Full Recovery Is A Misnomer
It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “Bob and Julie Sistik’s American dream is now in boxes after choosing to do what was once unthinkable - walking away from their mortgage. They paid $700,000 for their house in Miami in 2005 - a stretch for a firefighter and a secretary - but in the old superheated housing market, they qualified, CBS News correspondent Jim Axelrod reports. They could afford the big mortgage for a few years until Bob got hurt on the job and was out of work. By the time they tried to sell, the house was worth less than half what they’d paid for it.”
“‘I’ve totally failed,’ Bob said. ‘It’s really difficult to not do what I said I was going to do.’”
“Victoria Wilkinson hasn’t paid her mortgage for nearly two years since her husband walked out. Because of the paperwork backlog, it could take the bank three years to foreclose. Asked how she feels about people who say what she’s doing is immoral, Wilkinson says: ‘It’s not. I wanna do the right thing. But I also need to take care of myself and my son.’”
“The number of Peninsula-area properties dealt foreclosure filings in May declined 16 percent compared to May 2010, though the drop may portend an unsettling trend on the horizon. In Hampton Roads, the foreclosure backlog will continue to weigh down the market into 2012, said Perry Pilgrim, principal broker for Abbitt Realty.”
“‘There is a backlog that is building of foreclosures that have not been released onto the market,’ he said. ‘A lot of us in the real estate business are concerned that this potential inventory of foreclosure properties that are not on the market now, but will come onto the market, will continue to hold values down.’”
“Home foreclosure filings in New Jersey have dropped dramatically, according to the latest figures released by both the New Jersey Judiciary and Realty Trac. That’s the good news. The bad news is that the good news may be short-lived. Burlington County Deputy Freeholder Director Chris Brown said there is a ‘backlog of filings. … Once the judicial motion is lifted, the number will surge.’”
“Brown, who is CEO of Re/Max Connections Real Estate with offices in South Jersey, said 40 percent of people with home-equity loans nationwide have properties worth less than the loans based on their value. He added that there is a ’shadow inventory’ of short sales and properties facing foreclosure affecting the real estate market.”
“Thanks to a shadowy corporate mortgage recording system, millions of Californians have no idea who owns their home loans. As we suffer through this recession triggered by reckless subprime lending and Wall Street speculation, our recovery is being held back in part because people are struggling with foreclosures and underwater home values — exacerbated by a lack of mortgage transparency.”
“The mess created by Wall Street is causing wrongful foreclosures and wreaking havoc. We must continue to fight these wealthy, powerful lobbies so that the long road to recovery in our housing markets and communities can begin. We cannot let Sacramento forget it was financial institutions that fueled the housing bubble, crashed the stock market, and sent shockwaves throughout the economy with their reckless practices.”
“A Tucson mayoral candidate from a fringe political party has seized dozens of foreclosed homes in metro Phoenix, changing the locks, kicking out real-estate agents and posting ‘Do Not Trespass’ signs. Marshall Home, who claims many foreclosures are illegal, has filed documents in the past two weeks with the Maricopa County Recorder’s Office showing he has supposedly taken ownership of at least 21 homes belonging to government-owned mortgage giant Fannie Mae. But none of the documents shows any money has changed hands, and Fannie Mae says it has not sold the houses.”
“‘Lenders are gangsters, and they can’t prove they own these homes. So they have no right to foreclose,’ said the 80-year-old self-professed billionaire from his real-estate and political office in Tucson. ‘I plan to continue to take homes from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. I would buy them, but those groups can’t produce the notes showing they are the rightful owners to sell or foreclose on them.’”
“Home is tapping into a growing sentiment among homeowners angry with lenders who won’t work with them on loan modifications. ‘I haven’t been contacted by either entity nor has either one done anything to stop me,’ Home said. ‘I look forward to a call from one of them so I can explain why I am legally in the right to take over taxpayer-owned homes.’”
“Lane County foreclosures fell by 25 percent in May compared with April and were 20 percent below a year ago, according to RealtyTrac. Banks wait the full six months allowed under Oregon law to foreclose on delinquent homeowners, data from ForeclosureRadar shows. Banks finally sell the houses only when — if they didn’t act — they’d have to cancel the sale and start the foreclosure process from the beginning, company CEO Sean O’Toole said.”
“The national average for days to foreclosure is 294 — far longer than before the housing bubble and crash of recent years, he said. Banks could foreclose at a faster clip, O’Toole said. But banks don’t hurry up because it would be disastrous for the banking system and the economy.”
“‘We created $4 trillion in excess debt that we really can’t afford as a nation. So far, we’ve only dealt with a half a trillion,’ he said. ‘If bank policies were to change to make short sales easier or to more aggressively foreclose or do anything other than to drag this out, the losses would be so substantial we’d have a second banking crisis.’”
“Yesterday morning, my colleague (S.C. | HONG KONG) sent around an interesting piece of analysis from GaveKal capital, which read in part: We were once told by a client that ‘when the US government decides to sell, no price is cheap enough.’… If the above is true, then there must be some fortunes to be made in US housing today, for not only is housing trading at very attractive levels against incomes and ability to service a mortgage, but the US government, through its GSEs, is also proving to be a very willing seller.”
“Indeed, in 1Q11 the GSEs collectively sold 110,000 foreclosed homes, representing 10% of total housing sales. This liquidation of foreclosed homes is likely to increase in the coming months, as more foreclosure processes are completed. There are already 600,000-900,000 foreclosed homes on the books of financial institutions (285,000 of these with the GSEs), and a further 2mn+ properties in the foreclosure pipeline (not to mention another 2mn of >90-day-delinquent mortgages for which the foreclosure process has not started).”
“Thus, if foreclosures continue at the same pace as in the first quarter, then the GSEs will own approximately 600,000 properties by the end of the year, with a book value of $95bn and all indications are that the GSEs plan to continue selling these properties onto an already-bloated market (thereby pushing prices down and curtailing the nascent recovery).”
“This generated an interesting email conversation…S.C.: Do people stop repaying their mortgage just because they are in negative equity? I understand why they ’should’—with a non-recourse mortgage, you can walk away from a debt worth X, for the loss of an asset worth less than X. But in practice don’t people keep paying their mortgage as long as their income is sufficient, regardless of what has happened to their balance-sheet?”
“If so, then I’m with [G.I.]—best cure for low prices is low prices. The excess supply is real. Might as well let prices reflect that. House prices may undershoot, but I don’t think this undershooting will produce a fresh round of defaults immediately–because people keep paying their mortgage as long as they can. By the time they are ready to default in disgust, the price may well have recovered to its equilibrium, resolving their negative equity problem.”
“It’s odd that buyers are smart enough to see the overhang and act accordingly (by waiting to buy), but private sellers aren’t. To put it another way, why isn’t the overhang already priced into the market?”
“The great American dream has been a nightmare of late, especially when it involves foreclosure. Some industry analysts say housing is in a downward spiral, not only because so many people are blocked from the market - being unemployed, in foreclosure or trapped in homes that are worth less than the mortgage - but also even many who are solvent are opting out.”
“Another somewhat related trend is that more and more of us are upside-down on second mortgages, according to the Home Buying Institute. Is this reason to put the idea of homeownership to sleep? Not at all.”
“A study this past month by the Pew Research Center states 75 percent of Americans see owning a home as the best long-term investment they can make. Further, the study - coupled with Census data - shows owning a home remains a goal of young people with jobs. Problem: Not enough people have the jobs or resources that will make this happen.”
“The local housing market is recovering, as evidenced by sales data we publish each Friday in the Real Estate section of the Courier. Foreclosures represented about 35 percent of existing home transactions in May, compared with 36 percent in April, 38 percent in March and 43 percent in January.”
‘How long the trend may last is anybody’s guess. ‘Full recovery is a misnomer,’ the Home Buying Institute stated. ‘The market may never again look like it did five years ago.’”
“We’re not sure that’s a bad thing, either.”
It’s been a fun week! My thanks to those who support this blog. Please check back this weekend for news, your market observations and topics.
“They paid $700,000 for their house in Miami in 2005 - a stretch for a firefighter and a secretary - but in the old superheated housing market, they qualified, CBS News correspondent Jim Axelrod reports”
I saw that story; Axelrod asked them why in the world did they buy a $700,000.00 house and fireman’s response was “Well, we could afford it” Think about it; a fireman and a secretary. Now they are moving in with “family” in North Carolina. Maybe Axelrod should have interviewed the Realt-whore who set up this debacle.
Stunning. All aspects is just stunning. $700k for a house????? Is it Buckingham Palace? In Miami, FL no less!!!!!
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
BTW, RAL, I’ve got a weekend topic for you on that thread.
Go to the link and run the video. Just another one of the nondescript McMansions which have overrun this state. And we’re still building them, because we can’t do any better.
Yet another cargo cult…just build McMansions and money will fall from the sky.
I don’t buy their story.
Firefighter gets hurt on the job and looses his job?
yes he ought to be getting some pretty good work comp or disability. Maybe not enough for 700k mortgage though.
I bet he lost his OT pay.
+1 Steve J.
Average firefighter salary by state: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Fire_Fighter/Salary/by_State
Florida: $29,506 - $70,467. Overtime would, what, double that? Add a secretary’s $50K salary, and conceivably they could bring in $200K a year. Almost enough for the $700K house. But can a firefighter really depend on doing that much overtime, every year, for 30 years?
And do secretaries/admins really get 50K?
Maybe on the coasts. Not in flyover. Try between $8-12/hour
Rookie, first-year fireman in mid-California. Two years of “fire science” in junior college. 126 THOUSAND dollars.
Child was 19 years old.
‘Nuf said.
There are a plethera of firefighters makeing $200,000+ in rust belt cities of the NE…(not including their pension costs which can average almost $90,000/year)
It happens. Which is why buying a $700K house was incredibly stupid for the fireman and the secretary, and for the strawberry picker too while we’re on the subject.
“Firefighter gets hurt on the job and looses his job?”
Many public safety jobs are also public trust positions, so a bankruptcy could doom his career. The disability filing might have been a desperate act of retribution.
Was out apartment shopping yesterday afternoon.
One of the managers I ran into was an older lady, a former realtor. Of course, the topic of houses came up.
Said one of the things she found most frustrating was how mortgage brokers/banksters kept conning the first time/20 somethings buyers into bigger mortgages than they could afford.
Sure, they could “afford” it……..if both incomes were counted, half the family income or better was paying the mortgage, everybody maxed out on overtime for 30 years, etc.
Heard a new twist on the mortgage app. fraud front……..say the occupation of the applicant was “firefighter”.
They would put in the annual salary of NYC, SF, or LA firefighters as the “yearly salary”, even if he was a part-time firefighter from some County Department out here in BFE.
He could never afford it, he just qualified for a loan.
Exactly SaladSD. Like all the rest of these dopes belaboring the fact that they’re “losing their ‘home’”.
WTF did they think was going to happen?
Maybe Axelrod should have interviewed the Realt-whore who set up this debacle.
Suzanne’s research had some flaws, evidently.
“‘I’ve totally failed,’ Bob said. ‘It’s really difficult to not do what I said I was going to do.’”
Seems from my vantage point was overestimating the ease of repaying a $700K loan off a blue collar income stream. I know high-paid attorneys in SD who are sweating bullets over their loans in that price range during a period of falling knife collateral.
from my vantage point the failure was
“A study this past month by the Pew Research Center states 75 percent of Americans see owning a home as the best long-term investment they can make.”
This bubble is dragging out far longer than I expected, as evidenced by the horde of clueless Americans who somehow missed the news that plummeting home prices have sunk their household balance sheets.
“the best long-term investment they can make”
Do not underestimate the in-ability of americans to make long-term investments on their own.
Don’t underestimate the stupidity of the American public. This is the same bunch that bitched about TARP but then voted for its two most ardent champions, Obama and McCain.
“Don’t underestimate the stupidity of the American public. This is the same bunch that bitched about TARP but then voted for its two most ardent champions, Obama and McCain.”
Was there anybody else to vote for? Here in NC those were the only two on the ballot, given that is next to impossible for a third-party candidate to be placed on the ballot.
Over a long enough period of time, (say, 150 years at this point), this could be true.
Like these McMansions are still going to exist 150 years from now?
No history lessons!
I don’t think that owning a paid-off house is necessarily a bad investment. Having a mortgage on a house is questionable. Having a ARM on an overpriced underwater stucco monster in the exurbs is not so great. It’s really a matter of degree.
Eggman
We’re paying cash for a simple one-story average size final home. You’re right. A paid off home in your advanced years (I use to think that was 40+ LOL) is smart planning.
“A paid off home in your advanced years (I use to think that was 40+ LOL) is smart planning.”
I used to think that our home was paid off, but today I wrote a check for $600 for property taxes.
They paid $700,000 for their house in Miami in 2005 - a stretch for a firefighter and a secretary
A stretch for for about 95% of the workforce in this country.
I’d really like to have seen how these people were convinced that a $800K mortgage was “do-able”.
Whoever can do this, needs to transfer his skill set into seminars on how to talk women into jumping into the sack with you.
Good God, can’t anyone do math around here anymore??????
Whoever can do this, needs to transfer his skill set into seminars on how to talk women into jumping into the sack with you.
Are you saying that guy who wrote “The Game” or whatever it was used to be in RE? If not, he should have been :-).
‘I’d really like to have seen how these people were convinced that a $800K mortgage was “do-able”.’
Say they bought at $800K, and say that real estate went up by 23% a year for the next ten years, which is what the median LA-area home owner assumed would happen over the next ten years, circa 2003. Then if they bought in, say, 2005, then by 2015 their home would have been ‘worth’ 1.23^10*$800K = $6,340,000 or so. That would have been enough to repay the loan, and have $5,540,000 left over in ‘play money.’
Does that explanation qualify me for a roll in the sack with a woman of my choice?
“Good God, can’t anyone do math around here anymore??????”
Short answer? No.
Ya don’t need no math to sign on the dotted line.
But we are all winners. My school district said so.
Count yourself as lucky that your district placed such a high priority on protecting your self esteem.
“it could take the bank three years to foreclose”
Talked to a friend/customer in Michigan yesterday. He put a big addition on his house of 25 years in 2006 and is now serioulsy underwater. He says he is going to walk away. His two kids are in their early 20s and getting ready to leave home, time to downsize. He thinks there is an IRS holiday on 1099s until the end of 2012 and wants to get in under that. LOL, if it takes the bank until 2014 to process the paperwork.
People don’t plan ahead very far.
What inning are we in now? Bottom of the third maybe?
“getting ready to leave home”
He may want to put off the downsizing until he’s sure his kids have stable jobs.
That… could take a while.
How I’d love to see Michigan-like economics play out in coastal California.
“Bottom of the third maybe?”
Thanks to extend-and-pretend, at the end of the day we may be counting the duration of this housing bust in decades, similarly to the Japanese.
“The study - coupled with Census data - shows owning a home remains a goal of young people with jobs. Problem: Not enough people have the jobs or resources that will make this happen.”
Pehaps if the price were half, those couples which not have one job instead of two, for less money adjusted for inflation than prior generations earned, could afford to buy.
Whether home ownership is good depends on the price and what you get for it.
But less cash-strapped American households would make tougher marks for financial industry parasites.
“It’s odd that buyers are smart enough to see the overhang and act accordingly (by waiting to buy), but private sellers aren’t. :
HAhahaha, funny dat. Crouching Sellers - Hidden HELOCS!
“It’s odd that buyers are smart enough to see the overhang and act accordingly (by waiting to buy), but private sellers aren’t. To put it another way, why isn’t the overhang already priced into the market?”
I don’t suppose it could have something to do with the huge shadow inventory that lenders are withholding from the market?
The priced in idiom is always as dumb as it gets
“I look forward to a call from one of them so I can explain why I am legally in the right to take over taxpayer-owned homes.”
me too.
WTF?
I think he’s making the point that, with the MERS/securitization fiasco, he has as much right to claim these houses as the bank does.
The bank won’t have a problem in court, as long as their documentation is good/legal.
Oooopps…….
Take it from a Tucsonan: This guy (Marshall Home) is a real whack-job.
Sounds entertaining!
Slim here. Got an update from today’s fishwrap:
Home quits mayor’s race; Rothschild faces no primary
Excerpt from the story:
“[Pima County Superior Court] Judge R. Douglas Holt rebuked Home several times during both hearings, saying he was not going to allow ‘political tirades,’ and noted he was using the courtroom as an arena for conspiracy theories.”
To which I say:
I know from personal experience that Superior Court judges have a zero tolerance policy for nonsense. So, I can see where Judge Holt is coming from.
the “prestige” of home-ownership has taken some serious hits. I was at a gathering the other night (of course housing comes up in conversation) and a couple said they bought here in MA in 2005. One of the guys in the group, without hesitation says “Ouch, that’s too bad.” Awkward moment for the group; I had to hold back my laughter until later…
“MA in 2005″
Those were the days when a smug troll who called himself Beaconst (obviously a reference to the street where MIT is located) used to lecture us HBB posters on how wrong we were to be so pessimistic about the housing outlook.
I would love to hear what the likes of Beaconst think about how it all turned out. Too bad there isn’t an easy way to distill trolls’ current thinking, without providing license for them to once again overrun the HBB with their cockamamie perspectives.
Asked how she feels about people who say what she’s doing is immoral, Wilkinson says: ‘It’s not. I wanna do the right thing. But I also need to take care of myself and my son.’”
Translation: I want to do the right thing as long as there’s no cost for doing so. What a fine example of moral relativism and rationalizing away deadbeat behavior for your son to emulate.
Wilkinson’s son 40 years from now: “I wanna do the right thing. But taking care of mom now that medicare and social security are broke is just too much of a burden. Go ahead and euthanize her.”
What a fine example of moral relativism and rationalizing away deadbeat behavior for your son to emulate.
Attribution: F. Nietzsche
“A Tucson mayoral candidate from a fringe political party has seized dozens of foreclosed homes in metro Phoenix, changing the locks, kicking out real-estate agents and posting ‘Do Not Trespass’ signs. Marshall Home, who claims many foreclosures are illegal, has filed documents in the past two weeks with the Maricopa County Recorder’s Office showing he has supposedly taken ownership of at least 21 homes belonging to government-owned mortgage giant Fannie Mae. But none of the documents shows any money has changed hands, and Fannie Mae says it has not sold the houses.”
Awesome. Totally awesome.
“Fannie Mae says it has not sold the houses.”
How can you sell it unless you own it?
Classic, prime housing thread.
Too bad so many People around me Still refuse to listen.
Some People prefer to learn the hard way I guess.