Bits Bucket for June 30, 2011
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
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Tax dollars at work…
by Mark Weaver WMAL.com
FAIRFAX, Va. — Resort-style swimming pools with fountains and heated spas, billiards rooms, granite counter tops, ceramic tile, indoor basketball courts, stainless steel appliances — many Fairfax County taxpayers cannot afford such luxuries. But they are paying for these amenities for use by low-income residents who live in subsidized housing in affluent neighborhoods.
“They’re a part of our rental program where we subsidize the rents for the individuals in the units, and we end up having to pick up the condo fees,” supervisor Pat Herrity told 630 WMAL News.
Herrity does not advocate putting low-income residents in “ghetto-style” housing but he takes issue with taxpayers who cannot afford such luxuries being forced to pick up the tab for people who qualify for subsidized housing.
“These are resort-style amenities that the majority of the taxpayers that are subsidizing it don’t have on their own,” said Herrity, adding that “luxury has no place in subsidized housing.”
“If the occupants of these homes improve their lives financially, they will be forced to move out. And the housing they could afford without the taxpayer subsidy is well below the quality of these homes,” he said.
Herrity said Fairfax County should sell subsidized housing units located in affluent neighborhoods and stop paying the condo fees.
“Why would we have taxpayers who are trying to work their way into these neighborhoods pay for somebody else to be put into these neighborhoods,” said Herrity.
It’s not just NoVa. I have a friend who lives in a small apartment in one of these complexes. It’s not quite as luxury, but it’s more than low-income should be able to afford. My friend complains of the obvious low-income or non-working people in the computer room and weight room. There aren’t enough of them to have taken over the pool yet, apparently.
Some day people like your friend may make the connection between their votes for political parties that enable such parasitism, and the inexorable expansion of the deadbeat population.
I know the connection. Who voted for the political parties which offshored the jobs which helped to cause all this mess? Oh, right, probably all of us.
Seriously, it’s nice to want to help the poor, but to be honest, maybe they really belong in ghetto housing. I certainly don’t like the idea of sprinkling them among the middle class, thinking that the middle class will somehow “raise the kids up a level.” It may work for some, but it’s more likely that the middle-class kids would be brought down.
Repeat after me: both parties suck. Both rely on graft and patronage (to very different demographics and special interest groups) to maintain their stranglehold on the levers of power.
but it’s more likely that the middle-class kids would be brought down.
Which I suspect is the goal of the PTB. A poor society can’t effectively fight their tightening control of gov unless it is willing to riot.
the R and Ds are alot like “professional” wrestlers. They act like they hate each other in public and act like they care about each one’s constituents but behind closed doors it’s all high fives and butt slapping at hell well they are screwing all of us.
Low income = low voter turn out
Effin’ amazing, isn’t it? We have much the same around these parts. USDA subsidized complexes, both rental and to buy, complete with pool, clubhouse, tot lots and jitney service to take the residents back and forth to (subsidized) doctor appointments.
Back when I wuz looking for an affordable apartment after selling my home at the height of the bubble, I rather innocently walked into one of these places and when I approached a Hispanic lady at the office, she got all snotty with me and told me I had to work in the agricultural industry to live there. I sort of sheepishly slunk out.
The sort of private rental crap shack places that were available to me on my budget didn’t even begin to approach the amenities these complexes have.
Hey, that ACORN bloc won’t show up to the polls without the proper inducements.
Could this be the end* of the multifamily housing craze?
Dum, dum, dummmm….stay tuned.
* in other words the return of condos to being the niche product they were prior to the boom
i suspect that affordable housing is a big component to the housing bubble.
in recent decades it became impossible to develop anything in much of california without including affordable housing. both the taxpayers and the home buyers subsidize.
deed restricted values are now higher than market values yet that madness continues.
x = 1 housing unit’s contribution to required affordable housing.
now your new house cost at least its real cost + x.
while you are buying your new house you get the privilege of buying a part of a housing unit for someone else and then your tax dollars can go for paying a portion of it going forward over time.
Understood, it’s that way in my city too, and has been for a while now. What hasn’t been realized, however, is the downward effect this should have on unassisted house prices over the long haul.
I doubt it, edgewater. As long as you can build “homes” with shared walls on very little land, the profit motive for attached product is huge.
Yesterday I posted a link to a development with “stacked townhomes.” One family on floor 1-2, another family on 3-4. So now they’re sharing walls AND ceilings. And they are charging through the nose for it. I wonder if they can call it “multifamily,” which it is.
And you can bet the landlord had some roll in pushing this through.
There you have it.
The situation is most likely due to abuse of the Section 8 program by local developers/property managers in collusion with their local politician chums and NOT some mandate by the government.
The last I had heard, Class A property does NOT qualify as Section 8. That may have changed since I last looked at the regs., but I’m more than willing to bet it is instead, abuse by the landlords.
To be fair, it may also be caused by overflow. In other words, there are simply not enough regular Section 8 properties to handle the need.
I think you are confusing commercial with residential.
There is a minimum Section 8 residential standard, but no maximum.
Apartment complexes are classified by the commercial rating.
Ones with clubhouses, pool rooms, gyms and computer rooms are generally Class A.
I thought there was a maximum based on price, i.e. if there is a unit available of the same general condition, the renter can only qualify for the cheaper unit. But honestly, I wasn’t sure.
Bank of America settlement could speed foreclosures
Investor settlement includes promise to outsource ‘high risk’ mortgages
~ MSNBC
Investors who bought bonds backed by shaky loans scored a major victory Wednesday with the announcement that Bank of America will pay more than $8 billion to make up for some of their losses.
Homeowners on the other end of those shaky mortgages — especially those most at risk of foreclosure — may have less to cheer about.
In the largest settlement to date related to the rogue mortgage lending wave, Bank of America said Wednesday it would pay $8.5 billion to settle claims with investors holding about $100 billion worth of mortgage-related securities sold by its Countrywide unit. The winners include 22 large investors such as Pimco, Metropolitan Life and BlackRock, as well as the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.
Aside from their claims that Countrywide sold them bonds backed by faulty loans, the investors argued that by continuing to service bad loans rather than speeding up foreclosures, the Bank of America unit ran up servicing fees, profiting at the expense of investors.
As a result the settlement includes a promise to hire additional “subservicers” to speed up the foreclosure process for high-risk loans. That means Bank of America borrowers whose foreclosure have been on hold may now see the process accelerated.
“Living with the uncertainty of foreclosure can’t be a pleasant experience,” said Bank of America spokesman Jerry Dubrowski. “The sooner we can deal with that overhang the better for the economy.”
Bank of America also faces considerable uncertainty as it continues to try put its mortgage woes behind it.
While the bank said its settlement would resolve “nearly all” its exposure related to mortgages issued by Countrywide, only holders of about a quarter of the securities have agreed to support the deal. Hundreds of investors holding an additional $300 billion worth of securities have yet to agree to the settlement, which also is subject to court approval. There are no guarantees that the remaining investors will go along.
“It is not possible to predict whether and to what extent challenges will be made to the settlement or the timing or ultimate outcome of the court approval process,” Bank of America said in its press release announcing the settlement.
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=189057
More on BoA settlement.
“$8.5 billion to settle claims with investors holding about $100 billion worth of mortgage-related securities”
That is not a haircut, that is a headcut.
In other banking news, SunTrust has billboards going up in my area near Wells Fargo billboards. They read, “SunTrust is still SunTrust.”
LOL.
Now THAT’S funny!
If they sell mortgage up the food chain, then they may as well be BoA. The main reason I chose the community bank was so they didn’t try to sell me other products every time I went to make a deposit.
I “barely” and I do mean barely, trust my credit union.
Banks? I’d sooner trust a drug dealer.
I “barely” and I do mean barely, trust my credit union.
I’m with ya, ecofeco.
My credit union’s very much into selling products to people like me. All I do is make deposits and withdraw cash from the ATM outside. Which makes me a real bore.
Bank of America also faces considerable uncertainty as it continues to try put its mortgage woes behind it.
I’m in a peppy mood this morning. Must have something to do with that 3 a.m. wakeup call from Mother Nature.
No, nothing wrong with me, it was the weather. Rain has returned to the Old Pueblo. That’s right — rain. That wet stuff that falls from the sky.
And how did our rain return? Not via one of those polite evening thunderstorms that one watches from the living room. Uh-uh.
This one had to come crashing in during the wee hours of the morning and roust everyone out of a sound sleep.
Which brings me back to Bank of America. Their troubles, er, uncertainties, remind me of that Bob Dylan song about the hard rain that’s gonna fall.
Forecast in your general area is for 119F this weekend
I remember this time of year was way hot in AZ
rain should help
Well, you’ll be pleased to know that hot weather doesn’t keep us indoors.
I’m going to a pool party this weekend, and the forecast temp for Saturday will be 109. I think I might just jump into the pool, and I don’t usually do that during the daytime. (It’s too easy to get a nasty sunburn, and I’ve done that. Ouch.)
And, if that’s not nutty enough, I was among the 300 or so people who turned out for the weekly Meet Me at Maynards walk and run ’round Downtown this past Monday. It was a mere 112 degrees. I did the three-mile walk, and it was one of the more pleasant ones that I’ve done recently.
wear lots of sunblock!
wear lots of sunblock!
Slathering the SPF 45! And filling my hydration pack to the brim!
Disaster Strikes Texas
Thanks to the extreme drought conditions, all of Texas has been declared a natural disaster. ~ 1035superx.com
The U.S. Department of Agriculture has designated 213 counties directly impacted by drought as disasters and those, along with the remaining 41 contiguous counties, can now qualify for federal financial aid.
Texas Agriculture Commissioner Todd Staples says as bad as things are, they can get worse.
“We are currently ranked as the third-worst drought on record in Texas. But each passing day moves us closer to the number one year. It is a true calamity. The impact is heartbreaking,” says Staples. “We’ve had over two million acres of dry land cotton being declared 100% abandoned. We have livestock producers that are liquidating their herds, something they’ve spent their entire lifetime building up. It’s just a dreadful set of circumstances.”
Estimated losses in agriculture could top the 2006 record of $4.1-billion and about 71% of the state is in the worst drought stage.
Over three million acres have been scorched due to wildfires.
“can now qualify for federal financial aid.”
Oh, so things are tough and now they want assistance from the government? Time for us taxpayers to bail them out?
Buncha socialists. Get outa the way, and let the markets work. You’re broke? Sell your farm to someone who isn’t.
Nothing worse than a commie cowboy.
I was behind one of these bailed-out farmers at the grocery store the other day. He was talking on his iphone, buying steaks and candy bars! Drove away in a nice, big truck.
Must be nice, living on welfare.
What was he doing in a grocery store buying steaks???
Shouldn’t he be hacking off his own cow parts every night? I bet Sister Sarah could hack off a cow part better than he could.
I’d rather see my tax dollars go to help out a rancher struggling with an epic drought, than a Wall Street plutocrat struggling to come up with more creative predatory schemes to defraud middle America.
Yeah, those ranchers just need some temporary welfare, until they can get back on their feet and receive their federal subsidies again.
Ki-yippee-yippee-yi-yay…..
While they condemn the unemployed for getting an extension on their UE benefits.
You can bet that most of those farmers vote against any social spending. I spent a good chunk of my youth in rural texas.
Majority red state. With a deficit as big as CA.
It isn’t socialist welfare when you’re the recipient of the gov’t cheese.
It’s like someone said here yesterday: They wave their “don’t tread on me” snake flag in one hand while grabbing their gov’t cheese with the other hand.
Hypocrisy. How does it work?
(in case anyone wonders about that turn of phrase I keep using, it’s from a song by ICP called “F*#$^^#$ Magnets, how do they work?!” which is basically a song with a hidden meaning about ignorance)
YouTube it. WARNING! NSFW!
…and I’d rather see Social Darwinists walk the talk no matter WHO they are.
And speaking of Social Darwinists … I always find it amusing that Protestant Fundamentalists get so bent out of shape over Biological Darwinism but embrace Social Darwinism (which Jesus actually did speak out against). I’m sure most of those Texas ranchers are either Baptists or “Church of Christ”.
Texas is just about Baptist central.
The Church of Christ crowd makes the Baptists look liberal by comparison. From what I have heard they are the #2 fundy denomination in Texas, close behind the Baptists.
In a word, yes.
neither should get bailed out.
What markets? The last time I looked all the markets were rigged LOL
Why are we bailing out Texas farmers? Didn’t Gov. Perry want Texas to secede? You mean the glorious Texas economy can’t make it rain, no matter how hard charlatan Perry prays for rain?
Gov. Perry is a blowhard GOP charlatan (one of many) who at one time worked on Al Gore’s campaign staff.
Thank god he isn’t thinking about running for president.
Oh wait…
They are bailing them out because they are afraid of food riots if the farmers don’t have money to plant come November.
/not that I believe people in the US will get off their cell phones and Facebook long enough to riot.
What!? You mean the invisble hand won’t take care of this? That farmers in other states won’t pick up the slack?
Don’t these self reliant Texas farmers buy crop insurance? Or is that what out of state taxpayers are for?
Food riots over cotton? Doubtful. We’ll just buy cotton from the Brazilians, like ethanol and orange juice and everything else.
Hypocrisy. It’s what’s for dinner.
Texas sized. Where everything’s bigger ‘n better. Including the a*holes.
I heard they have the biggest midgets, too.
You know it!
(no joke. they do.)
Okay, Texans. You’re busy hoping, praying, and doing whatever for rain. Just like we have been in Tucson.
Well, just you wait. You’re going to get your rain. In the wee hours of the morning, just like we’re getting ours.
Sleep well, Texans!
We had a drought here in Florida a week and a half ago. Seven inches of rain later, and poof! Back to normal. The rains were a little later this year and people were on the cusp of really freaking out. Funny how fast these things can turn around.
Fannie Mae Silence on Taylor Bean Mortgages Opened Way to $3 Billion Fraud By Tom Schoenberg - Jun 30, 2011 (Bloomberg)
Fannie Mae Silence on Taylor Bean Opened Way to $3 Bln Fraud
The first sign of what would ultimately become a $3 billion fraud surfaced Jan. 11, 2000, when Fannie Mae executive Samuel Smith discovered Taylor, Bean & Whitaker Mortgage Corp. sold him a loan owned by someone else.
Fannie Mae, the government-sponsored enterprise which issues almost half of all mortgage-backed securities, determined over the next two years that more than 200 loans acquired from Taylor Bean were bogus, non-performing or lacked critical components such as mortgage insurance.
That might have been the end of Taylor Bean and its chairman and principal owner, Lee Farkas. He is scheduled to be sentenced today in federal court in Alexandria, Virginia, for orchestrating what prosecutors call one of the “largest bank fraud schemes in this country’s history.”
Instead, it was just the beginning.
Fannie Mae officials never reported the fraud to law enforcement or anyone outside the company. Internal memos, court papers, and public testimony show it sought only to rid itself of liabilities and cut ties with a mortgage firm selling loans “that had no value,” as Smith, the former vice president of Fannie Mae’s single family operations, said in a 2008 deposition.
The trial of Farkas and his co-defendants resulted in the only major criminal conviction stemming from the financial crisis — a crisis that followed the September 2008 collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and the U.S. government takeover of Fannie Mae and its rival Freddie Mac that same month.
‘Most Significant’
Neil Barofsky, former special inspector general for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, described the Farkas case in a Feb. 14 letter to President Barack Obama as “the most significant criminal prosecution to date” that arose from the financial crisis.
“If there had been a criminal referral, Farkas would have gone to jail in 2002,” William Black, who served as deputy director of the Federal Savings and Loan Insurance Corp. during the S&L crisis of the 1980s, said in an interview.
As I said, there was so MUCH fraud going on at a scale never before seen, that it will take time to prosecute all the perps.
“If there had been a criminal referral, Farkas would have gone to jail in 2002,” William Black, who served as deputy director of the Federal Savings and Loan Insurance Corp. during the S&L crisis of the 1980s, said in an interview.
And once again, I’m going to recommend William K. Black’s book, The Best Way to Rob a Bank is to Own One. It’s about control fraud, which is the act of gaining control of a company for the purpose of looting it. Lotta that during the S&L crisis of the 1980s.
IMHO, control fraud is at the root of a lot of our housing bubble-related problems. Kudos to Dr. Black for keeping the heat turned up.
The only way to deal with control fraud is regulation. Only way. Someone has to run the things, therefore there will always be someone who has the opportunity.
On, in my agency, when someone finds evidence of fraud we refer it to the folks who specialize in dealing with fraud. Why? Because we are public servants and we don’t get bonuses based on stock prices or amount of business captured or anything like that. It is the private sector style bonuses that incentivize people to hide the fact that their organization has been defrauded.
Control fraud we have the mother of all control fraud going on.
The elites have gained control of the US gov and are looting it.
2%?
Bank of America Settles Claims Stemming From Mortgage Crisis
By NELSON D. SCHWARTZ and ERIC DASH
Published: June 29, 2011
Just how much will it cost the big banks to atone for the mortgage mess?
Bank of America announced Wednesday that it would take a whopping $20 billion hit to put the fallout from the subprime bust behind it and satisfy claims from angry investors. But for its peers, the settlements may just be starting.
Heavyweight investors that forced Bank of America to hand over billions to cover the cost of home loans that later defaulted are now setting their sights on companies like JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup and Wells Fargo, raising the prospect of more multibillion-dollar deals.
The $8.5 billion settlement on $424 billion worth of mortgages suggests that 2 percent of Countrywide’s loans may have been underwritten or serviced improperly. A much bigger segment of those mortgages — about a quarter — are either in default or severely delinquent now. Bank of America attributes many of the foreclosures and defaults to the downturn in the economy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/30/business/30mortgage.html - -
“The $8.5 billion settlement on $424 billion worth of mortgages suggests that 2 percent of Countrywide’s loans may have been underwritten or serviced improperly.”
That 2 percent number appears laughably low, even if you include non-bubble-era loans.
“Bank of America attributes many of the foreclosures and defaults to the downturn in the economy.”
Buying the disaster that was Countrywide had nothing to do with it? The combination of the housing bubble and rampant fraud guaranteed massive losses no matter what happened to the economy which was itself destined to collapse.
Will BofA ever come clean about why they really purchased Countrywide?
“Bank of America attributes many of the foreclosures and defaults to the downturn in the economy.”
Oh, puh-leeze. Enough with “The Economy” as an excuse. You just don’t want to admit that your corporate management sucks.
Buying the disaster that was Countrywide had nothing to do with it? The combination of the housing bubble and rampant fraud guaranteed massive losses no matter what happened to the economy which was itself destined to collapse.
Will BofA ever come clean about why they really purchased Countrywide?
Speaking as someone who was on the HBB back when BofA purchased Countrywide in ‘07, I can say that we were scratching our collective heads over this one.
It was one of those acquisitions that we just couldn’t figure out. Sort of like Wachovia buying Golden West. That one stumped us too.
Panick prevention mode
BOA guarnateed that purchase was in their interest. ie if you buy it we will open a flood gate of easy money for you, if you don’t you’re next on the chopping block and as CEO we may take you to court for fraud.
I do remember stories of paulson and others threatening the CEO
I do remember stories of paulson and others threatening the CEO
Would that CEO have been Mozillo? Or are you referring to the CEO of the Bank of America?
I’ve just ordered a new schadenfreude meter that goes up to “11″.
” Bank of America attributes many of the foreclosures and defaults to the downturn in the economy.”
I attribute many of the foreclosures and defaults to the $400K loans that were given to people who made $30k for houses that were worth $150k which caused the downturn in the economy.
Countrywide gave my wife 300k to purchase a condo for 380k; now worth 150k. She was a grocery clerk at the time; P/T! But hey; everyone thought she was good for it, so it was triple A good! Oh yeah, she hasn’t had the money to pay in 1.5 years. Being a p/t checker means $600/month paychecks; so should she try for a HAMP loan and adjust the payment down from $2200 to $200? The underwriters never even looked at her job nor did she have to provide any income figures the first time around; no doc loans were like that, I guess. But we figure HAMPing w the bank is a waste of time seeing how nobody would lend her anything on a less than 10k/yr income. On the other hand, we are looking to buy time and that can be cheap.
Never heard of a no doc loan where you don’t have to at least state an income. Usually the difference is you don’t have to provide any documentation to prove it. What was entered in the monthly income field on the application? I’d be shocked if they didn’t at least ask what your income was. Was it left blank or did the mortgage person fill something in? Did your wife sign the application?
Don’t mean to be so inquisitive, but these are always the questions I have for people when they talk about no doc loans. I know you’ve told your story many times on here so my apologies for asking to hear it again.
I can’t answer for Mike, obviously, but I can provide another story. My uncle’s sister-in-law had a nodoc loan. She was a perfect candidate for it. Moving from a fairly large city to a much more rural area. She had significant experience as an accountant. Her skill set was unusual and in demand in the area she was moving to and she was moving to be closer to family. Her plan was to work as a temp accountant (having looked into it already) until she found a company that she liked and get them to hire her full-time. (By the way, that is exactly what happened.)
However, in the transition time, she needed a place to live. She didn’t want a year long lease and short term leases were hard to find. Living in my uncle’s basement with the kid’s toys was not a good fit. She was as sure as she could be that she would stay in the area long term, so she bought a condo. It was easily affordable on the salary she expected as a temp and would be even easier to afford once she got hired full time, but when she got the mortgage, she didn’t have any income. She had a former income and an anticipated income, but no job.
It worked. It is a very, very unusual situation.
Polly, thanks for the story. Agreed that is a reasonable use of a no doc loan, but didn’t your uncle’s sister-in-law have to enter an income on the mortgage application? I’m assuming she entered her expected income? My point is that just because it is a no doc loan doesn’t mean they don’t even ask what your income is. You still have to put a number in the box, but the difference is they don’t verify it. So you can make up a number that has no basis in reality (in other words, lie), but that’s on you if you choose to do so. And technically I think they could charge you with mortgage fraud because even on a do doc loan you still sign a statement saying all of the information on the application is true to the best of your knowledge. If you knowingly provide a false income (or sign an application where the broker entered a false income) I think you’ve committed mortgage fraud.
I’m asking this because I refinanced a house with a no doc loan, but I still had to enter an income. I entered my actual income and the advantage was I didn’t have to provide any additional documentation to prove it. The rate was the same either way (which is a reminder of how screwed up it was for a while there) so I figured I’d choose the easier process.
I don’t honestly know if she had to write anything down. If they had asked for current income, she would have had to put down zero, though probably something larger than that if it was just asking for what her income was going to be that year. I just know that it was a no doc and that she was unemployed at the time.
Mortgage broker literally black lined questions regarding job or income. on my wife’s application, including her income information. I kid you not. Large portion got to be left blank or marked N/A. True NINJA loan being offered by American Home Mortgage Services. Must have been fly by night because the loan company was sold to CW two months in.
Although proving she already had paid off home(we owned a house in Utah at the time) was something she had to do for the underwriters; she would not have qualified without the Asset.
Also, the mortgage servicers started charging PMI even though she put 20% down. Our mortgage broker got that fixed for us. Our large down payment and no need for PMI must have been the exception during this time. Also not very many more loans got approved like this as it was pushing the end of “sub-prime” Not that they have gotten that much stricter, but applicants do seem to need a decent income these days.
Interesting. I always assumed “no doc” loans all worked the way mine did. Had no idea they had mortgages where you didn’t have to even state your income. Learn something new every day. Thanks for the info!
Home-price index rises, but more declines forecast
By ALEJANDRO LAZO
Los Angeles Times
Last week, for instance, the foreclosure data firm RealtyTrac Inc. reported that foreclosure filings in the U.S. declined 2 percent in May from April and plummeted 33 percent from May 2010. Many foreclosures appear to be on hold until regulators and major banks conclude settlement discussions stemming from faulty foreclosure practices that will probably change the way homes are repossessed in the U.S.
When those negotiations are settled and banks revamp their processes and begin foreclosing again, some analysts are predicting further pressure on prices starting later this year.
“That is a very big wild card … how quickly these foreclosures are released on the housing market, and that is a difficult thing to predict,” Chen said. “We do expect foreclosures are going to rise over the next several quarters with the fastest pace occurring toward the end of this year.”
Christopher Thornberg, principal of Beacon Economics, doesn’t expect prices to fall further. The April 2009 bottom appears to be more or less where prices will probably stay until the excess supply of homes on the market is bought and the jobs engine creates new demand, he said.
“We have too much supply and not enough demand; the market found a level that fixes that, and until we start to eat up some of that supply and demand starts to grow, you are not going to see any big change here, simple as that,” Thornberg said. “It is going to take a couple years.”
http://www.kansas.com/2011/06/28/1912726/home-price-index-rises-but-more.html - -
pretty good CBS news coverage lat bight…finally.
Yes, I watched CBS News last night to check out the new guy — it’s like the housing Gods are leading me to relevant news. That one guy was very forthcoming about the shadow inventory.
Here’s the next thing to discuss: this shadow inventory exists because of the first leg down and the first round of paperwork. How many millions of homes will join the shadow inventory, when shadow inventory round one gets priced into the market?
How many millions of homes will join the shadow inventory, when shadow inventory round one gets priced into the market?
….and how many more than that when the next acceleration of lay-offs begins?
Word is spreading around the blogosphere that numbers now indicate we’re back in recession. Guess we’ll have confirmation by Fall.
Malloy seeks changes in worker pensions and benefits and asks for other powers
Ken Dixon, Staff Writer
Updated 11:50 p.m., Wednesday, June 29, 2011
HARTFORD — Gov. Dannel P. Malloy on Thursday will ask the General Assembly to endorse wide-ranging expansions of his power to make up for the rejection of $1.6 billion in union concessions.
Malloy wants to suspend existing state law in order to privatize some services; double the amount he is allowed to cut from individual budget line items; and set the scene for about 5,500 layoffs.
Another provision would end the inclusion of overtime payments in calculating employee pensions, starting in 2017, when the current 20-year deal on benefits and insurance expires. The legislation would also limit state employees to 10 sick days per year.
http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Malloy-seeks-changes-in-worker-pensions-and-1445644.php - -
“Another provision would end the inclusion of overtime payments in calculating employee pensions, starting in 2017″
Why do they always have to kick the can further down the road. Let’s start the program in 2012. There would be such a crowd trying to get out the door at one time, and people are waiting to fill those jobs. You’ll get lots of votes from those waiting in the wings.
Because there is a binding agreement in place until 2017. Whoever agreed to a 20 year deal is an idiot (probably a large group of idiots, actually), but that doen’t mean they can break it just because they want to.
“would end the inclusion of overtime payments in calculating employee pensions, starting in 2017″
What where they thinking at the time of implementing such thing?
“What where they thinking at the time of implementing such thing?”
Probably got it from CA. Retirement here in CA was based solely on regular pay. Law enforcement unions (don’t remember the year) sued the counties to have overtime pay, uniform pay, etc included in their final calculation of retirement pay. The 9th circuit(out of SF) awarded them the pay add-ons. To add insult to injury, most law enforcement retirement pay was based on you high one year so many officers would take all the overtime they could get to pad their retirement. I knew of one officer in SD whose base pay was $56K running up the final salary to $130K. He retired rather well before becoming a security guard.
Good thing the Fireman’s Association never caught on to this idea!
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-30/jpmorgan-scores-victory-for-repeat-offenders-jonathan-weil.html
One kleptocracy, under God.
You have problem with Corporate Communist Capitalism©®™, comrade?
Yesterday in the mail I received a little letter from my bank urging me to take out a mortgage with them. They even sent me a coupon for $250 off the origination fee if I completed an application by October 30 of this year. This rather distrubed me in several ways:
1. Coupon only good for 3 months? They’re trying to rush me.
2. I haven’t bought a house, so I don’t know these things. How much is an origination fee, that they can take $250 off of it?
3. Just the term “origination” annoys me. So i guess they don’t hold the loan; they just originate it. Do they securitize my loan within 30 days, or do they have the grace to wait 60 days before selling me and future off to Skank of Amerika for a tidy fee?
This was one of those community banks that I “moved my money” to, and even they are desperate. My workplace belongs to a larger government-based credit union. I’m thinking of opening an account there just to be able to apply for a mortgage with them (my time frame is about a year). I’ll keep my community bank for the cash.
“This was one of those community banks that I ‘moved my money to’ …”
And now that they have your money and your business they are trying to exploit you.
Typical.
From a business perspective.
It is rather difficult to get a customer by selling them a product or service for the first time. Most businesses assume that after the first time it is relatively easy to sell them more products or services on an ongoing basis. Every business does this? It’s called repeat business. Businesses have to play the numbers game and usually a percentage of customers will buy again and again. Customers also feel that attention is being paid to them and this makes them feel important.
From a predator’s perspective.
Lure the new customer into your confidence by offering him some sort of incentive and then extract from him knowledge of his strengths, weaknesses, faults and desires, then take advantage of this knowledge to benifit yourself at his expense.
Does he have a problem handling money? Yes? Then get him hooked on using a credit card and keep him maxed out on it. Talk him into cashing out the equity in his house. Convice him he should buy an annuity or do a reverse mortgage.
Let no dollar escape.
Yep the business model is to sell more services to more people more often at higher prices all the while making them feel special and important.
Customers cash is king
The “origination fee” could be called an application fee. Last time I was getting a mortgage, this fee was waived by Wells Fargo. I would guess that the fee is equal to the coupon they sent you.
Origination fees are always negotiable. But usually if the origination fee is higher then the rate will be lower and vice versa. Just about all upfront fees can be effectively rolled into the mortgage via a higher rate. That’s why it’s so important to understand what all the fees are when comparing rates.
there is nothing sacred or innicent about local community banks. I use one but they are knee deep in bubble defaults too.
CU’s aren’t much better. They brag about low REO stats and such, but they sell their loans off the Fannie and Freddie, too. I remember seeing 125% LTV signs during the bubble, and my CU denied it. I did some digging on my CU, and one of their employees spilled the beans to me about how they unload their loans and make the fees.
from yesterday:
“We clearly have experienced much different construction costs for residential development. Any other expert care to chime in? Charlie Tango?”
Things are changing, in town (Mammoth Lakes) construction costs are ~$400 / sq ft but the few homes being built cost millions.
Mono country just dropped their DIF fees. We haven’t seen 2011 permits pulled yet that require the new green code but one house i’m working on got sprinklers due to its size with its 2010 permit. Sprinkler cost were $25k.
Now our town is bankrupt and if by some miracle it dissolves and the county’s lack of DIF fees come into play building in town will become much cheaper but still unafordable.
prices on lots need to come down still.
I don’t know where costs are out in the rural areas but its been 30 years since I’ve heard someone claim $40 / sq foot. The low end has been replaced by pre-fabs.
Mono county costs are high due to high snow load and high seismic requirements.
It looks like CA has a very long way to fall. A very long way.
RAL
No doubt you’re right. The Ca Foreclosure Prevention Act extends the process out another 90 days. What the hell does that accomplish in the long run?
A friend built a 2000 ft2 house in 2007 for $35/ft2 in Jacksonville. Not fancy but solid. He was his own general contractor. The number doesn’t include fees or the cost of the land.
in town (Mammoth Lakes)
Looks like there are plentiful of wealthie$ homeS in vincinty of their favorite playground$: Tahoe / Carmel / La Jolla / Malibu… etc, etc, etc. Now for the peon-worker support staff that also need shelter in close proximity, that’s the $40 / sq foot question.
Job$!, Job$!, Job$!
Here’s a CA example of what happens when the “playground youth” of America get bored or can’t find Dad’$ change jar / or maybe it’s just a lack of summer Job$!? :
Four Atascaderans caught in Cookie Crock caper:
Four Atascadero teens were arrested June 22 after they allegedly stole beer and liquor worth $124.55 from the Cookie Crock Market in Cambria.
Darren Cody Edmunson, 18, Joshua Arthur Bradshaw, 18, Timothy George Aragon, 19, Anthony Leonard, 18, were arrested on suspicion of burglary and conspiracy, all felonies, according to the San Luis Obispo County Sheriff’s Department.
“When someone enters a building with the intent to steal, and is also accompanied by others, it is considered a felony burglary and conspiracy, as opposed to a simple
shoplift,” sheriff’s department spokesman Rob Bryn stated in a news release about the arrests.
Four of them and they only got $125 worth of booze? They must have gone for the cheap stuff.
The “arrested on suspicion” part bothers me.
Just a way of not convicting in the article. Not a very artful turn of phrase, but you can’t say they were arrested because they did it. Too early in the legal process.
True. It just always bothers me when I hear that phrase. So much of our rights have gone away and are continuing to go away.
Thanks for the thoughts CT.
My only addition is that one major reason why land costs are so high is because the approval process in CA is so difficult. We are working on the entitlement of a piece of land that has been in the general plan for the adjacent city as planned residential for something like 20-30 years.
Despite the land being PLANNED residential, the consultants/developer has been working on getting the plan in place with the City now for about a decade.
Land prices, like everything else are set by supply and demand. While there is seemingly plenty of land as you fly over CA, the amount of land that you can buy to build on is severely limited due to the entitlement processes (some cities in the Central Valley are easier and more pro-growth, as you get adjacent to the coast, you further need to deal with the Coastal Commission, which is an entirely different problem).
As an example of the madness, when Jerry Brown was AG of CA, he sued the City of Stockton on their general plan. As part of the settlement between the City, the State, and the Sierra Club, the City has added more requirements for builders to show the impact of the development on the environment. In addition to the usual (traffic, wetlands, other biological, etc.), developers now need to do a greenhouse gas study in the City of Stockton. And the City of Stockton needs to limit growth on the outskirts in favor of pushing more infill development.
These added requirements (which will come to a CA town near you), not only add hurdles for the developer to get over vis-a-vis the City, but they add additional things that no-growth groups can sue on. CEQA lawsuits (California Environmental Quality Act) are commonplace to slow development–claims that CEQA wasn’t properly followed. The more complex the laws surrounding land use, the more areas that no growth groups can point to as deficient (groups like the Sierra Club, who joined Jerry Brown in suing Stockton).
Other cities have for a long time implemented their own slow growth rules–limiting the number of permits issued each year. If you are a builder wanting to build, you need to get in line. We were involved with such a project starting in about 2003 where we were approved to build a number of homes, but regardless of demand, we were only allowed to build about a third of the homes each year. Approved lots without a building permit allocation were certainly worth less than ones with an allocation (not worthless, as you simply needed to get in line).
Other cities fancy themselves architects/landscape experts. You want to build the subdivision? Plant more trees…and they need to be big trees, that look good now, not 5 years from now. Bigger parks, bike trails, etc. Design guidelines drive construction costs. The list goes on, and I digress from my main point.
As long as the entitlement process is so difficult, zoned/approved residential land will be constrained, acting as a barrier to land price reductions.
This may not at all be applicable in other states with easier approval processes, but it is the reality in California.
Be prepared for a new reality in CA. It will happen. And when the rug gets yanked out from the California Housing Inflation System, the deluded house owners will go “boo hoo hoo”.
When you say “sprinkers due to its size” I’m assuming you are referring to an anti-fire sprinker system as opposed to one that waters the grass. Where I live, any house greater than 3500 sq ft requires an anti-fire sprinkler system.
Starting January 2011, all homes built in CA require sprinklers.
So, you’re only dealing with water damage, and not fire damage. So you can haggle with your homeowner insurance? I can see it in commercial, but residential? Our former home was over 3,500 sq ft, and I can envision the water damage. Is it for loss of life risk or your neighbor’s house going up in flames too?
I recall hearing a freakonomics podcast episode talking about fire deaths, and how they are down dramatically for various reasons over the decades, and that there is a push to make deaths by fire drop even further (to zero).
Sprinklered homes was a major way to do that, according to the proponents. I imagine that sprinklers in your home might actually decrease the cost of a homeowner’s policy to some extent, but the real question is how often a sprinkler going off is a false alarm vs saving a home.
There is a significant push in this country to over-engineer everything, and not all overengineering is bad, but much is simply not worth the cost. I am reminded of this whenever I see the devastation in a third world country after an earthquake vs. an effect of the same magnitude earthquake in a developed country.
On a much smaller scale, I’ve also been reading about the proposed automatic shutoff technology for table saws. A guy invented a device that essentially has a brake installed for a table saw with a circuit running through the blade. The electrical conductivity of skin completes the circuit and stops the blade. Long story short, the guy can shove a hotdog into a spinning table-saw blade and the hotdog survives with a small scratch. In any event, the guy is lobbying hard for the technology to be required for table saws, to eliminate lost fingers/limbs, and the medical cost and lost productivity that comes from such lost fingers/limbs. The tool manufacturer industry is lobbying hard against it, because it would cost another $100 per saw to include the technology (or presumably something like it), and hurt consumers who presumably are safe users of saws and can’t afford the additional $100.
Is that $100 cost per table saw worth the additional safety, and saved medical costs?
Is the additional $5k-$15k in sprinklers for all homes worth the additional safety?
Are the increased seismic codes worth the additional safety?
Ultimately, I would love for all these choices to be left to the consumers. However, when the public picks up the tab for the disability and health costs of an uninsured carpenter, or fire safety, or FEMA, there is a public interest.
I’m glad I’m not a politician. It would be mind-numbing to deal with the arguments on both sides, and I presume in many cases incredibly difficult to separate the real benefit and real cost from those cost/benefits that the lobbyists are trying to cram into your head.
Is that $100 cost per table saw worth the additional safety, and saved medical costs?
Yes. Reason for my answer: I know people who’ve lost fingers in these things.
If I’m buying a table saw, there is no way I would buy one without that device, regardless of cost. In other words, if I couldn’t afford the table saw with the device, I wouldn’t buy the table saw.
However, should we force everyone else to buy the safety device? It’s easy for me to say yes, since I don’t want to need to pay for other’s healthcare/disability, but I’m not scraping by on a semi-employed carpenter’s pay.
It is even more complicated than that. There are guards on the blades. Almost as effective as the high tech version for keeping your fingers attatched if you leave them in place and they are very cheap. But people take the guards off because they make it slightly harder to use the saw.
“in town (Mammoth Lakes) construction costs are ~$400 / sq ft”
Holy cow! We had two builders quote us $150/sf and we thought THAT was ridiculous.
Is this what becomes of suburban motels that no longer attract tourists? A modern version of the old urban “flop-house”.
Overnight fire destroys 430-room motel one mile from Disney
KISSIMMEE, Fla. - It was quite the scene Sunday night when an Orlando-area motel caught fire and spread throughout the 430-room building. The fire burned all night long and fire crews continued to put out hot spots Monday afternoon.
More than 150 people were inside the Vacation Lodge in Kissimmee when the fire started around 10:30, but everyone made it out safely. The Osceola County Fire Department reports that eight people were taken to the hospital with minor injuries, including two firefighters.
In recent years, the motel has turned into more of an extended-stay facility. Most of the people who stay there, live there.
Third-world country, baby!!
We have one of those near us. Used to be a lovely, pleasant place to stay for people thinking of buying in the retirement community, or families visiting gramps and gran. Now it’s a flophouse with bedbugs and other problems. Hey, but if you’ve got cash, you can pay $39.00 a nite.
More like a Hooverville with a pool. Who knows how many places like this have sprung up.
These places have been in business for many years. I recall seeing them in 2007 in Ohio. Usually it’s a small 20-30 room motel from the 50’s, the kind that sprang up by the roadsides of the older long roads, like Route 40, Route 20, Route 1 (east coast). When the superhighways went through and the Hamptons and Red Roof inns took over, it was either cater to the low crowd or go BK.
Yep. Pay by the night, week, or month. Utilities, cable, cheap furniture included. The SROs of flyover.
I stayed at one of these Stage Coach Inn types for a couple of months in ‘95. Old guy running the place, cut off from the main raod by progress. It was clean and comfortable. Mostly construction guys, paying by the week. Pickup trucks and baseball bats. I’ve never felt safer. Every time I brought the old guy a Guiness my rent went down $10/wk.
“Third-world country, baby!!”
Thank the progressives and other fringe nuts.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-gangs
How Wachovia laundered $387 billion in Sinaloa Cartel drug money and got off with a “settlement” equal to 2% of their ill-gotten gains and no criminal charges, naturally.
The good news is …
…we are now (finally) beginning to hear about all this crap.
And the bad news is, the vast majority of the sheeple just don’t care.
Yeah, well as Charles McKay noted, men go crazy in herds and regain their senses slowly and one by one.
The sheeple are slowly coming to their senses and the MSM is slowly beginning to reflect this.
The MSM is losing circulation and viewership as they have lost all credibility as sources of real news and real truth. At some point they can no longer afford to keep touting the PC corporatist propaganda line if they are to keep any subscription base at all.
I credit blogs like this one with providing a vital public service long since abdicated by the corporatist media: providing unfiltered news, commentary, and insightful analysis that informs and educates. I hope readers will dig deep and send Ben a much-deserved contribution that corresponds to how much they have benefited from having this site as a bastion of truth and light amidst all the MSM and NAR dissembling.
These blogs are great but they are not a subsitute for investigative journalism. We amplify the small amount of truth getting out and slam the propaganda.
Wikileaks has the potential to shine some light, me suspects that’s why they have used every trick in the book to shut it down.
Is there any doubt, measton?
I think people do care.
I think most throw up their arms and say I can’t affect the situation.
Sammy aren’t you the one that says you don’t vote. How are people to change the situation. Things aren’t bad enough to riot yet, although my guess is that those times are coming faster than people think.
No, I never said I don’t vote. I actively supported Ron Paul in 2008 and wrote in his name on my ballet rather than vote for either of the two corporatist stooges the Republicrats put up. How are people to change the situation? Simple. If you voted for McCain or Obama or any other corporatist Republicrat candidate in the last election, find a way to reverse your lobotomy. Then lend your active support to the good guys out there (there are a few in both parties). Get involved in the political process rather than leaving it to the hacks and lobbyists. People who say “I can’t affect the situation” are the worst sort of moral cowards. You can at least TRY, dammit! I knew RP didn’t have a hope in hell of getting elected President in ‘08, but I still wanted the plutocrats and their Republicrat hirelings to know there is a tiny but committed minority out there who refuse to ignore their responsibilities as citizens of the Republic.
I credit the Sinaloa Cartel for bankrolling some of the world’s most insane accordion players.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xxpt8o23k8
Amazon ends deal with 25,000 California websites
Jan Norman ~ Orange County Register
Gov. Jerry Brown has signed into law California’s tax on Internet sales through affiliate advertising which will immediately cut small-business website revenue 20% to 30%, experts say.
The bill, AB 28X, takes effect immediately. The state Board of Equalization says the tax will raise $200 million a year, but critics claim it will raise nothing because online retailers will end their affiliate programs rather than collect the tax.
Amazon has already emailed its termination of its affiliate advertising program with 25,000 websites. The letter says, in part:
(The bill) specifically imposes the collection of taxes from consumers on sales by online retailers - including but not limited to those referred by California-based marketing affiliates like you - even if those retailers have no physical presence in the state.
We oppose this bill because it is unconstitutional and counterproductive. It is supported by big-box retailers, most of which are based outside California, that seek to harm the affiliate advertising programs of their competitors. Similar legislation in other states has led to job and income losses, and little, if any, new tax revenue. We deeply regret that we must take this action.
Does the US Constitution apply in California?
Does the US Constitution apply ANYWHERE?
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-says-he-doesn-t-have-answer-whethe
Obama says he doesn’t have to answer whether War Powers Resolution is Constitutional. To our resident Obama apologists, please explain to me how this administration is any different than its predecessor when it comes to contempt for the Constitution and Bill of Rights. (Or anything else for that matter.)
In the Libya case? He’s not.
I want to know what Top Secret info the President has that he’s not telling us.
As I’ve said, the financial empires have brought us to the brink of WW3 and my guess is that it’s all our government can do to keep as tight a lid on it as possible.
Greenwald has a goo write up on it:
“the President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.”
Koh was confronted with candidate Obama’s 2007 statement that directly contradicts the White House’s current position, and Koh did the only thing he could do: insist that the Constitutional Scholar’s view back then were ”not legally correct” and was “too limited a statement,” and that he’d be “very surprised if that’s [Obama's] position” today.
http://mobile.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/06/29/koh/index.html
“Does the US Constitution apply ANYWHERE?”
Somebody let me know when they find out. I want to move there, where ever it is.
Scandinavia.
Oh yeah, I forgot. Everywhere they don’t like Americans anymore.
I used to have an affiliate program. (It was for something that I no longer sell, so don’t go trying to sign up, okay?)
I found that, with very few exceptions, that affiliate sellers weren’t terribly motivated to sell anything. I derived very little of my income from them.
I can’t help thinking that, for all but a few retailers, affiliate programs don’t produce that much revenue. And I’ve noticed a lot fewer of them than, say, five or seven years ago.
My experience is the same.
Same with ads and referrals.
I’ve found that ads are a good place to throw away money. Have found very few good clients that way.
As for referrals, there seems to be this belief that if you’re only good enough, friendly enough, whatever, that this endless shower of referrals is going to rain down on you. This belief is especially prevalent in my corner of the world — which is the “lone eagle” soloist.
Sorry, folks, but people have lots of other things to talk about besides you and your business. Oh, yes, you could bribe them for referrals, but sooner or later, someone to whom you’ve been referred will figure that out. And they’ll be kind of miffed that their friend Joe got a kickback from you.
Furthermore, you have no control over when referrals happen, or if they do. And they might be for the sort of work that you don’t do. Or do very well.
‘Nuff said on referrals.
Pictionary.com
li·ar\ Show Spelled - Re·al·tor
–noun
a person who sells real-estate.
Origin:
before 950; Middle English lier, Old English liar.
See lie1 , -ar1
Use liar in a Sentence
The Realtor said it`s a buyer`s market.
Search liar on the Web
http://www.realtor.org/ - 39k -
—Synonyms
falsifier, perjurer, prevaricator.
Informative!
I find etymology fascinating.
“I find etymology fascinating.”
I’ll bet you say that to all the girls.
etym and smile
Yun
Pronounced: You un.
Origin:
A verbal corruption first observed late 1700s in the Western Pennsylvania Frontier.
Use in a sentence:
I’m the head of a sales syndicate and I’m here to help Yun.
Blue - Very well done. LOL
When did the housing bubble begin?
I don’t believe Case-Shiller data gives the complete picture, mostly because it is same house tracking. I suggest that this boom (bubble) started when the boomers were born 60 years ago. Suburbia started. House size went on a steady increase. Cement ponds and all that. Case-Shiller does not pick up any of these trends up in house price.
Check out the Census records on inflation adjusted house prices back to 1940. The 70s were a blast!
It’s been quite the party, my whole life.
Why is an interesting question.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/census/historic/values.html
Huh. Interesting.
I just wish they didn’t start monkeying with how CPI was calculated, so we could actually see a true inflation adjustment.
Realtors are prevaricators.
Beware the Realtorwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Originator bird, and shun
The frumious Refisnatch!”
More genius!
Muggy
Very creative.
You, Jeff Sat., and Blue, could have written “Invictus”.
Jobless Claims in U.S. Fall, Top Estimates
June 22 (Bloomberg) —
More Americans than forecast filed applications for unemployment benefits last week, indicating little progress in the labor market.
Jobless claims fell by 1,000 to 428,000 in the week ended June 25, Labor Department figures showed today in Washington. The median forecast of economists in a Bloomberg News survey called for a drop to 420,000. The number of people on unemployment benefit rolls and those getting extended payments declined.
We can always see a drop in claims vs the previous week’s upwardly revised number, if our revisions are strategically large enough. I love this country!
According to Bloomberg, the Labor Department had to estimate results for six states, which is a sizable number, due to what it says were “technology issues” which must mean computer problems.
Translation: the actual number is probably much worse, but we can’t spook the markets. And let’s give a fond farewell to the 27,000 unemployed who exhausted their 99 week benefits during the past week and have now been dumped into the maw of the Great Uncounted Jobless who no longer exist in official unemployment statistics and are now bereft of even their $400 a week benefits lifeline. Stand by for the Obama Administration/Wall Street fluffers of CNBC and the other MSM “financial media” to drone the usual pablum of “these recoveries take time….”
Funny how they don’t seem to fret that 400K is the new normal.
It has been that way for longer than anyone can remember.
Going from one job to another I got off I95 at 45th St. in West Palm the other day to hit Burger King for 2 double cheeseburgers for lunch, about $3 when you drink water from home as I do. Anyway, there were 2 gentleman at the exit ramp light with their “Hungry Need Food for my Family” and ” Can`t Find Work Anything Will Help” signs. When I got to the drive through window (which was about 75 yards away as the crow flies or the unemployed walk) I asked “are you hiring?” the manager at the window said “Yes, all shifts”.
Probably have to pee in a cup to get hired at BK.
Most of the jobs are very parttime and pay minimum wage. Oldest daughter use to be a BK manager. She would get a lot of applications but very few were willing to actually work.
I once saw an urban guy throw off his apron and stalk out of a grocery store, apparently because bagging groceries was beneath him.
I also read that many of these non-workers have judgments against them, especially child support. They know that if they get a job, the local gov will discover where they live and that they have income, and will garnish child support. So they either don’t work or quit as soon as they see the deduction in their second or third paycheck.
While I’m a VERY firm believer in paying for child support, I also know you can’t work if you can’t afford food, shelter and commuting after they’ve taken the money from your $10hr job.
Which ultimately means you can’t pay your child support.
There are no variances allowed either.
And yes, fast food jobs are notorious for their unreliable hours and pay.
“I once saw an urban guy throw off his apron…”
Rage issues can make it difficult to stay employed.
“Urban guy”
You mean a guy who lives in the city versus a guy who lives in the country, right?
“You mean a guy who lives in the city versus a guy who lives in the country, right?”
Love it. Was thinking the same thing. What the heck is an “urban guy”???
An “urban guy” speaks “urban” and listens to “urban” music and likes the “urban” culture.
I once was urban. I slipped and became sub urban. You could see it in my eyes.
I’ve tried to be urban. Couldn’t pull it off so I married an urban woman instead. That didn’t work either as I think she became more like me than I did like her. Sigh. I’m out of ideas.
I think the income at the off ramp is better than at the BK. If 10 people per hour give you $5, that’s about 6 hours of minimum wage. And no boss to yell at you. Benefits are probably the same.
“More Americans than forecast filed applications….”
Here in Obamaland, we may be out of petroleum, out of cash, and out of ideas, but our reserves of unexpectedness remain damn near infinite.
And hope ‘n change floweth forth abundantly, yea verily….
That’s tough news for the unemployed. My experiences have been that 2H isn’t the best time to be out of work - the summer doldrums almost melt directly into the Holiday doldrums nowadays. Once I got very lucky in November, but that was 1999. Another spring, with all its inherent promise of opportunity is now past.
Don’t forget the post-holiday retail layoffs.
Oh no, more “austerity” I guess Italy will go up in smoke next. Good thing we have no such plans on this side of the pond. Print, damn-it, print!
Italy plans euro47 billion ($68 billion) austerity program to show markets it will cut deficit. Thursday June 30, 2011
ROME (AP) — The Italian government is planning a euro47 billion ($68 billion) austerity sweep to show financial markets and the European Union it is serious about balancing its budget.
The plan by Finance Minister Giulio Tremonti will be announced after a Cabinet meeting later Thursday.
Newspaper reports said the plan features new taxes on financial transactions, a supertax on SUVs, extending the public sector hiring freeze, cutting ministries’ budgets as well as cracking down on tax evasion.
The three-year-plan aims to bring the government’s budget deficit of 3.9 percent this year to near balance by 2014.
Ratings agencies have recently issued worrisome reports about Italy’s low growth and public debt, which, at around 120 percent of its GDP, is one of the highest in Europe.
“a supertax on SUVs, ”
Can’t argue with that one.
That’s one I can get behind in a big way.
Here SUVs get tax BREAKS.
(although that may have changed recently. can someone confirm this?)
Where is “here”? I’ve never heard of an SUV tax break. I’ve only heard of tax breaks for personal property purchased by businesses (deduct the cost in the first year)–which often went to large corporate vehicles (SUVs).
Oct. 1, 2003
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Hybrid/story?id=97505&page=1
Congress recently passed a tax bill, as proposed in President Bush’s economic stimulus plan, that offers a $100,000 tax credit for business owners who purchase any vehicle weighing 6,000 pounds or more when fully loaded.
Thanks. Intended to be for trucks.
Ended up being for Suburbans.
Yeah. A lot of folks created shell companies to take advantage of it as well.
Needless to say, the car companies loved it. Their net profit margin was huge on SUVs and loaded “light” trucks.
We liked the deduction here because it allowed easier tracking of deductions for replacing computers and the like. The usual limit of $25,000 for deducting personal property could be reached quickly if we were replacing a server in a particular year and a number of workstations, and tracking $5k of basis was a huge pain in the behind. Being able to deduct up to $75k of personal items was a welcome change, not necessarily because it spurred us to make more purchases, or buy corporate cars (there are none here). However, it eliminated our need to track the basis for computer workstation #5 and remember when we actually disposed of the hardware a few years later.
I do recall before the higher limit, we actually put off buying a computer or two from December until January of the following year because we were at the $25,000 limit and didn’t want to have to track basis, so in that regard, I suppose the change would have spurred us to move those purchases up.
It’s guys with bicycles and little sissy cars that have all the money. SUV drivers are broke.
And that’s why they’re SUV drivers are so hostile to us bicyclists. Something about our overall frugality — and our paid-for little bikies — that drives them right over the edge.
“It’s guys with bicycles and little sissy cars that have all the money. SUV drivers are broke.”
I’m saving five bucks a day by biking. That’s only 3 work weeks of biking 20 miles a day to pay for my new Gatorskin tire. Ugh. And what about sissy guys with bicycles? We are the richest!
“And that’s why they’re SUV drivers are so hostile to us bicyclists. Something about our overall frugality — and our paid-for little bikies — that drives them right over the edge.”
I blew away a big ol’ fat man smoking in an SUV today as I rolled through Sausalito and he was pissed! [Aside: be fat OR smoke. One oral fixation at a time, please]. Gunned his 8 banger engine at two us as he came over the line, hauling ass, rushing to get to a job that he more than likely hates. Good time!
MrBubble
‘And that’s why they’re SUV drivers are so hostile to us bicyclists. Something about our overall frugality — and our paid-for little bikies — that drives them right over the edge.’
I believe in karma to some extent. All those bozos in SUVs that have yelled at me when I was riding my bicycle will really love to fill up their gas tanks if gasoline goes past $5/gallon. Bill Paxton sums it up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY
Oh no, more “austerity” I guess Italy will go up in smoke next.
No sir. The crisis is contained. CNBC and Marketwatch said so.
Meanwhile, Italy takes in refugees from the North African “troubles”.
We can still sell our goods (SUV’s, etc.) to the Europeans, right, …….right?
I’ll post three DC area homes today:
First, the distressed little house the same Hispanic Levittown-ish area:
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4307-Mahan-Rd-Silver-Spring-MD-20906/37293974_zpid/#{scid=hdp-site-map-list-address}
Very cute and small. 0.22 acres (I think it’s on a hill)
4/2; 648 sq ft (again, impossible. There must be two bedrooms in the basement.)
Sold May 2006 $325K, now listing for $198K.
Next up, the ubiquitous townhome. There must be hundreds of these for sale in the area, all within $30K of each other:
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/18016-Queen-Elizabeth-Dr-Olney-MD-20832/37208319_zpid/#{scid=hdp-site-map-list-address}
3/2.5, 1070 sq ft
0.06 acre end unit.
Empty house, painted to flip. To be honest, this looks pretty nice.
Sold 10/96 $119K
Sold 11/05 $335K
Listed $230K.
Thirdly, the PUZZLE:
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/15408-Wembrough-St-Silver-Spring-MD-20905/37137252_zpid/#{scid=hdp-site-map-list-address}
This is a NICE house.
4/1.5; 1780 sq ft. 0.32 acres
Sold 5/2006 $465K
Listed $212K.
But, what does this mean?
Days 1-7, Offers will not be reviewed; Days 8-12, Offers ONLY from NSP buyers, Municipalities, Non-profit organizations and Owner-occupants will be reviewed; Days 13 forward, We will consider offers from all buyers. 4 bedroom, 1 full and 1 half bath single family on over a quarter acre. Hardwood floors and wall to wall carpet throughout. Large deck great for entertaining.…
Cna anyone help me out?
They would rather take a quick sale to cash toting government agencies. Mortgage slaves can get in line at the back.
“But, what does this mean? Days 1-7, Offers will not be reviewed; Days 8-12, Offers ONLY from NSP buyers, Municipalities, Non-profit organizations and Owner-occupants will be reviewed; Days 13 forward, We will consider offers from all buyers.”
NSP is Neighborhood Stabilization Program, supposedly to help low income folks become debt slaves thereby helping the neighborhood. I believe the date system is also an attempt by Fannie, Freddie, etc. to discourage agents from pocketing the listing and it allows folks who aren’t their family and friends to actually get a shot at submitting a bid.
I see this on a number of listings in my area. The NSP doesn’t seem too popular around here, so the end result usually appears to be either a handful of mostly fipper bids at the end of Day 13 or the listing sits for months with the now inapplicable wording remaining part of the description.
Days on Zillow: 37.
I should put in an offer…
Offer the scumbags a dime, two nickels and a quarter.
WBBR Bloomberg radio this morning-
Art Levitt(former SEC chair) is always the morning guest with Tom Keane. Levitt said housing is an unmitigated disaster and “nothing has been done about Fannie and Freddie”.
These two fraud machines need to be deep sixed along with the MID. No more delays.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8607616/Lloyds-Banking-Group-to-cut-15000-jobs-in-effort-to-save-1.5bn.html
Well looky here. The banksters are jettisoning staff, or more likely outsourcing it to places like India and Bangledesh.
Less oversight there, you know?
flanking move ahead of tax assault.
Teachers, civil servants among 750,000 on strike in UK
Unions protest $130 billion in cuts from public spending to reduce deficit that was swollen by bank bailouts. ~ MSNBC
LONDON — British teachers and civil servants went on strike on Thursday over plans to reform public-sector pensions.
Up to 750,000 public-sector workers — including driving examiners and customs officials — were expected to join the walkout, part of a growing wave of opposition to the Conservative-led government’s deficit-cutting regime of tax hikes, benefit curbs and spending cuts.
Mirroring protests across continental Europe against government-imposed austerity , the strike could be a taste of wider protests to come later this year.
Many schools across Britain were closed or classes disrupted and air passengers were expected to face delays because immigration officials were among the striking workers. Courts and government buildings were also affected.
The unions say the strike is just the start of a campaign of labor action on a scale unseen in Britain for three decades.
“On Thursday we will see hundreds of thousands of civil and public servants on strike,” said Mark Serwotka, leader of the Public and Commercial Services Union. “We fully expect to be joined by millions more in the autumn.”
I have a niece who is a school teacher in the UK. The pay is pretty mediocre comparable to what teachers in non union districts get in the USA. And the cost of living is higher too, I honestly don’t know how she and her family make ends meet.
Maybe they can become “estate agents”.
She actually had a pretty cushy job during the dot com bubble. When that went bye-bye, she and her husband both decided to become teachers, probably figuring that it was a “safe” if low paying job. Wrong again.
Wow..nowhere to run to, nowhere to hide.
They are also being joined by million of college students. you know, the ones who just had a huge tuition increase, yet no jobs to go with it.
Paging Maggie Thatcher
Didn’t some coal minter’s union try this in the 80’s?? How did that work out for the union??
minter’s should be miner’s - teach me to comment while listening to a lecture
Realtors Are Liars
Drink lots of wine!
GO DOW GO!
Wall Street Extends 3-Day Rally as Greece Votes, QE2 Ends - Reuters
The S&P 500 has gained more than 3 percent in its best three-day run in three months as the Greek parliament adopted austerity measures to avoid a debt default. Lawmakers were set to approve detailed austerity and privatization bills on Thursday.
Has anyone been keeping up with volume on the NYSE this week? Correct me if I’m wrong but the volume appears to be in the cellar - slow like Christmas Eve or the day after Thanksgiving.
It is the week before a holiday.
Understood, and the July 4th dip in volume is indeed noticeable in each annual chart for the past three years. Only in those years the lowest July 4th trough was still well north of half a billion shares, this week it appears lower still - yesterday especially so.
There was a piece in Zero Hedge about corporations buying their own stock in buybacks while insiders were busy selling. Something’s coming.
Speaking of 4th of July dips, I have noticed that the neighbors don’t buy the amounts of fireworks they used to purcahse in years past. I know we haven’t bought anything in almost 10 years.
One thing I do know. Even though “demand” for domestic fireworks is down, prices haven’t come down at all. The stuff is expensive as hell.
Federal emergency bungi-cord is inde$tructible! (just make sure the length is appropiate for the distance of one’s “financial” jump)
More Money for Struggling Homeowners:
by AnnaMaria Andriotis / Wednesday, June 29/ CNN Smartmoney
A new federal program is offering aid with a sweet kicker: It doesn’t need to be repaid.
The loans are interest-free. Payments go directly to the lender for a portion of the borrower’s monthly mortgage, including missed payments or past due charges. And when the assistance period — which runs for up to two years — ends, 20% of the loan is forgiven with each passing year. In other words, for qualified borrowers who stay in their home for at least five years after the assistance period and who don’t fall behind on their mortgage again, this money doesn’t have to be paid back.
“Payments go directly to the lender…”
Whew! It gets the better banking seal of approval.
It’s GOOD to be the Banksta!
http://www.gazette.com/news/shoplifter-120611-owner-liquor.html
There’s a good reason why Colorado Springs hasn’t seen any flash mob looting raids on local businesses.
While I hate shoplifters, I have serious reservations about letting this guy off the hook. The perp was running away when he shot him. I fail to see how that was justified as “self defense”. The punk just grabbed a bottle of vodka and ran away.
I saw in the story they said he’d been hit in the head leaving the store, and had been shot in a previous attack. Even taking into account what you’re saying, I can see how it might have been seen as nearly impossible to get a conviction in this case due to jury sympathy if nothing else.
No doubt. When crime gets out of hand in a community juries can be very sympathetic to someone like the store owner.
My only regret is that the perp survived. Business owners in this country have a tough enough time staying afloat without having to deal with constant anxiety over whether some punk is going to try to rip them off. The store owner got hit when he ran outside, which to me is just cause to ventilate whoever struck him. Kill one, send a message to a thousand other scumbags: don’t try it here.
I guess you folks haven’t read of the Ersland incident.
Basically, two robbers burst into a pharmacy in an armed robbery. The one is pointing a gun at the pharmacist. Pharmacist and customer take cover. Robbers begin looting store. Pharmacist steps out from behind cover, gun blazing, hits one, who drops. The other flees. Pharmacist pursues, doesn’t find, comes back. Shoots downed robber a second time.
And is convicted of first degree murder, and is awaiting sentencing.
http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-grassroots-effort-to-free-pharmacist-ersland-20110531,0,734534.story
Well, if the first guy was subdued then he wasn’t a threat anymore. I can understand that the Pharmacist was “unhappy” about being robbed at gunpoint, but if he came back and finished the guy off, then yes, it was murder. Had he killed him on the first shot, then no, it would have been self defense.
One of the things you learn in a CCW course is the concept of “stopping power.” That’s what you want in your ammo. It’s supposed to stop the assailant.
Yes, it’s true that the stopping could mean that the assailant ends up dead. But that’s not the goal.
“Just because we love each other doesn’t mean we’re right for each other.”
Emily Maynard Confirms Split With ‘Bachelor’ Brad Womack
Any parents in a marraige care to offer Emily some “long-term” suggestions?
I looked into the Rick Scott “two roofs” issue. I don’t think it’s a big deal, really. They stopped making the tile that he had the house built with, so he bought enough to make sure he could replace pieces lost to a hurricane. Perhaps the lesson he can take from this is that how you say something matters.
My wife’s family has a storage unit in Pinellas Park in a non-flood area, half for storage needs now with room for valuables during a hurricane. There are plenty of other reasons to dislike this guy, but he gets my thumbs up for preparedness.
“There are plenty of other reasons to dislike this guy, but he gets my thumbs up for preparedness”
Scott is reviled somewhat out of proportion to reality, IMO. Personally I think we’re better off with Scott than if we had Mr. Deer-in-the-Headlights McCollum, or even Sink, although I voted for her. But before I did, I voted for Scott in the primary just to get McCollum out of higher level Florida politics.
The state’s got problems, for sure, but I like that he’s deflating a lot of the bloat. I’ve lived here since 1979/1980. The eighties and nineties were the glory days for Florida. Seems like the bigger Florida govmint got, the worse things became.
I don’t like his pro-development stance, though.
One thing we need to cut is the surplus population.
“One thing we need to cut is the surplus population.”
And I may do my bit to contribute to that, if Western North Carolina lives up to my expectorations.
“if Western North Carolina”
I don’t have a lot of experience in N.C., but I *love* East TN. That area is my Plan C (A. Return to NY B. Stay in FL C. East TN).
Jim Kunstler (who preaches Peak Oil) has this overarching prediction that running out of gasoline will result in a gentler Mad-Max type scenario where everyone goes looking for the best land to homestead on. They will decide that the best place is the Middle South and will migrate there… only to be met by Christians with guns who will pay little attention the first commandment.
I’m not sure if the middle south is the best place to homestead. The climate is good but the soil is poor in many places.
the first commandment ? he wrote that? lol
“I don’t like his pro-development stance, though.”
I’m finding that most people here in Florida, regardless of political affiliation, would agree with this.
Hey, I don’t think I’ve ever asked you this: where are your favs in Pinellas?
“where are your favs in Pinellas?”
Haven’t been to Pinellas in a few years, actually. If you mean areas, my fave is Safety Harbor, followed by Tarpon Springs, then Gulfport and some of those areas around St. Pete Beach. If I HAD to live in Pinellas, I’d live in Safety Harbor, I think.
If you mean politicians, I don’t know much about ‘em.
“Surplus population”
See A Christmas Carol; Ebenezer Scrooge; Dickens, Charles; 1843.
Of course he’s prepared, he’s got the resources 99 percent of Floridians don’t have. There’s just something about the guy that is weird. I can’t quite put my finger on it. It’s like he’s Lex Luthor, but with a creepy look about him.
I’ll be brief:
By: Steve Kyler / HOOPSWORLD
The NBA Players believe this is simply a hard cap by a different name and believe it will decimate the middle class in the NBA.
The Owners want certain expenses related to franchise acquisition such as interest and depreciation costs deducted from revenues before they are split with players. The Players content its these costs, which owners brought on themselves with questionable financing, that have pushed teams to the losses they claim are bringing down the NBA.
The 11th Hour Is Here: At 12:01am EST the NBA’s Collective Bargaining Agreement will expire setting in motion a chain of events that will scar the NBA both publicly and privately and end up costing both the NBA and its Players untold millions in lost salary and revenue.
The general belief is that the Players will not counter the Owners’ latest proposal and the NBA will likely make a few minor concessions to say they tried to reach a deal and if the two sides cannot agree, there will be anarchy in the NBA.
“I’ll be brief:”
I’ll bet you say that to all the girls.
No, that would be my Big Bro’s term of endearment.
I haven’t been to a pro game of any kind since the 90s. The prices are ridiculous.
On another note, the phrase “anarchy in the NBA” brought to mind an old John Cougar Mellencamp song, “R-O-C-K in the USA”
A-anarchy in the NBA
A-anarchy in the NBA
A-anarchy in the NBA
An-an-an-anarchy…. in the NBA!
“I haven’t been to a pro game of any kind since the 90s. The prices are ridiculous.”
I used to go to an ocassional Major League Soccer game, but in recent years those have doubled in price.
Yet the local mediocre baseball team, the Rockies, gets pretty decent attendance.
NEW YORK (Reuters) - The rules of Treasury auctions may not sound like the stuff of high-stakes diplomacy. But a little-noticed 2009 change in how Washington sells its debt sheds new light on America’s delicate balancing act with its biggest creditor, China.
When the Treasury Department revamped its rules for participating in government bond auctions two years ago, officials said they were simply modernizing outdated procedures.
The real reason for the change, a Reuters investigation has found, was more serious: The Treasury had concluded that China was buying much more in U.S. government debt than was being disclosed, potentially in violation of auction rules, and it wanted to bring those purchases into the open - all without ruffling feathers in Beijing.
Treasury officials then worked to keep the reason for the auction-rule change quiet.
yahoo.com/u-caught-china-buying-more-treasuries-disclosed-123414719.html
China wants jobs and technology and will do anything including causing major inflation to get it.
“all without ruffling feathers in Beijing.”
Chuck Fina. Repudiate the debt.
two years ago
Gee, I wonder what happend two years ago in Treasury that would have brought about this hope and change …
Hey Cousin Jethro.
Have started the new song yet? “CrackHeadRealtor makes me smile”?
- Clipped from The Daily Ticker
~ Creating more U.S. manufacturing jobs has been at the forefront of Obama’s jobs agenda since he proposed to generate 2 million jobs by doubling exports by 2015 in his State of the Union address this year. But Steven Rattner, former special advisor to the President on the auto industry, says Obama may be pushing on a string.
“Stimulating more manufacturing jobs is a tough assignment….We are a developed country [and] we are competing against countries that are emerging,” he tells Aaron and Dan in the accompanying interview. “Our share of manufacturing as a percent of our economy, the number of jobs, has more or less been going steadily down for 40-50 years. It’s normal. It’s what happens when economies develop.”
At that Iowa event, Obama touted his administration’s role in creating 2 million manufacturing jobs in the last year and a half, but acknowledged the need to do much more.
“For a lot of Americans, those numbers don’t matter much if they’re still out of work, or if they have a job that doesn’t pay enough to make the mortgage or pay the bills,” Obama said. “So we’ve got more work to do…the problems that we developed didn’t happen overnight. We’re not going to solve them overnight either. But we will solve them.”
While not trying to “belittle” the importance of manufacturing, Ratter says the focus should be on industries that the U.S. can be most competitive in such as finance, entertainment, new media [and] digital media. “People equate manufacturing with high-paying jobs and they equate service businesses with low-paying jobs and that is now always the case,” says Rattner.
Ratter says the focus should be on industries that the U.S. can be most competitive in such as finance, entertainment, new media [and] digital media.
And what percentage of the US workforce can work in those “industries”, which are even easier to offshore than manufacturing?
I just finished reading Rattner’s book, Overhaul. It’s about his work with Team Car, which was charged with bringing GM and Chrysler out of the toilet.
I’ll agree with what everyone’s saying here about finance, entertainment, new media, and digital media. Even though I derive my living from the latter two. Here’s why:
All four things are dependent on the activity happening elsewhere in the economy. Finance, for example. It’s supposed to finance things, right? (I’ll leave that question hanging out there for a moment.)
Likewise, entertainment. Paid for with discretionary money.
New media and digital media? Well, despite the McLuhan pronouncement about the media being the message, the media need content. And lemme tell ya, the content isn’t coming from us. It’s created elsewhere in the economy.
“finance, entertainment, new media [and] digital media”
Useless, non-productive, “fluff” industries that contribute NOTHING tangible to a society.
We’re doomed. Seriously.
My thought as well.
Humans Are Greedy Predators.
Yeah, just ask the mud-dauber wasp whose nests I keep destroying. I think it got the message this time. Came by to check under the wicker table and found nothing but crumbled mud.
It’s all be sure that the republicants will nominate some retread dickweed,then wonder why they lost. Ron Paul has zero chance of being nominated, of that I am 100% sure. SOS wash,rinse and repeat. Keep voting the way you do America it’s be working wonders so far! Change you can see and believe in.
~ Fox News Poll: Romney Remains Top GOP Preference as Perry Draws Close Behind By Dana Blanton -June 29, 2011
While former Mass. Gov. Mitt Romney remains the preferred 2012 Republican presidential nominee, three rivals are close behind — including two who haven’t announced they are running.
In a Fox News poll released Wednesday, Romney received the backing of 18 percent of GOP primary voters. He’s followed by Texas Gov. Rick Perry at 13 percent, Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann at 11 percent and former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani at 10 percent. Perry and Giuliani have not declared their candidacies.
Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, also undeclared, is now in single digits at 8 percent support, and Texas Congressman Ron Paul garners the support of 7 percent.
All other candidates receive the support of 5 percent or less.
Ruck Fomney.
I agree, the fed loving wall street a$$ kissing bastard!
We already have one of those in the WH, and we’ll keep getting more of the same, because voters are smart!
I’m starting to worry that Palin won’t run. And that’s a real bummer because she’s hot and talks interestingly.
isn’t Bachmann just as interesting to you?
isn’t Bachmann just as interesting to you?
No, I don’t think so because Bachmann is bats&*t crazy/scary but Palin is more like a lovable dingbat.
While not trying to “belittle” the importance of manufacturing, Ratter says the focus should be on industries that the U.S. can be most competitive in such as finance, entertainment, new media [and] digital media. “People equate manufacturing with high-paying jobs and they equate service businesses with low-paying jobs and that is now always the case,” says Rattner
And why is yahoo news posting this guys opinion
ALBANY - President Obama’s former car czar Steve Rattner will fork over $5 million to the feds for his role in a massive state pension fund pay-to-play scandal.
In addition to paying the Securities and Exchange Commission, Rattner will be barred from working in the securities industry, a source with knowledge of the deal said.
The Daily News first reported last year the ties of Rattner and his now former firm, Quadrangle, to the widespread corruption scandal under disgraced ex-Controller Alan Hevesi. Quadrangle won $100 million in pension business in 2005 with the help of Hank Morris, a top adviser to Hevesi.
Our gov is lost
We have the best government money can buy.
ALBANY - President Obama’s former car czar Steve Rattner will fork over $5 million to the feds for his role in a massive state pension fund pay-to-play scandal.
I mentioned Rattner’s book, Overhaul, up above.
The book mentions the pay-to-pay scandal, but the way it was presented suggested that Rattner was legally forbidden from saying anything more than what he did.
Pissed Off Bastards…. they ultimately became The Hells Angels but they started off as something so simply succinct. Pissed Off Bastards.
We are the 21st century Pissed Off Bastards.
heh….an e-club on the HBB…. Ben’s Pissed Off Bastards. You got;
POB Jethro
POB Lingus
POB NYDisco
POB AlphaBastard
POB EcoBastard
POB Stucco
But I think I`m starting to like being pissed off. I don`t want to turn into Mother Teresa , I`d have to join NACA or something and fight for the rights of FB victims who live rent free in Mcmansions for years because someone put a gun to their head and made them sign for an 80/20 $500k mortgage on a salary like, well a salary like Mother Teresa`s salary. I would also have to start screaming about the fact that because of MERS, they don`t even know who owns the loan the poor FB hasn’t been paying for the last 3 or 4 years. Not to mention all of the tales of woe I would have to endure about job loss, dog cancer and FB`s amputated toes that happened doing yard work because he couldn’t afford to pay the illegal lawn care guy to take care of his lawn.
No it`s just to depressing to think about. I`ll just stay…
POB Jethro
Broadcasting from WDBT Deadbeat radio FM
And it`s a BEAUUUUUTIFUL day to withhold another mortgage payment in West Palm Beach, how many does that make? 38? 48? Ah you Deadbeats I love ya.
This one is goin` out to Bill down in Boca, Bill hasn’t made a mortgage payment in FIVE, that`s right count em 5 years. I tell ya Bill you`re an inspiration to all of us. Hang in there Bill and keep on stickin it to the man.
(STAY)
A-a-a-a-ah, just a little bit longer
(PLEASE)
Please, please, please, please
Tell me you’re gonna
Now, Bernanke don’t mind
And Obama don’t mind
If we have another year
So we`ll drink another beer, just
One more time
Oh, won’t you stay
Just a little bit longer
Please let me hear
You say that you will
Say you will
Won’t you stop your payments
Like miiiiine
Won’t you say that MERS is
A criieiiieiiime
(STAY)
Just a little bit longer
(PLEASE)
Please, please, please, please
Tell me you’re going to
Come on, come on, come on and …stay-yey-yey-yeh
Come on, come on, come on and stay-yey-yey-yeh
Come on, come on, come on and stay…
Come on, come on, come on…
lmao… POB Jethro.
“I can see housing coming everywhere downtown,” said James Philippone, who spoke during a Downtown Rising luncheon on Wednesday about converting the former Central Trust Bank building at 44 Exchange St. into 25 apartments. “Downtown is the place to be.”
$680 million: Total investment in projects under development or planned downtown (of which $344 million is private-sector dollars).
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20110630/NEWS01/106300329/Several-downtown-housing-developments-pipeline
Hey Blue, do people still say, “Rochester is ten years behind the rest of the country” up there?
Good grief. $680million in broken down rottenchester and theyre marketing this as “Downtown Rising”? How does that work when downtown is rotting and has been for 30 years?
Someones going to take a bath.
I don’t know what it is about downtown that promotes such wishful thinking. We sure have boatloads of such thinking here in Tucson. It’s as if believing in the comeback of downtown is some sort of religion.
Same here. All places are the same..meh. I guess they have to do *something* but they get so much local media coverage because, well, there’s not much else going on here.
“It’s as if believing in the comeback of downtown is some sort of religion.”
Tell me about it. Even our podunky burb has a downtown redevelopment committee, and they always have grand plans, few of which ever see the light of day.
Here in Tucson, the downtown religion seems to be one of those things that just won’t go away.
From my perspective, downtown seems to be a perpetual work in progress. Which makes it into a wonderful photographic opportunity. (The link is to a blog post that I just did about downtown revitalization. And I just did a follow-up to that post.)
Ark. ice cream co. closing, lays off 200 workers
By ANDREW DeMILLO , 06.30.11
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. — Yarnell’s Premium Ice Cream announced Thursday that it has to lay off 200 workers and shut its doors after nearly 80 years in business because of a decline in ice cream sales and rising prices that it says has hit the industry hard.
The company announced it is stopping production indefinitely and told its workers that they will be paid through every day worked, but not beyond that. About 75 percent of the company’s workers are based at the Searcy headquarters. The rest are located throughout Arkansas, Tennessee and Mississippi.
Christina Yarnell, chief executive officer, said the company had considered other avenues for keeping the company afloat after “an extremely tough year for the ice cream industry in general.”
“However, we’ve been unable to obtain additional financing from our lenders or locate a buyer, and have come to the difficult decision that the appropriate course of action is to shut our doors,” she said in a statement released by the company.
it has to lay off 200 workers and shut its doors after nearly 80 years in business because of a decline in ice cream sales and rising prices that it says has hit the industry hard.
Thanks a lot Ben Barebacke..
“Ben Barebacke”
Thanks for this one! Love it.
“keeping the company afloat”
I could go for an ice cream float about now.
Damn you! Now I want one!
I have to go to the store tomorrow evening. I think I’ll pick up the ingredients for an ice cream float. Haven’t had one of those in a while.
Meh, I think they’re overated.
“It appears that the items were taken to sell and the proceeds used to repay money that Lisa borrowed from her father. Albert Yarnell II had sued Lisa in 2006 to collect the money, but the lawsuit was dismissed in 2008.
After Lisa filed her lawsuit in 2008, Albert Yarnell II filed a counterclaim against her in 2009, saying she still owed nearly $200,000 for defaulted loans to her father.”
LOL.
Debt destroys 80 year old business.
Oh HO! Well, well, well.
Christina Yarnell, chief executive officer, said the company had considered other avenues for keeping the company afloat after “an extremely tough year for the ice cream industry in general.”
Hasn’t it been “an extremely tough year” for most small biz, regardless of industry? Main St. continues to burn to the ground.
I’m meeting a LOT of cranky small business owners… at the bar, because they sure as heck aren’t calling me during the day.
Older Interns Signal Gloomy US Labor Market
30 Jun 2011 | By: Reuters
Elizabeth Romanaux puts a brave face on working as an intern at the age of 55.
A media relations manager until she joined the millions of unemployed Americans two years ago, Romanaux spent the spring building contact lists and fetching lunches as she tried to keep alive her chances of resuming full employment.
“You have to suck it up sometimes and do what a 17-year-old would happily do and be happy about it,” she said of her recent stint with a public relations firm in New Jersey.
Once the domain of high school and college students, internships are more common among older Americans who are struggling to find jobs and keep their skills up to date in the worst U.S. labor market in decades.
“A lot of adults who are either returning to the workforce or have been laid off in the recession are looking for places and ways to build a resume and fill a gap between jobs,” said Margo Rose, founder of HireFriday, an online job search advice website.
“The last thing you want to do is look the interviewer in the eye with a blank stare when they ask you, ‘What have you been doing for the last year?”‘
Rise of the Mature Interns
Data is scant on the number of older interns but labor economists, internship recruiters and graduate school career officers agree the number has been on the rise.
“There has definitely been almost an explosion of this kind of thing,” said Liz Ryan, of LizRyan.com, a career advice website. She says she had never been approached by mid-career clients seeking help securing an internship before 2008.
“In 2008, I had about 20 of them,” she said. That increased to 36 annually in 2009 and 2010.
Phil Gardner, research director for the Collegiate Employment Research Institute, which analyzes initial employment at Michigan State University, said the number of graduates taking internships “ballooned last year” before easing off as the U.S. labor market improved in early 2011.
Elizabeth Romanaux puts a brave face on working as an intern at the age of 55.
We’ve come along was as a nation my fellow Americans-right and left. 30 years of outsourcing, union-busting, tax cuts for the rich and corporations, TBTF, crony-corrupt-capitalism, rich getting richer, the rest getting shafted. We’ve come a long way…..
I’LL WORK FOR
FOODFREE“The last thing you want to do is
lookpunch the interviewer in the eye with a blank stare when they ask you, ‘What have you been doing for the last year?”‘Funny, Brazil was just about the last country in the world to outlaw slavery.
And the U.S. may become the first country in the world to re-legalize it.
I’ll bet the following is true today in Brazil (the are in Mexico):
Paid time off (vacations and national holidays) are defined by law.
Severance is required if you are terminated without cause (a layoff)
Profit sharing (8% of the companies profit in Mexico IIRC) and year end bonuses (3 weeks pay in Mexico) are required by law.
So once global wages are “equalized” we’ll be the worst off as won’t get paid time off or a year end bonus.
I’ll bet the following is true today in Brazil (the are in Mexico):
Yes. Stuff like all of that and more.
I’ve learned the hard way that only chumps work for free.
Everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY lies when they say they might hire you after a short period of working for free.
Hey, ever thought of telling the interviewer you were working for yourself? And really did so?
Internships need to be outlawed.
When I managed shopping centers (onsite and a portfolio eventually) I would never “hire” an intern. I got them a paycheck. I had a moral compass, and didn’t want them to pay for their job. (gas, food, clothing)
Now, I have old friends that got entertainment internships with the networks during college in the late 70’s, and they turned into lucrative careers. But the times have changed. Back then it worked.
Also, internships used to pay stipends. At HP, in the pre Carly days, we would hire a bunch of summer interns. IIRC they were paid about $2500 a month.
I have no idea of what they do today.
$2500 a month? Hell, that’s good money even today!
ESPECIALLY today!
I don’t think interns even get paid these days. (don’t hang out with college age kids these days, ya know?)
Eco:
Make being an “intern” subject to Equal Opportunity and age
discrimination laws.
No Kidding why should anyone be told they are OVERQUALIFIED?
That is just mean and nasty to someone willing to work for little or no pay to keep a recent job, in their field, at the top of their resume.
Then see how fast they will start paying “interns” again.
I swear it’s like the 19th century all over again.
Age is the major disqualification right now for a lot of people. Especially in the tech industry.
Food Stamps For Fast Food? Yum, Say Restaurants
~ walletpop.com
America’s poor, who are more likely to be plagued with poor nutrition and stricken with obesity than higher income groups, statistics show, are also more likely to get their meals from fast food restaurants. Where else can you get a days’ worth of calories for $5, no preparation required?
And this is the problem that bedevils a growing group of food policy experts, who see the external costs of such dietary choices in the rising cost of obesity and diet-related health problems. It’s a vicious circle, too: Children who are raised in households in which they receive low-quality food are more likely to be poor themselves, in addition to suffering from diet-related diseases and struggling in school.
There’s even evidence that high-calorie, low-nutrient-value diets (think sodas, french fries and low-quality proteins like hamburgers and chicken nuggets) contribute to aggressive risk-taking behavior.
All these concerns paint a picture of a sad, endless loop: Low income leads to unstable homes, unfortunate health outcomes and poor nutrition; unstable homes, unfortunate health outcomes and poor nutrition lead to lower incomes. And while we’re at it, the circumstances of low income and poor nutrition are related to high debt (from health care bills) and poor success in school and criminal convictions.
It’s enough to get food policy activists to call for better options for poor Americans, like better access to fresh food, extra food stamp benefits for use at farmer’s markets, and outreach by community gardens to lower-income neighborhoods.
It’s enough to get food policy activists to call for better options for poor Americans, like better access to… DECENT JOBS.
“Where else can you get a days’ worth of calories for $5, no preparation required?”
The fricken frozen aisle of the grocery, ya dummy. Frozen food is FAR better than fast food. Just how damn hard is it to operate a microwave? Or put a bag in boiling water? Or open a can and put it in a pot. All of it ready in the same time it took you to go the junk food shack and wait in line and come back. If not less!
Let me tell you, frozen food isn’t what it used to be. I’ve had frozen that was good, if not better, than many restaurants! (Bertolli’s comes to mind)
Food stamps at fast food? Just more corporate welfare.
No more food stamps just a weekly delivery of rice, beans, oatmeal, veg, and cheese. You need nothing more to survive.
Again food stamps are for the rich, they take the money selling these people processed food, and it keeps these poor people from rioting before the elite have stolen all of the middle class and upper middle class and lower elite’s wealth.
Food allergies may make some of these a bad choice for some people. And some folks may trade food for drugs.
In spite of the above objections, poor folk would still be better fed than the poor of the Great Depression.
Fixed mortgage rates hold steady near yearly lows
Average rate on 30-year fixed loan rises to 4.51 pct.; 15-year stays at 3.69 pct.
WASHINGTON (AP) — Fixed mortgage rates were mostly unchanged this week, hovering near their annual lows.
The average rate on the 30-year loan rose slightly to 4.51 percent, Freddie Mac said Thursday. It hit its lowest level of the year three weeks ago, at 4.49 percent.
The average rate on the 15-year fixed mortgage, a popular refinancing option, stayed at 3.69 percent. It reached its low point of the year two weeks ago, at 3.67 percent.
Rates typically track the yield on the 10-year Treasury note, which has been rising in the past week.
That could change this week when the Federal Reserve’s $600 billion bond buying program ends.
The Fed has purchased around $75 billion worth of bonds each month since November. That drove the yield on the 10-year Treasury note lower than 3 percent this spring. As a result, rates on mortgages and other loans also fell.
Still, low mortgage rates and plummeting home prices have done little to boost the troubled housing market. Tougher lending standards and bigger down payment requirements have prevented many people from taking advantage of the ultra-low rates. Many people who can qualify are holding off, worried that prices have yet to bottom out.
Still, low mortgage rates and plummeting home prices have done little to boost the troubled housing market. Tougher lending standards and bigger down payment requirements have prevented many people from taking advantage of the ultra-low rates. Many people who can qualify are holding off, worried that prices have yet to bottom out.
Note how the above graf says nothing about the job market. People who’ve lost jobs — or feel insecure about the jobs they still have — aren’t going to be out there buying houses.
Humana won’t hire smokers in Arizona
By Ken Alltucker, The Arizona Republic
If you light up a cigarette, it will snuff out your chances to land a job with health-insurance giant Humana in Arizona.
The health insurer said Wednesday that it will no longer hire workers in Arizona who smoke or use other tobacco products, part of a trend of employers who are cracking down on tobacco use among workers.
To enforce the tobacco ban that starts Friday, Humana will test new employees for nicotine use during a pre-employment urine drug screen.
Humana representatives say it makes sense for a company in the health-care field to lead by example. Smoking’s harmful effects on human health are well-documented, and Humana seeks to promote health and wellness — starting with its workers.
“Humana is dedicated to helping our employees take charge of their own health,” said Dr. Charles Cox, Humana vice president and market medical officer for Arizona, Nevada and Utah.
There is no way in hell I’d hire a smoker.
That’s odd, don’t you like “freedom?”
1.2 Personal Privacy
Libertarians support the rights recognized by the Fourth Amendment to be secure in our persons,
homes, and property. Protection from unreasonable search and seizure should include records held
by third parties, such as email, medical, and library records. Only actions that infringe on the rights
of others can properly be termed crimes. We favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes” without
victims, such as the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes.
——–
Why is the Libertarian party allowing people to co-opt their message and restrict freedom? I would think a smoker working for Humana would a be an example of Libertarianism at work.
Sorry not a Libertarian, and I would not hire a smoker for a myriad of reasons.
i wouldn’t hire a really fat person.
“i wouldn’t hire a really fat person”.
Fine by me!
“i wouldn’t hire a really fat person”.
“Fine by me!”
I wouldn`t hire a really short person.
Ah who am I trying to kid, I`d hire a short, fat smoker. I don`t think I could turn them down.
If I don`t get this job I don`t know what I`ll do.
And I would say…..
I guess it`s been tough, being a short, fat smoker and all.
I wouldn’t hire an ignorant and opinionated shill.
Why is the Libertarian party allowing people to co-opt their message and restrict freedom? I would think a smoker working for Humana would a be an example of Libertarianism at work.
I’m not sure if you’re being purposefully obtuse or don’t see the difference between a decision made by a private entity (Humana) and the government.
A private entity deciding not to hire someone based on their habits (or any reason actually) is not in conflict with the passage you quoted. The 4th amendment is with regards to government intrusion on such things.
I just want to make sure that I understand you correctly: the corporation has more freedom than the individual in this scenario, yes?
the corporation has more freedom than the individual in this scenario, yes?
They both have freedom of association here. The individual can choose to work for the company or not, the company can choose to hire the employee or not.
What freedom are you alleging is being infringed? What right is being violated? And if it’s not being done by the government, why is political ideology relevant?
I also want to make sure you’re o.k. with unreasonable search and seizure as a term of employment.
“What freedom are you alleging is being infringed?”
The right to privacy.
what “unreasonable search and seizure” is taking place? No one is being compelled - they’re voluntarily submitting to this.
Do you really not see the difference between the government - who has a monopoly on force - compelling you to do something, versus a private individual asking and you consenting?
The constitution protects against infringement of rights by government, not by private individuals. There are laws against that, certainly. But as far as libertarian philosophy, it’s a question of the size, role, and limits of government power. The situation here is two private entities choosing to associate with each other (unless the gov’t is forcing the individual to work for the employer, or vice versa).
Little story.
Another friend used to be a New Age person before libertarianism came into vogue. Then she switched to libertarianism. She doesn’t do much, but does spend a lot of time contemplating the teachings of Abraham (new age channeler type person). She prides herself on being a mental healer. We talk recipes and kids, mostly. What can I say? I have this FFA thing. Free floating affection. Once I have known anybody for awhile and shared some miles, I tend to just like them regardless.
I have on occasion gone into my alter ego Farmer Jane with her, extolling the prospective virtues of my prospective 40 acres with creek, cave, woodlot, hill (as backstop for shooting range), henhouse, pasturage, garden, all with the charming burble of the still in the background. Reading Hegel on the porch at dawn. Understand, although I could certainly buy the place as long as it’s not anywhere close to Where Jobz Are, and I am more than conversant with Hegel, I am mechanically inept and would not be able to manage beyond the first stair that collapses in the rickety homestead. But it’s nice to think about. I have an idea or four about where this mecca might be.
Recently Nancy started asking about whether or not I might want some company on this venture. She was willing to contribute by opining on the porch whilst I engage in the actual chores part of the endeavor. Evidently, her long suffering husband has made it known that once the kids are out of the house, so is she. And she’s never actually made a living at the oracle/healing biz. So she’s putting some energy into looking for a Plan B, while investing some brain cells in libertarianism philosophy.
I sez to her, “Nancy, what the heck are you bringing to the table? Nothing that I can see. I mean, I like you an all, but let’s be serious - yer mental healing failed miserably on my busted ankle them years back. Anyways, your latest philosophical bent - that people are perfectly justified in seeking only their own good - gives me the heebie-jeebies!
I can imagine you conking me over the head with a cast iron frying pan the first chance you get, throwing the ol’ carcass into the woods, and having a grand ol’ windfall party with what’s left of the moonshine!” .
She sez to me, “Of course that’s what I’d do. What did you expect?”
I was playing with a prospective scenario centered on an imaginary nirvana which is beyond my real life capabilities to fix and maintain. She was - clearly - serious.
I suspect that libertarianism embraces sociopaths from all walks of life, and once it emerges as a mainstream framework, it will be their magnet. Since under it, all acts of sociopathy are justifiable.
I can imagine you conking me over the head with a cast iron frying pan the first chance you get, throwing the ol’ carcass into the woods, and having a grand ol’ windfall party with what’s left of the moonshine!” .
She sez to me, “Of course that’s what I’d do. What did you expect?”
Answer: “This!!” (Then you should have cold-cocked her)
Freedom includes the freedom to higher whomever you’d like.
“Freedom includes the freedom to higher whomever you’d like.”
So if you don’t like gay people, black people, smokers, old people, males, females, etc. that’s cool?
So if you don’t like gay people, black people, smokers, old people, males, females, etc. that’s cool?
arguably yes. That’s the whole “freedom of association thing”. First amendment, no?
Yes, our country has come up with the idea of “protected classes” that you are not free to NOT associate with. While I wouldn’t advocate excluding/avoiding someone due to their race, handicap, or religion, I believe it’s an infringement on that right to criminalize the choice to not associate with them.
“So if you don’t like gay people, black people, smokers, old people, males, females, etc. that’s cool?”
I didn’t say I think it’s cool or even right, but that’s the other side of freedom. You can’t say everyone is free as long as they make the same choices I’d make. That’s not really freedom, right? The point is you’re free to make a choice for yourself.
Also, it’s important to note that it’s currently illegal in this country to make hiring decisions based on race, sex, religion, etc, but as of today, smoking status isn’t included in that list. So smokers can be discriminated against all day. I agree with the current list of protected classes (and I’m one of the few people that doesn’t belong to any of them!), but you’d have a hard time convincing me that smokers should be added to it. That said, I’m all ears if you have an argument why they should.
Just noticed I typed “higher” instead of “hire” in my earlier post. I was so focused on “whomever” vs “whoever” I overlooked that entirely. Long day.
“That said, I’m all ears if you have an argument why they should.”
Sure, adults smoking isn’t against any law. I don’t think smokers should be a protected class, but that doesn’t give corporations the right to invade privacy.
“Just noticed I typed “higher” instead of “hire”
There are typo police on this blog, but I am not one of them.
Ok, I can potentially get on board with that. I guess I’d need more detail on exactly how they screen out smokers. If they ask you to sign something saying you’re not a smoker and you won’t ever smoke outside of work then I think that goes too far, but I still don’t see how it’s my right to decide that for someone else. If they decide the workplace is smoke free and they don’t allow breaks long enough to leave and smoke then I’m fine with that. Sort of a don’t ask don’t tell policy.
We seem to go further and further down the path of forcing people/corporations to “do the right thing”. I guess we have to do that since we also seem compelled to help them out when they don’t do the right thing and get in trouble, but I still think my preference is that we’d allow more freedom of choice and also let people deal with the consequences of those choices on their own.
“Sure, adults smoking isn’t against any law.”
Had another thought (2 in 1 day!). Using racial slurs isn’t against any law. It’s certainly offensive and in poor taste (in my opinion), but it isn’t against any law. Can someone not hire me because I refer to everyone I meet with racial slurs? Is it ok that I’m treated differently as a result of this behavior? Who gets to decide which behavior is ok and which isn’t?
Max, all of these examples would be disruptive to the workplace.
Look, I hate smokers, but if an adult smokes at home, why should he be denied employment? Why not have genetic testing to determine if people are at risk for…
I think we all need to re-watch Minority Report, Children of Men, Logan’s Run, etc.
Drum, we’ve been butting heads lately — alot. I *want* to be a libertarian but it contradicts itself too much, IMHO.
Here are some things I feel strongly about, help me pick a political party:
1. I am against abortion (excepting forced intercourse).
2. I like guns, even concealed ones.
3. I believe in Public education, compulsory at least K-8. 9-12 can be 1. academic 2. vocational 3. optional with right to return as adult to obtain GED — all paid through taxation
4. I like the public sharing utilities and think they should be regulated and run by the gov.
5. I understand unions, but I have never voluntarily been a member of one
6. I have issue with a lot of gov “interventions”
7. Billboards should be banned everywhere.
8. I like nature, and it is a resource that should be preserved and available to everyone
9. TEA people that rejoice at other people losing their jobs are mental nut jobs
10. I have A LOT of probs with the FIRE sector
11. Drugs should be decriminalized
12. I think spies are great and wars are bad.
13. I think many government entities are wasteful (including education)
14. I hate corruption
15. I believe in Fed powers (EPA, FBI, DoJ, etc.)
16. I think we owe it to poor/disadvantaged people to help them out *some*. That is important to me - that is the benchmark of a civilized society. “How bad do the worse have it?”
17. Rich, rich people need to get real and chill out. What does $300 million buy you that $200 million doesn’t? My definition of rich starts around $3 million based upon people I know/have worked for.
18. Stop giving taxpayer money to professional sports. Lordy.
19. Offshoring needs to be PUNISHED. People died to build this shit. Respect that. Enough with the PO Box in the Caymans.
20. Fender products made in Mexico are crappy.
Drum, we’ve been butting heads lately — alot. I *want* to be a libertarian but it contradicts itself too much, IMHO.
Here are some things I feel strongly about, help me pick a political party:
Muggy, I’m not trying to convince you to be anything. Pick the label you want, and believe in the values that you choose.
I’m simply taking issue with the fact you’re trying to frame an interaction between two private entities as something that challenges the ideals of libertarianism. It simply isn’t.
There are plenty of possible criticisms against the ideology. I get where you’re coming from - you feel that you should be able to do whatever you damn well please in your free time, if it doesn’t affect your job performance. I agree with you 100%. Most jobs do compulsary drug testing…it’s the same concept. You know what you and I can do? Simply not work for those companies. They’ll lose out on your talent, and a company with a more reasonable policy will benefit and hopefully prosper.
You’re not a libertarian because you don’t believe everyone should get to make their own choices. With regards to certain issues, you believe that everyone should act - should be compelled to act - as you feel you individually should act. That’s simply at odds with the philosophy. It’s ironic, though, as you don’t appear to enjoy being compelled to act a certain way by others with whom you disagree.
Bottom line? There’s no perfect answer. You’re going to have to compromise. From your list, it sounds like you’d be best off letting go of wanting to force people to behave certain ways. You’ll get most of what you want. You’ll have to learn to be tolerant of some things, and to simply be happy living your life according to your moral compass, even if no one else does.
I would think a smoker working for Humana would a be an example of Libertarianism at work.
No, it’s an example of letting employers hire or fire who they damned well please, since it’s their business. Smokers and fatties cost a lot more and should maybe consider more healthy lifestyles.
Smokers could be a good deal if you have a pension plan and don’t offer health insurance.
You have problem with Corporate Communist Capitalism©®™, comrades?
“You have problem with Corporate Communist Capitalism©®™, comrades?”
I don’t! Thank God all these brave, mavericks are willing to carry the world on their shoulders. I can’t believe I fell for it for so long. Thank you again to Rio, Eco, RAL, Alpha et.al. for laying it out in terms that sense.
I like civilization and Earth and I am willing to share them both.
I’m tempted to put in an application with Humana. Not because I’m a smoker, but because I feel that this policy is a bit over the top.
What would I do after going to work for Humana? Well, I’d change my diet a bit. The new diet would include lots of beans. And I mean every meal with at least one bean dish.
My coworkers won’t smell ciggie smoke on me, but boy will they smell something else around the office.
HA! Love it!
I’ve always wanted to go to an AA meeting, then pop a cold one and start chugging just when things are getting real. But that would be wrong.
This sounds like discrimination to me. I don’t think you can disciminate on the basis of anything other than the ability to do the job. Just deny them health insurance…
“This sounds like discrimination to me. I don’t think you can disciminate on the basis of anything other than the ability to do the job. Just deny them health insurance…”
Or charge them more…
Shhh. It’s hard to disguise fascism as freedom when you start reasoning out issues like this.
Just give it up, you are pathetic. You have to attach everyone to some political party, you must be young. The real world has a smack down coming your way… Good luck. Remember keep voting your party lines, they are working hard for you!
What party line am I attaching everything to? Please be specific in our response.
I’m sure someone will sue Humana in short order so we’ll find out if it’s discrimination or not.
Personally, I have a hard time with legally protecting a class of people that are in that class by choice (with the exception of religion). What if I choose not to shower more than monthly and a company decides not to hire me as a result. Have I been discriminated against? What if I choose to get dozens of face piercings and tatoos and someone decides not to hire me. Have I been discriminated against? What if I choose to wear a garbage bag to the interview and I’m not hired?
Maybe someone more eloquent than me can explain exactly where the line is, but I’m pretty sure that you can make hiring decisions on more than just someone’s ability to do the job.
Alcohol is probably more dangerous than cigarettes. Motorcycles and skiing carry significant risks. Where does it stop?
What about cholesterol testing, something that is somewhat under a person’s control? Should an employer be able to make a decision based on that? At what point does the employer’s right to hire and fire conflict with the individual’s right to privacy?
Pay Tally Up 19% for Finance Chiefs ~ WSJ
Median pay for chief financial officers of S&P 500 companies surged 19% to $2.9 million last year, as profits and stock valuations rebounded and some finance chiefs assumed broader responsibilities, according to a Wall Street Journal survey.
CFO pay varied widely, from less than $600,000 to more than $60 million. Five CFOs received more than $20 million in compensation. Growth in pay partly reflected the growing clout and multiple responsibilities of some finance chiefs, and moves by some companies to combine the function with others.
What happens at the top of large corporations is disgusting. At the same time the rank and file can barely afford food and energy.
Nutt’n to talk about…
White House snubs McConnell invitation to Obama
WASHINGTON | Thu Jun 30, 2011
(Reuters) - The White House effectively turned down an invitation by Republican Senate Leader Mitch McConnell for President Barack Obama to visit his members on Capitol Hill on Thursday to discuss raising the debt limit.
White House press secretary Jay Carney, while not directly saying the invitation had been rejected, said Obama did not need to hear Republicans tell him what they would not support.
That, Carney said, was “not a conversation worth having.”
White House snubs McConnell invitation to Obama
Why doesn’t Obama better make the case to the American people of the reality of the rich’s taxes are at a 70 year historical low? I mean, it’s a fact easily proven. Fact: Many Americans do not know this fact, in fact, it’s a fact that many Americans think the opposite is in fact the fact.
I can make the argument in my sleep with the flu after drinking.
Why can’t he?
Maybe you haven’t noticed, but MSM is owned by just 6 corporations and they filter many things out.
For instance, did you hear about the two State Supreme Court Justices who assaulted each other? Didn’t think so. It’s hard to find even on the Internet.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/op-eds/2011/06/questions-and-answers-wisconsin-supreme-court-assault
The MSM is the voice of the establishment.
A college classmate is now an appellate judge in the state of Wisconsin. (He used to be the Dane County Attorney.)
Back in our college days, we both worked on the campus newspaper. He rose to a higher level than I did. Not that I was jealous about that — he was a much better reporter and editor than I was.
Any-hoo, when we were on the paper, he stood out as a very level-headed, intelligent guy. The sort who would end up going into some field or the other, and doing very well at it.
Given what I know about judicial careers, and that’s not very much, my understanding is that the next step on the ladder after appellate court is the supreme court.
I just hope that, by the time my classmate gets there, that the childishness will be a thing of the past.
+1
I can make the argument in my sleep with the flu after drinking.
Note to self: Do not get into an argument with Rio when Rio is in the above condition.
Maybe because its more effective to blame the deficit on the repubs and their unwillingness to raise taxes on the wealthy than to actually educate the voters.
The fact is the top 1% pay an effective tax rate of about 23%. During the Clinton years that rate was 28%, and in 1980 the effective tax rate for the top 1% was 34%. In 2008, the last year the data is available, the top 1% earned $1.69 trillion in income. The government would collect an additional $80-180 billion if taxes were raised on the top 1% to those previous levels. The government is currently running a $1.6 trillion annual deficit so you would eliminate 5-10% of that deficit by increasing taxes on the top 1% to levels seen under Clinton or Reagan. The data is available at the Tax Foundation http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/250.html#Data. Obama doesn’t want to educate the public that the government has a much larger spending problem versus a taxing problem. That is the fact.
1. Who funds the tax foundation???? Hint hint it isn’t the middle class.
2. The top 400 earners pay effective tax rates of around 15% that’s what is obscene. This click love to melt themselves into the top 1% or top 5%. Many in the 1% get the vast majority of their income on a W2, high end doctors and lawyers athletes entertainers middle tear management. These people still pay 28% this significantly drags up the average. The CEO and Hedge fund manager and inherited wealth pays 15% and this is only on the income they have not hidden.
3. Even if it only raises 200 billion that’s a big bite out of the deficit spending. We could also raise their taxes to the levels prior to Reagan. That might get us up to the 5-600 billion dollar level. We could go after hidden assets and throw a few in jail that would probably raise revenue even more. Finally we could do away with all of hte tax breaks big oil and others receive that would probably balance our budget. Let’s face it corporate taxes come out of the pocket of the ceo and the investor and since the top 1% own well over 50 % of the stock market that would hit them as much as anyone.
“I can make the argument in my sleep with the flu after drinking.”
Yes, but it is still a shallow point. It ignores the much much larger problem, completely. A diversion.
Hey Blue, do you use the Erie Canal, or do you take “free market” routes instead?
I love the Erie Canal! I use it a lot. As far as I know operation this year is still full. If they shut it down, and I doubt that because of flood control issues, I’d have to go overland to get to the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence. I can do that, but let’s hope it never comes to it.
“I love the Erie Canal! I use it a lot.”
Moocher!
Oh yeah! They spend millions to let this naked ass boater through the locks. I am quite the river rat.
Yes, but it is still a shallow point. It ignores the much much larger problem, completely. A diversion.
No way. It is not. Steamed Bean just said it might reduce the deficit by 10%. 10%! What else so easy and benign comes close? But I say tax the rich like the 60’s and 70’s and we get maybe to 20%. Add in taxing capital gains as income and we might get to 25-30%. Spend some of this savings on real jobs creation, training and education.
This is huge and would not hurt the country in the long run as it did not before. Why didn’t it? Because with a more equal distribution of wealth, the tax base rises. Historical American Fact. Now don’t divert and follow along please.
Close corporate tax loopholes and get to 35-40%
Now, raise duties on import crap and get to 50%. Then the tax base would rise because more Americans would be employed and pay tax. Why? More jobs making stuff. (My 3 year old Chinese toaster just broke. My mom’s USA made one from the 70s is still toasting) Sorry, I digress.
Now cut defense spending 20% and other government spending, means test Soc Sec and we could get to 65%.
Scrap Medicare and go to single payer with a 12% of GDP cap on healthcare and the problem is gone. Gone.
This argument doesn’t ignore squat and the only diversion is your post.
It’s not much fun talking to you when you let that Borderline crap spill all over!
Yes, let’s take care of 100% of the deficit, like adults. You bring up a lot of other things that are more significant than getting 5 or 10% from the wealthy. My point is that the wealthy are being used as a distraction to cutting military, cutting entitlements and the other necessary things. It need be a total package, or at least “OK here is step one. Others to follow immediately.” The drum beating on the wealthy makes me think the band isn’t planning on doing the hard stuff.
It will get done, but not by drum beaters.
It’s not much fun talking to you when you let that Borderline crap spill all over!
Especially when it totally disproves your diversionary “point” in ways you find hard to deal with.
Over 100 Memphis employees to be laid off Friday
Jun 30, 2011 MEMPHIS, TN.
(WMC-TV) - Roughly 125 city employees will be laid off Friday, a spokesperson from Memphis Mayor A C Wharton’s office said Thursday.
According to a letter from the city’s Human Resources director, Quintin Roberson, the affected employees will receive notice on Friday, but will be paid through the middle of July.
Meanwhile, most other city employees will receive a reduction in pay of 4.6 percent. According to Wharton, this action is being taken in lieu of losing 12 of 13 paid holidays.
The layoffs are part of the city’s overall plan to balance its budget. In addition to the filled positions that are being eliminated, 248 vacant positions from across city government will go away.
Friend in another state is joyous her 22 year old is a homeowner. Not married. No kids but had to buy himself a condo. The culture lives on despite the obvious.
The stigma of being a renter lives on.
I recall the 80’s in north San Diego County. We rented an apartment in a complex. I would say that half the tenants were real low lifes, and a police cruiser in the parking lot was a regular event.
No one bothered us or vandalized our cars. There was one guy who was some kind of party DJ, and one day someone set his van on fire and it was totalled. The overpaid union firefighters arrived fast and put it out, and the burned out hulk sat there for months.
Anywho, I had coworkers even back then telling me I was for living with the riff-raff.
So being the chump that I am, we bought a condo. Guess what? A lot of the neighbors were low life riff raff there as well. They’d park in our reserved spot (we had a one car garage and a marked outdoor spot). That never happened at the apt complex. I tried calling a tow truck company once, and the refused to haul them away, even though there was a big sign saying it was reserved parking. They claimed that since there was “public access” to our spot that it was free game to anyone who wanted to park there.
We sold the condo a year+ later and made a 30% profit on the sale.
MPS to lay off 519 employees
The Business Journal -June 29, 2011
With 519 layoff notices being sent to Milwaukee Public Schools employees today and another 419 vacant positions left unfilled, the embattled school district will be down nearly 1,000 employees when school resumes in the fall.
“This is a sad day for Milwaukee Public Schools,” superintendent Gregory Thornton said during a press conference Wednesday announcing the layoffs. “This is the largest layoff in history of MPS and includes 354 teachers. This will be a loss of a lot of talent.”
Thornton attributed the layoffs to $84 million in cuts to state aid by Gov. Scott Walker in his 2011-2013 biennial budget that was signed last weekend. Those cuts are for the first year of the budget cycle.
Layoffs are effective Friday.
Just wait, this fall the Tea Baggers will be bitching about over crowded classrooms and cancelled programs.
Don’t expect the Tea Tardiers to make that connection though. They’re merely wind up’s. Tell them something and they repeat it no matter how idiotic.
Despite Fears, Owning Home Retains Allure, Poll Shows
NYTIMES ~ DAVID STREITFELD and MEGAN THEE-BRENAN
Owning a house remains central to Americans’ sense of well-being, even as many doubt their home is a good investment after a punishing recession.
Nearly nine in 10 Americans say home-ownership is an important part of the American dream, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll. And they are keen on making sure it stays that way, for themselves and everyone else.
Support for helping people in financial distress over housing is higher than support for helping those without a job for many months.
Forty-five percent of the respondents say the government should be doing more to improve the housing market, while 16 percent say it should be doing less. On the politically contentious issue of direct financial assistance to those having trouble paying their mortgages, slightly more than half of those polled, 53 percent, say the government should help. And almost no one favors discontinuing the mortgage tax deduction, a prized middle-class benefit that has been featured on some budget-cutting proposals.
President Obama, who has been criticized for both doing too much to help the housing market and for not doing enough, was given poor marks. Only 36 percent of those polled approve of what Mr. Obama has done, while 45 percent disapprove.
In assessing blame for the housing crash, people are increasingly seeing financial institutions as the central culprit. Amid the swirl of recent disclosures about banks following improper and illegal procedures in pursuing foreclosures, 42 percent blame lenders, while 29 percent blame regulators. When the question was asked in early 2008, as the crisis was still building, the numbers were reversed, with 40 percent blaming regulators and 28 percent blaming lenders. Only a handful of respondents at either moment blamed the borrowers themselves for taking loans they could not afford.
It is hard to please everyone, but it’s easy to piss everyone off!
Speaking of people who’ve annoyed just about everyone on this blog, the HuffyPo is reporting that Tim Geithner may be on his way out.
Support for helping people in financial distress over housing is higher than support for helping those without a job for many months.
And I suppose few see the disconnect. Housing can’t/shouldn’t be healthy if employment isn’t.
Beat the gas tax hike - fill ‘er up today
charlotteobserver Jun. 30, 2011
Triangle gas prices have fallen 40 cents in the past six weeks, but a tax increase hits the pumps Friday.
Traveling for the July Fourth weekend? Today would be a smart day to fill up the tank.
Gas prices have fallen 40 cents in the past six weeks, and that’s one reason that the AAA Carolinas motor club predicts a busy holiday travel weekend.
But those lower prices will surely click a few pennies higher before the weekend, thanks to a tax increase scheduled to hit the pumps Friday.
North Carolina’s per gallon tax on gas and diesel fuel will rise from an all-time high 32.5 cents through today to an even-higher 35 cents starting Friday. The 2.5-cent change will give North Carolina the ninth-highest tax rate among the 50 states, according to the American Petroleum Institute.
The Obama administration said last week it would release 30 million barrels of oil from the nation’s emergency stockpile. Economists said the supply increase would push gas prices even lower.
“Beat the gas tax hike - fill ‘er up today”
Beat the gas tax hike even worse - don’t fill ‘er up.
“Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner has signaled to White House officials that he’s considering leaving the administration after President Barack Obama reaches an agreement with Congress to raise the national debt limit, according to three people familiar with the matter. ”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-30/geithner-said-to-weigh-leaving-treasury-after-debt-ceiling-debate-resolved.html
Looks like Geitner is wanting to get some payback from his banking buddies and isn’t inclined to wait. If he waits they might forget those promises of CEO pay and benefits and a 24 hour accountant to make those pesky turbotax problems disappear.
My take on the sitch: President Obama has decided to name Elizabeth Warren to the top job at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. And word is that Turbo Tax Timmy isn’t terribly fond of her.
He probably said as much to Obama. Who probably said, “Well, Tim, I’m naming her. If you don’t like it, there’s the door.”
I have no inside info, but that’s my theory.
Oh man I hope you’re right.
I know that it’s a pain-in-the to go through a whole slide show, but this White House photo set has a photo of Geithner and Warren. TTT’s shoulder pat at a distance doesn’t say “friendly body language” to me.
Geithner to consider stepping down, Bloomberg.
Well he should be stepped on, but he’ll just run back to G-Sucks or J.P., it’s an insider thing.
Actually, Geithner has spent most of his working career in the public sector.
“but he’ll just run back to G-Sucks or J.P., it’s an insider thing.”
Freedom to associate?
Good riddance to bad rubbish. He should leave BEFORE the debt ceiling resolution.
And now, Timmy, don’t let door hitya where the good Lord splitya.
This is a rebroadcast of a previous show.
This is Cousin Jethro back from the unemployment line and broadcasting from 98.6 WDBT Deadbeat radio FM
And it`s a BEAUUUUUTIFUL day to withhold another mortgage payment in West Palm Beach, how many does that make? 38? 48? Ah you Deadbeats I love ya.
This one is goin` out to Bill down in Boca, Bill hasn’t made a mortgage payment in FIVE, that`s right count em 5 years. HAMP, HAMP. I tell ya Bill you`re an inspiration to us all. Hang in there Bill and keep on stickin it to the man.
(STAY)
A-a-a-a-ah, just a little bit longer
(PLEASE)
Please, please, please, please
Tell me you’re gonna
Now, Bernanke don’t mind
And Obama don’t mind
It`s another lien they file
We just throw it on the pile, just
One more time
Oh, won’t you stay
Just a little bit longer
Please let me hear
You say that you will
Say you will
Won’t you stop your payments
Like miiiiine
Won’t you say that MERS is
A criieiiieiiime
(STAY)
Just a little bit longer
(PLEASE)
Please, please, please, please
Tell me you’re going to
Come on, come on, come on and …stay-yey-yey-yeh
Come on, come on, come on and stay-yey-yey-yeh
Come on, come on, come on and stay…
Come on, come on, come on…
http://www.cnbc dot com/id/43598606
Not that AG has much credibility here, but his view of what QE2 did and did not do is consistent with what we saw in credit markets for commercial RE. Low rates that are largely inaccessible don’t do much good.
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http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=189180
Was disgraced IMF head Strass-Kahn set up? And if so, what was the motive?
WTF!?
The Wall Street Journal
NEW YORK
JULY 1, 2011
Twist in Strauss-Kahn Case
Questions Are Raised About Accuser’s Veracity; Hearing Is Set on Terms of Bail
By MICHAEL ROTHFELD And CHAD BRAY
The sexual-assault case against former International Monetary Fund leader Dominique Strauss-Kahn appeared to be weakening Thursday as prosecutors and his defense team prepared to raise questions about the credibility of the maid who accused him, people close to the case said.
Problems with the prosecution’s main witness are expected to be made public at a last-minute court hearing scheduled for Friday morning before State Supreme Court Justice Michael Obus. Defense lawyers are likely to ask the judge to end house arrest and electronic monitoring, two restrictive conditions of Mr. Strauss-Kahn’s bail.
Dominique Strauss-Kahn stands with his lawyer Benjamin Brafman during his arraignment in New York on June 6.
“There will be serious issues raised by the district attorney’s office and us concerning the credibility of the complaining witness,” said Benjamin Brafman, a lawyer for Mr. Strauss-Kahn.
Mr. Strauss-Kahn, 62 years old, has pleaded not guilty to charges of sexually assaulting the maid in his suite May 14 at the Sofitel hotel in Manhattan.
Prosecutors aren’t expected to immediately ask for dismissal of the charges against Mr. Strauss-Kahn, who faces a seven-count indictment, people familiar with the matter said.
A lawyer for the alleged victim, Kenneth Thompson, couldn’t be reached for comment.
Prosecutors are expected to reveal in court that the maid told them she had been the victim of a gang rape in her home country of Guinea, and later admitted that she had made the story up, a person familiar with the matter said.
…
WaPo
Treasury Secretary Geithner considering leaving post after debt talks
By Zachary A. Goldfarb, Thursday, June 30, 9:22 PM
Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner, an architect of the Obama administration’s economic strategy, has told the president that he may seek as soon as this summer to resign, according to people familiar with the matter.
Geithner’s departure would mark the loss of Obama’s longest-serving economic adviser at a time when the recovery has slowed and the unemployment rate remains stubbornly high.
Geithner has told the White House he will wait until the conclusion of talks with Congress over the nation’s debt before deciding whether to leave, according to the people familiar with the matter.
An administration official said Geithner recognizes the conclusion of these negotiations could provide a “window” for him to leave. Another official at the Treasury Department said Geithner doesn’t plan to make any decisions while he is focused on striking a deal with lawmakers to reduce the deficit and raise the federal limit on borrowing, which he has said must happen by Aug. 2 to avert a catastrophic default.
…
He’s not bearish enough for my taste.
For instance, the way DC is extending the housing correction, why should we expect the market to be on firmer footing in 15 years? Why wouldn’t it be delayed until, say, 2041?
June 30, 2011, 2:03 PM ET
Pimco’s Simon: There Was Never a Housing Recovery
By Dawn Wotapka
Bearish outlooks on housing aren’t hard to find these days, but one stands out even for this market.
Scott Simon, a managing director and head of global asset-giant Pimco’s mortgage- and asset-backed securities teams, is credited with foreseeing the housing crash and helping his firm dodge losses that plagued Wall Street.
In a lengthy Q&A posted on Pimco’s website today, Mr. Simon discusses everything from foreclosures to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Calling his outlook “dour” would be generous—home prices could fall more and the pain could drag on for a decade or more.
Excerpts are below. (Both the questions and answers are from Pimco.)
Q: Could you begin by framing the current state of the housing market? Do you see a double dip market?
A: We are seeing signs of what we have long suspected: There never was a housing recovery. In fact, I argue the market is in a fragile state that is far easier to break than to fix. If policy makers alter the government’s current approach to housing and unwittingly break the market, they may not be able to repair the damage within the foreseeable future. … We anticipate an average decline from here of about 6% to 8% in prices across the country.
Q: Are more foreclosures expected to hit the market?
A: We see potential for a substantial number of foreclosures over the next three years – as many as 6 million to 7 million additional foreclosures, on top of the roughly 2 million we estimate have already occurred. Foreclosures may peak in about two years, but the numbers could still be high for a few years after that and then likely taper off.
Q: Let’s switch gears to discuss housing finance. Is the home-loan market still reliant on government support?
A: Yes, government is essentially considered the mortgage market today, but this needs to be put in context. Government has been involved in housing for some 70 years with pro-housing subsidies of all sorts, from homebuyer tax credits to guaranteeing loans to mortgage interest tax deductions. … If we ended government support in all forms, mortgage rates could rise significantly, because home loan investors would need to be compensated for greater credit risk, and loan availability could decline. Higher rates and less mortgage availability would put downward pressure on home values, with potentially negative consequences for the market and also for the economy as a result of wealth destruction and consumer confidence declining.
Q: What are politicians and policy makers proposing to do about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? Are there serious alternatives being discussed to provide liquidity to the market?
A: From what I have observed in visits to D.C., when the conversation comes around to Fannie and Freddie it is very easy for people to get irrational. Fannie and Freddie seem to draw negativity like giant lightning rods because they lost so much money. But what is often overlooked is that the majority of losses have not come from their core business: 20% down-payment, prime mortgages. They got in trouble because they expanded beyond their core business to maintain market share. …But politicians from both parties look at the losses of Fannie and Freddie and think, “I’d better say Fannie and Freddie stink and we should shut them down and that they are evil.” But the market still relies heavily on Fannie and Freddie. If policymakers err in tinkering with that support while the market is so fragile, the unintended consequences could be extreme.
Q: And when do you expect action on this issue?
A: Despite the heated rhetoric, there appears to be no rush to kill Fannie and Freddie, from what I have observed. Initially, we heard talk of getting the government out of housing in two years, and lately the talk is five to seven years. I think in Washington-speak, five-to-seven years more likely means 10-to-15 years, which is actually a more realistic timeframe in my opinion – by then the housing market should hopefully be on firmer ground.
Now, Developments readers, what do you think? Too bearish or not enough?