For Many, This Reality Show Has An Unhappy Ending
The Casper Journal reports from Wyoming. “If you’re looking for something to make you feel positive, you might consider Wyoming’s economy. And if you’re looking for a person with a good handle on Wyoming’s economy, you might just talk with Mark Zaback, CEO of Jonah Bank of Wyoming, and who serves on the Denver Branch of the Federal Reserve Board. ‘You don’t have as many foreclosures going on in Casper or the state,’ Zaback said. He said there are pockets; Teton County has been hit hard but it’s a county that experienced a lot of appreciation as a resort area. He thinks the resort areas have all been hit hard because so of many second homes.”
“‘People can’t afford it and have lost their places,’ which Zaback said may be more of a reflection of the economy in other places than in Teton County.”
From NBC Montana. “Housing prices in Bozeman have fallen to nearly six percent lower than the national average. President of the Gallatin Association of Realtors, Rich Mayo, explains, ‘I think probably the downward pressure from short sales and foreclosures has a dramatic affect on that.’”
“Mayo says that because unemployment rates in Montana are still fairly high, it causes the prices of homes to stay lower and more affordable. ‘As long as we have banks foreclosing on homes and people short-selling homes and doing that kind of things it’s gonna continue to drive the market down,’ he added.”
The Idaho Statesman. “Homes in foreclosure accounted for 30 percent of residential housing sales in Idaho during the second quarter, Realtytrac reported. They amounted to an 8 percent increase over the second quarter of 2010. Lance Churchill, who specializes in investing in foreclosures, said banks are slowly putting more distressed properties on the Valley market.”
“‘There are a couple of million homes (nationwide) in default, but are still not in foreclosure,’ Churchill says. ‘So you can expect the number of filings to start to go back up again.’”
The Spokesman Review on Idaho. “Parcels within Post Falls Landing, a project billed for years as a downtown-style community, are being sold at a trustee’s sale this December. The development, which includes a 142-slip marina and dozens of condos, is still largely unfinished. The troubled development is the latest in a string of ambitious North Idaho projects that were foiled when the economy collapsed in the fall of 2008.”
“It is considered ‘vital to the success’ of Post Falls’ City Center plan and viewed as a catalyst that will influence future development, according to the Post Falls Urban Renewal Agency.”
The Oregonian. “Oregon is one of 24 states that allow nonjudicial foreclosures, provided lenders give borrowers proper notice, publicize the sale and abide by other requirements. But late last year, federal judges began blocking them, ruling that lenders had failed to follow one of those requirements: filing the mortgage’s ownership history in county records.”
“No one can say how many of the estimated 26,000 foreclosures pending in Oregon will ultimately land in front of a judge. But attorneys and trustees involved in both processes say hundreds of files are being reviewed. Pam Laxson, a real estate agent whose home in Sandy is in foreclosure, said a Fidelity National Title Insurance Co. representative said her file was among 600 being transferred to attorneys for judicial foreclosure.”
“Laxson bought her three-bedroom home for $206,000 in 2005. Her husband died in 2007 after a 10-year bout with multiple sclerosis. She was laid off in 2008 and went to school to retrain as a certified nursing assistant. She now works as a certified medication aid at a rehab center in Clackamas while still trying to sell homes.”
“Laxson estimates her household income is now one-third what it was when she bought her home. She said Wells Fargo has repeatedly denied her requests for loan modifications, a short sale and a deed in lieu of foreclosure. ‘Sometimes I try to hate my house,’ Laxson said. ‘I need to hate it because I might have to leave. But I can’t find very much I hate.’”
From KOMO News in Washington. “All Vera Johnson wants to know is why she can’t get a modification of her home loan. She owns Village Green Perennial Nursery. Johnson and her two children also live on the property, where she sells plants, containers, art. But she may lose it all. ‘So I’m $15,000 behind right now,’ she said.”
“‘I’m trying in good faith to keep my home that I’ve been living in for eight years, a business that I’ve been running for eight years,’ Johnson said. ‘This business has been here for 32 years. I’m not trying to say, ‘Give me a home for free.’ I’m saying, ‘Come on, work with me.’”
The Bellingham Herald in Washington. “Trillium Corp. has lost control of millions of dollars’ worth of Whatcom County real estate in the past year due to defaults on loans. In an emailed statement, Trillium VP Chris Benner blamed the loan defaults and resulting losses of property on the vagaries of the global economy.”
“Much of the land that Trillium no longer owns is in the Semiahmoo and Birch Point areas, including an undeveloped 231-acre tract near Birch Point as well as the Seagrass condominium properties and boat slip sites at the Semiahmoo marina. Dave Rodgers, manager of Wise Enterprises for Whatcom County, said Wise intends to sell the properties as quickly as possible. Rodgers acknowledged that Wise faced a substantial loss on the transaction, but he declined to say how much.”
“Real estate broker Mike Kent is the listing agent for Wise’s Semiahmoo holdings. Whatcom County real estate is attracting increasing interest from Canadian buyers, as well as some investors from mainland China, Kent said. ‘People are looking to invest in our relatively low real estate,’ Kent said. ‘There’s definitely a trend of Asian buyers looking at Whatcom County, no question.’”
The Vancouver Sun in Canada. “B.C. residents have high hopes of retiring debt-free, but for many, this reality show has an unhappy ending. While most B.C. residents believe they’ll be debt-free by age 58, fewer than one-third of B.C. residents aged 45 to 64 don’t owe any money, according to a Harris-Decima poll conducted for the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce.”
“Many homeowners who are mortgage-shopping still ask how much they can get instead of how much they can comfortably afford, pointed out Scott Hannah, CEO of B.C. Credit Counselling. ‘For a lot of people who put themselves into a tight spot, it makes it difficult to get ahead,’ he said .”
“It’s not only expensive real estate that has British Columbians cash-strapped. One in five B.C. residents who responded to an ING Direct survey said their biggest monthly expense — besides mortgage or rent payments — was loans and credit card payments, compared to 16 per cent nationally. Half of B.C. respondents reported that they could not afford to save $25 more per week.”
“It’s no secret that Vancouver has the highest cost of housing in Canada, so the release last week of Royal Bank of Canada’s affordability index only confirmed what we already know. It concluded that ownership costs for a standard bungalow in Vancouver amount to 92.5 per cent of median household income, prompting chief economist Craig Wright to say that owning a home in Vancouver ‘is a dream that only the area’s highest-earning households can contemplate.’”
“Not to take issue with such a renowned economist, but the dream is still realizable for median-income earners if buyers are willing to make compromises. The variety of properties available at different price points and flexibility in financing, including variable rate mortgages and extended amortization, along with a bit of luck, can help fulfil the dream of home ownership for agile buyers willing to keep their options open — even in Vancouver’s ‘unaffordable’ market.”
The Financial Post in Canada. “Two teachers in Alberta we’ll call Thomas and Georgia are in their mid-50s and face a disaster in their retirement plans caused by poor real estate investments that could eat up their retirement savings. If not fixed, the properties will leave them rich in real estate and poor in cash.”
“The problems begin with previous successes in real estate speculation. Figuring that property always goes up, they bought three rental condos for a total of $1.3-million at the peak of the Alberta property market and put $120,000 down on a property in Costa Rica. They supported this investment on $9,490 combined monthly take-home pay.”
“Two of the condos barely pay their way on a cash basis that does not even account for depreciation. A third property is a costly flop that costs them $931 a month more than its rental income. The $120,000 Latin American property, which was not completed, is in litigation and has been written off. Thomas and Georgia face the unpleasant task of cutting their losses to preserve their wealth.”
“‘When we retire, we would like to sell our home and downsize to something smaller on Vancouver Island,’ Thomas explains. The problem, of course, is the three cash-draining condos. ‘We would have liked to walk away from the deposits we had placed when the market turned, but the builders threatened legal action. So we went ahead with the purchases. Each is financed by a line of credit with a 25% down payment and secured by equity in our home.’”
“If Thomas and Georgia were to sell in today’s market, they would lose much of their equity, for prices are not as high as they were in 2007. They pay interest only on the lines of credit. As interest rates rise, they will have to add more cash and pay what amounts to higher subsidies. ‘On a good day, we are optimistic that things will work out well,’ Thomas says. ‘On a bad day, I feel that we are too exposed and must reduce risk.’”
“Many homeowners who are mortgage-shopping still ask how much they can get instead of how much they can comfortably afford, pointed out Scott Hannah, CEO of B.C. Credit Counselling. ‘For a lot of people who put themselves into a tight spot, it makes it difficult to get ahead,’ he said .”
“It’s not only expensive real estate that has British Columbians cash-strapped. One in five B.C. residents who responded to an ING Direct survey said their biggest monthly expense — besides mortgage or rent payments — was loans and credit card payments, compared to 16 per cent nationally. Half of B.C. respondents reported that they could not afford to save $25 more per week.”
No bubble here - keep moving - nothing to see…
“Howmuchamonth?” That’s all they want to know. It’s a frickin’ disease.
“It’s no secret that Vancouver has the highest cost of housing in Canada, so the release last week of Royal Bank of Canada’s affordability index only confirmed what we already know. It concluded that ownership costs for a standard bungalow in Vancouver amount to 92.5 per cent of median household income, prompting chief economist Craig Wright to say that owning a home in Vancouver ‘is a dream that only the area’s highest-earning households can contemplate.’”
No bubble here either. Keep moving…nothing to see.
I’m glad this blog continues to tell stories from Canada. We are still in full-on denial stage in this country, especially Vancouver. Here in Vancouver, whenever someone suggests perhaps real estate is due for a correction, they pull out another so-called “real estate expert” (usually someone who has a vested interest in the industry) who says something about the number of overseas Chinese coming to buy properties here for huge prices. Crappy houses in nice neighborhoods regularly sell for $2million, supposedly to the Chinese. And yet, as a financial professional, I can tell you that residents have been scrambling to keep up with these prices, taking out ever increasing loans to buy that “dream home” (usually some former grow-op) in a bad neighborhood, with a rental suite (or two) to help out with the mortgage. It’s unbelievable how many people I’ve run into who have $500k-$900k in mortgage debt and they’ve never made more than $50k per year in their entire working lives. And yes, before you ask, it all seems to have to do with our own CMHC (government) which has guaranteed these mortgages for the banks. The banks seem to be handing out these mortgages to anyone with a job (or even undeclared self-employment income). Though we jump up and down in Canada saying how safe our banks are (they’re the smart ones), it will all come back to haunt us the taxpayers one day.
But nobody believes me…they’d rather believe the story of the mythical Chinese investor. It’s just insane.
I’ve run into who have $500k-$900k in mortgage debt and they’ve never made more than $50k per year in their entire working lives
10-20x income for a house
It just never ends well…
“It’s unbelievable how many people I’ve run into who have $500k-$900k in mortgage debt and they’ve never made more than $50k per year in their entire working lives.”
How are they servicing that debt? There is absolutely no way on that low of an income.
Mostly by renting out basement suites (or more of the house). I know one guy who has a debt of $900k. He rents out 80% of the house! Lord knows why the bank gave him such a mortgage for what is essentially a rooming house.
The $500k-$900k is not always one house, sometimes it’s principal residence plus a condo or two, which they rent at a loss. They pay the difference with a line of credit.
Gulp.
Vancouver bubble is huuuge. Prizes are double and triple California comparable neighborhoods. It cannot last.
Any good way to short the market up there? Any REITs that are focused on VC, BC?
There are ETFs that focus on real estate, but I don’t know of any that target Vancouver or BC.
Yeah. If anybody finds a good way to short Vancouver real estate, I’m ALL IN.
GB,
I did some looking yesterday and can’t seem to find any VC focused REITs. I would suggest shorting the banks that focus there, but I’m not sure I understand how MTG exposure is handled in Canada (for example, do the banks offload it on the government like they do here).
Google CMHC.
“‘People can’t afford it and have lost their places,’ which Zaback said may be more of a reflection of the economy in other places than in Teton County.”
———————————————
Because in Teton County, nobody who actually lives in Teton County makes enough money to be able to even afford a first home. Therefore no-one has lost their home!
PS: They all live in bear caves.
That one cracked me up. And this guy is with the Federal Reserve?
It goes to show what the media/govt/public doesn’t understand about these people; they’re idiots. Look at what a fool Greenspan turned out to be, but the media still follows him around and prints every word that comes out of his mouth.
Alan Greenspan was exceptionally good at being invited to the right parties and schmoozing with important people. As an economist, he was mediocre at best.
Proving that rising to the top is no different in the Center of Power than it is in the small company office or social club.
Greenspan did more damage to America than Osama Bin Laden could ever dream of.
He should be tried for treason or treated ugly in Texas.
“The $120,000 Latin American property, which was not completed, is in litigation and has been written off”
I met a school teacher from Philadelphia when I was on one of my many trips to Guanacaste, Costa Rica and he described the “can’t miss” real estate deal he and his wife had gotten themselves into: They paid $199,000 for “partial ownership” of a villa in the woods next to the hotel where we usually stayed. I asked how he could justify spending so much money on partial ownership of a property so far away and on a teacher’s salary. He said that the rental income on the villa would more than cover his mortgage payment. I wonder how that turned out for him.
People obtained wealth without understanding that they were wealthy or even going through the pain of obtaining it.
And then they make ludicrous decisions and lose it all.
I bet they took out a mortgage to invest in that Latin American Property
I’ll step into the HBB confessional for a second and admit that on occasion I watch House Hunters Int’l if only to see what some cities look like that I haven’t been able to visit yet. Several of the shows depict an upper middle class couple, often recently retired, who are shopping for a place in Costa Rica, or some other Central American country, presumably as a 2nd residence/future grandkid trap.
Two things tend to come up in almost all of these shows. First, the happy couple ignore the bars on all the ground floor windows while they positively gush about the scenery. These are presumably fairly successful people, yet no one ever seems to notice or even asks why these bars are attached to the first floor windows. Someone from, oh say, Newark, NJ would be able to explain why in a heartbeat. Does anyone truly believe that the cops are going to arrive in 5 minutes if la Casa de los Gringos is being emptied of its contents?
Second, there seems to be a form of landholding there called “concession” which from what I gather means that one does not acquire clear title to the property, but rather a form of long term lease while the government retains the ultimate fee simple absolute. I don’t know whether this feature is common to the legal systems of Spain and its former colonies, but I’ve always thought that one’s claim to “ownership” could very quickly melt away in the event of la revolucion and the arrival of machine gun toting revolucionarios. Sure, Costa Rica has been one of the most stable CAm countries, but to pay all that money just to become a long term tenant at sufferance of the state seems, well, a little chancy.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to rent in a place like Costa Rica for a season or two to see if it suits you?
I wonder what it costs to rent one of those places down there.
Not very much. My family has done it several times. IIRC, it was on the order of 3-4K for a 1 month rental of ~2K sq/ft house near the beach.
That’s the thing that people just don’t seem to realize. Unless you’re going to spend 5 months+ in a vacation home there’s just no way that it’s going to pan out financially without massive appreciation.
My parents have a house in upstate NY that’s probably worth about 600-750K (they bought it 40 years ago for peanuts). If you bought the house today, you’re probably looking at 4-5K a month in carrying costs. The house rents for 5K a month in peak season. How in the Sam-he** does that make any sense for anybody but a full time resident (of which there are 0, it’s a total summer community)? If you bought 30 years ago, then fine. But where do they keep finding the folks dumb enough to buy those types of houses today?
Not to mention how much these people must pay in air fare to visit thier vacation home several times a year.
“presumably as a 2nd residence/future grandkid trap”
The grandkids would be much happier being taken on a vacation of their choosing every couple of years. As teens, they would prefer being allowed to stay home to host parties, etc. while the rest of the family went away and left them alone.
Two things tend to come up in almost all of these shows.
I often wonder how the people did who bought houses in Tunisia, Egypt, etc. and some Latin American counties close to revolution did…
I must correct you, in all candor and with respect. People have confused income with wealth. Wealth is your store of value, not your income. In fact, that’s the real financial profile of a person or business or other entity: Income, stored value (i.e. savings, or “wealth”), debt, and expenses. For businesses and other institutions, their liabilities are part of their debt factor.
So these people not only confused income with wealth, but they leveraged that misunderstanding into confusing debt with wealth. So they signed up for far too much debt, based on Lying Realtors and all the rest of the REIC. And I have no sympathy. Why would I sympathize? After all, foreclosure proceedings are easy to anticipate and are VERY well defined in the law. I often say that buying a house is one of the best defined financial transactions we have in our society; concomitant to that, so are foreclosures and defaults. The system is already well set to solve the problem… assuming governments show some backbone and let it.
Several years ago, a fellow graphic designer referred me to one of her friends/clients/I don’t really remember.
Any-hoo, this guy was selling Central American real estate to people visiting from the USA. Apparently, these folks would hit the shoreline after their cruise ship docked, fall in love with the place, then absolutely-positively have to buy.
I’ll never forget the guy exclaiming, “I’m selling a DREAM!”
He was on the phone in California. And here I was in Tucson, 500 miles away. And I could still smell the manure.
Long story short: We didn’t do business together. I think it had something to do with his not having the money to pay me for a website. And I do have this funny tendency to want to get paid with money, rather than dreams.
Two of the condos barely pay their way on a cash basis that does not even account for depreciation
Any accountants here that can explain why depreciation figures into this?
I’m not an accountant, but it sounds to me like the reporter was repeating statements without examining them to see if they made sense.
Depreciation is a non-cash expense. I’m not familiar enough with Canadian tax laws to comment with authority.
I agree with this, but if you are dealing with commercial property, not having enough income to “cover depreciation” could mean a lost opportunity to use a tax deduction. Don’t know if Canadian tax law is sufficiently similar to ours for it to be a concern.
I had a friend who bought a 3 unit place in Brooklyn. Her tax person told her that with the two upper units rented at $x per month, her carrying costs after tax would be $300. She said it was like getting the apartment she was going to occupy (plus the basement and backyard) for $300 a month rent. I did not point out that this only applied at her current income and, therefore, current marginal tax rate. If you make enough to have an income well over $100K without the rentals, the deductions are worth more than they are when you get laid off and try to make a go of it as a single practitioner- which is what happened. Cash flow matters too.
A reporter who was repeating statements without examining them to see if they made sense? Surely, you’re kidding!
Depreciation = replacing ruined carpets + broken appliances + leaking roof + crayon and paint ball stains + pet damage & etc.
Houses are “depreciating” assets. You have to push them uphill to keep them in the same place. It’s also called “upkeep”, as in “try to keep up”.
I was pretty well connected to people in RE in Whatcom County, and even in mid-2008 some of the Semiahmoo behemoths were selling at deep dicounts. The vast majority were second homes, and it was a ghost town seven months out of the year.
Even though Bellingham has some of the least affordable real estate in the state (I paid around $250sqft), the prices pale compared to Lower Mainland BC.
My heart goes out to these people, even though some of these investments were questionable (I remember that Costa Rica rainforest property phase from the 90’s). Here’s hoping they recover the equity and enjoy a happy retirement.
Thanks for the Wyoming snippet. There are a couple of small pockets that have some oil jobs, but most of the state is where the jobs aren’t. And as of a few months ago anyway we’d reached the point where a house up there was MORE expensive than in Colorado within commuting distance of where the jobs *are*. Seems to me they have to come down. At least the state finances are in good shape last I heard thanks to oil/gas/coal.
As I mentioned to the Calgary magazine Swerve back in 2007, Texas had plenty of oil and gas jobs/gazillionaires in the 70s-80s, and that bubble completely collapsed.
“Mayo says that because unemployment rates in Montana are still fairly high, it causes the prices of homes to stay lower and more affordable.”
High unemployment rates are bad, but affordable housing prices are good — ’tis a conundrum.
“The development, which includes a 142-slip marina and dozens of condos, is still largely unfinished. The troubled development is the latest in a string of ambitious North Idaho projects that were foiled when the economy collapsed in the fall of 2008.”
‘…42-slip marina … North Idaho…’
Say no more.
“Real estate broker Mike Kent is the listing agent for Wise’s Semiahmoo holdings. Whatcom County real estate is attracting increasing interest from Canadian buyers, as well as some investors from mainland China, Kent said. ‘People are looking to invest in our relatively low real estate,’ Kent said. ‘There’s definitely a trend of Asian buyers looking at Whatcom County, no question.’”
Makes me doubt the U.S. housing bubble will be able to fully deflate before the Canada and China bubbles finally pop…
“Many homeowners who are mortgage-shopping still ask how much they can get instead of how much they can comfortably afford, pointed out Scott Hannah, CEO of B.C. Credit Counselling. ‘For a lot of people who put themselves into a tight spot, it makes it difficult to get ahead,’ he said .”
“It’s not only expensive real estate that has British Columbians cash-strapped. One in five B.C. residents who responded to an ING Direct survey said their biggest monthly expense — besides mortgage or rent payments — was loans and credit card payments, compared to 16 per cent nationally. Half of B.C. respondents reported that they could not afford to save $25 more per week.”
Whatever it takes to join the Vancouver version of the Ownership Society…
“It concluded that ownership costs for a standard bungalow in Vancouver amount to 92.5 per cent of median household income, prompting chief economist Craig Wright to say that owning a home in Vancouver ‘is a dream that only the area’s highest-earning households can contemplate.’”
“Not to take issue with such a renowned economist, but the dream is still realizable for median-income earners if buyers are willing to make compromises. The variety of properties available at different price points and flexibility in financing, including variable rate mortgages and extended amortization, along with a bit of luck, can help fulfil the dream of home ownership for agile buyers willing to keep their options open — even in Vancouver’s ‘unaffordable’ market.”
You would think the journalists who write this claptrap would bother to take a look every so often at an American newspaper, in order to see how badly this is likely to end for them.
I truly believe that after the corporate consolidation of the 1990s, it’s nearly impossible to get a journalist to understand anything that his corporate masters oppose. This is the ultimate application of that Upton Sinclair quote about a man’s understanding and his salary. Journalists have now been winnowed out of the profession almost entirely. What’s left over is a vast population of propaganda typists.
“What’s left over is a vast population of propaganda typists.”
Plus a shadowy nether world of bloggers with a passion for getting out the real story…
I have a co-worker who had to bring money to the closing table when he left Casper, WY following the energy bust of the mid-eighties. Said it cost him twelve years of gains when all the expenses (home equity, job loss, moving cost, etc.) were accounted for, and they were a two income family back then. Older and much wiser now.
Got the ‘HBB Joshua Tree Extension v1.5.3′ installed and running — thanks drummnj! I take back any politically offensive invective that I may have seemed to be sending your way as of late…