August 11, 2011

Sellers Are Asking, ‘What Do We Do Now?’

The Detroit News reports from Michigan. “Boyne City, on the banks of Lake Charlevoix in the northwest Lower Peninsula is seeing a burst of vacation home construction even as it grapples with a glut of properties for sale. There are plans to build condominiums on the lake’s edge and another marina and condominium development on the edge of the city. About 60 percent of the homes in Boyne are cottage residences — meaning they are not the owner’s primary residence and are used mainly for vacation. ‘There’s just a lot of painful stories to be told,’ said Monica Ross, a longtime Realtor in the area. ‘Many people lost homes that should have never been able to buy homes in the first place.’”

“Richard Moden bought a property 11 years ago with his two brothers just outside Boyne City. ‘It’s a good thing we love it because we would lose money if we had to sell it now,’ said Moden.”

“The northeastern counties near Lake Huron have seen much lower second-home sales. ‘It’s horrible,’ said Debbie Artrip, broker owner of Cardinal Real Estate in Onaway. Artrip used to sell vacation homes but now is in the foreclosure business because that’s where the sales are. She said about 10 percent to 15 percent of vacation homes in her area are foreclosing. Metro Detroit customers, who comprised about 80 percent of Artrip’s business, no longer can afford vacation homes, she said.’

“‘When they lost their income, lost their jobs, we lost their money,’ Artrip said.”

The New Indian Express. “To put a handle on the fears of a global recession set off by the week-ago debt ceiling reset in the US, it makes sense to trace one’s way back to the US housing bubble. Let’s trace the house buying/selling pattern of a desi American couple over the last decade. George Jacob, a second generation US citizen, and his wife bought a house in a down-to-middle market suburb in Detroit in 2001 at a mortgage of $200,000. When they sold it in 2005 just before the real estate rates peaked out, it was at a $50,000 premium. That is when they decided to move up to an upmarket suburb in Michigan and went in for a $400,000 mansion.”

“Four years down the line, the Jacobs were forced to sell their house at $290,000 and relocated to Ohio. There they purchased a bigger house at $345,000 — one that was valued at $540,000 in 2005. Now, the Jacobs have put up their Ohio house for sale at $390,000. They are moving to Houston, Texas. Jacob, who currently shuttling between Ohio and Houston, as he tries to balance the sale of one house and the purchase of another in two different economic zones in the US, says: ‘In Houston, there seems to be a real estate boom on as perhaps the rates never sky-rocketed in the first half of the last decade; hence neither did they crash.’”

“Not all have been as lucky. There are many of Indians/people of Indian origin who have lost their houses in foreclosure, especially those who bought their second and third houses for investment purposes. None of these things have come to pass in India. The real estate sector, despite its periodic sullen moods, seems to be forever on a swagger. And the sector players are laughing all the way to the bank as investors keep flocking despite the unrealistic rates ruling across the country. And there appears no realty bubble in the making in India that is ready to burst in the immediate future.”

The Herald Bulletin in Indiana. “Vacant houses are visible throughout Anderson and Madison County. Michael Widing, the city’s planning and building director, believes that a lot of the vacant houses in Anderson are eyesores and buildings people don’t want. But that’s not always the case. Todd Freer has had his South Edgewood house on the market for five months. The four-bedroom 2,100-square-foot home has been completely redone inside and out and has two new bathrooms. Freer, who has moved into an Anderson house, frequently checks on his vacant property and has it mowed weekly so it remains in good condition. It is move-in ready, but he hasn’t had any takers.”

“‘A lot of the problem is the inventory is high,’ he said. ‘I’ve had two open houses where 12 or so people went through. I’ve had interest, but there are so many options in such a wide range of prices because of foreclosures.’”

“In Freer’s neighborhood alone, at least 10 or 11 homes are for sale. Freer has already reduced his asking price three times to the mid-$130,000s. A nearby home of similar size and condition just sold for a lot less. ‘I’ve put thousands of dollars into it and now I’m asking below what I paid for it,’ he said.”

The Pioneer Press in Minnesota. “This year, real estate observers are seeing more of those bidding wars that were a hallmark of the high-flying days of the housing market as the price peaked in 2006. But it’s hardly a sign that the housing market is heating up. Rock-bottom prices are behind the competition among serious buyers.”

“‘Even on traditional sales, prices are down somewhat, not nearly as bad as the distressed (home prices), but people are looking at this as an opportunity to move into a nice neighborhood and get a house at a historically low-level price,’ said Herb Tousley, director of real estate programs at the University of St. Thomas.”

“Sara Trembath and her husband, Travis, took the advice of their agents, Mary and Jim Sommerfield, and shopped the competition before listing their Southwest Minneapolis house in Linden Hills at $349,900 on July 26. In less than a week, they had two offers and signed a purchase agreement on Monday. They bought the house a few years ago for $328,500, and the final offer is for several thousand more. Their agents asked that the exact offer price be withheld since the deal won’t close until September.”

“‘The second offer came in on Monday night and we were, honest to God, sitting at the kitchen table signing the paperwork and the first offer called back,’ Sara Trembath said. ‘They came up but didn’t come up as high as the second offer.’”

“The Trembaths won’t break even given home improvements they’ve made but are happy with the speedy outcome since they had their second child last week and are planning a move to Jacksonville, Fla., for a job he’s taking.”

The Kansas City Star. “Welcome to the Kansas City housing market at the peak of the 2011 season — scattered bright spots, particularly on the upper end, and lingering shadows over much of the rest. There were 17,308 houses on the market in June in metropolitan Kansas City, a 9.8-month supply at the current sales rate, according to the Realtors Association, which does not count homes for sale by owner.”

“In some ways, it’s a tale of two worlds. ‘The upper bracket is unthawing a little bit,’ said Jerry Reece, president of Reece and Nichols. And some of the hotter-selling new subdivisions are for homes selling for $400,000 and up.”

“Then there’s the world that Jerri Moulder, an agent with Keller Williams, is familiar with. She sells homes in the Northland area in the ‘mid-family’ range, from about $90,000 to $250,000. Values have dropped over the past couple of years, forcing people to either short sell or bring cash to the table to cover the difference between the sales price and what remains on the loan. ‘At least 50 percent of my last six transactions involved sellers bringing cash to the closing,’ she said.”

“Russ Bouknight, an agent with Reece and Nichols based in Liberty, has been busy specializing in short sales. He estimated he’s done almost 450 since the recession began in late 2007 and 28 so far this year. He said he’s seeing people ‘who cashed in on their equity and are now trying to sell their house. The market has dropped and they have zero percent equity in their home.’”

“If the seller can prove his financial situation is truly desperate, banks will accept a short sale and lose some money upfront rather than be stuck foreclosing on a house, Bouknight said. Short sales are pretty much all the transactions he does these days, and Bouknight believes it will continue as long as there’s a large inventory of foreclosed homes.”

“‘Sellers didn’t want to believe they lost 15 to 20 percent of their equity, but now owners are realizing this and asking, ‘What do we do now?’ he said.”




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29 Comments »

Comment by 2banana
2011-08-11 07:48:16

“‘Sellers didn’t want to believe they lost 15 to 20 percent of their equity, but now owners are realizing this and asking, ‘What do we do now?’ he said.”

Lower your price
Walk away
Declare bankruptcy
Try for a short sale
Go for some of obama’s stash
Become a landlord

More?

Comment by AV0CAD0
2011-08-11 10:57:15

Stop paying mortgage, live for free, save $$, move once evicted.

Comment by Lesser Fool
2011-08-11 13:39:10

Don’t move unless you’re paid to not trash the place.

 
 
Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2011-08-11 12:53:02

Let prices crash, stop builders from adding even more supply, stop the massive oversupply of housing and unrepayable debt from getting even worse?

 
 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-08-11 08:09:17

“….almost 450 since the recession began…..28 so far this year…..”

And Liberty is one of the “better” suburbs in the KC area.

Good luck selling those foreclosed homes to all those new $12/hr UAW workers at the Claycomo Ford F-150 plant. Unless they can supplement their income by working part-time at “Worlds/Oceans of Fun”

Comment by b-hamster
2011-08-11 08:47:00

Welcome to the new $12/hr economy. From the DOL/BLS web site for projected job growth from 2008-2018:

Occupations, Number of new jobs (in thousands)
Wages (May 2008 median), Education/training category

Registered nurses, 581.5
$ 62,450, Associate degree

Home health aides, 460.9
$ 20,460, Short-term on-the-job training

Customer service representatives, 399.5
$ 29,860, Moderate-term on-the-job training

Combined food preparation and serving workers, including fast food, 394.3
$ 16,430, Short-term on-the-job training

Personal and home care aides, 375.8
$ 19,180, Short-term on-the-job training

Retail salespersons, 374.7
$ 20,510, Short-term on-the-job training

Office clerks, general, 358.7
$ 25,320, Short-term on-the-job training

Accountants and auditors, 279.4
$ 59,430, Bachelor’s degree

Nursing aides, orderlies, and attendants, 276.0
$ 23,850, Postsecondary vocational award

Postsecondary teachers, 256.9
$ 58,830, Doctoral degree

Construction laborers, 255.9
$ 28,520, Moderate-term on-the-job training

Elementary school teachers, except special education, 244.2
$ 49,330, Bachelor’s degree

Truck drivers, heavy and tractor-trailer, 232.9
$ 37,270, Short-term on-the-job training

Landscaping and groundskeeping workers, 217.1
$ 23,150, Short-term on-the-job training

Bookkeeping, accounting, and auditing clerks, 212.4
$ 32,510, Moderate-term on-the-job training

Executive secretaries and administrative assistants, 204.4
$ 40,030, Work experience in a related occupation

Management analysts, 178.3
$ 73,570, Bachelor’s or higher degree, plus work experience

Computer software engineers, applications, 175.1
$ 85,430, Bachelor’s degree

Receptionists and information clerks, 172.9
$ 24,550, Short-term on-the-job training

Carpenters, 165.4
$ 38,940, Long-term on-the-job training

 
 
Comment by Montana
2011-08-11 08:42:40

desi American

what is that?

Comment by Eggman
2011-08-11 10:40:49

The term “desi” comes from the word “des” (homeland) in both Hindi and Urdu. “Desi” means “of the homeland” and denotes anything or anyone from South Asia.

 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2011-08-11 08:51:14

“The Trembaths won’t break even given home improvements they’ve made but are happy with the speedy outcome since they had their second child last week and are planning a move to Jacksonville, Fla., for a job he’s taking.”

__________________________/

The first part of that sentence is the important one. Because they used a realtor to sell, this is even more of a minus transaction, although they are fortunate to have found a buyer and are avoiding what is likely to be a bigger loss in the future.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-08-11 09:55:21

ISTR that home improvements were done for the primary reason that you wanted to make your place more enjoyable. In my own family, that’s why my mom had the kitchen redone back, oh, around 40 years ago.

She decided that her culinary jones could better be handled with a dual oven and a countertop stove. So, she went for it. Paid cash for the whole job, and the whole setup’s still working fine after all these years.

Then, a few years later, she decided that it was time for central air conditioning. So, that’s what the house got. She’s had to have the air cooling and blowing part of the system replaced, but AFAIK, it’s still using the house’s original ductwork.

Oh, note how the word “investment” did not get used in the above paragraphs.

 
 
Comment by erik
2011-08-11 08:54:19

Got some underwater friends who tried selling their house in early 2009 at a 20% markup on what they paid in late 2004. Didn’t happen and they rejected some lowball offers that would have gotten them out in one piece…weren’t about to give it away you know.
fast forward 30 months into being accidental landlords with a couple vacancy periods and one tenant walking on the lease halfway through a year lease. They’ve learned hard truths about “we’ll just keep it as a rental”, that landlording from 2000 miles away isn’t so great. Should have taken one of those lowballs while they could, but now after 2 plus years of putting up $500 month boot to cover the discrepancy between rent and mortgage, they’re in default for several months and their tenants don’t know yet….
That’s the game being played by many these days…pride goeth before the fall.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-08-11 10:00:07

They’ve learned hard truths about “we’ll just keep it as a rental”, that landlording from 2000 miles away isn’t so great.

As if landlording in the same city is a bowl of cherries. It isn’t.

And to think that I spent zero money to find this out. For almost 13 years, I rented from a lady who had four houses and a duplex. (I lived in the front of the duplex.)

When she got onto one of her “It’s a bad rental market!” rants, I was all ears. She was referring to Tucson’s rental market, and, in her world, “bad” meant that the rents weren’t anything that would make an SFR landlord rich. The word “bad” also applied to a lot of the tenants out there.

Then there was the public library. Another stop on my free education tour.

The library has books like Leigh Robinson’s Landlording. It’s 400 pages long. If you don’t feel like reading this big, long book, use it to bop yourself over the head. That should cure you of any desire to be an accidental landlord.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-08-11 10:26:25

“they’re in default for several months and their tenants don’t know yet….”

In other words, they are finally acting in their own rational self-interest.

Pocketing the rent while the bank takes its sweet time about foreclosing is the only way to reduce their losses.

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-08-11 10:43:31

The higher education bubble has popped
Christian Science Monitor | Aug 10, 2011 | Doug French

A college degree once looked to be the path to prosperity. In an article for TechCrunch, Sarah Lacy writes, “Like the housing bubble, the education bubble is about security and insurance against the future. Both whisper a seductive promise into the ears of worried Americans: Do this and you will be safe.”

But the jobs that made higher education pay off during the inflationary boom, kicked into high gear by Nixon waving goodbye to the last shreds of a gold standard, came primarily from government and finance.

In 1990, 6.4 million people worked for federal, state, and local governments. By 2010, that number had grown almost 6 times — to 38.3 million — with many of these jobs being white-collar.

In 1990, the financial sector was less than 7.5 percent of the S&P 500. By 2006, this sector had grown to 22.3 percent of the S&P, and that year the financial sector constituted 45 percent of the index’s earnings.

In the United States, 80,000 bartenders as well as 317,000 waiters and waitresses have college degrees. Nearly a quarter of all retail salespersons have a college degree. In all, 17 million Americans with college degrees are working at jobs that do not require a bachelor’s degree.

And because they can’t find jobs, 85 percent of college grads move back in with their parents after they graduate. According to a poll by Twentysomething Inc., a marketing and research firm based in Philadelphia, that rate has steadily risen from 67 percent in 2006.

And while law grads can’t find work, law schools are enrolling more students than ever before at tuition rates of $40,000+ a year. Segal explains that law-school tuition has increased at 4 times the rate of undergraduate education, which itself has increased 4 times the CPI. “From 1989 to 2009, when college tuition rose by 71 percent, law school tuition shot up 317 percent.”

Comment by Steve J
2011-08-11 13:37:56

I think popping of the education bubble would involve tuition going back down to say, 1999 levels.

Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2011-08-11 19:46:34

Sigh. I recently found a receipt from my college years — $99/quarter.

Comment by timmy
2011-08-11 22:47:20

Graduated in 1990… state college tuition = $450/semester (now is $2750)…. community college was just $50/semester

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2011-08-11 12:49:11

“it makes sense to trace one’s way back to the US housing bubble.”

Wrong. You are then just looking at one of many symptoms.

Let’s go back further. No, the tech/stock bubble. No, the junk bond bubble. No, the real estate bubble that caused the S&L collapse….

All symptoms.

It all goes back to the 1970s, job offshoring, union busting, cheap imports. All were lowering wages which was feeding back into falling demand. Along comes Ronnie Raygun and deregulates banking, gets debt flowing and we attempt to switch to a supply-side constrained economy instead of a demand-side constrained economy.

For 30 years debt gorws at 3x the sustainable rate, causing ever larger and more destructive speculative bubbles fueled by attempts to shove ever more debt into the economy.

Now the debt needs to go away. If it doesn’t go away by reversing the trade imbalances that created in, then it will go away in a cascade default of uncollected debts and moning disappearing into the thin-air from which the debt created it.

History is very clear about what happens when we attempt to maintain trade imbalances through debt. Eventully, the debt goes pop.

Comment by 2banana
2011-08-11 13:31:31

Along comes Ronnie Raygun and deregulates banking,

Sorry - happened under Clinton. The repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999

If you are going to have a left wing rant - at least get your facts straight…

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-08-11 15:39:45

“The repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act”

It was not Glass-Steagall that he was referring to. The S&L Crisis was due to lack of regulatory oversight, and that did change significantly under Reagan.

For more info, please see the “Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act (DIDMCA) of 1980″, available on your friendly wikipedia.

 
 
 
Comment by Steve J
2011-08-11 13:22:13

And there appears no realty bubble in the making in India that is ready to burst in the immediate future.

=========

Phew! I was worried, but now I am not.

 
Comment by Dave
2011-08-11 13:45:56

Question for the readers of this blog….you’ve had your heads totally immersed in this for a while. What’s your opinion of current market values in Beaumont, California?

It ain’t paradise, but it’s a typical California desert community…mostly underwater middle class.

The charts for this area all seem to say the prices aren’t going to fall much further. Whaddya think?

Comment by 2banana
2011-08-11 15:30:37

Easy to figure.

Figure out average rent (Chamber of Congress) and average household income (census).

Since you are in the sticks - should be on the lower end:

Housing price = 2-2.5 x household yearly income
Housing price = 100-120 x monthly rent

 
Comment by oxide
2011-08-12 04:17:27

You almost lost me at “California.”

You really lost me at “desert.”

I refuse to even look at a desert unless and until somebody pays me to do it.

 
 
Comment by erik
2011-08-11 17:23:41

Drove up through the desert in a car with no name, passing through Victorville and Adelanto on RT. 395. The very worst of the exurban housing bubble is on display there..miles of big cheap houses crammed together in the simmering desert. One sees some partially burnt out and boarded up, others boarded up and vacant. In a few more years that area will look like commercial strips on old Rt. 66 looked after I-40 bypassed them. Gosh, who knew? That marginally solvent people couldn’t afford to buy big overpriced trashy houses way out in the desert and commute 80 miles one way to jobs in LA? Anyone here have stats about percentage of those cribs purchased with Alt-A, pick-a-payment, mortgages?

For the Bay area, it’s beautiful garden spot, Manteca, the town whose name means “lard”…First saw the housing clusters in Manteca back in 2005 and it gave me the willies to see so many people hung out to dry at the end of such a long logistics train.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-08-11 18:29:52

I liked Victorville when the Roy Rogers Museum was the attraction. Didn’t like seeing Bullet stuffed on display though.

 
Comment by Dave
2011-08-13 15:52:54

I pass through that area rather regularly as well…..absolutely amazing to watch the collapse happen real time on the billboards lining the sides of the road.

Could have sworn they started in the middle 300’s…..now they’re begging for 80 grand.

 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-08-11 18:31:14

“The upper bracket is unthawing ”

Well, divide the average IQ by 2 and wonder what unthawing means.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2011-08-11 20:20:45

“When they sold it in 2005 just before the real estate rates peaked out, it was at a $50,000 premium. That is when they decided to move up to an upmarket suburb in Michigan and went in for a $400,000 mansion.”

“Four years down the line, the Jacobs were forced to sell their house at $290,000 and relocated to Ohio. There they purchased a bigger house at $345,000 — one that was valued at $540,000 in 2005. Now, the Jacobs have put up their Ohio house for sale at $390,000.”

Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other.

– Benjamin Franklin –

 
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