The Housing Bubble

“My cynicism meter is pinned all the way over.”

As is mine.

Sales of botox must be through the roof, because I don’t get how they’re doing this with straight faces.

I really had a sense of foreboding when I heard the body was already buried at sea. NBC reported it was done according to Islamic custom but I just looked up Sadam Hussein’s execution on Wiki and his body was returned back to the place of his birth where he was buried next to family members. (Is Saudi custom different than Iraqi?)

The Telegraph in London is reporting it was to done this way so his buriel site did not become a shrine. But their FB link said he was killed last week so they’re obviously not big on getting details straight.

I think the book Confessions of an Economic Hitman has made me a cynic for life.

CNN says there are photos; samples were taken for DNA analysis. Wouldn’t that be a hoot if the military killed a decoy? I still have trouble with the “last week” story.

Well we’ll find out soon enough.

“Well we’ll find out soon enough.”

Not until Wikileaks comes out with their report.

Capricorn One.

“My cynicism meter is pinned all the way over.”

As is mine! On the other hand, Bin Laden of late has become sort of a non-entity in the Arab world with what is going on (i.e Syria, Egypt, Libya).

“I think the book Confessions of an Economic Hitman has made me a cynic for life.”

Knowing what I know about the Great Housing Fraud made me a cynic all on its own. I’ve been accused of being “negative” by those that know me well and it’s really a lame accusation. Those that accuse me are the same folks who get by with the same corrupt thinking that so many home debtors used to rationalize monetizing home “equity”.

Before you guys get too suspicious over the ‘Burial at Sea’ story, reflect for a moment on what would happen to whatever site might have been used for ‘Burial at Land.’

Carrie Ann, I think the “Islamic custom” part was burial within 24 hours, not that “at sea” part. Not sure about Saddam.

That’s a good point. I guess I’d feel better if I heard other people besides the US gov, the same people who support a strong dollar policy while conducting QE, were supporting the confirmation of his death.

Also seven hours (as I understand the timeline) falls pretty short of the 24 hour window.

Bin Laden

Bin Laden is dead. This would not be like a “fake” moon landing proof.

Which is harder to prove? The moon landing happened or someone is not dead?

The British papers obituary is pretty funny:

Following the suicide bomb attack on the USS Cole on October 12 2000, the FBI’s New York chief of counter-terrorism went out to Yemen hoping to interview suspects who had been arrested by the Yemeni security services. Gun-toting, brash and undiplomatic, he so enraged his hosts that the US ambassador in Yemen was driven to demand that he be recalled. The failure in Yemen — a major communications hub for al-Qaeda — may have blocked off lines of investigation that could have led directly to the terrorists preparing for September 11.

Gee, that British report isn’t going out of its way to be anti-American or anything. Whenever I hear someone start with the words “gun toting”, I tune out.

I think it more likely he was caught and the burial images were staged and he is on his way to a dark box for information extraction.

CBSNEWS
May 2, 2011 5:20 PM
Rush Limbaugh: “Thank God for President Obama”

“Thank God for President Obama,” conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh said on his program today in response to the death of Osama bin Laden.

The controversial conservative may have been speaking facetiously — later in the program, he laughed at media reports covering the praise he seemingly lavished on the president.

But for a solid eight minutes at the start of his popular talk show, Limbaugh gave what sounded like a serious commendation of the president’s decision to launch an attack against the al Qaeda leader, as Mediate reports.

“We need to open the program today by congratulating President Obama,” Limbaugh said. “President Obama has done something extremely effective, and when he does, this needs to be pointed out.”

“President Obama has continued the Bush policies of keeping a military presence in the Middle East,” he continued. “He did not scrub the mission to get bin Laden. In fact, it may be that President Obama single-handedly came up with the technique in order to pull this off. You see, the military wanted to go in there and bomb like they always do. They wanted to drop missiles and drop bombs and a number of totally destructive techniques here. But President Obama, perhaps the only qualified member in the room to deal with this, insisted on the Special Forces.”

Ah, the human shields argument. That’s so Bush like of you.
It probably worked the first few hundred times…….

Butters:

The military is now saying that one woman was killed during the fight because one of the Al Quada fighters was using her as a shield. They also say that two other women were injured. I’d love to hear their testimony. If this is true, then it will ruin Al Quaeda’s credibility (yes, I do not know how to spell Al Quaida).

CRICKETS…

CRICKETS…

we’re still killing civilians. Does it really matter whether our goal is to wipe out an entire nation or not?

God is on our side.

That is why we are different.

we’re still killing civilians. Does it really matter whether our goal is to wipe out an entire nation or not?

Is that a trick question?

Riddle: How do you kill a terrorist in Afghanistan?

Answer: Dress them up as a wedding party.

“Does it really matter whether our goal is to wipe out an entire nation or not?”

It matters to me. The people who flew airplanes into the World Trade Center towers were deliberately and indiscriminately targeting civilians. So far as I can tell, our military actions are aimed at military targets; problems arise when military targets hide out in civilian areas.

The people who flew airplanes into the World Trade Center towers were deliberately and indiscriminately targeting civilians.

So you think that it’s okay to kill civilians if they’re collateral damage, but not if they’re specifically targeted? Or that the former is “less worse” than the latter?

Forget the concept of “human shields”. How many civilians have we mistakenly killed? Remember the Chinese consulate? Or the wedding party referenced elsewhere in today’s bucket?

‘Or that the former is “less worse” than the latter?’

Yes.

Forget the concept of “human shields”.

Why? Terrorism tactics are based on it.

Look y’all. Starting unnecessary wars is the problem. There will always be collateral damage in any war. It’s something we should definitely try to avoid, but it’s gonna happen. Maybe if people felt like there was a good reason for the war itself, then they wouldn’t be as outraged by the collateral damage.

Bin Laden said he could never defeat the US military, but he could help bring down the US economy.

Looking at the last 10 years, I’d say he was pretty successful. The Fed’s response to the terrorist attacks unleashed the easy money policies that put the US in the position it now finds itself.

His goal was to overextend the US militarily to the point its economy failed, then run its empire out of the Muslim nations. In that, he has succeeded masterfully.

Exactly. We have absolutely made his point for him, and have only sown the seeds for even more like him, as we have interfered even more in the middle east, and killed many more civilians.

Ahansen,

I agree wholeheartedly with your statement.

All our adversaries had to do was wave the red flag and we came charging. Which will end in our empirical demise.

Which in the ling run is probably a good thing.

“Exactly.”

Here we agree. A trap was laid, and we fell for it…

No, the United States is not screwed, and OBL did not cause our financial troubles. You guys are more anti-American than the terrorists even. I think you should be a little more grateful, and also try to be a little more productive with your criticism.

His goal was to overextend the US militarily to the point its economy failed, then run its empire out of the Muslim nations.

———————————
The US economy has not ‘failed’ by any realistic sense of the word and OBL ran the US into 2 more wars in Muslim nations than we were engaged in back in 2000. Seems like an odd path to victory if you asked me. Like the way Rocky tires out his opponents by allowing them to punch him in the face before he attacks. Only problem is a risky strategy that really only works in the movies.

Reading comprehension is our friend, V. And our patriotism is not for you to ascertain or adjudge.

Once again you provide us apt demonstration of that which you purport to disparage.

“…a little more productive with your criticism….”

ahansen, what you just said has no meaning. “Reading coomprehension is our friend”. That implies that you didn’t say what I think you said. Please re-read your own post in an effort to understand how words written and read in the same language often have only one meaning.

Big V why don’t you re-read your arrogant post.

Sorry, everyone, but I am not one of the naysayers who attempt to discredit America while giving all the glory to some stupid terrorist. Our problems were cause by us, and only WE can solve them. It doesn’t help to be a defeatist.

Agree with you V. Really frustrating that the sheeple won’t even admit to causing their own problems let alone ever begin to consider solving them. With the current (or foreseeable) leadership and prevalent apathetic, laziness of the average American it just all seems so hopeless. Hard to not to think the terrorists must be laughing, especially at our pathetically transparent media and the pre-school level show they put on for the World.

Big V, you’re not the sharpest crayon in the pencil case are you.

Sorry, everyone, but I am not one of the naysayers who attempt to discredit America while giving all the glory to some stupid terrorist.

+1 and I don’t think the terrorists are laughing at us much now. They’ve been on the run for a while now. Yes, a few of us will die here and there because of them but not that many so far.

And as far as USA’s debt “caused” by the terrorists, some of that is true but please wake me up when terrorists can print the world reserve currency.

lucy:

You should not put your crayons in your pencil case. It’s more organized just to keep your pencils in there. And yes, I am the sharpest one.

People who require dialysis can’t pick up guns? Who knew? I wish people would tell us stuff like this.

He did not get treatment according to some sources:

Pakistan’s president says he thinks Osama bin Laden is most likely dead because the suspected terrorist has been unable to get treatment for his kidney disease.

“I think now, frankly, he is dead for the reason he is a … kidney patient,” Gen. Pervez Musharraf said on Friday in an interview with CNN.

You believe a self-serving comment like that by Pervez Musharraf? Seriously? Pakistan is not a reliable US ally. I would not believe Musharraf any further than I could throw him.

Well, he was found two miles from the Paki intelligence headquarters shows they were in a position to have unique information about the guy.

It also shows they have been playing both sides for years.

+1

+ 1 more

Never celebrate death. Life deserves more respect.

Usually true. Not always. And this is one of the times I’m celebrating a death.

The world is a complex place.

“TBTF will ruin more lives than any terrorist ever could dream of.”

Sad, but true.

oxide,

Doesn’t stevia contain sugar?

Gotta love the sugar lobby:

Stevia remained banned until after the 1994 Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act forced the FDA in 1995 to revise its stance to permit stevia to be used as a dietary supplement, although not as a food additive — a position that stevia proponents regard as contradictory because it simultaneously labels stevia as safe and unsafe, depending on how it is sold.

It required Congressional approval a few years ago.

Now a days of course, the president can invade any where.

Now a days of course, the president can invade any where.

my point was that Congress authorized military action in Iraq (and Afghanistan). I don’t know whether they can revoke that authorization, but it’s not up to them to move troops around. That’s up to the President….

So it’s Obama’s call whether to bring them home. You know, like the Dem’s promised in their 2006 congressional campaign. And like Obama did in 2008…

Putting Iraq/Afghanistan war on budget would bring the trips home a lot quicker.

Congress authorizes the funds.

Eisenhower warned of the military industrial complex gaining too much power in his exit speech from the Presidency.

We are now living in the results of his warning not being heeded. Lockheed is practically a fourth branch of the government.

No, more like Blankfein said “We wanna short silver, now would be a good time to get rid of OBL”.

Lol.

You do not find it interesting that last week was strong on the stock market with no news to justify it, but now on the news the market is hardly moving at all? Don’t think that OBL was killed to make silver fall but that the PTB that had the inside information of his death decided to use it to set silver up for a massive fall to have a chance to get out of their short positions. As I said earlier they don’t seem to be pulling it off since silver is far off its lows but they may have covered a fair amount when it was down earlier.

PTB that had the inside information of his death decided to use it to set silver up for a massive fall

But Dan, there is no “massive fall”. Silver is not even down 10% from its high and this after a “massive” one year and five year run. 10% up or down for silver is kind of a yawn no?

I think we’ve both seen the silver market correct 35% over a span of a week before. I have.

They don’t call silver “the restless metal” for nothing.

I said they wanted to, not that they did. In fact, the post said that they were failing. They did have it down by 10% at one point. People can get stopped out in that type of move and that is what I warned people about Friday. If the PTB could control everything, there would have been no crash that forced them to seek bailout funds. However, that does not keep them from being insiders in the crony capitalism game and making fat profits from the inside information. Yes, we both have seen a 35% correction in a week and I say that was caused by manipulation by the PTB, who do not want the Fiat currency gravy train to end. However, with the developing world buying of the physical metals that is getting harder and you may pick up the paper someday and find that J.P. Morgan has imploded due to a massive short position in silver, if the reports that it has such a position are correct.

Oh, I definitely believe he’s dead. And has been for going on 10 years. He’s been a useful boogeyman, though. I guess they figured they’d gotten enough mileage and now he’s worth more dead than alive.

Anyway, it’s been a great Capricorn One.

Oxy,

Give the new EddieTard a warm welcome.

Bah, you’re just pissed about my lovebugs post.

A-dan knew too much about nuclear power to be Eddie.
Now if you mean a metaphorical Eddie, well not quite that either..

Why do some persist with the childish name-calling? It’s like a time warp back to elementary school playground.

Then it should feel right a home for you. The only difference is your playground team cries foul on every play.

“And has been for going on 10 years.”

Hard to check that, given news of ‘burial at sea.’ But photos before burial would help corroborate; has any MSM outlet produced photos of the body?

I want to see photos of the body with a dated newspaper visible in the image. I also want to hear testimony from the women who survived the fight.

“I want to see photos of the body with a dated newspaper visible in the image.”

Because there’s no way anyone in the CIA or NSA knows how to use photoshop.

This guy down the street Twitted the raid:

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/05/02/man-live-tweets-u-s-raid-on-osama-bin-laden-without-knowing-it/

lucy

There are people in this world who know how to recognize a PhotoShopped image.

I have studied Islam as well. My comment referred primarily to the “All in Islam always believe” portion of your comment. You cannot make that kind of extreme statement about over 1.5 billion people with reference to any belief without a lot more evidnence than one person’s reading of scripture. Scripture is subject to interpretation.

If you want to make some statement about the beliefs of people who follow a particular school of interpretation, go ahead and make your argument and provide links to references. Then go ahead and prove that the school of belief you cite is the one being followed by the people who are planning attacks on the west.

I think you will find, however, that extremists in any religion (or other type of belief for that matter) can interpret almost any series of events as confirming what they want to do. So people who interpreted Bin Laden’s survivial for the last decade as a sign that God was on their side, will see his death as a sign that they have not been agressive enough in their actions to please God, or that Bin Laden was not humbling himself enough or whatever. Seriously, Islam managed to get through a number of defeats during the Crusades, getting kicked out of Spain in 1492, etc. I’m sure they have developed a theology that can survive the assasination of one person without having to accept that God is against them permanently.

It is a mainstream belief, yes the word “all” should probably never be used about anything but I think that vast majority have that view and only a very tiny minority might dispute that point. Further, the minority would be reluctant to say anything because they would lose their heads. My point is that it is not an “extremist” view. Many would like us to believe that Osama is to Islam like the Branch Davidians were to Christianity but the truth is that the percentage of Muslims that hold his views are much more like Protestants to all Christians. And the people that hold an opposite view of predetermination would be like the number of Mormons among the Christians with many Muslims even questioning whether they are even Muslims.

Finally, I did not say they would believe that God is against them only that they might question whether Osama was doing God’s work. Please don’t put words in my mouth.

Polly,

First, I applaud your reminder that heuristics applied to the behavior groups of people can be considered -”isms” racism, sexism, dhalism, etc.. However, as I’ve seen these isms I have also come to the conclusion that as an argument they can’t be dismissed so easily.

By this I mean that asking for scientific level citation before lending any merit or credence to an argument puts *you* (or whomever is asking for full citation) in a weaker position of authority on the subject. Just as we have a “strawman” logical fallacy, so to I think we have a “mountainclimber” logical fallacy. That is, your argument attempts to invalidate another person’s argument by requiring that they climb a mountain of your choosing, claiming that otherwise their argument is invalid.

If someone were putting forth a research level paper we would expect citation and researched data. However we often need to be more efficient in our daily lives and use our personal experience to discuss and relate to each other, and protect ourselves and our families. Obviously heuristics become a useful tool in these situations. For instance, it’s easier to just avoid all pirates assuming they are bad people and looking to kill you and rape your wife than it is to get to know them on an individual scale to see if they are really bad first. While many pirates may be good people and just be hungry and want some food, the chance that the others will kill you puts a higher burden on the good pirates to show themselves as good people.

Many people who are racist, sexist, dhalist, etc.. implictily know this, but don’t explicitly know it. How many “gay-haters” do you know who actually have a friend who is gay? How many of the “racist” illegal immigrant haters actually have hispanic friends?

The point is, it is individual interactions that our brain tries to classify into heuristics that create grouping perceptions. One or two points of data in our brain won’t create a heuristic unless it is a really important one that might save our life. You can’t require someone to put a scientific reference on a calculation that a computer 1 million times more powerful than our best supercomputer has spit out in their head in order to make it valid. But if they are wrong (and they often are), you can prove to them why they are by citing your own sources. Just don’t throw up the mountainclimber logical fallacy as proof they are wrong.

Links to statistics from studies done by reliable social scientists, please. Your words are mere noise without them. Quantitative claims require quantitative proof.

Just as we have a “strawman” logical fallacy, so to I think we have a “mountainclimber” logical fallacy. That is, your argument attempts to invalidate another person’s argument by requiring that they climb a mountain of your choosing, claiming that otherwise their argument is invalid.

I like this comment..it’s an interesting thought. Certainly we want people to back up their statements..but we also must be realistic, and be able to do “proof by induction”, so to speak, as it’s not reasonable to expect any one person to go off and do such a study.

Then again, that’s why it’s a good idea to preface one’s comments with “my experience leads me to believe…”, or “I have seen”…

Mountain climber proof is required when the claims made are mountains. Dan’s original statement said, “…all in Islam always believe that anything that happens is “God’s will.” That is a mountain. Even one contrary example will disprove it. I pointed that out.

If someone wants to start a discussion about various schools of Islamic theology and their difffering reactions to the death of Osama Bin Laden, that would be great. But it can’t start from a declaration that all Muslims (over 1.5 billion of them on the planet) believe much of anything that goes beyond the central tennant of the faith, and even that is probably up for grabs. There are plenty of people who identify culturally as Jews who are atheists. I’m not positive what the Muslim take on this particular issue is, but they certainly have a doctrine of being born a Muslim, so that 1.5 billion may include atheists and agnostics as well as people who doubt that anyone has ever been a prophet.

they certainly have a doctrine of being born a Muslim, so that 1.5 billion may include atheists and agnostics

I think it’s a safe assumption that the comment was in reference to practicing Muslims, not “cultural Muslims”. But it’s worth clarifying.

Right. I studied Islam too. What I determined from my studies was that Islam is my least-favorite religion. I am not going to stand up for Islam in general, but we can’t make any statements about “all Muslims”.

Me and my big lips ain’t convertin to Islam anytime soon. Im keeping my slave name. That way when the cops detain me and ask: “who are you and what are you doing here?”

I can tell them the truth.

I think that a study by the Pew Research Center puts present day Islam in the proper light. It studied the views of Egyptians hardly the most fundamental of Muslims. In it were wonderful insights such as 84% of Egyptians believe that there should be the death penalty for converts from Islam (remember the country is 10% Coptic Christian). Google it. As the comment above stated, I do not have time to do a publishable study on the matter but read the study and decide for yourself.

And Polly why don’t you just show us one major or even minor school of Islam does not teach rigid predetermination?

BTW, a belief in destiny is one of the six articles of belief in Islam. This link says that “all” Muslims must believe in it. It is not one of the five pillars of the faith but it is not optional for a practicing Muslim. Are there a few people out of the 1.5 billion that don’t believe that everything that happens is willed by God but I think my comment was close enough for government work or this blog.

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/religion-islam-muslim-islamic-quran.htm

left out sure between “God” and “but”

I don’t have to provide an example of a whole movement to refute you - you made a blanket statement about every Muslim in the world.

But, I suggest you read Lelia Ahmed’s lovely autobiography “A Border Passage” about her moderate upbringing in Egypt before the rise of Arab Nationalism along with her life after leaving Egypt.

Here is a blurb from the Harvard Divinity School website:

Leila Ahmed came to the Divinity School in 1999 as the first professor of women’s studies in religion and was appointed to the Victor S. Thomas chair in 2003. Prior to her appointment at HDS, she was professor of women’s studies and Near Eastern studies at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst. While at the University of Massachusetts, she was director of the women’s studies program from 1992 to 1995 and director of the Near Eastern studies program from 1991 to 1992. Her latest book, A Border Passage, has been widely acclaimed. Her other publications include the books Women and Gender in Islam: The Historical Roots of a Modern Debate and Edward William Lane: A Study of His Life and Work and of British Ideas of the Middle East in the Nineteenth Century, as well as many articles, among them “Arab Culture and Writing Women’s Bodies” and “Between Two Worlds: The Formation of a Turn of the Century Egyptian Feminist.” Her current research and writing centers on Islam in America and issues of women and gender.

Washington Post had a chat with a spokesperson for a Muslim community today. It is here:

http://live.washingtonpost.com/osama-bin-laden-death-muslim-community-reaction.html

Sufi Muslims are also generally moderate.

And I would also point you also to your neighbors in the US. There are tons of moderate Muslims living right here. A lovely family from Iran used to live next door to my grandparents. They left Iran because of the Islamic revolution. The woman who cuts my hair is another. One of my co-workers at the first law firm I worked at was a Muslim from Pakistan. Not many of us dared to wear pants suits in those days (it was a very conservative firm), but she did. The Islamic Center of New England is located in my home town (which is over 60% Jewish) and they get along just fine in that community. The family I saw at the wildlife sanctuary yesterday, watching a groups of singers and dancers performing in honor of May Day and the coming of summer, were observant Muslims by their clothing. If they were extremists of any kind, they would not have been out there watching a performance that is purely pagan in origin including the crowning of a May Queen and dancing around a May Pole. The little girl in her pink head scarf was having a blast singing along and doing all the hand movements to Rattlin’ Bog.

Do you seriously not know any Muslims at all? Never even seen any participating in events in your community?

Hmm. Every time there’s an earthquake here in California or a hurricane in New Orleans, some Southern politician goes on tv blaming the victims for their misfortune and spouting how this is God’s will, God’s punishment. So, I guess most southerners believe as the Islamicists are said to believe.

‘Course, after the tornadoes killed hundreds in the south . . . Crickets.

What do we make of that?

IAT

As an undergraduate I was allowed to take masters and PHD level classes in Islam and interacted with many. However, it was an era that was still shaped by the 1905 constitutional movement and the rise of secular Islamic states including in Egypt. What Islam have reverted back to in the last thirty years is a much purer form of Islam. More recently, I also have helped Kurds that escaped from Saddam and they were secular. But Bill Maher’s comments are very true about the present shape of Islam and the Koran. Do not think for a minute once the numbers get much higher that the moderate form of Islam is going to stay the norm. A few examples of secular Muslims does not change that fact. This has not been the experience in Europe and it is very unlikely to stay the norm here. Sufi Muslims are persecuted in true Islamic countries such as Iran. Show me one country where Muslims control that are secular to a point where a Muslim can convert to Christianity and not face a legal sanction and perhaps even death. Even Turkey the most secular state in the Islamic world strictly limits Christians’ practice of their religion and their ability to seek converts.

Link: http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=670

The real story about Turkey despite trying to enter the EU and pretending it respects Christian rights.

Even Turkey the most secular state in the Islamic world strictly limits Christians’ practice of their religion and their ability to seek converts.

What’s up with that? What are they afraid of?

Not all of the Stickley line is made in China or Vietnam

Who cares? Why must you always spout some overoptimistic drivel to counter every observation made by people who can see that THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG with the economy? I don’t care if you knew some line workers for Stickley who haven’t had their hours cut, and I also don’t believe you. The fact they are making stuff out of the country, and then selling it to Americans, is a problemo. Big one.

Stickley isn’t my flavor. I own Century, Bernhardt, Henredon, and some other brands. I bought it before the furniture importing craze. If I had to do it over, I would have bought cheaper stuff. Many of the knock-offs are well done and save you a fortune.

Big V, no need for the outburst. However, I do agree that there is something wrong with the economy when time-tested traditions are thrown to the wind for a few quarters’ profit.

The same thing happened to Waterford Crystal. The crystal was made in Ireland for 200 hundred years until some profit-hungry merger with Wedgewood began to phase those jobs to Poland, Czech Rebpulic, Romania. Consumers were not fooled, and both companies suffered. The factory in Waterford, Ireland finally closed entirely down a couple years ago. My friend is buying Irish Waterford on Ebay before it disappears.

I fully believe that Carrie’s friends are still making Stickley in the US; however, I think their days are numbered. Once that death spiral to the bottom starts, it doesn’t stop.

Pretty soon, the only store that sells products made with any love or care will be Craigslist.

Just a quick aside. New in the Waterford saga is that they various private equity firms (or whoever owns them now) opened a new “factory and visitors center” in 2010 in order to attract tourism. New jobs: 40 jobs for production of high-end crystal, 11 for polishing and packing, and 30 staff in the gift shop.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/waterford-crystal-to-create-80-jobs-at-flagship-factory-in-city-2031365.html

What a crock. There were at least 1500 people making crystal as of 2005. Now they’re down to 40, and probably the rest are still in Poland. Looks to me like they’re throwing the Irish tradition a table scrap.

(the eastern European Waterford may be just as good as Irish, but consumers want that provenance.)

I don’t believe anything CarrieAnn says. I think she’s a troll. She keeps insisting that everything in her world is going great. House prices are high and rising, everyone’s fully employed with high pay, raises, and bonuses. The young people all have bright futures, blah blah blah. Has she ever divulged the name of her city? I’d like to know so I can refute her claims with actual stastics.

V…

I don’t believe she’s a troll nor is she a realt-Liar. We’ve emailed each other about NY for quite some time. There are isolated areas… islands of complete housing stupidity and fraud and she lives in one of those areas. They’re small, isolated and shrinking. Just a note and I apologize to Carrie in advance for disclosing but she is battling cancer so please think about that.

CarrieAnn is in Central New York, Syracuse area, with references to Cazenovia and Skaneatlas, both in the Finger Lakes region. So go look it up. The city area is essentially Midwestern that it lost its industry, but the Finger Lakes are a tourism haven and doing well, apparently. But taxes are high to support New York City.

“Just a note and I apologize to Carrie in advance for disclosing but she is battling cancer so please think about that.”
RAL
Thank you for your caring heart. I do a lot of stuff for Breast Cancer, so I can appreciate your call for compassion. Carrie, you’re part of our HBB family, and we’re all cheering for your complete remission.

I toured the Waterford factory about 15 years ago. They had some talented people working there.

IIRC, you had to apprentice for several years and prove your skill before being allowed to make a single piece.

lot of stuff for Breast Cancer ??

Talking about Breast Cancer I have not seen REhobbyist post in sometime…She should have been finished with her Chemo sometime ago…Maybe Ben can make contact unless someone else has her email address…

—Who cares? Why must you always spout some overoptimistic drivel to counter every observation made by people who can see that THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG with the economy? I don’t care if you knew some line workers for Stickley who haven’t had their hours cut, and I also don’t believe you. The fact they are making stuff out of the country, and then selling it to Americans, is a problemo. Big one.–

You boys do realize that Carrie Ann lives in Syracuse, Stickley’s home turf. Her observations about the company make some sense. Sheeash

scdave
I am in the “Army of Women” -Dr. Susan Love MD’s mission to cure the epidemic in our lifetime. I also am involved in product policing (getting hormones and stuff out of products) and helping Breast Cancer patients. Love is a former BC Surgeon and Professor of Surgery at UCLA.

I was just thinking of REHobbyist the other day, myself. Thank you for bringing her up, scdave. I hope she is doing well, but just too busy to drop by.

All you HBB ladies, please check out and join “The Army Of Women”. If nothing else, get in the database.

Ha. These Stickley guys are a hoot which is why I jumped in with so much gusto. So yeah I’m pretty happy friends of mine are employed.

I would NOT say the lakes region is strong because of tourism. I don’t think that industry is that strong. I’ve reported on 2 lake communities in the area where a larger proportion of the residents than is the norm have really deep pockets. And I’m not talking about people w/a 1 or 2 mill in their 401k’s. Do you really think all the wealthy live in NYC and LA? The people who made money from the bubbles existence? Where do you think they live?

Why is it Big V you want to reject the reality of bifurcation? Sorry you’re on the wrong side but if it makes you feel any better so am I and my family.

I’ve presented gov links here myself to the low amount of foreclosures in the area. Our housing is not the same multiple of median income that it was in the really bad areas. Many families have two incomes. Two families of lawyers. Surgeons and their nurse wives. A guy writing code for our defense companies while his wife has her own small business. A guy working for a major energy company.

These people bought 10-15 years ago, before the blip of small bubble we had here. They’re fine financially. One local community recently raised over a mil to build a sports facility because the community kept voting it down. It took a matter of months. On marketdatadotcom I found one community has a very high percentage of no mortgage households.

So call me a troll if you want. I’m still a renter. I’m still holding pat and I will continue to report what I see (and not sugarcoat it for your needs) as there has got to be someone in the area that finds it useful to know they should still hold out. The spiral hasn’t even begun.

RAL, you’re in big trouble. I really didn’t feel like sharing that but I’ll probably forgive you as you’re my only outlet for a good online NY rant. ; )

San Francisco is one of those isolated areas. Does not feel like there is a recession here. Everyone I know who lost their job has found a new one. Rents and home prices are still high. Restaurants are packed.

There are isolated areas… islands of complete housing stupidity and fraud and she lives in one of those areas. They’re small, isolated and shrinking.

Yeah I don’t like it either but I view them in terms of a small stock….. no matter what, the small stock gets crushed by the index….. sooner or later.

CarrieAnn:
Tell me what city you live in. “Bifurcation” - stuff a sock in it. I don’t see it, and rich people are not eager to lose money.

sfrenter:
Prices are still falling in SF.

Anonymity hon. Anonymity. Too much has already been said and the problem was I reported about people I knew intimately. People that might not be too happy to know was doing so. Although there’s a small part of me that would enjoy spelling it all out, making you happy is way down my list in comparison to keeping people in my life happy.

There are other hbb posters who say similar things about their areas. There has got to be something else I’ve said that has you so out for bear.

Really V, did you get the part that I am not one of them? Do you understand how difficult it is to watch this all go on around me when what I believe is more aligned to you?

Bifurcation. You don’t see it so it doesn’t exist huh? Talk about closed minded. No I’ll stuff a sock in it when Ben Jones suggests it. Otherwise that’s really just not my style and you are very welcome to add me to your Joshua Tree extension as a block.

Why do you never acknowledge when I say the whole $300k and up is frozen and that my friend w/the high niche home isn’t even getting lookie loo traffic?

Doesn’t support your bitch session? I’ve been repeating that for at least a year. Maybe it’s time you stuff a sock in it.

Last week I went to Walmart on a Saturday which should have been grand central station crazy but instead it was like crickets empty. Felt waves of visceral fear about it.

I went to the sports equipment store next, the one I always tell my kids is a rip off but I needed good inventory to chose from. Employee told me the high end cleats are gone the first two weeks. Ya know $100 -$145. Luckily we were shopping for lowest price option. There were people in the aisle and waits at the register.

CarrieAnn:

What part of “I am middle class” do you not understand? I am not on the wrong side of the bifurcation. That’s because there is still a BIG OLE middle class in the United States.

Anonimity my foot. You are totally making this stuff up. See, so many other commentators on this blog thought they knew where you live, but they don’t.

You are just a troll, plain and simple.

You don’t talk about how the high end is frozen, and then in the next sentence tell us that we’re just on the wrong side of the bifurcation and the people with deep pockets are still doing just fine.

No, there isn’t a big OLE middle class in the US. There’s a big OLE live like middle class but God help them if something goes wrong. You, V, may be in the small, leftover, better hope *two* things don’t go wrong middle class, but that is small and shrinking daily.

Way back in 2006 the Washington Post reported:

“Meet the typical American family.

It has about $3,800 in the bank. No one has a retirement account, and the neighbors who do only have about $35,000 in theirs. Mutual funds? Stocks? Bonds? Nope. The house is worth $160,000, but the family owes $95,000 on it to the bank. The breadwinners make more than $43,000 a year but can’t manage to pay off a $2,200 credit card balance.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/04/AR2006030400238.html

It is likely MUCH worse now than then.

On Czech Republic crystal, they have their own crystal industry and sell some high quality stuff. If some are unable to see that, who cares? I can’t vouch for the quality of Waterford made in Prague, but the traditional Czech crystal makers make fine crystal.

IAT

IAT:

You are correct that the middle class is shrinking (thanks to offshoring), but I get mad at CarrieAnn because she wants us all to believe that the rich are all-powerful and special, and that their house prices are not going down.

How did you ever get that out of what I’ve posted here?

First I started to talk about Stickly guys. They’re not rich. I was happy they’re still employed. After you attacked my post, someone brought up the lake communities so I mentioned the wealthy people who by the way have been here for generations and guess what their houses aren’t the ones on the market. At least the ones I know have been here for generations and aren’t going anywhere. Until death anyway. Now the ones faking it and I can’t always know who that is, they’re still faking it. I’m telling you spending is still going on. Someone asks me why. I guess, (you didnt think I took a poll did ya?) and you’re gonna rake me over the coals because you don’t like my answer. That’s your probemo. Not mine.

I’ve written above I agreed w/you regarding the economy in general several different ways but you refuse to acknowledge it because you’re in attack mode again which means you’re going to hang on like a guard dog .

I really don’t feel I have to untangle the attack dog knots you’ve made of my comments. And this will be the last time I do. Never thought I’d need the Joshua Tree extension but it’s going in. I don’t do politics (mostly) I stopped w/the “we’ve gotta march” that Ben asked me not to do 3 years back. I mostly just roll my eyes and don’t even comment to people I totally disagree with and hope most I do comment to know it’s cuz I respect them and feel they’ll treat me well. I’m not here to play roller derby in the mud.

Oh well. As RAL referred to earlier, it’s a time in my life I am facing some battles and so I need to stay positive. Thanks RAL for your protective instincts. Don’t worry she never rocked me once. Hubby and I even got laughing about it.

Never thought I’d need the Joshua Tree extension but it’s going in

I love how you phrased that

CarrieAnn:

I don’t have time to read your entire diatribe, but you already said something trollish. The number of generations that a person’s family has lived “here” has nothing to do with whether or not their house is on the market.

PS
In the past, the trolls who have attempted to use the Joshua Tree extension have died.

Jeff
Now I’ll have “Mary Had A Little Lamb” in my head this morning. It was cemented in my brain from my 2nd piano lesson. LOL

That’s funny, Awaiting. No matter what instrument I pick up, I can be playing MHALL within seconds, perfected within minutes.

NY at the moment. The Lying Realtor sells in NY and VT.

Yeah, real thought provoking stuff.

Don’t get uptight and uppity with me. Always looking to start $hit aren’t you.