The Housing Bubble

Exactly. Even the jobs that can’t be moved are in jeopardy if the other jobs go away. If the host dies, then it’s either move or die too.

But our own best interests are entwined with the interests of those around us.

I would absolutely hate to be the one successful person in a community of unsuccessful people. IMHO, one wouldn’t be alive or well-off for very long in such circumstances.

“But our best interests are entwined with the interests of those around us.”

This is true, but the interests of those who surround me is something that I cannot change, and trust me, I have tried.

When those who surround me tell me that to pay off my house free-and-clear is foolish because all that equity I have in the house is going to waste then I can either verbally fight with them over the issue or I can go my own way.

Fighting with them didn’t work so I was left with going my own way.

And then there is the issue - right here on this message board - of the worthlessness of cash, that hyperinflation is at hand.

Take a look around you and see for yourself it this is true.

Can it be true if wages are falling, if hours are being cut, if benifits are being snatched away? Can it be true if good paying jobs such as those at Xerox are going to India?

Of course it’s true. We’ve had hyperinflation since 2003. Except this time, corporations didn’t respond to price inflation by offering wage inflation to fill the gap in revenue. They responded to price inflation by outsourcing their expenses and filling their gap in revenue with debt and bought-off tax breaks.

Hyperinflation since 2003? OK, the housing bubble inflated house prices, but that popped in 2006. The years 2007-2009 saw little inflation at all, certainly not hyperinflation.

Bill in Carolina-

I think Oxide means hyper-growth in the money supply when he says hyperinflation since 2003. Oxide- is that what you meant?

I’m thinking food prices, gas prices, college prices, car prices, clothing prices, health insurance premiums, and rent. The inflation was hidden by our credit cards, hidden in smaller sizes* or less quality for the same price, and by our plumb not noticing it because times were good.

—————
*Like that 13.5 oz box of “pound” pasta. Or the 13 oz pound of coffee, the 5 oz can of tuna. Fast food too. I once went to Cosi for lunch, and I swear they cut their sandwich bread smaller. Also at Cosi, more and more items are “signature,” which means they are excluded from their combo deals. Ditto for Subway. Just a couple years ago, all their footlong subs were $5, now it’s just a few. The rest are “premium,” i.e. not $5.

Hot dogs are the new KC Strip.

take home pay (income) = Deflation. Expenses= inflation. gas to dollar ratio keeps increasing. Winners—-collectors of govt largesse. Losers—-payers of govt largesse.

The inflation was created by our borrowing not the otherway around.
The inflation was offset by wage slaves producing our goods in China and by technology. There wasn’t massive car price inflation or clothing inflation. There was a time when car makers were fighting to give you lower prices and more credit. The reason of course is that they were buying more of their parts from wage slave countries and technology was increasing productivity.

My view
1. Elite wanted wealth and political power accumulated by US middle class.
2. Laws and trade policy changed.
3. Jobs outsourced CEO’s and stockholders pocketed the increased profits.
4. To prevent deflation from this and technology and to prevent the anger of loosing unemployment interest rates were dropped. This created the bubble economy of builders, realtors, lenders, retailers, service providers, colleges etc. Hiding the unemployment that would normally go along with outsourcing of jobs and slanted trade policy.

Most of the “money printing” has just gone to back fill the hole caused by disappearing debt. Using the Shadowstats M3 measure, the money supply has basically been flat since the money printing started in 2008. The real inflation occurred prior to 2008.

And yes, I realize M3 includes debt and some would argue it isn’t really the money supply, but in today’s economy, borrowed dollars chase goods the same way actual dollars do and therefore have the same effect on prices.

All the footlongs were never $5.

Are you referring to the NewYork style foot long weiner?

combo,

I’m a fellow deflationist, especially where wages are concerned.

That being said, there is an awful lot of cash out there chasing too few goods. Note the prevalence of “all cash” purchases in many states. I’ve seen it here, myself.

Comment by denquiry
2011-06-21 09:44:44
take home pay (income) = Deflation. Expenses= inflation. gas to dollar ratio keeps increasing. Winners—-collectors of govt largesse. Losers—-payers of govt largesse.
—————–

Depends on how you define those who “collect govt largesse.” If you’re talking about the capitalists who are invested overseas, and who own all the assets that are being chased around by all the newly-printed money, then yes, those are the winners.

If you’re talking about govt workers who hold this country together, and who are being made the scapegoats for the capitalists who have created all our problems, then you are wrong.

Inkjet printers also suck — they’re expensive to operate (cartridges cost an arm and a leg), the cartridges clog/dry out if you don’t print all the time, and most of the HP inkjet printers I’ve had had paper feed problems every so often.

Ultimately, after a few years, the printers go insane, where various lights start randomly blinking for no reason, and it’s time to buy a new one.

My circa-1994 laser printer, on the other hand, does not suffer from these problems.

“My circa-1994 laser printer, on the other hand, does not suffer from these problems.”

Don’t expect that kind of reliability from newer lasers, they’re just as junky as the inkjets.

Which, like most tech companies at the time thinking that manufacturing was for “the little people”, they promptly sold to Japan.

If you knew how much IP we sold to Japan since the 1970s, you would have a heart attack.

To start with, if it’s electronic, we sold the original IP to them. Yes, that means EVERYTHING. You name it. We invented it and sold it to Japan.

The exact same thing we did, and are STILL doing, with China over the last 20 years.

Yep. I was working as a co-op at Kodak Park while in college at that time (early 90s). Fuji had just come on the scene in major way and there was a definite buzz/worry present there about how Kodak would respond.

IIRC, the response was voluntary retirements (before the lay-offs) and the disc camera…

Which has been the response of ALL large American corps since the 1970s for reasons I posted above.

At least it is a transferable skill….

What is your point? You are a workaholic who would rather endanger your unborn child than bow out of a good “workaholic competition”? Your husband is a slacker because he is lucky enough to be in a field where he is appreciated? WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

I think the point is that everyone is a bunch of slackers and whiners.

And everyone needs to get off her lawn.

“I worked 70 hours/week while in my last trimester pregnant and worked up to the day before I was induced.”

I knew people at HP who did that year after year after year (70 hours per week) …

And got laid off.

I knew people at HP who did that year after year after year (70 hours per week) …

And got laid off.

I noticed that pattern a while back so I decided to start working slacker hours. Not slacker as in truly lazy, but more like those young single guys with no debt who do their work and go home and don’t care how it looks. I figured if I were going to get laid off anyway, why kill myself first? So far so good, I haven’t got laid off any more than anybody else. Killing yourself to avoid layoffs would seem to be another form of cargo cult.

God bless you CarreiAnn, but yes, working 70 hrs a week on a regular basis the very definition of a workaholic.

I got off that merry-go-round early in my adult life when I found out it really doesn’t pay nor is it appreciated and it’s VERY bad your health. Can enjoy your money if you’re dead or disabled.

I sincerely hope you are taking it much easier these days. Got to stay around the grand-kids, right?

CAN’T enjoy your money…

I got off that merry-go-round early in my adult life when I found out it really doesn’t pay nor is it appreciated and it’s VERY bad your health. Can enjoy your money if you’re dead or disabled.

I was never a very good workaholic after I got into bicycling. You see, there are these things called weekends. And they’re just wonderful for going on rides.

Ditto for late afternoons and evenings. Also good times for a spin.

And, speaking of spins, another HBB-er and I are getting together for ice cream in Downtown Tucson tomorrow evening. Meetcha at the Hub on Congress Street. Six o’ clock, people! I’ll be the short, skinny one who shows up on a bike.

Same story here . . . worked a salaried job for a private manufacturing company, got put on a project where I was working 11-12 hour days for three months for no extra pay (alongside an hourly worker who WAS getting OT for his time), thought that by “working harder” I would show my value to the company . . . got laid off anyways!

YMMV

And, speaking of spins, another HBB-er and I are getting together for ice cream in Downtown Tucson tomorrow evening. Meetcha at the Hub on Congress Street. Six o’ clock, people! I’ll be the short, skinny one who shows up on a bike.
—————–

Have a great time, guys!!!

That would seem like a very simple way to jump start the moribund economy without raising taxes. I’m surprised Republican politicians haven’t figured that out yet.

no need for cash when you can just get it from the taxpayers for nothing.

I remember that.

These corporations are not supposed to be able to hoard houses.

Wow, I said this just last week to mathguy when he requested suggestions for legislation. i suggested that houses are a “need” and therefore it should be illegal to hoard them.

The only reason banks are hoarding houses is to keep the 2006 asset value on the books. If, after some grace period, bank-owned house values lapsed to their tax assesment or foreclosure comp, the banks would throw them from their books to the courthouse steps within 10 minutes.

If the GSEs do not get dissolved, can this game go on indefinitely?

‘Why don’t we hear even a faint recollection of how terrible this “policy” was from the media or DC?’

Acknowledging your policy was a terrible blunder seems to go against the code of life inside the Beltway.

“…the government could start enforcing the bank regulations. These corporations are not supposed to be able to hoard houses.”

The beauty of disaster capitalism is that there is almost always a crisis underway, and whenever the economy is in crisis, the usual rules don’t apply. The dupes who expect the rules to be followed lose, and the insiders who know better and stand to gain from the enforcement lapse win.

“Acknowledging your policy was a terrible blunder seems to go against the code of life inside the Beltway.”

If by “Beltway” you mean US borders, yes I agree. More of the entitlement / take no responsibility mentality so pervasive here.

Acknowledging your policy was a terrible blunder seems to go against the code of life inside the Beltway.

Now Bear, stop that. You’re hitting below the Beltway.

“Acknowledging your policy was a terrible blunder seems to go against the code of life inside the Beltway.”

Do they realize how badly they’ve blundered or that there were potentially better alternatives? I don’t think a lot of them have a clue, especially those voting on various policy options.

Get it? Food Stamps = Government Cheese.

Anybody?

I’ll be here all week.

corny

“I’ll be here all week.”

Try the veal?

Socialism benefits the rich far more than it benefits the poor.

Too many people fail to grasp this.

“Socialism benefits the rich far more than it benefits the poor.”

LOL! If that were true we’d have gone socialist long before now. Or are the rich indeed being altruistic?

Corporatism benefits the rich. Quasi-socialism protects the rich.

Agreed. Bread and Circuses has reappeared. BTW, I have not posted for a week since neither my work or home computer has been able to get past the screening. Not sure if it is my computers or me that is banned. I hope this post gets through.

“Or are the rich indeed being altruistic?”

Not altruistic, Machiavellian/bent on self-preservation. “Socialist” programs like welfare, food stamps, etc. provide just enough to keep “them” over “there”.

I have seen very few poor that didn’t have a cell phone or a cigarette.

No cell phones on the poor around here and the cigarettes that I see on many of them are made from the stubbies culled from the ground and ashtrays.

I have seen very few poor that didn’t have a cell phone or a cigarette.

And they all drive Escalades and eat steak and lobster every night.

I think we’ve been over this one before.

There was a time in my misspent youth when the only phone I had was a pay phone outside my apartment. With the death of pay phones, cell phones have become more crucial. A pay as you go cell phone can be pretty cheap.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2011-06-21 07:30:25
“Socialism benefits the rich far more than it benefits the poor.”

LOL! If that were true we’d have gone socialist long before now. Or are the rich indeed being altruistic?
——————-

Bill,

The “New Deal” programs (what many would call “socialist” programs) were instituted because the capitalists were trying to ward off the growing communist movement in the U.S.
——————

The dawning of the Thirties saw the country sliding ever deeper into the Great Depression. Unemployment was soaring and would hit about 15 million by March of 1933. Employed workers were feeling less and less secure in their jobs, and the unemployed could expect little help from the federal government. This led to widespread unrest among the working class and provided fertile soil in which the seeds of radicalism could easily be planted. Many new recruits saw the Communist Party as a way to address particular concerns: a means of fighting fascism or racial, ethnic, and religious discrimination, of gaining labor-union objectives, general social improvement, or humanitarian socialist goals.[i]Others saw a more transcendent purpose, embracing the vision of the Communist Manifesto in which Karl Marx eloquently stated, “The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.”

http://depts.washington.edu/labhist/cpproject/grijalva.shtml

That’s a laugh. My Parish actually has a program to help the poor, mostly to help them pay for prescriptions and doctor visits. We learned that other churches in town, when asked for help would redirect the help seekers to our parish office. Of course many of these churches had well paid staffs and huge 3rd world missionary budgets, but they wouldn’t lift a finger to help their neighbor. The Fundies were the most tight fisted bunch.

Of course many of these churches had well paid staffs and huge 3rd world missionary budgets, but they wouldn’t lift a finger to help their neighbor. The Fundies were the most tight fisted bunch.

Same thing happened in my parents’ town. Their church has hosted community dinners for the homeless and poor for years. A few years ago, this church reached out to others for, well, a bit of help with the dinners. According to my mother, the Baptist church was very much against helping THOSE people.

According to my mother, the Baptist church was very much against helping THOSE people.

Tha doesn’t surprise me one bit. Catholics and mainline Protestants still seem to understand the concept of “Christian charity”. Fundies? Not so much.

Yes, precisely correct.

But were they used-to-haves until recently or never-hads? I would think the former would be a lot more dangerous.

Agreed. In Phoenix, monthly housing cost is back to 1980’s levels WITHOUT adjusting for inflation. And yes, cheaper than renting. By any reasonable measure, housing is affordable here as long as people can get mortgages. And contrary to what we read in the media, it isn’t any harder than the historical average to get a mortgage. Much harder than it was 5 years ago, but not any more difficult than it was 15 years ago.

Oh, stop. I know full well that all-government is just as bad as all-private sector. The trick is balancing between the two. At the moment, I think we’re a little too much on the corporate side of the balance. But I think if Ron Paul got in, the tea partiers would be in for a huge shock.

The world would be in for a shock if RuPaul were elected.

OK. What kind of surprises? I take him as sincere, if sometimes rambling.

“OK. What kind of surprises?”

I’m thinking along the lines of “Careful what you wish for, you might just get it.”

Oh, I totally believe Paul is sincere. I’m just thinking of all the government help that the tea-party folks are taking advantage of without even knowing it. MID tax breaks, welfare system (which is gamed on a regular basis), levee protections, FHA loans, rural help, Medicaid, ag subsidies, university research which leads to new drugs, regulated electricity rates, social security for the young as well as the old, unemployment payments, FEMA, and all the “medical hardware” that Matt Taibbi observed at the tea-party rally he attended.

And those are direct support payments. I don’t know if Ron Paul also intends to dismantle protections. People mock the CDC for the flu virus that “fizzled out,” but I won’t forget that “somebody” shut down Mexico City for 10 days to stop the spread of the deadly strain of the flu virus there. Who did that? Hint: it wasn’t Ayn Rand.

I remember last year somebody at HBB said “we haven’t had a nuclear accident in a while, maybe we don’t need all those regulations.” I don’t need to discuss what happened in Japan, but did you know that two weeks ago, the Ft. Calhoun nuke plant in red-state Oklahoma was flooded by the Missouri River? Ft. Calhoun has safety measures and redundancies in place, and is currently in cold shutdown. Who mandated all those protections? Hint: it wasn’t Ayn Rand.

the tea partiers would be in for a huge shock.

They TP’s need a good shock………………..ELECTROSHOCK!

(remember the “Unknown Comic”) I don’t cuz I’m too young.

but cue: Gene-Gene the ________________?

The Missouri River doesn’t go thru Oklahoma.

Unless we had a Tectonic Plate shift nobody has reported. Which wouldn’t be a surprise out here in flyover.

“(remember the “Unknown Comic”)

Yes I do!

I used to watch The Gong Show in between double session football practice my senior year in high school (summer of 1977 class of 78). I remember the Unknown Comic and Gene-Gene the Dancing Machine! Chuckie Chuckie Chuckie. Unfortunately I did not get to see the all girl popsicle act that led to the show`s demise.

I remember the Unknown Comic

I know him! (at least he says he was) A retired English gent here in Rio told me he was the first one (but I couldn’t place the face) and he had a bunch of Chuck Barris stories. Who knows? Maybe he’s SIS.

His English friends told me the dude also was big in the English music business in the day and was best chums with the Rio-English train robber chap.

oops my bad, the Ft. Calhoun plant is in red-state NEBRASKA.

Are you sure Ron Paul is against everything the government does? My impression is that he wants sound money and less illegal government activity. If he thinks the Constitution is the controlling document, I’d agree. To say that we’d all die of the flu after being flooded out & etc. if Ron Paul had his way seems a stretch. Does he even associate himself with the supposed Tea Party or is this a lump all evil in the same label stuff?

“I know him! (at least he says he was) A retired English gent here in Rio told me he was the first one”

I didn’t know there was more than one, but who knows he did have a paper bag on his head. Ask him about the all girl Popsicle act that led to the show`s demise and tell him that he, Gene and Chuckie had a cult following in Greenwich Ct. in 1977.

Blue Skye, I don’t know if Ron Paul has aligned himself with the Tea-Partiers, but on the tee-vee I have heard Tea-Partiers align themselves with Paul’s Constitution-only policy. They cover any inconsistencies with the 10th Amendment.

You know, I would like sound fiscal policies too. It’s so easy to say “stop the government spending,” but really, why is the government spending? It’s pretty simple. Career-type jobs went overseas, so government has to buy the things that people without jobs can’t buy (by giving money/stimulus jobs to the public). Corporations and individuals aren’t paying as much in taxes as they used to, so government has to borrow revenue from China or our future labor. Private sector has a lock on the biggest privatize-the-profit scam of them all: the young and healthy pay into private sector while the old and sick take out from the public sector. Add in a bump where fewer young people have to support more older people in a pay-go system, and it’s easy to rack up debt.

Bring back the careers, knock out tax loopholes and tax all income like income, and start public option health care not tied to employment. Then let’s see where we are on the deficit.

“OK. What kind of surprises? ”

No FDA. No EPA. No Medicare. No Social Security. No FEMA. No OSHA. No SEC. No FDIC. No NASA. No national parks. No federal highways. Minimal military.

That sort of thing.

I don’t take Paul for an anarchist.

Confessions of a Dangerous Mind is a treat movie to rent.

Chuck Barris comes clean about being a CIA assassin during his time on the Dating Game and Newlywed Game.

The Unknown Comic claims that Barris pulled a gun on him backstage at the Gong Show.

I think a lot of people (myself included) agree with a lot of what Ron Paul says. We should have a sound money policy, abolish the Fed, allow more decisions at the state level, follow the Constitution, etc. However, the biggest hesitancy I have is he rarely ever addresses the impact of moving from the way things are today to this world he envisions. Take the Fed for example, while most agree we never should have created it in the first place, what would actually happen today if we abolished it overnight? What would all of the side effects be? We can’t just turn it off and expect everything will be peachy all of a sudden.

Based on the options I see in front of me today, I’d still vote for the guy, but I’d like to hear more detail from him. It’s not like he’d be able to do most of the things he wants to even if he is elected, but it sure would be nice to have real fiscal conservatism in the White House for a change.

I see no reason the FED role could not effectively be assumed by the treasury. They both have the authority to create money, and frankly it is time banks learned to take deposits and loan them to qualified borrowers and pay back some of the interest to the depositors to attract more. That IS the way banking used to work right?

Could not agree more, GH.

———————

oxide wrote:

Bring back the careers, knock out tax loopholes and tax all income like income, and start public option health care not tied to employment. Then let’s see where we are on the deficit.

Oxide for president!!!!

I would love to see Paul and Kucinich run together. Get Bernie Sanders and Ralph Nader in there, and I’d volunteer all my time and lots of money to see them succeed.

The corporatists who run our govt would never let this happen, though.

Almost…but not quite.

To a degree, yes. But jobs are much more scarce in some places than in others. In many parts of flyover country the loss of the local widget factory is often a death knell for many a small community.

In many parts of flyover country the loss of the local widget factory is often a death knell for many a small community.

Right now, I’m reading a book called Methland. It’s about how methamphetamine has been devastating small towns and the countryside throughout the American Midwest.

One of the precipitating factors of rural decline was the loss of good-paying factory jobs during the 1980s and 1990s. What was left? Well, there was cooking meth. That paid pretty darn well. Still does, in fact.

What was left? Well, there was cooking meth. That paid pretty darn well. Still does, in fact.

Meth is the one blight in our idyllic burb. Try as they might, the local cops can’t stop meth houses from popping up.

Of course, HP/Agilent used to employ 3000 people here. Today the campus is a ghost town and the city fathers have signed up to a hare brained scheme called ACE that is supposed to bring new tech firms to town. The purchased the Agilent campus for $5 million (which is about $6 per sq foot). The big hope is that 7000 jobs will eventually be created. I’m not holding my breath.

http://www.reporterherald.com/news_story.asp?id=31995

The Agilent campus sold for the same price as a rich-guy house? Dang…

Yup. You could say the Four-Square, the Craftman, and Prairie-style houses all hail from the same branch of the architectural family tree, so-to-speak. Lots of four-squares in Chicagoland.

Got some more info from the LA. It seems this lot is one of those nightmare short sales (bank takes forever, doesn’t counter-offer, previous buyers have walked away, etc.). We’ll submit and see what happens.

Good luck, Kim!

What I don’t like is our former oversized stucco fugly McMansion. Those homes are an eyesore.

Speaking of McMansion stucco eyesores, that style of housing has been spreading like a cancer in neighborhoods near the University of Arizona.

They’re called mini-dorms, and they house 9-12 college students. And their friends. We neighbors aren’t too happy about ‘em.

The neighborhood to the east of this one is fighting back, and there will be a city council hearing tonight. I’m going.

Why not just buy and fix up the abanoned McMansions for minidorms? Same general layout.

Why not just buy and fix up the abanoned McMansions for minidorms?

Because in the Tucson, AZ area, those McMansions are way-far away from the University of Arizona. And they’re in areas where the neighbors REALLY will object to an influx of student partiers.

“Why not just buy and fix up the abanoned McMansions for minidorms?”

I can’t speak for Slim, but ’round here the McMansions are way out in the outer burbs, while the minidorms are right around campus- often where they’ve been added on to the back of otherwise charming craftsman-style houses. And they’re usually vinyl-sided bland boxes that make even McMansions look attractive.

We blessedly- and belatedly- passed an ordinance that effectively prohibits such POSs. Mainly because the big money developers had built several large apt complexes around campus, and didn’t like the competition.

Look for a house with land and build an addition? That’s within my realm of possibility, which is why the under 1000 sq ft houses appeal to me.

I used to think I wanted a big or wraparound porch until I realized the big eaves block a lot of direct sunlight from the windows, making it gloomy inside. Does not work well in Montana.

Montana
Excellent point! We didn’t think of that.

That’s how I see it.

In the meantime, our dollar (and the wages we earn in dollars) can buy less and less, brief fluctuations in prices, notwithstanding.

Remember kidz:

Obamacare “death panels” = gov bureaucrats kill granny

For-profit InsuranceCo “death panels” = invisible hand of free market

What I’m wondering is if he gets sent to for-profit CorrectionsCo prison, will he have to pay for his own health insurance or can he apply for Medicaid?

“I recently bought a guy a sandwich and a tea who looked like he could use it on a cold day. My friends said that I was enabling him.”

Nice, sleepless!

This is probably my favorite way to separate the “truly needy” from the “want your cash for something you may not want to support” needy. Generally when someone asks me for cash for food, I offer to take them into the nearby place with food and buy them some. They almost always decline, but in the cases where they have not, I feel really good about meeting that need. I like to think someone would do it for me if the shoe were on the other foot.

Is it enabling? Hard to be sure, but I figure a full stomach helps someone survive today, to perhaps change their lot some day in the future.

Example: Retired MLB baseball player (a bench player, not a starter) pulls down a low 6-figure salary by basically telling baseball stories and playing golf all day, as an employee of a large local law firm

And here in Tucson, a retired MLB-er couldn’t find enough qualified signatures from within the City of Tucson to qualify for the mayoral ballot.

From the local fishwrap story:

“Superior Court Judge Paul Tang bounced independent Pat Darcy from the ballot Monday after the Pima County Recorder’s Office found he came up 106 signatures short on nominating petitions.”

And can count on the fingers of one hand the “started out with nothing” guys.

And it seems that the few I hear about made it in real estate during the bubble.

“i’m almost 60, no high school diploma, made a few million then got knocked back down to nothing in the last few years.”

I know a few people who fit that description. When they try the 2nd time, far more often than not, they fail.

you might now want to go back to hard times, neither do the greeks, maybe you need to go protest?

The Greeks should just do what Iceland did: tell the banking clan to go pound sand. Greece will survive, just as every individual who files for BK survives, in spite of all the warnings about “bad credit haunting them for years”. I know someone who filed last year and his credit score is already up to 690 (I figured it would be much worse).

But the banksters know that too much is at stake and they could lose the stranglehold they have on the world, a world they have conned to accept the fiats they conjure out of thin air as “money”.

The government handouts that need to stop are for the top 1%er/bankster class.

And the MNCs (here and abroad) that can only survive with the protection/intimidation of the US Department of Defense.
We’re spending an awful lot of money protecting their interests (freedom of SLOCs, etc) while they game the system to avoid paying their share of the program.

I’m not an entrepeneur. I admit it. But the truth is, I haven’t seen much “entrepeneuring” lately. It’s all about either generating enough BS to get rich on the IPO, or selling it off to the Chinese, because it’s more “profitable”.

How did you lose your millions?

How did you lose your millions?

It isn’t hard when you aren’t a 1%er.

A story.

A friend started a business in North San Diego county in the 70’s. They made public safety telecom equipment and at their peak had a few hundred employees. Anywho, they invented a consumer gadget called the “Entry Alert”. You hang it from a door knob and if some one opens the door it screams. The even got a patent for it.

So he and his partners mortgaged the company to make a zillion of these things. At first sales were brisk, until patent violating Taiwanese knock offs appeared at half the price. They never could figure out who to sue for patent infringement as the import company vanished when they tried to file suit.

So the got stuck with inventory they had to sell below cost and the company went BK.

He tried his hand at entrepreneurship again, but failed everytime. He’s still working even though he’s past 70.

99% of every “made it big” story I ever seen amounted to luck, connections and a bankroll that isn’t spoken about.

I’ve spent my life researching these stories.

However, every American has a 60% chance of experiencing poverty at least once in their life.

Plenty of “opportunity”. To fail. Even more so these days.

Now its $8000 at CU and CSU after you add in all the junk fees.

Oh, and good luck getting a job at Mickey D’s if you don’t speak Spanish.

“The after burner helps I presume.”

I wanted nitrous, but I got methane. 25% of the GWP at least!

“I’m driving 150 miles/day”

Owwwww. I don’t think that I could do more than the 20 miles four mornings a week (plus a long Saturday ride). OK, so there are some dudes who do 25 (those extra 5 are flat), but THAT would be the max I could do. No mas!!

That would leave you with ~130 mi/day. Not much help there. I recall that your job sites are widely spread. That blows. The Teaching Company has great lectures on tape that are free at the library. Just trying for a silver lining…

MrBubble

Correct! But they “think” they are smart!

I don’t want suffering. I want accountability.

You just said that the bankers helped hide the reality of the spending and debt from the population. How can you then go on to blame the population.

The Greek electorate willingly voted in “leaders” who had demonstrated their corruption and financial irresponsibility long before sitting down with Goldman Sachs to fudge the budget numbers. Just as our own hope ‘n change dupes voted for a candidate hand-picked by mega-speculator George Soros and with Goldman Sachs as his #2 campaign contributor.

So yes, the sheeple are just as culpable, if not more so, than the banks. Let’s not forget who signed their names to all those liar-loan documents and mortgages they couldn’t afford. Like they say, it’s hard to cheat an honest man.

And let’s not forget Barney Frank, the poster boy of government meddling in the housing market, who fixed his boyfriend’s dozens of parking tickets in Washington DC (while the latter was working as a gay male escort out of Barney’s basement) and found a job at Freddie Mac for another boy toy of his while he was supposed to be helping to oversee their lending operations. The people of Mass. repeatedly re-elected this slug, knowing full well how dirty he was. Not surprisingly corruption of every form flourishes in that state. As I’ve said, people get the government they deserve. The banks were (and are) a big part of the problem, but they sure as hell weren’t weren’t the only guilty parties.

And let’s not forget, our champion of hope ‘n change emerged from the most corrupt political machine in the country, the Chicago Democratic Party. Did you really believe he would be as pure as driven snow?

Oh please, eco. There’s no such thing as something for nothing. It’s really that simple. Greek politicians, like their Republicrat counterparts, are on the make and on the take. People voted for them DESPITE knowing how sleazy and corrupt they were as individuals, and as political parties. “Follow the money” is always the best indicator of where somebody’s loyalties lie.

and not voting solves the problem how?

The only solution is riots and we aren’t poor enough to riot but we are getting there.

Rioting is NOT a solution. Lawlessness and anarchy can only make things worse. A vigilant, discerning, self-disciplined population is the best antidote to corruption and fraud. Unfortunately, our electorate has long since proved it is none of those things.

And the population would know they were thieves before they were elected, how, exactly?

A simple due dilligence should include looking at a candidate’s primary financial backers, which in the case of Obama and McCain would have left no doubt as to what policies - or should I say WHOSE policies - they would pursue once in office. Hint: it ain’t “change WE can believe in.”

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=n00009638

Not that there`s anything wrong with that.

Well, there is something wrong with that. But if the janitor was in his own closet or the closet another consenting adult instead of a school storage room closet. There wouldn’t be anything wrong with that.

Luck is probably the #1 factor.

This includes having the “luck” to be related to someone in a position to get you better jobs or education or connections.