The Other Side Of The Knife
It’s Friday desk clearing time. NovaStar was part of a crop of new lenders that had sprung up in the 1990s. Promotional memos NovaStar sent to its 16,400 unsupervised mortgage brokers across the country told the tale of easy credit terms. ‘Did You Know NovaStar Offers to Completely Ignore Consumer Credit!’ one screamed. Patricia and Ricardo had bought their three-bedroom home in a middle-class section of southwestern Atlanta in 1983 for $30,000. In 2004, she had a 9 percent adjustable-rate mortgage that she wanted to change to a fixed-rate loan. She received an offer in the mail from NovaStar and called the toll-free number.”
“‘I told them I wanted to come out of the adjustable and they said they would give me the fixed rate if I would accept it at 10 percent,’ Patricia said. ‘I could have stayed where I was but I told them definitely a 30-year fixed rate.’”
“Even the initial monthly housing payment, including taxes and insurance, was barely affordable: $1,215.33. As documented in their loan file, the Jordans’ total monthly net income was only $2,697. Their monthly housing and other debt costs totaled $1,642, so after they paid their debts each month, the Jordans had only $1,055 to live on. Two years after signing up for the loan, its interest rate was set to ratchet up. Only then did Ms. Jordan learn that NovaStar had put her into an adjustable loan, not the fixed rate she had been promised. ‘I got duped,’ she contended.”
“At the end of May 2007, Jorge Sanchez loaded his cousin’s pickup truck and moved his young family from an apartment into a house in Fitchburg. That was six years after Sanchez and his wife, Minerva Abrajan, natives of Puebla, Mexico, arrived in Madison. They’re not citizens, but, as permanent residents who pay U.S. taxes, the UW-Madison janitors obtained a mortgage under a new loan program aimed at extending home ownership to people who previously couldn’t qualify.”
“‘We wanted a house because we had two kids already,’ Sanchez said. ‘We wanted something better for them.’”
“The new program opened a door to home loans to non-citizens, helping usher in a sharp increase in homeownership among local Latinos in the second half of the last decade — shortly before a corresponding increase in foreclosure filings against the same group a few years later.”
“Ellen Bernards, a foreclosure prevention counselor for Greenpath Debt Solutions and co-chair of the Dane County Foreclosure Prevention Task Force, said at least three-quarters of her Latino clients facing foreclosure had taken out ITIN loans and that many, like Sanchez, were issued subprime mortgages with adjustable rates by private lenders.”
“She stressed that many of the ITIN loans failed for the same reasons other mortgage loans failed: the recession, which was especially cruel to Latinos. And they suffered from bad timing — a large group of Latinos for the first time became eligible for home loans just when the subprime loan crisis hit its peak. ‘It was a nuts lending time across the board,’ Bernards said.”
“Sanchez said that even if his wife hadn’t had to quit work for six months the family likely would have lost the house after five years, when the payments could have ballooned. He said he often felt confused by the process and acknowledged he should have done more to understand the loan before he signed. Much has changed for the family, and the more than $30,000 they spent on the house is gone. But their perspective has not.”
“‘We lost our house but we kept our jobs,’ Sanchez said.”
“The office condo deals are getting even better in downtown Wichita. Prices on two bank-owned floors at the Broadway Plaza building were reduced last week to just $59,000 apiece. The fifth and 10th floors of the structure are mostly vacant. They are just two of a handful office condo floors that originally were developed by Minnesota-based Real Development Corp. Most of them were sold to California investors, and many of them subsequently landed in foreclosure. Prices since then have plummeted.”
“‘You have to remember a lot of these had mortgages on them in 2006 of more than $400,000,’ says Royce Jantz, a broker with J.P. Weigand & Sons Inc., who is listing the floors at Broadway Plaza, along with foreclosed floors in the Petroleum Building, Sutton Place and the Orpheum Office Center.”
“The proportion of housing units in which the owners live fell 2 percentage points from 2000 to 2010 in Lucas, Fulton, Ottawa, and Wood counties in Ohio and Monroe and Lenawee counties in Michigan. ‘You’re comparing a low point, then a very high point, and then a low point,’ said Dave Browning, a longtime local real estate observer and principal of Wells Bowen Realty. ‘An argument could be made that the economic conditions in 2000 aren’t all that different than they were in 2010.’”
“‘We saw the first four or five years of the new millennium of good solid productive real estate; the end of 2004 through 2006 was crazy, with people doing things that didn’t make any logical sense, and from 2007 on, we’ve seen the other side of that knife.’”
“The IDI Group Cos. auctioned off more than a tenth of its 242-unit Riverview residential building in Lansdowne on Sunday. Out of the 33 units up for auction, 27 sold at prices as high as $350,000. About a third of the auctioned off condo units, which include one-, two-, and three-bedroom residences, had rock bottom minimum bids starting at $95,000, or a whopping 69 percent of the original asking price. Arlington-based IDI delivered the high-rise in mid-2008 — a devastating point in the local real estate market — with one-bedrooms priced in the high $200,000s to three-bedrooms priced from the mid-$400,000s.”
“IDI teamed up with RCC Inc. of California to originally build 10 high-rise buildings and four low-rise buildings at Leisure World of Virginia. Instead, just four high-rise and three low-rise buildings stand there today.”
“House property values fell in all Australia’s capital cities in April. Sydney’s fell 0.3 per cent to a $667,500 median, the third lowest fall. The city had a 0.6 per cent drop during March. ”The magnitude of the corrections are not extreme, and is not a cause for alarm at this stage,’ a Residex forecaster, John Edwards, said. ‘But it is very unusual to see the total market in a correction phase.”’
“The last time all the capital cities were in a downturn was June 2008, during the global financial crisis. Before that it was June 1990, when Australia was heading into recession. ‘Both times before, the reasons for the downturn were much more obvious,’ Mr Edwards said. ”In a situation like this, given other weak economic indicators, considerable care will need to be exercised by the Reserve Bank in regards to interest rates until the market regains some level of confidence,” Mr Edwards said.”
“A chorus of economists and labor market observers say that the ‘natural’ or ’structural’ rate of unemployment has shifted up, meaning that Americans looking for work should get used to having a harder time finding it. The unemployment rate is currently 9% and could take until 2016 to reach the natural rate.”
“A boom in the construction industry in the 2000s, an expansion of credit and gains in productivity through technology disguised the significant structural changes in the economy. ‘We delayed the pain and papered-over the problem,’ said Diane Swonk, chief economist and senior managing director at Mesirow Financial. ‘The recession washed that away.’”
“Just as busts follow booms, booms are supposed to follow busts. But there has been no boom, not even a boomlet, to light a candle in the gloom of the housing collapse. Many economists thought that a recovery from the real-estate meltdown that started in 2007 would be well on its way by 2011. The unhappiness is understandable. But some extension of this pain would not be a terrible thing in the long run.”
“Negative reinforcement is a principle of behavioral psychology whereby repeated punishment reduces the likelihood that a human or rat will continue doing something. A parade of shocks on the housing front is delivering Americans much negative reinforcement. And they need it. In the recent real estate bubble, consumers who couldn’t afford it desired far grander digs than a simple nest with room for the chicks. They wanted media rooms, wine cellars and hotel-sized kitchens opening onto three-car garages.”
“And they had the federal government cheering them on.”
“Only constant negative reinforcement will change a society that never seems to learn that home ownership is not the low-risk path to wealth and happiness. In the 1920s, Americans gorged on Florida real estate, some of it underwater. The Depression came and – ka-boom! – property values fell like a rock in the Everglades.”
“Then as now, scams and the collusion of government had created a market of glass, leaving taxpayers to pick up the shards. Then as now, a busted housing sector hurt the larger economy. Only it’s worse now.”
“But the Feds are eyeing the beginning of the end for subsidies that help feed real-estate frenzies. In the meantime, let the pounding bad news on housing change American attitudes toward homebuying – and start moving the government out of the business of egging on the worst behavior.”
“Two years after signing up for the loan, its interest rate was set to ratchet up. Only then did Ms. Jordan learn that NovaStar had put her into an adjustable loan, not the fixed rate she had been promised. ‘I got duped,’ she contended.”
A viola player tells his fellow orchestral violist about the mean oboe player who turned one of his tuning pegs, making his viola go out of tune. The other violist wonders why that was so terrible. The first violist’s response: ‘He won’t tell me which peg he turned!’
Like the violist in the joke who couldn’t tell which string was out of tune, this FB couldn’t or didn’t read the contract well enough to discern what kind of loan she had.
In the article it says Mrs. Jordan had a nine-percent adjustable loan she traded in for a ten-percent fixed. Then it turns out the ten-percent fixed she traded for was also an adjustable.
Nine percent, ten percent … fixed or not loans at these rates will eat you alive.
these rates will eat you alive ??
I have had many a real estate loan that was north of 9%….Many…
How about a ten percent loan in our now two percent world? How’s that going to work out?
Lots of 10% loans being made…Just not to mom & pop home owner although there are some of those also…
Bridge loans see 12% easily. Private loans.
Rates were higher than this in the 80’s, but you could still only borrow what you could afford to repay and credit was tight. As a consequence house prices were very low.
IMO give me 10% interest and a low home price any day over 4% and a high price.
Of course 10% and a very high price?
I can remember paying 19% interest on my first car loan in 1980.
Nice to see you posting….
“Of course 10% and a very high price?”
10% rates and very high prices are pretty much mutually exclusive, as high interest rates tend to kill off demand fairly quickly.
Thanks scdave.
Good to see the familiars posting
That is what was so damaging about the bubble. Low rates and extreme prices.
“Only then did Mrs. Jordan learn that NovaStar had put her into and adjustable loan…”
Only then did she learn. She didn’t learn when she signed the papers, she only learned when her loan rate was adjusted.
Truly, no FB dollar shall be allowed to escape.
“Like the violist in the joke who couldn’t tell which string was out of tune, this FB couldn’t or didn’t read the contract well enough to discern what kind of loan she had.”
I’m guessing: couldn’t. Of course that’s what lawyers are for. Spending $100 would have saved her a lot of grief.
The thing is that generation was trained to trust “bankers”.
” Patricia and Ricardo had bought their three-bedroom home in a middle-class section of southwestern Atlanta in 1983 for $30,000. ”
Even at 9%, why couldn’t they afford their current mortgage? Or were they serial refi’ers, and that was left out of the story?
“Even the initial monthly housing payment, including taxes and insurance, was barely affordable: $1,215.33.”
At 10% that about 140K of principle. I guess no one pays off the mortgage anymore these days. I wonder if Ricardo has a shiny F-350 in the driveway?
I’m guessing that most folks who are too ignorant to know how to read a contract don’t have much contact with lawyers.
Except for court-appointed ones :-).
I’m sick of hearing about people who are losing their houses they bought in the 80’s or earlier. Those houses should be paid off. They aren’t losing them because the banks are evil (although they mostly are), they’re losing them because they are terrible about managing their budgets and spent themselves into the poorhouse.
They’re losing them because they followed Alan Greenspan’s advice to tap into their home equity wealth gains through the financially-innovative magic of the home equity ATM machine.
He wasn’t the only one. Lereah once derided as unsophisticated those who didn’t do this, comparing them to people who kept money at home in their mattresses. Here is the quote:
“If you paid your mortgage off, it means you probably did not manage your funds efficiently over the years,” said David Lereah, chief economist of the National Association of Realtors and author of “Are You Missing the Real Estate Boom?” “It’s as if you had 500,000 dollar bills stuffed in your mattress.”
You just pissed me off with that old quote Snake.
Lereah….. the corrupt
Lereah…… the liar
Lereah…. the larcenous
Lereah….. the dishonest
“It’s as if you had 500,000 dollar bills stuffed in your mattress.”
That would just be terrible.
Hey, last year the Israeli woman who bought her mum a new mattress didn’t consider the million dollars mums had in it…
Surprise! I threw your million dollars to the garbage!
Cheers
(the mattress wasn’t found yet)
arit
“If you paid your mortgage off, it means you probably did not manage your funds efficiently over the years,”
Though I own no falling knife RE (other than a share of what is owned by the REIT into which I dribble funds), I still have quite a bit of money parked under the mattress; other money is parked in the value of (paid-off) expensive musical instruments.
By contrast, I wonder how many of my fellow Californians still have home equity available to tap into, per the guidance of David Lereah and Alan Greenspan? I’m guessing the number doing it these days is vanishingly small.
“They’re losing them because they followed Alan Greenspan’s advice to tap into their home equity wealth gains through the financially-innovative magic of the home equity ATM machine.”
They’re losing them, and that is a tragedy. But they’re losing them because they have no code. They’re losing them because they have no honor…and God is watching.
sfbubblebuyer
I agree. Those folks are probably in their early 50’s or older by now, and should have been thinking about their elderly years during the bubble borrowing orgy. Even if their homes were not paid off, they should have been close. Anyone who tapped into their future roof over their heads, deserves to be homeless. Only medical expenses or job loss should have been a derailment. (I do give people some slack…chit happens).
Two years after signing up for the loan, its interest rate was set to ratchet up. Only then did Ms. Jordan learn that NovaStar had put her into an adjustable loan, not the fixed rate she had been promised. ‘I got duped,’ she contended.”
Does no on read contracts anymore?
Especailly ones that put you in debt for 30 years…???
You forget the big sales pitch back then.
Get in now while you still can. In a couple of years when the loan converts you will have built up enough equity to take a nice vacation and refinance…
I heard that from realtors and loan people all over although we never bit…
In all fairness, mortgage contracts aren’t the easiest thing for most people to read. They tend to be heavily laden with legal gobbledygook. That makes for rather challenging reading material, even for attorneys.
So, in the interest of making such contracts easier to understand, check out the “Know Before You Owe” project. IMHO, it’s a step in the right direction.
A simple two-page document that states clearly, in language everyone can understand, the terms and conditions of your mortgage? Who would oppose such an obviously good and rational idea?
Oh, surprise, surprise, The Grand Old Plutocrat party would.
If she’s paying $1200 a month at 9%, that’s a $150K mortgage.
Jordan cashed out for at least $150K.
Ms. Jordan, what did you do with the money???
“Just as busts follow booms, booms are supposed to follow busts. But there has been no boom, not even a boomlet, to light a candle in the gloom of the housing collapse. Many economists thought that a recovery from the real-estate meltdown that started in 2007 would be well on its way by 2011.”
I expect the same economists to continue making their stopped-clock predictions for a real estate bottom by ‘the end of next year’ for at least another five years (that would be through 2016) before they finally shut their pie holes out of embarrassment.
“The unhappiness is understandable. But some extension of this pain would not be a terrible thing in the long run.”
The top-down intervention which was instituted in a futile attempt to mitigate the real estate bust has only served to inadvertently extend the pain.
These economists are our friends in that they extend hope to the FBs and this hope helps drain every last dollar from the FBs.
The bottom will be reached when all the hope is gone and all the FB money is gone and all the sellers have sold. In the meantime, for the rest of us, it’s cash and popcorn.
“Many economists thought that a recovery from the real-estate meltdown that started in 2007 would be well on its way by 2011.”
And there are STILL many of the sheeple who JUST. DON’T. GET IT. Gah! In the past couple of days, the Palmster has had the dubious privilege of speaking with folks who think the market is coming back in a couple of years or so and who are trumpeting the blather that now is a great time to buy, they can’t believe the deals. One of them is even a general contractor, you’d think he’d know better.
Here’s how I throw some big time cold water on the steaming pile of puckey: JOBS! I gently and patiently explain that there will be NO recovery until there are good paying jobs to support housing. I explain that people have to have JOBS to make house payments, and McDonalds/WalMart/Big Box store jobs don’t have that kind of pay rate. And then I get real cheerful with a big sh*t eating grin and say “But you’ll know the market is coming back when you see people getting jobs where they are making good money!”
Things get real quiet after that.
Palmster, you’re using the same approach as I have here in Tucson. Like you, I’ve been hearing a lot of that “Better buy now! House prices are about to go up!” rhetoric.
And then I roll out my big guns:
1. In an economy with high unemployment and slow job growth, there’s no underlying demand that would drive prices higher.
2. If we already have a glut of houses on the market, plus a huge shadow inventory, what would increase the price? Increasing supply tends to drive prices down.
3. Who told you that house prices are about to go up? A real estate agent? They’re nothing more than commissioned salespeople. They’ll tell you whatever they can so that they can keep those commission checks coming.
“1. In an economy with high unemployment and slow job growth, there’s no underlying demand that would drive prices higher.”
What about the Asian, Canadian, Australian and European investors armed with all-cash offers?
az slim
I really wish you would run for vice-president on a Ron Paul ticket.
PS. I miss Olygal! (R.I.P)
Best wet blanket: “If it’s such a good time to buy, then buy a house and I’ll rent it from you.”
LOL
‘Did You Know NovaStar Offers to Completely Ignore Consumer Credit!’
There’s a great business model. Give them enough rope to hang themselves.
By throwing themselves off a cliff with the other end of the rope tied to someone else.
Until the music stops, the someone else figures out what is going on, and you are left with the other end of the rope yourself.
“By throwing themselves off a cliff with the other end of the rope tied to someone else.”
Hwy50: ‘Rope around the throat…’
“‘We wanted a house because we had two kids already,’ Sanchez said. ‘We wanted something better for them.’”
Yes, we can! (want in one hand, etc.)
“She stressed that many of the ITIN loans failed for the same reasons other mortgage loans failed: the recession, which was especially cruel to Latinos”
Why do they have an ITIN as opposed to an SS#? I can think of only one answer: The Sanchez’s are here illegally (even though they claim to be “permanent residents”). If they have a green card they would have an SS#.
The definition of ITIN:
“An ITIN is a tax processing number issued by the IRS to foreign nationals and others who have federal tax reporting or filing requirements and do not qualify for Social Security numbers.”
So the term “undocumented” isn’t just a euphemism, it’s actually objectively incorrect, huh? They may be documented after all. Didn’t know that.
In the end, at least in this case, it’s just another means for sucking more poor unaware souls into our blood-sucking financial vortex.
“The Sanchez’s are here illegally (even though they claim to be “permanent residents”).”
I was thinking the same thing myself. The whole story stinks like 10 day old fish. And that “job” he’s holding down should go to an American, I’m sure there are plenty where he lives who could use it. Note to the Sanchezes: stop effing. If you can’t feed ‘em, don’t breed ‘em.
Well, the rule of law has been pretty well busted out in the US, both at the top and bottom of the scale, squeezing the middle.
Plus 1,000, Palmster!
As for that argument that these, ahem, permanent residents, are taking jobs that Americans just won’t do, horse-hockey. I’ll bet we’ve all known people who would be thrilled to take even the most menial of jobs. Why? Because they pay money, that’s why.
There is dignity in work. And we have millions of unemployed Americans who need work. Let’s take care of our fellow countrymen and women first.
“…squeezing the middle.”
Middle-class Americans = law-abiding dupes (I know — I’m one of them!)
“even though they claim to be “permanent residents”
Lol, Colorado! Most likely they ARE permanent residents, whether legal or illegal, if you get my drift.
Yup, as long as you have no intention of going home, you’re “permanent”.
Work visas? We don’t need no stinkin’ work visas!
“No intention of going home” and the government has “no plans to kick your azz out”
Theoretically they are temporary residents
They are defacto permanant residents.
“She stressed that many of the ITIN loans failed for the same reasons other mortgage loans failed: the recession, which was especially cruel to Latinos.
What about women? And blacks? And gay-save-the-whales-eat-no-red-meat persons?
I have trouble keeping up with the recession picking certain ethnic groups out at random…
I agree, especially when said group is heavily populated with illegal residents.
“And gay-save-the-whales-eat-no-red-meat persons?”
Is that the full-blown description of what LGTB stands for?
Vote Mark Foley / Larry Craig GOP “family values” in 2012, it’s as All-American as mom, baseball, apple pie, male escorts and crystal meth
Mark Foley – resigned in disgrace September 29th, 2006
Larry Craig - resigned in disgrace September 2nd, 2007
Bill “what is the meaning of the word is” Clinton – still a hero of the left
Barney “give my gay lover an executive job in the government program I have oversight” Frank - still a hero of the left
I think I see your point.
“give my gay lover…” a Fannie position (ahem!)…
Hey 2banana- What would Freud say about your moniker? Are you one of those right-wingers with a ‘wide stance’ on family values?
That is what started this whole mess right? Charges banks were redlining and being racist…
The whole idea that banks care about race rather than credit worthiness is completely specious. If a people of color with good credit and bank were systematically redlined by lenders A, B, C, D and E, then lender F could make a killing by targeting credit at the credit-worthy people of color. The free market can do this without any help from Uncle Sam.
“dropped far more than expected”
Everyone take a shot of JD!
So they were only 11% off—what’s the big deal?
———————————-
Pending Home Sales Plunge 12% to Seven-Month Low
Thomson/Reuters | 27 May 2011
Pending sales of existing U.S. homes dropped far more than expected in April to touch a seven-month low, a trade group said on Friday, dealing a blow to hopes of a recovery in the housing market.
…
Economists polled by Reuters had expected pending home sales to fall 1.0 percent.
and the market goes up.
If it’s this bad, then a bottom must be at hand.
“and start moving the government out of the business of egging on the worst behavior.”
DREAM ON!
I saw Steven Tyler perform that song on American Idol a couple of nights ago. What an amazing performer! The dude is 110% committed.
Pending Home Sales Plunge 12% to Seven-Month Low
Thomson/Reuters ^ | 27 May 2011
Pending sales of existing U.S. homes dropped far more than expected in April to touch a seven-month low, a trade group said on Friday, dealing a blow to hopes of a recovery in the housing market.
…
Economists polled by Reuters had expected pending home sales to fall 1.0 percent.
“Economists polled by Reuters had expected pending home sales to fall 1.0 percent.”
Only 1100 percent off the mark:
[(12% - 1%) / 1% ] * 100 = 1100%
“‘We saw the first four or five years of the new millennium of good solid productive real estate; the end of 2004 through 2006 was crazy, with people doing things that didn’t make any logical sense, and from 2007 on, we’ve seen the other side of that knife.’”
This guy is talking about Toledo Ohio. Toledo’s economic fortunes rise and fall with Detroit’s. Toledo is primarily an auto industry city, with Jeep headquartered there.
Let’s see….
early 2000s… Jeep builds a $1b new assembly plant in Toledo for its upcoming Jeep Liberty. (there are also existing auto parts suppliers in town, and a major Chrysler or GM machining division)
early 200s - 2006: Americans love their Jeeps and 4wd vehicles. Sales of Liberty are strong. However, Jeep only mans the factory for 2 shifts a day, requiring the employees to work OT to meet demand. OT means the workers are making a LOT of extra money.
2007: 4wd craze ends quickly, and with it all the OT of the employees. Lots of houses and toys purchased on the assumption that OT would continue forever must now be quickly liquidated.
No wonder Toledo had a housing crash in 2007. Basically, the city has had a stagnate population for 20 years, and only avoids annual declines during auto-boom years.
Better to give up some OT than get the layoff notice.
Jeep seems to have run their factory in a pretty smart way.
Back in the day.
You lived off your 40 hours.
OT was for savings and fun.
If the OT went away - you still could live.
Ben, CarrieAnn, SanFranciscoBayAreaGal, alpha, Hwy, et al,
I’ve had six posts to you either deleted or removed from the Bits Bucket today by our guest moderator, all of which were thoughtful, fair, and relevant to the conversation at hand. This board is not well-served when its conscientious posters are harassed for speaking out in favor of civil discourse and ethical editorial standards.
We’ve lost some informative, entertaining, and thought-provoking writers over the years because of this very thing, Alad, Joey, and NoSingleOne among them. When the conversation degenerates into braggadocio and petty ad hominem attacks, all our hard work and commitment to this blog and its ideals are debased — and we are all the poorer for it.
I’m posting here in the hope that my words will not again be censored on the whim of one disturbed individual who seemingly cannot resist the urge to self-aggrandize at the expense of other readers. This community deserves so much better.
Sincerely.
“‘We wanted a house because we had two kids already,’ Sanchez said. ‘We wanted something better for them.’”
Foreclosure is better because…?!
P.S. Stopped by a friend’s house earlier to drop off some music for a gig. He and his wife were foreclosed by BoA last year — more accurately, they returned from an out-of-town trip to discover a notice on the front door that their home (with defaulted mortgage) would soon be auctioned. I guess the BoA spies waited until they left town for a few days to post notice of auction on the front door?
Happy ending: I got the tour of the new rental home; it’s bigger than the previous home they ‘owned,’ on which they were throwing away money (on a Countryfried liar loan), rents for less than their old mortgage payment, and has a built-in private backyard pool. Renting some times beats owning by a long shot!