lady. Well worth the 30% contingency she took.

Maybe it’s just me, but many of the rich and wealthy that I’ve met are some of the dumbest SOBs I’ve ever met.

If weren’t for the power of their money to cover up and fix their stupidity, they would have been on the street a long time ago.

Marie Antoinette would be proud.

They’re on the case already, but she’s slippery.

And, on one of these fine winter days, that mean ole Chicago Hawk’s gonna blow her slippery house of cards down!

Abuse of the honor system?! I’m shocked!

And people wonder why some people have to be forced to do the right thing.

the govt should just give everyone a free house.

and a pony! Don’t forget the pony!

Failed? It’s working quite well for the pigmen!!!

Do you need the tutorial on monetarism and Keynesian theory again, prof? It’s really getting tiresome. Might be a good reading project for you, since you seem to have such interest (albeit misguided) in the subject.

Although I can sympathize. I’ve been looking for a rental over there for the past six months. Reluctant to sign a lease and move, because I work on a month to month contract, and anyplace that is affordable (IMO) is in areas where I’d have trouble retaining my personal property.

Not that it’s any better where I’m at. Got my tools stolen out of my car for the second time in six months a week or two ago. At least they were Harbor Freight specials, instead of the Snap-On stuff they got back in September.

At least they were Harbor Freight specials, instead of the Snap-On stuff they got back in September.

Snap-On tool thieves are the lowest form of vermin.

“Snap-On tool thieves are the lowest form of vermin.”

A few years ago or so, a couple of meth heads hijacked a Snap-On tool truck and driver in Pierce County, WA, murdered him in cold blood, stole all the tools, and burned the truck to the ground. A helicopter found the smoking ruins in the forest a day or so later. They caught the scumbags, thankfully.

No, but it’d seriously cut into their profits. Who wants to drive to a seedy crapshack when you can get your weed from a convenience store?

The convenience store will be owned by the former operators of the seedy crapshack.

And if anyone here thinks that legalizing drugs will suddenly make these dope-growing folks into upstanding citizens, well, I’d like a puff of whatcha been smoking.

Legalization wouldn’t change those folks a bit. But it would put them out of the pot business.

It would decrease the amount of money flowing into the pockets of Mexican drug lords.

Maybe. Or they might just change their job titles, get some venture cap cash, (literally) kill all their competitors, then have an IPO, or sell themselves to Blackrock, Carlylse, or Cerebus.

I’m sure that would solve everything.

“And if anyone here thinks that legalizing drugs will suddenly make these dope-growing folks into upstanding citizens,”

No, but it will turn upstanding citizens into dope-growing folks.
(who then won’t have to get into financial transactions with folks who also deal in meth and other horrors). Marijuana is called a ‘gateway drug’, and I doubt that it would be considered that if not for the buyer’s need to cross paths with the pusher. (Cue Steppenwolf here).

We all knew what “middle class” used to be.

Currently, it’s being defined downward. Pretty soon, a married couple working at two $15/hour contract jobs will be the “new” middle class.

“Pretty soon, a married couple working at two $15/hour contract jobs will be the “new” middle class.”

I think we’re there.

We ARE there and that ain’t middle class. That’s still poor.

“That’s still poor.”

$60K is the new poor???

For 2 people? Yes. After taxes, that’s less than 50K

For two people.

For a family? Depending on number of kids, that’s barely getting by.

Do not confuse “poor” with “poverty.” Official income for poverty is a damn joke.

Livin’ the dream…….

If we were to live in a manner typical of the middle class household from 60 years ago, you would be regarded as working or lower class. A single family car, no dishwasher, possibly a single black and white TV, a modest vacation within driving distance.

Hmmm, I don’t own a car, the dishwashers are at the end of my arms, and there’s no teevee in this house. And I’m not a big vacation-taker.

Does that mean I’m lower class? Yikes!

Middle class 60 years ago also only required one working adult to maintain

His class was held in a room with an American flag in a floor stand. Mario noticed that the flag wasn’t hanging correctly, so he went over and fixed it.

That attention to detail wowed the whole class.

Having been in a military ceremonial unit in a past life, I attribute that sort of thing more to occupation-induced OCD than professionalism, but I’m kinda prone to that myself sometimes :-).

Once again, blame it all on the poor.

My headline would be

Bubble jobs created by orchestrated credit surge used to hide the destruction of manufacturing and real productive jobs are now gone for good. Print as they will people will face higher and higher food and fuel so they will use fewer and fewer services to save money.

Well said.