When The Price You Pay Doesn’t Make Sense
The Record reports from New Jersey. “The Vistas, a condominium near Paterson’s Great Falls, opened in December 2008, but it has quickly become an uninhabited magnet for vandals. The 10-unit condominium building was supposed to be the first of 12 such structures to be built at a cost of about $36 million along the edge of the cliffs when it opened in December 2008. They were billed as affordable housing for professionals who worked and lived near the city. With grants for first-time homebuyers, the units sold in the low $200,000 range.”
“A video made when the building first went on the market showed the mayor touring one of the units, bouncing on a bed and pointing out the window. ‘We really kicked it up a notch with a lifestyle, a pool and a fitness center,’ Jose ‘Joey’ Torres said at the opening ceremony. ‘I want one of these.’”
“But the pool and fitness center never got built and only four of the units were occupied, recalled Paul Aiello, one of the people who moved in. ‘I didn’t want to stay there anymore,’ said Aiello, a Belleville high school biology teacher who lived at the Vistas from June 2009 to June 2010.”
“Aiello, he has moved to Jersey City, where he spent about $60,000 more for a house, but found a place where he feels safe. ‘I have a neighborhood where I’m not afraid to walk around in,’ he said. ‘Once you walked out of the gates at The Vistas, you were scared.’”
The Press of Atlantic City. “On Sunday, 26 waterfront residences at Lower Township’s Grand at Diamond Beach brought in nearly $15 million at auction. The residences, which bidders could walk through prior to the auction, all featured private verandas and ranged from 1,822 square feet to more than 2,235 square feet. Most had summer 2010 list prices set between $700,000 and $900,000 but sold between $500,000 and $600,000.”
“Company officials said the auction helps determine the true value of the homes and recalculates prices that have that have fluctuated because of supply-and-demand issues in the nation’s housing market following the recession. ‘There is disequilibrium in the South Jersey market, particularly in the luxury sector,’ Accelerated Marketing Partners East Coast CEO Jon Gollinger said in a statement. ‘The Grand at Diamond Beach auction is a great opportunity for buyers to purchase into one of the most high-end quality properties on the eastern seaboard at price points that were previously unavailable.’”
The New York Times on New Jersey. “The soft real estate market has hit this northwest corner of the state particularly hard. In late June, there were 434 homes for sale here, 114 of which were condominiums or hotel condo units. The median price for a single-family home is $229,900, according to the Garden State Multiple Listing Service. Mark and Julie Bush were able to take advantage of those dropping prices by waiting it out to buy their new-construction four-bedroom, two-and-a-half-bath house on 3.2 acres.”
“Mark Bush was most recently living in a condo here with his wife and two children. For a year and a half, he said he had been keeping his eye on a new house with great views of the mountains. ‘Contracts had fallen through and I saw the price keep dropping every couple of months,’ said Mr. Bush. In January, the Bushes moved into their new house, paying $355,000 for a house originally listed at $499,900.”
“The real estate slump has had the effect of bringing in a new wave of second-home buyers and investors to the 1,500 condominiums at Mountain Creek. Among the beneficiaries were Milo Chan and Winnie Donahue, who closed last month on a furnished three-bedroom town house in the Black Creek Sanctuary area, paying $170,000 for a unit that sold for $524,950 in 2004, according to Carol Williams, an agent at Prudential Gross & Jansen Highlands Realty.”
“While they weren’t actively looking to buy a second home, Ms. Donahue said the price, and the fact that it was furnished, made the deal irresistible. ‘We wanted something turnkey, but this was ridiculous,’ said Ms. Donahue.”
The Star Ledger in New Jersey. “If you can’t rein in spending, it doesn’t matter how much money you earn. Mark, 63, and Melissa, 59, have learned that the hard way. They owe more than they own, and despite an annual income of about $200,000, they can’t seem to stay current with their bills. Mark says they’d like to get current and stay current with their two mortgages, pay off more than $335,000 in student loans they took for their three grown children and pay off their credit card obligations.”
“Mark and Melissa estimate their home is worth $575,000, and they have $478,000 of loans against it. But according to real estate price tracking website Zillow, the home is currently worth $465,000.”
“Despite the debt burden, the couple is still planning to spend more. ‘Repairs and improvements need to be made to our house over the next few years and, hopefully, the housing market will come back somewhat over that period,’ Mark says. ‘We plan to sell, downsize and pay off as much debt as we can at that time. Retirement cannot come until we get to an affordable living situation.’”
The Hartford Business Journal in Connecticut. “While most residential real estate continues to stumble in Connecticut, signs of life are echoing from the luxury home market as prospective buyers flush with cash are finding discounted home prices to their liking, spurring more deal flow, industry experts say. Brokers in Fairfield County — where the definition of luxury housing starts at $4 million — say they are seeing a similar uptick.”
“Prices for high-end homes are down anywhere from 10 percent to 30 percent or more, which is making prospective buyers who may have been skittish about the market a year or two ago willing to close on a deal today. And sellers are also coming to grips that the value of their home is not worth what it was before the housing crisis struck in 2007-2008.”
“In West Hartford, for example, a nine bedroom, 13,000-square-foot mansion at 112 Stoner Dr. recently sold for $2.725 million. In 2009, that luxury estate, which sits on 3.5 acres and has six full baths, was put on the market with an asking price of $5.9 million, more than double its eventual selling price. ‘You can see why a buyer would jump in and see good value in a deal like that,’ said RE/MAX Premier broker Lou Mira. . ‘A lot of these home prices have adjusted from the height of market.’”
The Eagle Tribune on New Hampshire. “Foreclosures fell in Rockingham County in the first half of the year, and were on track to do so statewide. But a county official who follows them is skeptical of the numbers and doesn’t see Southern New Hampshire emerging from housing troubles before the third quarter next year.”
“‘Heartbreaking’ is how Register of Deeds Cathy Stacey characterizes the number of foreclosure ads in the newspaper. ‘I’m from Salem and there are several properties in town that are vacant,’ Stacey said. ‘The banks just haven’t taken them yet. These properties are still depreciating — and depreciating the properties around them.’”
The Philadelphia Inquirer. “Prices have plummeted in Atlantic and Cape May Counties since the Shore real estate boom ended in 2006. Economist Kevin Gillen, VP at Econsult Corp. in Philadelphia, reckons the drop averaged 32 percent for a typical seashore house by the end of first quarter of 2011. For comparison, the Federal Housing Finance Agency says average home values have fallen 21 percent nationwide, 16 percent in Philadelphia, and 14 percent in New Jersey.”
“Economist Joel L. Naroff, who built a house at the Shore a few years back, said the rebound in the equity markets had meant more wealth to some buyers, ‘and they see prices as being quite reasonable and are snapping up properties.’ ‘It still seems to be a buyer’s market in most areas, though sellers seem to have decided what their bottom line is and are holding to it,’ Naroff said. ‘With few spec houses out there, if people don’t have to sell, they will not take any lowball offer. Thus, having a buyer’s market doesn’t mean people can make any offer.’”
“Realtor Allan Domb is a denizen of Center City and its high-rise condo buildings, but he not only has a getaway in Longport, he also owns several rental properties there, too. How would he recommend shopping for a Shore house? Choose a price range, he said, such as $500,000 to $550,000, and look at all the available listings between those parameters.”
“‘I would isolate five or 10 homes and make lower offers on each,’ Domb said. ‘If the first seller rejects the offer, just move on to the next, and to the next again, until someone finally accepts it.’ These days, ‘there is a small percentage of people who must sell, so if you offer $400,000 for a $500,000 listing and come back a week later and offer $425,000, they may take it,’ he said.”
“One group with which today’s Shore buyers are unlikely to be competing: investors. ‘The economics of the rent you will receive vs. the price you pay doesn’t make sense,’ Domb said.”
Mark and Julie Bush were able to take advantage of those dropping prices by waiting it out to buy their new-construction four-bedroom, two-and-a-half-bath house on 3.2 acres.”
“Mark Bush was most recently living in a condo here with his wife and two children. For a year and a half, he said he had been keeping his eye on a new house with great views of the mountains.
Yes - New Jersey STILL has some rural parts left with mountains (hills to those in Colorado)…
I had to work at an AF base in New Jersey not too far from Philidelphia for a month and was surprised at the number of farms.
“hills to those in Colorado”
Yeah, we call those things “foothills.”
If you’re ever out here don’t miss Rocky Mountain National Park. During the summer they open Trail Ridge Road (US34) in the park. It is the highest contiguous highway in the US and reaches a maximum elevation of 12,183 ft. Great views too.
If you’re ever out here don’t miss Rocky Mountain National Park. During the summer they open Trail Ridge Road (US34) in the park. It is the highest contiguous highway in the US and reaches a maximum elevation of 12,183 ft. Great views too.
That road whipped my butt.
I tried to bicycle to the summit back in September ‘81. But I forgot to bring an extra pair of lungs. The thin air made it tough to breathe, let alone pedal.
I ended up pushing the bike most of the way to the top. Getting there took around eight hours. Riding down took only two.
I have been twice. Hiking to the summit of Longs Peak was the most difficult thing I have ever done, harder than a marathon. I was breathing, but it was as if the air no longer contained oxygen. There came a point in the final few hundred feet, appropriately dubbed the “Homestretch,” where I couldn’t even speak anymore.
It seems that every summer at least 1 hiker falls to his or her death from Long’s Peak. I suspect that the oxygen deprivation is a factor.
Pike’s Peak has both a gavel road (scary) and cog wheel train that take you to the summit. The train ride is pricey but relaxing. There is a giftshop and a restaurant at the summit.
Before my brother did the 1/2 marathon up Pike’s Peak when he was in the Army, Mom and Dad and I joined him at a more casual pace. Advice: go early. The electrical storms that roll in later are frightening and you, a bag of salty water, are the tallest thing out there above treeline. Even with my bro’ hauling all of the water, they rest of us were whipped.
Retrospective fun, that.
I’ve also hiked up Pike’s Peak twice. The first time I was a very inexperienced hiker unfamiliar with altitude sickness and not knowledgeable at all about the vagaries of mountain weather. Truly a Floridian! At 10,000 feet I started feeling strange, and it got worse from there. Then it snowed to the point of a whiteout — in July. I finally reached the top and stumbled into the gift shop at the summit railhead, which was full of people who had driven or ridden the train. They looked at me like I was out of my mind. (By comparison, I received similar looks in 2005 with respect to my housing market views, only more patronizing.)
I hitched a ride down with a group of tourists; on the descent, the driver pulled over to the side of the road and vomited. I cannot imagine running the marathon there.
Mark says they’d like to get current and stay current with their two mortgages, pay off more than $335,000 in student loans they took for their three grown children and pay off their credit card obligations.”
OMG!
“‘We plan to sell, downsize and pay off as much debt as we can at that time. Retirement cannot come until we get to an affordable living situation.’”
He seems to have forgotten the having money part of retirement too. The man is 63 (wife 59) and is behind on 2 mortgages, has over $300K of debt for his kids’ educations and credit card debt. Oh, and they are going to be spending money on home repairs over the next few years.
They are planning to retire how? Sounds like he is counting on a V-shaped recovery in the housing market combined with keeping that $200K income for a good long while. Good luck with that.
It sounds like the poor man has mistaken debt for savings. He’s going the WRONG way.
I guess the kids didn’t want to go to state.
These days, ‘there is a small percentage of people who must sell, so if you offer $400,000 for a $500,000 listing and come back a week later and offer $425,000, they may take it,’ he said.”
“One group with which today’s Shore buyers are unlikely to be competing: investors. ‘The economics of the rent you will receive vs. the price you pay doesn’t make sense,’ Domb said.”
Yes - pay $400,000 for shore house shack (miles from the beach) that will never be cash flow positve and even if you spend every weekend/vacation day at your shack - it would have way cheaper to stay ot a 5 star hotel (with dinners) right on the beach…
Having grown up outside of Philadelphia, I’ve heard more than a few things about the Jersey Shore. But count my family as one that seldom went there.
When we did, it was on day or weekend trips. And we’d get together with friends who’d rented a house or a motel room.
Well, that was the 1960s and 1970s.
More recently, my mother has regaled me with the saga of the neighbor couple that owned a house in Cape May. From what Mom said, they seldom went there. And when they weren’t there, they worried about the place. Didn’t sound like a whole lotta fun.
Anyway, they recently sold the place and Mom made it sound like they’d gotten out from under a heavy millstone. Maybe they did.
After they sold the Shore place, they decided to sell their house. Husband was in a wheelchair (polio put him there) and they wanted less square footage to take care of. Not to mention losing the yard. That was getting to be too much as well.
I should mention that the wife was the sole caregiver. The husband (who was very particular and demanding) did NOT want one of those home healthcare agencies coming in.
Once the house sold, they moved into a condo. Shortly thereafter, Mrs. Caregiver dropped dead. Mom thinks it was due to all the stress.
We have no idea what happened to the husband. It’s like there’s been a news blackout about the whole situation.
It’s true, but you’re forgetting about the “appreciation” you get from owning and don’t forget the “pride of ownership”. And also, if they don’t buy now, they could get “priced out forever”. Besides, the Realtors say “now is the best time to buy.”
I’ve never heard them say it wasn’t a good time to buy, but why should that matter.
The hotel option is the one that we have been going with lately. Far cheaper, and it also means that when we get to the ocean that I don’t have yardwork or painting to do. And we get a pool where someone else has to clean it, so I get to enjoy it..
It probably won’t be until we are closer to retirement that it would actually make that much sense to buy anything (assuming that we would want to live out there). The price pressure is down these days, so I feel no rush..
West Hartford? Isn’t that gang territory?
The one and only time I was in Hartford, CT, it was a real eye-opener. Being a west coaster, I was under a false impression that it was a nice, wealthy area.
It USED to be….Safe clean downtown. then the Insurance companies downsized and moved out…now its like any URBAN crap hole
From the Star Ledger piece: “Next, they need to address their credit card usage, and theirs have interest rates as high as 27 percent.”
They’ve also missed their minimum payment due dates too.
Also from the story…
“Next, they should drastically cut back on their discretionary expenses, which include annual costs of $9,000 for vacations, $5,400 for snacks and meals out and $3,420 for house cleaning and lawn maintenance”.
$5400 on “snacks” eh? I’ll tell you what Mark and Melissa…. I give you two scooby snacks just for saving yourselves and walking away from that rapidly depreciating house.
I know a fellow that is in his 50’s, single does odd jobs and his income is around $10,000.00. He has small apt. he does the up keep as part of his rent. Has a old Toyota pick-up, he rebuilt the engine two years ago. It runs like a top, is paid for, he has no debt except the usual running debt. Gas, Electric, food,Ins. etc.
He is not on any type of welfare, and is happy with his place in life. Spends his off time in his kayak on the river fishing with his dog.
Point is, a simple life is a doable thing, so when jackasses like the couple in this article appear with their problems I for one could not care less.
I just don’t want to somehow end up getting their bill via some claptrap bailout BS.
Lots of those kinds of guys around here. Funny thing is, their net worth is probably higher than the FBs in New Jersey.
No probablys about it. Think about it. Most these clowns who bought housing since 2000 would not break even right now.
When I was a new associate at an NYC law firm, we all knew that our net worths were less than that of the homeless. You had to ignore the discounted value of the future earning potential of our degrees, but we were all overestimating that value anyway.
you are getting the bill through artificially low interest rates.
That would be correct.
From the article: “Lynch doesn’t recommend they cancel their credit cards, but instead take the cards, place them in a plastic bag, fill the bag with water and stick it in the freezer. ”
Actually I would recommend putting steel and concrete around the things. If you really needed them, you could spend the afternoon with a sledgehammer to get them out again, but I would venture a guess that all of that physical labor would cause them to think twice…
“Economist Joel L. Naroff, who built a house at the Shore a few years back, said the rebound in the equity markets had meant more wealth to some buyers, ‘and they see prices as being quite reasonable and are snapping up properties.’
Yup. Waves of buyers are waiting in line to “scoop up bargains” a’la 2005.
Hurry…. you don’t want to miss this once in a lifetime opportunity(to enslave yourself)
Is this the “Jersey Shore”? I can see a reality television show in the works, with economists hooking up, getting drunk, and brawling.
63 years old and owing as much as or more than the house is worth? owing $335K for student loans on 3 kids? Credit card debt?
These people are poster children for fecklessness.
I’d love to know what their kids majored in in college and I’d bet they majored in stuff that has no occupational relevance…
“I’d love to know what their kids majored in in college and I’d bet they majored in stuff that has no occupational relevance…”
Yeah, you just know that they majored in ‘theater’ or ‘communications’ or ‘medieval art history’. God forbid Junior and Janie should have gone to State U and gotten a degree in accounting or business administration.
How aobut Poetry?
Poetry? Why bother? It’s not “worth” anything. The only thing that’s worth anything is “accounting or business administration”.
MrBrickInTheWall
If it were my kid, I’d require him to double major. He gets one major for what he wants to do, and the other major that gets him a job. Especially since I’d be the one paying for it. And the minute I get one whiff that he’s slacking off on the job-getting major, I cut off the money and send the kid to McDonalds. Because that’s where he’d wind up anyway.
Why would anyone want to live in Jersey now? Back in the day, it had some halfway decent suburbs, but now? With all the taxes?
We really kicked it up a notch with a lifestyle, a pool and a fitness center,’ Jose ‘Joey’ Torres said at the opening ceremony. ‘I want one of these.’”
Hahaha, Joey Torres! now there’s a piece of work. Nice knowin ya, Joey.
Jose Torres was the previous mayor, now it’s Jeffery Jones.
Jose could have paid himself 800K like Bell city mayor.
….
Mayor Jeffery Jones — who alluded to the Vistas site in his recent state of the city speech — said last week that the abandoned project was one that probably should never have been approved.
“Without careful and articulate planning, that’s what you get,” Jones said. He said he would prefer to see the site turned into a state park and for a hotel to be built nearby. If the property were to become a state park adjacent to the new National Historic Park in the Falls District, the condos would likely be torn down, he acknowledged.
That’s a completely different vision than the one once promoted by Jones’ predecessor Jose “Joey” Torres, who enthusiastically embraced the condo project at the site above the Valley of the Rocks and Mary Ellen Kramer Park. A video made when the building first went on the market showed the mayor touring one of the units, bouncing on a bed and pointing out the window.
“really kicked it up a notch”
Funny how nobody ever kicks it down a notch. Well, that time has come.
I might drop a couple of mill on a house if it meant I could tell everyone I live on “Stoner Drive”.
On the other end of the motivating names spectrum, in the town of Lysander is a road named Dinglehole. I wonder how many sales never happen because of that.
I’d rather live on Dinglehole than one of those new hoity-toity streets like Carriage House Lane or Running Mill or Thoroughbred Way or I-cut-down-an-apple-orchard-so-I-could-name-this Macintosh Orchard Court.