May 2, 2011

The Pot Of Gold That Was The Real Estate Market

The News Journal reports from Florida. “Pending home sales are climbing in West Volusia, with homes in the lower price ranges attracting the most interest. In March, 456 pending sales of new and existing homes and condominiums were counted on the county’s west side, double the number tallied the same month in 2010, according to the West Volusia Board of Realtors. The median price for those pending sales in March was $75,000, a 16 percent decline compared to the median price the same month last year.”

“The median price means an equal number were priced higher and lower than that amount. ‘These prices are pre-2000 prices and even below that,’ said Mike Williams, a Realtor with ReMax Associates in Deltona. ‘Also a lot of sellers who missed the big boom from 2004 to the end of 2006 were reluctant to lower their prices. Many have come around.’”

The Fort Myers News Press. “For two years, Victor Vangelakos was the only resident of a 32-story riverfront tower in Fort Myers. Now, he has dozens of new neighbors at the Oasis, thanks to new ownership and a new push to sell homes at the high-rise condominium development. The sales push, started with an auction Nov. 20, by new owner Oasis Associates LLC of 40 units to get sales going. Those units were sold at absolute auction, meaning the high bid took the unit with no minimum price by the seller.”

“Sales at the towers fell sharply, however, after the housing market imploded starting in early 2006. Units at Oasis, for example, now go for less than half their pre-construction prices.”

The Herald Tribune. “Casey Key is one of Florida’s most beautiful barrier islands. Home to quaint beach cottages, elegant mansions, scenic beaches and attractive landscaping, it offers a quiet, luxurious lifestyle. Values have dropped considerably since the peak of the housing boom. One of the properties Annette Ayers shows on the north end is a 16,500-square-foot mansion with competition tennis courts, swimming pool and a scenic old dock. Originally priced at $20 million, it now lists for $9 million.”

The News Press. “The real estate market may be rebounding, but uncertainty still lives in the minds of some buyers. ‘Homeownership was the American dream. Nowadays when people are thinking of buying a house, they all know someone who will make a comment along the lines of, ‘Buying a house is the worst thing I ever did in my life,’ said Scott DiGregorio, sales manager at Primary Residential Mortgage in Fort Myers. ‘Never before has that happened.’”

“‘I firmly believe some people shouldn’t buy a house right now,’ DiGregorio said. ‘We have to be OK with that and we have to help people make that decision.’”

The Tampa Tribune. “For the second time in recent months, Yvette Swain moved into a vacant Hillsborough County home without the property owner’s permission, authorities said. Deputies arrested Swain late Tuesday on warrants for grand theft of $100,000 or more and burglary of an unoccupied dwelling. In the first instance, Swain moved into a Dover house after a company called Chateau Lan took possession of it, citing Florida’s adverse possession law. That law allows a person to take possession of abandoned property if he lives on it and pays taxes on it for seven years.”

“Homeowner Danuta Brown moved back into that four-bedroom, three-bath house property after a costly, four-month ordeal.”

“A real estate agent had ‘For Sale’ sign in front of the house at 13409 Sydney Road. Neighbors told the agent in April that someone had moved in. The agent went to the property, saw the sign was missing and that the home’s locks had been changed. On April 10, he contacted deputies. He told authorities the home wasn’t being foreclosed upon and was in the process of a short sale.”

“No one was home when deputies responded April 10, but 10 days later deputies spoke to Swain. She said she had lived in the home for three weeks and had been in the process of legally claiming the property under adverse possession, said Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office spokeswoman Debbie Carter. After deputies spoke with the state attorney’s office, a warrant was issued for Swain’s arrest. She was charged because the home wasn’t in foreclosure, it had a rightful property owner and was in the process of being sold, Carter said.”

The Palm Beach Post. “Carl Alexander and Carol Asbury bet big on Versailles real estate deals. This week, they lost big, indicted for their part in alleged mortgage fraud in the upscale Wellington community. They join 24 others who have been indicted or charged in Versailles schemes worth millions, first outlined in a Palm Beach Post series in 2009.”

“Asbury founded the Save My Home Law Group in late 2009, state records show. She also sponsors the popular blog 4closurefraud.com. That blog’s daily postings of foreclosure documents and regular nationwide updates on court actions are partly credited for exposing the robo-signing scandal that pushed banks to freeze home repossessions in the fall.”

“‘I find it very disturbing that the government must use all their resources to attack the people that are exposing the fraud and corruption,’ said Michael Redman, who runs the foreclosure blog. ‘Where are the indictments on all the known felonies committed by the banks, foreclosure mills and doc shops?’”

“Fraudulent closing documents prepared by Parkland real estate broker David Lam and Asbury concealed the fact that lenders were loaning more money than the actual price of the home, prosecutors said. The difference between the loan and the home price, they said, ultimately was pocketed by Alexander, Asbury and Lam - an estimated $1.8 million on the sale of four homes.”

The Orlando Sentinel. “A small group of private investors has overpaid taxes on more than 100 Orange County real-estate purchases since January 2010, artificially inflating recorded sales prices to show the properties sold for $2.77 million more than the investors paid. New buyers of some of these properties contacted by the Sentinel hadn’t looked into the previous purchase prices. But a Brooklyn buyer who purchased a MetroWest unit with her husband for $65,000 in December was surprised to learn it was bought by an investor at auction two months earlier for $25,000.”

“Asked whether they would have lowered their offer if they had known how much was paid by the investor group, she said: ‘I probably would have lowered it quite a bit.’”

“A Palm Beach Post analysis of deficiency judgments showed only 133 claims were filed between April 2006 and November 2010 on foreclosed residential properties in Palm Beach County. But experts said more may be coming as banks work through the bulk of foreclosures or even sell the claims to debt collection companies. Mark Stopa, a Tampa-based foreclosure defense attorney and proponent of strategic default, said financial institutions are just trying to scare homeowners, discouraging strategic defaults by convincing borrowers they are easily identifiable targets.”

“‘Strategic default is a sound business decision for many people,’ Stopa said. ‘Bankers try to make it about morality, but they have to realize that there is an overwhelming incentive at this point for people to strategically default.’”

“That’s because home values have sunk so much from their boom-time prices. In Palm Beach County, the median price for an existing home in March was $186,500, down 52 percent from the March 2006 median price of $393,700, according to Florida Realtors reports.”

“West Palm Beach resident Anthony Armenti has seen his home value plummet from his 2006 purchase price of $274,100 to a total market value today of $77,000. Retired, Armenti can afford the payments, but he’s also scrimping a little on other things and using coupons. ‘I never had to live like that before,’ said Armenti, who has considered a strategic default. ‘I don’t really need a credit score anymore. It would mean $1,600 in my pocket every month.’”

“But Armenti said he won’t walk away. ‘I won’t do it because it’s not the right thing to do for the United States,’ he said.”

“Four years ago, the homes in Meadow Walk and Palmer Glen were valued at an average of $425,000, and for good reason. The typical home is large, with 2,500 square feet of living area. The neighborhoods are reclusive, shielded to the west by the 300-acre Celery Fields, one of the state’s top bird sanctuaries. Only two of the 164 homes were assessed at under $300,000 in 2007, and both were still above $290,000.”

“By last year, those values had fallen by nearly half and the appealing subdivisions — Palmer Glen is a gated community — had the sixth highest foreclosure rate among Sarasota County’s 227 neighborhoods, according to a Herald-Tribune’s analysis. Meadow Walk and Palmer Glen still sport an average value of $234,000, despite the housing decline.”

“Gary Walsh, president of the Meadow Walk Homeowners Association, gets the news that another foreclosure has hit his neighborhood when the knock at his door comes, usually at around 11 p.m. During the boom, Walsh’s home, on a larger-than-average lot and with a backyard surrounded by water, was appraised at $630,000. It could probably still sell for $260,000 or so, he says, but the sign next door and others like it around the neighborhood were setting the market rate.”

“The pace of foreclosure filings has greatly slowed amid a scandal that has has left many of the nation’s largest banks and their attorneys accused of misconduct or negligence. And while there are still the eight homes, or nearly one-eighth of the neighborhood, going through foreclosure, there is a renewed pressure on banks’ attorneys to move the process along, Walsh said. Still, the HOA president expects this hiatus will be short-lived. ‘I think we’re going to see another rash of foreclosures.’”

“Jack McCabe, a Deerfield Beach real estate analyst expects the hiatus in residential foreclosures to be temporary and that ‘a huge wave’ will come once lenders and their lawyers retool. That help could come from Tallahassee, where industry lobbyists are attempting to change laws that will ease the foreclosure process for them, he said.”

“A statistic McCabe finds particularly interesting is that the average Sarasota County home was built in 1985, and that homes going through foreclosure are, on average, only seven months younger. The common perception is that homes built at the top of the boom are most often those that went under. But if the average home going through foreclosure in Sarasota County is more than 20 years old, something else is the cause.”

“‘What you had,’ McCabe said, ‘was not only people taking out crappy mortgages to buy new homes, but to buy used homes.’”

“And second mortgages were taken out on these used homes too. ‘That second note caused them to go under,’ McCabe said. ‘The point is the greed — everyone experienced the greed and everybody wanted to get the pot of gold that was the real estate market.’”




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40 Comments »

Comment by 2banana
2011-05-02 05:32:26

“The median price means an equal number were priced higher and lower than that amount. ‘These prices are pre-2000 prices and even below that,’ said Mike Williams, a Realtor with ReMax Associates in Deltona. ‘Also a lot of sellers who missed the big boom from 2004 to the end of 2006 were reluctant to lower their prices. Many have come around.’”

What? You mean they are giving them away???

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-05-02 06:10:36

‘These prices are pre-2000 prices and even below that,’

A six year retracement from the peak in four years.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2011-05-02 06:52:11

“giving them away”

Was just about to post that very thought, but got up too late, it appears…

How long from now until Coastal Cali retraces to pre-2000 levels? I’m thinking 2014+…

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-05-02 05:35:56

How dare they give me $100k when I don`t even know who gave it to me.

““‘I find it very disturbing that the government must use all their resources to attack the people that are exposing the fraud and corruption,’ said Michael Redman, who runs the foreclosure blog.”

Type: MTG
Date/Time: 11/6/2007 13:07:48
CFN: 20070509388
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 22236/1692
Pages: 5
Consideration: $100,000.00
Party 1: REDMAN CANDICE M
REDMAN MICHAEL C
Party 2: BANK OF AMERICA NA
Legal: WILLOWS ADD 1 BE L46 BL

 
Comment by 2banana
2011-05-02 05:38:35

“And second mortgages were taken out on these used homes too. ‘That second note caused them to go under,’ McCabe said. ‘The point is the greed — everyone experienced the greed and everybody wanted to get the pot of gold that was the real estate market.’”

No.

Many understood that these loans HAVE TO BE PAID BACK.

And so never took them out.

Greed/fraud from the homeowners, greed/fraud from the realtors, greed/fraud from the appraisers, greed/fraud from the mortgage companies, greed/fraud from the wall street firms, etc…

How is that pot of gold working out…

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-05-02 05:40:04

“Asbury founded the Save My Home Law Group in late 2009, state records show. She also sponsors the popular blog 4closurefraud.com. That blog’s daily postings of foreclosure documents and regular nationwide updates on court actions are partly credited for exposing the robo-signing scandal that pushed banks to freeze home repossessions in the fall.”

Type: MTG
Date/Time: 12/30/2004 14:48:18
CFN: 20040736832
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 17957/743
Pages: 9
Consideration: $141,052.00
Party 1: ASBURY CAROL
ASBURY WAYNE A
Party 2: MORTGAGE ELECTRONIC REGISTRATION SYSTEMS INC
COUNTRYWIDE HOME LOANS INC
Legal: LK CHRLSTN 2 L53F L

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-05-02 05:49:28

I guess they needed walking around money between the other scams.

“The difference between the loan and the home price, they said, ultimately was pocketed by Alexander, Asbury and Lam -an estimated $1.8 million on the sale of four homes.”

Document Detail

Type: MTG
Date/Time: 11/15/2004 12:33:48
CFN: 20040646766
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 17762/1505
Pages: 11
Consideration: $183,549.00
Party 1: ALEXANDER CARLITA A
ALEXANDER MICHAEL J
Party 2: MORTGAGE ELECTRONIC REGISTRATION SYSTEMS INC
MOLTON ALLEN & WILLIAMS MORTGAGE CO LLC
Legal: LANTANA HM 6 L627 L

Type: MTG
Date/Time: 5/16/2006 13:58:22
CFN: 20060291914
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 20347/417
Pages: 19
Consideration: $211,829.70
Party 1: ALEXANDER CARLITA A
ALEXANDER MICHAEL J
Party 2: CITICORP TRUST BANK FSB
Legal: LANTANA HM 6 L627 L

Document Detail

Type: MTG
Date/Time: 11/14/2007 14:20:43
CFN: 20070520561
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 22254/1578
Pages: 14
Consideration: $35,000.00
Party 1: ALEXANDER MICHAEL
ALEXANDER CARLITA A
Party 2: WACHOVIA BANK NATIONAL ASSOCIATION
Legal: LANTANA HM 6 L627 L

Comment by Professor Bear
2011-05-02 06:57:14

Where are you guys finding these NODs online?

Comment by jeff saturday
2011-05-02 07:01:23

Welcome to the Clerk & Comptroller Online
Your Gateway to Palm Beach County’s Courts, Official Records, Finances & County Commission Records

http://www.mypalmbeachclerk.com/ - 20k -

Comment by Professor Bear
2011-05-02 07:30:31

I have not succeeded in finding anything comparable for San Diego County. My guess is they either have no motivation to make it easy for the public to search their records, or perhaps they are too broke to provide such a service.

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Comment by scdave
2011-05-02 07:49:45

You may be able to purchase that service Pbear…Appraisers have it…Thats where I would start asking who provides it…

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-05-02 07:52:32

You can use the PB County link to look up the financial dealings of Lynn E. Szymoniak, star of the 60 minutes that featured Sheila Bair. Here is a letter written by Ms. Szymoniak to Chairwoman Bair after the show.

April 16, 2011

Sheila C. Bair, Chairwoman, FDIC
550 17th Street, NW, Room 6028
Washington, D.C. 20429

Dear Chairwoman Bair:

I write to you regarding fraud by banks in foreclosures. I previously wrote to you in January, 2010, regarding massive foreclosure fraud.

I am the woman who was featured on the 60 Minutes segment on April 3, 2011 on foreclosure fraud. That segment brought the wrath of Deutsche Bank and American Home Mortgage Servicing down upon me, but I have no regrets. You were also interviewed by Scott Pelley in this segment.

One proposal you recommend for holding the banks accountable for frauds and abuses in foreclosures is to create a fund to make reparations to victims. I support such a fund. An inquiry into whether the victims have been compensated is a traditional part of white collar criminal law. Such compensation is not made, of course, in place of criminal sanctions, but as an important part of such sanctions.

The fraud is so pervasive that twenty or thirty billion dollars will not begin to compensate the victims, and the banks certainly know this, even as they are setting aside as little as one to two billion for such relief.

I am writing to suggest to you that real compensation will include the opportunity for victims to have another mortgage.

Many victims of foreclosure fraud have been left with ruined finances, no credit and deficiency judgments. A one-time cash payout will not repair this damage.

The banks need to be required to offer victims of foreclosure fraud fixed rate, low-rate (3% – 4%) traditional 30-year mortgages, with a 5% down payment.

Such relief should be offered in every case where the lenders have filed forged and fabricated documents in official county records and court cases.

This relief should also be offered wherever a mortgage payment was incorrectly “adjusted” by mortgage servicers, including the tens of thousands of cases where the servicers attempted to justify their actions as a permitted increase in the escrow fund for taxes or insurance.

Such relief should also be offered wherever banks foreclosed while telling homeowners they were considering their eligibility for HAMP.

Such relief should also be offered wherever banks “lost” the homeowners’ HAMP applications and supporting documents three or more times.

Many victims of foreclosure fraud sold their homes, often at a loss, to avoid foreclosure. These victims also need to be compensated. These homeowners were very regularly told that mortgage-backed trusts owned their mortgages and would foreclose, even as the bank trustees knew that the documents demonstrating such ownership, the properly endorsed notes and assigned mortgages, were never held by the trusts.

Not every victim would choose another mortgage because many individuals will never trust another bank. There will, however, be tens of thousands of victims who are willing to become homeowners again.

Communities with a 40% rate of abandoned, vacant homes would benefit from such relief. County and state budgets would also benefit.

Please consider mortgage availability as an integral part of any plan to compensate victims of foreclosure fraud.

Please call upon me if I can be of assistance.

Yours truly,

Lynn E. Szymoniak, Esq. (szymoniak@mac.com)

http://4closurefraud.org/2011/04/18/open-letter-to-sheila-c-bair-of-the-fdic-from-lynn-szymoniak-60-minutes-re-compensation-for-foreclosure-fraud/ - 223k -

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-05-02 08:15:37

Here is a couple, too many to post here though.

LYNN buys her house in Steeplchase.

Type: MTG
Date/Time: 7/18/2001 09:36:59
CFN: 20010305701
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 12737/1072
Pages: 5
Consideration: $220,000.00
Party 1: SZYMONIAK LYNN E
Party 2: FIRST UN NAT BK
Legal: HORSHOE AC W. RPL B5 L12 BL

LYNN takes out a little equity

Type: MTG
Date/Time: 2/15/2006 08:27:13
CFN: 20060092890
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 19933/1827
Pages: 14
Consideration: $780,000.00
Party 1: SZYMONIAK LYNN E
Party 2: OPTION ONE MORTGAGE CORPORATION
Legal: HORSHOE AC W. RPL B5 L12 BL

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-05-02 08:23:10

LYNN becomes a victim.

View SZYMONIAK LYNN E DEUTSCHE BANK NATIONAL TRUST COMPANY TRUSTEE 08/06/2008 LP 22796 1110 20080293601 HORSHOE AC W. RPL B5 L12

View SZYMONIAK SPOUSE DEUTSCHE BANK NATIONAL TRUST COMPANY TRUSTEE 08/06/2008 LP 22796 1110 20080293601 HORSHOE AC W. RPL B5 L12

View SZYMONIAK SPOUSE U S BANK NATIONAL ASSOCIATION TRUSTEE 04/02/2010 LP

 
Comment by oxide
2011-05-02 08:42:33

780K?!?? :shock: minus $220K leaves a cool half mil.

“The banks need to be required to offer victims of foreclosure fraud fixed rate, low-rate (3% – 4%) traditional 30-year mortgages, with a 5% down payment.”

Does LYNN name the price at which she will be offered such mortgages? She signed a paper for a house at $780K. Fine, let her produce $39K in cash, and let her pay $3500 per month, every month, for the next 30 years.

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-05-02 09:23:36

Think these people have lawyers?
Actual Disclaimer from http://4closurefraud.org

Disclaimer
The information on this blog is for informational purposes only and is not to be construed as legal advice.

Read at your own risk. May be too intense for some viewers. Do not read this blog if you have high blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes, thyroid disease, asthma, glaucoma, or difficulty in urination.

Discontinue reading this blog if any of the following occurs: itching, aching, vertigo, dizziness, ringing in your ears, vomiting, giddiness, aural or visual hallucinations, tingling in extremities, loss of balance or coordination, slurred speech, temporary blindness, drowsiness, insomnia, profuse sweating, shivering, or heart palpitations.

Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by salinasron
2011-05-02 05:51:50

Ben, great summary article! Best to date. Another six months and CA should have more layers of RE lies exposed too.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-05-02 06:03:34

“Jack McCabe, a Deerfield Beach real estate analyst expects the hiatus in residential foreclosures to be temporary and that ‘a huge wave’ will come once lenders and their lawyers retool. That help could come from Tallahassee, where industry lobbyists are attempting to change laws that will ease the foreclosure process for them, he said.””

Just gotta change some laws ex post facto to make all those illegal title transfers legitimate.

What’s that you say? Ex post facto laws are expressly forbidden by the Constitution?

O-oh, MERSy MERSy me…

Comment by Ben Jones
2011-05-02 06:17:11

‘make all those illegal title transfers legitimate’

You know, maybe over at the blog these indicted people are running, confusing the issues and then making conclusive leaps goes without challenge. But I’m not going along with it.

Real estate law is straight-forward when it comes to title. It has to be or the system would break down and nobody would buy land. Somebody owns these houses. It’s just a question of who. And this is what matters; it ain’t the people who borrowed money and didn’t pay it back.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-05-02 06:29:44

“Somebody owns these houses. It’s just a question of who. ”

I agree- that is the question. I suspect answering it will be quite difficult. I’m still awaiting the always-just-around-the-corner solution to the problem.

Don’t mistake my desire for the rule of law to be an attempt to ‘confuse the issues’. It is the key issue of this whole bubble. I have no sympathy for most FBs, but I don’t let the banksters use my animus for their own ends.

Comment by Ben Jones
2011-05-02 07:00:03

I challenge you to find anyone on the internet that’s been more critical of banks and wall street than me. I also don’t care for how lobbying works in the legislative system. But it is how things are done. Let’s change it, fine! But today, this is the system we’ve got.

Here’s what I think is overlooked in this issue. Behind all these mortgage backed securities, trusts and corporations are a bunch of people that actually put up the money. Do you know who they are? Pension funds, bond holders, maybe even you if you have a 401k or a certificate of deposit. Through the financial system we have, their money was loaned to people who used these houses as collateral. Some borrowers failed to pay that money back, and it’s my opinion that the creditors are entitled to collect the collateral.

Let’s not forget that these creditors are losing a lot of money in the process, whereas a lot of these borrowers were actually refinancing, which means they received this cash and put it in their pocket. Many more were borrowing money to speculate. Along the way, millions of people who couldn’t afford a house because of the housing bubble, and didn’t borrow too much or refinance, still can’t afford a house. Maybe they even lost a job in the recession this created.

Again; foreclosures are how prices get lowered after a boom. The owners, and that includes the creditors, won’t do it voluntarily. How much will they get back? 20 cents on the dollar? Half? I don’t know, but they’ve got the right to what is left.

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Comment by scdave
2011-05-02 07:55:24

Spot on Ben…

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-05-02 08:42:07

“How much will they get back? 20 cents on the dollar? Half? I don’t know, but they’ve got the right to what is left.”

You see, I think the buyers of MBSs have a right to get 100% back- from the banksters who packaged and sold them the faulty product. That’s why I don’t want, but suspect the banksters do want, to bum rush the illegal title transfers (MERS) issue through the legal system. Doing so would allow the banksters to avoid being punished for ignoring the rule of law- an issue far larger than some FBs getting a few extra months in their house for free.

MERS was a key to the whole RE bubble- it’s what allowed the wholesale packaging and peddling of MBSs- and it was illegal. We have a chance to destroy MERS and the bubbles it facilitates, and punish the most-guilty financial firms, but we’re being told we should ignore this opportunity in preference to getting the FBs out of their houses pronto.

But there’s already a large shadow inventory being held off the market, easily released at any time, if its holders were so inclined. So I fail to see what glossing over the illegalities of MERS will accomplish, other than letting the banksters off the hook, big time- again.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2011-05-02 09:50:42

“But there’s already a large shadow inventory being held off the market, easily released at any time, if its holders were so inclined.”

Wouldn’t that scenario knock Ben’s conjectured $0.20 on the dollar down to $0.05 or so on the dollar?

 
Comment by Itsabouttime
2011-05-02 14:55:07

The problem is alpha has identified the people s/he believes shouldn’t lose anything. But no one held a gun to the head of MBS purchasers and made them buy. Had they declined the chance to buy, there would have been no market for the product.

MBS owners, as any creditor, deserve whatever the asset is now worth. They do not deserve to be made whole, even if fraud was perpetrated. The reason is that they all looked the other way. At some point one has to use one’s own brain, not just go along with whatever someone (who has an interest in your doing as they say) says.

IAT

 
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2011-05-02 17:45:11

“MBS owners, as any creditor, deserve whatever the asset is now worth.”

Agreed.

“Somebody owns these houses. …it ain’t the people who borrowed money and didn’t pay it back.”

Agreed. Some of them were misled by the banks into defaulting on their mortgage by the hope of a modification. They should be given the opportunity to come current. If they can’t, it is likely they would have defaulted anyway. Let foreclosure and bankruptcy give them a new start.

“Don’t mistake my desire for the rule of law to be an attempt to ‘confuse the issues’.”

This is fundamental to me. Banks should not be given a free pass and allowed to perpetrate fraud on the courts. Those who submitted fraudulent paperwork should be disbarred and/or jailed.

FBs are feeling the pain of their mistakes (even those who are still in their ‘homes’). MBS holders are feeling the pain of their mistakes. Banks have yet to feel the pain of their mistakes. And it is important that they do, so they will not do it again.

 
 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-05-02 06:49:58

” And this is what matters; it ain’t the people who borrowed money and didn’t pay it back.”

I say this constantly in comments on the Palm Beach Post and I get comments like these…

So unless you know what people like us are really going through to really fight to stay in our homes, please keep your negitive comments to yourself!
To Jeff Saturday
11:32 AM, 4/26/2011

Hey Jeff

Why don’t you tell the good folks of PB County what you do for a living?

It seems Mr. Saturday is a mortgage broker. I’ve seen some of your loans you have put together and you, my friend, are part of the problem. Is this guilt talking?

Does that PBG home loan ring a bell?

You made a ton of $ off of these people now you insult them? Why don’t you crawl back under that rock dirt bag.
Bank insider
5:45 PM, 4/26/2011

It is a home because I am willing to pay for it and because a home is what you make of a house when you live in it. Sounds like you do not have a home, just a place to sleep. The house is also with in my means that’s why I am trying get the lender to let me pay for it. Don’t go around judging people unless you know all the facts! I’m glad you have your life together and have no issues, must be nice to be Mr. Perfect! You too will be judged someday & I know God will forgive you:-)
@ Jeff Saturday continued
1:24 PM, 4/27/2011

PS

I asked Bank insider to meet me for lunch and I would tell him what I did for a living but he didn’t respond and it was taken down the next day.

Comment by oxide
2011-05-02 08:04:12

So unless you know what people like us are really going through to really fight to stay in our homes…The house is also with in my means that’s why I am trying get the lender to let me pay for it. Don’t go around judging people unless you know all the facts!

This wave of FB’s seems rather defiant compared to the sub-primes in 2008-2009. The sub-primes sheepishly said “I didn’t know what I was signing,” and quietly moved in with family while the inventory sat in the shadows. Who are these new yokels? Whoever they are, it sounds like they are depending on a refi* to stay in the home, and being mighty defensive about it.

According to our friendly Credit Suisse graph, there is a HUGE peak of Option ARM (mainly refis?) due to reset from May to September this year.** Some of that peak bled left to an earlier date when the options hit their ceiling. I guess these are the FB’s we’re seeing now.

Jeff, you should ask them for the “facts.” Or at least ask for their address and you can look those facts up. Then you can ask them what they did with the “consideration” money. :-)

————
*As I always ask: “Refi into what?” I guess they want to keep their Option payment indefinitely, but no bank is going to allow that, and i don’t blame the bank.
** We’ve been watching this graph for so many years, and now it’s finally starting…

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Comment by palmetto
2011-05-02 14:35:18

jeff saturday is my hero! Tell it like it is, bro’. Testify from the mountaintops.

As I’ve often said, appropos of some other issues, it ain’t necessarily the politicians, banksters, and whatever other boogeymen people want to blame. Your worst enemies can be your so-called friends and neighbors.

FBs wanted it coming and going. Some of us were looked down on and taunted for renting and trying to warn of the bubble. Now, we’re not allowed our schadenfreude by the FBs. Well, in their minds, anyway.

If these jamokes hadn’t been idiots and participated in the bubble, paying ridiculous prices for property, maybe we wouldn’t be where we are now. So shove it right in their smacked-ass pusses. Yeah, judge ‘em. They sure judged us during the bubble.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2011-05-02 07:00:32

“Somebody owns these houses…it ain’t the people who borrowed money and didn’t pay it back.”

This, plus the fact that so many folks currently appear to be living high on the hog by not paying their mortgage, and the recurrent news stories about foreclosure backlogs and record amounts of time to process foreclosures, not to mention just sending out NODs to folks who stopped paying their mortgages, suggest that we have years ahead before the bubble fully unwinds.

Meanwhile some of us will doubtless keep on throwing money away on rent.

Comment by Ben Jones
2011-05-02 07:19:08

There’s a lot of issues that the media doesn’t cover. I can only speak for my area, but it is not uncommon to see a foreclosure that includes these actions; cash-out refinancing, multiple times.

Also, I wish you could see what many of these people do to these houses before they walk away. I have yet to learn of a single local instance where the lender went after someone for trashing their house.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2011-05-02 07:29:05

“I have yet to learn of a single local instance where the lender went after someone for trashing their house.”

This anecdote fits the description of a system which punishes the responsible and excuses, if not rewards, the profligate.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-05-02 12:52:58

“I have yet to learn of a single local instance where the lender went after someone for trashing their house.”

When people refer to things going Mad Max I think of occurances like this. Little by little law and order being chipped away.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-05-02 10:05:46

“‘Strategic default is a sound business decision for many people,’ Stopa said. ‘Bankers try to make it about morality, but they have to realize that there is an overwhelming incentive at this point for people to strategically default.’”

University of Arizona law prof Brent White makes the same point in his book, Underwater Home. From the book’s promotional copy:

“This book will devote significant time, however, to discussing whether or not you should default on your mortgage. It will do so for two reasons. First, everyone agrees that it’s okay for you to keep paying your mortgage. What’s controversial is whether or not it’s acceptable for you to default and, if so, under what circumstances. Second, and most critically, unless you default on your mortgage, other options such as a loan modification or short-sale are likely off the table for you. Deciding not to default is, in many cases, the equivalent of deciding to do nothing about your situation.”

Comment by Bad Andy
2011-05-02 12:07:22

If banks were willing to take a part of the loss right now in exchange for part of whatever the gains might be at sale time, many would not be in the position of doing a strategic default.

I can’t see where anyone in their right mind would put their credit score as being worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.

The way I see it is the bank and the buyer both were investors. Why should only one side take a loss? I also buy into the theory that you made a secured loan, if you don’t feel that the collateral is adequate you should have required more down or not made the loan.

 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2011-05-02 10:24:43

Interesting stories. In Tampa, remaining units in the Channelside Towers — largely dark condo buildings famously described by a commenter here as “Soviet” in their appearance — finally sold after prices were halved earlier this year. Of course, the owner of the “entertainment complex” across the street now is having difficulty (amusingly, the entity was financed by an Irish bank), so when one door opens, another closes. I never understood how living next door to a Hooters, a theater megaplex, unremarkable bars, and a cruise ship terminal got turned into a selling point even in a state that appreciates that kind of tacky. Same thing with condos in Ybor City. I remember reading about that before construction started and thinking, “what?”

Comment by Bad Andy
2011-05-02 11:49:43

Channelside is a joke in my opinion. My wife likes Wet Willie’s but it’s not for a beer drinker like myself. The only upside is when I go to Tampa on business downtown, I don’t have to go to Ybor or settle for the hotel bar. You couldn’t pay me to live across the street.

Comment by snake charmer
2011-05-02 12:39:05

CentroYbor is similar, as is BayWalk in St. Pete and The Landings in Jacksonville and what used to be Church Street Station in Orlando. Every hyped commercial project ends up as a bland appeal to the lowest common denominator that repels more people than it attracts.

Comment by palmetto
2011-05-02 14:25:17

You guys have got it nailed. Tampa loves to hype Channelside and Ybor City. Big condo complexes in this area scare the peewadden out of me. Imagine living in one if the power ever went out.

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Comment by Overtaxed
2011-05-02 12:33:24

How about putting a Theater, a few bars, and lots of high end shopping in the middle of the hood? Then trying to get 500/sq/ft for the condos that, right outdoors, have a strong resemblance to wartime Iraq?

At least these condos sound like they are on the water. In West Palm CityPlace, all you’ve got is slum/ghetto to all sides. Hell of a place for high end condos.

 
 
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