A ‘Plan B’ For How To Cope With A Changing Economy
Readers suggested a topic on dealing with the economy. “I’d be interested in hearing people’s thoughts on a ‘Plan B’ for how to cope with a changing economy. To me it seems something has profoundly/permanently changed and all the evolving and contradictory information makes it hard to formulate a (flexible but) strategic plan for going forward. Steps/plans that an average middle-class person can/should take, short of preparations for the apocalypse… It’s not that I don’t have occasional apocalyptic fears, it’s just that it’s not terribly realistic way to plan on a personal level for most of us.”
“Not sure I’d want to live in a ‘mad max’ world, but want to figure out a better way of feeling that I can have a better chance of navigating the continuing turbulence.”
A reply, “Steps/plans that an average middle-class person can.should take…”
-Stop buying
-Start walking
-Learn to sew, plant, repair, cook, re-purpose, DIY.
-Eat two meals a day instead of three
-At home
-Lose fifty pounds and take responsibility for your own health maintenance
-Dump the gashogs, make do with one vehicle
-Buy a bike
-Teach your kids to ride it
-and share a room.
-Get ready to move in with them when you “retire.”
-Don’t buy stuff that comes in packages
-Unplug half your electronics, appliances, furnishings
-Stop using plastic garbage bags–they encourage blind waste.
“Realize that you’re no better than anyone else on the planet, deserve no special entitlements just because you’re An American, got a free ride for two generations on the rest of the planet’s back, got paid three times what you were actually worth, insisted on your cynical little wars, your unfettered consumerism, and your ‘buy now-pay never’ expansionist policies.”
That’s over now.
-Stop blaming ‘The Rich,’ ‘The Poor,’ ‘The Bankers,’ ‘The Builders,’ ‘Everyone but yourself.’ (You DO vote, don’t you?) and…
-Get used to it.”
Another said, “Great response. However, if I lost 50 lbs I’d probably be in bad shape. Perhaps if I amputated a leg or two it’d be doable.”
The Duluth News Tribune. “In a survey this year by the Associated Press and LifeGoesStrong, one in four baby boomers still working said they’ll never retire. Moreover, nearly six of 10 said their workplace retirement plans, personal investments or real estate lost value during the economic crisis of the past three years. Because of that, 42 percent in that group are delaying retirement plans.”
“Malcolm Johannessen sees it a lot. ‘A lot of people have been forced to or chosen to either work later than they had planned or done some sort of hybrid with a partial retirement in trying to supplement their income with some cash income on the side,’ said Johannessen, a foreclosure prevention coordinator for Lutheran Social Service in Duluth.”
“Some people lost their jobs when they were in their 60s and lost their retirement savings as a result, said Johannessen, who estimates between 15 percent and 20 percent of his clients are baby boomers. ‘But a lot of people have also lost everything they had in their retirement when the market crashed.’”
“‘I tell people that I’ll have to work for seven years after I die,’ said Johnny Northfield, 50, of Duluth, who said he went from being in good shape to having almost nothing because of a ‘perfect storm’ financially.”
“A few years ago, Northfield figured he was in good shape for retirement. The Duluth native lived for 15 years in Florida, where for a time he benefited from a booming construction industry. He owned two businesses and was a partner in another. He owned three houses and planned to use them to finance his retirement.”
“Then in 2008 the economy went sour. A business partner died unexpectedly, and that business closed. Another business went from almost 60 employees to just Northfield. One of his sons was a drug addict who cleaned him out of $200,000, he said. His son couldn’t care for his little boys, now ages 4 and 5, so Northfield was awarded permanent guardianship. ‘I left Florida, basically with nothing, and came back to Minnesota, all because I did not want to raise these little boys in Florida,’ said Northfield, who lives in Lincoln Park.”
“But the economy was worse here than he had realized, Northfield said. Finally last summer, he got a job doing compliance audits, mostly in the Twin Cities and Brainerd. That requires being on the road about eight days a month, Northfield said. His grandsons stay with a grandmother during those times. ‘What I’m making in a month now is what I used to sometimes make in a day,’ he said. ‘I have a few thousand dollars left for retirement, which is just laughable.’”
“I did not want to raise these little boys in Florida”
Ben, are you trying to drive me nuts!? Lol… I hate Florida so much I almost moved my family to the Middle East.
“-Learn to sew, plant, repair, cook, re-purpose, DIY.”
I’ve done my part over the past week by preparing homemade sauerkraut, in homage to my country grandmother, who brought up her four sons strong and healthy during the height of the Great Depression. My wife has complained about the smell at points, and it did smell truly bad a few days into the production process, but at this point I am duly impressed that the finished product is one whose flavor and texture would have made Grandma proud. I’m looking forward to serving it next weekend, when a couple of my cousins from that branch of the family join us for dinner.
Sounds delicious! I would love to have a taste.
Me too! I love sauerkraut!
We’ll have to try making some of our own. That sounds like fun.
Sounds tasty. My wife wants the supplies to start making cheese. She does yogurt once a week and it’s great!
“In a survey this year by the Associated Press and LifeGoesStrong, one in four baby boomers still working said they’ll never retire.”
Think about what it does for the already-dismal prospects of new entrants to the labor force, if (1) geezers won’t retire because they have inadequate savings or pension to carry them through their old age, and (2) home prices are artificially propped up on a permanently-high plateau, keeping ‘entry-level’ housing priced at a level where new entrants to the labor force can’t afford to move to where the jobs are.
In our case because the kids may still be in high school as this thing falls apart we’ll probably be providing long term housing to them. As we age, we could create a small apt giving them the rest of the house. Of course once there are spouses in the mix, the house would have to be finally sold. I’m just saying this could prevent some of the 4-5 bedroom inventory from going on the market for a while as late boomers/Gen Y and their kids stay in their present larger homes far beyond the norm.
I know in my grandfather’s day (The First Great Depression) it was common for the kids to contribute through paid labor toward the household. As the oldest, my grandfather was pulled out of school in 8th grade to go to work to help feed his several younger siblings.
As an aside he lost many (3/8) of those siblings to childhood disease which is a horror we don’t realize our present immunization & insurance system keeps at bay.
“we’ll probably be providing long term housing to them”
I expect to be in this same situation - at least for the next few years. And this is one of the reasons I expect to keep working as long as I can. I currently have a good job. I expect that they will struggle in their 20s, even with training and degrees.
“As an aside he lost many (3/8) of those siblings to childhood disease which is a horror we don’t realize our present immunization & insurance system keeps at bay.”
This is something that I think those who hunger for a return to simpler times do not understand. As our health care system becomes unaffordable for most, we will see an increase in childhood mortality. If Medicaid block grants become reality, I hope our states will cover prenatal and infant care. If adults have to fend for themselves, so be it.
This is something that I think those who hunger for a return to simpler times do not understand. As our health care system becomes unaffordable for most, we will see an increase in childhood mortality.
+1. We also have the family stories where the ancestors from the “good old days” lost half their siblings to disease.
And you don’t have to go that far back. On eof my wife’s siblings died in the late 60’s of a congenital heart defect. He might have survived had he been born 30 years later. Of course, none of this is cheap. I have a nephew who is in his teens. His heart was also messed up big time when he was born (it was literally backwards). He’s healthy enough now to play soccer.
I have a nephew who is in his teens. His heart was also messed up big time when he was born (it was literally backwards). He’s healthy enough now to play soccer.
———
That’s awesome, Colorado!
What CarrieAnn said about childhood diseases is so true. Antibiotics and vaccines (and OSHA/labor laws) are some of the main reasons our life expectancies have risen so much over the past 100 years, and the better life expectancy isn’t really because old people are living longer; it’s because young people are making it through childhood and women are making it through pregnancy/childbirth, which used to take the lives of many women in the “good ol’ days.”
“Think about what it does for the already-dismal prospects of new entrants to the labor force, if (1) geezers won’t retire because they have inadequate savings or pension to carry them through their old age”
I have been pounding this drum for a while. Reducing the workweek to 30 hours per week would do a lot toward correcting our unemployment issues. It would enable people of all ages to keep marketable skills sharp. It would reduce the demands on Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, and UI. It would give us all more time to pursue hobbies, exercise, and other interests. To me it just makes a lot more sense than some of us working 50-60 hours and some not working at all.
I think universal health care enables employers (including the self-employed) and employees to pursue this path.
It would enable people of all ages to keep marketable skills sharp.
Do we really need to cap peoples’ hours to allow for that?
There are all kinds of opportunities for people to keep their skills sharp. Carpenters can do projects around the house and for friends/family. Many can donate time/work to nonprofits. Web/software developers can do opensource projects (or iPhone apps, etc).
It may not be that these are looked upon as “work experience” by potential employers, but there’s really no excuse for not keeping your skills sharp, employed or not.
Oh, please. Welcome to the reality of corporate work. If it’s not a valid resume entry, it’s called “period of unemployment”. It’s never about keeping skills sharp. It’s about getting past the keyword hounds in HR. We left individual excellence behind over 10 years ago, and it’s never coming back.
I have to disagree with you here. Freelance, part time work can lead to full time, temporary work, which can ultimately lead to a regular job at a large corporation. I have been at full time, temporary work for several years and could probably get that regular job if I really wanted it. If I hadn’t taken on the freelance, part time work in my last bout of unemployment, the full time, temporary work would not have been there for me.
If it’s not a valid resume entry, it’s called “period of unemployment”.
The subject was keeping skills sharp - not having marketable experience on your resume.
But I agree with Happy here. I was unemployed for nine months. I did side projects to learn new skills and keep my existing ones sharp (the JoshuaTree Extension was one of those projects).
I got some part-time contract work that wasn’t quite in line with my career, but it gave me something to talk about at interviews. That led to full-time work doing something similar (I actually had 3 jobs going at once for a month - two small time contracting and one 40hrs/week contracting). Shortly after that I landed a full-time gig that leveraged work I’d done as a side project.
And I’m still doing contract work on the side related to those interim jobs I had while unemployed (and just raised my rate 15%). I actually got a full-time job offer from that gig as well, but declined as I’m happy with my current day-job.
“Do we really need to cap peoples’ hours to allow for that?
“
It is not so much about capping hours as about making the standard work week 30 hours. Even though the standard work week is 40 now, many people work more and some have multiple jobs.
And I am looking into the future when automation takes over more jobs. We are now seeing automated tellers, automated cashiers, automated warehouses, automated manufacturing, CAD/CAM, office productivity software. I think this trend will continue and more jobs will be replaced by software and machines.
We have upcoming generations who need to enter the workforce and whose contributions need to be recognized by earning pay for their work. We have a large generation of boomers whose exit from the workforce cannot be supported by younger folks.
ISTM that sharing the work is better than some being excluded from work.
Do you have another suggestion?
Do you have another suggestion?
I’m not sure that I do off the top of my head. But your suggestion feels to me like we’re holding everyone back to try to level the playing field.
Honestly, I’ve not put too much thought into what happens when we get to an “automated” society. Perhaps at that point we just simply can’t “support” all the people on this planet.
Maybe the reality is that industrialization was a mistake for our culture/society. We herald it as “progress”, and it is in many ways, but it also has associated negatives.
Or perhaps people will have to go back to supporting themselves. Not having a job, but instead being self-sufficient. Learning trades, growing your own food, and surviving without a job that someone else must pay you for.
I really don’t know.
Could not agree more with your suggestion, Happy2bHeard. Well said.
The Capitalist system has 2 functions, generating wealth and distributing wealth.
The generating part is working fine. The distribution is coming up short on many levels.
“your suggestion feels to me like we’re holding everyone back to try to level the playing field.”
I understand this feeling. I routinely work more than 40 hours per week now, because I need the income. But I know people my age (55-65) who would welcome the opportunity to work fewer hours per week. And I expect that many boomers will welcome the opportunity to work fewer hours after 65 to supplement Social Security and preserve retirement savings. Pairing these folks with new entrants would provide mentoring and a foot in the door for younger folks.
The work week has not always been 40 hours per week.
From Wikipedia:
“The man responsible for instituting the 40-hour-work-week is Massachusetts native of New York George F. Johnson, who announced that no American should have to work more than 40 hours per week. This announcement took effect as a rule on November 1, 1916 in the Endicott-Johnson factories.[4] Johnson had a philosophy to divide all his profits evenly between capital, owners, and workers. Forty hours, to him, represented the even division of a workers’ time during the 5 days he gives his time for the production of goods.
The industrial revolution made it possible for a larger segment of the population to work year-round, since this labor was not tied to the season and artificial lighting made it possible to work longer each day. Peasants and farm laborers moved from rural areas to factories, and working time during the year increased significantly.[5] Before collective bargaining and worker protection laws, there was a financial incentive for a company to maximize the return on expensive machinery by having long hours. Records indicate that work schedules as arduous as twelve to sixteen hours per day, six to seven days per week were practiced in some industrial sites.
The automobile manufacturer, Henry Ford, was an ardent proponent of shorter work hours, which he introduced unilaterally in his own factories. Ford stated that he pursued this policy for business rather than humanitarian reasons. He believed that workers (who were also the main consumers of products) needed adequate leisure time to consume products and thus perceive a need to purchase them. Over the long term, consumer markets needed to be grown. This view of the economy has become the predominant one since then.
Recent studies[6][7] supporting a four-day week have shown that reduced work hours not only increase consumption and invigorate the economy, but also improve worker’s level of education (due to having extra time to take classes and courses) and worker’s health (less work-related stress and extra time for exercise). Reduced hours also save money on day care costs and transportation, which in turn helps the environment with less carbon-related emissions. The aggregate of all these extra benefits actually increases workforce productivity on a per-hour basis.”
The article later mentions some controversy about the economic effects of shortening the work week.
The Capitalist system has 2 functions, generating wealth and distributing wealth.
I’d love to understand your reasoning behind this belief. I certainly agree with “generating wealth”, but why do you say that “distributing wealth” is a function of a capitalist system?
But I know people my age (55-65) who would welcome the opportunity to work fewer hours per week. And I expect that many boomers will welcome the opportunity to work fewer hours after 65 to supplement Social Security and preserve retirement savings. Pairing these folks with new entrants would provide mentoring and a foot in the door for younger folks.
I get the intent. I’d love to work fewer days per year, and would gladly trade salary for more vacation time.
But you suggest reducing the workweek, and thus (presumably) not allowing people to work more if they’d like to make more money. People like you and I would be dragged down. A choice would be taken away from us. I chose to spend yesterday (for you Seattle folks you’ll understand the sacrifice that is - it was the second nice/warm/sunny day of the year) doing contract work so I can take a nice vacation this coming weekend. I don’t agree with legislation that takes that ability away from me.
Right now, I could choose to have fewer days off for more money. And individuals could choose to work 30hrs/week instead of 40.
I see the immediate objection to that - benefits as offered by the employer. Certainly that is something the government can “fix” (they created the problem), but removing incentives for employers to be the provider of things like insurance. As far as sick/vacation time, I’m not sure about that one…
Unemployment insurance is something that legislation could change too..simply define a “full-time” employee as one who works > 20hrs/week or some such (not sure what definition is on the books)
Drumminj,
The Capitalist system attempts to distribute wealth via wages based upon contributions, so someone who brings a lot to the table should receive a better wage and more real wealth. It encourages work, both to acquire valuable skills and to apply them. Without the distribution function, Capitalism fails as there is a lack of motivation to produce adequate wealth to meet societal needs. Other forms of distribution (such as govt or charity) are supplementary.
Al - thanks for the explanation. I think I have a biased definition of “wealth distribution” in my head, so I need to ponder this one a bit…..
People routinely jump on “wealth distribution” as if it means “wealth redistribution.”
“Comment by Ben Jones
2011-04-30 06:48:19
…
But here’s the thing: the Federal Reserve is private, and is owned by Wall Street, literally. But do they steal? Why, we don’t know! They aren’t audited. We know they manipulate, cuz they tell us so. But how much, and does this distort the global economy in ways that cause harm?
The Fed recently was forced to release data on a batch of loans. They put $12 trillion out there, all over the world. Think about that - while our govt trembles over cutting $100 billion here or there, average people are making do with less, this private corporation secretly loans out enough to buy half the houses in this country. Where did they get $12 trillion? Where is that sort of action in their mandate? If it isn’t in their mandate, why aren’t they held to account?
Here’s a curious thing; have you ever heard of a Fed governor being fired? And with the giant screw-ups the Fed has been involved in, wouldn’t a few pink slips be in order?”
Are questions about the above details of the Fed’s operation fair game for the next Bernanke press conference? Because I don’t see how one can get very far with fixing a problem before the problem is even aired, discussed and debated; isn’t that the American way?
More fodder for future Fed press conference questions:
A large share of recent American home sales transactions are reportedly due to investors buying homes with cash, crowding out middle-class American households and families who might be interested in buying homes but don’t have several hundred thousand dollars in cash available for the purpose and who can’t qualify for a loan due to newly tightened lending standards.
How much of the cash going in to these investments represents a slice of the $12t the Fed loaned out on a discriminatory basis at or near zero percent interest rates, for which American households and small businesses don’t qualify because they are not deemed “too-big-to-fail”?
And so long as the Fed is in the business of offering free insurance against economic collapse, shouldn’t American families and small businesses be the first to qualify, as they are far more vulnerable than, say, Wall Street Megabanks such as Citigroup, Wells Fargo, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan-Chase, Bank of America, etc etc etc?
“How much of the cash going in to these investments represents a slice of the $12t the Fed loaned out on a discriminatory basis at or near zero percent interest rates, for which American households and small businesses don’t qualify because they are not deemed “too-big-to-fail”?”
I posted about this the other day. The same people who made the bad loans on real estate, and should have burned for them, are buying up the prime real estate for pennies on the dollar, at the expense of every decent human being in this country.
Excellent questions, PB. Good luck trying to get an answer, though!
Gradually it begins to dawn on me that a primary purpose of the Fed’s press conferences is to feign openness while giving BB full control over what questions are allowed. You can expect endless conjecture about at what point the Fed’s extended period of low rates will end, and no questions about the qualification rules for $10t+ in zero-percent interest bailout loans made to banks of all descriptions and national affiliations. Anyone who asks a substantive or off-limits question can quickly be replaced in the BB press-briefing pool by another reporter.
I think most people don’t have the cajones to make a ten year commitment to be a super saver. By super saver, of course, I mean one must earn as much income as he honestly can, avoid as much taxation as he honestly can, and save a HUGE amount while being frugal.
Series I bond variable rates the next six months are going to be 2.3%. If you were a super saver ten years ago you would of course have some 3% fixed rate I bonds. They will earn 5.3% the next six months.
Some of the sacrifice for being a super saver includes having few possessions and traveling light. In my case I will be retired and my suitcases will be mothballed by the time most others catch on.
I suppose I will be flamed for this, but this is the topic of Ben’s thread and I am an expert at it. I expect to be knocked for preparing very well for “the apocalypse.”
“I think most people don’t have the cajones to make a ten year commitment to be a super saver.”
I obviously do not have an MBA, but I am assuming to get one you do not have to take a class called “Don`t spend more than you earn”.
In deep debt and feeling ‘like a hamster on a treadmill’
By Liz Weston Posted: 8:55 p.m. Friday, April 29, 2011
Dear Liz: I am 54 and my wife is 49. Because of a career change I made four years ago and my wife’s layoff, we have run up $50,000 in credit card debt and $61,000 on a home equity line of credit. In addition, our home is worth at least $40,000 less than what we owe on it.
I have tried twice for a loan modification, but was turned down. We had a late payment one month, so the bank will not consider a refinance for at least a year.
We are current on everything, but just barely. We have no savings because we use all our income for bills. We have a child in college and another who is a junior in high school preparing for college.
I feel like a hamster on a treadmill just waiting for a total financial collapse and certainly have no hope of ever retiring. In addition, I totally hate my job and its industry and feel like I’m in living hell. I have an MBA, but think I may need more training to make me more competitive in the job market. Any suggestions?
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/money/in-deep-debt-and-feeling-like-a-hamster-1443919.html - 75k -
I feel like a hamster on a treadmill just waiting for a total financial collapse and certainly have no hope of ever retiring. In addition, I totally hate my job and its industry and feel like I’m in living hell. I have an MBA, but think I may need more training to make me more competitive in the job market…..I feel like a hamster on a treadmill just waiting for a total financial collapse and certainly have no hope of ever retiring.
Ah, yes the American dream. It was a dream for some people. It was a dream to all that profited from convincing us any of this was necessary at any price. You know the ones. They’re sitting on their cashed in riches which have been reinvested in areas protected against any coming collapse. They must laugh at how easy it was and how the people bought in hook, line and sinker simpy by inferring that if we didn’t go all in we were losers. They used our egos or our desire to have a leg up on our neighbor as a tool for our own destruction. This is the lesson most Americans still have yet to learn and so I think Bill is spot on when he says he doesn’t see most people becoming frugal.
“This is the lesson most Americans still have yet to learn and so I think Bill is spot on when he says he doesn’t see most people becoming frugal.”
Why become frugal when it is so much easier and seemingly socially acceptable to become a victim.
You’re not kidding.
“I think most people don’t have the cajones”
You mean cojones. A cajon is a box or a drawer.
Wasn’t there a serial killer that kept a cajon full of cojones?
+1 LOL!
Thanks for correcting me. I consult my favorite dictionary, the urban dictionary
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cajones
I did not take Spanish in school. Took French. Wanted to live in Tahiti where the Asian women go topless all day and speak French.
Don’t sweat it, its actually an archaic expression anyway (When I lived in Mexico Ciy, no one said “cojones”). In modern Mexico the more contemporary slang word is “huevos”
But “hay huevos” and “tiene huevos” are two totally different things, right?
“I think most people don’t have the cajones to make a ten year commitment to be a super saver. By super saver, of course, I mean one must earn as much income as he honestly can, avoid as much taxation as he honestly can, and save a HUGE amount while being frugal.”
This is where a lack of dependents can offer a HUGE advantage.
Yeah, kids do tie you down quite a bit, and limit your earning options.
Yeah, kids do tie you down quite a bit, and limit your earning options.
Yep. And that’s why some (myself included) are making a conscious decision to avoid that.
I have no clue how I’m going to be financially secure *without* kids. I haven’t the slightest idea how people can have a family and do it…
It’s a conundrum, to be sure, and I take responsibility for my own decisions. In case there was any possible misunderstanding of my comment, I respect the decision of anyone to either have kids or not. In fact, twenty years ago (before I started seriously dating my wife), I was on the verge of traveling down the “happily single, no kids” path myself. And my next younger sister, who traveled this road, seems to find a great deal of satisfaction in other areas of life, and is far less pinched for cash than we are, to boot.
“…limit your earning options.”
As well as your housing options. We could afford to live in a smaller home and save one hour of each our of my life spent fighting traffic if we had one less child to house (or if the federal government hadn’t stepped in to prop up housing prices, for that matter…).
…one hour of each
ourday of my life…(never post while talking with your wife…)
“I haven’t the slightest idea how people can have a family and do it…”
Well, there’s lots of ways:
1. I am very clear about my conditions and limits at work. For some reason, it’s o.k. to ditch a meeting to pick up the kids, but anyone else is looked down on. This may change, but it hard to be pissed at the education guy who is looking out for his own kids. Nobody gives me grief.
2. Hand me downs from relatives
3. Trading, giving, bartering, etc. with colleagues, friends and family
4. Parks. I am the master of public parks.
5. I agree with walking. It’s probably one of the greatest ways to clear your mind, see something new, say, “hello” to somebody and it’s all free.
6. I told my Dr. I couldn’t afford one of the scripts he wrote… he dumped a 90 day supply on the table and said, ‘here you go.”
7. Honesty. Watch “The Shark Tank.” Those are the kinds of decisions people should behaving about a lot of things. Say, “I can’t afford that” or, “can you do any better on the price?”
8. Travel, camp, hike, public parks again… those are the best family vacations anyway. Not free, but way cheaper than Mickey.
Great post Muggy - I agree with everything on your list.
8. Travel, camp, hike, public parks again… those are the best family vacations anyway. Not free, but way cheaper than Mickey.
I am curious to see how the House of Mouse will hold up when the SHTF. One thing they have done in the past decade is remarket themselves to a wealthier demographic. I think they have pretty much given up on the “Martha, get the kids into the station wagon, we’re going to Disneyland/World” demographic. In fact, they are marketing heavily to childless and unconventional couples.
Muggy:
Here is a killer
Talk to your parents about their end of life needs (hopefully cremation) And transfer the house to the kids so when the old folks get sick they can get on medicaid…
drumminj,
I suspect you are 30ish (IIRC). There is good and bad about not having kids. Once I got to 50 I asked myself where time has gone? And my ex gife (look that up in urban dictionary) said that if she and I had children they would be beautiful. She was right (sigh), but that was the tradeoff.
I will get long term care insurance. It worked well with my aunt and uncle who had no kids. I know, since I was their trustee and I signed the checks to pay for their care, as well as pay for their insurance from the bank account. My uncle planned well in advance since he knew by not having kids he will need to elect a relative a trustee. My niece will at least be sure that my assisted living home where I live in my dying days will be the most luxurious with ocean or mountain views - if I am lucky enough to see…). My niece has some growing up to do, but she will be financially secure if she is a good steward(ess?) of the money.
My life totally changed after September 11, 2001. While most people thought it wiser to hide in McMansions from the terrorists, I became more diversified and saved far more money. I swore off the past life I had of trying to fit in, to get a girlfriend and to eventually marry and do what J6P does. I focused on building my net worth. September 11 was the time the crisis officially started (in my opinion) and has been ongoing. The crisis (caused by being the world cop) started decades earlier, but I was scared that America is very screwed. I did not see any future at the way we were going. We are still going the same direction, even though the current occupant of the oval office in D.C. claims to be the opposite of the previous occupant.
drumminj,
I suspect you are 30ish (IIRC). There is good and bad about not having kids.
You’re right (ish), and yes, I realize there is good and bad, as with all choices in life. My comment was directed specifically at the day to day cost of supporting a family. I really struggle to see how one could support a significant other (assuming they’re not working - like a stay at home mom/dad), let alone kid(s) as well.
I do well for myself, and save quite a bit. I’m sure I could make it work if I were devoted to. But the reality is I have no desire to live that kind of life.
I opted out of having kids because I just couldn’t bear the thought of *my* children growing up in a third world banana republic that was at one time the greatest country on the planet. The prospect of eventually trying to explain to them that Americans actually walked on the moon but the country still ultimately disintegrated as a functional society due to stupid greed and simple apathy just was too depressing to contemplate.
“…couldn’t bear the thought of *my* children growing up in a third world banana republic that was at one time the greatest country on the planet…”
I used to share such thoughts. But gradually, over the years, I have come to believe that the present is not significantly better or worse than the past; just another version of earthly reality.
Take my maternal grandma’s experience: She was fond of often saying, towards the end of her days, that “the world is going crazy.” Somehow it slipped her mind that she had endured many “crazy times,” including WWI, the Spanish Flu Epidemic, The Great Depression, WWII, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, etc etc etc, long before her growing concern over problems in the late 20th century.
Then on to my parents: They grew up in the American heartland during the Great Depression. Used to cut holes in burlap sacks to be used as underwear (fondly known as “flour sack drawers”). Had to get up at 4a to tend the livestock, which was their local source of sustenance. Upwards of 80% of my dad’s mom’s time was spent planning and executing in-house food production, all the way from the field or the livestock pen to the dinner table.
I think my folks had a better middle age than I do, from the standpoint of having free time on their hands for friends and relaxation, but this is probably just my own subjective bias, and probably my own fault for not carving out these comforts in my own life. I know for sure that my kids, with all their human frailties, have so-far caused us much less grief than my siblings caused my parents.
As for this once being the greatest country on the planet, at what point exactly was that time? It seems like we have spent a great deal of our national existence first establishing independence from Great Britain, then trying to establish and preserve our identity. There have always been problems along the way. When you find the perfect planet to live on, kindly share your insight with HBB posters so we can join you there.
“I have no clue how I’m going to be financially secure *without* kids. I haven’t the slightest idea how people can have a family and do it…”
We left California for eastern Washington in order to make ends meet, and apply the difference toward the 401k account. Up here, mom doesn’t have to work, and the housing costs at the end of the dot-com crash were $80/sqft for new spec construction. We bought just enough house to be comfortable, we avoided new car purchases, and I located close to work so I could ride my commuter bicycle daily provided the weather cooperates.
We have two children, early teens now, and they have everything they need from dental and medical care to musical instruments and sporting equipment, all paid for out of pocket. I’ll admit that I’m a little worried their about college costs, but we’ll deal with it better than the average Joe when the time arrives.
I’m now down to $8,100 on my mortgage, my only debt, and it’ll be paid in full this August. My net worth is roughly $250k, and I’m in my mid fifties, so I’m way behind, but I still have ten years of working life remaining. Get this - thirteen years ago I was $22k in student loan debt with a pretty wife and a year old baby daughter!
“We left California for eastern Washington in order to make ends meet, and apply the difference toward the 401k account.”
I have my eye on Spokane as a possible future escape route from overpriced, broke-back California. Is that where you are located? If not, where?
“My net worth is roughly $250k, and I’m in my mid fifties, so I’m way behind, but I still have ten years of working life remaining. Get this - thirteen years ago I was $22k in student loan debt with a pretty wife and a year old baby daughter!”
Sounds to me like you are doing great! Just be sure to balance health concerns (e.g., get adequate R&R, don’t work yourself to death) against work obligations, and I think you will be one of the prudent folks who can look forward to a middle-class retirement…
“I have my eye on Spokane as a possible future escape route from overpriced, broke-back California. Is that where you are located? If not, where?”
We are in the Columbia Basin area between Ephrata and Moses Lake in Grant county. Seattle is 3-hrs away, Spokane 2-hrs, which makes this a poor location for those with serious health issues. The six-month winters are really wearing me down. I was born and raised in the San Francisco bay area, and we lived in the San Luis Obispo area near Morro Bay before moving up here.
“It’s a conundrum, to be sure”
If I ever have another kid I am gonna call him or her Conundrum. Or, maybe I`ll skip the other kid (they are expensive) and start a business printing T-shirts, balloons and cigar wrappers that say “Congratulations it`s a Conundrum!
Or you could name him or her Addition.
‘With the equity we pulled out, we didn’t buy a Hummer. We adopted a baby,’ says Steve, 31. ‘We bought a home that we could comfortably afford. Our mistake was the addition, but we didn’t know it was a mistake at the time.’
True story
When our kids were younger they played fast pitch softball. One of the kids in the league name was Lexus (Lexi for short) anyway, I was talking to her parents one day and they told me they weren’t expecting to have another child but they were planning on buying a Lexus for the wife. When they found out they were having a little girl, the wife picked the name because it was the only way she was going to get a Lexus.
From PBear’s link:
“It took Del Piero a month to review the Chapter 7 petition of Monterey dermatologist Bob Keller and his wife, Suzanne, going through calculations on the value of several different businesses – one of which had gone bankrupt, forcing him into personal bankruptcy – and other assets, including a boat. Keller, a specialist in anti-aging and cosmetic procedures including liposuction and Botox, still runs Dr. Keller Solutions, though his once prestigious Keller Medical Institute closed down. With investments in several companies, including Monterey Urgent Care and Keller Protective Institute, Del Piero thought there were too many assets to qualify for Chapter 7, and instead proposed Chapter 13 at a hearing in March.
The matter is still pending in court.
“We just got caught in the credit crunch,” Keller says. After investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in lasers and medical equipment, the housing market collapsed – and people stopped spending money on cosmetic procedures.
Keller says he cut back from 15 employees to one. “But still, the numbers just don’t work out,” he says.
He knows eight other local doctors who declared bankruptcy last year. Medical debt can drive patients to the bring of economic disaster, but the system for doctors can be equally “devastating,” Keller says.”
Keller is in a luxury business. It is not just a credit crunch. I go to a dermatologist once every year or two for a skin cancer screening. There are too many dermatologists for that kind of business to support, so most of them have gotten into cosmetic work. Now that people can’t afford it, they are hurting.
I do think even GPs and dentists are experiencing a downturn in business. With food and gas taking more of people’s budgets, there is less for even routine and necessary care. I would expect that drug companies have seen business fall. If a choice must be made between an expensive drug for a condition that may kill in 10 or 20 years (like mildly high cholesterol) or eating today, most people will choose to eat today.
I have definitely seen wait times shrink at my GP’s office. I have to go in tomorrow, as I got a case of pink eye over the weekend. I wouldn’t be surprised if I got in first thing in the morning.
I would expect that drug companies have seen business fall. If a choice must be made between an expensive drug for a condition that may kill in 10 or 20 years (like mildly high cholesterol) or eating today, most people will choose to eat today.
Ah, the wonders of HD plans! That said, there are cheap cholesterol drugs out here, but your point is well taken.
Also from PB’s link:
“After Shannon and Steve couldn’t find a buyer for their Seaside home in late 2007, they declared bankruptcy in 2008 to stay up to date on mortgage payments, planning to wait out the recession. This month, they received foreclosure notification after the bank denied a modification to lower their monthly payments on their second mortgage. (Bankruptcy filings are public record, but the Weekly agreed to use only first names for some who shared their stories.)
The couple shed some $60,000 of credit card debt in their Chapter 13 bankruptcy, which allows debtors to pay back part of what they owe to keep some property. They used that credit card for a major addition to the house they bought for $300,000 in 2003. Steve, a carpenter, spent weekends adding a second floor and backyard, doing what he says is $170,000 worth of labor himself. They planned to sell the house, hoping to make $300,000 for themselves and their adopted infant daughter. The adoption cost them $18,000 – and despite their financial plight, they hope to start the process anew this year to adopt a second child.”
———————
So…it wasn’t the “love” for their home that made them try to hang onto it, as they were going to sell it before prices crashed. No, it was the fact that they couldn’t make a profit on the sale of the house that made them decide to file for bankruptcy. They were going to “wait out the recession” in order to sell. These people are pure scum. They are not honoring their word when they promised to pay their lenders — lenders who have lost money as a result of these greedy pigs. The house probably could have been sold for more in 2007 than it would fetch now, which means that their delay tactic forced even greater losses onto their lenders’ books.
BTW, can somebody please explain to me how a foreclosure can cause bankruptcy? It seems to me that, in an anti-deficiency state, a foreclosure would help PREVENT bankruptcy, as the foreclosure eliminates what is probably the larges and most burdensome debt of all.
What am I missing?
No Bill, I do not think you should be flamed for choosing to be a super-saver. But your super-saving lifestyle also involves staying single, not having children, living like a nomad, and lucking into a career where jobs are plentiful even if you have to travel to do thsoe jobs.
At the moment, being a super-saver will help you to get ahead, far ahead, of the average American household. But what I am afraid of is that your lifestyle will become the new normal. Maybe that sounds outlandish, but is it? 50 years ago, a working Mom was outlandish; now it’s the new normal. Young couples forgoing children because they can’t afford to house them was unheard of; it’s swiftly becoming the new normal. A college grad not finding a job used to be a sign of a lazy deliquent, now it’s the sign of the times.
That’s why I don’t like your lifestyle, Bill the Nomad. You’re like the shepherd in the Tragedy of the Commons who expands his flock, thus beginning the death spiral of society. The rest of us have to expand our flocks just to keep up, even though we know it will eventually destroy the commons. That is what is going to happen to America.
Yeah, it is kind of frightening. Children are supposed to be the hope of humanity. I don’t have the answers except everything works in cycles. At some point it will be very rewarding for the average person to become a parent. I think within twenty years, and I mean at least in the USA.
I don’t like my lifestyle either. Travel saps my energy. But the alternative was worse. Instead of whining, I will cash in along the way. Two more years of this, I keep saying to myself. Then permanently out at the far west.
I hope this works out for you. I think you are probably diversified in your investments. But I would be worried at saving for 10 years to set myself up for 30. 30 years is a long time and a lot can go wrong.
And this is another reason I expect to work as long as I can. My grandmothers lived to be 89 and 103. My parents are 86 and 90 and still going strong. If I were to retire at 65, I would have to plan on savings carrying me for 30 years or more. I just don’t have confidence that the future is predictable. We are in a period of rapid change. Continuing to work gives me the best chance at being able to adapt.
Thanks. Rebalance in the asset mix once a year and first build up a good amount in the total assets.
Big San Andreas earthquake in California will take the Dow down to 10000 I think. I think it won’t be earthquake/tsunami/nuke radiation, just a very major quake. Japan’s Nikkei dropped 25% because they had the triple whammy.
Part of your asset allocation should be in cash equivalents. I have cash to dump into the stock market and stock mutual funds in my brokerage accounts the next opportunity of trading after a natural disaster. Nikkei went down to 8600 from 10600 and up to 9600 within one week.
So the other time you want to rebalance is the panic time of natural disasters. Which, I’m sorry to tell the pesssimists here, are … rare.
I don’t disagree, but I would keep that on the QT because it looks heartless. It doesn’t have to even be a natural disaster. After one bad event, one of the terrorist attacks in Europe maybe — Brit Hume, at the anchor desk at Fox News, was caught saying “hmmm, time to buy.” On national TV.
It was a pretty disgusting thing to say on camera, especially for someone like Brit Hume who is clearly a millionaire, set for life, and doesn’t need another few G’s. However, for us little peons, cashing in on a disaster may be the only way to survive a retirement. I guess the most polite way to buy on a disaster dip is to keep cash a cash account at the brokerage, ready to transfer into a at any timet, and then do an online transfer into an equity account online at the brokerage. It’s possible that no except a computer would know.
I have a bridge I want to persuade you to buy if you think none of the socialist journalists (Bob Beckel, Quentin Hardy, Juan Williams, - on Fox, Bill Maher) are not millionaires.
did not intend the double negative. But you get the gist
Oh, they’re all millionaires. I don’t grouse at their being rich (I wonder what their taxes are). The point is that they did not SAY “time to buy” after a disaster, although they may have thought it. Hume was too obvious in telegraphing that he intended to profit from human suffering, even though he already has plenty of money.
“I don’t like my lifestyle either. Travel saps my energy.”
Can always be worse (e.g., travel + kids…).
Yes, that’s definitely worse, by an order of magnitude.
Really thought you made some really strong points in this post oxide. I just want to point out one area where I take exception:
“Young couples forgoing children because they can’t afford to house them was unheard of”
My mother was a child in the 40s. No one today would ever consider living in a home as small as she and the other 5 people in her family did. But in my grandfather’s retirement that house was paid off and his savings paid for them and then his wife to live for 40 years w/o income. If people want to give up children for a higher discretionary income that’s fine but as we return back to a baseline lifestyle most people will not have the sq ft/person that we have today.
I don’t disagree. What I was referring to was that in my area, the only thing a young couple could afford was a 2-bed condo. It’s not impossible, but it is cramped.
Well considering computers, iphones, 3 inch thick wall tv’s, and only us music nutz and dj’s still the space for a thousand or two records and cd’s add in a functional basement or attic, coupled with a nice yard and the house could be a 1200 sq ft footprint or less
but as we return back to a baseline lifestyle most people will not have the sq ft/person that we have today.
the ‘changes’ suggested in plan B look like the same countercultural agenda from nearly 50 years ago, and the same old critique of fat vile amerika.
I subscribed to the Mother Earth News way back from issue 1. I bought a farm, but went corporate to make money off my Engineering degree. I participated to the best of my ability in the credit expansion, until about a decade ago.
So, I made changes. Got out of the mortgaged house and rented something 1/4 the size. Paid everything off years ago living on 1/3 of my income. Kept right at it and saved the money. Practiced cooking at home and some silly old fashioned things like canning. Rolling my own and indulging less, home brew, & etc. Experimented with less expensive nutritious foods. Blah, blah, blah. Bycycle, blah, blah, blah.
Hey, I still need to lose 10 more pounds!
The best depression is the one you’re kinda prepared for.
Dump Mother Earth News. They’ve gone yuppie.
Try Backwoods Home. Much more useful for the homesteaders, and you’d like their politics. They are online too. I’m still considering buying their “Whole Shebang:” everything they published, ever, for about ~$300.
I had always hoped the world would rise to Western standards, but it has become very clear this is a race to the bottom and what is left of the west is under siege.
On a positive note, I AM on my way to losing 50lbs, in great part thanks to being cubicle free for 2 and a half years. Of course a weight training program and walking 30 miles a week helps along with a somewhat restrictive diet.
The third world needs to adjust their thinking from “why do Americans deserve more than the rest of us” TO “we deserve as much or more than Americans”. It is a subtle change in thinking, but what would be wrong with a world where everyone was middle class? We no longer need the cheap labor to make stuff thanks to robotics and automation, so why poverty and starvation, and not plenty?
In the mean time, my business is in the third year at a loss and we spend very little, so at least where I come from we have gone from paying some $30,000 a year in tax to paying virtually none. I doubt I am alone, so I cannot see where our government can go on forever without income from taxation. And while not wanting a discussion on pension excess, seriously WHO will pay (is paying?) all these obligations?
Congrats on your discipline and hard work, GH. These stories inspire others.
Just a reminder for some scale watchers. Muscle weighs more than fat. Make it about how good you look and feel. When training for my tri I lost less than 10 pounds but went down 2 sizes and had people telling me they were worried about me because I was getting too small. No, not too small. Just all muscle. Some people gain lbs. when they start a new work out. Don’t worry. Once you talk your body through repeated demands into needing to become more efficient you’ll start to see the desired changes.
seriously WHO will pay (is paying?) all these obligations?
I think this has been laid out here several times. As Ben likes to point out, most of it is being covered by debt which may never be repaid (or will be repaid by future generations.
As far as the gov’t current income, 50% of the population is contributing to some degree (to federal income). The top 10% income earners are paying the bulk of it.
The top 10% income earners are paying the bulk of it.
——————–
Probably because they have all the money, no?
It’s kinda difficult to pay taxes when you have NO money.
Probably because they have all the money, no?
It’s kinda difficult to pay taxes when you have NO money.
Was my response not a direct (and correct) answer to the question posed?
Notice that we’re taxed on income, not on “what we have left over”. A much larger than 10% has income. Having “NO” money is a question of what you have left over - possibly due to basic necessities, and possibly due to bad choices.
“Realize that you’re no better than anyone else on the planet, deserve no special entitlements just because you’re An American, got a free ride for two generations on the rest of the planet’s back, got paid three times what you were actually worth, insisted on your cynical little wars, your unfettered consumerism, and your ‘buy now-pay never’ expansionist policies.”
Which poster wrote this misplaced, hissing, spitting little piece of nastiness?
Yeah, I’m better than a LOT of people on this planet, both in the US and outside of it. Many folks on this blog are. Never got a free ride on the rest of the planet’s back, to my knowledge. Never participated in or supported any cynical little war. Always hated consumerism and don’t agree with expansionist policies, mainly because it usually exposes me to folks who feel exactly like that.
But, it is a useful post to read, because it’s good for the decent citizens of this country to realize the resentment that exists on the planet and what they are now exposed to, because of their stupid “leaders”.
“Never got a free ride on the rest of the planet’s back, to my knowledge.”
Cheap oil, cheap 3rd world made goods, cheap food. You may not have seen it, but that doesn’t mean that you didn’t benefit from the misery of others. Even those of us who have worked all of our adult lives and paid taxes have contributed to inequities.
“Yeah, I’m better than a LOT of people on this planet, both in the US and outside of it.”
What makes you better? I am not saying you aren’t, but you might benefit from a close examination of this belief.
I also feel that there are many who are better than me in many ways, and I am happy to defer to them. I know ‘em when I see ‘em. Or hear ‘em. Or read ‘em.
I’m not a Communist. And I’m not going to wallow in someone else’s guilt, or allow them to impose their guilt on me.
I am not a Communist either. And I make it a point not to wallow in guilt. But I also make it a point to investigate and acknowledge the effect that my lifestyle has on the world.
And insist on being unrelentingly honest with myself. Answering the question, “What makes me better than someone else” leads to an examination of my values. But then, self-examination is one of the things that makes me better than others.
“Which poster wrote this misplaced, hissing, spitting little piece of nastiness?”
Right here, Sweetie.
I had always hoped the world would rise to Western standards, but it has become very clear this is a race to the bottom and what is left of the west is under siege.
And don’t forget that a tiny minority will wind up with all the wealth that the other 6 billion worker bees toil to create, regardless of their nationality.
Comment by GH
2011-05-01 09:49:21
I had always hoped the world would rise to Western standards, but it has become very clear this is a race to the bottom and what is left of the west is under siege.
The third world needs to adjust their thinking from “why do Americans deserve more than the rest of us” TO “we deserve as much or more than Americans”. It is a subtle change in thinking, but what would be wrong with a world where everyone was middle class? We no longer need the cheap labor to make stuff thanks to robotics and automation, so why poverty and starvation, and not plenty?
Good God, GH!! You’re starting to sound like one of us commie, pro-union thugs!
“Retirement” is purely a western 20th century creation. A company *retired* older workers and *rehired* new workers. The traditional meaning of retirement does not align with reality based retirement. There will be no traditional retirement for anyone under 55. Get used to that fact. Nobody wants to hear it and I mean NOBODY. Not even Mrs. RAL. The imbecilic mind of the general public looks at what their parents retirement experience is/was and think it’s reality. It’s as though they think the world and everything around them is static. They’re going to be psychologically crushed sooner or later.
I remember in the 80’s I saw an insurance company commerical bragging that they gave retirees a break on their auto insurance. A guy resting in a hammock says: “and how do you retire? you just quit working.”
My first thought was: And how do you pay the bills?
Simple. By then, your kids are out of college. You have a paid off car. You have a paid off mortgage. You have Medicare. So your only expenses are food, gas, insurance, taxes, some medical care, and probably cable to keep you busy. Social Security and a pension should cover all those expenses quite nicely. That’s the American dream.
+1
‘“Retirement” is purely a western 20th century creation…’
As is living very long past age 65…
My point being that I will never retire like my parents did and still are. I will always be earning wages doing something…. likely at a cash register or greeting at walmart. I’ve resigned myself to it.
Look forward to joining you out front of Big Box Mart in a couple of decades, then!
There it is….. Mopping aisle 9… That’s my retirement. No joking.
“Uploaded by JibJab on Oct 16, 2007″
In retrospect, that Big Box Mart video was amazingly well timed, as onset of the Great Recession was only two months hence (December 2007).
It shows that anyone with a few brain cells could tell that this was our destiny…long before any “credit crisis” supposedly derailed our wealth train.
Great video!
‘I left Florida, basically with nothing, and came back to Minnesota, all because I did not want to raise these little boys in Florida,’ said Northfield, who lives in Lincoln Park.”
Yes, but his son is from Minnesota and a drug addict. Perhaps the problem with Florida is the carpetbaggers like Mr. Northfield who come just to skim the cream, fail and head back up north blaming their failure on geography.
“Perhaps the problem with Florida is the carpetbaggers like Mr. Northfield who come just to skim the cream, fail and head back up north blaming their failure on geography.”
+1, CrackerBob. Florida is one tough state and people don’t know how to live with it. They always come from somewhere else and think they’re going to show Florida how it’s done, until Florida shows them.
I’ve been spending some time researching Western North Carolina as a future place to live and let me tell you, people need to really research an area before they move there. North Carolina has inherited a lot of disappointed former Floridians who are now finding out maybe it isn’t so bad here, especially when it comes to utility bills. Wheee-ooooooo, that’s some expensive chit, man.
CB, I have lived in a lot of places, and FL by far has the worst drug problems. If you’re a native, I mean no offense, just sharing my observation.
Which brings me to another point: I think it’s going to be important to be a part of a community in the coming years. If you live in a Mega-sprawl area like the Greater Tampa Region, I think that is very hard to do, as walking is near impossible. Living in an appropriately scaled community, IMHO, is the first step towards reasonable living.
Once upon a time, there was a couple who didn’t like the area they were living in. So they found an another area they thought they’d like and took a road trip to check it out.
They passed a farm house by the side of the road with an old farmer sitting on his porch, smoking a pipe in the late afternoon. They turned around and pulled up, got out and started talking to him. They asked him how he liked the area.
“I like it fine”, he said. “How do you like it where you’re from?”.
“Not much”, the husband replied. “That’s why we’re checking out other places to live”.
The farmer asked “You really don’t like it where you’re from?”
“No”, said the wife.
The farmer took a pull on his pipe, exhaled with contentment, and squinted into the setting sun. “Well”, he said, “You won’t like it here.”
Niiiice!
LOL. I like it in NY, where I am from. I lived on the Gulf south of Lafayette, LA and I liked it there too. Good people are everywhere. Bugs, sometimes more so.
And drugs are EVERYWHERE. One of my sibs in the Northeast has to contend with medicated folks day in and day out. Of course, they have prescriptions, which I guess makes it OK.
Brave New World.
1. I like where I am from. I also liked living in Buffalo, Hoboken, Murfreesboro and Evanston. In fact, I was back and forth on FL until I had kids.
2. Sure, drugs are everywhere, but the problem IS bad here.
3. Are you disagreeing about the scale of Tampa?
I don’t live in Tampa proper, I’m well outside of it. It’s not the most livable city in the world, for sure, but it has some decent pockets, if you look for them. I’d rather be here than in NYC. That’s where I’m “from”, so to speak, since I was born there. So I’m guilty of not liking it there, I suppose, but I like it well enough here and have for a number of years.
Asheville, for example, is supposed to be one of the most “livable” cities in the US. But if you don’t have an independent source of income, I understand making a living there can be extremely tough. So how livable is it, really, if you can find a gig there?
I meant “can’t”. Sheesh.
Palmy:
That’s one reason I left SC.. remember everything you need to buy to live on or start a business costs the same in NYC or in Asheville….but the pay you get is Half.
The key is to make money here, own everything outright, then go south..
But if you don’t have an independent source of income, I understand making a living there can be extremely tough. So how livable is it, really, if you can find a gig there?
Ask that old farmer where he got his house and land. Did he buy it for cheap, or did he inherit it from Daddy? Ask him how much Social Security he’s getting. How many farm subsidies did he collect, both for growing corn or for not growing wheat? Ask if he has a pension from somewhere. Ask how he paid off his college loans.
That reminds me a lot of my aunt. They lived in a number of places all over the world due to my uncle’s career and she hated every single place … while they were living there. As soon as they moved to a new city or country, all of sudden the previous location was absolutely marvellous and the greatest thing since sliced bread and the current location was h3ll on earth. Needless to say, she was never a happy woman.
One of my sisters, closest to my age, drove me nuts by always hating her new hairdo after going to a hairstylist. Invariably.
In the punk days in the early 80s, once she had it colored red.
Of course I was cruel.
Bozo was my name for her. Yeah she hated that “do” when she came back from the hair stylist.
I had my fun in those day. Hoo boy!
I always found the first 6 months after a move to be the most difficult.
I have seen reports of studies that an individual’s degree of happiness does not vary much. Life events can temporarily alter this, but after a period of adjustment, it returns to normal. This applies to good fortune, like lottery winners, and to bad fortune, like accidents that cause paralysis.
Out west we have a nasty meth problem, especially in the rural areas. It has decimated entire communities. I don’t think there’s a worse drug, but it seems to be more of a west coast thing, with a few midwest areas getting in on the scene (Missouri, Oklahoma).
In suburban Seattle, prescription drug abuse is rampant in the schools. I think it is just easy to get. Kids steal it from their parents’ medicine cabinets. Som of them move on to heroin after getting addicted to prescription opiates.
I think we are realizing we had the luxury of being Politically Correct for the last 40 years……and its OVER!
I see more hard edge questioning of “victims”. You want welfare, well how can you afford an I-phone, new clothes and those, nails and weaves?
You want mortgage help???….Just where did that 100G you liberated go to?….come on don’t be shy, tell us how you pizzzed it away…fess up!
I also think we should end extended unemployment benefits (99 weeks is pathetic)…Unless you are in school or in an “intern” job to keep your job skills fresh
you get 26 weeks to be lazy…but starting on the 27th you have to be doing something productive.
——————————————
That’s over now.
-Stop blaming ‘The Rich,’ ‘The Poor,’ ‘The Bankers,’ ‘The Builders,’ ‘Everyone but yourself.’ (You DO vote, don’t you?) and…
-Get used to it.”
You DO vote, don’t you?
I do vote and it never does any good. Most of the time the sheeple get their way paid for by well financed corporations or lobbying groups and even when they do not, it is pretty easy for a Federal Judge to rule against the election result anyway when the result is inconvenient.
The if you voted you get what you deserved and if you did not vote you get what you deserved seems a lot like BS to me!
The fact is that the best vote is to make them hurt in the wallet. I love the starve the monkeys theory! It does not work very well, because the monkeys still have a big fat credit card which means a lot of borrowing is going on, but not much starving.
“I-phone”
Are you sure these folks are on welfare? I have seen beggars with cell phones, but an ordinary pay as you go phone can run as little as $20 per month. If I were homeless or on welfare, I might think that was a necessary expense, especially in light of the dearth of pay phones these days.
“new clothes “
Are you sure they are new? One of my sons is adept at finding places where he can buy decent clothes for a few dollars per pound.
“nails and weaves”
This may have been acquired through a trade. I know of someone who traded guitar lessons for tattoos.
“you get 26 weeks to be lazy…but starting on the 27th you have to be doing something productive.”
Or out on the street. This is lazy and unproductive thinking. Who are you to say that someone unemployed for 26 weeks has been unproductive? Not everyone who is unable to find a job can sit at home all day and do nothing. Looking for work in down economy is hard work. If someone had worked at the same job for 15 years, they would have found that the game had changed since the last time they looked.
I am sure there are people that game the system. I am not certain that it is as rampant as you think it is. Or perhaps it is more rampant among the people you know.
“-Stop blaming ‘The Rich,’ ‘The Poor,’ ‘The Bankers,’ ‘The Builders,’ ‘Everyone but yourself.’ “
Then wish me luck today…..I have an interview at a NYC radio station for an intern job… If they offer i will take…what is the cost to me? just a round trip subway ride 2 days a week and I get to put it at the top of the resume, and “network” with people who can help me.
Yes the game has changed for everyone…now employers state they don’t want the unemployed to apply for jobs, is this even legal? But it is happening.
If someone had worked at the same job for 15 years, they would have found that the game had changed since the last time they looked.
Good luck, aNYCdj!
If you want to prepare you forgot some important items:
1. Learn to handle a firearm
2. Learn to hunt
3. Learn to fish
4. Stock up on items needed for 1 to 3
I always figured the best preparation was to have a marketable skill in a high tech economy, a low tech economy, and a subsistence economy. For example, specialized nursing in a high tech economy, first aid in a low tech economy, herbal medicine in a subsistence economy. Or computer programming in a high tech economy, gardening in a low tech economy, and fishing in a subsistence economy. The 2nd and 3rd skills can be hobbies now. Cookinig works in all 3.
I don’t have to know everything. I just have to be better than average at one thing in every circumstance.
People’s Commissar Strelnikov paging Doctor Zhivago, paging Doctor Zhivago. Hello, Ferfal? Frying pan to fryer?
Corporations depend on People being able to purchase their services or products… I didn’t see too much of how that will occur above, i.e. work until X-years after death is the retirement plan.
Comment by comrade mike, 1. Learn to handle a firearm.
Plan B: Offshore Retreats, by Phil J.
http://www.survivalblog.com/2011/05/plan_b_offshore_retreats_by_ph.html
“If you have considered getting out while you can here is what we have learned so far…”
Thanks for the link - interesting reading.
His American Redoubt, consisting of Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, eastern Washington, and eastern Oregon, is mostly very dry country with a short growing season. Farming there is supported by irrigation. The rest is mostly mountainous with an even shorter growing season. Before European settlement, it was populated by nomadic tribes who relied on buffalo and other wildlife for sustenance. There is a reason this area is sparsely populated.
And trading food was the norm as well. Those living along the Columbia river had more salmon than they knew what to do with but lacked other items. So they dried the fish, packed it into baskets, and traded it for other items such as berries gathered by other tribes from the more mountainous regions.
I can imagine that for those back at home camp, it was a very exciting time when the traders came back with something besides _____ (insert local plentiful food).
He also seems to ignore the rather significant wildfire hazard. It is probably as significant as the tornado hazard that worries him in Kansas.