May 18, 2011

They Thought They Could Do No Wrong

ABC 7 Chicago reports from Illinois. “A new survey finds nearly half of homeowners in the Chicago area owe more on their mortgage than the home is worth. ABC7’s Leah Hope has more on the impact of this downturn: Those trying to relocate for a job or find more space for a growing family will likely not get what they want if they are trying to sell. Homeowner Erica Rivera and her sons live in a condo in east Garfield Park. The boys need space, but selling now is not an option. ‘There’s no condos listed in our area that are not short sales…so we we’re not going to sell for less than it’s worth,’ Rivera said.”

“Rivera will try rent their condo and rent a house with a yard for the boys. ‘It’s painful,’ said Rivera. ‘That was the first place that I bought. I bought six years ago, thinking in the future I’ll make some money off of it, and no.’”

“Jen Lavender-Thompson took advantage of the good homes prices and bought last year. The trade off: They lost money selling, but hoped the value of the new South Loop row house will eventually grow. ‘It could take up to a year to sell your condo now,’ said Lavender-Thompson. ‘So, yeah, I do feel like you’re kind of shackled to your real estate now.’”

The Columbus Dispatch in Ohio. “Bill McCorkle was struggling last year with how to drive traffic to his Little Bear Village subdivision when he came up with an idea straight out of a 1930s movie: Let’s put on a show! The result will be seen Thursday, when the Polaris Home Show opens a four-day run at McCorkle’s golf-course community. Unlike the annual Parade of Homes, which typically features homes north of $500,000, the Polaris event will showcase a dozen homes between $280,000 and $450,000.”

“‘I felt there was a need for lower-priced homes in a show,’ said McCorkle, who launched Little Bear Village in 2007. ‘The average working person isn’t looking for a $1 million home.’”

The Kansas City Star. “In late 2007 it appeared that the conversion of five iconic 1920s apartment buildings on Rockhill Road into Rockhill Condominiums was a failed project that might never be completed. First Community Bank, which held the developer’s loan, foreclosed with only about 10 percent of the work complete. What appeared to be a doomed project has turned into a success story, with nearly half of the newly renovated condominiums sold, one more under contract and renovations complete in all but one of the buildings.”

“After exploring the possibility of selling to another developer at a greatly reduced price, the bank decided to explore the feasibility of retaining the property and finding a company to complete the renovations, manage the property and market the condos. Jim Tiehen, president of the Tiehen Group, said his company was a perfect fit for what the bank wanted to do, since it has experience in renovation, property management and marketing.”

“‘The previous developer had been trying to sell the units for around $500,000 and we did a market analysis to determine what a realistic price would be,’ Tiehen said.”

“Tiehen Maintenance immediately began renovating the first two buildings and Tiehen Realty began marketing the condominiums in 2009 with prices ranging from $315,500 to $354,000. ‘That is a great value, when you consider the price per square foot,’ Tiehen said. ‘You just can’t find that for this price near the Plaza.’”

“Mike Tiehen with Tiehen Realty concurs. ‘Before purchasing, buyers have compared our condos to ones in high-rise buildings near the Plaza that are much more expensive,” he said. “When they do their homework and compare our finishes and space priced at $150 a square foot vs. the same finishes and space a half-mile away for $250 a square foot, the decision usually becomes clear.’”

The Journal Sentinel in Wisconsin. “Permits for home construction are off to their worst start in at least a dozen years in some of Wisconsin’s biggest metro areas. Hesitation is gripping the market, said Scott Stortz, broker/owner of Star Properties Inc., a residential real estate firm in Jackson. ‘I think what’s happening is that buyers are afraid to make a move because they are afraid prices are going to drop,’ Stortz said. ‘Our whole lives we’ve been told ‘Buying a home is a great investment. It’s an asset. It’s a good thing to do.’ Now, we’re finding, ‘Oh, housing prices can go down and value can go down,’ and it’s kind of a shock to the system.’”

“‘Buyers are much more picky,’ Stortz said. ‘They are less forgiving than they have ever been. If they are already getting it at an awesome price, they are still wanting more.’”

From WisBusiness. “Wisconsin’s banks and credit unions are ‘improving by the day and becoming more stable than we’ve seen in three years,’ according to the head of the state agency that regulates them. ‘It’s been a very difficult recession for all financial institutions, but less so in Wisconsin than in other parts of the country,’ Peter Bildsten told WisBusiness in an interview.”

“Bildsten, secretary of the Wisconsin Department of Financial Institutions, said six banks have failed in the state during the recession dating back to 2009, with three coming in the first quarter of this year. He said the recent failures were due mainly to accumulated stress. ‘No matter how good of a banker or credit union you are, when property values fall 20 to 30 percent on a home or a commercial property, it’s hard to underwrite that out of a loan,’ he said.”

“Bildsten, a Baraboo resident, credits Wisconsin’s relatively conservative business culture for keeping the lending crisis here from being as bad as in other parts of the country. ‘At times when those curves were going up and people were seeing dramatically increasing property values in Arizona and Florida and hearing their friends and neighbors talking about their second homes doubling in value, we might have gotten jealous. But all in all, by missing out on some of those bubbles, that’s been a plus for Wisconsin’s economy.’”

“Bildsten said he turned down personal friends who wanted loans to invest in real estate projects outside Wisconsin. Some of them ended up going to other banks and then lost large amounts of money, he added. ‘They thought they could do no wrong,’ he said.”

The St Cloud Times in Minnesota. “The developer of a housing subdivision in Brockway Township with a faulty community sewer system faces mounting state fines and threatened legal action from Stearns County. Dozens of privately owned sewer systems were approved in Minnesota during the housing boom without clear rules about who is responsible for maintaining and repairing them. The MPCA estimated in January that about one-third of the roughly 100 community sewer systems that treat at least 10,000 gallons a day are having trouble meeting regulatory requirements.”

“Residents of Mulberry Meadows are frustrated that the problems still aren’t resolved and worried they will end up bearing the costs. ‘The situation hasn’t gotten any better, only worse,’ homeowner Nancy Costanzo said.”

“Joshua Stang, who has lived in Mulberry Meadows for almost four years, took photos about a month ago that show water pooled on the ground. ‘You just can’t imagine what the smell was like,’ Stang said. ‘It was unbearable.’”

The Duluth News Tribune in Minnesota. “Foreclosures, wary lenders and economic uncertainty contributed to a shrinking number of Duluthians owning their own homes over the past decade. ‘The 2010 census definitely would have caught a big part of the foreclosure crisis that was happening in full swing by 2009, with people losing their homes,’ said Tony Barrett, professor of economics at the College of St. Scholastica. ‘But it’s more than that. It’s lenders less willing to make home loans and people unable to make the down payment because of the economy … and suddenly you have fewer people buying and more people renting.’”

“Keith Hamre, community development manager for the city, agreed. ‘It’s a lot harder for people to get a loan now. They need higher down payments. They can’t have too much debt. That’s taken a lot of people out of the (buying) market for now,’ Hamre said. ‘We still have relatively affordable housing, but not if you can’t get a loan.’”

“Joe Johnson, executive VP at North Shore Bank of Commerce, said some people have, indeed, been pushed out of the buying market. ‘The scrutiny level is certainly higher now than it was before 2008,’ he said. ‘Then again, we have people who are qualified to make a move but can’t get out of their current home because of the drop in values. And foreclosures have had an impact on that.’”

The Star Tribune in Minnesota. “During 2010 Minnesota ranked eighth among all states when it came to complaints of mortgage fraud on loans originated since 2006, but the percentage of complaints made last year fell dramatically from the previous year and was well below levels that are considered normal, according to a report. Mortgage fraud in all of its variations helped trigger the housing bust. Fraudulent appraisals, false loan applications and other illegal and unethical doings became all too common. Such activities helped inflate home values before the bubble burst.”

“Now even as the rest of the economy recovers, foreclosure rates are still historically high and home prices in the metro area are at their lowest levels in more than a decade. ‘It used to be a market where anybody with a pulse could get credit and you had rapid appreciation in home values, and those together were like a gold-plated invitation for fraud,’ said Prentiss Cox, a clinical law professor at the University of Minnesota.”

“Nobie and Purvis Singleton are tired. The retirees have been trying to save their lemon-yellow rambler from foreclosure since they met with a housing counselor in December 2008. Like so many families behind on their mortgage, they got stuck in loan modification limbo. Their payments were temporarily reduced while they waited for word about a permanent loan modification. For months, they patiently sent in the same documents over and over at Bank of America’s request — not an easy task for two seniors who use walkers to get around.”

“The couple, who fell behind after refinancing their home to pay off medical debts, are hopeful this will lead to a permanent payment reduction, but are understandably wary. ‘It’ll be something else after that I’m sure,’ said Nobie, 74.”

“‘Nothing will change until we have transparent, clear rules for who gets modifications and we have transparent, enforceable systems for making sure that the modification decisions were properly made and communicated,’ said Prentiss Cox, a University of Minnesota law professor and former assistant attorney general. He calls the bank bailouts and the foreclosure crisis a ‘national shame.’ ‘We pumped $2 trillion-plus into the banks and did almost nothing for homeowners.’”

The Petoskey News in Michigan. “Compared to year-ago levels, Northwest Michigan’s residential real estate market showed slight gains during 2011’s first quarter in terms of transaction prices and the total number of properties sold. ‘I really feel like we’re coming out … not fast, but we’re coming out from the (market) low of ‘09,’ said Pat Leavy, partner and owner at Petoskey’s Kidd & Leavy Real Estate, an agency specializing in higher-end home transactions. ”

“At Real Estate One of Petoskey, broker/owner C.T. Shuman said home sales at lower price points — in the $150,000 and lower range — have stayed fairly active, and there also has been noticeable demand for properties priced above $500,000. The middle range of the market, with homes priced at $250,000 to $500,000 — has remained more stagnant, he added.”

“Shuman said he’s noticed a decrease in the number of properties listed at his agency compared to a year ago. He believes this may reflect people waiting to see if the market strengthens before moving up to a new home. ‘I think that buyers that don’t have to sell are not selling,’ he said.”

“The presence of foreclosed properties on the market has had a restraining effect on real estate values locally and elsewhere. Short sales also have reined in market values somewhat, Shuman noted.”

“Steve Andreae, broker/owner at RE/MAX of Charlevoix, said foreclosures’ influence on the market probably won’t disappear. He noted that another wave of repossessions is predicted nationally, and that the local market could see the effect as well. ‘We know the defaults are still out there, but they just haven’t hit the market,’ Andreae said.”

“Shuman noted another recent challenge facing the market. With few comparable transactions as reference points, he said appraisals sometimes aren’t showing a value that meets or exceeds a home’s asking price, as lenders typically require. ‘I’ve had multiple deals fall apart this year because of the appraisals,’ he said.”

The Kalamazoo Gazette in Michigan. “If cable television were to make a reality show about life in some of Michigan’s suburban and rural counties, it might be called ‘Driving for Dollars.’ In prime residential counties such as Barry, Allegan, Livingston and Lapeer, more than half of all employed residents drive to jobs in other counties. Yet those ‘commuter counties’ boast median incomes well above the state average, according to recent figures from the U.S. Census Bureau. But rising gas prices and a stagnant housing market are prompting some to rethink how far they live from work.”

“Every metro area has at least one outlying community where residents live in nice homes and drive to good jobs in the city or nearby suburbs. That kind of development worked reasonably well for most of the past two decades in Barry County, which maintained a strong housing market and median household income about 20 percent above the state average.”

“But Barry and other commuter counties were battered by the twin hammers of a housing collapse and high gasoline prices. ‘We don’t have a backup plan when we have such a huge economic shift,’ said James McManus, planning director for Barry County, noting Barry has little industrial or commercial tax base to buffer what has been a 10 to 20 percent drop in home prices.”

“‘With tax revenue coming down on residential (property), we’ve felt a huge impact and significant cuts (in county government). … It’s here, and it’s painful,’ he said.”

The News Herald in Michigan. “We’re now heading into the spring selling season, among the busiest times for house sales. And whether buying or selling, the issue of a home’s price is a sensitive one. Most sellers, obviously, want to price their home to get the highest amount possible. Of course, they believe it is worth every dollar. They’ve lived in it, cared for it, possibly even remodeled it in the time they’ve been there. To many homeowners, it’s more than just a house.”

“But many potential buyers are looking for the best ‘deal.’ And especially in Michigan, where occupied homes are competing for sales with many foreclosed properties, buyers will critically examine your home and base their offer on its strengths and weakness as compared with others they have looked at in the area.”

“Many people still overvalue their home, insisting on an excessively high asking price. Regardless of the size or condition of your home, this is one of the worst things you can do.”

“Sellers may have good reasons for setting a high sale price. They may be hoping to use the proceeds to pay off their current mortgage as well as taxes, legal costs, unpaid utility bills or their real estate agent’s commission. Of course, many also look to use profits to pay for part of their next home.”

“But the realities of the present real estate market mean that there are usually far more sellers than buyers. A house that is overpriced will linger on the market. The longer a house sits unsold, the more people may start to view it suspiciously and may begin thinking there must be something wrong with the property. That may cause sellers to panic and they end up dropping their price below the neighborhood average just to generate interest. This means they’re now willing to accept less than what they likely could have gotten if they had just priced their home right the first time.”

“In addition to correctly pricing their home, sellers also have to remember to be somewhat flexible in negotiations, especially in Michigan’s still-soft housing market. Remember that most buyers expect to negotiate on the price. That doesn’t always mean they’re looking to ’steal’ the property: In many cases, homes still sell somewhat close to the asking price, presuming the homes are competitively priced with others in the area.”

“Sometimes, sellers will counter a fair offer with a price only a few dollars less than their asking price. This is usually a mistake. You risk offending potential buyers who rightly assume you’re not really ‘negotiating’ at all.”




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49 Comments »

Comment by Muggy
2011-05-18 06:20:57

Petoskey… a buncha stoners!

Comment by Bad Andy
2011-05-18 07:21:00

lol…I’m sure few non-michiganders get that though.

 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-05-18 06:35:07

“you’re kind of shackled to your real estate now”

Debt, the ties that bind.

Comment by whyoung
2011-05-18 09:13:52

Voluntary indentured servitude.

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-05-18 06:41:41

“Rivera will try rent their condo and rent a house with a yard for the boys. ‘It’s painful,’ said Rivera. ‘That was the first place that I bought. I bought six years ago, thinking in the future I’ll make some money off of it, and no.’”

Single mom with two boys will now become an accidental landlord. I hope she knows what she is getting into…

Comment by Professor Bear
2011-05-18 07:13:46

Maybe the boys will learn useful home maintenance and renovation skills at an early age?

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-05-18 09:52:39

Single mom with two boys will now become an accidental landlord. I hope she knows what she is getting into…

I’ll bet that she doesn’t. She probably thinks that all she’ll have to do is sit back and wait for the rent checks to show up in the mail.

The next chapter of this story will be interesting. The checks won’t arrive, she’ll have to go around and collect from the tenants, and then she’ll see how badly they’re treating her place. Oh, the horror! How could people do such things to a house?

The third chapter will be all about the joys of trying to evict deadbeat tenants.

Okay, it’s time for the fourth chapter. Who wants to keep this saga going?

Comment by oxide
2011-05-18 14:29:40

Fourth chapter is that she will never rent out that CONDO unit for enough money to make the payment on the bloated mortgage, much less the condo fees.

 
 
Comment by zee_in_phx
2011-05-18 12:44:32

wait, wait, you forgot the 2am calls regarding backed-up toilets, roof leaks on Sunday afternoon and broken HVAC systems in mid-summer.
i see a realty show ” who wants to be a accidental landlord” in the making.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-05-18 12:54:06

Looks like zee’s got the chapter four outline going. Who’s up for chapter five?

Comment by Montana
2011-05-18 13:52:30

Chap 5, the evicted tenants join a class action and SUE!

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Comment by mikeinbend
2011-05-18 17:57:22

Upstairs tenant calls you in OR from California to tell you the downstairs unit has cancelled trash pickup and trash is approaching 10 feet; can I do anything? Smelly!

Animal control catches pitbull who bit the neighbor kid through the fence (we watched that one from upstairs; what a snarling beast; it took a backup unit he was so vicious) I did approve a “small dog”.

Lady with one wolf cross moves in the rest of the pack; changes locks and barricades herself when we tell her we approved one, not five. We had to get animal control to find her hiding in the back bedroom and evict her without ever receiving the last couple months rent.

Calls on New Years eve to tell us the hot water is out.

And the list goes on. But still at it; just a better screener than when I was younger. I was the proverbial slumlord just begging for problems

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Kim
2011-05-18 06:54:19

From the Chicago article:

“The good news in all this: it’s a great time to buy.”

Houses sit and sit on the market (one new build not to far from me is going on five years!! ‘Course the DOM has been reset a few times and it was on and off FSBO, so the surface numbers won’t show that). Sellers either won’t - or can’t afford to - sell at prices the market will bear. Buyers wait what seems like an eternity for short sales only to see a majority fall through. Buying a house these days is a drawn out and frustrating experience, and we’re just starting the next leg down in prices.

“A great time”? For who?

Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-05-18 09:02:31

We have a new build down the road that goes on and off the market. It’s asking price has never dropped that I’m aware of. It is a high priced deal in a cul de sac surrounded by smaller and aging 50s and 60s ranches, a few older colonials and a crumbling apt building. No other homes have been built on the cul de sac. A busy commuting road surrounds the cul de sac on both its entry and non-entry side.

I’ve gotta wonder if the bank owns it now. Still asking original price though.

Comment by Realtors Are Liars
2011-05-18 18:51:47

Hang on to that price. DON’T LET GO!

 
 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2011-05-18 07:09:35

“‘I felt there was a need for lower-priced homes in a show,’ said McCorkle, who launched Little Bear Village in 2007. ‘The average working person isn’t looking for a $1 million home.’”

And such a person in Columbus, Ohio, instead is looking for a house priced between $280,000 and $450,000? This obviously will be news to Mr. McCorkle, but the average working person is living paycheck to paycheck, and it won’t be getting better anytime soon.

As for the Kansas City Star piece, I’ve never been to Kansas City. Is there a realistic market for $300,000 condominiums?

Comment by Bad Andy
2011-05-18 07:26:55

The KC I visited while working wouldn’t support $300K condos. Could things have gotten better from 2002 to 2011?

 
Comment by whyoung
2011-05-18 08:07:48

“As for the Kansas City Star piece, I’ve never been to Kansas City. Is there a realistic market for $300,000 condominiums?”

Not in that neighborhood.
Although it is close to the Plaza (KC’s Fifth Ave or Rodeo Drive) and near some nice cultural amenities, it is far enough away to be in an entirely different type of area in terms of daily living for both convenience and security. While far from the worst neighborhood in town, it’s between the really nice area to the west and significantly less nice areas to the east.

As to condos in general, you can easily buy a SFH in a nicer neighborhood for less, and except for retirees or others who can’t deal with doing up keep themselves, I’ve never understood condo buyers in KC.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2011-05-18 09:35:09

Condos have never really made sense to me except in young-nightlife city centers (and even then apartments make more sense) or beach complexes for snowbirds.

Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-05-18 11:35:16

The “young-nightlife city center” in KC is not downtown, it’s the Plaza and Westport (just north of the Plaza).

All the “real money” in KC lives in Mission Hills/Mission Woods, just to the southwest of the Plaza. Go onto Google Maps and get a load of the houses south/southeast of the Plaza. No McMansions there. We’re talking “Old School Mansions”

UMKC is just to the south of the condos in question. St Lukes Hospital is a few blocks north of the Plaza, at 43rd and Wornall.

The short version……if there’s anyplace within 250 miles of Kansas City that can support $300K condos, that’s the place. But it won’t support an unlimited number of $300K condos.

I’m guessing the clientele are:
-Trust funders set up in their “starter condo” by mom and dad. in Mission Hills, so Muffie and Scooter won’t be too far away from home.
-20-30 somethings who are still partying, and have no kids.
-Professionals working at St Lukes, or UMKC.

Hell, maybe I ought to move there.

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Comment by whyoung
2011-05-18 12:13:00

But I still contend that these particular condos are a bit on “the wrong side of the tracks”, esp. at that price. There are houses and condos more on the S.W. side of the Plaza asking much less $ and offering some walkability.

I lived in that neighborhood in the 1970’s, it was more or less a student/artist ghetto. It went downhill in the 80’s and my friends that were still there moved away because of safety issues. KC has very strong invisible dividing lines.

They’ve attempted to start some downtown nightlife with the 2007-8 opening of the “power and light district” but as far as I can tell it has been handicapped by the economy as well as some “conflicts” among a diverse clientele. I think it gets some conventioneers.
My friends who still live in KC consider it crowded, overpriced, not that much fun and possibly dangerous. It’s also pretty far from middle class residential areas in a “car culture” town that makes bar hopping problematic for locals.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-05-18 13:49:56

The “diverse clientele” is moving into the Plaza on Friday-Saturday night. And, no, they aren’t shopping. Fights, shoppers being shoved around, more fights, random minor-league sexual assaults (i.e., a$$-slapping, boob-grabbing)

The people who actually spend money in the Plaza aren’t going to put up with that crap, and will go elsewhere, if the situation continues. The Mission Hills, Kansas cops have the money and the manpower, and the backing of the residents to create their own “Green Zone” if needed.

The Plaza area is in KCMO. So the PTB in KCMO have a decision……do what it takes to keep the BS down, or let one of the local “Crown Jewels” develop a rep, and turn into another Bannister Mall?

 
Comment by whyoung
2011-05-18 17:02:24

J.C. Nichols must be spinning in his grave.

 
 
 
 
Comment by CincyDad
2011-05-18 09:28:58

“And such a person in Columbus, Ohio, instead is looking for a house priced between $280,000 and $450,000? This obviously will be news to Mr. McCorkle, but the average working person is living paycheck to paycheck, and it won’t be getting better anytime soon.”

I think McCorkle is thinking of transplants to Columbus, not local working families.

Columbus was a lot like Cincy….. growing steadily with a general influx of people transfering in (cincy: P&G, GE aircraft, Kroger, Macey’s, etc - Clbus: Nationwide, Limited Brands, state gov’t support, etc). Transfers generally look for new-builds in communities with other transplants. When they saw the prices of homes in Ohio, comparred to where they were coming from, they bought without much thought to resale. Besides, they probably had a lot of equity from selling elsewhere.

Well, those transplants have slowed lately, more dramatically in Columbus I hear, than in Cincy.

When you build homes for equity locusts from the coasts and Chicago, you should not be surprised that the fawcet got turned off 3 years ago.

Comment by oxide
2011-05-18 14:34:58

The comments on the Columbus market are quite funny. They sound like HBBers, doing rent/buy and sq foot calculations and figuring in school taxes.

Columbus has a lot of white-collar jobs in the $100K range, but there are more jobs for the $100K set than there is $100K set. Especially since that $100K set bought $550K houses in 2007 (like total idiots).

Comment by oxide
2011-05-18 14:40:43

Sorry, I mean they built more HOUSES meant for the $100K set than there is $100K set. And those are supremely ugly houses.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2011-05-18 07:12:41

“For months, they patiently sent in the same documents over and over at Bank of America’s request — not an easy task for two seniors who use walkers to get around.

The couple, who fell behind after refinancing their home to pay off medical debts, are hopeful this will lead to a permanent payment reduction, but are understandably wary. ‘It’ll be something else after that I’m sure,’ said Nobie, 74.”

They sound like ideal hosts for parasitic vampire squids.

Comment by Overtaxed
2011-05-19 03:05:03

Why would you MTG your house to pay medical bills? That doesn’t make a lot of sense, especially if they are seniors (and therefore have no income to attack). Medical bills are treated differently than other debt; having a house to live in is far more important than making sure the Dr can get another X5 for his wife..

At least, IMHO.

 
 
Comment by scdave
2011-05-18 07:19:03

“A great time”? For who ??

I would say for anyone that is in the market to buy like our friend Chile and some others on the board…

I do not think you will see mortgage financing in the reasonably near future be cheaper both in terms of interest rate & terms then they are today…I would speculate that you will not see it again in your life-time…That alone is reason to consider the move…Along with that, you have a opportunity to evaluate a lot of product that is being offered for sale under duress, and can likely purchase well under the replacement cost…

Comment by snake charmer
2011-05-18 08:13:34

I can’t agree with you, at least not for a buyer with cash. In my view there is an inverse correlation between housing prices and mortgage interest rates. Waiting for higher rates therefore is a good idea. Cheap money distorts asset prices, sometimes grossly.

The hiccup here is “waiting for higher interest rates.” It could be awhile, because we’re doing everything we can as a country and people to keep rates artificially low. That’s what happens in an economy where assets are more important than wages and consumption is more important than saving.

Comment by scdave
2011-05-18 08:47:03

In my view there is an inverse correlation between housing prices and mortgage interest rates ??

So is that what is driving your purchase decision for a owner occupied residence…The assumption that prices will fall further when rates rise and that would be the more opportunistic time to buy ??

Comment by snake charmer
2011-05-18 09:39:54

Granted, it is an assumption, but I’m comfortable with it. Cheap money helped cause the price rises we saw during the housing bubble, just like cheap money is helping to cause commodity and other bubbles now.

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Comment by polly
2011-05-18 10:38:44

Assume that the buyer can afford to pay $2000 a month (using nice round numbers here) in just interest. The rest of PITI will be on top of that. Also assume, for now, no downpayment.

At 5% interest rates, that will buy $480,000 of house.

At 8% interest rates, that will buy $300,000 of house.

At 10% interest rates, that will buy $240,000 of house.

Now, assume that you have a $100,000 downpayment but don’t use it to buy “more” house.

In the 5% interest rate environment, you have a $380,000 morgage and interest payments of $1583 a month

In the 8% environment, you have a $200,000 morgage and interest payments of $1333 a month

In the 10% environment, you have a $140,000 mortgage and interest payments of $1167 a month

If you have substantial cash, higher interest rates are a better time to buy. In general, if you ever expect to sell, you don’t want to buy when what you pay will be maximized through low interest rates.

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Comment by scdave
2011-05-18 15:31:31

Lots of “assumptions” Polly….

 
Comment by polly
2011-05-18 15:48:31

Yeah, but sticking numbers in helps you see possible trends. If you have $x to spend per month, the higher the interest rate, the lower the principle. And if you have a big downpayment, you save more because of that downpayment in a higher interest rate environment.

Since we were told over and over that real estate prices had never gone down on a nationwide basis before this crash, I guess that the last time interest rates went way up, prices didn’t crash. I believe that is largely explained as the influence of middle class women gradually entering the workforce, and maybe some by home buyers not having as much other debt. Well, as far as I know, most families don’t have a spare non-working adult around who is willing and/or able to enter the workforce. And wages don’t appear to be on a clear upward path. So if the amount people can afford to pay each month is staying about the same, then prices have to fall if interest rates go up. There just isn’t a lot of slack in the system.

Personally, I think that higher downpayments would be a more important factor if we went back to the market setting mortgage terms, but I don’t have any numbers to back that up. It is entirely a guess.

 
 
 
Comment by Bad Andy
2011-05-18 08:53:41

Cash is your friend in many of the condo complexes nearby to me. A lot of condos in buildings with low dues are running $20K or less. As long as the building is rentable you can move at will and play landlord. As long as you’re not looking to flip the property I would find it difficult to go wrong in this scenario.

 
 
 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-05-18 08:53:29

“Sometimes, sellers will counter a fair offer with a price only a few dollars less than their asking price. This is usually a mistake. You risk offending potential buyers who rightly assume you’re not really ‘negotiating’ at all.”

It’s nice to see somebody finally concerned about offending buyers. It’s been a lot of years where it was all about the seller.

Comment by Bad Andy
2011-05-18 08:55:47

The question becomes who is being reasonable. If a seller is priced at the lower 10% of their neighborhood, it’s fair to assume they’ll only come down a bit.

That said, a buyer should never worry about offending a seller. The worst they can say is no.

 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2011-05-18 09:32:12

The listing prices have been offending sensible would-be buyers for years!

 
Comment by 2banana
2011-05-18 09:43:43

Remember when you had to write the sellers a letter begging them to sell you their house and promising that you will feed the squirrels…

:-/

Comment by snake charmer
2011-05-18 13:09:14

That was an interesting mentality. A family member of mine and his wife bought in southern California in the 2003 time frame. When they made an offer, he read to me, over the phone, a ridiculous thank-you note he planned to send the seller, describing the house in the most fantastic way. I asked — naively — why such an exercise was necessary when it was just a transaction.

He also told me that, by 2005, he was receiving unsolicited offers in his mailbox to buy the house.

 
 
Comment by Kim
2011-05-18 11:33:22

“It’s nice to see somebody finally concerned about offending buyers. It’s been a lot of years where it was all about the seller.”

Sure is.

A house upon which we made an offer in January is now listed 5K below their counter-offer to us. We were not offended so much as amused. They’ve reset their DOM and dropped their price slightly, and still no contract.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2011-05-18 13:54:46

Have you considered making an offer 15k below your previous offer?

Comment by Kim
2011-05-18 16:49:04

“Have you considered making an offer 15k below your previous offer?”

Well, not a bad idea. Our offer was $75,000 below asking. We think it was fair and could justify with comps (not perfect comps since the house styles vary widely in that particular neighborhood, but probably close enough for an appraisor). Supposedly there was an offer higher than ours submitted, but the couple went overseas not to be heard from again. We were told (months ago) the sellers were hoping they’d come back and make an even higher counteroffer. Riiiiiiggght…

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Ken Best
2011-05-18 11:14:44

http://www.smartmoney.com/spend/real-estate/how-the-8000-tax-credit-cost-home-buyers-15000-1304981110838

…………
The government’s recent $8,000 cash incentive for first-time home buyers has proved even more costly for recipients than for taxpayers, according to data released Monday. Typical buyers have lost twice as much to price declines as they received from the program.

The median home value fell to about $170,000 in March from $185,000 a year earlier, according to Zillow.com. That means a buyer who closed on a house just before the tax-credit program expired in April 2010 collected $8,000 but has since lost $15,000 in value. Those who bought earlier in the program have done worse; the median price is down $20,000 from March 2009.

…..

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-05-18 12:12:22

and those who bought earlier have to pay back the $8000…

 
Comment by 2banana
2011-05-18 12:25:03

Government programs are not set-up to help the average citizen.

Think three times before you get involved with any government program.

If there is any other way to get the job done without “government help” - it usually is the better way.

 
Comment by redrum
2011-05-19 06:58:13

Which means this program worked out great for the sellers, right? Increased the demand, and artificially inflated the selling price at the tax payers expense. What’s not to like about that !?!

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2011-05-18 17:33:55

“You risk offending potential buyers who rightly assume you’re not really ‘negotiating’ at all.”

The tables are turned now, as the risk used to be that of offending the sellers.

 
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