A Recovery From Something That Was Just Absurd
The Albuquerque Journal reports from New Mexico. “Real estate development, once one of the economic engines in the Albuquerque metro area, faces tough years ahead as the jobless recovery from the Great Recesssion plays out, according to industry insiders. ‘We should all be cross-training,” said Bob Murphy, a veteran developer who has since moved on to become executive director of the nonprofit Economic Forum. ‘Some of us in this room will not be in this business in five years because there’s no demand.’”
“The metro’s housing market peaked in 2005, when a record 12,796 existing single-family homes were sold and permits were issued for a record 8,818 new homes. The median sales price for a single-family home shot up 34 percent from 2004 to 2007. Foreclosures were rare. The housing market is a much different ball game today. Home building is down 86 percent from the construction peak in 2005. The median sales price has dropped about 16 percent from the peak value in 2007. One out of every 173 homes in the metro is in some stage of the foreclosure process.”
“‘People say we’re in a housing recession,’ said local developer Paul Silverman. ‘We’re in a housing recovery from something that was just absurd. Prices need to drop another 10 percent to get back to the long-term trend line.’”
“Housing, not commercial real estate, will be the better bellwether of turnaround in the local economy, said Silverman. ‘Residential (market) got us into this mess,” he said, referring to the mortgage meltdown that began in mid 2007. “Residential has led the way out of every recession in the past.’”
“Texas is getting its fair share of deals, while Arizona and Colorado are improving from economic doldrums. New Mexico’s ratio is getting worse. ‘Are there great success stories out there? Frankly no,’ Murphy said. ‘Texas just kicks our ass.’”
The Dallas Morning News in Texas. “Don’t expect a turnaround in the housing market this year. The foreclosure glut and the employment market have to get sorted out first. And potential buyers are still on the fence. ‘Consumer confidence is pretty well shot,’ said Jed Smith, a managing director of research at the National Association of Realtors.”
“While home sales are finally stabilizing at a lower level, he said, there’s no bottom yet in prices in all but a few markets. ‘Unfortunately, the banks have unreasonably stringent lending standards,’ he said at a meeting Friday of the National Association of Real Estate Editors. ‘Loans just aren’t getting made. The banks aren’t making loans to creditworthy customers.’”
“Sales of distressed homes now account for about 35 percent of pre-owned home sales nationwide. And there’s an even bigger inventory of yet-to-be-foreclosed, troubled homes out there, said Mark Dotzour, chief economist with the Real Estate Center at Texas A&M University. ‘There are a whole bunch of properties that haven’t been foreclosed on,’ he said. ‘Why do people get to live in their house for 24 months without making a payment? I don’t think the foreclosure thing is going to be over yet, because the banks don’t have the capital to finish the foreclosure process.’”
The Express News in Texas. “About 7 million U.S. jobs have been lost during the downturn, probably permanently, said Jed Smith, managing director of quantitative research for the National Association of Realtors. ‘The good news is we’re in a recovery,’ Smith said. ‘I have to tell you that because otherwise you wouldn’t know.’”
“Of course, since there’s really no such thing as a ‘national’ real estate market, looking at various U.S. housing numbers and reports often does nothing more than cause potential homebuyers in healthier markets to panic, said Mark Dotzour, chief economist with the Real Estate Center at Texas A&M University. ‘They’re not helping people make good decisions,’ Dotzour said. ‘It’s kind of a hindrance.’”
From MyCulture Houston in Texas. “The housing market may have bottomed out, but there’s a long way to go before housing is truly healthy again, according to economists at National Association of Real Estate Editors conference in San Antonio. The nation is not generating enough new jobs to pull the housing market out of the doldrums, said Ted Jones, chief economist for Stewart Title.”
“The lack of new jobs combined with the large inventory of homes for sale - there’s a nine-month supply of homes on the market – makes it likely that home prices will slip on a national basis. ‘I guarantee you that prices will continue to go down,’ Jones said.”
“An estimated 40,000 people have been killed since the drug wars started in Mexico about four years ago. It can make for a very tough real estate market. It’s hard to convince an American to buy a house in Mexico when they just heard on the news that stray bullets flew over the border and hit the El Paso City Hall.”
“The market for selling homes and condos in Mexico is off some 80 to 90 percent from its peak a few years ago, said Christopher Hill, executive director of the Mexico Real Estate Coalition. ‘We’re struggling,’ Hill told journalists. ‘It’s bad and it’s not getting much better.’”
The Houston Chronicle in Texas. “Demand for Houston-area rental properties climbed in May as those who lacked the confidence — or the ability - to buy homes rented them instead. The increase in rentals came at the expense of home sales, which fell for the fourth straight month in May. Housing inventory is being affected. It would take eight months to sell all the single-family homes on the market based on sales activity over the past year, according to the report. This area hasn’t seen such high inventory levels since 1996.”
“Analysts say the 2010 homebuyer tax credit has been skewing year-over-year sales data. ‘We’re still measuring apples to oranges,’ said Jim Gaines, an economist with the Real Estate Center at Texas A&M University. ‘We’re comparing this May to May a year ago when we had the tax credit.’”
“In general, prices have remained stable, and real estate agents are selling about as many homes as they did in the early 2000s before the housing boom. But real estate agent Ken Smith said the market won’t improve until sellers become more realistic about prices. The average number of days it took to sell a property last month also increased from the previous year, going from 71 days to 86 days.”
“Smith said high asking prices are to blame ‘In order for sales volume to pick up, buyers and sellers must agree on the correct price. The gap between what buyers and sellers think has been moving up for the past three months.’”
The Times-Picayune in Louisiana. “The New Orleans area must add jobs to slice through a challenging real estate market, speakers at the UNO Economic Outlook and Real Estate Forecast Seminar said Friday. Ivan Miestchovich, director of the Institute for Economic Development and Real Estate Research at University of New Orleans, said that the New Orleans area remains in relatively good shape compared with the rest of the country, but an uncertain economic climate continues to plague the region. Consumers have low confidence, are squeezed by rising food and gasoline prices, and are concerned about jobs and the housing market.”
“‘A lot of people are still trying to figure out, have we really seen any signs of a true recovery?’ he said.”
“Speaker after speaker at the half-day event said that more jobs are needed to improve the real estate market and sop up available housing and office space. ‘The conversation is really about jobs,’ said Rick Haase, president of Latter & Blum Inc.”
“Foreclosures in Louisiana and the New Orleans area have been increasing, but still remain low: Louisiana ranks 41st in terms of the number of foreclosures nationwide. Slidell is the worst foreclosure market in the state. But when a foreclosed home is sold, Haase said, it generally sells at a 35 percent to 41 percent discount, and when a house sells for such a deep discount, it’s hard for others nearby to command a reasonable price.”
“Haase said that there’s still a tremendous gap in the number of properties available for sale and the number of homes that are actually sold, although inventory is starting to fall. A four-to-five month supply of homes is generally considered a healthy level of sale inventory in a market, but right now, there’s a 10.9-month supply in Orleans Parish, an 11.7-month supply in Jefferson, and 12.9-month supply in St. Tammany. ‘This is still and over-supply, under-demand market,’ he said.
“The lending climate has also put a damper on the market. While ultra-low interest rates have helped people refinance or get into homes, anyone who recently refinanced is unlikely to shop for a new home anytime soon unless they have to relocate, because chances are, they’ll have to pay a much higher interest rate at their new home.”
“Meanwhile, lenders now increasingly require a down payment of 20 percent on a home, which limits the pool of buyers in Louisiana, where 61 percent of home loans were made with less than a 20 percent down payment. Any overhaul of the Federal Housing Authority, which allows smaller down payments and was involved in 64 percent of the nation’s home loans last year, could also affect the availability of financing for buyers.”
From Tulsa World in Oklahoma. “The effects of the mortgage crisis were evident in figures released last month by the U.S. Census Bureau, with data showing Oklahoma homeownership rates declining to levels not seen in 50 years. The last time the homeownership rate was this low in Oklahoma was 1967. The mortgage crisis especially has been bad for business at agencies that offer homeownership programs for those with low and moderate incomes.”
“‘We have properties out there right now for sale,’ said Carl Holmes, a real estate specialist with the Tulsa Housing Authority. ‘The trouble, for the past three years it has been, the lending requirements have really pushed out a lot of the affordable homebuyers that we are trying to get.’”
The Ada Evening News in Oklahoma. “Despite a downward trend in the rest of the United States, local bankers and Realtors say Ada’s housing market is strong. Kay Kelly of Paradigm Realty and president of Ada Board of Realtors said Ada’s housing market has shown a positive trend since 2009. Kelly said she thinks negative publicity keeps Ada’s market from being what it could be.”
“‘I believe it could be way better,’ she said. ‘There’s just so much negative publicity about the housing market that doesn’t apply to Ada. ‘People are afraid to buy because they hear how bad the market is.’”
“George Huckeby of Huckeby and Associates Realtors said he believes Ada’s market is strong. ‘People are starting to look and buy again and interest rates are still super low,’ he said. ‘We’ve got some motivated sellers. Buyers who are sitting on the fence need to get off the fence and take advantage of that.’”
The Oklahoman. “Betty Shaw, of SpiritBank in Oklahoma City, is a big-city banker who lives in a not-so-big-city, and a mortgage specialist who doesn’t make mortgage loans. She has a soft spot in her heart for fictional George Bailey, his Bailey Bros. Building & Loan and his ‘Wonderful Life’ in Bedford Falls — and her own roots are in the very real and tragic savings-and-loan business.”
“Here’s an edited transcript of a recent conversation with The Oklahoman. Q: What makes your work important? To housing? To people?A: As corny as it may sound, there truly is a good feeling to know that a part of what you do every day is helping someone enjoy and experience the pride of homeownership. But with that being said, not necessarily is homeownership for everyone. And it’s our job as a mortgage banker to make the distinction between the two and ensure we are putting people into the right home loan product for the right reason.”
“Q: Quick: Compare and contrast mortgage lending and housing in Oklahoma with the rest of the country. A: When traveling outside of Oklahoma I always pick up real estate market brochures to review home prices. Oklahomans are truly fortunate to have the home prices that we have in our state. The square footage we can purchase for our dollars versus other states is amazing.”
“Also while attending meetings and hearing economists report on foreclosures, delinquencies and sales numbers from other states, it makes you proud once again to live in Oklahoma.”
‘her own roots are in the very real and tragic savings-and-loan business’
It’s always interesting to me when I see this period mentioned. In the areas where it actually happened, it is almost an episode too painful to dwell on. I guess you had to be there to understand that.
“An estimated 40,000 people have been killed since the drug wars started in Mexico about four years ago. It can make for a very tough real estate market.
I wonder about all those folks that snapped those condos in the Trump Resort south of Tijuana….
Here in Tucson, the local fishwrap just reported that Puerto Penasco (Rocky Point) is going to build a big convention center. The local sentiment: “Good luck with that. And don’t get caught in the drug war crossfire.”
‘The good news is we’re in a recovery,’ Smith said. ‘I have to tell you that because otherwise you wouldn’t know.’
Yeah right. How about: The numbers are fudged and there is no recovery.
I’m convinced that we need a “Ministry of Truth/Facts/Unfudged Statistics”
Facts/statistics are so fudged and manipulated, that anyone can dig up bogus/biased “research” to support whatever wacky policy they choose to promote. Nobody can agree that there is even a problem, much less come up with a reasonable solution.
The recoveryless recovery.
These people need to read the story of the kings clothes…
Are you suggesting that the Emporeror is butt naked???
“Oklahomans are truly fortunate to have the home prices we have in our state.”
If it wasn’t for the oil and aerospace businesses, Oklahoma would be Wyoming
Nobody moves to Oklahoma (or anywhere else between the Mississippi and the Rockies), unless they have no other options. The “house prices are cheap” meme is just people trying to convince themselves that moving there is a great idea.
What isn’t mentioned is that everything else costs as much as it does on the coasts. But instead of making $75K/year on the coast, you make $40K/year.
Nobody moves to Oklahoma (or anywhere else between the Mississippi and the Rockies), unless they have no other options.
What kind of east/west coast snob are you?
I tell you - there is nothing better than owning a $750,000 crack shack on Long Island with $15,000/year tax bill…
If that were true, then everyone would live on the coasts. Only 10% of people in the US individually make more than $75k. That’s 30mm of 300mm. In actuality, in Oklahoma, you make $40k. On the coast, you make $50k.
As a lifelong resident of Kansas, and a native born Okie (born in Muskogee no less). I’m qualified.
Back in the 1800s, they had to give away land out here to get people to stay. And even then, most people couldn’t make a go at it.
Entertainment wise, your listening choices are listening to Rush, and country music. Live entertainment is limited to country music concerts, dirt track racing, horse riding events, “Cruise Nights” mostly populated with old Camaros and Chevelles, and weekly Harley rider “Poker Runs” for some kind of charity.
(Burning hundreds of gallons of fossil fuels, to support asthma research. Yeah, makes sense to me.)
All of our best high school and college students head for the coasts as soon as they can.
Some stay to work in the family businesss. The same guys that brag about the “cost of living”, while paying $8-10/hour salaries to their employees.
Most of the not-so-bright crowd stay here to compete with the illegals for jobs, and become Tea Bagger Republicans.
Or sign up with the “Abortion is Murder” crowd. Then bitch about school mill levies, because “it’s not my job to educate someone else’s kids.”
I’m 53…….I stand out among the parents with high school age kids around here. Most of them are 35-38. Most people my age around here have 10-12 year old grandkids. Do the math.
If you’ve spent any time at all living in a normal place, you begin to realize that life out here is something to be endured, not really enjoyed.
The Army used to consider being posted to the Plains as “hardship duty”. Then some ad type figured out that they could quit paying hazardous duty pay, if they started bragging about “affordable housing”.
At least the tornados are cool.
Great rant! Lots of drilling on the Mesa near Pinedale too. Messing up the antelope (hunt) too.
As a lifelong resident of Kansas, and a native born Okie (born in Muskogee no less). I’m qualified.
But as a resident of Kansas until 1986, 86-94 West LA, 94-08 Bay Area Cali and Rio Brazil 08-now, I’m 1/2 qualified too.
Kansas can be cool too. (about 1/5 of it)
College in Lawrence Kansas was the best. Eastern Kansas is wooded and has rolling hills and lots of game and wildlife. If you live on a little wooded lake outside of KC you have country/city/lake living. KC gets the major rock, classical and jazz events as well as country. KC is an historical center of jazz and KC still has some of the outlaw, wide-open feel to it. Lawrence and parts of KC are fairly liberal (but not to the nutball extent of the Bay Area). Nelson Atkins art gallery and the Spencer are almost world class in what they present.
Kansas City Symphony is good, Kansas has cable tv now, A/C and now even 2 Trader Joe’s.
I could retire there and I’ve lived in a few desirable and/or exotic areas of the country and world and I’ve been to 48 states soon to be 49. I always look forward to visiting family and friends in KC, especially in the fall, houses are cheap and there are a lot of smart people in Eastern Kansas. No?
I’m going to be moving to KC pretty soon.
Grew up in Olathe when it was out in the country, and the population was about 15K. Grew to 35K or thereabouts when i went to school.
Now it’s around 150K. Lenexa and south Overland Park used to be the south edge of the KC Metro. Now, it’s out past Gardner/Stanley/Desoto
I-35 traffic to/from Johnson County during rush hour is a giant Charlie-Foxtrot. US-71 south from downtown to the “Grandview Triangle” is about as bad. I-70 west out of downtown isn’t too bad, all the way to Lawrence. I-29 north toward KCI isn’t terribly bad either.
I got used to a 7 minute drive to work. Not excited about sitting in JoCo traffic for an hour.
If it wasn’t for the oil and aerospace businesses, Oklahoma would be Wyoming
Wyoming has a decent amount of oil and a ridiculous amount of coal. Most of the Wyomingites that makes a decent wage do so due to that. No aerospace, though. I could see a Wyoming person saying “if it wasn’t for these mountains we might as well be Oklahoma” :-).
Wyoming = Saudi Arabia of Coal
At least the NE corner of the state.
Lots of Nat Gas In Wyoming too.
What isn’t mentioned is that everything else costs as much as it does on the coasts. But instead of making $75K/year on the coast, you make $40K/year.
Ding, ding, ding!
And sometimes, things cost even more (like fresh produce).
Yeah, when I was moving out of Mass. 15 years ago, Wyoming was NOT on the list of places to go!!
It was either Raleigh, or Seattle…Raleigh was the right choice. Been to Seattle, great city, get out of that a bit, suicide land.
Everybody said it would be cheaper in Raleigh…nope. Unless you were buying a house, not at all.
To each his own, I guess. As a native North Carolinian, you couldn’t pay me to live in Raleigh, Durham, or Charlotte.
Durham, Charlotte, ugh. Raleigh carries the culture for the state. I would not LIVE in Raleigh, but around there, is the best area in the state…unless you like to live like a hermit!
“An estimated 40,000 people have been killed since the drug wars started in Mexico about four years ago. It can make for a very tough real estate market. It’s hard to convince an American to buy a house in Mexico when they just heard on the news that stray bullets flew over the border and hit the El Paso City Hall.”
“The market for selling homes and condos in Mexico is off some 80 to 90 percent from its peak a few years ago, said Christopher Hill, executive director of the Mexico Real Estate Coalition. ‘We’re struggling,’ Hill told journalists. ‘It’s bad and it’s not getting much better.’”
I think of all those home shows I saw of US citizens buying condos/houses in Mexico.
They need to do a show “Where are they now?”
“Texas is getting its fair share of deals, while Arizona and Colorado are improving from economic doldrums. New Mexico’s ratio is getting worse. ‘Are there great success stories out there? Frankly no,’ Murphy said. ‘Texas just kicks our ass.’”
Why is Texas doing so well? What are they doing different?
Texas adds 732,800 jobs in 10 years; no other state tops 100,000
G. Scott Thomas
June 21, 2011
http://www.bizjournals.com
Texas added more jobs in the past 10 years than the total jobs of the 19 states, including the District of Columbia, that were positive for job growth.
Texas has enjoyed an unequaled economic boom the past 10 years.
The inventory of private-sector jobs in Texas increased by 732,800 between April 2001 and the same month this year, according to an On Numbers analysis of new federal employment data.
No other state registered an increase of more than 100,000 private-sector jobs during the decade. Only 19 states and the District of Columbia posted any gains at all.
California suffered the biggest decline during the decade. It had 623,700 fewer private-sector jobs last month than it did a decade ago. Michigan was next with a 10-year loss of 619,200 positions.
www dot bizjournals.com/bizjournals/on-numbers/scott-thomas/2011/05/texas-adds-732800-jobs-in-10-years.html
Speaking from the perspective of an Arizonan, here are two things that Texas is doing right:
1. It has a very diversified economy that encompasses a lot more than real estate development. Sorry to say, but Arizona and New Mexico have been obsessively focused on population growth (read: real estate development) as their primary economic driver.
2. It puts money into its higher education system. And, believe it or not, there was a time when the University of Arizona was thought to be a better school than the University of Texas. That was as recent as the 1980s. It was during that time that Texas really started sinking major money into the UT system. Arizona? Well, let’s say that the state legislature got a case of the budget-cutting fever, one that continues to this day.
Say what you will about higher ed, but look at the UT system as compared to say, the universities in Arizona and New Mexico. Quite a difference.
The employment statistics are very skewed in Texas. The majority of real estate development jobs involved illegals. They worked off the books. That is why the number of construction jobs are increasing in Texas as comstruction is continuing to hit a decade low.
From the article:
“The runners-up to Texas in private-sector growth were Arizona and Utah, which added 90,200 and 90,000 jobs respectively, during the decade from 2001 to 2011.”
Utah has about 1/10 of Texas’ population. That makes Utah’s 90K growth when normalized to Texas’ much bigger population the equivalent of 900K jobs. So Utah is #1.
Maybe we should all join the LDS?
Also:
Median HH income in
Utah: $62,935
Texas: $56,607
Colorado: $68,943
Source: Census Bureau
I moved from CA to Utah in 06. I think some of Utah’s success can be attributed to conservative state and local gov budgeting, similar to Texas I presume.
You go proud Oklahoman’s, you go! You need all that square footage to protect you from whats outside, namely Oklahoma. Plus you probably need that square footage because of your own personally enlarged size.
Ya gotta love this. Imagine the difference between who a flinty-eyed banker and a squinty-eyed realtor thinks is creditworthy. If the NAR found some homes their credit-worthy borrowers could actually afford they might push more houses.
It appears that the NAR’s new talking point, in addition to the reliable excuse of bad weather, is that depressed home sales are due to overly stringent bank lending requirements that deny credit to the deserving. But banks could totally relax their requirements for creditworthy customers, and it still wouldn’t be smart to borrow money to purchase a depreciating asset.
May God damn the Housing Crime Syndicate…. and evil axis of corrupt realtors, criminal mortgage salesmen, incompetent appraisers and utterly useless “inspectors”. God damn them all.
“It appears that the NAR’s new talking point, in addition to the reliable excuse of bad weather, is that depressed home sales are due to overly stringent bank lending requirements that deny credit to the deserving.”
So… its not the appraisors’ fault for turning in low appraisal reports anymore?
There is a serial scapegoating occurring, no doubt. I can’t find the link, but I remember one instance when poor sales were blamed on the distraction caused by the Super Bowl.
This entire Southwest thread can be summed up in one sentence: Where are the jobs. Maybe we should give tax cuts to the job creators?
Good point about everything else costing the same. If you live in San Diego you pay less for groceries and many other goods and services while paying more if you’re crazy enough to buy a house. On the other hand, rents track closely with what they are in Virginia and that should tell you a few things about whether San Diego is still in a bubble.
It is of course because incomes are often just awful in San Diego for the lower 90th. percentile because there’s such a labor surplus for scut work and there just aren’t enough high earners to buy all that high priced housing…
And, as for Oklahoma, housing better be cheap there unless it’s Oklahoma City and of course you can buy cheap in Detroit or Millinocket, Maine. If you’ve got a grubstake and you want to live cheap, never leave your house, have no cultural life and no friends, then those are good places to live….
I actually have been to Millinocket, Maine. It’s not the end of the world, but you can see it from there.
“‘Texas just kicks our ass.’”
…
The Dallas Morning News in Texas. “Don’t expect a turnaround in the housing market this year. The foreclosure glut and the employment market have to get sorted out first. And potential buyers are still on the fence. ‘Consumer confidence is pretty well shot,’ said Jed Smith, a managing director of research at the National Association of Realtors.”
Nice segue!
Buyers are not on the fence. Buyers are in their apartments, paying inflated rent while trying to save up for a down payment from non-inflating wages. They’re going to be “on the fence” for a while.
“Sales of distressed homes now account for about 35 percent of
pre-ownedused home sales nationwide.”“Of course, since there’s really no such thing as a ‘national’ real estate market, looking at various U.S. housing numbers and reports often does nothing more than cause potential homebuyers in healthier markets to panic,…”
With a small handful of Wall Street banks comprising 65% of the banking sector, and a vast majority of mortgage finance coming from DC, the financing backing the market looks pretty national to me.
there’s really no such thing as a ‘national’ real estate market,
That’s such BS. Outside of the high priced areas, and the disaster areas like the IE, prices seem to be very similar, averaging about 210k for a 3/2 crapshack. There is really a surprising uniformity in the national market, FWIW.
That’s correct. The housing market is strongly national in scope, and tends to move as one unit, since as you noted, most people use banks to purchase housing, and the banks pretty much form a single entity across the U.S. In other words, there’s a national housing market since there’s a national mortgage market in the banks.
That’s why we had a housing bubble, and that’s why it was everywhere … from the most dense and wealthy areas like downtown NYC, Chicago, L.A., Dallas and Miami, to less lucrative areas like Madison and Buffalo, to absolute backwaters like Moosejaw, Idaho. 99.5% of the housing in the nation was overpriced by at least 10%, and at least 50% was strongly overpriced (50% or more than could be sustained), and about 15% was horribly overpriced (200% or more over sustainable). That 15% was naturally concentrated in the most dense and wealthy areas, where the bankers could best get away with hiding the problems of excessive credit.
Naturally, since Realtors Are Liars, the NAR can’t admit any of that, even though the evidence for it just screams at you from all the numbers. Even the NAR’s vassal state — the mainstream media — can’t cover up all that data. The MSM just blinds people with B*S*, which is how Westerners run their propaganda systems.
‘The gap between what buyers and sellers think has been moving up for the past three months.’
Most buyers are constrained by incomes and credit rating to how much they can afford — i.e., they face budget constraints which the sellers don’t see.