July 13, 2011

You Almost Can’t Afford Not To Buy In Florida

WBBH reports from Florida. “One condominium complex in Southwest Florida that struggled to sell in the past has opened its doors for sales again. Eight years ago, the housing market was much different. Homeowners Joe and Joyce Rutter actually waited in line to buy a house in Tarpon Gardens. However, they say what they purchased wasn’t exactly what they were looking for. The couple was actually in the market for a high-rise condo across the street at Tarpon Landings. ‘They started to build these units we came and looked at them but they were very high price and we couldn’t afford it,’ said Joe.”

“At the height of the housing market in 2005, typical units were selling for over $1 million. Now they are selling for mid $300s, making it the perfect time for people to buy. ‘These prices are so attractive you almost can’t afford not to buy them,’ Joe says.”

The News Press. “National news reports - including a February 2009 profile of Lehigh Acres by The New York Times - highlighted the harsh reality of the foreclosure market in Southwest Florida, and Lehigh was the epitome of the ruin. As it fights back from the real estate tumble, Lehigh’s main battle may be that of perception - the perception that crime and foreclosures overwhelm the city, and that the rock-bottom prices of recent years are still waiting for investors looking to cash in.”

“‘The expectation is that they can still get the $20,000 price range and that’s just gone,’ said Diane Turrill, a broker with Real Estate Executives in Lehigh.”

“Deborah A. Ten Brink, and her husband, Richard, moved to Cape Coral from Michigan in 2004. A few years later, they traded the Cape for Lehigh. Now that they’re preparing for retirement, the Ten Brinks are ready to downsize. They recently sold their Lehigh home - which they bought as an REO and renovated - for just under $130,000. In 2006, the original owners paid $317,000 for the property.”

“‘We had to adjust to reality because when we bought our home, we thought we had so much equity,’ Ten Brink said. ‘With the market the way it is, it’s shocking to a lot of homeowners to find they really don’t have what they think they have.’”

“As prices inch up in the east Lee County community, deals are improving for those who can avoid letting emotional attachment to their homes override the reality of the new residential landscape, Ten Brink said. ‘Even in this market, you can get a fair deal if psychologically you’re prepared for what the real market is,’ she said.”

The Naples News. “Homeowners at Artesia in East Naples feel abandoned by their developer. Though the developer has begun to build again after beating the odds and surviving Chapter 11 bankruptcy, Artesia is in limbo. It’s one of several WCI communities where sales and construction haven’t restarted. WCI has been trying to sell Artesia while it has revived other communities, including Manchester Square less than 16 miles away in North Naples.”

“When Linda Smith and other homeowners in Artesia learned about the launch of Manchester Square earlier this year, it was ‘like a cannon going off in everybody’s head,’ she said. ‘Nobody has any way of rationalizing that decision on their part.’ In Artesia, the clubhouse was never built. The same goes for the swimming pool, the tennis courts and the bike trails. She questions why WCI would invest so much in a new community when it hasn’t completed Artesia: ‘We have nothing,’ she said.”

“Jacqueline Salerno and her husband, both retired, closed on a home in Artesia in January 2008. She recalls the saleswoman telling her the clubhouse and the pool could be finished by that summer.Without the promised amenities, home values have suffered even more in a troubled market, Salerno said. A three-bedroom home that sold for $305,000 a few years ago is now going for $175,000, for example. ‘Unless they do something with this, we will never recoup our money. Never,’ Salerno said.”

The Orlando Sentinel. “Wrenella Pierre is not dead, she insists. Her bank, however, disagrees. In November, Chase Bank USA sent her family a letter of condolence. Pierre and her husband, Curtis, built a home in Oviedo in 2007. They got two mortgages totaling $460,000 from JPMorgan Chase Bank, according to Seminole County records.”

“Two years later, after the home had declined in value, Wrenella Pierre tried five or six times without success to have the mortgage modified, according to her suit. Who, after all, wants to lend money to a dead woman? ‘I don’t know why the bank made this type of disastrous mistake,’ said her attorney, William Peerce Howard of Tampa. ‘There is no possible way to have credit extended when you’re deceased.’”

From WPTV. “As Jamaican immigrants, Clovis Nelson, his wife and their six children wanted to put their roots and their home in South Florida. Nelson said he was ignorant to the details, finding that just months after he signed the paperwork, the mortgage was impossible. ‘I just did not see this as the American dream that I was craving,’ he said. ‘I made several efforts to (negotiate) with them, they just wouldn’t listen…It turned out to be a nightmare,’ he said.”

“Nelson’s case is not in litigation currently. As his lawyer explains, no paperwork from the bank meant no case against him. He is not paying his mortgage and he is hoping for the best. ‘I’m just grateful for the way things are right now, where we are at with this foreclosure, and you know, the possibilities that loom on the horizon,’ he said.”

From CBS 12. “Royal Palm Beach is trying to do something about the eyesores that homes in foreclosure cause. Further, the village doesn’t want taxpayers to get stuck with the cost of maintaining some of these neglected houses. Imagine living across the street from a house that’s in foreclosure, sitting empty. The grass is getting tall, the place starts to look a little untidy.”

“Millie and John Filia are Royal Palm Beach homeowners who live across the street from a home in foreclosure. Millie says ‘it looks awful. We have to look at that.’ John says, ‘it makes you feel like, you know it doesn’t look good for the neighborhood and you wish it would be cleaned up.’”

“Another empty foreclosed home sits a few blocks away from the Filias. The sign in the window tells the story. It reads: ‘Government/bank owned.’ There are holes in the siding, and the home is falling apart. Due to the struggling economy, the Village of Royal Palm Beach has many many places like this one, vacant and in foreclosure. Some say there could be as many as 1000 places just like this one here.”

From TC Palm. “Construction activity is way down in Martin County, as it is throughout the Treasure Coast and Florida, and there is no sign the important industry will rebound in the next year or two, several local business leaders said.”

“‘It will be depressed for several years … because of the overbuilt nature of the industry statewide,’ said Bill Fruth, president of Policom Corp., a Palm City economic consulting company. ‘The supply is significant and until that supply is absorbed, there will not be a return to an active construction market in Southeast Florida.’”

“Stuart Mayor Jeff Krauskopf, a commercial property owner, is among those who don’t expect the construction industry to make a comeback for several years because of the glut of houses working their way through the mortgage foreclosure process and the difficulty retirees from northern states face selling their homes so they can move to the Treasure Coast. ‘I’ve think it’s going take three to five (years),’ Krauskopf said.”

The Herald Tribune. “Mortgage lenders are really taking it on the chin these days. Actually, that has been going on for years. First, we blamed them for the real estate collapse because they were too generous, giving loans to people who didn’t deserve them. Now, we are blaming them for blocking a real estate recovery by being too stingy, denying loans to people who can easily afford the payments.”

“But it’s not entirely their fault, says Sue Stewart, creator and operator of a website that helps borrowers learn about mortgages, prequalifies them for loans and links them to properties they can afford. Lenders are just reacting to the fraud that went on during the real estate boom. Yes, it was fraud that they enabled, and in some cases encouraged, but it was fraud nonetheless. Things like lying on loan applications.”

“‘All the lenders are really covering themselves,’ said Stewart, who spoke recently at the National Association of Real Estate Editors’ convention in San Antonio. ‘Everybody is running panicked,’ she said, ‘and because of the fraud, they are so scared that you are doing something in the background that they are not going to be able to see, and they are going to get stuck’ with a bad loan. When you look at the history of the fraud, more consumers who were buying investment properties said they were owner-occupied … to get the owner-occupied price (interest rate) and the zero-down (payment) or the very low down (payment). They are very, very sensitive to that.’”

“A section of the site creates a prequalification letter that borrowers can print out and take to a real estate agent, so that only affordable houses are shown to the customer. ‘You know what they are getting into.’ In 2005, a lot of people did not know what they were getting into — lenders included.”




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49 Comments »

Comment by wmbz
2011-07-13 06:35:23

‘These prices are so attractive you almost can’t afford not to buy them,’ Joe says.”

Really? Good luck Joe.

Comment by oxide
2011-07-13 07:53:54

Meanwhile, in the DC area, the rents are so unattractive you almost can’t afford not to buy something else. I can pick up something VERY nice for the the same PITI that I’m paying in rent.

Comment by wolfgirl
2011-07-13 09:03:05

But is it a good deal if youj don’t plan to stay in the area?

Comment by oxide
2011-07-14 04:24:08

Heavens no! It’s only a good deal if you have a stable job with a good income for 10+ years, and are willing to live one tier below your income.

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Comment by DennisN
2011-07-13 08:17:08

The kicker in that article is this….

[salesman] Hagan says while condos are in demand, it’s the consumers who are setting the price.

“You could say that this unit is worth $500,000 but consumers aren’t willing to pay $500,000, so you’re not going to sell it,” said Hagan.

Almost sounds honest. But then again he’s a NHS, not a UHS.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-07-13 08:38:50

I think I can afford NOT to spend $300k. Oh, wait. I don’t HAVE $300k to spend.

Looks like that problem’s solved.

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-07-13 07:17:48

Many condos are worth ZERO or even less than zero (yes - they should pay you to assume ownership.

I hope buyers are factoring in HOA fees, HOA special assessments, taxes, utilities, insurance (up big) and upkeep.

There is alot more to the cost of a condo than just the selling price…

Comment by Ol'Bubba
2011-07-13 08:23:36

Taking this a step further, a buyer should consider that not all units will be paying their monthly HOA fees. This means that the fixed operating expenses of the total complex will be bourne by the few.

 
Comment by wmbz
2011-07-13 09:07:40

“HOA special assessments”

Having owned two condos in the distant past I can say with 100% certainty that a special assessment if a sure thing. You can bet they can hit the pocketbook hard sometimes.

Comment by palmetto
2011-07-13 09:32:50

Been there, done that. What really hurts is when a particularly dimwitted board hits you up for a special assessment, hands out an up front deposit “for materials” to a shyster contractor who takes off and never does a lick of work. Then comes the second special assessment, LMAO, to cover the lost funds because it’s cheaper than suing.

Never again.

 
 
 
Comment by redrum
2011-07-13 07:20:31

“rock-bottom prices of recent years are still waiting for investors looking to cash in.”

If the last few years have taught us anything, it’s that cashing in is easy. It’s cashing out that’s proven to be a little more difficult.

 
Comment by 2banana
2011-07-13 07:22:46

‘I just did not see this as the American dream that I was craving,’ he said. ‘I made several efforts to (negotiate) with them, they just wouldn’t listen…It turned out to be a nightmare,’ he said.”

“Nelson’s case is not in litigation currently. As his lawyer explains, no paperwork from the bank meant no case against him. He is not paying his mortgage and he is hoping for the best. ‘I’m just grateful for the way things are right now, where we are at with this foreclosure, and you know, the possibilities that loom on the horizon,’ he said.”

Looks like he IS living the American dream.

Something for nothing…

 
Comment by aNYCdj
 
Comment by snake charmer
2011-07-13 07:37:46

I hope the Joe Rutter from the first article is not this guy, but the statement “you can’t afford not to buy” sure sounds like someone with an ulterior motive:

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/joe-rutter/5/37b/4b8

The condo building in the picture is representative of what was built during the bubble period here. Fungible, brutal, and ultimately disgusting. And people stood in line to buy that!

Other than hospitals, there still is very little in southwest Florida that doesn’t directly or indirectly depend on the propagation of sprawl. It’s not a good bet.

 
Comment by palmetto
2011-07-13 07:42:26

“‘The expectation is that they can still get the $20,000 price range and that’s just gone,’ said Diane Turrill, a broker with Real Estate Executives in Lehigh.”

Yeah, but it’s coming baaaack, Diane baby.

 
Comment by palmetto
2011-07-13 07:48:23

“In Artesia, the clubhouse was never built. The same goes for the swimming pool, the tennis courts and the bike trails.”

I’m shocked, I tell you, shocked! Happened here, too, in at least one of the bubble communities. No pool, no clubhouse. But hey, it’s still got FBs paying on quarter million dollar mortgages while houses next door and across the street sell for $90,000 or less. And that’s if they even sell. They’ve got (gasp) RENTERS living there. What a clusterfark.

Comment by snake charmer
2011-07-13 08:04:07

Even in those places where they were built, the value of pools, clubhouses, “nature trails,” and the like is greatly overrated. How many people use those things regularly? Do they have any function other than to serve as a justification for higher home prices and homeowner’s association fees?

Here’s a radical suggestion: this is Florida and people would much rather go to the #&$^@*% beach.

Comment by palmetto
2011-07-13 08:10:44

“this is Florida and people would much rather go to the #&$^@*% beach.”

Depends where you live and what the beaches are like nearby. I wouldn’t dip my toe in the huge toilet known as the Gulf of Mexico. I don’t eat fish out of it, either, if I can help it. The “beach” around here is on Tampa Bay, even worse.

Me, I like a pool. And there’s three of them right here where I live, two indoor and one outdoor. If there were any decent springs around here, I’d frequent those, but Lithia Springs, which used to be nice, sucks profusely. The old swimming hole on the Manatee River has closed due to development.

Comment by palmetto
2011-07-13 08:28:54

But here’s the real kicker that I don’t think has penetrated the dim noggins of some of these FBs: the USDA and other subsidized housing complexes, rentals included, have THEIR swimming pools, clubhouses, tot lots and even jitney services for their residents.

That’s gotta hurt. Yes, folks, while you’re sweating to pay that quarter of a mil mortgage in a much-ballyhooed subdivision where your neighbor either paid less than half what you did for his place, or is renting, and you don’t have your pool and clubhouse, be comforted by the fact that your taxes have provided the amenities YOU don’t have to the inmates of the subsidized housing complexes.

And palmy thanks you for helping those less fortunate than you. This is one of the many “sacrifices” of which Obama has spoken. You’ve bent over and taken it like a real American. Well done. And tell your children. Take them over to one of those complexes so they can see how the other half lives.

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Comment by palmetto
2011-07-13 08:54:35

My schadenfreude meter is pinned all the way over, you bareass believe it.

I frequently run into FBs from these developments, and I’ve never brought up the subsidized housing angle to them because I never thought about it before. Maybe I will now. Like this:

(In a shocked, sympathethic tone): “That’s unbelievable. And the taxes you pay go to subsidize the folks who live in Mammary Manor, etc. and you should SEE the pool there, it’s lovely and the children playing so nicely at the tot lot. You mean to say you appealed to the county commission and they couldn’t compel the developer, but they could use your tax money for Mammary Manor? Shameful. I’m shocked, I tell you, SHOCKED! Hmm, well, is your kid in school around here? He is? Well, maybe one of his classmates from Mammary Manor could have him over for a swim or something.”

 
 
 
Comment by BetterRenter
2011-07-13 11:10:09

I’ve gotta say the thing that must be said, since 99.5% of the MSM won’t say it: Those reserved public places are greatly valued since there’s zero chance of you or your kids ever encountering a Black person in them. It doesn’t matter if you only walk the nature trail once per year; the way it’s been set up, you will never see a Black face along that walk. That’s what sparked the massive build-out in the suburbs and exoburbs: Whites avoiding Blacks completely.

Blacks are so hated in the USA in a great simmering undercurrent, that Whites will pay monstrous amounts of money to avoid them. If there were no Blacks in the nation, there wouldn’t have been a housing bubble at all, really.

Comment by Carl Morris
2011-07-13 12:27:58

Wow. When I hear stuff like this I always wonder what the percentage of people out there is that really believes this sort of thing? I do think that the middle class takes pains and pays money to avoid ghetto culture, but I reject that it’s a skin color thing…except for a few weird people. The black middle class and the white middle class both want the same thing as far as I can tell.

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Comment by Insurance Guy
2011-07-13 12:39:51

My house that I purchase in 1999 is in a “mixed neigborhood”. It is great with school teachers on both sides and they are black. Just nice, nice people. Lots of young people, pets, talkative older folks. Wonderful stuff.

And I think my house was a great bargain. I paid 1/3 of what I would have paid for a house in the area in an all white area

 
Comment by palmetto
2011-07-13 12:52:50

I dunno, most of the bubble developments around here are definitely multi-racial. In fact, one of the folks I spoke with who is paying a on a quarter mil house is African American upper middle class and he’s just fit to be tied and I don’t blame him. I’d be pretty pissed myself. We had quite a confab about the whole thing and he’s seriously looking into walking away, and he’s not the only one. We had a LOT of middle and upper middle class African Americans relocate around here, still relocating. Some are delighted to be getting in on the falling prices, just like Anglo Americans. Many in the military and government and what have you, nice families, etc. Pretty big mix and everyone seems to get along. Haven’t been any racial incidents that I know of.

The problem is, they didn’t get their amenities (they’re called common areas, they’re not public, but strictly for the residents and their guests). I’d say everyone’s getting an equal opportunity hosing.

Just remember, the only color that really matters is the long green and if you’ve got any, the banksters and builders go crazy trying to figure out how to part you from it.

 
Comment by palmetto
2011-07-13 13:13:34

“Blacks are so hated in the USA in a great simmering undercurrent,”

Wow, I don’t know how you can even say that. I mean, Anglos fall all over themselves NOT to give even the least appearance of racism and are constantly flagellating themselves over a situation that NO ONE today was alive for and had anything to do with. The media goes out of its way NOT to report race when crimes are involved. Yeah, there are some cranky bloggers and such, but they’re just the usual suspects.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-07-13 13:38:35

Ahhhh Exactly……so why don’t white people demand those ghetto folks read, write and speak English?

It really IS the only difference between a great school and a failing school…

——-
I do think that the middle class takes pains and pays money to avoid ghetto culture,

 
 
Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Fl)
2011-07-13 12:42:27

But, in spite of the fact that I would like to avoid them completely, as you suggest, and I would agree, here are some facts from yesterdays Article on Blacks in government. They get ALL the benefits:
African-Americans are disproportionately the beneficiaries of federal programs, from the Earned Income Tax Credit to aid for education and student loans, they are even more over-represented in the federal workforce than they are on state payrolls.

Though 10 percent of the U.S. civilian labor force, African-Americans are 18 percent of U.S. government workers. They are 25 percent of the employees at Treasury and Veterans Affairs, 31 percent of the State Department, 37 percent of Department of Education employees and 38 percent of Housing and Urban Development. They are 42 percent of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., 55 percent of the employees at the Government Printing Office and 82 percent at the Court Services and Offender Supervision Agency.

So, don’t worry about it, they’ll be moving in soon, as they are the only group with guaranteed income. They will continue to grow their benefits while the rest of us who might still have a job get to pay for it.

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Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Fl)
2011-07-13 13:00:37

Oh, but i left out the best part. The part about HOUSING.
Remember all the Fannie and Freddie loans that all went into default, and how the papers accused them of “targeting” blacks and “minorities” in their lending, etc, etc. Well, the odds are a “person of color” was in on the loan application and review:

When the Obama administration suggested shutting down Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage giants whose losses of $150 billion have had to be made up by taxpayers, The Washington Post warned, in a story headlined, “Winding Down Fannie and Freddie Could Put Minority Careers at Risk,” that 44 percent of Fannie employees and 50 percent of Freddie’s were persons of color.

Seems as though the real story is here. It was an “inside job”. It just didn’t work out too well.

 
Comment by palmetto
2011-07-13 13:01:20

“82 percent at the Court Services and Offender Supervision Agency.”

Seriously? I remember when folks used to complain how Anglo Americans were over-represented.

 
Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Fl)
2011-07-13 13:20:39

That’s why the Federal Government set up the EEOC. The object has been to “get the white out”. They have succeeded.
One question? Is the Country better off? If you are Black, then I guess so. As for the Nation as a whole, I would say not.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-07-13 13:56:25

Well, if you’ve never seen a black hiker before, have I got a video for you…

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Comment by 2banana
2011-07-13 18:09:18

The riots and forced school busing of the 1970’s brought about white flight to suburbia.

Today - I have seen many an article about middle class black flight to suburbia.

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Comment by 2banana
2011-07-13 18:21:49

Looks like those who stayed are doing OK also:

Black Incomes Surpass Whites in Queens
New York Times | October 1, 2006 | SAM ROBERTS

In Queens, the median income among black households, nearing $52,000 a year, has surpassed that of whites…

The gains among blacks in Queens, the city’s quintessential middle-class borough, were driven largely by the growth of two-parent families…

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Comment by DennisN
2011-07-13 08:14:11

It’s amazing to me that Florida allows developers to sell houses before doing any work on the commons areas: landscaping, clubhouses, pools, etc. Here in Boise the commons areas get built FIRST before any houses are sold. I don’t know if that’s by statute or by jawboning from the county permit people. In fact the developers use the clubhouse as their sales office prior to any significant number of houses being built. The county water suppliers also don’t want homeowners using potable water to water their yards, so developers also have to get a pressurized irrigation water system up and running from day one.

Comment by Realtors Are Liars
2011-07-13 08:44:12

It’s called front loading the project. They build first whatever they can get paid the most for.

It seems the FL zoning officials are on the take too. I wonder how many of them are realtors?

 
Comment by palmetto
2011-07-13 08:44:32

“It’s amazing to me that Florida allows developers to sell houses before doing any work on the commons areas: landscaping, clubhouses, pools, etc. Here in Boise the commons areas get built FIRST before any houses are sold.”

B-b-but, this is FLORIDA, where developers and builders are king and call the shots. This would not amaze you if you lived here and could see what developers get away with.

At the height of the bubble, there was a story on the local Fox affiliate, of all place, about a developer planning a huge development over ancient, existing sinkholes. They even had a shot of him with his plans all spread out on a table, showing the swiss-cheese substrate. His argument was that these sinkholes below the surface were OLD and had been that way for centuries and the surface was still intact. Of course, nothing had been built there, either. Once you start with roadways and homes and other infrastructure, what happens is anyone’s guess. But the fact that the issue was even under debate was incredible to me.

I don’t think anything was ever built, the downturn started, so as far as I know it went by the boards, but had it been built, do you think any of the prospective buyers would have been informed of the substrate?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-07-13 09:38:55

His argument was that these sinkholes below the surface were OLD and had been that way for centuries and the surface was still intact.

Volcanoes are OLD too.

And darn those volcanoes. They have this inconvenient habit of going dormant, then coming back to life. Case in point: Mount St. Helens.

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Comment by DennisN
2011-07-13 09:40:45

Here’s an example from Boise. This subdivision is about a mile down the road from me. It started up around 2007…really bad timing on their part. Right now it only has houses on about 1/3 of the finished lots. But as you can see from the photos all the amenities are in place and maintained.

http://www.hazelwoodvillage.com/

 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2011-07-13 07:59:26

“She recalls the saleswoman telling her the clubhouse and the pool could be finished by that summer.”

don’t say it, exeter, please. don’t. say. it……(groan).

Comment by Realtors Are Liars
2011-07-13 08:13:45

So the realtor lied. It’s typical for realtors to lie. Telling the truth is entirely out of character for realtors.

Why?

Comment by palmetto
2011-07-13 08:16:46

GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

 
Comment by snake charmer
2011-07-13 09:56:47

That’s not going to change until buyers learn to distinguish fact from a sales pitch. I’m not holding my breath. Our state motto should be caveat emptor.

Comment by Realtors Are Liars
2011-07-13 10:33:56

“That’s not going to change until buyers learn to distinguish fact from a sales pitch.”

BINGO

The steady stream of uninformed, unarmed buyers has slowed but they’re still out there. Until buyers finally STOP tipping their hand to a realtor, the realtor crime syndicate will live on.

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Comment by doom
2011-07-13 08:55:17

lenders scared to committ to a loan why?
Very simple, you have a substantial down payment, money in the bank, you have a stable job or business, you have collateral, you get the loan.
Known of this was done during the housing crisis thus the bubble burst require the above no need to be scared unless they want another bubble on their hands?

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2011-07-13 09:43:34

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=189922

Corrupt Florida courts abet bank foreclosure fraud, obstruct justice.

Comment by palmetto
2011-07-13 11:19:25

Thanks, Sammy, I’m on it. Just got off the phone with my Florida rep’s office. She was aware of the story, but said I was the first constituent to call about it. Of course, I got the usual “That’s the AG’s office, we have nothing to do with who they hire and fire”. But I said it was their job to represent me to other members of Government, like the AG, who I just can’t pick up the phone and call.

So they agreed to communicate on the matter.

Comment by Muggy
2011-07-13 16:38:12

People are hitting up her FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/pambondi

Comment by palmetto
2011-07-13 17:31:36

Too funny. Thanks, Muggy. Great link.

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Comment by Muggy
2011-07-13 16:27:33

I am once again very happy that our last round of house shopping resulted in no house buying.

 
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