Bits Bucket for March 6, 2011
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The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
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A huge share of the nation’s economic growth over the past 30 years has gone to the top one-hundredth of one percent, who now make an average of $27 million per household. The average income for the bottom 90 percent of us? $31,244.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/us/04indiana.html?_r=2&nl=us&emc=politicsemailema4
And before anyone says “The NYTs?!”, look at the charts’ sources.
Oops. WRONG LINK. But another good story anyway.
Here’s the correct link.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph
From what I have been seeing and hearing, the top one percent make a lot of that money off the bottom nine-nine percent because the bottom ninety-nine percent WILLINGLY send their hard-earned money to the top one percenters.
WILLINGLY!
Those on the bottom ninety-nine percent don’t bother to look into what they are doing, don’t bother to read what they are signing, complain when they get hosed but still they keep on doing business with the one percenters who are doing the hosing.
Not all the ninety-nine percenters do this but enough of them do and this enough to keep the one-percenters entrenched in the one percent position.
While driving yesterday I heard someone on the radio quote a study that said the majority of people winning the lottery or winning a court settlement of 10 million or less are totally broke in 5 years.
NBA and NFL has-beens also fall into this category. Why would lottery winners, or athletes, have a clue about preserving capital or investing wisely?
It’ all about the bling and trusting other losers with your $$$.
They make easy “marks” and “pigeons”.
True. Money, a sense of entitlement and an eighth grade education make a bad combination.
In some cases, the same holds true of large inheritances, but it depends a lot on how the kids were raised. You read stories of trust fund babies who seem to only have one skill, and that is spending money.
Well in my insight to one anecdotal trust fund situation, the father never once sat down w/the son to discuss how money worked even though the memory of the hours his father (the grandfather) sat down explaining the books to him was one of his most entrenched childhood memory. If your childhood is steeped in a don’t worry be happy mantra, it does take a bit to wake up and recognize reality. Is that the trust fund baby’s fault or all the hangers on and enablers who refuse to break the spell?
(I’m the spellbreaker in my story. Gheesh, someone had to do it.)
I’d love to have that talk with my son if I could just feel confident I’d gotten down to the last layer of the onion myself…
“only choice is don’t use a bank ,very difficult to operate outside the System”
Practically impossible not to use a bank if you are buying from online retailers. You can’t pay in cash, and if you pay with a CC, you’re dealing with a bank. If you pay via PayPall or e-check, you are, of course, dealing with a bank.
I think a lot of athletes and lottery winners are magnets for scam artists as well as being too free with their money.
Most everyone with money is a target for scam artists.
This is where I don’t blame the rich for being a little aloof and removed. But there is a difference between being pragmatic and arrogant.
Agreed. The rich have a little more practice weeding out the scamsters from the investment advisers than the suddenly rich and even then, they still get taken.
There it is! Anyone with any sense who suddenly came into ten million dollars shouldn’t have to look very far in this Information Age to discover that many people in similar circumstances before him have gone broke, and that he should learn whatever is that they did wrong and then decide to do something different.
How hard is that? Information has never been as readily available as it is now - just a few computer keystrokes will open up a vast amount of information on any subject - but people don’t seem to bother to look.
But the banksters lost billions, trillions really, and had to be bailed out by the gov (aka us peons).
So it’s not like they’re some deserving super-geniuses. All they did was buy our political system.
Now our system needs money, and they’re the only ones that have it. And they only have it because of the system.
So it’s time they joined us in our shared-sacrifice, and paid a reasonable tax-rate. They’ll still be rich.
There is information, and there is nature.
“There is information, and there is nature.”
Which means, what? that one is ruled by emotions rather than by logic?
I will agree with that, if this is what you mean. But there IS the matter of choice. One can choose to be ruled by logic rather than by emotions if one decides to put forth some effort.
That takes a lot of effort Combo, to think about stuff! Most people follow their programming, cause it’s easier.
‘the banksters lost billions, trillions really, and had to be bailed out by the gov (aka us peons)…’
You’ve sort of encapsulated the ‘banks caused every evil in the world’ thing, in one sentence.
I hear it used to justify anything and everything these days:
Why should I pay my bills, the banksters don’t? Balance the budget? Make the banksters pay! Global warming? The banksters are to blame!
This has been going on for a while, and I used to tell people here it wasn’t much more than whining. Why? Because it’s unfocused scapegoating, used more to absolve personal responsibility than enact change. There is a banking system that need to be reformed or eliminated, IMO. That’s the Federal Reserve system of banks. A lot of us have been calling for that for decades, and we are closer than ever.
But AIG, the GSEs, General Motors, aren’t in that system. You can thank Washington DC for these corporations being around. And the bill for keeping them alive into the future hasn’t even arrived yet. What are you doing to stop the govt. support of the GSEs? There are specific bills introduced all the time that would audit the Fed. There is a decision coming soon on the future of Fannie and Freddie. So be focused, and join the fight.
If all supermarkets raise prices ,the sheep willingly pay the
price . If all health insurance companies raise prices the
sheep willingly pay the price . If all utility companies raise prices the sheep willingly pay the price in the dead of Winter .If all gas goes up 3 dollars the users willingly pay the price . I don’t think there is a willing about it ,it’s forced .
The only time the “willing” is there is if you have many market choices and as the collective you have the power for real choice.
All Banks raise their fees together ,only choice is don’t use a bank ,very difficult to operate outside the “System”.
System raises taxes ,very difficult to get out of it without risking jail. Wall Street raises prices by speculation on food ,
very difficult to not eat when speculation drives up prices .
Housing bubble raises prices ,rents go up as a result ,very difficult to bring prices down on rents as a collective .
Congress votes on giving trillions to failed gamblers ,Majority says they don’t want bail outs ,Powers do it anyway .Groups take to the streets in protest ,laws against them get passed anyway . Majority has 2 parties that are both bought off by
special interest ,third parties are crushed .
Feds play with interest rates and liquidity injections ,difficult for collective to change the results of that .
There ain’t no “willing” about it . If collective get rid of current Politicians than new Politicians do what they want ,than years of bad law and policy ,than new group
of bad laws and policy when new group of bribed Politicians
comes in . Need to eliminate lobbying .
“That takes a lot of effort, Combo, to think about stuff!!”
Hey, we’re talking about ten million dollars here. How much effort would it take to EARN ten million dollars?
Combo:
It’’s scary out here most people are so DUMB they cant do these simple tasks
I have been posting on CL for radio show hosts for the internet station i work at, over 300 responses and the stupidty of the responses would astound you. Geez i have no experience no clue and I have to pay to use your studio?
Geez I have a 4 year communications degree, paid 4 years of student activity fees and never once used our college radio station, and you want me to pay you?
None can type into google how to be a radio talk show host….
Yes combo…our future generations will make good slave workers for the Chinese who will buy our assets on the cheap.
How hard is that? Information has never been as readily available as it is now - just a few computer keystrokes will open up a vast amount of information on any subject - but people don’t seem to bother to look.
That’s where the money is, Ben, in the hands of the super-wealthy, it hasn’t gone *poof*. And it’s only there because they benefit wildly from our system, and we as a people bailed them out when they screwed up. So if we need money, it’s a logical, reasonable, morally proper place to get it. We’re not talking about expropriation, we’re talking about higher marginal income and capital gains taxes. The rich will still be rich.
And I encourage everyone to follow the law, and behave responsibly when it comes to finance and economics, including the rich.
‘higher marginal income and capital gains taxes’
We are way past the point that these measures would solve much. You could take every penny from every millionaire in the US and it wouldn’t fix our financial situation.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t demand change. But almost every problem this country is facing today has been building for decades. It would take a radical shake-up of the current system to turn this around. Are you ready for that? Are your neighbors? Cuz what I see in this country are a majority that don’t like even small changes. That reject serious systemic reform as ‘crazy.’
I could give you a bunch of examples, but here’s just one: have you ever heard the entitlement programs called the ‘third rail’ of politics? It’s been that way for decades. But how can you have the largest financial time-bomb be off-limits to political discussion? Not reform, but if you even TALK about it, you’re politically dead!
That my friend, is an example of the absurdity that has gotten us here today.
“What are you doing to stop the govt. support of the GSEs? There are specific bills introduced all the time that would audit the Fed. There is a decision coming soon on the future of Fannie and Freddie. So be focused, and join the fight.”
Best advice offered on the HBB all year so far. Thank you.
“But the banksters lost billions, trillions really, and had to be bailed out by the gov (aka us peons).”
You mean the “top talent”, right? Those are the guys we had to let have those huge bonuses or they might have left the industry.
The top 1% own 35% of the national wealth
and according to wikipedia national wealth is 54 trillion.
Thus taxing all of the top 1% wealth would indeed make a big dent in our 14trillion national debt.
Not that I advocate this, but the wall street CEO Hedge Fund Manager set need to get taxed at income tax rates. Capital gains and dividends should be taxed heavier for the top.
“…have you ever heard the entitlement programs called the ‘third rail’ of politics?”
Done correctly, fixing this ‘third rail’ should be a piece of cake, and would involve some combination of the following:
1) Raise the Social Security wage base so the top 1% pay a larger share of the cost to provide an OASDI safety net.
2) Restore OASDI (Old-age, Survivors and Disability Insurance) to its intended purpose as an insurance program, not as a windfall intergenerational transfer program to pay for geezers’ Winnebagos out of working families’ pay checks.
This could be achieved by indexing the age for eligibility to receive full retirement benefits to current population life expectancy (note that back in 1935, when the program was set up, life expectancy was about 65, and hence the Social Security pension truly was insurance against Old Age). So if life expetancy is now, say, 78.4 years, those taking Social Security starting at this age would receive their full benefits and those younger than this age would be eligible for an actuarially equivalent (reduced) Social Security pension.
Note that the move to increase the Social Security retirement age has already started, but by adjusting the full retirement age to the (current) life expectancy the above would offer a permanent fix.
3) Some combination of a phase-in period and a grandfathering of status quo benefits would be needed to ease passage.
Raising the Social Security wage base would also entail raising the maximum payout wouldn’t it?
There is a banking system that need to be reformed or eliminated, IMO. That’s the Federal Reserve system of banks. A lot of us have been calling for that for decades, and we are closer than ever.
Ron Paul has been the lone voice in the wilderness calling for the end of the gargantuan fractional reserve swindle that is the Federal Reserve and its Primary Dealer bankster accomplices. However, the Fed-Bankster looting syndicate will continue to operate with impunity as long as 95% of the electorate continue to participate in Wall Street’s Republicrat puppet show instead of voting for REAL change, not “Change Goldman Sachs can believe in.” Sadly, we have become a nation of imbeciles.
“So if life expetancy is now, say, 78.4 years, those taking Social Security starting at this age would receive their full benefits and those younger than this age would be eligible for an actuarially equivalent (reduced) Social Security pension.”
I fully intend to keep working for many years into my 70s and beyond, but circumstances beyond my control could conspire against me. As I age, employers are less likely to offer me jobs and the range of jobs I can do declines.
For example, 10 years ago, I could safely lift 65 pounds. To my dismay, I have recently found out that I can no longer safely lift more than 35-40 pounds. Due deterioration in my knee joints, I ask my back to do more of the lifting. This eliminates many retail jobs from my list. In 20 years, I may be incapable of being a Walmart greeter.
I have concluded that I will have to make my living with my brain. If age-related dementia or a stroke catches up with me before 78.4 years, under the scenario above, I could be in trouble. If my employer decides that my performance has declined and I need to be replaced with someone younger, I could also be out of luck.
I am more fortunate than most, because I have good genetics and a career that I can expect to pursue into late old age.
Now consider the retail worker, mechanic, plumber, carpenter, and other workers who have relied more on their body to earn their living. What will they be capable of doing in the years between 68 and 78? Will they have been able to save to supplement SS or will they have had to tap their savings to cover periods of unemployment? Do we care or should we just write them off?
Is SS solvent if more boomers die earlier than their parents did? Eliminating Medicare may solve 2 problems.
“And I encourage everyone to follow the law, and behave responsibly when it comes to finance and economics, including the rich.”
What are you? Some kind of commie?
Since Gen Y and X outnumber Boomers, I’m failing to see a problem with SS.
We are being sold smoke and mirrors again and we’re going to eff ourselves… again.
Wall St. wants that money and they have been relentlessly hammering the message that SS will be broke… since 1981.
Yet gen y and x outnumber boomers.
“Raising the Social Security wage base would also entail raising the maximum payout wouldn’t it?”
It seems like this is a separate issue, though possibly worth considering as a deal sweetener to get the Superrich to chip in a bigger share…
“I fully intend to keep working for many years into my 70s and beyond, but circumstances beyond my control could conspire against me.”
Sounds like a good reason to have Old Age, Survivors and Disability Insurance in place.
“I am more fortunate than most, because I have good genetics and a career that I can expect to pursue into late old age.”
Same here. I hope to be one of the workers subsidizing others’ (earlier) old age retirements, though I don’t particularly want to fund others’ Winnebago purchases (now or later). Paying a 15.3% FICA tax rate on my wages since 1983, I am pretty sure I have already purchased quite a few Winnebagos for others by now.
salinasron, that’s been an urban legend for as long as I can remember and simply not true.
You can Google the actual statistics.
As for radio, you might want to think twice about taking ANYTHING as fact from the radio:
http://www.tabletmag.com/life-and-religion/58759/radio-daze/
“Some callers to radio stations are paid actors.”
What I hear is they pay effective tax rates at 15%.
What I hear is they make massive money of no bid war contracts and other Gov handouts
What I hear is they manipulate the stock market and know what the FED is going to do before it does it.
What I hear is they manipulate prices with oligopoly and monopoly power
What I hear is they get massive bailouts
What I hear is they own the MSM and between that and gov are very good at convincing the masses to invest poorly
That just what I hear.
Eyes hear ya loud & clear meatson, over & out!
Totally with you, measton (and alpha, eco, etc.).
The money is in the hands of the wealthy, and low taxes have accelerated the wealth transfer from working people to “capitalists.” Time to reverse the trend.
Every McCain voter and every Obama voter sent the Kleptocrats a clear message in 2008: We the Sheeple will bend over for you on demand.
Don’t blame the plutocrats for taking them up on it.
plus 1.
Agree.
It’s their money according to some..
Bravo For George Buckley, A Righteous CEO
Obama is much like most other politicians today, who doubt that the wealthy or companies actually earn their wealth, or have an unmolested right to their property, or deserve full liberty to contract with their suppliers, employees, customers, or bankers. Government dictates in all these areas, the Obama regime only bit more than predecessors.
That Obama still has a “Pay Czar” is only one example of his prejudice against business. Also recall his anti-wealth animus when he fought to disenfranchise the “top 2%” of income-earners during the last tax debate, or his repeated and bigoted condemnations of corporate “greed” and banking “fat cats.”
That Obama is being disingenuous is clear from the avalanche of new regulations, controls and dictates now piling atop America’s businessmen, whether due to ObamaCare’s further socialization of the health care sector, or to Dodd-Frank’s scheme to further invade the financial sector, or to the EPA’s latest crusade against nearly every sector by calling CO2 a “pollutant.” In a recent editorial Obama conceded that “America’s free market has not only been the source of dazzling ideas and path-breaking products,” but also “the greatest force for prosperity the world has ever known.”
Yet he failed to add that this great image comes from the “Gilded Age” (1865-1913), the half-century when America’s economy was the freest it’s ever been, with no federal income tax, no central bank, few regulatory agencies, and federal spending that averaged a mere 3% of GDP (one-eighth of its current level). This was the golden age that Obama-like “progressives” despised and stifled, while reviling businessmen as “robber barons,” even as the “robbers” delivered stupendous gains in wealth, per-capita income and living standards.
http://blogs.forbes.com/richardsalsman/2011/03/02/bravo-for-george-buckley-a-righteous-ceo/
LOL. Now the Gilded Age is being presented to us as a ‘golden age’? Anybody read The Jungle?
The Rich elite will take anything and twist it around to suit their
PR campaigns that maintaining their power and opportunity to
increase profit margins while paying min taxes or no taxes is
correct policy . The Politicians/Feds allowed them to keep their
bubble gains by bail outs and Fed Policy while leaving the working class sector in ruins .
The powerful or rich would be nothing without the working class ,the very people that produce their products and buy their
products .
The powerful rich act like they can take all the gains that the
working class has made for 100 years and crush it ,while they get increased gains and the Majority gets to pay for their gambling losses . The government coffers are there to serve the rich ,not the entire bee-hive .They don’t care if they throw millions into poverty and put that burden on the government ,its all about the World is their Oyster and everyone is to serve their purpose .
My favorite part in the Jungle is the description the formaldehyde in the milk to keep it from spoiling.
Capitalism at its best!
To be honest, this article is so perfectly constructed and contains such a high density of talking points, that I originally thought this editorial was written by The Onion.
Did I NOT say that we are racing to get back to 19th century?
Looks like we are nearing the end of The Road to Serfdom.
“A huge share of the nation’s economic growth over the past 30 years has gone to the top one-hundredth of one percent…”
As always, there is a silver lining. In this case it is that real estate investors are going to get the full Joshua Tree suppository before this is over, as there simply is not a base of qualified buyers to purchase homes at anywhere near the prices these greatest fools expect to see based on pre-2006 sale prices.
Biggest problem with a system that enables the Superrich to systemically rob the Lilliputians: A wide spread perception that the game is rigged tends to kill motivation for golden-egg-layin’ geese from the middle of the income distribution to produce any more eggs. Eventually there is no base of wealth left to prop up the false prosperity of the residents of Upper Richistan, and the whole system collapses.
Check out Egypt, Libya, etc for current examples of where this leads.
Richistan: A Journey Through the American Wealth Boom and the Lives of the New Rich
Robert Frank
Buy new: $13.95 $9.05
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And this is why we are seeing so much fraud at all levels these days. It has been made perfectly clear that the wealthy only get there by gaming the system and stripping wealth from the working class. There is no more reason for people to “labor” for their money.
We are at the point now where nobody wants to be the loser, so nobody wants to be the worker, as labor is described as “lazy” and “entitled.” The wealthy (who earn the vast majority of their wealth from the labor of others) believe the money they have is rightfully theirs. We are getting to the point that everyone now wants to be a “capitalist” because the odds are so in their favor. But what happens when everyone becomes a “capitalist” and there are no more laborers?
“…and lastly weren’t stuck in one place, unable to go where the job was because YOU DIDN’T HAVE TO WAIT TO SELL THE ALBATROSS YOU ONCE CALLED YOUR HOME.”
(Response to commentator blaming income inequality in America on those who sit about whining rather than “rolling up your sleeves and getting to work.”)
What if we have a society of cricumstance-subsidized squatters afraid to leave the free nest complete with UE benefits ? Paralyzed by financial fear, unable to boldly strike out into the unknown.
Under your scenario, it seems like both the labor market and the housing market would chill down to a level of liquidity best described as permafrost.
Not to suggest that we could ever reach that state here in ‘Merika…
I’ve “boldly struck out into the unknown” and you now what? It’s nowhere NEAR what it’s cracked up to be.
In fact, most of the time, you WILL be worse off.
Because you can’t have it both ways. Should people be rational and analyze a situation and then implement a solution or they should “boldly strike off into the unknown?” Because most people really do want a solution. But high unemployment and poor economic conditions don’t offer any solutions, do they?
Damned if they do and damned if don’t, eh?
Did you get your refund? Of course you didn’t.
http://www.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110306/ap_on_re_us/us_airline_price_fixing
Developer eff it up. Again.
“A stalled luxury condo-retail project in Skaneateles with a long list of unpaid bills to contractors appears to be headed toward foreclosure.
A Boston bank is seeking to foreclose on the Seitz Building, built in 1822 at the corner of West Genesee and Jordan streets in the heart of the village. In court papers, First Trade Union Bank says the owner of the three-story building has defaulted on a $5 million loan.”
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/03/skaneateles_historic_building.html
Hey Muggy-
I’ve always had trouble with the pronounciation of “Skaneateles”.
If I say “skinny-altas” real fast is that close?
Next question- who is more stupid, the developer of a “luxury condo-retail project in Skaneateles” or the Boston banker that made the construction loan? Discuss.
“Skinny Atlas” is how it is spoken 99% of the time. I’ve heard some locals there say, “Skanny Atlas,” very subtly. It is considered good manners if you laugh your face off when someone says, “skuh-needle-less.”
BTW, my in-laws place there is under contract at $85/sq. ft. and is scheduled to close in a month. We just bought tix for my wife to fly up and help her mom out. I’ve never been attached to houses much, but I will miss that place. It was the center of the universe for many circles of friends and families. There was always somebody crashing on the couch, myself included. I loved that place.
How about “Ska-ne-uh-teals?”
First Trade Union Bank has been popping up in more than a few foreclosures around here…
Boston-based First Trade was one of the fastest-growing banks in New England until earlier this year when the Office of Thrift Supervision, a federal regulator, found insufficient capital and an elevated level of higher-risk loans on the lender’s books. A recently made public supervisory agreement between the bank and the OTS restricts lending and requires First Trade to tighten underwriting.
Butler said the agreement puts a cautionary flag over the bank’s growth plans but will make First Trade a better bank in the long run.
Before the OTS stepped in, First Trade’s assets surged 50 percent to $750 million during the 12 months ending June 30. Net loans surged 33 percent and deposits soared 65 percent during that time.
A June 29 bank exam by the OTS, however, concluded ineffective loan underwriting put First Trade at risk of being overwhelmed by losses on residential mortgages, commercial real estate and construction lend. …
http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2010/02/15/story3.html
TAG Mechanical, a Syracuse residential and commercial heating and air conditioning contractor, has a lien against the Seitz Building for $87,229.
Steven Tallman, president of TAG, said he thinks the project was based on condo prices unrealistic for the local market.
“I don’t understand how the bank let it get out of hand,” Tallman said. “Unless someone comes along with a life preserver, we are left holding the bag.”
I don’t know if I agree w/Mr. Tallman that it was obvious Skaneateles couldn’t sell 10 housing units at a $500k price. I’d tend to think the problem would be $500k for a home where there is limited parking and no outdoor entertainment area. Who owns and pays taxes on a $500k home in CNY and doesn’t intend to have the means to show it off? (entertain) Ok there are some but you have severely limited your market w/the location.
I was also thinking that developer must’ve gone to the same school as Bob Congel who owns one of the largest homes on Skaneateles Lake and is responsible for the Destiny USA debacle. The vendors are the ones left holding the bag, that don’t get paid. That project has been downgraded to a metal box plunked in front of the old mall which has nothing in it. Destiny has sued Citibank to continue receiving construction loans yet they have NO TENANTS signed. And yes, Congel does get tax breaks for this project which were tied to site clean up.
OB: Yes, Skinny-atlas is how many of the born and bred locals pronounce it. Although the newscasters say Scannyatlas.
“OB: Yes, Skinny-atlas is how many of the born and bred locals pronounce it. Although the newscasters say Scannyatlas”
Lol, I just typed the same thing. I’ve repeated this here at HBB for years, but if I had the choice, I would live and die in Skaneateles.
I might have mentioned before every time we drive through the town my young daughter holds her breath and says Mom I want to live here. It reminds me a lot of my hometown so I like it too.
DH’s family has several ties there themselves. That’s an interesting analogy. In laws Syracuse friends made success stories & moved to Skaneateles. My husband’s friends made success stories and moved to London, Boston, California, Colorado via NYC, Maryland, DC, etc, etc. (anywhere but CNY)
You know we were there for the Christmas Carol weekend 2 years ago and an attractive young couple asked to take our family’s photo in front of the lake so I could get in the picture. I had the weirdest feeling at that moment. Wanted to ask the young man if he was “Muggy”. Just a thought. The couple asked if we were out of state tourists because my husband was wearing his favorite cowboy hat for the occasion.
ca renter says: ““I addressed this theory yesterday, and brought data that showed there is NO evidence that a limited govt and limited (low) taxation leads to”
lets try this again, you brought the data, it showed no evidence and you take that as proof?
proving a negative (arguably) can’t be done, yet you claim to have done so with limited data. it just doesn’t hold water.
Have you ever come up with a modern-day example of a low-tax, small-government country that is thriving and a pleasant place to live? (That isn’t a tiny, colonial, nation-of-convenience?)
you keep asking and as you get responses you ad conditions.
modern day
thriving,
pleasant
not tiny,
not colonial,
not nation of convenience
seems a silly exercise. of course no such place exists mainly due to modern trends towards big govt, socialism as well as long standing dictatorships.
i think we all know the best example of what you are asking for is the united states. several have pointed this out but you reject it as not being modern day, like modern day is a requirement to demonstrate the point.
you (your group) also rejects early america with claims of people dying in the streets, your question cannot be satisfied.
I clearly see that as america moves away from the constraints of its constitution and becomes a nation of unlimited govt and high taxes that our freedoms and opportunities become restricted.
your question makes me think that we have china and the former soviet union as demonstrations of the other extreme. 2 countries that murdered about 100,000,000 of their own people.
i’ll take the limited govt of enumerated powers set up by our founding fathers (if i get a choice)
“i’ll take the limited govt of enumerated powers set up by our founding fathers (if i get a choice)”
So will I. That’s why I fight against your Kochtopus.
Don’t mistake government by the rich, for the rich, as what America was founded on.
“of course no such place exists mainly due to modern trends towards big govt, socialism as well as long standing dictatorships.”
Seems like the modern trend is towards democracy. Apparently people all over the world are fed up with their kleptocracies. I can see why the Kochs are worried, and are working feverishly to rile up their own base- the Basij, er- I mean- the TeaKoch Partiers.
“i’ll take the limited govt of enumerated powers set up by our founding fathers (if i get a choice)”
Please count me in as well.
Count me in. I don’t want the type of government that CA wants or Alpha wants. It has been tried in the former iron curtain.
CA and Alpha are not advocating for the failed solutions tried in the former iron curtain countries.
They want just a little more regulation of the capitalist structure, more like Germany and Sweden.
Do you really want corporations to be able to pollute our environment with impunity? Do you really want ungoverned financial markets like we had in the bubble years?
If the answers to the above are no, then we are really talking about what is the right balance between regulation and freedom.
It’s no use, alpha. ALL low-tax small-government countries — both ancient and modern — are thriving and pleasant places to live…if you are rich.
Charlie Tango is likely rich (or is either brainwashed or paid to post here by somebody who is rich), and therefore the philosophy actually does work for him. Whether or not the country is a pleasant place to live for the rest of the population — you know, those millions of people who didn’t make it into the textbooks — well that doesn’t matter because they don’t exist. The state of the rich is the only yardstick that the brainwashed understand.
I know it’s hard to convince a man of something when his paycheck requires him to believe something else. I just think it’s fun to occasionally force the ‘minimal government’, ‘no regulation’ types to realize (if not acknowledge) that it’s they who have the unrealistic, idealistic political philosophy- because they always tout it as the ‘common sense’, ‘real world’ position. Which it isn’t. It’s a fantasy construct, designed by and for the rich, and their dupes and propagandists.
I believe in minimal government. I saw a pie chart this morning showing that military spending was something like 48%. I think it included items like the bloated spy complex. Anyway, that’s a too dang much. Why not chop all that bloat? What’s wrong with that? I’m so sick of the military/spy/foreign aid shakedown.
Here’s a pie chart showing major federal spending categories for 2011.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget
Medicare & medicaid 23%
Social Security 20%
Defense 20%
Discretionary 19%
Other mandatory 12%
Net interest on the debt 6%
It would be interesting to know what falls in that “discretionary” category.
“Discretionary” brings up images of mad money for the mall, but it’s kind of a misnomer here. That 19% is where most of the executive branch Agencies are funded, everything from the Department of Education to the National Parks to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
Whether or not the National Parks are mad money is another debate.
I think the military budget is now over 700-bil isn’t it ?? Then ad in the cost of “his” selective wars and all of our over-sea’s bases that fund foreign local economies….
You want to cut ?? Start right there….
This is probably true thanks to central banks and paper money.
Youze guys are rich beyond imagination compared to billions of people in other places. Yet you rail against those who have just a bit more, plotting how to get it away from them. Ignorant and uncaring of the hordes behind you. It’s amazing!
We’re rationally looking for much-needed funding for our system. The rich alone have prospered mightily in recent decades, and they are paying less taxes than ever before. Therefore, that’s a logical, reasonable place to look for funding.
We’re a ‘horde’ of rationalists and true conservatives, asking for a little shared sacrifice for the system, from those who have most benefited from the system.
The rich will still be rich.
Yes, OK, but that will not solve our underlying problem. Keeping the game going with everybody just paying a little more dues does not satisfy. Change the game. Weed out the thieves. They are in the rich group, and in the not so rich group. And stop spending more than you have!
The reason the lower classes are fighting the rich this time is that the results of the long-standing heists have gone to far this time threatening a drop in standard of living that mimics the
Great Depression . It has become clear to the collective lower
classes (people making 200k and under ) that not only are the rich threatening their survival ,but they are threatening the very existence of America as we have know it in their unbridled greed . Globalism ,faulty tax trickle down theories ,damaging
trade policies and tariffs ,bail outs to the gambling financial
sectors ,on and on , threaten the middle classes very existence .
The rich fight to maintain the wealth disparity and the corrupted systems ,the Collective
Majority fights for their very survival and existence at this point in history . The writing is on the wall if there is a
continuing of the disparity in wealth and power .
“And stop spending more than you have!”
The ‘common sense’ mantra that’s always wheeled out to justify cuts to the middle class, but never mentioned when we’re bailing out the rich.
And ‘we’ don’t have the money necessary to pay our middle class their promised benefits, but the wealthy do. And they’ll still be rich.
We bailed them out, why won’t they return the favor? We’re supposed to radically dismantle our current system, much to the detriment of the middle class, rather than have them pay a few more points in tax? Are they not fellow
Americans? Will they not join us in this time of sacrifice?
No alpha -sloth ,the rich would rather spend millions on PR campaigns and bribe Politicians to put all the pain on the lower classes . Distribution of the pain downward is their motto ,in spite of them being the beneficiaries of the “systems” in
America that allowed wealth generation to the top for decades .
“We’re rationally looking for much-needed funding for our system.”
I get your argument about the rich paying more in taxes. I don’t necessarily agree, but I can see where you are coming from.
But that only adresses the funding side; why don’t you guys ever adress the spending side?
Why do we need more funding? What percentage of our GDP should be government spending? You think it should be higher? It cannot grow forever, cannot/should not approach 100%. For many of us the percentage is already too high.
I think there have been recommendations on the spending side - most would like to cut defense, get out of Afghanistan and Iraq.
Medicare is the elephant in the room. Until we can control healthcare inflation (not health insurance, health CARE is at the root of the problem), we are in trouble.
I favor people working longer and contributing to SS longer, but until we address the jobs issue, it may hurt our young folks more than it helps. And I worry about adjusting the age at which people can collect. We don’t all age at the same rate. Some of us may be able to work into our 80s and some may be done at 60.
Bronco,
Many of us HAVE addressed the funding side.
Most of us (from what I’ve seen) would greatly favor cutting our defense budget by a rather large percentage. Also, I would LOVE to get rid of all the spy stuff as well.
IMHO, if we got out of other people’s countries, we would suddenly become safer, and wouldn’t need all that military might (but welcome a well-trained citizen-militia).
Want to fix SS? Raise the income tax, make it infinite. We *could* means test.
Want to fix Medicare? Open it up to all the **healthy** people who are currently enriching the private insurance companies. We already cover the most expensive patients (seniors, indigent/poor, young children, etc.), why are we giving all the profitable patients to the insurance companies???
Raise cap gains and dividend taxes to the same rates **workers** have to pay. Why in the world are we penalizing work and rewarding speculation???
Do just those things, and I believe we’d see our economy right itself rather quickly. After things settle, we can look for further things to cut if necessary.
*Raise the income cap for SS taxes.
Not true I’m wealthy probably top 1-2%
I advocate for a strong middle class, the middle class are my customers.
I advocate for a gov that can keep a corporate oligarchy from stealing my wealth via inflation, via hidden fees, via manipulated markets via a tax code that hammers me and let’s the elite off with a boat load of tax breaks. That allows the elite to dump their garbage on the state for full price when things crash and then buy it back for pennies on the dollar. That strips wealth from the state via no bid contracts. That kills the middle class with trade policy.
There are no benifits of cappitalism when too big to fail exists. When corporations can manipulate gov as easily as they are doing now. We need to break up the giant banks adn funds and many of the conglomerates. We need to restrict trade with states that don’t have the same environmental and labor standards and put our population back to work. We need to pull our military back and stop sending pallet loads of cash into war zones that later can’t be accounted for.
Our gov is owned by the elite, I want that to end.
I am just anti-corruption. Be as rich as you want, just play fair and pay your taxes like the rest of us.
We are in the same boat, top 5%, and still favor a more egalitarian economy.
Agree with everything you’ve said, measton.
Yet you rail against those who have just a bit more ??
Question;
Should a married couple of University professors pay the same tax rate as a New York City shortstop ??
That’s just it
They don’t have just a bit more.
The difference of the top 0.1% vs top 2% is HUGE.
I’d be happy if I thought that most came to their money honestly and they paid a tax rate that was above mine. I’d be happy if their wealth didn’t come at the expense of everyone else and that they actually created something of value. This is not the case in my opinion.
There are a huge # of small business owners who think of themselves as elite who are going to find that it’s the middle class that butters their bread. The way we are going the only people who will have wealth are those that manipulate gov to control natural resources that people need and to control monopolies.
This is what I’m against. The shortstop you sited above earned his money. People went to the game paid what they thought it was worth. The Hedge fund manager who got insider information on GS or AIG and made HUGE money did not earn his money he stole it. The large bank that set up 401k plans that strip wealth via high hidden fees didn’t earn his money he stole it. All the players who manipulated the media and gov to create the bubble and then got out or got bailed out didn’t earn their money they stole it.
http://www.online.wsj.com/article/SB70001424052748704507404576178930990597932.html
Mr. Gupta called Mr. Rajaratnam just before the market close on the very day Goldman’s board approved a $5 billion investment in Goldman by Berkshire Hathaway, a vote of confidence in Goldman which came at the depths of the financial crisis. Mr. Rajaratnam promptly bought Goldman shares and then sold them, earning a quick profit of $900,000.
Mr. Gupta also leaked confidential information about Goldman’s and Procter & Gamble’s earnings, which enabled Mr. Rajaratnam to make more than $17 million in illegal profits and avoided losses, according to the SEC complaint.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB70001424052748704507404576178930990597932.html
Oops bad link.
fixed link should post soon.
I’d also like to point out that the short stop probably pays an effective tax rate of close to 30% as opposed to the Hedge Fund Manager and CEO who might pay 15%. They get paid in dividends, insurance payments, loans, and capital gains (guaranteed due to repricing of options).
“Yet you rail against those who have just a bit more,”
I’m gonna guess you didn’t see my links at the top of the page?
A “bit more” is like saying Marie Antoinette wasn’t really uncaring.
And I don’t LIVE in another country. I live here.
“Youze guys are rich beyond imagination compared to billions of people in other places. Yet you rail against those who have just a bit more, plotting how to get it away from them. Ignorant and uncaring of the hordes behind you. It’s amazing!”
You’ve already established your dishonesty when you compare us to Calcutta, India.
Speak for yourself. I don’t begrudge the rich their money, so long as they earned it and didn’t steal it. I also would like the assurance that giant vampire squids cannot steal from the masses with impunity. I don’t see why a banking system subject to a rule of law is too much to ask, but perhaps I am a hopeless idealist?
“ca renter says: ““I addressed this theory yesterday, and brought data that showed there is NO evidence that a limited govt and limited (low) taxation leads to”
lets try this again, you brought the data, it showed no evidence and you take that as proof?
proving a negative (arguably) can’t be done, yet you claim to have done so with limited data. it just doesn’t hold water.”
Seriously, you did not just write this.
You can go to google right now and find a list of corporate crime in this country alone, of every type imaginable, that would take you the rest of your life to read.
I’ll take less government when we have less corporate crime.
Comment by CharlieTango
2011-03-06 05:54:38
ca renter says: ““I addressed this theory yesterday, and brought data that showed there is NO evidence that a limited govt and limited (low) taxation leads to”
lets try this again, you brought the data, it showed no evidence and you take that as proof?
proving a negative (arguably) can’t be done, yet you claim to have done so with limited data. it just doesn’t hold water.
Charlie Tango,
What the data show is a **NEGATIVE** correlation between low taxes and “prosperity and opportunity for the masses.”
IOW, the claim that “low taxes and a small govt bring prosperity and opportunity for all” is FALSE!
What part of this do you not understand????
So, what can economics tell us about this sit-u-ation?
(Hwy wonders if the Prius folks also shop at Costco…)
The Prius: 2,000,000 Million Plus units & still selling…
The Prius is sold in more than 70 countries and regions, with its largest markets being those of Japan and North America. In May 2008, global cumulative Prius sales reached the milestone 1 million vehicle mark, and in September 2010, the Prius reached worldwide cumulative sales of 2.0 million units. The U.S. is the largest market, with 955,101 units registered by December 2010.
The Hummer: 305,743 units in 10 years…production greatly diminished…
Automotive News
October 9, 2009
Year Total % Chng.
*2009 *8193 *-64%
2008 27,485 -51%
2007 55,986 -22%
2006 71,524 -26%
2005 56,727 93%
2004 29,345 -17%
2003 35,259 80%
2002 19,581 2,450%
2001 768 -12%
2000 875
Idiots don’t they know how much money they would save with a Hummer and how much they could cut down on pollution.
I am looking buy a TDI, a much smarter purchase that a Peeus. Last longer, and does not do as much damage to the environment as a Prius. The Prius is just a mis-informed goofy status simple for suedo-liberals and old ladies with little dogs in their purse. We laugh at em in CA.
Bulli for you! Anything & every lil’ thing away from the black-goo straw…It’s all good.
BRAVO
You’ve made a smart decision in your car purchase. I just disagree with your faulty partisan analysis that I poked 1000 holes in of a hybrid.
high road is always the most fuel efficient path. +1 meatson.
+1 Meatson is a good girl, glad to see she wasnt baited.
Just say no to Nickle.
New TDI, very clean!! Not your grandpa’s diesel. I dont have time to educate ya though. Try Google and post.
“Last longer, and does not do as much damage to the environment as a Prius.”
I hate to tell you but a diesel dumps far more unburned hydrocarbons into the atmosphere than an equal displacement standard gasoline engine. So how is it that a TDI id magically exempt from this fact? Or can we just presume you’re BSing again.
It seems that people just take Prius just for its mileage. The diesel TDI may dump more hydrocarbons than a Prius but it has fewer parts. What that means is that there is less environmental costs to manufacture and maintenance. For example the Prius has a BIG battery pack located in the rear of the vehicle that ‘charges and discharges’, this means more raw materials had to be dug up from earth, and had to be shipped to factories for conversion into batteries, the harmful sludge had to be treated and disposed off or discharged into the rivers causing death of fishes, plants and other life. Not to mention the microprocessor and the circuitry required (additional cost of manufacture, one pentium class processor chip uses about 12 liters of fresh water during manufacture). How about the additional metal that had to be poured to accommodate the motors and charging systems?
In addition to this, the efficiency of the Prius is reduced because it has to carry this batter pack, associated components such as motors and charging dynamos.
So before you call the Prius green, please show me a link that establishes the NET energy costs over the lifetime of the vehicle.
My point is that we are far from where a Prius is actually an improvement. In the mean time the companies are busy playing the green card to sell.
You’re the one that is saying the Prius is not green it is your job to prove it with a life cycle analysis.
Your intellectually challenged partner AVoCADo posted a puff piece on how dirty hybrids were yesterday.
Take a look at yesterdays posts where I poke holes in the entire analysis. Note he didn’t respond with one substantive post.
Personally I purchased the car to cut down on my gas consumption.
It’s paid for itself already.
1. It will need exactly 1 brake change over 220k. Saved 1200 dollars.
2. The electric motor takes a lot of the pressure off the engine and the engine will last longer because of it. Also the engine shuts off completely for significant periods of time. See yesterdays posts or google taxi canada prius. In comparison to a standard cab the guy noted fewer repairs fewer valve jobs fewer brake pad changes. I’ve had zero engine problems on my two hybrids. In fact I haven’t had to anything other than routine maintenance over 150k.
3. Over 200,000 miles I will burn 4000 gallons as opposed to 5800 ( a generous assumption of 35mpg for gas alone w 1/4 in town and 3/4 highway). 1800 gallons x 3 = 5400 dollars
Note that the diesel requires a lot of pollution control that requires a lot of platinum. A lot of dirt has to get moved to aquire that as well.
The bottom line is that price can be used as a metric for how much energy went into a car. The price of a diesel and a hybrid are the same. This of course discounts the technology in the hybrid.
The migration to more fuel efficient automobiles is a good thing as long at it is mostly market driven.
Foghorn Leghorn: “I say boy, speak up, yous got the whole hen house in a tizzy flashin’ those irradiant tail-feathers, and seems Miss Prissy has taken a liken to your “weissbier mit hefe” as well son.”
Bugs: “eh, listen Doc, what’s the prominent prognosis, we’re dyin’ to hear…
Comment by Professor Bear
2011-03-05 07:21:43
Quite coincidentally, I was enjoying a conversation about astronomical farmland prices last night over beer with a prominent agricultural economist.
“Them farmland prices are mighty high…”
“Yes, I’d like a Hefeweizen.”
“Them farmland prices are mighty high…”
“Yes, I’d like a Hefeweizen.”
That’ll be thirty-eight dollars and fifty cents.
Hwy…was this posted about GMO farmers that signed Monsanto’s Technology Stewardship Agreement Contracts and their future attached Liabilities towards their farmland sales to a new farmer or party ?
http://tinyurl.com/4qr6mzt
If it was, sorry, I’ve on the run in the Wisconsin Forests from the High Sheriff and King Walker’s Fitgerald Clan.
Maybe, not sure,…seems I read it here or elsewhere, anywho…
Keep on a runnin’ Mikey, their out for yer hide & blood! Iffin’ they catch ya, don’t give ‘em the traitor democrapts GPS hide-out coordinates!
Monsanto scares me. Lots of great documentaries available on Netflix that tell the true story. ie: sell round up resistant seeds, own round up and sue s,all farmers so they have to use Monsanto GMO seeds! yikes!!!
http://www.walletpop.com/2010/02/04/monsanto-the-evil-corporation-in-your-refrigerator/
Yep. The agri-business cartels are pure evil. I’m hoping that when they and their political prostitutes like Charles Grassley start forcing the sheeple to use 15% ethanol in their cars, the result epidemic of damaged engines finally forces the sheeple to become sufficiently enraged that they stop voting for the corporate cartels’ Republicrat stooges and starting rallying behind REAL reformers like Ron Paul.
News from Salt Lick City:
The Utarr Mormons & the Irish…who’d a thunk
The law could have major ramifications for other states and for other undocumented communities, including the Irish.
Undocumented allowed work permits under new Utah law
New hope for illegals in others states if feds grant approval
By DEBBIE MCGOLDRICK
Irish Voice Senior Editor /Published Sunday, March 6, 2011
Legislators who oppose the guest worker provision of the bill feel that it will only encourage illegal immigration to the state.
“People think we’ll be seen as compassionate,” said Republican Representative Chris Herrod. “People will actually see us as weak. They will see we don’t care about the rule of law.”
Marty Carpenter, a spokesman for the Salt Lake Chamber of Commerce, sees things differently.
“We were only comfortable with enforcement going along with a guest-worker program and creating an environment for all productive members of our society to participate fully,” he said.
Just an example that the PTB want open borders while the people want our country with borders and good jobs. Look at the history: (1) Bush I could not get NAFTA so they get Clinton to enact it. (2) Bush II could not get an immigration amnesty or Mexican Trucks allowed in so Obama gets elected and has signed a new deal to let the trucks in (despite labor’s objections) and is working on an amnesty. All the Presidents’ judicial appointees strike down any laws passed that really slow down the flow of illegals.
Utah’s legislature has done a bait and switch on its voters, all through the session they were concentrating on enforcement and now they have created a guest program that guts enforcement.
Yet some on this board actually believe we have two parties. The agenda of the PTB moves forward pushed by both parties. P.S. I believe the Obama health care was passed primarily to hide the cost of illegals health care. They just have to check a box to claim they are citizens in the Act, no real verification.
albuquerquedan,
You are spot on with your comments
Thank you. I just wish I had a solution. I guess the first step is for people on both sides of the political spectrum to see they are being used.
I just wish there were more than a dozen of us against the billions…
As long as stupid people are allowed to vote - and let’s face it, 95% of the electorate are idiots - we’re pretty much stuck with the corrupt and venal political class we’ve got now.
Sammy: good thing I am wearing my kevlar wrist guards or I would now be slowly bleeding to death. Thanks.
Actually, Bush I DID get it, they just didn’t finished the details before the end of his term.
But there WAS ceremonial signing by Bush.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAFTA
“Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1986 among the three nations, the leaders met in San Antonio, Texas, on December 17, 1992, to sign NAFTA. U.S. President George H. W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement, ceremonially signed it. The agreement then needed to be ratified by each nation’s legislative or parliamentary branch”
What the F a guest worker program with unemployment and underemployment at 20%.
Again can anyound doubt that corporations own our gov. Anyone!
Crickets
Measton, it’s worse than that. The vast majority of the sheeple seem to be well aware that corporations own our political process, but THEY DON’T CARE. 95% of the electorate voted for pro-bailout, statist, corporatist Presidential candidates Obama and McCain in the last election. Let’s face it: the financial oligarchs know they have a free hand to loot the productive economy at will, because the great mass of voters are ignorant, uninformed, easily manipulated herd creatures.
Now this is why I support the union movement at the moment. The balance of power has totally shifted to corporations. Who else is going to push gov to enact reasonable trade and immigration policy.
The Tea Party has been taken over. They were originally mad at banks now look what they are mad at. If they had stayed focused on bank bailouts and immigration and focused some on trade policy you might start to see some common ground but they are unfocused now.
All part of the plan, measton.
Remember how the PTB were really worried about the Tea Party at first? That’s because they were on the right track. Then, the PTB (Dems and Repubs) came up with the idea to co-opt the Tea Party under Republican leadership, and distract them with the healthcare bill, which the Dems served up piping hot (which really benefitted insurance companies — part of the FIRE sector). IMHO, the Rs and Ds are two sides of the corporatists’ coin. They work for the same masters.
No income, capital gains, or real estate taxes in Turks & Caicos and awesome weather. However it probably does qualify (British territory) as a nation of convenience…
Interesting anecdote about the Turks and Caicos Islands
http://www.canadiancontent.net/commtr/turks-caicos-move-join-canada_676.html
By Christopher Walsh
April 25, 2004
“Canada has had several talks with the Caribbean country, which is a British colony, all of which have led to absolutely nothing. The main factors on Canada’s part has been it’s unwillingness to be seen as a neocolonist. The Caribbean islands have been pursuing a union for almost 100 years, and it has popped up yet once again.”
Personally, I would welcome this! It would be great to retire to a Caribbean island year round without having to relinquish any Canadian benefits
A territory isn’t a country at all.
And if Britain had the same tax structure, no one would bother to use T&C as a financial center. But you can’t run the whole world as a tax shelter location. The reason the small ones seem to benefit so much, is that they are so small just having the large international businesses pay fairly tiny fees to be located there and hiring enough people to be basic mail drops on location (and hosting the occasional board meeting) is enough to float their economies. A small increase in business travel or playing host to being the “official” mailing address of some businesses wouldn’t be a drop in the bucket for the US or Britain or most other places.
The Turks and Caicos, like Hong Kong, have national health care. I guess it’s just more ….convenient. Even the nations-of-convenience have it. But it sure ain’t what the ‘minimal government’ types are talking about- or are the two compatible?
BTW Dan Bishop- if you click ‘reply to this comment’ when you’re replying to a comment, your comment will ‘nest’ in the box of the post you’re responding to, rather than down here on its lonesome.
Turks has very expensive housing and everything is imported.
Bugs: “eh that puddycat, he don’t know me very well do he?”
Straight from the horses mouth:
“And sorry, you need to revisit your math. Organic yields are lower so you should factor that in.” Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
puddycat me thinks you don’t know sheeeeeeeeeyat about “farming”, like eyes said: “Organic”, …iffin’ you got yield problems, sounds too personal for Hwy
Foghorn Leghorn: “Aaaaaahhhhh, shaddap!”
The Wildfoods Festival has built an international reputation for challenging the taste buds of attendees.
The latest crazy candidate for a food fad may prove to be quite a mouthful.
Raise your glass if you fancy a shot of horse semen, a purported “delicacy” that will debut at the Wildfoods Festival in Hokitika, New Zealand, in March.
“We had bull semen here in 2003,” said Keenan. “Deer pizzle has been offered — the penis of a deer — boiled up.
“It is the protein of the stallion. It is going to be tastefully done.”
The shots, which will sell for $10, are pitched as being healthy energy boosters and will be available to sample as they come or in cherry, licorice or banoffee pie flavors.
“You often hear from a female perspective that semen has an awful alkaline taste, so we thought we’d better make it more user friendly,” explained horse trainer Lindsay Kerslake, whose stallions will supply the shots, according to The Australian.
AOL Weird News / Matthew Hall / Feb 25, 2011
Since the FEDERAL RESERVE note is basically an IOU what do you get if you head to the FEDERAL RESERVE and ask for something of value?
A shot of horse semen?
“A shot of horse semen?”
WTF! Lol. Is this a Kentucky thing?
It’s a $100,000 a shot here.
Pizzle? Blech…
It’s a $100,000 a shot here. lmao…
Inflation!
“It’s a $100,000 a shot here.”
Offer $60k
Quality is like buying oats, once it passes thru the horse, it come a little cheaper
Please try to think past the deceptive title. The study is saying that IF a farmer wants to transition to organic, this is the most profitable crop rotation; NOT that the farmer should rethink whether to transition to organic.
Article: STUDY: RETHINK ROTATIONS BEFORE SWITCHING TO ORGANIC GRAINS.
March 29,2010 West Lafayette, IN — The following information was released by Purdue University - West Lafayette:
Indiana farmers should…view the first few years of [organic] production as an investment, according to a Purdue University study.
…the most profitable organic crop rotation begins with corn and soybeans, and is followed by wheat and/or alfalfa in a third or fourth year.
…Farmers are likely to incur higher labor expenses as they wean off of commercial pesticides and fertilizers…
“During that three-year transition period, the farmer who is transitioning the land to certified organic must use all organic practices, which typically tend to mean lower yields than the conventional system. The hardship on those farmers, though, is that they have to then sell the product from that land at conventional prices rather than at organic prices. Once they reach organic status, they get to sell their crops at an organic premium.”
The study also found that:
* The order in which you choose to transition will affect the profitability of that transition.
* Without market premiums, organic grains are less profitable than conventional grains.
* After transitional period yield penalties, organic grain yields should return to conventional production yield levels because of the accumulation of organic soil matter.
* Organic grain production doesn’t work for every farmer.
http://tinyurl.com/4a9h3qf
—————-
The bolded text is important. Farmers lose money during the transition period is tough because they have to sell beginning organic (i.e. low yield) produce at conventional prices. However, if the farmer can survive the transition, truly organic yields match conventional, only now the farmer isn’t beholden to Monsanto and the like. Sounds like a really good place for a government subsidy…
truly organic yields match conventional,
Pure unadulterated BS.
“Pure unadulterated BS.”
But is it organic?
I’m just quoting Purdue University, sorry. You may think that universities are a hotbed of hippie liberalism, but not the ones in the Midwest, and definitely NOT the agricultural departments in any school.
In one eco-documentaries I watched, the interviewer challenged a California farmer why he used so many pesticides. The farmer relied all he — and every other farmer — did was follow whatever advice came from the local ag school. So, if U Cal Davis says to use X bags of “chimiculs” that year well then that’s what they do. Cuz those scientists in the white coats are smart!
And to be fair, I’ll add that organic yields probably won’t match conventional yields, or why would farmers need the market premium for organics to be profitable? If anything, organic would be cheaper because of the chemicals savings. It is still a puzzle.
You have a much higher rate of rejected fruit with organics, plus your labor per unit is much
higher, driving up your costs. Organic fruit
is also, on average, smaller than commercial
produce. Just the facts, Ma’am…..
Fertilizer adds cost, but not nearly as much as the above.
Ol’ goatchin Hwy50 was converted to healthy food selection 3 years-ago by a 6 year old wanna-b-train-engineer/spy-satellite-designer,…Mr. Cole.
Seriously, here in CA, the 5 major grocery stores (Safeway/Vons, Ralphs, Albertson’s, Lucky’s Et al.) weekly flyers with the “food” product sales are 98.6% saturated fat & high fructose corn syrup + other shasta to long to type. But my goodness look at ‘em LOW prices!!!!!
(It’s been a total re-eda-cation,… what with content ingreedients & package weight diminishing 1-2 oz every 4-6 weeks.) Now I choose carefully & then mostly let the crock-pot kill the rest of everything I can’t decipher…
(all that & liquid sterilization as well…)
Anywho, Hwy50 likes the TREND eyes see for the future in America:
The World of Organic Agriculture: Statistics & Emerging Trends 2010:
Industry Statistics and Projected Growth
The organic industry continues to grow worldwide. Here are some statistics regarding this burgeoning market.
* U.S. sales of organic food and beverages have grown from $1 billion in 1990 to $24.8 billion in 2009. Sales in 2009 represented 5.1 percent growth over 2008 sales. Experiencing the highest growth in sales during 2009 were organic fruits and vegetables, up 11.4 percent over 2008 sales
Source: Organic Trade Association’s 2010 Organic Industry Survey
* Organic food and beverage sales represented approximately 3.7 percent of overall food and beverage sales in 2009. Leading were organic fruits and vegetables, now representing 11.4 percent of all U.S. fruit and vegetable sales.
Source: Organic Trade Association’s 2010 Organic Industry Survey
* Organic non-food sales grew 9.1 percent in 2009, to reach $1.8 billion.
Source: Organic Trade Association’s 2010 Organic Industry Survey
* Total U.S. organic sales, including food and non-food products, were $26.6 billion in 2009, up 5.3 percent from 2008.
Source: Organic Trade Association’s 2010 Organic Industry Survey
* Mass market retailers (mainstream supermarkets, club/warehouse stores, and mass merchandisers) in 2009 sold 54 percent of organic food. Natural retailers were next, selling 38 percent of total organic food sales. In 2008, mass market retailers represented 45 percent of sales, while natural food channels represented 43 percent of sales. Other sales occur via export, the Internet, farmers’ markets/ Community Supported Agriculture, mail order, and boutique and specialty stores.
Source: Organic Trade Association’s 2010 Organic Industry Survey.
* Certified organic acreage in the United States reached more than 4.8 million acres in 2008, according to updated data posted by USDA. U.S. total organic cropland reached 2,655,382 acres in 2008, while land devoted to organic pasture totaled 2,160,577 acres. California leads with the most certified organic cropland, with over 430,000 acres, largely used for fruit and vegetable production. Other states with the most certified organic cropland include Wisconsin, North Dakota, Minnesota and Montana. Forty-five states also had some certified organic rangeland and pasture in 2008; of those, 13 states had more than 100,000 acres each, reflecting the growth in the U.S. organic dairy sector between 2005 and 2008. Certified organic cropland acreage between 2002 and 2008 averaged 15 percent annual growth. However, it still only represented about 0.7 percent of all U.S. cropland, while certified organic pasture only represented 0.5 percent of all U.S. pasture in 2008. Overall, certified organic cropland and pasture accounted for about 0.6 percent of U.S. total farmland in 2008. Although a small percentage of major U.S. field crops are grown organically, organic carrots represented 25 percent of total U.S. carrot acreage, while organic lettuce represented 8 percent of all lettuce acreage. Fresh produce is still the top-selling organic category in retail sales. Meanwhile, the organic livestock sector has seen growth, with 2.7 percent of U.S. dairy cows and 1.5 percent of layer hens managed under certified organic systems.
Source: U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Economic Research Service, http://www.ers.usda.gov/data/organic.
* Acreage managed organically in 2008 in the world totaled 35 million hectares farmed by almost 1.4 million producers in 154 countries, according to data from The World of Organic Agriculture 2010. Organic agricultural land area increased in all regions, and was up nearly three million hectares, or nine percent, compared to 2007 data. Of the total area managed organically, 22 million hectares were grassland. In addition, 8.2 million hectares were used for cropland. The regions with the largest area of organically managed land are Oceania (12.1 million hectares in Australia, New Zealand, and surrounding island states), Europe (8.2 million hectares), and Latin America (8.1 million hectares), according to statistics in a chapter by Dr. Helga Willer. The report also recorded 31 million hectares that are organic wild collection areas and land for bee keeping. The majority of this land is in developing countries.
Source: The World of Organic Agriculture: Statistics & Emerging Trends 2010.
* Meanwhile, according to Organic Monitor estimates, global organic sales reached $50.9 billion in 2008, double the $25 billion recorded in 2003.
Source: The World of Organic Agriculture: Statistics & Emerging Trends 2010
My wife signed us up for organic fruits & vegetables delivered to our home from Yolo Co. Ca. I don’t consider myself to be part of the granola eatin’, deodorant abstaining, Greatful Dead listening, ……………(sorry got off track there) crowd. I have to admit it is some of the best tasting stuff I have ever eaten (short of my own garden).
First-time buyers turn fussy about ‘move-in ready’ homes
Los Angeles Times March 6, 2001
http://www.latimes.com/business/realestate/la-fi-harney-20110306,0,6735339.story
A posting about fussy purchasers on the 203,000-member ActiveRainonline real estate network in late February drew strong support from realty agents nationwide. Holly Kirby Weatherwax, an agent based in Reston, Va., who wrote the original blog post, said in an interview that some shoppers are so picky that they walk out of well-priced houses solely because of relatively minor imperfections such as:
•The kitchen appliances are by different manufacturers.
•There are no granite counters — despite the fact that the house is a modest-priced starter home.
•A carpet needs replacing or the color doesn’t match their furniture.
•Wall colors are “wrong,” such as white, when for today’s tastes, they should be a warmer hue.
“They’re missing out on some excellent, older lived-in houses, it’s a shame,” she said, “simply because they can’t overlook” flaws that would not have bothered shoppers during the previous two decades.
_____________
SO I guess people still like granite…
“he said, “simply because they can’t overlook” flaws that would not have bothered shoppers during the previous two decades.”
Hey, I can overlook quite a few minor flaws at $50/sq.ft. that I can and won’t at $100 sq.ft. or more. Wait till gas pricing stays high and watch the fall off in sales as you get further away from job sites and amenities. Wait till heating and electric bills inflate to join gas pricing. Just maybe the banks will appreciate what holding property off the market will really do for them.
We’ve look at some major fixers at $200/sf in marginal neighborhoods, here in So Ca. We’ve looked at $180/sf with minimal work needed, in nice neighborhoods, only the lots didn’t work for us. The house/lot do not have to be perfect, just match 6/10. This market has no rhyme or reason.
One flip we’re watching is down $35K so far. It’s still to pricey for what it is. At least they did most of it to our taste, and were not too cheap. They even re-did the gunite pool. Another $10K and maybe we’ll pull the lever.
“The house/lot do not have to be perfect, just match 6/10. ”
What does that mean?
It can have 6 out of the 10 on the list of “must haves”, and the rest we’ll settle for if it’s a pretty decent match.
It must be a one-story in a one-story neighborhood (also backing up to a one story) 4+2 w/pool, with a FR and DR. The rest of our wish list is flexible.
one-story in a one-story neighborhood ??
For how long ?? Better check the zoning ordinance and the limitations…Your next door neighbor’s one-story could change…
scdave
You’re right, thank you. You just reminded me to add it to my city due diligence list.
I have things on it like cut or fill lot, since this is eartquake country.
I tried to explain this to someone the other day. I don’t even think she let me finish my sentence. Because her realtor is telling her the perusers never mention price being the issue. Didn’t have the heart to tell her as buyers we never mentioned price being the problem on a well cared for home where pride of ownership was apparent. We just figured they’d be stubborn and moved on. Btw, her home is on the market for closer to $200 sq ft in CNY.
“*******************
Hey, I can overlook quite a few minor flaws at $50/sq.ft. that I can and won’t at $100 sq.ft. or more”
Same here.
Ditto.
It ALWAYS comes down to price.
“According to Zillow researchers, the median down payment in 11 major metropolitan areas has jumped to 20%, compared with “close to zero” in some of the same areas just five years ago.”
Would Zillow care to tell us which 11 metro areas these are? I’m guessing they aren’t thriving job centers. However, I am heartened by the revival of 20% down payments. Hopefully it will spread.
I kind of doubt the 20% downpayments too, but if they were required they would help explain people wanting places that are perfectly move in ready. If every penny that you can raise was needed for the downpayment, who has money to paint or time to maintain the old place while getting the new place ready to move in?
“First-time buyers turn fussy about ‘move-in ready’ homes”
It’s time for first-time buyers to start including contract provisions that require the current owners to come back and feed the squirrels.
“SO I guess people still like granite…”
The FED is still trying to prove that granite can fly. A granite flying-machine uses lots of fuel (QE-2).
“Are they shooting at the drones?”
“No, they’re trying to FLY that tank.”
Granite is radioactive…
SO I guess people still like granite…
Hey, so thinks don’t work out EXACTLY like yous thought they would,…hey, CUT with the negative waves Kelly! Life continues on kinda/sorta/somewhat all the same on the spinning planet!
From LA Dodgers Pitcher to Precious Stone Tycoon: The Matt White Story
I talked to Matt White and he was candid about his unusual situation.
“It was tough on my family, you know, being around town and people [assuming] we had all this money. It was hard on my parents,” White said.
The original $2 billion-plus estimate was mightily overblown, as he said that money for machinery, labor, proper plans for excavation, and processing the stone to make it ready for retail sale all eat up a healthy portion of that original figure – which was too high to begin with.
Reis was partially correct in thinking that the find wasn’t worth nearly $2 billion, but he was wrong in assuming that the property wouldn’t be commercially viable. Around the time of the discovery Matt White began Swift River Stone, a small-scale stone supply company. He brought his father in to help manage, an occupation he holds to this day. Right away they made $600,000 selling stone of various cuts and varieties, and sales have been steady since. With just him and his father working the machines and overseeing the vast amount of excavating, the business truly stays within the family.
Back in 2007, a story broke on the national sports news wire. Matt White, a journeyman pitcher for the Los Angeles Dodgers, had pitched seven games in nine Major League seasons and seemed destined to cling to his baseball dreams at no higher than a triple-A level. In 2003, he had purchased a 50-acre plot of land in Cummington, Massachusetts from his aunt for $50,000. White’s aunt desperately needed the money to move to a nursing home, and he happily provided it, but perhaps she might have been served better sticking with the Northern Massachusetts property. While attempting to build a home on the land in 2004 White noticed that the ground was peculiarly hard and immovable. He found rock ledges on the property and decided to learn more about the spacious land he was now in possession of. He hired a surveyor to come inspect his property to gather more info and to hopefully shed some light on his building troubles. He was shocked when he heard the surveyor’s report.
Matt White’s new 50-acre property was sitting on top of an estimated 24 million tons of 400 million year old Goshen Stone – with an estimated value of over $2 billion!
Initially he hated all of that “Mr. Billionaire” talk and the overblown media stories of buried stone treasure, but today he sees this for the opportunity that it is: a great property to excavate stone and turn a generous profit, all while keeping it comfortably within the family. The property is currently on the market for “the right price,” but there’s no urgent rush to unload the land and the stone just yet – not when the business only continues to grow.
Lucky so-n-so.
“Westfall said she recently worked with a buyer who was interested only in older houses under $200,000 — starter-home pricing territory — but who wouldn’t tolerate the minor imperfections and nicks that older houses typically display.”
So under $200k is starter home territory? In my world $200k is a lot of money especially if you have to pay it back with interest. The REIC is not going to welcome the new reality as the government can no longer fund the financial foundation for RE speculation.
Under $200K is could be construed as starter home territory for two young teachers at $35K each or an budding engineer at $70K. Of course, in a metro where two teachers or a budding engineer could count on steady work, a starter home is more like $350. That’s for an SFH.
Another anecdote: A friend told me of a house where the current occupant was relocated overseas and has to take a $100K haircut. It was sure to be well kept, and within 10 miles of work. I looked it up to see what kind of a deal it would be. Well, it’s a 1965 tract home 1300 sq ft on a quarter acre. Doesn’t sound too bad so far. Last sale: Aug 2006 for $479K. Yikes! Even a $100K haircut would make this house a little bit out of my price range. And that what-a-steal $100K haircut is $350K anyway. Not exactly a deal in my book.
The older houses are were the steals and deals are.
The goods ones just need lite repair and lite redecorating (that green shag carpet HAS to go! And that wallpaper! My god, what were you thinking!) are all they need.
ecofeco-
True, but if you find just that limited list, you’ve hit the lottery right now. We’re seeing aluminum wiring, old plumbing, cabinetry that is shot, hardscape that’s a mess, old appliances, and the list goes on. Asking top dollar with deferred maintenance and old decor, they can all gth.
I saw a forum on Redfin that was built around a Van Nuys (Hispanic Gang Bang Land-So Ca) home at $484/sf. WTH?
The banks’ reign of error. Even if you try to do things right, are not an FB, you just can’t win. Figures Citibank would screw this up. Remind me again who heads up Citibank.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/04/AR2011030404615.html
“Last fall, my wife and I refinanced out mortgage with Citibank.”
And Citibank screwed them. What a surprise!
It’s not as if Citibank doesn’t have a reputation for screwing their customers. But these lemmings still keep giving Citibank their business.
Sales of hundreds of Oregon foreclosures have been halted due to judges rulings
oregonlive dot com
That went though? It’s official?
Can you post more info tomorrow, mike?
Thanks!
I was just reminded of a segment on talk radio from yesterday, local RE program. Host interviewed locals in the Pebble Beach area of Monterey. They said that prices didn’t mean anything because all their homes were cash buys (interviewee) but that taxes were the problem. They were planning on selling, moving to FL to purchase and then come back to Monterey to rent.
I think that it is more than that. Just look at a Redfin map and see the panic setting in. Too much high end RE on the market and no takers.
“Too much high end RE on the market and no takers.”
Root of the problem. And not a damn thing BB or TTT or any other talking head can do about it.
They apparently have some choice as regards continuing or ending extend-and-pretend. As long as shadow inventory is withheld from the market, price discovery at the high end can be postponed. Not saying this can continue indefinitely; eventually, exogenous factors may force their hands, but we are not there yet.
Not a bad idea to buy in Florida and rent in Central Coast Cali. Although I so far love my Florida apartment. Houses in this area are very nice and relatively cheap. But I am a short timer here. I could be in the D.C. Area in the middle of 2012.
Those Monterey folks should consider renting both in Monterey and the South Bay part of LA. Head down south for the winter…
If they have short term California municipal bonds, US treasuries and savings bonds, and are getting Roth distributions, not one cent of that is taxable by California anyway, so why bother to leave California?
Most of my own investments are set up to be free of state taxes on the gains and the income. In case a majority of voters become socialists like some of the bloggers here who love government, I diversify my tax strategies. Half of my retirement is in Roths, the other half in pre-taxed deferred.
The best way to ensure that we don’t become increasingly socialist is to make sure that ordinary Americans believe that they have a reasonable chance at a decent standard of living if they work hard.
The evidence of their eyes is telling them that opportunity is decreasing.
Precisely, Happy.
They workers aren’t going to tolerate the looting forever. They are beginning to wake up to what “capitalism” is really all about.
Here’s a new one: Beazer Homes CEO Ian McCarthy is actually doing something for his shareholders. Not that he had any choice in the matter.
McCarthy received $7.1 million in bonuses that year, including $5.7 million in stock. No doubt intent on diversifying his holdings for the sake of his family’s financial security, he also managed to make $7.3 million by selling off some of his rather large holdings of Beazer stock — at much higher prices than prevail now, needless to say.
So all told McCarthy owed Beazer shareholders $14 million for the company’s stay in fraudville. You wouldn’t think that would be an unbearable burden for a guy who made $21 million that year and $18 million over the previous two.
But showing the great leadership he has displayed throughout his career, McCarthy simply declined to repay his company, prompting the SEC suit to recover funds due Beazer under Sarbanes-Oxley.
And you would have to say that the gamble paid off for McCarthy: Owing $14 million in bonus and stock-sale profits, he gets off by paying just half that.
Of course, this isn’t the first time McCarthy has short-changed Beazer shareholders. He received $21.8 million in compensation between 2007 and 2009, according to the company’s SEC filings. This for a period in which the company lost $1.2 billion and saw its shares plunge 89%.
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/03/03/beazer-chief-forced-to-cough-up-7-million/?source=yahoo_quote
Nope, no malfeasance there. He’s just a victim of envy.
“TrueBambooLie™” seems to be following the American Capitalist Personal Consumption Grand Global Template to-a-tee!
(Does China have a National Empire Federal Reserve?)
Graft: a major problem for China’s leaders
By Robert Saiget (AFP)
Liu Zhijun was sacked as railways minister last month for allegedly taking more than 800 million yuan ($122 million) in kickbacks linked to contracts for the expansion of China’s high-speed rail network, the Global Times said.
Liu, 58, also kept at least 10 mistresses, the report said.
“Among the main motives for bigger and bigger graft is to send one’s kids to high school or college in a Western country, to purchase an immigration status to one of those countries and to purchase housing for kids while attending (overseas) schools,” Sun said
“Other motives include to purchase and invest in real estate… to pay for the maintenance of multiple mistresses and to purchase luxury brand name goods,” Sun said.
Guan Jianjun, the 41-year-old former head of a police patrol team in the northern city of Yangquan, is yet another prime example of greed gone bad.
Guan was arrested in December for organising gambling and prostitution rackets and had about 100 million yuan in personal assets frozen, Xinhua news agency reported.
Besides owning 29 apartments in Beijing and other Chinese cities, Guan also allegedly owned a Rolls-Royce worth more than $1.2 million.
But Li — who once cultivated an image as a poet, scholar and writer — had bought his own job by giving his superior 320,000 yuan ($48,000). He then reportedly amassed 14 million yuan in bribes and kickbacks, mainly from illegal land deals.
In late 2009, he was sentenced to life in prison.
The People’s Daily, the Communist Party mouthpiece, has cited Li’s case as an example of rampant graft — one of the biggest bugbears of a government eager to tamp down all sources of public discontent.
and to purchase housing for kids while attending (overseas) schools,” Sun said
Yup…this is who I compete with. Many Asians show up thinking they want to be just like Americans, and Mom & Dad buy them a house which Junior is supposed to take care of but of course doesn’t cuz he’s got other things on his mind like, um studying and dating. So the house turns into a dive. There are Middle Eastern families making similar choices. I suppose they’ve been told housing has bottomed out here in America and they’ll reap lots of rewards w/this plan.
When I hear 30% of California purchases are cash, I wonder how many of them earned that money on American soil. And how many are foreign speculators. In my last town I had plenty of neighbors who owned foreign properties. I guess now we get to understand the reverse cachet.
Flipper LLP’s are part of that cash bragging.(So Ca) I’ve been invited to join, and now see many getting their prices in line with the non-flipped comps. Not to be mean, but as an active buyer for a primary, I hope they eat it big. A-holes.
Tons of foreigners buying in California, too. I’ve heard that a lot of those “flipper trusts” who are buying up everything in sight are really backed by foreign money, mostly Chinese.
It seems like before you answer this question, you would have to define “hurt.” For instance, perhaps home prices would go lower in Washington DC if the red-hot spring sales season were disrupted by a federal government shutdown. Would this help or hurt the economy? I have to assume those sitting on the sidelines of the housing market due to unaffordable prices would consider this beneficial.
U-T EconoMeter
EconoMeter: Government shutdown might hurt
Pain would be temporary but could harm faith in U.S. dollar
By Roger Showley
Saturday, March 5, 2011 at 6 a.m.
President Barack Obama signs the two-week funding bill averting a government shutdown in the Oval Office at the White House in Washington, Wednesday, March 2, 2011. The Senate on Wednesday sent President Barack Obama a Republican-drafted stopgap funding bill that trims $4 billion from the budget, completing hastily processed legislation designed to keep partisan divisions from forcing a government shutdown. (AP Photo/Charles Dharapak)
Each week, our panel of eight local economists answer a question about the state of the economy. This time it’s about the federal budget.
Congress passed a stopgap measure to avoid a government shutdown last week, but the funding extension expires March 18, when another work stoppage might occur.
Q: Does the potential shutdown of the federal government have an impact on the economy and consumer confidence?
The panelists answered 5 “yes” and 3 “no” (though Norm Miller couched his “no” tongue in cheek). Add your voice in the accompanying poll and see if readers break down along the same lines.
…
PB, do you think a month-long steelworker lockout in a place like Youngstown (back in the heyday of the American steel industry) affected home prices? They certainly temporarily affected volume, but once a labor pact had been reached for another few years, it was all back to normal.
IMO you put way too much significance on the impact of a temporary government shutdown. And the chance of a significant layoff of federal government employees is nil. Yeah, there might be some nibbling around the edges, but in terms of percentage it will be in the noise.
“IMO you put way too much significance on the impact of a temporary government shutdown.”
I never claimed to have a perfect crystal ball. But I suggest you are missing something important in equating the effects of a govt shutdown with a steelworker lockout. So far as I am aware, unions have always used the threat of a strike as a negotiating hammer, and their operation is set up to pay their members a handsome ‘unemployment check’ during layoffs. My BIL, who is a GM assembly line worker, was getting close to full-time pay when laid off a couple of years ago; I don’t recall the exact percentage figure, but it was a lot closer to full salary than the sudden cessation of pay which government workers would experience in the event of a government shutdown.
And then there is the expectations side of the picture: Union employees presumably factor the risk of a layoff into their household financial plans, as it happens often enough to be somewhat predictable. By contrast, many federal government employees may have come to believe that by accepting lower pay for the same work they could be doing in the private sector, they bought themselves a Chinese iron rice bowl, and the reality of a shutdown could come as a rather rude expectations shock which would greatly affect their prospective rent-or-own decision process. I, for one, would not take out a mortgage loan to purchase a home if I believed the paycheck out of which the mortgage would be paid was at high risk of suddenly ending.
One more thing: Although my crystal ball is not perfect, I suspect that history’s rear-view mirror will show my prediction correct in this area, in the event Congress goes through with a government shutdown.
The breakup of AT&T shattered the expectations of many Bell system employees in the 80s. They thought they were set for life.
Bill, the government shutdown is a temporary measure, but it could act as a catalyst. It could be enough to pop the “wealth effect” mentality which still reigns here, especially for those government workers who live paycheck to paycheck.
I think all the talk about a shrinking government are most certainly going to affect a large swath of the population.
Not just govt employees, but the contractors are going to be affected as well.
For us, the prospects of a shrinking compensation package is weighing heavily on our decision to buy/not buy a house.
February 24, 2011
Redfin Now Showing 700% More Foreclosed Homes
Last night, we flipped the switch on a different data source that gives us a more complete picture of the number of foreclosed homes that are not yet listed for sale. This is a part of what a lot of people refer to as the shadow inventory — homes that have been foreclosed upon by the banks, but not yet processed and put back on the market. These are foreclosed homes that are still waiting in the wings.
The change we made yesterday increased our coverage of these pre-listed foreclosed homes from under 10,000 properties to more than 80,000. This change also provides a more complete picture of each individual home. For instance, we now show the auction price and date for many foreclosed homes — these are the results of failed auctions that have already taken place.
Why is this change good? Since these foreclosed homes will probably be listed in the near future, you can add any of them to your Favorites list, and sign up to receive email alerts whenever any of them come onto the market. And we already show you any foreclosed homes that are listed by an MLS, so you’ll know exactly when these homes become available for purchase.
…
Local paper “foreclosures” section (highly monitored by yours truly) still showing disproportionately low number of scheduled hearings. At least 75% lower than “normal” (six weeks ago+). I always felt that even that number did not truly reflect the foreclosed inventory by even a tenth of what actually exists. The pressure is building in the clogged pipe. It absolutely is gonna blow.
“The pressure is building in the clogged pipe. It absolutely is gonna blow.”
What sort of metaphorical laxative do you anticipate will precipitate the Great Foreclosure Inventory Dump of 2012?
Light Sweet Crude.
lol Castor oil for the real estate market. Sure will make the exurbs less attractive.
Light sweet crude castor oil for Used Home Sellers — that is change I can believe in…
I wish it was true PB, but what if they are selling the shadow inventory off in bulk sales, hence clearing them out quicker and lowering their transaction costs? Is 2012 a mere wet dream for us buyers? Will they all get the flip makeover, and put back on the market at obscene prices?
Who buys those bulk sales? Certainly not end-users in places (like California) where unemployment currently tops 12 percent.
Eventually the knifecatchers who made bulk purchases will have to sell to end-users who are only qualified and willing to buy at much lower prices; we’re not there yet.
PB
Would REIT’s or Property Asset/Management Co’s, with hopes to fix and flip? I also remember reading that non-profits and municipalities have first crack at bundled REO’s. I think it was a Mortgage or REO periodical.
Who was your evidence post directed at?
(BTW, you’re such a great contributor. Thank you.)
“…REIT’s or Property Asset/Management Co’s, with hopes to fix and flip?”
Investment or business idea (the former if it already exists, the latter if not or if the market is not yet saturated):
- Pool investor funds to snap up foreclosure homes at fire sale prices.
- Sell to homeowners armed with Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac or FHA federally-guaranteed loans, which qualify them to buy from the REIT at premium (FB-creating) prices, but which do not qualify them to compete with the REIT at the foreclosure auctions.
I know this is already happening, as I have friends who are doing it on a small scale, but I am not sure how saturated the market is just yet.
I recall reading here and other dependable sources the foreclosed upon price was the loan price (think serial refi’s). If anyone can tutor me again in what this was all about, I’d appreciate it.
I also remember reading that the buyer at auction was getting the home for 25% less the County Recorder’s price reflected.
Anyone know this stuff?
foreclosed upon price was the loan price ??
When a lender forecloses, they are taking the property back for the amount that is owed to them…In a “short sale” the lender is agreeing to “accept” as full payment a lesser amount and deliver title to the property…
Article about failed banks in Alanta only affected by certain markets:
“Georgia’s failed banks generally fell into three geographic categories:
● Metro Atlanta banks that largely funded residential and commercial development or land investment loans.
● Mountain banks that funded loans for vacation or retiree home development, land investment loans and tourism-related businesses.
● Coastal institutions that also lent to vacation and retiree homes, retail and tourism-related businesses, as well as developments for the influx of new industry lured by the state’s bustling ports”
Ummm, what did we leave out?
http://www.ajc.com/business/failed-banks-make-mark-861926.html
Dumb, completely off-the-wall questions of the day:
1) Does the federal government play a direct part in artificially inflating prices at local housing market foreclosure auctions?
2) If yes, is this legal?
3) If yes, is there any chance Ron Paul and other prominent Republicans in Congress will put a stop to this practice?
If no, I apologize for suggesting this; I did say my questions were completely off-the-wall!
I’ll try. yes, no, no. that work for ya?
Please elaborate on 1) (or better yet, post a link to provide some supporting evidence).
I can. There is a foreclosure sales site called Foreclosure-dot-com that is “owned” by Bank of America, I believe (aka ‘the government’). They advertise no-reserve aucions and the whole thing is a great big sham complete with hidden reserve prices and dissapearing auction results. I triedto bid on a house one time and got so frustrated and pissed-off. And that, my friend PB, is proof of the government supporting foreclosure auction prices.
This sounds illegal. Is there possible scope for the Department of Justice to shut them down and throw those guilty of illegal acts into federal prison?
Who polices corruption at the top of the banking system? I know the Fed is supposed to be in charge of this, but who polices the Fed, in case they are not up to noticing crimes that are being committed right under their over-sized schnozzles?
That would be… nobody.
Feel better now?
Prof: Sorry if this is in the wrong place, but to reply to your question regarding the legality of investing my money in a house while my wife forecloses; as it has been explained to us by various lawyers; it is perfectly legal and not subject to deficiency judgements. My asset is not collateral on her loan.
It is legal for me to invest my money wherever I wish because Oregon is not a community property state; and I have never been on my wife’s soon-to-be-foreclosed home’s title or loan. Her house is hers to lose and my house is mine to keep. We have consulted a few attorneys regarding this and they all say the same thing. Stay in wife’s house until Sheriff comes to evict her.
My wife’s home is one that Bofa is no longer processing as a foreclosure; no longer is it searchable by Trustee Sale number on Recontrust(temporarily I assume). Compare this to 10,000 scheduled TS#s in L.A. County alone in CA.
I, as her hubby, legally had nothing to do with her getting a home loan or purchasing a home in her name. This was inadvertant; I wanted to purchase this home with her as joint tenants or whatever the legal term is for co-ownership; I simply did not qualify for a loan at the time of purchase. So upon the advice of a mortgage broker, we used my wife’s name and fico to get the loan and never subsequently bothered to add my name to the title.
I have a 700 credit score and own a house free and clear. The bank can not have it just because my wife is stiffing the bank on another venture that is hers alone. She has a sub 600 credit score due to 1 year of missed payments and is waiting for Bofa to foreclose on her. We live in her house while I rent mine out.
All legal; we want somewhere to live so plan on occupying my home when we get the boot from here; for now we enjoy living here and will be sad to go. Boo Hoo, I know. We are following her owner occupied clause in her financing(living in her house) and she is willing to part with the collateral offered up when she got her loan, which is all the bank can legally have as per the legal documents. This is all the bank can come after in OR–the house. It was appraised for 440k at one point so the bank should be happy to have it. It was certainly motive for us to let the deal go thru–60k in instant equity! No matter they are selling for under 200k now.
BOFA seems to be running into MERS problems and is giving us more time to live here than we are due. After sinking 80k in payments and 20% down at the time of purchase(easily the most drunken purchase I ever advocated my wife to buy), she has paid Bofa 80k in payments. If they sell it after the foreclosure for 200k, they only “eat” 20k on the transaction. If they had acted more quickly; they could have profitted.
Given they can borrow at 0%; and are adding 8.95 monthly checking account fees on our “free” account; are charging $59/ year for a credit card account I have held for 15 years; we don’t feel bad acting as stewards of her asset while they get their ducks in a row and repo this house. Hope it takes them a long time, we live alone in a luxury neighborhood comprising of second homes on golf courses. We live like kings for nothing. Granted it is attached product but our neighbors are never home; they live elsewhere; so we feel like we have a HUGE 20 acre parcel all to ourselves with nice landscaping tended by the HOA, etc.(We do try and stay current on the HOA fees and the insurance on the home so long as she is the owner)
It seems you and your wife have put your educations to good personal use, and I’m happy to learn that BoA is on the other side of your situation, as I am still holding out hope that they will go bankrupt and/or will be split up into a large number of small, competitive, service-oriented lending institutions under the Sherman Antitrust Act before this episode in U.S. financial history is over and done with.
The fact that BoA is the servicer says nothing about who is eating the loss on this one.
People always assume they are one and the same, but with high probability they are not.
Not that I blame you, mikeinbend—if you recall, I was one who recommended you do exactly what you are doing. I’m glad that it is working out so well for you thus far.
I’m a little surprised that you are paying the HOA dues; since technically it is the lender’s house, eventually they would have to pay the HOA current when they sold it downstream. The rational financial thing to do is not to pay them, though I understand many people would feel like they were stiffing the neighbors if they stopped paying them. Really the neighbors will get paid eventually, but they may experience some cash-flow issues in the meantime.
I understand that fannie mae owns the note; and has for a long time. Technically the property is still my wife’s; she pays the homeowners insurance anyway.
The MERS note transfer seems to be what presents a problem for the repo company Recontrust; enough for them to rescind every one but 2 of 630 pre-foreclosures at the moment. I guess they did not pay or record the change of loanership with local municipal beaurocracy; as is required to legally process a foreclosure in this state.
I realize that sooner than later she will lose this home. We will be here till the end; no uhaul to scurry away for us.
We have not asked for this to transpire. We are paying the HOA because my wife likes to use the gym, go to yoga, swim in the pool. The kids like to swim; play tennis and b-ball and nintendo in the lounges. So as long as we use the “country club” aspect we may pay; they retract one’s rights to use all the spas and gyms if you don’t pay.
We still may stop paying anyway; most of the neighbors are absentee and the HOA office is darned surprised to see money coming from our neighborhood. Its mostly second homes used in the summer. Lately its been disaster repair trucks (for interior flooding) and uhauls; no neighbors to speak of even though its scenic and livable.
A few flippers have purchased units for 200k and trying to get 230k for em; but its like a ghost town filled with future shadow inventory. HOA water and cut the grass it’s also like not paying your gardener, too. We would stop paying if we knew our “end date” but its getting more ambiguous at the moment.
Redfin suggests the time between mortgage default and foreclosure is only 2-3 months, but articles I have recently read suggests the norm is more like 17 months. What gives?
Foreclosed Home
A foreclosed home is one in which the owner is unable to make his mortgage loan payments and the bank has begun the process of repossessing the home. These homes are usually not for sale until the entire foreclosure process is complete and the bank lists the home in the local Multiple Listing Service. A foreclosed home goes through a few stages:
1. Pre-foreclosure: the bank filed a notice of default saying that the owner has fallen two months behind on the mortgage payments. At this point, the owner still has two to three months to try and refinance the loan or attempt to sell the home as a short sale. Homeowners hope to sell their home as a short sale to avoid penalties associated with going into foreclosure.
2. Auction: the owners can’t make the mortgage payments and the bank schedules an auction to sell the home “as-is” (meaning what you see is what you get) to the highest bidde. If the owner comes up with money at the last minute to begin making the mortgage payments, the bank will cancel the auction.
3. Bank Owned: the home failed to sell at an auction, and the lien holders of the home are paid off through private mortgage insurance or end up taking a loss on the investment. These homes are also known as REOs (real estate owned). The bank with the primary mortgage on the home is now the owner and will usually list the home with a real estate agent in the local MLS.
foreclosures are taking 18-24 months here in MA, still a ton of denial here even though price cuts (albeit small) are now standard on most listings.
Foreclosures in Chicagoland were taking 18-24 months in the GOOD times (that is, pre-burst to beginning of burst). Lord knows how long they’re taking now that the banks and courts are all backed up. I stopped looking at lis pendens filings for that reason. The auctions, however, are different. Once the auction happens, you are likely to see the property listed within about three months.
So, what is the current median price of a house in the USA and how many times income is it?
Someones had their 2nd cup-of-joe this morning…
That Google search took twenty seconds. I don’t see a national median here (just regional), but remember, All Real Estate is Local!
Real Estate Home Appreciation - Last 12 Months
Last Updated: 3/1/2011
The median home price, the point at which half of all homes are sold for more and half are sold for less, took some significant falls in all parts of the country in January.
In the Northeast, the median price fell to $236,500 from $237,300 and it was down 4.0 percent over last year’s price.
The median price in the Midwest dropped to $126,300 from $139,700 in December. The new price is down 3.2 percent from January 2010.
In the South, the price sank to $136,600 in January from $148,400 and fell 2.1 percent in a year-over-year comparison.
The median price in the West declined to $193,200 from $204,400 and fell 5.7 percent from the previous year.
…
“The median price in the Midwest dropped to $126,300…”
Sounds like prices in the Midwest are down to around where they were when we bought there back in 1992. Just sayin’…
“Are we there yet?…Are we there yet?”
So median price of all the SFH units in the whole northeast are down a measly $800? That doesn’t even make up for the loss of the tax credit.
“is”
Here’s a fun chart on price to income ratios in several large US cities and the overall US. Unfortunately it only goes up to 2009. (The ‘fun’ part is determining which shade of blue you’re looking for.)
As of 2009, we were at about 3.3x, I think.
paul.kedrosky.com/WindowsLiveWriter/U.S.HousePricestoIncome19892009_145D7/price-to-income_2.png
oops, maybe this
http://paul.kedrosky.com/archives/2010/01/us_house_prices.html
That is a very unfortunate color scheme — too many closely similar shades of blue. I had one of my ten-year-old children confirm my hunch that those top two blue lines, which depict the frothiest of bubble markets, are for San Francisco and Los Angeles. These markets are, not coincidentally, the ones which have recently achieved the most rapid improvements in affordability relative to local incomes. The seeds of California’s economic recovery are sprouting into green shoots of affordable housing as I type!
According to those top two lines, SF and LA, it looks like 5x income is as good as it gets. Sad. On the other hand, the current slope of those two lines looks pretty steep, not a buy signal.
“On the other hand, the current slope of those two lines looks pretty steep, not a buy signal.”
I suppose government intervention to artificially prop up prices is the wild card, but my guess would be that given the unprecedented height to which prices rose in the recent bubble, the law of economic gravity has enabled the falling knife to gather far more momentum this time than usual. One would expect a much larger crater to be formed once the ground is finally reached (e.g. home prices in areas formerly known as “a bit frothy” at the lowest multiples of income in history). But time will tell…
San Francisco Area Home Prices Drop for Fourth Month
By Dan Levy - Feb 17, 2011 9:58 AM PT
San Francisco Bay Area home prices fell for the fourth straight month in January as foreclosures made up more than a third of all purchases, DataQuick Information Systems Inc. said.
The median price for houses and condominiums in the nine- county region fell to $338,000, down 9.9 percent from $375,000 in December and 3.4 percent from $350,000 in January 2010, the San Diego-based data seller said today in a statement. The streak of year-over-year declines follows 12 months of advances.
“Last month’s activity was a continuation of trends we saw much of last year,” John Walsh, DataQuick president, said in the statement. “The market is still dominated by distress sales and bargain hunting. We’re seeing little discretionary activity.”
…
Clearly that guy should consider updating his narrative.
“…we still have residential real estate bubbles in Seattle, Portland, New York and Miami…”
FRONT PAGE NEWS: Read the front page of the Oregonian dot com and the story I have been tellin y’all about is indeed hittin the presses? Let’s hear some predictions as to how long we, as members of the rescinded foreclosure group that numbers in the dozens(or thousands, depending on who you ask) get to stay for free; seeing how MERS skirted state law regarding processing of foreclosures; and requiring transfers of notes to be recorded locally in order for foreclosures to be processed!
Will judges get bought off and reverse their decisions? Will their decisions be overturned? Will legislative action allow take-backs of these thousands of homes Suddenly in limbo(BofA acknowleges “dozens” of cases that they had been looking at last year; supposedly to assure the homeowner had exhausted their options pre-foreclosure, sounds like BS to me; and how many dozens are they talking about? They don’t specify; how many is, say, 120 “banker’s” dozens?)
This is being done for the banks, not the defaulters.
Which mean it’s bad. Real bad and we still have few more years to go.
please elaborate
It’s all there,…taking away the “punch bowl”, real estate “trickery”, non-Hawaiian, non-Tennessean birth certificate.
Let loose the “TrueAnger™” hounds!
NC, SC politely fight over presidential birthplace:
By JEFFREY COLLINS, Associated Press
South Carolina backers suggest the reason the dispute began was someone was trying to sell the North Carolina land and figured declaring Andrew Jackson’s birthplace would make it more valuable.
Any state would gladly claim the larger-than-life president who was nicknamed “Old Hickory,” a man who lost his father before birth and his mother in his teens, rose from poverty to become a war hero and then president.
A scar on his face came from a sword blow received after he refused to shine a British officer’s shoes after being taken prisoner in the American Revolution. At his 1829 inauguration, Jackson opened the White House to all for a party so raucous that one account had Jackson leaving through a window, the revelers lured out by punch bowls set on the lawn.
Teachers don’t dwell on the controversy because it’s just part of an eventful life, said Leslie Wallace Skinner, who helps with designing social studies curriculum for the South Carolina Education Department. Skinner notes, “By the time we talk about him as a president, he’s a Tennessean.”
Don’t tell that to people in the Carolinas.
How is this trend of new college grads increasingly taking government jobs going to reconcile with the Republicans’ falling hammer on the federal and state budgets?
More College Graduates Take Public Service Jobs
By CATHERINE RAMPELL
Published: March 1, 2011
Ms. Sadock says people who graduated in 2009, like her, “had to think deeper about our careers.”
“You know, a normal job,” Ms. Sadock says.
But she graduated in a deep recession in the spring of 2009 when jobs were scarce. Instead of the merchandising career she had imagined, she landed in public service, working on behalf of America’s sickest children.
Ms. Sadock is part of a cohort of young college graduates who ended up doing good because the economy did them wrong.
As job hunts became tough after the crisis, anecdotal evidence suggested that more young people considered public service. Exactly how big that shift was is now becoming clear: In 2009 alone, 16 percent more young college graduates worked for the federal government than in the previous year and 11 percent more for nonprofit groups, according to an analysis by The New York Times of data from the American Community Survey of the United States Census Bureau. A smaller Labor Department survey showed that the share of educated young people in these jobs continued to rise last year.
…
new college grads increasingly taking government jobs ??
Well, thats because they left higher paying jobs for the security & benefits don’t ya know ??
“…left higher paying jobs for the security & benefits…”
I suspect they generally took the government jobs because no private sector jobs were available, but that is admittedly just a hunch.
We need to add 300,000 per month for five years just to get back to 2007 levels of employment, quite a feat given current economic conditions. Consumer spending isn’t going to recover until current debt levels are reduced, and stubborn Americans are waiting for the magic of write-offs rather than paying their bills.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/mccain_bomb_libya_enforce_no_fly_zjprZDt2w4qenlJf1L26JO
Uber-RINO McCain, who never met a bailout or neo-con military adventure he didn’t like, is behaving true to form in calling for the US to intervene in Libya. You sheep who voted for this asshat and his even more ghastly running mate, now masquerading as a Tea Party patriot, must be so proud of your sparkling intellect and asute political judgement.
news
Bank of America: The Evil Empire Strikes Back
By DJ Pangburn Monday, February 28, 2011
With the Dodd-Frank bill neutering the ability of Bank of America to scam its customers on overdraft fees, everybody’s favorite bank has concocted a new revenue stream: monthly fees to avoid overdrafting.
The Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, signed into law by President Obama, had many effects on the banking and investment industries. One of the effects is that it significantly cut revenue streams created by often confusing and very silent overdraft and insufficient funds fees.
Banks now have to make up for the ill-gotten revenues by concocting other schemes.
…
Where’s Wikileaks when you need them?
I can’t believe anyone actually banks with those thieves.
Chris “Countrywide” Dodd and Barney “Freddie Mac” Frank should be playing nightly games of “the escaped convict meets the warden’s wife” in their prison cell, if there were any justice in our so-called justice system. These two scumbags are the poster boys of the housing bubble and were prime enablers of bankster fraud. Seriously, PB, I never thought you would be so naive as to credit these two bankster marionettes with reining in the banksters, especially after their role in spiking Ron Paul’s attempts to audit the Fed.
Phil Gramm should share their cell too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Gramm
I saw this and I was hoping it was fake. But it is not fake enough.
Detailed Analysis
This widely circulated email forward features a series of photographs depicting a protest rally by a group of radical Muslims. Demonstrators at the rally are shown brandishing placards with violent and inflammatory slogans such as “Behead those who insult Islam” and “Be prepared for the real Holocaust”. The message claims that the photographs were snapped during a recent “Religion of Peace Demonstration” in the streets of London.
Such a protest did take place in London and the photographs are genuine. However, the protest did not take place recently, nor was it ever declared to be a “Religion of Peace Demonstration” as claimed in the email.
http://www.hoax-slayer.com/muslim-protest-london.shtml - 27k -
“Religion of Peace Demonstration”
Propaganda + Religion illutrates the principle of how the whole can be worse than the sum of its parts.
But I have to admit the “Europe is the cancer Islam is the answer” sign was pretty clever.
Humans have a nasty history of genocide, so I wouldn’t worry about Europe. They will solve their problems when they’re good and ready.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=181657
Enraged Irish voters thought they were sending their bankster-owned political elites a clear message by voting for Fianna Fail’s nationalist message - now it’s looking like a case of “meet the new boss, same as the old boss.” In the same way, the morons who voted for McCain and Obama in 2008 will be beguiled by some new champion of hope ‘n change in 2012 - or Obama Rebranded - only to find out they should’ve just cast their ballots for Lloyd Blankfein and Jamie Dimon directly, instead of their Republicrat marionettes.
Any question as to who runs our world? It ain’t the unions…
Real-Estate Recovery in 2011? Not Likely
Jan. 20, 2011
Even if the housing market picks up steam this year, that will prompt the “closet” inventory to enter the market — thus pushing prices lower, says veteran real-estate writer Lew Sichelman. He talks with Amy Hoak about his real-estate outlook.
http://www.tfmetalsreport.blogspot.com/
Bernanke’s hyperinflation starting to bite.
Yep. We need to look at asset prices (including commodities), not CPI, to find out what’s going on WRT inflation.
Houses still cost too much.
And my LL is not paying the HOA.