The Housing Bubble

You want to REMOVE most personal touches from the house so that people can “see themselves” in it. It’s supposed to look more like a furniture display than a house where people are living.

And that’s precisely what home stagers do. (Remember them? They were quite the thing five years ago when the bubble was just starting to hiss air.)

Never mind the personal touches. I want all of it gone so that I can see any faults in the walls windows and floors.

I want all of it gone so that I can see any faults in the walls windows and floors.

And I want to know about the electrical and plumbing systems. Are they up to snuff? Or will I, the buyer, have to pay for an expensive updating project?

“And I want to know about the electrical and plumbing systems. Are they up to snuff? Or will I, the buyer, have to pay for an expensive updating project?”

That’s what inspections are for.

That’s what inspections are for.

In the ideal world, that’s what home inspections are for.

But many are the home inspectors — especially those who are recommended by real estate agents — who gloss over such important issues. To the detriment of the home buyer.

That’s exactly why sellers want to have furniture and stuff in the house. It distracts simple minded buyers from noticing potential flaws in the actual house. Sadly, it seems to work in a lot of cases. Room too small? Use smaller furniture. Leaky window? Put a table in front of the water damage. If the house is empty it’s much easier to spot those defects.

“…..personal touches….”

I really enjoyed the personal touches I saw one time that a former owner had put in, before he was evidently hauled off to jail.

-The foot square steel plate on the front door, to reinforce the deadbolt

-The naked women paintings on black velvet.

-The custom bookcase filled with porn tapes

and to cap it all off…..

-instead of a pool table in the man-cave, he had a gynecologist’s exam table.

Yeah, bet he really impressed the ladies…….

Oh my goodness, GS-fixer!!!!

There are some creepy people in this world.

“Some home builders would have paid actors at an open house pretending they were the family living there. The FB would walk in on a pretend birthday party and imagine them living in the house.”

Fraud and deception is what makes the real estate sales business tick.

“scare the corporations into NOT hiring and sending everyone to the public sector”

Where are you getting this? Beck and Limbaugh? The union supporters WANT the coporations to HIRE in the US. But corporations aren’t doing that, even with tax loopholes, tax breaks, and low interest rates. They went to China anyway, union or no union. So, since corporations won’t hire, the government is trying to hire. If nothing else, the government needs to hire people to help keep the outsourced workers fed.

Why did they go to China? Is it because the US has provided them with a great, competitive alternative? Come on! People will not over pay for labor. Period!

Come on! People will not over pay for labor. Period!

Wrong. People overpay for labor all the time. Brazil does it with very high tariffs. The kept a lot of their jobs USA lost.

Was there a price to pay? Of course. The price to pay is more expensive goods but it’s a price worth paying. Brazil makes the right choice to “overpay for labor. Period

Free-trade is a crock that mainly benefits the very rich and corporations.

UR funny Rio. You have no clue about economics, but UR funny!

You have no clue about economics, but UR funny!

Thank you. Sometimes I try to be funny.

But in fact I know a lot more about the issue than you apparently do with your Chamber of Commerce talking points, because I live in a country that practices protectionism. They have kept jobs and the price they pay is more expensive goods and maybe less profit for the corporate owners. But it has kept more jobs in Brazil. Now that’s a fact and protectionist Brazil is eating USA’s lunch in many ways now.

I live it, I see it but you only theorize it and poorly at that.

I suggest you read Dr. Ravi Batra’s 1994 book, “The Myth of Free Trade”. 80% of what he said would happen, has happened.

I guess he had “no clue about economics” either.

Brazil decided to get into the aviation market about 30 years ago. Helped Embraer get on their feet by protecting their home markets.

This year, Embraer is going to deliver 20% of the jets on the US market.

This year, Embraer is going to deliver 20% of the jets on the US market.

From my perspective, they look like good, solid planes. But, X-GSfixr, you’re the expert on this topic and I’ll defer to your judgment.

I suggest you read Dr. Ravi Batra’s 1994 book, “The Myth of Free Trade”. 80% of what he said would happen, has happened.

Batra was criticized back in the early 90s for not presenting his theories in “classical” economics form - namely, he didn’t use graphs to “prove” his work. I remember speaking with an economics professor at the time about this.

But then, now, Keynes himself - the father of modern economic theory - is being questioned. I don’t know if Batra is a wrong or right - he predicted a depression IIRC, but beyond that I don’t know the details of his theories.

But, interesting data point, I do plan to look into his work.

Comment by Mike in Miami
2011-03-01 07:15:17
Instead of asking, “I don’t get those pay/benefit packages, why should they?”

Please get real! If anybody in private industry would ask for such benfits they would get fired. If private unions (in the US or Europe) would ask for such benefits their jobs would get outsourced to Chindia in a heartbeat.

AND

Comment by Bad Andy
2011-03-01 12:37:12
Why did they go to China? Is it because the US has provided them with a great, competitive alternative? Come on! People will not over pay for labor. Period!

———————-

This is EXACTLY why we need very strong unions. Unions fought against “free trade” and outsourcing jobs.

What you guys don’t seem to realize is that those corporations relied on U.S. citizens to buy those products made in Chindia. Without us, the system never would have functioned. Americans were tricked into spending as much as they did because they believed in the lie that “globalism would make them rich.” They bought into the corporations’ propaganda that “unions are bad,” and “debt equals wealth.”

These companies could have moved overseas, but if we had banded together as American workers, and enacted high tariffs on these imports, then we could have made it MORE expensive to manufacture in Chindia (if they wanted to sell here, where their best customers are), and they would have had no choice but to keep manufacturing here in the U.S., if they ever intended to sell here or benefit from our social, legal, and physical infrastructure (patent protection, anyone? limited liability/corporate protection? distribution channels? U.S. millitary protecting their sea lanes?).

Again, the unions were trying to protect American jobs, but so many private sector workers bought into the anti-union lies coming from their coporate masters…and now look where that has gotten everyone.

Should we compete with the poorest in the world? Should the workers have to compare with workers in the third world while our corporations enjoy the benefits of our infrastructure and military protections? Why do you believe this?

‘I guess he had “no clue about economics” either.’

True dat. He also wrote another prophetic book, which proved spectacularly wrong; maybe he neglected to factor in the ‘Greenspan factor’?

The Great Depression of 1990
Ravi Batra (Author)
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The 40 year war to bust unions

It’s doing a number on public union pension and salary benefits here in Massachusetts:

“Readers may be surprised to learn that 6,400 state employees made more than $100,000 in 2010.

Gov. Deval Patrick earned $137,241, ranking him 1,477th on the state payroll.

Read more: 6,400 state workers made $100K in 2010 | Boston Business Journal

“The number of state retirees who take home pensions of $100,000 or more has more than tripled over the past five years, adding to the pension system’s financial stress.”

Oh, and before someone pipes in from Iowa with “it doesn’t happen here” -

According to the bureau, about half of the nation’s 14.7 million union members live in six states: California, New York, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio and New Jersey.

Read more: Union membership in Massachusetts drops to 14.5 percent - Quincy, MA - The Patriot Ledger

Nailed it again, Rio.

Just govt employee unions for now. Tax payers cant afford it all.

Govt employee unions, because unlike private unions where I have a choice if I want to pay for a more expensive or inferior product, in the world of Govt employee unions we do not have this choice. Worse, while the economy and tax base has fractured in the aftermath of the real estate bubble collapse, these same unions demand ever more.

In California Union mandated pension funding is based on an 8% return on the pension fund investment, with a requirement that if 8% is not met the taxpayer make up the difference. In California over 5000 retired government workers earn over $100K in pensions guaranteed for life, even if the economy completes its collapse and unemployment is over 50% they will get paid as required by law. I had no say in this matter which was all decided behind closed doors in a wink wink nudge nudge manner by corrupt politicians and Union leaders.

http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/2009/09/08/retired-metropolitan-water-district-gm-has-collected-36-million-in-pension-pay/34741/

You (collective “you”) elected the politicians.

Again, unions did NOT cause the outsourcing of jobs. Corporations and the financial sector did — in search of ever-higher profits. They were never in the business of “hiring people.” They are in the business of making profits.

Unions are the only entities that have the incentive and ability to stand up to them. Unions are the only thing propping up what’s left of the middle class.

Whose side are you on? The side of those who outsourced your jobs, or the side of those who’ve long tried to protect your jobs?

Unions do not represent me or 95% of working Americans. The only think I am certain is that unions represent tax increases, fee increases, license increases, fine increases at a time when the rest of us already have to make do with less.

Are you suggesting that BECAUSE I am getting the shaft by corporate America it is therefore only fair I should also get it from public servants, because like corporate America they also have enhanced political connections?

Unions do not represent the average American worker, the middle class or anyone but their own interests and as it stands serve only the interest of a few groups, most notably and egregiously those working for the government.

Either Unions for ALL or none at all, but not taxes for me and union benefits and pensions for government workers on my back!

Finally, agreed businesses are there to make a profit. Fine, I might suggest government workers find an alternative source of money.

You (collective “you”) elected the politicians.

The politicians the collective “I” elected are beholden to special interest groups. Large corporations and organizations such as unions, various medical and military industrial complex groups, but not the individual voters who “elected” them. In that we really no longer have a democracy in America. I agree corporations get away with murder, but so do government unions, but while I can boycott a corporations products for the most part, how do I boycott a government workers pensions, pay or benefits when it is obviously out of line and damaging our economy and the lives of those it is supposed to serve?

If States and Municipalities can figure out how to meet the demands of their workers without asking me for money or debasing our economy by demanding printed money from the FED then fine, pay them whatever, but that is not reality and our States and Cities are broke and dysfunctional.

Unions do not work when only a tiny percentage of the population benefit at the cost of the rest of us. Once they served a great purpose and represented most Americans, but not any more.

at a time when the rest of us already have to make do with less.

No. Not all of the rest of us. ALL of the rest of us do not have to make do with less. There is a group that has more, more, more. It’s a fact.

Please consider that. Not ALL of the “rest of us” have to make do with less.

Who does not have to make do with less? What side of this fight are they supporting with millions of dollars?

For the most part most on this blog share a common interest in the recently demised housing bubble and its effects micro and macro on the world.

The point I am trying to make with regards to Unions and Government workers is to draw a connection between those of us who work in the private sector and thus of course pay government workers salaries and the fact that as less and less money is available in the private sector, tax revenues are correspondingly reduced.

I used to pay some $12,000 a year in State taxes when I was working full time (State wage taxes, sales taxes etc) and now pay less than $1,000 a year (business losses, not spending money on retail luxury items etc). This means that the $11,000 the state of California used to enjoy, and use to pay a couple of months of someones salary is no longer available. This means that the state can afford 2 less months of employee time a year, just on account of me. Multiply this by millions, and all of a sudden there is a problem. Worse, take away all the taxes on items purchased with HELOCS and the people employed as a result and so on and so on…

Through this time, at least in California, Unions have demanded more pay, more pensions and more medical benefits, which go up 20 a year by default.

My simple question is how is the government to meet these obligations when its tax base is gutted? (Don’t suggest a FED printing machine option).

The Unions SHOULD have been fighting off-shoring and manufacturing in China, but shortsighted idiots they are, they only made demands of their immediate employer who of course gave in every time and borrowed heavily to make it happen. What they did not do was to make sure the paymaster (private sector) was healthy and able to pay.

I put it out there Union demands when it comes to States and Municipalities are MOOT. The money is all gone. The “Rich” have it all, and of course when we refer to the “Rich” we mean multinational corporations, banks, big oil etc, not a few overtaxed schmucks making $200k a year.

GH,

The unions WERE fighting for everyone’s jobs. They fought against “free trade” and fought for higher wages, better compensation, and better working conditions for all workers.

If you didn’t join a union, how is that the fault of anyone else? You were perfectly able to organize, but you chose not to. Why do you think government workers should have to suffer for those who were too short-sighted to join the fight?

A history of unions:

http://www.socialstudieshelp.com/Eco_Unionization.htm

I personally believe ALL workers should be represented by unions. I believe they are a great idea and when done right benefit everyone. I agree the Unions WERE (past tense) fighting for everyones job.

My question is simple :

Current Government Union based wages, benefits and pensions are not sustainable. Unions are not willing to make the kind of Draconian cuts necessary to bring balance. What should be done to correct this?

Perhaps a 200% tax on goods manufactured overseas? That or a very very big adjustment in government expenditures and payroll.

You are wrong. Public sector workers have been making some very large concessions in the past few years. But apparently, this isn’t as “newsworthy” as the few who make six-figures in retirement (agree that it’s too much).

Yes, public sector workers should take a hit, and they ARE taking a hit in almost every case I’m aware of.

Yes, we need to enact stiff tariffs on goods manufactured overseas if they can be made just as easily over here.

Most importantly, we need to RAISE TAXES on those who benefit most from our social, legal, and physical infrastructure (large corporations and the financial whores). Yes, we do.

Does it matter? Walker will be governor for another four years regardless of his poll numbers.

Yes. This is bigger than Wisconsin.

The biggest poll was in November when the republicans took the Governorship and the state assembly. Seems the governor is just
doing what he said he’d do and the people back him by 7 to 3.

Seems the governor is just
doing what he said he’d do and the people back him by 7 to 3.

Seems you are wrong again. There was nothing in his campaign platform this drastic. Nothing. Zip.

It is a power grab, nothing more. Do some research on it before you say things that are not factual. Or show us an article that says he made clear that he was going to bust a union’s right to collective bargain during his campaign. You can’t because he didn’t. Period.

That you would support a bill that gives no-bid selling of assets is telling. Yea, you’re a real capitalist huh? Or does you political views trump capitalism?

90% of the polls say the people do not support this power grab.

That’s the part that gets me. Where is the Tea Party outrage over no-bid, behind-closed-door selling of public assets?

The poll is a sham.

There’s about 8 polls showing the public does not support this kind of power grab union busting crap.

It ain’t just one.

Ah yes let’s just govern by polls.

You should be very proud of youself salinasron.

That’s four straw man arguments in only 3 sentences!

In other words, it was skillful snark.

Now, it’s time to pay up, and Americans are starting to wake up to what’s been going on for the past ~30 years with deregulation, privatization, and trickle-down economics. It was all a scam to rape this country and its people

Observing what deregulation, privatization, and trickle-down economics have wrought is not an academic exercise. It is observable. This is not like we’re coming up with theories of what “might be” or what could happen.

It has happened. It is reality. The hiding place from its reality becomes more and more disclosed every day.

“Observing what deregulation, privatization, and trickle-down economics have wrought is not an academic exercise. It is observable.”

The cookie analogy was ridiculous.

The cookie analogy was fantastic and it was so good I’m going to repeat it with a slight tweak if I may..

A CEO, a union worker and a non-union worker are sitting at a table with 12 cookies. The CEO takes 10 cookies and gives each worker one cookie each.

Since 10 cookies are obviously not enough for a “producer” the CEO then breaks the non-union guy’s cookie in half and takes half leaving the non-union guy with half a cookie.

The CEO then points to the union guy’s whole cookie and says to the non-union guy, “Hey, what’s up with the greedy union bastard??”

Why is it ridiculous?

What’s ridiculous is that TBTF Fat Cats always get bailed outon our dime, while 50K per year teachers, who actually provide a service, are somehow expendable.

This has been bugging em for a few days now, after reading a bunch of posts on HBB:

Why shouldn’t teachers get 50-70K a year? It is a really hard job (half quit within 5 years), you need a minimum of 6 years college education, and educating the “masses” is just about the most important job in a democracy.

All you folks out there that believe we are overpaid: how little do you think is a decent wage for the job we do? 40K and no benefits? 30K? Minimum wage?

A couple of things to consider before answering: I do not know ANY teachers who work less than 10 hours a day, so quit trotting out the vacation stuff, and I’d like to see any of you teach and manage a classroom of 20-35 children for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. I dare you.

Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government. -Thomas Jefferson

Interesting article in the latest issue of the New Yorker about how the uprising in Egypt was really brought about by the educated classes - as the number of Egyptians that have gone to college has increased.

TPTB DO NOT want a well-educated populace.

The attack on teachers is well-orchestrated, is it not?

Oh, geez. Give it a rest. Our schools are becoming better known for social promotion, ritalin distribution and political indoctrination than they are for teaching kids.

So NYCboy, d’ya think privatizing the education system is going to fix that?

What exactly are you proposing?

…and, explain to me how a democracy can survive without public education.

“Our schools are becoming better known for social promotion, ritalin distribution and political indoctrination than they are for teaching kids.”

I guess paying teachers LESS will really help with that.

Has paying them more helped? Has approving every bonding they ever asked for helped? The system needs to be readdressed.

If you want the education system fixed, then try running and electing good people to your schools boards instead of morons.

Your local schools’ problems are your own fault because you have DIRECT, LOCAL CONTROL over your school boards.

Better yet, try running for school board.

“The cookie analogy was ridiculous.”

For how long have you been doing PR work for the financial services industry?

And it wasn’t the financial guy, who will sure take about twenty shares of cookies.

And 10% of any future cookies.

And pay less cookie tax than the people who made the cookies.

Yeah - they are both in the wrong and both need to be stopped.

Now - WHO MADE THE COOKIES?

Banana, did you even read the cookie parable. Out of 12 cookies, the union “share” was ONE cookie. The other 11 went to bonuses for the executives’ second yacht.

The “cookie parable” - HAHAHA

Is the goberment the Cookie Monster?

Who made the cookies?

The worker bees, both public and private, by the fruits of their labor. Those who “create, instead of living off the buying and selling of others.” — Wall Street, 1987.

Answer one question - who MADE the cookies”

the Chinese be careful they may have lead contamination

It’s hard to argue that when done correctly, teaching is a tough job and certainly not overpaid (with some exceptions). The problem seems to be that there’s no accountability. Our school systems generally suck so its hard to justify throwing more money at the same people and hoping it magically gets better. However, if you get rid of crappy teachers (regardless of tenure), I could get on board with paying higher salaries provided we get better educated kids. But the current relationship between public unions and the government that they negotiate their contracts with appears to have some major conflicts of interest and doesn’t appear to be capable of improving the results.

I agree good teachers should be paid more. I’d even be willing to pay higher taxes to do so and I don’t have any kids of my own. I just don’t think the current system is the way to get there. It appears to address the pay side, but doesn’t do anything meaningful to improve the results.

If it was a US made cookie, it was the government union guy who made sure there wasn’t any melamine used in making the cookie and that the CEO didn’t require the guy who put took the cookies out of the oven to do it without a pot holder (because safety equipment is for wimps) and that the oven didn’t explode.

Comment by 2banana
2011-03-01 09:02:11
Yeah - they are both in the wrong and both need to be stopped.

Now - WHO MADE THE COOKIES?
————————-

The government/public sector workers provided the oven, and the private sector workers made the cookie dough. The CEO is the one who took the 10 cookies and sold them for a profit…and then took that money to China to set up a cookie factory, complete with toxic ingredients, massive pollution, and slave labor.

Any further questions?

In case you didn’t get it, banana, the government provides the social, physical, and legal infrastructure that enables “private businesses” to do business and make a profit.

“…who MADE the cookies…”

Twas the Fed that printed them, no?

A local radio show’s commentary about the Somali pirates last week”

“If I were a poor Somali, and some millionaire showed up throwing Bibles at me from his yacht, I’d be tempted to become a pirate too.”

Those four were not killed because they were giving Bibles away.

But they were on a voyage to spread the word of Jesus.

From the deck of their 95ft yacht.

Thanks to the Corporate owned MSM, J6P has never heard of Lloyd or how he raped the country. Instead J6P is pissed at schoolteachers who are paid a “princely” 50K per year on average.

“I am all for accountability on Main Street but that will not fix every problem.”

Agreed.

Most of these problems are not caused by Main Street or by Mexicans, Chinese, Democrats, or Republicans.

Most of these problems are caused by the direct conflict between the Nation’s economy, finance, and well-being; and the parasitic privately held central bank known as the “Federal Reserve”.

The “Fed” is smothering, strangling, and crushing us every hour of every day. You can’t vote them out, you can’t hold them acccountable, and you can’t expect them to let up.

What we can do at this point, especially with the internet and other modern communication, is educate and unite ourselves, and isolate and expose them.

We’re more unanimous by the day.

Interesting, isn’t it, exeter.

We really want the same thing, but too many don’t realize where the power lies.

I recommend late 18th century French history.

How do you take someone’s money without theft or confiscation? Once the money is “taken back”, will we all get a check from the Take the Money Back Authority (TMBA), or will it be parsed out to the unions and community organizers like the so called stimulus?

How about prosecuting Wall St criminals, civil litigation to reclaim any money fraudulently acquired and dumping the politicians and regulators that allow Wall St to raid our treasury?

“How do you take someone’s money without theft or confiscation? ”

It’s done every day, nick. You do it by taxation that has been approved by majority vote. That’s how a democracy works.

Don’t like it? Change the Constitution, or leave.

But good luck finding a lower-tax country, much less a no-tax country, where it would be pleasant to live. Funny how that works, isn’t it?

The tax that is not authorized by a vote is that inflation thingy. I believe it has had a significant impact on some of us over the years.

“You do it by taxation”

Yes, but how will that benefit me or you if the money is pi$$ed away and given back to groups that help certain politicians get elected? Then, instead of Wall Street stealing from me, the Government is now the thief. Where is the improved infrastructure? Where is the high speed rail?

“Don’t like it? Change the Constitution, or leave.”

I love the Constitution and I love this country, I am not going anywhere. You’re stuck with me

how will that benefit me or you if the money is pi$$ed away

It would be hard to piss it away in a manner more damaging than the bubbles that the banksters blow when they have the money.

Money given in unemployment benefits goes into circulation very quickly, and boosts local economies and businesses. Money invested in infrastructure, energy efficiency , and alternative energy will pay off for years to come. You know, the long-term thingie.

It beats giving it to banksters to speculate on commodities.

I love the Constitution and I love this country,

You just think having to help pay for it is theft.

“You just think having to help pay for it is theft.”

I am a W2 employee, I pay plenty. I want to see something for my money, you know, like the Hoover Dam or a big shiny ballistic missile submarine

I will ask you one more time about your so called investments. Where is the improved infrastructure? Where is the high speed rail? Where is the money from the stimulus? I know the answer, it’s in Richard Trumka’s and Andy Stern’s pockets.

“I know the answer, it’s in Richard Trumka’s and Andy Stern’s pockets.”

Ha-ha-ha. Yes, all the stimulus money ended up in labor officials’ pockets.

I agree we should have put a lot more money into physical projects rather than the banksters’ pockets, which is most of it where it really ended up.

So why are Republican governors in states like Florida against high speed rail?

4) Take away pensions and health care benefits from every politician who voted for decreased benefits to unions over the last decade.

Good for the goose, good for the gander, no?

Taxes are real low out here in BFE. And it’s a right-to-work state, so nobody in the unions is getting rich either.

OTOH, 90% of the peons around here are making about $12/hr. Unless you are a Koch Brother.

Why are J6P salaries high in the NYC area? Maybe because the insanely compensated Wall Street Bankster class has run the price of living up on everything else?

Nobody is going to take a screw job voluntarily, until they are convinced that the money they give up isn’t going to go straight into the banksters pockets.

“Look at the gains by the public unions during the boom. Their salaries increased dramatically.”

I have remained silent on the whole union issue and think that it’s taking up too much of this board; however, would you have any data to support that claim?

I am non-union and making 25% less than I did 5 years ago and definitely don’t want my union neighbors making gains standing on my shoulders while I slide lower into the mud. I don’t wish ill on anyone, but misery does love company!

MrBubble

Google “labor union concessions”

On the left hand side toward the bottom, click “More Search Tool” Then click “Timeline”

Is that enough data?

Gains? How about just barely getting back what they gave up over the last 30 years.

Good for you, Mikey. We need open-minded people like you to lead us. I’m sure you have no agenda. Bwahahaha.

“Good for you, Mikey. We need open-minded people like you to lead us. I’m sure you have no agenda. Bwahahaha.”

Why thank you NYCityBoy.

That must be the nicest thing that you have said to anybody on this blog in the past few days.

Glad I could be there for you. Get yourself an Old Style and send me the bill.

Thanks, but don’t have time for beer today NYCityBoy,

We are much too busy forging fake Passports, voter ID’s and phony travel papers for the all of the outside agitators we’re sneaking across the borders into the Koch Kingdom of Wisconistan!

Thank you again for your updates, Mikey! We in California are with you guys 100%. Good luck!

By 1967, King had become the country’s most prominent opponent of the Vietnam War, and a staunch critic of overall U.S. foreign policy, which he deemed militaristic. In his “Beyond Vietnam” speech delivered at New York’s Riverside Church on April 4, 1967 King called the United States “the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.”

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2564.htm

I love how people, such as whyyoung, attempt to reduce MLK down to a soundbite “about the content of their character”. Do me a favor, why don’t you read the whole speech, especially the part of about how White America’s racism causes rage in the Black community, and get back to me.

Whyyoung

We Have achieved MLK goals….lets celebrate…..

Its not my fault that millions of kids make a personal choice today to be N, instead of black.

I try by not playing any music with the N word in it but i lose a lot of jobs that way.

“Its not my fault that millions of kids make a personal choice today to be N, instead of black.”

BOLD statement, now lets try and back it up with some evidence…

“We Have achieved MLK goals….lets celebrate…..”

According to who?!?

Everyone you talk to…..its real equality is here

its just that lots of blacks cannot or refuse to speak ENGLISH

That is the key….English….but they choose to be ghetto

“Everyone you talk to…”

Let me guess…every WHITE person you talk to, I forgot White people are the experts on everything, especially the behavior of Black people.

“its just that lots of blacks cannot or refuse to speak ENGLISH”

Lol, and the majority of White’s speak standard ENGLISH?!? GTOFOH!!!

GTOFOH!!!

What does the firs “O” stand for????

Where does Oprah live?

I think it is money that decides where anyone is going to live

Not in some NYC co-ops.

“I think it is money that decides where anyone is going to live. If one has the money he can live in Beverly Hills. If he doesn’t have any money he can live in a box under a bridge.”

Correct Combo.

Black people may EARN a lot of money, But we don’t MAKE any money worth having.

My friend went to Africa a while back when the new $100.00 bills had just come out. When he went to the bank, the clerk balked at giving him change, so they had to call the manager.

The manager came out and cleared everything up.

My friend said to the manager, “when the money has a picture of a white person on it, you know its good?”

The manager cracked a smile and said, “yeah”.

Look at it this way.

“Fiat Money” requires confidence right?

Now,

Who are the most confident people on the planet?

What is their confidence based on?

What is their CONfidence based on?

The Confidence-Man: His Masquerade by Herman Melville

I’m the first to admit that I may be missing something when it comes to racism in America. I was but an itch in my father’s pants during the 50’s and 60’s so I didn’t witness any of the history that created the current environment.

To me, it appears that at least some of what gets classified as racism is really classism. People generally don’t want to live in neighborhoods with people that are significantly poorer than themselves. The problem seems to arise from the fact that poor people are more likely to be black (as an example) than white and therefore black people are impacted more by this classism than white people are.

Taking that example further, I can also see how people conclude that the above is a result of racism as there is no question that hundreds of years of very clear racism in this country has put black people at a disadvantage. Even if the playing field has been leveled legally today (I’m sure some people will argue with that statement and I’d be interested to hear specific examples), hundreds of years of a very lopsided playing field means white children are much more likely to be born into a good economic situation than black children. Other than allowing lots of time to pass, I don’t know how that gets corrected.

MK,

I learn a lot from the people here; especially the white people.

I thank them.

Its all good.

If anybody gets any constructive info from me, Im glad to provide it as compensation for what I get from them.

Besides, everything is connected to everything else?

Where am I gonna go?

Spook, you are correct on all points. Keep dropping knowledge.

Where am I gonna go?

Not that it’s the exact same subject but since we’re talking about race and society’s and culture there is an interesting thing going on in Brazil. Many black men including many professional black men come to Brazil for sex but it is more than than just sex. Many articles and many Black Americans that I speak with find something is missing in their relationships in America.

Is Sex Better Abroad? More Professional African American Men Seek Sex in Brazil, Study Shows

http://www.blacknews.com/pr/jewelwoods101.html

Speaking with black men in cities nationwide, Woods found that many professional black men seek overseas what they are not getting in America and from professional black women. The majority of the men in the study were highly accomplished. Middle-range professionals were interviewed as well.

Woods is the “study behind the story” and is quoted in September’s Essence magazine in “Blame It on Rio.” The article investigates rumors of African American men traveling to Brazil for secret sex vacations.

“The study raises questions and concerns about the traditional belief systems of the black middle class, the black family, and the “sexual politics” between black men and women. It also raises questions about what is meant by a “good man” and brings new insight into issues of masculinity, morality and male privilege in the 21st Century,” said Woods.

The author of the forthcoming study “The New ‘Ugly American’: Professional Black Men, Sexual Paradise & Brazil,” Woods examines the implications for black men, black women and the black family. He also delves into African Americans’ relationship with the so-called Third World, an important point, especially with so many professional men participating in the Brazilian sex tourism industry.

In a different twist to the sexual innuendo of, “Once you go black you will never go back,” the impact of Brazilian women on the minds and imaginations of professional black men raises the issue “Once you go to Brazil, you will never come back…”

They aren’t the only ones. Any guy I’ve talked to who has spent time in Brazil says the same thing.

“You really ought not to be self-chained to such categorical inclusions”

OK.

The lunatic is on the grass
The lunatic is on the grass

Remembering games and daisy chains and laughs
Got to keep the loonies on the path

The lunatic is in the hall
The lunatics are in my hall

The paper holds their folded faces to the floor
And every day the paper boy brings more

And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill

And if your head explodes with dark forbodings too
I’ll see you on the dark side of the moon

The lunatic is in my head
The lunatic is in my head

You raise the blade, you make the change
You re-arrange me ’till I’m sane
You lock the door
And throw away the key
There’s someone in my head but it’s not me.
And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear
You shout and no one seems to hear
And if the band you’re in starts playing different tunes
I’ll see you on the dark side of the moon

See where “freebase-thinking” can lead…

I as a white person can’t totally understand the trials and tribulations of a oppressed and suppressed group of any other race ,or a group that has or had a unfair playing field .I can only try to understand it .

Increasingly Martin L.King and others are making sense to me .
Level playing fields are hard to define . If a person has 20
mountains to climb and another only has 3 mountains to climb ,who is going to win ,or if your already at the top of the mountain and have no mountains to climb ,you already win .

A Society like Egypt where the bulk of the people live in poverty with the Dictator living in lavish wealth stealing
70 billion from the Country is a example of people being put in their place ,usually at gun-point . Look at Mexico ,most of the money going to a small group while the people have to live with the corruption .

You have to walk in someones shoes to know what they are up against . Even psychological mountains have to be climbed ,so its not as easy as it looks .

I don’t know if something is a excuse ,or if it’s a real mountain that needs to be climbed .

Now if anybody understands what I just said ,more power to you .

if your already at the top of the mountain and have no mountains to climb ,you already win ??

Yep….The only thing left to do is buy more mountains…

Yep….The only thing left to do is buy more mountains…

…and have the shacks below you removed for ruining your view of the valley.

Racism is a gamed played the PTB to keep us divided. Remember, there’s only one game in town, The rich vs. everyone else.

As a white person, if you want a taste of it, try being poor and homeless.

Little known fact: the largest racial group of people living in poverty is still… whites.

“I learn a lot from the people here; especially the white people.”

I have trouble telling what color people are on this blog….. unless of course they put something like “spook” in there moniker and engage in race baiting. (Although spookwaffe has come a long way from when spook joined the blog). MK lose the chip on your shoulder… I don’t think this is the forum your looking for.

heh….. and it drives them bat$hit crazy.

sez the owner of Cobbers Construction, Inc.

I’d love to hear the details of the story, CT.

So would I CT. I fully understand how staff can often do things the bosses don’t know about.

Although that doesn’t say much for the much boss, does, it?

And in non-union shops lazy slobs get protection from being the boss’s relative, friend, mistress, etc.

Having worked in many a non-union environment, I can assure you that waste and laziness occur there, in the ‘free market’, too. And it can be just as, if not more, damaging and intractable.

I’ve never seen a job bank in a non-union shop.

In the private sector, the incompetents either get fired or promoted.

In the public sector, you can only promote them.

Yes, and EVERYONE here agrees that the UAW job bank was excessive. Quit using that example: it no longer exists.

As I said before, I’m more concerned with union members keeping the benefits they have, not demanding more and more stuff each year, as if they were private sector b*st*rds who demand more and more profit every year.

It does still exist. Where did you get the information that it doesn’t?

The fact that they’ve cut back on the job bank doesn’t excuse anything at all.

I’ve never heard of a “job bank” in the public sector. Care to inform us?

DH’s co-worker just built a new house after selling the previous one to a Chinese investor who bought it “sight unseen”.

It makes sense, sort of. They’ve built ghost-cities in China on spec, they’d be crazy not to ’snap up’ some inventory here.

I’ve long been hearing, from multiple sources, about the Chinese buying up lots of our real estate — bulk purchase from banks, REO auctions, etc.

They are HEAVILY invested in our country, IMHO.

As someone living in one of the top five cities, I can verify this.

We now produce 40% of our use ??

And guess who easily uses the most…The Military…

Andy, oil has been consistantly above $35 barrel since the middle of 2004. Most of the time substantially above $35 like $80+. Sorry, I don’t buy that argument. If there’s money to be made, which is clearly that case if you can produce oil @ $35, then somebody would be doing it by now.
From what I have been reading (and I read a lot about the topic) it takes upward of $60 to produce tar sands and deep water. Fracking is less expensive if you have the right geology in place .Exploiting marginal reserves also has some nasty feedback, as energy prices rise so does the cost of production.
Google EROEI, in case you don’t know what that means. In a nutshell, producing marginal reserves yields smaller net energy gains. An example is enthanol where the net energy gain is near zero.

In a nutshell, producing marginal reserves yields smaller net energy gains. An example is enthanol where the net energy gain is near zero.

Ethanol is a net energy negative. It takes more energy to produce that it releases when
burned, plus it doesn’t have the same energy
content as gasoline or diesel, giving you a net
loss on mileage.

I was doing some work for an Albertan company that extracts oil from tar sands a little over 10 years ago. Their belief then was that it would take oil at $24-26/barrel to make tar sands profitable. The price was around $20 at the time and they expected it to shoot up so they were just getting started. It would all need to be adjusted for inflation now, of course.

The great thing about extracting oil from tar sands is how it horribly pollutes another limited resource: water.

Shell has proven it at $35.

I find it hard to believe that there is plenty of oil that is easy to access. If it is why are there expensive oil drilling platforms in the gulf and why are Mexico’s production and exports falling? Why invade the middle east when there is plenty of oil to spare in the “oil patch”?

Those expensive platforms are still pulling in oil at $15 to $25 per barrel. Relatively cheap…just not easy.

Now, I don’t want to get into a p1ssing contest here Ben, especially since it’s your blog. However, I will address some of your points.

“Or you could be wrong, and there isn’t any shortage of oil.”
I could be. My background is in minerals and environmental systems science (sort of schizophrenic, I know) and not petroleum geology specifically. I am not saying that we are running out of oil, but all the data show that major finds of “easy oil” have ceased and that EROEI is dropping.

“I grew up in the oil patch and we found oil as long as we drilled for it.”
That sounds like the “it’s snowing at my house therefore global climate change is bunk” argument. Perhaps, I’m mis-reading. It’s not your little wildcat rig that can crank out billions of bbl/day. Those whales are not being discovered any longer. It’s 4D seismic representation and supercritical CO2 extraction these days. ANWR and “drill baby drill” is just not going to cover the shortfall either.

“The domestic oil industry was practically wiped out by the same corporations that now sell us oil at $100/barrel. And when the higher price stimulates production elsewhere, they drive it back down again.”
I agreed that the price can/is and has been manipulated. No argument there.

“Peak oil is about as accurate as peak diamonds, IMO.”
There is no shortage of diamonds, especially with the Candian supply. Really cool story if you’re a dork like me. That said, the geological processes and provenance of diamonds and oil are quite distinct, as you know from growing up near an oil patch and not in Africa or Siberia, two diamond rich areas.

“How long have we heard this line, 40 years?”
A while, but it doesn’t mean that Hubbert was wrong. We’ve pretty much high-graded everything from Titusville and East Texas all the way down to horizontal drilling in thousands of feet of water and sediments. Those huge, easy SA deposits in karsts just aren’t being discovered anymore.

“Are we running out of crushed dinosaurs?” I know that you are joking and know how oil is made, so I won’t whine about this!

Thanks for the response.
MrBubble

Corollary: there are plenty of morons with PhDs.

Corollary: there are plenty of morons with PhDs.

True, dat.

BTW, A Ph.D.-holding relative has enjoyed regaling me with this nugget: “A Ph.D. is no substitute for common sense.”

“A Ph.D. is no substitute for common sense.”

A PhD is more typically a substitute than a complement for common sense.

“Everybody has their theory. For instance, how did Wall Street fraud cause China’s housing bubble?”

It’s the same greed regardless of street.

‘the same greed’

Greed is probably the root of all financial manias. Like I said in Vegas, the tulip bubble didn’t come about because they really liked tulips.

But isn’t greed always present? And wouldn’t wicked people commit fraud every day of the week? The question is this global mania; one of the largest events in human history. Think about how rare something this large and widespread is; it’s practically unique! To boil it down to the actions of a handful of corporations is overly simplistic, I think.

And the mountain of debt behind that is also rare.

“But isn’t greed always present? And wouldn’t wicked people commit fraud every day of the week?”

Precisely why we need strict regulation of our financial markets.

Regulations are made in a time of sobriety only to be disposed of in a time of mania. It’s part of the manic dynamic. We’ll get more rules, but they will be discarded in 80 years.

I agree there is a cycle, Blue Skye, mainly involving everyone dying off who remembers the last bust. But that doesn’t justify not implementing reguations now, right after a bust.

Aren’t we due our 80 years of regulation and recovery? At least until we pay off the most recent looting by the wealthy?

“FBs didn’t have to really know all that much; …”

Everything I needed to know I learned from SNL …..don’t buy stuff you can’t afford!

The question is this global mania; one of the largest events in human history. Think about how rare something this large and widespread is; it’s practically unique! ”

I remember people telling me in whispers “you won’t believe the kind of loans you can get now”

Then I read that a few on wall street concocted these suicide loans so they could bet against them, even buying the equity tranches to keep it going.

Where was the news reporting that should ferret this big con-job out ? All fine we hear the story afterwards.

Commodities Modernization Act and the Gramm/Leach Act.

“…how did Wall Street fraud cause China’s housing bubble?”

If only I had been a fly on the wall during Big Hank’s many visits to China, perhaps I would have an answer for you.

“Buying a house isn’t all that much different than buying anything else. Either the buyer can afford it or he can’t.”

What about the buyer who could afford it when they were buying? They had 20% to put down and more than enough income to support the mortgage payment. What if that same buyer when the income ran out kept paying until their savings was drained to $0?

If the buyer’s income runs out then he loses the house.

But this is true of anything one buys on a payment plan.

Yes, but you shift much of the burden on the buyers and in many cases you’re right. You’re also right on those who took cash out refi’s. But there is a reasonable sized minority (myself included) who did everything right and still got burned. Luckily I didn’t saddle myself with more debt to try to hold onto the “dream” as many others I’ve met have.

Mortgages are measured in years, incomes are measured in paychecks.

FBs didn’t have to really know all that much; All they needed to know was if they could afford to pay for the house they were commiting to or not.

“Afford it”. Think about this:

Every buyer who bought a home during the bubble “could afford it”. Every one. Even the ones who bought with fraud could “afford it” in the sphere of the system in place.

The strawberry picker who bought the $700K house in California obviously “could afford” it. If he couldn’t afford it how did he get the loan?

In the financing system that existed at the time, every buyer could afford every home bought.

Now who’s fault was it that they “could afford it”?

Wall Street can turn Main Street into speculators with leverage. ,All they have to do is give them money without qualifying for it and breach their duty to prevent fraud when the people go into
mania psychology and are willing to submit fraud packages just so they can get on the mania bandwagon .

How did something like a house ,simply a need for shelter, ,become what commanded that kind of price . Not really a issue of not having enough units . Hell at some point in the housing boom people were buying many houses and second homes and
they were building entire projects for the speculators to flip ,without end-user needs in mind ,or any thought that local incomes could not sustain these prices .

The stock market value of stocks in 1929 were not worth the value ,evident by the crash in Oct 1929 . One thing I have noticed about bubbles ,it has nothing to do with true worth
of the product .

The value of real estate became the value of something that
could be flipped at a profit to a greater fool or a tool to extract fake equity funds based on that false value .

Giving long term loans on short term speculation is crazy . If you don’t qualify for the loan long term than why did you get the loan .

Everybody looks at the easy money people where making and they wanted to get in on the bandwagon ,or they were lured in by if you don’t buy you will be priced out forever (that’s the fear sale ).When they ran out of those fools they went for straw buyers ,dead people ,cash back fraud ,incentives ,
strawberry pickers buying 700 k houses ,and they even got the illegals into the speculation ,anything to just keep that Ponzi scheme going that created this false wealth .

No regard for the risk of the short term speculator buying on a low down loans who didn’t qualify long term . Not even a regard for if the properties rent value
covered the mortgage .

This is simply fraudulent lending ,refusal to rate the risk .
And when it started to crash they say they needed to re=price risk as if they even priced it to begin with .

They would not of got the money to lend had they priced risk accordingly .Do investors usually invest in risk that has a 100% chance of losing their principal by 50% ,or do investors generally invest in a product where fraud is involved in the qualifying process …..no not usually would they want to .and they certainly wouldn’t be getting the low rate to take that kind of risk . Add to all this that the Government had a policy of letting the Lenders regulated themselves and Greenspan keeping the rates to low for to long and disaster .

I have come to the conclusion that Government isn’t in touch
with how one hand is playing the other hand . You have one regulatory body not knowing what the other regulatory body is doing and they don’t converse with each other . In spite of
the lending affecting the SEC and FDIC ,those two bodies had different agendas and different departments.

Like Ben said it was a confluence of factors that set the stage for this financial disaster . Even the new tax law factor
of allowing 500k for a couple to avoid capital gains every two years played into raising the value of real estate . Goes to show you how tax policy can affect things .Now all of a sudden the real estate shills sell real estate as a 2 year investment of tax free gains . That in itself raises the value by at least 30% or more .It made for a great sales pitch.

All this housing Ponzi scheme did was create fake wealth and
give a fake wealth effect for about 8 years and kicked our real problems down the road . Was it worth it .

The strawberry picker thought he could afford it for about six months, and made his calculations based on that.*

The bank thought the strawberry picker could afford it for 30 YEARS, and made his calculations based on that.

Both made the calculation that if for some reason the picker had to move, the house could be sold to cover the expenses.

All of the calculations were wrong.

oxide ……That’s just it oxide ,how do you get away with
the bottom line that real estate always goes up as grounds for qualifying people . Speculation can project that something might go up ,but lending/appraisal isn’t based on a projection that the security for a loan will go up ,its based on the person qualifying for the loan in the present and the current value of the house ,not the future projected value .

Otherwise lenders historically would of made loans of 200
% over value because the property will eventually reach that value someday ,maybe .Or say ,I’m going to charge you 5 k for that chair that worth one thousand ,not because its worth 5 thousand now but it will be worth that in 30 years .

PONZI SCHEME .

They also worked closely with Iran selling them weapons to fight Iraq. Google Oliver North and Iran and contras

Oh yes. Reagan almost got impeached for that. Good thing he wasn’t fondling his secretary or he would have.

Why no mention of the corrupt, murderous Israeli govt in this conversation?

Isn’t it amazing that white, “Christian” Germany butchered 6 million human beings but according to the US/Israeli Govt, the culprit is _____ (fill in the blank with your favorite boogey man like an iranian or saudi citizen or a muslim).

But, but, removing Pahlavi in favor of the Ayatolla Khomani was what the nascent Iranian democracy wanted…in fact our boy Amadinajad was one of the ringleaders of the revolution. Just like Sadaam was in Iraq.

Funny how that blowback thing works when you stop paying your puppets.

We are still paying the price for over throwing the Iran’s democratic government in the 50’s.

Not in Yemen.

“Got water?”

The weak economy here in the Centennial state has its silver lining: immigration to Colorado has slowed to a trickle, much to the chagrin of the builder boyz but much to the relief of those of us who value a liveable town, cheap, good tasting water and other niceties. The leaders of our little burb recently purchased enough new water rights to keep us fulfilled through 2050, assuming moderate growth.

All those unemployed kids gotta find something to do with their time. Especially if they don’t have an Xbox.

JMO, but chasing girls seems to me to be a lot more fun that playing video games, even if you lose. But I’m old fashiond that way…..

Out of water by 2025.

It will be really interesting to see if Brazil can pull off the miracle and truly enter the first world.

Let me let you in on a little secret. Brazil has entered the first world. About 20% of them but that’s almost 40 million people. (only 10 million less than the number of Americans without health insurance)

I’ve said many times, Brazil is a 1st world country and a third world country living side by side.

As X-GSfixr just said, Brazil sells a lot of jet airplanes to the USA. Brazil has the 8 largest economy in the world. BTW, I just came back from the Mac Store in Ipanema. That’s 1st world. Rio’s rich part of town has every amenity and the quality of goods and services as an American city.

Let me know when everyone there is buying the precious instead of selling it for cash.

Here’s another secret. If people are selling their gold, someone is buying it.

Brazil has improved to solid 2nd world and will be until the majority of the population has a standard of living similar to that enjoyed by first worlders. No secret that Brazil has improved tremedously. I do a lot of business with Brazil.

No secret that there is a buyer for every seller of the precious either, that is obvious. The general public is not buying, but selling, thus no bubble… yet.

AGain I seriously doubt any car beat the prius in around town driving.

With a hybrid how you drive makes a HUGE difference. If they were running the cars fast to the stop signs slamming on the breaks then you loose your regenerative braking advantage. If they weren’t sitting at the lights for long (ie a second vs normal) then they would loose some of the engine cut off advangage. If they gunned it off the line and drove fast they would loose some of the electric drive advantage. If they drove 90mph the advantage of the hybrid would be lost.

In Chicago stop and go traffic last year i got 60mpg in my wifes prius. We get 38-50 around town usually depending on the weather. There isn’t anything else that comes close. My civic hybrid has a lifetime average close to 50mpg 2/3 highway 1/3 city. My prior escort averaged a little over 30 on the same course and with same weather weather. That’s real world data. You should probably read up on some of the taxi drivers results that have gone hybrid.

Read about the costs to make a Prius, it is scary, the environmental damage alone from the batteries is enough to stop making them. Better for the environment to keep driving your old car if it burns clean.

That is like the post yesterday about low flow toilets.

The road to hell is paved with……….

1. Link?? Scary, really it’s scary Avodaco??? Let’s throw in some facts and debate before we jump right to “Scary!!”
2. Batteries will be recycled non issue.
3. Depends on the old car and the future price of gas how much driving you do etc. t. Depends on how the old car will be used. Again given future inflation and likely future oil shortages anything you can do now to reduce your need for energy in the future is better than money in the bank (it’s a massive hedge against inflation).

Most of the articles bashing hybrids are come from Exxon.

My wife and I have cut our fuel use in half by driving hybrids and an electric conversion. If everyone did this OPEC and Exxon would have a stroke.

Here is a comparison between the Peugeot RCZ and the Honda

In the UK driving cycle the CRZ hybrid got 56.6mpg UK vs 53.2 for the diesel.

In the AE’s test the RCZ returned 41.4 vs 39.5.
This was described as a mix of conditions as well as some “hot laps” on the test track.
In the city driving conservatively you can bet that the CRZ got sig better mpg.

1. The RCZ diesel cost 8k more than the hybrid. So sub a lithium battery for the NiMH and you would see the hybrid perform significantly better and still cost less.
2. This test was done by people who were pushing the car which negates a lot of the mpg benefits of a hybrid.

Still it’s closer than i would have thought. I wonder if it’s a difference in UK diesel vs US is pollution systems.
Diesel probably makes good sense for open road drivers and those who spend most of their time driving under a heavy load, ie up a mountain w the AC on. Around town hybrid wins.

Meatson:

I was going to say Google it. Easy to see why a Prius is worse than a Hummer.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.
All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer – the Prius’s arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles – the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist – ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available – a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage – buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

Still don’t know why the majority of trucks sold in the US aren’t diesel powered. The performance profile of most diesels (low RPM, high torque) matches the needs of most truck owners. And most of the truck owners I know would take the diesel. Especially if the fuel mileage was better.

Most of it has to do with the $3-4K premium you have to pay to get a diesel.

VW actually intends to bring the XL1 to market, albeit in a (very) limited run.

VW has us all covered

The XL1 boasts both a teeny two-cylinder diesel and a teeny plug-in electric engine–the diesel engine puts out 48hp and the electric only 27hp–Autocar liked the seven-speed dual-clutch transmission and the gull-wing doors, though wished the engine had a bit more oomph behind it.

The most impressive spec VW’s been circulating: An astronomical 261 MPG fuel efficiency

Note the reason diesels cost as much as they do in the US is pollution control and clean diesel tech.

at an affordable price ??

Bingo…Therein lies the solution to our oil consumption problem along with abandoning our world war II military mentality…

All hybrids are going to be niche vehicles, until they get much more efficient (and lightweight) batteries, at an affordable price.

I suspect some of this is happening but they will take off as gas prices rise to 4, 5,6, 8, 10 bucks a gallon.

Likely not. People who haven’t thought it through are wondering how they will get to the store, or to work. “Oh, I’ll just bike,” they blithely say.

Serious peak oilers are wondering how the FOOD will get to the store. They also know that there probably won’t be “getting to work” as we know it. Why do you think I keep harping on that Oil City plan and semi-homesteading? Except, the housing bubble and lack of jobs in less crowded parts of the country is kinda crampin’ my style, you know?

“Obama was a sitting senator who pushed for and voted for TARP??????”

Amazing how well those ex-Golden Sacks execs lie, innit? They don’t call him Hanky Panky Paulson for nothing.

Oxide–>“Obama was a sitting senator who pushed for and voted for TARP??????”

Amazing how well those ex-Golden Sacks execs lie, innit? They don’t call him Hanky Panky Paulson for nothing.”

you sayin Obama is a retard, dono what he is voting for?

As the Clint Eastwood character in The Unforgiven said
“fair’s got nothing to with it”.

Deserve.

f you read the story, people are smearing oil and lard on their fences to keep the hos from leaning on them for all hours of the day and night.

At last! Used motor oil has found a purpose!

I would think the hos would like being pre-lubed.

Ewwww!