The Housing Bubble

“Only then, having filled their own pockets with a cushy cash fund to live on, will they repudiate the debt and allow the country to sink anyway.”

The “cash” would be worthless at that point. You’re making the assumption that the currenty “system” will be in place. I doubt it.

Let them eat paper.

Who said they’re keeping their cash in cash?

Parking meters. Parking Meters?

Has it come to this?

Blue Skye, did you not hear about the Parking Meter Deal in Chicago? Former Mayor Daley had a budget deficit. To close that gap, he leased out all the city parking meters. In return for a onetime fee (something like a billion?), a private holding company (including cleverly hidden foreign interests) would receive the rights to 75 years of parking meter fees. Parking meter rates quadrupled overnight. In the end, the total fees will be far far far more than that one-time fee.

Already happening here in San Francisco, home of the most expensive parking tickets in the nation ($65 a pop). They upped the price to cover the city’s budget deficit.

I so miss living in the city. Time for Cool Hand Luke.

for such a liberal city they sure are militant when it comes to parking.

If a public official wants to do anything like that parking meter idea, it should be run like an advance on royalties of a book. The author gets an advance and gets to keep it. As the book sells, she gets credit of whatever the royalty rate per book is against the advance. When the advance is down to zero (sold 10,000 at $3 royalty each against a $30K advance) then she starts getting paid the $3 per book because the advance has been recovered by the publisher.

Same thing for the parking meters. City gets “advance” and the buy back on the advance is 95% or 80% or 50% or whatever on the actual parking amounts collected. So once the private place has collected enough so that 80% of the amount collected equals the advance, they have to share out 80% of the amount collected with the city for the rest of the contract. That allows the city to get a big chunk up front (pathetic, but that is what they want) without giving away ridiculous amounts of revenue. And they get to fire the meter maids who are replaced by contractors (which for some reason is seen as shrinking the size of government) and not get blamed for raising the parking rates.

Any other set up is giving away government assets and should be investigated as possible graft. Who would do something like that unless they were getting a kick back?

And they get to fire the meter maids who are replaced by contractors (which for some reason is seen as shrinking the size of government)

It is “seen” as small government only by the sheeple. They have been brainwashed that less government work is being done, when actually less government work is being done internally. The rest is farmed out for juicy fees.

“San Francisco, home of the most expensive parking tickets in the nation ($65 a pop).”

NYC has that beat.

There is a pedestrian curb cut at the top of a T intersection by my home (an implied crosswalk, no painted lines)… the parking fine for blocking it is $165.

nyc(dot)gov/html/dof/html/parking/park_tickets_violations.shtml

In that vein, Indianapolis “partnered” with KFC and sold space on new fire hydrants for $7500. The ads were for the company’s Fiery Grilled Wings product.

Comment by oxide
2011-03-07 08:45:15
Blue Skye, did you not hear about the Parking Meter Deal in Chicago? Former Mayor Daley had a budget deficit. To close that gap, he leased out all the city parking meters. In return for a onetime fee (something like a billion?), a private holding company (including cleverly hidden foreign interests) would receive the rights to 75 years of parking meter fees. Parking meter rates quadrupled overnight. In the end, the total fees will be far far far more than that one-time fee.
———————-

This is exactly what I think is behind all the union bashing. The unions are the only ones who might oppose the privatization of everything.

The sheeple think that private concerns will run things better and more cheaply. Has there ever been a case where a public asset was “privatized” and the public got a better deal?

I’m not aware of a single case. Every time I’ve seen this “privatization,” it’s lead to HIGHER prices for customers. So much for the theory that “private enterprise does everything better and cheaper.” I’ve never seen it.

Yup, it seems to be true…

Time Saturday, March 12 · 12:00pm - 2:00pm

Location The Capitol, Madison WI

“Next week, farmers from across the dairyland will bring tractors and solidarity to the WI capitol to fight for labor rights and a just state budget. Rural communities will be disproportionately hurt by the cuts to education and badgercare, and farmers in Wisconsin stand with state workers, and all working and middle class families in the state. The event is sponsored by Family Farm Defenders, Wisconsin Farmers Union and Land Stewardship project. All farmers and eaters welcome and encouraged to come! If you have a tractor and would like to join in the tractorcade please contact John Peck at Family Farm Defenders - (608) 260-0900; familyfarmdefenders@yahoo.com”

http://tinyurl.com/4n2vsvt

Farmers have been F’d by big Agribusiness for a long time. The middle men strip the profit from milk sales, they have cornered the market on seed and fertilizer. Farmers may see some common cause here.

I love the sound of pitchforks in the morning.

Time Saturday, March 12 · 12:00pm - 2:00pm
Location The Capitol, Madison WI

“Next week, farmers from across the dairyland will bring tractors and solidarity to the WI capitol to fight for labor rights and a just state budget. Rural communities will be disproportionately hurt by the cuts to education and badgercare, and farmers in Wisconsin stand with state workers, and all working and middle class families in the state.

“…and farmers in Wisconsin stand with state workers…”

Don’t get your bottom stuck by one of them pitchforks, Governor!

Look out Walker and crew, the manure spreaders are coming for you !

Back during my bicycle touring days, I quickly learned that there was one vehicle that I didn’t want to get stuck behind. That was the manure spreader.

Darn things took up a lane and a half, and I had to pass them very carefully. To avoid the fleks of manure that would occasionally fly off in my direction, doncha know.

I was always careful about being very polite to the drivers of those things. I didn’t want to get on their bad side, if you get my drift.

And when the $hit hits the fan, it really smells. What an expression! I suspect not too many know its linguistic origen when they use TSHTF. It meant5 that the poo in the fertilizer spreader was hitting the fan and a stench was about to occur not just over the rows; but over a great area. We farmed next to a Vons in Goleta; the people were aghast at the smell that chicken manure would exude when TSHTF.

Some competitor claimed he got sick from our broccoli. And I think he was not making it up; my boss at the time(he was called “the gopher” behind his back for his short stature and grubby ways) was liberal in his fertilizer application. Fish emulsion, bat guano, seabird guano, chicken manure etc. Maybe too close to harvest, I don’t know.

Seems WAY more unsanitary to use that organic fertilizer than processed stuff that commercial farmers use. Also organic celery is often blue-tipped; copper sulfate controls fungus; it is an approved organic fungicide. Does not make ingesting lots of heavy metals in the organic celery any healthier.

So after being an organic farmer; I am leery of the more “commercial” organic movement that has organics in all the supermarkets. It is not the same as the local gardener who diligently cares for and conscienciously applies safe and natural herbicides(a hoe or an acetylene torch), pesticides (BT, a bacteria that is toxic to cutworms and other pests; also ladybugs purchased to control strawberry mites, and good old fashioned soap come to mind), fungicides(powdery mildew can be a nightmare; thus the copper sulfate is one of the widely used “organic” fungicides), and fertilizer to each piece of food he grows.

Interesting post.

Going the organic route is tough, but we just did a taste test of the Tonda di Parigi and Nantes carrots we did against the store bought bagged variety. Amazing, sharp carrot flavor vs. a limp carrot-esque taste.

These deals are not at all uncommon from what I’ve seen. There is usually a bribe of some sort offered to the council member(s). It is what it is…politics.

Bingo, Colorado!

How many parking meters in Madison and Milwaukee?

Of course they are bankrupt. They have to pay almost all their money in guaranteed pensions for which the fund was based on 8% return which has to be made up with taxes.

I would move and let the city die along with its pension obligations.

They should do like Amsterdam and set up a red light district to keep it all contained.

“They should do like Amsterdam and set up a red light district to keep it all contained.”

Exactly. Legalize it and tax it, and they’ll be back in the black in no time. Maybe even pay those pensions.

Valle-ho’s.

Legalize it and tax it ??

That makes to much sense and would put to many in vice & the criminal justice system about of work…

about = out….

Comment by GH
2011-03-07 10:33:33
Of course they are bankrupt. They have to pay almost all their money in guaranteed pensions for which the fund was based on 8% return which has to be made up with taxes.
————————–

Not necessarily. Many cities are renegotiating contracts so that the employees are paying more (or all) of the pension contributions. It’s really a simple problem to be fixed, and it’s being fixed as we speak.

Of course, these facts aren’t “newsworthy” and are conveniently left out of the MSM rants because the momentum behind the union bashing might dissipate. Can’t have that, because there are some private interests who are looking to get their hooks into the public money once the unions are out of the way.

Of course my favorite quote was “What about us brain dead slobs?” “You’ll all be given cushy jobs.”

“they should be eliminated.”

So should the individual income tax. Replaced by a national sales tax. For all. Then the criminals get to pay their fair share.

the burden lands on the consumer

Corpooration’s Inc. have a looooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnggggg & proud historical history of always putting the consumer before Corporate Profits. For example, look how poor poor Inc.’s handle their “Customer Service” Dept’s.

Does that national sales tax include stock transactions, even stock buys that last for less than a microsecond?

“Replaced by a national sales tax”

Most regressive tax possible.

A regressive tax is a tax imposed in such a manner that the tax rate decreases as the amount subject to taxation increases.

Sales taxes are not regressive but flat.

So should the individual income tax. Replaced by a national sales tax. For all. Then the criminals get to pay their fair share.

Please
The elite spend a tiny fraction of their wealth on consumption.
When they want a new shipt they will just buy it used (wink wink nod nod) from a friend overseas.
When they want expensive jewels they will buy them on a trip and hide them.
When they want expensive cars they will put in loop holes for renting them.

You are the one who will pay.

My salary gets taxed twice, once when I earn it and again when I spend it. The double taxation cry is pathetic. Who cares what we need to look at is effective taxation. ie at the end of the day how much does the person pay. The elite pay precious little.

A tax is also regressive if it takes a larger proportion of the income of lower earners. A tax on food would be an example.

I looked up progressive taxation on Wikipedia and the definition of regressive taxation was unfortuantely unclear. What Blue Skye means is that a sales tax would take a larger portion of the income of the poor than the middle class and a larger portion of the middle class than the rich.

would take a larger portion of the income of the poor than the middle class and a larger portion of the middle class than the rich ??

Not if you make it progressive and give the marginal income earner a credit…Buy a $25,000. car you pay a 3% tax….Buy a $100,000. car and you pay a 10% tax…Don’t want to pay the tax, don’t buy the car…The wealthy will piss & moan about the tax but will still by the car because, for the most part, the purchase is ego driven and the tax will not stop them from buying it….

“The double taxation cry is pathetic. Who cares what we need to look at is effective taxation.”

What we need to look at is the effective use of the taxes collected!

The “wealthy” pay almost all of the tax anyway. Most earners under $50k pay nothing after child tax credits etc are calculated and at lower earnings earned income tax credit can pay back almost $6000 if you have a good number of children.

The fact is that we pay people a fortune in the US to have as many children as possible.

A tax on imported manufactured goods would effectively tax off-shoring corporations who are legally skirting labor and tax laws here to increase profit and create motive to keep jobs and economic growth at home. So junk at Walmart would cost a lot more…

The fact is that we pay people a fortune in the US to have as many children as possible.

And, at the same time, those of us who choose not to reproduce are considered suspect.

GH, you are so wrong it’s not even funny.

You might find the IRS website helpful as well as the Census website as well as this. (look at the charts sources)

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

“The fact is that we pay people a fortune in the US to have as many children as possible.”

Not sure I’d call it a fortune, but maybe it’s time to question this tax credit policy. Maybe a truly universal healthcare system and a better system of funding education would be a better (and more equitable in the case of singles) use of that money instead of granting tax credits to certain groups?

If healthy and educated kids is the goal, then give them health and education services. OTOH, if more consumers and a bigger labor supply is the goal - well then yeah - keep throwing them money through tax credits because that masks the real problems.

“The wealthy will piss & moan about the tax but will still by the car because, for the most part, the purchase is ego driven and the tax will not stop them from buying it….”

don’t be so sure…buddy of mine’s father is a yacht builder. when clinton passed the luxury tax he went from a yacht builder to yacht repairer overnight…had to lay off a bunch of folks and almost went out of business.

Some companies pay property taxes. Removing them would merely encourage all citizens to incorporate.

Comment by ecofeco
2011-03-07 12:35:11
GH, you are so wrong it’s not even funny.

Taxes have very little to do with the current income inequities in America. The Bush tax cuts gave back a greater percentage of income to the working poor than the “rich”, and those earning under $50k seldom pay much or any tax anyway, so as taxes are the root of this evil they should also be the wealthiest.

Of course that is none-sense. Today CEO’s earn some 200x that of the lowest wage earners, with bonuses in the tens or even hundreds of millions regardless of performance.

The reason for this income inequity is that the working poor are now required to compete with EVEN POORER people from down south and YET POORER from Asia and India.

Wages on the low end have not been this low in terms of purchasing power since the depression, and there is little sign this will improve under either political party.

If we want equality in terms of income then we need protectionist policy. If we cannot stomach protectionist policy, then look at wages to continue to fall in the West.

The widening gap between rich and poor has nothing to do with income taxes and everything to do with income. Worse, when a poor person does make it into the higher income streams they then have to face the liberals progressive income tax with few if any of the protections such as home mortgage deductions.

As for child tax credits all these do is promote more childbirth, and then usually not among the group most able to raise healthy educated children to begin with…

You’re right… up to a point.

But math says there is a big difference between on tax breaks on 50k and tax breaks on 50 MILLION.

Well actually, a HUGE difference. Several million huge differences.

And speaking of tax breaks, you do know the Repub blocked an effort to end tax breaks for offshoring jobs? Tax breaks that would have been transferred to local business for… hiring.

Last Sept in fact. Just before they were given more power in Congress.

As for the under 50k not paying taxes, you obviously have no clue.

Some do. Some don’t. Most do.

IRS.gov

Everyone who works pays social security and medicare taxes- the poor and middle class pay higher effective rates of social security tax than do the wealthy (due to the income cap). And everyone pays sales tax- again with the poor paying a higher effective rate than most wealthy do(unless they too spend all their income every year).

And of course most of the wealthy make their money as capital gains, which are coincidentally taxed at much lower rates than is income.

Most earners under $50k pay nothing after child tax credits etc are calculated and at lower earnings earned income tax credit can pay back almost $6000 if you have a good number of children.

The fact is that we pay people a fortune in the US to have as many children as possible.

So, 90+% of the dead soldiers in America’s Foreign Wars are not from the top 1% of America’s wealthiest families, is that what you’re meaning?

Some companies pay property taxes. Removing them would merely encourage all citizens to incorporate.

So, SCOTUS Corp Inc = “person” ,…therefore “person” = SCOTUS Corp Inc.

Sounds fair to Hwy50.

“As for child tax credits all these do is promote more childbirth”

Really? How many people do you know that decide to have children because they will get a tax credit? Even with all of the credits, children are a net loss until they support you in old age.

Yeah, but it’s in the middle of nowhere. The prices are delusional.

“Isn’t this why so many people jumped into the speculative real estate market?”

Good point, this is so true for many people I work with. Flipping or owning multiple houses is/was the retirement plan.

‘even if you can sock away 10+% of your income, its hard to grow it with low interest rates and the rollercoaster casino stock market. Isn’t this why so many people jumped into the speculative real estate market?’

I was pondering something along these lines the other day here; why did the PTB allow the stock/housing bubbles to grow so large? For example, Greenspan warns of irrational exuberance around the mid-nineties, yet his policies helped the bubble to get to dangerous levels years later.

And then there is globalism, a nice sounding word that could explain some of the problems you are describing. Was the US housing bubble ignored, in part to cover up the lack of real opportunity and wage growth?

“Was the US housing bubble ignored, in part to cover up the lack of real opportunity and wage growth?”

Of that I have very little doubt.

yes, but….Really are we to believe that a majority of Americans COULDN’T live reasonably comfortably on 90% of their incomes? Unless you’re at that minimum wage/unemployed level, there are ALWAYS people who are living on 90% of YOUR income, even if that’s 105% of THEIR income. And despite the irrelevancy of the “Social Security Trust Fund”, SS is projected to be able to pay out something like 80% of currently promised benefits from contemporary witholdings for the indefinite future.

Of course Medicare/Medicaid financing IS a trainwreck. We simply CAN’T afford to give everybody ALL the medical care that they might DESIRE. Some form of “rationing” will exist. But until we can get our collective heads around that simple fact, demagogues will scream “death panels,” and we will continue to ration healthcare by affordability.

‘SS is projected to be able to pay out something like 80% of currently promised benefits from contemporary witholdings for the indefinite future’

“Indefinite future.” So we can now say, we owe it to ourselves, for the indefinite future!

Projected by who? How come actuaries are never part of this rosy picture. How many workers to how many retirees; that shouldn’t be too hard to figure out.

“Projected by who?”

I don’t have links handy. I also recall reading that Medicare is in far more dire straits than SS.

But unless the payroll tax is repealed SS will have money to pay out. And I fully expect benefits to be discounted, of that I have little doubt.

Ben, what have you read regarding the reduced payouts? Will it be 70 cents on the dollar? 20 cents? just curious.

How many workers to how many retirees; that shouldn’t be too hard to figure out ??

I believe when it was introduced there were 16 for every one retiree…I think it is now 3 to 1….

Throw Medicare/Medicaid under the bus, and SS will take care of itself.

scdave: I belive that the inexorable decrease in the number of retirees per worker is the source of that 80% figure. So as in Colorado points out, idea that there “will be no social security” is merely the wet dream of a small number of ideologues.

Was the US housing bubble ignored, in part to cover up the lack of real opportunity and wage growth?

Yes.
Same as the tech bubble.(1990s. the decade of accelerated offshoring)
Same as the S&L disaster. (1980s. the decade offshoring ramped up)

“Throw Medicare/Medicaid under the bus, and SS will take care of itself.”

This may be the plan.

And then there is globalism, a nice sounding word that could explain some of the problems you are describing. Was the US housing bubble ignored, in part to cover up the lack of real opportunity and wage growth?
———————————-

Yes!!!

This is something many of us have brought up over the years. People were totally unable to get ahead by “working.” In the meantime, they would see all the speculators making money hand-over-fist. Nothing like bringing in 3X your (wage) income by flipping houses, trading stocks, etc.

On top of that, our tax structure is set up so that speculation is rewarded over working! What in the world would anyone expect a sane person to do? The obvious choice for so many Americans is that they had to speculate in order to maintain a middle-class standard of living.

Full benefits at 65, if only the rich would pay the same effective rate as the rest of us.

http://www.epi.org/economic_snapshots/entry/webfeatures_snapshots_20050217/

Thank you, alpha!

‘we are being brainwashed into believing that “I won’t get a penny from SS”…so that it can be privatised and the Vampire Squid can get its tentacles around that money’

Yes, the evil banksters again. (We’ve got to come up with a name for this phenomenon). Like I asked before, where is this money? Or is it like the guy on NPR assured, “we owe it to ourselves!”

That makes me feel all better! If we owe it to ourselves, then, then, nobody will pay…owe…spend, oh I give up. It’ll all be fine. Anyway, the public servants in DC have probably secretly saved many trillions, (that the vampire squid wants so badly) and are looking after these tubs of cash. They wouldn’t let us down, right?

Well as pointed out the top 1% own about 20 trillion.
The wars we’ve been fighting will consume well over 1 trillion.
The subsidies we give to big oil that pump up their profits are likely in the 1 trillion range
GW’s tax cuts will cost about 1 trillion over 10 years
Farm subsidies 20 billion a year
Minor modifications to SS and Medicare would sig reduce costs.
Socializing medicine would save about 3500 per person per year in the US.
and of course the FED has a printing press.

“Yes, the evil banksters again. (We’ve got to come up with a name for this phenomenon). Like I asked before, where is this money?”

Its a pay as you go system. We all know SS is not a pension plan.

And yes, it is the “evil banksters”. Who else would benefit from privatizing SS, by converting it into a 401K type of plan?

Bush junior tried to get SS privatized during his admin. You can look this up.

If there is no money there, then why would they want to privatize it?

But there IS money and plenty of it. Gen X and Y outnumber the boomers. And even they are at least having “replacement” children.

Flat out, Wall St. wants that money. Period.

QEIII??

It’s just a matter of how much you need to tax from every sector for a balanced functional economy with functional systems . The balance started shifting 30 years ago and with each year it became increasingly tilted toward trickle up .

The real estate Ponzi -scheme didn’t help the government
coffers ,the trade deficits ,the out-sourcing and out-manufacturing with improper tariffs or lack of tax penalty on outsourcing
didn’t help with the tax base or job base and it took away the
bargaining power of the private sectors while it was slowly gutted the manufacturing base in America .

I wouldn’t mind tax breaks for small local business ,but its getting to the point they can’t compete with the monopoly power and tax breaks of Multi-National Business .

The rest of the World must think we are nuts . You add our military budget into the equation and we can’t function with a system that maintains the middle and upper middle class .

You also add to the equation the Wall Street corrupt ,bubble producing factor that creates lack of stability in markets .
Currently we have a health care system that wants to much of the middle class monthly nut while it is stressing every sector of economy.

For so many years in America each sector knew exactly how much they could take from the middle class monthly budget so to speak . People would get wage increase with inflation ,but it was never enough to exactly keep up . With industry decreasing wages and benefits ,while the bulk of industry just want to raise prices as usual ,there isn’t the money there .Add to that that industry underfunded their pension plans that they want to get out of ,and its all a heist .

You combine all this with the fact that the Rich or Corporation rich doesn’t want to pay their fair share of taxes
while they gut America and its just a formula for destruction
for the working stiff of America ,the actual majority .

Its not whats good for America ,or even the individual anymore ,it’s whats good for the collective rich ,which is a
small percentage of the population . It’s lobbying power no matter how insane it is .The Judicial system made Corporations into a individual recently and that will serve to
create more power for entities that have to much money to begin with .

A industrial Complex/Wall Street take over is all you can call
it with a take back of the gains that the working class made
in 100 years .

“I wouldn’t mind tax breaks for small local business ,but its getting to the point they can’t compete with the monopoly power and tax breaks of Multi-National Business . ”

I agree. Main street is dead meat on a stick. I have seen so many mom n pop businesses die during this depression while the their corporate counterparts thrive that its not funny. Other than a few niche players most mom n pops cannot compete with their big box and chain competitors.

Primer on QE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing

But what I cannot understand is why people on the left cannot see that it is the surplus in unskilled and semi-skilled labor caused by our open borders that has caused this problem.
————————

Most people would consider me to be “on the left,” and I’ve been railing against illegal immigration from day one.

From what I’ve seen, most of us “socialists” are NOT in favor of illegal immigration. One thing I can say for a fact is that any socialized system has to be fairly closed. New entrants have to be able to prove they can give more than they will take. As much as most of us would like to do it, no “socialized” system can afford to cover the costs of all the world’s poor.

For example Obama and the left support “gay marriage” but most black people oppose it.
——————-

Out of curiosity, why would black people be opposed to gay marriage? I understand a person’s religious views might not agree with it, but nobody’s saying a straight, religious person has to marry someone of the same sex.

Why would anyone oppose gay marriage when it totally doesn’t affect them?

FWIW, I’ve known some very wonderful gay families, and I’d rather my kids be raised by these gay families than most straight families I know.

Oh, the Sociopaths understand just fine. And as we’ve observed, the smartest ones ascend all the way to the top. It’s the caring part they’re lacking.

After all, for them, the s/term profit of oppression, pillage and plunder is the real “juice” of life.

DOC

Exactly, Doc.

The really fun part? It’s also the sociopaths that work the hardest to attain power.

Have to agree with you, eco.

That’s why we must always be able to check their power (money).

Polly mentioned something the other day about them being too rich to prosecute because they could always afford the best and brightest legal teams, and could afford to drag things on for years and years. Best to NEVER let any entity have this much power. When our legal system is unable to prosecute a case against them because they have too much money/power, something is terribly wrong.

I agree. Local control is romanticized as some sort of small government panacea. In reality, it’s usually more crooked and shortsighted than the national government.

I’ve had my fair share of insight into how municipal governments work. You are 100% correct, alpha. They are just as corrupt as any federal-level politicians are.

“There was also the novelty effect: Oooh, now we have our own arena!”

The novelty effect (as you term it) is always there, but this is not true of money needed to finance this novelity effect - whatever form this novelty effect may take.

But in boom times (when money can be easily borrowed into existence) the money springs forth out of nowhere and is put to work building stadiums and such - and this building in turn adds to the boom.

Until …

Until the boom turns into a bust, then everything goes into reverse. And that’s where we are now, in reverse.

Projected revenues fall short. They were destined to fall short becuse the projections were made in the boom times - times that the projectionists projected would be with us forever.

Money in the boom times was easy to get becuse the psychology of the boom made money easy to borrow into existence. Money in the bust times is hard to get because the psychology of the bust poofs much of the money out of existence.

I’m not arguing against the scarcity of money, it’s definitely a factor. I see its effect on local restaurants.

But the novelty of being able to go see Journey or some other geezer band at the Budweiser Center has gone away. Cirque du Soleil was in town recently and they sold out their shows (again, the novelty factor).

But as in all things, explanations are often complex.

But the novelty of being able to go see Journey or some other geezer band at the Budweiser Center has gone away. Cirque du Soleil was in town recently and they sold out their shows (again, the novelty factor).

Here in Tucson, the geezer bands play out at AVA Ampitheate. That’s is an outdoor concert venue about 10 miles south of Tucson.

It’s part of an Indian casino, and, man, their talent bookers are good. They can get the Boomers to drive out there from Tucson and Green Valley, no problem. And getting the Boomers to drive anywhere for concerts is becoming a much bigger challenge as the years go by.

“I’m not arguing aginst the scarcity of money, it’s definintely a factor.”

A factor? It’s more that a factor; This is the entire root of the problem. There is no money!

There USED to be money for these things, but now there isn’t. There USED to be projections of money that would make good on all the promises that were made during the boomtimes but now these projections have been poofed away.

The dotted lines found on charts in the boom days - the dotted lines that forever slanted upward - have turned into solid lines that now slant downward.

Dotted means projected, solid means acutal. What the dotted lines promised the solid lines took away.

Also crowding out. Just because more and more second and third tier citys get convention centers and arenas DOESN’T mean that there will be more events to fill them.

There is also the rivalry effect. Here it was “[insert rivalr MT city]” has an arena/ball park/covered stadium/aquatic center/skating rink, so WHY DON’T WE??? Wah!

Also crowding out. Just because more and more second and third tier citys get convention centers and arenas DOESN’T mean that there will be more events to fill them.

Do a Google on the name Heywood Sanders. He’s made quite the career out of studying this very thing. And he echoes Jim A’s conclusion.

There is no money!

Jobs!, jobs!, jobs!

Your job salary request is just,…too-damn-high!

“…send in the next applicant willing to beg to work the job without benefits…”

I’m with Jim A here, too. The projections were all done around the same time and assumed that their arena was the only new one going in. They forgot that everyone else could do the same math, but if they all went ahead, the math changes. Geezer bands might add 3 or 4 more concerts to their regular tours if appropriate stadia could be found not too close to one of their other venues, but not 150 or 200.

Oops.

The city of Dallas forced a homeowner to remove his astroturfed front lawn last year. Yes, the city of Dallas has solved all the major problems in town and the city attorneys and courts are free for this sorta thing.

I’m pretty sure it was grass, because my friend said they weren’t allowed to “zero-scape.”

The correct term is xeriscape. I have one here in my yard. Explanation of how xeriscapes work right h’yar.

ecofeco, thank you.

I read somewhere recently that, when it comes to vehicles for soccer moms, minivans are actually twice as safe as SUVs in accidents. This is due to the fact that SUVs roll over a lot in accidents.

I think that the SUV may be seen by some people as the
cool vehicle in comparison to the minivan.

Here’s another interesting point that occurred to me. I remember that, when I was a kid in the 1970s, the standard family vehicle for the suburban family with two parents, two to four kids, and a cat and a dog was the station wagon. Now, these same kinds of families tend to have fewer kids and yet believe that they need larger vehicles.

Mighty Mike,

Back when you (and I) were riding around in those station wagons, how many of us were riding in the *very back,* you know, the place with no seats (except if you were lucky and got those cool jumper seats ), and no seatbelts?

We own a minivan, and needed with three kids. Otherwise, every time we wanted to go somewhere with just ONE other person, we’d have to take two cars. We often go out with other people, and we can all fit ourselves (and our stuff) in our minivan.

Yes, many parents buy SUVs because they think minivans “aren’t cool.” Well, they’re not. But what part of being a “middle-aged parent” do they not get? Face it, we’re just not cool anymore. Once you get over this fact, driving a minivan becomes fun.

“To tow a boat, and to haul 8 people plus some luggage. Maybe not many people use them for that purpose, but that doesn’t mean the purpose is difficult to comprend.”

Tow a boat? Most SLOBurbans and and all TaWhores are half ton chassis’. They cannot tow any more of a boat than any other half ton chassis vehicle and half tons are limited to very small boats (<7000lbs).

Besides, a TaWhore seats no more people than a subaru wagon.

A tahoe can seat up to 9. Best i can tell, a subaru wagon will seat 5 or 6.

Subaru 2010 towing capacity:
Forester - N/A
Legacy 2700 lbs
Outback 2700 lbs

Tahoe: 5300 - 7700 lbs.

A 6 cyl Outback gets 18-25 vs 14-19 for a Tahoe.

I drive an Altima that gets 30 mpg. If i had to have something that towed, I don’t think i’d be driving an outback.

Yeah, but with the $20k you save by buying an Outback, you could get a used Tahoe for the dozen times a year you need to carry 9 people or haul a boat.

“Yeah, but with the $20k you save by buying an Outback, you could get a used Tahoe for the dozen times a year you need to carry 9 people or haul a boat.”

Sure, and then go ahead and add the price of the used Tahoe into the Outback price, along with the added maintenance, registration and insurance for the additional vehicle, so you can realize how much the Outback is really saving (costing you).

Hummer, schummer. For about 12k you can buy a surplus M35. To heck with a 4×4, get a 6×6 deuce and a half.

If I needed a truck or McTruck to haul things, I’d rent one. Cheaper than paying $150 per fill-up to commute to work the 365 days a year I don’t need to haul anything in suburbia land.

Nice try but a TaWhore Bloatmobile isn’t going to haul anything. It’s a grossly overpriced stationwagon. And saladSD is right… He’ll save $35k and hire me to haul is stuff 3x/yr with a hauler…. not a bloatmobile.

“You just not know a lot of rich people.”

DING DING DING!!!!!

If these goobers who forever apologize for the wealthy elite actually *knew* any wealthy elite, they’d abandon their apologist agenda.

It cost about $100 for a good detail here. $40 an hr sounds close to what you could make. I wonder why he doesn’t do it for $15 an hr now?

dollar lattes = four dollar lattes

Cars that REALLY NEED detailing? Are there any cars that REALLY NEED detailing?

I’ll start the “A” list,… YOU finish it:

Jay Leno
Celine Dion
New Twit GingRICH
Mike Tyson
Cap’t “Pay-me-even-more-before-I-retire-next-month” of the OC Fire Dept
John “I-need-my-car-to-look-as-good-as-my-$400.00-haircut” Edwards
Larry “before-I die-or-marry-my-13th-wife” King
Oct-o-Mom’s booking agent
Jerry “I-need-just-x1-more-Porsche” Seinfeld
Charlie Sheen’s & Lindsay Lohan’s bail company executive’s Kia

Sorry, for the pause, looking for a special bottle of wine that can help Hwy to remember the more common folk who might need their cars detailed, quite certain there are many, many, more, maybe MILLIONS more…