A Mess, A Battle, A War Zone In Florida
The St Petersburg Times reports from Florida. “Josephine Cartagena stepped out of Jefferson High School on Saturday morning with tears in her eyes. Her home is facing foreclosure. But that wasn’t the reason for her tears. These were happy ones. On this morning, she had found hope. Cartagena is one of more than 100 people who attended a foreclosure prevention assistance workshop hosted by U.S. Rep. Kathy Castor. The Chase representative she talked with on Saturday helped her set up a meeting with a person in Tampa to talk further about modifying her loan. ‘It’s like a beacon of light for me to be able to keep my house,’ Cartagena said.”
“But not everyone left happy. ‘There’s nothing being done here,’ said Ronald Roppolo of Brandon. ‘You keep submitting the same paperwork and nobody knows what the other people are doing.’”
“Chris Thayer of Tampa felt the same way. Thayer said he was approved for the Making Home Affordable Program last year but his lender, Bank of America, has since retracted the offer. He came Saturday to find out why, but wasn’t able to get an answer. ‘I just wanted to get assistance,’ Thayer said.”
The Bradenton Herald. “One Realtor calls it ‘the quiet before the storm.’ The ’storm’ is the flurry of foreclosed homes expected to saturate the market soon with word today that foreclosure filings in Manatee County increased 75 percent from March to April. ‘If those foreclosed homes are all stockpiled, at some point they’re going to all be on the market, and that’s going to further decrease the price of homes,’ says May Aston, a Realtor with ReMax Alliance Group who has been working with foreclosure sales since 1991. ‘And that’s not what we want. We want to stabilize, and you can’t stabilize if you keep getting clumped on the market.’”
“‘They’re just not on the market yet,’ says Nikki Smith, a Realtor with Coldwell Banker. ‘Right now, it’s almost like we don’t have any inventory.’ The lack of homes for sale is creating a seller’s market, Aston says, when the high rate of foreclosures should be creating a buyer’s market. ‘When we do get a property on the market, there’s five or six offers out there at a time. Then there’s a bidding war, which drives the price up.’”
“Smith says she suspects that the increased involvement of attorneys may be keeping even foreclosed properties from going on the market. ‘People have become very savvy. They’ve found all kinds of ways to make sure they stay in their house. Attorneys are involved. It’s a mess, a battle, a war zone.’”
The News Press. “The existing-home median price in Lee County surged to a two-year high of $118,900 - up 17 percent from $101,900 in March, according to statistics released by Florida Realtors. But real estate authorities said the sharp increase likely was caused mostly by the changing market for bank-owned foreclosure homes, not an actual 17 percent increase in value.”
“In Lee County, ‘the real reason it’s going up so much is that the low end, the foreclosure market, that spigot has been cut off. The low end is not coming on the market and buyers have to substitute higher-priced properties,’ said Denny Grimes, president of Denny Grimes & Co. at Royal Shell in Fort Myers.”
“A new experiment to help prevent foreclosures from further clogging the courts is coming to Southwest Florida in about two weeks. The program allows homeowners who have Fannie Mae-backed mortgage loans to go to mediation with their lender before a foreclosure lawsuit is filed, rather than after.”
“‘Before foreclosure, a lot of things are possible,’ said Roderick N. Petrey, Collins Center president. After foreclosure, ‘banks don’t want to make a deal,’ he said.
“But the problem is that even though the court mediation is mandatory, many homeowners simply don’t show up. ‘A lot of them are scared,’ Petrey said.”
“Currently it takes about 600 days in Florida for a foreclosure lawsuit to be processed. In the meantime, the houses are in inventory limbo until they are sold at fire-sale prices and further depress the real estate market, Petrey said. He is on the board of the BAC Florida Bank in Miami, which realizes about 40 cents on the dollar when a foreclosed property is sold, he said. And it appears the bottom of the real estate market has not been reached yet, Petrey said.”
“Within the next year, Hillsborough and Hernando counties expect to join Pasco, Pinellas and 20 other Florida counties in shifting foreclosure sales online. The foreclosure-heavy state was the first in the nation to allow online sales, when the Legislature approved the practice in October 2008.”
“Online, potential bidders are warned multiple times to check whether a property has multiple liens. An Orlando accountant submitted a $20,000 deposit for a home on which there was a mortgage for $220,000. After the bidding ended, he discovered a homeowners association had foreclosed for delinquent fees, the Orlando Sentinel reported in February. John Dey lost his deposit.”
“‘I said, ‘Oh, my God,’ he told the newspaper. ‘I just all of sudden lost $20,000. I’m sick to my stomach.’ He added: ‘At least it’s not $200,000.’”
The Tampa Tribune. “Florida’s turbulent housing market has had an unintended consequence: Thousands of homeowners don’t pay a dollar in property tax. Blame higher homestead exemptions and falling home prices that essentially removed houses from the tax rolls. Consider this condo conversion at the Towers at Carrollwood Village. One condo unit sold for $90,000 in 2005 and is now valued at $19,657. The homestead exemption is $17,250, bringing the taxable value to zero.”
“The Villas Condominiums has 282 units, said Chris Weiss of the Hillsborough County property appraiser’s office, and was also saturated with investor-owners. Both complexes have been hit hard by foreclosures, he said. A condo at the New Tampa development sold for $106,900 in 2005 and is now worth just $16,230. The homestead exemption brings the taxable value to nothing.”
“Private property appraiser David Teacher said he understands people wanting their neighbors to pay their fair share but, he said, there is an upside. Falling home prices and no — or low — property tax is a big incentive for investors to buy. Teacher said he has seen homes in East Tampa selling for as low as $7,000. Sure, he said, they need work, but most still could be good deals.”
“‘What better investment,’ he said. ‘Look at the return on your money. Some homes are selling for less than the cost of a car.’”
The Herald Tribune. “Sarasota County’s tax base took a hit for the fourth year in a row, dropping $2.7 billion — a bigger decline than state economists had projected. North Port continues to be the hardest hit among the county’s four cities, according to Sarasota County Property Appraiser Bill Furst, who put that city’s decline at 8.8 percent. North Port’s tax base has now dropped 59 percent since 2007.”
“The property appraiser’s estimate puts the four-year decline in Sarasota County’s tax base at $22.9 billion. That is a measurement in the change of the taxable value of property after exemptions, such as the homestead exemption and the Save Our Homes adjustment. Market values have dropped even more steeply. From 2007 to 2010, the market value of property dropped $30 billion, from $85 billion to $55 billion.”
“Claiming the real estate world has changed, Benderson Development wants to shed its promise that the University Town Center mall project would include 437 affordable homes. ‘2011 literally is a different planet,’ said Benderson project manager Paul Blackketter.”
“Referring to the sharp drop in home prices over the past four years, University of Central Florida economist Sean Snaith termed affordable housing ‘the housing formerly known as luxury housing.’ ‘I’m sure at the time … affordable housing was a real issue,’ he said. But now? ‘It seems kind of senseless.’”
The Sun Sentinel. “Miami developer Jorge Perez is taking reservations for a proposed oceanfront condominium in Hollywood – and he’s asking buyers to put down 70 percent of the purchase price before closing. During the housing boom, most condo buyers put down only 20 percent. Many were investors who turned big profits by flipping the units before they were even completed. Ultimately, not enough long-term owners bought condos. Values plummeted, creating a glut of properties for sale that left the condo market – and Perez – reeling.”
“The luxury condo will feature 49 units with two, three, four and five bedrooms, and the average sales price is $350 to $450 a square foot. Unit prices are expected to range from about $600,000 to $2 million.”
“‘I don’t think there’s enough people willing to belly up to the bar,’ said Longtime Miami housing consultant Lewis Goodkin. Goodkin said he’s surprised Perez is eager to jump back into the beleaguered condo sector. Perez is counting on demand from international buyers who have helped stabilize the overbuilt Miami market in the past two years, Goodkin said.”
“‘That’s the only justification I could see,’ he said. ‘If he was building this for the domestic market, I would absolutely not touch it.’”
“Apogee Beach will be about a mile south of Trump Hollywood, the luxury condo Perez built as part of a licensing agreement with Donald Trump. That was one of a handful of projects Perez handed back to lenders amid the housing downturn.”
From Flagler Live. “In Palm Coast and Flagler County, property values are still falling at double-digit rates. Home prices are also still falling. Short sales aside, homes are not selling. Foreclosures are burdening the housing supply. The county’s population has stalled or fallen in the past couple of years. Not only is there no indication that the housing market is returning. There is no indication that either city or county need new development.”
“Yet the city and the county have on paper close to 40,000 new homes approved between them, and 9 million square feet of new commercial and retail space. Those homes would more than double the population of the county–assuming there was demand for them, and assuming that, between the lingering crash in housing and values, that demand could somehow override the depressing effect a glut of home would have on local housing prices regardless of broader economic conditions.”
The Orlando Sentinel. “Twenty-five years of growth management, down the toilet. And all because legislators kept repeating the Big Lie. In the waning hours of the session, the Florida Legislature planted a sloppy smooch on the lips of the developers: It virtually eliminated state control of growth and turned the tables on any homeowner who tries to challenge a cookie-cutter subdivision planned for next door.”
“The accepted mantra was that excessive regulation had halted economic growth — code for ‘out-of-control homebuilding’ — in Florida. Really? On which planet? Look around. Exactly where has growth been hampered by all these dreadful regulations? How about in Orange County? Is there a single suitable swath of prime development land even left that isn’t besmirched by squat little houses?”
“The state Department of Community Affairs, before it was skinned alive, took a snapshot of developments either approved or pending since 2007, when the economy melted. The result? Some 630,965 new homes had been approved or requested for 410,126 acres. In Lake County alone, for example, the School Board estimated about 100,000 parcels have development approvals, which could more than double the population of Lake if houses went up on them all.”
“So, build! What’s stopping construction? Nothing.”
“What legislators failed even to mention is that during the boom years developers pushed to build what they wanted, when they wanted and where they wanted it. Weak — sometimes corrupt — elected officials helped them. The result was overbuilding of biblical proportion, which in turn created an extra heaping helping of special pain for Central Florida that other areas of the country sidestepped when the downturn hit.”
“Developers not only have failed to shoulder their share of responsibility for the economic disaster and the resulting vortex of foreclosures, but in the fantasy universe of the Florida Legislature, they’ve become the victims.”
On this morning, she had found hope. Cartagena is one of more than 100 people who attended a foreclosure prevention assistance workshop hosted by U.S. Rep. Kathy Castor. The Chase representative she talked with on Saturday helped her set up a meeting with a person in Tampa to talk further about modifying her loan. ‘It’s like a beacon of light for me to be able to keep my house,’ Cartagena said.”
Note to Josephine. There is NO hope.
Chase is going to squeeze every last dollar from you and STILL foreclose.
If you can’t afford the house - you can’t afford the house.
Walk away while you still have some money in the bank and/or in your 401k. Better yet - squat in the house until they kick you out and save 18+ months of mortgage/rent.
Something’s really wrong when a person gets that emotional over scheduling a meeting with a bank. Chase should be happy it even exists.
At least some of the other attendees had no illusions.
If they had no illusions they wouldn’t have shown up in the first place. These banks/investors are animals and will take whatever money they can as quickly as they can.
Bad Andy, you are truly evil.
Why? Because you just insulted animals. They have much more class than banks/investors.
‘It’s like a beacon of light for me to be able to keep my house,’ Cartagena said.”
Or maybe it’s train at the end of that tunnel or a lighthouse near the rocks.
How clever:
The banks own lots of mortgages that are underwater but somehow they need to convince the FBs that they should stay and pay rather than walk. So they promise the FBs loan modifications but somehow the banks keep losing the paperwork. This drives the FBs nuts but in the meantime the FBs keep staying and keep paying. The banks end up benifiting from their own incompetence; Funny how that is.
The FBs that decide to stay and not pay at least keep the house occupied and, if they they think there is some hope of gaining ownership these FBs will not only stay but they will put into the house time and money to keep the house kept up. Keeping the house occupied and kept up helps out whoever it is that owns the house. The banks win in this case because, even though they haven’t decided to foreclose (yet) the banks are the ones who own the house.
The foreclosed and soon-to-be-foreclosed houses are kept off the market so as to create an artificial shortage of houses for sale. Anybody reasonably good at math should understand that words can say anything but the truth can be found in the numbers. But because Joe6Pack isn’t all that good with numbers he’ll have to go with and believe in the words. It’s too bad for Joe that the words he believes in are coming from realtors and others who have large stakes in keeping home prices elevated.
The foreclosed and soon-to-be-foreclosed houses are kept off the market so as to create an artificial shortage of houses for sale. Anybody reasonably good at math should understand that words can say anything but the truth can be found in the numbers.
Which is why the Housing Bubble Blog is so valuable. If you’re not as quick with numbers as you need to be, others will get you up to speed.
“The Villas Condominiums has 282 units, said Chris Weiss of the Hillsborough County property appraiser’s office, and was also saturated with investor-owners. Both complexes have been hit hard by foreclosures, he said. A condo at the New Tampa development sold for $106,900 in 2005 and is now worth just $16,230. The homestead exemption brings the taxable value to nothing.”
Forget the taxes - OMG that is a HUGE HAIRCUT!
Hey 2 …we predicted some will sell for $1 and that will be too much.
When you add in insurance taxes hoa fees etc….you still might have negative cash flow…..but this homestead exemption, might prevent that drop to $1.
Of course you have a negative cash flow. If you rent it out, no homestead exemption. And you still have hoa fees, which certainly don’t go down when half the units are empty.
This is Florida. Many condos and houses will have to be torn down at taxpayer expense. There is no effective rental demand for crackerboxes miles from work, schools, shoppng and hospitals. A negative price? Of course there will be.
OF course, this does not apply to houses and condos on the beach where people really want to live once the price is right.
And barring significant damage, that sounds like a capitulation price. That’s the sort of price boomers with equity (and there still ARE plenty of ‘em) can buy outright when they retire.
Even if the price drops to $10,000, as long as the association is strong and paid up it’s a good value to the buyer. Remember that if it’s a place to live and you can afford it, at these prices it doesn’t much matter.
Homesteaders is for residents, not investors. This article is misleading, investors don’t receive homesteaders exemptions. And if they are, then the state of FL has a huge amount of unpaid taxes due. All it would take is some oversight and enforcement (LOL). FL is a joke! I can’t believe I’m sending my daughter to a FL state college, and paying out-of state tuition!
“Miami developer Jorge Perez is taking reservations for a proposed oceanfront condominium in Hollywood – and he’s asking buyers to put down 70 percent of the purchase price before closing.
“The luxury condo will feature 49 units with two, three, four and five bedrooms, and the average sales price is $350 to $450 a square foot. Unit prices are expected to range from about $600,000 to $2 million.”
Great business plan.
Everyone with $1,400,000 cash just laying around - raise your hand!
There are people in Latin America with that kind of cash lying around, literally. They are involved in the illegal drug trade and are looking to launder said money. If I were the Sun-Sentinel, or the FBI, I’d take a closer look at the “international buyers” who have stabilized the south Florida condo market.
Do the condos come with
servant’s bodyguard’s quarters?Dang it! I need to proof before posting!
Do the condos come with
servant’sbodyguard’s quarters?Drug dealers and their friends with launder money do!
Time to overhaul foreclosure process? ‘Court’s cry for help’
By Kimberly Miller Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 7:23 p.m. Sunday, May 22, 2011
WEST PALM BEACH — Nearly a quarter of the nation’s home foreclosures have Florida addresses, leaving the Sunshine State with the largest chunk of the country’s mortgage woe.
The number of Florida loans in foreclosure - 466,454 - is more than the total number of loans in 22 states, according to a new report from the Mortgage Bankers Association that looked at mortgage delinquencies in the first quarter of this year. Florida’s share of the national foreclosure pie is 23.7 percent.
And while some states are on the “mend,” churning through foreclosures and getting properties back on the market, Florida’s foreclosure inventory remains mired in a robo-signing scandal and an overburdened court system that has now lost additional resources to chip away at a 310,770-case backlog.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/money/foreclosures/time-to-overhaul-foreclosure-process-courts-cry-for-1491555.html - 85k -
Great comments after that article. I think the Floridians are starting to get it:
Pam Bondi, our state attorney general, needs to get her head out of her backside and recognize that the troubles in our court system are caused directly by banks. Banks created fraudulent documents, banks committed fraud on the courts, banks refused to work with homeowners…
JP Morgan Chase is on track to profit approx. $15 BILLION in ‘11; by gosh and by golly we need to recognize that Chase, like WAMU before them, is responsible for this mess.
FINE THEM! C’mon, Pam! FINE THEM BIG TIME.
LizinSarasota
9:38 AM, 5/23/2011
Foreclosures must stay judicial. The court’s backlog is because “banks” and their attys/”mills” commit massive fraud/forgery–assignments of mortgage, service of process, affidavits, mortgage documents, promissory notes, etc.
To reduce caseload, the court should dismiss cases w/prejudice for fraud and sanction-fees/costs/fines/etc-ANY/ALL parties involved (”banks”, MERS, attys, etc), and as required turn ANY/ALL said parties over to authorities (SAO/Feds/FL Bar/etc.) for prosecution, etc.
must stay judicial
1:29 PM, 5/23/2011
What a joke. The problem is that the courts are not following the CRP or the law itself.
Dear Pam Bondi,
I am upset by your lighthanded approach to the fraud that banks and foreclosure law firms have so far gotten away with in this state.
As the chief law enforcement officer in Florida, and a member of the Florida Bar, your duty is clear. To do anything less than full prosecution on those who would, fabricate, and use fraudulent documents in court proceedings is a violation of your oath!
John Anderson
12:22 PM, 5/24/2011
Of course, let’s completely ignore that the backlog may have something to with ohhh….. millions of people signing for houses they could never afford (hoping to strike it rich) and then NOT paying the notes due when their scheme fell apart.
Millions more pulled mythical equity from houses that were appraised so high they considered themselves rich and now do not want to pay because they are “victims” too. Besides, the Hummer/Lexus/BMW/Mercedes has a lot of miles on it now and that European vacation is in the past.
Millions still live in these houses they could NEVER afford, have not paid a payment in months if not years, and still are called “victims”. They embrace anything to delay and their mantra must be “By golly, we’re mad and we won’t take it anymore!”
I grew up in a family where “We Can’t Afford That” was like a mantra.
As I got older, I realized that my folks could have paid for a lot of things that they said they couldn’t afford. But, instead of buying this, that, or the other thing, they placed their priorities elsewhere.
In short, I learned that there’s much more to life than conspicuous consumption.
“mythical equity”
That needs to be accompanied by the sound of someone pulling their fingers over the strings of a harp.
Like my neighbor Eric who is loading his furniture into a POD in his driveway now after living rent free for 3 years. This after he took $180k of (harp) mythical equity out so he could live like a king.
I have no great sympathy for those who pulled equity out of their houses or who were speculating in real estate. They palyed a big part in this mess.
But it is essential to the rule of law and the integrity of our courts that banks be held to the same standards of evidence and procedure to which anyone else would be held.
Our entire society is like ever since we mistakenly embraced “just in time”, a system that has no allowances for anomalies of any kind, thereby guaranteeing failure when one inevitably happens.
“A new experiment to help prevent foreclosures from further clogging the courts is coming to Southwest Florida in about two weeks. The program allows homeowners who have Fannie Mae-backed mortgage loans to go to mediation with their lender before a foreclosure lawsuit is filed, rather than after.”
Yes our new experiment is called ‘HOPE’. Let’s keep pretending that we can keep house prices. Just heard on the am news that food costs are going up because of weather problems, coffee going up, toys going up this Xmas because the Chinese workers are getting a raise.
My salvation is that everyone kept in a house they cannot afford is just one more not in the rental market and one more who won’t be around in two years to compete with me when I want to buy.
Eh - you are just a bitter renter who secretly wishes they could be living in their own house.
Contact a realtor today!
Never a better time to buy!
The NAR evolution:
1) Buy now or be priced out forever.
2) It’s a great time to buy.
3) It’s never been a better time to buy.
4) Prices are low, rates are low better hurry.
5) Buy now or be priced out forever.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
“Apogee Beach will be about a mile south of Trump Hollywood, the luxury condo Perez built as part of a licensing agreement with Donald Trump. That was one of a handful of projects Perez handed back to lenders amid the housing downturn.”
Somebody please ’splain to ole Palmy how this guy “hands” projects back to lenders and then obtains backing to build another white elephant. Maybe he’s self-financing. If so, Palmy say “Go for it!”
“So, build! What’s stopping construction? Nothing.”
OK, I think I can ’splain this, sort of. When the family still had a little manse in Greenwich, Connecticut, there was a bunch of vacant land across the street, which we assumed was a wetland or greenbelt or whatever. Anyhoo, during the 1990s, up pops a 17 house development, seemingly out of nowhere. The neighborhood got all up in arms, especially since a traffic light had to be put in at the newly created egress/ingress for the development. (And used to shine in the front windows of the Palmster family manse) People were taken by surprise and angrily descended on planning and zoning. Nothing they could do about it, despite all their best efforts. The subdivision has been zoned, platted and approved in the mid 1970s. The owner of the land let it sit there for 20 years and then went ahead and started building. BUT he got all his ducks in a row for when the time was right.
I think that’s the game being played in Florryduh right now.
Same in my neighbourhood - land behind my former house was vacant for years, at the end of a dead end street. Then a couple of years ago the street got extended to join up with another one and new houses went up. People on the former dead end streets were upset but it had been mapped out and approved years before. For months we got to hear (even though we now live farther away) the builder pounding away at rock to excavate the basements. I guess he was too close to existing houses to use dynamite.
I’ve seen an upsurge in houses for sale in my neighborhood, although if recent precedent is followed, the buyers will be custom homebuilders who will proceed to demolish the existing structure in favor of a large, multistory particleboard rectangle, to accommodate buyers who need a lot of space to watch television, overeat, and surf the net.
That Orlando Sentinel piece was absolutely correct. For all the role they play in our political ideologies, regulations here barely impacted development. Almost everything that developers wanted to build got built. And as a consequence we have too many malls and golf courses, and too many empty, ugly houses, and too many people, some of whom were elected to public office, who can’t even imagine a different meal ticket.
Thayer said he was approved for the…
“Making Home Affordable Program”
Another waste of time and money by the goobermint. Notice that “they” have no concern for the folks that played by the rules saved their money and are waiting patiently for an “affordable” home.
“Currently it takes about 600 days in Florida for a foreclosure lawsuit to be processed. In the meantime, the houses are in inventory limbo until they are sold at fire-sale prices and further depress the real estate market, Petrey said.”
Smart FL buyers will sit on their hands for the back of that 600 days of inventory limbo in order to buy at fire-sale prices.
I just did some web research on the Villas Condominiums in New Tampa. Yes although for less than the price of a car you not only get a roof over your head, but you are complexly exempt from Florida’s property tax. However, HOA is about $240. more importantly, the web research discusses extensive water damage. There have been a lot of lawsuits involved. Very poorly constructed. You get what you pay for.
However, HOA is about $240. more importantly, the web research discusses extensive water damage. There have been a lot of lawsuits involved. Very poorly constructed. You get what you pay for.
Sounds like an underwater condo. Literally.
Plus, you have to live in New Tampa, which has more gates than an airport. I can see why that Schenecker woman went loco.
$240 is reasonable considering what exterior insurance costs. Extensive water damage could be quite the problem…
“Some homes are selling for less than the cost of a car.”
Hey, Dave! Those cars are over-priced pieces of crap, too!
Yeah, and you can’t drive your house.
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=186895
Utah declares BoA foreclosures illegal. State AGs could launch lucrative political careers by going after “predatory lenders” in their states, disegarding, of course, the culpability of resident FBs. I think it more likely the State AGs are trying to shake down the banksters for increased political donations.